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Kunaak
06-05-2010, 05:27 PM
<p>reading EQ2 Wire today, I read a post from some dev, and one part caught my eye.</p><p><em>"We’re analyzing the “empty world” situation in the mid-level zones and thinking about possible solutions to revitalize all the fantastic content in this game and fill it with players so everyone’s not crowded into the end parts of the game."</em></p><p>I thought about this very thing a few weeks back, but really hesistate to say it, cause I know current and older players wouldnt like it.</p><p>the idea goes... this games got a great deal of really solid older content. very challenging, and well made older content... however, since the games primary focus is end game content, this older content seems to go largely unused, or even unknown.</p><p>about me...</p><p>I played this game for 2 years, before I found out there was a raid zone, in splitpaw... a raid zone I've never even been able to enter.</p><p>I have no idea where the "God King" is, or even what its about.</p><p>in 3 years playing (so far), I've never got a group and went into the city below sinking sands.</p><p>I've never done emerald halls, I've seen the outside of the zone, but nothing more.</p><p>the raid zones in tunare, and looping planes, I've never done. it was almost a year before I even found tunare, and that was only cause I found some pieces to the cloak of flames one day, and got really gung ho on finishing that HQ.</p><p>you see the pattern?</p><p>I am not a old everquest player, I started at the beginning of ROK, started heavily raiding in TSO, and today am in one of the best guilds worldwide for SF raid content. I've gotten to see a great deal, and do alot of things.... in TSO and SF.</p><p>but all older content eludes me. I cant solo it, unless to just wander around with the zone grey... no one raids this older stuff, people forget some of its even there. groups dont stay in the level range long enough to even be interested in the content, as getting to 90, is not only extremely easy, but where everyone does everything. 90 is where everyone is...</p><p>so I look at all this older content, and think its a real shame to see it so well... lost.</p><p>so I tried to figure out how to get people interested in actually doing this content, and reducing the "race to 90" mentality of the game, so theres more to the game, then just getting your mythical and marks.</p><p>to do this, I first thought, ok, how can this be different then just "mentor someone and do this and that"? or "why bother, theres nothing there I need".</p><p><strong>Idea 1.</strong></p><p>Achievements, for doing things at the proper level range... with handy rewards that last the entire range of the game.</p><p>at the same time - make these achievements have signifigant amounts of AA for achieving, AA you cannot ever get, even with mentoring. so you have a very high motive for doing something in the proper level range.</p><p>for this to work, the achievements must be done, while leveling, and while the content is still aggro to you.</p><p>like the splitpaw raid I just mentioned, say you do it, with a toon your leveling, and go in there with a raid, and kill whatevers in there.</p><p>that means, you experieced the content, at the proper difficulty range, and with gear for that time, so the content wasnt trivialized. if a level 90 toon just mentors someone, they can probably just duo tons of older stuff, with little to no challenge. - if that was the case - the entire achievement is pointless.</p><p>for doing content, and achievements in the proper level range, you can earn something handy, like a appearance cloak, that looks cool as hell, and can be had no where else in the game (or LON) - and has some cool clicky that is not only helpful, but not limited to uses. so say the cloak has a clicky for 100% run speed for 1 hour - usable once a day.</p><p>or a charm, that will teleport someone to you, once a day.</p><p>or a mount thats so awesome you cant not stop to check it out, like the WOE mount, or Munzok mounts.... no discs please.</p><p>think of it like the flawless charm from TSO, achievements with great rewards. but in this case, not rewards that too overpowerd.</p><p>but on the flip side - why not have a item or two that are kinda beastly? I mean, the flawless charm required a ridiculous amount of work to get, each flawless a check off a list, complete that list, you got something pretty crazy.... the flawless charm.</p><p>well, what if there was something similar, say complete all KOS raids, at proper level (Not Mentord) - then you get this awesome weapon, that once every ten levels you can get upgraded, not a mythical level weapon, but more like low end epic weapon, that at 60 is one weapon, at 70 you go talk to this guy, and it gets upgraded to a different weapon, and so on up to 90, till you can start to replace it with level 90 stuff.</p><p>achievements that MUST be done within the proper level range, to preserve the intended difficulty of the zones and content for the level.</p><p>so once say your 60, you cant go back and try to get your level 40 spirits of the lost achievement/reward, cause by then, your beyond the difficulty range and the content - even if you mentord is too easy then.</p><p>this idea, would greatly make people stop, and look at the content of thier level range, and think "do I want to try and earn this charm that will allow me to once a day - earn 100% tradeskill XP for a hour - if I kill varsoon, while I am still in the level 30's?"</p><p>the easier the achievement - the more so so the reward. the more difficult the achievement, the better the reward, but the rewards but remain useful for the duration of the game. so things like a cloak with a clicky buff for 100% run speed for a hour a day, is fun, but not gonna really change any game content... but a thing like getting a level 50 ring, for killing darathar, would be ignored completly, since by level 60, that same ring would be useless.</p><p>so think outside the box on the achievements and rewards - how to make them desirable, and not really altering game content in any drastic way (so they arent basically required)</p><p>this idea, is almost aimed entirely at new players, or players leveling alts.</p><p><strong>Idea 2.</strong></p><p>flag key items from various older raids, or harder older zones as "upgradable".</p><p>every ten levels you take said item to some guy, and turn it in for a upgraded version - or a quest to get it upgraded.</p><p>not all items, but key items, I am sure the game devs have those favorite items they made back in the day, that were just awesome that they were kinda proud of. items that players of that time really wanted.</p><p>what if the best priest DPS 2 hander, didnt drop in a SF raid zone - but off say darathar?</p><p>or the coolest berserker appearance helm, was out of the last guy in that instance in desert of flames, where theres the door in the cliff?</p><p>or even weirder.... what if, some crap loot item you got at alevel 40 herioic zone boss, became crazier each time you upgraded it, so by 80, it was a pretty beastly item?</p><p>items that are unique, but not better then say, level 90 fabled instance loot.</p><p>I say key items from older zones, cause if every item was... man, thats just a mess waiting to happen. but a few of the best old items, being upgradeable, would be pretty interesting. items that are unique, but not items that lock you into that piece of gear, like mythicals did.</p><p><strong>Idea 3.</strong></p><p>part of this directly relates to idea 1.</p><p>for this part, disable the AA gained from the achievement, if you mentor.</p><p>older game content, as it is, is completly and totally trivialized, when a level 90 toon, especially those with raid gear, masters or more then 230 AA. a level 90 toon mentord to say 40, can absolutely annihilate older content, even so far as my berserker was able to solo darathar... a 50 something epic X4. while self mentord to the right level range....</p><p>on my assassin, theres not a single level 70 heroic boss or below, that I cant basically 1 shot.</p><p>basically, when I mentor to a zones level range, I am in god mode. I have a zillion AA, that say when permafrost came out, a toon with 250AA was a day dream. now, its real. so being level 40, with 250 aa.... really just makes the content trivial - no challenge at all.</p><p>at 90, I wouldnt dare say try to solo Vigilant Rescue.... it would be a massacre, even with all my gear, and AA and masters.</p><p>so, lets say some older players who are 90 already, and never did spirits of the lost, and want the achievement/reward for going there, and doing the zone.</p><p>getting a few friends, and going and self mentoring, your small group can just destroy the zone... cause its trivialized by having little to no challenge, since you have so much AA, Gear, Masters and so on.</p><p>but what if there was a second kind of self mentoring?</p><p>every expansion had a AA cap right? a gear cap (like a warden parsing 8k in DOF wouldnt seem real would it?) and so on...</p><p>well, what if this new zone mentor guy, capped your AA. so say you wanted to do a ROK zone, at level, and earn some achievement and item. well, the AA cap in ROK was 140. so your cap would be 140. your TSO line insantly greyed out, not usable - as if it wasnt even there. but all that nice fancy raid gear and super instance loot you got in SF... all cut in half in effectiveness, so your back to the point where crypt of agony... was actually a challenge again.</p><p>with that kinda mentoring, it would be possible to go back and earn old achievements and items if you wanted to.</p><p>the idea, is to almost force you to experiece older game content, in a way, that preserves the difficulty intended.</p><p>so things like me, on my berserker, soloing darathar - seem more like a joke then anything.</p><p>if a bunch of 90's want to get together, and go raid splitpaw... they have to zone mentor, and just deal with the low level AA cap, and massive reduction in things like resists, procs, armor mit, crit - DA. so that way, if you wanted to raid that content, you'd need a full raid, not just 4 friends, self mentord in god mode.</p><p>for as much as I know you guys hate hearing suggestions for things with more rewards, its nearly impossible to distract people from the race to 90. to get them to want to do these older zones, older HQ's, older content, there needs to be a very viable reason to not just rush from 40 to 50 in a day, and so on.</p><p>but at the same time, this kinda idea cant be geared towards older players, without severe penaltys. see you cant just say "well mentor to 40 and go do this and this, and get your appearance cloak that does this", cause level 90 toons, mentord down, at basically invincible.</p><p>if the toons indestructable - why ever bother doing it at level??</p><p>the idea of gaining alot of AA, from the achievement while doing the zone when the toon is actually in the proper level range, instead of just mentord, is so people dont use this as a means of just gaining AA, and loot, but to do it for the experience of the content first in the intended difficulty range.</p><p>the rewards being useful throughout the life of the game, is a means to insure people do the achievements. think of it like stilleto in thundering steppes.... why do people care if he's up? a level 30 heroic? even today....</p><p>that is what the achievement rewards should be like. something you can always use...</p><p>thats a idea. what if you did every raid from 30-70, and got a new, more powerful mana stone? one that say, increases your power by 500, and 100 every 3 seconds for 15 seconds, but reduces your health by 10%?? doing the raids, as intended of course - or with the harsh method of mentoring I mentiond.</p><p>dont you think that would get alot of peoples attention? it would be useful, but hardly game breaking. but rather difficult to achieve.</p><p>the entire point of this post is... how to get new players to actually want to experience older content, within the level range, and while leveling?</p><p>how to allow older players to go back and experience this older content - without allowing them to basically do it in god mode?</p><p>how to reduce to race to 90, so people are actually playing all ranges of the game - not just 1.</p>

Kunaak
06-05-2010, 05:42 PM
<p>Idea 2....</p><p>that idea would keep older players, zone mentoring, and going back to try and get some item they liked that can up upgraded. not just once for the achievement - or achievement reward.</p><p>we all know loot is never guaranteed, older content loot should be just as random as always. meaning, if you want this awesome sword that so and so drops, and can be upgraded... better be prepared to run it more then once.</p>

Upir
06-05-2010, 06:13 PM
<p><strong>Idea 4</strong>  -  Focus on getting class balance issues worked out before going back to try to increase the allure of old content.  <span></span></p><p>I'm sorry, but SoE already allots far too much of their resources towards content they deem "new and different" when there are far too many underlying issues that go unresolved.  If you really are raiding in "<span>one of the best guilds worldwide for SF raid content" I would think this would be a position you'd understand...</span></p><p>*edited because I cant form a sentence properly, apparently...</p>

Nuhus
06-05-2010, 06:55 PM
<p>It's dead cause the content isn't T9. Also dead cause they don't update the XP the quests give while making newer stuff give more xp.</p>

brightwhite
06-05-2010, 08:13 PM
<p>good ideas OP <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" /></p>

gourdon
06-05-2010, 08:26 PM
<p>I would like this solution, though new restrictions would have to be placed on Heritage quests requiring that they be completed at appropriate level.  Also, I think players should have to pay for the upgrade of that equipment.  Transmutation materials of the appropriate tier come to mind, though a system similar to sacrificing items for diety favor would work as well.</p><p>However, there is a simpler solution.  Make the game up to level 50 or so free to play, with possibly station cash "tolls" to advance beyond 20, 1 toll per tier.  That would help fill the game with probably incompetent super-casual players, but there would be more low level players.</p>

Eritius
06-05-2010, 10:10 PM
<p>I have an idea to throw out there.</p><p>First thing, fix the item drops.</p><p>Make Treasured on par with Handcrafted of the same tier, or slighty better if its a higher level item. Adjust stats to match the way stats affect classes now.</p><p>Make Legendary on par with Mastercrafted, same stuff as above.</p><p>Make Fabled better then anything. Maybe even increase Smart Loot percentages in some of the older dungeons.</p><p>That alone would be a big big step in revitalizing content.</p><p>Next step is to remove some of these low level lockout timers. Allow dungeon running to be a method of progression. In WoW I could level all the way to max level from 12. I could also use the gear in a cleared dungeon as a base of progression. Like the gear obtained in Deadmines (level 20) would be used and adequete in a 25-30 dungeon. I wouldn't need to quest if I went dungeon to dungeon.</p><p>Quests are great for solo play, but solo play isn't my forte, I love running dungeons with friends. I can't be the only one out here that feels that way.</p><p>Finally instance every low level dungeon 1-89. Then allow for cross server grouping in these instances. Give an incentive in the form of a buff to damage, hp, regen when you are in a PUG dungeon finder. Yeah this is stealing from WOW, but it was a Great success there. We already have something they don't yet, cross server friend lists. There's more possibilites to be had with this. Why let them beat EQ2 to the punch?</p>

Amyas
06-05-2010, 10:55 PM
Stop raising the level limt and just raise AA and ad more AA

Landiin
06-06-2010, 01:54 AM
<p><cite>Amyas wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Stop raising the level limt and just raise AA and ad more AA</blockquote><p>And FIX THE CLASS BALANCE ISSUES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</p>

Rahatmattata
06-06-2010, 03:46 AM
<p>Make grouping more rewarding than soloing. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8f7fb9dd46fb8ef86f81154a4feaada9.gif" border="0" /></p>

Alvane
06-06-2010, 03:19 PM
<p>Interesting ideas presented..... I rolled a New Halas alt and have been working the lower levels for AAs - they come very quickly which I expected. It seems every quest is an AA quest including those in the villages of Q, and I'm sure same with FP, though my character is good and can't get past FP villages lowbee guards at 20-25. So I don't think AA rates need to be revamped. Those complaining just need to chonomage down and work those hundreds of AA quests - they are there for the taking! My character is almost at 500AA quests at level 19 has 47AAs. A friend has a 25 character with 76AAs. Getting AAs is only a problem if you make it a problem.</p><p>The loot does need to be heavily upgraded. I haven't found anything I could really use except it's good for transmuting or selling. DLW loot is on par or slighly lower than NH and TD. GFAY loot needs upgrading fer sure.</p><p>There is no question the lower zones like ANT, TS, NEK, CL, Caves, Graveyard, GFay etc. need upgrading. Even instances like BB and WC can be upgraded.</p><p>I do hope the devs take a look at your ideas. Thanks for presenting them.</p>

Alvane
06-06-2010, 03:21 PM
<p><cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Make grouping more rewarding than soloing. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8f7fb9dd46fb8ef86f81154a4feaada9.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>One does not have to take away from another to make it worth value. They are different play styles entirely.</p>

Alvane
06-06-2010, 03:33 PM
<p>One interesting thing I noticed. My lowbee at level 17-18 easily did the HQ "In Honor and Service." The character had nothing special - NH gear and about 40AAs.</p><p>My other characters who did it at level (2 of them) couldn't solo that HQ at all. One was part of a group that did it and the other trio'd the HQ at level - no mentoring (wasn't even available at the time).</p><p>So one of the things that occured over the years included changes in spells, gear, character traits, MOB changes, etc. One has to take that into account. Any thing prior to KoS didn't have any AAs, nor the gear that you see today even at level. The TD, DLW, NH gear did not exist in Shattered lands and the HQs of the time.</p>

Rahatmattata
06-06-2010, 03:58 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Make grouping more rewarding than soloing. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8f7fb9dd46fb8ef86f81154a4feaada9.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>One does not have to take away from another to make it worth value. They are different play styles entirely.</p></blockquote><p>Teaming up with other players should allow you to complete harder content with more rewards than what you could accomplish solo.</p>

psisto
06-06-2010, 05:47 PM
<p><cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Make grouping more rewarding than soloing. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8f7fb9dd46fb8ef86f81154a4feaada9.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>One does not have to take away from another to make it worth value. They are different play styles entirely.</p></blockquote><p>Teaming up with other players should allow you to complete harder content with more rewards than what you could accomplish solo.</p></blockquote><p>It already does. group/raiding allows you to tackle harder content than you could solo. Sure, some classes can solo instances if they have half a day to spend, yes. But then they should get these rewards because they put the required effort in.</p><p>One of the main issues with empty lower end content is the question of "why bother?" for a lot of people. Reasons are as follows:</p><p>a)  some older ones give comparably horrible rewards. Sometimes you dungeon dive, only to get a handfull of treasureds for your effort. Also, a LOT of items arent updated to the new itemization. So you have low level legendaries and fableds that you will ditch for the next best treasured. Sometimes you get a legendary ring with nothing more but +x to 2 stats and +resist for 2-3 categories, and other such "beauties". Ive looked through lootDB for some bigger zones, and sadly the drops are... just useless anymore. The newer quest lines give much better stuff, and some heroic content doesnt even have a legendary on its loot table. So you either get really bad treasured, or a master book if you luck out and drop an exquisite.</p><p>b) older content just whizzes right past. Why even TRY to do it when 5 hours later, your gear is outdated? there is no reason to farm an instance for days on end, only to get one piece of equip if youre lucky, which you will ditch for something better way too soon. Even mastercrafted is losing its meaning. Crafting it / farming mats for it or even getting enough pp to BUY a horribly overpriced set (6p a piece for T3 MC anyone?) takes longer than the time youll be wearing it, even when taking it slow.</p><p>c) because of a & b, you wont find groups. So unless youre prepared  to 1) slow down and farm AAs, playing a class which can solo well such as SK or summoner and 2) find a friend or two to small group through harder stuff. This will still keep you out of raids however</p><p>So whats the suggestion here? Tricky is what I say. My vote goes for the following:</p><p>a) Once the final level cap raise has been achieved (my guess is 100 is the end), focus on making the entire game one coherent experience. or heck, start now and plan ahead for the last 10 levels. make it so lower end content can be really nice too, and the really cool fableds might just last you 10+ levels if youre lucky to get them.</p><p>b) Offer two different exp curves. One being the current model, where the golden path will pretty much yank you all the way to cap in a matter of days if you have the right friends + strategy, and another where its a MUCH slower, uniform progression, so grouping for wailing caverns will actually be worth something, and so that itll actually be possible to keep crafting and adventuring side by side, without stopping dead in your tracks to catch up with crafting every 5 minutes</p><p>lastly, advertise this new exp curve to your playerbase, new and old, so people actually enjoy the game, rather than rush to the cap and then be stuck raiding the same dozen zones day in day out</p>

slippery
06-06-2010, 06:07 PM
<p><cite>Amyas wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Stop raising the level limt and just raise AA and ad more AA</blockquote><p>This, and dump diminishing returns and put the combat mechanics on a straight line.</p>

Tylia
06-06-2010, 06:14 PM
<p>I have an idea.. fix the messed up state of lower lvl items.  I mean really.. what's wrong with this picture..</p><p>Vraksakin's Talisman,  lvl 68 fable neck item, dropped from Vraksakin a lvl 72 ^^^epic x4 in Temple of Scale.  Stats are +8 each str/sta/agi/wis/int,  +80 health and +80 power,  +284 each nox/elem/arcane.</p><p>My alt is currently wearing a lvl 66 treasure neck piece , <span >Bellywhumper Necklace of Assurity, which is a quest reward from a quest in KP and the stats are </span><span ><span >+10 sta</span> <span >+10 agi</span> <span >+20 wis</span> <span >+30 int, </span></span><span ><span >+90 health</span> <span >+90 power, </span></span><span ><span >+690 vs elemental</span> <span >+414 vs noxious, +4 focus, 8 in-combat power regen, and Benevolent Alacrity 1 (which </span></span><span >Reduces cast time of beneficial spells by 1 percent.)</span></p><p>I realize that they come from 2 different expansions, but it just doesn't make any sense to me for the differences to be so great in that a lvl 66 treasure piece is much better than a lvl 68 fable piece dropped from an epic.  It doesn't "pay" to do the older content in opinion except for one run through for the AA xp.</p>

Odys
06-06-2010, 07:35 PM
<p>Remove timer and access quests, make loot decent the minimum should be MC quality, the ideal would be no trade items that carfter could turn into fabled stuff.</p>

Gisallo
06-06-2010, 07:59 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Amyas wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Stop raising the level limt and just raise AA and ad more AA</blockquote><p>And FIX THE CLASS BALANCE ISSUES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</p></blockquote><p>A great idea and that will happen once everyone can agree as to the purpose of their class.  I mean lets be serious, half the problem with this game is 24 classes and only 6 group slots and only 24 raid slots.  I'll use healers as the example for this because they are what I am most familiar with.  Shaman are there to prevent damage, but you have issues with class balance between them because some people see healers as only healers.  Others see the shaman's balanced because a defiler "heals" better but the Mystic can do a butt load more dps.  Whose vision of the shaman do you use to accomplish this balance?  The same largely can be said for clerics.  Druids in TSO were complaining because the mechanic of their heals put them at a distinct disadvantage.  They now have cure changes and a few other things that make them more desireable but still some complain.  That being said how many furies out there that do not raid would RAGE at the fact that, in order to make the fury a better raid "healer", their "tier 2" dps got driven into the ground?   </p><p>There is an old saying that goes something like this "its better to keep most people annoyed than to make a single minority ESPECIALLY angry" and its this issue that SOE faces in any game sweeping class balance attempt due to the number of classes.  Now there are a VERY few classes that are simply so obviously OP that they need to be addressed but in so far as the game wide class balance issues, they are NEVER going to be addressed until such time as SOE feels that the player base has a majority driven vision as to what each classes role is supposed to be.  Since you have soloers, groupers and raiders in this game good luck in ever getting anything like that.</p>

Rahatmattata
06-06-2010, 09:23 PM
<p><cite>psistorm wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><blockquote></blockquote><p>Teaming up with other players should allow you to complete harder content with more rewards than what you could accomplish solo.</p></blockquote><p>It already does. group/raiding allows you to tackle harder content than you could solo. Sure, some classes can solo instances if they have half a day to spend, yes. But then they should get these rewards because they put the required effort in.</p></blockquote><p>For lower end content it is far more rewarding to solo than to group. Not only are items better in T2 and T3 from solo errands, but even beyond those tiers the AA gain is much more rewarding doing solo errands. This is common knowledge and I'm surprised someone would argue otherwise. Of course there are special circumstances such as level locking, grinding a dungeon with a mentored 90 shadowknight and 4 billion % bonus xp.</p><p>Yea, you can team up and complete harder content for less reward than soloing green quests. Yay?</p>

bks6721
06-07-2010, 12:43 AM
<p><cite>Upirus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><strong>Idea 4</strong>  -  Focus on getting class balance issues worked out before going back to try to increase the allure of old content.  </p><p>I'm sorry, but SoE already allots far too much of their resources towards content they deem "new and different" when there are far too many underlying issues that go unresolved.  If you really are raiding in "<span>one of the best guilds worldwide for SF raid content" I would think this would be a position you'd understand...</span></p><p>*edited because I cant form a sentence properly, apparently...</p></blockquote><p>balance is NOT possible.  Your idea of balance would have others calling for either nerfs or improvements to their class.</p><p>SOE could state tomorrow that "Classes are now balanced" and people would still have their opinions.</p>

bks6721
06-07-2010, 01:03 AM
<p>Lower tier content requires lower tier characters.   The absurd rate that exp is gained currently is why we don't have more. Unless you move your aa slider, 10 levels in a day is simple.</p><p>I'm curious, if a player where to start the Prismatic 1 questline at the correct level with the aa slider on zero would the quest be completely greyed out by the time you finish it?</p><p>It seems we have players of two opposite extremes now.  They either level lock at a low level for aa or they level as fast as they can.  Most taking the later route.   EXP is so fast now you HAVE to move the slider towards aa now just to prevent greying out a zone before you finish the quests.</p><p>in short.. low levels are dead because leveling is way to fast and easy.  My first characters experienced a lot of content at low level because you HAD to if you wanted to level up.</p><p>Last summer I leveled a Warlock to 80 in 4 days.  He quested the TD newbie quests then just killed until he was high enough to start the KP questline.  No mentor, no recruit a friend, no exp potions.. 80 with 4 days played. THAT is too easy.   The only reason I did it was because my two mains where already at the aa cap and i was bored of running TSO zones over and over.   I deleted him shortly after.</p>

Brigh
06-07-2010, 01:14 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Next step is to remove some of these low level lockout timers.</p></blockquote><p>Remove the stupid old "everyone needs access to get in" zones like Poet's Palace, and the T7 x2 Mara raid instance, Xux'laio's Roost.</p><p>I want to finish this old Mara quest but can't get it done because I can't find people that have the tower quests completed to the third floor in order for them to get this quest (already tried using guild flag to get people to third floor; it still kicks you out).</p>

Upir
06-07-2010, 01:32 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Upirus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><strong>Idea 4</strong>  -  Focus on getting class balance issues worked out before going back to try to increase the allure of old content.  </p><p>I'm sorry, but SoE already allots far too much of their resources towards content they deem "new and different" when there are far too many underlying issues that go unresolved.  If you really are raiding in "<span>one of the best guilds worldwide for SF raid content" I would think this would be a position you'd understand...</span></p><p>*edited because I cant form a sentence properly, apparently...</p></blockquote><p>balance is NOT possible.  Your idea of balance would have others calling for either nerfs or improvements to their class.</p><p>SOE could state tomorrow that "Classes are now balanced" and people would still have their opinions.</p></blockquote><p>My idea of balanced would start with unscrewing the rangers.  Then give some attention to furies cause theyre regarded as short bus riders atm.  After that, give some kind of love to illys because as it stands now, I don't see how that class could be all that much fun to play.  Maybe give the brawlers some kind of attention, maybe not.  I don't know how they're fairing atm since my guild has none (as mains) atm.</p><p>Thanks, btw, for telling me what my idea of balance is.  Could you also let me know what I'd like to have for lunch tomorrow?  Also, could you let me know how I feel about the new Christina Aguilera CD?  I mean, I feel like I don't care either way, but you go ahead and tell me what I think. </p><p>You Don't nerf classes.  It's the worst thing you can possibly do as an MMO developer.  When you give your gaming population anything, and then take it away, it leaves you with an ANGRY customer base.  Unless something is pretty much outright broken, you just grin and bare it.  If you mess up and give something too nice to some classes, you either better take it away extremely quickly (as in a matter of hours, before people accept it as the way things now are) or you give something else to all the counterparts of said classes to balance it out. </p><p>PERFECT balance isn't possible.  Better balance than the way things currently stand for some classes now would be shockingly easy...</p><p>**edit - spelling</p>

bks6721
06-07-2010, 01:46 AM
<p><cite>Upirus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Upirus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><strong>Idea 4</strong>  -  Focus on getting class balance issues worked out before going back to try to increase the allure of old content.  </p><p>I'm sorry, but SoE already allots far too much of their resources towards content they deem "new and different" when there are far too many underlying issues that go unresolved.  If you really are raiding in "<span>one of the best guilds worldwide for SF raid content" I would think this would be a position you'd understand...</span></p><p>*edited because I cant form a sentence properly, apparently...</p></blockquote><p>balance is NOT possible.  Your idea of balance would have others calling for either nerfs or improvements to their class.</p><p>SOE could state tomorrow that "Classes are now balanced" and people would still have their opinions.</p></blockquote><p>My idea of balanced would start with unscrewing the rangers.  Then give some attention to furies cause theyre regarded as short bus riders atm.  After that, give some kind of love to illys because as it stands now, I don't see how that class could be all that much fun to play.  Maybe give the brawlers some kind of attention, maybe not.  I don't know how they're fairing atm since my guild has none (as mains) atm.</p><p>Thanks, btw, for telling me what my idea of balance is.  Could you also let me know what I'd like to have for lunch tomorrow?  Also, could you let me know how I feel about the new Christina Aguilera CD?  I mean, I feel like I don't care either way, but you go ahead and tell me what I think. </p><p>You Don't nerf classes.  It's the worst thing you can possibly do as an MMO developer.  When you give your gaming population anything, and then take it away, it leaves you with an ANGRY customer base.  Unless something is pretty much outright broken, you just grin and bare it.  If you mess up and give something too nice to some classes, you either better take it away extremely quickly (as in a matter of hours, before people accept it as the way things now are) or you give something else to all the counterparts of said classes to balance it out. </p><p>PERFECT balance isn't possible.  Better balance than the way things currently stand for some classes now would be shockingly easy...</p><p>**edit - spelling</p></blockquote><p>see?   even discussing balance generates differing opinion.  That is why balance is not possible.  Class improvements, sure, but not balance.  You say unscrew the rangers?   Ok, go look at all the posts in the bg and pvp forums about overpowered rangers.  Its all opinion and only SOE is in a position to say who is right.</p>

Upir
06-07-2010, 02:16 AM
<p>I'd be willing to bet you don't play any of the classes I mentioned at lvl cap do you???  Group with static people with the intent of burning through instances efficiently on said classes?  Raid with any serious intent on said classes?  When you pay SoE your XX.95 a month, it kind of goes without saying that you expect them to try to make the game an enjoyable experience as reasonably possible for everyone.  I won't sit here and act like that's an easy job, I'm certain it's not.  The problem is, it's painfully clear that some classes have fallen through the cracks of what any reasonable person would deem "acceptable upkeep".  Go over to the ranger forum and ask them if they feel like Sony's given their class their money's worth. </p><p>As far as your specific response of rangers in PvP.  I don't much care.  This game wasn't launched as a PvP game. PvP/BG is an afterthought that's receiving entirely too much attention lately when there are bigger issues that need addressed.  I'd be very curious what percentage of people would pick PvP if you asked every single person who plays this game if they'd rather see things balanced for PvP or PvE.  Balancing 24 classes is a tight enough rope to walk when you're doing it for just one type of gameplay, it's not going to be easier when trying to do it for more than one.  So, you do what makes the most people happy, (unless you're dumb and don't want your company to make money, which I have questioned at times).</p><p>P.S.  In PvP rangers have a bunch of CAs that suck by comparison to their PvE rulesets, as well as the fact that bow auto attacks carry an extra 15% damage penalty over melee weapons.  Fine.  Whatever.  Do what you have to do to balance the class in PvP, but get the core game straightened out first...</p>

bks6721
06-07-2010, 02:40 AM
<p><cite>Upirus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'd be willing to bet you don't play any of the classes I mentioned at lvl cap do you???  Group with static people with the intent of burning through instances efficiently on said classes?  Raid with any serious intent on said classes?  When you pay SoE your XX.95 a month, it kind of goes without saying that you expect them to try to make the game an enjoyable experience as reasonably possible for everyone.  I won't sit here and act like that's an easy job, I'm certain it's not.  The problem is, it's painfully clear that some classes have fallen through the cracks of what any reasonable person would deem "acceptable upkeep".  Go over to the ranger forum and ask them if they feel like Sony's given their class their money's worth. </p><p>As far as your specific response of rangers in PvP.  I don't much care.  This game wasn't launched as a PvP game. PvP/BG is an afterthought that's receiving entirely too much attention lately when there are bigger issues that need addressed.  I'd be very curious what percentage of people would pick PvP if you asked every single person who plays this game if they'd rather see things balanced for PvP or PvE.  Balancing 24 classes is a tight enough rope to walk when you're doing it for just one type of gameplay, it's not going to be easier when trying to do it for more than one.  So, you do what makes the most people happy, (unless you're dumb and don't want your company to make money, which I have questioned at times).</p><p>P.S.  In PvP rangers have a bunch of CAs that suck by comparison to their PvE rulesets, as well as the fact that bow auto attacks carry an extra 15% damage penalty over melee weapons.  Fine.  Whatever.  Do what you have to do to balance the class in PvP, but get the core game straightened out first...</p></blockquote><p>SOE has stated they have a 60% participation in BG's.  That IS a majority.</p><p>Here is a FACT.  Every single class has people in it that think they need a boost in some form or another.  Most of them will never get it.  They will not believe anything is balanced unless they do.</p><p>Balance is decided by SOE.  Since they will not state what their vision of balance is how do you know when its achieved?   It has been stated, by SOE, in the past that balance would never be achieved in this constantly changing, evolving game.   So if nothing else can happen until we get balance then I guess nothing new will ever happen.</p>

Upir
06-07-2010, 03:04 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>SOE has stated they have a 60% participation in BG's.  That IS a majority.</p></blockquote><p>1.  This logic is totally shot.  I've participated in BG's.  Yippie!!  Guess this makes me part of your majority that would rather see balance be prioritized around PvP/BG... uh oh!! wait a minute....</p><p>Participation /= Preference</p><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Balance is decided by SOE.  Since they will not state what their vision of balance is how do you know when its achieved? </p></blockquote><p>2.  I refer you to my previous advice... goto the ranger forums and ask them if they think they're getting anything even remotely close to their fair amount of attention atm.  I don't need to know the ins and outs of Sony's process for determining their "vision of balance" to take a look at some things in the game and see that they're broken.  If you do, then I'm sorry for you.</p>

bks6721
06-07-2010, 03:21 AM
<p><cite>Upirus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>SOE has stated they have a 60% participation in BG's.  That IS a majority.</p></blockquote><p>1.  This logic is totally shot.  I've participated in BG's.  Yippie!!  Guess this makes me part of your majority that would rather see balance be prioritized around PvP/BG... uh oh!! wait a minute....</p><p>Participation /= Preference</p><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Balance is decided by SOE.  Since they will not state what their vision of balance is how do you know when its achieved? </p></blockquote><p>2.  I refer you to my previous advice... goto the ranger forums and ask them if they think they're getting anything even remotely close to their fair amount of attention atm.  I don't need to know the ins and outs of Sony's process for determining their "vision of balance" to take a look at some things in the game and see that they're broken.  If you do, then I'm sorry for you.</p></blockquote><p>I know you are right.  You being right proves what I was trying to say.  Balance is based upon opinion and opinions differ.   But... I don't think that is what the OP wanted to talk about so lets help him by letting this derail die.</p>

Rahatmattata
06-07-2010, 04:11 AM
<p><cite>Upirus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You Don't nerf classes.  It's the worst thing you can possibly do as an MMO developer.  When you give your gaming population anything, and then take it away, it leaves you with an ANGRY customer base.  Unless something is pretty much outright broken, you just grin and bare it.  If you mess up and give something too nice to some classes, you either better take it away extremely quickly (as in a matter of hours, before people accept it as the way things now are) or you give something else to all the counterparts of said classes to balance it out.</p></blockquote><p>Not sure what makes you think this. MMOs nerf classes and items all the time. Overall balance is more important than a single class.</p>

Levatino
06-07-2010, 07:51 AM
<p>good idea's OP, I hope it will get implemented at some time. As a levellocker myself and thus trying to do content at level I can only applaud you.</p>

MurFalad
06-07-2010, 08:27 AM
<p><cite>Kunaak wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>but at the same time, this kinda idea cant be geared towards older players, without severe penaltys. see you cant just say "well mentor to 40 and go do this and this, and get your appearance cloak that does this", cause level 90 toons, mentord down, at basically invincible.</p><p>if the toons indestructable - why ever bother doing it at level??</p></blockquote><p>This is a big problem for me too, the basic philosophy of the original game is that you do not get rewarded for doing trivial things, that's a big draw from me compared to other MMOs and a real big reason that I enjoy and play EQ2.However its starting to no longer be true due to massive difference in level ranges while mentoring, this problem just gets worse, but I think your idea of greying out lines of AA depending on how low you mentor down to really makes a lot of sense.  Overall I'd like to see either mentoring fixed to offer a bigger challenge, or a heroic mentoring option that gives more XP/loot in return for the original difficulty of a level.The other problem is that at the top end the game is so out of whack that people have non-grey content that offers no challenge at all, even my Guardian has had this problem pre-level 90 in T2 void shard gear.  For example I could AFK in Tox forest and mobs would not be able to out damage my regen, the same mobs then are very easy to kill, I've suggested before some sort of small portion of damage always scaling to the player health pool as a way to keep things challenging, that means better gear improves a character but effectively gives diminishing returns that effectively narrow the gap between the best and worst geared characters.Back to the idea of getting the old zones more populated, I don't think making the gear scale up via exchanging etc will work well due to the amount of work vs time, and I don't like the idea of having only one chance to do a zone (mentoring back then does not give rewards) as I'd much prefer they corrected the overpowered nature of Mentoring (I know some players like it that way, but I'd guess that they are the same players who likely have not experienced that other MMO where I guess the challenge in EQ2 is a breath of fresh air).I would actually say that quiet zones at the lower level isn't a big problem, I do actually like the fact that the game is so huge that areas of it are not jam packed with players.  I believe it is a deliberate decision from that other MMO to have so little content to channel players through it, but this contributes a lot to a more theme park feel of things.  However my suggestion for grouping people up more at the lower levels would be to have hot zones/quests/raids to encourage one path over another (but make them challenging when you mentor down to prevent farming).The other idea the OP had of having AA lines that can only be unlocked by doing the older content at the original difficulty sounds cool, I would suggest though that mentoring was fixed for this to allow people to go back to do it at a hard difficulty rather then feel like they have missed out.</p>

MurFalad
06-07-2010, 08:41 AM
<p><cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Upirus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You Don't nerf classes.  It's the worst thing you can possibly do as an MMO developer.  When you give your gaming population anything, and then take it away, it leaves you with an ANGRY customer base.  Unless something is pretty much outright broken, you just grin and bare it.  If you mess up and give something too nice to some classes, you either better take it away extremely quickly (as in a matter of hours, before people accept it as the way things now are) or you give something else to all the counterparts of said classes to balance it out.</p></blockquote><p>Not sure what makes you think this. MMOs nerf classes and items all the time. Overall balance is more important than a single class.</p></blockquote><p>Got to admit I'm pig sick of hearing people asking for their class to be buffed up without a care for the actual gameplay, and I would agree that overall balance is more important then anything.  It feels like EQ2 right now at the high levels is suffering a little from too much fear of nerfing hence a lot of the solo gameplay feels lacking.</p><p>Even more important then this is making each class have a defined role and something that they excel in which exists in the current game. </p><p>E.g. its not use being a great Mezzer if there is no need to Mezz, its no use to be a good single target tank if everything is AoE, the solution I'd like to see there would be to change the gameplay to make a need to mezz so that an enchanter is valued, the wrong decision I believe would just be to make an enchanter into a wizards DPS, or to make a guardian into a crusader tank to "fix" the problem.</p>

Alvane
06-07-2010, 11:53 AM
<p><cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Make grouping more rewarding than soloing. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8f7fb9dd46fb8ef86f81154a4feaada9.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>One does not have to take away from another to make it worth value. They are different play styles entirely.</p></blockquote><p>Teaming up with other players should allow you to complete harder content with more rewards than what you could accomplish solo.</p></blockquote><p>That is true, but it does depend on what the gamer wants. Some players just don't have time and only play on occasion - so they prefer solo play. Others prefer a combination - solo and some grouping. Still others will only group. And there is another type of player that only logs in for raids.</p><p>This is one MMORPG that tries to provide content for the solo player, the group player and the raid player. But to take away from one in order to give to another type player just isn't in the best interests of SoE's biz.</p>

Alvane
06-07-2010, 11:55 AM
<p><cite>Brigh wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Next step is to remove some of these low level lockout timers.</p></blockquote><p>Remove the stupid old "everyone needs access to get in" zones like Poet's Palace, and the T7 x2 Mara raid instance, Xux'laio's Roost.</p><p>I want to finish this old Mara quest but can't get it done because I can't find people that have the tower quests completed to the third floor in order for them to get this quest (already tried using guild flag to get people to third floor; it still kicks you out).</p></blockquote><p>Try forming groups so peeps CAN finish up the 2nd floor to get to the 3rd floor. That's a solution, too.</p>

MoiraesFate
06-07-2010, 12:05 PM
<p>There's a city below sinking sands? I've been here for at least five years and didn't know that. </p><p>There's so much stuff in this game, its hard to know it all. And some really old raid zones should be lowered in difficulty to allow you to solo it by now. Eventually, the tough stuff would all just die off, don't you think? </p>

Alvane
06-07-2010, 12:10 PM
<p><cite>MurFalad wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I would actually say that quiet zones at the lower level isn't a big problem, I do actually like the fact that the game is so huge that areas of it are not jam packed with players.  I believe it is a deliberate decision from that other MMO to have so little content to channel players through it, but this contributes a lot to a more theme park feel of things.  However my suggestion for grouping people up more at the lower levels would be to have hot zones/quests/raids to encourage one path over another (but make them challenging when you mentor down to prevent farming).The other idea the OP had of having AA lines that can only be unlocked by doing the older content at the original difficulty sounds cool, I would suggest though that mentoring was fixed for this to allow people to go back to do it at a hard difficulty rather then feel like they have missed out.</p></blockquote><p>Unfortunately, despite that it sounds good on paper, there have been so many game changes, that I doubt it can be possible.</p><p>I have a low level character who has been recently messing around in ANT (at level 12-1<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. Like  you, I enjoy the older content areas - even if the rewards are lacking except for  transmuting fodder. There is not only a wealth of content, but interesting stories and lore - as this is where it all begins - after the shattering and wars.</p><p>I do run into a few groups, solo players (at level) and duos/trios mentoring and self- mentoring. Just with my character - she slices through yellows very quickly and oranges do give her challenges. On the other side - my first character I took through ANT couldn't solo the rats, nor the scarecrows/gnolls just outside the gates of NQ? It was common to group at minimum 3 to work through a lot of the heroic content in ANT that has since been nerfed.</p><p>I watched others - even the small groups that mentored/self mentored with "follow alongs." They sliced through mobs like a dull knife in warm butter. I saw one duo group - an obvious boxer, take on the Tower of the Gnoll Keeper and in less than 2 minutes, had every NPC in that place deader than a door nail.</p><p>I'm not sure what the answer is since there has been a lot of changes to the content.Do we ask SoE to make ANT full of heroics again after they nerfed it due to the complaints?</p>

Alvane
06-07-2010, 12:19 PM
<p><cite>MoiraesFate wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>There's a city below sinking sands? I've been here for at least five years and didn't know that. </p><p>There's so much stuff in this game, its hard to know it all. And some really old raid zones should be lowered in difficulty to allow you to solo it by now. Eventually, the tough stuff would all just die off, don't you think? </p></blockquote><p>Yes it is difficult to know every single zone and instance. I rely on <a href="http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page" target="_blank">wikia</a> and <a href="http://eq2.zam.com/" target="_blank">zam</a>. Both are excellent resources that allow me to check various zones and instances in each region I'm working.</p><p>Yes, there are some peeps who at level 90 or there about self mentor (chronomage) and/or box and solo raids like Clockwork Menance, Halls of Seeing, the Labs as well as group instances like Poets Palace, The Roost, CMM, Lockjaw etc. I knew a few who did those. I even duo'd OoA, Ravenscale, some of the EF instances, too - without mentoring but a level!</p>

Luna
06-08-2010, 12:04 PM
<p><cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Make grouping more rewarding than soloing. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8f7fb9dd46fb8ef86f81154a4feaada9.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>One does not have to take away from another to make it worth value. They are different play styles entirely.</p></blockquote><p>Teaming up with other players should allow you to complete harder content with more rewards than what you could accomplish solo.</p></blockquote><p>I wish SOE would make it possible to solo (or duo) raids for better loot.  Why not scale raid content and difficulty to match the number of people in a group.  I do not like to do full group raids although I used to in EQ and early in EQ2. </p><p>I love to solo and do not wish to be forced into a group just to be able to finish certain quests.   The reason?  #1 - It is HARD to find groups now and #2 - I have had so many bad experiences with grouping that I have all but stopped agreeing to join pick up groups.</p><p>I personally do not agree with rewarding only players who "team up".</p>

Luna
06-08-2010, 12:06 PM
<p><cite>MoiraesFate wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>There's a city below sinking sands? I've been here for at least five years and didn't know that. </p><p>There's so much stuff in this game, its hard to know it all. And some really old raid zones should be lowered in difficulty to allow you to solo it by now. Eventually, the tough stuff would all just die off, don't you think? </p></blockquote><p>^ This.</p><p>A city below dinking sands?  Lol.  I never knew either... and you can see how long I have played the game.</p>

Rahatmattata
06-08-2010, 01:44 PM
<p><cite>Luna wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I wish SOE would make it possible to solo (or duo) raids for better loot.</p></blockquote><p>I'm sorry, but that's a terrible idea.</p>

Axterix
06-08-2010, 01:53 PM
<p><cite>MurFalad wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I would actually say that quiet zones at the lower level isn't a big problem, I do actually like the fact that the game is so huge that areas of it are not jam packed with players.  I believe it is a deliberate decision from that other MMO to have so little content to channel players through it, but this contributes a lot to a more theme park feel of things.  However my suggestion for grouping people up more at the lower levels would be to have hot zones/quests/raids to encourage one path over another (but make them challenging when you mentor down to prevent farming).The other idea the OP had of having AA lines that can only be unlocked by doing the older content at the original difficulty sounds cool, I would suggest though that mentoring was fixed for this to allow people to go back to do it at a hard difficulty rather then feel like they have missed out.</p></blockquote><p>Hot zones wouldn't help much.  Low level people already level extremely fast, especially in a group that contains a couple of people that have AA, be they mentored or ones that aren't blitzing up in levels.  And for high levels, the AA xp isn't good enough to stick around once the *s have been dealt with.</p><p>I'd say if you want people to do the older content, there'd be three things you'd want to do:</p><p>1.  The Loot.  Currently most of it sucks.  And when selling to adorners, treasured items have more value than the Legendary or Fabled.  This makes the ideal team size for doing a dungeon about 3 players.  Seems to be what gets you maximum loot per hour, treasured loot that you can then sell to afforded crafted gear.</p><p>The Fabled and Legendary drops would need to be adjusted.  Certain places, like Kaladim, also need to see a greater variation of loot that drops (and, of course, for Kaladim, the 60ish gear fixed to be something in the 30-40 range).  Treasure drops they could skip, to save time, since they have plenty of value as things to sell.</p><p>This would it more appealing to those who are leveling a bit slower, getting more AAs.  The better gear and AAs in turn make it easier to do with small groups.</p><p>2.  AA xp for killing things would need to be increased while in dungeons.  This would keep the higher levels around.  It'd have to be done carefully though, say based around how many level appropriate people are in the group.  While you do want some life in the low level dungeons, having them all farmed by high levels isn't good.  Discouraging, for example, for a team of appropriately leveled players to want to turn around Ruins of Varsoon, only to have a mentored group slaughter every named, something that is pretty typical to have happen in that dungeon.</p><p>3.  Fix up the old level 20 armor quest lines to all be legendary+ armor with appropriate stats for the classes involved.  Then add similar quests for every tier.  These quests used to provide a great incentive to go to various dungeons.  If they were worth doing again and each piece required the same dungeon across classes, though different things in each dungeon (and non-grindy things)...</p><p>As to forcing people to do older content, it may sound cool, but it isn't.  It is like all the get keyed to access quests that used to plague EQ II.  Players should be encouraged to do things, but if you have to do it to unlock some AAs, then people will feel it is required.  And since they have to do it with every character, they'll also get sick of doing it.</p>

Yimway
06-09-2010, 11:55 AM
<p>Enhancing content that is over in a blink of an eye unless you take extreme measures to slow it down is a waste of development resources and player time.</p><p>Spending time in the middle game where the majority of your players work their hardest to get out of it as quickly as possible isn't doing a service to your players, or your bottom line.</p>

SmokeJumper
06-10-2010, 07:30 PM
<p>To the original poster...yes, those are great ideas. We've been tossing ideas around recently, and one of those was discussed, while the other two you post are new. Thanks much!</p><p>Yes, there is a city below Sinking Sands. "The Silent City", I believe. I found it when completing a quest chain there last weekend. You have to swim out into the bay to enter it. Very cool.</p>

Macross_JR
06-10-2010, 07:44 PM
<p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>To the original poster...yes, those are great ideas. We've been tossing ideas around recently, and one of those was discussed, while the other two you post are new. Thanks much!</p><p>Yes, there is a city below Sinking Sands. "The Silent City", I believe. I found it when completing a quest chain there last weekend. You have to swim out into the bay to enter it. Very cool.</p></blockquote><p>SmokeJumper you do know there is a access quest in Living Tombs that also gets you to Silent City?  Starts with the monky sitting on the ledge as you enter Living Tombs from Sinking Sands.</p>

Neskonlith
06-10-2010, 07:51 PM
<p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Remember when the trash in SC was dropping masters at an exciting rate for a little while, and "DoF" suddenly became "Desert of Fun"?  There was a lot of excitement and lowbie alts woken up!</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Then the fun part was fixed because it was a bug and everyone went away.</span></p><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" /></p>

Kilaelya
06-10-2010, 08:04 PM
<p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yes, there is a city below Sinking Sands. "The Silent City", I believe. I found it when completing a quest chain there last weekend. You have to swim out into the bay to enter it. Very cool.</p></blockquote><p>I just cried a little.</p>

EvilAstroboy
06-10-2010, 09:09 PM
<p>Finding enough low level players to do this sort of thing means it wont work.</p><p>If you want to revitalise old content, have the zones with a revamped level 90 challenge mode. Would be a bit of effort tweaking the old names to provide a challenge to level 90s though.</p><p>All old content raids should be turned into challenging group zones while at that level. The only people doing these old raids are max level players farming AA.</p>

Odys
06-10-2010, 10:40 PM
<p>i Disagree, if old heroic and raid content was providing cool items, if QH rewards were highly desired, if the leveling speed was cut down, low level content would probably  revive.</p>

Malacha
06-10-2010, 10:47 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>i Disagree, if old heroic and raid content was providing cool items, if QH rewards were highly desired, if the leveling speed was cut down, low level content would probably  revive.</p></blockquote><p>And I disagree with you. Punishing people for being level 90 by not allowing them to also go back and pick up these cool rewards by mentoring is going to cause alot of hurt feelings. I like the idea of adding better rewards to the achievement system, but to give someone a better reward that another player simply CAN'T get because they're too high is stupid.</p>

Calain80
06-11-2010, 06:02 AM
Actually I like the ideas for heroic content, but don't think it makes sense for Raid content. As an example DOF. Almost no one ever killed all DOF raid bosses while they where endlevel raids. So it is very unlikely to ever get 24 people spending months sitting at level ~60 to do an achievement. And if only the player but not the raid is not allowed to mentor he can just lie dead in a corner while some friends kill the mobs. I'm also for increasing the drop rates for old heroic content, as you can gain 3-4 levels just running a dungeon once, it would be nice if you could get at least 1/3 of you slots in legendary gear. Also: While I like the idea of leveling gear it should not be the best gear for any slot. I could be nice, but even the fact, that you never need to replace it while leveling, is a huge bonus. Also there should not exist items for to many slots, so that you still need to look for gear for most of your slots. And I would be really careful about adding leveling weapons. currently weapon smith are already in a very bad position. If there would be a way to get a weapon that carries you from 50 to 90 that could be the last nail for the coffin for the weapon smiths.

EvilAstroboy
06-11-2010, 07:54 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>i Disagree, if old heroic and raid content was providing cool items, if QH rewards were highly desired, if the leveling speed was cut down, low level content would probably  revive.</p></blockquote><p>Low level content will never revive. The only way to make this content used is to make it level 90.</p><p>Even a repop of these zones ala Runnyeye: The Gathering would be a nice touch.  High level versions of Soluseks Eye, Cazic Thule, Emerald Halls, Deathtoll, Darathar etc would be pretty awesome.</p>

Cisken
06-11-2010, 08:06 AM
<p>I'm in the same boat as some other people here, started the game halfway through Kunark and of course was curious to see all the content I missed. Knowledge came from sites like Wikia which list all available zones per tier and curiosity grew.</p><p>There are "progression raiding guilds" popping up occasionally with the goal of experiencing the old raid content unmentored - I joined one (Madcap on Crushbone) at the end of 2008 on one of my chars and had a blast. We had full x4 raids of newly created chars level locking on purpose for certain tiers and cleared basically everything from Prismatic 1.0 to MMIS, raiding once a week over the course of about half a year (except DMP, access quest in the way). MC armor being better than most of the fabled raid drops kinda allowed us to do this in the first place, since it was not about farming, but doing stuff once, going back to content a few years old or even seeing it for the first time. Depending on the encounter, the level of challenge was about right the most time. Saw another one of these guild (on AB?) later in 2009, so things like this do exist, albeit rarely.</p><p>Main challenges in my opinion are motivation (why do this instead of endgame?), organization (similar to a regular raid guild), and synchronization (server, playtimes, bringing characters of the same level together and being on the right steps of quests).</p><p>I'm currently in the process of solving the "dungeon problem" for myself - made a tank char with which i plan to tank every heroic zone in lower level content at least once to see the content (wikia and achievements help to see which ones are around). Only problem here so far is having the endurance to spam the channels for more until I get five/six people, healer included. Otherwise, going well, done with Shattered Lands and moving into DoF stuff.</p><p>Class balance is a different issue imo.</p>

Levatino
06-11-2010, 08:11 AM
<p><cite>EvilAstroboy wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>i Disagree, if old heroic and raid content was providing cool items, if QH rewards were highly desired, if the leveling speed was cut down, low level content would probably  revive.</p></blockquote><p>Low level content will never revive. The only way to make this content used is to make it level 90.</p><p>Even a repop of these zones ala Runnyeye: The Gathering would be a nice touch.  High level versions of Soluseks Eye, Cazic Thule, Emerald Halls, Deathtoll, Darathar etc would be pretty awesome.</p></blockquote><p>speak for yourself, there are still low level people playing those zones.</p><p>Sure they can make level 90 using the theme of the old zones but also let the low level zones exist.</p>

Seffrid
06-11-2010, 08:32 AM
<p>I have a few ideas for increasing the use of the older zones, some already covered:-</p><p>First, don't keep raising the level cap so the old zones get further and further behind where most players hang out. There are better ways of advancing characters as has been discussed already.</p><p>Second, even out the levelling so that people don't rush through the huge amount of low/middle content in a flash and then spend ages in the much more limited high content.  No need to alter the overall time needed to hit the cap, just even it out more. </p><p>Third, don't add new content that is reached by travel mechanics only, build it off existing under-used zones so that people have an incentive to revisit them.</p><p>Fourth, don't always hand instant travel to players on a plate, have it so they make their way through under-used zones in order to access the popular ones.</p><p>Fifth, as we're stuck with zoning in the game,  make it work to our advantage. Introduce multiple instances of some zones with different level combat as is done in Age of Conan where you have the choice when zoning of choosing an ordinary or epic version of the zone. That could be applied, for example, to Commonlands and Antonica.</p>

Liyle
06-11-2010, 10:32 AM
<p>This illustrates one of the big disadvantages of having a level based system. There is no real value to it, as each tier is more or less the same as any previous tier with an arbitrary multiplier applied. IMHO the prefered hierarchy would be: Training, Solo Casual, Solo Expert/Duo, Group Casual, Group Expert, Raid Casual and Raid Expert (or something along those lines) for adventuring and crafting (I would add Diplomacy like Vanguard, but...)</p><p>It could still be done if levels 1 - 70 were compressed into a training series that introduces the scope of the game with a taste of each zone, allowing new players and players changing class to develope the necessary knowledge and skills but not taking so much time that it's a PITA to level up a class your raid guild needs, or newbies becoming discouraged due to no one to play with till they get to 90. Experienced players are not always the best thing for noobs... they tend to rush the process not waiting for them to read the dialogs or solve the puzzles, but just run them through the quest at warp speed (so they can hurry up, reach 90 and play what everyone else is playing.)</p>

cuicui
06-11-2010, 11:30 AM
<p><strong>FREE THE ANCESTRAL HOMES OF THE FAYDWER RACES!</strong></p><p>You have three "cities" there that are practically empty.  You have a years worth of GU's if you're smart about rolling it out.</p><p>I have no idea where this falls into the direction of the game, but I would love to see some sort of plan that would bring New Tunaria (Felwith), Kaladim and Ak'Anon back into the fold as cities players can use and visit.  I'm not necessarily advocating player cities, but I wouldn't hate that idea either.  The starting area in Faydwer could stay the same with Kelethin acting more as an outpost. </p><p>Its been several hundred years now, and I'm CERTAIN the refugees in the city of Qeynos are eager to return to their homelands and to start over.  The three involved races, Gnomes, Elves, and Dwarves could form an alliance focused on retaking the cities they once dwelled in. </p><p>In terms of progression, it would make sense to make Kaladim the first city to be retaken.  It is on the coast and technically the first city you reach coming from the Shattered Lands.  You could have simulated battles taking place outside of Kaladim, quests, and missions available to run missions inside of Kaladim to destabilize the occupiers.</p><p>For the next GU, Kaladim has been recaptured and the dwarves are moving back in.  You can do some city type quests to help "rebuild" Kaladim.  Additionally, the battle has now moved to Greater Faydark and the efforts to retake Felwithe.  Similar quests and missions can be done for this as well.  These missions could be to run missions inside New Tunaria, missions between Gnomeland Security to help prepare for the retaking of Ak'Anon, with advanced "spy" missions for them and missions inside Mistmoore Castle to help lessen the hold Mayong has on the politics inside New Tunaria.  In this, you could also up the levels for New Tunaria and/or change the encounters to fit with the theme of the GU.</p><p>The final GU would focus on the retaking of Ak'Anon.  Apply everything done in the previous GU's in as much as missions, raids, etc.</p><p>The result?  Kaladim would be a city to service players along with Ak'Anon.  New Tunaria becomes Felwithe again and becomes a player city with player housing.  This zone is WAY too interesting and visually stimulating to allow it to just sit empty as it is.  Kelethin continues to be more of an outpost with housing for those that choose to stay there. </p>

Dethdlr
06-11-2010, 11:41 AM
<p>I think part of the reason that people don't go back to the old content is that <strong><span style="color: #ff6600; font-size: small;">MENTORING MAKES YOU OVERPOWERED</span></strong>.  Once you mentor down, there is no challenge any more.  I really like idea #2 where you go back to do old content and get items that can be upgraded through the levels that are still useable at level 90.  But if you do this mentored, it's not a challenge with the current mentoring system.  About a year ago, a few guildmates were bringing up some alts and wanted to run the sinking sands instances for AA and XP.  We went in with a level 80 Fury mentored down.  The Fury tanked the zones!  Come on! </p><p>I understand that at level cap you hang out and collect gear upgrades, additional AAs, etc. which are things you don't do at lower levels so that scaling you down still leaves you overpowered but it would be nice if it were more realistic.  If you can take one group, mentor down to 70, pull Vyemm and Alzid prime without splitting them and still beat the encounter, something is just wrong.</p>

Liral
06-11-2010, 12:54 PM
<p>Great post..   I really like what you are proposing...   devs.. pay attention.. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /></p>

SirDinadan
06-11-2010, 02:13 PM
<p>It's really interesting.. a simple topic like 'Reviving Interest in Old Zones' can spur so many different ideas, many mutually exclusive and contradictory.  (I'm intentionally ignoring the requests for devs to work on some other problem instead, as that's not what this thread is about.)</p><p>If you look at the situation only from the point of view of a character levelling up, it's fairly hopeless.  It's difficult to get a good group of 6 non-mentored players at the right level to take on a previous-tier heroic instance.. getting 20 or so for a raid instance with decent gear and spells would be practically impossible.  If you find such a collection of players, hang onto them, as you've found something rare.</p><p>Obviously, the devs decided that one way to spark interest in old heroic zones was to allow self-mentoring, and provide a daily task in one of those older zones, with the reward being a statue house item.  This could be done while levelling, but seems to be primarily aimed at convincing end-game players to revisit older content.  But that's obviously not a solution to the real problem.. mentored players blast through those heroic zones without blinking, and certainly don't need a group to do it.  I did them all.. once.  Just like I went back and killed all the raid bosses once, to get the pedestal house item.  It didn't help any sense of community on my server, and once the rewards stopped being new, I stopped.</p><p>There are only three reasons why I, as a level 90, would routinely re-visit older zones without being asked by a guildmember. </p><p>1.  If the quest reward was a mark.  Another daily group quest in older heroic zones, with effort equivalent to the solo mark quest, might be nice.  If there's a goal to enrich the community, require the person zoning the group in to be of the correct level, and auto-mentor the rest to them.  (Most of those mechanics were added during the effort to stop grey shards, so it should be possible.)</p><p>2.  If the quest reward was some nice appearance gear.  The one reason I like to run Labs even today is all the nice-looking appearance items with effects.  Treat the final chest of the heroic zone like the EoF legendary class sets, where one person per run gets an item they need.  If you're mentored, you get something glowy or sparkly you can use for appearance.  If you're at level, you get a legendary armor piece that also happens to be glowy/sparkly.</p><p>3.  If the quest reward was a fair amount of guild status, for older raid zones.  One of the most underutilized and unloved sections of the game are the 'city guild raids' that, once upon a time, was designed to help small guilds learn how to raid.  Now, all of the previous tier raid zones basically should qualify for that function.  Most of the nameds give some status, but a good-sized bonus amount for completing a daily city quest would be incentive for me as a guild leader to complete them.  I would definitely want to use the existing 'portal door' method, with no access quests needed, to simplfy starting up a run.</p><p>Or some hybrid of these.. a city guild raid currency reward that could be used to buy appearance gear or guild amenities, sold for guild status, etc.</p>

Ristan
06-11-2010, 02:46 PM
<p>OP, great ideas.</p><p>My idea:</p><p>Leave the lowbie raid zones alone, let them stay whatever teir they are.</p><p>However, make a t9 (or whatever the current cap is) Heroic version of the zone.  I think it'd be pretty cool to go in and do a very difficult heroic version of emerald halls or mistmoore inner sanctum.</p><p>Instead of fighting mayong maybe you fight one of his upper leader guys, wouldn't need to change any other names then maybe the bosses of the zones.  Use scripting for the names, make them difficult zones with decent loot.</p><p>Emerald halls, Deathtoll, MMIS, Freethinkers, Throne of new tunaria, Shimmering Citadel.  All those old raid zones, thats my idea.  Make them hard heroic zones.  But still give the option to do the lower level raids when you click on the door.</p>

BChizzle
06-11-2010, 02:53 PM
<p>Why not just make old content drop seals or whatever the current raid currency is if it is con then up the seal cost of items?</p>

BChizzle
06-11-2010, 02:55 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>OP, great ideas.</p><p>My idea:</p><p>Leave the lowbie raid zones alone, let them stay whatever teir they are.</p><p>However, make a t9 (or whatever the current cap is) Heroic version of the zone.  I think it'd be pretty cool to go in and do a very difficult heroic version of emerald halls or mistmoore inner sanctum.</p><p>Instead of fighting mayong maybe you fight one of his upper leader guys, wouldn't need to change any other names then maybe the bosses of the zones.  Use scripting for the names, make them difficult zones with decent loot.</p><p>Emerald halls, Deathtoll, MMIS, Freethinkers, Throne of new tunaria, Shimmering Citadel.  All those old raid zones, thats my idea.  Make them hard heroic zones.  But still give the option to do the lower level raids when you click on the door.</p></blockquote><p>I agree, it would be nice if they made old raids into current teir heroic zones.</p>

lollipop
06-11-2010, 04:19 PM
<p><cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>OP, great ideas.</p><p>My idea:</p><p>Leave the lowbie raid zones alone, let them stay whatever teir they are.</p><p>However, make a t9 (or whatever the current cap is) Heroic version of the zone.  I think it'd be pretty cool to go in and do a very difficult heroic version of emerald halls or mistmoore inner sanctum.</p><p>Instead of fighting mayong maybe you fight one of his upper leader guys, wouldn't need to change any other names then maybe the bosses of the zones.  Use scripting for the names, make them difficult zones with decent loot.</p><p>Emerald halls, Deathtoll, MMIS, Freethinkers, Throne of new tunaria, Shimmering Citadel.  All those old raid zones, thats my idea.  Make them hard heroic zones.  But still give the option to do the lower level raids when you click on the door.</p></blockquote><p>I agree, it would be nice if they made old raids into current teir heroic zones.</p></blockquote><p>i would love the old tier content to scale up like tso heroic zones. Scaleing raid zones would be great. Leave them as raids tho. I would loave to go rekill some of the old raid miobs as current tier! It would also add more options for entry level raiders.</p>

Chock
06-11-2010, 05:43 PM
<p><cite>cuicui wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>New Tunaria becomes Felwithe again and becomes a player city with player housing.  This zone is WAY too interesting and visually stimulating to allow it to just sit empty as it is.  Kelethin continues to be more of an outpost with housing for those that choose to stay there. </p></blockquote><p>I adore New Tunaria and would betray to that city from Kelethin in a New York minute if given a chance.  I think New Tunaria is by far the most visually arresting spaces in EQ2 and is virtually emtpy of quested content.  I would love to have this place revived with new content and I would be there instantly.</p>

Boyar
06-11-2010, 05:45 PM
<p>While I think it's great to have the great, old content better utilized, I much prefer the idea of zones that are scalable upwards rather than require they be run at their original level.</p><p>Yes, mentoring does tend to trivialize a great deal of content, but having game-affecting achievements that can only be attained while originally levelling up would be a serious blow to all the veteran characters in the world. So far, the scaling up of zones seems to have done pretty well, and I would love to see it broadened to older zones, including raids. I think it'd be awesome if some of the contested raid mobs had a way to scale up their level and effectiveness, perhaps as a hail option for group or raid leaders when approaching a gray mob to set its tier for as long as it is continuously engaged by that force.</p><p>While I like the idea of nifty rewards from the old zones, gear really can't be allowed to stay equipment-worthy past its native teir. There have been enough problems already with Mythical weapons making new content useless. Equipment churn is vital to make a game continuously compelling; there always has to be something new to replace the old. Non-combat items, however, are very well suited to this sort of thing; appearance items, illusions/special effects, house/guildhall items etc. are fine level-neutral rewards. While I wouldn't expect a comprehensive loot table across all zones across all levels, even just a chance at masters appropriate to the tier of engagement would be excellent (perhaps no-trade smart-loot masters if you're worried about flooding the market). Bonus AA for defeating the mob/zone at matching strength would be a fine inducement as well.</p><p>I really do miss the fun and the beauty of some of the old content (Solusek Eye being my particular favorite) and I think it would engage max level players more effectively if it could be levelled up rather than requiring them to level down.</p>

Captain Apple Darkberry
06-12-2010, 04:02 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have an idea.. fix the messed up state of lower lvl items.  I mean really.. what's wrong with this picture..</p><p>Vraksakin's Talisman,  lvl 68 fable neck item, dropped from Vraksakin a lvl 72 ^^^epic x4 in Temple of Scale.  Stats are +8 each str/sta/agi/wis/int,  +80 health and +80 power,  +284 each nox/elem/arcane.</p><p>My alt is currently wearing a lvl 66 treasure neck piece , <span>Bellywhumper Necklace of Assurity, which is a quest reward from a quest in KP and the stats are </span><span><span>+10 sta</span> <span>+10 agi</span> <span>+20 wis</span> <span>+30 int, </span></span><span><span>+90 health</span> <span>+90 power, </span></span><span><span>+690 vs elemental</span> <span>+414 vs noxious, +4 focus, 8 in-combat power regen, and Benevolent Alacrity 1 (which </span></span><span>Reduces cast time of beneficial spells by 1 percent.)</span></p><p>I realize that they come from 2 different expansions, but it just doesn't make any sense to me for the differences to be so great in that a lvl 66 treasure piece is much better than a lvl 68 fable piece dropped from an epic.  It doesn't "pay" to do the older content in opinion except for one run through for the AA xp.</p></blockquote><p>This...</p><p>And honestly, the only way that they will ever get rid of the rush to 90 is to get rid of Refer-a-Friend.</p><p>It is a twisty road...a 90 mentoring down is god at the lower levels, but if they nerf mentoring too much, then there will be even less people in the lower tiers to group.  I prefer the idea of increasing the rewards for doing the content at lower tiers, but I really don't like the idea of it being lost to you if you outlevel it.  With the xp curve in this game you could easily screw yourself out of AA or good gear if that were the case of th OP's proposal.  Just make mentored toons not quite so [Removed for Content] powerful...my guess is that the mechanism for scaling is just as unintelligently designed as the itemization is for this game.</p><p>Yes, there have been multiple expansions...but it really seems like each expansion had trash (or handcrafted gear) that was worlds above the fabled gear from the previous expansion.  That is really...<fill in the blank with a synonym for stupid>.  That leads to a gear imbalance that new players can't make sense of, and surely affect the scaling mechanism used for mentoring.</p>

Pitt Hammerfi
06-13-2010, 12:49 PM
<p><cite>gourdon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>However, there is a simpler solution.  Make the game up to level 50 or so free to play</p></blockquote><p>Thats probably the best solution i've ever heard in the entire history of everyquest 2.</p><p>Make the game FTP up to lvl 50, you would get a massive amount of new players, and advertising and word of mouth.</p><p>Open the cash shop to them, after being addicted from the 1-50 content they should want to continue thier adventures into the new lands...</p>

Alvane
06-13-2010, 02:08 PM
<p>At level when these areas were basically new content, the rewards were really useful. However, over time with the upgrades of gear in starter areas, the rewards aren't so good anymore even though the content is fantastic.</p><p>I've done some of the raids when they were new content. DoF and KoS raid items were highly sought after. Later characters of mine at level, couldn't even use the items dropped from Lockjaw, Godking or Ahket Aken/Al'Afaz. The gear they had was better. However, the Cloud Mount timeline of KoS dropped some very nice gear and upgraded one of my characters' items.</p><p>I took 3 characters through parts of SoS (KoS - TT) at level within the past year-2 years. There was nothing that was useful other than transmuting or selling to vendor - and of course the page drops for WU's book! When my first character went through SoS when KoS was a new xpac - the gear was great and an upgrade. And the Claymore line was long - but fun to do with guildies - att of xpac newness and even into EoF xpac release because the rewards transcended long afterwards from level 70 and for priests to 80!</p><p>So, IMO, if there can be a gradual upgrade of items from instances and zones to meet the same in other areas - that would be great. Right now gear drops are like spikes. They start high, then deteriorate, then jump up again, then go down in stats and resists and procs. They need to be on a more even keel as a character levels up.</p>

MurFalad
06-17-2010, 08:37 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think part of the reason that people don't go back to the old content is that <strong><span style="font-size: small; color: #ff6600;">MENTORING MAKES YOU OVERPOWERED</span></strong>.  Once you mentor down, there is no challenge any more.  I really like idea #2 where you go back to do old content and get items that can be upgraded through the levels that are still useable at level 90.  But if you do this mentored, it's not a challenge with the current mentoring system.  About a year ago, a few guildmates were bringing up some alts and wanted to run the sinking sands instances for AA and XP.  We went in with a level 80 Fury mentored down.  The Fury tanked the zones!  Come on! </p><p>I understand that at level cap you hang out and collect gear upgrades, additional AAs, etc. which are things you don't do at lower levels so that scaling you down still leaves you overpowered but it would be nice if it were more realistic.  If you can take one group, mentor down to 70, pull Vyemm and Alzid prime without splitting them and still beat the encounter, something is just wrong.</p></blockquote><p>Yep I agree totally and its something that puts me off of mentoring often as it can make the gameplay as engaging as grinding grey content.  Its not far off then being able to just do all the content grey for XP and loot, hence I really would like to see this fixed.</p><p>And to reply to others about the idea of having a hotzone perhaps at lower levels, I agree that making it give extra XP wouldn't be good, even better loot drops doesn't sound a big draw, but say 30% extra AA for questing in Zek could draw in the crowds.</p>

Alvane
06-18-2010, 12:20 PM
<p>I, too agree and would be a fantastic marketing tool - Shattered Lands (1-50) can be free with a 2 week trial then a subscription. Otherwise, you can see a lot of peeps playing in those levels only just like many alts do! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" /></p>