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View Full Version : FIX DAMAGE REDUCTION (Battle Hardening, etc)


Portbott
05-17-2010, 10:49 PM
<p>I know there's a "fix" going in for this, so that is can only negate 50% or so of max damage. But the ability is more broken than that. For a 62 zerker, the ability reads that is will negate by up to 128. My level 70 ranger's bow reads 678-2259 damage.</p><p>Before he specced into this AA-</p><p>(1274050744)[Sun May 16 18:59:04 2010] YOU hit Rriot for 636 piercing damage.(1274050744)[Sun May 16 18:59:04 2010] YOU try to zap Rriot with Greater Rune of Blasting, but Rriot resists.(1274050744)[Sun May 16 18:59:04 2010] YOU try to zap Rriot with Greater Rune of Blasting, but Rriot resists.(1274050744)[Sun May 16 18:59:04 2010] Your Loa'Sur snake venom afflicts Rriot!(1274050744)[Sun May 16 18:59:04 2010] YOUR Poisoned Seeds hits Rriot for 219 poison damage.(1274050744)[Sun May 16 18:59:04 2010] Your warding ebb afflicts Rriot!(1274050744)[Sun May 16 18:59:04 2010] You begin to move with frightening alacrity!(1274050744)[Sun May 16 18:59:04 2010] YOUR Tenderwood Sliver hits Rriot for 5 piercing damage.(1274050744)[Sun May 16 18:59:04 2010] YOUR Quick Shot hits Rriot for 135 piercing damage.(1274050744)[Sun May 16 18:59:04 2010] YOUR Makeshift Arrow hits Rriot for 93 piercing damage.(1274050744)[Sun May 16 18:59:04 2010] YOU double attack Rriot for 908 piercing damage.</p><p>One auto attack. After he specced into this AA-</p><p>(1274146760)[Mon May 17 21:39:20 2010] YOU hit Rriot but fail to inflict any damage.(1274146760)[Mon May 17 21:39:20 2010] Rriot's Ward of Resistance absorbs 24 points of damage from being done to Rriot.(1274146760)[Mon May 17 21:39:20 2010] YOUR Greater Rune of Blasting hits Rriot for 443 magic damage.(1274146760)[Mon May 17 21:39:20 2010] YOUR vitality breach hits Rriot for 107 poison damage.(1274146760)[Mon May 17 21:39:20 2010] YOUR vitality breach heals YOU for 142 hit points.(1274146760)[Mon May 17 21:39:20 2010] YOUR Scale Slice hits Rriot but fails to inflict any damage.(1274146760)[Mon May 17 21:39:20 2010] YOUR Tenderwood Sliver hits Rriot but fails to inflict any damage.</p><p>(1274146765)[Mon May 17 21:39:25 2010] YOU hit Rriot but fail to inflict any damage.(1274146765)[Mon May 17 21:39:25 2010] YOU try to zap Rriot with Greater Rune of Blasting, but Rriot resists.(1274146765)[Mon May 17 21:39:25 2010] Rriot's Ward of Resistance absorbs 28 points of damage from being done to Rriot.(1274146765)[Mon May 17 21:39:25 2010] YOUR vitality breach hits Rriot for 78 poison damage.(1274146765)[Mon May 17 21:39:25 2010] YOUR vitality breach heals YOU for 142 hit points.(1274146765)[Mon May 17 21:39:25 2010] YOUR Tenderwood Sliver hits Rriot but fails to inflict any damage.(1274146765)[Mon May 17 21:39:25 2010] YOUR Quick Shot hits Rriot but fails to inflict any damage.(127414676<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />[Mon May 17 21:39:28 2010] Rriot's Lambent Rejuvenation heals Rriot for 56 hit points.(1274146769)[Mon May 17 21:39:29 2010] Rriot's Ward of Resistance regenerates 50 points of absorption.(1274146771)[Mon May 17 21:39:31 2010] YOU try to pierce Rriot, but Rriot blocks.(1274146771)[Mon May 17 21:39:31 2010] Rriot's Ward of Resistance absorbs 38 points of damage from being done to Rriot.(1274146771)[Mon May 17 21:39:31 2010] YOU critically double attack Rriot for 135 piercing damage.</p><p>So, understanding that there is a 50% damage reduction cap going in, it's merely a blanket fix. The ability is still negating more damage than it should. I'm going to guess that after the fix, I'll actually be able to do some damage, but it will be 50% reduced on top of his physical mit and what not. If the ability reads that it will negate 128 damage, make it negate 128 damage. Not all of it.</p><p>Put in a real fix for this. Not just stick a 50% reduction cap on it.</p>

Hallowell
05-18-2010, 04:50 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I know there's a "fix" going in for this, so that is can only negate 50% or so of max damage. But the ability is more broken than that. For a 62 zerker, the ability reads that is will negate by up to 128. My level 70 ranger's bow reads 678-2259 damage.</p><p>Before he specced into this AA-</p><p>(1274050744)[Sun May 16 18:59:04 2010] YOU hit Rriot for 636 piercing damage.(1274050744)[Sun May 16 18:59:04 2010] YOU try to zap Rriot with Greater Rune of Blasting, but Rriot resists.(1274050744)[Sun May 16 18:59:04 2010] YOU try to zap Rriot with Greater Rune of Blasting, but Rriot resists.(1274050744)[Sun May 16 18:59:04 2010] Your Loa'Sur snake venom afflicts Rriot!(1274050744)[Sun May 16 18:59:04 2010] YOUR Poisoned Seeds hits Rriot for 219 poison damage.(1274050744)[Sun May 16 18:59:04 2010] Your warding ebb afflicts Rriot!(1274050744)[Sun May 16 18:59:04 2010] You begin to move with frightening alacrity!(1274050744)[Sun May 16 18:59:04 2010] YOUR Tenderwood Sliver hits Rriot for 5 piercing damage.(1274050744)[Sun May 16 18:59:04 2010] YOUR Quick Shot hits Rriot for 135 piercing damage.(1274050744)[Sun May 16 18:59:04 2010] YOUR Makeshift Arrow hits Rriot for 93 piercing damage.(1274050744)[Sun May 16 18:59:04 2010] YOU double attack Rriot for 908 piercing damage.</p><p>One auto attack. After he specced into this AA-</p><p>(1274146760)[Mon May 17 21:39:20 2010] YOU hit Rriot but fail to inflict any damage.(1274146760)[Mon May 17 21:39:20 2010] Rriot's Ward of Resistance absorbs 24 points of damage from being done to Rriot.(1274146760)[Mon May 17 21:39:20 2010] YOUR Greater Rune of Blasting hits Rriot for 443 magic damage.(1274146760)[Mon May 17 21:39:20 2010] YOUR vitality breach hits Rriot for 107 poison damage.(1274146760)[Mon May 17 21:39:20 2010] YOUR vitality breach heals YOU for 142 hit points.(1274146760)[Mon May 17 21:39:20 2010] YOUR Scale Slice hits Rriot but fails to inflict any damage.(1274146760)[Mon May 17 21:39:20 2010] YOUR Tenderwood Sliver hits Rriot but fails to inflict any damage.</p><p>(1274146765)[Mon May 17 21:39:25 2010] YOU hit Rriot but fail to inflict any damage.(1274146765)[Mon May 17 21:39:25 2010] YOU try to zap Rriot with Greater Rune of Blasting, but Rriot resists.(1274146765)[Mon May 17 21:39:25 2010] Rriot's Ward of Resistance absorbs 28 points of damage from being done to Rriot.(1274146765)[Mon May 17 21:39:25 2010] YOUR vitality breach hits Rriot for 78 poison damage.(1274146765)[Mon May 17 21:39:25 2010] YOUR vitality breach heals YOU for 142 hit points.(1274146765)[Mon May 17 21:39:25 2010] YOUR Tenderwood Sliver hits Rriot but fails to inflict any damage.(1274146765)[Mon May 17 21:39:25 2010] YOUR Quick Shot hits Rriot but fails to inflict any damage.(127414676<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" />[Mon May 17 21:39:28 2010] Rriot's Lambent Rejuvenation heals Rriot for 56 hit points.(1274146769)[Mon May 17 21:39:29 2010] Rriot's Ward of Resistance regenerates 50 points of absorption.(1274146771)[Mon May 17 21:39:31 2010] YOU try to pierce Rriot, but Rriot blocks.(1274146771)[Mon May 17 21:39:31 2010] Rriot's Ward of Resistance absorbs 38 points of damage from being done to Rriot.(1274146771)[Mon May 17 21:39:31 2010] YOU critically double attack Rriot for 135 piercing damage.</p><p>So, understanding that there is a 50% damage reduction cap going in, it's merely a blanket fix. The ability is still negating more damage than it should. I'm going to guess that after the fix, I'll actually be able to do some damage, but it will be 50% reduced on top of his physical mit and what not. If the ability reads that it will negate 128 damage, make it negate 128 damage. Not all of it.</p><p>Put in a real fix for this. Not just stick a 50% reduction cap on it.</p></blockquote><p>Yes battle hardening definately should be fixed. But the bow mechanics should also <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> take a look:</p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=478174">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=478174</a></p>

Portbott
05-18-2010, 09:05 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I know there's a "fix" going in for this, so that is can only negate 50% or so of max damage. But the ability is more broken than that. For a 62 zerker, the ability reads that is will negate by up to 128. My level 70 ranger's bow reads 678-2259 damage.</p><p>Before he specced into this AA-</p><p>(1274050744)[Sun May 16 18:59:04 2010] YOU hit Rriot for 636 piercing damage.(1274050744)[Sun May 16 18:59:04 2010] YOU try to zap Rriot with Greater Rune of Blasting, but Rriot resists.(1274050744)[Sun May 16 18:59:04 2010] YOU try to zap Rriot with Greater Rune of Blasting, but Rriot resists.(1274050744)[Sun May 16 18:59:04 2010] Your Loa'Sur snake venom afflicts Rriot!(1274050744)[Sun May 16 18:59:04 2010] YOUR Poisoned Seeds hits Rriot for 219 poison damage.(1274050744)[Sun May 16 18:59:04 2010] Your warding ebb afflicts Rriot!(1274050744)[Sun May 16 18:59:04 2010] You begin to move with frightening alacrity!(1274050744)[Sun May 16 18:59:04 2010] YOUR Tenderwood Sliver hits Rriot for 5 piercing damage.(1274050744)[Sun May 16 18:59:04 2010] YOUR Quick Shot hits Rriot for 135 piercing damage.(1274050744)[Sun May 16 18:59:04 2010] YOUR Makeshift Arrow hits Rriot for 93 piercing damage.(1274050744)[Sun May 16 18:59:04 2010] YOU double attack Rriot for 908 piercing damage.</p><p>One auto attack. After he specced into this AA-</p><p>(1274146760)[Mon May 17 21:39:20 2010] YOU hit Rriot but fail to inflict any damage.(1274146760)[Mon May 17 21:39:20 2010] Rriot's Ward of Resistance absorbs 24 points of damage from being done to Rriot.(1274146760)[Mon May 17 21:39:20 2010] YOUR Greater Rune of Blasting hits Rriot for 443 magic damage.(1274146760)[Mon May 17 21:39:20 2010] YOUR vitality breach hits Rriot for 107 poison damage.(1274146760)[Mon May 17 21:39:20 2010] YOUR vitality breach heals YOU for 142 hit points.(1274146760)[Mon May 17 21:39:20 2010] YOUR Scale Slice hits Rriot but fails to inflict any damage.(1274146760)[Mon May 17 21:39:20 2010] YOUR Tenderwood Sliver hits Rriot but fails to inflict any damage.</p><p>(1274146765)[Mon May 17 21:39:25 2010] YOU hit Rriot but fail to inflict any damage.(1274146765)[Mon May 17 21:39:25 2010] YOU try to zap Rriot with Greater Rune of Blasting, but Rriot resists.(1274146765)[Mon May 17 21:39:25 2010] Rriot's Ward of Resistance absorbs 28 points of damage from being done to Rriot.(1274146765)[Mon May 17 21:39:25 2010] YOUR vitality breach hits Rriot for 78 poison damage.(1274146765)[Mon May 17 21:39:25 2010] YOUR vitality breach heals YOU for 142 hit points.(1274146765)[Mon May 17 21:39:25 2010] YOUR Tenderwood Sliver hits Rriot but fails to inflict any damage.(1274146765)[Mon May 17 21:39:25 2010] YOUR Quick Shot hits Rriot but fails to inflict any damage.(127414676<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" />[Mon May 17 21:39:28 2010] Rriot's Lambent Rejuvenation heals Rriot for 56 hit points.(1274146769)[Mon May 17 21:39:29 2010] Rriot's Ward of Resistance regenerates 50 points of absorption.(1274146771)[Mon May 17 21:39:31 2010] YOU try to pierce Rriot, but Rriot blocks.(1274146771)[Mon May 17 21:39:31 2010] Rriot's Ward of Resistance absorbs 38 points of damage from being done to Rriot.(1274146771)[Mon May 17 21:39:31 2010] YOU critically double attack Rriot for 135 piercing damage.</p><p>So, understanding that there is a 50% damage reduction cap going in, it's merely a blanket fix. The ability is still negating more damage than it should. I'm going to guess that after the fix, I'll actually be able to do some damage, but it will be 50% reduced on top of his physical mit and what not. If the ability reads that it will negate 128 damage, make it negate 128 damage. Not all of it.</p><p>Put in a real fix for this. Not just stick a 50% reduction cap on it.</p></blockquote><p>Yes battle hardening definately should be fixed. But the bow mechanics should also <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /> take a look:</p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=478174">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=478174</a></p></blockquote><p>Awesome story. Unfortunately, this thread has nothing to do with bow mechanics and the fact that I'm a ranger has nothing to do with this AA not working properly. This AA does the same thing to ALL melee damage. Your post is nothing but an attempt at derailing this thread. Keep your discussion to bow "mechanics" to that thread. Thanks.</p>

Vlahkmaak
05-19-2010, 05:05 AM
<p>Seriously - from a class that has multiple snares including fettering poison which by far is stupidly OP against tank classes your complaining that BH is broken?  Your parse does not indicate the targets mitigation.  It does not indicate your lvl of gear relative to your target.  Your procs alone mixed with fettering poison are enough to kill most non crusader tanks.  A warrior is never going to get near you because you can stack snares faster than a warrior can cure them. </p>

Roald
05-19-2010, 08:38 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Seriously - from a class that has multiple snares including fettering poison which by far is stupidly OP against tank classes your complaining that BH is broken?  Your parse does not indicate the targets mitigation.  It does not indicate your lvl of gear relative to your target.  Your procs alone mixed with fettering poison are enough to kill most non crusader tanks.  A warrior is never going to get near you because you can stack snares faster than a warrior can cure them. </p></blockquote><p>This is nothing to do with rangers. Absolutely nothing. </p><p>This is to do with an AA several classes have access to, and how borked it is in PvP. It does need fixing.</p>

Hallowell
05-19-2010, 11:02 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I know there's a "fix" going in for this, so that is can only negate 50% or so of max damage. But the ability is more broken than that. For a 62 zerker, the ability reads that is will negate by up to 128. My level 70 ranger's bow reads 678-2259 damage.</p><p>Before he specced into this AA-</p><p>(1274050744)[Sun May 16 18:59:04 2010] YOU hit Rriot for 636 piercing damage.(1274050744)[Sun May 16 18:59:04 2010] YOU try to zap Rriot with Greater Rune of Blasting, but Rriot resists.(1274050744)[Sun May 16 18:59:04 2010] YOU try to zap Rriot with Greater Rune of Blasting, but Rriot resists.(1274050744)[Sun May 16 18:59:04 2010] Your Loa'Sur snake venom afflicts Rriot!(1274050744)[Sun May 16 18:59:04 2010] YOUR Poisoned Seeds hits Rriot for 219 poison damage.(1274050744)[Sun May 16 18:59:04 2010] Your warding ebb afflicts Rriot!(1274050744)[Sun May 16 18:59:04 2010] You begin to move with frightening alacrity!(1274050744)[Sun May 16 18:59:04 2010] YOUR Tenderwood Sliver hits Rriot for 5 piercing damage.(1274050744)[Sun May 16 18:59:04 2010] YOUR Quick Shot hits Rriot for 135 piercing damage.(1274050744)[Sun May 16 18:59:04 2010] YOUR Makeshift Arrow hits Rriot for 93 piercing damage.(1274050744)[Sun May 16 18:59:04 2010] YOU double attack Rriot for 908 piercing damage.</p><p>One auto attack. After he specced into this AA-</p><p>(1274146760)[Mon May 17 21:39:20 2010] YOU hit Rriot but fail to inflict any damage.(1274146760)[Mon May 17 21:39:20 2010] Rriot's Ward of Resistance absorbs 24 points of damage from being done to Rriot.(1274146760)[Mon May 17 21:39:20 2010] YOUR Greater Rune of Blasting hits Rriot for 443 magic damage.(1274146760)[Mon May 17 21:39:20 2010] YOUR vitality breach hits Rriot for 107 poison damage.(1274146760)[Mon May 17 21:39:20 2010] YOUR vitality breach heals YOU for 142 hit points.(1274146760)[Mon May 17 21:39:20 2010] YOUR Scale Slice hits Rriot but fails to inflict any damage.(1274146760)[Mon May 17 21:39:20 2010] YOUR Tenderwood Sliver hits Rriot but fails to inflict any damage.</p><p>(1274146765)[Mon May 17 21:39:25 2010] YOU hit Rriot but fail to inflict any damage.(1274146765)[Mon May 17 21:39:25 2010] YOU try to zap Rriot with Greater Rune of Blasting, but Rriot resists.(1274146765)[Mon May 17 21:39:25 2010] Rriot's Ward of Resistance absorbs 28 points of damage from being done to Rriot.(1274146765)[Mon May 17 21:39:25 2010] YOUR vitality breach hits Rriot for 78 poison damage.(1274146765)[Mon May 17 21:39:25 2010] YOUR vitality breach heals YOU for 142 hit points.(1274146765)[Mon May 17 21:39:25 2010] YOUR Tenderwood Sliver hits Rriot but fails to inflict any damage.(1274146765)[Mon May 17 21:39:25 2010] YOUR Quick Shot hits Rriot but fails to inflict any damage.(127414676<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" />[Mon May 17 21:39:28 2010] Rriot's Lambent Rejuvenation heals Rriot for 56 hit points.(1274146769)[Mon May 17 21:39:29 2010] Rriot's Ward of Resistance regenerates 50 points of absorption.(1274146771)[Mon May 17 21:39:31 2010] YOU try to pierce Rriot, but Rriot blocks.(1274146771)[Mon May 17 21:39:31 2010] Rriot's Ward of Resistance absorbs 38 points of damage from being done to Rriot.(1274146771)[Mon May 17 21:39:31 2010] YOU critically double attack Rriot for 135 piercing damage.</p><p>So, understanding that there is a 50% damage reduction cap going in, it's merely a blanket fix. The ability is still negating more damage than it should. I'm going to guess that after the fix, I'll actually be able to do some damage, but it will be 50% reduced on top of his physical mit and what not. If the ability reads that it will negate 128 damage, make it negate 128 damage. Not all of it.</p><p>Put in a real fix for this. Not just stick a 50% reduction cap on it.</p></blockquote><p>Yes battle hardening definately should be fixed. But the bow mechanics should also <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /> take a look:</p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=478174">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=478174</a></p></blockquote><p>Awesome story. Unfortunately, this thread has nothing to do with bow mechanics and the fact that I'm a ranger has nothing to do with this AA not working properly. This AA does the same thing to ALL melee damage. Your post is nothing but an attempt at derailing this thread. Keep your discussion to bow "mechanics" to that thread. Thanks.</p></blockquote><p>You sir, are the biggest [Removed for Content] n**b if you claim that I am trying to derail the thread. I merely stated that the broken bow mechanic could have been an issue in this as well. Note "COULD"... learn to read between the lines, instead of accusing people of derailing.  So stop rage and take it as a man.. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Vlahkmaak
05-19-2010, 12:35 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Seriously - from a class that has multiple snares including fettering poison which by far is stupidly OP against tank classes your complaining that BH is broken?  Your parse does not indicate the targets mitigation.  It does not indicate your lvl of gear relative to your target.  Your procs alone mixed with fettering poison are enough to kill most non crusader tanks.  A warrior is never going to get near you because you can stack snares faster than a warrior can cure them. </p></blockquote><p>This is nothing to do with rangers. Absolutely nothing. </p><p>This is to do with an AA several classes have access to, and how borked it is in PvP. It does need fixing.</p></blockquote><p>The parse is from a ranger who claims battle hardening is OP becuase 2 hits were either mitigated or s/he did low end damage and therefore the tank took less auto attk damage from the ranger than the ranger expected.  Since the parse provided was provided by a ranger it has everything to do with a ranger.</p><p>Guardians share battle hardening with the other plate tanks and the on going campaign to find some method to nerf crusaders and zerkers by taking away battle hardening will have much more profound implications on the guardian community than any reduction to battle hardening will have to the other plate tanks.  Again - at t9 it reads UP TO 288 less physical damage will be taken.  Battle hardening is not borked and it does not need to be "fixed."  As a guardian it seem to be working as intended by shaving a small amount of physical damage off the top of the attack.</p><p>The Op states his bow hits from 678-2259. If he hits at the low end of the range after toughness and mitigation is factored in he is hitting below the battle hardening threshold and therefore will be doing little auto attk to no auto attk damage.  The problem is not battlehardening in the example provided the problem is the op is hitting "soft" and probabally needs to gear up better to hit harder.</p>

Thinwizzy
05-19-2010, 01:12 PM
<p>I think the problem may not lie with just one type of damage reduction.  By itself there is nothing wrong with battle hardening or the other reduction AAs.  When you start combining all of these that are available on top of resists, toughness, physical mitigation and crit mit it really starts to add up to be quite significant.  I think this one AA is just the tip of what is really wrong with damage in pvp.</p>

Portbott
05-19-2010, 02:26 PM
<p>Since everyone seems to have said the same thing, I'll not bother quoting, but more of respond to everyone in general. This thread has nothing to do with ranger. In fact, I have the same issue with my dirge in t9. Also, toughness has nothing to do with this as this is t7. My friend I did this with was Rriot (obviously), who is/was a 62 zerker at the time of this "test". I used the Rigid Scale Bow with no temps running. I auto attacked him a few times and pulled a few examples out.</p><p>I could have posted how every single one of my ranged damage based CA's gave me a "Fails to Inflict damage" on a nonwarded, green berzerker. He immediately left the zone, specced into this one AA, and came back with no gear changes or level changes. We did the same thing and this was the results. Damage reduction is fine in PVP, but to say that this ability isn't removing too much damage is absolutely idiotic.</p><p>Also, to whoever linked the ranger thread in this, it was an obvious derail and has nothing to do with bow mechanics, which according to that thread, makes bows insanely overpowered, which is obviously not the case.. This ability is beyond borked in PVP. You'll notice that all melee damage after he specced into it was completely negated and that only non physical damage did anything. That is with the exception to the one critical hit of 135 with a Rigid Scale Bow.</p>

Portbott
05-19-2010, 02:27 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think the problem may not lie with just one type of damage reduction.  By itself there is nothing wrong with battle hardening or the other reduction AAs.  When you start combining all of these that are available on top of resists, toughness, physical mitigation and crit mit it really starts to add up to be quite significant.  I think this one AA is just the tip of what is really wrong with damage in pvp.</p></blockquote><p>I somewhat agree. When it all adds up, we have a serious problem. This test was done in T7, so no crit mit, toughness, etc was really involved. Yes, there was physical mit, which is why I provided an example of a few hits before he specced into the ability.</p>

Portbott
05-19-2010, 02:28 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Seriously - from a class that has multiple snares including fettering poison which by far is stupidly OP against tank classes your complaining that BH is broken?  Your parse does not indicate the targets mitigation.  It does not indicate your lvl of gear relative to your target.  Your procs alone mixed with fettering poison are enough to kill most non crusader tanks.  A warrior is never going to get near you because you can stack snares faster than a warrior can cure them. </p></blockquote><p>This is nothing to do with rangers. Absolutely nothing. </p><p>This is to do with an AA several classes have access to, and how borked it is in PvP. It does need fixing.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">The parse is from a ranger who claims battle hardening is OP becuase 2 hits were either mitigated or s/he did low end damage and therefore the tank took less auto attk damage from the ranger than the ranger expected</span>.  Since the parse provided was provided by a ranger it has everything to do with a ranger.</p><p>Guardians share battle hardening with the other plate tanks and the on going campaign to find some method to nerf crusaders and zerkers by taking away battle hardening will have much more profound implications on the guardian community than any reduction to battle hardening will have to the other plate tanks.  Again - at t9 it reads UP TO 288 less physical damage will be taken.  Battle hardening is not borked and it does not need to be "fixed."  As a guardian it seem to be working as intended by shaving a small amount of physical damage off the top of the attack.</p><p>The Op states his bow hits from 678-2259. If he hits at the low end of the range after toughness and mitigation is factored in he is hitting below the battle hardening threshold and therefore will be doing little auto attk to no auto attk damage.  The problem is not battlehardening in the example provided the problem is the op is hitting "soft" and probabally needs to gear up better to hit harder.</p></blockquote><p>I did a crit for 135. Try again. I'll post a few from my dirge when I get home. I just need to find a t9 tank who can help me test it. I'll get to it with a melee auto attack or two later.</p>

Vlahkmaak
05-19-2010, 02:42 PM
<p>I have done stupdly low auto attack crits like that against scouts and sorcerers - does that mean scout mitigation lines need to be nerfed? </p>

Thinwizzy
05-19-2010, 03:37 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have done stupdly low auto attack crits like that against scouts and sorcerers - does that mean scout mitigation lines need to be nerfed? </p></blockquote><p>Like I said, I do not think the problem lies in any one specific area.  As it is right now, if you simply 'nerf' one class/archetypes' 'survivability' line or ability without touching anyone else's you run the risk of crippling that class in pvp due to the low damage output.</p><p>While everyone's damage is low, all classes need to have 'overpowered' survivability in order to have a fighting chance in pvp.  If damage where to be brought back up, it would be acceptable for some classes (ie:fighters, plate wearers, etc) to have the ability to mitigate more than other more offensive classes (ie:predators, cloth wearers, etc)</p><p>I think a look needs to be taken into the system as a whole and how all the different pieces are working together and making each other stronger; rather than focusing on one specific area or 'nerfing' one specific class.</p>

Sydares
05-19-2010, 04:53 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Like I said, I do not think the problem lies in any one specific area.  As it is right now, if you simply 'nerf' one class/archetypes' 'survivability' line or ability without touching anyone else's you run the risk of crippling that class in pvp due to the low damage output.</p><p>While everyone's damage is low, all classes need to have 'overpowered' survivability in order to have a fighting chance in pvp.  If damage where to be brought back up, it would be acceptable for some classes (ie:fighters, plate wearers, etc) to have the ability to mitigate more than other more offensive classes (ie:predators, cloth wearers, etc)</p><p>I think a look needs to be taken into the system as a whole and how all the different pieces are working together and making each other stronger; rather than focusing on one specific area or 'nerfing' one specific class.</p></blockquote><p>Great post - I'm glad someone's bringing logic into the equation. PvP is a long way from balanced.</p>

Killque
05-19-2010, 05:16 PM
<p>I think this is what the OP is talking about, and I couldn't agree more.</p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=476710">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=476710</a></p><p>Mitigation + Damage Reduction AA = Broken</p>

Brynhild
05-19-2010, 06:39 PM
<p>Well I don't know if this helps any, but before expansion my paladin's auto-attacks were hitting other fighter classes harder than they do now.  And in TSO they didn't crit at all.    So my non-crit auto attack hit fighters and sorc harder than my now crit auto attacks are doing.   Just an observation, not sure why it's happening.  I actually believe they hit everyone harder non-crit but it's extremely apparent against other fighters.  I noticed it immediately when xpac came out with no gear changes.</p><p>I've also noticed brawler dps has gone up in pvp considerably since xpac, and so has scouts (notably rogues and predators).   I can see why scout dps has gone up but why brawlers dps, i can't figure that one out..  The new 2 handers must really affect them more than the other tank classes.</p><p>Mages seem to be more in line now with how they should be, although coercers are still doing insane amounts of dps in pvp, the resist change didn't seem to affect them at all.. Don't get this one either.  I'd rather fight a wizard any day than a coercer hehe..</p>

Portbott
05-19-2010, 07:59 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have done stupdly low auto attack crits like that against scouts and sorcerers - does that mean scout mitigation lines need to be nerfed? </p></blockquote><p>Funny story there. Sorcs have the Battle Hardening AA ability as well. As for scouts, that would have to be wards, unless there's damage reduction AA for scouts. Can't say I've played one end tier so couldn't tell you.</p>

Portbott
05-19-2010, 08:02 PM
<p><cite>Killque wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think this is what the OP is talking about, and I couldn't agree more.</p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=476710">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=476710</a></p><p>Mitigation + Damage Reduction AA = Broken</p></blockquote><p>Winner? This is exactly what I'm talking about. Only reason I didn't post my issue there is because yours seems to be more T9 oriented where the "TOUGHNESS AND DAMAGE REDUCTIONZ OMG" can be used. I made my own thread since it has to do with a different area of the game, more so than not. One moment and I'll post my entire logs versus that tank. Got to pull them up.</p>

Portbott
05-19-2010, 08:16 PM
<p>(127414683<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" />[Mon May 17 21:40:38 2010] You start fighting.(1274146839)[Mon May 17 21:40:39 2010] YOU try to pierce Rriot, but Rriot blocks.(1274146843)[Mon May 17 21:40:43 2010] YOU try to pierce Rriot with Quick Shot, but Rriot blocks.(1274146843)[Mon May 17 21:40:43 2010] YOUR Tenderwood Sliver hits Rriot but fails to inflict any damage.(1274146845)[Mon May 17 21:40:45 2010] YOUR Triple Shot hits Rriot but fails to inflict any damage.(1274146845)[Mon May 17 21:40:45 2010] YOUR Tenderwood Sliver hits Rriot but fails to inflict any damage.(1274146845)[Mon May 17 21:40:45 2010] YOUR Triple Shot hits Rriot but fails to inflict any damage.(1274146845)[Mon May 17 21:40:45 2010] Rriot's Sanguine Feedback hits YOU for 69 heat damage.(1274146845)[Mon May 17 21:40:45 2010] YOUR Triple Shot hits Rriot for 45 piercing damage.(1274146845)[Mon May 17 21:40:45 2010] YOUR Firesong hits Rriot for 23 heat damage.(1274146846)[Mon May 17 21:40:46 2010] YOUR Snaring Shot hits Rriot but fails to inflict any damage.(1274146846)[Mon May 17 21:40:46 2010] YOUR Tenderwood Sliver hits Rriot but fails to inflict any damage.(1274146846)[Mon May 17 21:40:46 2010] YOUR Firesong hits Rriot for 23 heat damage.(1274146847)[Mon May 17 21:40:47 2010] YOUR Searing Shot hits Rriot for 96 heat damage.(1274146847)[Mon May 17 21:40:47 2010] YOUR Scale Slice hits Rriot but fails to inflict any damage.(1274146847)[Mon May 17 21:40:47 2010] YOU try to pierce Rriot with Quick Shot, but Rriot blocks.(1274146847)[Mon May 17 21:40:47 2010] YOUR Tenderwood Sliver hits Rriot but fails to inflict any damage.(1274146847)[Mon May 17 21:40:47 2010] YOU try to burn Rriot with Searing Shot, but Rriot blocks.(1274146847)[Mon May 17 21:40:47 2010] YOUR Quick Shot hits Rriot but fails to inflict any damage.(1274146847)[Mon May 17 21:40:47 2010] YOUR Tenderwood Sliver hits Rriot but fails to inflict any damage.(127414684<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" />[Mon May 17 21:40:48 2010] YOUR Trick Shot hits Rriot for 104 piercing damage.(127414684<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" />[Mon May 17 21:40:48 2010] YOUR Tenderwood Sliver hits Rriot but fails to inflict any damage.(127414684<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" />[Mon May 17 21:40:48 2010] YOUR Firesong hits Rriot for 23 heat damage.(1274146851)[Mon May 17 21:40:51 2010] YOU try to pierce Rriot with Crippling Arrow, but Rriot blocks.(1274146851)[Mon May 17 21:40:51 2010] YOUR Quick Shot hits Rriot but fails to inflict any damage.(1274146851)[Mon May 17 21:40:51 2010] YOUR Tenderwood Sliver hits Rriot but fails to inflict any damage.  (1274146853)[Mon May 17 21:40:53 2010] YOUR Miracle Shot critically hits Rriot for 303 piercing damage.(1274146853)[Mon May 17 21:40:53 2010] YOUR vitality breach hits Rriot for 121 poison damage.(1274146853)[Mon May 17 21:40:53 2010] YOUR Tenderwood Sliver hits Rriot but fails to inflict any damage.(1274146853)[Mon May 17 21:40:53 2010] YOUR Firesong hits Rriot for 23 heat damage.(1274146855)[Mon May 17 21:40:55 2010] YOUR Storm of Arrows hits Rriot for 484 piercing damage..(1274146855)[Mon May 17 21:40:55 2010] YOU try to pierce Rriot with Quick Shot, but Rriot blocks.(1274146855)[Mon May 17 21:40:55 2010] YOUR Tenderwood Sliver hits Rriot but fails to inflict any damage.(1274146855)[Mon May 17 21:40:55 2010] YOU try to burn Rriot with Firesong, but Rriot resists.(1274146855)[Mon May 17 21:40:55 2010] YOU try to pierce Rriot with Quick Shot, but Rriot blocks.(1274146855)[Mon May 17 21:40:55 2010] YOUR Tenderwood Sliver hits Rriot but fails to inflict any damage.</p><p>Me dumping all my CA's into my Battle Hardening specced friend <3</p>

Beagest
05-19-2010, 09:57 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have done stupdly low auto attack crits like that against scouts and sorcerers - does that mean scout mitigation lines need to be nerfed? </p></blockquote><p>How can you argue that this isn't broken? You're trolling right now right?</p>

Vlahkmaak
05-19-2010, 11:06 PM
<p>Here is a 4 sec parse at t9</p><p>(1274319367)[Wed May 19 18:36:07 2010] <strong>Achilles' Shadow Step critically hits YOU for 4047 poison damage.</strong>(1274319367)[Wed May 19 18:36:07 2010] Achilles tries to confound YOU with Combat Expertise, but YOU resist.(1274319367)[Wed May 19 18:36:07 2010] <strong>Achilles' Noxious Venom critically hits YOU for 439 poison damage.</strong>(1274319367)[Wed May 19 18:36:07 2010] Achilles tries to poison YOU with Fatal Lifetap, but YOU resist.(1274319367)[Wed May 19 18:36:07 2010] Achilles tries to pierce YOU, but<strong> YOU block.</strong>(1274319367)[Wed May 19 18:36:07 2010] Achilles tries to pierce YOU, but<strong> their double attack misses.</strong>(1274319367)[Wed May 19 18:36:07 2010] Achilles tries to pierce YOU, but<strong> misses.</strong>(1274319367)[Wed May 19 18:36:07 2010] Achilles tries to pierce YOU, but<strong> their double attack misses.</strong>(1274319369)[Wed May 19 18:36:09 2010] <strong>Achilles' Jugular Slice critically hits YOU for 1614 slashing damage.</strong>(1274319369)[Wed May 19 18:36:09 2010] Flood prays for divine curative guidance.(1274319370)[Wed May 19 18:36:10 2010] <strong>Maxmoi's Sniper Shot critically hits YOU for 3735 crushing damage.</strong>(1274319370)[Wed May 19 18:36:10 2010] Maxmoi tries to smite YOU with Vampiric Blows,<strong> but YOU resist.</strong>(1274319370)[Wed May 19 18:36:10 2010] <span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong>You are immune to Stun effects.</strong></span>(1274319370)[Wed May 19 18:36:10 2010]<strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;"> You are stunned!</span></strong>(1274319370)[Wed May 19 18:36:10 2010] <strong>Achilles' Mortal Blade critically hits YOU for 3137 piercing damage.</strong>(1274319371)[Wed May 19 18:36:11 2010] <strong>Maxmoi critically hits YOU for 660 crushing damage.</strong>(1274319371)[Wed May 19 18:36:11 2010] <strong>Maxmoi's caustic poison hits YOU for 184 poison damage.</strong>(1274319371)[Wed May 19 18:36:11 2010] Maxmoi tries to confound YOU with Combat Expertise, but<strong> YOU resist</strong>.(1274319371)[Wed May 19 18:36:11 2010] <strong>Maxmoi's Quick Shot critically hits YOU for 91 crushing damage.</strong>(1274319371)[Wed May 19 18:36:11 2010] <strong>Maxmoi critically double attacks YOU for 179 crushing damage.</strong>(1274319371)[Wed May 19 18:36:11 2010]<strong> Achilles' Assassinate critically hits YOU for 5934 piercing damage.</strong>(1274319371)[Wed May 19 18:36:11 2010] <strong>Achilles' Noxious Venom critically hits YOU for 428 poison damage.</strong>(1274319371)[Wed May 19 18:36:11 2010] <strong>Achilles critically hits YOU for 303 piercing damage.</strong>(1274319371)[Wed May 19 18:36:11 2010] Achilles' vitality breach hits YOU for 95 poison damage.(1274319371)[Wed May 19 18:36:11 2010] Achilles' vitality breach hits YOU for 76 poison damage.(1274319371)[Wed May 19 18:36:11 2010] <strong>Achilles' Followthrough hits YOU for 502 piercing damage.</strong>(1274319371)[Wed May 19 18:36:11 2010] <strong>You are no longer stunned.</strong>(1274319371)[Wed May 19 18:36:11 2010] <strong>Achilles has killed you.</strong></p><p><strong>Battle Hardening</strong> had no impact upon this fight nor did 70% mit and 437 toughness - had some older pvp ward jewelry on instead of the newer stuff.  Still the added -10% damage reduction from 30-40% would have been negligible difference at best on the larger attacks.  Battle Hardening has no impact at t9 vs scouts which can pump out ~20% damage per CA + CC.  At lower tiers their may be an issue as Demon seems ok geared vs Rriots legendary geared zerker but at t9 this ability is not OP.  I'd like to see parses with focus aim and DPS buff (first hit will get focus aim bonus) vs Rriot if you will - rear shot, hidden shot, and auto attks if you will.</p><p>Would be interested in t9 Q scouts running additional tests - contact me in game if you ahve a freep.</p>

Vlahkmaak
05-19-2010, 11:07 PM
<p>dbl</p>

Beagest
05-19-2010, 11:18 PM
<p>You may have a point if T9 was the only tier in game....</p>

Vlahkmaak
05-20-2010, 02:54 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You may have a point if T9 was the only tier in game....</p></blockquote><p>Lets use your fail logic then Twelve: Since the 63 zerk/70 ranger were in a different tier then their data does not matter either because it was a different tier and there are more tiers than just t6/t7.  We'd have to run tests across every tier across every gear combination vs every CA combination of master, non master, treasured, MC, fabled toon vs similiar geared toon of every class.  So either put up some data or shut up because your thought process seems limited to one liners. </p>

Killque
05-20-2010, 10:54 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You may have a point if T9 was the only tier in game....</p></blockquote><p>Lets use your fail logic then Twelve: Since the 63 zerk/70 ranger were in a different tier then their data does not matter either because it was a different tier and there are more tiers than just t6/t7.  We'd have to run tests across every tier across every gear combination vs every CA combination of master, non master, treasured, MC, fabled toon vs similiar geared toon of every class.  So either put up some data or shut up because <span style="font-size: medium;"><strong>your thought process seems limited to one liners.</strong> </span></p></blockquote><p>You're an idiot.</p></blockquote><p>QFE</p>

Portbott
05-20-2010, 02:30 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Here is a 4 sec parse at t9</p><p>(1274319367)[Wed May 19 18:36:07 2010] <strong>Achilles' Shadow Step critically hits YOU for 4047 poison damage.</strong>(1274319367)[Wed May 19 18:36:07 2010] Achilles tries to confound YOU with Combat Expertise, but YOU resist.(1274319367)[Wed May 19 18:36:07 2010] <strong>Achilles' Noxious Venom critically hits YOU for 439 poison damage.</strong>(1274319367)[Wed May 19 18:36:07 2010] Achilles tries to poison YOU with Fatal Lifetap, but YOU resist.(1274319367)[Wed May 19 18:36:07 2010] Achilles tries to pierce YOU, but<strong> YOU block.</strong>(1274319367)[Wed May 19 18:36:07 2010] Achilles tries to pierce YOU, but<strong> their double attack misses.</strong>(1274319367)[Wed May 19 18:36:07 2010] Achilles tries to pierce YOU, but<strong> misses.</strong>(1274319367)[Wed May 19 18:36:07 2010] Achilles tries to pierce YOU, but<strong> their double attack misses.</strong>(1274319369)[Wed May 19 18:36:09 2010] <strong>Achilles' Jugular Slice critically hits YOU for 1614 slashing damage.</strong>(1274319369)[Wed May 19 18:36:09 2010] Flood prays for divine curative guidance.(1274319370)[Wed May 19 18:36:10 2010] <strong>Maxmoi's Sniper Shot critically hits YOU for 3735 crushing damage.</strong>(1274319370)[Wed May 19 18:36:10 2010] Maxmoi tries to smite YOU with Vampiric Blows,<strong> but YOU resist.</strong>(1274319370)[Wed May 19 18:36:10 2010] <span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong>You are immune to Stun effects.</strong></span>(1274319370)[Wed May 19 18:36:10 2010]<strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;"> You are stunned!</span></strong>(1274319370)[Wed May 19 18:36:10 2010] <strong>Achilles' Mortal Blade critically hits YOU for 3137 piercing damage.</strong>(1274319371)[Wed May 19 18:36:11 2010] <strong>Maxmoi critically hits YOU for 660 crushing damage.</strong>(1274319371)[Wed May 19 18:36:11 2010] <strong>Maxmoi's caustic poison hits YOU for 184 poison damage.</strong>(1274319371)[Wed May 19 18:36:11 2010] Maxmoi tries to confound YOU with Combat Expertise, but<strong> YOU resist</strong>.(1274319371)[Wed May 19 18:36:11 2010] <strong>Maxmoi's Quick Shot critically hits YOU for 91 crushing damage.</strong>(1274319371)[Wed May 19 18:36:11 2010] <strong>Maxmoi critically double attacks YOU for 179 crushing damage.</strong>(1274319371)[Wed May 19 18:36:11 2010]<strong> Achilles' Assassinate critically hits YOU for 5934 piercing damage.</strong>(1274319371)[Wed May 19 18:36:11 2010] <strong>Achilles' Noxious Venom critically hits YOU for 428 poison damage.</strong>(1274319371)[Wed May 19 18:36:11 2010] <strong>Achilles critically hits YOU for 303 piercing damage.</strong>(1274319371)[Wed May 19 18:36:11 2010] Achilles' vitality breach hits YOU for 95 poison damage.(1274319371)[Wed May 19 18:36:11 2010] Achilles' vitality breach hits YOU for 76 poison damage.(1274319371)[Wed May 19 18:36:11 2010] <strong>Achilles' Followthrough hits YOU for 502 piercing damage.</strong>(1274319371)[Wed May 19 18:36:11 2010] <strong>You are no longer stunned.</strong>(1274319371)[Wed May 19 18:36:11 2010] <strong>Achilles has killed you.</strong></p><p><strong>Battle Hardening</strong> had no impact upon this fight nor did 70% mit and 437 toughness - had some older pvp ward jewelry on instead of the newer stuff.  Still the added -10% damage reduction from 30-40% would have been negligible difference at best on the larger attacks.  Battle Hardening has no impact at t9 vs scouts which can pump out ~20% damage per CA + CC.  At lower tiers their may be an issue as Demon seems ok geared vs Rriots legendary geared zerker but at t9 this ability is not OP.  I'd like to see parses with focus aim and DPS buff (first hit will get focus aim bonus) vs Rriot if you will - rear shot, hidden shot, and auto attks if you will.</p><p>Would be interested in t9 Q scouts running additional tests - contact me in game if you ahve a freep.</p></blockquote><p>I'll test it out and post later. And yes, I'd imagine at T9, this ability would be a lot less severe. The issue is rarely as severe when I play my dirge who is level 90 (though he gear is lulz). Also, I wouldn't say it had no impact. You'd have to take that exact same scout to do the exact same CA's without Battle Hardening to see the difference.</p><p>But T9, most people aren't rocking 100% crit. I still crit auto attack Rriot for about 400 damage. But anything non crit it completely negated. Even lower tiers is worse. A few T5 tanks are using this AA and to even fathom killing them without a few people or high mage dps is just beyond imaginable. Gotta run. Will post more tests tonight.</p>

Beagest
05-20-2010, 05:34 PM
<p>My 44 zerk has this, and no melee class will ever come close to killing him so long as this is broken.</p>

Olihin
05-20-2010, 06:00 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>My 44 zerk has this, and no melee class will ever come close to killing him so long as this is broken.</p></blockquote><p>Can you go and try vs. a similar ranked player on TEST copy? </p><p>All the numbers shown here are not the same as those the testers and I are seeing with the changes we made that have yet to go live. </p><p><span style="font-size: large; color: #3366ff;">Olihin</span></p>

Beagest
05-20-2010, 07:52 PM
<p><cite>Olihin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>My 44 zerk has this, and no melee class will ever come close to killing him so long as this is broken.</p></blockquote><p>Can you go and try vs. a similar ranked player on TEST copy? </p><p>All the numbers shown here are not the same as those the testers and I are seeing with the changes we made that have yet to go live. </p><p><span style="font-size: large; color: #3366ff;">Olihin</span></p></blockquote><p>I would but I don't know how to do any of that stuff   :/  I'm useless with any technology lol</p>

Vlahkmaak
05-20-2010, 10:40 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>I'll test it out and post later. And yes, I'd imagine at T9, this ability would be a lot less severe. The issue is rarely as severe when I play my dirge who is level 90 (though he gear is lulz). Also, I wouldn't say it had no impact. You'd have to take that exact same scout to do the exact same CA's without Battle Hardening to see the difference.<p>But T9, most people aren't rocking 100% crit. I still crit auto attack Rriot for about 400 damage. But anything non crit it completely negated. Even lower tiers is worse. A few T5 tanks are using this AA and to even fathom killing them without a few people or high mage dps is just beyond imaginable. Gotta run. Will post more tests tonight.</p></blockquote><p>I have a baby SK somewhere in the lower tiers I use for puttering around - I will see if I can find any scouts around his same level and/or+7-10 like you were to Riot's zerker to get some idea with and without the battle hardening and share those parses as well.  At t9 most people are sporting 100% crit very easy - not sure if you meant NOT sporting 100% crit.  Also i will look at spec'ing out of batttle hardening but I need a cooperative Q scout to run the tests not just someone looking for a free update. </p><p>Best way to kill any warrior is kite them with fettering poison - they stand absolutely no chance vs you.  It cannot be cured fast enough becuase it re-procs fast: thats what I do vs warriors and poorly geared crusaders (mana tapping crusaders also helps with mental breach) but warriors you should be finding an easy 1:1 kill vs a ranger - that has always been my experience when on my ranger.  Stacking your snares intermittently completely screws up their ability to cure the fettering and they just die.</p>

Portbott
05-21-2010, 01:59 PM
<p><cite>Olihin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>My 44 zerk has this, and no melee class will ever come close to killing him so long as this is broken.</p></blockquote><p>Can you go and try vs. a similar ranked player on TEST copy? </p><p>All the numbers shown here are not the same as those the testers and I are seeing with the changes we made that have yet to go live. </p><p><span style="color: #3366ff; font-size: large;">Olihin</span></p></blockquote><p>I'd imagine it wouldn't completely be negating it on test. I want to say I remember reading that there was some sort of cap on damage reduction or whatever, so I'd imagine if the numbers are still wrong then it would simply cut all of my damage in half as opposed to completely negating it. This thread is meant more to inquire whether or not it is reducing more than it says it does. In either case, a fix is coming. One just might not be the fix it needs.</p>