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Edavi
06-29-2010, 10:28 PM
<div><span ><a href="../user/profile.m?user_id=207565"><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">SmokeJumper</span></strong></a></span> <img src="../images/icons/soe.gif" border="0" /></div><p> <span > Sr. Producer <img src="../images/avatar/EQ2/staff/avatar_developer.png" border="0" /> Joined: Aug 8, 2005 Messages: 70 <span >Offline </span> </span></p> <p><span ><p>First bit of honesty : PvP is not our focus at the moment. Between the new user improvements and the expansion later this year, the majority of our focus is elsewhere.</p><p>Second bit of honesty : We know there are inadequacies. (Polite phrasing.) We *will* be looking into it and making changes. But there is no ETA for those changes yet.</p><p>Personal note: I've made a lot of PvP games in my game history. I'm looking forward to digging in with the team and talking through stuff. Just not quite yet.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Man... thats rough... but i guess he finally said what everyones been thinking/assuming...</span></p></span></p>

Taldier
06-29-2010, 10:54 PM
<p>Three cheers for SmokeJumper for saying both the first and second honest statements ever made by a dev on the pvp forums! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" /></p>

Cloakentuna
06-29-2010, 11:03 PM
<p>Honestly not suprised, glad they at least finally admitted it I suppose, though it does nothing because he's basically saying were f'd until the new expansion is out and has its bugs fixed which could be another 9 months to a year.</p>

Putyo
06-29-2010, 11:07 PM
<p>It was a great idea to release battlegrounds and then compeletly shun them until the next expac.....at least</p><p>Cheerio!</p>

Agent2k
06-29-2010, 11:12 PM
<p>Harsh.  But maybe it's just time to move on.  Fun memories...</p>

Erriondrivan
06-29-2010, 11:21 PM
<p>You should let those of us who want off the PVP server, transfer...</p>

Waking
06-29-2010, 11:25 PM
<p>Transferring out of pvp wouldn't be game changing, but it would be more practical to level on a blue server, since it's no longer difficult at all to level in eq2.</p>

Erriondrivan
06-29-2010, 11:38 PM
<p><cite>Waking wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Transferring out of pvp wouldn't be game changing, but it would be more practical to level on a blue server, since it's no longer difficult at all to level in eq2.</p></blockquote><p>It's not the leveling, it's the wasteland population of T9 on naggy.</p>

BlueEternal
06-30-2010, 01:18 AM
<p>R.I.P EQ2 PVP, Good luck with your "new user experience". You will surely need it when you run off the remaining players this dying server and to a extent game has. It was a good post by Bryony explaining our feelings, accomplished nothing as expected.</p>

Edavi
06-30-2010, 01:23 AM
<p>Sigh, Whens eq3 coming out?</p>

BlueEternal
06-30-2010, 01:26 AM
<p><cite>Edavi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Sigh, Whens Rifts: Planes of Telara coming out?</p></blockquote><p>Fixed. SOE ftl</p>

Edavi
06-30-2010, 01:28 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Three cheers for SmokeJumper for saying both the first and second honest statements ever made by a dev on the pvp forums! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Haha this is pretty good, but this whole bit is pretty sad, I heard a We know its [Removed for Content]... But, we dont have the time to fix it.  We have always asumed we were their last priority... but it hurts to hear it <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Cloakentuna
06-30-2010, 01:29 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Edavi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Sigh, Whens Rifts: Planes of Telara coming out?</p></blockquote><p>Fixed. SOE ftl</p></blockquote><p>Pretty much sadly.</p><p>2nd SoE game I've played thats gone to crap.</p>

jdez
06-30-2010, 01:50 AM
<p>If you ask me the BG's are a bunch of crap. I think the game needs to focus on what it really wants such as players to have fun, level etc. The BG's is just a big f fest of 90's mentoring with 30's and when someone engages a 30 and they dont see the mentored 90 the 90 unmentors and kills the whole group. (pathetic) not to mention the out of group speed hacks as well as the buff hacks everyone is using. I think it should be a time for lvl 30's only!!!! no 90's or little grey leachers. Let's face it im sure a pvp pro is going to have something to say about this like the typical ( hi i'm a pvp master and i know everything there is to know about the BG's) i get tired of the smart [Removed for Content] that think they know everything just because they have a lvl 90 doesnt make them any better than anyone else.</p>

BlueEternal
06-30-2010, 02:04 AM
<p><cite>jdez wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If you ask me the BG's are a bunch of crap. I think the game needs to focus on what it really wants such as players to have fun, level etc. The BG's is just a big f fest of 90's mentoring with 30's and when someone engages a 30 and they dont see the mentored 90 the 90 unmentors and kills the whole group. (pathetic) not to mention the out of group speed hacks as well as the buff hacks everyone is using. I think it should be a time for lvl 30's only!!!! no 90's or little grey leachers. Let's face it im sure a pvp pro is going to have something to say about this like the typical ( hi i'm a pvp master and i know everything there is to know about the BG's) i get tired of the smart [Removed for Content] that think they know everything just because they have a lvl 90 doesnt make them any better than anyone else.</p></blockquote><p>Congratulations, this post has nothing to do with this thread at all.</p>

Edgaard
06-30-2010, 02:04 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Edavi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Sigh, Whens Rifts: Planes of Telara coming out?</p></blockquote><p>Fixed. SOE ftl</p></blockquote><p>When is this game comming out? </p><p>We should def roll on there naroc <3</p>

Ralpmet
06-30-2010, 02:38 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>jdez wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If you ask me the BG's are a bunch of crap. I think the game needs to focus on what it really wants such as players to have fun, level etc. The BG's is just a big f fest of 90's mentoring with 30's and when someone engages a 30 and they dont see the mentored 90 the 90 unmentors and kills the whole group. (pathetic) not to mention the out of group speed hacks as well as the buff hacks everyone is using. I think it should be a time for lvl 30's only!!!! no 90's or little grey leachers. Let's face it im sure a pvp pro is going to have something to say about this like the typical ( hi i'm a pvp master and i know everything there is to know about the BG's) i get tired of the smart [Removed for Content] that think they know everything just because they have a lvl 90 doesnt make them any better than anyone else.</p></blockquote><p>Congratulations, this post has nothing to do with this thread at all.</p></blockquote><p>Not to mention it makes absolutely no sense at all.</p>

BlueEternal
06-30-2010, 02:43 AM
<p><cite>Ralpmet wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>jdez wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If you ask me the BG's are a bunch of crap. I think the game needs to focus on what it really wants such as players to have fun, level etc. The BG's is just a big f fest of 90's mentoring with 30's and when someone engages a 30 and they dont see the mentored 90 the 90 unmentors and kills the whole group. (pathetic) not to mention the out of group speed hacks as well as the buff hacks everyone is using. I think it should be a time for lvl 30's only!!!! no 90's or little grey leachers. Let's face it im sure a pvp pro is going to have something to say about this like the typical ( hi i'm a pvp master and i know everything there is to know about the BG's) i get tired of the smart [Removed for Content] that think they know everything just because they have a lvl 90 doesnt make them any better than anyone else.</p></blockquote><p>Congratulations, this post has nothing to do with this thread at all.</p></blockquote><p>Not to mention it makes absolutely no sense at all.</p></blockquote><p>That was expected, due to this guys post history. Anyways..back on topic. Bye bye Pvp!</p>

Dorsan
06-30-2010, 03:01 AM
<p><cite>jdez wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If you ask me the BG's are a bunch of crap. I think the game needs to focus on what it really wants such as players to have fun, level etc. The BG's is just a big f fest of 90's mentoring with 30's and when someone engages a 30 and they dont see the mentored 90 the 90 unmentors and kills the whole group. (pathetic) not to mention the out of group speed hacks as well as the buff hacks everyone is using. I think it should be a time for lvl 30's only!!!! no 90's or little grey leachers. Let's face it im sure a pvp pro is going to have something to say about this like the typical ( hi i'm a pvp master and i know everything there is to know about the BG's) i get tired of the smart [Removed for Content] that think they know everything just because they have a lvl 90 doesnt make them any better than anyone else.</p></blockquote><p>I am showing a great deal of restraint by not writing what I think here.</p>

Amnerys
06-30-2010, 04:36 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I am showing a great deal of restraint by not writing what I think here.</p></blockquote><p>If it's inappropriate or non-constructive, then your restraint is appreciated. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Also wanted to say that I appreciate the majority of responses you've made so far. You are certainly welcome to post both your positive and negative feedback on our forums, and the manner in which you've posted thusfar in this thread has mostly been calm, honest and rational (if a little snarky, hehe). PVP sometimes gets a bad rap, but this is the way to crush old perceptions.</p><p>Thanks folks!</p>

Guld_Ulrish
06-30-2010, 05:07 AM
<p>Time to quit then.</p>

Powers
06-30-2010, 09:57 AM
<p>I honestly don't understand why players would be so devoted to PvP in a game that was never designed to have PvP.  I understand that some players like PvP, but why play EQ2, then?</p><p>Powers  &8^]</p>

MaCloud1032
06-30-2010, 10:52 AM
Because many of us like/loved that we got the ability to do some kick butt pve stuff when we didn't wanna pvp. The pvp system use to be amazing even with all its early flaws. Simply put the pvp system we have now isn't the system we once had. If this is truly the case and pvp development is on the back burner please open transfers on and off. Please allow the whole works guilds/players/alliances

Shiirr
06-30-2010, 11:02 AM
<p>Because, Powers, PvP used to be a blast.  It suffered the death of a thousand cuts.  Transfers off PvP incoming, I think, with more focus on BG's later on.  Or vise-versa. </p>

Edavi
06-30-2010, 11:43 AM
<p>Meh, I cant think of many reasons to transfer off of PVP... considering MOST of the time you have to go out of your way to PVP anyway...  The whole game is in instances with the exception of the quest grind to get to 90...  I guess Nagafen as a server is pretty bad, with the lag and all.. and we can only talk to half the server for making groups and such...</p><p>But then again I feel you with.. whats the point of being here... [Removed for Content], I still cant believe they said that.. I believe its true, but i cant believe they said it!</p>

Wytie
06-30-2010, 11:57 AM
<p>Meh everyone already knew this, its no suprize, doesnt really change a thing imo, other than liking SmokeJ a bit more for shooting us fairly straight.</p>

zyllith
06-30-2010, 12:20 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Meh everyone already knew this, its no suprize, doesnt really change a thing imo, other than liking SmokeJ a bit more for shooting us fairly straight.</p></blockquote><p>Yep, and again kudo's to Olihin a few weeks ago, Rothgar a week ago and Smokejumper yesterday for popping in -- let's us know that we're being read, if for the entertainment than nothing else ...</p><p>I would expect that the next expansion will likely have some of our lag and mechanic fixes; that's about the right timeframe, and if they are working on the branch then that's where the fixes will be -- we can wait until Test gets the new bits and see what's working then ...</p><p>Until then, I guess people will /ragemode [quit], /whinemode [quit] or improvise, adapt and overcome ...</p>

max.power
06-30-2010, 12:52 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Meh everyone already knew this, its no suprize, doesnt really change a thing imo, other than liking SmokeJ a bit more for shooting us fairly straight.</p></blockquote><p>True. Just compare the numbers of PvE servers with the numbers of PvP servers and a ten year old will understand right from the beginning where the focus is in EQ2.</p><p>Just because PvP hasn't the highest priority for SOE does not mean that we don't get any changes/improvements anymore.</p>

Olihin
06-30-2010, 02:03 PM
<p>Greetings,</p><p>As Smokejumper stated, we have many other priorities to consider at this time.  This does not mean that I am not making sure we continue to research and consider further enhancements to our PvP server, but I am tasked with more then just PvP issues and those are taking priority.   When time allows, I will continue to champion some of the requests and concerns brought up.  In the meantime, we are not making for any huge changes to PvP at this time.</p><p>Please continue to submit your feedback and suggestions for enhancements.  If in doubt, you can always just PM me and inquire on the issue rather then make a new post.   I know that some of the in game discussions are always helpful to those that do not read the forums, so I will continue to spend my free time in there when possible. </p><p>Thank you all and happy hunting!</p><p><span style="font-size: large; color: #3366ff;">Olihin</span></p>

zyllith
06-30-2010, 02:17 PM
<p><cite>Olihin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Greetings,</p><p>As Smokejumper stated, we have many other priorities to consider at this time.  This does not mean that I am not making sure we continue to research and consider further enhancements to our PvP server, but I am tasked with more then just PvP issues and those are taking priority.   When time allows, I will continue to champion some of the requests and concerns brought up.  In the meantime, we are not making for any huge changes to PvP at this time.</p><p>Please continue to submit your feedback and suggestions for enhancements.  If in doubt, you can always just PM me and inquire on the issue rather then make a new post.   I know that some of the in game discussions are always helpful to those that do not read the forums, so I will continue to spend my free time in there when possible. </p><p>Thank you all and happy hunting!</p><p><span style="font-size: large; color: #3366ff;">Olihin</span></p></blockquote><p>Understood, and thanks once again for all of your, Rothgar's and Smokejumper's efforts -- you have a number of fires to work on, and it's hard to drain the swamp while you're being attacked by alligators.</p><p>In the meantime, what (I) would ask for y'all is:</p><p>- Spend some time every so often and watch a WF unfold from the client side; get a toon, make him dead, sit at a spot where you can watch the toons interact and see what is working and what isn't.  Do this a few times a week during heavy times and quiet times.  Make a FRAPs of the session so you can compare different dates, times and servers ... this might show you things you didn't expect to happen</p><p>- Go to a lag-heavy location (center of a WF tower when it's being attacked, say) and do a FRAPs of about 5 min there and the same on Vox -- compare the two videos and check the server side logs to see where server cycles are being spent.  You've got a few months before the next expansion, really getting a handle on the lag will have payoffs not only for the PvP but PvE servers</p><p>- Every so often float a "trial balloon" of a potential PvP change on the forums; this lets people know you're alive, and gives the community a chance to weigh in without making it an exploit that needs to be hotfixed back out.  Believe me, if you put in a mechanic that can be exploited we *will* bring it up!</p><p>Best of luck, looking forward to the next expansion!</p>

Nemas Ravenor
06-30-2010, 04:08 PM
<p><cite>zyllith wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Olihin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Greetings,</p><p>As Smokejumper stated, we have many other priorities to consider at this time.  This does not mean that I am not making sure we continue to research and consider further enhancements to our PvP server, but I am tasked with more then just PvP issues and those are taking priority.   When time allows, I will continue to champion some of the requests and concerns brought up.  In the meantime, we are not making for any huge changes to PvP at this time.</p><p>Please continue to submit your feedback and suggestions for enhancements.  If in doubt, you can always just PM me and inquire on the issue rather then make a new post.   I know that some of the in game discussions are always helpful to those that do not read the forums, so I will continue to spend my free time in there when possible. </p><p>Thank you all and happy hunting!</p><p><span style="color: #3366ff; font-size: large;">Olihin</span></p></blockquote><p>Understood, and thanks once again for all of your, Rothgar's and Smokejumper's efforts -- you have a number of fires to work on, and it's hard to drain the swamp while you're being attacked by alligators.</p><p>In the meantime, what (I) would ask for y'all is:</p><p>- Spend some time every so often and watch a WF unfold from the client side; get a toon, make him dead, sit at a spot where you can watch the toons interact and see what is working and what isn't.  Do this a few times a week during heavy times and quiet times.  Make a FRAPs of the session so you can compare different dates, times and servers ... this might show you things you didn't expect to happen</p><p>- Go to a lag-heavy location (center of a WF tower when it's being attacked, say) and do a FRAPs of about 5 min there and the same on Vox -- compare the two videos and check the server side logs to see where server cycles are being spent.  You've got a few months before the next expansion, really getting a handle on the lag will have payoffs not only for the PvP but PvE servers</p><p>- Every so often float a "trial balloon" of a potential PvP change on the forums; this lets people know you're alive, and gives the community a chance to weigh in without making it an exploit that needs to be hotfixed back out.  Believe me, if you put in a mechanic that can be exploited we *will* bring it up!</p><p>Best of luck, looking forward to the next expansion!</p></blockquote><p>wow, this was like... really smart and sh*t.  good post.</p>

Agent2k
06-30-2010, 06:04 PM
<p><cite>Olihin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Greetings,</p><p>As Smokejumper stated, we have many other priorities to consider at this time.  This does not mean that I am not making sure we continue to research and consider <strong><span style="color: #ff6600;">further enhancements</span></strong> to our PvP server, but I am tasked with more then just PvP issues and those are taking priority.   When time allows, I will continue to champion some of the requests and concerns brought up.  In the meantime, we are not making for any <strong><span style="color: #ff6600;">huge changes to PvP</span></strong> at this time.</p><p>Please continue to submit your feedback and suggestions for enhancements.  If in doubt, you can always just PM me and inquire on the issue rather then make a new post.   I know that some of the in game discussions are always helpful to those that do not read the forums, so I will continue to spend my free time in there when possible. </p><p>Thank you all and happy hunting!</p><p><span style="font-size: large; color: #3366ff;">Olihin</span></p></blockquote><p>This is the problem.  Changes and enhancements were never needed.  Trying to make it better has only made it worse.  Focus on what was working in the past to aid in your decisions for the future.</p>

Ralpmet
06-30-2010, 06:19 PM
<p>How do you know by "Enhancements" he doesn't mean upgraded server hardware? Kind of jumping the gun on that statement there champ.</p>

Agent2k
06-30-2010, 10:27 PM
<p><cite>Ralpmet wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>How do you know by "Enhancements" he doesn't mean upgraded server hardware? Kind of jumping the gun on that statement there champ.</p></blockquote><p>That is what he was talking about.  But the server hardware isn't the problem.  It's all the garbage they keep adding thats bogging it down...  champ.</p>

Edavi
06-30-2010, 11:10 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ralpmet wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>How do you know by "Enhancements" he doesn't mean upgraded server hardware? Kind of jumping the gun on that statement there champ.</p></blockquote><p>That is what he was talking about.  But the server hardware isn't the problem.  It's all the garbage they keep adding thats bogging it down...  champ.</p></blockquote><p>Eh, I disagree, i like new content... and I wish the server could handle it...  But server performance isnt a PVP issue, its a whole game issue, half the raid zones lag to the moon too...</p>

zyllith
06-30-2010, 11:27 PM
<p><cite>Edavi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ralpmet wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>How do you know by "Enhancements" he doesn't mean upgraded server hardware? Kind of jumping the gun on that statement there champ.</p></blockquote><p>That is what he was talking about.  But the server hardware isn't the problem.  It's all the garbage they keep adding thats bogging it down...  champ.</p></blockquote><p>Eh, I disagree, i like new content... and I wish the server could handle it...  But server performance isnt a PVP issue, its a whole game issue, half the raid zones lag to the moon too...</p></blockquote><p>I think you're both right ... I also like new content (keeps the game fresh, and adds weeks of stuff for me to do) but I also agree that the server lag isn't just a PvP issue, it's a game issue.  As others have said for a long time and I'm experimentally verified, lots of raid instances and lots of heavy mob instances are (almost) unplayable in groups large enough to tackle them due to the heavy, heavy lag. </p><p>I'm still firmly set in my "just say no to proc's" ranting, having found that for me, with my personal playstyle (solo or small group) that procc'ed gear *does* make a noticeable difference in those areas, to the point that I've removed 80% of my procc'ed gear and can now do instances cleanly where before the mob's and I would be break dancing across the room.  But that's a specific, client side fix -- the right solution can only be coded on the server side, which I'm hoping will come with the next expansion ...</p>

Hilt
07-01-2010, 01:33 PM
<p><cite>jdez wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If you ask me the BG's are a bunch of crap. I think the game needs to focus on what it really wants such as players to have fun, level etc. The BG's is just a big f fest of 90's mentoring with 30's and when someone engages a 30 and they dont see the mentored 90 the 90 unmentors and kills the whole group. (pathetic) not to mention the out of group speed hacks as well as the buff hacks everyone is using. I think it should be a time for lvl 30's only!!!! no 90's or little grey leachers. Let's face it im sure a pvp pro is going to have something to say about this like the typical ( hi i'm a pvp master and i know everything there is to know about the BG's) i get tired of the smart [Removed for Content] that think they know everything just because they have a lvl 90 doesnt make them any better than anyone else.</p></blockquote><p>You can unmentor while a groupmate is in combat?</p><p>[Removed for Content]</p>

Harbringer Doom
07-01-2010, 01:51 PM
<p><cite>Edavi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span><p>First bit of honesty : PvP is not our focus at the moment. Between the new user improvements and the expansion later this year, the majority of our focus is elsewhere.</p><p>Second bit of honesty : We know there are inadequacies. (Polite phrasing.) We *will* be looking into it and making changes. But there is no ETA for those changes yet.</p><p>Personal note: I've made a lot of PvP games in my game history. I'm looking forward to digging in with the team and talking through stuff. Just not quite yet.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Man... thats rough... but i guess he finally said what everyones been thinking/assuming...</span></p></span></p></blockquote><p>Another theoretical punch to the groin.</p>

Pinino-Lfg
07-01-2010, 07:51 PM
<p>I miss having a reason to pvp</p>

SmokeJumper
07-02-2010, 03:49 PM
<p>We're going to have a feedback panel at Fan Faire where we talk about the BGs, PvP servers, BGs on PvP servers, etc. We're looking forward to some good freeform decision back and forth about things at that time, in addition to the discourse here on these forums of course.</p><p>I'll personally be spending a bunch of game time doing PvP stuff soon (first BGs and then Nagafen) and the guys that actually do the work on the PvP systems are already analyzing and making suggestion lists.</p><p>Yes, we have other competing priorities, but this is not just being ignored until after the next expansion goes out. We do want it to be successful and fun. We'll get there.</p>

ailen
07-02-2010, 04:00 PM
<p>I hope so, this Nagafen server, is one of your highest populations.</p><p>Also... if you fix it, I know some people that will come back.  I could personally add 20-25 subscriptions of individuals if you actually take the time to do it CORRECTLY. </p><p>Nothing kills a game like word of mouth.. nothing can revive it the same way...  the PVP community although seems more adolescent than others is pretty tight.</p><p>but right now?  I've personally told people not to bother.</p>

Stuckx
07-02-2010, 04:04 PM
<p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>We're going to have a feedback panel at Fan Faire where we talk about the BGs, PvP servers, BGs on PvP servers, etc. We're looking forward to some good freeform decision back and forth about things at that time, in addition to the discourse here on these forums of course.</p><p>I'll personally be spending a bunch of game time doing PvP stuff soon (first BGs and then Nagafen) and the guys that actually do the work on the PvP systems are already analyzing and making suggestion lists.</p><p>Yes, we have other competing priorities, but this is not just being ignored until after the next expansion goes out. We do want it to be successful and fun. We'll get there.</p></blockquote><p>The best thing you could do for Nagafen right now would be to revert the server back to Kingdom of Sky and never,ever,ever,ever,ever,ever,ever,EVER..touch the PVP servers again.</p><p>Right now..PVP is the absolute worst it's ever been,and all these changes you think are going to make things better only make them worse ten times over.</p>

Zacarus
07-02-2010, 05:56 PM
<p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>We'll get there.</p></blockquote><p>It was already there.  Stop, make a u turn, and go back a few years.  There was nothing better than Slayer Zacarus beating Destroyer Frpboi, watching, "You have obtained the rank of Destroyer," flash on the screen while standing over the corpse of now de-ranked, Slayer Frpboi.  *That* was a fun game.  The thrill of jacking someone's title, and vice-versa, made the game.</p>

ScubaEtte
07-03-2010, 10:16 AM
<p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>We're going to have a feedback panel at Fan Faire where we talk about the BGs, PvP servers, BGs on PvP servers, etc. We're looking forward to some good freeform decision back and forth about things at that time, in addition to the discourse here on these forums of course.</p><p>I'll personally be spending a bunch of game time doing PvP stuff soon <strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">(first BGs and then Nagafen)</span></strong> and the guys that actually do the work on the PvP systems are already analyzing and making suggestion lists.</p><p>Yes, we have other competing priorities, but this is not just being ignored until after the next expansion goes out. We do want it to be successful and fun. We'll get there.</p></blockquote><p>just another slap in the face to those of us on the Vox server.  even though we are a LG server please remember we are still a pvp server as well with just as much lag as naggy with a whole lot less of a population.</p>

Powers
07-03-2010, 10:19 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It was already there.  Stop, make a u turn, and go back a few years.  There was nothing better than Slayer Zacarus beating Destroyer Frpboi, watching, "You have obtained the rank of Destroyer," flash on the screen while standing over the corpse of now de-ranked, Slayer Frpboi.  *That* was a fun game.  The thrill of jacking someone's title, and vice-versa, made the game.</p></blockquote><p>Am I the only one who finds that sort of joy at the expense of others highly distasteful?</p><p>Powers  &8^]</p>

Taldier
07-03-2010, 02:34 PM
<p><cite>Powers wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It was already there.  Stop, make a u turn, and go back a few years.  There was nothing better than Slayer Zacarus beating Destroyer Frpboi, watching, "You have obtained the rank of Destroyer," flash on the screen while standing over the corpse of now de-ranked, Slayer Frpboi.  *That* was a fun game.  The thrill of jacking someone's title, and vice-versa, made the game.</p></blockquote><p>Am I the only one who finds that sort of joy at the expense of others highly distasteful?</p><p> Powers  &8^]</p></blockquote><p>While I would disagree with zacarus about the importance of titles, I really dont get this blubie line.</p><p>Is it that inbred in your conciousness that pvpers need to be randomly represented as barbaric?</p><p>I mean sure...if every time you died someone from soe came around and cut off an appendage...that would be distasteful...</p><p>but since no one ever actually gets hurt from pvp except for the losers pride....Im not sure what your point is.</p><p>Youre basically saying that any remotely competitive activity is distasteful.  I suppose we could all hug and dance around in a field of flowers?  But not much would ever get done...</p>

Stuckx
07-03-2010, 03:42 PM
<p>Titles were the perfect system to have people out PVPing..Everyone enjoyed the satisfaction of killing that general and taking his title away from him..Still..even adding the old title system back in isn't going to fix the current state of PVP.</p><p>And don't give me any of that bluebie bull crap about "titles are meaningless! you're pathetic for caring about a title!"</p><p>Everything in this game is meaningless. This game is meant to be a diversion from real life..not replace it. Titles added a sense of danger,and everytime you lost your title,we all know how we reacted..Some of us got [Removed for Content] off and logged off..only to return more determined than before to kill the one who took your title. Titles added flavor to PVP,aside from just a method of getting gear.</p><p>If you don't like titles..that's fine..you don't have to worry about them..you can stay a hunter all you want..But you're daft if you don't think the old title system encouraged people to PVP..There were always full,stacked groups on both sides running around,looking to get that next title.</p>

Taldier
07-03-2010, 04:17 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Titles were the perfect system to have people out PVPing..Everyone enjoyed the satisfaction of killing that general and taking his title away from him..Still..even adding the old title system back in isn't going to fix the current state of PVP.</p><p>And don't give me any of that bluebie bull crap about "titles are meaningless! you're pathetic for caring about a title!"</p><p>Everything in this game is meaningless. This game is meant to be a diversion from real life..not replace it. Titles added a sense of danger,and everytime you lost your title,we all know how we reacted..Some of us got [Removed for Content] off and logged off..only to return more determined than before to kill the one who took your title. Titles added flavor to PVP,aside from just a method of getting gear.</p><p>If you don't like titles..that's fine..you don't have to worry about them..you can stay a hunter all you want..But you're daft if you don't think the old title system encouraged people to PVP..There were always full,stacked groups on both sides running around,looking to get that next title.</p></blockquote><p>Meh, for me it was always more about guild tags or folks I knew had better gear or people who liked to talk real big.  Personal rivalry does alot more for pvp than any automated reward system ever will.  Thats one of the reasons I always thought it was a bad move to make it so hard for the two factions to talk to each other.</p><p>I used to go out and see names of players who were really worth killing.  Now its just "hey look, its random sk #237287249 that no one cares about, I could spend 20 minutes of my life killing him or just walk away"</p><p>I know youre lying to yourself if you can tell me that you look back a few years ago and cant make a list of names and groups of people that would have you out for blood.</p><p>Can you tell me what titles they were each time you fought them?  Honestly did it matter?  Did you really fight other druids for a half hour to get an infamy hit or because you wanted to beat that specific person right in their face to show them you were better?</p><p>When you think back on the most memorable pvp fights you've had in eq2 do you think "I remember that time I fought that dreadnaught in that place"  or are you thinking about certain specific guilds and players?</p>

Stuckx
07-03-2010, 04:27 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Titles were the perfect system to have people out PVPing..Everyone enjoyed the satisfaction of killing that general and taking his title away from him..Still..even adding the old title system back in isn't going to fix the current state of PVP.</p><p>And don't give me any of that bluebie bull crap about "titles are meaningless! you're pathetic for caring about a title!"</p><p>Everything in this game is meaningless. This game is meant to be a diversion from real life..not replace it. Titles added a sense of danger,and everytime you lost your title,we all know how we reacted..Some of us got [Removed for Content] off and logged off..only to return more determined than before to kill the one who took your title. Titles added flavor to PVP,aside from just a method of getting gear.</p><p>If you don't like titles..that's fine..you don't have to worry about them..you can stay a hunter all you want..But you're daft if you don't think the old title system encouraged people to PVP..There were always full,stacked groups on both sides running around,looking to get that next title.</p></blockquote><p>Meh, for me it was always more about guild tags or folks I knew had better gear or people who liked to talk real big.  Personal rivalry does alot more for pvp than any automated reward system ever will.  Thats one of the reasons I always thought it was a bad move to make it so hard for the two factions to talk to each other.</p><p>I used to go out and see names of players who were really worth killing.  Now its just "hey look, its random sk #237287249 that no one cares about, I could spend 20 minutes of my life killing him or just walk away"</p><p>I know youre lying to yourself if you can tell me that you look back a few years ago and cant make a list of names and groups of people that would have you out for blood.</p><p>Can you tell me what titles they were each time you fought them?  Honestly did it matter?  Did you really fight other druids for a half hour to get an infamy hit or because you wanted to beat that specific person right in their face to show them you were better?</p><p>When you think back on the most memorable pvp fights you've had in eq2 do you think "I remember that time I fought that dreadnaught in that place"  or are you thinking about certain specific guilds and players?</p></blockquote><p>Titles helped to create those rivalries. When I think back to KoS/EoF PVP I think about awesome group on group fights,as well as the days when I ran around solo on my warden and did quite well. I had plenty of people that I always looked for and loved to kill,mostly because I hated them for taking my title,or I enjoyed killing them because I knew they would rage to no end about dieing at the end of my hammer.</p><p>I remember Notsovilepriest being one of my biggest enemies.Far as I can remember he never beat me in a one on one fight,and it got my blood pumping everytime I killed him. Why? Because back then we were both fame [Removed for Content],and I knew he would rage so hard at losing infamy to me,even logging over a few times. It was the same way for me..anytime I died to him,I got mad,often logging over to talk crap to him.</p><p>Titles created rivalries..titles made people want to go out an PVP,titles made people actually CARE about PVP..Now? People just PVP for gear..they don't care if they die..PVP has degenerated into hundreds of Q's and about fifty freeps hanging around a tower,rather than the good old days when people went out actively searching for PVP..At any one moment you might have five or six stacked full groups on each faction roaming around Kingdom of sky,or Ant and CL, or anywhere there was a spire.</p><p>PVP was a thousand times better in KOS/EOF than it is now,and it was partly because of the title system.</p>

Nofro
07-03-2010, 05:17 PM
<p>I can wait.  I'm just not playing this game until those issues are fixed.  That means I'm playing other games and that brings up something interesting:</p><p>What I'm finding, and what will make it hard to come back to EQ2, is only partially due to the PvP issues.  The game killer might end up being the lag issues.  I'm playing these other games at max graphics settings (max every single option) with no lag and very little zoning time.  When I log into EQ2, with that as a reference point, it makes it unplayable - I just don't have the patience for it.</p><p>That is partially due to the detail of the graphics but I think it's more than partially due to the code and the way the game interfaces with the processor and graphics cards.  I have a 64bit win 7 box (EQ2 code doesn't use 64 bit), I have 2 graphics cards using SLI (which doesn't seem to effect the graphics performance at all), I have 8 gigs of RAM and I'm running on fiber optic cable.  If you can't write a game that plays well on that setup you might want to think about a re-write or staring over on an EQ3 with a new graphics engine.</p><p>As a consumer I'm just not as open to lag as I once was.  When there were few credible options, and they all had lag, that was one thing.  Now other folks have solved those issues and it makes it real difficulty to play a game that is this laggy.</p><p>V.</p><p>P.S. <span><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/user/profile.m?user_id=207565"><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;"><span style="text-decoration: underline;">SmokeJumper</span></span></strong></a> thank you for your honesty it's refreshign.  For what it's worth I think that's the right way to treat these cusomters given their level of sophistication and dedication to the game.</span></p>

YummiOger
07-04-2010, 12:09 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Edavi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Sigh, Whens Rifts: Planes of Telara coming out?</p></blockquote><p>Fixed. SOE ftl</p></blockquote><p>Guild Wars 2 is going to be better then Rifts! GW2 looks amazing gameplay and grfx.</p>

Jacquotte
07-05-2010, 05:49 AM
<p><cite>Powers wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It was already there.  Stop, make a u turn, and go back a few years.  There was nothing better than Slayer Zacarus beating Destroyer Frpboi, watching, "You have obtained the rank of Destroyer," flash on the screen while standing over the corpse of now de-ranked, Slayer Frpboi.  *That* was a fun game.  The thrill of jacking someone's title, and vice-versa, made the game.</p></blockquote><p>Am I the only one who finds that sort of joy at the expense of others highly distasteful?</p><p>Powers  &8^]</p></blockquote><p>i think so, i too thought it was a blast.. brought that extra adrenaline-rushed edge to the game</p><p>its not that titles mattered that much, it was the idea of gaining or loosing something apart from your kvd.</p><p>titles or not, noone likes to loose somthing, it made cunning a requirement for pvp, and not just finding blue-background icons as it is now</p>

Dorsan
07-05-2010, 06:46 AM
I think it is a good thing is SoE focuses on the PvE. The problems with PvP can all be tracked down to lack of desirable contested PvE content. If people have nothing to do out in the open, then you wont see anyone and PvP will be dead. As it is now. Contested PvE content is what we need first, everything else, titles, gear, writs, even broken mechanics are not even nearly as important as having open world PvE content that people must grind for some whatever reason.

Jacquotte
07-05-2010, 07:01 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>I think it is a good thing is SoE focuses on the PvE. The problems with PvP can all be tracked down to lack of desirable contested PvE content. If people have nothing to do out in the open, then you wont see anyone and PvP will be dead. As it is now. Contested PvE content is what we need first, everything else, titles, gear, writs, even broken mechanics are not even nearly as important as having open world PvE content that people must grind for some whatever reason.</blockquote><p>also something needs to be done to reverse the mentality again (eg. by removing toughness and skyhigh amounts of critmit and making pvpgear harder to obtain like it used to be)</p><p>someone else said: you used to farm pve content for gear to pvp, now you farm pvp for gear to whatever</p>

Captain Apple Darkberry
07-05-2010, 07:52 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>We'll get there.</p></blockquote><p>It was already there.  Stop, make a u turn, and go back a few years.  There was nothing better than Slayer Zacarus beating Destroyer Frpboi, watching, "You have obtained the rank of Destroyer," flash on the screen while standing over the corpse of now de-ranked, Slayer Frpboi.  *That* was a fun game.  The thrill of jacking someone's title, and vice-versa, made the game.</p></blockquote><p>^^^  THIS</p><p>That is the problem SmokeJumper...you, and others before you, have spent sooooo much time forcing changes upon the PvP ruleset that drove people away.  Sure, these were all "fixes" that were designed with a "new player experience" or "making it easier to access content" kinda way, I'm sure with the honest intention of gaining members for the PvP servers...but they backfired, badly.  Permanent Immunity spots, writs instead of body drop tokens, no meaningful reason to PvP...all these things have driven away people, not created new players.</p><p>Stop trying to "fix" things.  Listen to the players when they say how fun PvP used to be in KoS...listen to the few complaints they had about the game back then.  Revert the game to that state, then fix the few problems as best you can.  Finally, step back, smile, drink a beer and then pat your back for doing what no one else could do, fix PvP in EQ2.</p>

ysslik
07-05-2010, 10:43 PM
<p><cite>Powers wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It was already there.  Stop, make a u turn, and go back a few years.  There was nothing better than Slayer Zacarus beating Destroyer Frpboi, watching, "You have obtained the rank of Destroyer," flash on the screen while standing over the corpse of now de-ranked, Slayer Frpboi.  *That* was a fun game.  The thrill of jacking someone's title, and vice-versa, made the game.</p></blockquote><p>Am I the only one who finds that sort of joy at the expense of others highly distasteful?</p><p>Powers  &8^]</p></blockquote><p>Yes you are. dont really care about titles personaly but the joy of killing someone and looting thier corpse(well tresure chest) is what we do its in our blood to kill while trying not to be killed.If you dont agree dont roll pvp.</p><p>Im hooked on this game like i was eq1 so i will end up waiting till the expantion and wont transfer to pve if allowed. for those that do leave  farewell hope soe gets it right and you all come back for the excitment and carnage known as PVP.</p>

EddyBobalou
07-06-2010, 10:10 AM
<p>Mount and Blade Warband anyone?</p><p>Epic multiplayer melee battles without any lag or grinding. Aim every sword swing / bow shot / shield block. Take your fallen enemies mounts / weapons / shields:</p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><strong>Every kill and death is extremely satisfying!</strong></span></p><p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeMkWSK1KCM">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeMkWSK1KCM</a></p><p>We grabbed this game from steam on July 4th sale for $15 at 50% off its now $30 everywhere but no monthly fee. This game is what I been lookin for.  Worth soo much more wow what a gem. Big playerbase / modders on forums too.</p><p>-this post was made by three 5 year eq2 pvp players.</p><p>so long</p>

Sephraa
07-08-2010, 06:07 PM
<p>I don't look for Guild Wars 2 to come out till early next year. So, I guess I will try Final  Fantasy XIV when it comes out in Aug-Sep timeframe to fill time til it does launch. I am disgusted with this PVP game and no fixes coming any time soon. But what can you expect from a predominantly PVE game w/a bit of PVP in it?</p><p>At least offer transfers for those on pvp servers. Might save yourselves some subs for awhile.</p>

Erriondrivan
07-08-2010, 09:31 PM
<p><cite>Sephraa wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I don't look for Guild Wars 2 to come out till early next year. So, I guess I will try Final  Fantasy XIV when it comes out in Aug-Sep timeframe to fill time til it does launch. I am disgusted with this PVP game and no fixes coming any time soon. But what can you expect from a predominantly PVE game w/a bit of PVP in it?</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">At least offer transfers for those on pvp servers. Might save yourselves some subs for awhile.</span></p></blockquote><p>Yes plsssssss</p>

Cloakentuna
07-09-2010, 01:37 AM
<p><cite>Erriondrivan wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Sephraa wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I don't look for Guild Wars 2 to come out till early next year. So, I guess I will try Final  Fantasy XIV when it comes out in Aug-Sep timeframe to fill time til it does launch. I am disgusted with this PVP game and no fixes coming any time soon. But what can you expect from a predominantly PVE game w/a bit of PVP in it?</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">At least offer transfers for those on pvp servers. Might save yourselves some subs for awhile.</span></p></blockquote><p>Yes plsssssss</p></blockquote><p>I always thought it was funny them claiming that it can't be done, especially after being guilded with a toon that was originally from a pve server.  All-be-it, that toon ended up getting put back on a pve server because enough people complained and SoE thinking to themselves "oh s**t we gotta cover this up" decided it best to mvoe the toon back and never speak of it again.</p><p>Transfers btwn different ruleset servers can happen, it has happened.</p>

Sephraa
07-09-2010, 12:05 PM
<p>Oh, we all know it can be done...WoW does it so I am positive it can be done here.</p>

fairytalewish
07-12-2010, 09:07 AM
<p><cite>EddyBobalou wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Mount and Blade Warband anyone?</p><p>Epic multiplayer melee battles without any lag or grinding. Aim every sword swing / bow shot / shield block. Take your fallen enemies mounts / weapons / shields:</p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><strong>Every kill and death is extremely satisfying!</strong></span></p><p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeMkWSK1KCM">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeMkWSK1KCM</a></p><p>We grabbed this game from steam on July 4th sale for $15 at 50% off its now $30 everywhere but no monthly fee. This game is what I been lookin for.  Worth soo much more wow what a gem. Big playerbase / modders on forums too.</p><p>-this post was made by three 5 year eq2 pvp players.</p><p>so long</p></blockquote><p>O M G this is what I have been looking for. Thank you soooooooo much. Wasn't sure until I played it for myself. The combat is PERFECTO. thank you thank you thank you. I just got the free trial and played in the arena almost was last man standing. sooo sweeeeet</p>

baldwinboy3
07-12-2010, 12:22 PM
<p>I am always on the fence about eq2, been here since day one basically and on pvp since day one and i always quit and try a new game but... i always come back because eq2 is still the best one out there.</p><p>I have compliants too but come on we are all still here for a reason and that is this is a good game. i love doing the bgs and wfs even though i am nagafen freep who is seriously outnumbered. i do just go  out to pvp in el and other zones at times and have fun there too.</p><p>all i am saying is maybe its time to quit the compliant fest and start trying to put out good feedback with solutions that is not just based off your view, think of everyone involved.</p>

Axistio
07-15-2010, 09:03 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>We're going to have a feedback panel at Fan Faire where we talk about the BGs, PvP servers, BGs on PvP servers, etc. We're looking forward to some good freeform decision back and forth about things at that time, in addition to the discourse here on these forums of course.</p><p>I'll personally be spending a bunch of game time doing PvP stuff soon <strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">(first BGs and then Nagafen)</span></strong> and the guys that actually do the work on the PvP systems are already analyzing and making suggestion lists.</p><p>Yes, we have other competing priorities, but this is not just being ignored until after the next expansion goes out. We do want it to be successful and fun. We'll get there.</p></blockquote><p>just another slap in the face to those of us on the Vox server.  even though we are a LG server please remember we are still a pvp server as well with just as much lag as naggy with a whole lot less of a population.</p></blockquote><p> ^This not that it matters freeport on Vox is dead 3/4th of the guild Brom and I were in have sold to reroll in hopes of the green grass on the other side and qeynos is filled to the brim with hopeless raiders. If naggy's being put to the side can you imagine how we feel we're the server they wish they aborted. Why even have a Vox server anymore shut it down already, it's wrong to ignore a server and leave them to their hopes that we all know will never come to fruition</p>

Isuldor
07-16-2010, 04:25 AM
<p>I forward the notion that SOE rolls back to EOF release and tries again.</p><p>I'm just very sad to see it all go to hell really. I miss the old fame system, with fame **ores running from you.. hitting the carpet in DLW.. or running to the Sokokar( [Removed for Content] spellcheck? You'd think sony would have their own words in this database?) post in KP. I mean really, I know they're human and all but anyone with eyes can see WF is a zone cluster**** without end. I bet a poll would show that most people dislike WF and BG as it stands. One or the other really. You roll on a PVE server, you either get a transfer, or pve like you originally intended. PVE= PVE, not PVE = sometimes PVE with fighting against PVPers when we want to. </p><p>I vote they remove battlegrounds as it is completely, and modify warfields. Somehow force participation so you can't just get flagged, evac, and sit afk and get tokens for it. </p><p>Maybe model WF after BG, but make it server local. PVE servers get NPC attacks, PVP gets PVP. Like.. a central tower in Ant/CL/GFay/DLW, with a few surrounding towers across the map. Its a constant struggle, with a buff to all players of a certain faction if their side is currently in possession of more towers than the opposing faction. Also, need to find a way to re-balance factions on Nagafen, as it is Qeynos seriously outnumbers Freeport. This could be done by throwing exiles a bone and letting them get the gear merchants, and offering to let people who go back to Freeport within a certain time period no loss of masters provided they stay the same class(+ make the betrayal quest easier for a time) I don't know for sure, but it looks to be about 3 - 1 ratio between Qeynos and Freeport. </p>