PDA

View Full Version : Running the Flag


TheSpin
02-27-2010, 05:26 PM
<p>It's just too easy for a flag runner to get away in CTF.   I won a game pretty much by myself earlier today because nobody caught me right as I grabbed the flag and with all the speedbuffs on if they can't catch me before I leave the flag area it's just too late.</p><p>I don't see runspeed as being too much an issue in the other 2 BGs, having high runspeed gives small boosts but generally won't make the difference whether you win or lose, but in CTF -- in particular if you're running with the flag -- it can become unreasonably difficult to catch someone in time.  I don't think runspeed buffs should be completely taken away, but 1 person shouldn't be able to steal the flag out from under the noses of 4+ people guarding the flag and then those 4 have no chance catching the flag runner all in a matter of 5 seconds. </p><p>I thik the flag runner needs to have their runspeed cap lowered,  you can't just give them a debuff that lowers the runspeed by X amount because I can get well over the 100% cap, so the cap itself would have to be lowered by flag runners.  That's the very least thing that should be looked at, but runspeeds overall in CTF could use some adjusting.  I think one possible solution would be to cut all runspeed buffs in CTF by 75%.  That way the fast runners would still have an advantage, which fits with their class description, but the advantage would be more reasonable and possible to overcome.  So base pathfinding would give 4% runspeed buff.  Sabretooth totems drop to around 14% etc.  And then put the cap at something like 25%</p>

feldon30
02-27-2010, 07:10 PM
<p>It was made 12 x 12 so you can set up a perimeter defense of 3-4 players to guard the flag.</p><p>Having trouble targeting the person? TAB</p><p>It's a non-issue.</p>

Notsovilepriest
02-27-2010, 07:33 PM
<p><cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Having trouble targeting the person? TAB</p></blockquote><p>Targetting Key -> Next Hostile PvP is what I use but yeah tab probally is ok in battlegrounds.</p>

TheSpin
02-27-2010, 07:45 PM
<p>I do believe that if nothing is done, in time many people will learn to deal with the speed mechanics etc, but I just don't believe runspeeds should vary by so much in battlegrounds.  Someone forgets a sabretooth totem and they can be totally screwed.</p><p>lowering the runspeeds overall would make the game more about group play and less about running around.  I'd say keep base runspeed as it is, and lowering all runspeed modifiers to 25% of what they currently are, including the cap, would be a good change.</p>

lollipop
02-27-2010, 09:01 PM
<p>Run speed is a talent some classes have. And also come ready. Why all the people crying to nerf this and nerf that just cause you cant do it. I want to tank like a plate tank. I think all chain or cloth wearing should have same mitigation as plate. Its just not fair they can take so many hits.</p><p>Also my tank want 20k nukes. its not fair classes can nuke that high in BG</p><p>Also My mage want heals. Why should only healers be able to heal.</p><p>Once I think about it...just give us everything.........................</p>

Foolsfolly
02-27-2010, 09:46 PM
<p>First of all, the targetting thing, I've seen several people using what I assume must be aoe de-target skills because it's absolutely impossible to target them with Tab, F8, or even clicking them directly. Such skills should really be disabled for flag carriers.</p><p>As to runspeed, I think simply forcing players into combat as long as they hold a flag would fix this.</p>

TheSpin
02-27-2010, 09:56 PM
<p><cite>lollipop wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Run speed is a talent some classes have. And also come ready. Why all the people crying to nerf this and nerf that just cause you cant do it. I want to tank like a plate tank. I think all chain or cloth wearing should have same mitigation as plate. Its just not fair they can take so many hits.</p><p>Also my tank want 20k nukes. its not fair classes can nuke that high in BG</p><p>Also My mage want heals. Why should only healers be able to heal.</p><p>Once I think about it...just give us everything.........................</p></blockquote><p>I AM one of the classes that can do it.  If you bothered reading my post perhaps you'd have seen that.   I think it's too easy for me to get close, pop my speed boost and give nobody a chance of catching me at all.   Literally if they don't stop me within the first 5 seconds, it's over.</p>

lollipop
02-27-2010, 10:43 PM
<p>Thats why they give players root and snare. Its teamwork lol.</p>

Foolsfolly
02-28-2010, 05:03 AM
<p>I can stack 200% snare on a target, and still these flag-runners escape me with ease. It's just not nearly effective enough.</p>

Xisi
02-28-2010, 06:21 AM
<p>Basically whoever has arasi bruiser wins.</p><p>Immune to CC, wind walk, speed up, fly from second floor, win.  No one can ever catch him.</p><p>I am avoiding that bg like plague now.</p>

Xisi
02-28-2010, 06:24 AM
<p><cite>lollipop wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Run speed is a talent some classes have. And also come ready. Why all the people crying to nerf this and nerf that just cause you cant do it. I want to tank like a plate tank. I think all chain or cloth wearing should have same mitigation as plate. Its just not fair they can take so many hits.</p><p>Also my tank want 20k nukes. its not fair classes can nuke that high in BG</p><p>Also My mage want heals. Why should only healers be able to heal.</p><p>Once I think about it...just give us everything.........................</p></blockquote><p>You are being abonoxous.  Racial should not decide the outcome of the bg.  Some races are just too effective in that BG. </p><p>Arasi windwalk, fly from second floor, speed up.</p><p>I heard racials should be just fluffy, not something that people choose in order to win a game.</p>

LivelyHound
02-28-2010, 08:50 AM
<p>Best tactic so far I've found for stopping this as a paladin with no snares is : knockdown Plonk yourself by the flag as the runner comes in to harvest it , hit your kd. Then dmg dmg kd dmg dmg kd. They usually die. If there is more than one flag runner incoming save the blue aoe kd for when they all arrive and have a backup dps kill em fast. Seems to be working so far except against well organised offensive teams.</p>

Techavb
02-28-2010, 10:16 AM
<p><cite>LivelyHound wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Best tactic so far I've found for stopping this as a paladin with no snares is : knockdown Plonk yourself by the flag as the runner comes in to harvest it , hit your kd. Then dmg dmg kd dmg dmg kd. They usually die. If there is more than one flag runner incoming save the blue aoe kd for when they all arrive and have a backup dps kill em fast. Seems to be working so far except against well organised offensive teams.</p></blockquote><p>Yeah that works until an illy comes in and starts mezzing everyone.</p>

Techavb
02-28-2010, 10:22 AM
<p><cite>TheSpin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I do believe that if nothing is done, in time many people will learn to deal with the speed mechanics etc, but I just don't believe runspeeds should vary by so much in battlegrounds.  Someone forgets a sabretooth totem and they can be totally screwed.</p><p>lowering the runspeeds overall would make the game more about group play and less about running around.  I'd say keep base runspeed as it is, and lowering all runspeed modifiers to 25% of what they currently are, including the cap, would be a good change.</p></blockquote><p>I say leave it as it is. There are plenty of ways to stop a runner. Might not be able to do it by yourself but that's why there are 12 players on a team.</p>

Jinoy
02-28-2010, 10:24 AM
<p>Classes with runspeed usually are gimped in other aspects. If the defending team lets them get to the flag, grab it and run out without being stopped or without securing the opposing flag while their team corners the other runner, I'll just say 'good job, scout' and "wake up, team". There is no need for a nerf or a change. Play, Learn and Adapt.</p>

Foolsfolly
02-28-2010, 01:19 PM
<p>Toughness makes it impossible to kill any decently geared opponent before they run away. If you bring in multiple defenders, then they just bring in multiple flag-grabbers and you have the exact same problem. There needs to be a practical way for 1 player to stop another before he gets away, else the whole game will soon boil down to everyone just running flags and not even trying to fight.</p><p>I say cancel out-of-combat runspeed buffs and toughness on anyone holding a flag.</p>

Ace235228
02-28-2010, 02:09 PM
<p>You ever stop a PvP Raid tank that gets the 100%+ in combat run speed from a druid? Yeah, I never did either.</p>

Ahlana
02-28-2010, 02:37 PM
<p><cite>Foolsfolly wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Toughness makes it impossible to kill any decently geared opponent before they run away. If you bring in multiple defenders, then they just bring in multiple flag-grabbers and you have the exact same problem. There needs to be a practical way for 1 player to stop another before he gets away, else the whole game will soon boil down to everyone just running flags and not even trying to fight.</p><p>I say cancel out-of-combat runspeed buffs and toughness on anyone holding a flag.</p></blockquote><p>Well there was something that helped.. but it leaked over into open world PVP.. When they fixed it for PVP it must have messed up in BGs lol. I am guessing they are tied together and they need to figure out how to fix it.</p><p>In BGs when you get hit it is suppose to put you incombat and drop all your run speed buffs. (Like it does when you engage in PVP Combat on Naggy). However that part leaked over to the live server and caused people to whine because they couldn't run away at will, when they fixed it, it must have reverted BGs back the same way.</p><p>I believe the intent was that if you got hit in a BG then your run speed buffs were gone... period.</p>

Faith_heals
02-28-2010, 04:35 PM
<p>Ive played several toons. Sk with deathmarch Fea run speed wards and avoid all dmg up. Still teams have stopped me with almost full set toughness. Just learn to play together. I hate that people who cant play run to the forums nerf this so I can be better. =/</p><p>Also I am PVE server. Learn pvp tatics from the PVP people. Once ya learn and work together you can do it!</p>

Piccolo
02-28-2010, 05:39 PM
<p>nerf glide and gnomish jumping boots in Ganak. peeps just grab the flag and jump onto the building so no one can reach them.</p>

LefiloToE
02-28-2010, 09:01 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>nerf glide and gnomish jumping boots in Ganak. peeps just grab the flag and jump onto the building so no one can reach them.</p></blockquote><p>This is understandable. Nerfing runspeed is just babies complaining and really makes no sense at all.</p>

Faith_heals
02-28-2010, 09:11 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>nerf glide and gnomish jumping boots in Ganak. peeps just grab the flag and jump onto the building so no one can reach them.</p></blockquote><p>ranger/warlock/wizard/pets/conjy/necro/ scouts with a bow/fighters with a bow.</p><p>true not many ways to reach them =/</p>

Faith_heals
02-28-2010, 09:45 PM
<p>oo could also use a brusier. Port to em and drag em back lol.</p>

Foolsfolly
02-28-2010, 10:11 PM
<p>Or just buy your own gnomish jumping boots. They're 5g on the broker my server.</p>

KatrinaDeath
02-28-2010, 10:34 PM
<p><cite>Foolsfolly wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Or just buy your own gnomish jumping boots. They're 5g on the broker my server.</p></blockquote><p>Both "Team Red" and "Team Blue" can obtain these. Naggy/Vox players have been using these boots along with at least 20 other items that help in strange ways.</p><p>Daily Tip: Brock's Thermal Shocker is castable on the run. Helps when someone starts running when they are at 5%.</p>

TheSpin
02-28-2010, 10:55 PM
<p>I'm sure people can learn to deal with the runspeeds as they are and adjust tactics.  I guess I'll leave it at that for now.  I don't mind being able to outrun everyone and cap the flag almost every time my speed buff is up.</p><p>Maybe slightly increasing the time it takes to pick up the flag, and then adding a clicky to capture the flag at your own base would be a better solution.  Increases your chance slightly of catching the sneaky runners when the grab it, and then gives you another second to catch em in their base before they score.  Then you can't blame it on fairness or skill, it's just the way the game works.</p>

InstaCler
02-28-2010, 11:58 PM
<p>A tactic or ability is not balanced by the mere fact that it is possible to stop that ability or tactic.  If it is inordinately difficult to stop and/or easy to execute, it might not be balanced.</p><p>Right now, I think the grab and run is too easy.  The payoff is high (lots of points that are very hard to get otherwise, occupy the attention of multiple enemies), the risk is low (one member of team temporarily out), and the skill required to execute the tactic is negligible (just run!).   Possible to stop? Yes, sometimes.  Balanced? No.</p>

Faith_heals
03-01-2010, 12:04 AM
<p>put a caster on each top side. they can see them coming and cast on them and most of the time kill the runner before they reach the entrance.  Keeping the flag safe is not putting 3 toons ontop of the flag and wait.</p><p>Put person at entrance with range, add a bruiser at the flag to drag back when they run. Have paly at flag with casters at the top so they can holy ground when they try to harvest the flag.</p><p>Think of it as war. If you where at war would you hole up inside with 3 people. and send the rest of the forces to the middle and have no idea whats coming from the sides?</p>

Megavolt
03-01-2010, 12:06 AM
<p>I'm sure just disabling the racial run speeds in the BG would be fair enough all the way around. I know disabling certain abilities are possible due to the fact they felt we shouldn't have group fd there(fd forces the flag to drop so a faster player can pick it up).</p>

Adba
03-01-2010, 12:10 AM
<p><cite>Faith_heals wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Think of it as war. If you where at war would you hole up inside with 3 people. and send the rest of the forces to the middle and have no idea whats coming from the sides?</p></blockquote><p>Made me giggle.. it is so true though <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Really need to have some on the lookout and not just a few stacked by flag..</p>

Xisi
03-01-2010, 03:46 AM
<p><cite>InstaCleric wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>A tactic or ability is not balanced by the mere fact that it is possible to stop that ability or tactic.  If it is inordinately difficult to stop and/or easy to execute, it might not be balanced.</p><p>Right now, I think the grab and run is too easy.  The payoff is high (lots of points that are very hard to get otherwise, occupy the attention of multiple enemies), the risk is low (one member of team temporarily out), and the skill required to execute the tactic is negligible (just run!).   Possible to stop? Yes, sometimes.  Balanced? No.</p></blockquote><p>Best rationale here.</p>

Katanalla
03-01-2010, 12:50 PM
<p>Another fun one, is that you can jump in from the side circle cut out and just drop down behind flag, sometimes unnoticed, and they don't even know you're there until the text comes up that you took it, then sprint the F outa there. Also I wish we could make our own CTF / Klak games with house items /sigh</p>

Thinwizzy
03-01-2010, 01:00 PM
<p>If one or two players is beating you, maybe the problem is with your team.  I have done alot of capture the flag matches, and I have never seen a problem with not being able to stop one or two people from capping all the flags.  I have seen plenty of people try to use their speed to run away from their team and capture the flag, but all that accomplishes is their team is now short one or two players.</p><p>This is a total non-issue.  Learn to adapt.  This isn't a raid mob that does the same thing every time, stop trying to make it one.</p>

Abstract
03-02-2010, 08:14 AM
<p><strong>unfortunately, its pretty much always gonna be your team's fault. MOST of the people going into BG dont have the slightest clue of what to do or how to do anything. 90% of them dont and probably wouldnt ever use clickies or anything. . . . so most PUG's are gonna suck.</strong></p><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" /></p>

Kyaaadaa
03-02-2010, 08:21 AM
<p>To go into any kind of PvP without clickables such as speed buffs or potions is asking for disaster. Temporary enhancers are a lifesaver and heartbreaker. Find them, get them, use them.</p><p>As for catching a person with the flag, something I've learned is to set an easy-to-hit key with Target Previous Hostile PC. For me, its my spacebar. Running with WASD and thumb on the space, you can flick between any number of targetable PCs in the matter of a second, grab the closest, and own his face, proceed to your next victim. If one person is running to a perimeter of 3-4 people and making it out alive, they're either fkin amazing with buffs and stifles/roots, or you're completely incapable of looking with your eyes.</p>

Naggasaki
03-02-2010, 08:53 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>lollipop wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Run speed is a talent some classes have. And also come ready. Why all the people crying to nerf this and nerf that just cause you cant do it. I want to tank like a plate tank. I think all chain or cloth wearing should have same mitigation as plate. Its just not fair they can take so many hits.</p><p>Also my tank want 20k nukes. its not fair classes can nuke that high in BG</p><p>Also My mage want heals. Why should only healers be able to heal.</p><p>Once I think about it...just give us everything.........................</p></blockquote><p>You are being abonoxous.  Racial should not decide the outcome of the bg.  Some races are just too effective in that BG. </p><p>Arasi windwalk, fly from second floor, speed up.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">I heard racials should be just fluffy, not something that people choose in order to win a game.</span></p></blockquote><p>LOLOL!</p><p>Oh, wait, you're being serious. Then why the Fark would I want a Ogre Shadowknight? Or a Barbarian Guardain for that matter. Seriously? Part of the thing that makes an MMO an MMORPG and not a First Person Shooter (actually had someone ask what FPS was) is that you combine things to make your game experience DIFFERENT than the one I'm having. This is PvP. If it floats, smack the moth. If it sprints, snare the kitty, if it evades....well...'target previous hostile PvP' ftw?</p>