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View Full Version : Remove Toughness or PVP Crit Mit


Arcanias
06-17-2010, 10:56 AM
<p>Having both Toughness and PVP Crit Mit has reduced incoming damage by too much making fights last too long.  We all wanted longer fights, but not fights that last forever.  I suggest removing either Toughness or PVP Crit Mit.  I would prefer to just have Toughness removed, since we already have mitigation that reduces damage.  Any gear that has toughness on it could be converted to have PVP crit mit on it instead.  I think this would fix the insane amount of damage reduction that is currently taking place.   </p>

Wytie
06-17-2010, 11:22 AM
<p>I dont see that happening tbh. Not now, but they can easly adjust how much pvp crit mit you get from toughness which should be 0 instead of 1.5% that it is now.</p><p>Pvp crit mit with full toughness is overkill even for me as a squishy mage can be really hard to kill, it gets plain stupid when tanks and healers have it ultra stacked on too.</p><p>But this is what the community asked for... So we got it.</p>

Arcanias
06-17-2010, 11:40 AM
<p>Yup, we all wanted longer fights, but now they last way too long.  I think we all agree that adjustments have to be made to lower the insane amount of damage reduction currently in the game. </p>

Dorsan
06-17-2010, 03:27 PM
The main issue is that while DPS can be mitigated, heals can not. I personally like the high critical mitigation and I like toughness too. But I think that mitigating 75% of any damage is too much if you are going to reduce them afterwards. If you just take down that mitigation cap to 70%, you will effectively increase all DPS by 20% - with the exception of scout DPS on non-sorcerer mages - which is actually ok as it is. Then improve those [Removed for Content] mutilation procs so that they are not curable, proc twice as many times and for 30% heal reduction and we will have much shorter fights.

Yimway
06-17-2010, 03:37 PM
<p>I'd actually recommend changing the max mitigation on non-fighters to 50% for pvp combat.</p><p>Make non-tanks easier to take down when you can get targets on them. </p><p>If you do this and fix tank self healing, the pvp game would level out some.</p>

Dorsan
06-17-2010, 03:57 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'd actually recommend changing the max mitigation on non-fighters to 50% for pvp combat.</p><p>Make non-tanks easier to take down when you can get targets on them. </p><p>If you do this and fix tank self healing, the pvp game would level out some.</p></blockquote><p>I am guessing you are talking about physical mitigation?</p><p>Because it makes no sense for a tank to have higher mitigation against disease damage. I doubt a plate armor would help you against the plague tbh. And if you are talking about the physical mitigation then this is probably the worst idea ever. It would increase scout DPS against non tank classes by factor of 2 while leaving mage DPS as it is. That would basically kill 6 classes in PvP.</p>

ailen
06-17-2010, 04:41 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'd actually recommend changing the max mitigation on non-fighters to 50% for pvp combat.</p><p>Make non-tanks easier to take down when you can get targets on them. </p><p>If you do this and fix tank self healing, the pvp game would level out some.</p></blockquote><p>Tanks need fixing too.  Fighting a solo SK with no healer for 15 mintues with a full group and  NOT getting him below 90% once is completely idiotic.</p>

EQ2Player
06-17-2010, 07:38 PM
<p>My 2 cents. Leave it alone and quit screwing with stuff</p>

Vlahkmaak
06-17-2010, 08:03 PM
<p>I have to disagree - leave my toughness and pvp crit mit alone.  Without it guardians would just keel over and die.  Without it <strong>1:1 vs a<span style="text-decoration: underline;"> SIMILIARLY</span></strong> fully pvp geared toon of any other class, especially crusaders, dps healers,  rangers (10 sec of immunity is not enough time to charge a ranger and dps it down with immunity items) and sorcerers a guardian has no leg to stand on. </p><p>Guardians seem just fine as we are with the current system: it is the rest of the classes which make the system unbalanced (yes balance everything around guardians).   With healers we can take a substantial amount of damage and do a decent job of keeping the dps off our grp.  Solo we can take a decent amount of damage but with no self heals you will not have a 15 minute fight of any grp vs a solo guardian like you will with far worse geared crusaders, zerkers, and brawlers except in the case of a very, very, poorly, badly geared grp maybe, and even then.   My comment applies to only our open world pvp server - the classes that can be killed in BGs by a guardian truelly amaze me (but then again they are not equally geared).</p><p>I hated the entire toughness concept to begin with but unless PVP gear is going to be nearly on par with raid gear and we go back to TSO era sets then what is the point - SOME classes continue to be OP in PVP and no matter which ruleset is used those classes will continue to be OP in PVP.  It took entire grps of well played/geared toons to kill a well played/geared inqy in TSO, same with crusader, brawler, etc.  Same issue different PVP mechanic.</p><p>Before non red server raiders begin screaming about easilly obtained gear lets be serious about easy mode raid mobs.  Most of the new Ice zone can be 1-2 grped by my raid force so it has got to be getting done faster and more efficiently by better staffed organizations.  The first three items in labs can be one grouped (takes about 30 minutes to kill the nameds but it can be done).  The first 2 nameds in Palace can be 1 grped - ok, I did the Seer [Removed for Content] 9 toons (yhea took forever but its a super easy script my 7 year old coulda followed the joust points) but I think given just my MT set up we coulda done it too with just the 6 of us - prob woulda taken another 30 minutes so gotta love the DPS logged in that night.</p><p>So far everything up to the pants can be 1 grouped: given time and energy all these items are easily obtainable - few more people in our raid force it will go quicker but these items can be obtained 1x every 3 days by a very limited number of people in poor grp composition too.   Easy mode raid gear is not hard to obtain - just time consuming.  PVP gear should likewise be time consuming - not NEARLY as time consuming as it was on Venekor last year at this time (afk on spann for 2 hours anyone?) but time consuming nonetheless.  Risk should equal reward.  Easy mode raid gear has no risk like current BG/pvp gear has no risk.</p><p>Before the current system is scrapped (I am really not a fan of toughness) PVP class balance needs to be addressed FIRST.  One would EXPECT a fully PVP geared or raid geared toon of ANY class to be able to outlast 6 toons in treasured or MC gear but not 6 equally geared toons.  Fix the classes and CHOOSE a system of reward and penalty and stick with it.  </p><p>My preference was TSO (KoS was great for my ranger btw but not for my guardian or necro due to body drop mechanics) as gear progression was in line with raid progression - we were able to pick and choose our path and mix and match pvp and raid gear and play the game we wanted - pvp with raiding and instancing.  Now our time is being overly split between PVP/raiding/questing with forcing to gear up under two opposing rulesets with gear that will barley work one way or the other excepting the god awful PVE OP proc gear which is good under both rulesets.</p>

Vishiimtar
06-17-2010, 08:06 PM
<p>Until they fix pvp via removal of toughness or pvp crit mit, my accounts and guildies's account will be unsubscribed.</p>

Chakos
06-19-2010, 09:03 PM
<p><cite>Vishiimtar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Until they fix pvp via removal of toughness or pvp crit mit, my accounts and guildies's account will be unsubscribed.</p></blockquote><p>That alone will not fix pvp. Your ignorance won't be missed.</p>

lollipop
06-20-2010, 03:23 AM
<p><cite>Vishiimtar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Until they fix pvp via removal of toughness or pvp crit mit, my accounts and guildies's account will be unsubscribed.</p></blockquote><p>lol</p>

zyllith
06-20-2010, 03:29 AM
<p><cite>Vishiimtar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Until they fix pvp via removal of toughness or pvp crit mit, my accounts and guildies's account will be unsubscribed.</p></blockquote><p>We will all be lesser for your and your guildies absence, and the community will regret that you and your guildies have gone.</p><p>Goodbye.</p><p>Of course, if you or your guildies <strong><span style="color: #ff6600;">EVER</span></strong> post here in these forums again then it means you have re-activated your account(s) and are <span style="color: #ff6600;">more</span> than happy with the way SOE handles toughness or pvp crit mit, but that's beside the point ...</p>

Arcanias
06-22-2010, 09:43 AM
<p>Last night, it was me(90 Warlock) vs 90 troub, 90 bruiser, and 90 warden.  The fight lasted for about 10 minutes untill one of my buddies showed up thankfully to put the nail in the coffin.  I guess the point is that the fight should not have lasted 10 minutes, they should have killed me or I should have killed them, it was practically a stalemate.</p><p>Remove toughness(convert into PVP Crit Mit), keep PVP Crit Mit.</p>

Arcanias
06-25-2010, 11:57 AM
<p>No more need for toughness with the addition of pvp crit mit.  Normal mitigation with pvp crit mit should be enough.</p><p>Too much damage reduction has made heals insanely overpowered, and fights last far too long now.</p><p>Please remove toughness and convert it into pvp crit mit.</p><p>.</p>

max.power
06-25-2010, 12:01 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>No more need for toughness with the addition of pvp crit mit.  Normal mitigation with pvp crit mit should be enough.</p><p>Too much damage reduction has made heals insanely overpowered, and fights last far too long now.</p><p>Please remove toughness and convert it into pvp crit mit.</p><p>.</p></blockquote><p>There is no need to remove it, just don't hand out Toughness and Crit Mit to all classes equally.</p>

Arcanias
06-25-2010, 12:11 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>No more need for toughness with the addition of pvp crit mit.  Normal mitigation with pvp crit mit should be enough.</p><p>Too much damage reduction has made heals insanely overpowered, and fights last far too long now.</p><p>Please remove toughness and convert it into pvp crit mit.</p><p>.</p></blockquote><p>There is no need to remove it, just don't hand out Toughness and Crit Mit to all classes equally.</p></blockquote><p>This could work, but I think it would be too complicated to implement.  Ditching toughness all together is more practical imo.  We already have physical/magical mitigation to reduce incoming damage while pvp crit mit helps balance out crit bonus.</p>

Jacquotte
06-25-2010, 06:00 PM
<p>on top of this pvp combat breaks after 4 seconds if you are not attacked</p><p>plz remove this too</p>

Dorsan
06-26-2010, 12:02 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>There is no need to remove it, just don't hand out Toughness and Crit Mit to all classes equally.</p></blockquote><p>And who do you propose to get more of it? Tanks? Will their DPS and HPS be reduced 10 times? No? Then thanks, but no thanks.</p>

Edgaard
06-26-2010, 01:26 AM
<p>My zerker has a full armor set of pvp gear</p><p>anyway, I joined a bg match and I was wailing on this illusionist (mind you, I had full temps going) in offensive stance and dual wielding, and I was hitting him for 152 .. 142, 207</p><p>I then proceeded to /wrist myself in the bathtub with cold water in it and threw a toaster in aswell.</p><p>Sony needs to fix their stuff <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Cloakentuna
06-26-2010, 01:39 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>My zerker has a full armor set of pvp gear</p><p>anyway, I joined a bg match and I was wailing on this illusionist (mind you, I had full temps going) in offensive stance and dual wielding, and I was hitting him for 152 .. 142, 207</p><p>I then proceeded to /wrist myself in the bathtub with cold water in it and threw a toaster in aswell.</p><p>Sony needs to fix their stuff <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>And yet with all that you still managed to not kill yourself.  Canadians just fail at everything don't they.</p>

BlueEternal
06-26-2010, 01:43 AM
<p>I lol'd</p>

Edgaard
06-26-2010, 02:15 AM
<p>shut up froggy ! </p><p>ratongas > froglocks </p><p>x1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000 x infinity</p>

Pinino-Lfg
06-26-2010, 01:43 PM
<p>think it depends on ur class i know rotate always says he doesnt wear any pvp gear and hez pretty durable lol</p>

Kota
06-26-2010, 01:54 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>My zerker has a full armor set of pvp gear</p><p>anyway, I joined a bg match and I was wailing on this illusionist (mind you, I had full temps going) in offensive stance and dual wielding, and I was hitting him for 152 .. 142, 207</p><p>I then proceeded to /wrist myself in the bathtub with cold water in it and threw a toaster in aswell.</p><p>Sony needs to fix their stuff <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>warm water next time</p>

Kota
06-26-2010, 02:17 PM
i agree they need to tone down some of the damage redux, but i don't know how ( maybe they don't either) how they are gonna do that and keep ppl in pvp gear. i think it's good that they have separated pve and pvp gear. i hope they keep it that way. it's precarious, because without all this mit, scouts would deff need nurfed. it would be 'zapp' pvp for them with all but tanks.