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View Full Version : Keep PVP with PVP, and PVE with PVE.


Aanadorn68
02-28-2010, 11:22 PM
<p>Initially I played BG I absolutely hated it, for the same reason I detest PVP in general, it's all just about ganking.  A group of highly geared players just swarming over lower level and/or lower geared and/or lower number/solo players and tearing them apart.  Obviously by the number of PVE versus PVP servers we know what the clear majority of players like.  There are PVP servers for those who like that sort of thing, the two never met and the world was fine.  My initial impression of BG was log in, have about 10 seconds to buff, and just die and die and die again.</p><p>Today I gave BG another try and find myself liking it a bit more.  Was able to get on with some guildmates and we were able to get a bit farther.  But I noticed a vast discrepancy which makes me absolutely hate BG.  When we got on and played with PVE players it was a hell of a lot of fun, quite a blast.  The games were fairly even, and sometimes not even as one group might have had some great skill or tactics.  On the other hand when we were put up against a PVP server team they completely wiped us, and I mean completely.  Obviously, as has been stated before, these players have much superior gear to what PVE players have.  Now I'm not blaming it all on the gear, but you have players who have PVPed for 90 levels, they are used to ganking, they have their PVP strategies down to a t.  Whether it's skill or gear, they have them both.  Enter a PVE player who has never ever PVPed in his entire EQ lifetime, and is geared and skilled for PVE gameplay.  This is NOT fun to be wiped like this.  I played at least 30 matches today and this was the case every single time we were against PVP players.</p><p>Now I know exactly what the PVPers will say.  I know, improve my skills, improve my gear, etc etc.  But honestly the skills that a PVP player took months or even years to become second nature, are not going to come that easily to me, and in the meantime I can just look forward to getting ganked constantly.  Same with gear, on my server there is no mastercraft armor on the broker for me, and I guess I can just get on and get ganked until I save up the tokens, one at a time, for the fabled armor.  I'm not sure if I will learn any skills from just constantly getting killed, but I will sure as hell have all my PVP armor for use in BG.</p><p>So before all the PVPers jump in and tell me what a wimp I am, lets seriously consider that PVP and PVE should not be pitted against each other, or at least GIVE US THE CHOICE if we want to go against seasoned PVP players who have years more experience and more gear.</p><p>Devs, I know you are reading the feedback here.  You know there are a PVE players asking why they are being thrown into unfair and unfun situations against PVP players.  You know that whatever matching services you eventually hash out NEEDS to include the option to not play against PVP players.</p><p>OK PVP players, feel free to start the flame against me, I'm fully expecting it.  But the fact of the matter is that SOE is going to ruin BG unless they allow us this option.  It's something that could be fun, but is NOT.</p>

Cabel
02-28-2010, 11:24 PM
<p><cite>Aanadorn68 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Initially I played BG I absolutely hated it, for the same reason I detest PVP in general, it's all just about ganking.  A group of highly geared players just swarming over lower level and/or lower geared and/or lower number/solo players and tearing them apart.  Obviously by the number of PVE versus PVP servers we know what the clear majority of players like.  There are PVP servers for those who like that sort of thing, the two never met and the world was fine.  My initial impression of BG was log in, have about 10 seconds to buff, and just die and die and die again.</p><p>Today I gave BG another try and find myself liking it a bit more.  Was able to get on with some guildmates and we were able to get a bit farther.  But I noticed a vast discrepancy which makes me absolutely hate BG.  When we got on and played with PVE players it was a hell of a lot of fun, quite a blast.  The games were fairly even, and sometimes not even as one group might have had some great skill or tactics.  On the other hand when we were put up against a PVP server team they completely wiped us, and I mean completely.  Obviously, as has been stated before, these players have much superior gear to what PVE players have.  Now I'm not blaming it all on the gear, but you have players who have PVPed for 90 levels, they are used to ganking, they have their PVP strategies down to a t.  Whether it's skill or gear, they have them both.  Enter a PVE player who has never ever PVPed in his entire EQ lifetime, and is geared and skilled for PVE gameplay.  This is NOT fun to be wiped like this.  I played at least 30 matches today and this was the case every single time we were against PVP players.</p><p>Now I know exactly what the PVPers will say.  I know, improve my skills, improve my gear, etc etc.  But honestly the skills that a PVP player took months or even years to become second nature, are not going to come that easily to me, and in the meantime I can just look forward to getting ganked constantly.  Same with gear, on my server there is no mastercraft armor on the broker for me, and I guess I can just get on and get ganked until I save up the tokens, one at a time, for the fabled armor.  I'm not sure if I will learn any skills from just constantly getting killed, but I will sure as hell have all my PVP armor for use in BG.</p><p>So before all the PVPers jump in and tell me what a wimp I am, lets seriously consider that PVP and PVE should not be pitted against each other, or at least GIVE US THE CHOICE if we want to go against seasoned PVP players who have years more experience and more gear.</p><p>Devs, I know you are reading the feedback here.  You know there are a PVE players asking why they are being thrown into unfair and unfun situations against PVP players.  You know that whatever matching services you eventually hash out NEEDS to include the option to not play against PVP players.</p><p>OK PVP players, feel free to start the flame against me, I'm fully expecting it.  But the fact of the matter is that SOE is going to ruin BG unless they allow us this option.  It's something that could be fun, but is NOT.</p></blockquote><p>Stop whining with these posts!  Go buy some Mastercrafted PvP gear already!  I come from Najena and am doing just fine!  Try harder!</p>

rebyenliv
02-28-2010, 11:32 PM
<p>It's not all about the gear. It helps, but it's like any other server you can slap someone in good gear and it doesn't make them the best. Some on Nagafen are really good, some just suck.  Don't freak out just because they have a nafagen tag lol </p>

Notsovilepriest
02-28-2010, 11:42 PM
<p><cite>Aanadorn68 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Initially I played BG I absolutely hated it, for the same reason I detest PVP in general, it's all just about ganking.  A group of highly geared players just swarming over lower level and/or lower geared and/or lower number/solo players and tearing them apart.  Obviously by the number of PVE versus PVP servers we know what the clear majority of players like.  There are PVP servers for those who like that sort of thing, the two never met and the world was fine.  My initial impression of BG was log in, have about 10 seconds to buff, and just die and die and die again.</p></blockquote><p>This comment about server populations irks me. Using the number of servers scews it so much since PvP was not open at game launch, had it been, it could have turned out different. A lot of people when PvP came out had wanted to go there from blue, but already had guilds or other things they felt obligated to keep with so stayed blue and it's a perpetual cycle.</p><p>What makes someone good a PvP is their ability to know the other classes and what they do and/or offer to others, knowing what to do to counter those, and not frazzling under pressure. If you get flustered extremely easily, you will lose 90% of your fights.</p>

JININ
02-28-2010, 11:43 PM
<p>Ganked? Do you know what Ganked means? Are you one of the AFKers who is getting ganked while just standing in the one location you chose to stand and leave the PC? Im sure you do but you are in a PVP battle and not doing quests or harvesting a area they want to harvest. I have done over a 100 matches and i understand they are better equiped for this type of battle but we are also mixed with them as well! I don't agree with the teams being put together in the group vs group when no healer is put on the team and 2 healers on other. Over all i love being with them and against them cause they don't always win ever match so i can't see your justification of keeping them away from us PVE people.</p>

Aanadorn68
02-28-2010, 11:51 PM
<p>Just to clarify, even though I did state it already, I'm proposing a matchmaking system where we can choose to play with PVP players, or not play with them.  I was a healer in these situations, regularly heal raid zones and consider myself an excellent healer.  I was not afk, but was trying my best to play.</p><p>This is my feedback, some might not agree with it and I'm ok with that.</p>

Adba
02-28-2010, 11:55 PM
<p>I like testing myself against "real" PvP people, I think it's fun... Sure I get 'ripped a new one' more often than not, but I also win now and then, and I can see my own skill improving, thanks to the "real" PvP people <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Only things that really annoys me about BG, are the people that don't even try or give up too fast.. and the long #¤% queues *yawn*</p>

Megavolt
03-01-2010, 12:09 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I like testing myself against "real" PvP people, I think it's fun... Sure I get 'ripped a new one' more often than not, but I also win now and then, and I can see my own skill improving, thanks to the "real" PvP people <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Only things that really annoys me about BG, are the people that don't even try or give up too fast.. and the long #¤% queues *yawn*</p></blockquote><p>Ditto. Although I don't care if people afk when the groups are stacked no healers to 2 or 3.</p>

Nayawk
03-01-2010, 12:35 AM
<p><cite>Aanadorn68 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just to clarify, even though I did state it already, I'm proposing a matchmaking system where we can choose to play with PVP players, or not play with them.  I was a healer in these situations, regularly heal raid zones and consider myself an excellent healer.  I was not afk, but was trying my best to play.</p><p>This is my feedback, some might not agree with it and I'm ok with that.</p></blockquote><p>This is one of the fairer suggestions I've heard, which has generally been ignored.  Have a system where you can check a box for pve/pve play only... with the default with pve/pvp.  As a person gets better and learns more and geared more and feels more confident then they can unclick the pve/pve box to try there hand.  And those who want to jump into the deep end are welcome to do so also. </p><p>I say this to my father everytime I see him trying to teach my nephews chess... they aren't going to learn anything if all you do is beat them in 3 moves, they will get fed up and won't bother.  You can't learn anything in matches in BG's that last a min tops or if all you find happening is stun dead stun dead stun dead until the timer runs out.</p><p>You want pve players to learn, to gear up but ignore a perfectly sensible suggestion which would allow them to do so in a constructive manner.</p>

Notsovilepriest
03-01-2010, 12:51 AM
<p><cite>Nayawk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Aanadorn68 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just to clarify, even though I did state it already, I'm proposing a matchmaking system where we can choose to play with PVP players, or not play with them.  I was a healer in these situations, regularly heal raid zones and consider myself an excellent healer.  I was not afk, but was trying my best to play.</p><p>This is my feedback, some might not agree with it and I'm ok with that.</p></blockquote><p>This is one of the fairer suggestions I've heard, which has generally been ignored.  Have a system where you can check a box for pve/pve play only... with the default with pve/pvp.  As a person gets better and learns more and geared more and feels more confident then they can unclick the pve/pve box to try there hand.  And those who want to jump into the deep end are welcome to do so also. </p><p>I say this to my father everytime I see him trying to teach my nephews chess... they aren't going to learn anything if all you do is beat them in 3 moves, they will get fed up and won't bother.  You can't learn anything in matches in BG's that last a min tops or if all you find happening is stun dead stun dead stun dead until the timer runs out.</p><p>You want pve players to learn, to gear up but ignore a perfectly sensible suggestion which would allow them to do so in a constructive manner.</p></blockquote><p>your not going to learn much about riding a bike without training wheels when you do nothing but ride a bike with them. Trial by fire is the anwser, When you get lit up, ask what happened, what you could do differently, how could that be prevented. Use logs.</p>

Kimber
03-01-2010, 12:52 AM
<p>Ya know I had this whole thing typed out with a few points to make and what not and well I just del it.  I think I can sum up what I was going to say in about 5 par in just a few sent.</p><p>Learn your toon BG is not PvE so your PvE DPS build will not work</p><p>Healers learn to heal its your job PvP hits are small and fast not big and slow so its not about spike heals its about HPS if you are not hitting over 100K in Gears you are not doing your job</p><p>Tanks learn to taunt guess what they work in PvP also get tougher you are wearing plate you should not be melting like a snowman in Mexico whan anouther tank is hitting you.  ( dont tell me its gear either I put on my T2 shard gear the other day just for fun and went int BG and still droped every tank I came accrossed from PvE )</p><p>Casters ya'll are OP so not going to say anything you are doing just fine other than some of you need to learn a good spell rotation but you are getting there ( at least the ones that I remember running into )</p><p>Scouts again its not PvE I will turn around and bash your head in learn to move dont just stand there hoping I will turn around and look at the tank again his taunts might be down.</p><p>Oh and talk to each other guys even those PvP guys talk to them too if they are on your team comuniction is key.</p>

Muraazi
03-01-2010, 01:05 AM
<p><cite>Aanadorn68 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Initially I played BG I absolutely hated it, for the same reason I detest PVP in general, it's all just about ganking.  A group of highly geared players just swarming over lower level and/or lower geared and/or lower number/solo players and tearing them apart.  Obviously by the number of PVE versus PVP servers we know what the clear majority of players like.  There are PVP servers for those who like that sort of thing, the two never met and the world was fine.  My initial impression of BG was log in, have about 10 seconds to buff, and just die and die and die again.</p><p>Today I gave BG another try and find myself liking it a bit more.  Was able to get on with some guildmates and we were able to get a bit farther.  But I noticed a vast discrepancy which makes me absolutely hate BG.  When we got on and played with PVE players it was a hell of a lot of fun, quite a blast.  The games were fairly even, and sometimes not even as one group might have had some great skill or tactics.  On the other hand when we were put up against a PVP server team they completely wiped us, and I mean completely.  Obviously, as has been stated before, these players have much superior gear to what PVE players have.  Now I'm not blaming it all on the gear, but you have players who have PVPed for 90 levels, they are used to ganking, they have their PVP strategies down to a t.  Whether it's skill or gear, they have them both.  Enter a PVE player who has never ever PVPed in his entire EQ lifetime, and is geared and skilled for PVE gameplay.  This is NOT fun to be wiped like this.  I played at least 30 matches today and this was the case every single time we were against PVP players.</p><p>Now I know exactly what the PVPers will say.  I know, improve my skills, improve my gear, etc etc.  But honestly the skills that a PVP player took months or even years to become second nature, are not going to come that easily to me, and in the meantime I can just look forward to getting ganked constantly.  Same with gear, on my server there is no mastercraft armor on the broker for me, and I guess I can just get on and get ganked until I save up the tokens, one at a time, for the fabled armor.  I'm not sure if I will learn any skills from just constantly getting killed, but I will sure as hell have all my PVP armor for use in BG.</p><p>So before all the PVPers jump in and tell me what a wimp I am, lets seriously consider that PVP and PVE should not be pitted against each other, or at least GIVE US THE CHOICE if we want to go against seasoned PVP players who have years more experience and more gear.</p><p>Devs, I know you are reading the feedback here.  You know there are a PVE players asking why they are being thrown into unfair and unfun situations against PVP players.  You know that whatever matching services you eventually hash out NEEDS to include the option to not play against PVP players.</p><p>OK PVP players, feel free to start the flame against me, I'm fully expecting it.  But the fact of the matter is that SOE is going to ruin BG unless they allow us this option.  It's something that could be fun, but is NOT.</p></blockquote><p>[Removed for Content] my post screwed up...</p><p>Determination use it to better yourselves. I know pvers have it, raid mobs require it initially.</p>

Nayawk
03-01-2010, 01:07 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Nayawk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You want pve players to learn, to gear up but ignore a perfectly sensible suggestion which would allow them to do so in a constructive manner.</p></blockquote><p>your not going to learn much about riding a bike without training wheels when you do nothing but ride a bike with them. Trial by fire is the anwser, When you get lit up, ask what happened, what you could do differently, how could that be prevented. Use logs.</p></blockquote><p>I obivously disagree. This is suppose to be a fun little side game not a lifestyle choice. You will lose players if its nothing but a gankfest... do you want the BGs to turn into the Arenas?</p><p>Because the more pve's you alienate with your trial by fire the quieter the BGs will get. The quieter it gets the longer the quene wait will get.. then more people, both pvp and pve won't bother because they don't want to wait 2 hours for a game. </p><p>To use another real world analogy - you don't teach a person to swim by throwing them into the 10foot deep end of the pool with frequent periods of holding their heads under, or you end up with alot of people with phobias. </p><p>Same goes for BGs.</p>

Muraazi
03-01-2010, 01:11 AM
<p><cite>Nayawk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Nayawk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You want pve players to learn, to gear up but ignore a perfectly sensible suggestion which would allow them to do so in a constructive manner.</p></blockquote><p>your not going to learn much about riding a bike without training wheels when you do nothing but ride a bike with them. Trial by fire is the anwser, When you get lit up, ask what happened, what you could do differently, how could that be prevented. Use logs.</p></blockquote><p>I obivously disagree. This is suppose to be a fun little side game not a lifestyle choice. You will lose players if its nothing but a gankfest... do you want the BGs to turn into the Arenas?</p><p>Because the more pve's you alienate with your trial by fire the quieter the BGs will get. The quieter it gets the longer the quene wait will get.. then more people, both pvp and pve won't bother because they don't want to wait 2 hours for a game. </p><p>To use another real world analogy - you don't teach a person to swim by throwing them into the 10foot deep end of the pool with frequent periods of holding their heads under, or you end up with alot of people with phobias. </p><p>Same goes for BGs.</p></blockquote><p>My brother learned to swim when he was 6 month old, my aunt threw him in a swimming pool. Instinct is there. 8P</p><p>Although she didn't hold his head under lol.</p>

BMouse
03-01-2010, 01:11 AM
<p><cite>Nayawk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Nayawk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You want pve players to learn, to gear up but ignore a perfectly sensible suggestion which would allow them to do so in a constructive manner.</p></blockquote><p>your not going to learn much about riding a bike without training wheels when you do nothing but ride a bike with them. Trial by fire is the anwser, When you get lit up, ask what happened, what you could do differently, how could that be prevented. Use logs.</p></blockquote><p>I obivously disagree. This is suppose to be a fun little side game not a lifestyle choice. You will lose players if its nothing but a gankfest... do you want the BGs to turn into the Arenas?</p><p>Because the more pve's you alienate with your trial by fire the quieter the BGs will get. The quieter it gets the longer the quene wait will get.. then more people, both pvp and pve won't bother because they don't want to wait 2 hours for a game. </p><p>To use another real world analogy - you don't teach a person to swim by throwing them into the 10foot deep end of the pool with frequent periods of holding their heads under, or you end up with alot of people with phobias. </p><p>Same goes for BGs.</p></blockquote><p>No one is forcing Pve'ers to bo BG's. It is an Optional part of the game.</p><p>EDIT: if People want to whine, and cry tears, about being rolled, trolled, and Ganked in a PvP instance then they should not do it.</p>

Notsovilepriest
03-01-2010, 01:12 AM
<p><cite>Nayawk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Nayawk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You want pve players to learn, to gear up but ignore a perfectly sensible suggestion which would allow them to do so in a constructive manner.</p></blockquote><p>your not going to learn much about riding a bike without training wheels when you do nothing but ride a bike with them. Trial by fire is the anwser, When you get lit up, ask what happened, what you could do differently, how could that be prevented. Use logs.</p></blockquote><p>I obivously disagree. This is suppose to be a fun little side game not a lifestyle choice. You will lose players if its nothing but a gankfest... do you want the BGs to turn into the Arenas?</p><p>Because the more pve's you alienate with your trial by fire the quieter the BGs will get. The quieter it gets the longer the quene wait will get.. then more people, both pvp and pve won't bother because they don't want to wait 2 hours for a game. </p><p>To use another real world analogy - you don't teach a person to swim by throwing them into the 10foot deep end of the pool with frequent periods of holding their heads under, or you end up with alot of people with phobias. </p><p>Same goes for BGs.</p></blockquote><p>Your anology is flawed, nobody is holding their head under the water or thowing them in the deep end. This is carebeared PvP, There are no added groups that may come, there are no people stalking you waiting for the moment you hit 51% life. That would fit your anology much better.</p><p>I think it's been said before...Seperate can not be equal.</p><p>PvP'ers know things that PvE'ers do not, just playing PvE'ers is not going to fix that, but watching to see what the PvP'ers are doing or the method of which they do so will benifit much more than having headless chicken fighting...</p>

KatrinaDeath
03-01-2010, 01:15 AM
<p>To all the PvE'ers: Time and effort will make you better. Also like mentioned before... Talk to PvP'ers who have been doing this for years. There are some who will help you mostly because when you get thrown into our 5man we want you to be able to perform.</p>

Nayawk
03-01-2010, 01:21 AM
<p><cite>BMouse wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>No one is forcing Pve'ers to bo BG's. It is an Optional part of the game.</p></blockquote><p>You are missing the point.  BG isn't suppose to be some personal exstension of Naggy/Vox. </p><p>It's suppose to be a place where pve's who don't want to live in a pvp open world can have a blast through a fun little mini game to while away some spare time.   Yes pvpers can join in the fun but it's obviously aimed mostly at pvers, because its a way to bring pvp into the pve world. Pvpers don't need to have pvp added as the whole [Removed for Content] place is pvp.</p><p>I certainly am not whining. I don't care if i lose I'm not that competative never have been, and I will continue to play at my own pace and frankly put up with the poor pvp sod who has ended up on a pve mix team yelling abuse.  But alot of people won't and I personally don't want to see BGs fail.</p>

Demonwi
03-01-2010, 01:25 AM
<p>Anyone who reads my site knows that I am not a fanboi, but posts like this are the kind of things that kill MMOs. The devs put a lot of work into this, not to mention money (I have a feeling the xpac money went into this given the content I've seen thus far) and it gets old when people have to cry about every little thing that's done in an MMO.</p><p>Do you realize you play a game with less than 1 million subs? Do you realize not everyone queues up, and that if they made PVP with PVP and PVE with PVE that it would take you eight years to get into a game? I can understand that since there have never been battlegrounds before in EQ2 folks might not understand canned PVP from AoC, WoW, WAR, etc, but the devs have done a FANTASTIC job this time around (which I wish I could say about the xpac so far).</p><p>Just chill, get to 90, and farm your tokens in the meantime. Once everyone has toughness this issue will be moot.</p><p>These BGs are great. One is almost as good as the Conan equivalent (Ganak), the gears is [Removed for Content] fun, and the large one is the first time in a very long time that it's felt like Daoc RVR to me. Let's try not to knock it so much and learn how to ease into it and play.</p><p>If you don't like PVPing with PVP folks or people who like to PVP, then don't do it. Go play PVE. You have that option. And, no, I am not from a PVP server.</p><p>Demonwind</p><p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.angryguildleader.com" target="_blank">www.angryguildleader.com</a></p>

Notsovilepriest
03-01-2010, 01:27 AM
<p><cite>Nayawk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>BMouse wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>No one is forcing Pve'ers to bo BG's. It is an Optional part of the game.</p></blockquote><p>You are missing the point.  BG isn't suppose to be some personal exstension of Naggy/Vox. </p><p>It's suppose to be a place where pve's who don't want to live in a pvp open world can have a blast through a fun little mini game to while away some spare time.   Yes pvpers can join in the fun but it's obviously aimed mostly at pvers, because its a way to bring pvp into the pve world. Pvpers don't need to have pvp added as the whole [Removed for Content] place is pvp.</p><p>I certainly am not whining. I don't care if i lose I'm not that competative never have been, and I will continue to play at my own pace and frankly put up with the poor pvp sod who has ended up on a pve mix team yelling abuse.  But alot of people won't and I personally don't want to see BGs fail.</p></blockquote><p>Open World PvP died awhile back on PvP servers. It was just a zerg, They are giving you guys our exact PvP gear as the "BG" gear. You are being spared the life of a PvP server  already, It's set sized, not random encounter, amung other things. Real PvP pre expansion went something like this.</p><p><object width="480" height="387"><param name="movie" value="http://www.wegame.com/static/flash/player.swf?xmlrequest=http://www.wegame.com//player/video/Onyx_Vs_TG" /><param name="flashVars" value="xmlrequest=http://www.wegame.com/player/video/Onyx_Vs_TG&embedPlayer=true" /><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true" /><[Removed for Content]"application/x-[Removed for Content]" width="480" height="387" src="http://www.wegame.com/static/flash/player.swf?xmlrequest=http://www.wegame.com/player/video/Onyx_Vs_TG&embedPlayer=true" ></embed></object></p><div><a href="http://www.wegame.com/watch/Onyx_Vs_TG/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">www.wegame.com/watch/Onyx_Vs_TG/</a><a href="http://www.wegame.com/games/eq2/" target="_blank"></a></div>

Nayawk
03-01-2010, 01:37 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Do you realize you play a game with less than 1 million subs? Do you realize not everyone queues up, and that if they made PVP with PVP and PVE with PVE that it would take you eight years to get into a game? I can understand that since there have never been battlegrounds before in EQ2 folks might not understand canned PVP from AoC, WoW, WAR, etc, but the devs have done a FANTASTIC job this time around (which I wish I could say about the xpac so far).</p></blockquote><p>I'm certainly not saying spilt them up totally, infact is alot of these thread there have been many good suggestions. One being have a choice while you learn (this thread) , another taking the FPS ranking systems rookie/expert games etc.  </p><p>I don't want BGs to fail, because when they are good they are awesome even when I lose. But the more pve people that are put off by the gankfest the more you are looking at long queues.</p>

Muraazi
03-01-2010, 03:10 AM
<p><cite>Nayawk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>BMouse wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>No one is forcing Pve'ers to bo BG's. It is an Optional part of the game.</p></blockquote><p>You are missing the point.  BG isn't suppose to be some personal exstension of Naggy/Vox. </p><p>It's suppose to be a place where pve's who don't want to live in a pvp open world can have a blast through a fun little mini game to while away some spare time.   Yes pvpers can join in the fun but it's obviously aimed mostly at pvers, because its a way to bring pvp into the pve world. Pvpers don't need to have pvp added as the whole [Removed for Content] place is pvp.</p><p>I certainly am not whining. I don't care if i lose I'm not that competative never have been, and I will continue to play at my own pace and frankly put up with the poor pvp sod who has ended up on a pve mix team yelling abuse.  But alot of people won't and I personally don't want to see BGs fail.</p></blockquote><p>Don't try and fool yourself, if a pvper wasnt screaming in the mic when someone fails a pver would. That attitude is not pvp exclusive. And any game that has had battlegrounds has the same thing happen. It isn't and never will be the cute little mini game you are talking about. Even if it was only pvers... Elitism, rudeness, cockynes are all attitudes that come with games. Some people can't handle failure and like to point fingers, not only pvpers...</p>

Chiyoiche
03-01-2010, 03:37 AM
<p>i agree with many bits from this entire thread heh. me and my BF,both on AB, tried out BG for the first time. the first few rounds we were in gears, and the first few we ended up in the group with no healer lol. so i said screw it, im swapping to my healer and we tried again. we ended up playing in BGs for about 2.5 hours <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /></p><p>we actualy loved it alot more then we thought we would.but at times, hated certain aspects. i dont mind getting killed in PvP...thats why its called PvP. the whole point is to Kill the OTHER Person. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /> but the part that does irk me is when you are thrown into a group, of the ones who refuse to communicate, or just stand there to get their tokens. i think SOE, to remedy AFK token getters, they need to literaly pause the game when a person AFKs for more 30 seconds. boot them, them bring in a new non-AFK player to resume the battle. because clearly, if their going afk for more than a few seconds, then their probly unable, or unwilling to really participate.</p><p>true, PvPers know how to fight against other players better. its NOT just their gear. yea, gear helps. but its the SAME issue with PvE. its NOT just the gear. its how well you know your class, and your ability to adapt to the current situation. how can you adapt your best to survive? yea, some of us, arent as high DPS, but if your a healer or assisting class....ASSIST and HEAL <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /> just because its PVP. doesnt mean you can always throw out your playstyle. just adapt it. you have two tanks in your team? two healers? AWSOM! now use what you have and run with it, put a healer on the tanks, and ensure if you have what ever item, that your other healers is keeping your item holder alive. just adapt like you would in any in world fight vs a monster, or raid mob. if you have no healer, yep. its gonna hurt....alot. but even if you loose, you still get a token. you can at least try to see how long you survive, before your swatted to death. and try new things.</p><p>to me BGs, is pretty fun, and yes i am a RPer.No, i dont get to pvp much. but when i can, i sure have a blast. Battlegrounds is still new, and it surely needs alot of tweaking. and the option to decide wether or not you wished to play against the pvp servers is a good one. it would be a good way to let others ''cut their teeth''. i think that and the auto booting of the AKFers, would improve BGs alot.i think playing with them(the pvp servers) is entertaining at times. i find it quite amusing to be on my healer, and while im healing my team, im also killing members of the other team. ><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /> anyways, just my little oppinion of BGs. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p>

Horizons
03-01-2010, 04:11 AM
<p>Oh god, another thread like this ! People really hate us <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Snnake
03-01-2010, 05:05 AM
<p>I never have posted on the forums till now. I didn't agree with BG's in the begining, I thought it would be the end to another PvP server. After I saw that the gear was the same as PvP I felt as though I was slapped in the face. Here is something you can do to earn tokens win or lose. That is another discussion for later.</p><p>I understand what the PvE players are talking about when they say they are getting waylayed or rolled. It is hard to do a trial by fire (So to say) when you have guilds running stacked groups, just so they can get the tokens for the gear before it gets nerfed. I say that in looking to the past at alot of things that have been changed after the fact.</p><p>You all can learn alot from PvP players that will be helpful in BG's. I am also sure there are somethings we will gleem from you. I have alot of respect for players on either faction on the PvP server. I know that they are willing to help as much as possible to make it enjoyable for all. But it should be your choice as to who you play against. So yes I agree with being able to choose between PvE / PvE or PvE / PvP.</p><p>We don't get that choice in open PvP so it is hard for some to wonder why there are complaints. We are used to fighting 6 v 6 just to have it turn into a 6 v 12 or more. We have learned to adapt to that and try and survive. I do have to laugh about people complaining about a group ganking single or lower players. We have all been on that side. You need to think about that before you let your anger get away from you.</p><p>This to me is a cookie cutter zerg. It is safe PvP. You have set situations the only thing you need to adapt to is what the other team has vs yours. I wasn't going to try it out just because I didn't agree with it. I tryed it and found it enjoyable. Yes I have been on some winning teams but have also been on some that lost as well. Thats is just the way it goes.</p><p>Touchov</p><p>90 SK</p><p>Nagafen</p>

Aanadorn68
03-01-2010, 02:56 PM
<p>OK I heard everyones suggestions.  I bought 4 pieces of T1 mastercrafter armor bringing my toughness to 191.  Got together with some guildies and they all bought a couple of pieces, I think out scout bought a full suit.  We  discussed strategies amongst ourselves before zoning in.  Keeping the group together, staying out of the open, targeting the healer, stunning, etc., as best we could since this was the absolute first time any of us has every had even the slightest experience with PVP.  We are all diehard raiders and have seen endgame in PVE many times so we know how to play our classes.</p><p>Honestly I can't say there was much difference.  As a healer I felt as if I was stunned/stifled 99.9% of the time.  Sure I have a stun breaker, but it's on a 5 min timer, even tried tortoise shell, I would then just get 2-3 shotted.  The PVP mages put out an amazing amount of damage.  When it was PVE versus PVE it was pretty fun, when it was PVP vs PVE it was a complete slaughter, I think there is a reason the losing team gets one reward.</p><p>I'm willing to keep plugging away, and getting one shard at time towards some nicer armor.  But I'm just giving some honest feedback here, even though I will get flamed for it.</p>

Kiara
03-01-2010, 03:18 PM
<p><span style="text-decoration: line-through;">There's already a thread discussing this.</span></p><p><span style="text-decoration: line-through;">As I said there, the gear issue will sort itself out shortly as will the learning curve for an entirely different playstyle.</span></p><p><span style="text-decoration: line-through;">Please keep the discussion in the other thread, but be aware, that just like threads calling for someone to be nerfed, threads calling for the segregation of players also tend to get people's knickers in a twist, so be polite <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></span></p><p><span style="text-decoration: line-through;">Thank you.</span></p><p>Going to go ahead and reopen this topic for discussion as the OP has made a case for it remaining it open.  Should this thread devolve into flames and cries of us vs them, it will be closed again <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Dojac
03-02-2010, 02:32 PM
<p>Battlegrounds IS PVP.  At this point you're just saying "No fair!  They're better than me."  I'll gtell you the same things the devs have been telling us on PvP servers for years.  If you have a problem with the PvP game mechanics ind a PvP solution to that problem.   So Stack your groups, learn the strats, get better.  I've seen alot of non-pvp guilds excelling in the battlegrounds and the vast majority of that success has to do with coordination as opposed to gear and PvP experience.</p>

slothmister
03-02-2010, 02:59 PM
<p>There are two HUGE problems PVE'ers have in a PVP enviroment....</p><p>1. Gear - the lv82 MC gear is not that far behind the lv80 PVP gear. Buy it, craft it, steal it but get it!!! The toughness will help.</p><p>2. PVP is NOT PVE. You are not fighting a scripted encounter where you know, more or less, what is going to happen.</p><p>In PVP anything can happen, tanks will taunt you to target them but then its the job of everyone else to retarget. People are real, epic encounters are not!</p>

Neskonlith
03-02-2010, 03:17 PM
<p><cite>slothmister wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>2. PVP is NOT PVE. You are not fighting a scripted encounter where you know, more or less, what is going to happen.</p><p>In PVP anything can happen, tanks will taunt you to target them but then its the job of everyone else to retarget. People are real, epic encounters are not!</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Yes, and also keep in mind that AA mirrors are a great investment as pvp AAs can be very different from pve AA choices depending on your class!</span></p>

bryan4171
03-02-2010, 03:30 PM
<p>Im am going to have to agree im on Antonica Bayle, we BG as a group in my guild, 4 out of 6 of us used to be on Naggy.  We have about a 65 to 70 percent win ratio.  Against any group.  We all use voice which i think is the biggest advantage we have.  If you can not communicate you can not win.  This goes for PVP or PVE groups.   So i guess what im saying is quit complaining here (communicating) and go complain in BG's at least we will hear ya. And give the Naggy's a break they did not design the BG's.   </p>