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View Full Version : id pay 25 dollars for a class change potion


Ravaan
05-22-2010, 09:30 PM
<p>let the character stay the same level/AA, have to get their own gear and weapons. I would buy one in a heartbeat as i don't have the desire to play through the AA grind again.</p>

ssumthing
05-22-2010, 09:54 PM
<p>Good gawd no. Then you'd have way too many people out there who didn't genuinely know their class and how to play it. I think it takes leveling up proper to really know how your class is played. I can feel your pain for having to do the level up process all over again, but no... just no...</p>

Guy De Alsace
05-22-2010, 10:14 PM
<p>Dont think its a good idea cos you would have people flip flopping between whatever is flavour of the month all the time instead of making good out of what they have.</p>

Crismorn
05-22-2010, 10:16 PM
<p><cite>ssumthing wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Good gawd no. Then you'd have way too many people out there who didn't genuinely know their class and how to play it. I think it takes leveling up proper to really know how your class is played. I can feel your pain for having to do the level up process all over again, but no... just no...</p></blockquote><p>You do not learn anything from going level 1-90 in eq2.</p>

Sar
05-22-2010, 10:21 PM
<p>...</p>

Guy De Alsace
05-22-2010, 10:39 PM
<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>ssumthing wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Good gawd no. Then you'd have way too many people out there who didn't genuinely know their class and how to play it. I think it takes leveling up proper to really know how your class is played. I can feel your pain for having to do the level up process all over again, but no... just no...</p></blockquote><p>You do not learn anything from going level 1-90 in eq2.</p></blockquote><p>I'm sorry but lol. In one session I found out what toughness was, that Int no longer mattered to my class after the revamp, what potency does, how to get to Paineel, which rares applied to my class, that SF was more forgiving than TSO, what Marks of Manaar were...all in the first ten minutes of resubbing and getting to sundered frontier for the first time. This was at level 80.</p><p>Prior to that I discovered that my Ranger could use more than one poison at once, was able to use chain mail (i kid you not), was SUPPOSED to be using his bow and not melee all the time. I learnt about jousting, weapon speeds, decent equipment that would help me and not just look good in the grind to 50 then 60 etc...</p><p>Thats on two toons. I learn something new about this game literally every single day.</p>

Crismorn
05-22-2010, 10:54 PM
<p><cite>Guy De Alsace wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>ssumthing wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Good gawd no. Then you'd have way too many people out there who didn't genuinely know their <strong>class</strong> and how to play it. I think it takes leveling up proper to really know how your class is played. I can feel your pain for having to do the level up process all over again, but no... just no...</p></blockquote><p>You do not learn anything from going level 1-90 in eq2.</p></blockquote><p>I'm sorry but lol. In one session I found out what toughness was, that Int no longer mattered to my class after the revamp, what potency does, how to get to Paineel, which rares applied to my class, that SF was more forgiving than TSO, what Marks of Manaar were...all in the first ten minutes of resubbing and getting to sundered frontier for the first time. This was at level 80.</p><p>Prior to that I discovered that my Ranger could use more than one poison at once, was able to use chain mail (i kid you not), was SUPPOSED to be using his bow and not melee all the time. I learnt about jousting, weapon speeds, decent equipment that would help me and not just look good in the grind to 50 then 60 etc...</p><p>Thats on two toons. I learn something new about this game literally every single day.</p></blockquote><p>You could learn all of that by reading forums, he was talking about learning how to play his <strong>class</strong> which can only be done at cap.</p><p>I can see how that statement would be confusing for most of the players who read these forums.</p>

Jrral
05-22-2010, 11:03 PM
<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You do not learn anything from going level 1-90 in eq2.</p></blockquote><p>ROFL.</p><p>Yes, you do learn a lot. You learn the basics of your class. For a tank, for instance, you learn how to pull mobs and how to peel what you want off without bringing the whole room. If you're grouping with even one experienced player, you'll learn things like how to turn and position mobs, how to watch for the signs a DPS class is starting to pull aggro off you and how to get the mob back. You won't learn the strategies of the high-end mobs until you get there, but there's a lot to learn that isn't all about the top end. Nor will you learn most of it in T1 and T2, but then you'll solo through those tiers so fast that if you blink you'll miss entire levels going by. But in T3-T8 you'll learn many things about your class and how to play it.</p><p>If, that is, you're interested in learning at all. Nobody and nothing can teach a thing to someone who thinks they don't need to learn, or worse that there's nothing to learn. All you can do is avoid that sort, because they aren't going to magically change just because they hit the level cap.</p>

Lethe5683
05-23-2010, 01:09 AM
<p><cite>ssumthing wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think it takes leveling up proper to really know how your class is played.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #993366;">Only for some people.</span></p>

Priddles
05-23-2010, 01:39 AM
<p>While some people are beyond hope for any sort of neural activity, for most people it does greatly help to level up through the class and see how abilities are used as they get them, instead of having 500 abilities to choose from at level 90 and no idea what any of them do.</p>

Crismorn
05-23-2010, 01:53 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You do not learn anything from going level 1-90 in eq2.</p></blockquote><p>ROFL.</p><p>Yes, you do learn a lot. You learn the basics of your class. For a tank, for instance, you learn how to pull mobs and how to peel what you want off without bringing the whole room. If you're grouping with even one experienced player, you'll learn things like how to turn and position mobs, how to watch for the signs a DPS class is starting to pull aggro off you and how to get the mob back. You won't learn the strategies of the high-end mobs until you get there, but there's a lot to learn that isn't all about the top end. Nor will you learn most of it in T1 and T2, but then you'll solo through those tiers so fast that if you blink you'll miss entire levels going by. But in T3-T8 you'll learn many things about your class and how to play it.</p><p>If, that is, you're interested in learning at all. Nobody and nothing can teach a thing to someone who thinks they don't need to learn, or worse that there's nothing to learn. All you can do is avoid that sort, because they aren't going to magically change just because they hit the level cap.</p></blockquote><p>And you will re-learn all of that at cap because its an entirely different game.</p><p>Oh I know full well that there is a great deal to learn in this game, at the cap, when you have all your abilities and you can begin to actually learn how to play your class properly.</p><p>Like I said previously I can see how that statement is confusing for most of the people who post here, but its true nonetheless</p>

Notsovilepriest
05-23-2010, 03:47 AM
<p>Powerleveling is more prevalent than ever, Myself, I took an Inq and in just over 1 day playtime hit 90. Granted I had played as an Inq before, but there is nothing you learn really at lower levels that will help you at cap. Like Davionx has said, the game is completely different at max level before. This potion will not change anything with people not knowing their classes. If a person understands the game in general, including the mechanics, they will do well with any class after reading the abilities over and just messing around with it for a few hours.</p>

Jrral
05-23-2010, 03:56 AM
<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>And you will re-learn all of that at cap because its an entirely different game.</p></blockquote><p>Or you won't learn it at all. Before SF I ran into way too many level 80 scouts and mages who have <em>no idea whatsoever</em> how to manage their aggro. They'd unload with every heavy hitter in their arsenal, completely ignoring the hate meter, then wonder why the mob's on them instead of the tank. This when they know they're raid-geared and running with a tank who's level 78 wearing quested and mastercrafted gear. I'd see tanks who, when running with a non-raiding healer, would pull an entire room of triple-ups just like they would if they were running with their raid-geared healers and then wonder why the group wiped. In short, I ran into a lot of players who apparently had no clue whatsoever how to play their class in anything <em>except</em> an end-game raid-geared environment.</p>

Celelyris
05-23-2010, 04:24 AM
<p>Betray, because there's no way they're going to let you change your archetype and keep anything. </p><p>Just use the recruit a friend invitation system, powerlevel a friend, spouse or child on an account you own or dual box by mentoring and have the second on auto-follow to get there. Then pay the amount to move the character to your main account. I can get 1-80 in less than 2 weeks solo with 4 hours of play a day. Much less 1-90 in a week if I push it. </p>

EasternKing
05-23-2010, 05:42 AM
<p><cite>Celelyris wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Betray, because there's no way they're going to let you change your archetype and keep anything. </p><p>Just use the recruit a friend invitation system, powerlevel a friend, spouse or child on an account you own or dual box by mentoring and have the second on auto-follow to get there. Then pay the amount to move the character to your main account. I can get 1-80 in less than 2 weeks solo with 4 hours of play a day. Much less 1-90 in a week if I push it. </p></blockquote><p>The issue is not adventure leveling, the issue is the godforsaken amount of time and sheer mind numbing quest grinding you have to do to get AA. yes you can move the slider as you go, you still wont get more than 140AA before you hit cap, leaving you 110 AA to grind from quests, simply because you get so much more AA exp.</p><p>Grinding mobs with the slider at 100% needs to be viable.</p>

Lethe5683
05-23-2010, 06:32 AM
<p><cite>EasternKing wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Celelyris wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Betray, because there's no way they're going to let you change your archetype and keep anything. </p><p>Just use the recruit a friend invitation system, powerlevel a friend, spouse or child on an account you own or dual box by mentoring and have the second on auto-follow to get there. Then pay the amount to move the character to your main account. I can get 1-80 in less than 2 weeks solo with 4 hours of play a day. Much less 1-90 in a week if I push it. </p></blockquote><p>The issue is not adventure leveling, the issue is the godforsaken amount of time and sheer mind numbing quest grinding you have to do to get AA. yes you can move the slider as you go, you still wont get more than 140AA before you hit cap, leaving you 110 AA to grind from quests, simply because you get so much more AA exp.</p><p>Grinding mobs with the slider at 100% needs to be viable.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #993366;">This is exactly the problem, if I didn't worry about AA I could level 10 characters to 90 in less time than it takes to get one to 90 and 250 AAs.</span></p>

Rami
05-23-2010, 06:37 AM
<p>Is AB down again? I can't get back in game <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Nightshade
05-23-2010, 07:43 AM
<p>I think I remember seeing a developer say this is impossible due to a number of class-related variables. I'm always speculative of the "it's hard-coded" phrase, but it makes sense in this instance.</p><p>If it is/were possible I think that it should not be a purchasable item, but rather a rarely granted petition option for people in unique situations. Otherwise the term 'Flavor of the Month' comes to mind. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /></p>

Guy De Alsace
05-23-2010, 09:48 AM
<p>Thats the most bizarre statement - you learn nothing from your class unless you are at cap? Its just an absurd statement to make!</p><p>If I took a class I'd never played at 90 I wouldnt have a clue where to start. If I'd played one all the way to 90 then I would know the class intimately.</p><p>If I learn to drive then someone gives me a formula one car I'd likely go and kill myself in short order. If I'd risen through the formulas to drive that same car I'd be a professional and competitive driver.</p>

erin
05-23-2010, 10:08 AM
<p><cite>Guy De Alsace wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Thats the most bizarre statement - you learn nothing from your class unless you are at cap? Its just an absurd statement to make!</p><p>If I took a class I'd never played at 90 I wouldnt have a clue where to start. If I'd played one all the way to 90 then I would know the class intimately.</p><p>If I learn to drive then someone gives me a formula one car I'd likely go and kill myself in short order. If I'd risen through the formulas to drive that same car I'd be a professional and competitive driver.</p></blockquote><p>Its really somewhere in between though.  If you'd been driving a sedan for 20 years, and then someone gave you their pickup truck to drive, you would figure it out in a few minutes.  If you were a good driver in your sedan, you'd be a good driver in their pickup.</p><p>The point some of the elitists are making in this thread (and yes, the elitist attitude comes through in spades) is that a good player can play any class, because they've seen it played.  And that the game changes so much at cap (for end game at least) that anything you learn before cap is negligible.</p><p>Its somewhere in between.  Most players can pick up a level 90 character and figure it out in a few days.  But quite likely they won't use that character to its greatest abilities.  But can they be average?  Sure.  If they are hardcore types that pay attention to every nuance of the game, they might even be above average on a level 90 they've never played.</p><p>Most players would struggle to become average in this situation.</p>

Skull_Splitter
05-23-2010, 12:28 PM
<p style="margin-left: 6pt; margin-right: 6pt;"><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: #ffffff; font-size: 9pt;">A simple thought is that for many EQ2 players it's not their first mmorpg.</span></p><p style="margin-left: 6pt; margin-right: 6pt;"><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: #ffffff; font-size: 9pt;">Many have played other classes in other games and many play multiple classes in EQ2.</span></p><p style="margin-left: 6pt; margin-right: 6pt;"><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: #ffffff; font-size: 9pt;">It's not that difficult to learn to play a character.</span></p><p style="margin-left: 6pt; margin-right: 6pt;"><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: #ffffff; font-size: 9pt;">Heck (annoying) how the gaming populous has dumbed games down to this very aspect.</span></p><p style="margin-left: 6pt; margin-right: 6pt;"><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: #ffffff; font-size: 9pt;">LFG need "tank, healer, DPS, support..."</span></p><p style="margin-left: 6pt; margin-right: 6pt;"><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: #ffffff; font-size: 9pt;">The basics of this have gone on for decades since D&D classes.  </span></p><p style="margin-left: 6pt; margin-right: 6pt;"><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: #ffffff; font-size: 9pt;">But we've all seen the arguments of what sub class is best/better....</span></p><p style="margin-left: 6pt; margin-right: 6pt;"><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: #000000; font-size: 9pt;"><span style="color: #ffffff;">And I laugh/cry all day long at people that just can't handle not having a "proper <span style="color: #ffffff;">group</span></span><span style="color: #ffffff;">."</span></span></p>

Rahatmattata
05-23-2010, 12:48 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think I remember seeing a developer say this is impossible due to a number of class-related variables. I'm always speculative of the "it's hard-coded" phrase, but it makes sense in this instance.</p><p>If it is/were possible I think that it should not be a purchasable item, but rather a rarely granted petition option for people in unique situations. Otherwise the term 'Flavor of the Month' comes to mind. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>It may be a costly PITA to implement, but it's not impossible. If they had enough time and money they could re-write the entire game from the ground up, starting with a single blank page and a flashing cursor.</p>

Wingrider01
05-23-2010, 01:09 PM
<p><cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think I remember seeing a developer say this is impossible due to a number of class-related variables. I'm always speculative of the "it's hard-coded" phrase, but it makes sense in this instance.</p><p>If it is/were possible I think that it should not be a purchasable item, but rather a rarely granted petition option for people in unique situations. Otherwise the term 'Flavor of the Month' comes to mind. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>It may be a costly PITA to implement, but it's not impossible. If they had enough time and money they could re-write the entire game from the ground up, starting with a single blank page and a flashing cursor.</p></blockquote><p>No ROI, unless the cost of class change makes up for it - 100.00 - 200.00 US would problably be a starting point and a double of the subscription costs</p>

Amphibia
05-23-2010, 01:19 PM
<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>ssumthing wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Good gawd no. Then you'd have way too many people out there who didn't genuinely know their class and how to play it. I think it takes leveling up proper to really know how your class is played. I can feel your pain for having to do the level up process all over again, but no... just no...</p></blockquote><p>You do not learn anything from going level 1-90 in eq2.</p></blockquote><p>This.</p>

Ravaan
05-23-2010, 01:43 PM
<p>I just shake my head when someone says people wont know how to play the class. you swear EQ2 is rocket science or something, the game really isn't that hard. like some have said you don't learn anything from 1-90 especially since most spend the majority of their time soloing through the crappy, mundane boring quests to get AA (yes AA is a major problem in this game).</p>

Alenna
05-23-2010, 02:02 PM
<p><cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think I remember seeing a developer say this is impossible due to a number of class-related variables. I'm always speculative of the "it's hard-coded" phrase, but it makes sense in this instance.</p><p>If it is/were possible I think that it should not be a purchasable item, but rather a rarely granted petition option for people in unique situations. Otherwise the term 'Flavor of the Month' comes to mind. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>It may be a costly PITA to implement, but it's not impossible. If they had enough time and money they could re-write the entire game from the ground up, starting with a single blank page and a flashing cursor.</p></blockquote><p>but then would it be EQ2?</p>

Jrral
05-23-2010, 02:15 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think I remember seeing a developer say this is impossible due to a number of class-related variables. I'm always speculative of the "it's hard-coded" phrase, but it makes sense in this instance.</p></blockquote><p>What I heard from the devs is that originally class changes were infeasible because the character data format was literally different for each class. The only changes possible were between the pairs that your were originally allowed to betray between, because those were the only pairs where the character data was compatible. So when changing between a berserker and a guardian it was just a matter of flipping some flags in the character data and replacing spell/CA items, but to change between a berserker and a paladin you'd literally have to create an entirely new character from scratch to get the data format right and then destroy the old character. Except that because of the way the database worked, you'd have to destroy the old character first, then create the new character using the old character's spot in the database. Of course once you've destroyed the old character you've lost everything about it (owned items, name, AA points, XP, etc.), so how are you going to recreate it? It was probably technically possible, but it was a huge amount of work and even more work to make it reliable and eliminate any possibility of losing anything if something went wrong (eg. someone trying to create a new character with that name in the window between destroying the old character and fully creating the new one).</p><p>Now, all of the above is probably subject to change, and I'm pretty sure the devs are working on getting things to the point where class changes are possible. But they don't want a constant stream of "Are we there yet? Are we there yet?", so the official position'll probably remain "It can't be done." until they've got it pretty much finished and working reliably.</p><p>And even then they may not admit to it. Even if they get it technically working, there's issues. For one, it'd be a bad thing from a community and balance standpoint to let people level up to cap in a solo-friendly class and then switch over to a solo-unfriendly but more desirable class with level and such intact. But if you don't allow that, if you (as with tradeskill class changes) reset level back to an early point, what do you do about things like quests? You don't want to leave them all in the journal as completed, that'd make it a pain to level up the new class. But you  probably don't want to delete them across the board, some quests aren't in game anymore and people are often proud of having those quests in their journals and/or having the rewards from them. All of that's resolvable, but <em>how</em> exactly to resolve it needs to be figured out before class changes go in-game.</p>

Alenna
05-23-2010, 02:30 PM
<p><cite>Ravaan wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I just shake my head when someone says people wont know how to play the class. you swear EQ2 is rocket science or something, the game really isn't that hard. like some have said you don't learn anything from 1-90 especially since most spend the majority of their time soloing through the crappy, mundane boring quests to get AA (yes AA is a major problem in this game).</p></blockquote><p>Hmm would I know how to play a Ranger if I hadn't taken her through 1-90? yes.  Could I play her so well that even with the nerfs managed topped the parse in one fight while raiding with guildies the other day(granted we are a very casual guild)? Nope that took me learning what CAs helped the best what poisens and equipment were best for my class. how much damage would pull the aggro off my tank took me playing from 1-90 so I could get a feel for the different situations I'd find myself in. All tanks are not the same. for SK, and the tanks where the players knew their class I can use harder hitting CAs for classess or tanks not as well equipped as myself yeah I can pull the aggro off end up dieing(I don't expect the healer to heal my sorry behind if I make that mistake) so I have learned to gaige when to hit and when not to and that wasn't by having someone give me a level 90 Ranger when I started. it was through playing her and putting her into different situations what she could and couldn't do and yes even the  solo grinding, and mundane quests helped to teach me that.</p><p>And the  main thing for me is would I have had as much <strong>FUN</strong> with my Ranger if she had just been handed to me at 90? Nope that also took playing her from 1-90 and developing her to be a unique toon who has a story to tell from all the adventures she went on while leveling.</p>

Notsovilepriest
05-23-2010, 02:38 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ravaan wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I just shake my head when someone says people wont know how to play the class. you swear EQ2 is rocket science or something, the game really isn't that hard. like some have said you don't learn anything from 1-90 especially since most spend the majority of their time soloing through the crappy, mundane boring quests to get AA (yes AA is a major problem in this game).</p></blockquote><p>Hmm would I know how to play a Ranger if I hadn't taken her through 1-90? yes.  Could I play her so well that even with the nerfs managed topped the parse in one fight while raiding with guildies the other day(granted we are a very casual guild)? Nope that took me learning what CAs helped the best what poisens and equipment were best for my class. how much damage would pull the aggro off my tank took me playing from 1-90 so I could get a feel for the different situations I'd find myself in. All tanks are not the same. for SK, and the tanks where the players knew their class I can use harder hitting CAs for classess or tanks not as well equipped as myself yeah I can pull the aggro off end up dieing(I don't expect the healer to heal my sorry behind if I make that mistake) so I have learned to gaige when to hit and when not to and that wasn't by having someone give me a level 90 Ranger when I started. it was through playing her and putting her into different situations what she could and couldn't do and yes even the  solo grinding, and mundane quests helped to teach me that.</p><p>And the  main thing for me is would I have had as much FUN with my Ranger if she had just been handed to me at 90? Nope that also took playing her from 1-90 and developing her to be a unique toon who has a story to tell from all the adventures she went on while leveling.</p></blockquote><p>You can get max efficency casting orders and CA rotations from forums and still top a parse if you understand mechanics(which includes how to gear your toon)</p>

Eridu
05-23-2010, 02:41 PM
<p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif; color: #339966;">I'd like it if they'd just allow people to change adventure class by going back to level 1 or 9 or some such. My sage who's all tradeskill, mara, odus etc factioned; done it's crafter quests; collected all the sometimes insanely priced recipe books, hates being a coercer and would much rather be a mystic. <span style="color: #008000;"> </span></span><span style="font-size: small; font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif; color: #339966;">I could delete and re-roll it as a mystic but all that work, and as with AA's much of the crafting stuff isn't just leveling, it's faction and quests now, not to mention all the Live Event etc goodies.  </span></p><p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif; color: #339966;">It'd be happy happy stuff if this could be done.</span></p>

JackBurtonBTLC
05-23-2010, 03:01 PM
<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You do not learn anything from going level 1-90 in eq2.</p></blockquote><p>Thats not true at all... experienced players who have played the game through and know the lay of the zones, the routes,  IMO are better players than those that blindly stick to the guy in front of them and spam three or four keys for every fight and rely on a few good players to do everything for them. You know the types, they have the level 90 toons, but don't Really know how to play them...</p>

Notsovilepriest
05-23-2010, 03:19 PM
<p><cite>JackBurtonBTLC wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You do not learn anything from going level 1-90 in eq2.</p></blockquote><p>Thats not true at all... experienced players who have played the game through and know the lay of the zones, the routes,  IMO are better players than those that blindly stick to the guy in front of them and spam three or four keys for every fight and rely on a few good players to do everything for them. You know the types, they have the level 90 toons, but don't Really know how to play them...</p></blockquote><p>Thats because they are lazy bad players, and has nothing to do with leveling, leveling does nothing especially since it's now almost exclusively a solo thing.</p>

Alenna
05-23-2010, 03:20 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ravaan wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I just shake my head when someone says people wont know how to play the class. you swear EQ2 is rocket science or something, the game really isn't that hard. like some have said you don't learn anything from 1-90 especially since most spend the majority of their time soloing through the crappy, mundane boring quests to get AA (yes AA is a major problem in this game).</p></blockquote><p>Hmm would I know how to play a Ranger if I hadn't taken her through 1-90? yes.  Could I play her so well that even with the nerfs managed topped the parse in one fight while raiding with guildies the other day(granted we are a very casual guild)? Nope that took me learning what CAs helped the best what poisens and equipment were best for my class. how much damage would pull the aggro off my tank took me playing from 1-90 so I could get a feel for the different situations I'd find myself in. All tanks are not the same. for SK, and the tanks where the players knew their class I can use harder hitting CAs for classess or tanks not as well equipped as myself yeah I can pull the aggro off end up dieing(I don't expect the healer to heal my sorry behind if I make that mistake) so I have learned to gaige when to hit and when not to and that wasn't by having someone give me a level 90 Ranger when I started. it was through playing her and putting her into different situations what she could and couldn't do and yes even the  solo grinding, and mundane quests helped to teach me that.</p><p>And the  main thing for me is would I have had as much FUN with my Ranger if she had just been handed to me at 90? Nope that also took playing her from 1-90 and developing her to be a unique toon who has a story to tell from all the adventures she went on while leveling.</p></blockquote><p>You can get max efficency casting orders and CA rotations from forums and still top a parse if you understand mechanics(which includes how to gear your toon)</p></blockquote><p>actually i did learn basic information but until I was in the different situations during the game it was not internalized. You also missed the main point of my post I would not have had as much <strong>fun</strong> if I hadn't played her from 1-90. and isnt' that the main reason we play this game?</p>

Sar
05-23-2010, 03:25 PM
<p>...</p>

Neiloch
05-23-2010, 03:30 PM
<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>ssumthing wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Good gawd no. Then you'd have way too many people out there who didn't genuinely know their class and how to play it. I think it takes leveling up proper to really know how your class is played. I can feel your pain for having to do the level up process all over again, but no... just no...</p></blockquote><p>You do not learn anything from going level 1-90 in eq2.</p></blockquote><p>Statement should be more along the lines of:</p><p>Theres nothing you can learn 1-89 that you can't learn at 90. But there is stuff you can ONLY learn at 90 that you CAN'T learn at 1-89.</p><p>I'm not defending putting the potion in or not, people just need to realize the ol' 'level your character up yourself' holds almost ZERO weight these days, no matter how much pride you take in doing that work yourself. Leveling up ONE character to 90 will teach them some stuff about older zones I suppose, but again that's not really needed once your at the cap. Any old stuff you wouldd need to know for the cap would be quickly learned anyway.</p><p>You list all these mistakes people make at lower levels or at the cap because they got PL'd, I see people make those same mistakes that have raided for months on the same exact character. Unfortunately some people just plain suck and will never get better, even if they leveled up their character slowly and took their time. If they suck purely because they got PL'd or 'acquired' their character, that will fade away shortly, a month tops.</p>

Alvane
05-23-2010, 03:46 PM
<p><cite>Ravaan wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>let the character stay the same level/AA, have to get their own gear and weapons. I would buy one in a heartbeat as i don't have the desire to play through the AA grind again.</p></blockquote><p>This fantasy is a good one! Gave me a big ol' smile. Ya, I can understand pwr leveling, then grinding AAs instead of working the AA circuit while leveling without the grind choices.</p><p>I would think this would be a great money maker for SoE - but $25 is way too cheap. I would charge at minimum $1000.</p><p>Don't ferget, you wouldn't have to betray (you would have that advantage), nor lose your masters, gear, AAs, etc. (again it's your advantage. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" /></p>

Carthr
05-23-2010, 03:47 PM
<p>The vast majority of the people at 90 don't even know their class... Even if they've been playing it from launch..</p>

Crickett
05-23-2010, 03:58 PM
<p>Actually, I thought there was a class change potion...I guess I thought wrong.</p><p>Personally, I see nothing wrong with the idea but don't know if it could be implemented.</p><p>Although....it has been at least partially.</p><p>Class Change Through Betrayal:</p><p>Ranger>Swash</p><p>Temp>Inq</p><p>Conj>Necro</p><p>etc. so I don't see why it couldn't become available, even if you "had" to lose your Masters/Experts like in betrayal and restart with App's.</p><p>As it stands, no (sane) level 90 tradeskiller would reset to change to another class and start at 9 even though they "can", though, for a price, I see not problem with a potion in this area either.</p>

Notsovilepriest
05-23-2010, 04:03 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ravaan wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>let the character stay the same level/AA, have to get their own gear and weapons. I would buy one in a heartbeat as i don't have the desire to play through the AA grind again.</p></blockquote><p>This fantasy is a good one! Gave me a big ol' smile. Ya, I can understand pwr leveling, then grinding AAs instead of working the AA circuit while leveling without the grind choices.</p><p>I would think this would be a great money maker for SoE - but $25 is way too cheap. I would charge at minimum $1000.</p><p>Don't ferget, you wouldn't have to betray (you would have that advantage), nor lose your masters, gear, AAs, etc. (again it's your advantage. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>If you are a different class, How would you keep masters? If you put the time in already once grinding AA and payed to switch, why would you make them do it again? If they put time into the toon and then money to play something they or their guild desire more, why make them re-grind when a majority of quests are not repeatable.</p>

Beelzebub
05-23-2010, 04:28 PM
<p>I'd gladly pay $50 to change my class. The AA grind is brutal and you are effectively useless without a ton of AA's. It's almost not even worth trying to level alts anymore since you aren't good to anybody with under 200 AA's and doing several hundred solo quests to get them is worse than Chinese water torture.</p><p>They should at lease allow you to change to a different class within your archetype. I can't see how anyone couldn't learn a new class in short order after reaching max level.</p>

Neiloch
05-23-2010, 04:44 PM
<p><cite>Carthrax wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The vast majority of the people at 90 don't even know their class... Even if they've been playing it from launch..</p></blockquote><p>Basically said what I posted but with more brevity hehe.</p><p><cite>Crickett wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Actually, I thought there was a class change potion...I guess I thought wrong.</p><p>Personally, I see nothing wrong with the idea but don't know if it could be implemented.</p><p>Although....it has been at least partially.</p><p>Class Change Through Betrayal:</p><p>Ranger>Swash</p><p>Temp>Inq</p><p>Conj>Necro</p><p>etc. so I don't see why it couldn't become available, even if you "had" to lose your Masters/Experts like in betrayal and restart with App's.</p><p>As it stands, no (sane) level 90 tradeskiller would reset to change to another class and start at 9 even though they "can", though, for a price, I see not problem with a potion in this area either.</p></blockquote><p>I lol'd at "ranger>swash", people just can't seem to believe rangers are supposed to be counter parts to assassins. Also I know you meant that arrows as kind of 'change to' but also means 'greater than', ranger greater than swash is also highly debatable.</p><p>I imagine keeping masters would actually be a huge problem. If you had ALL your masters it would be a simple matter, but any other combination would be a huge undertaking. People betray still knowing they will lose them, should just lose them with the potion as well.</p><p>Really what they should work on implementing is a system to change classes at will (without anything from the station store), or perhaps in your house/guild hall. Lots of new MMO's are coming out with classless systems or systems to change classes without losing anything or a huge 'to do'. Being stuck in one class is going to be 'old fashioned' pretty soon. I hope at least 'EQ next' has easy class switching or classless system.</p>

Maroger
05-23-2010, 05:23 PM
<p>If you find you have made a poor class choice and betrayal doesn't fit, I think they should give you a one time chance to change your class. Isn't the idea to have - if you aren't having fun how does that benefit SOE?</p><p>I think they should give you a one time Class change which lets your keep all your AAs but you would have to get new spells.</p>

Crismorn
05-23-2010, 06:50 PM
<p><cite>Guy De Alsace wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Thats the most bizarre statement - you learn nothing from your class unless you are at cap? Its just an absurd statement to make!</p><p>If I took a class I'd never played at 90 I wouldnt have a clue where to start. If I'd played one all the way to 90 then I would know the class intimately.</p><p>If I learn to drive then someone gives me a formula one car I'd likely go and kill myself in short order. If I'd risen through the formulas to drive that same car I'd be a professional and competitive driver.</p></blockquote><p>Its true</p><p>At cap you have to re-learn everything about your class</p><p>Real life arguement thats not even worth responding to</p><p>Like I said previously that statement would be difficult to understand for most of the people who read these forums, you would have to have a player at cap and be able to play him well in order to understand what I am saying</p>

Neskonlith
05-23-2010, 07:15 PM
<p><cite>Beelzebub wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'd gladly pay $50 to change my class. The AA grind is brutal and you are effectively useless without a ton of AA's.</p><p>It's almost not even worth trying to level alts anymore since you aren't good to anybody with under 200 AA's and doing several hundred solo quests to get them is worse than Chinese water torture.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">When you consider how much it sucks to grind up alts, think of how much worse it would be for a new player checking the game out - without a special bonus like RAF, the grind is a snoozer that's very easy to set aside for something that's actually fun.</span></p>

Caethre
05-23-2010, 07:28 PM
<p>(( <span style="color: #ff6600;">This thread suggests what I consider to be a very bad idea. Not only does it cater to the "me me me, now now now" "wah wah I want the flavour of the month" category of the playerbase, it goes against the very idea that you level your own character in the class you want to play, you don't pay real world money to change an existing character to something else.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">The best players, are not those who powerlevel to 90 in 3 days and then coat-tailed on the successes of others to get raidgeared up so that they can then trivialize instances and strut about trying to act cool.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Regarding some points in this thread, those who say they learnt nothing levelling from 1-90 are the type who will continue not to learn after 90. There is a lot to learn about how to deal with grouping situations and handling different grouping structures and varying player and character strengths, skills a lot of players who THINK they are good simply do not have at all.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">This post from Jrral was poignant:</span></p><p> <cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You do not learn anything from going level 1-90 in eq2.</p></blockquote><p>ROFL.</p><p>Yes, you do learn a lot. You learn the basics of your class.</p><p>For a tank, for instance, you learn how to pull mobs and how to peel what you want off without bringing the whole room. If you're grouping with even one experienced player, you'll learn things like how to turn and position mobs, how to watch for the signs a DPS class is starting to pull aggro off you and how to get the mob back. You won't learn the strategies of the high-end mobs until you get there, but there's a lot to learn that isn't all about the top end. Nor will you learn most of it in T1 and T2, but then you'll solo through those tiers so fast that if you blink you'll miss entire levels going by. But in T3-T8 you'll learn many things about your class and how to play it.</p><p>If, that is, you're interested in learning at all. Nobody and nothing can teach a thing to someone who thinks they don't need to learn, or worse that there's nothing to learn. All you can do is avoid that sort, because they aren't going to magically change just because they hit the level cap.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">And an even better quote from the same person</span>:</p><p> <cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Before SF I ran into way too many level 80 scouts and mages who have <em>no idea whatsoever</em> how to manage their aggro. They'd unload with every heavy hitter in their arsenal, completely ignoring the hate meter, then wonder why the mob's on them instead of the tank. This when they know they're raid-geared and running with a tank who's level 78 wearing quested and mastercrafted gear.</p><p>I'd see tanks who, when running with a non-raiding healer, would pull an entire room of triple-ups just like they would if they were running with their raid-geared healers and then wonder why the group wiped.</p><p>In short, I ran into a lot of players who apparently had no clue whatsoever how to play their class in anything <em>except</em> an end-game raid-geared environment.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Raiding is only ONE part of the game, and a part that many players do not even take part in, and you WILL be grouping with people like that, unless you ONLY group inside your tiny raidguild communities.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">The best players, are those who can adapt to exactly what they have in any given situation, and make the best winning combination from that team, whatever it is, and against any foes.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Players who just "unload everything and its the tanks problem" or "pull everything, thats the healers issue" are NOT good players, they are very poor players indeed (whatever their guild tag or gear level).</span> ))</p>

Notsovilepriest
05-23-2010, 08:27 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>(( <span style="color: #ff6600;">This thread suggests what I consider to be a very bad idea. Not only does it cater to the "me me me, now now now" "wah wah I want the flavour of the month" category of the playerbase, it goes against the very idea that you level your own character in the class you want to play, you don't pay real world money to change an existing character to something else.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">The best players, are not those who powerlevel to 90 in 3 days and then coat-tailed on the successes of others to get raidgeared up so that they can then trivialize instances and strut about trying to act cool.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Regarding some points in this thread, those who say they learnt nothing levelling from 1-90 are the type who will continue not to learn after 90. There is a lot to learn about how to deal with grouping situations and handling different grouping structures and varying player and character strengths, skills a lot of players who THINK they are good simply do not have at all.</span></p></blockquote><p>Funny, Though I don't agree with what they did, but some of the better players left in this game got destroyed by the BG exploit thing, and got deleted and stripped. They then got re-PL'ed and went back to work, some on other classes, and are still better than 90% of the people that play that class, why? because they understand the mechanics of the game, not because they leveled their toon,</p>

Carthr
05-23-2010, 09:22 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>(( <span style="color: #ff6600;">This thread suggests what I consider to be a very bad idea. Not only does it cater to the "me me me, now now now" "wah wah I want the flavour of the month" category of the playerbase, it goes against the very idea that you level your own character in the class you want to play, you don't pay real world money to change an existing character to something else.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">The best players, are not those who powerlevel to 90 in 3 days and then coat-tailed on the successes of others to get raidgeared up so that they can then trivialize instances and strut about trying to act cool.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Regarding some points in this thread, those who say they learnt nothing levelling from 1-90 are the type who will continue not to learn after 90. There is a lot to learn about how to deal with grouping situations and handling different grouping structures and varying player and character strengths, skills a lot of players who THINK they are good simply do not have at all.</span></p></blockquote><p>Funny, Though I don't agree with what they did, but some of the better players left in this game got destroyed by the BG exploit thing, and got deleted and stripped. They then got re-PL'ed and went back to work, some on other classes, and are still better than 90% of the people that play that class, why? because they understand the mechanics of the game, not because they leveled their toon,</p></blockquote><p>Ding ding ding.... This game is stupidly easy once you know the mechanics.</p>

agnott
05-23-2010, 09:52 PM
<p>In SWG you can change professions. And what they do there will happen here.</p><p>There is always 1 or 2 classes or professions that are the best to level. "Everybody" will roll those clasess and switch at the end.</p><p>There is somthing wrong with that but this fits right in a world were dieing is fun and I can buy pretty armor with real money.</p>

Alvane
05-24-2010, 02:06 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ravaan wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>let the character stay the same level/AA, have to get their own gear and weapons. I would buy one in a heartbeat as i don't have the desire to play through the AA grind again.</p></blockquote><p>This fantasy is a good one! Gave me a big ol' smile. Ya, I can understand pwr leveling, then grinding AAs instead of working the AA circuit while leveling without the grind choices.</p><p>I would think this would be a great money maker for SoE - but $25 is way too cheap. I would charge at minimum $1000.</p><p>Don't ferget, you wouldn't have to betray (you would have that advantage), nor lose your masters, gear, AAs, etc. (again it's your advantage. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>If you are a different class, How would you keep masters? If you put the time in already once grinding AA and payed to switch, why would you make them do it again? If they put time into the toon and then money to play something they or their guild desire more, why make them re-grind when a majority of quests are not repeatable.</p></blockquote><p>Just in case you want to change back again. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Alvane
05-24-2010, 02:08 AM
<p><cite>Beelzebub wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'd gladly pay $50 to change my class. The AA grind is brutal and you are effectively useless without a ton of AA's.</p></blockquote><p>AA grind is brutal only because you chose that route. Pwr level up and grind AAs - that's your choice - then ya it's brutal.</p>

Maggyar
05-24-2010, 03:25 AM
<p>Leveling up your 4th or 5th alt using antonica and commonlands soloquest lines is more brutal imo.</p>

Wingrider01
05-24-2010, 07:57 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Leveling up your 4th or 5th alt using antonica and commonlands soloquest lines is more brutal imo.</p></blockquote><p>you are 100 percent correct brutally inefficient to use that areas, better lines are available to any class/race</p>

mykei
05-24-2010, 09:27 AM
<p> a potion to change class would be good. it should also convert the myth/fabled wep also. i see this being a good thing for the game, peeps will ditch their SKs to make useful classes and SOE would make some cash, win-win.</p>

Alvane
05-24-2010, 11:53 AM
<p><cite>Wingrider01 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Leveling up your 4th or 5th alt using antonica and commonlands soloquest lines is more brutal imo.</p></blockquote><p>you are 100 percent correct brutally inefficient to use that areas, better lines are available to any class/race</p></blockquote><p>Ya - I agree - better to utilize BBM. However, if you level lock at 15-20 and spend a couple days racking in AAs, you get very strong and can easily duo WC, FG, SH for some nice delicacies as well as fast XP to level up.</p>

Yimway
05-24-2010, 12:06 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ya - I agree - better to utilize BBM. However, if you level lock at 15-20 and spend a couple days racking in AAs, you get very strong and can easily duo WC, FG, SH for some nice delicacies as well as fast XP to level up.</p></blockquote><p>It's brutal to repeat that content anywhere you do it.</p><p>Players should be able to switch classes if they want.  It's a good revenue stream for SoE, and it enables players to continue having fun with the game.  There is simply no downside to it.</p><p>Each expansion puts preasure on raiding guilds / leaders to re-shape their class makeup.  It is much more fair to provide a means of class change than to tell a level 90/250 Shaman to go reroll a level 1 cause we need a druid/inq in that slot now.</p><p>Players should be able to keep the work they've put into their mains and switch to a class that is needed, not currently broken, or most importantly, to switch to a class that is fun for them to play when their current one feels like a chore.</p><p>I agree with keeping the pricepoint high, 25-50 bucks for this service, as the downside lies in being able to rapidly shift around in classes.  These decisions shouldn't go lightly, and players should be encouraged to do due diligance in making a significant change of this type.</p><p>I don't think they should keep masters, but they need to either be able to repeat epic reprocusions, or auto receive the upate for the new class.</p><p>New features that empower players to continue having fun when they've reached a point the game is no longer fun to them should be advocated.  Forcing players to choose between repeating droll content (for what might be the 10th time now) vs choosing to play a new game without the droll repeat, its not hard to realize that eventually the new content wins and you lose the subscriber.</p>

MaCloud1032
05-24-2010, 03:06 PM
I think the easyist and best argument for having a class change pot is simply this: Every update and expansion SOE continues to make changes to all classes. Either thru AA's stat consolidations, gear changes, and any other types they can do. How many can say there toons play the same way now as they did in say KoS? I know my SK is totaly diffrent. Players should have the ability to mitigate SOE's affect on them. If tomorrow SOE decided to make all SK's a lv1 tinkerbell that's unplayable by me I should be able to turn the time I have invested in that toon(level and AA) into a class I feel now suits me. Tomorrow they will be releasing a large pvp/bg update(or so iam told and understand) may totaly screw up an entire class. Should those people be forced to loose the time and effort put forth becase SOE messed up there toons?

Gargamel
05-24-2010, 03:31 PM
<p>You people are pathetic.  Those that say you learn nothing from 1-90 are exactly the morons that don't bother to learn anything.  I can't think of a much lamer idea than the OP... if I tried I guess I could suggest a $100 item that instantly gave you 250 AAs, or hell, why not just outright sell fully fabled, mastered, mythical, 90/250 for $250 and get it over with.</p><p>Seriously I don't get you fools.  So you intentionally seek out a long time investment form of entertainment and then cry and whine about it taking time to do things.  It'd be like going skydiving and complaining that the plane is so high in the air, or going to a fancy restaurant and crying the food tastes too good.  I mean its in the [Removed for Content] name... everQUEST<span style="white-space: pre;"> </span> and you have the nerve to cry about having to quest.</p><p>And whats your [Removed for Content] hurry?  Where are you off too, what are you rushing towards?  Its like hurry up and wait... I can't wait for the weekend so it can be over sooner... I just don't get your mindset on this one at all.</p>

Yimway
05-24-2010, 04:06 PM
<p><cite>Gargamel wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You people are pathetic.  Those that say you learn nothing from 1-90 are exactly the morons that don't bother to learn anything. </p></blockquote><p>I'm pathetic then.</p><p>Cause I strongly believe there is NOTHING learned 1-80 that can't/isn't learned 80-90.</p><p>The real learning begins at level cap, before that its very rudimentary as far as skill and application.</p><p>You also seem to mistakenly place the journey as the primary part of the gameplay.  Whereas everyone looking for such a potion places the end-game as the primary part of gameplay.</p><p>I can certainly understand how you value the journey and its the important part of the game for you,  perhaps you can walk a mile in our shoes and see that we value the majority of our time playing at the destination rather than the journey.</p><p>It's great you like repeating the journey many times over.  I imagine this makes an EQ2 subscription for you very rewarding.  I don't think it would be too hard for you to imagine that some players don't enjoy repeating the journey over and over again.</p>

Hene
05-24-2010, 04:19 PM
<p><cite>Gargamel wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Those that say you learn nothing from 1-90 are exactly the morons that don't bother to learn anything.</p></blockquote><p>Tbh, I learned everything I need to know leveling 1 character from 1-90 and raiding with him.  Now I know every class (minus a few) in great detail with respect to utility provided, AA, spells, and general class ability.  In just a few hours at the keyboard of a lv 90 char I'm sure anyone with a little competence and gameplay experience would do just fine with that char.</p><p><cite>Gargamel wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>if I tried I guess I could suggest a $100 item that instantly gave you 250 AAs, or hell, why not just outright sell fully fabled, mastered, mythical, 90/250 for $250 and get it over with.</p></blockquote><p>They already have this. It's called station exchange.</p><p>Edit: Oh, you're right about learning 1 thing tho, lore is definitely learned a lot in leveling your toons through the lowbie tiers</p>

MaCloud1032
05-24-2010, 04:21 PM
Well raid spots can be hard to come by. Also I didn't see any one asking for auto 90 simply wanting to turn one 90 to another 90

LethalBlade
05-24-2010, 04:28 PM
<p>Class change potions? Are you freakin' serious? HELL NO! I've heard of a lot of ridiculous MMO requests, but this one takes the cake. Why not just sell a potion that instantly levels you to 90, with full AA, and gives you the absolute best gear in the game for your class. This way you can start a sub, create a character, use this potion, then cancel your sub and be done with it.</p><p>If this sort of absolute nonsense ever comes to the marketplace, I am gone.</p>

Nazreen
05-24-2010, 04:34 PM
<p><cite>Gargamel wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You people are pathetic.  Those that say you learn nothing from 1-90 are exactly the morons that don't bother to learn anything.  I can't think of a much lamer idea than the OP... if I tried I guess I could suggest a $100 item that instantly gave you 250 AAs, or hell, why not just outright sell fully fabled, mastered, mythical, 90/250 for $250 and get it over with.</p><p>Seriously I don't get you fools.  So you intentionally seek out a long time investment form of entertainment and then cry and whine about it taking time to do things.  It'd be like going skydiving and complaining that the plane is so high in the air, or going to a fancy restaurant and crying the food tastes too good.  I mean its in the [Removed for Content] name... everQUEST<span style="white-space: pre;"> </span> and you have the nerve to cry about having to quest.</p><p>And whats your [Removed for Content] hurry?  Where are you off too, what are you rushing towards?  Its like hurry up and wait... I can't wait for the weekend so it can be over sooner... I just don't get your mindset on this one at all.</p></blockquote><p>Wow, I'm not a fan of the idea of a class change potion either, but honestly there is no need to be so unkind and call people names over it. Everyone is entitled to their opinions.  I too agree doing the same quests over and over to level alts (God knows I've done it enough in the past), plus the aa grind is sometimes a pain but still... I would rather people have to work and level the classes they want.  I would not, however be opposed if the class change potion set you back to level 1 with no aa-you still have to work then on leveling the character-however it might be an option for some of those with all toon slots filled.</p>

bks6721
05-24-2010, 04:53 PM
<p>I can understand no class "change" potion.  But a "reset to level ONE and choose a new class" potion would be nice.</p><p>I have a level 90 Tailor that doesn't like being an lvl 25 Illy.  She'd rather change to a level 1 Monk and NOT lose her tradeskill levels.</p>

bks6721
05-24-2010, 05:03 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gargamel wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You people are pathetic.  Those that say you learn nothing from 1-90 are exactly the morons that don't bother to learn anything. </p></blockquote><p>I'm pathetic then.</p><p>Cause I strongly believe there is NOTHING learned 1-80 that can't/isn't learned 80-90.</p><p>The real learning begins at level cap, before that its very rudimentary as far as skill and application.</p><p>You also seem to mistakenly place the journey as the primary part of the gameplay.  Whereas everyone looking for such a potion places the end-game as the primary part of gameplay.</p><p>I can certainly understand how you value the journey and its the important part of the game for you,  perhaps you can walk a mile in our shoes and see that we value the majority of our time playing at the destination rather than the journey.</p><p>It's great you like repeating the journey many times over.  I imagine this makes an EQ2 subscription for you very rewarding.  I don't think it would be too hard for you to imagine that some players don't enjoy repeating the journey over and over again.</p></blockquote><p>actually it seems like this "class change potion" as suggested would conflict with their "Buy a Character" idea on the Exchange Servers.</p><p>Want to swap classes for raiding end game?  Buy/Sell them on the Exchange Server.    Any potion for $25 on the marketplace should reset your level to ONE.</p>

Fyranaer
05-24-2010, 05:09 PM
<p><cite>Nazreen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gargamel wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You people are pathetic.  Those that say you learn nothing from 1-90 are exactly the morons that don't bother to learn anything.  I can't think of a much lamer idea than the OP... if I tried I guess I could suggest a $100 item that instantly gave you 250 AAs, or hell, why not just outright sell fully fabled, mastered, mythical, 90/250 for $250 and get it over with.</p><p>Seriously I don't get you fools.  So you intentionally seek out a long time investment form of entertainment and then cry and whine about it taking time to do things.  It'd be like going skydiving and complaining that the plane is so high in the air, or going to a fancy restaurant and crying the food tastes too good.  I mean its in the [Removed for Content] name... everQUEST<span style="white-space: pre;"> </span> and you have the nerve to cry about having to quest.</p><p>And whats your [Removed for Content] hurry?  Where are you off too, what are you rushing towards?  Its like hurry up and wait... I can't wait for the weekend so it can be over sooner... I just don't get your mindset on this one at all.</p></blockquote><p>Wow, I'm not a fan of the idea of a class change potion either, but honestly there is no need to be so unkind and call people names over it. Everyone is entitled to their opinions.  I too agree doing the same quests over and over to level alts (God knows I've done it enough in the past), plus the aa grind is sometimes a pain but still... I would rather people have to work and level the classes they want.  I would not, however be opposed if the class change potion set you back to level 1 with no aa-you still have to work then on leveling the character-however it might be an option for some of those with all toon slots filled.</p></blockquote><p>Why would you rather people play the game how you want them to instead of letting them play the game how they want?  If raiders enjoy building large group dynamics and they want to spend their time at end game (whatever that means to them), let them.  Why would you want someone to spend a bunch of time doing something in the game they don't like to do all over again.</p><p>I don't see how players buying class changes so their raiding guild is more effective can possibly make my game play less fun.  The point of gaming is to have fun.  Would this make the game more fun for some people?  Would it make the game less fun for those who don't want to play this way?</p>

ShinGoku
05-24-2010, 05:12 PM
<p>I would totally pay the money for the toon type swappage.</p><p>I would make my monk into something worth playing lol!</p>

Fyranaer
05-24-2010, 05:12 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gargamel wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You people are pathetic.  Those that say you learn nothing from 1-90 are exactly the morons that don't bother to learn anything. </p></blockquote><p>I'm pathetic then.</p><p>Cause I strongly believe there is NOTHING learned 1-80 that can't/isn't learned 80-90.</p><p>The real learning begins at level cap, before that its very rudimentary as far as skill and application.</p><p>You also seem to mistakenly place the journey as the primary part of the gameplay.  Whereas everyone looking for such a potion places the end-game as the primary part of gameplay.</p><p>I can certainly understand how you value the journey and its the important part of the game for you,  perhaps you can walk a mile in our shoes and see that we value the majority of our time playing at the destination rather than the journey.</p><p>It's great you like repeating the journey many times over.  I imagine this makes an EQ2 subscription for you very rewarding.  I don't think it would be too hard for you to imagine that some players don't enjoy repeating the journey over and over again.</p></blockquote><p>actually it seems like this "class change potion" as suggested would conflict with their "Buy a Character" idea on the Exchange Servers.</p><p>Want to swap classes for raiding end game?  Buy/Sell them on the Exchange Server.    Any potion for $25 on the marketplace should reset your level to ONE.</p></blockquote><p>Why should it reset the level to one?</p>

illaria
05-24-2010, 05:17 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I can understand no class "change" potion.  But a "reset to level ONE and choose a new class" potion would be nice.</p><p>I have a level 90 Tailor that doesn't like being an lvl 25 Illy.  She'd rather change to a level 1 Monk and NOT lose her tradeskill levels.</p></blockquote><p>I have been wanting this a long time for my assassin alchemist I would love to get her adventure class set back to level 1 but I would prefer an in game mechanic not station cash</p>

Wingrider01
05-24-2010, 05:26 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gargamel wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You people are pathetic.  Those that say you learn nothing from 1-90 are exactly the morons that don't bother to learn anything. </p></blockquote><p>I'm pathetic then.</p><p>Cause I strongly believe there is NOTHING learned 1-80 that can't/isn't learned 80-90.</p><p>The real learning begins at level cap, before that its very rudimentary as far as skill and application.</p><p>You also seem to mistakenly place the journey as the primary part of the gameplay.  Whereas everyone looking for such a potion places the end-game as the primary part of gameplay.</p><p>I can certainly understand how you value the journey and its the important part of the game for you,  perhaps you can walk a mile in our shoes and see that we value the majority of our time playing at the destination rather than the journey.</p><p>It's great you like repeating the journey many times over.  I imagine this makes an EQ2 subscription for you very rewarding.  I don't think it would be too hard for you to imagine that some players don't enjoy repeating the journey over and over again.</p></blockquote><p>grouped with a healer that probably subscribed to your method of learning their class in cella - was one of the worst runs we have every had, 20 deaths latter the healer finally got disgusted and left, reapirs for the 21st time picked up a different healer that we knew started in Qeynos and made it through on the first try.</p><p>I think Staples has a button for this idea</p>

EasternKing
05-24-2010, 05:32 PM
<p><cite>Gargamel wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You people are pathetic.  Those that say you learn nothing from 1-90 are exactly the morons that don't bother to learn anything.  I can't think of a much lamer idea than the OP... if I tried I guess I could suggest a $100 item that instantly gave you 250 AAs, or hell, why not just outright sell fully fabled, mastered, mythical, 90/250 for $250 and get it over with.</p><p>Seriously I don't get you fools.  So you intentionally seek out a long time investment form of entertainment and then cry and whine about it taking time to do things.  It'd be like going skydiving and complaining that the plane is so high in the air, or going to a fancy restaurant and crying the food tastes too good.  I mean its in the [Removed for Content] name... everQUEST<span style="white-space: pre;"> </span> and you have the nerve to cry about having to quest.</p><p>And whats your [Removed for Content] hurry?  Where are you off too, what are you rushing towards?  Its like hurry up and wait... I can't wait for the weekend so it can be over sooner... I just don't get your mindset on this one at all.</p></blockquote><p>I am going to link you a picture here, please look at the bottom left of the picture, then look at the guild window, i will also link here the linky to eq2 players, so you can go check the creation date of my Character.</p><p>I will state now catergorically, if you have one, just one class at max level and can play this game with even a medium amount of competency, you will learn nothing leveling a new class to cap, you will also be able to play that class to the same level of competency as you can do your main, there is nothing challenging to learn 1-90, there is no groups to experience the dynamics of eq2 in raids/groups 1-90, the game at 90 is so far removed from solo yourself to 1-90, it is these very people that have the issues at 90 when there whole game dynamic changes and they dont know what to do. </p><p>No person at 90 needs to learn anything that is taught soloing yourself a new alt to cap.</p><p>If i had an option via the SC marketplace, to change an alt i rarely use anymore into a class i could use or was required for my guilds raids, i would do so in a heartbeat.</p><p>Let me state one more time in case you missed it, there is NOTHING to learn 1-90, there is NOTHING exciting doing it ll again, the AA grind is enough to put just about everyone off, making an alt and leveling it up again</p><p><img src="http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa275/theeasternking_photo/Naggashgh.jpg" /></p><p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Lucan%20DLere/Naggash/" target="_blank">http://eq2players.station.sony.com/...0DLere/Naggash/</a></p><p>Thats right, i dont even have 3 weeks of played time on this char, yet i have Main tanked every single Instanced mob, apart from The Destroyer in labs, i am the leader of the 2nd most succesful raid guild on LDL, i am not some random scrub that cannot hit buttons sequentially, i find it offensive in the extreme that i am called such, or told i dont know how to play eq2, simply because i would pay SOE for the ability to turn a dead alt into a useful one for RL cash.</p><p>There is no fun in leveling an alt, the game exsists at max level only, leveling an Alt is tedious, tedious beyond belief, and what makes it so is the quests you get to repeat adnaseum for AA.</p><p>Soe either need to rework AA gain or they need to add a character respec to SC market place.</p>

Andok
05-24-2010, 07:00 PM
<p><cite>EasternKing wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>*snip*</p><p>Thats right, <strong>i dont even have 3 weeks of played time</strong> on this char, yet i have Main tanked every single Instanced mob,</p><p>*snip*</p><p>, leveling an Alt is <strong>tedious, tedious beyond belief</strong>,</p></blockquote><p>Sorry, but this gave me a chuckle.  Three weeks was tedious?  That puts “short attention span” on a whole new level <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /></p>

Crismorn
05-24-2010, 07:46 PM
<p><cite>Gargamel wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You people are pathetic.  Those that say you learn nothing from 1-90 are exactly the morons that don't bother to learn anything.  I can't think of a much lamer idea than the OP... if I tried I guess I could suggest a $100 item that instantly gave you 250 AAs, or hell, why not just outright sell fully fabled, mastered, mythical, 90/250 for $250 and get it over with.</p><p>Seriously I don't get you fools.  So you intentionally seek out a long time investment form of <strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">entertainment </span></strong>and then cry and whine about it taking time to do things.  It'd be like going skydiving and complaining that the plane is so high in the air, or going to a fancy restaurant and crying the food tastes too good.  I mean its in the [Removed for Content] name... everQUEST<span style="white-space: pre;"> </span> and you have the nerve to cry about having to quest.</p><p><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">And whats your [Removed for Content] hurry?</span></strong>  Where are you off too, what are you rushing towards?  Its like hurry up and wait... I can't wait for the weekend so it can be over sooner... I just don't get your mindset on this one at all.</p></blockquote><p>Its not entertaining to do trivial content repeadedly so we can start playing eq2.</p><p>the rush is so we can start playing eq2 which starts at level 90 right now.</p><p>If you have fun doing tedious quests so you can start playing an entirely different game when your done then by all means do so, many of us do not and thats why this thread was created.</p>

Crismorn
05-24-2010, 07:49 PM
<p>I've had to put up with content being dumbed down repeadedly to the point where their is no challenge in this game pre-cap raiding, might as well let us get there after we have done that a bunch of times.</p><p>Its not fun or challenging, its just mindnumbing and boring</p>

EasternKing
05-24-2010, 07:58 PM
<p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>EasternKing wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>*snip*</p><p>Thats right, <strong>i dont even have 3 weeks of played time</strong> on this char, yet i have Main tanked every single Instanced mob,</p><p>*snip*</p><p>, leveling an Alt is <strong>tedious, tedious beyond belief</strong>,</p></blockquote><p>Sorry, but this gave me a chuckle.  Three weeks was tedious?  That puts “short attention span” on a whole new level <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>It took me 1 week to get to 90 with around 200AA, that was one week of sheer misery and tedium, i would not recomend it to anyone.</p><p>yes the time was tedious, you know why? because it was repeating content i have done over and over and over and over.</p><p>I detest the quest system in eq2, the vast majority of the quests are errands, they are dull and boring, and i "have" to do them, because there is no other viable way of earning AA.</p>

denmom
05-24-2010, 08:01 PM
<p>I would like this potion because I have three crafters that I'd love to change from healers to something different.</p><p>I made these looooong ago, back a few months after launch when my husband was being an altaholic and I created healers to run with him.  When he recovered from the altism, I had several healers.  At the time I was also the sole crafter for our very small guild, so I made all 9 crafters.</p><p>Jump forward to current time.  I've replaced my old Sage and Jeweler with toons that I actually adventure on.  I have three other hybrids who started out that way and aren't replacements.  I have a Provi, Tailor, Carpenter that due to sentimental reasons I really don't want to replace.</p><p>For me, it's having to slog thru the crafting levels again.  My Tailor is L83, my Provi is L90, my Carp is L80.</p><p>I know many other players who have crafters on an adventuring class that they just don't enjoy playing.  They want to keep the tradeskill side and redo the adventure.</p><p>The problem with adventure, tho, is that it's not like tradeskilling.  All crafters are the same from L1-9, Artisan.  So it's easier to drop them back to L9 so they can rechoose a new craft.  With adventurers, there's too many variables to do this sort of thing.  The closest I think would have to be dropping the adventurer within it's class (fighter, mage, scout, priest).  I don't know if changing to another (ex: fighter to mage) could be done.</p><p>Anyhow, just wanted to give a diff view on this.</p>

Besual
05-25-2010, 07:22 AM
<p><cite>EasternKing wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It took me 1 week to get to 90 with around 200AA, that was one week of sheer misery and tedium, i would not recomend it to anyone.</p><p>yes the time was tedious, you know why? because it was repeating content i have done over and over and over and over.</p><p>I detest the quest system in eq2, the vast majority of the quests are errands, they are dull and boring, and i "have" to do them, because there is no other viable way of earning AA.</p></blockquote><p>Just a question: How often do you have done the level content? Five times? Ten times? How often have you done the raid content? Let us say the TSO one? 20 times? 30 times?</p><p>Once you have killed a raid mob it's just tedium, isn't it? Just farming and farming and farming... Shouldn't you be able just to buy all the raid loot? Wouldn't you do it in a heart beat?</p>

Wingrider01
05-25-2010, 07:23 AM
<p><cite>EasternKing wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gargamel wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You people are pathetic.  Those that say you learn nothing from 1-90 are exactly the morons that don't bother to learn anything.  I can't think of a much lamer idea than the OP... if I tried I guess I could suggest a $100 item that instantly gave you 250 AAs, or hell, why not just outright sell fully fabled, mastered, mythical, 90/250 for $250 and get it over with.</p><p>Seriously I don't get you fools.  So you intentionally seek out a long time investment form of entertainment and then cry and whine about it taking time to do things.  It'd be like going skydiving and complaining that the plane is so high in the air, or going to a fancy restaurant and crying the food tastes too good.  I mean its in the [Removed for Content] name... everQUEST<span style="white-space: pre;"> </span> and you have the nerve to cry about having to quest.</p><p>And whats your [Removed for Content] hurry?  Where are you off too, what are you rushing towards?  Its like hurry up and wait... I can't wait for the weekend so it can be over sooner... I just don't get your mindset on this one at all.</p></blockquote><p>I am going to link you a picture here, please look at the bottom left of the picture, then look at the guild window, i will also link here the linky to eq2 players, so you can go check the creation date of my Character.</p><p>I will state now catergorically, if you have one, just one class at max level and can play this game with even a medium amount of competency, you will learn nothing leveling a new class to cap, you will also be able to play that class to the same level of competency as you can do your main, there is nothing challenging to learn 1-90, there is no groups to experience the dynamics of eq2 in raids/groups 1-90, the game at 90 is so far removed from solo yourself to 1-90, it is these very people that have the issues at 90 when there whole game dynamic changes and they dont know what to do. </p><p>No person at 90 needs to learn anything that is taught soloing yourself a new alt to cap.</p><p>If i had an option via the SC marketplace, to change an alt i rarely use anymore into a class i could use or was required for my guilds raids, i would do so in a heartbeat.</p><p>Let me state one more time in case you missed it, there is NOTHING to learn 1-90, there is NOTHING exciting doing it ll again, the AA grind is enough to put just about everyone off, making an alt and leveling it up again</p><p><img src="http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa275/theeasternking_photo/Naggashgh.jpg" /></p><p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Lucan%20DLere/Naggash/" target="_blank">http://eq2players.station.sony.com/...0DLere/Naggash/</a></p><p>Thats right, i dont even have 3 weeks of played time on this char, yet i have Main tanked every single Instanced mob, apart from The Destroyer in labs, i am the leader of the 2nd most succesful raid guild on LDL, i am not some random scrub that cannot hit buttons sequentially, i find it offensive in the extreme that i am called such, or told i dont know how to play eq2, simply because i would pay SOE for the ability to turn a dead alt into a useful one for RL cash.</p><p>There is no fun in leveling an alt, the game exsists at max level only, leveling an Alt is tedious, tedious beyond belief, and what makes it so is the quests you get to repeat adnaseum for AA.</p><p>Soe either need to rework AA gain or they need to add a character respec to SC market place.</p></blockquote><p>If threr is truely "nothing to learn" then there is no need for a class change token, just double the price and purchase the characters off of SC, since you don't need to learn anything this is the perfect results - max level. max aa, max equipment for 30 seconds worth of effort, no "tedious effort" needed.</p><p>One thing no one has mentioned about this "dieties gift to bored players" does the 25.00 include replacing all your gear, your CA's, Spells, quest rewards, factions, mythicals, housing location if evil transfer, and every other little bit of related data that is tied to your character? Or is it turn into the new character that is in a neutral area, no armor, no faction, no quests completed, no mythical, no house, no faction, App 1 spells. Personally would vote for the second option for those that decided to take the token</p>

Birna
05-25-2010, 07:39 AM
<p><cite>Ravaan wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>let the character stay the same level/AA, have to get their own gear and weapons. I would buy one in a heartbeat as i don't have the desire to play through the AA grind again.</p></blockquote><p>I agree with those who say this is a bad, bad idea. HOWEVER....:</p><p>I am in favour for a class change potion if it resets my level to 1. I don't mind at all levelling up alts and doing the same quests over and over. This is the way I learn how to play the class and I would never ever want to jump in at a higher level, -not even if it's a class I am familiar with. I believe in starting at the beginning and slowly work yourself to the end content.</p><p>The reason I favour a class change potion then is because all my toons are crafters, and at times I have played a class for along time before I decide it's not for me. I have a problem deleting it though as it's a crafter and I have use for it's trade. As we all know, levelling up as a crafter is tedious work. I don't want to have to spend more time than necessairy on it. So if I could start over with another class of the same alignment <strong>and keep my trade</strong> it would be really great.</p>

EasternKing
05-25-2010, 08:16 AM
<p><cite>Besual wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>EasternKing wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It took me 1 week to get to 90 with around 200AA, that was one week of sheer misery and tedium, i would not recomend it to anyone.</p><p>yes the time was tedious, you know why? because it was repeating content i have done over and over and over and over.</p><p>I detest the quest system in eq2, the vast majority of the quests are errands, they are dull and boring, and i "have" to do them, because there is no other viable way of earning AA.</p></blockquote><p>Just a question: How often do you have done the level content? Five times? Ten times? How often have you done the raid content? Let us say the TSO one? 20 times? 30 times?</p><p>Once you have killed a raid mob it's just tedium, isn't it? Just farming and farming and farming... Shouldn't you be able just to buy all the raid loot? Wouldn't you do it in a heart beat?</p></blockquote><p>Your anology is terrible,</p><p>Solo content is dead content, once you have done it once its finished, there is no replay-ability to it.</p><p>Killing heroic mobs in instances for drops? yes eventually it gets tedious, not going to lie, the difference is its max level content, so there is a reason to do it repeatedly. usually you can also have a good laugh with mates in VC/Vent etc while running zones.</p><p>Raid content? yes eventually even this reachs tedium status, but usually again not for a very long time, it is also max level content, there is enjoyment to be taken in the farming of the content, the enjoyment of enjoying being around my friends and spending time together to defeat the content.</p><p>Can you honestly sit there and try to claim that soloing to 90 is the same game?</p><p>Can you honestly sit there and try to claim that you learn so much soloing to 90?</p><p>Can you honestly sit there and try to claim not wanting to repeat the solofest quest grind for AA is some how wrong?</p><p>There is no sense of achivement involved, there is no learning your class involved, there is no earning your way to anything when leveling an alt for the 2+ to 20+ time.</p>

EasternKing
05-25-2010, 08:28 AM
<p><cite>Birna wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ravaan wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>let the character stay the same level/AA, have to get their own gear and weapons. I would buy one in a heartbeat as i don't have the desire to play through the AA grind again.</p></blockquote><p>I agree with those who say this is a bad, bad idea. HOWEVER....:</p><p>I am in favour for a class change potion if it resets my level to 1. I don't mind at all levelling up alts and doing the same quests over and over. This is the way I learn how to play the class and I would never ever want to jump in at a higher level, -not even if it's a class I am familiar with. I believe in starting at the beginning and slowly work yourself to the end content.</p><p>The reason I favour a class change potion then is because all my toons are crafters, and at times I have played a class for along time before I decide it's not for me. I have a problem deleting it though as it's a crafter and I have use for it's trade. As we all know, levelling up as a crafter is tedious work. I don't want to have to spend more time than necessairy on it. So if I could start over with another class of the same alignment <strong>and keep my trade</strong> it would be really great.</p></blockquote><p>This is not a bad idea at all.</p><p>It will have ZERO impact on people who dont want anything to do with it.</p><p>You dont lose out, you dont miss out, in fact you are never ever going to know if someone used a class change service or not unless you A : knew that person to begin with, B : get told by said person.</p><p>You people claiming this is a "bad bad bad" idea remind me of the people who claimed lightbulbs were bad, and we should stick with candles.</p><p>Newsflash for you, this issue is only going to become worse and worse, the more AA they add to this game, the more levels they add, the more people are going to ask for something like this to be implemented.</p><p>They could simply add a Cloning System, avaliable at levels 40-60-80-100. once you hit one of the clone levels, you get an option at char select to create a new character that starts at the respective level of 40-60-80-100.</p><p>The Clone gets : anything you completed stays that way, any AA you had when you cloned is the same, you have no gear. the clone char also gets the options to clone, at the selected clone levels above the level it was cloned at.</p><p>Its not a hard system, its been used in a plethora of other games, it allows long time players to avoid some of the tedious solo repitition to be found in solo leveling a new alt up.</p>

Aldhissla
05-25-2010, 10:33 AM
<p>Stop begging for easy mode. Suggestions like these make me sick.</p>

SpiderlingBane
05-25-2010, 11:17 AM
<p>Class change potions are a great idea and I really hope they appear in the Station Store soon.  You really do learn very little about playing a class while leveling it from 1 to 90, and your gameplay experience really does change dramatically once you do hit 90.  I loved leveling my inquisitor.  The class is great fun to soloquest with.  But once I reached level cap and started grouping and raiding I found myself playing a different game entirely, and I also found that I hated hated hated being a healer.  So I don't play that character much.  All that time playing my inquisitor up, while fun, was wasted.  </p><p>EQ2 isn't a very difficult game to play.  Yes, there is a lot of stuff in the world, but anyone can become competent at any class with just a couple hours spent reading forums, trying things at the training dummy and a little practice on some solo mobs.   It isn't rocket science.</p>

Yimway
05-25-2010, 11:19 AM
<p><cite>Wingrider01 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Cause I strongly believe there is NOTHING learned 1-80 that can't/isn't learned 80-90.</p><p>The real learning begins at level cap, before that its very rudimentary as far as skill and application.</p></blockquote><p>grouped with a healer that probably subscribed to your method of learning their class in cella - was one of the worst runs we have every had, 20 deaths latter the healer finally got disgusted and left, reapirs for the 21st time picked up a different healer that we knew started in Qeynos and made it through on the first try.</p></blockquote><p>And your complaint in my opinion only validates what I said.  You had a healer that did the ad nausieum and got to cap and still didn't know how to play. </p><p>The result would have been exactly the same had the healer started the game at level 80. </p><p>I would however contend, and experienced level 90 that used a potion to change from say a tank to a healer would have done a better job than the healer in your cella group, as they would have already understood the game.</p>

Thunndar316
05-25-2010, 11:32 AM
<p>I would love to be able to change my Guardian (whom I never play) to a more useful class. </p><p>This would be a great option</p><p>Keep your current level/AA</p><p>Lose all spells/masters/gear ect.</p><p>Make it pricey, around $25.00 (2500 Smedbucks)</p><p>Currently the (backup) Swash in a raid guild and it would be nice to transfer my Guard over and change him to something else that I actually want to play.  I have no desire to go through the grind, again but I would drop 25 bucks to have a Wizard or a Warlock or a healer.</p><p>I see no problems with it.</p>

EasternKing
05-25-2010, 11:33 AM
<p><cite>Aldhissla wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Stop begging for easy mode. Suggestions like these make me sick.</p></blockquote><p>Thanks for your stella contribution to the thread.</p><p>The game is easymode, SOE made it easy mode, you can level to cap inside one day, thats right one day, now tell me please how that is hard difficult or challenging.</p><p>There is a very real issue with the game at the moment, they fixed it so you can level really fast to get new players into the areas of the game where the population is, that is awesome.</p><p>What is not awesome is doing it over and over and over, there is no challenge, no achievement, if you are an experianced gamer, there is no class you cannot pick up quickly inside a few hours.</p><p>If they rework the AA system to reflect the new improved leveling system, they dont need to add any sort of class change / clone system.</p><p>How ever if they do not rework the AA system, they need to either add the facility to SC MP to change class's, or they make a cloning system like the one i laid out already. they have the ability to completly copy your chars already, there should be little to no issue to copying your level, completed quests, earned AA to a clone and adding a new interface that allows you to pick a class type once you log in.</p>

Andok
05-25-2010, 12:23 PM
<p><cite>EasternKing wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Besual wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>EasternKing wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It took me 1 week to get to 90 with around 200AA, that was one week of sheer misery and tedium, i would not recomend it to anyone.</p><p>yes the time was tedious, you know why? because it was repeating content i have done over and over and over and over.</p><p>I detest the quest system in eq2, the vast majority of the quests are errands, they are dull and boring, and i "have" to do them, because there is no other viable way of earning AA.</p></blockquote><p>Just a question: How often do you have done the level content? Five times? Ten times? How often have you done the raid content? Let us say the TSO one? 20 times? 30 times?</p><p>Once you have killed a raid mob it's just tedium, isn't it? Just farming and farming and farming... Shouldn't you be able just to buy all the raid loot? Wouldn't you do it in a heart beat?</p></blockquote><p>Your anology is terrible,</p><p>Solo content is dead content, once you have done it once its finished, there is no replay-ability to it.</p><p>Killing heroic mobs in instances for drops? yes eventually it gets tedious, not going to lie, the difference is its max level content, so there is a reason to do it repeatedly. usually you can also have a good laugh with mates in VC/Vent etc while running zones.</p><p>Raid content? yes eventually even this reachs tedium status, but usually again not for a very long time, it is also max level content, there is enjoyment to be taken in the farming of the content, the enjoyment of enjoying being around my friends and spending time together to defeat the content.</p><p>Can you honestly sit there and try to claim that soloing to 90 is the same game?</p><p>Can you honestly sit there and try to claim that you learn so much soloing to 90?</p><p>Can you honestly sit there and try to claim not wanting to repeat the solofest quest grind for AA is some how wrong?</p><p>There is no sense of achivement involved, there is no learning your class involved, there is no earning your way to anything when leveling an alt for the 2+ to 20+ time.</p></blockquote><p>Actually, the parallel he drew was perfect.   You want to pay to bypass a portion of the game that you find tedious, be it leveling to 90 or getting raid drops.  Granted, neither would bother me, but they really are fundamentally the same.</p>

EasternKing
05-25-2010, 12:32 PM
<p><cite>Andok wrote</cite></p><blockquote><p>Actually, the parallel he drew was perfect.   You want to pay to bypass a portion of the game that you find tedious, be it leveling to 90 or getting raid drops.  Granted, neither would bother me, but they really are fundamentally the same.</p></blockquote><p>No it is not perfect.</p><p>The game exsists at cap. farming content for drops is part and parcel of that.</p><p>Going by myself to play on my own to level an alt is not part of the game experience at cap. repeating one shot errand quests is no part of my game experience at cap, i do not do quests, unless they are essential to my character advancement for my playstyle.</p><p>I have already stated several times, if they rework the AA system so it is in line with SOEs new adventure leveling system, i will be happy.</p><p>I am quite content to adventure level an alt, what i am not content to do is repeat the same [Removed for Content] boring solo quests over and over for AA.</p><p>People enjoy the tedium i get it, SOE has a system in place for you to experience the game as you choose to if you want tedium, SOE revamped the whole leveling system to get people to cap as fast as possible, that is where the game exsists for the vast majority of the playbase, what they forgot to do was making Killing a viable way to earn AA experiance along side the new improved mega fast get to cap system.</p><p>People love to claim SOE caters to all play styles, well as it stands it does not, and i will keep campaigning for changes until they give us the option to get to cap with a respectable amount of AA that does not involve repeating the horrible solo quests.</p>

Andok
05-25-2010, 12:46 PM
<p><cite>EasternKing wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Andok wrote</cite></p><blockquote><p>Actually, the parallel he drew was perfect.   You want to pay to bypass a portion of the game that you find tedious, be it leveling to 90 or getting raid drops.  Granted, neither would bother me, but they really are fundamentally the same.</p></blockquote><p>No it is not perfect.</p><p>The game exsists at cap. farming content for drops is part and parcel of that.</p><p>Going by myself to play on my own to level an alt is not part of the game experience at cap. repeating one shot errand quests is no part of my game experience at cap, i do not do quests, unless they are essential to my character advancement for my playstyle.</p><p>I have already stated several times, if they rework the AA system so it is in line with SOEs new adventure leveling system, i will be happy.</p><p>I am quite content to adventure level an alt, what i am not content to do is repeat the same [Removed for Content] boring solo quests over and over for AA.</p><p>People enjoy the tedium i get it, SOE has a system in place for you to experience the game as you choose to if you want tedium, SOE revamped the whole leveling system to get people to cap as fast as possible, that is where the game exsists for the vast majority of the playbase, what they forgot to do was making Killing a viable way to earn AA experiance along side the new improved mega fast get to cap system.</p><p>People love to claim SOE caters to all play styles, well as it stands it does not, and i will keep campaigning for changes until they give us the option to get to cap with a respectable amount of AA that does not involve repeating the horrible solo quests.</p></blockquote><p>It is the same - you're just not seeing it.</p><p>The game doesn’t just "exist at cap".  All of that stuff you find tedious to get you to cap is still the game.  I find raiding tedious, so I could just as easily claim that “the game exists before raiding”.</p><p>Again, I’m on your side for buying your way to 90 so you can get to the part of the game that you enjoy.  I am also for selling raid loot because buying your way past a part of the game you find tedious is buying your way past any part of the game someone else finds tedious…</p>

Oxie
05-25-2010, 12:59 PM
<p>So what about those of us who rolled a toon and were forced to pick an adventuring class, but our purpose for this toon was to make them a crafter? I picked classes that sounded like fun at the time, but now I wish they were something else. Now, I'm "stuck" with 5 crafter "alts" that never leave the tradeskill station, and I'm also "stuck" with them being a brigand, assassin, fury, troubador, and dirge. All 5 of these toons are level 90 crafters, and I've done everything crafter-wise on each of them.</p><p>My raiding main is a swashy/alchemist, but if for some crazy reason I wanted to turn my swashy into an armorsmith, I could go to an NPC and with a simple hail and few clicks, that toon would be reset to a level 9 craftsman for free. Why can't I do this for free for the adventuring classes on my other level 90 crafters?</p>

Yimway
05-25-2010, 01:01 PM
<p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It is the same - you're just not seeing it.</p></blockquote><p>I see the point your making, but I don't think its the same.</p><p>The point EasternKing is making is he can't play the playstyle he enjoys and progress at a reasonable rate.  As such he feels a class change potion is a much more reasonable option than repeating soloquests.</p><p>But he seems to say clearly that if he could grind dungeons for AA gain as fast or faster than doing soloquests for AA gain, he'd be just as happy to do that with a new character.</p><p>What he absolutely does not want to do is repeat soloquests ever again, and I can whole-heartedly agree with that sentiment.</p><p>It isn't the same as just buying all raid gear, unless your talking about a player who doesn't enjoy raiding buying it. </p><p>What SoE and naysayers here need to recognize is players at cap are frequently being asked to shift classes to fill spots, or cause the new content has put demands for different slots in your raid force.  I can assure you, there is a finite number of times someone will roll up a new class and repeat that grind before they simply opt to leave the game.</p><p>A class change potion retains players, as such if it isn't terribly costly to implement it should be done.  It is simply that easy of a decision to make.</p><p>-----------------------</p><p>That being said, there are other options.  You could have a mentor up system where as I could roll a level 1 troub and mentor up to my buddy who is a level 90/250 wizard.  Mentoring up could give me 80% of his spell quality, 80% of his gear quality, and 80% of his AA, and I could xp and play the game immediately.  I could then earn xp, gear, and level while mentoring up with my guildmates and completely eliminate any non-cap playstyle for advancement.</p><p>Potions, mentoring up, rolling level 80 starting characters, these are all options to game designers to allow players to engage the game within the playstyle the prefer playing without forcing them thru a content style and playstyle they do not enjoy.</p>

Andok
05-25-2010, 01:13 PM
<p>You guys make complete sense, and I agree with you; however, if we’re going to let one person bypass something they find tedious, we need to do the same for everyone.  Leveling a crafter to 90 is completely tedious, so if we allow people to bypass levels/AA, then we should also allow folks to bypass crafting levels.</p>

TuinalOfTheNexus
05-25-2010, 01:13 PM
<p>It's really just all the crap that's gone unaddressed by game design for years that causes the problem.</p><p>Needing 4 chanters and 4 bards or suffering a vastly sub-optimal raid for 5 years is right up there in the list of game-ruining issues for thousands of players. Especially when the majority of people find bards especially boring to play.</p><p>The people wanting the $25 class change pots are raiders sick of a shortage of needed classes, who are only needed  in the first place because there's a cookie cutter ideal raid in EQ2 that's miles ahead of a less conventional setup. The people arguing against them are non-raiders who don't see this issue and are worried their 300 days /played solo and grouping will be devalued.</p><p>I'd say just fix the game mechanics, but we all know this won't happen, so yes, $25 potion please, just like you did as an alternative to balancing racial abilities.</p>

Yimway
05-25-2010, 01:17 PM
<p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You guys make complete sense, and I agree with you; however, if we’re going to let one person bypass something they find tedious, we need to do the same for everyone.  Leveling a crafter to 90 is completely tedious, so if we allow people to bypass levels/AA, then we should also allow folks to bypass crafting levels.</p></blockquote><p>No its not the same at all.</p><p>There isn't a different crafting game when you become a level 90 Armorer.  Its the exact same crafting game all along.</p><p>Adventuring, there is a completely different game that begins at 90/200.</p>

Andok
05-25-2010, 01:25 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You guys make complete sense, and I agree with you; however, if we’re going to let one person bypass something they find tedious, we need to do the same for everyone.  Leveling a crafter to 90 is completely tedious, so if we allow people to bypass levels/AA, then we should also allow folks to bypass crafting levels.</p></blockquote><p>No its not the same at all.</p><p>There isn't a different crafting game when you become a level 90 Armorer.  Its the exact same crafting game all along.</p><p>Adventuring, there is a completely different game that begins at 90/200.</p></blockquote><p>It <em>is </em>fundamentally the same because you are bypassing a part of the game.  I get that you guys want to buy your way past a part of the game you find tedious; however, what you find fun and/or tedious doesn't hold true for everyone.</p>

Yimway
05-25-2010, 01:31 PM
<p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It <em>is </em>fundamentally the same because you are bypassing a part of the game.  I get that you guys want to buy your way past a part of the game you find tedious; however, what you find fun and/or tedious doesn't hold true for everyone.</p></blockquote><p>No one is saying it does hold true for everyone, but there is a very large population that only plays at cap that it does hold true for.</p><p>Its less about bypassing a part of the game, as it is bypassing a pre-requisite playstyle to get to the playstyle we enjoy.</p><p>For years in this game, we ran a regular monday night alt group that ground dungeons and heritages to level up alts.  Once the AA system grew to the point it was in EoF, we abandoned this group as we were ending up with max level characters that were completely nutered.  Since those days they amount of the nuetering missing AA has doubled or trippled.</p><p>If we could return to the alt group non-questing progression and end up at max level with reasonable aa and time spent, the issue of class changing wouldn't be as significant, as we'd be playing roughly the same playstyle leveling as we will play at cap.</p><p>The removal of the viability of that cohesive progression is what drives drives the need for the ability to switch vs repeat.</p>

Andok
05-25-2010, 01:38 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It <em>is </em>fundamentally the same because you are bypassing a part of the game.  I get that you guys want to buy your way past a part of the game you find tedious; however, what you find fun and/or tedious doesn't hold true for everyone.</p></blockquote><p>No one is saying it does hold true for everyone, but there is a very large population that only plays at cap that it does hold true for.</p><p>Its less about bypassing a part of the game, as it is bypassing a pre-requisite playstyle to get to the playstyle we enjoy.</p><p>For years in this game, we ran a regular monday night alt group that ground dungeons and heritages to level up alts.  Once the AA system grew to the point it was in EoF, we abandoned this group as we were ending up with max level characters that were completely nutered.  Since those days they amount of the nuetering missing AA has doubled or trippled.</p><p>If we could return to the alt group non-questing progression and end up at max level with reasonable aa and time spent, the issue of class changing wouldn't be as significant, as we'd be playing roughly the same playstyle leveling as we will play at cap.</p><p>The removal of the viability of that cohesive progression is what drives drives the need for the ability to switch vs repeat.</p></blockquote><p>And I'm not disagreeing with any of that.  In fact, I think allowing people to buy 90th level/200AA characters on SC would bring more players to the game.</p><p>I still maintain, however, that if we allow one type of player to bypass content that they find tedious, we need to do it for all types of players.  You can buy your AAs, I can buy my 90th level crafter, and someone else could buy their raid update/drop.</p>

Fyranaer
05-25-2010, 02:11 PM
<p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It <em>is </em>fundamentally the same because you are bypassing a part of the game.  I get that you guys want to buy your way past a part of the game you find tedious; however, what you find fun and/or tedious doesn't hold true for everyone.</p></blockquote><p>No one is saying it does hold true for everyone, but there is a very large population that only plays at cap that it does hold true for.</p><p>Its less about bypassing a part of the game, as it is bypassing a pre-requisite playstyle to get to the playstyle we enjoy.</p><p>For years in this game, we ran a regular monday night alt group that ground dungeons and heritages to level up alts.  Once the AA system grew to the point it was in EoF, we abandoned this group as we were ending up with max level characters that were completely nutered.  Since those days they amount of the nuetering missing AA has doubled or trippled.</p><p>If we could return to the alt group non-questing progression and end up at max level with reasonable aa and time spent, the issue of class changing wouldn't be as significant, as we'd be playing roughly the same playstyle leveling as we will play at cap.</p><p>The removal of the viability of that cohesive progression is what drives drives the need for the ability to switch vs repeat.</p></blockquote><p>And I'm not disagreeing with any of that.  In fact, I think allowing people to buy 90th level/200AA characters on SC would bring more players to the game.</p><p>I still maintain, however, that if we allow one type of player to bypass content that they find tedious, we need to do it for all types of players.  You can buy your AAs, I can buy my 90th level crafter, and someone else could buy their raid update/drop.</p></blockquote><p>I'm not sure I disagree with you, but the crafting is different.  I think your point would be more valid if say you leveled an armourer to 90 to gear your pally.  Then when you got your pally to 90/250 and realized that armourer didn't benefit you that you wanted to have a provisioner then the switch would be the same as a class change.</p><p>It seems to me there is a pretty big difference between changing a class or profession at level and just buying a leveled character.</p><p>I'm not really a raider anymore, but the important point, for me at least, in this conversation is that people get to play the game how they like.  So if raiders want something on the cash shop, or via in game mechanism, to make their raiding more fun, then why not let them.  I want to have a viable gaming experience the way I play (crafting, solo, small group) and so I'm all for other players having a fulfilling gaming experience.  It makes my gaming world richer and provides better revenue for further game development.</p><p>At this point I realize cash shops are here.  If something can be added to the shop to make the game more fun for some (or all) and it doesn't make the overall game experience less fun then I'm all for it.</p><p>Also someone asked whether gear, skills, etc should transfer over with the character.  I would say all gear than comes from non-repeatable quests should be transferred (class quest stuff mostly) or those quests should be made repeatable.  All the rest of the gear that the new class could wear via requirements (if the gear is works on SKs and Pallys then it would work on the new character assuming an SK -> Pally trade) or it would be NO-TRADE in inventory available for transmuting.  All MC+ skills would be NO-TRADE books available for transmuting.  That way the character still must regear but doesn't lose the loot they acquired.  While transmuting useless gear might not be the best solution, it is still better than wasting it and would help create new adornments.</p>

Jrral
05-25-2010, 02:19 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>No its not the same at all.</p><p>There isn't a different crafting game when you become a level 90 Armorer.  Its the exact same crafting game all along.</p></blockquote><p>Actually, as one who's got multiple level 90 crafters, it is a very different process at 90 than at 1-20. Early on the bulk of your progress comes from what you get every tick, you're constantly fighting to maintain durability while keeping the progress bar going, a blown counter can mean losing the combine, and power's often a major issue. You have to use power regen totems constantly, and you have to learn a lot of tricks (like dropping all your gear to minimize your power pool) to keep from digging yourself into a hole on every combine.</p><p>By the time you're in T9 the bulk of your progress is coming from your reaction arts. A blown counter, or even several, are pretty much ignorable. You can occasionally get into trouble with durability but 9 times out of 10 you can counter events, hit a progress art or two and finish the combine with plenty of durability to spare. You've got so much power regen that you only notice your power bar when you're fully adventure-geared and buffed and using the cross-skill arts outside your normal skill (eg. for the SF crafting questlines). Add to that all the crafting gear you've gotten (at a minimum your master cloak and earring, Mara charm item and tinkered charm item) and you can pretty much not bother with any of the tricks you learned in the early tiers.</p><p>But the fact that you don't need any of those tricks doesn't mean you didn't learn anything levelling up. You learned, for instance, what sequence of reaction arts works best for you and what cadence lets you get in all your arts every tick while still being ready for when an event can occur (which is really useful when you're running a rush-order writ or need to get stuff made fast for someone who needs it). By crafting for yourself and others you learn which items are most useful for which classes. And when you hit the crafting missions you do need to pull out those old tricks because you'll likely need to do combines for other crafting classes where you're right back to T1 or T2 again, fighting for durability and having "oh crap" moments as you realize you're almost out of power.</p>

Andok
05-25-2010, 02:22 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It <em>is </em>fundamentally the same because you are bypassing a part of the game.  I get that you guys want to buy your way past a part of the game you find tedious; however, what you find fun and/or tedious doesn't hold true for everyone.</p></blockquote><p>No one is saying it does hold true for everyone, but there is a very large population that only plays at cap that it does hold true for.</p><p>Its less about bypassing a part of the game, as it is bypassing a pre-requisite playstyle to get to the playstyle we enjoy.</p><p>For years in this game, we ran a regular monday night alt group that ground dungeons and heritages to level up alts.  Once the AA system grew to the point it was in EoF, we abandoned this group as we were ending up with max level characters that were completely nutered.  Since those days they amount of the nuetering missing AA has doubled or trippled.</p><p>If we could return to the alt group non-questing progression and end up at max level with reasonable aa and time spent, the issue of class changing wouldn't be as significant, as we'd be playing roughly the same playstyle leveling as we will play at cap.</p><p>The removal of the viability of that cohesive progression is what drives drives the need for the ability to switch vs repeat.</p></blockquote><p>And I'm not disagreeing with any of that.  In fact, I think allowing people to buy 90th level/200AA characters on SC would bring more players to the game.</p><p>I still maintain, however, that if we allow one type of player to bypass content that they find tedious, we need to do it for all types of players.  You can buy your AAs, I can buy my 90th level crafter, and someone else could buy their raid update/drop.</p></blockquote><p>I'm not sure I disagree with you, but the crafting is different.  I think your point would be more valid if say you leveled an armourer to 90 to gear your pally.  Then when you got your pally to 90/250 and realized that armourer didn't benefit you that you wanted to have a provisioner then the switch would be the same as a class change.</p><p>It seems to me there is a pretty big difference between changing a class or profession at level and just buying a leveled character.</p><p><strong>I'm not really a raider anymore, but the important point, for me at least, in this conversation is that people get to play the game how they like.  So if raiders want something on the cash shop, or via in game mechanism, to make their raiding more fun, then why not let them.  I want to have a viable gaming experience the way I play (crafting, solo, small group) and so I'm all for other players having a fulfilling gaming experience.  It makes my gaming world richer and provides better revenue for further game development.</strong></p><p><strong>At this point I realize cash shops are here.  If something can be added to the shop to make the game more fun for some (or all) and it doesn't make the overall game experience less fun then I'm all for it.</strong></p><p>Also someone asked whether gear, skills, etc should transfer over with the character.  I would say all gear than comes from non-repeatable quests should be transferred (class quest stuff mostly) or those quests should be made repeatable.  All the rest of the gear that the new class could wear via requirements (if the gear is works on SKs and Pallys then it would work on the new character assuming an SK -> Pally trade) or it would be NO-TRADE in inventory available for transmuting.  All MC+ skills would be NO-TRADE books available for transmuting.  That way the character still must regear but doesn't lose the loot they acquired.  While transmuting useless gear might not be the best solution, it is still better than wasting it and would help create new adornments.</p></blockquote><p>Yes, I agree that crafting is different from adventuring, and that a class change is different than getting a 90th level character without ever leveling one.  Still, since all of those are bypassing a part of the game, they are fundamentally the same.</p><p>The part of your quote that I highlighted is really what I’m getting at.  I’m all for letting raiders bypass a part of the game that they dislike, but I am also for letting everyone else bypass parts of the game they dislike.  It needs to be all or nothing.</p>

Crismorn
05-25-2010, 02:44 PM
<p><cite>Aldhissla wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Stop begging for easy mode. Suggestions like these make me sick.</p></blockquote><p>How about you learn to play the class you log in daily before you bring up the term easy mode or anything to that effect.</p><p>Crappy players make me sick, sadly thats more then 95% of this games population</p>

Fyranaer
05-25-2010, 02:47 PM
<p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><strong><em></em></strong></p><p>Yes, I agree that crafting is different from adventuring, and that a class change is different than getting a 90th level character without ever leveling one.  Still, since all of those are bypassing a part of the game, they are fundamentally the same.</p><p>The part of your quote that I highlighted is really what I’m getting at.  I’m all for letting raiders bypass a part of the game that they dislike, but I am also for letting everyone else bypass parts of the game they dislike.  It needs to be all or nothing.</p></blockquote><p>I absolutely agree with you.  What is good for one is good for all.</p>

Rahatmattata
05-25-2010, 03:02 PM
<p>While I think you guys will be sorely disappointed waiting for a class change potion, if there was one, I think it should be around 65 bucks and just change you class, nothing else.</p><p>After that it's common sense. So, if you are a guardian from Qeynos and change to a shadowknight... you obviously lose all masters/adepts/etc a shadowknight can't use. So you would keep like rescue and intercede. Your faction with Qeynos would be negative, you would have to gain faction with an evil city to live there, or just move to Maj'Dul. Your AAs and completed quests and tradeskill class would stay the same - can't repeat non-repeatable quests even if you change class... too bad. Couldn't equip the myth, or Hooloh's hat, or other non-shadowknight gear you might have. God might abandon you depending on which one you worship. And any other obvious changes that would need to be made can pretty much follow common sense logic.</p><p>Oh yea, and you guys that solo from 1-90 because there are no groups: I'm glad I don't play on whatever server you are playing on.</p>

Yimway
05-25-2010, 03:06 PM
<p><cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Oh yea, and you guys that solo from 1-90 because there are no groups: I'm glad I don't play on whatever server you are playing on.</p></blockquote><p>There would be groups if grinding in grouping was a path to max level/aa.</p><p>Since grouping is a slower path than the soloquest adnausium (at most levels), they aren't a popular choice with veteran players on alts.</p>

tomdykins
05-25-2010, 03:23 PM
<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Aldhissla wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Stop begging for easy mode. Suggestions like these make me sick.</p></blockquote><p>How about you learn to play the class you log in daily before you bring up the term easy mode or anything to that effect.</p><p>Crappy players make me sick, sadly thats more then 95% of this games population</p></blockquote><p>lol why do they make you sick? seems like a strange reaction to someone not being as good as you at a computer game. more than 95% of the population make you sick? playing must be awful for you...</p>

Crismorn
05-25-2010, 03:26 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Aldhissla wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Stop begging for easy mode. Suggestions like these make me sick.</p></blockquote><p>How about you learn to play the class you log in daily before you bring up the term easy mode or anything to that effect.</p><p>Crappy players make me sick, sadly thats more then 95% of this games population</p></blockquote><p>lol why do they make you sick? seems like a strange reaction to someone not being as good as you at a computer game. more than 95% of the population make you sick? playing must be awful for you...</p></blockquote><p>Because they make this game look difficult.</p><p>Luckily I surrounded myself with a bunch of the >5% crowd.</p>

SpiderlingBane
05-25-2010, 03:29 PM
<p>If I use a class change potion to switch my 90/200 inquisitor into a 90/200 wizard or guardian or whatever, what exactly did I bypass?  I did the soloquest grind on that character already.  Nothing is being skipped.  I killed all those countless rats and bats and bears already.</p>

Crismorn
05-25-2010, 03:34 PM
<p><cite>SpiderlingBane wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If I use a class change potion to switch my 90/200 inquisitor into a 90/200 wizard or guardian or whatever, what exactly did I bypass?  I did the soloquest grind on that character already.  Nothing is being skipped.  I killed all those countless rats and bats and bears already.</p></blockquote><p>The main problem in this thread is how everyone against this idea somehow thinks getting 90/250 is some sort of accomplishment when in reality a chimp could have done the same task.</p><p>Mundane does not = difficult it just ='s time consuming</p>

Wingrider01
05-25-2010, 04:18 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Wingrider01 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Cause I strongly believe there is NOTHING learned 1-80 that can't/isn't learned 80-90.</p><p>The real learning begins at level cap, before that its very rudimentary as far as skill and application.</p></blockquote><p>grouped with a healer that probably subscribed to your method of learning their class in cella - was one of the worst runs we have every had, 20 deaths latter the healer finally got disgusted and left, reapirs for the 21st time picked up a different healer that we knew started in Qeynos and made it through on the first try.</p></blockquote><p>And your complaint in my opinion only validates what I said.  You had a healer that did the ad nausieum and got to cap and still didn't know how to play. </p><p>The result would have been exactly the same had the healer started the game at level 80. </p><p>I would however contend, and experienced level 90 that used a potion to change from say a tank to a healer would have done a better job than the healer in your cella group, as they would have already understood the game.</p></blockquote><p>We found out later he had never healed a group and was leveld by following behind a group of mentored level 90's that  power leveled hin so if you call power leveling with little group interaction to learn how to correctly keep a group going in a high end instance validating your theory - I agree, if you mean something else then no I do not agree that it validated your ideals.</p><p>Sorry, I do not believe you at all with the potion, power leveled toons already how little to kno practical expierence in playing the class correctly, just how to follow behind the mentored level 90 and get aa and expierence with no idea what each spell does or how to use it.</p><p>As I mentioned the Staples logo indication is a perfect addition to this thread.</p>

Yimway
05-25-2010, 05:37 PM
<p><cite>Wingrider01 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>And your complaint in my opinion only validates what I said.  You had a healer that did the ad nausieum and got to cap and still didn't know how to play. </p><p>The result would have been exactly the same had the healer started the game at level 80. </p><p>I would however contend, and experienced level 90 that used a potion to change from say a tank to a healer would have done a better job than the healer in your cella group, as they would have already understood the game.</p></blockquote><p>We found out later he had never healed a group and was leveld by following behind a group of mentored level 90's that  power leveled hin so if you call power leveling with little group interaction to learn how to correctly keep a group going in a high end instance validating your theory - I agree, if you mean something else then no I do not agree that it validated your ideals.</p><p>Sorry, I do not believe you at all with the potion, power leveled toons already how little to kno practical expierence in playing the class correctly, just how to follow behind the mentored level 90 and get aa and expierence with no idea what each spell does or how to use it.</p><p>As I mentioned the Staples logo indication is a perfect addition to this thread.</p></blockquote><p>I assure you, most players already competent at class A in end game can play class C or D as well as half the population that plays them as a main already.  It really isn't a basis on whether or not a class change should be possible or not.</p><p>Most experienced fantasy mmo players can get a minimum proficiency with an eq2 class in less than 8 hours play time.  People new to fantasy MMO's will require longer time and more coaching.  But now we're just talking about player skill and effort, which again isn't tested or proven by reaching level 90. </p><p>You don't really know if the player can do the content till you group/raid with them.  My assertion is the people that can do it, could also have done it without level 1-90 given they've already played the game as an alternate class.  I simply can not see how you could claim any class in this game is complicated enough to play that an experienced player couldn't reach 80% efficacy within 8 hours of time in the class.</p><p>Players who can't reach it in that time, probably wont reach it in 80, or 160, or even 800 hours.</p><p>You can gibe and say asking to apply the work you've already done to an alternate class is asking for an easy button, but when players ultimately make the decision to replay content they hate vs moving on to a new game, it isn't hard to see we could retain more veteran players by being more accomidating to the work they've already done (as well as earn additional revenue).</p>