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gauged
05-18-2010, 01:42 AM
<p>After the next update and half of Naggy population is playing a locked lowbie SK, will you finally allow those who want to transfer to PvE to do so? </p><p>And enough with the usual, "no it's not possible, the coding is different, yadda yadda..." There have been instances of people finding ways around it for years, especially with those who not-so-long-ago used transfer tokens while inside BGs.</p><p>Allowing it just makes more money for SoE in the long run! come on!</p><p>Thanks.</p>

Eritius
05-18-2010, 04:19 AM
<p>Yeah they kinda do have to admit that the coding is not a good answer considering that we get temporarly ported to the same server during a BG match.</p><p>Heck WoW allows PVP to PVE and vice versa these days. There's a precedent right there for a whole new can of worms.</p>

Priddles
05-18-2010, 04:25 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yeah they kinda do have to admit that the coding is not a good answer considering that we get temporarly ported to the same server during a BG match.</p><p>Heck WoW allows PVP to PVE and vice versa these days. There's a precedent right there for a whole new can of worms.</p></blockquote><p>They do now, but before they said for a long, long time that they would never allow players to transfer between PvP and PvE. Then they simply saw the money they were missing out on and waffled overnight.</p>

gauged
05-18-2010, 10:43 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yeah they kinda do have to admit that the coding is not a good answer considering that we get temporarly ported to the same server during a BG match.</p><p>Heck WoW allows PVP to PVE and vice versa these days. There's a precedent right there for a whole new can of worms.</p></blockquote><p>They do now, but before they said for a long, long time that they would never allow players to transfer between PvP and PvE. Then they simply saw the money they were missing out on and waffled overnight.</p></blockquote><p>I hope SoE "waffles"...</p>

Mary the Prophetess
05-18-2010, 10:54 PM
<p>Pharaoh.  Let my people go.</p>

Sapphy
05-18-2010, 11:54 PM
<p>Do you think if they do they'll allow Vox players to transfer too?  I know there are a lot of people here who really want transfers or a merger to be allowed since the server has lost a lot of momentum and activity lately... </p><p>Edit: Obviously the eq2 team has been under a lot of stress lately making constant revisions to gameplay, looking at feedback, and preparing for the upcoming expansion, which is all very kwl.  I wouldn't want to press it except that the issue seems to be very timely keeping constant the latest changes in guild structures and raiding ability, player activity, morale, freeport/qeynos side balances, and as a result pvp.  Regardless of what soe determines to be the best solution, I think it would help a lot here if they looked more closely at the state of the server, considered new options to revitalize play and worked around its perceived limitations as an exchange and pvp server.</p>

baldwinboy3
05-19-2010, 12:40 PM
<p>I have all my toons on Naggy. I think vox should be merged to naggy. I dont care if they purchased their coin or character even spells and gear. Let them come to nagafen tbh</p>

Captain Apple Darkberry
05-19-2010, 12:47 PM
<p><cite>Mary the Prophetess wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Pharaoh.  Let my people go.</p></blockquote><p>^</p>

gauged
05-19-2010, 01:54 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Mary the Prophetess wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Pharaoh.  Let my people go.</p></blockquote><p>^</p></blockquote><p>^^</p>

Sprin
05-20-2010, 07:29 AM
<p><cite>gauged wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>After the next update and half of Naggy population is playing a locked lowbie SK</p></blockquote><p>uhhhhh....</p><p>you not logged in to the game for a while?  lets say, like for a year? </p><p>I'm not quite sure what world you play in, but in everyone elses world, this happened a year ago</p>

Edavi
05-20-2010, 11:57 AM
<p>Dear SOE, you are killing PVP.. See Above.</p>

skidmark
05-20-2010, 12:35 PM
<p>I have toons on Vox and Nagafen, please don't merge the two. What I love about Vox is, if I get tired of a toon, I don't have to delete him, I can sell him. At least get a little change back for the time invested.</p>

baldwinboy3
05-21-2010, 11:06 AM
<p>OMG sorry to step on your making money from eq2 sales, we will just let the rest of the server keep qq for a merge beacuse your busy making money from it.</p>

Sapphy
05-22-2010, 05:18 AM
<p><cite>baldwinboy3 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have all my toons on Naggy. I think vox should be merged to naggy. I dont care if they purchased their coin or character even spells and gear. Let them come to nagafen tbh</p></blockquote><p>Yea totally <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> I'm not sure why the pvp/exchange status would be a preventative to transfers and mergers apart from legal reasons (if they exist) since they already have ok'd cross server contact through bgs.  It seems weird to say that it would be ok to interact in a pvp setting but not for pve.  Personally I think a merge with nagafen would be pretty neat (they could include a transfer option to bazaar too for ppl who are attatched to the exchange status if its an issue) </p>

Surculus
05-23-2010, 05:24 AM
<p>Heh, been barking up this tree for years. Good Luck.</p><p>SOE seems to take pride in ruining their game and generally make their main source of income unhappy.</p><p>C'mon, give us the transfers, you want to be like wow no? You'll make some money, I know you like the sound of that.</p><p>*makes a Ka-ching sound*</p><p>Bet that made you quiver.</p><p>-waits for the ever right forum babysitters to throw their two cents in.-</p>

baldwinboy3
05-24-2010, 09:47 AM
<p>Can any dev weigh in on this topic? I would like to know the real reason vox does not merge with nagafen?</p><p>Thanks,</p>

MaCloud1032
05-24-2010, 10:39 AM
Because your station exchange its as easy as that.

kukubird
05-24-2010, 03:04 PM
<p>More rmt happens on naggy then the exchange servers lol.  If you disagree you are just kidding yourself.  SOE needs to get smart and just make all servers exchange.  That or actually clean up the garbage rmt on the non exchange servers and force them onto the designated rmt servers.</p><p>Ohh that and put in some plat sinks.  Wait that will never happen either.</p>

Eritius
05-24-2010, 03:51 PM
<p>I just thought of something. WoW let PVP transfer to PVE long before they allowed PVE to PVP. The latter only happened because the PVP servers matured (or devolved?) past ganking lowbies as they leveled (remember level 80s can attack level 1s outside major cities). It still happens, but not on the scale that actually makes leveling more difficult.</p><p>But yes, SOE should consider PVP to PVE at the very least. Unless they don't want the populations totally going to zilch on those servers. Personally I'm of the opinion that World-based PVP is an outdated system for progression based MMO's. Organized PVP (BGs) is much better if and when the incentives for winning make it so people don't intentionally lose. I know many would disagree with me, but try this, go out into contested areas and tell me how many PVP fights you get into in the next hour, I'll queue up for the BG and we'll compare results. I'll even say this, let me go on a PVE-RP server on WoW and flag up and I'll bet I can find more world pvp then you can in a EQ PVP server.</p>

gauged
06-08-2010, 02:58 PM
<p>good thread...</p>

Taldier
06-08-2010, 03:22 PM
<p><cite>baldwinboy3 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Can any dev weigh in on this topic? I would like to know the real reason vox does not merge with nagafen?</p><p>Thanks,</p></blockquote><p>Sorry to say the folks on vox are probably just screwed.</p><p>SOE doesnt control the exchange services on exchange servers afaik.</p><p>They would most likely have to pay a sizable amount of money to break the contract.</p><p>Still doesnt provide any reason why pve <--> pvp isnt allowed in general though.</p>

Taldier
06-08-2010, 03:35 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>....</p><p> Personally I'm of the opinion that World-based PVP is an outdated system for progression based MMO's. Organized PVP (BGs) is much better if and when the incentives for winning make it so people don't intentionally lose. I know many would disagree with me, but try this, go out into contested areas and tell me how many PVP fights you get into in the next hour, I'll queue up for the BG and we'll compare results. I'll even say this, let me go on a PVE-RP server on WoW and flag up and I'll bet I can find more world pvp then you can in a EQ PVP server.</p></blockquote><p>This is one of the worst arguments I've seen.  You arent attempting to prove that one is better than the other.</p><p>All you state is that, given options to achieve an objective, the majority of players will take the route which requires the least effort.</p><p>This is simply a statement of human nature that many game designers fail miserably at understanding while they are designing reward systems.  If soe were to stop coming out with new versions of bg gear the vast majority of the bg's population would dry up.</p><p>Whereas we already know for a fact that open pvp servers existed for years without requireing any form of direct effort ---> reward system to subsidize them.</p><p>One is fun, the other is the pvp equivalent of harvesting.  Sure pretty much everyone did it, but if they made a guild hall amenity that handed out bg tokens, 90% of people would stop wasting their time.</p>

MaCloud1032
06-08-2010, 03:57 PM
In terms of open world if the field between the haves and the have nots was more balanced we would see more open world battles. I grew up in the KoS pvp era. Yes there was broke things but during KoS/EoF it was pretty balanced. The PvE gear was atainable to pretty much everyone and so was the PvP. I shouldn't have to farm the BG's to be able to not get one shotted in the open world. I shouldt have to live in instances/raids to get gear to prevent a one shot either. I dunno what needs to be done. The only reason iam on naggy is because of my friends and I can't trasfer off. Rerolling isn't an option simply because darksavanna is my toon I can't replace him by rerolling.

Neskonlith
06-08-2010, 04:02 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Whereas we already know for a fact that open pvp servers existed for years without requireing any form of direct effort ---> reward system to subsidize them.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">During that time, open-pvp was a fluffy timefiller that was often dead in the water and the forums littered with complaints from hardcores asking SOE to find a way to force everyone out of instances to be available for farming, and Venekor was merged into Nagafen due to declining population.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">It took TSO revamp to spark the casual majority interest in open-pvp.</span></p>

Taldier
06-08-2010, 06:24 PM
<p><cite>Neskonlith wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Whereas we already know for a fact that open pvp servers existed for years without requireing any form of direct effort ---> reward system to subsidize them.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">During that time, open-pvp was a fluffy timefiller that was often dead in the water and the forums littered with complaints from hardcores asking SOE to find a way to force everyone out of instances to be available for farming, and Venekor was merged into Nagafen due to declining population.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">It took TSO revamp to spark the casual majority interest in open-pvp.</span></p></blockquote><p>The issues that pvp has always been plagued by have been class balances, poorly thought out itemization, and general complaints about mechanics.  The forums were not at any point littered with complaints that we didnt have enough minigames to play while killing each other.</p><p>All of these things have been sidelined in favor of the new dev motto of "creating pvp content" when the only "content" that needs to be created for pvp is for people to have a game that functions well enough for them to fight each other in it.</p><p>And honestly as the hundreds of players in warfields should prove, the only reason we dont have venekor anymore is the original decision to allow half its population to transfer freely to what was at the time a very slightly higher (possibly even slightly lower) pop server, starting the slow inexorable unabated spiral into hopelessness and oblivion.</p><p>TSO brought with it the proliferation of instances, which make any server population appear to be a small fraction of what it really is, this was a drastic blow to the visible population of the game in general and far worse to open pvp which relies on the interaction of the visible population.</p><p>As I pointed out, it is a simple matter of human nature that the numbers of pvpers increase if it is easier to "win".  By ensuring that merely striking another player with a ranged attack before they die was forever redefined as "winning" by the collective conciousness of the playerbase, the revamps with writs predictably generated the zergs at both ls docks and tg.</p><p>What we have now, 20 poorly played q's chasing individual players across zones to "defeat" them in over lagged warfields while another 50 stand afk next to a tower for their free 15 tokens, is merely the end result of these trends.</p>

Nemas Ravenor
06-08-2010, 10:10 PM
<p>why does anyone want to transfer servers?  There isn't any content in this game anymore that hasn't been done a gazillion times or is remotely challenging save for some of the hard raid content.  And if you want to raid then there are a handful of raiding guilds still left on Nagafen you can join.</p><p>The content in the isntances created for SF was easily defeated the day we hit 90 and still had all of our level 80 TSO gear and T8 spells.  There has not been any challenge to this game for a very long time, but even back in EOF there was a reason to do instances and open dungeons because class gear was semi rare and dropped from contested mobs.  It took months to get PVP gear (unless you were a ranger) and you had to work at your character to achieve any real advances.</p><p>That by the way is what we called "Fun."</p>

Kram337
06-09-2010, 09:26 AM
<p>Hey yea PLEASE PLEASE let us transfer between pvp/pve. We've asked for this for years. The "coding" excuse is completely bogus. We've known that since day one =/</p><p>And I think the pvp community is at a point where we dont care about the "you can't just come here at 90, you have to suffer through 89 other levels of really bad/lame pvp like the rest of us!" concept. It's stupid and we know it. There are a few good tier's of pvp out there, but certainly not the last one <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Anyway, PLEASE open up transfers!</p>

Cantor
06-09-2010, 10:06 AM
<p><cite>Edavi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Dear SOE, you are killing PVP.. See Above.</p></blockquote><p>+1</p>

MaCloud1032
06-09-2010, 10:20 AM
The coding excuse went out the door when they put in BG's. Untill those I was content with the excuse.

gauged
06-09-2010, 12:17 PM
<p>It was always a garbage excuse</p>

MaCloud1032
06-09-2010, 12:20 PM
True but it was buyable

alabama
06-09-2010, 12:28 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite></cite></p><p><span style="font-size: medium; color: #ff0000;">All of these things have been sidelined in favor of the new dev motto of "creating pvp content" when the only "content" that needs to be created for pvp is for people to have a game that functions well enough for them to fight each other in it.</span></p></blockquote><p>BING BANG POW!</p>

gauged
06-09-2010, 04:26 PM
<p><cite>Nemas Ravenor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>why does anyone want to transfer servers?  There isn't any content in this game anymore that hasn't been done a gazillion times or is remotely challenging save for some of the hard raid content.  And if you want to raid then there are a handful of raiding guilds still left on Nagafen you can join.</p><p>The content in the isntances created for SF was easily defeated the day we hit 90 and still had all of our level 80 TSO gear and T8 spells.  There has not been any challenge to this game for a very long time, but even back in EOF there was a reason to do instances and open dungeons because class gear was semi rare and dropped from contested mobs.  It took months to get PVP gear (unless you were a ranger) and you had to work at your character to achieve any real advances.</p><p>That by the way is what we called "Fun."</p></blockquote><p>Some people want to transfer off of pvp because it's no longer enjoyable. I for one, have already rerolled on AB, but would love to have my main toon transfered that I've been playing for 4 years now.</p><p>People always have this simple solution of "reroll", but when you invest so much time in 1 main toon, it's not that simple.</p>