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View Full Version : PUG vs Premade


Avirodar
03-03-2010, 12:30 PM
<p>I had numerous enjoyable visits to the Battlegrounds this evening. I primarily played as a solo PUG entrant in the 6 vs 6 arena, and battled mostly against other PUGs. After a few hours, I started to notice a considerable discrepancy occuring, when premade groups go up against random PUGs.To promote competitive gameplay in the 6 versus 6 battlegrounds, premade groups (4+) should have to fight other premade groups, and leave PUGs to fight other PUGs. If no other premade groups are joining the queue, the premade could be given the option to be put in as individuals, or wait longer for an opposition premade.Despite primarily playing as a solo PUG entrant, I have participated in a handful premades (there was 4 of us).  Most battleground encounters we came across were a completely lop sided affair with no challenge, because we were up against a group of random PUGs. This does not make for enjoyable gaming. Balance in battlegrounds is important. Premade vs raw PUG is not balanced.To illustrate the situation, there has been a couple of times where I was in a random PUG, and the premade group was not only decisively killing the PUGs, but they were also camping right below the respawn point, waiting for the PUGs to respawn so they can kill them again. It is not fun.I understand people like playing with guildies and friends. I am all for that. I even want to propose SOE including a function to allow players to make cross-server groups/raids to queue a battleground instances, for that very purpose. But the PUGs and the Premades need to be kept seperate. Otherwise its just boring and one sided.</p>

JimmyC01
03-03-2010, 03:58 PM
<p>Have you ever gone to a hard instance with a PUG group before and had a really hard time killing stuff...then gone into the same instance with a set group. Did you happen to notice that the set group had a easier time killing mobs. Well thats the same way it works in the battlegrounds. Why should they give the PUGs the same advantage to playing as the set groups. If you want that advantage...get a group.</p>

Tehom
03-03-2010, 04:05 PM
<p>I agree that their matching system should at least try to match prearranged groups against other prearranged groups rather those which are mostly or entirely created by the system fetching individual players and lumping them together. I'd imagine it'd be technically feasible, and I generally think that it'd make for a more enjoyable BG experience. I mean, sure, it can be a lot of fun to just crush team after team of pickup groups that have absolutely no chance to win, especially if you're introducing friends to pvp who've never done it before, but eventually it might get a little dull even for the winners, much less the losers.</p><p>Personally I hope they eventually find some way to introduce a ladder system, so raids could be matched against others with comparable win records.</p>

Destriel
03-03-2010, 04:19 PM
<p>The system favors premade, organized, and especially guild groups where you all have raided/grouped together in the past, but why shouldn't it?  I've been playing BG a lot, solo and with premades, and to be honest I think it's OK the way it is.  If you want to win a lot, you put together a group of friends and go blow people up.  If you want to take your chances, queue solo.  I've been in PUGs that have won against premades, and lost to premades while in a premade.  The matches are short enough to ensure that, even if you are getting smashed, it's not really a huge amount of time invested.</p><p>If a WW ranking system were enabled, where winning and losing against others would actually matter, then I would be all for a system like this.  But I really like the fact that, if people want to win consistantly, they have to become organzied and actually put some effort in to their BGs.  They can still get the gear if they just want to PUG forever, it will just take a lot longer.</p><p>In my mind the biggest problem with PUGs, especially in 6v6, is when the matchmaker doesn't feel the need to include a healer in the group.  Makes me emo.</p>

goryf
03-03-2010, 04:54 PM
<p>it would be cool if it made an effort to set premade up against premade but how realistic is that?  are you going to sit there with 23 impatient ppl in your raid waiting for some other raid force from some other server to do the same??  it could take ages.  comunication is the key not premade or pug. use VC.  i have been in multiple pugs that have owned premede.  one in klak with no healer and we still owned.  lol</p>

Dojac
03-03-2010, 05:00 PM
<p>Welcome to the jungle.  By entering the battle grounds you are out looking for PvP and PvP isn't always fair.  The smart players try to stack the odds in their favor i.e. forming a group to join the BG together.  I'm going to give you the same answer we've been getting on PvP servers for years (regarding seemingly unfair fights) if you have a PvP problem find a PvP solution.</p>

goryf
03-03-2010, 05:20 PM
<p>thats where i think most ppl hate PvP players in BG over PvE players.  on thier servers it is easier for them to find players who are warmed up to the idea of BG.  they have been PvPin for at least 80 levels or more.  but on a PvE server most players picked PvE becaue they do not like PvP concept.  they say it is to crazy.  this makes it harder to get a full grp much less a full raid together from a PvE server.  give it time however and this will change.  i know i have personally gotten about 50 players addicted to BG on the mistmoore server.  i am trying to get as many as i can so that i know enough ppl and classes to set up a full mismoore raid for smugglers.</p>

Shorcon
03-03-2010, 09:04 PM
<p>To me this would take away the need to form a Battleground premade guild. I actualy look forward to pug smashing. If you dont like the but woopins join a premade and be the one doin the woopin. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Avirodar
03-04-2010, 12:22 AM
<p><cite>Shorcon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>To me this would take away the need to form a Battleground premade guild. I actualy look forward to pug smashing. If you dont like the but woopins join a premade and be the one doin the woopin. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>It is interesting that you so openly state an eagerness to participate in completely one sided slaughters of random PUGs. As a long time player of real PVP games (FPS etc) I found such activities to become incredibly boring and lackluster many years ago.Some people actually play games to have a challenge. Running around with super premades wanting to smash random PUGs gets very boring, very fast, to any mature gamer.Running around thinking you are uber, because you're in a select premade group that is fighting random PUGs, is the mark of a noob.</p>

Sprin
03-04-2010, 02:12 AM
<p>the fact remains that 90% of bluebies that join BGs like to "CHARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGE" and go zerg in the middle of whatever map there is because they are so used to camping and fighting some scripted mob, that this change of pace makes them feel like they are cool...</p><p>PUGS fail because the vast majority of people dont listen to reason and want to just go in for a zergfest... while that worked great for getting tokens in PVP zergathons, it fails in all but the Klackanon bg map....</p><p>19 x4 zones today, 17 losses... only so much 1 person can do to combat 23 other peoples incompetance TBH....</p>

Armawk
03-04-2010, 03:12 AM
<p>I am generally going to be in a PUG but it do not support this separation in any way.</p>