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View Full Version : Either Drop Nagafen from BGs or NERF THEIR PROC GEAR


Deebeme1
02-27-2010, 04:56 AM
<p>please stop them from ruining the BGs with their BS gear.</p>

tweety1972
02-27-2010, 04:58 AM
<p>hehe. this one's gonna get moved <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>it's not the gear as much as the playstyle that makes a big difference in BG.</p>

rareyrare
02-27-2010, 05:24 AM
<p>I understand your frustration with the proc gear, that fear proc on healers is quite annoying. My suggestion to you is to adapt. There are several ways to make yourself immune to fear, try using those. And please don't say, "You mean I have to carry around Anti-fear pots?" Welcome to OUR world.</p>

Siphar
02-27-2010, 08:30 AM
<p>I was waiting for these to come....</p><p>heheh....</p>

Siphar
02-27-2010, 08:33 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>hehe. this one's gonna get moved <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /></p><p>it's not the gear as much as the <strong>playstyle</strong> that makes a big difference in BG.</p></blockquote><p>I mentioned this before.</p><p>It's a fact that a lot of PvE players are playing PvP style for the first time (and duels do not count nor does the old arena due to the rule set), therefore, you have to expect a learning curve, one which nagafen players have been on for some years...</p><p>Like I said elsewhere, its like soldiers versus civilians at the moment in the BG's. Completely diff play style...</p>

Azol
02-27-2010, 08:49 AM
BG restricted gear... problem solved.

Grayspirit
02-27-2010, 09:27 AM
<p>THEIR GEAR IS RUINING MY ONLINE EXPERIENCE</p>

Lather
02-27-2010, 09:29 AM
rok pvp jewelry is a huge advantage

Cigam
02-27-2010, 10:04 AM
<p>I had someone cast a deagro on me and I lost target .... fix this or I will have to start posting in all CAPS!!</p>

Ahlana
02-27-2010, 10:19 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>rok pvp jewelry is a huge advantage</blockquote><p>Maybe but that is what they are building tokens for.. BG Gear and Jewelry.</p><p>Most Bluebies don't understand that there is Mastercrafted BG gear that will help their survivability and so they come to the boards to cry instead.</p><p>Just like most Bluebies didn't want to believe that Naggy was going to be better equipped and prepared for BGs then them. I mean they have been dueling for years now and arena battles... ! They should be just as good if not better than us (in their eyes) and when they turned out not to be (they will get better) they needed something to blame and simply being unprepared was not an option (because that is what is going on).</p><p>Some time and preparing will make a world of change for them.</p>

PeaSy1
02-27-2010, 11:15 AM
<p><cite>Ahlana wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>rok pvp jewelry is a huge advantage</blockquote><p>Maybe but that is what they are building tokens for.. BG Gear and Jewelry.</p><p>Most Bluebies don't understand that there is Mastercrafted BG gear that will help their survivability and so they come to the boards to cry instead.</p><p>Just like most Bluebies didn't want to believe that Naggy was going to be better equipped and prepared for BGs then them. I mean they have been dueling for years now and arena battles... ! They should be just as good if not better than us (in their eyes) and when they turned out not to be (they will get better) they needed something to blame and simply being unprepared was not an option (because that is what is going on).</p><p>Some time and preparing will make a world of change for them.</p></blockquote><p>Most of this bg jewelry doesnt even compare to rok stuff by a long shot.....they should add this stuff to bg merchants.</p>

Ahlana
02-27-2010, 11:52 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ahlana wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>rok pvp jewelry is a huge advantage</blockquote><p>Maybe but that is what they are building tokens for.. BG Gear and Jewelry.</p><p>Most Bluebies don't understand that there is Mastercrafted BG gear that will help their survivability and so they come to the boards to cry instead.</p><p>Just like most Bluebies didn't want to believe that Naggy was going to be better equipped and prepared for BGs then them. I mean they have been dueling for years now and arena battles... ! They should be just as good if not better than us (in their eyes) and when they turned out not to be (they will get better) they needed something to blame and simply being unprepared was not an option (because that is what is going on).</p><p>Some time and preparing will make a world of change for them.</p></blockquote><p>Most of this bg jewelry doesnt even compare to rok stuff by a long shot.....they should add this stuff to bg merchants.</p></blockquote><p>They can add it I doubt anyone would care.. But I don't believe it is the jewelry that is making the difference. We have been dealing with it forever and it is how prepared we are that lets us counter it fairly easy. DeAggro; use previous PVP target key. Priest Fear? Fear Pot or Crusader in group with Fear Immunity AA.</p><p>Those are the two really annoying pieces (the others are nice but really don't matter much) and we know how to get around them. Just having the jewelry is not going to help them (infact since they have no toughness their survivability will still be in the toilet). They need to be prepared to face them and part of that is MC BG armor til they get better.</p><p>If we were to give every bluebie the RoK PVP jewelry today I doubt the results would be any different in the BGs... it will be a month or more before they start truly adapting.</p><p>EDIT: That is another thing that I have noticed, PVPers know who to bring. We are making groups and going in. I haev fought only one preformed group in my BGs so far and you know what.. it was all Naggy Players, the Blues simply do not know who to bring with em or they are simply going in 100% blind and then can't figure out why they lost to a well formed PVP group /shrug</p>

Lovidic
02-27-2010, 01:39 PM
<p>I specifically go after the targets without Nagafen or Vox over their head. I have a lot easier time staying on the fleshy back side of some of these pve players.</p><p>You can tell some blue server players have adapted pretty quickly where others just kinda stand in one place and let you kill them. They'll learn.</p><p>Heres a tip:Every time you hit this healer you get feared? Stop hitting them. Dont aoe around them either. If its the first hit you've had against the healer expect to get feared. Subsequent hits seem to proc fear much more seldomly, though I have seen it twice in a row any number of times. You can pretty much count on a fear every 30 seconds or so. And again the first hit almost always procing it.</p><p>But at any rate, if you cant cure the fear dont hit him. Depending on the healer, if they've got fear procs you're going to have a heck of a time taking them down anyway, might as well focus on squishies.</p>

PeaSy1
02-27-2010, 03:43 PM
I got a good lol yesterday i was up on one of the water spouts in ganak at the base on my illy and this tank from pve walked up to me jigged around adjusting himself to successfully knock my off i coulda moved but i had to let him do it cause it looked like he worked hard to line that up <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Metal_Starz
02-27-2010, 08:01 PM
<p> Please stop flooding BG with BS blubie players. It's starting to get quite boring. How long is it going to take them to figure out it is them and not the gear?</p>

Cynicisim
02-27-2010, 08:15 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>I got a good lol yesterday i was up on one of the water spouts in ganak at the base on my illy and this tank from pve walked up to me jigged around adjusting himself to successfully knock my off i coulda moved but i had to let him do it cause it looked like he worked hard to line that up <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote><p>ROFL.</p><p>Let them do what the rest of us do on Naggy.. adapt. Farm the gear you will need to position yoursefl for a better fight. Simply because it says "fabled" or "lvl 90" dose not really mean it is the best gear for pvp. Know your equipment.</p><p>It will take time to adjust to pvp and naggy players have had years more experience. Of course you could always roll a toon on naggy and expeirence real pvp<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Or at least log to naggy and inspect some players. I find they put a lot of research into their gear and carry around boxes of back up gear just in case the fight warrants it.</p>

Alazarz
02-27-2010, 11:46 PM
<p>Onyx is a perfect example of how to compete without the lvl 80 pvp gear.. sure some of them have a few pieces (aquired recently) But look see how they massacre everyone in their "blue" gear in BG..  so dont start making excuses about gear this and gear that.. learn pvp mechanics and stop QQ'n or [Removed for Content].. noone forces you to Q up for BG..</p><p>Unfortunatley i made the mistake earlier and self Qued for 6v6 and i ended up with a stacked "blue group".. their tank had 6set tso / ring of repulsion / ring of anashtis will / avatar charms / xebnoks band / mark of the dragon slayer / jewel of any colors / gozak helm / yheska belt...THE WORKS.. every group member had equivalent gear.. We got rolled from stupidity and not gear.. you guys have to realize "we" ar not some mob on an blue server..</p><p>If anything.. Blue servers should not be allowed in BG.. if they wanted/liked pvp they woulda joined a pvp server in the first place.. Bg should be for people on pvp servers that want fair fights (because thats what u get in BG) and dont wanna worry about getting rolled by an x2/3/4 in the wild..</p><p>You guys are really complaining about BG!? cmon.. try questing / leveling in an open world pvp server then come back and rethink this bs thread..</p><p>i do understand you frustration in that you actually think its the gear.. but tbh.. it's team work / groupsetup / knowing pvp mechanics.. alot of these guys that are rolling you blue guys are people that have been pvp'n for ages. just gonna throw that out there.. just sayin</p><p>So, just have fun and stop whining about something you are not forced to do (but yet choose to)..YOU DO HAVE CONTROL OVER competing in BG or not.. unlike some of us naggy players who sometimes do not have a choice in the matter..sometimes pvp is forced upon you..</p><p>btw we have MASSIVE aggro range..be careful</p><p>One more thing.. Get Owned..</p><p>regards</p>

eqaddictedfool
02-28-2010, 02:29 AM
Being from PVE not sure if i should be agreeing with these points or offended =P. I very well understand i suck. And thats what makes it so much fun. Mobs are gonna run around and make you chase them around the map. They stand in one place. I avoided the PVP servers because of the communities they tend to bring. Prime example being the pvp boards and recenetly some stuff in here. But i dont feel any of my losses have been because of my gear. I hold my grounds fairly well i think. Most of the losses i have seen were from not being wellc oordinated. Oh and isnt there like a crafted pvp armor we can get?

Prophesy
02-28-2010, 02:46 AM
<p>Ok, going to help you blue guys out, check your aa spec.  Put max into sprint / run speed.  You guys are always out of power soon as i see your sprint go up.  Oh, and im very surprized how many of you think you need to kill the tank first in a 6v6.  First off good luck with that, but why not try killing the warlocks/wizzys first and formost b/c they will wipe your entire group then the healer.  Its not about gear.  You can get your (censored) handed to you by a (censored) geared toon that actually knows how to pvp.  Oh and deagroes make you clear your selected target.  Good thing for you in battlegrounds you just tab we actually have to use a pvp target setup.  that being said if you have gear or aa that makes you proc a deagro, that is a constant clearing of target.  Hard to kill you when we have to keep re targeting.  If you going to be any good, youll start praying that aa mirrors had 3 specs just like we asked for repeatably.  But it doesnt, your pve spec isnt going to work well, but whatever, play how you want, i enjoy the easy updates. </p>

Hamervelder
02-28-2010, 02:58 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Being from PVE not sure if i should be agreeing with these points or offended =P. I very well understand i suck. And thats what makes it so much fun. Mobs are gonna run around and make you chase them around the map. They stand in one place.<strong> I avoided the PVP servers because of the communities they tend to bring. Prime example being the pvp boards and recenetly some stuff in here. </strong> But i dont feel any of my losses have been because of my gear. I hold my grounds fairly well i think. Most of the losses i have seen were from not being wellc oordinated. Oh and isnt there like a crafted pvp armor we can get?</blockquote><p>That's precisely the reason why I only played on Venekor for ~3 months when PvP first came out, and then I left.  I got tired of people acting like pubescent little boys.  I deal with enough children on a weekly basis, and don't need to log into a video game to deal with adults acting like children.</p>

Torrin
02-28-2010, 07:18 AM
<p>I'm sorry but the absolute best thing i've seen yet is the bot group that signed up for BG on Ganak.</p><p>That was some seriously funny stuff!  Now it wasn't your typical grind mobs for plat bot group, this was one person playing like 3 characters 2 chain AF'ing the tank.. and this person some how thought he could run across the map and get the flag over and over and over and over.</p><p>The funniest part is if you hit the Tank, of course the healer and warlock on AF went into action.. but if you hit either the healer or warlock they wouldn't do a [Removed for Content] thing lol  I had the most fun mez'ing the Tank and killing the other two lol</p><p>Now on to serious non-bot fights.. I'm sorry PvErs but you came to a gun fight with a pea shooter.  Gear is a massive difference, I can shred through most of you like you're a grey mob and I'm just a troub.  Hell i've had top damage at 387k in a 12v12 BG! Tell me how a Troub does that kind of damage when the next closest to me is a Warlock at barely 90k?</p><p>it's also adapting. I've been playing PvP since a month after Nagafen and Venekor was released. You guys have been playing PvP (BGs) for a week.</p><p>You'll learn how to PvP, you'll get equivalent gear (okay the priest fear item is damned annoying i agree) and you'll be able to compete.  Until then less complaining and more smashing keys.</p><p>Remember, the harder you smash them the more DPS you do in PvP!</p>

Shade Slayer
02-28-2010, 07:26 AM
<p>I suspected it would be like this. It's not the gear, it's skill. Also, demeanor on pvp isn't so bad. The 1-9 channel is annoying, but you can easily filter out the immature kiddies. I think that's just an excuse for people who tried pvp and couldn't take it. Yeah, it's brutal, but it's why Nagafen is destroying the other servers. It's what we do every day against each other.</p>

Armawk
02-28-2010, 07:31 AM
<p>Im not bothered by the gear generally, and will myself get bg gear and kick your nagafen behinds, but if there are a lot of very useful items (proc jewellery seems to  be the main one) that is simply unavailable to players from some servers then that is of course entirely unfair and if you defend it then you dont want a fair fight do you?</p>

Ahlana
02-28-2010, 08:53 AM
<p><cite>shaunfletcher wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Im not bothered by the gear generally, and will myself get bg gear and kick your nagafen behinds, but if there are a lot of very useful items (proc jewellery seems to  be the main one) that is simply unavailable to players from some servers then that is of course entirely unfair and if you defend it then you dont want a fair fight do you?</p></blockquote><p>I think they should release all of T8 PVP gear to BGs for level 80-89 both TSO armor and RoK jewlery. No reason not to. Let people spend their tokens on that stuff I am all right with it. I honestly thought it would be that way.</p><p>Level 90 has its own gear and the 80-89 would be able to get the T8 gear. Maybe SoE will add it</p>

Siphar
02-28-2010, 09:43 AM
<p>Maybe PvE servers should also be banned from wearing any avatar gear then because of how difficult it is to get on the pvp servers compared to the PvE servers..</p><p>Contested avatars on pvp are infinitely more difficult to kill on pvp servers with hostile pvp showing up after 5 minites...</p>

Taamerlane
02-28-2010, 10:21 AM
<p>this is my favoritested thread ever.</p>

Naggasaki
02-28-2010, 10:25 AM
<p><cite>shaunfletcher wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Im not bothered by the gear generally, and will myself get bg gear and kick your nagafen behinds, but if there are a lot of very useful items (proc jewellery seems to  be the main one) that is simply unavailable to players from some servers then that is of course entirely unfair and if you defend it then you dont want a fair fight do you?</p></blockquote><p>Fair fight? How fair is a Shadowknight kicking in a Warlocks teeth? It's never a 'fair' fight. It never has been, nor will it ever be, a fair fight.</p><p>My good Sir,(and/or Ma'am) I appreciate your determination and I salute your desire to better your skill. However, understand that even if it were not 'PvP' gear that we were wearing into Battlegrounds it would be other items that we took in. Take for example, the Shard of Hate/Shard of Fear charm combo, is it fair that defilers and coercers can AoE fear without a way to counter it? Potions are also amazing, we carry them nearly EVERYWHERE we go...even just to the corner market. Again, I respect your desire and determination but (not trying to be a horeses behind) research some gear you already have access to and bring THAT to the table instead of the 'It's not fair' attitude. I hope to play with/against you soon.</p><p>*edit* Nayanissa says "roll a warden"</p>

Jerma
02-28-2010, 04:36 PM
<p>I dont think anyone needs a nerf.  However i do think that the amount of tokens required to get the pvp gear should be reduced.  Gear makes a huge difference whether your pvp or PVE.  When a battle starts between one side that has full pvp gear and one that isnt, makes it one sided.  Having said that i dont thinks that is wrong for them to have it, they are after all froma pvp server.  make it so it dont take so long to get the token gear.  Reduce the requirements by 1/3 should suffecient.  People say its all about skills, well lets get the same gear and see who has better skills!!</p>

Armawk
02-28-2010, 04:38 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>shaunfletcher wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Im not bothered by the gear generally, and will myself get bg gear and kick your nagafen behinds, but if there are a lot of very useful items (proc jewellery seems to  be the main one) that is simply unavailable to players from some servers then that is of course entirely unfair and if you defend it then you dont want a fair fight do you?</p></blockquote><p>Fair fight? How fair is a Shadowknight kicking in a Warlocks teeth? It's never a 'fair' fight. It never has been, nor will it ever be, a fair fight.</p><p>My good Sir,(and/or Ma'am) I appreciate your determination and I salute your desire to better your skill. However, understand that even if it were not 'PvP' gear that we were wearing into Battlegrounds it would be other items that we took in. Take for example, the Shard of Hate/Shard of Fear charm combo, is it fair that defilers and coercers can AoE fear without a way to counter it? Potions are also amazing, we carry them nearly EVERYWHERE we go...even just to the corner market. Again, I respect your desire and determination but (not trying to be a horeses behind) research some gear you already have access to and bring THAT to the table instead of the 'It's not fair' attitude. I hope to play with/against you soon.</p><p>*edit* Nayanissa says "roll a warden"</p></blockquote><p>Understand that I know all about PvP, played it for years, decided in the end it was not the game I wanted in open world.. I like the BGs as it gives a chance to play some without it dominating  your play time and style. 80% of the advantage is PvP experience and tactical group work, only a small part is gear. The gear part will of course fade with time, as I guess will the group part as naggy people stop playing it 24/7. I just want it to thrive long term not die because noone who isnt a hardcore PvPer takes part.. if people dont come and keep coming it will not work will it?</p><p>On point, unfair is it being literally impossible for players from one server to get something useful (that fear proc for example is pretty damned useful!) players from other servers do get, whichever way around that is. Anyone can play a shadowknight, a coercer, even a warden (assuming they have no standards) so thats not relevant.</p>

Cloakentuna
02-28-2010, 04:40 PM
<p><cite>Xaviour wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Onyx is a perfect example of how to compete without the lvl 80 pvp gear.. sure some of them have a few pieces (aquired recently) But look see how they massacre everyone in their "blue" gear in BG..  so dont start making excuses about gear this and gear that.. learn pvp mechanics and stop QQ'n or [Removed for Content].. noone forces you to Q up for BG..</p><p>Unfortunatley i made the mistake earlier and self Qued for 6v6 and i ended up with a stacked "blue group".. their tank had 6set tso / ring of repulsion / ring of anashtis will / avatar charms / xebnoks band / mark of the dragon slayer / jewel of any colors / gozak helm / yheska belt...THE WORKS.. every group member had equivalent gear.. We got rolled from stupidity and not gear.. you guys have to realize "we" ar not some mob on an blue server..</p><p>If anything.. Blue servers should not be allowed in BG.. if they wanted/liked pvp they woulda joined a pvp server in the first place.. Bg should be for people on pvp servers that want fair fights (because thats what u get in BG) and dont wanna worry about getting rolled by an x2/3/4 in the wild..</p><p>You guys are really complaining about BG!? cmon.. try questing / leveling in an open world pvp server then come back and rethink this bs thread..</p><p>i do understand you frustration in that you actually think its the gear.. but tbh.. it's team work / groupsetup / knowing pvp mechanics.. alot of these guys that are rolling you blue guys are people that have been pvp'n for ages. just gonna throw that out there.. just sayin</p><p>So, just have fun and stop whining about something you are not forced to do (but yet choose to)..YOU DO HAVE CONTROL OVER competing in BG or not.. unlike some of us naggy players who sometimes do not have a choice in the matter..sometimes pvp is forced upon you..</p><p>btw we have MASSIVE aggro range..be careful</p><p>One more thing.. Get Owned..</p><p>regards</p></blockquote><p>Having stakced groups such as many of the bluebies/Onyx has > troughness gear.  Especially if there is a sorceror, summoner, or both in the group.</p><p>Pre-made group SHOULD beat a PUG 10/10 times.  They should make it so PUGs only go against PUGs and let the pre-made groups fight each other.</p>

jam3
02-28-2010, 04:51 PM
<p>id consider dropping nagafen if every wiz/warlock from the pve servers didn't have amazing gear and destroy lol</p>

Kiara
02-28-2010, 04:53 PM
<p>No one needs nerfing.</p><p>1)  Nagafen players are typically highly skilled in the area of PvP... since that's sort of what they do all the time.</p><p>2)  There is MC gear specifically for the BG scenarios that will add to your survivability.</p><p>3)  There's going to be a learning curve.  It's an entirely different style of play and takes getting used to.</p>

Metal_Starz
02-28-2010, 05:03 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I dont think anyone needs a nerf.  However i do think that the amount of tokens required to get the pvp gear should be reduced.  Gear makes a huge difference whether your pvp or PVE.  When a battle starts between one side that has full pvp gear and one that isnt, makes it one sided.  Having said that i dont thinks that is wrong for them to have it, they are after all froma pvp server.  make it so it dont take so long to get the token gear.  Reduce the requirements by 1/3 should suffecient.  People say its all about skills, well lets get the same gear and see who has better skills!!</p></blockquote><p>Amount of tokens reduced??!!? [Removed for Content]  It used to take us 400-450 tokens to get one piece and the writs we had to do were</p><p>a pain in the butt compared to now. If you can't spend a day getting your full set of gear from BG you just need to quit the</p><p>game. The only way it can get easier for you is if the just give it to you in your bags.</p>

Horizons
02-28-2010, 05:59 PM
<p>Epiclulz thread is epiclulz</p>

Imoke
02-28-2010, 09:35 PM
<p>When you mess around with the bulls, you're gonna get the horns. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" /></p><h3><a class="l" href="http://frankthetank.wordpress.com/2006/11/03/you-mess-with-the-bulls-you-get-the-horns-nba-preview-2006-07/"><em></em></a></h3>

screenid
03-01-2010, 12:25 AM
<p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" />  Let them stay... and their PROC Gear...</p><p>I have to agree ..it is a different play style...<strong>and I am loving it</strong>...their Gear is only a small part..THEY know how to kill other toons... </p><p>We PVEers ........... well we will learn..and soon DOMINATE!!!!!!  (EVIL LAUGH)</p><p>Anyway..I love when they are on my team...<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /> </p>

swedago
03-01-2010, 12:33 AM
<p><cite>Deebeme1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>please stop them from ruining the BGs with their BS gear.</p></blockquote><p>I am on a pve server same as you, but I also played on Nagafen for 18 months when it launched in 2006.  70th was the level cap at the time, and I doubt very much that your week in BG getting ganked by a pvp server player even compares to the ganking they went through to get theirs.</p><p>The PvP servers earned their pvp gear.  Stop whining and earn yours.</p>

swedago
03-01-2010, 12:38 AM
<p><cite>Kiara wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>No one needs nerfing.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000; font-size: small;"><strong>There is MC gear specifically for the BG scenarios that will add to your survivability.</strong></span></p></blockquote><p>One comment on have on this Kiara...  To get the recipe book you need 40k Kerra Crafter Faction..  I have done every quest I could find and am at 7500 positive.  the daily quest gives about 500 faction..  I need 22500 more faction, so in 45 days I will be able to craft armor with toughness on it lol.</p><p>May I make a suggestion to add the BG tradeskill recipes to the BG Vender?  That way people can earn their recipes in a more reasonable way, or add more faction quests to the Kerra Isle Crafters =)</p>

Notsovilepriest
03-01-2010, 12:48 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kiara wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>No one needs nerfing.</p><p><span style="font-size: small; color: #ff0000;"><strong>There is MC gear specifically for the BG scenarios that will add to your survivability.</strong></span></p></blockquote><p>One comment on have on this Kiara...  To get the recipe book you need 40k Kerra Crafter Faction..  I have done every quest I could find and am at 7500 positive.  the daily quest gives about 500 faction..  I need 22500 more faction, so in 45 days I will be able to craft armor with toughness on it lol.</p><p>May I make a suggestion to add the BG tradeskill recipes to the BG Vender?  That way people can earn their recipes in a more reasonable way, or add more faction quests to the Kerra Isle Crafters =)</p></blockquote><p>Isle of Mara also has a recipe for less gear with decent toughness to tide you over till then IIRC</p>

Horizons
03-01-2010, 12:49 AM
<p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: medium;"><div><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><strong><em></em></strong></p><p>Having stakced groups such as many of the bluebies/Onyx has > troughness gear.  Especially if there is a sorceror, summoner, or both in the group.</p><p>Pre-made group SHOULD beat a PUG 10/10 times.  They should make it so PUGs only go against PUGs and let the pre-made groups fight each other.</p></blockquote></div></span></p>

swedago
03-01-2010, 01:03 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kiara wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>No one needs nerfing.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000; font-size: small;"><strong>There is MC gear specifically for the BG scenarios that will add to your survivability.</strong></span></p></blockquote><p>One comment on have on this Kiara...  To get the recipe book you need 40k Kerra Crafter Faction..  I have done every quest I could find and am at 7500 positive.  the daily quest gives about 500 faction..  I need 22500 more faction, so in 45 days I will be able to craft armor with toughness on it lol.</p><p>May I make a suggestion to add the BG tradeskill recipes to the BG Vender?  That way people can earn their recipes in a more reasonable way, or add more faction quests to the Kerra Isle Crafters =)</p></blockquote><p>Isle of Mara also has a recipe for less gear with decent toughness to tide you over till then IIRC</p></blockquote><p>Will take a look, thanks.... </p><p>Also, can you translate what Horizon said in English please since he is in Onyx as well? =)</p>

jam3
03-01-2010, 01:04 AM
<p>im suprised they auto turn off /anon and stuff in the bg, on the pvp server everyone is anon but good pvpers can target you and know within an instance what class are you are based on a few buffs</p><p>the biggest advantage pvpers have is they know how to counter or try to counter many different group set ups and how to effectively main assist one person, almost any time i lose or die in a bg is when my group is overloaded with a warlock/wizard combo or someone using elemental toxicity on us</p>

Fluffyhairball
03-01-2010, 08:18 AM
<p>I been doing lot of PUG's just for the fun of it and the BIG diffrence is that PvE ppl dont talk and if you try to talk to them most of them still randomly runs around getting killed.</p><p>They really need to start talking when pvping ACT dose nothing for you =)</p><p>And you guys really need to learn to move heh i did have little lol moment my self when 3 PvE toons got fusioned away =)</p><p>Love Fluffy</p>

Cabel
03-01-2010, 09:01 AM
<p><cite>Kiara wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>No one needs nerfing.</p><p>1)  Nagafen players are typically highly skilled in the area of PvP... since that's sort of what they do all the time.</p><p>2)  There is MC gear specifically for the BG scenarios that will add to your survivability.</p><p>3)  There's going to be a learning curve.  It's an entirely different style of play and takes getting used to.</p></blockquote><p>here, here!</p><p>I totally agree.  I'm from Najena, btw.</p>

Jasuo
03-01-2010, 09:26 AM
<p>There's absolutely nothing wrong with the pvp gear they wear, it's more to do with pve players not wanting to adjust and continue to play like they're fighting brainless mobs.  Almost every premade pvp group my group rolled against wasn't really that difficult to steamroll once we adjusted our gear and strat, just takes practice.</p>

Costa
03-01-2010, 11:04 AM
<p><cite>Kiara wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>No one needs nerfing.</p></blockquote><p>WRONG</p><p>I'm sorry but i've planted my TSO pvp geared and mythed Pally on top of a Wiz from Vox who was probably geared the same. I was auto attacking him for about 150 with spells doing a few hundred damage more. He then lands a nuke plus dots and i see 50% of my health go and yet i haven't budged 10% of his.</p><p>I'm not saying they need a nerf but i think their ability to withstand melee damage needs a serious looking at. I've had a similar issue fighting a lock on my zerk in open pvp and just couldn't do any real damage on him either. These guys are clothies. If they wanna pop mana shield to give them survivabilty is fine but to not take melee damage is broken some where and it needs fixing.</p><p>Other than that BG's are fun but watching bluebies run around not really sure what they are doing is fairly ammusing untill your grouped with a load. Then like others have said, the inability to assist or listen to simple requests/commands over VC is making it very frustrating. If they wanna learn they need to listen. I'm sure there are pleanty that do but in PvP VC is a major bonus if people use it.</p>

Armironhead
03-01-2010, 11:28 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kiara wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>No one needs nerfing.</p></blockquote><p>WRONG</p><p>I'm sorry but i've planted my TSO pvp geared and mythed Pally on top of a Wiz from Vox who was probably geared the same. I was auto attacking him for about 150 with spells doing a few hundred damage more. He then lands a nuke plus dots and i see 50% of my health go and yet i haven't budged 10% of his.</p><p>I'm not saying they need a nerf but i think their ability to withstand melee damage needs a serious looking at. I've had a similar issue fighting a lock on my zerk in open pvp and just couldn't do any real damage on him either. These guys are clothies. If they wanna pop mana shield to give them survivabilty is fine but to not take melee damage is broken some where and it needs fixing.</p><p>Other than that BG's are fun but watching bluebies run around not really sure what they are doing is fairly ammusing untill your grouped with a load. Then like others have said, the inability to assist or listen to simple requests/commands over VC is making it very frustrating. If they wanna learn they need to listen. I'm sure there are pleanty that do but in PvP VC is a major bonus if people use it.</p></blockquote><p>No one needs a nerf.  But soe seriously broke pvp when it introduced toughness and changed stats and resists.  Where the error actually resides is anybody's guess.  But doing such major fundemental rule changes all at once is well beyond soe's comepetence level.</p>

Quicksilver74
03-01-2010, 11:32 AM
<p>I just want to say that Nagafen players tend to be among the worst I've encountered in Battlegrounds, so based on my experience, the gear they have has nothing to do with it.   They just aren't that good.  =P</p>

Armironhead
03-01-2010, 11:41 AM
<p><cite>Kiara wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>No one needs nerfing.</p><p>1)  Nagafen players are typically highly skilled in the area of PvP... since that's sort of what they do all the time.</p><p>2)  There is MC gear specifically for the BG scenarios that will add to your survivability.</p><p>3)  There's going to be a learning curve.  It's an entirely different style of play and takes getting used to.</p></blockquote><p>Eq2 pvp is not a high skill game.  There is not a high learning curve.  The problem doesnt derive from the lack of skill of the player base.  Rather, the problem resides in that soe broke pvp with the introduction of toughness, and the stat and resist change.  Soe was warned repeatedly that first impression many would take away from the bgs was that it was the most unfair, unbalanced, zergy form of pvp in eq2.  Instead of addressing problems with the matchmaker and looking to correct the errors introduced by their rule changes, soe pushed a halfbaked product live.  Also soe failed to address testers concerns about ways to gimick the system such as afkers.  Now almost every match you play is a blow out for one side or the other.  The determining factors are not skill but rather 1) are you up against a premade; 2) did the matchmaker screw you by not giving you a healer or giving the otherside too many healers; 3) is your tank or healer or main dps afk?  Also as a special reward, you never know when a bg will eat your toon.</p><p>So instead of talking about skill and blaming the playerbase for not being learned enough, how about addressing the fundemental problems written by soe into the game that make it unfair and imbalanced?</p>

Dorsan
03-01-2010, 12:20 PM
I find all these threads extremely funny. I was in a PUG today and we were getting decimated badly. My groupmates started crying how the opponents have PvP gear because they are from a PvP servers and refused to go down. The funny thing is... The opponents were actually bluebies in a stacked group. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Sambone
03-01-2010, 12:44 PM
<p>Yea these posts tend to make me laugh when people cry about pvp gear etc.  I'm new to pvp myself.  Own and get owned. It can go either way almost any time.  Depends who I meet haha.</p><p>I see no reason to nerf any pvp player's gear. More often than not, if you're getting owned you're doing something wrong.  After a few weeks of playing things will even out a bit more in the gear department and that shouldn't be such an issue, though the whole concept still heavily revolves around tactics and communication.  If you have no tactics and poor communication your gear isn't gonna matter much.</p>

Thinwizzy
03-01-2010, 12:46 PM
<p>EQ2 may not be a terribly difficult game, but that doesn't mean there isn't a plethora of completely terrible players.</p>

Elepian
03-01-2010, 12:49 PM
<p>[Removed for Content].  I got no worries here with Bgs, no problem going against naggy players myself as I've experienced PvP but it wouldn't be a bad idea to perhaps do a smart group method, similar to the dungeon finder but the Smart Group method would work for Battlegrounds and enable players to fill in groups properly, and thus in that way balance things out a bit.  </p><p>I'm a wizzy on Kithicor Server, and do BGs alot of the time.  Before I was getting pwned , I have since then switched back to the same AA spec I have on my PvP Wizzy and now Be they Naggy/Vox or another PvE server, if I get you before you see me, your goin down ><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />   </p><p>Seriously though Devs? Consider the Smart Group thing. It would make things go smoother in Klak and Smugs as well as Ganak and balance things to where the match isnt over so fast.  Make it to where the Smart Group finder places queuers into a group where they can help out, For instance, Battlefields of Ganak Raid x2.  Group one has a tank , healer, and the other classes are say, dirge , warlock , and swashbuckler.. But group 2 on the other hand is nothing but squishies and scouts.  Well as many of us squishies know we can't take as many hits as our beloved Meatshields, ( unless specced right but at a loss of DPS. ) and we die much faster if we have no healers at all, so why not place a healer and tank in group 2? Then we are balanced and life is sweet, I'm not necessarily saying to only put so many scouts and mages in a raid, thats just how it happens, but at least provide groups with the essential Tank And Healer into their group before filling out all the spots with just DPS.  </p>

Cusashorn
03-01-2010, 12:57 PM
<p>I haven't tried out BG yet, but even I think that Nagafen shouldn't have access to it. Let them obtain BG gear in thier own way by staying on their server... At least for the first month. After the PVE players have a good enough time to gear up themselves and get used to fighting each other, let Nagafen join in to add a little bit more challenge.</p>

EvilAstroboy
03-01-2010, 01:02 PM
<p>Nagafen peeps seem to die as easy as anyone else in PvP. Theres a lot of them in the BGs too, running around as cannon fodder.  We got steamrolled by an Onyx premade, but thats all about coordination.</p><p>Im not too concerned about the gear, because I understand my class and I have T4 gear which can still destroy someone in full PvP gear if I shut them down first.  But to claim that its strategy over gear is a bit of a joke, strategy has a role, but if you put someone in T2 gear up against a T4 or PvP geared player nothing will stop the slaughter.</p><p>Which brings me to the main point, obviously the matchmaker is a big fat fail.  It was supposed to match toughness and pick appropriate classes.  PvE players new to battlegrounds with no toughness are getting put against teams with full toughness gear.  Not to mention the tons of battlegrounds were one team has 4-5 healers and the other has none.  Gears shouldnt even run unless theres at least one healer on each side since you have to hold an item that makes you take damage.</p><p>Old tier PvP gear should be limited in BGs. Im sure you can pick up some of the mastercrafted gear youve been raving about.</p>

Wytie
03-01-2010, 01:05 PM
<p>This thread makes me lulz.</p><p>I have seen many PVE players do very well in BG. It seem fairly even at 90 BG's.</p><p>Now the 80-89 BG's the pve players get destoryed by the pvp peeps. Just from what I can tell over the weekend.</p>

Geothe
03-01-2010, 01:21 PM
<p><cite>Kiara wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>No one needs nerfing.</p><p>1)  Nagafen players are typically highly skilled in the area of PvP... since that's sort of what they do all the time.</p><p>2)  There is MC gear specifically for the BG scenarios that will add to your survivability.</p><p>3)  There's going to be a learning curve.  It's an entirely different style of play and takes getting used to.</p></blockquote><p>Yes, these facts are blatantly obvious, and well known, but have nothing to do with the OPs intentions with the thread I think.OPs issues, if I'm understanding correctly, is the fact that players from PvP servers are able to bring in gear which have effects that no one else is able to aquire through BG merchants.-THAT- is a massive imbalance in the system and will continue to be problematic in the BGs.PvE players would have no problem if it was just a "learning curve" or a "gearing up curve" but when it is due to items that are 100% non-aquireable by players on PvE servers, yeah, those items should either be disabled in BGs or similar effects added to BGs merchants for tokens.</p>

mrsma
03-01-2010, 01:35 PM
<p>BG = Awesome Laugh time.</p><p>Join PUG's just for the fun of it !!!  Watching some muppet pick up the relic and run off only to watch them die from the ticks - epic. </p><p>A lot of the Bluebie servers who have not pvp'ed just have a steep learning curve. As most did who started on Naggy.</p><p>From a healer point of view - when it comes to the Relic BG game for instance - All is do is type in chat - "Get in VC or stay near me. If you have the relic stick to me like glue, and we will win.  Most times ;o)</p><p>And this thread = Fuuuuuuuny !!!</p>

Ahlana
03-01-2010, 01:37 PM
<p><cite>Geothe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kiara wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>No one needs nerfing.</p><p>1)  Nagafen players are typically highly skilled in the area of PvP... since that's sort of what they do all the time.</p><p>2)  There is MC gear specifically for the BG scenarios that will add to your survivability.</p><p>3)  There's going to be a learning curve.  It's an entirely different style of play and takes getting used to.</p></blockquote><p>Yes, these facts are blatantly obvious, and well known, but have nothing to do with the OPs intentions with the thread I think.OPs issues, if I'm understanding correctly, is the fact that players from PvP servers are able to bring in gear which have effects that no one else is able to aquire through BG merchants.-THAT- is a massive imbalance in the system and will continue to be problematic in the BGs.PvE players would have no problem if it was just a "learning curve" or a "gearing up curve" but when it is due to items that are 100% non-aquireable by players on PvE servers, yeah, those items should either be disabled in BGs or similar effects added to BGs merchants for tokens.</p></blockquote><p>Or just add the items themselves as purchasable for use by PVE players. The Current BG Token Armor is Level 90 no reason not to introduce the Level 80 stuff for a bit cheaper for those that want it.</p><p>And before some other PVPer comes in claiming that it isn't a good idea.. Please I was there I got my gear and jewelry it didn't take hard work or anything, add the items to the BG merchant and be done with it. Then it will just be a learning curve and gearing up curve to deal with.</p>

Sydnee
03-01-2010, 01:59 PM
<p>Don't let naggy have bg gear?...because pvp gear is easier to get? lol Funny funny stuff.</p><p>I thought it was only naggy complaining about the fact that basically players are farming gear from BG because its soooo easy to get.  Sorry to break the news, but in world pvp, you don't get a consolation prize for just showing up to the fight. </p><p>Make pvp gear usable only in world pvp.....BG gear only usable in BG, problem solved.</p>

Kiara
03-01-2010, 03:23 PM
<p><span style="text-decoration: line-through;">And we're done <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></span></p><p><span style="text-decoration: line-through;">The gear issues will level out and everyone will have +toughness.  At that point it becomes about skill.</span></p><p><span style="text-decoration: line-through;">We're not going to have threads calling for nerfs to others, all that does is lead to drama and flaming.</span></p><p>My bad.  It's been pointed out to me that I missed the underlying point of this thread.  My fault for skimming through.</p><p>Please return the thread to the topic of discussing the disparity between proc gear available only on PvP servers and what can be obtained through BG tokens and steer away from the other issues.</p><p>Thanks!</p>

hailskins2006
03-01-2010, 05:55 PM
<p>I don't understand all this whining about gear or keeping peeps from Nagafen out of BGs.  I'm from a PVE server, and found that the Naggy folks died just as much as the PVE folks.  I certainly didn't notice that the Nagafen toons had any distinct advantage - we massacred some Nagafen groups, and got pwnd by peeps like a solid Onyx group.  Just sack up and kill, take less time posting on the boards about perceived inequality and more time getting better.</p><p>If you want to complain about anything, let's complain that the BG armor bought with the three kinds of tokens costs WAYYYYYYYY too much - it will take weeks to get geared up on that stuff.</p>

Thinwizzy
03-01-2010, 06:56 PM
<p><img src="http://www.bearotic.com/img/2009/09/zombieland-tallahassee-nut-up.jpg" width="500" height="375" /></p>

stargazer5678
03-01-2010, 06:57 PM
<p><cite>hailskins2006 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm from a PVE server, and found that the Naggy folks died just as much as the PVE folks.  I certainly didn't notice that the Nagafen toons had any distinct advantage - we massacred some Nagafen groups, and got pwnd by peeps like a solid Onyx group.</p></blockquote><p>Nice try.. a guy from Nagafen disguised as PvE dude. And obviously coming from PvE server it's natural to know who Onyx is, oh wait..</p>

Ahlana
03-01-2010, 07:00 PM
<p><cite>stargazer5678 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>hailskins2006 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm from a PVE server, and found that the Naggy folks died just as much as the PVE folks.  I certainly didn't notice that the Nagafen toons had any distinct advantage - we massacred some Nagafen groups, and got pwnd by peeps like a solid Onyx group.</p></blockquote><p>Nice try.. a guy from Nagafen disguised as PvE dude. And obviously coming from PvE server it's natural to know who Onyx is, oh wait..</p></blockquote><p>Um he could have played them in a BG.. read various posts on the PVP board trying to better himself, or various other things in order to learn players and their guilds. I find it funny that a PVEer does well and the not so good PVE crowd turns on him lol.</p><p>I have fought some very well played PVE people so to call him a liar because he knows who the top guild on the PVP server is more than just funny.</p>

Guld_Ulrish
03-01-2010, 07:07 PM
<p><cite>hailskins2006 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If you want to complain about anything, let's complain that the BG armor bought with the three kinds of tokens costs WAYYYYYYYY too much - it will take weeks to get geared up on that stuff.</p></blockquote><p>LOL! I got 3 picec in 2 days... And I have not even got 1 from real worl pvp. The BG set is way to easy to get.</p>

Knight Ryders
03-01-2010, 07:28 PM
<p>Yes we need the end gear to be able to come close to match them but how many tokens are we actually going to need to get a full set to counteract what they have, and to get all the tokens we have to play and die a load just to get one messley token. How about put toughness on the PVE raid/shard gear to give us a chance instead of this crappy mastercrafted stuff that makes us lose a shed load of stats. Soon it could be just the PvP servers in BGs, maybe give them a server of their own until we have enough time 2 gear up and get used to PvP.</p>

Slaspen
03-01-2010, 07:46 PM
I like it as it is, it's more challenging this way. Imho the pvp folks have dealing with theese things for years, all we other "bluebies" have todo is adapt.

TerrorFirmer
03-01-2010, 07:48 PM
<p><cite>Guld_Ulrish wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>hailskins2006 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If you want to complain about anything, let's complain that the BG armor bought with the three kinds of tokens costs WAYYYYYYYY too much - it will take weeks to get geared up on that stuff.</p></blockquote><p>LOL! I got 3 picec in 2 days... And I have not even got 1 from real worl pvp. The BG set is way to easy to get.</p></blockquote><p>I played over the weekend and only got enough tokens to get one piece (the dreadnaut cloak).  In that time I played over 15 hours of battlegrounds/waiting for battlegrounds to fire.  I won about half of the matches.  I don't see how you got 3 pieces in 2 days unless you were in a premade group and won every single time and played 24 hours a day.</p><p>For the average casual player (which I am not) I am sure it will take two weeks just to earn one piece of armor if they do 4 or 5 battlegrounds per day.  In this time, hardcore players will be decked out in toughness gear and will be unkillable, making every single game a loss at one token.  So now it will take 4-5 weeks to get one piece of battleground gear.  4-5 weeks of getting steamrolled over and over again.  Those who also benefit from the PvP gear on their servers have an even greater advantage over casual players.  Isn't SOE trying to attract more casual players?  I thought that was the whole idea.  Now you not only have to get to 90/250 but you also need to spend months farming battlegrounds for gear in order to not die in one hit from a conjuror.</p>

Leko
03-01-2010, 07:53 PM
<p>People the PvP gear will only get you 1/4 of the way to being viable in Battlegrounds.  While you are working towards the tokens needed for Battlegrouns armor I strongly suggest you watch and learn from the players on the PvP servers.  PvP is not about armor its about the tactics of the fight. </p><p>Move, Standing there button mashing it out will only end with you dead.</p><p>Learn to use you debuffs fast</p><p>Detaunt is your friend.</p><p>Trust me keep practicing, Everything is difficult before it becomes easy.</p>

SacDaddy420
03-01-2010, 08:08 PM
<p>I have no problem winning matches in any of the BG. </p><p>It's not the gear its your tactics.</p>

Notsovilepriest
03-01-2010, 09:20 PM
<p><cite>TerrorFirmer wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Guld_Ulrish wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>hailskins2006 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If you want to complain about anything, let's complain that the BG armor bought with the three kinds of tokens costs WAYYYYYYYY too much - it will take weeks to get geared up on that stuff.</p></blockquote><p>LOL! I got 3 picec in 2 days... And I have not even got 1 from real worl pvp. The BG set is way to easy to get.</p></blockquote><p>I played over the weekend and only got enough tokens to get one piece (the dreadnaut cloak).  In that time I played over 15 hours of battlegrounds/waiting for battlegrounds to fire.  I won about half of the matches.  I don't see how you got 3 pieces in 2 days unless you were in a premade group and won every single time and played 24 hours a day.</p><p>For the average casual player (which I am not) I am sure it will take two weeks just to earn one piece of armor if they do 4 or 5 battlegrounds per day.  In this time, hardcore players will be decked out in toughness gear and will be unkillable, making every single game a loss at one token.  So now it will take 4-5 weeks to get one piece of battleground gear.  4-5 weeks of getting steamrolled over and over again.  Those who also benefit from the PvP gear on their servers have an even greater advantage over casual players.  Isn't SOE trying to attract more casual players?  I thought that was the whole idea.  Now you not only have to get to 90/250 but you also need to spend months farming battlegrounds for gear in order to not die in one hit from a conjuror.</p></blockquote><p>Mistake #1, Buying a low toughness piece when you are having survivability issues.</p>

Adba
03-01-2010, 10:00 PM
<p>Seriously, if you can't take the heat in the Battlegrounds..  well uhm, eh, put on asbestos suits?</p><p>/chuckle</p><p>--</p><p>I haven't noticed any particularly deadly procs yet.. probably because if someone catches me I'm sorta dressed in napkins ripe for tearing anywho. I looked at what I had most kills of, and was surprised to see I have killed most scouts, is that my luck? or the scouts mistaking me as a squishy mage for an easy kill?</p><p>GOD knows I get ripped to shreds often when I take a wrong turn or forget to anticipate whatnot, then it's just back up and back into the game! help your team! and curse the healerless group and the person standing afk.. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/47941865eb7bbc2a777305b46cc059a2.gif" border="0" /></p><p>I am by no means a PvP'er at heart, and I think I'd grovel to actually "live" on a PvP server, but I do think it's fun in the BG's <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Please do NOT ever seperate the worlds, let us continue to meet the "real" PvP'ers in Battlegrounds, we learn a lot! if we <em>will</em> it..!</p><p>I haven't yet played Battlegrounds much, but already I have several Battlegrounds-Achievements and a handful of each tokens.. (81 Coercer, zero toughness gear)</p><p>"Death is but a doorway for a god!" (Shissar)</p><p>When you fall, don't lose courage, learn what tripped you and figure how to avoid it..</p>

Mwahaha
03-01-2010, 10:11 PM
<p>I just find it funny when people rage over dying in battlegrounds . . . I mean you don't lose anything, your KvD ratio isn't affected and you're going to get a token regardless. . so why so serious? </p><p>For the record I've seen both sides do this which suprises me.</p>

knightofround
03-01-2010, 10:26 PM
<p>The people who are saying that gear is not making a difference are full of it. I've only gotten 2 pieces of BG armor so far, and it made a VERY noticiable improvement in my BG performance.</p><p>Sure, Naggys might have somewhat of a leg up when it comes to PvP experience. I know I'm still learning how to taunt properly in PVP. But there are bad players on every server, even Nagafen. Its just that with a good 4-6 pieces of toughness gear, it doesn't matter how skilled you are, if the opposition doesn't have toughness gear you will faceroll them.</p><p>And please, don't bother with the "oh well, there's MC battlegrounds gear out there". The stats on that gear are bad, like two expansions ago bad. In that case you need up gimping your offense to get some decent defense...which doesn't improve your situation at all in BGs.</p><p>Don't get me wrong, I like that gear has such a significant impact upon PvP. What I don't like is that the Naggy people all had full sets right off the bat (due to exploiting stupid repeatables) while the rest of us have to work upwards.</p>

Irthos
03-01-2010, 11:25 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>People the PvP gear will only get you 1/4 of the way to being viable in Battlegrounds.  While you are working towards the tokens needed for Battlegrouns armor I strongly suggest you watch and learn from the players on the PvP servers.  PvP is not about armor its about the tactics of the fight. </p><p>Move, Standing there button mashing it out will only end with you dead.</p><p>Learn to use you debuffs fast</p><p>Detaunt is your friend.</p><p>Trust me keep practicing, Everything is difficult before it becomes easy.</p></blockquote><p>This.</p><p>I'm just jealous of the rings that proc fears//stuns//detargets.  Would pour hours into bgs to earn some of that stuff.  Not that its really that hard to deal with, anyone thats raided much, or heck, some heroic zones, can handle the dmg sheild fears (VS, anyone?)</p><p>I'm not gonna whine for nerfs, why would I?  Theres plenty of naggy and vox ppl that I've felled, and they've killed me too.  Name of the game, son.</p><p>Suggestions to add to the gear available?  Jewelry with procs on it, either dmg shield dets, or detrimental immunity procs.  I'd pay 300 tokens np for somethin like that.</p><p>Also, for real, Red Adorn slots on the BG armor.  That way the raiders that BG dont have to give up those juicy class bonuses.  For the PvP guys, too.</p>

Rothgar
03-01-2010, 11:36 PM
<p>I haven't kept up with the entire thread, but have you guys tried using the mastercrafted BG armor?</p><p>I've been playing my Warlock in battlegrounds and before I got the mastercrafted gear I was getting hit quite hard and didn't have much survivability.</p><p>I created an AA spec that's more defensive in nature and now I'm getting about 20% mitigation just from toughness on the mastercrafted set.  The amount of damage that I lose from these changes is insignificant compared to my survivability now.  You don't do much damage when you're dead.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Irthos
03-01-2010, 11:56 PM
<p>tbh I picked up a few pieces on testcopy, and while I survived a bit better I felt I gave up alot of kill-ability. Even then I kept my 2 piece TSO bonus for free stoneskin, so its still a trade-off. Now, the 90 BG armor seems pretty decent for BGs, but still, no Red Adorns sucks, man. And I'm a bard, so 5% psn trigger doesnt do crap for me.</p><p>edit:  Hi Roth!</p>

Anestacia
03-02-2010, 01:02 AM
<p>I made a full set of the MC armor and wear it in matches now.  I can defitantly tell a difference in my survivabilty.  Yes, damage output is quite a bit lower than on PVE but I think it just is a matter of adjusting playstyles, AA specs and mentality.  I play a necro inside the BGs and I still reach for my FD when I get low on life like that is going to make a differnce to a real person lol.  This is my first real bout of PvP and I am taking every match as a learning experince.  The MC stuff is decent enough to get you through your first round of tokens.  By the time I get a full BG fabled set I will be able to fully apreciate it.</p>

Orthureon
03-02-2010, 01:32 AM
<p><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I haven't kept up with the entire thread, but have you guys tried using the mastercrafted BG armor?</p><p>I've been playing my Warlock in battlegrounds and before I got the mastercrafted gear I was getting hit quite hard and didn't have much survivability.</p><p>I created an AA spec that's more defensive in nature and now I'm getting about 20% mitigation just from toughness on the mastercrafted set.  The amount of damage that I lose from these changes is insignificant compared to my survivability now.  You don't do much damage when you're dead.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Just wanted to point out that you are playing one of the "broken" classes atm. Capable of one (or perhaps 5 at most) shotting people (or whole groups) and soaking up massive amounts of damage from some broken mechanic. Before PVP armor can truly be evaluated we need anything that may be an error in design/mechanics fixed.</p>

Notsovilepriest
03-02-2010, 01:41 AM
<p><cite>knightofround wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The people who are saying that gear is not making a difference are full of it. I've only gotten 2 pieces of BG armor so far, and it made a VERY noticiable improvement in my BG performance.</p><p>Sure, Naggys might have somewhat of a leg up when it comes to PvP experience. I know I'm still learning how to taunt properly in PVP. But there are bad players on every server, even Nagafen. Its just that with a good 4-6 pieces of toughness gear, it doesn't matter how skilled you are, if the opposition doesn't have toughness gear you will faceroll them.</p><p>And please, don't bother with the "oh well, there's MC battlegrounds gear out there". The stats on that gear are bad, like two expansions ago bad. In that case you need up gimping your offense to get some decent defense...which doesn't improve your situation at all in BGs.</p><p>Don't get me wrong, I like that gear has such a significant impact upon PvP. What I don't like is that the Naggy people all had full sets right off the bat (due to exploiting stupid repeatables) while the rest of us have to work upwards.</p></blockquote><p>You couldn't be farther off. I have been in a few of the stacked Onyx groups people talk about...I have 100 toughness total, There was no exploit to get full sets of BG gear, There was toughness added to T8 PvP gear. It doesn't matter what your DPS is if you are dead, and you aren't going to solo DPS down the other group, especially if you are dead. If you need to live longer, wear the MC gear your DPS/healing/tanking is 0 while dead.</p>

Destriel
03-02-2010, 03:28 AM
<p><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I haven't kept up with the entire thread, but have you guys tried using the mastercrafted BG armor?</p><p>I've been playing my Warlock in battlegrounds and before I got the mastercrafted gear I was getting hit quite hard and didn't have much survivability.</p><p>I created an AA spec that's more defensive in nature and now I'm getting about 20% mitigation just from toughness on the mastercrafted set.  The amount of damage that I lose from these changes is insignificant compared to my survivability now.  You don't do much damage when you're dead.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>The BG gear from the Mara merchant isn't worth putting on if you have any kind of decent gear.  It does not have a lot of toughness, stats are bad, blue stats are bad, if I were to put on a whole set of this I would lose a TON of dps, group utility, etc.  If you are newly lvling and have no established gear and want to check out BG this is great, but for established players this gear is quite worthless.</p><p>I have not checked out the Kerra Island gear yet as I'm still building faction, I hope to find something a little more realistic.</p><p>To Orthureon - I have killed so many warlocks on my coercer in BG that I lost track.  1 on 1, in groups, from range, toe to toe, whatever.  Put em down quick, nothing to worry about.  I find conjies are WAY more dangerous because of Elemental Blast, and of course there are always the SKs.</p><p>I do find the zonewide procs exceptionally annoying tho, the stun proc off the cloak in MPS is terrible and there is a damage proc (something rain) that is zonewide as well, and kinda hurts.</p>

Muraazi
03-02-2010, 03:29 AM
<p><cite>Orthureon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I haven't kept up with the entire thread, but have you guys tried using the mastercrafted BG armor?</p><p>I've been playing my Warlock in battlegrounds and before I got the mastercrafted gear I was getting hit quite hard and didn't have much survivability.</p><p>I created an AA spec that's more defensive in nature and now I'm getting about 20% mitigation just from toughness on the mastercrafted set.  The amount of damage that I lose from these changes is insignificant compared to my survivability now.  You don't do much damage when you're dead.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Just wanted to point out that you are playing one of the "broken" classes atm. Capable of one (or perhaps 5 at most) shotting people (or whole groups) and soaking up massive amounts of damage from some broken mechanic. Before PVP armor can truly be evaluated we need anything that may be an error in design/mechanics fixed.</p></blockquote><p>Was gonna say the exact same thing lol.</p>

Anestacia
03-02-2010, 04:17 AM
<p>The zonewide proc does need to go.  That is going just a little too far.  Other than that I dont begrudge the PvP players.  A lot of them have years of practice and farming writs to get gear so of course they are going to be more skilled.  Give it a month when blue servers start getting full sets of the fabled gear and get some practice in and there will be some serious competition then.  I for one am GLAD Nagafen and Vox are allowed to play with us because everytime I get my butt handed to me I learn a little something new and can better defend and/or counter it next time.</p>

Kyaaadaa
03-02-2010, 05:21 AM
<p><cite>Anestacia wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>A lot of them have years of practice and farming writs to get gear so of course they are going to be more skilled.  Give it a month when blue servers start getting full sets of the fabled gear and get some practice in and there will be some serious competition then.</p></blockquote><p>This might end up being the case, but I for one doubt it. Nagafen players do not stop PvPing when BG ends, we continue throughout every minute, every second we game. There is never a time we don't have to look over our shoulder at our surroundings to see if another character is coming to eat our heads. Its becomes such an built in response to look for, feel out, and eliminate any other players. I went back to playing FFXI (a non PvP game) and had a hard time not searching around for enemy players. You will get practice in PvP, and you will become better, but I do believe that you're skills will dwindle every time you stop BGing, you will lose that edge (or at least dull it) that keeps Nagafen PvPer's on top.</p>

Notsovilepriest
03-02-2010, 05:29 AM
<p><cite>Kyaaadaa wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Anestacia wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>A lot of them have years of practice and farming writs to get gear so of course they are going to be more skilled.  Give it a month when blue servers start getting full sets of the fabled gear and get some practice in and there will be some serious competition then.</p></blockquote><p>This might end up being the case, but I for one doubt it. Nagafen players do not stop PvPing when BG ends, we continue throughout every minute, every second we game. There is never a time we don't have to look over our shoulder at our surroundings to see if another character is coming to eat our heads. Its becomes such an built in response to look for, feel out, and eliminate any other players. I went back to playing FFXI (a non PvP game) and had a hard time not searching around for enemy players. You will get practice in PvP, and you will become better, but I do believe that you're skills will dwindle every time you stop BGing, you will lose that edge (or at least dull it) that keeps Nagafen PvPer's on top.</p></blockquote><p>There are plenty of people on PvP servers that are not good at it, without a doubt PvE'ers once to get the hang of it will give a challenging fight, and some will still be bad, just like it is on every server.</p>

Kyaaadaa
03-02-2010, 05:36 AM
<p>Very possibly, I'm simply stating the notion that while there are those who are the obvious mop up PvP update, there are those who even a group of individuals shy away from in the field. I do not think that PvE players will become the terror inducing terrors that some PvP players are. I for one am not a great PvP player, but I also have to deal with it on a much more constant basis. Even horrible PvP players (by Nagafen standards) have an edge that is constantly tested, in and out of BG. The luxury to not Q up for BG and do some relaxing questing or farming is not ours to have, nor did we want it that way, since we did choose to play on a PvP server.</p><p>Please don't make it sound like I'm attacking the notion that PvE players will never amount to PvP players either, far from it, but I do hold that, in order for PvE players to attempt to become, and then hold, a position of PvP excellence, they will have to non-stop BG to keep their edge and their PvP skills. The longer and more frequently they do not BG, the less of a threat they will become to PvP server players.</p>

Naggasaki
03-02-2010, 05:51 AM
<p><cite>Kyaaadaa wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Very possibly, I'm simply stating the notion that while there are those who are the obvious mop up PvP update, there are those who even a group of individuals shy away from in the field. I do not think that PvE players will become the terror inducing terrors that some PvP players are. I for one am not a great PvP player, but I also have to deal with it on a much more constant basis. Even horrible PvP players (by Nagafen standards) have an edge that is constantly tested, in and out of BG. The luxury to not Q up for BG and do some relaxing questing or farming is not ours to have, nor did we want it that way, since we did choose to play on a PvP server.</p><p>Please don't make it sound like I'm attacking the notion that PvE players will never amount to PvP players either, far from it, but I do hold that, in order for PvE players to attempt to become, and then hold, a position of PvP excellence, they will have to non-stop BG to keep their edge and their PvP skills. The longer and more frequently they do not BG, the less of a threat they will become to PvP server players.</p></blockquote><p>I am notoriously trolling the chat channels on Naggy, but one thing I have seen since the introduction of BG is, what appears to be a flooding of people making 'pvp alts' on naggy. A lot of blubies investing a character slot to come over and see what the difference is. I respect that. This does give them a bit more of the ingrained 'scan' mentality after a few levels that they wouldn't obtain otherwise outside of battlegrounds. I NEVER underestimate the determination of blue server players. They will eventually learn, adapt and overcome. And in the end, potentially become better at their class in general. PvP has taught me more about my classes than PvE ever could have.</p><p>One more thing...90 SK lf BG group.</p>

Kyaaadaa
03-02-2010, 08:11 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I am notoriously trolling the chat channels on Naggy, but one thing I have seen since the introduction of BG is, what appears to be a flooding of people making 'pvp alts' on naggy. A lot of blubies investing a character slot to come over and see what the difference is. I respect that. This does give them a bit more of the ingrained 'scan' mentality after a few levels that they wouldn't obtain otherwise outside of battlegrounds. I NEVER underestimate the determination of blue server players. They will eventually learn, adapt and overcome. And in the end, potentially become better at their class in general. PvP has taught me more about my classes than PvE ever could have.</p><p>One more thing...90 SK lf BG group.</p></blockquote><p>Its not a statement of underestimation or lack of capacity to adapt to a PvP environment, but a statement of consistancy. Unless a blue server player continues to play his PvP alt (and this can go for anyone on any server), and continue to hone their PvP mentality  they will lose their capability to last in a savage PvP arena. I do agree that PvP is a valuable teacher, instilling lessons about adaptability and survivability that mobs with a scripted AI and set aggro radius can never teach. But lessons over time can decay until there is only a shell of what it once was. The perfect example would be the movie "Taken" in which Jean is taken advantage of by Bryan because of his "desk job". Lose your edge, that PvP mentality, and you will become a prey rather than the predator.</p><p>For those of you BGing for gear, take that to heart. Once you have your gear, you will be a force to be reckoned with... but if you don't keep your skills, your gear will only be a shiny piece of decoration on a corpse. I would have to say its a sorry sight for many people to see a powerful figure with mighty gear get dropped by a fool in less-than-epic equipment because the would-be hero forgot how to PvP.</p>

mrsma
03-02-2010, 09:07 AM
<p><cite>Kyaaadaa wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Anestacia wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>A lot of them have years of practice and farming writs to get gear so of course they are going to be more skilled.  Give it a month when blue servers start getting full sets of the fabled gear and get some practice in and there will be some serious competition then.</p></blockquote><p>This might end up being the case, but I for one doubt it. Nagafen players do not stop PVP'ing when BG ends, we continue throughout every minute, every second we game. There is never a time we don't have to look over our shoulder at our surroundings to see if another character is coming to eat our heads. Its becomes such an built in response to look for, feel out, and eliminate any other players. I went back to playing FFXI (a non PvP game) and had a hard time not searching around for enemy players. You will get practice in PvP, and you will become better, but I do believe that you're skills will dwindle every time you stop BGing, you will lose that edge (or at least dull it) that keeps Nagafen PvPer's on top.</p></blockquote><p>What <span style="font-size: x-small;"><em>Kyaaadaa</em> said 100% - Made me laugh <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" /></span></p><p><span style="font-size: x-small;">I have been playing on Naggy for about 2.5 years. Started on Naggy from day one in the game. Had a steep learning curve but was great fun.  So, anyways, a couple of months back I rolled on a PVE server to see what it was like. What was I missing?  After the starter Island I was in Mok running around doing a few quest and I noticed I kept panning round, looking for incoming PVP. I thought [Removed for Content] am I doing. It was then i realised that I really do belong on a PVP server. It is a different mind set totally.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: x-small;">For people that just want to quest, group up with friends, raid, dungeon crawl, whatever - great.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: x-small;">You get to the same thing on Naggy but you get the adrenalin pumping as well. Always having to look over your shoulder. You have your spell rotation ready depending on the situation. You have to anticipate what is going to happen before it happens. That is the fun part.  </span></p><p>My one aim at the moment in BG is to get my heal parse up to 1 million. Nearly there at 970k on the relic BG instance <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" /></p>

Aanadorn68
03-02-2010, 10:00 AM
<p><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I haven't kept up with the entire thread, but have you guys tried using the mastercrafted BG armor?</p><p>I've been playing my Warlock in battlegrounds and before I got the mastercrafted gear I was getting hit quite hard and didn't have much survivability.</p><p>I created an AA spec that's more defensive in nature and now I'm getting about 20% mitigation just from toughness on the mastercrafted set.  The amount of damage that I lose from these changes is insignificant compared to my survivability now.  You don't do much damage when you're dead.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>I grabbed 4 pieces of the MC armor and got my toughness to 191.  Didn't notice a huge difference, instead of dying in 3 seconds maybe I died in 4.</p>

Naggasaki
03-02-2010, 10:17 AM
<p>Ok, I'm going to try to give some serious advice with a bit of back story to start (wall of text warning).</p><p>I started playing EQ2 because a friend asked me to. I had ZERO idea what an MMO was let alone that I was being walked through character creation towards a PvP server. He just said 'Now select Nagafen' and BOOM! I was on the island in my shiney new swashbuckler. Everything was peachy keen as I got Ding after Ding and learned how to play this amazingly addictive game that had other people playing at the same time from all over the world. Then I left the island and went to my Home city at lvl 8. Adventuring around the Peat Bog was cool. Mobs to kill...people running all over the place... DING! level 10. WOO~HOO! .... 'Why am I dead?'</p><p>I almost quit this game so many times because of PvP it's not even funny. But I eventually learned some things by grouping with other people that were out PvP'ing instead of grinding xp. They TALKED to each other and once they found out I was clueless about pvp because I was 'wet behind the ears' they explained some things that I took to heart. It wasn't sudden but I eventually got pretty good at PvP. (at least I like to think so)</p><p>Key things they informed me about.</p><p>1.) Racial and Class abilities require scrutiny. Know them inside and out and not just yours.</p><p>2.) Create a 'target previous hostile PC' key. (this one is key because you can get taunted off of your target if you're the MA for your group)</p><p>3.) If you stand still, you die. If you keep making your healer move to you...you die. (read, stay in range of your healie but healies have to move too sometimes)</p><p>4.) Run from Broncas and crew. (I miss pulling an Broncas crew now that I think about it, welcome to Qeynos Onyx)</p><p>5.) Pots are your friend and should be on your hotbars at ALL times.</p><p>6.) AA spec's are critical.</p><p>The gear helps but the ability to actually PLAY your class is the biggest hurdle anyone new to PvP must overcome. PvP'ers are not mindless mobs with a script and a loot table. Long story short, the more you communicate with your Player vs Player bretheren the more you will learn and the better you may become.</p>

Shankapotomus
03-02-2010, 11:07 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>2.) Create a 'target previous hostile PC' key. (this one is key because you can get taunted off of your target if you're the MA for your group)</p><p>3.) If you stand still, you die. If you keep making your healer move to you...you die. (read, stay in range of your healie but healies have to move too sometimes)</p></blockquote><p>Yea I still need to do that target previous, I'm lazy tho.</p><p>But I get so many PvE (and an incredible amount of PvP) who think they can run off into a full group and I'll be able to follow them and keep them up. Then they go down and yell at me about heals... But if you see me roll with my guild pre-made group we don't go down and I top parse.</p><p>Instead of taking it in stride as part of the game, everyone loves to point fingers and anyone but themselves. It's all part of the game, in a PUG you're gonna get heals when you're close, but I'm not Phelter (workin on it tho)</p>

Taleise
03-02-2010, 11:18 AM
<p>Win or lose, I'm just in it for the token. BG gear "looks" awesome.</p>

Shankapotomus
03-02-2010, 11:25 AM
<p>you should join a PvP server, the BG is just a dull version of the same set.</p>

Kyaaadaa
03-02-2010, 11:28 AM
<p><cite>Taleise wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Win or lose, I'm just in it for the token. BG gear "looks" awesome.</p></blockquote><p>"That is why no one will remember your name." ~ Achillies</p>

MindFury
03-02-2010, 11:34 AM
<p>This game is highly gear based. That being said..it's not just gear, considering most of you blue's are coming over to attempt to pvp, with full tso raid sets, and avatar gear, and many from the pvp server don't have that, as it's a pain in the rump to get ppl dedicated to raiding this content, and farming avatars which are contested, having opposing faction show up is a joke. So plz, less complaining, more learning how to effectively pvp against folks who've been pvp'n for yrs.</p><p>As for wanting the same gear we've worked hard for, for years, dream on, you want it, roll a pvp toon on a pvp server, don't come crying you want the same gear, when you're playing on a pve server. Talk about unfair to the pvp players. If it's such an issue, and you're too scared to roll on a pvp server, start bugging soe to make 2 bg servers, one for you bluebies, and one for us pvpers. Then it won't be an issue any more <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p>

Inferius
03-02-2010, 11:38 AM
<p>I say less QQ more pewpew .Yes Nagafen groups are tough but they are not unbeatable me and my guildmates are doin just fine and we are wearing crafted pvp armor.</p><p>It's pvp you WILL die ALOT just get up rebuff and for god sakes regroup before you head back in instead of running off alone to your death time and time again lol.</p><p>Teamwork=win in the BG's end of story.</p>

yellowbelly08
03-02-2010, 02:10 PM
<p>Sure, at present Naggy players on average give the harder fights..and as a Nagafenite we know the good players already and who to watch out for. However ive also seen at least 2 amazing PVE players...one a Shadowknight who locked down whole groups and doubled my parse and was hardly damagable...the other a Warlock who without manashield stoneskinned almost everything solo then had 2 "you cant change targets at this time" on me even after pvp charm and pots used. Sure I normally 1-2 shot Locks in there but this guy was amazing and shows it can be done by pvers. Of course it also could have potentially been the melee bug seemingly around of late where melee cant damage mages..but ill give him the benefit of the doubt.</p><p>Galoro 90 Ranger Nagafen</p>

Dojac
03-02-2010, 02:16 PM
<p>All I have to say to the original poster is welcome to PvP.  The whole restrict PvP severs to their own battle grounds movement is bogus because battlegrounds ARE PvP servers.  At least SOE was nice enough to still give you a token for losing a match.  It may take a bit longer but at some point you'll have the exact same gear we have.</p>

Geothe
03-02-2010, 02:23 PM
<p>Wow, the number of people unable to comprehend the core issue is astounding.</p><p>It has nothing to do with Toughness.  Toughness is able to become equal for players on PvE and PvP servers over time. PvPers just have a head start on it currently.The issue is the presence of procs on gear which have a very significant impact in PvP play, which are ONLY avaliable to players from PvP servers.  PvE players in the BGs have -no way- to aquire gear with the same procs.  So currently there is -no- way for balance to be achieved over time in this facet.   The simple solution is to just add gear with these procs to BG merchants allowing PvEers to also aquire them with tokens along with the rest of their PvP gear.Because until this is done, or these procs are removed/disabled in the BGs, there will NEVER be parity between players from PvE and PvP servers.</p>

Dojac
03-02-2010, 02:49 PM
<p><cite>Geothe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Wow, the number of people unable to comprehend the core issue is astounding.</p><p>It has nothing to do with Toughness.  Toughness is able to become equal for players on PvE and PvP servers over time. PvPers just have a head start on it currently.The issue is the presence of procs on gear which have a very significant impact in PvP play, which are ONLY avaliable to players from PvP servers.  PvE players in the BGs have -no way- to aquire gear with the same procs.  So currently there is -no- way for balance to be achieved over time in this facet.   The simple solution is to just add gear with these procs to BG merchants allowing PvEers to also aquire them with tokens along with the rest of their PvP gear.Because until this is done, or these procs are removed/disabled in the BGs, there will NEVER be parity between players from PvE and PvP servers.</p></blockquote><p>The T9 PvP gear and the T9 BG gear is exactly the same.  It may take a bit of time but the differences will come out in the wash as people gather enough tokens oto buy the new stuff but give it a few weeks and we'll all be on equal footing.  As we've moved up tiers with each new expansion the last tier's pvp gear simply doesn't get picked up as the next tier's gear is just going to be better. PvP servers have a head start is all</p>

Naggasaki
03-02-2010, 02:54 PM
<p><cite>Geothe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Wow, the number of people unable to comprehend the core issue is astounding.</p><p>It has nothing to do with Toughness.  Toughness is able to become equal for players on PvE and PvP servers over time. PvPers just have a head start on it currently.The issue is the presence of procs on gear which have a very significant impact in PvP play, which are ONLY avaliable to players from PvP servers.  PvE players in the BGs have -no way- to aquire gear with the same procs.  So currently there is -no- way for balance to be achieved over time in this facet.   The simple solution is to just add gear with these procs to BG merchants allowing PvEers to also aquire them with tokens along with the rest of their PvP gear.Because until this is done, or these procs are removed/disabled in the BGs, there will NEVER be parity between players from PvE and PvP servers.</p></blockquote><p>And so I will re-state my original post regarding this issue.</p><p>IT'S PVP! It never has been, nor will it ever be, a FAIR FIGHT!</p><p>Find ways to deal with it or don't que up. My SK doesn't get a 'fear proc' ring....i use pots to counter it. I don't get a 'barb' buff naturally, I use pots that give it to me....start thinking instead of whining.</p>

Kazzo
03-02-2010, 03:12 PM
<p>QQ more....... PvP players aren't killing you because of gear but you people blame it on that because instead of trying to find a solution like the BG MC you come to the forums and QQ... Get over it some of you may take a few days to adjust some may take weeks even months you will eventually get the hang of it (I hope) and if not then your outta luck. Do you think it was easy for us to adjust when we first came here? NO, now stop whining and learn to adapt.</p>

crumpledmonkey
03-02-2010, 07:38 PM
<p>If its gear procs so much stun /stifle then those top pve raiders need to go back and run some old raid zones and get those procs. On pve servers items with those procs were probably transmute fodder on day one, but on pvp servers those are the items that pvpers would spend the most dkp on. I know that when i look at gear i think what will that do for me in pvp first then in pve.</p>

Neskonlith
03-02-2010, 07:47 PM
<p><cite>crumpledmonkey wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If its gear procs so much stun /stifle then those top pve raiders need to go back and run some old raid zones and get those procs.</p><p>On pve servers items with those procs were probably transmute fodder on day one, but on pvp servers those are the items that pvpers would spend the most dkp on.</p><p>I know that when i look at gear i think what will that do for me in pvp first then in pve.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">True!  PVE players have usually optimized their characters and playstyles for pve, but pvp and now BeeGees will demand different AA specs and gear choices to make a difference.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Those formerly "useless" AAs, abilities and gear might surprise you depending on your class.</span></p>

03-03-2010, 10:08 PM
<p><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I haven't kept up with the entire thread, but have you guys tried using the mastercrafted BG armor?</p><p>I've been playing my Warlock in battlegrounds and before I got the mastercrafted gear I was getting hit quite hard and didn't have much survivability.</p><p>I created an AA spec that's more defensive in nature and now I'm getting about 20% mitigation just from toughness on the mastercrafted set.  The amount of damage that I lose from these changes is insignificant compared to my survivability now.  You don't do much damage when you're dead.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>The clouds parted... I had an epiphany.. and things became so clear after reading this post.  I was wondering why the sorcies got so crazy with this xpac.  Seems our lead programmer is playing one <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Rothgar
03-03-2010, 10:33 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I haven't kept up with the entire thread, but have you guys tried using the mastercrafted BG armor?</p><p>I've been playing my Warlock in battlegrounds and before I got the mastercrafted gear I was getting hit quite hard and didn't have much survivability.</p><p>I created an AA spec that's more defensive in nature and now I'm getting about 20% mitigation just from toughness on the mastercrafted set.  The amount of damage that I lose from these changes is insignificant compared to my survivability now.  You don't do much damage when you're dead.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>The clouds parted... I had an epiphany.. and things became so clear after reading this post.  I was wondering why the sorcies got so crazy with this xpac.  Seems our lead programmer is playing one <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Nice try.  My mains are Guardian and Ranger, are they also OP'd because I play them?  Also, I don't make any design decisions when it comes to spells, AA's or class balance, so the whole idea that I would over-power a class that I play is crazy.  In fact, I'm the one that fixed a Manashield problem that was causing damage reduction to be applied twice, once for the health part and once for the power part.</p><p>Whoops, there goes your theory.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

03-03-2010, 10:49 PM
<p>easy there killer was only a joke.. chillax <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Rothgar
03-03-2010, 11:10 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>easy there killer was only a joke.. chillax <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>You may have meant it as a joke but you know very well that those types of speculations are VERY common.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Neskonlith
03-03-2010, 11:25 PM
<p><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>easy there killer was only a joke.. chillax <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>You may have meant it as a joke but you know very well that those types of speculations are VERY common.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> </p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Yup, just listen to that paranoid ol' nut Lucan broadcasting on the clockwork radio and you'll hear all sorts of rumours...</span></p><p><img src="http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb310/Bitter_Coffee/screenies/itsaneq2conspiracy.jpg" /></p><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" /></p>

Mascouti
03-03-2010, 11:39 PM
<p><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I haven't kept up with the entire thread, but have you guys tried using the mastercrafted BG armor?</p><p>I've been playing my Warlock in battlegrounds and before I got the mastercrafted gear I was getting hit quite hard and didn't have much survivability.</p><p>I created an AA spec that's more defensive in nature and now I'm getting about 20% mitigation just from toughness on the mastercrafted set.  The amount of damage that I lose from these changes is insignificant compared to my survivability now.  You don't do much damage when you're dead.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>The clouds parted... I had an epiphany.. and things became so clear after reading this post.  I was wondering why the sorcies got so crazy with this xpac.  Seems our lead programmer is playing one <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Nice try.  My mains are Guardian and Ranger, are they also OP'd because I play them?  Also, I don't make any design decisions when it comes to spells, AA's or class balance, so the whole idea that I would over-power a class that I play is crazy.  In fact, I'm the one that fixed a Manashield problem that was causing damage reduction to be applied twice, once for the health part and once for the power part.</p><p>Whoops, there goes your theory.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Yes!  Rangers going from 15k or so to over 30k in raids this expac with same gear on.</p>

screenid
03-03-2010, 11:47 PM
<p>Well if you look back a few post ...I was saying let them stay...</p><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" />  after tonight I am not sure  PVP and PVE should mix in BGs ...AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO  WITH THEIR GEAR..</p><p>1) They (PVPers) seem to only complain in Voice and Raid chat...about how much they hate being with PVEers.  IF they do not want to enjoy the Open BG with PVEers...then by all means isolate them to their own BG..</p><p>2) Seems the PVPers give up when we start losing??? BOGGLES...   Tonight  in  3 different instances ......as soon as we got behind the PVPers (from Naggy I might add) said "Just give up...we can't win..."  </p><p>I been in several matches<span style="color: #ff0000;">...WHEN WE DID NOT GIVE UP </span>>>AND WON</p><p>-------------------side note-------------------</p><p>SHAME ON THE GUY IN OUR DENS GROUP that was on VENT with his GUILD (Most of the other team) telling them what we were planning to do.   What fun is it cheating like that... what were you 2 boxing ?  One toon on the red team ..one toon on the Blue spying ???    Glad you found a way to get 4 tokens </p>

Adba
03-04-2010, 12:25 AM
<p>I like playing against/with the Nagafen people, so different in many cases, always having to be on your toes. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /></p><p>I just wish we could play against/with <strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">MORE SERVERS </span> ~</strong> <strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Splitpaw</span></strong> / <strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Runnyeye </span></strong>and not just eachother, it's simply too small a community and we often end up queued for hours on end to get a single match going, that if lucky got half a group on each team.. That is if the Battlegrounds are actually available.</p><p>I don't appreciate having to log onto a US server just to be able to play in the Battlegrounds. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" /></p>

aspit
03-04-2010, 12:41 AM
<p>All the Naggy's are saying gear is not the issue - then give one good reason things like banshee hoop should no be nerfed or offered to the other servers. I have a banshee hoop and its unfair to others I get it and they don't.</p>

Ahlana
03-04-2010, 01:04 AM
<p><cite>aspit wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>All the Naggy's are saying gear is not the issue - then give one good reason things like banshee hoop should no be nerfed or offered to the other servers. I have a banshee hoop and its unfair to others I get it and they don't.</p></blockquote><p>No need for nerf.. and I have already suggested and made a thread suggesting that they put T8 PVP Gear up for sale on the BG merchants (including jewlery)</p>

Kimber
03-04-2010, 01:27 AM
<p><cite>screenid wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Well if you look back a few post ...I was saying let them stay...</p><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" />  after tonight I am not sure  PVP and PVE should mix in BGs ...AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO  WITH THEIR GEAR..</p><p>1) They (PVPers) seem to only complain in Voice and Raid chat...about how much they hate being with PVEers.  IF they do not want to enjoy the Open BG with PVEers...then by all means isolate them to their own BG..</p><p>2) Seems the PVPers give up when we start losing??? BOGGLES...   Tonight  in  3 different instances ......as soon as we got behind the PVPers (from Naggy I might add) said "Just give up...we can't win..."  </p><p>I been in several matches<span style="color: #ff0000;">...WHEN WE DID NOT GIVE UP </span>>>AND WON</p><p>-------------------side note-------------------</p><p>SHAME ON THE GUY IN OUR DENS GROUP that was on VENT with his GUILD (Most of the other team) telling them what we were planning to do.   What fun is it cheating like that... what were you 2 boxing ?  One toon on the red team ..one toon on the Blue spying ???    Glad you found a way to get 4 tokens </p></blockquote><p>While I have not told anyone to give up I have felt this way on BG's.  The main reason I have hit this point is dealing with the other players on my team either not staying with the group res zerging and ignoring simple requests such as putting the premade group we joined with together in the Raid.  There is a reason we set that group up the way we have it and are asking to be put together its cause we work well togather in a PvP environment and have been playing side by side for who knows how long.  I really think if you join as a group be it a full 6 or just 2 you should end up in the same group in the raid ones. </p><p>On another note though I think that to seperate the PvP players from the PvE players in BG is a bad idea.  TBH I have allot of fun playing along side the PvE players.  Other than the few times the above has happend its been a blast, and I bet you would find that the ones off Naggy that are complaining about being with the PvE guys are not in the majority they just cry the loudest <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />   </p>

Foolsfolly
03-04-2010, 03:07 AM
<p><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Nice try. My mains are Guardian and Ranger, are they also OP'd because I play them? <strong>Also, I don't make any design decisions when it comes to spells, AA's or class balance</strong>, so the whole idea that I would over-power a class that I play is crazy. <strong>In fact, I'm the one that fixed a Manashield problem </strong>that was causing damage reduction to be applied twice, once for the health part and once for the power part.</p><p>Whoops, there goes your theory. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>So, you don't make any design decisions, you just "fix problems". Gotcha <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p>

Kyaaadaa
03-04-2010, 05:03 AM
<blockquote><p>No need for nerf.. and I have already suggested and made a thread suggesting that they put T8 PVP Gear up for sale on the BG merchants (including jewlery)</p></blockquote><p>The problem with T8 gear vs the T9 gear is that the T9 gear is scripted to work as advertised for PvP and PvP only. Against PvE its not as effective, making the need for PvE gear (the stuff you get from raiding) a necessity. A lot of people on Nagafen dropped every raid they had planned to acquire their PvP gear because it was a Fabled set that gave amazing bonuses, but not only in PvP, but PvE also. You no longer needed the raiding gear, there was gear available with the same type of boosts for much less time.</p><p>Allowing T8 PvP gear to be bought would wreck the PvE servers raiding gear. Its on par with T3 shard gear (which I believe T8 PvP and T3 Shard gear is still the best pieces available until more Fabled T9 gear comes out) and many of the Fabled sets you can acquire in the once-was endgame.</p><p>As a side note on the PvP being less effective in PvE. Its a nice touch, but were it up to me, I'd allow T8 PvP to be bought in BG were that T9 PvP as effective in and out of PvP. Having a full set of gear that can take time and effort to get but only works in certain theaters is like having a full set of gear from WoE and SOE going "No wait, that set only gives 85% Crit in WoE, its actually 15% outside that zone." Thanks for the lack of versatility. Gear is gear, just because a sword is more effective against one type of mob... its a fricken sword, take the shard part stick it in the enemy. Armor is armor, it takes blows so you don't have to. That armor is going to mysteriously NOT stop a sword swing because its designed to only handle hammers.</p>

swedago
03-04-2010, 05:14 AM
<p><cite>Kyaaadaa wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><blockquote><p>No need for nerf.. and I have already suggested and made a thread suggesting that they put T8 PVP Gear up for sale on the BG merchants (including jewlery)</p></blockquote><p>The problem with T8 gear vs the T9 gear is that the T9 gear is scripted to work as advertised for PvP and PvP only. Against PvE its not as effective, making the need for PvE gear (the stuff you get from raiding) a necessity. A lot of people on Nagafen dropped every raid they had planned to acquire their PvP gear because it was a Fabled set that gave amazing bonuses, but not only in PvP, but PvE also. You no longer needed the raiding gear, there was gear available with the same type of boosts for much less time.</p><p>Allowing T8 PvP gear to be bought would wreck the PvE servers raiding gear. Its on par with T3 shard gear (which I believe T8 PvP and T3 Shard gear is still the best pieces available until more Fabled T9 gear comes out) and many of the Fabled sets you can acquire in the once-was endgame.</p><p>As a side note on the PvP being less effective in PvE. Its a nice touch, but were it up to me, I'd allow T8 PvP to be bought in BG were that T9 PvP as effective in and out of PvP. Having a full set of gear that can take time and effort to get but only works in certain theaters is like having a full set of gear from WoE and SOE going "No wait, that set only gives 85% Crit in WoE, its actually 15% outside that zone." Thanks for the lack of versatility. Gear is gear, just because a sword is more effective against one type of mob... its a fricken sword, take the shard part stick it in the enemy. Armor is armor, it takes blows so you don't have to. That armor is going to mysteriously NOT stop a sword swing because its designed to only handle hammers.</p></blockquote><p>Most of what you said is right on...  I would like to do a little comparison that will probably make the non-pvp endgame guilds a little nuts, but here is my proposal:</p><p>Add some Crit MIT into this new tier9 BG armor.  That way after spending numerous hours grinding BGs to get 1 piece (takes a lot less time to get fully suited in tier2 gear from scratch that has Crit Mit) you can actually use it in real instances, and this gives a chance for most of the non hardcore people a chance to be decently geared for a change.</p>

MindFury
03-04-2010, 07:40 AM
<p>Whine less, learn to play your class more. If you seriously think you have any right to gear from a prior expansion from a PVP server you're sadly mistaken.</p><p>BG's came out with t9. Deal with t9 gear.</p><p>Don't sit and cry and whine that you're going against pvpers who've been pvping for yrs obtaining their pvp gear, and think that because you're not a pvper but join bg's, you suddenly have rights to gear not on your server.</p><p>Again if you want the same gear we have from PRIOR TIERS, get off your rump and make a toon on the pvp server. Tired of cry babies always thinking they gotta have what someone else has, and if they can't have it NOW, NERF IT OR TAKE IT AWAY. kiss my rump. I earned my darn gear. Who are you folks to tell us we've no right to use it, or to demand soe remove it, or don't let pvpers in bgs? are we expected to go in with no gear because we have pieces of pvp gear from a prior tier just because you have no clue how to pvp? shall we say the same about yalls full tso raid sets and avatar gear? crap that's 10x harder for pvpers to obtain due to being on a pvp server?</p><p>This gear is what we fight against every darn day. Get used to it just like we have to. The fear proc ring is simply 1 item. for healers. Try playing on a pvp server as a healer and not have it. See how quickly you find yourself dead to scouts/mages because they've got you stun locked, mezz'd, stifled, interrupted so much you can't do squat but stand there and blink as u die. It hopefully provides healers with at least a very short term respite in the hopes of getting a heal off. Can it be annoying to get feared, [Removed for Content] straight, I've got 4 toons that deal with that fear proc, you don't see me crying and whining and screaming nerf it or take it away. You adapt. if you can't adapt take a hike and leave the pvp to the big boys and girls.</p>

Kaja
03-04-2010, 08:46 AM
<p><cite>MindFury wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Whine less, learn to play your class more. If you seriously think you have any right to gear from a prior expansion from a PVP server you're sadly mistaken.</p><p>BG's came out with t9. Deal with t9 gear.</p><p>Don't sit and cry and whine that you're going against pvpers who've been pvping for yrs obtaining their pvp gear, and think that because you're not a pvper but join bg's, you suddenly have rights to gear not on your server.</p><p>Again if you want the same gear we have from PRIOR TIERS, get off your rump and make a toon on the pvp server. Tired of cry babies always thinking they gotta have what someone else has, and if they can't have it NOW, NERF IT OR TAKE IT AWAY. kiss my rump. I earned my darn gear. Who are you folks to tell us we've no right to use it, or to demand soe remove it, or don't let pvpers in bgs? are we expected to go in with no gear because we have pieces of pvp gear from a prior tier just because you have no clue how to pvp? shall we say the same about yalls full tso raid sets and avatar gear? crap that's 10x harder for pvpers to obtain due to being on a pvp server?</p><p>This gear is what we fight against every darn day. Get used to it just like we have to. The fear proc ring is simply 1 item. for healers. Try playing on a pvp server as a healer and not have it. See how quickly you find yourself dead to scouts/mages because they've got you stun locked, mezz'd, stifled, interrupted so much you can't do squat but stand there and blink as u die. It hopefully provides healers with at least a very short term respite in the hopes of getting a heal off. Can it be annoying to get feared, [Removed for Content] straight, I've got 4 toons that deal with that fear proc, you don't see me crying and whining and screaming nerf it or take it away. You adapt. if you can't adapt take a hike and leave the pvp to the big boys and girls.</p></blockquote><p>So lets recap shall we :</p><p>• Gear doesnt affect PVP, PVP players win because they are better players all round : Check</p><p>• You play hard on a PVP server every [Removed for Content] day, to earn your worthless no benefit PVP gear : Check</p><p>• Nearly every PVP player i have seen or known, all claim it is rediculously easy to get a full set of PVP fabled gear, stupidly easy : Check (please read all the "wow you made it that easy now all the scrubs have the best pvp gear" whine threads)</p><p>• It's harder to get a full set of TSO PVE gear on PVP servers, because people can gank you : Check (when it all comes from instance's)</p><p>• It's Harder to get rubbish worthless super nerfed avatar gear(where nearly every drop has an instanced item that blows it out of the water) on PVP servers because people can gank you : Check</p><p>So i can acertain from your post and most of the other PVP players posts, that you are in fact morons, you claim gear doesnt matter, then say how dare you ask for our hard earned gear to be given to others? you claim gear has no influence on PVP at all, then say we dont have access to your amazing OP TSO / Avatar gear. are you usually so special?</p><p>PVP in EQ2 is all GEAR related, that and which class is the current FOM over powered and unbalanced class.</p><p>If you are struggling to grasp how much of an infulence GEAR has in PVP i challenge you to try it naked, or in full treasured gear, and let me know how well that works out for you, im sure if all you had availiable to you was treasured gear with low stats, no resists and no procs of any sort what so ever, you would be in here bleating like the moronic sheep that you are, that is unfair that others have gear that is better suited to the task of PVP  than you do on your server, so much so it has a huge negative effect on your ability to PVP properly.</p><p>• PVE gear is designed for killing NPC's any sort of crowd control effect is removed from pretty much every single peice of PVE gear. usually mobs are immune to these effects, hence the total lack of it on PVE gear.</p><p>• PVP is designed around player vrs player combat, where crowd control effects are in design on all sorts of items, because it is actually some sort of benefit to the people using it.</p><p>If you cannot see the truth of the above two statements, you are a brain dead fool, if you cannot see that this has a huge impact on PVE players ability to PVP against players with said gear, you are a brain dead fool, if you think having this gear and being a pvp'er makes you skilled at PVP you are an even bigger fool.</p><p>PVP in eq2 is massively flawed, it is TOTALLY gear dependent and class dependent, how the hell can you players even think what you do in EQ2 is skilled PVP i have no idea, it cannot be skilled because there is NO SKILL in wearing gear that lets you have massive edges over others without it, without access to it.</p><p>In short, play a real PVP game, where there are no class's where there is no gear, when the only thing between you winning and losing is your own personal uninfluenced ability to react, shoot and kill, before you get shot.</p>

Naggasaki
03-04-2010, 09:16 AM
<p><cite>Kaja wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>MindFury wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Whine less, learn to play your class more. If you seriously think you have any right to gear from a prior expansion from a PVP server you're sadly mistaken.</p><p>BG's came out with t9. Deal with t9 gear.</p><p>Don't sit and cry and whine that you're going against pvpers who've been pvping for yrs obtaining their pvp gear, and think that because you're not a pvper but join bg's, you suddenly have rights to gear not on your server.</p><p>Again if you want the same gear we have from PRIOR TIERS, get off your rump and make a toon on the pvp server. Tired of cry babies always thinking they gotta have what someone else has, and if they can't have it NOW, NERF IT OR TAKE IT AWAY. kiss my rump. I earned my darn gear. Who are you folks to tell us we've no right to use it, or to demand soe remove it, or don't let pvpers in bgs? are we expected to go in with no gear because we have pieces of pvp gear from a prior tier just because you have no clue how to pvp? shall we say the same about yalls full tso raid sets and avatar gear? crap that's 10x harder for pvpers to obtain due to being on a pvp server?</p><p>This gear is what we fight against every darn day. Get used to it just like we have to. The fear proc ring is simply 1 item. for healers. Try playing on a pvp server as a healer and not have it. See how quickly you find yourself dead to scouts/mages because they've got you stun locked, mezz'd, stifled, interrupted so much you can't do squat but stand there and blink as u die. It hopefully provides healers with at least a very short term respite in the hopes of getting a heal off. Can it be annoying to get feared, [Removed for Content] straight, I've got 4 toons that deal with that fear proc, you don't see me crying and whining and screaming nerf it or take it away. You adapt. if you can't adapt take a hike and leave the pvp to the big boys and girls.</p></blockquote><p>So lets recap shall we :</p><p>• Gear doesnt affect PVP, PVP players win because they are better players all round : Check</p><p>• You play hard on a PVP server every [Removed for Content] day, to earn your worthless no benefit PVP gear : Check</p><p>• Nearly every PVP player i have seen or known, all claim it is rediculously easy to get a full set of PVP fabled gear, stupidly easy : Check (please read all the "wow you made it that easy now all the scrubs have the best pvp gear" whine threads)</p><p>• It's harder to get a full set of TSO PVE gear on PVP servers, because people can gank you : Check</p><p>• It's Harder to get rubbish worthless super nerfed avatar gear(where nearly every drop has an instanced item that blows it out of the water) on PVP servers because people can gank you : Check</p><p>So i can acertain from your post and most of the other PVP players posts, that you are in fact morons, you claim gear doesnt matter, then say how dare you ask for our hard earned gear to be given to others? you claim gear has no influence on PVP at all, then say we dont have access to your amazing OP TSO / Avatar gear. are you usually so special?</p><p>PVP in EQ2 is all GEAR related, that and which class is the current FOV over powered and unbalanced class.</p><p>If you are struggling to grasp how much of an infulence GEAR has in PVP i challenge you to try it naked, or in full treasured gear, and let me know how well that works out for you, im sure if all you had availiable to you was treasured gear with low stats, no resists and no procs of any sort what so ever, you would be in here bleating like the moronic sheep that you are, that is unfair that others have gear that is better suited to the task of PVP  than you do on your server, so much so it has a huge negative effect on your ability to PVP properly.</p><p>• PVE gear is designed for killing NPC's any sort of crowd control effect is removed from pretty much every single peice of PVE gear. usually mobs are immune to these effects, hence the total lack of it on PVE gear.</p><p>• PVP is designed around player vrs player combat, where crowd control effects are in design on all sorts of items, because it is actually some sort of benefit to the people using it.</p><p>If you cannot see the truth of the above two statements, you are a brain dead fool, if you cannot see that this has a huge impact on PVE players ability to PVP against players with said gear, you are a brian dead fool, if you think having this gear and being a pvp'er makes you skilled at PVP you are an even bigger fool.</p><p>PVP in eq2 is massively flawed, it is TOTALLY gear dependent and class dependent, how the hell can you players even think what you do in EQ2 is skilled PVP i have no idea, it cannot be skilled because there is NO SKILL in wearing gear that lets you have massive edges over others without it, without access to it.</p><p>In short, play a real PVP game, where there are no class's where there is no gear, when the only thing between you winning and losing is your own personal uninfluenced ability to react, shoot and kill, before you get shot.</p></blockquote><p>First, I don't think anyone has said PvP gear doesn't affect PvP at all. We've merely stated that it isn't the 'tide breaking swell' that some are claiming it to be. Yes, the gear helps but the skill (ability to know which class does what and how to kill it fastest to neutralize the opponent) that we have learned is that 'swell'.</p><p>Secondly, if you think that we were just HANDED PvP gear without any deaths or struggle at all, you are sadly mistaken. Yes, the PvP zerg that happened about 4 months ago did make it easier to get the gear. But many of us (probably the one's your getting your 'rumps' handed to you by) got the majority of their gear/tokens well before it became easier to get.</p><p>Third, I'd bet my warlocks Master Rift that as soon as a few people from naggy get their sets from this 'zerg in a box' they will bring that gear back to overworld pvp and the zerg will merely ensue again. This time it'll be on Kerra Island instead of Kylong Plains. And then, the Battlegrounds will be back to being just the AFK'ers and 'who killed me's' of your native servers. You may have a few Naggy players but they will be the ones that were late to the party and are avoiding the overland zerg that will affect their KvD ratio.</p><p>Lastly, there is no way you should have access to t-8 PvP gear. I can't go get more of it, why should you be able to get it now?</p>

Costa
03-04-2010, 10:15 AM
<p>I think what a lot of the whiners are missing is that one of the most if not most successfull guilds on the nagafen server was able to achieve a lot in pvp and pve were in fact exiled. This means they had no pvp gear to go against other pvp players. Even in t9 they were still tearing up groups in their t4 armor and avatar gear due to the fact they know how to play their toons.</p><p>Not everyone from nagafen enters the BG's in full pvp gear. I know of several guildies that have toons in t2 shard armor running around in them because they enjoy the pvp and the easy to get pvp armor. BG's have bigger zerg fests than anything we have in open world pvp due to lack of rez effects after you die. I know of guildmates now that are getting 2nd and 3rd pvp jewlery items due to the easy to get token system.</p><p>Last night i decided to take my zerk in to a couple pugs. The Klak instance i was in had 1 person on each side from nagafen and the rest non pvp server players. We had no healer and the other sides healer was from naggy with the fear ring. Now a 5 man group with no healer and the zerker in 4 pieces of tso pvp gear comfortably beat a full group with a pvp healer, although i don't know what armor he had. Gear means jack if the people running around have no clue how to get organised and kill their opponents or acomplish the zone goal.</p><p>If everyone is so worried about how naggy/vox players kill them in 1, 2 or 3 hits then try using the lvl 80 MC BG armor and see how much better you do. Yes you lack the blue stats but being able to hit someone 4 times for smaller amounts is better than just once for a larger amount. Or carry on running around in under par gear, whining on the boards that we're all op and you don't have a chance so we can carry on getting easy updates and our lvl 90 armor before you. Either way if you don't learn how to work as teams or communicate effectively you may as well just go afk and take the punishment.</p>

ghhtwsfqa
03-04-2010, 11:06 AM
<p>Of course gear means nothing if the people behind it are clueless.  When the more skilled players win in spite of their inferior selection of gear, there is no problem  When trying to balance a game, you do not look at how to fix better players winning.  Why are you even talking about it Bazill?</p><p>The problem comes when more skilled, better coordianted players lose because they have an inferior selection of gear to choose from.  Of course this will only happen if the two sides are still relatively close in skill, but it does happen and when it does it is very frustrating and arguable unfair.  In the long run, this will become a bigger and bigger issue, it will not go away as pve's get more practice/gear up, in fact it will get worse as they get closer to the pvp'r in skill and other gear and the difference the proc gear makes starts to tell more often.</p>

BChizzle
03-04-2010, 11:13 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think what a lot of the whiners are missing is that one of the most if not most successfull guilds on the nagafen server was able to achieve a lot in pvp and pve were in fact exiled. This means they had no pvp gear to go against other pvp players. Even in t9 they were still tearing up groups in their t4 armor and avatar gear due to the fact they know how to play their toons.</p><p>Not everyone from nagafen enters the BG's in full pvp gear. I know of several guildies that have toons in t2 shard armor running around in them because they enjoy the pvp and the easy to get pvp armor. BG's have bigger zerg fests than anything we have in open world pvp due to lack of rez effects after you die. I know of guildmates now that are getting 2nd and 3rd pvp jewlery items due to the easy to get token system.</p><p>Last night i decided to take my zerk in to a couple pugs. The Klak instance i was in had 1 person on each side from nagafen and the rest non pvp server players. We had no healer and the other sides healer was from naggy with the fear ring. Now a 5 man group with no healer and the zerker in 4 pieces of tso pvp gear comfortably beat a full group with a pvp healer, although i don't know what armor he had. Gear means jack if the people running around have no clue how to get organised and kill their opponents or acomplish the zone goal.</p><p>If everyone is so worried about how naggy/vox players kill them in 1, 2 or 3 hits then try using the lvl 80 MC BG armor and see how much better you do. Yes you lack the blue stats but being able to hit someone 4 times for smaller amounts is better than just once for a larger amount. Or carry on running around in under par gear, whining on the boards that we're all op and you don't have a chance so we can carry on getting easy updates and our lvl 90 armor before you. Either way if you don't learn how to work as teams or communicate effectively you may as well just go afk and take the punishment.</p></blockquote><p>Aren't you Nagafools contradicting yourselves here?  I mean on one hand you say its all skills that make you so much better but your best pvp'ers were exiled so weren't even real pvp'ers and not getting the same experience as your less effective pvp'ers.  According to you guys they should be the worst of your server yet they are clearly heads and shoulders above the rest of you.  Just admit gear makes the difference instead of coming off as sheep thx.</p>

Dorsan
03-04-2010, 11:19 AM
<p><cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Aren't you Nagafools contradicting yourselves here?  I mean on one hand you say its all skills that make you so much better but your best pvp'ers were exiled so weren't even real pvp'ers and not getting the same experience as your less effective pvp'ers.  According to you guys they should be the worst of your server yet they are clearly heads and shoulders above the rest of you.  Just admit gear makes the difference instead of coming off as sheep thx.</p></blockquote><p>What the hell did you missread? Exiles are the real pvp faction since they have free for all, they can kill freeps, qs and other exiles. What people from nagafen are telling you is that exiles were pwning us all over the place and they had no access to PvP gear because PvP gear was only available for city factions. Hence any argument about necessity of T8 PvP gear is silly.</p>

Alazarz
03-04-2010, 11:21 AM
<p>yes, Onyx was exile for along time (until recently) with no pvp gear, no banshee hoops, no shifting band/buckler, no pvp armor etc etc.. they had their PVE gear..JUST LIKE THE PEOPLE ON BLUE SERVERS HAVE.. and they would take on an x4 with a stacked group of their CORE players and live .. i have seen 1 group of onyx stay up for hours fighting a zerg x4+ i their "blue" gear..</p><p>And btw the got their avatar gear on an open world pvp server where their pulls could (and did) get interferred with by who? People with PVP gear..people with banshee hoops!! peopl with Shifting bands and bucklers!!</p><p>They are currently the #1 pvp guild WW.. and they achieved that long before they came here or had acces to any fancy pvp items..</p><p>So, Why do people still complain? " people arent seeing the point of this thread..its their proc gear they have access to bla bla bla whine whine whine QQ"</p><p>No we see your point crystal clear.. Your upset about getting rolled in your premades so you have to turn and make excuses about this and that..and you guys are just so CERTAIN that its a couple pieces of exotic proc gear like the banshee hoop thats just turning the tides completley to nagafens favor..</p>

MindFury
03-04-2010, 11:34 AM
<p>kaja, you apparently have no clue what pvp servers are like, I'd suggest you roll a toon on one and learn what you need to, before opening your mouth.</p><p>we'll go with the gear for the moment, tso sets, avatar pieces, specifically...why they are harder to obtain on pvp...folks are here to play for the pvp, raiding is an after thought for most, in fact many want the pve aspect out of the way in favor of pvp. Thus you find it hard to gain the attention of, and hold the attention of many. There is not enough dedication from far too many players, to sit in a dungeon (s) for hours at a time, nights/days at a time, killing trash mobs and bosses, over and over, in the hopes of obtaining a piece of gear they can use, and out bid some other guildie on.</p><p>Pvp is much more fun to these ppl, the kill and the gear driving them.  This is what makes tso sets so hard to obtain. Guilds may have enough for a x2 of ppl on at any given time lately, or enough for a 6 man grp, maybe even a x4. But of those that are on, who wants to waste time raiding and who doesn't? who's good enough at raiding and following strict strats, and who's not the least bit interested in devoting that much time, when they could be out kickin the crap out of some pvper?... this is what you don't get. you bluebies do nothing but pve. day in, day out, content to go on with your boring little lives, killin npcs over and over and over because yall haven't got what it takes to deal with pvp and the million and one hassles that go along with it.</p><p>Avatars....if ppl can't be bothered to raid, they sure the hell can't be bothered to attempt avatars, especially when it drags opposing faction straight to you to slaughter you in the middle of an attempted pull on said avatars. So no avatar kill, and tons of pvp deaths, since avatars are hard enough as is, without adding in opposing faction coming in and mezz'n your tank, healers, etc.</p><p>And you want to complain about going against folks who're coming in to bg's with some so called op gear LOL...as it's been stated prior, the guild on nagafen server who's handed many ppl their [Removed for Content] over and over and over again has been a pve oriented guild geared to the hilt in avatar gear and full tso raid sets, decimating the opposition time after time after time. So plz, learn [Removed for Content] ur talking about before blathering here. Unsure where you get the idea pve gear has no influence on pvp, but you are sadly mistaken.</p><p>As for our t8 pvp gear. I'm not a full time raider, never have been, never will be, my guild is not a hard core raid guild, never has been, can't see it ever being..we currently do not raid at all, and have not for many months now, in fact when we did raid, it was a whopping 6 hours a week, never clearing end game content enough for more than a 3 piece set of tso gear, which was pointless to wear vs the full pvp set. I'm neither a hard core pvper, and never will be, I'm a small mix of both, pve and pvp, I run around solo 85% of my time in game, content to do my own thing as often as possible...My healer is my first and most played pvp toon, and she's been running around in woe gear, old pr/soh/instance gear, and 5 pieces of pvp gear for a very long time. That being said, am I expected to remove those 5 pieces of gear because 2 give me a combined total of less than 50 toughness, and a fear proc that may or may not even proc during a fight, simply because you bluebies don't have that old t8 pvp gear? My healer is lvl 90, she will not see new gear, or at least "better gear", for some time...is she expected to go without the gear she did work hard to earn, simply because you kids feel that old gear is so op against other lvl 90's who're probably rockin full tso sets, and avatar pieces, vs my woe/pr/soh gear? I mean really, still wearing the re2 cloak, the vyx crest locket from pr, so on so forth, and ur crying about my "big meanie" fear piece LOL</p><p>Next time you pop in to bg's, take a look at guild names, look specifically for Onyx. Until recently they had NO pvp gear, and many still don't, and of those that do, they only have a cpl pieces..so when you go against them, and you find yourself laying dead, time after time after time, remember you're fighting pve players who pop in to the pvp world here and there, just long enough to slaughter what's in their path, with their "omg it's no where near equal" pve gear = )</p>

shalom
03-04-2010, 01:25 PM
<p>Bluebies would see marked improvement if healers just.....um...I don't know....healed/cured.</p>

Taldier
03-04-2010, 02:24 PM
<p>I have good news!  Pve players can get access to lower tier pvp items!  HoOoORayyy!! First open your character select screen.  You are going to create a new character, yay!!  Now on the server select click one of those red colored words.  I know red is a very scary color, its not calming and soothing like blue, but just roll with it ok.  Now go out into the wonderful world of norrath and learn to pvp.</p><p><span style="font-size: xx-small;">Note that this is a limited time offer, must act before the devs find a way to kill pvp servers altogether, also must not be a total blubie pansy.</span></p><p>Btw, can I get some of that avatar gear from past expansions before pvp servers could raid with all classes from mobs that dont exist anymore?  No?  Oh darn.</p>

Crismorn
03-04-2010, 03:05 PM
<p>Just offer the same items on the BG merchant, I know for a fact that these amazing pvp players dont need random pieces of gear as a crutch... or do they?</p>

Neskonlith
03-04-2010, 03:14 PM
<p><span style="color: #ff0000;">SOE has already planned to offer the BeeGees to lower levels than just 80+ as it is now.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Currently, all the rewards are offered on the basis of participants being 90 or soon will be.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">I anticipate that when the BeeGees are expanded to offer access to lower tiers, the merchants will also be expanded to offer rewards for the new tiers.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">It is highly probable that the new BeeGee stuff will also match the current lower tier pvp stuff.</span></p>

Notsovilepriest
03-04-2010, 03:16 PM
<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just offer the same items on the BG merchant, I know for a fact that these amazing pvp players dont need random pieces of gear as a crutch... or do they?</p></blockquote><p>I took mine off for awhile to be fair, I'm now going to put it back on till broken abilities are fixed. If other people are going to take advantage of OP things, then I'm going to. Elemental Toxicity and a few other spells are completely stupid.</p>

DngrMou
03-04-2010, 03:48 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just offer the same items on the BG merchant, I know for a fact that these amazing pvp players dont need random pieces of gear as a crutch... or do they?</p></blockquote><p>I took mine off for awhile to be fair, I'm now going to put it back on till broken abilities are fixed. If other people are going to take advantage of OP things, then I'm going to. Elemental Toxicity and a few other spells are completely stupid.</p></blockquote><p>Then I'm equipping all my various hax.  Fair is fair!  /fist</p>

ailen
03-04-2010, 04:06 PM
<p>People, people lets be rational here.</p><p>Make all things equal and you will see who is the better player.  For a long long time it was only feasable for scouts to get PVP gear, and most of them would rather solo than allow support classes like tanks/healers/mages *yeah that's all those classes were on a pvp server* so in the end the scouts ganked better because they had the best gear.  Comedy isn't it?</p><p>Now they dumbed the token system down enough that everyone only sit in an open world zone and zerg each other with no notion of actual tactics or gameplay with complete disregard for dying at all (because there's no downside to dying) to get gear in a crazy easy way...  That sort of levelled the playing field. And now players that were good yet lacked the time or desire to PVP at the pace some others could afford got gear.  This made it so the playing field was a bit more even, even on par with raid geared guilds who I know for a fact some of them sucked completely at PVP before they got a nice set of gear *skill or gear?* </p><p>Now we're afforded something special in battlegrounds in that you can maybe WANT to do, if they'd just fix resists and the mechanism that builds groups randomly to consider yah at least 1 tank and at least 1 healer pls...  we could make something completely competitive across all servers.  I say give them the opportunity to get these few items *such as the banshee hoop* or take them away from the Nagafen players.  Crap most of the people on Nagafen didn't earn them in a way that was any harder than queue'ing up and collecting the gear. </p><p>I see the chat channels on Nagafen people crying about no more open world PVP.  I'm not sure people have been paying attention but open world pvp was dead long ago and the only reason people were getting it recently is because a new expansion came out that raised the level cap.  Most of the hardcore people crying about it, ground to 90 in a few days so they could be ahead of the curve and gank the crap out of the questers.  What's so competitive about that?</p><p>I'm about as old school a Nagafen player as you can find rolling my shadowknight the first day of the server *which by the way collects dust* as its the FOTM class that everyone plays now .. so disgraceful.  Which brings me to another point about overpowered classes.  THEY'RE ALL overpowered at the moment except maybe a Necro/Guardian.. you could even argue the Zerker is overpowered now given enough AA and gear.  Healers never die, Crusaders do too much dps for their survivability, scouts are hurting right now but i think that's a gear issue because of the stat changes, wizards and warlocks can nearly 1 shot anyone .. as well as a conjurer.</p><p>FIX the game, make it fair, remove the items from BGs or give them to the other servers.  That is the only FAIR thing to do in order to make things more competitive.  Quit talking about what you did in the past.  MMOs change, there were no battlegrounds when that gear came out.  Now there is.  Worry about what you're doing today, Nagafen isn't the only server entitled to this gear.  If they can't have it, remove it.</p>

Scatimus
03-04-2010, 04:14 PM
<p>Those of us on Nagafen have been doing this for years.  We dont duel 1v1, we dont seek out fair fights and let those who are less skilled float by unharmed. We kill people.  Green, blue, yellow, orange, red....it doesnt make a difference. </p><p>Our AA specs are set up to get the best defense we can in PvP while offering us the most damage. </p><p>I've seen wizards on the battle ground never hit manashield and laughed.  I dont know any wizards on nagafen that dont have manashield speced for their pvp aa spec. </p><p>A lot of us carry a bag in our pack that is full of fear, stun, elemental, noxious, arcane, root, etc. pots.  Along with the redemtion of failure and most of the other status merchant stuff.  We dont just carry this bag to raids, we carry it all the time.</p><p>It will take time for most of the blue servers to learn how to pvp and learn that it is not a fair fight each time, its not a duel and not each player is equal...................at all.</p><p>Just as the players on nagafen have learned that every few months a class that was a god is now a joke, the best gear last week in now terrible and we will be ganked by raid forces as a solo player.</p><p>enjoy it or dont play it.  two choices.</p>

Crismorn
03-04-2010, 04:35 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Those of us on Nagafen have been doing this for years.  We dont duel 1v1, we dont seek out fair fights and let those who are less skilled float by unharmed. We kill people.  Green, blue, yellow, orange, red....it doesnt make a difference. </p><p>Our AA specs are set up to get the best defense we can in PvP while offering us the most damage. </p><p>I've seen wizards on the battle ground never hit manashield and laughed.  I dont know any wizards on nagafen that dont have manashield speced for their pvp aa spec. </p><p>A lot of us carry a bag in our pack that is full of fear, stun, elemental, noxious, arcane, root, etc. pots.  Along with the redemtion of failure and most of the other status merchant stuff.  We dont just carry this bag to raids, we carry it all the time.</p><p>It will take time for most of the blue servers to learn how to pvp and learn that it is not a fair fight each time, its not a duel and not each player is equal...................at all.</p><p>Just as the players on nagafen have learned that every few months a class that was a god is now a joke, the best gear last week in now terrible and we will be ganked by raid forces as a solo player.</p><p>enjoy it or dont play it.  two choices.</p></blockquote><p>This is not about aa specs or consumables that everyone in this game can aquire, we are talking about items that can ONLY be obtained from nagafen merchants but they can be used in BG's vs every other server.</p>

Scatimus
03-04-2010, 04:55 PM
<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Those of us on Nagafen have been doing this for years.  We dont duel 1v1, we dont seek out fair fights and let those who are less skilled float by unharmed. We kill people.  Green, blue, yellow, orange, red....it doesnt make a difference. </p><p>Our AA specs are set up to get the best defense we can in PvP while offering us the most damage. </p><p>I've seen wizards on the battle ground never hit manashield and laughed.  I dont know any wizards on nagafen that dont have manashield speced for their pvp aa spec. </p><p>A lot of us carry a bag in our pack that is full of fear, stun, elemental, noxious, arcane, root, etc. pots.  Along with the redemtion of failure and most of the other status merchant stuff.  We dont just carry this bag to raids, we carry it all the time.</p><p>It will take time for most of the blue servers to learn how to pvp and learn that it is not a fair fight each time, its not a duel and not each player is equal...................at all.</p><p>Just as the players on nagafen have learned that every few months a class that was a god is now a joke, the best gear last week in now terrible and we will be ganked by raid forces as a solo player.</p><p>enjoy it or dont play it.  two choices.</p></blockquote><p>This is not about aa specs or consumables that everyone in this game can aquire, we are talking about items that can ONLY be obtained from nagafen merchants but they can be used in BG's vs every other server.</p></blockquote><p>they can disable our procs, thats fine with me.  Nagafen will still destroy other servers, until they learn to pvp.  It also does have a lot to do with aa spec and consumables and knowledge of how to pvp.</p><p>What next, no raid gear for those who dont raid?  No mastercrafted for those who have no money?  A (insert class here), because it is hard to kill that class?</p><p>There is never going to be a "Fair" in this, welcome to pvp, read our forums and see all the "no fair no fair" threads.  They are endless.  enjoy it or dont play it.</p>

Hirofortis
03-04-2010, 05:11 PM
<p>How about just give the PVE people access to the same PVP gear and then we will see how it changes. Yea, tehre will be a small learning curve, but in the end, gear is a deciding factor.</p>

Putyo
03-04-2010, 05:23 PM
<p>I didnt realize the fear earring made you lose 1500 to 250 in the x4?</p><p>There was a guild on Nagafen that was exiled (which meant no pvp gear whatsoever) and they were by far the number 1 pvp guild on the server for over 2 years..how do you explain that?</p>

Crismorn
03-04-2010, 05:42 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Those of us on Nagafen have been doing this for years.  We dont duel 1v1, we dont seek out fair fights and let those who are less skilled float by unharmed. We kill people.  Green, blue, yellow, orange, red....it doesnt make a difference. </p><p>Our AA specs are set up to get the best defense we can in PvP while offering us the most damage. </p><p>I've seen wizards on the battle ground never hit manashield and laughed.  I dont know any wizards on nagafen that dont have manashield speced for their pvp aa spec. </p><p>A lot of us carry a bag in our pack that is full of fear, stun, elemental, noxious, arcane, root, etc. pots.  Along with the redemtion of failure and most of the other status merchant stuff.  We dont just carry this bag to raids, we carry it all the time.</p><p>It will take time for most of the blue servers to learn how to pvp and learn that it is not a fair fight each time, its not a duel and not each player is equal...................at all.</p><p>Just as the players on nagafen have learned that every few months a class that was a god is now a joke, the best gear last week in now terrible and we will be ganked by raid forces as a solo player.</p><p>enjoy it or dont play it.  two choices.</p></blockquote><p>This is not about aa specs or consumables that everyone in this game can aquire, we are talking about items that can ONLY be obtained from nagafen merchants but they can be used in BG's vs every other server.</p></blockquote><p>they can disable our procs, thats fine with me.  Nagafen will still destroy other servers, until they learn to pvp.  It also does have a lot to do with aa spec and consumables and knowledge of how to pvp.</p><p>What next, no raid gear for those who dont raid?  No mastercrafted for those who have no money?  A (insert class here), because it is hard to kill that class?</p><p>There is never going to be a "Fair" in this, welcome to pvp, read our forums and see all the "no fair no fair" threads.  They are endless.  enjoy it or dont play it.</p></blockquote><p>All of those are available to everyone in eq2.</p><p>Pvp items are not, I dont know how this is so difficult for you to understand so Ill try and break it down for you.</p><p>You can raid on nagafen, You can raid on every other server</p><p>You can craft on nagafen, You can also craft on every other server</p><p>You can get consumables on nagafen, You can also get consumables on every other server</p><p>You can get pvp jewelery on nagafen, you cannot get these pieces on pve only servers.</p><p>I can change the color of my writing if that would help you in the future to understand the difference between being able to do something and not being able to do something.</p>

Crismorn
03-04-2010, 05:45 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I didnt realize the fear earring made you lose 1500 to 250 in the x4?</p><p>There was a guild on Nagafen that was exiled (which meant no pvp gear whatsoever) and they were by far the number 1 pvp guild on the server for over 2 years..how do you explain that?</p></blockquote><p>I did not realize you needed an earring to be able to beat people who have never pvp'd before, I figured the last 2-4 years of pvp experience would give you enough leet skills to overcome our mob killing ability looks like I could be wrong.</p><p>Im sure you guys will keep owning random pug's even if they have access to the same gear you have, it just might be more of a challenge</p>

Putyo
03-04-2010, 05:56 PM
<p>So why dont you form a stacked 6man and come kill us instead of crying about an earring on the forums?</p>

rebyenliv
03-04-2010, 06:10 PM
<p>As a priest I would love to have that fear proc <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

LivelyHound
03-04-2010, 06:24 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So why dont you form a stacked 6man and come kill us instead of crying about an earring on the forums?</p></blockquote><p>We did it was funny</p>

Neskonlith
03-04-2010, 06:39 PM
<p><cite>rebyenlives wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>As a priest I would love to have that fear proc <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">My bet is that it will soon be available on the upcoming expanded merchant once the 70-79 BeeGees go live, as that healer earring is a lvl80 reward item.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Once that patches in, there will finally be equal access for all!</span></p>

Naggasaki
03-04-2010, 07:59 PM
<p>Someone else said this and I can't find the post to quote it but I'll do it anyway. "epiclulz, this post is epiclulz"</p><p>The ONLY reason I wear my PvP gear into BG is because there are other PvP players in there wearing PvP gear. I would gladly put on my TSO set and show some of these 'Bluebies' (amazing how that has become a derogatory term) how to PvP.  But the simple fact of the matter is this, Onyx owned PvP in pure PvE gear for a long time. And most of them STILL aren't wearing any PvP gear. But the gear is all the difference right? If my SK didn't have that ring, he wouldn't be able to roll you time and time and time again because I know how to use my debuffs, taunts, FD to clear your target, stuns, stifles, interrupts and AA spec to rip your face off? COME ON! If it is such a HUGE deal to have t-8 pvp gear, come to nagafen and level lock a toon at 70 and pvp until you get enough tokens to buy your full set of TSO and RoK PvP gear. ... wait, nvm, there's noone in that tier now.</p><p>Learn to play your classes and learn to communicate. Plain and simple. One additional thing, stop thinking of PvP encounters like an epic mob.</p>

Thunndar316
03-04-2010, 08:59 PM
<p>"Bluebie" Swash taking down a Nagafin SK</p><p>Priceless</p>

Avirodar
03-04-2010, 09:36 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Someone else said this and I can't find the post to quote it but I'll do it anyway. "epiclulz, this post is epiclulz"</p><p>The ONLY reason I wear my PvP gear into BG is because there are other PvP players in there wearing PvP gear. I would gladly put on my TSO set and show some of these 'Bluebies' (amazing how that has become a derogatory term) how to PvP.</p></blockquote><p>I guess the first thing you would show us, when showing how to PvP, would be a real PvP game? As far as the gaming world of PvP is concerned, EQ2 as a whole is a bluebies game, Nagafen included.  If EQ2 is your choice for hardcore PvP action, I can understand why you need any advantage you can get, and will get all in a huff trying to keep the edge the scrubs on your server have over non-PvP players.</p>

Slaspen
03-04-2010, 09:52 PM
From what I seen so far it is not as much the gear the nagafen players have, it is their skill. I meet alot of Nagafen players with full pvp gear that was an easy match, while others make it look like a slaughterhouse. Pvp is never fair, someone always have an advantage and there is always a weakness you can find. Just deal with it and analyze what they do and try to figure out a way to deal with it. The harder it is, the more challange it is... more challange is always more fun imho.

Rotate
03-04-2010, 09:55 PM
<p>I am from naggy.. and i would love from them to take out the fear proc pvp gear.. and detarget proc pvp gear from the game! awlays has been op, the fear procs on healers.  A real big annoyince every auto  attack sometimes getting feared...    Peeps that dont think this is a big advantage are just dumb..  sec i start beating on a healer in BG i can tell if its from a pvp sever or not.. lol</p>

asaron
03-04-2010, 10:02 PM
<p>lol this thread has become a flame fest no kiara in sight lock it  do eeet not that it will matter  another bluebie this isnt fair thread will pop up</p>

Avirodar
03-04-2010, 10:10 PM
<p><cite>asaron wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>lol this thread has become a flame fest no kiara in sight lock it  do eeet not that it will matter  another bluebie this isnt fair thread will pop up</p></blockquote><p>You neglect the fact that even players from PVP servers are admitting how overpowered some of the proc gear is, that is ONLY available to people who play PVP servers. The new BG jewlery does not compete with several T8 proc items.I kept it short and sweet, in hope you will grasp the core concept.</p>

KatrinaDeath
03-04-2010, 10:21 PM
<p>Fear earring...</p><p>Is it OP?... Yes</p><p>Did I earn it?... Yes (Debatable, I certainally obtained it somehow)</p><p>Do I wear it?... Yes</p><p>Will I complain if they take it away?... Nope</p>

Am
03-04-2010, 10:31 PM
Adding gear/bonuses > removing items from game.

Thunndar316
03-04-2010, 11:03 PM
<p>Proc gear should be nerfed especially the fear BS</p><p>Talk about cheap</p>

Delrog
03-04-2010, 11:54 PM
<p>Ok i just wanna make a few points here.</p><p>1. Your defense that Onyx was the best pvp guild even with TSO raid gear is horriblely off base. They have tons of skilled players but when they were taking on x4 raids of Qs and FPs they were doing that pre toughness. TSO raid gear had tons of crit mit so it really didnt make a difference before toughness.</p><p>2. The t8 pvp proc stuff isnt horriblely OP, but everyone should have a level playing field in pvp so give the bluebies access to it and quit acting like your so much better then them.</p><p>3. Who cares how easy it is to get BG gear. Getting gear through pvp should never be your reason to pvp while on a pvp server. It should be to test your skills against a live thinking oppent and to have that added element of danger when your out in the open world. So quit QQ'ing about how easy it is to get the gear.</p><p>Thats about all i gotta say about this thread. Just enjoy the game.</p><p>Akkuma - Nagafen</p>

Naggasaki
03-05-2010, 12:13 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Someone else said this and I can't find the post to quote it but I'll do it anyway. "epiclulz, this post is epiclulz"</p><p>The ONLY reason I wear my PvP gear into BG is because there are other PvP players in there wearing PvP gear. I would gladly put on my TSO set and show some of these 'Bluebies' (amazing how that has become a derogatory term) how to PvP.</p></blockquote><p>I guess the first thing you would show us, when showing how to PvP, would be a real PvP game? As far as the gaming world of PvP is concerned, EQ2 as a whole is a bluebies game, Nagafen included.  If EQ2 is your choice for hardcore PvP action, I can understand why you need any advantage you can get, and will get all in a huff trying to keep the edge the scrubs on your server have over non-PvP players.</p></blockquote><p>But it's the game we play is it not? Even if it isn't the most 'hardcore' pvp game out there...it's the one we're talking about. So please, try not to digress the topic and flood this with 'Ultima' or w/e game you care to reference. TYVMKTHXBAI!</p>

Jasuo
03-05-2010, 12:20 AM
<p>But he's right, trying to call eq2 pvp real pvp and pretend it's hard to mash buttons is laughable at best.</p><p>Just open some of that proc gear up to the "bluebies" who feel they need it to even compete so they quit qq'ing.</p>

Thunndar316
03-05-2010, 12:27 AM
<p><cite>Jasuo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>But he's right, trying to call eq2 pvp real pvp and pretend it's hard to mash buttons is laughable at best.</p><p>Just open some of that proc gear up to the "bluebies" who feel they need it to even compete so they quit qq'ing.</p></blockquote><p>If both sides have it available then it's even.</p><p>One side having it is not balanced.  Balance the gear or but the redberries on their own battlegrounds</p>

Naggasaki
03-05-2010, 12:39 AM
<p>Ok, let them have access to it. The same access we have. As in, you have to be between lvl 70-79 to get it. Because we had to be in t-8 to buy it. We can no longer get t-8 writs for t-8 tokens once you break the lvl 80 mark now. So w/e. It's NEVER going to be a fair fight.</p>

Avirodar
03-05-2010, 01:33 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ok, let them have access to it. The same access we have. As in, you have to be between lvl 70-79 to get it. Because we had to be in t-8 to buy it. We can no longer get t-8 writs for t-8 tokens once you break the lvl 80 mark now. So w/e. It's NEVER going to be a fair fight.</p></blockquote><p>You speak as if the cap on the PVP servers was not 80, for the prior 2.25 years.</p>

Befallen_Valgav
03-05-2010, 02:04 AM
<p>Im not one to complain normally...doesnt do much good. But come on the pvp armor with the procs and all that....well...its a bit unfair. But what are you going to do. We can sit here and cry, whine, moan and complain about it. Doesnt do much good. Nothing is going to change.</p><p>My only hope is eventually I will be able to match them with the pvp gear. I think the procs should be taken out (the fear proc in particular) but hey whatever. if its not oh well....do I think its a cheap way to get and advantage on someone..yup.</p><p>I played on Naggy and some players there do have skill. The ones that kill me are the ones that have to kill someone 4 or 8 on 1 and call that skill. So sayin they are from Naggy and have pvp skills doesnt always fly.</p><p>Anywho..>I need to shut my pie hole now....too tired and a bit tipsy to think straight. Let the flames begin <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>We all need to suck it up and deal with it. Dont think its gonna change anytime soon</p>

Notsovilepriest
03-05-2010, 02:18 AM
<p>Lets Dole out Avatar gear on the same vendor the PvP items you guys want are on, since you know...we had to literally fight for them unlike you blue server people.</p>

MindFury
03-05-2010, 06:05 AM
<p>Recently I've been feeling as if SoE is attempting to kill off the game, their inability to come up with new and exciting concepts, their lack of communication with their customers, their inability to fix bugs years old, etc etc etc...the more I read this thread, the more I understand it's not really SoE killing this game, it's the players you see here whining. Demanding they get what they want, when they want it, and acting like babies if they don't get it.</p><p>What is so [Removed for Content] hard for you ppl to understand? you're not on a pvp server, you have no "right" to pvp gear found on pvp servers. You're in battlegrounds, and SoE has been kind enough to give you the ability to obtain battleground gear, the same [Removed for Content] gear the rest of us have to obtain and use. It's been stated over and over and over again we can no longer obtain any of those old rok or tso pieces once we lvl and have to start using the new pvp writs, thus only granting us the same [Removed for Content] gear you have available to you. And it's been clearly stated over and over and over again that the number one ranking guild on this server pvp wise and pve wise has been a pve guild, stomping everyone in their path with nothing but pve gear, despite going against folks with these so called op pvp pieces, they sure the hell figured out how to work around the crap, the rest of us sure the hell have had to learn to work around it, you can [Removed for Content] well do the same. Where do you feel you deserve special treatment and easy access gear, simply because you're choosing as a bluebie, to enter these new battlegrounds?</p><p>You're attempting to demand the same gear we've had on OUR server (s) for yrs. Despite the fact you do not play on them. As it is, if you're allowed to wear your battle grounds gear which is clearly pvp oriented, around your lil bluebie servers, don't ya suppose those bluebies on your servers are going to start whining they don't have it available to them, unless they are in their opinion "forced" to pvp, which they clearly have no interest in, or they'd have the same gear..see the point here...</p><p>You want it? roll a [Removed for Content] pvp toon. otherwise stop the whining, learn to play your class to its fullest potential, use your battleground gear SoE was kind enough to provide, learn to play against these classes just like the rest of us have, or don't go in to the battle grounds, it's that [Removed for Content] easy. No one forces you to go in, no one's holding a gun to your head making you face any class with pvp gear from prior tiers, you're in there by choice. Deal with it or get lost. Stop trying to demand the same crap we worked yrs to obtain, long before bg's even existed. Stop thinking you have a right to something that doesn't even exist on your server, nor does it have a place on your server. These items were designed for pvp servers, with pvp in mind.</p><p>I however have no issue with SoE opening these items to lvl 70-79's in battle grounds to be used ONLY in battle grounds. So maybe by the time you roll a toon, get it to 70 and lock it down...perhaps SoE will grant you whiners ur request and allow 70-79's in battle grounds, access to the full range of pvp gear we work hard to obtain on a pvp server. Hell if you whine enough, they may even let you use it on your lil bluebie servers. Seems they are already allowing bg gear there..what's one more small step...</p>

rebyenliv
03-05-2010, 06:17 AM
<p><cite>MindFury wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p> Where do you feel you deserve special treatment and easy access gear, simply because you're choosing as a bluebie, to enter these new battlegrounds?</p></blockquote><p>Really it's not even that hard to get pvp gear on Nagafen.. BG's are only easier because there isn't a lockout timer like writs. </p>

Armawk
03-05-2010, 06:46 AM
<p><cite>MindFury wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>What is so [Removed for Content] hard for you ppl to understand? you're not on a pvp server, you have no "right" to pvp gear found on pvp servers. You're in battlegrounds, and SoE has been kind enough to give you the ability to obtain battleground gear, the same [Removed for Content] gear the rest of us have to obtain and use. </p></blockquote><p>No we are not on a PvP server, so keep your attitude for there and stop acting like a bad stereotype.</p><p>Sony has been 'kind enough'? what does that even mean? Sony is providing rewards it thinks will entice people to play battlegrounds and give them competitiveness.</p><p>People generally think that neither PvE nor PvP players should have access to important gear that those competing against them have no way to access. This is a point so stupendously obvious that a lot of Nagafen players are supporting it. We are on a battlegrounds server and everyone should have access to the gear used on that battleground server. In principle they should make your PvP armour drop off on entry, but that would be really rough on nagafen players so sony were KIND enough to allow you to use it and provide roughly equivalent gear to everyone else.. except for these items which were overlooked and one would hope will  be addressed soon. Should you be aware of effects not available to PvPers please tell us so we can ask for them to go too.</p><p>If it isnt important gear then you won't mind it not working.. so why are you getting so worked up? Maybe you have been hiding behind your gear for too long and are starting to get nervous now the guild groups from kithicor and bayle are getting their act together and starting to put you to bed on a regular basis?</p>

Scatimus
03-05-2010, 10:44 AM
<p>so last night i decided to see what all the huff was about and take off all my pvp gear and use only my pve gear, including all jewelery.  I still owned you and i actually did more damage, so you died quicker.  I went up against some good groups, but the only group we lost to was an onyx grop with a guy from my guild in it, lol.  That one would have been better if our healer didnt go LD in the beginning of the fight.</p><p>I took note of how a lot of the blue players played.  Hiding in a corner (but i can still see you)..you die.  Running right at the group with no one from your group around you...you die before you even get the our group, then we laugh.  Sending your pet in on us, lol..pet dies.</p><p>I didnt change my playstyle, just play clothes and i did more damage.</p><p>I did 10 or 15 BGs last night and i died less than 10 times.</p>

Avirodar
03-05-2010, 11:33 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>so last night i decided to see what all the huff was about and take off all my pvp gear and use only my pve gear, including all jewelery.  I still owned you and i actually did more damage, so you died quicker.  I went up against some good groups, but the only group we lost to was an onyx grop with a guy from my guild in it, lol.  That one would have been better if our healer didnt go LD in the beginning of the fight.</p><p>I took note of how a lot of the blue players played.  Hiding in a corner (but i can still see you)..you die.  Running right at the group with no one from your group around you...you die before you even get the our group, then we laugh.  Sending your pet in on us, lol..pet dies.</p><p>I didnt change my playstyle, just play clothes and i did more damage.</p><p>I did 10 or 15 BGs last night and i died less than 10 times.</p></blockquote><p>I got a laugh out of some of that.   "I still owned you".Sounds to me like all you done was hide like a girl behind the rest of your PVP-geared group.</p>

Costa
03-05-2010, 12:19 PM
<p>Ok it still seems to read like people from Naggy are banging on about how pve players lack any skill over naggy players so let me re iterate the point that i made in a previouse post. 5 man group, no healer and with 1 person from naggy who is tank (me) against 6 man group with a healer from naggy who has the fear proc everyone is so concerned about.</p><p>The 5 man group wins the instance, why because the 5 man group stayed to gether killed their targets and out dps'd the healers capacity and ripped him apart. My Zerk has 4 pieces of t8 pvp armor and none of the annoying deagro jewlery or forced lock shield.</p><p>Like others have said give you the jewlery for the 70-79 range if you so desperatly want it but untill the majority of the pve players learn to pvp your still going to lose. If you can't figure out how to over come these problems now you probably never will and fyi the healer died easily once the rest of his group was dead even with an annoying item equiped.</p>

Naggasaki
03-05-2010, 12:24 PM
<p><cite>rebyenlives wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>MindFury wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p> Where do you feel you deserve special treatment and easy access gear, simply because you're choosing as a bluebie, to enter these new battlegrounds?</p></blockquote><p>Really it's not even that hard to get pvp gear on Nagafen.. BG's are only easier because there isn't a lockout timer like writs. </p></blockquote><p>If it's not that hard to get, why am I suffering from a Lack of Targets? Because everyone is going GA GA over BG's right now. I refuse to get my PvP gear by 'only' running BG's. I have more BG tokens from LOSING matches than I do PvP tokens from dying in Overworld PvP. You know why? Because in Overworld PvP, if I lose, I LOSE!! I don't get a handy 'parting gift' telling me 'it's ok, the world still loves you even though you suck'. </p>

Avirodar
03-05-2010, 01:23 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ok it still seems to read like people from Naggy are banging on about how pve players lack any skill over naggy players so let me re iterate the point that i made in a previouse post. 5 man group, no healer and with 1 person from naggy who is tank (me) against 6 man group with a healer from naggy who has the fear proc everyone is so concerned about.</p><p>The 5 man group wins the instance, why because the 5 man group stayed to gether killed their targets and out dps'd the healers capacity and ripped him apart. My Zerk has 4 pieces of t8 pvp armor and none of the annoying deagro jewlery or forced lock shield.</p><p>Like others have said give you the jewlery for the 70-79 range if you so desperatly want it but untill the majority of the pve players learn to pvp your still going to lose. If you can't figure out how to over come these problems now you probably never will and fyi the healer died easily once the rest of his group was dead even with an annoying item equiped.</p></blockquote><p>Your example fails to take into account several things. For all we know you could have been in a solid group that went up against a bunch of noobs who only have their fabled epic (if that), had no competent tank, and had 1 or 2 people who always felt the urge to run around solo.  A group of 5 good players from a PVE server will be able to trounce a group of 6 average joes from a PVE server, especially if they do not play as a team. What would it prove? Nothing.So in short, the example you gave is worthless.Speaking from first hand experience, I do not have the fear earring, but as a healer, I have been standing in the midst of combat both offensively and defensively, taking hits from all over the place, sometimes for considerable durations of time. If I had the fear proc item equipped, it would trigger countless times, providing notable benefit for not just myself, but my team. If it was a close matchup and hard fought battle, it is entirely viable for the fear proc earring to be the difference between success and failure.</p>

Scatimus
03-05-2010, 01:49 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>so last night i decided to see what all the huff was about and take off all my pvp gear and use only my pve gear, including all jewelery.  I still owned you and i actually did more damage, so you died quicker.  I went up against some good groups, but the only group we lost to was an onyx grop with a guy from my guild in it, lol.  That one would have been better if our healer didnt go LD in the beginning of the fight.</p><p>I took note of how a lot of the blue players played.  Hiding in a corner (but i can still see you)..you die.  Running right at the group with no one from your group around you...you die before you even get the our group, then we laugh.  Sending your pet in on us, lol..pet dies.</p><p>I didnt change my playstyle, just play clothes and i did more damage.</p><p>I did 10 or 15 BGs last night and i died less than 10 times.</p></blockquote><p>I got a laugh out of some of that.   "I still owned you".Sounds to me like all you done was hide like a girl behind the rest of your PVP-geared group.</p></blockquote><p>yeah that must be what i did.  how exactly did you come to this conclusion?  is it because that is what you have to do to survive or is it because that what helps you sleep at night, lol.  i will rephrase what i said earlier.  I should have stated that i along with most of my group (at least 3 others in the group) had our pve gear on, to see what all the complaining and crying was about.</p><p>you guys, for the most part, do not know how to pvp.  that is why you are getting owned.  most of you dont have the right aa setup.  a lot of the mages are still running around without manashield.  it is going to take you guys time to learn how to pvp.  this is not a duel, there is no completely "fair" fight.</p><p>I dont know why the blue servers just cant accept that pvp players are better than them at pvp.  you have to learn how to work as a pvp group.  the mindset is completely different.</p>

Costa
03-05-2010, 02:00 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ok it still seems to read like people from Naggy are banging on about how pve players lack any skill over naggy players so let me re iterate the point that i made in a previouse post. 5 man group, no healer and with 1 person from naggy who is tank (me) against 6 man group with a healer from naggy who has the fear proc everyone is so concerned about.</p><p>The 5 man group wins the instance, why because the 5 man group stayed to gether killed their targets and out dps'd the healers capacity and ripped him apart. My Zerk has 4 pieces of t8 pvp armor and none of the annoying deagro jewlery or forced lock shield.</p><p>Like others have said give you the jewlery for the 70-79 range if you so desperatly want it but untill the majority of the pve players learn to pvp your still going to lose. If you can't figure out how to over come these problems now you probably never will and fyi the healer died easily once the rest of his group was dead even with an annoying item equiped.</p></blockquote><p>Your example fails to take into account several things. For all we know you could have been in a solid group that went up against a bunch of noobs who only have their fabled epic (if that), had no competent tank, and had 1 or 2 people who always felt the urge to run around solo.  A group of 5 good players from a PVE server will be able to trounce a group of 6 average joes from a PVE server, especially if they do not play as a team. What would it prove? Nothing.So in short, the example you gave is worthless.Speaking from first hand experience, I do not have the fear earring, but as a healer, I have been standing in the midst of combat both offensively and defensively, taking hits from all over the place, sometimes for considerable durations of time. If I had the fear proc item equipped, it would trigger countless times, providing notable benefit for not just myself, but my team. If it was a close matchup and hard fought battle, it is entirely viable for the fear proc earring to be the difference between success and failure.</p></blockquote><p>Your right my example could be worthless apart for the fact that the healer we were against did have this item that everyone is crying over. A fear proc is easy to deal with and in a close thought pvp fight generally people using dots is all it takes to break it if pots are on cool down. The difference is the fear proc did nothing to save this healer or his group. As for other items that are annoying i've been hit in BG's by a zone wide stun that is incurable and i'm sure that wasn't off of some pvp item. There are items available out there that benefit all kinds of people but the point of the matter is if you play a dps class or tank class you have to learn to adjust and kill other people when these procs go off, not come crying to the boards that the item is op and you stand no chance. I've seen healers without the earring solo heal against groups and 'the zerg' although they certainly had to work harder to keep their group alive.</p><p>Like i said before if the devs want to add this item they need to add it to the same teir we get it on PVP which is t8. I'm sure any half decent healers out there will be looking to upgrade the item at hand when something better comes along and if there is no better item in game then the devs need to look at that. Personally speaking as a fighter i would love to see that item done away with as its very frustrating to be getting an advantage over them only to get feared and have to start again, but it is possable to work around it so i don't cry that i want it or if i can't get it then nobody should have it.</p><p>What have BG's been open for, 2 weeks? There are a few things that a lot of pve players fail to do when in bg's and even people on pvp servers will be guilty of it. Working as a group regardless of the people your against with the tanks protecting the healer and other group members is high priority.  Classes playing their role rather than trying something different is a good place to start also. Actually speaking to one another to co-ordinate efforts will make a big differnce. Learning how to counter other players gear as well as racial effects is paramount if you want to last any length of time. I've had guild mates come out of BG's and say the warden in their group told them all they were melee speced so don't expect too many heals. WHY??? Wardens can be one of the strongest healers in pvp if they set them selves up to just heal. Youve got possably 5 other people in the group that is looking to dps why does the healer think they'll be any benefit if they don't heal anyone? Thats like me taking my tank against an epic mob and rolling in cloth and all dps gear because i cn get a few hundred more dps out of him.</p><p>Anyway i'm starting to digress but i think the point is simple. Procs from gear are stupidly annoying for everyone on the receiving end or not fair due to them not having them but can be dealt with if you gear for it. Working as a group rather than solo's and having people play their class rather than trying to be something they are not.</p>

Ahlana
03-05-2010, 02:02 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>rebyenlives wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>MindFury wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p> Where do you feel you deserve special treatment and easy access gear, simply because you're choosing as a bluebie, to enter these new battlegrounds?</p></blockquote><p>Really it's not even that hard to get pvp gear on Nagafen.. BG's are only easier because there isn't a lockout timer like writs. </p></blockquote><p>If it's not that hard to get, why am I suffering from a Lack of Targets? Because everyone is going GA GA over BG's right now. I refuse to get my PvP gear by 'only' running BG's. I have more BG tokens from LOSING matches than I do PvP tokens from dying in Overworld PvP. You know why? Because in Overworld PvP, if I lose, I LOSE!! I don't get a handy 'parting gift' telling me 'it's ok, the world still loves you even though you suck'. </p></blockquote><p>Not true at all in the Zerg you do indeed get tokens for losing. You die and someone else kills the guy you were on and DING DING DING.. you get your update. You don't even have to be grouped.. you run in AE hit alot of people then die and wait for SOMEONE ELSE to kill them and you are $$.</p><p>Once everyone has gotten to 90 with their mains and alts the Zerg will startup again and it is by far easier and faster to get gear that way than in the BGs.</p>

Crismorn
03-05-2010, 03:15 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>so last night i decided to see what all the huff was about and take off all my pvp gear and use only my pve gear, including all jewelery.  I still owned you and i actually did more damage, so you died quicker.  I went up against some good groups, but the only group we lost to was an onyx grop with a guy from my guild in it, lol.  That one would have been better if our healer didnt go LD in the beginning of the fight.</p><p>I took note of how a lot of the blue players played.  Hiding in a corner (but i can still see you)..you die.  Running right at the group with no one from your group around you...you die before you even get the our group, then we laugh.  Sending your pet in on us, lol..pet dies.</p><p>I didnt change my playstyle, just play clothes and i did more damage.</p><p>I did 10 or 15 BGs last night and i died less than 10 times.</p></blockquote><p>I got a laugh out of some of that.   "I still owned you".Sounds to me like all you done was hide like a girl behind the rest of your PVP-geared group.</p></blockquote><p>LOL</p><p>Those are the pvp "tactics" I've been reading about</p>

Naggasaki
03-05-2010, 04:07 PM
<p><cite>Ahlana wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>rebyenlives wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>MindFury wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p> Where do you feel you deserve special treatment and easy access gear, simply because you're choosing as a bluebie, to enter these new battlegrounds?</p></blockquote><p>Really it's not even that hard to get pvp gear on Nagafen.. BG's are only easier because there isn't a lockout timer like writs. </p></blockquote><p>If it's not that hard to get, why am I suffering from a Lack of Targets? Because everyone is going GA GA over BG's right now. I refuse to get my PvP gear by 'only' running BG's. I have more BG tokens from LOSING matches than I do PvP tokens from dying in Overworld PvP. You know why? Because in Overworld PvP, if I lose, I LOSE!! I don't get a handy 'parting gift' telling me 'it's ok, the world still loves you even though you suck'. </p></blockquote><p>Not true at all in the Zerg you do indeed get tokens for losing. You die and someone else kills the guy you were on and DING DING DING.. you get your update. You don't even have to be grouped.. you run in AE hit alot of people then die and wait for SOMEONE ELSE to kill them and you are $$.</p><p>Once everyone has gotten to 90 with their mains and alts the Zerg will startup again and it is by far easier and faster to get gear that way than in the BGs.</p></blockquote><p>Yeah, I suppose you are correct about the 'zerg' thing. But there is no zerg atm and i'm almost at my BP now. Without participating in the 'zerg in a box' exclusively. It's taking me longer because there are fewer targets. Because everyone is GA GA over BG's. Either way, saves me from having to deal with the 'gank squads' of old...and to come. =) My point was in reference to the current situation, not the KP of months past. Sorry for not being clear.</p>

Muraazi
03-05-2010, 04:51 PM
<p>I just wanna know... Was Tony Danza really a wizard? Cuz [Removed for Content] I always had my suspicions.</p>

Shade Slayer
03-05-2010, 11:43 PM
<p><cite>Ahlana wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>rebyenlives wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>MindFury wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p> Where do you feel you deserve special treatment and easy access gear, simply because you're choosing as a bluebie, to enter these new battlegrounds?</p></blockquote><p>Really it's not even that hard to get pvp gear on Nagafen.. BG's are only easier because there isn't a lockout timer like writs. </p></blockquote><p>If it's not that hard to get, why am I suffering from a Lack of Targets? Because everyone is going GA GA over BG's right now. I refuse to get my PvP gear by 'only' running BG's. I have more BG tokens from LOSING matches than I do PvP tokens from dying in Overworld PvP. You know why? Because in Overworld PvP, if I lose, I LOSE!! I don't get a handy 'parting gift' telling me 'it's ok, the world still loves you even though you suck'. </p></blockquote><p>Not true at all in the Zerg you do indeed get tokens for losing. You die and someone else kills the guy you were on and DING DING DING.. you get your update. You don't even have to be grouped.. you run in AE hit alot of people then die and wait for SOMEONE ELSE to kill them and you are $$.</p><p>Once everyone has gotten to 90 with their mains and alts the Zerg will startup again and it is by far easier and faster to get gear that way than in the BGs.</p></blockquote><p>That's not true for everyone. I usually hunt alone and still have far more kills than deaths. I earn my tokens. Why is it so hard for non Nagafen people to admit they aren't as skilled at pvp and that when you loose on Nagafen, you get no reward. Why can't they admit that BG is the kinder gentler pvp? Those are the simple facts. In Nagafen, you better watch your back when raiding, when harvesting, when questing. In BG, just go in ready and expecting. If you lose, no big deal. You still get your trophy.</p>

Taldier
03-06-2010, 01:27 AM
<p>If you want pvp gear roll on a pvp server and contribute to eq2's pvp population.  We dont need our pvp gear on your merchants.  Its disgusting enough that the devs couldnt be bothered to give us actual original pvp gear this xpac and just copy/pasted it from the bg merchants. </p><p>You dont like the idea of zergs?  Good, neither do most of the pvp players who actually post on these forums.  How about the pve'ers come to naggy and bring us an influx of good honest pvp instead of putting all of our gear on bg merchants and trying to kill off the best part of this game.</p><p>OR</p><p>New bg idea! Temporarily drop blubies into the open world on naggy and see how long they can survive without immunity or the ability to zone!  Success automatically grants them pvp gear!  Failure gives pvp players writ updates!</p>

rebyenliv
03-06-2010, 05:24 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>New bg idea! Temporarily drop blubies into the open world on naggy and see how long they can survive without immunity or the ability to zone!  Success automatically grants them pvp gear!  Failure gives pvp players writ updates!</p></blockquote><p>lol</p><p>I'm a blubie and I played on naggy. Unless it's changed that much in one expansion.  It just be another zerg fest with players trying to pull you into mobs because they can't solo for crap. Or you get killed by greys.  Or people porting all over the place because they have to cheat to be successful. Though I will admit it was a lot of fun out questing and running into someone and killing them. That was where I had the most fun, not grinding writs for pvp gear.</p><p>What I like about bg's is I have actualy got to see some really good nagafen players in action.  Something I rarely got to see on Nagafen.</p>

Armawk
03-06-2010, 06:38 AM
<p><cite>Shade Slayer wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Why can't they admit that BG is the kinder gentler pvp? Those are the simple facts.</p></blockquote><p>We know it is, and that is what it is FOR. PvP by choice in a controlled space. What has that however got to do with the thread subject?</p>

03-06-2010, 06:58 AM
<p><cite>rebyenlives wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>New bg idea! Temporarily drop blubies into the open world on naggy and see how long they can survive without immunity or the ability to zone!  Success automatically grants them pvp gear!  Failure gives pvp players writ updates!</p></blockquote><p>lol</p><p>I'm a blubie and I played on naggy. Unless it's changed that much in one expansion.  It just be another zerg fest with players trying to pull you into mobs because they can't solo for crap. Or you get killed by greys.  Or people porting all over the place because they have to cheat to be successful. Though I will admit it was a lot of fun out questing and running into someone and killing them. That was where I had the most fun, not grinding writs for pvp gear.</p><p><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong><em>What I like about bg's is I have actualy got to see some really good nagafen players in action.  Something I rarely got to see on Nagafen.</em></strong></span></p></blockquote><p>Thats the best post of '10 by far... couldnt agree more. </p><p>Ive had better fights (some of which Ive lost) in a controlled environment in these bg's than I've had in open worl 'pvp' in a long time.  Its not a lemming-pack steamrolling whatever moves anymore... theres an objective besides killing eachother.  Bravo sony for doing what should have been done long ago (even if other games did it first who cares,  theyve copied you guys in the past)</p><p>Sincerely</p><p>Destroyer Ofnewbie Bluebies,  The Shadow Blade</p>

jsand1128
03-06-2010, 06:23 PM
<p>Well I just spent way to much time reading alot of this and I agree with both sides on the issue, I however will not play a game that the other team is all PVP players, I just drop the game and most others follow. It will never be a fair fight and should have never been cross server, or atleast not with the PVP servers.</p><p>Look I agree with the fact that PVPer's do this all the time and thats great but the rest of us dont and will probably never do it, we just want BG to be a fun game that you can jump into whenever you dont feel like questing, for you PVPer's its more than that because this is what you do.</p><p>I can see that this will be changed in the near future because more and more people from Blue server will stop playing and no matter what you think it will change, I already see people on forums stating they will no longer play untill they change it. I however will still play because I do like it.</p><p>Just my opinion, your free to bash it.</p>

Ahlana
03-06-2010, 06:28 PM
<p>I doubt it will change much (if at all). There are some Blue Guilds doing very well and they are owning Blue Pugs just the same as PVP Pre-Mades are. If PVP is taking out of the mix then the crying will go that the Bluebies that do suceede in the BGs need to be seperated (ie a different BG level for premades) and only PUGs can play against each other, because they are just there for fun... unlike everyone else???</p>

Notsovilepriest
03-06-2010, 06:29 PM
<p><cite>jsand1128 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Well I just spent way to much time reading alot of this and I agree with both sides on the issue, I however will not play a game that the other team is all PVP players, I just drop the game and most others follow. It will never be a fair fight and should have never been cross server, or atleast not with the PVP servers.</p><p>Look I agree with the fact that PVPer's do this all the time and thats great but the rest of us dont and will probably never do it, we just want BG to be a fun game that you can jump into whenever you dont feel like questing, for you PVPer's its more than that because this is what you do.</p><p>I can see that this will be changed in the near future because more and more people from Blue server will stop playing and no matter what you think it will change, I already see people on forums stating they will no longer play untill they change it. I however will still play because I do like it.</p><p>Just my opinion, your free to bash it.</p></blockquote><p>You're never going to stand a chance because you quit when challenged, nothing more, It will be balanced once PvE gets a firm grasp of everything and all the kinks are worked out. I don't get how you could say it isn't or won't be.</p>

jsand1128
03-06-2010, 07:21 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>jsand1128 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Well I just spent way to much time reading alot of this and I agree with both sides on the issue, I however will not play a game that the other team is all PVP players, I just drop the game and most others follow. It will never be a fair fight and should have never been cross server, or atleast not with the PVP servers.</p><p>Look I agree with the fact that PVPer's do this all the time and thats great but the rest of us dont and will probably never do it, we just want BG to be a fun game that you can jump into whenever you dont feel like questing, for you PVPer's its more than that because this is what you do.</p><p>I can see that this will be changed in the near future because more and more people from Blue server will stop playing and no matter what you think it will change, I already see people on forums stating they will no longer play untill they change it. I however will still play because I do like it.</p><p>Just my opinion, your free to bash it.</p></blockquote><p>You're never going to stand a chance because you quit when challenged, nothing more, It will be balanced once PvE gets a firm grasp of everything and all the kinks are worked out. I don't get how you could say it isn't or won't be.</p></blockquote><p>Lol I guess you didnt read my post. You say that I won't stand a chance when Im challenged? what im talking about is not challenging, its not fun! and will never be. the funnest games I have had so far are the ones the the teams each have people from PVP and regular servers mixed on each team.</p><p>And you also say it will be balanced once we get the grasp of things? Like i said before, must of us are not going to become PVP players because we have other things that we like to do instead. Yes we might think this is some what fun but we wont make it a priority over everything else we do, so that right there will never make it balanced. i understand what your saying from your point of view but you all wont see our point of view and thats why must of us will never agree on this. All im saying is why would I play a match knowing its not going to be fun? and I dont know about the rest of you but this game is supposed to be fun. I dont mind getting my butt wooped here and there but not when i cant even damage one player on the other team and we lose 500-0.</p><p>P,S, Ill BRB going to jump in another BG game.</p>

Notsovilepriest
03-06-2010, 07:54 PM
<p><cite>jsand1128 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>jsand1128 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Well I just spent way to much time reading alot of this and I agree with both sides on the issue, I however will not play a game that the other team is all PVP players, I just drop the game and most others follow. It will never be a fair fight and should have never been cross server, or atleast not with the PVP servers.</p><p>Look I agree with the fact that PVPer's do this all the time and thats great but the rest of us dont and will probably never do it, we just want BG to be a fun game that you can jump into whenever you dont feel like questing, for you PVPer's its more than that because this is what you do.</p><p>I can see that this will be changed in the near future because more and more people from Blue server will stop playing and no matter what you think it will change, I already see people on forums stating they will no longer play untill they change it. I however will still play because I do like it.</p><p>Just my opinion, your free to bash it.</p></blockquote><p>You're never going to stand a chance because you quit when challenged, nothing more, It will be balanced once PvE gets a firm grasp of everything and all the kinks are worked out. I don't get how you could say it isn't or won't be.</p></blockquote><p>Lol I guess you didnt read my post. You say that I won't stand a chance when Im challenged? what im talking about is not challenging, its not fun! and will never be. the funnest games I have had so far are the ones the the teams each have people from PVP and regular servers mixed on each team.</p><p>And you also say it will be balanced once we get the grasp of things? Like i said before, must of us are not going to become PVP players because we have other things that we like to do instead. Yes we might think this is some what fun but we wont make it a priority over everything else we do, so that right there will never make it balanced. i understand what your saying from your point of view but you all wont see our point of view and thats why must of us will never agree on this. All im saying is why would I play a match knowing its not going to be fun? and I dont know about the rest of you but this game is supposed to be fun. I dont mind getting my butt wooped here and there but not when i cant even damage one player on the other team and we lose 500-0.</p><p>P,S, Ill BRB going to jump in another BG game.</p></blockquote><p>Do you think PvP people don't raid and do instances?</p><p>Also, I said you're not going to have a chance because you admit you quit when its against all PvP people</p>

Horizons
03-06-2010, 08:17 PM
<p>i love bluebies</p>

jsand1128
03-06-2010, 08:38 PM
<p>Well you proved my point, thanks</p><p>Done with this conversation</p>

Crismorn
03-06-2010, 09:08 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>jsand1128 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Well I just spent way to much time reading alot of this and I agree with both sides on the issue, I however will not play a game that the other team is all PVP players, I just drop the game and most others follow. It will never be a fair fight and should have never been cross server, or atleast not with the PVP servers.</p><p>Look I agree with the fact that PVPer's do this all the time and thats great but the rest of us dont and will probably never do it, we just want BG to be a fun game that you can jump into whenever you dont feel like questing, for you PVPer's its more than that because this is what you do.</p><p>I can see that this will be changed in the near future because more and more people from Blue server will stop playing and no matter what you think it will change, I already see people on forums stating they will no longer play untill they change it. I however will still play because I do like it.</p><p>Just my opinion, your free to bash it.</p></blockquote><p>You're never going to stand a chance because you quit when challenged, nothing more, It will be balanced once PvE gets a firm grasp of everything and all the kinks are worked out. I don't get how you could say it isn't or won't be.</p></blockquote><p>/agree</p><p>Im still in learning mode and when Im in learning mode dying is just as good as killing.</p><p>I would rather learn how to deal with every class now then be surprised in 6 months from now when I may actually care about winning or losing.</p><p>edit:  That priest fear earring is pretty crazy and all that needs to be said is I would use it in a second if I could, but at the same time I have all my avatar gear and basically everything from TSO and I would not trade any of the avatar pieces I currently wear for that earring</p>

Grumble69
03-06-2010, 09:28 PM
<p><cite>jsand1128 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Well I just spent way to much time reading alot of this and I agree with both sides on the issue, I however will not play a game that the other team is all PVP players, I just drop the game and most others follow. It will never be a fair fight and should have never been cross server, or atleast not with the PVP servers.</p></blockquote><p>You should try it out.  I think I've only been in one match where the other group was heavily Nagafen players.  And to be honest, some of them really aren't that good.  Admittedly, you will occasionally across some that seem to be in "God mode".  But if you wipe out their supporting cast, you can come back and gang up on them.</p>

Kyaaadaa
03-07-2010, 03:53 AM
<p><cite>Grumble69 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>jsand1128 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Well I just spent way to much time reading alot of this and I agree with both sides on the issue, I however will not play a game that the other team is all PVP players, I just drop the game and most others follow. It will never be a fair fight and should have never been cross server, or atleast not with the PVP servers.</p></blockquote><p>You should try it out.  I think I've only been in one match where the other group was heavily Nagafen players.  And to be honest, some of them really aren't that good.  Admittedly, you will occasionally across some that seem to be in "God mode".  But if you wipe out their supporting cast, you can come back and gang up on them.</p></blockquote><p>The truth of things in this one, there are lot of Naggy players (and I include my squishy mage self in this) who get rick rolled in PvP consistantly. Granted that I know which spells to use and which spells to toss out when it comes to certain classes, but Nagafen players are not, to a man, omnipotent PvPers. Don't get scurred about playing against Naggy players in a group, there are a ton of freeport players who roll in groups of 5 and 6 who get trashed like green double downs by a duo of Q's.... but you run the risk of that group also being fkin amazing. Risk taking isn't a bad thing, it can be quite rewarding.</p>

Nenamas_Warclaw
03-07-2010, 04:15 AM
<p>Here is just a little advice from someone on naggy who has bad gear...</p><p>Gear isnt everything, especialy in BGs, if it was openworld yall would really think it was bad fighting naggy people. Its not my gear that keeps me up, its my group, AA speced for pvp, knowing how to play my class, and knowing what works agains other classes.</p><p>If you dont know that stuff then your gear is pointless. Once you do know it though gear becomes everything.</p><p>As far as gear goes its common to see alot of pvpers running around with items 1/2 their lvl because of how much that item helps them in pvp. Look back at old gear with procs and stuff and maybe put it on before you go into BGs. Yea you will have to change armor just for BGs but we have to change armor for differnt things we are doing as well.</p><p>You will become better at it with time, and hell read the pvp fourms and learn some stuff or heres a thought maybe roll a toon on the pvp server, you just might like it.</p>

Naggasaki
03-07-2010, 04:18 AM
<p><cite>Kyaaadaa wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Grumble69 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>jsand1128 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Well I just spent way to much time reading alot of this and I agree with both sides on the issue, I however will not play a game that the other team is all PVP players, I just drop the game and most others follow. It will never be a fair fight and should have never been cross server, or atleast not with the PVP servers.</p></blockquote><p>You should try it out.  I think I've only been in one match where the other group was heavily Nagafen players.  And to be honest, some of them really aren't that good.  Admittedly, you will occasionally across some that seem to be in "God mode".  But if you wipe out their supporting cast, you can come back and gang up on them.</p></blockquote><p>The truth of things in this one, there are lot of Naggy players (and I include my squishy mage self in this) who get rick rolled in PvP consistantly. Granted that I know which spells to use and which spells to toss out when it comes to certain classes, but Nagafen players are not, to a man, omnipotent PvPers. Don't get scurred about playing against Naggy players in a group, there are a ton of freeport players who roll in groups of 5 and 6 who get trashed like green double downs by a duo of Q's.... but you run the risk of that group also being fkin amazing. <strong>Risk taking isn't a bad thing, it can be quite rewarding.</strong></p></blockquote><p>In an attempt to steer this thread BACK to it's original intent, nerfing our gear, or dropping us from the BG's would simply take the 'risk' factor out of it. You get a 'parting prize' just for showing up (provided you don't get AFK kicked by the other group while waiting to revive). I know many priests on nagafen that do NOT have this fear ring *i beleive this was the original reason for this post*. My warden included. But guess what, PvP tokens are heirloom. I'm working on getting it for him now. The risk I speak of is this.</p><p>"Hey look...a Priest..kill him. Wait, he's from nagafen, don't hit him because he's got a fear proc ring" You risk wasting your time being locked down by their tank because you're afraid to hit that healer on the off chance that they have a fear proc ring.</p><p>I say F* that! Kill the smarmy bastage as fast as possible, POTS, Cursaders Aura, w/e you gotta pull outta your 'bag-o-tricks' and pop him like a pinata (I can't do the funny ~ thing of the N).</p>

Kyaaadaa
03-07-2010, 04:32 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I can't do the funny ~ thing of the N</p></blockquote><p>lol ñ NAGGY SUCKS</p><p>edit: did i derail again? [Removed for Content]...</p>

Sosum
03-07-2010, 02:15 PM
<p><cite>Deebeme1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>please stop them from ruining the BGs with their BS gear.</p></blockquote><p>+1</p>

Ahlana
03-07-2010, 02:29 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Deebeme1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>please stop them from ruining the BGs with their BS gear.</p></blockquote><p>+1</p></blockquote><p>-2 (just add T8 gear to BG merchants)</p>

KatrinaDeath
03-07-2010, 03:04 PM
<p>Solution(?): Remove server tags</p>

Kain-UK
03-07-2010, 03:07 PM
<p>Go find a crafter to make the level 80 battlegrounds gear... that will help.</p>

Taldier
03-07-2010, 03:15 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Solution(?): Remove server tags</p></blockquote><p>Probably not a good idea.  Then the whiners will just assume that everyone who kills them is from naggy.</p>

Darman81
03-08-2010, 11:50 AM
<p> I agree please remove server Tags.... Personally im tired of hearing people in VC talk about how all Nagafen players think the are so Great.  Just because PVE servers seem boring to some of us doesnt mean we all think we are gods! I eat dirt all the time and wouldnt have it any other way!</p><p>Of course I guess I should just mute the abnoxious people! LOL!</p>