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View Full Version : Enough is enough, suck it up already.


03-07-2010, 10:13 PM
<p>I realize some of you people from the blue servers are getting horribly owned.  It sucks,  I know,  Ive been there.  The difference is instead of comming to the forums and trying to get a select group of people REMOVED from the equation I went out and grinded my tail off to get the gear the people owning me had.</p><p>The most common issue I see is about procs,  2 in particular.  The fear from the banshee hoop and averted eyes from the shifting band. </p><p>Let me start by saying this,  you could also have those peices relatively easy.  Start a character on nagafen,  grind to 70 (which should take you all of a week) then level lock and grind the tokens out in open pvp.  Its not hard to do and everyone here on nagafen had to do the same to get them.  Within 3 weeks you could have a fully pvp geared t8 toon. Just a heads up here, I play a character that has none of the aforementioned procs.  Another side note,  do you really think that everyone on nagafen has those items? Fact is most of us are sick to death of being feared every two seconds by a healer and being taunt locked to nothing because the brawler taunted everyone then feigned death and shifting band proc'd on us.  We overcome.  We adapt. </p><p>Whats that you say? You shouldnt have to roll a character on a pvp server to compete with pvp players? Explain to me why not?  We had to slug it out amongst ourselves (in a much less controlled environment than the bgs btw) to get all that gear,  why should you not have to do the same?</p><p>Now let me continue with this,  do you see a nagafen player come to this forum everytime he or she is owned by t9 raid gear or t8 avatar gear procs? Do you see us demanding they level the playing field by giving us easy access to this gear as well? No.</p><p>Let me finish with this,  there are some amazing pve players rolling around in those bg's.  It definately is not as much of a gear issue as a lot of people are trying to make it out to be.  Ive inspected these people that are doing well in the bg's.  They are in PVE gear for the most part with a handfull of BG gear peices on. </p><p>This is why you people get owned,  so Im on my chanter right.  I mezz the BRUISER in front of me.  Instead of popping closed mind on me he lets me stack him up and proceed to blow him up.</p><p>Same scenario on my chanter,  though against a brigand this time.  I dont even bother to mezz I start with a stun.  I throw a quick debuff then land a root. The brigand uses double throw on me.  After the knockback I get up and proceed to stack him up and burn him down,  the whole while he just has his ranged auto attack on.  Is there a cure arcane pot in his bags? If so why is he not using them?</p><p>Reasons like this are why you are getting owned,  its not as much gear as you think.</p><p>Take a month and instead of complaining about procs,  learn the rules of pvp.  Its not a duel like on the blue servers.  Its not an arena match.  This is pvp ladies and gentlemen.  Its dirty,  rough and unforgiving on the inexperienced.  The positive thing you can take away from this is that we have ALL been the guy getting squashed at one point or another.  It happens.  The trick is learning how to make that happen to you as little as possible.</p><p>Ofnewbie~</p><p>P.S. I am in the Qeynos faction on the nagafen server.  If any of you care to bend my ear with questions regarding pvp tactics or strategies on how to kill other classes feel free to roll a lvl 1 toon over there and hit me up.  Ive played almost every class at one point or another and Im not trying to even say Im the best but I have a good grasp on the flow of gameplay,  been on red servers since they went live. </p>

KatrinaDeath
03-07-2010, 10:49 PM
<p>Well said.</p><p>+1</p>

Avirodar
03-07-2010, 11:16 PM
<p>There was avatar killing guilds on PVP servers, before Avatars were removed in EQ2:SF. Thus, Avatar gear was available to PVP players. Here is a clue-in for you, the large majority of PVE sever players have never killed an Avatar, rarely more than one guild per server. This means a minority of people had access to Avatar gear on PVE and PVP servers alike.I can only hope that no one from a PVP server will even attempt claiming T9 raid gear is not available to them.Now unless you're one of those players who thinks that PVP players need to be spoon fed advantages, and fail to grasp that Battlegrounds was added for everyone, not just the benefit of PVP servers, you would have no issue with items such as those you mentioned being made available to PVE servers.And if all these "badass" PVP players have no concerns with PVP healers wearing said items, they should have no issue with PVE healers wearing the same item in Battlegrounds. I am a healer. Will having the heal proc earring make or break a contest? No. But will it make a notable boost to my survivability and functionality? Yes.  When PVP is about using everything you can get, not having any access to powerful items (rolling a char on a pvp server is not an acceptable response) creates unfair advantages.  BG should always come down to skill, today, in a week, in a month, in a year. It should never come down to who comes from what server that is spoon fed the most advantages. So unless you want to say that players from PVP servers completely lack skill and ability, and require powerful proc items to be able to beat players from non-PVP servers, you will have no issue with the banshee hoop being made available to priests from PVE servers.I personally think you need to stop QQing like a little girl, support the same powerful items being made available to all priests regardless of server, and let skill determine the victory in combat.</p>

03-07-2010, 11:29 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>There was avatar killing guilds on PVP servers, before Avatars were removed in EQ2:SF. Thus, Avatar gear was available to PVP players. Here is a clue-in for you, the large majority of PVE sever players have never killed an Avatar, rarely more than one guild per server. This means a minority of people had access to Avatar gear on PVE and PVP servers alike.I can only hope that no one from a PVP server will even attempt claiming T9 raid gear is not available to them.Now unless you're one of those players who thinks that PVP players need to be spoon fed advantages, and fail to grasp that Battlegrounds was added for everyone, not just the benefit of PVP servers, you would have no issue with items such as those you mentioned being made available to PVE servers.And if all these "badass" PVP players have no concerns with PVP healers wearing said items, they should have no issue with PVE healers wearing the same item in Battlegrounds. I am a healer. Will having the heal proc earring make or break a contest? No. But will it make a notable boost to my survivability and functionality? Yes.  When PVP is about using everything you can get, not having any access to powerful items (rolling a char on a pvp server is not an acceptable response) creates unfair advantages.  BG should always come down to skill, today, in a week, in a month, in a year. It should never come down to who comes from what server that is spoon fed the most advantages. So unless you want to say that players from PVP servers completely lack skill and ability, and require powerful proc items to be able to beat players from non-PVP servers, you will have no issue with the banshee hoop being made available to priests from PVE servers.I personally think you need to stop QQing like a little girl, support the same powerful items being made available to all priests regardless of server, and let skill determine the victory in combat.</p></blockquote><p>The difference is good sir,  that while you just had to pull the avatar first.. we had to fight over them.  So trying to equate pve avatar killing to pvp avatar killing, is really a moot point.</p><p>Personally I have no issue with you having a banshee hoop.  Come on over and get one.  Why is rolling on a pvp server not an acceptable response? We had to have our toons here to get said items,  why should you not have to? Because you dont feel like it? That right there is an unnaceptable response.</p><p>If you think that bg's (which are just a controlled pvp environment) come down to skill,  you are sorely mistaken.  It has more to do with class, gear and group makeup than skill unfortunately.  You want a skill based game? Go play a first person shooter.  Its just how the cookie crumbles.  Yes I said gear,  yes I know you want the banshee hoop.. again I have no problem with you having one.  Come on over to naggy and get it.</p><p>Im not the one qq'ing here.  See what you did there? Thats called projecting.  Now lets not turn this into a flame fest,  this was actually meant as a constructive criticism thread.  You yourself said that having the banshee hoop is not going to break the contest.  Im well aware of this fact too,  if you look as a p.s. I even offered help to anyone willing to take it.  All they have to do is log onto naggy and hollar at me.  Pvp is an intricate dance,  most people dont know the steps,  Ive offered to hold youre hand.  Dont spit in my face because of it <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p><p>P.S. PvP is our lifestyle here on nagafen,  if its a casual endeavour to you,  why should it be an issue for us to have access to things you dont?  You raid,  so go get youre raid gear.  We pvp.. so we are gonna go get our pvp gear... kk?</p>

Notsovilepriest
03-07-2010, 11:31 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>There was avatar killing guilds on PVP servers, before Avatars were removed in EQ2:SF. Thus, Avatar gear was available to PVP players. Here is a clue-in for you, the large majority of PVE sever players have never killed an Avatar, rarely more than one guild per server. This means a minority of people had access to Avatar gear on PVE and PVP servers alike.</p></blockquote><p>Unlike you bluebies who don't have to worry about being stopped. There were many many depops because of the inability to get pulls for killing due to the ease of stopping someone from killing it. Takes 1 grey troub or anyone with a god charm or on some avatars 1 boomerang+Drag to stop. So to say we had avatar gear to the extent you guys did  is assinine. You guys get PvP gear too, From this tier. So QQ.</p>

Serpicos
03-08-2010, 12:37 AM
<p>Just make those items avail for tokens problem solved.  Oh wait you don't want us to have access to them?  Ya thats because they are stupid OP in BG</p>

Notsovilepriest
03-08-2010, 12:44 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just make those items avail for tokens problem solved.  Oh wait you don't want us to have access to them?  Ya thats because they are stupid OP in BG</p></blockquote><p>Take them, If you unlock previous avatar pieces for the PvP servers only.</p>

Serpicos
03-08-2010, 12:58 AM
<p>PvP servers always had access to avatar pieces.  We never had access to those items.  Apples please note the large difference in these oranges.</p>

Notsovilepriest
03-08-2010, 01:06 AM
<p>If you haven't played on PvP for a contested kill, Then you sir would understand how it is apples and apples.</p><p>Plus you can't take and take and not expect to give.</p>

Faerus
03-08-2010, 01:25 AM
<p>Dont know but all my toons swash,defiler,warden,templar all have avatar gear, mmb loot any piece that you can get thats best in game... and yes i worked for them just because im on a pve server doesnt mean crap.. and yea all my toons [Removed for Content] pvp toons in bg.</p>

Serpicos
03-08-2010, 01:50 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If you haven't played on PvP for a contested kill, Then you sir would understand how it is apples and apples.</p><p>Plus you can't take and take and not expect to give.</p></blockquote><p>I bet its harder to get the healer item on a PvE server than it is to get Avatar charms on a PvP server.</p>

Notsovilepriest
03-08-2010, 02:05 AM
Nope, Equally considering it's not possible for either to happen, but nice try

Avirodar
03-08-2010, 02:15 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Nope, Equally considering it's not possible for either to happen, but nice try</blockquote><p>It was possible to get charms on PVP servers.  It now is not.It was possible to get charms on PVE servers.  It now is not.It was possible to get the banshee hoop on PVP servers. It still is.It was never possible to get the banshee hoop on PVE servers. It still is impossible.Do you fail to understand it?</p>

Notsovilepriest
03-08-2010, 02:20 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Nope, Equally considering it's not possible for either to happen, but nice try</blockquote><p>It was possible to get charms on PVP servers.  It now is not.It was possible to get charms on PVE servers.  It now is not.It was possible to get the banshee hoop on PVP servers. It still is.It was never possible to get the banshee hoop on PVE servers. It still is impossible.Do you fail to understand it?</p></blockquote><p>Do you fail to understand, If you want you precious item, reroll, simple. Yes it's powerful, No it's not game breaking, it may be boarderline OP, but so are a lot of the avatar items that blue servers have. So yeah, Do you fail to understand that?</p>

Avirodar
03-08-2010, 02:37 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Nope, Equally considering it's not possible for either to happen, but nice try</blockquote><p>It was possible to get charms on PVP servers.  It now is not.It was possible to get charms on PVE servers.  It now is not.It was possible to get the banshee hoop on PVP servers. It still is.It was never possible to get the banshee hoop on PVE servers. It still is impossible.Do you fail to understand it?</p></blockquote><p>Do you fail to understand, If you want you precious item, reroll, simple. Yes it's powerful, No it's not game breaking, it may be boarderline OP, but so are a lot of the avatar items that blue servers have. So yeah, Do you fail to understand that?</p></blockquote><p>Or, SOE could put similar items that are only available for PVE servers, that PVP players can not get, no matter what guild they are in.Then several ignorant people will wake up to the reality of the situation.</p>

Notsovilepriest
03-08-2010, 02:47 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Nope, Equally considering it's not possible for either to happen, but nice try</blockquote><p>It was possible to get charms on PVP servers.  It now is not.It was possible to get charms on PVE servers.  It now is not.It was possible to get the banshee hoop on PVP servers. It still is.It was never possible to get the banshee hoop on PVE servers. It still is impossible.Do you fail to understand it?</p></blockquote><p>Do you fail to understand, If you want you precious item, reroll, simple. Yes it's powerful, No it's not game breaking, it may be boarderline OP, but so are a lot of the avatar items that blue servers have. So yeah, Do you fail to understand that?</p></blockquote><p>Or, SOE could put similar items that are only available for PVE servers, that PVP players can not get, no matter what guild they are in.Then several ignorant people will wake up to the reality of the situation.</p></blockquote><p>Oh, Like every Avatar killing guild that doesn't understand how hard it is to actually kill an avatar on PvP servers yet act as if the ability to get the items were the same? I see what you did there.  Really though, I'm not cool with letting PvE servers have all the PvP toys when they don't have to go through the crap of dying pulling contested, Dying questing, dying trying to get from point A to point B. Just be happy you got as many pieces as you guys did.</p>

Serpicos
03-08-2010, 03:12 AM
<p>Oh its hard?  Was it harder than getting the PvP charms on a PvE server?  </p>

Notsovilepriest
03-08-2010, 03:14 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Oh its hard?  Was it harder than getting the PvP charms on a PvE server?  </p></blockquote><p>Just wow, The ability of some people to grasp concepts is astounding.</p>

Avirodar
03-08-2010, 03:36 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Oh, Like every Avatar killing guild that doesn't understand how hard it is to actually kill an avatar on PvP servers yet act as if the ability to get the items were the same? I see what you did there.  Really though, I'm not cool with letting PvE servers have all the PvP toys when they don't have to go through the crap of dying pulling contested, Dying questing, dying trying to get from point A to point B. Just be happy you got as many pieces as you guys did.</p></blockquote><p>And you have any point? At all?Who cares if Avatars were harder to kill on PVP servers. They still died. You chose to play a PVP server, live with it and dont go all QQ thinking you deserve special advantages in Battlegrounds because of it.It was possible for PVP players to get Avatar loot. It is impossible for PVE players to get the borderline OP PVP faction loot.  Is it hard to understand the difference between possible and impossible?Are you just afraid of running into someone like me with a banshee loop?</p>

Notsovilepriest
03-08-2010, 03:48 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Oh, Like every Avatar killing guild that doesn't understand how hard it is to actually kill an avatar on PvP servers yet act as if the ability to get the items were the same? I see what you did there.  Really though, I'm not cool with letting PvE servers have all the PvP toys when they don't have to go through the crap of dying pulling contested, Dying questing, dying trying to get from point A to point B. Just be happy you got as many pieces as you guys did.</p></blockquote><p>And you have any point? At all?Who cares if Avatars were harder to kill on PVP servers. They still died. You chose to play a PVP server, live with it and dont go all QQ thinking you deserve special advantages in Battlegrounds because of it.It was possible for PVP players to get Avatar loot. It is impossible for PVE players to get the borderline OP PVP faction loot.  Is it hard to understand the difference between possible and impossible?Are you just afraid of running into someone like me with a banshee loop?</p></blockquote><p>Afraid of you with anything? First of all, I don't know who you are, and seem to be like most of your guild with an overinflated ego over a video game. Just because you can carebear PvP now, doesn't mean you should get all the same benifits as those of us who actually play on PvP servers, Period. If you want all those, then play on one, but if you aren't willing, then be quiet TBH</p>

Avirodar
03-08-2010, 03:57 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Afraid of you with anything? First of all, I don't know who you are, and seem to be like most of your guild with an overinflated ego over a video game. Just because you can carebear PvP now, doesn't mean you should get all the same benifits as those of us who actually play on PvP servers, Period. If you want all those, then play on one, but if you aren't willing, then be quiet TBH</p></blockquote><p>First of all, I do not know who you are, and you seem to be like most people from PVP servers, with an overinflated ego, thinking you deserve all sorts of special privilages. Just because you were able to get carebear easymode zerg loot last expansion, does not make you entitled to notable advantages in Game-wide battleground matches.</p>

Notsovilepriest
03-08-2010, 04:07 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Afraid of you with anything? First of all, I don't know who you are, and seem to be like most of your guild with an overinflated ego over a video game. Just because you can carebear PvP now, doesn't mean you should get all the same benifits as those of us who actually play on PvP servers, Period. If you want all those, then play on one, but if you aren't willing, then be quiet TBH</p></blockquote><p>First of all, I do not know who you are, and you seem to be like most people from PVP servers, with an overinflated ego, thinking you deserve all sorts of special privilages. Just because you were able to get carebear easymode zerg loot last expansion, does not make you entitled to notable advantages in Game-wide battleground matches.</p></blockquote><p>Yes,The PvP people should have 0 Advantages in PvP Battlegrounds? You realize there are other pieces with fear procs if you really want one that drop off PvE mobs.</p><p>You nailed me, To the T. I'm not making statements like you for you to need to know who I am. I don't say you're afraid of me with the item as you did. And for your information, I did not participate in the zerg that happened on naggy as a faction player. I had 1 piece of PvP armor going into this expansion/battlegrounds. This was only because a guild I was in required it for me to raid. Yes I have Banshee Hoop, but I did take it off for awhile because it is a little too powerful, but I have never denied that, but I don't think you should be able to go out and still be free, yet have all the perks of a PvP server. That wouldn't be fair to those of us on PvP, but that is what you and other PvE'ers are asking.</p><p>You can't have your cake and eat it too...Or else you will become obese</p>

Tehom
03-08-2010, 04:28 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yes,The PvP people should have 0 Advantages in PvP Battlegrounds? You realize there are other pieces with fear procs if you really want one that drop off PvE mobs.</p><p>You nailed me, To the T. I'm not making statements like you for you to need to know who I am. I don't say you're afraid of me with the item as you did. And for your information, I did not participate in the zerg that happened on naggy as a faction player. I had 1 piece of PvP armor going into this expansion/battlegrounds. This was only because a guild I was in required it for me to raid. Yes I have Banshee Hoop, but I did take it off for awhile because it is a little too powerful, but I have never denied that, but I don't think you should be able to go out and still be free, yet have all the perks of a PvP server. That wouldn't be fair to those of us on PvP, but that is what you and other PvE'ers are asking.</p><p>You can't have your cake and eat it too...Or else you will become obese</p></blockquote><p>I don't really have any sort of emotional investment in this one way or the other, but I don't really buy the argument that PvP players should have some innate advantage because of being from a PvP server. I would think that people would want to have as even a playing field as possible so that wins aren't cheapened. I don't see it as a big deal personally, but if there was some artifact that no longer dropped that let people right-click and kill everyone in a battleground, I'd probably think that'd be a bit unfair, regardless of what they did to earn it. I would think that Nagafen players already having the items while others have to first accumulate tokens to buy them would be enough of an advantage already, rather than wanting the scales permanently tilted in your favor.</p>

Notsovilepriest
03-08-2010, 04:34 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yes,The PvP people should have 0 Advantages in PvP Battlegrounds? You realize there are other pieces with fear procs if you really want one that drop off PvE mobs.</p><p>You nailed me, To the T. I'm not making statements like you for you to need to know who I am. I don't say you're afraid of me with the item as you did. And for your information, I did not participate in the zerg that happened on naggy as a faction player. I had 1 piece of PvP armor going into this expansion/battlegrounds. This was only because a guild I was in required it for me to raid. Yes I have Banshee Hoop, but I did take it off for awhile because it is a little too powerful, but I have never denied that, but I don't think you should be able to go out and still be free, yet have all the perks of a PvP server. That wouldn't be fair to those of us on PvP, but that is what you and other PvE'ers are asking.</p><p>You can't have your cake and eat it too...Or else you will become obese</p></blockquote><p>I don't really have any sort of emotional investment in this one way or the other, but I don't really buy the argument that PvP players should have some innate advantage because of being from a PvP server. I would think that people would want to have as even a playing field as possible so that wins aren't cheapened. I don't see it as a big deal personally, but if there was some artifact that no longer dropped that let people right-click and kill everyone in a battleground, I'd probably think that'd be a bit unfair, regardless of what they did to earn it. I would think that Nagafen players already having the items while others have to first accumulate tokens to buy them would be enough of an advantage already, rather than wanting the scales permanently tilted in your favor.</p></blockquote><p>The item that is being talked about isn't game breaking at all like say, T7 Avatar Boots and other such wonderful items. Even if a healer is wearing Banshee Hoop, If the other group is any good and wants to kill the healer, The healer will die. Just most haven't learned to adjust to be able to pull that off. It's just about as easy to get PvP gear in BG's as it was in the zerg depending on what scenario you're doing and if you actually go in with a guild group. So using the "Oh, Well the zerg" excuse like most people are trying to now is moot. Yes the zerg was stupid, yes I hated it too, yes lots of people got gear extremely fast, but so can people if they do BG's a lot.</p>

Naggasaki
03-08-2010, 05:17 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>There was avatar killing guilds on PVP servers, before Avatars were removed in EQ2:SF. Thus, Avatar gear was available to PVP players. Here is a clue-in for you, the large majority of PVE sever players have never killed an Avatar, rarely more than one guild per server. This means a minority of people had access to Avatar gear on PVE and PVP servers alike.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">-Actually, until just before the expansion, the only guild on Nagafen to actually be considered an avatar killing guild was Onyx. Research your information before you get made to look like an ignorant, self serving, opinionated jerk.</span></p><p>I can only hope that no one from a PVP server will even attempt claiming T9 raid gear is not available to them.Now unless you're one of those players who thinks that PVP players need to be spoon fed advantages, and fail to grasp that Battlegrounds was added for everyone, not just the benefit of PVP servers, you would have no issue with items such as those you mentioned being made available to PVE servers.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">-Again, most of us really don't have a problem with them being made available to you via Battlegrounds merchants. It's just that we don't want you to be able to aquire something that we can no longer easily aquire either. If we (the PvP players) want something from T-8 PvP merchants we must aquire T-8 PvP tokens via a T-8 toon completing T-8 PvP writs. If you want said gear on your T-9 toon, a similar requirement should be implemented for you. (read, roll a toon for T-8 BG's and get different tokens that your T-9 toon can't get and get them that way.)</span></p><p>And if all these "badass" PVP players have no concerns with PVP healers wearing said items, they should have no issue with PVE healers wearing the same item in Battlegrounds. I am a healer. Will having the heal proc earring make or break a contest? No. But will it make a notable boost to my survivability and functionality? Yes.  When PVP is about using everything you can get, not having any access to powerful items (rolling a char on a pvp server is not an acceptable response) creates unfair advantages. </p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">-You will STILL get owned you every time I encounter you, be it on my SK, Warlock, Brigand or Warden. Why? Because I carry things to counter your pathetic 'need' for gear. It's called Pots, Skill, Flexibility, imagination and above all....perseverence and determination to win.</span></p><p>BG should always come down to skill, today, in a week, in a month, in a year. It should never come down to who comes from what server that is spoon fed the most advantages. So unless you want to say that players from PVP servers completely lack skill and ability, and require powerful proc items to be able to beat players from non-PVP servers, you will have no issue with the banshee hoop being made available to priests from PVE servers.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">-Actually, I've been handed my patoot several times by coordinated pre-mades from PvE. It's not gear. I fail to see where, after all the testimonies, some people continue to think it's all about gear. Gear makes a difference, I admit that, but it doesn't make or break your ability to PvP in a team. If you cannot accept that, then neither BG's nor open world PvP is for you. Go back to the RP events and pretend that some character you pay to play actually makes a difference in someone elses real life.</span>I personally think you need to stop QQing like a little girl, support the same powerful items being made available to all priests regardless of server, and let skill determine the victory in combat.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">-Priests die just as easily as scouts if you know how to kill them. But since we're on the topic of OP gear being 'made available' to all priests, why does my level 80 warden not have this 'fabled' ring? I'll tell you why, there are two reasons.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">1.) I can't do the writs on him anymore. He's TOO HIGH LEVEL!</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">2.) I survived this long without it and he's mostly fabled out and has an amazing pvp record LONG before I got him to T-8.</span></p></blockquote><p>I'm with Ofnewbie on this one. If you actually want to learn to PvP, either suck it up and pay attention or come over to naggy on a level one toon on Q faction and ask some questions. I have a Warlock (great record pre-Tier <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />, Brigand (used to be a swash that had a good record pre-Tier <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Warden (I've already stated this monster's record) and my SK...stats below. And before you say T-8 zerg fest, let me tell you this, I 'hunt' for PvP.</p>

Avirodar
03-08-2010, 05:57 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><post above></p></blockquote><p>Why would I go to Naggy to "learn to PVP"?  Examples include 3 typical naggy noobs camping the respawn point on the 24vs24 map. I spawned there on my own, they tried to gank. It was not until almost 30s later when 2 of their team mates came to help them, that I died 5 vs 1. Is that the elite PVP Naggy skills I would learn on that server?  I have numerous similar examples where players from "PVP" servers have shown a lack of skill and co-ordination.  Yes there are some that are very well played, but the same applies to people from PVE servers.If only there was a 1 vs 1 battleground, i'd invite you to back your words and try to beat me, without a moments hesitation. Pick any toon you have, i'd take them all on, one by one.</p>

Avirodar
03-08-2010, 06:01 AM
<p>And I do not believe anyone has sincerely asked for items like the banshee hoop to be free. By games design, any way it was made available to PVE servers would also be made available to PVP servers.  This would mean the item would have the same requirements to obtain it on PVP servers as PVE servers.Based on the "concerns" expressed by PVP server players, the situation auto-alleviates itself.</p>

Naggasaki
03-08-2010, 06:24 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote></blockquote><p>Why would I go to Naggy to "learn to PVP"?  Examples include 3 typical naggy noobs camping the respawn point on the 24vs24 map. I spawned there on my own, they tried to gank. It was not until almost 30s later when 2 of their team mates came to help them, that I died 5 vs 1. Is that the elite PVP Naggy skills I would learn on that server?  I have numerous similar examples where players from "PVP" servers have shown a lack of skill and co-ordination.  Yes there are some that are very well played, but the same applies to people from PVE servers.If only there was a 1 vs 1 battleground, i'd invite you to back your words and try to beat me, without a moments hesitation. Pick any toon you have, i'd take them all on, one by one.</p></blockquote><p>First, your 'example includes' are the same people most of us 'real' PvP'rs hate. There is a thing called an 'honorable kill' that, while most abide by, it's the idiots that give everyone else a bad name. I'll point out a certain scout from our famous 'avatar killing' guild. He would own just about anyone, anywhere, any time. But he only came when you were off his recent. And I can't recall a single time watching him 'camp' a revive point. While I hated dying to him because it interrupted what I was doing, I always respected that he played by an 'honorable kill' mode. Never jumped me when swarmed with mobs either.</p><p>Secondly, you're in BG's. If you are not immune, it is not ganking. If you selected to revive at a location, far from the rest of your raid party, that is your fault. I beleive even SoE advertised BG's as 'Kill or Be Killed' did they not?</p><p>Third, I'll see you out there....bring it, and if you DO beat me, then my hats off to you sir, for playing your class better than I play mine. I would just ask that you give me the same.</p><p>*edit* I'm not looking to make this a flame war.</p>

Kyaaadaa
03-08-2010, 07:35 AM
<p>I personally agree with the idea of "You want PvP gear, come to Naggy to get it." Personally, I'm of a mind that PvP gear should not be given to PvE people at all, BG or otherwise. The life of a PvE character must be a horrid existance full of constant struggle and strife for such a rampant outcry for PvP gear since so many people get ganked on PvE servers. If you are only playing EQ2 to BG, you should probably just roll out a toon on a PvP server anyway, since thats the game mechanic that has you by the balls.</p><p>PvP players are not "special and deserve greater treatment because we PvP", PvP people are "voluntarily in hell on earth locked in war between Qeynos and Freeport and need tools to survive".</p><p>I liken BG to the Boy Scouts of America, and PvP servers to the military. Boy scouts will teach you some cool things, you get to have a nice camping trip, little action with starting a fire, cannoeing, hiking or mountain climbing, then you pack up and head home talking about it. The military, you have to do all that boy scout stuff, but evade your enemies, perform your duties, and protect each other to make it out alive.</p><p>I'll give you Boy Scouts your Swiss Army knife, and I'll take my M-16 rifle and kevlar, thank you.</p>

Cigam
03-08-2010, 08:04 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Oh, Like every Avatar killing guild that doesn't understand how hard it is to actually kill an avatar on PvP servers yet act as if the ability to get the items were the same? I see what you did there.  Really though, I'm not cool with letting PvE servers have all the PvP toys when they don't have to go through the crap of dying pulling contested, Dying questing, dying trying to get from point A to point B. Just be happy you got as many pieces as you guys did.</p></blockquote><p>And you have any point? At all?Who cares if Avatars were harder to kill on PVP servers. They still died. You chose to play a PVP server, live with it and dont go all QQ thinking you deserve special advantages in Battlegrounds because of it.It was possible for PVP players to get Avatar loot. It is impossible for PVE players to get the borderline OP PVP faction loot.  Is it hard to understand the difference between possible and impossible?Are you just afraid of running into someone like me with a banshee loop?</p></blockquote><p>Is it me or did you answer your last question in the second Paragraph?</p>

Kyaaadaa
03-08-2010, 08:09 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><his post></p></blockquote><p><the other post></p></blockquote><p>Is it me or did you answer your last question in the second Paragraph?</p></blockquote><p>I was thinking the same thing, but I didn't want to say anything crazy.</p>

Avirodar
03-08-2010, 08:34 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><p>Is it me or did you answer your last question in the second Paragraph?</p></blockquote><p>I was thinking the same thing, but I didn't want to say anything crazy.</p></blockquote><p>You both thought wrong.There is a difference between impossible and possible.   I know it is hard for some of you to understand, being a big word and all.</p>

Rairine
03-08-2010, 08:35 AM
<p>I'm awful at BGs, and Im 'lucky' enough to play on a EU server so I dont have the issues with the pvp stuff.</p><p>However the point is the BGs should be for players of the same ilk, if you play on a pvp server then you can only join a BG with players from red servers.</p><p>All players should be able to have access to the same gear, as otherwise the battlefield will never be equal.  Im happy enough for it to be made available through the BG merchants, at a cost that reflects their power, but telling someone that they must re-roll on a red server to get the gear is just plain silly, that defeats the purpose of the cross server application.</p><p>I am waiting for them to allow EU servers access to the same BG server as the rest of you so I have a whole new world of people to hand me my backside <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Kyaaadaa
03-08-2010, 09:18 AM
<p><cite>Rairine wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm awful at BGs, and Im 'lucky' enough to play on a EU server so I dont have the issues with the pvp stuff.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">So?</span></p><p>However the point is the BGs should be for players of the same ilk, if you play on a pvp server then you can only join a BG with players from red servers.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Why?</span></p><p>All players should be able to have access to the same gear, as otherwise the battlefield will never be equal.  Im happy enough for it to be made available through the BG merchants, at a cost that reflects their power, but telling someone that they must re-roll on a red server to get the gear is just plain silly, that defeats the purpose of the cross server application.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">All players are not operating in the same game enviroment outside of BG, therefore the playing field will not be equal, nor should it be.</span></p><p>I am waiting for them to allow EU servers access to the same BG server as the rest of you so I have a whole new world of people to hand me my backside <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p><p> <span style="color: #ff0000;">Yes... yes we will...</span></p></blockquote><p>I have lost count as to how many people have said this... and don't care to count how many times each person has restated it: BG has created a bridge in the rift between PvE and PvP... two months ago, you PvE people didn't give one cent about what gear PvP had... and if you did, it was only because you felt like a beaten red headed step child.</p><p>Battlegrounds' only lasting effect is that two sides of the game got mixed. The course of action now is not to Q.Q over that. Instead, do what the title of the thread says and SUCK IT UP!</p>

Crismorn
03-08-2010, 10:38 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Rairine wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm awful at BGs, and Im 'lucky' enough to play on a EU server so I dont have the issues with the pvp stuff.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">So?</span></p><p>However the point is the BGs should be for players of the same ilk, if you play on a pvp server then you can only join a BG with players from red servers.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Why?</span></p><p>All players should be able to have access to the same gear, as otherwise the battlefield will never be equal.  Im happy enough for it to be made available through the BG merchants, at a cost that reflects their power, but telling someone that they must re-roll on a red server to get the gear is just plain silly, that defeats the purpose of the cross server application.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">All players are not operating in the same game enviroment outside of BG, therefore the playing field will not be equal, nor should it be.</span></p><p>I am waiting for them to allow EU servers access to the same BG server as the rest of you so I have a whole new world of people to hand me my backside <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p><p> <span style="color: #ff0000;">Yes... yes we will...</span></p></blockquote><p>I have lost count as to how many people have said this... and don't care to count how many times each person has restated it: BG has created a bridge in the rift between PvE and PvP... two months ago, you PvE people didn't give one cent about what gear PvP had... and if you did, it was only because you felt like a beaten red headed step child.</p><p>Battlegrounds' only lasting effect is that two sides of the game got mixed. The course of action now is not to Q.Q over that. Instead, do what the title of the thread says and SUCK IT UP!</p></blockquote><p>So pvp players need a crutch for BG's?</p><p>Thats all you had to say</p>

Elepian
03-08-2010, 10:39 AM
<p>Just read these 3 pages.. and all I can say is.. Wow!  Honestly I don't take the Bluebies side, though I am one.  I have experienced PvP firsthand and know what it is like.  PvP and PvE are two different worlds.  Do I think they should be separated ( PvP-PvP ; PvE-PvE)  ? No.  Doing this would kill our challenge.  Do I think gear needs to be made available between servers? eh.. [Removed for Content]!? Why?  One thing I learned when I played pvp was that while gear "helped", It is all AA and skill playing your class.  When I played on PvP my toon made it to i believe 49 ( wizard ) and all he had was Mastercrafted Gear.  he did however have almost 100 AA at level 49,  which was a huge advantage.  </p><p>Everyone makes the BGs out to be harsh, and Unfair... [Removed for Content] do you have any idea that Both worlds can be that way at times?  Thats life! Get over it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  There have been Battlegrounds where I have seen a vox server against myself and my guildies, and we go into bgs with just 5 and pick up a 6th inside.  Wow its another Vox player.. know what he did that entire match? Match start, was a gear of klak, he walks out to the 2nd floor of map.  and just stands there while the other team kills him.. THEN when he respawns? He just sits in spawn the rest of match >( ( tried inserting cursory remark here but kept backspacing it due to the unwant of it being removed when I post this.. )  This specifically can get irritating, I also have heard some Nagafen Players, complaining about having to group with Bluebies, or PvEers and not having the attitude of you win some lose some in BGs.  Then there are others I have seen that strive to help PvEers through matches and teach them a bit about their classes advantages be it PvP or PvE.  Kudos to those of you that do this, it helps even if some of them will not admit you having done so.   </p><p>Unfortunately you have to learn to work together In BGs.. No matter what server you are from. That is the way it is.  and I sorely feel sympathy for those of you degrading your intelligence, as well as everyone elses here by acting like children and spouting ridiculous remarks such as "That isn't Fair" and "They Have PvP gear and we don't!".  I barely have much of anything good, save for my mythical.  I only have 2pc t1, 2pc T2, and 1pc T3 then some quest jewelry.  Yet I somehow manage to several times walk out of the BG match with high amount of kills/death blows and little death.  </p><p>I think the appropriate thing to be saying here, is not how something is So unfair, it should be rather that not every PuG works together in these things.  Since my guild and I have started queuing groups up, its gotten much better and everyone has fun regardless of the outcome of the battle.  It gets to instead of I want that relic and I want to win, its " I don't care about winning I just want to kill that damned bruiser!"  and it makes me laugh everytime because I know my guildies are getting competitive and enjoying themselves regardless of winning or losing.    </p><p>So Good luck to everyone out there and if you've a need to complain , send a /petition cause all I can grasp is some of you are looking for a fight from the other side and you really need to hash it out in Battlegrounds Let the thread die and move on. </p><p>See ya out there in BGs Naggy I is gonna pwn joo! <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Rairine
03-08-2010, 10:52 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Rairine wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm awful at BGs, and Im 'lucky' enough to play on a EU server so I dont have the issues with the pvp stuff.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">So?</span></p><p><span style="color: #3366ff;">It was mainly to set the playfield in that I am from outside  looking in at the problem</span></p><p>However the point is the BGs should be for players of the same ilk, if you play on a pvp server then you can only join a BG with players from red servers.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Why?</span></p><p><span style="color: #3366ff;">Because no matter what you say, its currently impossible for a blue server toon to be equipped the same as red server toon, and as such theres an imbalance.</span></p><p>All players should be able to have access to the same gear, as otherwise the battlefield will never be equal.  Im happy enough for it to be made available through the BG merchants, at a cost that reflects their power, but telling someone that they must re-roll on a red server to get the gear is just plain silly, that defeats the purpose of the cross server application.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">All players are not operating in the same game enviroment outside of BG, therefore the playing field will not be equal, nor should it be.</span></p><p><span style="color: #3366ff;">In the BGs things should be equal, maybe not at the start, but to say that because of your red server status you deserve an advantage over blue server players is wrong</span>.</p><p>I am waiting for them to allow EU servers access to the same BG server as the rest of you so I have a whole new world of people to hand me my backside <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p><p> <span style="color: #ff0000;">Yes... yes we will...</span></p></blockquote><p>I have lost count as to how many people have said this... and don't care to count how many times each person has restated it: BG has created a bridge in the rift between PvE and PvP... two months ago, you PvE people didn't give one cent about what gear PvP had... and if you did, it was only because you felt like a beaten red headed step child.</p><p><span style="color: #3366ff;">In reality I dont care, I do BGs for a change of scenery from soloing late at night, however its plain that at present there is imbalance.</span></p><p>Battlegrounds' only lasting effect is that two sides of the game got mixed. The course of action now is not to Q.Q over that. Instead, do what the title of the thread says and SUCK IT UP!</p><p><span style="color: #3366ff;">Please explain, why blue server toons should suck it up? just because SoE wont address the issue doesnt make it right.</span></p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #000000;">I agree whole heartedly that your daily game play is harder, and a more complex way of life to those on a blue server, but I fail to see why you think that entitles you to not only a head start over all blue server toons, but because this gear isnt available to anyone else to remain ahead at all times.</span></p><p>The problem I see is that if they were put onto the BG merchants then red server players could get the items easier, and as such devalue your efforts in ataining your own, now this is an argument I can go along with, and would be wrong, so I would introduce BG only jewellry / armour so that red server toons can still keep their exclusivity on their own servers, and blue server / less talented res server players can eventually compete on a fairly level playing field in the BGs</p>

Rairine
03-08-2010, 11:03 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just read these 3 pages.. and all I can say is.. Wow!  Honestly I don't take the Bluebies side, though I am one.  I have experienced PvP firsthand and know what it is like.  PvP and PvE are two different worlds.  Do I think they should be separated ( PvP-PvP ; PvE-PvE)  ? No.  Doing this would kill our challenge.  Do I think gear needs to be made available between servers? eh.. [Removed for Content]!? Why?  One thing I learned when I played pvp was that while gear "helped", It is all AA and skill playing your class.  When I played on PvP my toon made it to i believe 49 ( wizard ) and all he had was Mastercrafted Gear.  he did however have almost 100 AA at level 49,  which was a huge advantage.  </p><p>Everyone makes the BGs out to be harsh, and Unfair... [Removed for Content] do you have any idea that Both worlds can be that way at times?  Thats life! Get over it <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />  There have been Battlegrounds where I have seen a vox server against myself and my guildies, and we go into bgs with just 5 and pick up a 6th inside.  Wow its another Vox player.. know what he did that entire match? Match start, was a gear of klak, he walks out to the 2nd floor of map.  and just stands there while the other team kills him.. THEN when he respawns? He just sits in spawn the rest of match >( ( tried inserting cursory remark here but kept backspacing it due to the unwant of it being removed when I post this.. )  This specifically can get irritating, I also have heard some Nagafen Players, complaining about having to group with Bluebies, or PvEers and not having the attitude of you win some lose some in BGs.  Then there are others I have seen that strive to help PvEers through matches and teach them a bit about their classes advantages be it PvP or PvE.  Kudos to those of you that do this, it helps even if some of them will not admit you having done so.   </p><p>Unfortunately you have to learn to work together In BGs.. No matter what server you are from. That is the way it is.  and I sorely feel sympathy for those of you degrading your intelligence, as well as everyone elses here by acting like children and spouting ridiculous remarks such as "That isn't Fair" and "They Have PvP gear and we don't!".  I barely have much of anything good, save for my mythical.  I only have 2pc t1, 2pc T2, and 1pc T3 then some quest jewelry.  Yet I somehow manage to several times walk out of the BG match with high amount of kills/death blows and little death.  </p><p>I think the appropriate thing to be saying here, is not how something is So unfair, it should be rather that not every PuG works together in these things.  Since my guild and I have started queuing groups up, its gotten much better and everyone has fun regardless of the outcome of the battle.  It gets to instead of I want that relic and I want to win, its " I don't care about winning I just want to kill that damned bruiser!"  and it makes me laugh everytime because I know my guildies are getting competitive and enjoying themselves regardless of winning or losing.    </p><p>So Good luck to everyone out there and if you've a need to complain , send a /petition cause all I can grasp is some of you are looking for a fight from the other side and you really need to hash it out in Battlegrounds Let the thread die and move on. </p><p>See ya out there in BGs Naggy I is gonna pwn joo! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>I do agree with this sentiment, I have fun regardless.</p><p>However your point also states that gear helps, so two equally gifted players, but one from a red server the other from a blue, the red server player is likely to hold the advantage.</p><p>As a blue server player I dont want to be given something just because a red server has it, I want the option to be able to earn it if Im going to face someone on a BG that may have it also.</p><p>BGs are seperate to your home server, when you zone in, you are no longer a red server or a blue server toon, you are a BG toon, and as such everyone should be able to get equipped to the same level.</p>

Scatimus
03-08-2010, 11:10 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Oh, Like every Avatar killing guild that doesn't understand how hard it is to actually kill an avatar on PvP servers yet act as if the ability to get the items were the same? I see what you did there.  Really though, I'm not cool with letting PvE servers have all the PvP toys when they don't have to go through the crap of dying pulling contested, Dying questing, dying trying to get from point A to point B. Just be happy you got as many pieces as you guys did.</p></blockquote><p>And you have any point? At all?Who cares if Avatars were harder to kill on PVP servers. They still died. <span style="font-size: medium; color: #ff0000;"><strong>You chose to play a PVP server, live with it and dont go all QQ thinking you deserve special advantages in Battlegrounds because of it.</strong></span>It was possible for PVP players to get Avatar loot. It is impossible for PVE players to get the borderline OP PVP faction loot.  Is it hard to understand the difference between possible and impossible?Are you just afraid of running into someone like me with a banshee loop?</p></blockquote><p><span style="font-size: small; color: #ffffff;"><span>and</span> </span><span style="font-size: small;">did pve cho</span>ose to play on pve?  Dont go all QQ thinking you deserve special advantages in Battlegrounds because you chose to be on a pvp server.</p><p>you are right though, Avatars still did die in PVP, but much less often, because unlike a PVE server, it is much harder to kill one on a PVP server.  It only takes one outside guy to mess up a raid and wipe them.  Have you ever had to deal with someone charming your tank?  Or how about a group coming in and killing the tank or the healer?  oh...no?   huh.  I guess you wouldnt understand then.</p>

Scatimus
03-08-2010, 11:14 AM
<p><cite>Rairine wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>However the point is the BGs should be for players of the same ilk, if you play on a pvp server then you can only join a BG with players from red servers.</p></blockquote><p>we already have this on the pvp server, it is called everywhere in norrath besides the bgs.  Real world pvp is battlegrounds on a much deadlier and unbalanced scale on our server.  unbalanced because, a x4 will find you and kill you and deadlier because an x4 will find you and kil you, lol.</p>

Rairine
03-08-2010, 11:26 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Rairine wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>However the point is the BGs should be for players of the same ilk, if you play on a pvp server then you can only join a BG with players from red servers.</p></blockquote><p>we already have this on the pvp server, it is called everywhere in norrath besides the bgs.  Real world pvp is battlegrounds on a much deadlier and unbalanced scale on our server.  unbalanced because, a x4 will find you and kill you and deadlier because an x4 will find you and kil you, lol.</p></blockquote><p>I understand that, but until they balance the BGs properly, then really its never going to be 'fair' while there will always be inbalance due to differing groups, aa, relative levels, skill, etc - availability of gear should really be the same.</p>

Elepian
03-08-2010, 11:31 AM
<p><cite>Rairine wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just read these 3 pages.. and all I can say is.. Wow!  Honestly I don't take the Bluebies side, though I am one.  I have experienced PvP firsthand and know what it is like.  PvP and PvE are two different worlds.  Do I think they should be separated ( PvP-PvP ; PvE-PvE)  ? No.  Doing this would kill our challenge.  Do I think gear needs to be made available between servers? eh.. [Removed for Content]!? Why?  One thing I learned when I played pvp was that while gear "helped", It is all AA and skill playing your class.  When I played on PvP my toon made it to i believe 49 ( wizard ) and all he had was Mastercrafted Gear.  he did however have almost 100 AA at level 49,  which was a huge advantage.  </p><p>Everyone makes the BGs out to be harsh, and Unfair... [Removed for Content] do you have any idea that Both worlds can be that way at times?  Thats life! Get over it <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />  There have been Battlegrounds where I have seen a vox server against myself and my guildies, and we go into bgs with just 5 and pick up a 6th inside.  Wow its another Vox player.. know what he did that entire match? Match start, was a gear of klak, he walks out to the 2nd floor of map.  and just stands there while the other team kills him.. THEN when he respawns? He just sits in spawn the rest of match >( ( tried inserting cursory remark here but kept backspacing it due to the unwant of it being removed when I post this.. )  This specifically can get irritating, I also have heard some Nagafen Players, complaining about having to group with Bluebies, or PvEers and not having the attitude of you win some lose some in BGs.  Then there are others I have seen that strive to help PvEers through matches and teach them a bit about their classes advantages be it PvP or PvE.  Kudos to those of you that do this, it helps even if some of them will not admit you having done so.   </p><p>Unfortunately you have to learn to work together In BGs.. No matter what server you are from. That is the way it is.  and I sorely feel sympathy for those of you degrading your intelligence, as well as everyone elses here by acting like children and spouting ridiculous remarks such as "That isn't Fair" and "They Have PvP gear and we don't!".  I barely have much of anything good, save for my mythical.  I only have 2pc t1, 2pc T2, and 1pc T3 then some quest jewelry.  Yet I somehow manage to several times walk out of the BG match with high amount of kills/death blows and little death.  </p><p>I think the appropriate thing to be saying here, is not how something is So unfair, it should be rather that not every PuG works together in these things.  Since my guild and I have started queuing groups up, its gotten much better and everyone has fun regardless of the outcome of the battle.  It gets to instead of I want that relic and I want to win, its " I don't care about winning I just want to kill that damned bruiser!"  and it makes me laugh everytime because I know my guildies are getting competitive and enjoying themselves regardless of winning or losing.    </p><p>So Good luck to everyone out there and if you've a need to complain , send a /petition cause all I can grasp is some of you are looking for a fight from the other side and you really need to hash it out in Battlegrounds Let the thread die and move on. </p><p>See ya out there in BGs Naggy I is gonna pwn joo! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>I do agree with this sentiment, I have fun regardless.</p><p>However your point also states that gear helps, so two equally gifted players, but one from a red server the other from a blue, the red server player is likely to hold the advantage.</p><p>As a blue server player I dont want to be given something just because a red server has it, I want the option to be able to earn it if Im going to face someone on a BG that may have it also.</p><p>BGs are seperate to your home server, when you zone in, you are no longer a red server or a blue server toon, you are a BG toon, and as such everyone should be able to get equipped to the same level.</p></blockquote><p>Well said with my statement, and if I may, to revise what I meant about helped I quoted that to mean to a small extent.  Even though I was going up against pvp players with PVP gear on Nagafen when I and my guildies played over there, I myself as well as my guildies never really used PvP gear we just stuck to what we knew; MasterCrafted and some Heritage Quest items.  And still managed to come out on top.  </p>

03-08-2010, 02:27 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Oh, Like every Avatar killing guild that doesn't understand how hard it is to actually kill an avatar on PvP servers yet act as if the ability to get the items were the same? I see what you did there.  Really though, I'm not cool with letting PvE servers have all the PvP toys when they don't have to go through the crap of dying pulling contested, Dying questing, dying trying to get from point A to point B. Just be happy you got as many pieces as you guys did.</p></blockquote><p>And you have any point? At all?<span style="text-decoration: underline;">Who cares if Avatars were harder to kill on PVP servers. They still died. You chose to play a PVP server, live with it and dont go all QQ thinking you deserve special advantages in Battlegrounds because of it.</span></p><p><span style="color: #800000;">And you chose to roll in a pve server.  There is no real such thing as 'contested' mobs there which made you gettting youre full avatar sets MUCH easier than we have it over here.  PvE is youre focus. Go PvE and be merry tbh.  We are gonna go PvP,  all the time,  whether we like it at the time or not.  We dont deserve special advantages,  you act like the banshee hoop is going to change youre life in bg's.  It wont.  You will still get youre backside handed to you because of reasons Ive stated before</span>.</p><p>It was possible for PVP players to get Avatar loot. It is impossible for PVE players to get the borderline OP PVP faction loot.  Is it hard to understand the difference between possible and impossible?</p><p><span style="color: #800000;">You have full access to those items.  Roll a toon on naggy and lock in t8 and grind the tokens.  I dont know how many times I have to state this.</span>Are you just afraid of running into someone like me with a banshee loop?</p><p><span style="color: #800000;">Afraid of you? LoL.  Kid I'll mop the floor with youre face... twice.. for good measure.. and I dont use any of the items you claim to be so powerful.  Sure the banshee hoop is nice,  pop a freedom of action potion and push that healers poop in.</span></p><p><span style="color: #800000;"> </span></p><p><span style="color: #800000;">In closing,  banshee hoop or not you are still gonna get rick-rolled out there,  because you spend too much time focusing on what you dont have.  If you put a little more effort into thinking up ways to use what you DO have to youre advantage,  you would find yourself winning a lot more,  and whining a lot less.</span></p></blockquote>

Tehom
03-08-2010, 02:53 PM
<p>I don't think anyone on a pve server would object to pvp gear taking some comparable amount of time (or longer) to get the same procs that pvp players have, just as long as it was eventually possible. I for one don't mind at all that players on pvp servers who've earned their gear currently enjoy a large advantage, so long as the playing field can eventually level out once players on pve servers spend a comparable amount of time working on it.</p><p>If your argument is really that it's impossible to duplicate the same amount of effort earning things in battlegrounds as it is to earn them in open world pvp, I can understand that. I might not necessarily agree, but it's a valid argument. But it's hard to take seriously any argument that because you're on a pvp server you deserve some special advantages that can never be equalized.</p>

Notsovilepriest
03-08-2010, 02:56 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I don't think anyone on a pve server would object to pvp gear taking some comparable amount of time (or longer) to get the same procs that pvp players have, just as long as it was eventually possible. I for one don't mind at all that players on pvp servers <strong>who've earned their gear currently enjoy a large advantage</strong>, so long as the playing field can eventually level out once players on pve servers spend a comparable amount of time working on it.</p></blockquote><p>Bolded part makes me laugh, You have as much toughness as the wear we had to start, We have a few pieces that aren't available to you guys, but we go out to quest, we get killed and other things of that likings. So for you guys to sit in BG and get all the same gear should never happen. BG isn't true 100% PvP, yet they gave you guys our T9 PvP gear anyways.</p><p>Also, you guys are overstating the power of that item, It's good, but it's not game breakingly good</p>

PeterJohn
03-08-2010, 02:57 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite></cite></p><blockquote><p>It was possible for PVP players to get Avatar loot. It is impossible for PVE players to get the borderline OP PVP faction loot.  Is it hard to understand the difference between possible and impossible?</p><p><span style="color: #800000;">You have full access to those items.  Roll a toon on naggy and lock in t8 and grind the tokens.  I dont know how many times I have to state this.</span></p></blockquote></blockquote><p>This is a BS argument. Your "solution" is for someone to leave their level 90 toon with all of his gear and hard work, not to mention their guild and all their friends, to reroll on a PvP server? Do you know of a way to transfer this new item back to my original server, or do you want BG to be only for Nagefen players, unless we want to accept the disadvantage?</p><p>But I guess Nagefen players have always had uncontested access to Avatar gear, right? I mean, they could have just rerolled on a blue server to kill the Avatars, right?</p>

Jinoy
03-08-2010, 03:01 PM
<p><cite>PeterJohn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite></cite></p><blockquote><p>It was possible for PVP players to get Avatar loot. It is impossible for PVE players to get the borderline OP PVP faction loot.  Is it hard to understand the difference between possible and impossible?</p><p><span style="color: #800000;">You have full access to those items.  Roll a toon on naggy and lock in t8 and grind the tokens.  I dont know how many times I have to state this.</span></p></blockquote></blockquote><p>This is a BS argument. Your "solution" is for someone to leave their level 90 toon with all of his gear and hard work, not to mention their guild and all their friends, to reroll on a PvP server? Do you know of a way to transfer this new item back to my original server, or do you want BG to be only for Nagefen players, unless we want to accept the disadvantage?</p><p>But I guess Nagefen players have always had uncontested access to Avatar gear, right? I mean, they could have just rerolled on a blue server to kill the Avatars, right?</p></blockquote><p>Right.</p><p>PVE servers have their perks, PVP servers have theirs. On a PVE server you can quest unhindered and get your exp/aa faster. You have/had uncontested access to open world mobs. Players choose which benefits/hindrances/playstyle they want when they choose a server.</p>

03-08-2010, 03:06 PM
<p>Absolutely.  If I wanted raiding to be my focus,  I would definately roll on a blue server,  where shockingly enough,  raiding is the main focus. </p><p>Instead though pvp is my focus,  hence Im here on nagafen.</p><p>If pvp IS youre focus,  you need to be here too.  If it is just something you want to do in bg's to pass the time,  by all means stay wherever you are at.  But dont come to this forum whining about a couple of PVP ONLY items thinking thats going to make or break the game for you. </p><p>The bottom line is that people are getting smashed.  When you finally do get a minute to target their healers you are feared off.  Its annoying I know,  Ive been dealing with it for over 2 years now.  Honestly I think the [Removed for Content] thing should be removed period.  But it's not going anywhere.  Not leaving the game,  not comming to a server near you.  Deal with it.</p>

Siphar
03-08-2010, 03:11 PM
<p><cite>Mardya wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>PeterJohn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite></cite></p><blockquote><p>It was possible for PVP players to get Avatar loot. It is impossible for PVE players to get the borderline OP PVP faction loot.  Is it hard to understand the difference between possible and impossible?</p><p><span style="color: #800000;">You have full access to those items.  Roll a toon on naggy and lock in t8 and grind the tokens.  I dont know how many times I have to state this.</span></p></blockquote></blockquote><p>This is a BS argument. Your "solution" is for someone to leave their level 90 toon with all of his gear and hard work, not to mention their guild and all their friends, to reroll on a PvP server? Do you know of a way to transfer this new item back to my original server, or do you want BG to be only for Nagefen players, unless we want to accept the disadvantage?</p><p>But I guess Nagefen players have always had uncontested access to Avatar gear, right? I mean, they could have just rerolled on a blue server to kill the Avatars, right?</p></blockquote><p>Right.</p><p>PVE servers have their perks, PVP servers have theirs. On a PVE server you can quest unhindered and get your exp/aa faster. You have/had uncontested access to open world mobs. Players choose which benefits/hindrances/playstyle they want when they choose a server.</p></blockquote><p>+1</p><p>Getting exp and aa in the open world is much more frustrating and time consuming than compared to the Blue servers, especially for utility classes and shaman, that have few options but to solo...</p>

yellowbelly08
03-08-2010, 03:14 PM
<p>Onyx got Avatar gear on PVP server...Onyx blocked anyone else getting Avatar gear gear on PVP server (bar a few toons with a piece or two)</p><p>We have had to deal with Banshee hoop and shifting band for a year...we dealt....you can deal....</p><p>Thre items are not anywhere near as op as you suggest. For Banshee hoop pop freedom of action pot and burn them in 10 secs (with all that Avatar loot im sure you can burn a player in 10 secs yes...?)</p><p>Shifting band procs ..o no what will i do...er hit your target previous pvp button instantly eg i use middle mouse button and your INSTANTLY back in the game....er kill him...?</p><p>O and use your pots fgs there the most important thing in pvp. Cure stuff.....be immune to stuff...actually wear beneficial ez to get gear (the obvious one im not mentioning as nerf is inc due to mass pwnage in BG coz bluebies cant cure for some unfathomable reason...but then again the recast on needed pot is very long so yes needs nerf..so maybe I can finally wear 90 gear in that slot...)</p><p>Ive seen some amazing pve players...and some carnage caused by them.....I saw a troub thinking lol ez kill....but...he one shots me with an AUTO and about 15 procs.....no lie... So live and learn...most importantly..er LEARN.</p><p>Galoro Nagafen</p>

PeterJohn
03-08-2010, 04:41 PM
<p><cite>yellowbelly08 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>We have had to deal with Banshee hoop and shifting band for a year...we dealt....you can deal....</p><p>Thre items are not anywhere near as op as you suggest.</p></blockquote><p>So we should deal with you having the gear that you have access to and we don't have access to? Why is that?</p><p>If they are not anywhere near as op as we suggest, then why are you so resistant to letting us have this useless gear?</p>

Gungo
03-08-2010, 04:50 PM
<p>I could care less about banshee or shifting band but i think when they add in the level 80 battlegrounds merchant they should add in those items to make battlegrounds abit more fair.</p><p>The only item i actually think should be fixed because it is actually broken because it has an effect which behaves like no other effect in the entire game is the tribunal diety cloak with a ZONE WIDE stun. While people may have issues with its proc chance and duration. My only issue is that it is ZONE WIDE and should have an effective radius like every other spell in game.</p>

Kkolbe
03-08-2010, 05:54 PM
<p>You know, after reading qq threads for the last few weeks from pve players. How about we just separate just the dang pve and pvp servers for bg's. I used to not want to separate us from pve people, but now it seems like the best idea. I'm on Naggy and if this will shut you whiney pve players up, I am all for it. I mean honestly, who cares if we play with pve people, most of them are really just free kills anyways.</p><p>Also, if we were just bging with Naggy people, there might not be instant Queues like there are now, so people would go back to open world pvp. Is it worth playing with pve just to fight the few good people they have on their servers compared to the 100000 bad players that are n00bs and constantly whining from pve..</p>

Crismorn
03-08-2010, 06:45 PM
<p>Leave the gear as is, pvp players need their crutch and thats fine by me since people from pve servers are obviously much better at this game.</p>

FadedLB
03-08-2010, 07:19 PM
<p>Mmmkay. Antonia Bayle player here (aka "Bluebie").</p><p>I do not, nor will I EVER, play on Vox, Nagafen or whatever other PvP servers there are. I've never been in a battleground with any of my 80+ characters, nor will I ever. That said,<strong><em> yes, it does make sense for PvP servers to get PvP gear a little easier than the non-PvP servers.</em></strong></p><p>Bear with me here...</p><p>I've been on PvP servers in multiple other games to know what they are like in ANY game. They are PvP servers. And playing on PvP servers absolutely <strong>sucks</strong> beyond belief. 70-90% of those servers in ANY game are angry children looking to grief other people in any way they can find because they got grounded for not doing their homework. They do whatever they can to kill every player they see and then brag about it. They camp graveyards and spawn points. They wait until you're swamped with mobs and you're below half health. They bring potions and friends and somemes "creative third-party assistance" to make your gametime less fun, and then /spit at you, teabag your corpse and talk smack in tells.</p><p>I see much of the people here are in the 10-30% range that might not be like that, and should get a bit of grace for having to deal with 70-90% of their server, and YES, should get PvP gear a little sooner. Even if that means the angry children get that gear too, because there's no way to prevent it.</p>

Munty
03-08-2010, 07:32 PM
<p><cite>Mardya wrote<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal;">:</span></span></cite></p><blockquote><p>Right.</p><p>PVE servers have their perks, PVP servers have theirs. On a PVE server you can quest unhindered and get your exp/aa faster. You have/had uncontested access to open world mobs. Players choose which benefits/hindrances/playstyle they want when they choose a server.</p></blockquote><p>Lame argument.  You choose to roll on a PvP server because you enjoy PvP; the argument that those on PvE servers should just "suck it" because they can just reroll on a PvP server is just as easily reflected straight back at the PvPers who are claiming it is so easy to obtain decent gear on PvE servers.  The fact that it is "easier" to gain XP or AA is irrelevant, especially since a considerable proportion CHOOSE to level lock on PvP servers.  Battlegrounds were designed as a separate part of the game, of which no server should have an inherent advantage, and the only "perk" PvErs have is that it is marginally easier to level up.  But let's face it, leveling up in this game is not hard, unless you truly suck. Yeah it takes a bit longer in PvP since there's always that danger of getting ganked, but I am sure there are plenty of guilds out there that can alleviate that problem.  The fact is that PvP servers have a marked advantage over PvE servers in BGs because they have access to PvP specific gear that is unavailable to PvE servers.  If you think this is fine, then you are basically admitting that you are a) either afraid of PvErs having access to the same gear, or b) just fine with the fact that you'll be fighting with an unfair advantage; either way, you make yourself out to look a bit of an a-hole.</p><p>Battlegrounds are independent of server, that is how they were designed.  Thus, one's choice of server should be inconsequential to their experience in BGs; it should be purely based on player skill.  </p>

BMouse
03-08-2010, 08:39 PM
<p><cite>Kkolbe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You know, after reading qq threads for the last few weeks from pve players. How about we just separate just the dang pve and pvp servers for bg's. I used to not want to separate us from pve people, but now it seems like the best idea. I'm on Naggy and if this will shut you whiney pve players up, I am all for it. I mean honestly, who cares if we play with pve people, most of them are really just free kills anyways.</p><p>Also, if we were just bging with Naggy people, there might not be instant Queues like there are now, so people would go back to open world pvp. Is it worth playing with pve just to fight the few good people they have on their servers compared to the 100000 bad players that are n00bs and constantly whining from pve..</p></blockquote><p>People will always cry about being owned, Whaled upon, and rolled easily on BG's. Frankly I could'nt care less about dying a lot in BG's. I am Enjoying the BG's Immensly. I am from a PvE Server. Gawd its not like we get Debt or Busted Armour from being rolled often.</p><p> I will eventually get a Full set of BG Armour. I have no doubt about that at all. It may take me longer than a lot of people out there.... but I will get there eventially.  I like PvP being apart of my normaly game play. For me it breaks up the boredom of killing a Trillon NPC's for quests, and doing Instance after Instance.</p><p> When I do BG's against other players, I am always  learning more about how I can play my Class better. I like seeing how people play in BG's and the gear they wear etc etc.</p>

Vlahkmaak
03-08-2010, 09:03 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Oh, Like every Avatar killing guild that doesn't understand how hard it is to actually kill an avatar on PvP servers yet act as if the ability to get the items were the same? I see what you did there.  Really though, I'm not cool with letting PvE servers have all the PvP toys when they don't have to go through the crap of dying pulling contested, Dying questing, dying trying to get from point A to point B. Just be happy you got as many pieces as you guys did.</p></blockquote><p>And you have any point? At all?Who cares if Avatars were harder to kill on PVP servers. They still died. You chose to play a PVP server, live with it and dont go all QQ thinking you deserve special advantages in Battlegrounds because of it.It was possible for PVP players to get Avatar loot. It is impossible for PVE players to get the borderline OP PVP faction loot.  Is it hard to understand the difference between possible and impossible?Are you just afraid of running into someone like me with a banshee loop?</p></blockquote><p>YOU chose to play on a PVE server so stop QQing because you cannot get something from our servers.  Guess what - the banshee hoop is not that hard to over come.  There are MANY fear immunity items in the game to assist with combating it including rolling a crusader and staying in fear spec for the solo purpose of killing healers.</p><p>Furthermore we ahve always been told rolling on a pvp server is a 1 way street - you cannot go back due to cding differences.  Guess all that coding difference can be over come since the introduction of BG.  You want the Banshee Hoop - come earn it.</p><p>It was [Removed for Content] near impossible for PVP guilds to get Avatar loot becuase everytime certain guilds were seen in a zone, regardless of time of day (some faction guilds ran 24 hour avatar patrols), those avatar killing guilds would be met by 20-50 people intent on stopping them from killing avatars.  Sure they got some down but no where near as many as they would have got down on oyur carebear server.  PVP avatar guilds did something spectacular that you did not.</p>

DngrMou
03-08-2010, 10:29 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Oh its hard?  Was it harder than getting the PvP charms on a PvE server?  </p></blockquote><p>Lol.  This post sums things up nicely.</p>

Shorcon
03-08-2010, 11:29 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>There was avatar killing guilds on PVP servers, before Avatars were removed in EQ2:SF. Thus, Avatar gear was available to PVP players. Here is a clue-in for you, the large majority of PVE sever players have never killed an Avatar, rarely more than one guild per server. This means a minority of people had access to Avatar gear on PVE and PVP servers alike.I can only hope that no one from a PVP server will even attempt claiming T9 raid gear is not available to them.Now unless you're one of those players who thinks that PVP players need to be spoon fed advantages, and fail to grasp that Battlegrounds was added for everyone, not just the benefit of PVP servers, you would have no issue with items such as those you mentioned being made available to PVE servers.And if all these "badass" PVP players have no concerns with PVP healers wearing said items, they should have no issue with PVE healers wearing the same item in Battlegrounds. I am a healer. Will having the heal proc earring make or break a contest? No. But will it make a notable boost to my survivability and functionality? Yes.  When PVP is about using everything you can get, not having any access to powerful items (rolling a char on a pvp server is not an acceptable response) creates unfair advantages.  BG should always come down to skill, today, in a week, in a month, in a year. It should never come down to who comes from what server that is spoon fed the most advantages. So unless you want to say that players from PVP servers completely lack skill and ability, and require powerful proc items to be able to beat players from non-PVP servers, you will have no issue with the banshee hoop being made available to priests from PVE servers.I personally think you need to stop QQing like a little girl, support the same powerful items being made available to all priests regardless of server, and let skill determine the victory in combat.</p></blockquote><p>Well said. This goes for all items. My guess is they have a tight leash on whats what. My guess is that pvp items are being hushed as much as possible so we will not cry poverty. Keeps em feeling powerful. Keeps em earning easy gear in bgs that they can use in normal play.</p>

Notsovilepriest
03-08-2010, 11:37 PM
<p>Comparing any PvE Avatar kill and PvP Avatar kills they are not even the same thing... At all, and no matter how much you guys want to deny that fact, they are extremely different. No matter how much you want to rob PvP of any bonuses of actually playing on a PvP server full time it's not right, period.</p>

Armawk
03-08-2010, 11:56 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Comparing any PvE Avatar kill and PvP Avatar kills they are not even the same thing... At all, and no matter how much you guys want to deny that fact, they are extremely different. No matter how much you want to rob PvP of any bonuses of actually playing on a PvP server full time it's not right, period.</p></blockquote><p>The only 'bonus' playing on a PvP server should give you in BGs is skill, experience and friends also equipped with both. I am unable to fathom why you would want any other bonus..</p>

Notsovilepriest
03-09-2010, 12:04 AM
<p><cite>shaunfletcher wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Comparing any PvE Avatar kill and PvP Avatar kills they are not even the same thing... At all, and no matter how much you guys want to deny that fact, they are extremely different. No matter how much you want to rob PvP of any bonuses of actually playing on a PvP server full time it's not right, period.</p></blockquote><p>The only 'bonus' playing on a PvP server should give you in BGs is skill, experience and friends also equipped with both. I am unable to fathom why you would want any other bonus..</p></blockquote><p>No PvE'ers have all the same gear, There are people with avatar gear and people in legandary. So how is this any different, It's all available, just people don't like how it becomes available, to which I say, Tough.</p>

Jasuo
03-09-2010, 12:25 AM
<p>They put alot of old avatar gear effects onto raid/heroic instance loot in TSO and now in SF, the only two still worth using which weren't transfered to any items (that we know of yet) were the growth symbol and trixy wrist.  The transfer of those items' effects to instance loot was done with much resentment from the avatar killing raid community, but it was done regardless.</p><p>And no matter how hard you cry about keeping this one effect on pvp only servers because you are somehow the only ones entitled to it, it's going to be transfered to pve servers eventually.</p>

Armawk
03-09-2010, 12:26 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>shaunfletcher wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Comparing any PvE Avatar kill and PvP Avatar kills they are not even the same thing... At all, and no matter how much you guys want to deny that fact, they are extremely different. No matter how much you want to rob PvP of any bonuses of actually playing on a PvP server full time it's not right, period.</p></blockquote><p>The only 'bonus' playing on a PvP server should give you in BGs is skill, experience and friends also equipped with both. I am unable to fathom why you would want any other bonus..</p></blockquote><p>No PvE'ers have all the same gear, There are people with avatar gear and people in legandary. So how is this any different, It's all available, just people don't like how it becomes available, to which I say, Tough.</p></blockquote><p>Your point is spurious.. It is NOT possible for a toon from another server to get these items, and saying it is because you could reroll on a PvP server isnt even remotely relevant. </p><p>Im not all that worked up about this, working round the procs isnt that hard anyway, so I perhaps shouldnt be bothered.. but its a point of principle and Im surprised to see people defending the indefensible.</p>

Notsovilepriest
03-09-2010, 12:31 AM
If they give this to you guys, It will be a slippery slope, without a doubt

Crismorn
03-09-2010, 02:43 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>If they give this to you guys, It will be a slippery slope, without a doubt</blockquote><p>Having access to the same rewards will help to take gear out of the equation or at least lessen the difference in BG's, thats good for everyone..</p>

Naggasaki
03-09-2010, 02:48 AM
<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>If they give this to you guys, It will be a slippery slope, without a doubt</blockquote><p>Having access to the same rewards will help to take gear out of the equation or at least lessen the difference in BG's, thats good for everyone..</p></blockquote><p>You wanna take gear out of the equation? Ok, come raid in your T-1 shard armor completely through TSO and tell me that it's an even playing field. This is a moot point and I cannot fathom why people are still arguing. It's not available to you. It should not be available to t-9 toons unless they have a t-8 toon earning the tokens/w/e to buy them with. Get over it.</p>

Crismorn
03-09-2010, 03:05 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>If they give this to you guys, It will be a slippery slope, without a doubt</blockquote><p>Having access to the same rewards will help to take gear out of the equation or at least lessen the difference in BG's, thats good for everyone..</p></blockquote><p>You wanna take gear out of the equation? Ok, come raid in your T-1 shard armor completely through TSO and tell me that it's an even playing field. This is a moot point and I cannot fathom why people are still arguing. It's not available to you. It should not be available to t-9 toons unless they have a t-8 toon earning the tokens/w/e to buy them with. Get over it.</p></blockquote><p>You have toughness on your TSO pvp gear and you complain about raid gear?  Is this really happening right now?</p>

Am
03-09-2010, 03:35 AM
Yeah, I don't know why everybody is so adamant about excluding the blue servers from certain gear advantages, but as an ambassador of Nagafen i'd like to say that we all aren't elitists who would like nothing more than to see bluebies fail at Battlegrounds.

Naggasaki
03-09-2010, 05:24 AM
<p>I'm not saying 'don't let them have it". I'm saying make them have the same 'requirements' that we have in order to obtain it. That requirement *i'll state it again for the deft that cannot comprehend* is a T-8 toon earning T-8 'PvP combat' tokens. These tokens are heirloom so...now your T-9 toon can purchase this 'amazingly OP gear' that you think is breaking your game experience. I play my tank more than anything, and yes, the fear thing is annoying. Does it break my game experience...NO. I learned to adapt.</p>

Crismorn
03-09-2010, 05:49 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm not saying 'don't let them have it". I'm saying make them have the same 'requirements' that we have in order to obtain it. That requirement *i'll state it again for the deft that cannot comprehend* is a T-8 toon earning T-8 'PvP combat' tokens. These tokens are heirloom so...now your T-9 toon can purchase this 'amazingly OP gear' that you think is breaking your game experience. I play my tank more than anything, and yes, the fear thing is annoying. Does it break my game experience...NO. I learned to adapt.</p></blockquote><p>Just make a BG equivelent with tier 9 stats that is an upgrade, make it so the proc's cannot stack and problem solved.</p>

Taldier
03-09-2010, 05:56 AM
<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just make a BG equivelent with tier 9 stats that is an upgrade, make it so the proc's cannot stack and problem solved.</p></blockquote><p>This item needs to fade into obscurity.  Not be upgraded to be a staple piece of priest gear for the next 3 xpacs.</p>

Notsovilepriest
03-09-2010, 06:03 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just make a BG equivelent with tier 9 stats that is an upgrade, make it so the proc's cannot stack and problem solved.</p></blockquote><p>This item needs to fade into obscurity.  Not be upgraded to be a staple piece of priest gear for the next 3 xpacs.</p></blockquote><p>Agreed, I placed my suggestion in another thread. 3-5% Chance and insure it gives an immunity after. Problem solved, still ok, but not anywhere near what it is now.</p>

Jinoy
03-09-2010, 06:38 AM
<p>For battlegrounds my banshee hoop will be replaced as soon as I have enough tokens for that very sweet BG jewelry.  I'll have to have the armor first however so it will be awhile unless there's one less healer with banshee hoop. That item will keep its place in my inventory for open world pvp where I like having a sporting chance against those pesky ambushing scouts (sorry, Freeport!) <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Notsovilepriest
03-09-2010, 06:43 AM
<p><cite>Mardya wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>For battlegrounds my banshee hoop will be replaced as soon as I have enough tokens for that very sweet BG jewelry.  I'll have to have the armor first however so it will be awhile unless there's one less healer with banshee hoop. That item will keep its place in my inventory for open world pvp where I like having a sporting chance against those pesky ambushing scouts (sorry, Freeport!) <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>I took mine off until ever group I was going up against when I was PuG'ing was using Elemental Toxicity or 2 Sorcs which currently = Stupid</p>

Rairine
03-09-2010, 06:44 AM
<p>I guess to be honest, its just a matter of time before we are given BGs for level 70's so they could open up the route then.</p><p>However tbh, maybe BGs should have its own gear set, this way everyone is on an even playing field anyway.</p>

Naggasaki
03-09-2010, 06:51 AM
<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm not saying 'don't let them have it". I'm saying make them have the same 'requirements' that we have in order to obtain it. That requirement *i'll state it again for the deft that cannot comprehend* is a T-8 toon earning T-8 'PvP combat' tokens. These tokens are heirloom so...now your T-9 toon can purchase this 'amazingly OP gear' that you think is breaking your game experience. I play my tank more than anything, and yes, the fear thing is annoying. Does it break my game experience...NO. I learned to adapt.</p></blockquote><p>Just make a BG equivelent with tier 9 stats that is an upgrade, make it so the proc's cannot stack and problem solved.</p></blockquote><p>Your joking right? You want to copy/paste old gear into a new tier? And this stacking proc's thing you speak of is just <span style="font-size: small; font-family: Times New Roman;">ludicrous. What about that handy little ring that drops in SoH for thanks...increases hate gain. I can't remember the exact stats but are you going to tell me that when an SK casts grave sacrament, encounter taunts and then that ring procs that all classes should have grave sacrament and taunts? You're asking for a first person shooter. I don't pay to play a first person shooter, I pay to play an MMO where characters have different abilities, use different gear and contribute different stats to the group.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: Times New Roman;">If you want the gear, go get it. I firmly beleive (and you will never convince myself nor half the pvp community otherwise) that if the devs put this gear on the BG merchants, it should require a different tier of tokens than T-9. Therefore, you would have to actually EARN this gear instead of walking around a BG instance 60 times to get your tokens.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: Times New Roman;">And to Rairine, this 'even playing field' you and several other keeps suggesting will NEVER...EVER happen.  It never is, nor will it ever BE an even playing field.</span></p>

Crismorn
03-09-2010, 07:08 AM
<p>Im happy that you enjoy eq2's no loss pvp its nice that they have more resources thanks to people who are willing to play under that type of no risk, no loss pvp.</p><p>Being able to play a no loss pvp system does explain your need for a crutch,</p><p> hope you dont all rage quit when pve players have access to the same gear in Battlegrounds, because that will be the biggest loss you have ever faced in eq2 pvp.</p>

Naggasaki
03-09-2010, 07:12 AM
<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Im happy that you enjoy eq2's no loss pvp its nice that they have more resources thanks to people who are willing to play under that type of no risk, no loss pvp.</p><p>Being able to play a no loss pvp system does explain your need for a crutch,</p><p> hope you dont all rage quit when pve players have access to the same gear in Battlegrounds, because that will be the biggest loss you have ever faced in eq2 pvp.</p></blockquote><p>I do, sincerely hope that this comment is not directed at myself, ssofa or several of the other people that have been posting here. Because, in case you missed it...we're from NAGAFEN! No loss PvP indeed.</p>

Am
03-09-2010, 07:19 AM
<p>Maybe in contrast to EQ1 PvP, it seems like the loss has been marginalized, but there are still plenty of repercussions to rolling on a PvP server... such as grinding out the writs to get the gear to be able to compete in the first place. After all, we all don't have the luxury of crying on the forums for it to be handed to us.</p>

Rairine
03-09-2010, 07:42 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: Times New Roman;">And to Rairine, this 'even playing field' you and several other keeps suggesting will NEVER...EVER happen.  It never is, nor will it ever BE an even playing field.</span></p></blockquote><p>Just because it wont happen, does it make it wrong to want one?</p><p>I play BGs for fun, the tokens dont matter to me, Ive not been to see what available gear wise, my tokens are cluttering up my bags until the time I do get my backside in gear to go check whats available.</p><p>But its important to understand that SoE made the BGs cross server, and have mixed red and blue servers together into this, and while theres is difference in available gear, then one side or another will always have an advantage, this is wrong.</p><p>The problem people have with the pvp gear is that its never been available to blue servers, People will happily play against Avatar gear equipped people without moaning (too loudly) because it was available to all - this is different to everyone having, as they were still only available to the highest ranking guilds really.</p><p>However, the procs that seem to be causing the most uproar here just arent available to blue servers, and this creates an imbalance before the start.</p><p>It seems to me that the red server players are proud of their achievements on their home servers (rightly so, as they should be) and as such want to protect what they have earnt, I dont know an easy way to solve the issue really however possibly make a T9 version of the gear everone is whinging about, but make it flagged for BGs only, that way anyone can 'earn' it and use if they wish.</p><p>With regards to starting on a pvp server, tbh I have been tempted before just to experience the difference, as I have no doubt I would be extremely poor, however Im not sure how that works, Im on a EU server, with a full compliment of characters thanks to the wife!!! so have been unsure if I reinstall with the ?US patcher if Im entitled to a whole new set of toons <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Naggasaki
03-09-2010, 07:59 AM
<p>actually, I beleive that you can select region at the 'launch' page. *the one where you enter your username and pw.*</p><p>I know many brits, kiwi's, germans, aussies and sicilians that play on naggy. It's available, you just have to look for it. As for a whole new compliment of toons...I doubt it. Come on over to naggy if you're curious. Many guilds are laid back enough that you would fit right it. Prime example, my guild is only 8 members strong. Myself and Kyaaadaa and one more are the PvP nuts. Everyone else crafts, adventures, quests and occasionaly comes as supporting cast to our PvP endeavours. *it's not required*</p><p>But back to the gear. I have stated a few times, and several others have backed it in this forum, a solution to the 'gear gap' being experienced by the blue server BG players.</p><p>The gear that is causing the uproar is no longer easily attainable for t-9 players on PvP servers. We must have an alt between level 70 and 79 that is PvPing in open world. When we PvP we have a thing called a PvP writ that requires us to kill six players. Each time we complete this writ we are given 5 Void/Kunark discord tokens *depending on the writ you are completing* These tokens are heirloom. The jewelry that is causing this uproar costs approx 125 of these tokens per piece. *which are NOT heirloom* By putting these tokens into the shared bank with our tier 8 character, we can then withdraw them on our tier 9 character and go purchase this jewelry.</p><p>I hope this makes it abundantly clear just how 'not easy' it is for us to get this gear now. Allow me to amplify the lack of ease by pointing out that there is hardly ANYONE in tier 8 roaming the open world right now. Not nearly enough of a population to support the speed at which BG gear is being aquired.</p>

Rairine
03-09-2010, 10:11 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>actually, I beleive that you can select region at the 'launch' page. *the one where you enter your username and pw.*</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Yup, I knew this bit, but I didnt want to patch my existing install, just to have to patch again to play on my EU server</span></p><p>I know many brits, kiwi's, germans, aussies and sicilians that play on naggy. It's available, you just have to look for it. As for a whole new compliment of toons...I doubt it. Come on over to naggy if you're curious. Many guilds are laid back enough that you would fit right it. Prime example, my guild is only 8 members strong. Myself and Kyaaadaa and one more are the PvP nuts. Everyone else crafts, adventures, quests and occasionaly comes as supporting cast to our PvP endeavours. *it's not required*</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Well lunch time has been and gone, and a quick trip home has allowed me to get this up and running, and it appears I have space for 7 more toons <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Now what class to practice dying with? <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span></p></blockquote>

Naggasaki
03-09-2010, 10:19 AM
<p>o.0 Seven more toons? wow....neat.</p><p>Not to get OT but.....</p><p>Anyway, if you're seriously considering coming to naggy, I would suggest a melee spec'd warden for your first one. Namely for the survivability. You will be able to resist most damage types, heal AND dps. They are interesting to melee spec and, if done right, are pvp monsters in their own regard. If you like, start on Naggy and /tell myself or any of the others offering help on Q faction. (we can't globally communicate here).</p><p>Fair warning, the most frustrating tiers are 2,3 and 4 atm and you are 'flagged for pvp when not immune' the minute you hit level 10.</p>

Ralpmet
03-09-2010, 11:52 AM
<p>In order to get a banshee hoop I'd like to see the costs be about the same.</p><p>125 tokens, 5 tokens per 10 minutes.</p><p>250 Minutes of PVE healers doing something that randomly forces them to drop 2/3rds their gold, randomly get too many on their recent list so they have to add another 5 minutes to their time before they can get updates,  simply get rolled by someone who is obviously just pvping for fun.</p><p>Basically, we spent a rediculous amount of time to earn the pvp gear, a majority of you just bought master crafted and called it good. It's not, it's not the same remotely, you're putting in like 1% of the effort and expecting 100% of the gain. Get out of battlegrounds if you're not 90 and you're on a blue server, then when you are 90 grind out your tokens like everyone else.</p>

Avirodar
03-09-2010, 11:56 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The gear that is causing the uproar is no longer easily attainable for t-9 players on PvP servers. We must have an alt between level 70 and 79 that is PvPing in open world. When we PvP we have a thing called a PvP writ that requires us to kill six players. Each time we complete this writ we are given 5 Void/Kunark discord tokens *depending on the writ you are completing* These tokens are heirloom. The jewelry that is causing this uproar costs approx 125 of these tokens per piece. *which are NOT heirloom* By putting these tokens into the shared bank with our tier 8 character, we can then withdraw them on our tier 9 character and go purchase this jewelry.</p><p>I hope this makes it abundantly clear just how 'not easy' it is for us to get this gear now. Allow me to amplify the lack of ease by pointing out that there is hardly ANYONE in tier 8 roaming the open world right now. Not nearly enough of a population to support the speed at which BG gear is being aquired.</p></blockquote><p>That just made me chuckle.Sure, ever since the 16th of Feb, any level80+ toon will have some issues accumulating new rewards from T8 writs.But can you do me a favor, I seem to have -so- much trouble remembering how many years and months that TSO+ROK were the active expansions? And for the life of me, I just can not remember if T8 was considered the tier of max level for the entirety of those expansions?Prior to Feb 16th, it must have been impossibly hard for anyone on a PVP server to zerg like a noob in KP, to earn the tokens to get the gear, right?Have a nice day!</p>

PeterJohn
03-09-2010, 12:18 PM
<p><cite>Ralpmet wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Basically, we spent a rediculous amount of time to earn the pvp gear, a majority of you just bought master crafted and called it good. It's not, it's not the same remotely, you're putting in like 1% of the effort and expecting 100% of the gain. Get out of battlegrounds if you're not 90 and you're on a blue server, then when you are 90 grind out your tokens like everyone else.</p></blockquote><p>Posts like this make me wish they would separate Blue and Red servers on Battlegrounds. Reds are going to whine about deserving advantages over Blues with OP gear that was <strong>never </strong>obtainable by Blues. Blues are going to whine that they want access to gear that was <strong>very </strong>difficult and time consuming for the Reds to obtain.</p><p>Which is sad. Because I want Battlegrounds to succeed, and for it to really succeed, there needs to be lots of people participating in the games.</p>

agnott
03-09-2010, 12:56 PM
<p><span style="font-family: "><span style="font-size: x-small;">Was never a fan of pvp. </span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: "><span style="font-size: x-small;">The op seems embody what my problem is with it.  See how he keeps using the phrase "owned".  Is that not what pvp is all about?  To stick in your face when you lose and be abusive. And they’re not any less abusive when they lose either.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: "><span style="font-size: x-small;">Is that not what is going on over there?    .....I have not tried yet so maybe I’m wrong.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: "><span style="font-size: x-small;"> </span></span></p><p></p>

PeterJohn
03-09-2010, 01:12 PM
<p><cite>agnott wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="font-family: "><span style="font-size: x-small;">Was never a fan of pvp. </span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: "><span style="font-size: x-small;">The op seems embody what my problem is with it. See how he keeps using the phrase "owned". Is that not what pvp is all about? To stick in your face when you lose and be abusive. And they’re not any less abusive when they lose either.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: "><span style="font-size: x-small;">Is that not what is going on over there? .....I have not tried yet so maybe I’m wrong.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: "><span style="font-size: x-small;"> </span></span></p></blockquote><p>To be honest, Agnott, the answer it no. I have actually quite enjoyed my Battlegrounds experience so far. And I don't see alot of abuse by anyone.</p><p>The main issue of complaint that I see is the availability of certain OP gear items that PvP servers have and that in no way shape, or form is available to the PvE servers, and the demand by the PvP server players to keep that advantage in Battlegrounds.</p><p>Unless SOE figures out a way to reconcile this perceived discrepancy, I think you'll start seeing fewer and fewer PvE server players participating in Battlegrounds.</p><p>And to anyone wanting to reply to this thread, <strong>please read this</strong>:</p><p>If Blues are getting owned in Battlegrounds, and the perception by them is that they are getting owned only because of lack of ability to obtain your OP gear, then they are going to quit Battlegrounds because they think they will never be able to compete. Yes <em>I know I get owned because your skills are better than mine</em>, but let me repeat: the majority of Blues are going to attribute it only to the OP gear that they can <em>never </em>get access to, and <em>will quit Battlegrounds</em>, and never try to get better to be able to compete. If that is what Sony and you all want, then why put the effort in to create Battlegrounds in the first place?</p>

Ralpmet
03-09-2010, 02:11 PM
<p>We don't care if you get access to the banshee hoop. </p><p>What we care is that we put effort in, from level 10 on, to be exceptionally well built toons to compete with everyone else on the pvp server. You can't just wear treasured gear til 90 then gear out on our server, you can't just use the gear you get from quests, you have to go above and beyond. </p><p>All of that is rolled into the amount of work you had to do post70 to even get the item. If it required like 60 tokens or something to get I wouldn't care. But a lot of that stuff only takes like 10 wins to get, and I just ran like 5 battlegrounds in the last 40 minutes and won 4 of them, needs to be a lot more difficult than that to get the rewards we had to crawl over ourselves to get.</p>

03-09-2010, 02:25 PM
<p><cite>agnott wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="font-family: "><span style="font-size: x-small;">Was never a fan of pvp. </span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: "><span style="font-size: x-small;">The op seems embody what my problem is with it.  See how he keeps using the phrase "owned".  Is that not what pvp is all about?  To stick in your face when you lose and be abusive. And they’re not any less abusive when they lose either.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: "><span style="font-size: x-small;">Is that not what is going on over there?    .....I have not tried yet so maybe I’m wrong.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: "><span style="font-size: x-small;"> </span></span></p><p></p></blockquote><p>Just replace the phrase 'owned' with 'got killed' and that should clear up any sensitive issues you had with reading my post.</p><p>It is a hostile environment over here,  I appologize if I burned your little virgin eyeballs out with my crude terminology,  old habits die hard.</p>

Avirodar
03-09-2010, 03:31 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><snip>And if all these "badass" PVP players have no concerns with PVP healers wearing said items, they should have no issue with PVE healers wearing the same item in Battlegrounds. I am a healer. Will having the heal proc earring make or break a contest? No. But will it make a notable boost to my survivability and functionality? Yes.  When PVP is about using everything you can get, not having any access to powerful items (rolling a char on a pvp server is not an acceptable response) creates unfair advantages. </p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong>-You will STILL get owned you every time I encounter you, be it on my SK, Warlock, Brigand or Warden.</strong></span> Why? Because I carry things to counter your pathetic 'need' for gear. It's called Pots, Skill, Flexibility, imagination and above all....perseverence and determination to win.</span></p></blockquote><p>I'm with Ofnewbie on this one. If you actually want to learn to PvP, either suck it up and pay attention or come over to naggy on a level one toon on Q faction and ask some questions. I have a Warlock (great record pre-Tier <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" />, Brigand (used to be a swash that had a good record pre-Tier <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" /> Warden (I've already stated this monster's record) and my SK...stats below. And before you say T-8 zerg fest, let me tell you this, I 'hunt' for PvP.</p></blockquote><p>We ran into each other in what appeared to be PUGs, three times.Do you still stand by your claim that I will get owned every time?</p>

Crismorn
03-09-2010, 03:38 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Maybe in contrast to EQ1 PvP, it seems like the loss has been marginalized, but there are still plenty of repercussions to rolling on a PvP server... such as grinding out the writs to get the gear to be able to compete in the first place. After all, we all don't have the luxury of crying on the forums for it to be handed to us.</p></blockquote><p>What would you lose if you died to 50 different people in pvp today?</p><p>Less then a plat worth of coin, and..?</p>

Am
03-09-2010, 05:08 PM
<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Maybe in contrast to EQ1 PvP, it seems like the loss has been marginalized, but there are still plenty of repercussions to rolling on a PvP server... such as grinding out the writs to get the gear to be able to compete in the first place. After all, we all don't have the luxury of crying on the forums for it to be handed to us.</p></blockquote><p>What would you lose if you died to 50 different people in pvp today?</p><p>Less then a plat worth of coin, and..?</p></blockquote><p>Time. Hours and hours of additional time. Think about this, while you are running around, living in some sort of unnatural harmony between Freeport and Qeynos, cooperating on raids and quests, we are disabling combat experience to max our AA's and constantly twinking our characters to have the same advantage other players have... just so we can do our quests and overland mobs without getting jumped. I would go as far as to say that the average toon takes 4x what it takes you to level and get your AAs, just due to the predator factor. You can trivialize it all you want, but time is money, and by wasting additional time to run through contested zones, the gear is consequential.</p><p>Now don't get me wrong, I don't even really care if eventually get the gear on blue servers, but take a minute to think about things before you make forum posts that minimalize the amount of additional effort it takes to play on a server where everything is not rainbows and sunshine.</p>

Armawk
03-09-2010, 05:16 PM
<p><cite>Ralpmet wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>What we care is that we put effort in, from level 10 on, to be exceptionally well built toons to compete with everyone else on the pvp server. You can't just wear treasured gear til 90 then gear out on our server, you can't just use the gear you get from quests, you have to go above and beyond. </p></blockquote><p>What do you want us to care or empathise or something? Its not going to happen. You ENJOY that stuff or you would not play on a PvP server. I'm supposed to give you special credit for doing what you enjoy doing as a hobby? Be impressed or something? I dont think so. You got your reward which was the pleasure you get from playing and the rewards you got for that in your game.</p><p>In this NEW game mode you dont get anything special, and your play in PvP is not interesting or worthy of reward, except that they give you a headstart on the experience and skill needed to play BG.</p>

Albrig
03-09-2010, 06:07 PM
<p>pvp is simply a world Player environment where they are out to get you. Traditional pve doesn't like this.</p><p>pve is a world NPC environment where you are out to get them, whilst they react only when you clobber them first.</p><p>Any NPC is superior to any Player, should the NPC be aware of you first. The NPC doesn't need brains. It has everything every pvp player wants and every pve player hopes to survive against.</p><p>Pvp is for a type of individual who like action movies and tea-bagging, over say, reading.</p><p>SoE's BG introduction is designed to encompass the layout of younger players over the... older players. To get the numbers up.</p><p>However this is interpreted, both types will co-exist longer than if BG didn't exist. This is good.</p>

Notsovilepriest
03-09-2010, 06:14 PM
<p><cite>Albright wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>pvp is simply a world Player environment where they are out to get you. Traditional pve doesn't like this.</p><p>pve is a world NPC environment where you are out to get them, whilst they react only when you clobber them first.</p><p>Any NPC is superior to any Player, should the NPC be aware of you first. The NPC doesn't need brains. It has everything every pvp player wants and every pve player hopes to survive against.- <span style="color: #ff0000;">FALSE, This statement alone robs you of almost all credability you have since that can't be farther from the truth.</span></p><p>Pvp is for a type of individual who like action movies and tea-bagging, over say, reading. <span style="color: #ff0000;">This matters why? And not everyone tea-bags...</span></p><p>SoE's BG introduction is designed to encompass the layout of younger players over the... older players. To get the numbers up.</p><p>However this is interpreted, both types will co-exist longer than if BG didn't exist. This is good.</p></blockquote>

CorpseGoddess
03-09-2010, 06:30 PM
<p><cite>Albright wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>pvp is simply a world Player environment where they are out to get you. Traditional pve doesn't like this.</p><p>pve is a world NPC environment where you are out to get them, whilst they react only when you clobber them first.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>Any NPC is superior to any Player, should the NPC be aware of you first. The NPC doesn't need brains. It has everything every pvp player wants and every pve player hopes to survive against.</strong></span></p><p><span style="color: #00ccff;"><strong>Pvp is for a type of individual who like action movies and tea-bagging, over say, reading.</strong></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff00ff;"><strong>SoE's BG introduction is designed to encompass the layout of younger players over the... older players. To get the numbers up.</strong></span></p><p>However this is interpreted, both types will co-exist longer than if BG didn't exist. This is good.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Totally incorrect, and I'll tell you why.  One of the reasons I normally don't like open or unrestricted pvp is the unpredictability.  Let's take Jarsath Wastes on a pve server (which I play on, btw) as an example.  I can head out there once, 5 times, 30 times and the npc's I choose to attack will always, always, ALWAYS do the same thing, path the same path and use the same attacks.  They will also helpfully stand there like a lump while I beat them into the ground, not moving around unless I do.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Now, take a look at JW on a pvp server.  I have absolutely no idea how many players are out there, what they're capable of, what weapons or skills they have, WHERE the heck they are and where they'll be.  If I do get attacked, I have no idea which combinations of attacks they're going to use, how they're going to move around me, where they're going to run, how they're going to use their environment.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">I'm sorry, but as a pve carebear (although I'm working on that, scenarios/battlegrounds are the first step for me...), player toons will ALWAYS be scarier to me than an NPC.  Maybe with the exception of epics, that I accidentally almost run in to when turning corners (I HATE that).</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ccff;">Wow, way to make a sweeping AND condescending statement, all at once!  Again, I don't normally pvp.  I don't have the mindset for it.  However, when it's controlled (ie. scenarios/battlegrounds) I absolutely ADORE it.  I used to lead keep sieges/defenses in Warhammer.  I love zerging and bashing the snot out of people in battlegrounds.  So, based on your presumption, I really SHOULDN'T be...</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ccff;">...a 38-year-old married female who can speak Latin, reads about 10 books a week and enjoys the occasional philosophical discussion.  'Cause guess what.  I am.  I also happen to LOVE dumb action movies (anything with Vin Diesel is a plus) and I'm super-competitive and have been known to...uh...boast a bit. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /></span></p><p><span style="color: #00ccff;">But don't feel badly.  When players in Warhammer discovered that the person leading the 6-hour-long successful keep defense was a woman, they were pretty confused, too.  Preconceived notions die hard.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff00ff;">This game is comprised, more than any other mmo I've ever played, of an older playerbase (please keep in mind that "older" does not necessarily equal "more mature" <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" />).  That being said, I think that BG's may initially attract a younger playerbase, but I don't think the game will retain them.  Again, more than any other mmo I've played (with the exception of Vanguard, perhaps, and the original EQ), this game requires patience, stick-to-it-tive-ness, dedication and a wholly different mindset than most 14-year-olds usually own.  I doubt many of them will stay after the luster of BG's wears off.</span></p>

Albrig
03-09-2010, 06:59 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Totally incorrect, and I'll tell you why.  One of the reasons I normally don't like open or restricted pvp is the unpredictability.  Let's take Jarsath Wastes on a pve server (which I play on, btw) as an example.  I can head out there once, 5 times, 30 times and the npc's I choose to attack will always, always, ALWAYS do the same thing, path the same path and use the same attacks.  They will also helpfully stand there like a lump while I beat them into the ground, not moving around unless I do.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Now, take a look at JW on a pvp server.  I have absolutely no idea how many players are out there, what they're capable of, what weapons or skills they have, WHERE the heck they are and where they'll be.  If I do get attacked, I have no idea which combinations of attacks they're going to use, how they're going to move around me, where they're going to run, how they're going to use their environment.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">I'm sorry, but as a pve carebear (although I'm working on that, scenarios/battlegrounds are the first step for me...), player toons will ALWAYS be scarier to me than an NPC.  Maybe with the exception of epics, that I accidentally almost run in to when turning corners (I HATE that).</span></p></blockquote><p>This is actually a really good example of what pvp is that - to be honest - I wasn't thinking of.</p><p>However, this is how I see it, but I won't give a big paragraph, just highlighted thinking:</p><p>a) the pvp experience you're getting is random. Your own input is therefore random (how could it not be affected).</p><p>b) pve NPC's who are tougher than us -- a ^^^ heroic - that is a random input to a pve player trying it solo depending on level variance, or runs into it with no escape option</p><p>c) roaming NPC ^^^ heroics - as early as The Caves. Slaverjaw. What was the reaction of it when you first encountered it? What about the Archaic Fury wandering about in the Down Below's deepest dungeon - so NPC's don't have to be static or pointless; they can be all the a pvp player could hope to be; intimidating, dangerous and there is just as much strategy involved</p><p>d) every pvp player is going to have either an immediate knowledge of all the classes, or is conversant enough to know the mechanics - what a pvp player encountered of another pvp player is not an unknown, but rather a forced interaction</p><p>pvp players are just suffering from a lack of development in a pve orienated and crafted world of Eq2.</p><p>That's all that is going on here. I am tempted by pvp, but only if I turn the light off to what a pve crafted world can be.</p><p>BG is SoE's answer to not really doing enough things right with the core game. So the pvp focus is just a saturation point of what they could do, to what they could try with more players on a 'variety contest' scale.</p>

Taldier
03-09-2010, 07:21 PM
<p><cite>Albright wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>b) pve NPC's who are tougher than us -- a ^^^ heroic - that is a random input to a pve player trying it solo depending on level variance, or runs into it with no escape option</p><p>c) roaming NPC ^^^ heroics - as early as The Caves. Slaverjaw. What was the reaction of it when you first encountered it? What about the Archaic Fury wandering about in the Down Below's deepest dungeon - so NPC's don't have to be static or pointless; they can be all the a pvp player could hope to be; intimidating, dangerous and there is just as much strategy involved</p></blockquote><p>At the risk of going off topic I feel compelled to point out that these ^^^ mobs do not gear themselves up.  And that they are only "intimidating" when you are totally new to the game and dont know how, or cant be bothered to gear your character in lvl appropriate gear.  They always attack using the same attacks and path along the same programmed patrol pattern.</p><p>All of these mobs, and all other pve mobs, are completely trivialized by outgearing them.  Pvp players continuously struggle against each other in an unending gear war for minor advantages to tip the fight in close engagements.</p><p>This is the difference between pve and pvp.  When you reach the highest pinnacle of pve...youre done, youve geared yourself out so much that all of the current content is trivial and you can just quit playing until the next xpac.</p><p>On a pvp server, you can never reach that pinnacle.  There is always something that you need to continuously do keep up with other players who are pushing to pass you by.  No matter how uber you are, no matter how great you think you are, someone is going to kill you.</p>

Jasuo
03-09-2010, 08:20 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Maybe in contrast to EQ1 PvP, it seems like the loss has been marginalized, but there are still plenty of repercussions to rolling on a PvP server... such as grinding out the writs to get the gear to be able to compete in the first place. After all, we all don't have the luxury of crying on the forums for it to be handed to us.</p></blockquote><p>What would you lose if you died to 50 different people in pvp today?</p><p>Less then a plat worth of coin, and..?</p></blockquote><p>Time. Hours and hours of additional time. Think about this, while you are running around, living in some sort of unnatural harmony between Freeport and Qeynos, cooperating on raids and quests, we are disabling combat experience to max our AA's and constantly twinking our characters to have the same advantage other players have... just so we can do our quests and overland mobs without getting jumped. I would go as far as to say that the average toon takes 4x what it takes you to level and get your AAs, just due to the predator factor. You can trivialize it all you want, but time is money, and by wasting additional time to run through contested zones, the gear is consequential.</p><p>Now don't get me wrong, I don't even really care if eventually get the gear on blue servers, but take a minute to think about things before you make forum posts that minimalize the amount of additional effort it takes to play on a server where everything is not rainbows and sunshine.</p></blockquote><p>You use time as a defense as if players in a pve world just have to log in and are already max level/max aa/ geared out.  EQ2 pvp is carebear.</p><p>What exactly is your time played on a normal pvp toon?</p>

Vlahkmaak
03-09-2010, 09:31 PM
<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Im happy that you enjoy eq2's no loss pvp its nice that they have more resources thanks to people who are willing to play under that type of no risk, no loss pvp.</p><p>Being able to play a no loss pvp system does explain your need for a crutch,</p><p> hope you dont all rage quit when pve players have access to the same gear in Battlegrounds, because that will be the biggest loss you have ever faced in eq2 pvp.</p></blockquote><p>When did you last pay a necro to summon your corpse, or a monk to go get your corpse? Ahh, thats right, never.  The closest you would of come is the fist season pre shard nerf.  Guess your playing on a no loss blue server explains your need for a crutch right?  Ooooooo- scary carebear BG threats.   /corpsehumps himself for the carebear.</p>