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View Full Version : WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO FIX WARLOCKS?


Pvpmedic
03-05-2010, 04:22 AM
<p>When are you going to fix the fact that warlocks own everyone rothgar? There is no reason for a warlock to be able to one shot people with 25k HP.</p>

Widjet
03-05-2010, 04:37 AM
<p>They don't need to fix warlocks specifically.. All they need to do is do something like they did in EQ1 when Wizards were one shot manaburning people. Just make it so one spell can only do 75% max health of their target. Simple fix... and will avoid all this drama against one shotting.</p>

Pvpmedic
03-05-2010, 04:52 AM
<p>I dont mind people one shoting me just not every 2 seconds. I shouldnt get one shot revive then get one shot again by the same person. It was perfect in the last expantion they occationaly one shot people but its all fed up right now thye can one shot people every 2 seconds its retarted imo. PvP is ruined in this game, ill just raid pve here and pvp on Age of Conan tbh.</p>

Schondarr
03-18-2010, 06:56 AM
<p>I agree...and more!</p><p>I JUST had a match in Klack..</p><p>Warlock one or two shots me the entire match..</p><p>Any chance I get, I TRY to try and pick him off..</p><p>I (Guardian) charge up...</p><p>Use ALL of my combat arts...</p><p>and MAYBE get him down to 10% hp..</p><p>before once again Im killed.</p><p>NO [email protected]#$% fun there!</p><p>Time and time again..</p><p>Its THAT HARD for a tank to kill a squishy,</p><p>but uber easy for a squishy to nuke a tank??</p><p>THAT ruins it... AND the second I realize a match is way out of balance do to poorly/ horribly matched groups..</p><p>I sit it out rather than run back to be insta shotted over and over..Yay! Wheee!! LOADS of fun dying constantly with NO chance!</p><p>Balanced?? lol JOKE of the century!</p><p>MAYBE in some other weird parallel dimension!</p><p>They should have a concede/surrender/ defeat button..</p><p>So you can jump quickly ahead to the inevitable loss and not waste 10 minutes of your time getting constantly and pointlessly slaughtered.</p>

BlueEternal
03-18-2010, 07:02 AM
<p>I really don't understand that wall of rage. You got him to 10% a couple times but complain about being one shotted? You're a guardian, you don't have the dps capabilities of a warlock. Take a step back and realize what your class is meant to do before you come crying on the boards. Fix the format of your post too..ugh.</p>

Muraazi
03-18-2010, 07:49 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I really don't understand that wall of rage. You got him to 10% a couple times but complain about being one shotted? You're a guardian, you don't have the dps capabilities of a warlock. <strong><em><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Take a step back and realize what your class is meant to do </span></em></strong>before you come crying on the boards. Fix the format of your post too..ugh.</p></blockquote><p>Being 1 shot kind of makes it hard for guardians to do that job you are talking about doesn't it?</p>

Cerec
03-18-2010, 07:53 AM
<p>lol ....and, besides that, in what world should a warlock be able to survive a fully charged guardian in close combat?</p>

BMonkeeus
03-18-2010, 09:41 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I really don't understand that wall of rage. You got him to 10% a couple times but complain about being one shotted? You're a guardian, you don't have the dps capabilities of a warlock. Take a step back and realize what your class is meant to do before you come crying on the boards. Fix the format of your post too..ugh.</p></blockquote><p>BWA! Thanks for the funnah.</p>

Shankapotomus
03-18-2010, 11:07 AM
<p>Heres the thing boys and girls.</p><p>Should warlocks/wizards be able to one shot people? Yes</p><p>Should they be able to do it with more than 1 spell, almost everytime they cast those spells, or have knockbacks and such making it impossible to defend against a second attack? No</p><p>If you take there one shot-ability away, your vasily decreasing their effectiveness, not just fixing a problem. It should happen way less often IMO. I have no problem getting killed by a mage, except when I have my HOTs up and first spell cast takes me out without any real resistance (just give me a chance).</p><p>Hes how it should play out (IMO), come up against a lock/wiz they should hit hard, but be easy to take down. If you mess around too long and can't get the job done, you may get one shotted (I know, not technicaly a one shot since you already have taken DmG). I'm sorry, same with Conjs and all other mages, but not hit as hard considering they have other options like meses, pets, life stealing, and stuns and stifles.</p><p>But to not even give me a chance to play my character, win or lose, is wrong.</p>

Wytie
03-18-2010, 11:36 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I dont mind people one shoting me just not every 2 seconds. I shouldnt get one shot revive then get one shot again by the same person. It was perfect in the last expantion they occationaly one shot people but its all fed up right now thye can one shot people every 2 seconds its retarted imo. PvP is ruined in this game, ill just raid pve here and pvp on Age of Conan tbh.</p></blockquote><p>Woah sir. Dont be a hater <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Wytie
03-18-2010, 11:52 AM
<p>Id like to also point out a Warlock isnt going to own you all by himself most times. They need help just like any other dps class, and with the right support of course they are going to shine.</p><p>The big problem is, why is raid gear so effective in BG's?</p><p>Who needs toughness when I can have stacked support and tons of high dps raid gear and just blow through the other team?</p><p>This is what people are seeing and going to see, super stacked mage groups with tons of high dps raid gear, it doesnt matter how much toughness you have, you are still going to melt.</p><p>If a warlock is 1 shotting you with 25k hp its not a normal thing, I dont do it, in fact Iv never done it, never seen it, so its hardly the norm. Wizzy on the other hand its just an everyday thing.</p>

Grumble69
03-18-2010, 12:17 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Id like to also point out a Warlock isnt going to own you all by himself most times. They need help just like any other dps class, and with the right support of course they are going to shine.</p></blockquote><p>That's definitely the issue.  If my brig catches a warlock from the herd (3 grp BG), I make short work of him (as it should be).  My worst experiences are in Gears.  If you get a group holed up in a choke point, it can be just about impossible to dig them out.  High inherent offense + supporting cast + high defense from the tunnel = bad experience.</p><p>IMO, warlocks don't need to be nerfed per se.  They just need to change the game mechanics of Gears.  After a team has the relic for 45-60sec, I'd like to see it reset back to the center.  If you can get them pulled out into the open, nature can take it's course.  ...especially if the matchmaker can be tweaked to form better groups.</p>

Shankapotomus
03-18-2010, 12:40 PM
<p>What hes really referring to is how the resist system is broken guys.</p><p>And they are working on it and supposed to be up in a week or so ( I believe).</p><p>But my prior post still stands. And I believe this new resist system will put that into effect considering you wont outright resist everything, but will resist parts. This allows the mages to still put out constant damage, but it's not going to let them hit all out every spell. But every once in a while they will, allowing them to still be massively effective and not nerf them.</p><p>That's what I've got out of the new resist system this far, hope it's right.</p>

Harbringer Doom
03-18-2010, 12:42 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The big problem is, why is raid gear so effective in BG's?</p></blockquote><p>Why indeed. </p><p>The effectiveness of "toughness" against a fully raid geared and red adorned group appears to be somewhat of a joke.</p><p>I'd love to see an equally stacked class match betwen a fully raid geared, red adorned group and a fully Battleground PvP geared white-adorned group.</p><p>I may be wrong, because the decision seemed to change about a bajillion times (and I gave up trying to follow the explanation) but I thought a line was being drawn between the effectiveness of PvP gear in PVE and vice versa.</p><p>Mission accomplished for PvP gear, as the PvP gear has a boat-load of effects in which you "must be engaged in PvP" for them to be operating, making them less than useful in PVE.  On the flip side, PVE gear (with the red adorns) makes one much stronger, provides higher DPS, more health, better heals, better taunts and a thousand other spell and combat art related advantages that appear to provide a huge advantage (even in Battlegrounds) quickly negating any advantage the available amount of "toughness" might provide.</p><p>I haven't seen any of the high end raid gear, but from the low end pieces I have seen dropping thus far, I'd be willing to wager that if you compare high end raid gear to "high end" Battleground merchant gear, the "71 toughness" or whatever the best toughness you can get, isn't going to come close to matching the benefits of wearing the raid piece.</p><p>If one is gearing up for Battlegrounds, and hypothetically, they have a bag full of raid gear and Battleground merchant gear, is it ever to be to their advantage to choose the BG gear?</p><p>I don't have an answer, I raid a few nights a week and I Battleground a few nights a week.  I'd like to think I don't have a horse in this race.  But if Battlegrounds is really being advertised as "its own thing" not your normal PvP experience, and certainly not a PvE experience, maybe the trigger effects of raid gear, and the red adornments need to be flagged "as long as your NOT engaged in PvP".</p><p>Don't get me wrong, I think the BG gear is a lot easier to get than raid gear, I'm not saying they should be equal in effectiveness, but at the same time, I don't think it makes sense for the trend to be that you have to focus on raiding to be most effective in Battlegrounds.</p>

Gylen9
03-18-2010, 12:49 PM
<p>Linking info from the PVP forum:</p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=474221">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=474221</a></p><p>timetravelling  Developer</p><p>Based on the old formulas, extremely high resists (if capped) would give players a 75% chance to avoid a spell AND a 75% reduction in the damage when it landed. To offset these, scaling mults were put in to reduce the outright resist and damage reduction components gained from those stats. When we updated the formulas to be more balanced, those mults were still hidden in the code reducing the now-more-normal resist rates, causing them to be extremely low.</p><p>At level 70+, spell avoidance chance was being multipled by 0.6 (reducing your overall chance to avoid by 40%) and spell resists were being multiplied by 0.65 (reducing the damage reduction applied to spell damage by 35%). This has been contributing to the ... ah ... very high combat effectiveness of spell-damage based classes. We have removed all of these mults internally.</p><p>Once internal testing has been completed, we plan on pushing these changes to Test-copy (and temporarily flagging it as PvP). Once that happens, we'll update the thread here and ask for y'all to jump over there and help us test the crap out of the changes. We'll leave it up there for at least a week or two to give time for balance tweaks and such before considering a push to Live.</p><p>This will affect both BGs and Open PvP equally. PvP combat in general uses the same rules whether it's Open or a battleground.</p><p>I should have clarified as well that these changes ONLY affect PvP, and should have no affect on PvE combat.</p>

Harbringer Doom
03-18-2010, 12:50 PM
<p><cite>Grumble69 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Id like to also point out a Warlock isnt going to own you all by himself most times. They need help just like any other dps class, and with the right support of course they are going to shine.</p></blockquote><p>That's definitely the issue.  If my brig catches a warlock from the herd (3 grp BG), I make short work of him (as it should be).  My worst experiences are in Gears.  If you get a group holed up in a choke point, it can be just about impossible to dig them out.  High inherent offense + supporting cast + high defense from the tunnel = bad experience.</p><p>IMO, warlocks don't need to be nerfed per se.  They just need to change the game mechanics of Gears.  After a team has the relic for 45-60sec, I'd like to see it reset back to the center.  If you can get them pulled out into the open, nature can take it's course.  ...especially if the matchmaker can be tweaked to form better groups.</p></blockquote><p>Actually, it might be interesting if they changed the gear damage mechanics so that in the most optimal spots for holing up (i.e. anywhere down your own hallway) the gear does a lot more damage, but in the least optimal spots for holing up (i.e. the opponants' hallway, or the middle of the room) the gear does less damage. </p><p>Maybe even a spot in the very middle of the room where, if the gear holder is standing, it does no damage.   Because that is a dumb (and much less defensible) place to stand.</p>

Wytie
03-18-2010, 12:56 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The big problem is, why is raid gear so effective in BG's?</p></blockquote><p>Why indeed. </p><p>The effectiveness of "toughness" against a fully raid geared and red adorned group appears to be somewhat of a joke.</p><p>I'd love to see an equally stacked class match betwen a fully raid geared, red adorned group and a fully Battleground PvP geared white-adorned group.</p><p>I may be wrong, because the decision seemed to change about a bajillion times (and I gave up trying to follow the explanation) but I thought a line was being drawn between the effectiveness of PvP gear in PVE and vice versa.</p><p>Mission accomplished for PvP gear, as the PvP gear has a boat-load of effects in which you "must be engaged in PvP" for them to be operating, making them less than useful in PVE.  On the flip side, PVE gear (with the red adorns) makes one much stronger, provides higher DPS, more health, better heals, better taunts and a thousand other spell and combat art related advantages that appear to provide a huge advantage (even in Battlegrounds) quickly negating any advantage the available amount of "toughness" might provide.</p><p>I haven't seen any of the high end raid gear, but from the low end pieces I have seen dropping thus far, I'd be willing to wager that if you compare high end raid gear to "high end" Battleground merchant gear, the "71 toughness" or whatever the best toughness you can get, isn't going to come close to matching the benefits of wearing the raid piece.</p><p>If one is gearing up for Battlegrounds, and hypothetically, they have a bag full of raid gear and Battleground merchant gear, is it ever to be to their advantage to choose the BG gear?</p><p>I don't have an answer, I raid a few nights a week and I Battleground a few nights a week.  I'd like to think I don't have a horse in this race.  But if Battlegrounds is really being advertised as "its own thing" not your normal PvP experience, and certainly not a PvE experience, maybe the trigger effects of raid gear, and the red adornments need to be flagged "as long as your NOT engaged in PvP".</p><p>Don't get me wrong, I think the BG gear is a lot easier to get than raid gear, I'm not saying they should be equal in effectiveness, but at the same time, I don't think it makes sense for the trend to be that you have to focus on raiding to be most effective in Battlegrounds.</p></blockquote><p>Great post, you should put this in your own thread, it might get the attention it deserves.</p>

Hellswrath
03-18-2010, 01:03 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Id like to also point out a Warlock isnt going to own you all by himself most times. They need help just like any other dps class, and with the right support of course they are going to shine.</p><p>If a warlock is 1 shotting you with 25k hp its not a normal thing, I dont do it, in fact Iv never done it, never seen it, so its hardly the norm. Wizzy on the other hand its just an everyday thing.</p></blockquote><p>Rather accurate.  If someone is decently geared and at least has their MC BG gear on, they stand a decent chance against me if they know how to play their class in BG.  They only people I've ever one shot are those who weren't wearing any toughness gear when Freehand Sorcery and Plaguebringer were up, and even then it didn't hit for much more than their health.  With 250 AA/right group setup/some decent DPS or BG gear, I could see it reaching much higher, but BG gear on the opposing side will mitigate this.</p><p>But plaguebringer is the hardest hitting DD we have until the SF AA ability, which requires you to get lucky off a previous spell cast (5% chance to enable the spell, so it's not often up).</p><p>Anyway, without good support, another team will quickly stun/stifle me so that I am useless and take me down.  Our survivability is aided by manashield, but that disappears in a flash and then we have no power.  We are only as good as the group with us.</p><p>By the same token, I spent an entire match in gears last night watching my entire team get locked up and nearly instakilled by a fury/conj/chanter combo.  I started casting before the damage started and was barely finished one spell before my entire team was down.  Fury's starnova was hitting for ~4800 alone.  Was I frustrated that we could do nothing?  Of course.  But they played better than we did as a team.  Not to mention they had three healers to our one.  I can't burn through even two decent healers without great support/teamwork.</p><p>I'll be playing the changes on test when they come out, but nerf damage too much and I don't know how anyone will walk out with a win against 3+ healers on an opposing team unless the teams are balanced.</p><p><cite>Grumble69 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>That's definitely the issue.  If my brig catches a warlock from the herd (3 grp BG), I make short work of him (as it should be).  My worst experiences are in Gears.  If you get a group holed up in a choke point, it can be just about impossible to dig them out.  High inherent offense + supporting cast + high defense from the tunnel = bad experience.</p><p>IMO, warlocks don't need to be nerfed per se.  They just need to change the game mechanics of Gears.  After a team has the relic for 45-60sec, I'd like to see it reset back to the center.  If you can get them pulled out into the open, nature can take it's course.  ...especially if the matchmaker can be tweaked to form better groups.</p></blockquote><p>QFT.  This is my biggest savior in gears.  We LOVE people running to defend in the tunnel.  I also love all the people that do so and then can't resist peeping their heads out for a couple seconds.  That's all that I and my caster ilk need to smack their entire team with a few good hits and support the rest of the group running in.  Will it oneshot you? Probably not even if you forgot your BG gear.</p><p>I think this will change some as well when they change the points so that it isn't worth as much to sit on the bauble vs. using it to get kills like was intended.</p>

Hellswrath
03-18-2010, 01:09 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>~A lot of good points that have already been quoted~</p></blockquote><p>Great post, you should put this in your own thread, it might get the attention it deserves.</p></blockquote><p>I'm a PvE'r and I thinkthis is a good point.  BG gear needs to be more worth wearing than raid gear in BG.</p>

Novusod
03-18-2010, 01:42 PM
<p>With resists broke and warlocks especially overpowered I will take a good warlock over a healer anyday even in a gears match. I have been in many matches where a team won without a healer because they had really powerful mages defeating a team with a healer. Maybe that is the way the the devs want it but to me that is not ballanced. There used to be skill in pvp where players had to learn how to assist and kill the healers and the tanks had to taunt to protect them. With mages just obliterating everyone there is no skill anymore. Players don't have to assist and taunting is kind of meaningless when the tank can be one shotted. Who ever has the most OP classes wins the match. Skill makes no difference and if it doesn't change I am done with eq2 forever.</p>

bluefish
03-18-2010, 02:10 PM
<p>I don't see what the problem is ..</p><p>If you try to play punch for punch with a warlock .. you will lose ..</p><p>use your head .. not brute force</p><p>If warlock is stunned... he can't cast</p><p>If a warlock is stifled... he cant cast</p><p>If a warlock is interupted ... guess what? he still cant cast ..</p><p>Game over!</p>

Armironhead
03-18-2010, 02:17 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Id like to also point out a Warlock isnt going to own you all by himself most times. They need help just like any other dps class, and with the right support of course they are going to shine.</p><p>The big problem is, why is raid gear so effective in BG's?</p><p>Who needs toughness when I can have stacked support and tons of high dps raid gear and just blow through the other team?</p><p>This is what people are seeing and going to see, super stacked mage groups with tons of high dps raid gear, it doesnt matter how much toughness you have, you are still going to melt.</p><p>If a warlock is 1 shotting you with 25k hp its not a normal thing, I dont do it, in fact Iv never done it, never seen it, so its hardly the norm. Wizzy on the other hand its just an everyday thing.</p></blockquote><p>toughness is broken and even if it worked properly all it would do would be to amplify class differences.  resists are also broken.  Soe claims it is working to fix resist issues as we speak.  As for warlocks they can presently kill most of the people most of the time if they are aware of them but paired with a tank they become impossible. The interesting thing is that cc's were nerfed but taunts apparently were left alone.  so if a warlock or any caster is in a grp with a tank, and gets attacked the attacker is immediately taunted on to the tank, which would be ok if while you were on the caster you could stun or stifle them, but the duration of the cc's are so short that the caster is free before you can break the taunt and retarget them, resulting in your death.</p>

Cigam
03-18-2010, 02:20 PM
<p>I have never done it... and havent seen it either... a warlock one shotting people that have 25k health... dont think so.   Maybe 25k damage to the whole group if we catch you together but one quick group cure and thats gone.</p>

Schondarr
03-18-2010, 03:18 PM
<p>Yes.. I realize Guardians suck at dps.. its not hard to read parser results.</p><p>SORRY to be so EMO.. but its super frustrating dying contiuously and not able to kill the "weakest" classes...</p><p>To more clearly emphasize, I get them down to 10%  MAYBE... more usually 30-40% AND THEN ONLY after using EVERY single ability...to only get killed anyhow.</p><p>SO.. I have not enough dps to kill a "squishy" caster..</p><p>OH..  BUT Im supposed to have this "GREAT defence" and mitigation as a Guardian, but still get 1 and 2 shotted by casters</p><p>AND ..one on one... owned by most every class in BG ..UNLESS they make a mistake, or are /afk, or have a lag spike, or drunk perhaps.</p><p>I havent seen ANY of this supposed UBER mitigation and "survivability" for a Guardian. the plat I spent to upgrade armour may as well been save for something else.. EVEN WITH BG armour... I may as well be naked.</p><p>I taunt peeps off my healers and dps and then I die..lather, rinse repeat.</p><p>I think its stupidly unbalanced.. but will grind thru the frustration of course just to get the fabled gear.</p><p>Sighh...WISH I woulda have rolled a SK years ago....</p>

swedago
03-18-2010, 10:33 PM
<p>Okay here is where I find it all pretty silly....</p><p>I have 15 pieces of BG gear (32% damage reduction).  I have 14-15k resists.  I have 17300 Health.  My STA is well over 1300.  WIS is about 800.</p><p>Should I still be getting 1 shotted by casters?  I hope not.  In the beginning I figured it was my lack of BG gear, but I almost have every piece you can get. </p><p>This issue needs to be fixed before you end up with nothing but casters in the BGs lol.</p>

Cigam
03-19-2010, 08:35 AM
<p>BTW they already know there is a problem with the resist system and are making changes as we speak so they can throw it on test. </p>

Xeirus
03-19-2010, 01:49 PM
<p>Fix rangers too then beacuse I get killed by them plenty and easily I might add more range, can 1 hit or easily kill me 1-3 shots (CA's cast faster then spells) can run and shoot you at the same time, wear chain o0.  Then fix melee dmg so I can acutally stand there when im getting beat on and do something. </p><p>Love it when a Brig/Swash gets to you and then your locked into doing nothing and dead. Scale down melee damage I think thats fair. Put the fighter revamp back in so tanks actually tank and taunt and absorb damage.</p><p>Lets be fair when you call for fixes for everyone!</p>

PeaSy1
03-19-2010, 02:27 PM
Psh when peeps get holed up i just throw on chilling invigoration and divine guidance run in and start beating people with my hammer!!

Elanjar
03-19-2010, 04:49 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Heres the thing boys and girls.</p><p>Should warlocks/wizards be able to one shot people? Yes</p><p>Should they be able to do it with more than 1 spell, almost everytime they cast those spells, or have knockbacks and such making it impossible to defend against a second attack? No</p></blockquote><p>I dont have a problem with a couple of warlock/wizard/someopmage spells 1 shotting or close to 1 shotting me. What I do have a problem with is mage survivability.</p><p>If they have the ability to 1 shot me, then me double attacking them 3 times while also using my combat arts should do more than 30% damage to them. Tbh it should kill them. (and no they aren't using manashield)</p>

Blaidd
03-20-2010, 09:14 AM
<p>I have to laugh at this. It's like Rock, Paper, Scissors where there is someone who is overpowered to another.</p><p>My warlock deals great damage in pvp I agree (its rare I 1 shot people and then its not a true 1 shot but casting prebuffs and then my nuke to enhance its damage) but there are others out there that kill me easily.</p><p>Last night in Gears I was mezzed by an Illy as she ran past (didnt even stop to cast) and at that point I was pretty much dead. I could do nothing until she had nuked me down. Bards I find are generally nasty and have more trouble with them than other scouts.</p><p>Sorcs have an advantage in places where you have good line of sight and they have time to start casting before you reach them, close quarters they are in trouble unless they have a good healer as support.</p><p>Basically you need to learn a tactic that works for you (tanks tend to pop some invulnerability skill and charge stunning etc) and use that. I have managed on my swashy to destroy locks on numerous occasions so they arent the all powerful class you seem to believe.</p>

Nulgara
03-21-2010, 01:08 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I don't see what the problem is ..</p><p>If you try to play punch for punch with a warlock .. you will lose ..</p><p>use your head .. not brute force</p><p>If warlock is stunned... he can't cast</p><p>If a warlock is stifled... he cant cast</p><p>If a warlock is interupted ... guess what? he still cant cast ..</p><p>Game over!</p></blockquote><p>This has to be about the dumbest thing ive ever read.</p><p>lets analyze that first statement there buddy.</p><p>punch for punch with a warlock.. and you think the warlock shoudl win?  if the warlock sees me coming and roots me then casts his dmg spells yeah im fine with being killed in 2 or 3 hits.. cause i cant get in his face. but your trying to tell me if im wielding a 4 foot lomng sword and double smacking him in the chest with it and spamming the crap out of ca's in between those double attacks. are you seriously trying to tell me that warlock shoudl win the fight.</p><p>NO they shoudlnt ... EVER. they are the squishiest class in the game for a reason. huge cannon from range.. NOTHING toe-to-toe is what they are supposed to be. yeah i play an sk in bg's the only time i'm not insta-dead from warlock when im in his face is if he doesnt have me targeted. i have come up on solo locks many times in smugglers for instance. he doesnt see me coming i fly up on him drop down in his face slam him to knock him down double attack hits does NOTHING TO HIM. and this happens nonstop everytime i come up on a warlock. i spam every ca i have guess what still nothing. are you gonna tell me next that his manashield isnt gone after ive done 55k dmg to him already cause i even burned harm touch and now everything i have is on cooldown. and now guess what i cant knockhimdown again so now he can cast on me and is still at 100% hp btw with no support whatsoever. and walla im toe-to-toe with a lock and he wins in 1 or two casts EVERYTIME.</p><p>get a clue of what the combat relationships between classes shoudl be cause no mage wearing frikin cloth armor shoudl ever be able to stand toe-to-toe with a tank and live through it.</p>

Orthureon
03-21-2010, 01:30 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I don't see what the problem is ..</p><p>If you try to play punch for punch with a warlock .. you will lose ..</p><p>use your head .. not brute force</p><p>If warlock is stunned... he can't cast</p><p>If a warlock is stifled... he cant cast</p><p>If a warlock is interupted ... guess what? he still cant cast ..</p><p>Game over!</p></blockquote><p>This has to be about the dumbest thing ive ever read.</p><p>lets analyze that first statement there buddy.</p><p>punch for punch with a warlock.. and you think the warlock shoudl win?  if the warlock sees me coming and roots me then casts his dmg spells yeah im fine with being killed in 2 or 3 hits.. cause i cant get in his face. but your trying to tell me if im wielding a 4 foot lomng sword and double smacking him in the chest with it and spamming the crap out of ca's in between those double attacks. are you seriously trying to tell me that warlock shoudl win the fight.</p><p>NO they shoudlnt ... EVER. they are the squishiest class in the game for a reason. huge cannon from range.. NOTHING toe-to-toe is what they are supposed to be. yeah i play an sk in bg's the only time i'm not insta-dead from warlock when im in his face is if he doesnt have me targeted. i have come up on solo locks many times in smugglers for instance. he doesnt see me coming i fly up on him drop down in his face slam him to knock him down double attack hits does NOTHING TO HIM. and this happens nonstop everytime i come up on a warlock. i spam every ca i have guess what still nothing. are you gonna tell me next that his manashield isnt gone after ive done 55k dmg to him already cause i even burned harm touch and now everything i have is on cooldown. and now guess what i cant knockhimdown again so now he can cast on me and is still at 100% hp btw with no support whatsoever. and walla im toe-to-toe with a lock and he wins in 1 or two casts EVERYTIME.</p><p>get a clue of what the combat relationships between classes shoudl be cause no mage wearing frikin cloth armor shoudl ever be able to stand toe-to-toe with a tank and live through it.</p></blockquote><p>Don't feel bad, I can't kill a good lock or wizard with all of my temps running 90% of the time. They simply PEW, PEW, PEW, and I die, or in most cases PEW, PEW. Well against wizards it is PEW mostly... lol. I can put out cosiderable DPS aswell (too much for a tank imo) but I can barely ever kill a lock or wizzy. Atleast i can absorb conjies EB with my DA up, since EB has been another "one shot" hot topic. We will all just have to deal with the ownage until SOE pushes that fix through. Hopefully both toughness and resists are broken, because if it is simply resists I don't think it will make much of a difference.</p>

Raznor2
03-21-2010, 08:27 PM
<p>There's a few things to consider when looking at warlocks.  The first is manashield.  Manashield causes you to damage a sorcerers manapool at a rate of 2 points of mana for every three points of damage done.  So, if the warlock has a manapool of 20k you have to do 30k worth of damage before you get to his actual hp. Add in power proccing gear and warlocks are capable of having this up for a full 30 seconds every minute and 30 seconds.  However, it can be dispelled.  The second thing is focused casting.  It is an instant cast, doubles the casting and recovery speeds , roots the caster and makes him immune to interrupts. </p><p>Neither of these are terribly unbalanced, manashield can be dispelled.  You can mez and get range on a warlock using focused casting for 15 seconds or without manashield you can burn a warlock down fairly fast anyways.  However, coupled with how high magic damage is at the moment, it's a bit much, especially when they can do all of the above, snare port and nuke people down in a couple spells. </p><p>Raznor</p>

Zabom
03-21-2010, 09:52 PM
<p>Another thing to keep in mind is dispursion gear. The soulshattering band and robe of dark power have absorbed many killing blows for me. </p><p>I think the real imballance here, is not class based, but instead gear and AA  based. I am a mid level raid geared wizzy with the BG robe. As such, I have been known to 1 shot tanks with 20k ice comets. On the other hand, I went up against a brig who was occupied by our tank, and unloaded my entire raid casting lineup without getting him below 50%. That is the diference BG and high end raid gear makes.</p><p>As far as warlocks go, the secret to killing them is easy. Have a ranger pwn him or sneak up behind him then keep him stunned. If the other team has a warlock, keep in mind that if any one person presents themselves as a an easy target, the encounter effects hurt everyone. every match requires diferent tactics, and if you want to win you need to discover those tactics not just say "they have a warlock let's give up"</p>

Armawk
03-21-2010, 10:06 PM
<p>I fully support the return of warlocks to proper glass cannon status (or in their case more like glass cluster bomb). Not that there shouldnt be magical protections with high cost and brief duration, manashield for example is very nicely balanced, but no damned way a mage should be physically tanking anything while still dishing out damage, its ludicrous.</p>

Ralpmet
03-21-2010, 10:56 PM
<p>It's just resists guys. You'll see those 1 shotting spells go down considerably when resists are fixed.</p><p>Pre-Expansion the highest hit I can remember on me in pvp was like, MAYBE 8k from an Ice comet, that still can double attack and 1 shot me, but in a 1on1 it wasn't nearly enough to kill me before i could heal.</p>

Armawk
03-21-2010, 11:44 PM
<p><cite>Ralpmet wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It's just resists guys. You'll see those 1 shotting spells go down considerably when resists are fixed.</p><p>Pre-Expansion the highest hit I can remember on me in pvp was like, MAYBE 8k from an Ice comet, that still can double attack and 1 shot me, but in a 1on1 it wasn't nearly enough to kill me before i could heal.</p></blockquote><p>The resist fix will stop warlocks tanking like shadowknight/templar combos??</p>

mcavellero
03-21-2010, 11:59 PM
<p>Warlocks do not need to be nerfed..people just need to learn how to use the skills/abilities they have  I've played my warlock alt many times and have been in groups where I own and get owned by all different classes.  Tanks, mages, and scouts alike have completely disabled my warlock via stifles, stuns, knockbacks etc...  Many of your spells and combat arts have special effects attached to them..if you use them properly, youll be more effective.  Not everything is about go in and KIll like in PVE..welcome to PVP, you are going against live players, youre going to have to think...</p><p>Groups that get owned by warlocks are ones that:  *have pretty bad gear  *uncoordinated *matching system gives them 5 tanks or undercuts player #s  *rush in without thinking(see 4th paragragh)</p><p>Do you know how many times an assa has shadowstepped, a ranger has taken my alt our with one shot (has greater range than me), an enchanter keeps my stun/stifle locked, out as the first line of action?  How tanks heal themsleves back up to 100% after mutiple times?  How scouts can keep me stun lock while meleeing me down?  Or how tanks do mroe dps in Smugglers den or cant go down because of red adornments?  Or when bards buff their groups/group has decent gear and my spells do do 200-300 damage?  Do I complain?  No..because they are playing the strengths of their class.</p><p>I find it funny when I see groups that get burned down do the same mistake over and over..lets all rush out together and let the group dot me on our way there. </p><p>And then there are those groups who stay seperate and strategically send their scouts/enchanters against the high dpser(warlock, wiz, conj, swash, assa, brig etc..)-those groups I am pretty much worthless .</p>

Raznor2
03-22-2010, 01:10 AM
<p><cite>shaunfletcher wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ralpmet wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It's just resists guys. You'll see those 1 shotting spells go down considerably when resists are fixed.</p><p>Pre-Expansion the highest hit I can remember on me in pvp was like, MAYBE 8k from an Ice comet, that still can double attack and 1 shot me, but in a 1on1 it wasn't nearly enough to kill me before i could heal.</p></blockquote><p>The resist fix will stop warlocks tanking like shadowknight/templar combos??</p></blockquote><p>If you ran into a warlock doing this odds are he had, manashiled, focus casting and possibly dispersion gear like Zabom and myself said.  Instead of, mezzing him for 30 seconds, or dragging or knocking down or dispelling the manashield you probably tried to melee through 30k worth of shielding while he rained ae's down on you.  Sometimes things are over powered and sometimes your doing it wrong.  You likely were in the latter. </p>

Notsovilepriest
03-22-2010, 01:59 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Warlocks do not need to be nerfed..people just need to learn how to use the skills/abilities they have  I've played my warlock alt many times and have been in groups where I own and get owned by all different classes.  Tanks, mages, and scouts alike have completely disabled my warlock via stifles, stuns, knockbacks etc...  Many of your spells and combat arts have special effects attached to them..if you use them properly, youll be more effective.  Not everything is about go in and KIll like in PVE..welcome to PVP, you are going against live players, youre going to have to think...</p></blockquote><p>Just lol if you think sorcs in general are just fine right now. The people that don't know how to spec and gear are squishy, those who do, can take nearly no melee damage without even popping manashield. If you don't think that is broken, I don't know what to tell you.</p>

Blazenhawk
03-22-2010, 02:01 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have to laugh at this. It's like Rock, Paper, Scissors where there is someone who is overpowered to another.</p><p>My warlock deals great damage in pvp I agree (its rare I 1 shot people and then its not a true 1 shot but casting prebuffs and then my nuke to enhance its damage) but there are others out there that kill me easily.</p><p>Last night in Gears I was mezzed by an Illy as she ran past (didnt even stop to cast) and at that point I was pretty much dead. I could do nothing until she had nuked me down. Bards I find are generally nasty and have more trouble with them than other scouts.</p><p>Sorcs have an advantage in places where you have good line of sight and they have time to start casting before you reach them, close quarters they are in trouble unless they have a good healer as support.</p><p>Basically you need to learn a tactic that works for you (tanks tend to pop some invulnerability skill and charge stunning etc) and use that. I have managed on my swashy to destroy locks on numerous occasions so they arent the all powerful class you seem to believe.</p></blockquote><p> Well said, as a ranger I pawn or get pawned, depending on who and where. I've got owned many times by warlocks! But to be honest, almost all classes have gotten me at one time or another (expect guardians, delete your toon! j/k)...   lol BGs ftw!</p>

Armawk
03-22-2010, 02:30 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If you ran into a warlock doing this odds are he had, manashiled, focus casting and possibly dispersion gear like Zabom and myself said.  Instead of, mezzing him for 30 seconds, or dragging or knocking down or dispelling the manashield you probably tried to melee through 30k worth of shielding while he rained ae's down on you.  Sometimes things are over powered and sometimes your doing it wrong.  You likely were in the latter. </p></blockquote><p>Lots of assumptions there. All wrong. i dont play melee classes and I know what manashield looks like. Note what i said about costs and limits.</p><p>SOME warlocks (and only some) have achieved insane levels of defense. This is true.</p>

Avirodar
03-22-2010, 11:58 AM
<p>Some people talk about it being "simple" to shut down a warlock. Such statements are fundamentally flawed because they talk as if there is no competent tank and healer present. Relying on the lack of a competent tank+healer is a recipe for failure.A competent tank will gain agro, not allowing direct targetting of the warlock by some or most of the attackers.A competent healer will render most stifles, stuns and KBs next to worthless with cures and heals.So who do you focus on now? The priest, the tank, or the warlock? Time is up, you're already dead.The damage available to not only warlocks, but many casters in general, completely dwarfs the damage available to melee class types. It is not balanced. It does need tuning. Making magical resists do more in BGs will be a good start to more balanced matchups.</p>

lollipop
03-22-2010, 01:08 PM
<p>no point in agrueing. Dev has said resists are broken and will be fixed. So this whole thread is a mute point. It will get fixed its being worked on now.</p>

Trawe
03-22-2010, 01:31 PM
<p>if you make casters "normal" in bg they will vanish. let´s face it : 90% of the people that choseto become a caster want to just stand there , click buttons and pwn left and right.this is how it is atm and this is why there are so many casters doing bg. in no way shoulda caster be able to one shot anyone imo. why? a caster said it himself in this thread :</p><p>they need people that defend them. up to now they are almost invincible if they are a bit protected.this plus them being able to oneshot people even if not supportet makes it imbalance. and about the surviveability lol. as if a scout is not going to be pwned when he has to run towards some casteror when he is going against a good tank with all his specials up. when he is taunted etc etc.they are just as squishy as the rest of the dd. most fights as a scout you are able to cast 2 CA ( which would beless time than a spell cast ). if a mage is taunted he can still nuke away the tank a scout can just run awaytry to re target someone and burst him before the taunt.maybe a ranger can do a little bit more due to his natural range fighting style but in general scouts are in the sameboat as mages. we don´t one shot people we do burst dps meaning lots of small hits. a mage that spends some timegetting his hp up would win every fight 1vs1 atm if he isnt really bad due to the extreme hitrate they got.</p><p>also i highly agree with the people saying bg armor needs to be way better for pvp than pve raid armor. period.</p>

Raznor2
03-22-2010, 01:41 PM
<p><cite>shaunfletcher wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If you ran into a warlock doing this odds are he had, manashiled, focus casting and possibly dispersion gear like Zabom and myself said.  Instead of, mezzing him for 30 seconds, or dragging or knocking down or dispelling the manashield you probably tried to melee through 30k worth of shielding while he rained ae's down on you.  Sometimes things are over powered and sometimes your doing it wrong.  You likely were in the latter. </p></blockquote><p>Lots of assumptions there. All wrong. <strong>i dont play melee classes</strong> and I know what manashield looks like. Note what i said about costs and limits.</p><p>SOME warlocks (and only some) have achieved insane levels of defense. This is true.</p></blockquote><p>But your signature lists a Berzerker, Swashbuckler and what looks like a brawler.</p>

Zabom
03-22-2010, 01:46 PM
<p>ok, heres an idea. take away the extra defence that was given to wizzys and walocks for BG, but in return give us back our full nuke potential. After all, they did reduce my damage output to 1/10th what I do in a regular raid and in return gave me maybe twice the defence. I would give up that extra defence to have a 100k ice comet in BG.</p>

Muraazi
03-22-2010, 03:28 PM
<p><cite>Zabom wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>ok, heres an idea. take away the extra defence that was given to wizzys and walocks for BG, but in return give us back our full nuke potential. After all, they did reduce my damage output to 1/10th what I do in a regular raid and in return gave me maybe twice the defence. I would give up that extra defence to have a 100k ice comet in BG.</p></blockquote><p>well, mom did tell me there was one born every minute....</p><p>100k ice comet lolz.</p>

Zabom
03-22-2010, 04:32 PM
<p>Are you saying you've never seen a 100k ice bolt? I guess you have never raided with a descent wizzy in a properly run raid. Might want to look at the parse thread in the EQ2 Flames wizard board. It might suprise you. I have hit 95k in a 6 man group without a troubie and only have t9 expert.</p>

Nulgara
03-22-2010, 04:53 PM
<p><cite>Zabom wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>ok, heres an idea. take away the extra defence that was given to wizzys and walocks for BG, but in return give us back our full nuke potential. After all, they did reduce my damage output to 1/10th what I do in a regular raid and in return gave me maybe twice the defence. I would give up that extra defence to have a 100k ice comet in BG.</p></blockquote><p>i'll agree to that as long as harm touch gets its full potential back too. oh and while we are at it how bout instead of all that jsut give my necros warlock pet the same defence boost you sorcs got and maybe jsut maybe it might make my pet worth a crap in bg's.</p>

Taldier
03-22-2010, 05:01 PM
<p><cite>Zabom wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Are you saying you've never seen a 100k ice bolt? I guess you have never raided with a descent wizzy in a properly run raid. Might want to look at the parse thread in the EQ2 Flames wizard board. It might suprise you. I have hit 95k in a 6 man group without a troubie and only have t9 expert.</p></blockquote><p>Im assuming the lulz is for the fact that you think 100k damage would be balanced in pvp.  Pve damage and pvp damage for all classes have always been calculated differently because...fairly obviously...players dont have millions of hp.</p>

Zabom
03-22-2010, 05:40 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Zabom wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Are you saying you've never seen a 100k ice bolt? I guess you have never raided with a descent wizzy in a properly run raid. Might want to look at the parse thread in the EQ2 Flames wizard board. It might suprise you. I have hit 95k in a 6 man group without a troubie and only have t9 expert.</p></blockquote><p>Im assuming the lulz is for the fact that you think 100k damage would be balanced in pvp.  Pve damage and pvp damage for all classes have always been calculated differently because...fairly obviously...players dont have millions of hp.</p></blockquote><p>Thank you. You have just made my point for me. Everyone is ok with nerfing the damage output of mages so other classes can survive our attacks, but everyone complains when they beef up our defence so we can survive theirs. It seems to me that it is not an imballance they are complaining about, but instead they are complaining because it is ballanced and they can't just walk through mages like they wern't there. If you are having trouble killing mages, why not try changing your tactics or improving your gear instead of crying foul because you died a couple times. I will also point this out. Look at the kills screen at the end of your BGs. What you will see is that mage kills are on average between 15- 25 SKs and zerker on the other hand are usually between 28 to 35.</p>

Taldier
03-22-2010, 05:54 PM
<p><cite>Zabom wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Zabom wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Are you saying you've never seen a 100k ice bolt? I guess you have never raided with a descent wizzy in a properly run raid. Might want to look at the parse thread in the EQ2 Flames wizard board. It might suprise you. I have hit 95k in a 6 man group without a troubie and only have t9 expert.</p></blockquote><p>Im assuming the lulz is for the fact that you think 100k damage would be balanced in pvp.  Pve damage and pvp damage for all classes have always been calculated differently because...fairly obviously...players dont have millions of hp.</p></blockquote><p>Thank you. You have just made my point for me. Everyone is ok with nerfing the damage output of mages so other classes can survive our attacks, but everyone complains when they beef up our defence so we can survive theirs. It seems to me that it is not an imballance they are complaining about, but instead they are complaining because it is ballanced and they can't just walk through mages like they wern't there. If you are having trouble killing mages, why not try changing your tactics or improving your gear instead of crying foul because you died a couple times. I will also point this out. Look at the kills screen at the end of your BGs. What you will see is that mage kills are on average between 15- 25 SKs and zerker on the other hand are usually between 28 to 35.</p></blockquote><p>How is any of that related to what I said?  All damage is nerfed in pvp.  Have you ever seen an assy decap for anything worth mentioning in pvp compared to pve?</p><p>Its just that when they put in the most recent series of drastic changes they missed some multipliers from the old system on spells and somehow disabled the percentage limit on damage reduction skills.</p><p>This means that all mages are doing more damage than originally intended.  On top of it anyone with damage reduction...as in both sorcerers and fighters...are nearly immune to melee damage.</p><p>The kills screen on a bg is literally the most meaningless judgement of anything as it merely shows who stayed with the largest group of people for the most time.  One range attack for no damage on someone who dies and you get a "kill".  Obviously aoe classes are going to tag more people before they die than single target classes.</p>

Cigam
03-22-2010, 05:55 PM
<p>And Manashield does nothing for you in BG it seems... might absorb an attack or two.  Have a feeling it is normal PVE damage when you hit a wiz/warlock that has manashield on.  I know I have gone through a wizards manashield when he was at full power with one shot.  That shouldnt happen.  Also have had a few brigs go through mine in about 2 seconds solo.</p>

Wytie
03-22-2010, 06:00 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>And Manashield does nothing for you in BG it seems... might absorb an attack or two.  Have a feeling it is normal PVE damage when you hit a wiz/warlock that has manashield on.  I know I have gone through a wizards manashield when he was at full power with one shot.  That shouldnt happen.  Also have had a few brigs go through mine in about 2 seconds solo.</p></blockquote><p>This is exactly why I leave MS at home except for solo pvp ONLY. Its horrific.</p>

Zabom
03-22-2010, 06:20 PM
<p>I have killed every class in the game with both my wizzy and my lock. Likwize I have been killed by every class as well. I give you this example. 2 days ago I went head to head with a brig and was able to take him out before he got me out of the green. The next time I went up against that same brig, he kept me stunned and stifled the entire fight. I was dead he was at. 100%. That is balance. My kill do death ratio in bg is about even and I would classify myself as an average geared average ability player. Naturally you are going to go up against people who are better player then you......no wait. That can't be it.......no one could be better then you. It must be a balance issue.</p>

Nefariouss
03-22-2010, 06:22 PM
<p>While we are all crying about class balance how about removing the 1 second timer on Deadly Bane Warding. Thanks.</p>

Notsovilepriest
03-22-2010, 06:26 PM
<p><cite>Zabom wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>I have killed every class in the van with both my wizzy and my lock. Likwize I have been killed by every class as well. I give you this example. W days ago I went head to head with a brig and was able to take him out before he got me out of the green. The next time I went up against that same brig, he kept me stunned and stifled the entire fight. I was dead he was at. 100%. That is balance. My kill do death ratio in bg is about even and I would classify myself as an average geared average ability player. Naturally you are going to go up against people who are better player then you......no wait. That can't be it.......no one could be better then you. It must be a balance issue.</blockquote><p>Your AA spec sucks for BGs, If you speced right your KVD would increase tenfold</p>

Notsovilepriest
03-22-2010, 06:27 PM
<p><cite>Nefariouss wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>While we are all crying about class balance how about removing the 1 second timer on Deadly Bane Warding. Thanks.</p></blockquote><p>LOLOL, I can't tell if you are serious</p>

bks6721
03-22-2010, 06:27 PM
<p><cite>Muraazi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Zabom wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>ok, heres an idea. take away the extra defence that was given to wizzys and walocks for BG, but in return give us back our full nuke potential. After all, they did reduce my damage output to 1/10th what I do in a regular raid and in return gave me maybe twice the defence. I would give up that extra defence to have a 100k ice comet in BG.</p></blockquote><p>well, mom did tell me there was one born every minute....</p><p>100k ice comet lolz.</p></blockquote><p>those are VERY common in raids.  Mage dps is massively reduced in BG</p>

Taldier
03-22-2010, 06:30 PM
<p><cite>Zabom wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>I have killed every class in the van with both my wizzy and my lock. Likwize I have been killed by every class as well. I give you this example. W days ago I went head to head with a brig and was able to take him out before he got me out of the green. The next time I went up against that same brig, he kept me stunned and stifled the entire fight. I was dead he was at. 100%. That is balance. My kill do death ratio in bg is about even and I would classify myself as an average geared average ability player. Naturally you are going to go up against people who are better player then you......no wait. That can't be it.......no one could be better then you. It must be a balance issue.</blockquote><p>Not really sure who you are arguing about over what.  The devs have already pointed out the errors they made during the alterations to the code and are working to fix them.</p><p>If you are dying to melee classes I can only say that you are not specced in a certain way which is currently broken.  Damage reduction essentially negates melee damage except for high damage attacks like predator ca's.  You should also be aware of easily accessible potions/signets which make you immune to stun and stifle.</p>

bks6721
03-22-2010, 06:35 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>And Manashield does nothing for you in BG it seems... might absorb an attack or two.  Have a feeling it is normal PVE damage when you hit a wiz/warlock that has manashield on.  I know I have gone through a wizards manashield when he was at full power with one shot.  That shouldnt happen.  Also have had a few brigs go through mine in about 2 seconds solo.</p></blockquote><p>at 13.5k power, my manashield seems to only absorb 2 hits on average.  It will take more weak melee attacks but high dps scouts and mages take my mana to zero in one hit.   At point I'm trying to get killed so I get a mana recharge.  lol</p>

Armawk
03-22-2010, 06:45 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>And Manashield does nothing for you in BG it seems... might absorb an attack or two.  Have a feeling it is normal PVE damage when you hit a wiz/warlock that has manashield on.  I know I have gone through a wizards manashield when he was at full power with one shot.  That shouldnt happen.  Also have had a few brigs go through mine in about 2 seconds solo.</p></blockquote><p>at 13.5k power, my manashield seems to only absorb 2 hits on average.  It will take more weak melee attacks but high dps scouts and mages take my mana to zero in one hit.   At point I'm trying to get killed so I get a mana recharge.  lol</p></blockquote><p>Manashield works pretty well in BGs. If it gets dispelled then its not much help but very few people seem to dispell it. And of course when its done with you have less/no power (you should be getting out of dodge once it is up and I often find it only absorbed 50% power).. but it lets you get behind your own team, and should a tank aggro grab at the right time you have chance to recharge some and start piling in the damage once again.</p><p>Of course dying to get mana is a choice, but when the fights are close its not usually a good one.</p>

Zabom
03-22-2010, 07:35 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Zabom wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>I have killed every class in the van with both my wizzy and my lock. Likwize I have been killed by every class as well. I give you this example. W days ago I went head to head with a brig and was able to take him out before he got me out of the green. The next time I went up against that same brig, he kept me stunned and stifled the entire fight. I was dead he was at. 100%. That is balance. My kill do death ratio in bg is about even and I would classify myself as an average geared average ability player. Naturally you are going to go up against people who are better player then you......no wait. That can't be it.......no one could be better then you. It must be a balance issue.</blockquote><p>Your AA spec sucks for BGs, If you speced right your KVD would increase tenfold</p></blockquote><p>And i could say that your AA spec sucks for BG if you can't kill a wizzy or warlock. It's real simple. If you are having trouble with warlocks, then bump up your noxious resists. If you are having trouble with wizzys bump up the elemental. but don't go crying to the devs "nerf them because i'm not good enough to beat them"</p>

ailen
03-22-2010, 07:37 PM
<p>lets look at the facts.</p><p>Spell resists are broken.</p><p>this will in turn make any class using spell type damage overpowered.</p><p>this includes assassins, considering shadowstep deals poison damage, which in turn is treated like spell damage.</p><p>the title of this thread should read</p><p>"When are you fixing resists?"</p><p>when they fix those, then we can move onto the class specifics. </p>

Zabom
03-22-2010, 07:40 PM
<p style="text-align: left;">MS works well as a means to escape. Pop MS and run. But if you try to stand there and take a beating like a tank, then you will just prolong the inevitable death unless you have a healer with you.</p>

Trawe
03-22-2010, 08:04 PM
<p><cite>Zabom wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have killed every class in the game with both my wizzy and my lock. Likwize I have been killed by every class as well. I give you this example. 2 days ago I went head to head with a brig and was able to take him out before he got me out of the green. The next time I went up against that same brig, he kept me stunned and stifled the entire fight. I was dead he was at. 100%. That is balance. My kill do death ratio in bg is about even and I would classify myself as an average geared average ability player. Naturally you are going to go up against people who are better player then you......no wait. That can't be it.......no one could be better then you. It must be a balance issue.</p></blockquote><p>so because you are unable to do anythuing for surviveability other than click your nukes it is ok to one shot people you say.thanks for proving my point where i said 90% of the mages just want to stand there and click buttons till everything is dead.</p><p>freedom pots , signets etc.... you know - other classes use them aswell ~</p>

Muraazi
03-22-2010, 08:43 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Muraazi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Zabom wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>ok, heres an idea. take away the extra defence that was given to wizzys and walocks for BG, but in return give us back our full nuke potential. After all, they did reduce my damage output to 1/10th what I do in a regular raid and in return gave me maybe twice the defence. I would give up that extra defence to have a 100k ice comet in BG.</p></blockquote><p>well, mom did tell me there was one born every minute....</p><p>100k ice comet lolz.</p></blockquote><p>those are VERY common in raids.  Mage dps is massively reduced in BG</p></blockquote><p>Thank you, I'm not an idiot. It is quite obvious why 100k Ice Comets cannot exist is pvp/BGs. If you think they should you shouldnt be posting in this forum. Hint, Taldier said it, raid mobs have MILLIONS of hps players don't... Here let me get a crayon.</p>

Notsovilepriest
03-22-2010, 09:07 PM
<p><cite>Zabom wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Zabom wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>I have killed every class in the van with both my wizzy and my lock. Likwize I have been killed by every class as well. I give you this example. W days ago I went head to head with a brig and was able to take him out before he got me out of the green. The next time I went up against that same brig, he kept me stunned and stifled the entire fight. I was dead he was at. 100%. That is balance. My kill do death ratio in bg is about even and I would classify myself as an average geared average ability player. Naturally you are going to go up against people who are better player then you......no wait. That can't be it.......no one could be better then you. It must be a balance issue.</blockquote><p>Your AA spec sucks for BGs, If you speced right your KVD would increase tenfold</p></blockquote><p>And i could say that your AA spec sucks for BG if you can't kill a wizzy or warlock. It's real simple. If you are having trouble with warlocks, then bump up your noxious resists. If you are having trouble with wizzys bump up the elemental. but don't go crying to the devs "nerf them because i'm not good enough to beat them"</p></blockquote><p>You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. I was saying your AA spec is pretty bad in terms of BG fighting period. It's totally right that I have 10-13K elemental and disease resists and still get hit for up to 80-90% of my health. Yeah, Great logic. Resists are broken, Thats why you are "Shining" in the BGs currently, after the fix, you may find you don't do as good as you think you were.</p>

Taldier
03-22-2010, 09:10 PM
<p><cite>Zabom wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Zabom wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>I have killed every class in the van with both my wizzy and my lock. Likwize I have been killed by every class as well. I give you this example. W days ago I went head to head with a brig and was able to take him out before he got me out of the green. The next time I went up against that same brig, he kept me stunned and stifled the entire fight. I was dead he was at. 100%. That is balance. My kill do death ratio in bg is about even and I would classify myself as an average geared average ability player. Naturally you are going to go up against people who are better player then you......no wait. That can't be it.......no one could be better then you. It must be a balance issue.</blockquote><p>Your AA spec sucks for BGs, If you speced right your KVD would increase tenfold</p></blockquote><p>And i could say that your AA spec sucks for BG if you can't kill a wizzy or warlock. It's real simple. If you are having trouble with warlocks, then bump up your noxious resists. If you are having trouble with wizzys bump up the elemental. but don't go crying to the devs "nerf them because i'm not good enough to beat them"</p></blockquote><p>You are incapable of basic comprehension.  We can say your aa spec sucks...because there is currently an aa (admitedly broken----> <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=15&topic_id=473600">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=473600</a>) which will allow you to mitigate the vast majority of melee damage down to 0.</p><p>You can not say that someone else sucks because your solution of bumping up resists DOES NOT WORK BECAUSE THE CODE IS CURRENTLY WRONG.</p><p>/em points a giant blinking arrow at thread created by dev -----> <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=474221">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=474221</a></p><p>No amount of resists will give any effective defense against a mage until the old multipliers which were mistakenly left in place during the revamp are removed.</p><p>Im sorry, but sorcs pressing one button to kill someone and being able to absorb a full 30 sec dps burn without taking any damage or using manashield is not uber caster pvp skill.</p><p>/thread end</p>

Selpone
03-22-2010, 11:26 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have never done it... and havent seen it either... a warlock one shotting people that have 25k health... dont think so.   Maybe 25k damage to the whole group if we catch you together but one quick group cure and thats gone.</p></blockquote><p>Agreed.  I can't hit that hard.</p><p>I have a wizard buddy who will run a BG with me from time to time.  I stand out front, he hangs back and we will focus fire on one person at a time.  I would imagine that from the perspective of the other player, it may look like I'm taking on a lot.</p>

Baztien
03-23-2010, 08:20 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Zabom wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Zabom wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>I have killed every class in the van with both my wizzy and my lock. Likwize I have been killed by every class as well. I give you this example. W days ago I went head to head with a brig and was able to take him out before he got me out of the green. The next time I went up against that same brig, he kept me stunned and stifled the entire fight. I was dead he was at. 100%. That is balance. My kill do death ratio in bg is about even and I would classify myself as an average geared average ability player. Naturally you are going to go up against people who are better player then you......no wait. That can't be it.......no one could be better then you. It must be a balance issue.</blockquote><p>Your AA spec sucks for BGs, If you speced right your KVD would increase tenfold</p></blockquote><p>And i could say that your AA spec sucks for BG if you can't kill a wizzy or warlock. It's real simple. If you are having trouble with warlocks, then bump up your noxious resists. If you are having trouble with wizzys bump up the elemental. but don't go crying to the devs "nerf them because i'm not good enough to beat them"</p></blockquote><p>You are incapable of basic comprehension.  We can say your aa spec sucks...because there is currently an aa (admitedly broken----> <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=15&topic_id=473600">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=473600</a>) which will allow you to mitigate the vast majority of melee damage down to 0.</p><p>You can not say that someone else sucks because your solution of bumping up resists DOES NOT WORK BECAUSE THE CODE IS CURRENTLY WRONG.</p><p>/em points a giant blinking arrow at thread created by dev -----> <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=474221">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=474221</a></p><p>No amount of resists will give any effective defense against a mage until the old multipliers which were mistakenly left in place during the revamp are removed.</p><p>Im sorry, but sorcs pressing one button to kill someone and being able to absorb a full 30 sec dps burn without taking any damage or using manashield is not uber caster pvp skill.</p><p>/thread end</p></blockquote><p>The description of Battle Hardened is just physical mitigation. If this is generally the case, then it's beyond the sorc's that would have it, you seem to just target them as examples. If you arent using 4.0 delay weapons (as Brigands and most scouts), then you should make that switch interim, because otherwise you're asking to hit for nothing against abilites as such.</p><p>You might want to ease up on the condescension, afterall I did not see any claim such as "manashield 4tW" or the like.</p>

Zabom
03-23-2010, 09:30 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Zabom wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Zabom wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>I have killed every class in the van with both my wizzy and my lock. Likwize I have been killed by every class as well. I give you this example. W days ago I went head to head with a brig and was able to take him out before he got me out of the green. The next time I went up against that same brig, he kept me stunned and stifled the entire fight. I was dead he was at. 100%. That is balance. My kill do death ratio in bg is about even and I would classify myself as an average geared average ability player. Naturally you are going to go up against people who are better player then you......no wait. That can't be it.......no one could be better then you. It must be a balance issue.</blockquote><p>Your AA spec sucks for BGs, If you speced right your KVD would increase tenfold</p></blockquote><p>And i could say that your AA spec sucks for BG if you can't kill a wizzy or warlock. It's real simple. If you are having trouble with warlocks, then bump up your noxious resists. If you are having trouble with wizzys bump up the elemental. but don't go crying to the devs "nerf them because i'm not good enough to beat them"</p></blockquote><p>You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. I was saying your AA spec is pretty bad in terms of BG fighting period. It's totally right that I have 10-13K elemental and disease resists and still get hit for up to 80-90% of my health. Yeah, Great logic. Resists are broken, Thats why you are "Shining" in the BGs currently, after the fix, you may find you don't do as good as you think you were.</p></blockquote><p>True 10-13 k is not enough. I fight raid mobs. They are 5-8 lvls higher then me. In order to not be resisted at every turn my disruption is over 620 if you want to resist my nukes, your resists need to be at 14k minimum. As far as my AA spec for BG goes, it is 100% defensive. My gear on the other hand is 100% offensive. This is primarily because I am a raider. I will say it again. the problems are not class based, they are GEAR based. High end offensive raid gear counteracts the high end defensive BG gear. If I wore all BG gear I would not die near as much. I also would not do near as much damage. For me it is a trade off if I kill fast I die fast as well. If you are dieing to mages who seem to have too powerfull unresistable nukes, then they are not the same mages who seem to have too high of a defence....unless of course they are changing out gear inbetween attacks based on what role they are laying in the attack. I btw have been known to do exactly that. If I know I am going to be taking hits, I change to my defensive gear. If I know I will be able to stand on the sidelines and nuke I will go offensive.</p>

mrsma
03-23-2010, 10:17 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>When are you going to fix the fact that warlocks own everyone rothgar? There is no reason for a warlock to be able to one shot people with 25k HP.</p></blockquote><p>OK People. Lets get back to the OP.</p><p>The resists are 100% out of whack. The new fix is currently on test. All we want to know is when are they going live?</p><p>LOL at 5 pages of mages defending themselves.</p>

Baztien
03-23-2010, 10:23 AM
<p><cite>mrsmall wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>When are you going to fix the fact that warlocks own everyone rothgar? There is no reason for a warlock to be able to one shot people with 25k HP.</p></blockquote><p>OK People. Lets get back to the OP.</p><p>The resists are 100% out of whack. The new fix is currently on test. All we want to know is when are they going live?</p><p>LOL at 5 pages of mages defending themselves.</p></blockquote><p>Yeah, basically because certain monks want to be able to crush every last class in the game.. for balance purposes of course. Not like being immune to other tanks, scouts and healers isnt enough!</p>

Cigam
03-23-2010, 11:10 AM
<p>I find it funny that wardens of all classes are urging the fight on LOL at that</p>

mrsma
03-23-2010, 11:19 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I find it funny that wardens of all classes are urging the fight on LOL at that</p></blockquote><p>Wardens of all classes?</p><p>But yes "Fight fight fight Fight"</p><p>I laugh in the face of your AOE /post resist fix - MWHAHAHA</p>

Zabom
03-23-2010, 11:49 AM
It seems to me that all of these arguments fail to take into consideration the biggest disadvantage a mage has. We cannot move while casting. If I Target someone then begin the three second process of casting ice comet, there is more then enough time to interupt me and I can't get away from the attack without interupting myself. Melee classes on the other hand can bounce around all over the place deagroing and making it impossible to regain Target while keeping us stunned with combat arts. Ok, nerf our attacks, make us squishy again. But at least put us on equal footing by letting us cast while running. Otherwise you are just asking for mages to be fodder do higher kill numbers.

yadlajoi
03-23-2010, 12:10 PM
Lol @ excuse like it s ok we 1 shoot group and people cause we cant run and cast. When you can reach a mage in 3 seconds there is never a bee line for melee to reach a mage and kill him in time. When there is a bee line with no geometry in the way the mage has 1 shot before you can reach him Not to mention that sorcerer can be interrupt immune. I ll laught the day they fix resist or nerf mages and will take great pleasure in watching sorcerer post here claiming they are useless now that they cant use their 5 or 6 “i win buttons”

Wytie
03-23-2010, 12:31 PM
<p>Why are people arguing with a Wizzy in the nerf warlock thread? ffs</p>

Shankapotomus
03-23-2010, 12:43 PM
<p><cite>Zabom wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>It seems to me that all of these arguments fail to take into consideration the biggest disadvantage a mage has. We cannot move while casting. If I Target someone then begin the three second process of casting ice comet, there is more then enough time to interupt me and I can't get away from the attack without interupting myself. Melee classes on the other hand can bounce around all over the place deagroing and making it impossible to regain Target while keeping us stunned with combat arts. Ok, nerf our attacks, make us squishy again. But at least put us on equal footing by letting us cast while running. Otherwise you are just asking for mages to be fodder do higher kill numbers.</blockquote><p>Zabom is they type of person you get when a brother loves his sister in unspeakable ways.</p><p>If he would read the OP and see that what vile is really referring to is the broken resist system that SOE themselves have stated is wrong.</p><p>Plz actually read Taldier's posts, he so kindly posted the links to the threads for you. But it seems you were incapable of opening them.</p><p>P.S. all spells cast cause the caster to stand still. Meaning that not only mages need to stand still, healers and (yes) even Sks need to.</p><p>The point still is that the resist code is broken. And we want to know when it will be fix.</p><p>thanks for the amusement in the mean time though.</p>

Zabom
03-23-2010, 01:48 PM
Feel free to respond to this debate with any rational arguments you have. But if all you have is muppet pictures, then I will have to assume you have no rational arguments left.

Trawe
03-23-2010, 02:08 PM
<p><cite>Zabom wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Feel free to respond to this debate with any rational arguments you have. But if all you have is muppet pictures, then I will have to assume you have no rational arguments left.</blockquote><p>yes melees can walk and do their combat arts but they also have to because they cannot stun and run away 30 metersto root/mez/stifle/ whatever ~</p><p>it is like i said : caster dont feel they are required to move and change positions during a fight. just stand there and click buttons.this is what you wish - this is what you got atm.</p>

Notsovilepriest
03-23-2010, 02:22 PM
<p><cite>Zabom wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Feel free to respond to this debate with any rational arguments you have. But if all you have is muppet pictures, then I will have to assume you have no rational arguments left.</blockquote><p>No, that is what you get when you blatently ignore all rational arguements because it's easier for you to be ignorant of the truth.</p>

Novusod
03-23-2010, 02:23 PM
<p><cite>Zabom wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Feel free to respond to this debate with any rational arguments you have. But if all you have is muppet pictures, then I will have to assume you have no rational arguments left.</blockquote><p>The rational debate is that casters don't need to cast on the run when they can one shot people at 30meters, and have ports, blinks, roots, snares, stoneskins, manashields, self wards, damage reductions, absorptions etc. The tools mages have to win a fight are legion compared to what a scout or melee tank has. I remember back in KoS when ice bolt and distortion hit for 400. Mages might have been a little [Removed for Content] back then but you what mages still managed to kill scouts and tanks if they had the skill to push more than one button to get their win. Mages today just have to hit one button to be considered a god in pvp.</p>

Notsovilepriest
03-23-2010, 02:25 PM
<p><cite>Novusod wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Zabom wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Feel free to respond to this debate with any rational arguments you have. But if all you have is muppet pictures, then I will have to assume you have no rational arguments left.</blockquote><p>The rational debate is that casters don't need to cast on the run when they can one shot people at 30meters, and have ports, blinks, roots, snares, stoneskins, manashields, self wards, damage reductions, absorptions etc. The tools mages have to win a fight are legion compared to what a scout or melee tank has. I remember back in KoS when ice bolt and distortion hit for 400. Mages might have been a little [Removed for Content] back then but you what mages still managed to kill scouts and tanks if they had the skill to push more than one button to get their win. Mages today just have to hit one button to be considered a god in pvp.</p></blockquote><p>Not to mention when sorcs are speced/geared right they are almost totally impervious to melee</p>

Crismorn
03-23-2010, 04:05 PM
<p>I want a LoS check required at the beginning of each spell like it currently is but also at the end of each spell, this will stop encounter spells from destroying entire teams when the sorc happens to button mash and see someone for a split second, yet he is hiding in some corner having zero risk of dying.</p>

Wytie
03-23-2010, 04:09 PM
<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I want a LoS check required at the beginning of each spell like it currently is but also at the end of each spell, this will stop encounter spells from destroying entire teams when the sorc happens to button mash and see someone for a split second, yet he is hiding in some corner having zero risk of dying.</p></blockquote><p>Are you sure you want that? I bet that all the other healers would love to have to deal with that too?</p><p>You may want to think very carefully what exactly you are asking for, because it has a much greater effect than you think. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Becides thats just not how AOE spells work anyway........</p>

Taldier
03-23-2010, 05:09 PM
<p><cite>Zabom wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>It seems to me that all of these arguments fail to take into consideration the biggest disadvantage a mage has. We cannot move while casting. <strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">If I Target someone then begin the three second process of casting ice comet</span></strong>, there is more then enough time to interupt me and I can't get away from the attack without interupting myself. Melee classes on the other hand can bounce around all over the place deagroing and making it impossible to regain Target while keeping us stunned with combat arts. Ok, nerf our attacks, make us squishy again. But at least put us on equal footing by letting us cast while running. Otherwise you are just asking for mages to be fodder do higher kill numbers.</blockquote><p>What is your casting speed seriously?</p><p>You do know that mages can also deagro?  And that they are allowed to move in between their casts?  You know that those interrupts that melees use when they see you casting have cast times as well?  And that you do have spells other than ice comet and fusion?</p><p>Do we need to keep arguing with the most blubie sorc ever?</p>

Crismorn
03-23-2010, 05:27 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I want a LoS check required at the beginning of each spell like it currently is but also at the end of each spell, this will stop encounter spells from destroying entire teams when the sorc happens to button mash and see someone for a split second, yet he is hiding in some corner having zero risk of dying.</p></blockquote><p><strong>Are you sure you want that? I bet that all the other healers would love to have to deal with that too?</strong></p><p>You may want to think very carefully what exactly you are asking for, because it has a much greater effect than you think. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p><p><strong>Becides thats just not how AOE spells work anyway........</strong></p></blockquote><p>Yes</p><p>Group heals are still ae from the healer</p><p>Im talking about encounter spells, hence why I said encounter spells</p>

Crismorn
03-23-2010, 05:29 PM
<p>I've used encounter nukes/heresy on people by simply targetting one person, waiting for them to appear for a split second so i can nuke him and his entire team with a 2+ second cast spell when i dont even see him let alone the rest of his team by the time its done casting.</p><p>Thats dumb and needs to be fixed</p>

Wytie
03-23-2010, 05:37 PM
<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I want a LoS check required at the beginning of each spell like it currently is but also at the end of each spell, this will stop encounter spells from destroying entire teams when the sorc happens to button mash and see someone for a split second, yet he is hiding in some corner having zero risk of dying.</p></blockquote><p><strong>Are you sure you want that? I bet that all the other healers would love to have to deal with that too?</strong></p><p>You may want to think very carefully what exactly you are asking for, because it has a much greater effect than you think. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p><p><strong>Becides thats just not how AOE spells work anyway........</strong></p></blockquote><p>Yes</p><p>Group heals are still ae from the healer</p><p>Im talking about encounter spells, hence why I said encounter spells</p></blockquote><p>Guess what?</p><p>Encounter spells are A....O....E's.....</p><p>Maybe you should figure out what exactly it is, you are talkn about, before posting about it.</p><p>Encounter spells still have an AOE effect range, meaning the rest of the encounter has to be within a specific range of the inital target for the AOE to fire off on the encounter.</p><p>Line of site of the caster has nothing to do with the effect range an encounter aoe has.</p><p>Green or blue they are still AOE's and they still have an effect radius.</p>

Hellswrath
03-23-2010, 05:42 PM
<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I've used encounter nukes/heresy on people by simply targetting one person, waiting for them to appear for a split second so i can nuke him and his entire team with a 2+ second cast spell when i dont even see him let alone the rest of his team by the time its done casting.</p><p>Thats dumb and needs to be fixed</p></blockquote><p>So you want to change base mechanics because you can't get people to stop poking their heads out when it is completely unnecessary for them to do so?</p><p>By that token, you will also be taking away the ability for mages to fire at range, since so many other classes have such high runspeed.  They could just joust in and pop us with arrows and never get hit.  That would only shift balance to scouts, not fix anything.  Terrible idea.  You would render most mages useless in distance fights.</p><p>As for the cast time of spells, Ice Comet and Apocalypse have a base cast of 4 seconds.  So 3 seconds means they have a decent amount of +cast speed.  The reason we tend to cast these spells is because those of us that <em>don't</em> have dispersion gear and the like only have a few seconds of cast time before we are stun/stifled/mezzed into uselessness until we die against a group that has a clue.  If we don't get some spells out that do damage while the enemy group is closing, we lose all value.  Again, depends on the group that people are up against.</p><p>The spell resist mechanics need to be changed.  Most people agree with this. The devs agree with this and are working on it.  Why are people stilll beating the horse in this thread?</p>

Taldier
03-23-2010, 05:54 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The spell resist mechanics need to be changed.  Most people agree with this. The devs agree with this and are working on it.  Why are people stilll beating the horse in this thread?</p></blockquote><p>I just find it mildly entertaining to debate with someone who thinks they should have been allowed to cast 100k ice comets in pvp.  Dont know why anyone else is posting here <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" /></p>

Crismorn
03-23-2010, 06:57 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I've used encounter nukes/heresy on people by simply targetting one person, waiting for them to appear for a split second so i can nuke him and his entire team with a 2+ second cast spell when i dont even see him let alone the rest of his team by the time its done casting.</p><p>Thats dumb and needs to be fixed</p></blockquote><p><strong>So you want to change base mechanics because you can't get people to stop poking their heads out when it is completely unnecessary for them to do so?</strong></p><p>By that token, you will also be taking away the ability for mages to fire at range, since so many other classes have such high runspeed.  They could just joust in and pop us with arrows and never get hit.  That would only shift balance to scouts, not fix anything.  Terrible idea.  <strong>You would render most mages useless in distance fights.</strong></p><p>As for the cast time of spells, Ice Comet and Apocalypse have a base cast of 4 seconds.  So 3 seconds means they have a decent amount of +cast speed.  The reason we tend to cast these spells is because those of us that <em>don't</em> have dispersion gear and the like only have a few seconds of cast time before we are stun/stifled/mezzed into uselessness until we die against a group that has a clue.  If we don't get some spells out that do damage while the enemy group is closing, we lose all value.  Again, depends on the group that people are up against.</p><p>The spell resist mechanics need to be changed.  Most people agree with this. The devs agree with this and are working on it.  Why are people stilll beating the horse in this thread?</p></blockquote><p>Nope, I want two LoS checks.</p><p>One at the start of casting a spell like we currently have and one as the spell lands, range can be increased after casting the spell but objects that block LoS would cause your spell to not land.</p><p>Actually it would require mages to use more then 1-3 nukes and maybe use other abilities such as root/snare.</p><p>The thing is that good mages would have no problems with this system, but the terrible players would have to learn how to adapt and maybe use more then one hotbar.</p>

bks6721
03-23-2010, 07:00 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Novusod wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Zabom wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Feel free to respond to this debate with any rational arguments you have. But if all you have is muppet pictures, then I will have to assume you have no rational arguments left.</blockquote><p>The rational debate is that casters don't need to cast on the run when they can one shot people at 30meters, and have ports, blinks, roots, snares, stoneskins, manashields, self wards, damage reductions, absorptions etc. The tools mages have to win a fight are legion compared to what a scout or melee tank has. I remember back in KoS when ice bolt and distortion hit for 400. Mages might have been a little [Removed for Content] back then but you what mages still managed to kill scouts and tanks if they had the skill to push more than one button to get their win. Mages today just have to hit one button to be considered a god in pvp.</p></blockquote><p>Not to mention when sorcs are speced/geared right they are almost totally impervious to melee</p></blockquote><p>That would be a really cool title..  "Jjay the Impervious"   </p>

Trawe
03-23-2010, 07:35 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I want a LoS check required at the beginning of each spell like it currently is but also at the end of each spell, this will stop encounter spells from destroying entire teams when the sorc happens to button mash and see someone for a split second, yet he is hiding in some corner having zero risk of dying.</p></blockquote><p><strong>Are you sure you want that? I bet that all the other healers would love to have to deal with that too?</strong></p><p>You may want to think very carefully what exactly you are asking for, because it has a much greater effect than you think. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p><p><strong>Becides thats just not how AOE spells work anyway........</strong></p></blockquote><p>Yes</p><p>Group heals are still ae from the healer</p><p>Im talking about encounter spells, hence why I said encounter spells</p></blockquote><p>Guess what?</p><p>Encounter spells are A....O....E's.....</p><p>Maybe you should figure out what exactly it is, you are talkn about, before posting about it.</p><p>Encounter spells still have an AOE effect range, meaning the rest of the encounter has to be within a specific range of the inital target for the AOE to fire off on the encounter.</p><p>Line of site of the caster has nothing to do with the effect range an encounter aoe has.</p><p>Green or blue they are still AOE's and they still have an effect radius.</p></blockquote><p>so how am i supposed to prevent this in klak for example? you don´t. and that is the point.</p>

Crismorn
03-23-2010, 07:44 PM
<p><cite>Trawe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I want a LoS check required at the beginning of each spell like it currently is but also at the end of each spell, this will stop encounter spells from destroying entire teams when the sorc happens to button mash and see someone for a split second, yet he is hiding in some corner having zero risk of dying.</p></blockquote><p><strong>Are you sure you want that? I bet that all the other healers would love to have to deal with that too?</strong></p><p>You may want to think very carefully what exactly you are asking for, because it has a much greater effect than you think. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p><p><strong>Becides thats just not how AOE spells work anyway........</strong></p></blockquote><p>Yes</p><p>Group heals are still ae from the healer</p><p>Im talking about encounter spells, hence why I said encounter spells</p></blockquote><p>Guess what?</p><p>Encounter spells are A....O....E's.....</p><p>Maybe you should figure out what exactly it is, you are talkn about, before posting about it.</p><p>Encounter spells still have an AOE effect range, meaning the rest of the encounter has to be within a specific range of the inital target for the AOE to fire off on the encounter.</p><p>Line of site of the caster has nothing to do with the effect range an encounter aoe has.</p><p>Green or blue they are still AOE's and they still have an effect radius.</p></blockquote><p>so how am i supposed to prevent this in klak for example? you don´t. and that is the point.</p></blockquote><p>Wasting your time, he is one of the proud many who have deluded themselves to the point where what they believe is true and actual game mechanics be damned.</p><p>Players like him are a big part of the reason that 99% of this games population are incapable of learning actual game mechanics even if you were to draw him a picture w/ crayons the truth would only confuse them into a denial type rage.</p>

steelbadger
03-24-2010, 08:58 AM
<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Nope, I want two LoS checks.</p><p>One at the start of casting a spell like we currently have and one as the spell lands, range can be increased after casting the spell but objects that block LoS would cause your spell to not land.</p><p>Actually it would require mages to use more then 1-3 nukes and maybe use other abilities such as root/snare.</p><p>The thing is that good mages would have no problems with this system, but the terrible players would have to learn how to adapt and maybe use more then one hotbar.</p></blockquote><p>I'm not sure I like that suggestion.  It was have pretty much no effect in Ganak and Smugglers but would make Gears a very real annoyance for casters.  There's so much running around, so many nooks and crannies and so many ways to sneak up on a poorly played caster even without an alteration of the mechanics.  Such a system would mean that in gears the only times you'd be able to land a big long cast time spell would be because the other person lets you, either through stupidity or confidence.</p><p>On the other side of the coin would it mean a caster could begin casting a spell with the target out of LoS and, if they are in LoS when the spell completes casting, still hit them?  Kind of like the way a blue AOE can be begun casting and hit people who move into range.  It's a favourite tactic of mine to pre-emptively cast rift so that it lands just as the enemy get in range.  I'd be ok with it in that case as it at last gives some ability for mages to pre-empt a charge.  In the time it takes one of these big spells to cast I could run from one side of gears to the other, or, more importantly, my target could run from their place of hiding and be in my face hitting interrupts before I can land anything.</p><p>I do indeed play a warlock.  But a fairly [Removed for Content] one in the 80-89 BGs with about 140 AAs.  I've gotta admit to being slightly worried about the furore around Warlocks; my Warlock would become completely irrelevant where some of the calls here heeded.  I do a good job with him and almost always lead on the damage but I've never once one-shotted anyone.  Even 3 shots only happen against newbie casters.  And Rangers eat me.  If a ranger decides I'm their primary then I'm pretty much screwed.</p>

Widjet
03-24-2010, 09:04 AM
<p><cite>steelbadger wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Nope, I want two LoS checks.</p><p>One at the start of casting a spell like we currently have and one as the spell lands, range can be increased after casting the spell but objects that block LoS would cause your spell to not land.</p><p>Actually it would require mages to use more then 1-3 nukes and maybe use other abilities such as root/snare.</p><p>The thing is that good mages would have no problems with this system, but the terrible players would have to learn how to adapt and maybe use more then one hotbar.</p></blockquote><p>I'm not sure I like that suggestion.  It was have pretty much no effect in Ganak and Smugglers but would make Gears a very real annoyance for casters.  There's so much running around, so many nooks and crannies and so many ways to sneak up on a poorly played caster even without an alteration of the mechanics.  Such a system would mean that in gears the only times you'd be able to land a big long cast time spell would be because the other person lets you, either through stupidity or confidence.</p><p>On the other side of the coin would it mean a caster could begin casting a spell with the target out of LoS and, if they are in LoS when the spell completes casting, still hit them?  Kind of like the way a blue AOE can be begun casting and hit people who move into range.  It's a favourite tactic of mine to pre-emptively cast rift so that it lands just as the enemy get in range.  I'd be ok with it in that case as it at last gives some ability for mages to pre-empt a charge.  In the time it takes one of these big spells to cast I could run from one side of gears to the other, or, more importantly, my target could run from their place of hiding and be in my face hitting interrupts before I can land anything.</p><p>I do indeed play a warlock.  But a fairly [Removed for Content] one in the 80-89 BGs with about 140 AAs.  I've gotta admit to being slightly worried about the furore around Warlocks; my Warlock would become completely irrelevant where some of the calls here heeded.  I do a good job with him and almost always lead on the damage but I've never once one-shotted anyone.  Even 3 shots only happen against newbie casters.  And Rangers eat me.  If a ranger decides I'm their primary then I'm pretty much screwed.</p></blockquote><p>I agree that a spell should not land if im behind a wall away from the caster. When running flags in Ganak, it's really annoying when your out of the base already and behind a wall completely away from the caster and you get hit with a 10k Ice comet our whatever spell it is at the time. It should check at the end of the spell if the target is in LoS.</p>

Wytie
03-24-2010, 11:14 AM
<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Wasting your time, he is one of the proud many who have deluded themselves to the point where what they believe is true and actual game mechanics be damned.</p><p><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong>Players like him are a big part of the reason that 99% of this games population are incapable of learning actual game mechanics</strong></span> even if you were to draw him a picture w/ crayons the truth would only confuse them into a denial type rage.</p></blockquote><p>lol</p><p>I was just suspicious that you had no clue what you were talking about yesterday, but now I am sure of it.</p><p><em>All this because you cannot instruct your group members, to not poke their head out 1 by 1 standing close by to everyone else, so a lock doesn't melt your whole groups face off.</em></p><p><strong>Funny, so since you or your team cannot adapt to this basic AOE mechanic that has been in place forever, you would rather change how encounter aoe's work to better fit your play style, because its too hard or difficult of a mechanic to counter and figure out or even try to avoid?</strong></p><p>GG!  </p><p><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Now who cant learn how to play</span>?</p>

Shankapotomus
03-24-2010, 11:32 AM
<p><cite><a href="mailto<img src="></a>[email protected]">[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Wasting your time, he is one of the proud many who have deluded themselves to the point where what they believe is true and actual game mechanics be damned.</p><p><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong>Players like him are a big part of the reason that 99% of this games population are incapable of learning actual game mechanics</strong></span> even if you were to draw him a picture w/ crayons the truth would only confuse them into a denial type rage.</p></blockquote><p>lol</p><p>I was just suspicious that you had no clue what you were talking about yesterday, but now I am sure of it.</p><p><em>All this because you cannot instruct your group members, to not poke their head out 1 by 1 standing close by to everyone else, so a lock doesn't melt your whole groups face off.</em></p><p><strong>Funny, so since you or your team cannot adapt to this basic AOE mechanic that has been in place forever, you would rather change how encounter aoe's work to better fit your play style, because its too hard or difficult of a mechanic to counter and figure out or even try to avoid?</strong></p><p>GG!  </p><p><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Now who cant learn how to play</span>?</p></blockquote><p>Paill... Quit poppin Blue brains.</p><p>lets break it down real quick.</p><p>AoE- effect radius of ability cast is centered on the <span style="color: #00ff00;">caster</span>, EFFECTING all ajacent <span style="color: #ff0000;">foes</span> to the <span style="color: #00ff00;">caster</span></p><p>AE- effect radius of ability cast is centered on targeted <span style="color: #ff0000;">foe</span>, Effecting all ajacent <span style="color: #ff0000;">foes</span> to the <span style="color: #ff0000;">foe</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Also, an AE only effects targets that are grouped within the radius. </span></p><p><span><span style="color: #ffffff;">Meaning of you whole up and let one of you team mates poke his squishy head out in gears, when the warlock casts an AE it will not only effect him but the whole group. This means if just one of your team mates is in line of sight, you're all going for the ride with him.</span></span></p><p><span><span style="color: #ffffff;">And no bluebies, the solution isn't to seperate and go get squished one by one instead.</span></span></p><p><span><span style="color: #ffffff;">I can hear the bluebie brain fizzle.</span></span></p>

Trawe
03-24-2010, 12:19 PM
<p>while this might be witty his plea was to get another los check for the targeted enemy when cast goes off.this has nothing to do with how aoe or ae works imo ~</p>

Shankapotomus
03-24-2010, 12:43 PM
<p><cite>Trawe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>while this might be witty his plea was to get another los check for the targeted enemy when cast goes off.this has nothing to do with how aoe or ae works imo ~</p></blockquote><p>Actually sir, it sure does have to do. The fact that people are too lazy to take a few steps back around the corner does not mean they should change the whole game mechanics.</p><p>Do you understand what this would be doing for scout classes? bow attacks all day, then you decide you'd like to actually land a spell, so you come up close. Which is the whole reason mages have long ranges considering it should work out that if a mage can't kill a scout before the scout reaches him, then the mage is dead.</p><p>I thought it would be more helpful to explain whats actually happening than to just outright put him down.</p><p>Calling for a second LoS because you can't take a couple of steps and don't care to take the current game mechanics into account is only a muted cry into the Norrathian sky.</p>

Shredderr
03-24-2010, 04:19 PM
<p>The problem I c here is that melee classes are so used to mages being just another update for so long they have lost all respect for the class unless u were a chanter . U dont realize that assasins and rangers outparse sorcerers still yet in raids and even heroic instances Ice comets hits for over 100,000 . still competing with some scouts for dps overall. sorcerers just get it in one lump sum . so if u have 25,000 hp me only hitting u for 32,000 is quite fair if you let me get the spell off .</p>

Tehom
03-24-2010, 04:29 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite></cite></p><p>Paill... Quit poppin Blue brains.</p><p>lets break it down real quick.</p><p>AoE- effect radius of ability cast is centered on the <span style="color: #00ff00;">caster</span>, EFFECTING all ajacent <span style="color: #ff0000;">foes</span> to the <span style="color: #00ff00;">caster</span></p><p>AE- effect radius of ability cast is centered on targeted <span style="color: #ff0000;">foe</span>, Effecting all ajacent <span style="color: #ff0000;">foes</span> to the <span style="color: #ff0000;">foe</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Also, an AE only effects targets that are grouped within the radius. </span></p><p><span><span style="color: #ffffff;">Meaning of you whole up and let one of you team mates poke his squishy head out in gears, when the warlock casts an AE it will not only effect him but the whole group. This means if just one of your team mates is in line of sight, you're all going for the ride with him.</span></span></p><p><span><span style="color: #ffffff;">And no bluebies, the solution isn't to seperate and go get squished one by one instead.</span></span></p><p><span><span style="color: #ffffff;">I can hear the luebie brain fizzle.</span></span></p></blockquote><p>It's a bit easier to say 'blue' or 'green' AEs rather than trying to invent arbitrary designations that people won't agree on. Personally I think adding any sort of additional checks to spells is usually a dangerous suggestion, because more checks in client/server synchronization can usually have unintended consequences for gameplay that affect far more than the issue they're just trying to solve. Intuitively, just having green AEs hit only those you have line of sight on would probably make more sense, but I don't see any really compelling reason to change how they work since players can just play around them, and I don't think they confer any really crushing advantage save when their effect radius is buggy/infinite. Any abilities that have infinite range are almost certainly buggy/oversights, though.</p>

Notsovilepriest
03-24-2010, 04:35 PM
<p><cite>Shredderr wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The problem I c here is that melee classes are so used to mages being just another update for so long they have lost all respect for the class unless u were a chanter . U dont realize that assasins and rangers outparse sorcerers still yet in raids and even heroic instances Ice comets hits for over 100,000 . still competing with some scouts for dps overall. sorcerers just get it in one lump sum . so if u have 25,000 hp me only hitting u for 32,000 is quite fair if you let me get the spell off .</p></blockquote><p>Your logic is so terribad it's not even funny. Mobs have MILLIONS of health which you are hitting for 100k, Players have 18-30k(Generously)  so hitting for 32k as you said is assinine. Are you seriously saying you should be able to 1 shot if you can get 1.5 seconds to cast? 1.5 seconds is decent time,but still not long enough to justify a 1 shot but there shouldn't EVER be any 1 shots for any reason. I mean really do you think giving the 2nd party no chance to justify because you can nuke them from 35-70m out? Just wow.</p>

Siphar
03-24-2010, 04:38 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Shredderr wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The problem I c here is that melee classes are so used to mages being just another update for so long they have lost all respect for the class unless u were a chanter . U dont realize that assasins and rangers outparse sorcerers still yet in raids and even heroic instances Ice comets hits for over 100,000 . still competing with some scouts for dps overall. sorcerers just get it in one lump sum . so if u have 25,000 hp me only hitting u for 32,000 is quite fair if you let me get the spell off .</p></blockquote><p>Your logic is so terribad it's not even funny. Mobs have MILLIONS of health which you are hitting for 100k, Players have 18-30k(Generously)  so hitting for 32k as you said is assinine. Are you seriously saying you should be able to 1 shot if you can get 1.5 seconds to cast? 1.5 seconds is decent time,but still not long enough to justify a 1 shot but there shouldn't EVER be any 1 shots for any reason. I mean really do you think giving the 2nd party no chance to justify because you can nuke them from 35-70m out? Just wow.</p></blockquote><p>Nagafen has been adjusting to and learning the pvp rule set for a few years... now we have to teach the bluebies that PvE doesn't equal PvP.. and that PvE mob i.e. PvP player isn't a predictable mob... that should be 1-shot as part of a trivial quest</p>

Notsovilepriest
03-24-2010, 04:47 PM
<p><cite>Siphar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Shredderr wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The problem I c here is that melee classes are so used to mages being just another update for so long they have lost all respect for the class unless u were a chanter . U dont realize that assasins and rangers outparse sorcerers still yet in raids and even heroic instances Ice comets hits for over 100,000 . still competing with some scouts for dps overall. sorcerers just get it in one lump sum . so if u have 25,000 hp me only hitting u for 32,000 is quite fair if you let me get the spell off .</p></blockquote><p>Your logic is so terribad it's not even funny. Mobs have MILLIONS of health which you are hitting for 100k, Players have 18-30k(Generously)  so hitting for 32k as you said is assinine. Are you seriously saying you should be able to 1 shot if you can get 1.5 seconds to cast? 1.5 seconds is decent time,but still not long enough to justify a 1 shot but there shouldn't EVER be any 1 shots for any reason. I mean really do you think giving the 2nd party no chance to justify because you can nuke them from 35-70m out? Just wow.</p></blockquote><p>Nagafen has been adjusting to and learning the pvp rule set for a few years... now we have to teach the bluebies that PvE doesn't equal PvP.. and that PvE mob i.e. PvP player isn't a predictable mob... that should be 1-shot as part of a trivial quest</p></blockquote><p>I know, Do mobs in raids nuke for 32k unless its a fail condition? Rarely</p>

Armawk
03-24-2010, 05:30 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Shredderr wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The problem I c here is that melee classes are so used to mages being just another update for so long they have lost all respect for the class unless u were a chanter . U dont realize that assasins and rangers outparse sorcerers still yet in raids and even heroic instances Ice comets hits for over 100,000 . still competing with some scouts for dps overall. sorcerers just get it in one lump sum . so if u have 25,000 hp me only hitting u for 32,000 is quite fair if you let me get the spell off .</p></blockquote><p>Your logic is so terribad it's not even funny. Mobs have MILLIONS of health which you are hitting for 100k, Players have 18-30k(Generously)  so hitting for 32k as you said is assinine. Are you seriously saying you should be able to 1 shot if you can get 1.5 seconds to cast? 1.5 seconds is decent time,but still not long enough to justify a 1 shot but there shouldn't EVER be any 1 shots for any reason. I mean really do you think giving the 2nd party no chance to justify because you can nuke them from 35-70m out? Just wow.</p></blockquote><p>I say this purely in the spirit of deserved sarcasm (i.e. I dont mean it): 'Quit QQing and go back to PvE if you dont want to die noob. diddums ickle ice comet kill oo?'</p><p>That said, no, I dont think one shots are a good thing even if they make logical sense, as they dont give people a chance to do anything about it. 3-4 shotting you if I can get a debuff, ice comet and couple of quick casting follow-ups off? Yes I think thats fair.</p>

Shredderr
03-24-2010, 05:48 PM
<p>Personally a guaranteed death is a guaranteed death dont matter if its fast or quick . Quick may be better actually since u can rez sooner . I am quite used to being mezzed stifled stunned and dead and pots only help me go from one control effect to another . Illys and coercers have in the past meant certain death . and somewhat longsuffering since I have to wait and watch him choose to debuff me and wait for his pals to catch up and all get the update or ... debuff me and blow me up himself while stunned for the finishing touches .Didnt whine just knew those classes i cant fade . period . Others whine about Sk's and I never did feel the same cause they rarly win facing myself and had to be v well geared as well as up close when the fight starts . So like I said if my now 32,000 nuke gets mitigated to .... 18,000 and u are rollin solo with 17,500 whups so sorry . get up and try again .</p><p>Sorcerers only chance to win , well at least wizards not locks cause they have AA lines to help . My only chance is to kill u before u get to me . My manashield gets one shotted its worthless then i get one shotted in effect not by 1 ca but in 1.5 seconds yeah many classes can do this in the 1.5 seconds u think it takes to cast Ice comet as if even half the wizards doing this have access to the gear necessary to get the spell cast this low .</p><p>If a sin drops on me I can be dead by the time I hit my pot then gofor mana shield then he stuns me while .. no never mind I am giving away stats here lol no . If i can be dead in a second or 2 just because u hit me 10 times in that moment doesnt make it different than me taking the sweet 1.5 seconds to attempt to get off Ice Comet . And Fyi I was 1 shotting folks pre this expansion its just that it was resisted 8 out of 10 times . So most got used to laughing while they watched the word resist fly off their head while every physical attack that came my way struck hard into this squishy with half their mitigation as well as 2/3's thier hitpoints ... real fair there I guess iyo ?</p>

lollipop
03-24-2010, 07:26 PM
<p>I am so sick of getting the msg "you fail to infilct any dmg" cause of screwed up caster aa and scouts/brawlers with fast weapons.</p><p>Sick of being one shotted.</p><p>Least the fail to infilct is only on my monk. lol been jumping around playing each of my 4 toons at one time or another in BG.</p><p>Its alot of fun when no group has casters and battle it out! I hope we can add a deathmatch and 1x1 type thing soon. Maybe 1 of one first person to kill the other 5 times wins ect.</p><p>Its been posted a fix is INC. Please hurry and get this in place.</p>

Armawk
03-24-2010, 07:27 PM
<p><cite>Shredderr wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If i can be dead in a second or 2 just because u hit me 10 times in that moment doesnt make it different than me taking the sweet 1.5 seconds to attempt to get off Ice Comet .</p></blockquote><p>mm I think there IS a difference. remember as a wiz you have a couple of almost instant casting lower damage hits you can follow up with if they dont get out of there fast enough, especially with the ice comet knockdown component (that works in PvP doesnt it?). I think a root/stun-ice comet-2 quick spells is a fairer equivalent to what they do to you than a 1 shot which gives literally no chance to even try to react.</p>

Shankapotomus
03-24-2010, 08:39 PM
<p><cite>Shredderr wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The problem I c here is that melee classes are so used to mages being just another update for so long they have lost all respect for the class unless u were a chanter . U dont realize that assasins and rangers outparse sorcerers still yet in raids and even heroic instances Ice comets hits for over 100,000 . still competing with some scouts for dps overall. sorcerers just get it in one lump sum . so if u have 25,000 hp me only hitting u for 32,000 is quite fair if you let me get the spell off .</p></blockquote><p>This is so sad.</p><p>What you're saying is that any mage who can click a button should be able to kill a good scout without even as much as an engage?</p><p>WRONG</p>

Electrostatic
03-25-2010, 02:51 AM
<p><span >Ok so here it goes... I know I am going to get "Cause you suck" or "You are a noob" comments here but still. I dont one shot very many people at all, in fact I find there are yet many more times when I will be relentlessly knocked back or stiffled till I am dead. and I dont know if I am the only one, but has anyone else sent an Ice Comet followed by a Fireball and a devestation Blast only to see the target still at 100% health with no heals ? I look back at my combat log to see that my spells had hit the target but inflicted no damage ? this is agrivating to me. I need to one shot people but if my spell is gonna hit, let it at least do SOME damage lol.</span></p>

Taldier
03-25-2010, 03:42 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span>Ok so here it goes... I know I am going to get "Cause you suck" or "You are a noob" comments here but still. I dont one shot very many people at all, in fact I find there are yet many more times when I will be relentlessly knocked back or stiffled till I am dead. and I dont know if I am the only one, but has anyone else sent an Ice Comet followed by a Fireball and a devestation Blast only to see the target still at 100% health with no heals ? I look back at my combat log to see that my spells had hit the target but inflicted no damage ? this is agrivating to me. I need to one shot people but if my spell is gonna hit, let it at least do SOME damage lol.</span></p></blockquote><p>There are a few classes which have limited stoneskin abilities which allow them to absorb a couple hits.  This is when you waste those stoneskins with a quick low damage spell.  Pvp players are not raid mobs.  You cannot simply stand there and go down your hotbar casting order, ignoring classes and what temp buffs people have active, and expect to kill people.</p>