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Nemas Ravenor
07-06-2010, 04:08 PM
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: small;">Since we have been told that the focus of the development team for the remainder of 2010 is going to be the next PVE expansion of the game, I think the most important thing we can do on this forum is to make suggestions for what kinds of changes to <strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">PVE</span></strong> we would like to see that would lead to fixes in the PVP aspect of the game - <span style="text-decoration: underline;">without Sony having to actually do anything specific to PVP.</span></span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: small;"> </span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman;">Things like changing the fame system and reverting back to body drops are okay, but feel to me like cosmetic changes to PVP that, if we keep harping on, the developers might do and say that they addressed our concerns.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>And yet nothing will fundamentally change within the game.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>You will still see the zerg, only instead of writ updates there will just be chests to click on the ground.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>Ultimately, we will be left with the same result:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>large amounts of players looking for easy updates.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span></span></span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: small;"> </span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman;">So those changes feel as if they are only half of the solution, while also not falling in line with what the developers have told us they plan to spend their time addressing.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span></span></span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: small;"> </span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: small;">One of the most important themes we find on these forums is that the PVE aspect of the game is no longer interesting or rewarding to the vast majority of players anymore either - on both Blue and Red servers.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>And I think it important to let the Devs know that as PVPers we also play the PVE part of the game and our concerns for the enjoyment of those Blue elements of EQ2 will help the overall PVE part of the game while still enhancing what we want out of PVP.</span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: small;"> </span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: small;">So let’s use this post to make <strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">PVE</span></strong> <strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">suggestions</span></strong> that we think would help contribute to more and better PVP across the open world since that seems like the most direct way for the nice folks at Sony to fix PVP.</span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: small;"> </span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman;">Here are my thoughts for PVE elements I would like to see in the next expansion that will make the game as a whole much more enjoyable to play, even on Blue servers. that would also help PVP enjoyment.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span></span></span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: small;"> </span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: small;">But, Sony, the key to all of this is to make these things hard to achieve.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>It should take us weeks or months to do most of these things; not an afternoon.</span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: small;"> </span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: small;">This is by no means a complete list, so to the community at large please add more of your own PVE ideas to these:</span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: small;"> </span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman;"><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">1.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>Fewer Instances and more Open Dungeons that are harder to complete</span></strong> – The T9 instances are incredibly easy and do not offer rewards that are very worthwhile.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>My guild was able to begin easily clearing the beginning T9 raid instances while we were still in full Level 80 TSO raid gear.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>That shouldn’t happen.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>You walk into a T9 raid instance with level 80 gear and you should be one-shotted.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>So, if the next Expansion will bring us to level 100, make the raid zones harrd enough that you need full sets of level 100 Legendary, or better, gear to even step into the zones.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span></span></span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: small;"> </span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: small;">Then make that level 100 Legendary/Fabled gear obtainable in OPEN DUNGEONS and take your cue from the EOF class sets where the pieces were obtainable by killing contested mobs in open dungeons.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>This will create more interest in the content of the game on a PVE level where earning your gear will result in being better able to complete end game content.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>And on a PVP level we be able to find PVP out in the open world yet again because we'll all want these pieces.</span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"> </p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: small;">2.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>PVE Gear – Please make PVE gear work in PVP so that these pieces we are working so hard to achieve are useful for both end game content and against other players.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>If you<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>send us out into the world to obtain gear that we must have in order to tackle raid (or really hard instanced) content, and we can use that gear in PVP, then you have achieved something to make both Blue and Red servers happy.</span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: small;"> </span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: small;">3.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>Heritage Quests – This is along the same theme, but if there were more HQs whose rewards were worthwhile for being able to kill hard <span style="text-decoration: underline;">PVE</span> mobs, and it could also be used against other players, then Blues and Reds would be happy.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">   </span>I think the original game had something like 20 or more HQs, and that Granite Tomahawk was awesome in both PVE and PVP.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>Give us another 20 HQs that take place all over the new content, and in contested zones, with rewards needed to kill End Game content that are also usable in PVP.</span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: small;"> </span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman;">4.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>Transportation – I understand that the guild flags and Call of the Veteran are major time savers, and trust me, there has been at least a 100 times where I was so happy I had them because it could have taken me 20 min if I had to wait for boats and then run across multiple zones just to join a group.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>But at the same time, this is one of the major factors that limit access to other players in PVP.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span></span></span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: small;"> </span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: small;">Now, we all like the complicated aspects of this game – and we want to EARN things -- so since we are talking about the expansion here, and T10, where all the rules can be changed… how about making individuals, and guilds, have to <span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong>earn the right to put their Guild Rally Banners in certain areas</strong></span> of the new expansion before they can be used there.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>We all love faction and status grinds right?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>So if guilds need to reach Guild Level 100 with a certain amount of specific points with a new faction in the expansion before they can use their flags in those zones it will give both Bluebies and PVP guilds something to work towards together.</span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: small;"> </span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: small;">And before you can use your Call of the Veteran in any place in the new expansion you should only be level 100 and have maxed out your own personal status with each particular faction in that zone before it will work.</span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: small;"> </span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: small;">Again – give us things to achieve in this game and we will love it even more.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>Bluebies will think these are important in game tasks to undertake and PVPers will love it because we’ll be out there trying to complete them and we’ll find open world PVP.</span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: small;"> </span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: small;">5.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>New Myths – Maybe the plan is to put a new mythical quest into the game for T9 soon, in Kunark it didn’t arrive until about 4-5 months into ROK, but even so…. for T10 we need another massive Epic and then Mythical quest that takes place all across Norath.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>We loved doing those quests and both Blue and Red servers will tackle them for obvious reasons.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>But for PVPers it is yet another thing that will get us all off our butts, out of the zerg, and doing something worthwhile in the game again.</span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: small;"> </span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: small;">6.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>PVP Gear – I know this isn’t a PVE issue, but if we didn’t have PVP gear in T10, then we would HAVE to play the entire game!<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>We’d be playing PVE because we’d need to go get gear in order to be successful at PVP!<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>So let’s think about taking it out entirely and make Battleground Gear only work in the Battlegrounds.  More than anything else, this will get rid of the zerg.</span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: small;"> </span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: small;">For now, this is all that I have.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>But I think if we can keep making really solid <strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">PVE Blue Server game play and content suggestions for the Devs</span></strong> that we think would help us to enjoy PVP the way we want it we should have a win/win situation.</span></p>

Nemas Ravenor
07-06-2010, 04:23 PM
<p><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Farming</span></strong>  - Let some of the nameds in open dungeons be affected by control effects so that coercers, illys and even the good wizard or warlock with patience be able to root and nuke them.  Make them hard enough to get to that it is a challenge just to get there, and then make the mobs REALLY hard to kill, just not impossible.  This will promote more people playing the PVE game, and it will provide targets for others in the zone to kill. </p>

Heleptra
07-06-2010, 04:57 PM
<p>Thank you for this greeat post m8<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Iv been thinkin a long time alredy about alot of what you said.</p><p>Eq2 has become so easy and carebare, And farming nameds,hard dungeons,epics dosent give any rewards, Example:t2-t6 gear? What the hell! That gear is so crap that nobody even have em, Because you get full pvp set in 2 days,</p><p>I miss the good old days when u fought for your items, i loved to farm nameds to get that special piece of gear, And i was so mad when i got killed by a other faction, But stil all worth it because it gave u a good thrill. Please bring more contested mobs,Open dungeons,take away the easy teleport system to every where in norrath,take away guild flags,Boost up all fabled items in game, Make all the MOBS alot harder from t1-t7 because the gear is just so ridiclous ower powered against all the mobs atm.</p><p>I fell in love with EQ2 Because it was challenging,Hard,Took alot of learning to become good,Needed alot of team work.</p><p>Thinkin about eq2 now days makes me want to puke.And i also get my heart broken knowing this game is more like Wow,(children game)</p><p>Hartsia. Wizard</p><p> a long time veteran on nagafen.</p>

Bosconi
07-07-2010, 05:12 AM
<p><span style="color: #ff6600;">They're liiiike 100% guaranteed to not raise the level cap to 100.</span></p>

max.power
07-07-2010, 11:48 AM
<p>What SOE could do right now is to disable the guild banner on PvP servers. I don't think that it's hard to code.</p><p>I'm pretty sure that that would annoy some people (me from time to time, too) but it really would help the PvP aspect of the game. With the new travel system we have enough opportunities to go from A to B real quick.</p>

Neskonlith
07-07-2010, 12:23 PM
<p><span style="color: #ff0000;">It seems awfully silly to demand SOE disable content and still pay the same subscription for receiving less, but I guess that is "hardcore".  No thanks, I'm not going to accept that lame band-aid solution that ignores the underlying problem.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Generally, if there is a perceived lack of PVP then it is likely because the current PVP system sucks, and significant numbers of players can't be bothered and will refuse to play along with it.  "Forcing" those others to participate in a system that blows chunks is not going to win the hearts and participation of players, it merely ticks more people off and likely increases cancellations.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">The best way to increase open-PVP is by improving it in such a manner that more people<em> willingly choose to participate</em>.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">With all that being said, Warfails have demonstrated that SOE servers cannot accommodate moderate amounts of open-pvp without massive <em><strong>unfun</strong></em> lag.</span></p>

Nemas Ravenor
07-07-2010, 02:48 PM
<p><cite>Bosconi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">They're liiiike 100% guaranteed to not raise the level cap to 100.</span></p></blockquote><p>Whether or not they raise the level cap to 100 is actually immaterial because they must be working on new conten for the expansiont.  And it is the way that new content is put together that will have the greatest effect on PVP, which is what this thread is about.  We know Sony is only focusing on the PVE parts of the game, so if we can make suggestions for ways we want to play PVE that will also help foster the kinds of PVP we like that seems to be the best possible path we have towards getting them to pay attention to what we want.</p>

Nemas Ravenor
07-07-2010, 02:54 PM
<p><cite>Neskonlith wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">It seems awfully silly to demand SOE disable content and still pay the same subscription for receiving less, but I guess that is "hardcore".  No thanks, I'm not going to accept that lame band-aid solution that ignores the underlying problem.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Generally, if there is a perceived lack of PVP then it is likely because the current PVP system sucks, and significant numbers of players can't be bothered and will refuse to play along with it.  "Forcing" those others to participate in a system that blows chunks is not going to win the hearts and participation of players, it merely ticks more people off and likely increases cancellations.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">The best way to increase open-PVP is by improving it in such a manner that more people<em> willingly choose to participate</em>.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">With all that being said, Warfails have demonstrated that SOE servers cannot accommodate moderate amounts of open-pvp without massive <em><strong>unfun</strong></em> lag.</span></p></blockquote><p>You're right to a certain extent in that it isn't the lack of pvp that is the problem, it is the kind of pvp we have that people hate.  It is the zerging for tokens to get free gear that has ruined the PVP experience. </p><p>And your statement that "the best way to increase open PVP is by improving it in such a manner that more people willingly choose to participate" is exactly what this thread is trying to address.  We play this game to enjoy both the PVE elements as well as the PVP parts of it.  But no one really wants to just sit in one zone and hammer on people.  Even without any lag that isn't enjoyable and might you might as well go play Call of Duty.</p><p>Sony can help PVP by creating open world PVE content in the next expansion as outlined above, and by taking PVP gear out of the game so that there is no reason to zerg.  We would then have an incredibly rich PVE world to play in where PVP is a major element to it.</p><p>And we can help the devs see what kind of content we want in the PVE game that will help make the best possible experience for both Blue and Red servers.</p>

Oobo
07-07-2010, 06:38 PM
<p>ok normally i dont post here but tbh i am sooo sick of the screaming of REMOVE PVP GEAR.. yes  with the zerging it is boring some days but then some days its alot of fun to just hammer on each other, either way you now have two types of pvp you can do BGs and WFs/Pvp but the ONLY ONLY reason you people are screaming for removal of pvp gear is so the advantage goes BACK to the raiders who spend  hours in this game raiding and then hardly pvp...</p><p> pvp gear on a pvp server should be the best gear to get, THAT will encourage people to pvp not this WFs crap...but no one and i mean NO one was screaming remove pvp gear back when it took weeks to get and YES back when the gear 1st got added it took a long time to get way longer than raiding and i know that for a fact cause i geared one of my 80s in T4 raid set gear before he had 3 peices of pvp gear when the 300-450 token per gear and the DUMB class specific crap writs so get over your PVE ranting  about remove pvp gear..pvp gear and the attaining of it IS NOT THE PROBLEM with pvp its the jacked up bandaid fixes SOE throws at it..</p>

Nemas Ravenor
07-07-2010, 06:54 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>ok normally i dont post here but tbh i am sooo sick of the screaming of REMOVE PVP GEAR.. yes  with the zerging it is boring some days but then some days its alot of fun to just hammer on each other, either way you now have two types of pvp you can do BGs and WFs/Pvp but the ONLY ONLY reason you people are screaming for removal of pvp gear is so the advantage goes BACK to the raiders who spend  hours in this game raiding and then hardly pvp...</p><p> pvp gear on a pvp server should be the best gear to get, THAT will encourage people to pvp not this WFs crap...but no one and i mean NO one was screaming remove pvp gear back when it took weeks to get and YES back when the gear 1st got added it took a long time to get way longer than raiding and i know that for a fact cause i geared one of my 80s in T4 raid set gear before he had 3 peices of pvp gear when the 300-450 token per gear and the DUMB class specific crap writs so get over your PVE ranting  about remove pvp gear..pvp gear and the attaining of it IS NOT THE PROBLEM with pvp its the jacked up bandaid fixes SOE throws at it..</p></blockquote><p>PVP gear itself isn't the problem.  It's the mentality of the player base that realizes all they have to do is ban g on each other for days at a time and they will get all the gear they want.  As long as PVP Gear is in the game it doesn't matter how many tokens you need to get a full set, people will just grind against each other until they achieve their goals.  If it takes a month of the zerg to get one piece then that's all people will do.</p><p>The game itself is dying from utter simplicity across the board in both the PVE and PVP points of view.  Forget about Battleground gear for a second.  Imagine if you were on a Blue Server and were camping a mob then a group of players came up and stole it right out from under you.  Wouldn't you want to be able to kill them?</p><p>That's was an element of PVP in the beginning:  the desire to kill people who [Removed for Content] you off in game.</p><p>And Oobo, I know you like the PVE aspects of the game.  You used to FD through every zone you could find to farm shinies and masters for plats to get gear and spells for your toons.  The game was challenging once upon a time and obtaining things to make yourself better in PVE and PVP made it worthwhile. </p><p>And making things you achieve in this game mean something again is what so many people have been clamoring for and I know I am repeating myself, but since the Devs told us they arent planning on making changes to PVP isn't it in our best interests to give them <strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">PVE</span></strong> suggestions that we think could help us enjoy PVP more?</p>

max.power
07-08-2010, 10:03 AM
<p><cite>Neskonlith wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">It seems awfully silly to demand SOE disable content and still pay the same subscription for receiving less, but I guess that is "hardcore".  No thanks, I'm not going to accept that lame band-aid solution that ignores the underlying problem.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Generally, if there is a perceived lack of PVP then it is likely because the current PVP system sucks, and significant numbers of players can't be bothered and will refuse to play along with it.  "Forcing" those others to participate in a system that blows chunks is not going to win the hearts and participation of players, it merely ticks more people off and likely increases cancellations.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">The best way to increase open-PVP is by improving it in such a manner that more people<em> willingly choose to participate</em>.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">With all that being said, Warfails have demonstrated that SOE servers cannot accommodate moderate amounts of open-pvp without massive <em><strong>unfun</strong></em> lag.</span></p></blockquote><p>Nes, I'm basicly with you but removing the guild banner would be anything but "hardcore".</p><p>(BTW I don't think that you are missing the mailboxes at the griffon stations in Commonlands or Antonica much. Just an example of (small, but nontheless) content that was removed - and you are still paying the same subscription! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" /><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" />)</p><p>The guild banner wasn't in the game from the beginning, it was added more or less recently. Removing it wouldn't mean to "force" anything on people, most of us have played under PvP rules without it anyways. The thing is: Open world PvP lives from people being out in the open, be it quests, contested mobs or simply players moving from A to B.</p><p>Guild banners remove the "moving from A to B" part of open world PvP by a very large amount and nearly negates the possibility of area control.</p><p>One more thing regarding "forcing" people: I'm not talking about removing immunities from revive points or hubs like Moonfield, Paineel etc. - they are needed so questers and crafters can do their thing - to some extend - without interruption and without being forced to PvP, nor do I want that crafters get ported right into enemy territory if they are crafting more than 30 minutes non stop (although I think that some of our leet hardcore PvPrs would like to have exactly that <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" />). But the moment you create a character on a PvP server, you know that moving around in an hostile environment (quests, mobs, traveling from A to B) is part of the gameplay and that PvP doesn't always happen when you want and when you are prepared for it. An environment where you can always choose when and where to PvP already exists and is called: PvE server + battlegrounds. We don't want to be like that, don't we? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/0320a00cb4bb5629ab9fc2bc1fcc4e9e.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Again and to make it clear, I know that there are many different people on the PvP servers and that not everyone likes to PvP the whole time. Different people, different playstyles and I want those playstyles to coexist as best as possible because it offers variety which is a good thing, it keeps the whole game interesting.</p><p>With that being said: I really think that we would have a more interesting open world PvP without guild banners. It wouldn't be the saviour of PvP but it would help a lot.</p>

Pinino-Lfg
07-08-2010, 02:59 PM
<p>best expansion ever released was Velius in EQ1 , no lvls no aa, just pure content, and difficult content, content that wasnt ever killed untill the end of the next expansion.... thats what eq2 needs an expansion with nothing but pure content to make up for all the lost content youve gotten rid of due to lvl increases</p>

Nemas Ravenor
07-08-2010, 05:01 PM
<p><cite>Pinino-Lfg wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>best expansion ever released was Velius in EQ1 , no lvls no aa, just pure content, and difficult content, content that wasnt ever killed untill the end of the next expansion.... thats what eq2 needs an expansion with nothing but pure content to make up for all the lost content youve gotten rid of due to lvl increases</p></blockquote><p>That's a GREAT idea.  Pure HARD content.</p>