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View Full Version : Battlefield of Ganak Exploit.... Glide


swedago
03-07-2010, 12:55 AM
<p>People are using glide, or similar abilities, to hold flag at top of the structures that are not reachable by players when their flag is being held by others.  One thing is hiding, fighting with, or defending the flag, but this method is pretty unfair.</p>

Taldier
03-07-2010, 02:26 AM
<p>Cause like those tinkered boots would totally cost you 5 gold...the horror..the horrrroorrr!</p>

Harbringer Doom
03-07-2010, 03:48 AM
<p>The fact that everyone is able to get tinkered boots is not a solution to the ridiculous jackholes that think this is an intended strategy.</p><p>Certain geometry should not be jump-on-able to prevent this ridiculous loophole.</p>

Megavolt
03-07-2010, 04:04 AM
<p>agreed, half of the ganak runs I've been it usually comes to 2 people sitting on top of unreachable structure for melees, making it a contest of who can get their mages to teh other side. Add the fact that mage potency bonuses for their armor pieces exceed toughness bonuses of melee armor pieces, it's making BG's less and less fun as a non-ranged class.</p>

Naggasaki
03-07-2010, 04:23 AM
<p>Wow...just...wow. It's part of the game. If you can climb on it as a ranger, are you gonna complain about being able to snipe people off without the risk of being melee'd down? No. But I'll bet there are some brawlers out there that would get a momentary smile from dragging your 'exploiting toon' off said structure and pulverizing him.</p>

Kyaaadaa
03-07-2010, 05:47 AM
<p>The sound I'm hearing is "Make all maps flat and terrainless because I think its unfair"... read Sun Tsu's Art of War. Learn terrain can be both blessing and curse, and get the fk over it. Better would be to kill and grief the boot users so they can't get the flag to said locations. There is of course another way... keep your flag and stop losing.</p>

Vlahkmaak
03-07-2010, 07:00 AM
<p>WHAMBULANCE!!!!!</p><p>Seriously - get yourself a pair of jumpy boots and get up their and kick their behind.  Better yet - bring a few pet classes into your BG and sic them on the person. Problem solved.</p>

Naggasaki
03-07-2010, 07:14 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The fact that everyone is able to get tinkered boots is not a solution to the ridiculous jackholes that think this is an intended strategy.</p><p>Certain geometry should not be jump-on-able to prevent this ridiculous loophole.</p></blockquote><p>This isn't meant to be an attack Hork, so please don't take it that way but, what IS an intended strategy for 'capture the flag'?</p><p>Last time I checked, there were two ways to play capture the flag and most of the time, both ways happen at the same time.</p><p>1.) Get your opponents flag back to your base.</p><p>2.) Keep your opponent from getting your flag by most means necessary. (this includes hiding it from obvious sight)</p><p>By the way, it's not that hard to find. I held the flag the other day...it has this HUGE wisp trail that comes off it, even if it's stationary. Pretty easy to see...I felt like I had a bullseye on my forehead.</p>

Kyaaadaa
03-07-2010, 07:28 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Seriously - get yourself a pair of jumpy boots and get up their and kick their behind.  Better yet - bring a few pet classes into your BG and sic them on the person. Problem solved.</p></blockquote><p>Or better, and this will just absolutely flabberghast a lot of people... COMMUNICATE!!</p><p>"Hey Mage, that fker has his flag up there, drop comets until he comes down."</p><p>"I'm on it!" BOOM BOOM "Here he comes, taunt him taunt him!"</p><p>"Get a root... kick his head in!"</p><p>"OK, he's dead, run the flag GOGOGO!"</p><p>This is a typical conversation between a group of people. If you have vent, use it. If you have voice chat, use it. If you don't use either... get owned.</p>

lollipop
03-07-2010, 08:21 AM
<p>lol wow people just like to complain about anything.....</p>

Ahlana
03-07-2010, 08:26 AM
<p>My 2cp as well, Geometry is a very valid Tactic. I have seen rangers use it to awesomeness (even though I hate it when they do and I get owned haha).</p><p>I carry around the tinkered boots for just such an occasion as to get to people like this. It really makes battles more 3d and fun IMO /shrug</p>

BMonkeeus
03-07-2010, 09:55 AM
The QQ is strong in this one.

Neskonlith
03-07-2010, 02:02 PM
<p><span style="color: #ff0000;">As long as all other players can also get to the same areas without cheating by using a 3rd party program or bug exploit, it is a valid use of available strategic terrain and legal in-game gear.</span></p>

hellfire
03-07-2010, 04:12 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p> Better yet - bring a few pet classes into your BG and sic them on the person. Problem solved.</p></blockquote><p>Umm we cant send the pet  onto someone when you cant reach the spot yourself. What has to happen is the person that is in the unreachable spot attacks and hits me then the pet will protect me if i have the option selected.</p><p>But no you cant just send the pet  anywhere and everywhere it doesnt work that way.</p>

Dorsan
03-07-2010, 04:46 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Umm we cant send the pet  onto someone when you cant reach the spot yourself. What has to happen is the person that is in the unreachable spot attacks and hits me then the pet will protect me if i have the option selected.</p><p>But no you cant just send the pet  anywhere and everywhere it doesnt work that way.</p></blockquote><p>You don't play a pet class do you?</p><p>I am a necro and my pet goes where I want it to go. In fact I sent it to a hiding tank, then exchanged my place with pets place and pwned him. If your summoners cant do this then get new summoners.</p>

Ambrin
03-07-2010, 05:16 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Umm we cant send the pet  onto someone when you cant reach the spot yourself. What has to happen is the person that is in the unreachable spot attacks and hits me then the pet will protect me if i have the option selected.</p><p>But no you cant just send the pet  anywhere and everywhere it doesnt work that way.</p></blockquote><p>You don't play a pet class do you?</p><p>I am a necro and my pet goes where I want it to go. In fact I sent it to a hiding tank, then exchanged my place with pets place and pwned him. If your summoners cant do this then get new summoners.</p></blockquote><p>You're pet will only attack targets that you can see (at the time of sending him in for the attack). If you can't see the target or your pet is otherwise not engaged with your target your pet will run and stand beside your target, but it won't actually be attacking the target.</p><p>I am pretty sure this how pets work in PvP anyways, from my own personal observations.</p>

Xanrn
03-07-2010, 05:28 PM
<p>Oh please what aload of bulldung from you people exploiting geomatry</p><p>So i am ment to to get to the enemy base, put on my cloak and jumpy boots and then somehow getup to the guy with my teams flag who is hiding on the high aqeduct where people spawn while being shot to pieces or one shotted by the the people guarding him.</p><p>Also if its so freakin easy why is it only a few that do it and you can go game after game without seeing anyone do it. If its so freakin easy why is it noone can get to them when they do exploit.</p><p>All of these pathetic arguements are the exact same dross that was trotted out when Gnomish boots first went live and PvP was full of people exploiting geomatry.</p><p>If you were ment to get up there, the designers of the map would have put ladders/ramps.</p>

Ambrin
03-07-2010, 05:43 PM
<p>You put on your jump-boots and than jump onto the aqueduct on the said of the base that the opposing team does not spawn on (left side facing towards their base). You than jump towards the hole in the wall, once you land there you aim for center structure on the back of the enemy base. Unequip your boots and proceed kill the person with the flag. Alternatively, there is no place on the aqueduct system that a player can go where they cannot be hit by another player on the ground.</p><p>If you weren't meant to make full use of the geometry the landscape would be flat with invisibles walls blocking areas the devs don't want you.</p>

Taldier
03-07-2010, 07:12 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Oh please what aload of bulldung from you people exploiting geomatry</p><p>So i am ment to to get to the enemy base, put on my cloak and jumpy boots and then somehow getup to the guy with my teams flag who is hiding on the high aqeduct where people spawn while being shot to pieces or one shotted by the the people guarding him.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">No, you are meant to go over there with your raid and kill the people guarding him.  Then you go and kill him.  If you are being "shot to pieces" or "oneshotted" you wouldnt be able to kill him regardless of where he happened to be standing.</span></p><p>Also if its so freakin easy why is it only a few that do it and you can go game after game without seeing anyone do it. If its so freakin easy why is it noone can get to them when they do exploit.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Because the majority of pve players are used to fighting a mob that is standing right in front of them and cant deal with 3 dimensions.  I've yet to see a decent pvper who took more than 2 min figuring out how to get anywhere on the map.</span></p><p>All of these pathetic arguements are the exact same dross that was trotted out when Gnomish boots first went live and PvP was full of people exploiting geomatry.</p><p>If you were ment to get up there, the designers of the map would have put ladders/ramps.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">You are the same easymode mindset of player who calls out rangers for "exploiting" cliffs and rooftops.  Get this, the designers of the maps created a 3d world for you to move around in.  If you cant deal with that I suggest you go play a pen and paper game.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Just becuase your little dueling circle forces people to stand still on a flat surface that doesnt mean its at all relevant to pvp.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Using the movement keys and spacebar is not an exploit.  Calling it that is just outright laughable.</span></p></blockquote>

hellfire
03-07-2010, 07:52 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Umm we cant send the pet  onto someone when you cant reach the spot yourself. What has to happen is the person that is in the unreachable spot attacks and hits me then the pet will protect me if i have the option selected.</p><p>But no you cant just send the pet  anywhere and everywhere it doesnt work that way.</p></blockquote><p>You don't play a pet class do you?</p><p>I am a necro and my pet goes where I want it to go. In fact I sent it to a hiding tank, then exchanged my place with pets place and pwned him. If your summoners cant do this then get new summoners.</p></blockquote><p>Of corse i  have played a Conjuror since day one.</p><p>And if the person is in a unreachable spot then the pet will not attack ...this is nothing new...where have you been?</p><p>Just like you cant switch spots with the pet if you cant see the pet ...ya know the whole los thing which you cant send the pet after the person to begin with.</p><p>Just cause you have a target means nothing you need line of sight.</p><p>Why do you think people are complaining that relic or flag are getting exploited ....cause there is no line of sight...its not hard to understand that.</p>

riid
03-07-2010, 08:01 PM
<p>Actually you dont need los to get your pet to attack them all you need is a target. Put your pet to melee stand on the ground by where they are at click your pets attack button and he will run right up to them and start attacking them. Killed a guy hiding in the hole all the way in the back of the aquaduct like this the other day. when the pet is about to die just back it off heal it and send it back in.</p>

Dorsan
03-07-2010, 10:03 PM
<p><cite>riid wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Actually you dont need los to get your pet to attack them all you need is a target. Put your pet to melee stand on the ground by where they are at click your pets attack button and he will run right up to them and start attacking them. Killed a guy hiding in the hole all the way in the back of the aquaduct like this the other day. when the pet is about to die just back it off heal it and send it back in.</p></blockquote><p>Exactly, put the pet to melee and the pet will run there line of sight or no line of sight. On top of that I was always able to jump up and have the person in line of sight and swap position with the pet so far. Not always on first try but it is not a problem to die a few times in a bg if it means your team will win at the end.</p>

hellfire
03-08-2010, 04:34 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>riid wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Actually you dont need los to get your pet to attack them all you need is a target. Put your pet to melee stand on the ground by where they are at click your pets attack button and he will run right up to them and start attacking them. Killed a guy hiding in the hole all the way in the back of the aquaduct like this the other day. when the pet is about to die just back it off heal it and send it back in.</p></blockquote><p>Exactly, put the pet to melee and the pet will run there line of sight or no line of sight. On top of that I was always able to jump up and have the person in line of sight and swap position with the pet so far. Not always on first try but it is not a problem to die a few times in a bg if it means your team will win at the end.</p></blockquote><p>Then explain in these 2 screen shots why the pet cant not attack?Nothing special then the norm of someone in the back of the ramp where i dont have line of sight in the first pic.The second pic is the warden on the left hand of the base visible almost fully to me with her wolf pack on me and the pet will not attack her.</p><p>I will say it again...pet pathing was revamped back in the beginning of kos and  elavations and access will restrict the pet following your commands to attack something.This is the same in pve as it is in pvp and has been for years.</p><p>If you get hit from  anywhere and you have pet set to protect self the pet will then hunt out the person......and that is the only way for the pet to reach certain areas.</p><p><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v500/bigdawgz/EQ2_000118.jpg" /></p><p><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v500/bigdawgz/EQ2_000125-1.jpg" /></p>

Naggasaki
03-08-2010, 04:46 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Oh please what aload of bulldung from you people exploiting geomatry</p><p>So i am ment to to get to the enemy base, put on my cloak and jumpy boots and then somehow getup to the guy with my teams flag who is hiding on the high aqeduct where people spawn while being shot to pieces or one shotted by the the people guarding him.</p><p>Also if its so freakin easy why is it only a few that do it and you can go game after game without seeing anyone do it. If its so freakin easy why is it noone can get to them when they do exploit.</p><p>All of these pathetic arguements are the exact same dross that was trotted out when Gnomish boots first went live and PvP was full of people exploiting geomatry.</p><p>If you were ment to get up there, the designers of the map would have put ladders/ramps.</p></blockquote><p>I'm ashamed to have to point this out to a player from a PvE server where RP events are actually attended by the populace. USE YOUR IMAGINATION. God! How hard is it to think to yourself "I wonder if I can get up there?" and then, follow through with said thought and find out?</p>

Harbringer Doom
03-11-2010, 01:26 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The fact that everyone is able to get tinkered boots is not a solution to the ridiculous jackholes that think this is an intended strategy.</p><p>Certain geometry should not be jump-on-able to prevent this ridiculous loophole.</p></blockquote><p>This isn't meant to be an attack Hork, so please don't take it that way but, what IS an intended strategy for 'capture the flag'?</p><p>Last time I checked, there were two ways to play capture the flag and most of the time, both ways happen at the same time.</p><p>1.) Get your opponents flag back to your base.</p><p>2.) Keep your opponent from getting your flag by most means necessary. (this includes hiding it from obvious sight)</p><p>By the way, it's not that hard to find. I held the flag the other day...it has this HUGE wisp trail that comes off it, even if it's stationary. Pretty easy to see...I felt like I had a bullseye on my forehead.</p></blockquote><p>You want me to list what I think the intended strategies for capture the flag are?  Its unclear to me where that would get us. </p><p>Let me start with two points:</p><p>1.  I agree with your assesssment of the basic strategy of the capture the flag game.  Well done.</p><p>2.  This also isn't meant to be an attack, but I'm not surprised you support hiding the flag atop the building.</p><p>So, let me ask you this, when people were SOMEHOW (/wink /wink) able to get the gear up to their base in the single group instance, and just stand around hiding in the back of their start zone until the clock ticked down, did you think that was an intended, legitimate strategy? </p><p>My opinion would be no, no it was not.   And I'm pretty sure they've made it so that is impossible to do now.   So, my point in bringing this up would be that this is an example of a time when SOE overlooked a possible "strategy", saw people abusing that unintended strategy, and hotfixed the situation.  Those of you who think that was perfectly acceptable strategy, and were sorry to see it go?  We're never going to convince each other otherwise, so we really don't have much more to discuss.  Just quote this post, put a check mark in the space below, and move along:</p><p>___ Horknut is a whiner</p><p>Personally, I think the geometry of the x2 zone above the flag area is in the same realm.  No, its not as extreme as the Gears example, and yes, its <em><strong>possible </strong></em>to get up there and kill the person hiding the flag, but I don't think the x2 was intended to be a game of who can hide the flag the best in some tricky piece of overly defensible piece of geometry.</p><p>I'd feel extemely cheap having to resort to that to win.  And its somewhat depressing when that's the route my team (or one member of it) choses to take.</p><p>No, the geometry doesn't have to be flat, or be an open field, or be whatever other ridiculous exaggerations people have stated.  Overall, I think they made some good decisions with regards to the set up of the playing fields; especially the design of ingress and egress of the x2 flag castles (aside from this one point) and into the center tower in the x4. </p><p>I simply do not believe that this one point was intended.   You may disagree.  Its okay to disagree.  No one has to wet their diaper over a difference of opinion.</p><p>We now return you to our regularly scheduled screaming, fist pounding, teeth gnashing and hair pulling because some people had the audacity to suggest jumpy-boot-top-of-the-tower-hidey-hole area be removed, turning the capture the flag playing field into a boring old, flat-field-cookie-cutter-game.  </p><p>Oh the humanity.</p>

bryan4171
03-11-2010, 01:29 PM
<p>I played yesterday and could no longer pick up my own flag so is this not moot?</p>

Harbringer Doom
03-11-2010, 02:04 PM
<p>AFAIK you could never pick up and hold your own flag. </p><p>This is about picking up the other team's flag and taking it back to your base and hiding above <strong>your </strong>base with <strong>their </strong>flag.</p><p>Because if you hold the other teams flag away from its home they cannot score.</p>

Blambil
03-11-2010, 02:30 PM
<p>Honestly the only real problem here is that the "safe" spot, and the respawn spot, are the same thing.. as proven multiple times in Ganak last night, that's an almost impossible momentum to overcome..</p><p>Yes, the pet can attack the flag carrier up there.. yes, I killed the flag carrier multiple times in that spot last night... but then a freshly respawned enemy picks the flag up.. you can only rinse/repeat so many times till you're out of power/dead.</p><p>Honestly, it would be great to have MORE places people can jump to.. Learn how to get to them, learn how to get someone down.. Just like life...</p><p><strong>but move the respawn point..</strong></p>

bryan4171
03-11-2010, 02:36 PM
<p>Well if you don't like the fact we have a 3d environment i hear Ultima Online is still running!!</p><p>And a exploit is that not being a little harsh.  Its called jumping!! If you come into a game with me you will see me up there filling your non jumping self full of arrows.  And I have gotten dropped, knocked off, even drug down from there.  </p><p>Getting dragged down had to be the best!!</p><p>Thank you come again.  </p>

Harbringer Doom
03-11-2010, 02:47 PM
<p>I agree calling it an "exploit" is harsh. </p><p>I don't think people will be (or should be) punished for using the "strategy".</p><p>It just seems cheap and boring to me.  /shrug</p>

Taldier
03-11-2010, 03:24 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So, let me ask you this, when people were SOMEHOW (/wink /wink) able to get the gear up to their base in the single group instance, and just stand around hiding in the back of their start zone until the clock ticked down, did you think that was an intended, legitimate strategy? </p><p>My opinion would be no, no it was not.   And I'm pretty sure they've made it so that is impossible to do now.   So, my point in bringing this up would be that this is an example of a time when SOE overlooked a possible "strategy", saw people abusing that unintended strategy, and hotfixed the situation.  Those of you who think that was perfectly acceptable strategy, and were sorry to see it go?  We're never going to convince each other otherwise, so we really don't have much more to discuss.  Just quote this post, put a check mark in the space below, and move along:</p></blockquote><p>There is a huge difference between somewhere only two classes, which are unlikely to be on the enemy team, can potentially get to and somewhere that every person on your team can get to together if they have a brain and basic motor skills.</p><p>The situations arent even remotely comparable.</p>

Vlahkmaak
03-11-2010, 03:47 PM
<p>My necro pet has never ahd an issue attacking someone in Ganak when they are on top of the battlement.  Instead of screaming foul and exploit becuase you are behind us 5 years on the learnign curve try figuring out a solution.</p>

Captain Apple Darkberry
03-11-2010, 05:41 PM
<p><cite>BMonkeeus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>The QQ is strong in this one.</blockquote><p>Q...</p><p>F...</p><p>E...</p><p>Seriously... legitimate movement options, including glide, are not exploits.</p><p>...and YES, stating that tinkered boots are a solution to this "problem" IS acceptable.  5 gold...at level 80.  Let me guess...you don't feel you should have to use potions to cure detriments either?</p><p>Don't water this rule set down by listening to the QQ'ers.  What do you want?  Everyone on an absolute even field in ALL circumstances and in regards to ALL abilities/tasks?  The ONLY way you can have such a thing is by having once class...and one race...and one set of gear...and no pots/totems...and...well, you get it by now.  At least I hope you do...</p><p>If someone is using a 3rd party program to do things that can't be achieved by use of normal game mechanics, they are exploiting; /petition them.  If you are upset because a Fay glided...then please log on to the marketplace and buy a race change.</p>

Aenashi
03-11-2010, 06:37 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Umm we cant send the pet  onto someone when you cant reach the spot yourself. What has to happen is the person that is in the unreachable spot attacks and hits me then the pet will protect me if i have the option selected.</p><p>But no you cant just send the pet  anywhere and everywhere it doesnt work that way.</p></blockquote><p>You don't play a pet class do you?</p><p>I am a necro and my pet goes where I want it to go. In fact I sent it to a hiding tank, then exchanged my place with pets place and pwned him. If your summoners cant do this then get new summoners.</p></blockquote><p>i just had to quote this again and its hard to believe he typed it... </p><p>see his SIG:</p><p><span >:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Summoner pets are 1/3 the dps of a summoner and yet our stats and modifiers do not affect them.Since a pet is 1/3 a summoners dps,a summoner receives 2/3 benifit from gear when compared to any other class. <span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>SHARED STATS AND MODIFIERS ARE A MUST! <span style="font-size: large;">FIX SUMMONERS IN 08! FIX SUMMONERS IN 09! FIX SUMMONERS IN 10!</span></strong></span></span></p><p>I wonder if he is a pet class or not... <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

rareyrare
03-11-2010, 08:13 PM
<p>Sorry you sold out to the Light side Dorsan :-/</p><p>That said the OP clearly finds having to pay 5 gp for some jump boots or level a tinnkerer up to, what? 40/450??? is asking WAY too much.</p><p>/shrug</p>

Outkasted2006
03-11-2010, 09:23 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Sorry you sold out to the Light side Dorsan :-/</p><p>That said the OP clearly finds having to pay 5 gp for some jump boots or level a tinnkerer up to, what? 40/450??? is asking WAY too much.</p><p>/shrug</p></blockquote><p>Your suprised? This game has been dumbed down so much, if something isn't gift wrapped to a lot of these people it's time to /bug report, flame, /petition/ and cry.</p><p>The gift pvp gear in t8 really opened the flood gates imo...</p>

Nimbrithil
03-12-2010, 02:08 AM
<p>Send in a conji or necro, I personally LOVE to see someone do this,,,I just send in the pet and move just out fo range of the flag holder and let the pet rip them apart.</p>

Peak
03-12-2010, 02:22 AM
<p>I bring to you a petition response from years ago regarding a similar situation with this very same tactic.</p><p>In this case, a Ranger was sitting atop walls in The Ruins. From his location, he was able to attack me yet due to Line of Sight I could not attack him.</p><p>Here is the GM's response:</p><p style="padding-left: 30px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, Tahoma, sans-serif;">Greetings Pillow, GM Chandrok responding. Thank you for bringing this issue to our attention.</span></p><p style="padding-left: 30px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, Tahoma, sans-serif;">I am sorry to hear that --- is using the Gnomish Stilts to gain an advantage in PvP by leaping atop walls. While I do understand your concern this is a legitimate use of the stilts. In order to counter this strategy I would advise obtaining identical sets of these stilts on your friendly players and fighting him atop the very walls he enjoys perching on. My apologies for the inconvenience. If you have any other issues we may be able to address in the future, please contact us at your convenience. We wish you good luck and safe journey in the lands of Norrath.Sincerely,GM ChandrokIn-Game CSR -- EverQuest IISony Online Entertainment</span></p><p>Please stop crying about this subject now.</p><p>You can easily get on top of the walls with or without Glide. While being attacked.</p>

Harbringer Doom
03-12-2010, 12:13 PM
<p>Out of curiosity, why were you crying about it back then?</p>

Alazarz
03-12-2010, 12:44 PM
<p>they should defanitley fix this issue of flag holding atop the rez spots in ganak.. cant lie i have used this once before. dosent make it right.. it is an exploit that needs to be fixed.. usually what ends up happening is a long drawn out match winning off of kills instead of the said objective.. anyone who thinks / wants this to not be fixed are the ones doing it on the daily and it's their "thing" and they do not want it taken away..because what would they do if they couldnt exploit? lose? and ya i know that the person can get Touched uptop there.. (an onyx player cleverly used glide to reach me and feared me of before i knew what was going wrong) but still..its an exploit and needs to be fixed at once..</p><p>regards,</p><p>   xav</p>

Badmotorfinger
03-12-2010, 01:22 PM
<p>Just to comment on the Pet not being able to attack due to "invalid" target...</p><p>It's a bug.</p><p>It happens even when Characters are on the same plain.  I've been able to hit other players but not able to send my pet on numerous occasions.  If this happens, toggle the pet to defend you.  It'll then bypass the bug. </p><p>Another tip:  if the opponent is in a poor line of site, move out of range before you send the pet in.  he'll then move to a spot with appropriate line of site.</p><p>but no, you don't need to see your enemy to be able to send in the pet.</p>

Attrikane
03-12-2010, 02:35 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Seriously - get yourself a pair of jumpy boots and get up their and kick their behind.  Better yet - bring a few pet classes into your BG and sic them on the person. Problem solved.</p></blockquote><p>Or better, and this will just absolutely flabberghast a lot of people... COMMUNICATE!!</p><p>"Hey Mage, that fker has his flag up there, drop comets until he comes down."</p><p>"I'm on it!" BOOM BOOM "Here he comes, taunt him taunt him!"</p><p>"Get a root... kick his head in!"</p><p>"OK, he's dead, run the flag GOGOGO!"</p><p>This is a typical conversation between a group of people. If you have vent, use it. If you have voice chat, use it. If you don't use either... get owned.</p></blockquote><p>OFE - and I'm a "melee" class. </p>

Ahlana
03-12-2010, 02:39 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] Bazaar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Seriously - get yourself a pair of jumpy boots and get up their and kick their behind.  Better yet - bring a few pet classes into your BG and sic them on the person. Problem solved.</p></blockquote><p>Or better, and this will just absolutely flabberghast a lot of people... COMMUNICATE!!</p><p>"Hey Mage, that fker has his flag up there, drop comets until he comes down."</p><p>"I'm on it!" BOOM BOOM "Here he comes, taunt him taunt him!"</p><p>"Get a root... kick his head in!"</p><p>"OK, he's dead, run the flag GOGOGO!"</p><p>This is a typical conversation between a group of people. If you have vent, use it. If you have voice chat, use it. If you don't use either... get owned.</p></blockquote><p>OFE - and I'm a "melee" class. </p></blockquote><p>+1 Melee class and I just equip jumpy.. jump over and kick em down.. esspecially good for tricky mages that get up there and rain dooooooom down.</p>

Taldier
03-12-2010, 02:57 PM
<p><cite>Xaviour wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>they should defanitley fix this issue of flag holding atop the rez spots in ganak.. cant lie i have used this once before. dosent make it right.. it is an exploit that needs to be fixed.. usually what ends up happening is a long drawn out match winning off of kills instead of the said objective.. anyone who thinks / wants this to not be fixed are the ones doing it on the daily and it's their "thing" and they do not want it taken away..because what would they do if they couldnt exploit? lose? and ya i know that the person can get Touched uptop there.. (an onyx player cleverly used glide to reach me and feared me of before i knew what was going wrong) but still..its an exploit and needs to be fixed at once..</p><p>regards,</p><p>   xav</p></blockquote><p>I've killed people up there, by myself, as a melee class.</p><p>People seriously need to L2basic motor skills.</p><p>Personally I've never taken the flag there because its actually one of the least defensible spots along the wall.  Its easy to hit people up there and the flag carrier cant do much to stop people preparing to jump over and attack.</p><p>Obviously if the entire enemy team is sitting on the rez point its an issue, but you shouldnt be charging solo into the entire enemy team no matter where they are.</p>

hellfire
03-12-2010, 04:55 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It happens even when Characters are on the same plain.  I've been able to hit other players but not able to send my pet on numerous occasions.  If this happens, toggle the pet to defend you.  It'll then bypass the bug. </p></blockquote><p>Only if you get hit by that person....and if you dont  then there is no by passing anything.</p><p>Again people the pet will not go everywhere when ever you want it to.</p><p>One would think the screen shots i posted in this thread would clearly show that.</p>

Taldier
03-12-2010, 05:26 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It happens even when Characters are on the same plain.  I've been able to hit other players but not able to send my pet on numerous occasions.  If this happens, toggle the pet to defend you.  It'll then bypass the bug. </p></blockquote><p>Only if you get hit by that person....and if you dont  then there is no by passing anything.</p><p>Again people the pet will not go everywhere when ever you want it to.</p><p>One would think the screen shots i posted in this thread would clearly show that.</p></blockquote><p>I cant say I know very much about pet movement mechanics.  But I can say with near absolute certainty, that in open pvp I have had pets sent at me when there is no possible way the caster had line of sight.</p>

Peak
03-12-2010, 07:46 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Out of curiosity, why were you crying about it back then?</p></blockquote><p>Jump boots had just come out.It could have been considered an exploit as it isn't immediately obvious how to accomplish such a feat.</p><p>But it's not. And still isn't.</p>

MadHatter1
03-12-2010, 11:13 PM
<p>Basically what I'm reading from all the complaints is, "....boohoohooo...I'm incapable of adapting and modifying my concept of what Battlegrounds should and should not be."  "I'm also incapable of overcoming certain unforseen obstacles."  If this is the case, then you probably shouldn't be pvp'ing.  Battlegrounds are what they are...accept it.  You know what people are capable of...learn / figure out how to do it yourself.</p>

Haliken
03-13-2010, 01:44 AM
<p><cite>MadHatter1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Basically what I'm reading from all the complaints is, "....boohoohooo...I'm incapable of adapting and modifying my concept of what Battlegrounds should and should not be."  "I'm also incapable of overcoming certain unforseen obstacles."  If this is the case, then you probably shouldn't be pvp'ing.  Battlegrounds are what they are...accept it.  You know what people are capable of...learn / figure out how to do it yourself.</p></blockquote><p>The 6v6 and 12v12 Battlegrounds are specifically intended to not allow people to return to the respawn areas after leaving them. That's why there is no obvious staircase or ramp or walkway at equal level to get back up with ease.</p><p>So, the Battlegrounds "should not be" allowing people to return to the respawn areas because they were not intended to become accessible again after leaving them.</p><p>Saying that doing so is a legitimate tactic because you CAN do it is relative to the claims about duplicating items by exploiting the Battlegrounds process. People came to the conclusion that because you can, you should. That's NOT how it's meant to be and, because of that, it's the basis on which people are deciding for themselves that reaching what should be an inaccessible location is a reasonable tactic.</p>

Taldier
03-13-2010, 02:09 AM
<p><cite>Haliken wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>MadHatter1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Basically what I'm reading from all the complaints is, "....boohoohooo...I'm incapable of adapting and modifying my concept of what Battlegrounds should and should not be."  "I'm also incapable of overcoming certain unforseen obstacles."  If this is the case, then you probably shouldn't be pvp'ing.  Battlegrounds are what they are...accept it.  You know what people are capable of...learn / figure out how to do it yourself.</p></blockquote><p>The 6v6 and 12v12 Battlegrounds are specifically intended to not allow people to return to the respawn areas after leaving them. That's why there is no obvious staircase or ramp or walkway at equal level to get back up with ease.</p><p>So, the Battlegrounds "should not be" allowing people to return to the respawn areas because they were not intended to become accessible again after leaving them.</p><p>Saying that doing so is a legitimate tactic because you CAN do it is relative to the claims about duplicating items by exploiting the Battlegrounds process. People came to the conclusion that because you can, you should. That's NOT how it's meant to be and, because of that, it's the basis on which people are deciding for themselves that reaching what should be an inaccessible location is a reasonable tactic.</p></blockquote><p>If they were reaching it by falling through a hole in the geometry and appearing there then you would have a valid point. </p><p>Using the movement keys and spacebar to land on legitimate terrain features is never (need I repeat, never) an exploit.</p><p>If it was not intended for people to be able to stand on the terrain it would not have collision.  You will often see this with chains over pits and various other features in the open world which appear to exist but have no actual collision.</p><p>Getting to the spawn point in the 6v6 with the relic would be an exploit because there is no way whatsoever to get the relic there without using an ability which teleports you from one point to another.  Obviously this is unlikely to be counterable and is therefore an unintended use of that specific ability.</p><p>In ganak however, there is absolutely nothing stopping an entire raid from simultaneously jumping around the exterior wall of the building to the spawn point to attack the flag carrier.</p><p>Just because you choose to call a certain point "the respawn area" and say players should not be allowed to return to it, doesnt make it so.  There is a delay upon death before players respawn, even if their entire raid is defending that point it is still legitimately possible to kill them all and retake the flag.</p><p>You cannot compare the regular use of in game movement to a blatent exploit of a coding bug.</p>

InstaCler
03-13-2010, 02:16 AM
<p><cite>Haliken wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>MadHatter1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Basically what I'm reading from all the complaints is, "....boohoohooo...I'm incapable of adapting and modifying my concept of what Battlegrounds should and should not be."  "I'm also incapable of overcoming certain unforseen obstacles."  If this is the case, then you probably shouldn't be pvp'ing.  Battlegrounds are what they are...accept it.  You know what people are capable of...learn / figure out how to do it yourself.</p></blockquote><p>The 6v6 and 12v12 Battlegrounds are specifically intended to not allow people to return to the respawn areas after leaving them. That's why there is no obvious staircase or ramp or walkway at equal level to get back up with ease.</p><p>So, the Battlegrounds "should not be" allowing people to return to the respawn areas because they were not intended to become accessible again after leaving them.</p><p>Saying that doing so is a legitimate tactic because you CAN do it is relative to the claims about duplicating items by exploiting the Battlegrounds process. People came to the conclusion that because you can, you should. That's NOT how it's meant to be and, because of that, it's the basis on which people are deciding for themselves that reaching what should be an inaccessible location is a reasonable tactic.</p></blockquote><p>Yep, it's clear from the geometry design that the designers did not foresee the use of jump boots and that these boots allow gameplay/strategy that goes against the intent of the design.</p><p>I'm not able to read the minds of the designers, but being a game designer myself, I would guess that requiring all players to purchase some obscure clicky item in order to compete is at odds with the BG design philosophy.  The price/availability of said item is completely irrelevant. </p><p>Unlike open world PvP, Battlegrounds isn't about figuring out creative uses of clicky items.  It's about instant action on a relatively level playing field (individual PvP skill, stat gear/ability upgrades, and organization as the 3 variables) for anyone who wishes to play.  It is not a system that is intended to force people to visit the forums or have a lot of match experience in order to gain the knowledge to compete at a basic level.   Goals and how to achieve them (e.g., getting the flag back) should be intuitive, not dependent on knowing about stupid item tricks. </p><p>I fully expect those saying "QQ" now to do a bit of it themselves fairly soon when the inevitable changes happen.</p>

Taldier
03-13-2010, 02:25 AM
<p><cite>InstaCleric wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yep, it's clear from the geometry design that the designers did not foresee the use of jump boots and that these boots allow gameplay/strategy that goes against the intent of the design.</p><p>I'm not able to read the minds of the designers, but being a game designer myself, I would guess that requiring all players to purchase some obscure clicky item in order to compete is at odds with the BG design philosophy.  The price/availability of said item is completely irrelevant. </p><p>Unlike open world PvP, Battlegrounds isn't about figuring out creative uses of clicky items.  It's about instant action on a relatively level playing field (individual PvP skill, stat gear/ability upgrades, and organization as the 3 variables) for anyone who wishes to play.  It is not a system that is intended to force people to visit the forums or have a lot of match experience in order to gain the knowledge to compete at a basic level.   Goals and how to achieve them (e.g., getting the flag back) should be intuitive, not dependent on knowing about stupid item tricks. </p><p>I fully expect those saying "QQ" now to do a bit of it themselves fairly soon when the inevitable changes happen.</p></blockquote><p>Just because it is a dumbed down version of pvp doesnt mean it is an fps.  Gear makes a difference, bringing potions with you makes a difference, and yes all those "obscure" clicky items make a difference. </p><p>I highly doubt that in the process of designing a battleground for player combat that the devs "did not foresee" the use of an item they created a few years ago and has not left the bags and daily use of every single pvper since that date.</p><p>Should you also not be forced to bring cure potions with you?  All those players using totems and potions are op! they know how the game works!</p><p>And those tinkerers using health and mana stones...I mean they like totally even went through the trouble of leveling up a skill.  I was just playing an mmorpg...I didnt expect anything about leveling up skills.</p><p>And having knowledge of basic game mechanics?  You mean I cant just run into a group of players mashing those pretty colored buttons on my hotbar thingy while wearing this awesome looking gear I bought off the status merchant?</p>

MadHatter1
03-13-2010, 03:00 AM
<p>There's always people who are going to cry about something.  It's like someone said earlier...go spend 5 gold (or w/e) for a pair of jumpy boots, and voila...the playing field is even.  If you choose not to do that, then so be it...but give us a break and take your sob stories elsewhere.</p><p>Also, unless you are a dev working for SOE and specifically on EQ2, then don't presume to know what the dev team intended with the terrain in BG's.  For all you know, they intended for us to fly around while commencing arial bombings...we just haven't figured out how to do it yet.</p><p>/sarcasm off</p>

Harbringer Doom
03-13-2010, 03:07 AM
<p><cite>MadHatter1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>For all you know, they intended for us to fly around while commencing arial bombings...we just haven't figured out how to do it yet.</blockquote><p>Speak for yourself.</p>

Toxek
03-13-2010, 10:38 AM
<p>well taking the flag to spawn is cheap and about as childish as it gets, its my toy and you cant touch it! ????? this is a game ment to be played by adults? send the kiddies back to WOW or where ever they came from and make the flag have weight so you cant jump up into spawn or the top of the building.</p><p>another option would be to make the jump boots have a neg affect on your stats harsh enough that a lvl 1 arrow would 1 shot you for wearing them?</p>

Captain Apple Darkberry
03-13-2010, 10:54 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>well taking the flag to spawn is cheap and about as childish as it gets, its my toy and you cant touch it! ????? this is a game ment to be played by adults? send the kiddies back to WOW or where ever they came from and make the flag have weight so you cant jump up into spawn or the top of the building.</p><p>another option would be to make the jump boots have a neg affect on your stats harsh enough that a lvl 1 arrow would 1 shot you for wearing them?</p></blockquote><p>Seriously?  You really need the devs to code in changes to easily obtainable/understandable/usable items so that you can have a chance of just mashing buttons to win?  ...and you call others childish?</p><p>The thought process of an "red" server player is not hard to grasp...in many ways it is the same as the difference between the person on the blue server wondering why the priest who keeps running out of mana is using summoned food/drink and has no power totem running while they, and others in the group, have had the fore thought (and consideration) to come prepared.  Jump boots to some may seem an "obscure clicky item", but that is due to you leveling on a blue server...same with see invisi/stealth totems.  How often have you bought those on a blue server just to level up from 1 - 90?  The things you see going on are not "item exploits"...you are just behind the curve.  ...and they are not "mechanics exploits" either.  This is the same as a tank backing himself into a corner to nullify an AI mobs kickbacks, or using the game geometry in similar ways in PvE.  The difference is that you are sooooooooo used to the "mobs" not thinking, and reacting to your plans that when you are faced with a thinking opponent all you can do is QQ cheater!!</p><p>Sure...the first time that someone uses jump boots to get somewhere you can't...and you don't have any on you...then it is frustrating, but try something new...try thinking...and learning.  I works.</p>

BMonkeeus
03-13-2010, 10:57 AM
The QQ is strong in this one.

Katanalla
03-13-2010, 11:30 AM
<p><img src="http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg285/Katanallama/EQ2_000540.jpg" /></p><p>I R king of the Red Base.</p>

Taldier
03-13-2010, 01:45 PM
<p>^^^ There lol</p><p>He isnt at the respawn point.  So what is the new argument now.</p>

rareyrare
03-15-2010, 10:19 AM
<p>People who compare using jump boots to get on top of structures in Ganak, to the exploit of holding relic in your revive in Gears or the transmute exploit are just being ridiculous. Anyone can get to these people in Ganak. Just buy some [Removed for Content] boots already!</p>

Aurel
03-15-2010, 11:27 AM
<p><cite>bryan4171 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Well if you don't like the fact we have a 3d environment i hear Ultima Online is still running!!</p></blockquote><p>*startlecough*</p><p>Hey!  Ultima Online had a pseudo-3D, isometric environment.  It had 3D features!  I could teleport on top of the roof of the bank to hide from people until they teleported up, too.  *sniffle*</p><p>And UO tried to become hip and added a new graphics option for playing in.  They have some 3D-esque graphics now.  They look awful, but hey...</p>