BGs

[Brimestar]

<p>Did the PvP devs even say something when the idea came up at the table at SOE HQ and say, BGs may be a bad idea....There is bascially 1 pvp server left ( no offense Vox ) and if there is a Battle Grounds it will take away from open world PvP on Nagafen. Prior to BGs you couldn't avoid PvP (also because if you got hit you got put into combat), but now its like small town USA.  Not many people out.  So, now since there isn't any pvp in open world when you do find that one person they get away via evac or cliff dive ( now that the put into combat bug is fixed ). Where is the voice for the pvp server? Was this idea brought up or even crossed your mind? Or were you told Mr. PvP dev to "shut up and color" cos we cater to bluebies....The whole thing on the BG gear being the exact same as the pvp gear is another can of worms altogether. </p><p>Now, since BG and pvp gear can be used on Nagafen there is nothing stopping someone from going to BGs to get a full set of gear...But the short sightnedness of this train of thought is after you get that full set of BG gear, there won't be anyone on Nagafen to pvp...So, back into BG you go.  Way back when, people asked about transferring from a pvp server to pve and vice versa, and the official response was "We can't do that, not allowed etc etc"; Isn't that what you just allowed SOE with the Battlegrounds? Now, in one fail swoop you took away the whole reason for the exsistence of Nagafen and Vox.....To kill another player character.</p>

[Attrikane]

<p>Nice soap box.  QQ</p>

[Kaita]

<p>Think if there was already 100's of posts on the same topic, You could go cry with the rest of them.</p>

[Brimestar]

<p>Funny hearing that from a bluebie and a pvper....You pvper must be one of those short sighted zergers from KP....*golf clap*</p>

[ogvondrevon]

<p>Cry? He's making a good point.  No need to PvP for real now.  Enter the Carebear world of Battlegrounds.</p>

[Brimestar]

<p>Was chatting with someone about this on vent and he made an excellent suggestion, just keep the BG gear useability on BG.</p>

[gdawg311]

<p>BLUBBBIEEESS !!! you have your own pvp forum now, see the section called Battlegrounds, go troll there plz!!</p><p>On a side note, its hilarious watching you people attempt pvp, lulworthy tbh</p>

[Metal_Starz]

<p> I was under the impression BG armor only worked for BG. If we can use that for open pvp that is a problem. It's way too easy to get. It is pretty much handed to you. BG is screwing the whole game up. Blubies crying because they don't know how to pvp end up getting new pvp gear handed to them and they are still crying. All the meanwhile screwing up our open pvp world.</p>

[gdawg311]

<p><cite>Metal_Starz wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p> I was under the impression BG armor only worked for BG. If we can use that for open pvp that is a problem. It's way too easy to get. It is pretty much handed to you. BG is screwing the whole game up. Blubies crying because they don't know how to pvp end up getting new pvp gear handed to them and they are still crying. All the meanwhile screwing up our open pvp world.</p></blockquote><p>you can wear the bg gear outside of instances, you just dont get any crit mit, or resists from the jewelry, also all the potency on the BG gear is pvp only. so outside of pvp and BG's you wont get any of the % to your damage from potency.</p><p>However, if you look at our pvp merchant and then look at the BG merchants, the gear is exactly the same, only thing ive seen that is different is the 750 token mounts that give 45% in combat run speed. Therefore you would want it for open world pvp.</p>

[Edavi]

<p>Not only can BG armor be used outside of BGs, but BG gear IS PVP gear... There was, hold on let me count... Yup ZERO thought that went into this.</p><p>As I stated in the BG's section, I am really enjoying this BG thing, Just as a FUN sorta thing, not so much as a means to get gear.  I am sure open world PVP will pick back up, since theres only 3 BGs at the moment, BUT I mean all the people who go out in gank groups for 3 hours and only find one group to fight, those people are guna gota BG's and rightfully so.  Our open world PVP isnt the dream worl people seem to think it is.  It isnt a bucha groups goin around fighting eachother, its groups goin around killing solo questers, which is boring for the groups and the questers.  And now both parties are in BG lol</p>

[Siphar]

<p>Another point maybe you didn't consider... but...</p><p>Have you noticed how easy mode the BG's are against PvE players...</p><p>No disrespect to the bluebies but without the <strong>same experience</strong>, you don't stand a chance..  (apart from the hardcore raiders) and in my experience of PvP so far in the BG, the PvE players have been destroyed... not just beaten... destroyed....</p><p>It's like battle hardened soldiers versus civilians.. I know who my money is on...</p><p>I expect to see some complaining about this very soon...</p>

[Wytie]

<p>Sorry but these Bg's are WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA</p><p>AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more fun than the pvp zerg.</p><p>People wont have to zerg to get gear anymore so hopefully the pvp you do find out in the open will have some quality to it.</p><p>Id take BG's over the KP zergfest pvp ANYDAY.</p><p>It lets people get it out of their system.</p><p>I agree though the autoengage was the best thing for pvp, now atleast we have a place to go to where people actually want to fight and not just run because they dont have the upper hand.</p>

[Siphar]

<p><cite>Paill@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Sorry but these Bg's are WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA</p><p>AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more fun than the pvp zerg.</p></blockquote><p>/agree</p>

[Neskonlith]

<p><cite>Metal_Starz wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If we can use that for open pvp that is a problem. It's way too easy to get. It is pretty much handed to you. BG is screwing the whole game up.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Just like how the broken open-world pvp mechanics are basically handing gear out for free to certain classes?</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" /></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">If there was any integrity in the system of open pvp, the BG rewards might be a concern, but open pvp has remained unrepaired for too long and too many exploited Tokens are out there.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Sure would have been cool if open PVP could have been meaningful.</span></p>

[MaCloud1032]

BG's are a blast nuff said I can see logging in simply to run these all night. I might level up just off this <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I use to love pvp till it degraded to the zerg

[Am]

The novelty will wear off. You should at least give something enough time to make an intelligent decision on the effects of what it does or does not do before you take to the board and crucify the developers.

[Lather]

<p><cite>Brimestar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Funny hearing that from a bluebie and a pvper....You pvper must be one of those short sighted zergers from KP....*golf clap*</p></blockquote><p>Hey look its the same thing u did! But he prolly didnt do it without popping godspells everytime they were up</p>

[kcirrot]

<p><cite>Siphar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>No disrespect to the bluebies but without the <strong>same experience</strong>, you don't stand a chance..  (apart from the hardcore raiders) and in my experience of PvP so far in the BG, the PvE players have been destroyed... not just beaten... destroyed....</p><p>It's like battle hardened soldiers versus civilians.. I know who my money is on...</p><p>I expect to see some complaining about this very soon...</p></blockquote><p>No complaining from me.  I expect to get beat bad by experienced PvPers.  It's par for the course.  I see even one kill against a good PvP team a victory. </p><p>Personally, I see the point of PvP server players about BGs.  It does seem to make open world PvP kinda besides the point if you can get the same rewards in BG.  But I'm glad the Nagafen players are in BGs.  I don't mind getting beat and I learned a lot about PvP from getting slapped around in Gears last night.</p><p>If I actually could stomach leveling in general, I might create an alt on Nagafen.</p>

[Ahlana]

<p><cite>Darksavanna@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>BG's are a blast nuff said I can see logging in simply to run these all night. I might level up just off this <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> I use to love pvp till it degraded to the zerg</blockquote><p>What he said, they are fun and "even" It will get better as the Bluebies get better and get PVP armor.. I believe BG PVP will only improve over time. Where as OpenWorld will be back to zerging once everyone hits 90 again. </p>

[Thinwizzy]

<p><cite>Ahlana wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Darksavanna@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>BG's are a blast nuff said I can see logging in simply to run these all night. I might level up just off this <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> I use to love pvp till it degraded to the zerg</blockquote><p>What he said, they are fun and "even" It will get better as the Bluebies get better and get PVP armor.. I believe BG PVP will only improve over time. Where as OpenWorld will be back to zerging once everyone hits 90 again. </p></blockquote><p>Everyone isn't 90 yet?</p>

[Ahlana]

<p><cite>Thinwizzy@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ahlana wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Darksavanna@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>BG's are a blast nuff said I can see logging in simply to run these all night. I might level up just off this <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> I use to love pvp till it degraded to the zerg</blockquote><p>What he said, they are fun and "even" It will get better as the Bluebies get better and get PVP armor.. I believe BG PVP will only improve over time. Where as OpenWorld will be back to zerging once everyone hits 90 again. </p></blockquote><p>Everyone isn't 90 yet?</p></blockquote><p>Not quite.. was out yesterday PVPing in Stonebrunt after some BGs and there are plenty of people not 90 (I dare say the majority isn't).</p>

[TheMightyTaco]

<p>What if the long term idea is to eliminate the remaining PvP server and just have battlegrounds out there for those desiring PvP? Not that I would know or have any vested interest in the fate of PvP either way. But it seems to me that SoE would benefit from the change.</p><p>First, there would only be one server ruleset if they could eliminate Nagafen. The fact that they have to maintain a separate branch of their source code tree and databases strictly for one server is HUGE. It is incredibly costly to dedicate the resources. They could justify it if there was a more 50-50 split in server populations.</p><p>Second, they wanted to release PvP across the board when it was originally developed. By creating battlegrounds they have effectively created pseudo-PvP on all servers. If you ask me, I am reminded of the marketplace. They wanted a full real cash shop on all servers but the masses rejected it. So they created the marketplace. In other words, they weaseled in a pseudo-real cash shop on every server incrementally.</p><p>If you are a PvPer I feel bad for you regardless of how this turns out but I see a really bleak future in store for you. But then again, from the looks of things nobody was happy with PvP the way it was, or the way it was before that, or the way it was before that, or the way it was before that.....</p>

[Namja]

<p>Opinions of a new player (3 weeks):</p><p>QQ more. The FACT of the matter is BGs are a great addition. It allows for more options. Who doesn't like more choices? Now I have the option to open pvp or BG. People that only want open pvp are people that like to FORCE other players to play their style. It would be sweet if SOE adds 6v6 arenas that have team rankings like in WoW (real team skills). They could go a step futher and add 1v1 arenas with rankings. The ONLY people crying over this are people that are geared out fabled gear and master spells that like to pick on undergeared players and think "LOOK AT MY KDR!!11 I AM SO SKILLZ!!!111"</p><p>With the addition of BGs, you fight people that WANT to fight back. Truth, people that like open pvp are gankers. Plain and simple. That is the definition of open pvp. It's bad enough you guys think you have skills killing me while I'm questing in handcrafted gear waiting for me to hit a mob before you stab me in the back. I"m not crying over ganking. I enjoy it. It's more of a challenge to level on Nagafen. You always have to be on your toes. I see a player with some title and I sneak around them.</p><p>If you say "No, I like a challenge. I want to fight people that like to fight back equally geared." Then [Removed for Content] do you think a BG is?! LOL. People that want a real challenge will go BG. People that want to satisfy their [Removed for Content] will go open pvp. Don't worry. You can still kill questers. BGs are only 80+. Happy?</p><p>The state of open pvp: 1) Find a pvp group go to a zone with questers and slaughter them like zerglings .... 2) Go solo and only fight people that are undergeared and gank them, if you notice you are losing don't worry you can run away to save your KDR... 3) Leech in SS... 4) my personal favorite... wait at the docks... wait for me to leave docks to go questing... and stab me in the back...</p><p>FACT: Think of BGs as an open zone with other people that WANT to pvp (fight back).</p>

[Hotdog king]

<p><cite>Namja wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Opinions of a new player (3 weeks):</p><p>QQ more. The FACT of the matter is BGs are a great addition. It allows for more options. Who doesn't like more choices? Now I have the option to open pvp or BG. People that only want open pvp are people that like to FORCE other players to play their style. It would be sweet if SOE adds 6v6 arenas that have team rankings like in WoW (real team skills). They could go a step futher and add 1v1 arenas with rankings. The ONLY people crying over this are people that are geared out fabled gear and master spells that like to pick on undergeared players and think "LOOK AT MY KDR!!11 I AM SO SKILLZ!!!111"</p><p>With the addition of BGs, you fight people that WANT to fight back. Truth, people that like open pvp are gankers. Plain and simple. That is the definition of open pvp. It's bad enough you guys think you have skills killing me while I'm questing in handcrafted gear waiting for me to hit a mob before you stab me in the back. I"m not crying over ganking. I enjoy it. It's more of a challenge to level on Nagafen. You always have to be on your toes. I see a player with some title and I sneak around them.</p><p>If you say "No, I like a challenge. I want to fight people that like to fight back equally geared." Then [Removed for Content] do you think a BG is?! LOL. People that want a real challenge will go BG. People that want to satisfy their [Removed for Content] will go open pvp. Don't worry. You can still kill questers. BGs are only 80+. Happy?</p><p>The state of open pvp: 1) Find a pvp group go to a zone with questers and slaughter them like zerglings .... 2) Go solo and only fight people that are undergeared and gank them, if you notice you are losing don't worry you can run away to save your KDR... 3) Leech in SS... 4) my personal favorite... wait at the docks... wait for me to leave docks to go questing... and stab me in the back...</p><p>FACT: Think of BGs as an open zone with other people that WANT to pvp (fight back).</p></blockquote><p>I like the way you stated this, well articulated (minus QQ <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ). I don't hate the battleground system, I believe though before it was implemented there should have been a major class rebalancing for all classes. That and those of us on Nagafen should have the opportunity to transfer off the server with what is essentially the elimination of open world pvp (which is like you say, a gankfest to the less than fabledx100).</p>

[Zacarus]

<p><cite>Namja wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The FACT of the matter is BGs are a great addition. It allows for more options. Who doesn't like more </p><p>FACT: Think of BGs as an open zone with other people that WANT to pvp (fight back).</p></blockquote><p>Why would you roll on a pvp server unless you want to fight back?</p><p>ps... you might want to double check the definition of the word, "<a href="http://www.merriam-webster.com/netdict/fact" target="_blank">fact</a>," because your facts read a lot like opinions</p>

[Crismorn]

<p><cite>gdawg311 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>BLUBBBIEEESS !!! you have your own pvp forum now, see the section called Battlegrounds, go troll there plz!!</p><p>On a side note, its hilarious watching you people attempt pvp, lulworthy tbh</p></blockquote><p>I like how you confuse zerging in one zone with open world pvp.</p><p>You even do it in a way that makes others think you actually have an idea what open world pvp is, bravo sir</p>

[Tracor3k99]

<p><span ><span style="color: #ffffff;"> </span><p>started eq2 upon launch and have steadily played. I did for a bit play wow, the Only thing I enjoyed about it was the pvp. anyway, you're right. classes are nowhere near equal enough to have battlegrounds. Unless of course all you want are 80+ mythed sk' fighting it out. or any of the other classes that are indeed over powered.</p><p> 1 suggestion I would love to see, much like wow, make it so people under 80, I have 8 80s, so I'm not worried about it, but think you're losing a lot of business only having post 80s able to go. Make it so everyone can go and make it every Five levels, i.e. 10/14 15/19 20/24 -- 50/54 65/69, just examples of levels. The 5 level gap would pretty much keep the games close and tight as opposed to every 10 levels where a level 10 would get thrashed by a 19. This would make it so 1, the most powerful over rated item in the game(level 80+ mythical) wouldn't have a factor, and you could learn how to use the battlegrounds at early levels. And most importantly, have it so the new players, under 80, can play and perhaps get hooked.</p></span></p>

[Snosael]

<p>at least the KP zerg required you to be at your keyboard to get tokens. </p><p>how falcking hard is it for SOE to just think for one minute how it will effect pvp servers?</p>

[Kurindor_Mythecnea]

<p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>THE FIX</strong></span> <span style="color: #ff0000;">would be...</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">· 1.) Open world PvP objectives with regional/majority control bonuses, novel items/adornments/adornment components/player-mounted heads, and encounter size limits (to ward off zerging and server latency issues).</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">· 2.) <em>ALL</em> instances should be made into contested dungeons.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">· 3.) Only 30 seconds immunity after evacuation, 1 minute 30 second after respawning, and no immunity in open world zones on <em>weekends</em>. </span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"> - This means NO immunity even in Moors of Ykesha and Paineel (on weekends).</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">· 4.) Difficult group encounters with desirable loot should be added to open world areas.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">· 5.) Exclusive PvP loot only found on PvP servers, and not through battlegrounds as well.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">· 6.) Upgrade fail PvP items like the wrists with no procs and the mounts that aren't faster than OLD SHADOW ODYSSEY BEARS.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"> - NOBODY will use a mount that travels slower than an old expansion bear unless they only want to run fast in battlegrounds, which essentially is meaningless because battlegrounds revolves around cooperation and teamwork.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"> - New PvP discs NEED 70% runspeed, +/- 5% hate mod, +5 casting, +100 ability modifier, and plus 10 to slashing/crushing/piercing/disruption/defense/parry/ordination/ministration.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"> - The point in open world PvP is to CATCH someone, you CANNOT DO THIS if you run 5% slower than them because the "new" mount is worse than the old one.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"> - The shield is terrible and has no proc to make it better than the old RoK PvP shield, Impenetrable Bulwark.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">7.) Add fame loss on death from those ranked above, below, or on par with you.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">8.) Remove fame decay while offline.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"> - Being unable to build PvP titles on alts inhibits one from fully enjoying content longevity in ways previously available.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">9.) Allow players to toggle participation in the PvP rank system with a 30 second casting, 7 day reuse ability.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">10.) Redo the guild strategist on PvP servers. NO RALLY BANNERS, PERIOD!</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"> - Turn it into a system that marks one group worth of enemies in your PvP range as waypoints.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">If you don't agree with me and can't explain why for every point, you have failed your PvP server, your conscience, and rationality.</span></p>

[Neskonlith]

<p><cite>Seliri@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff00ff;"><span><strong>THE FIX</strong></span> <span>would be...</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff00ff;">· 2.) <em>ALL</em> instances should be made into contested dungeons.</span></p><p></p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Good joke!</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">SOE would be better off allocating more Dev time to improving BeeGees for the majority of the subscribers.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Just sayin'.</span></p><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/49869fe8223507d7223db3451e5321aa.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Kurindor_Mythecnea]

<p><cite>Neskonlith wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Seliri@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff00ff;"><span><strong>THE FIX</strong></span> <span>would be...</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff00ff;">· 2.) <em>ALL</em> instances should be made into contested dungeons.</span></p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Good joke!</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">SOE would be better off allocating more Dev time to improving BeeGees for the majority of the subscribers.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Just sayin'.</span></p><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/49869fe8223507d7223db3451e5321aa.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Read the newly added orange text to my prior post. It would explain yourrrr post very well.</span> <span style="color: #ff6600;"><img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span></p>

[Kiara]

<p>I'm going to leave this for the time being as there are a few posts here with some useful feedback.</p><p>However, please keep in mind that ranting and railing won't effect any changes.</p><p>Battlegrounds are here to stay.  No amount of fussing is going to get them removed.  They are quite simply, non-negotiable.</p><p>Thus, should you have constructive feedback that might help us to further tune and balance them (always keeping in mind that the health of the game overall trumps the desires of a minority) we welcome it and any suggestions you have for additional features you might like to see.</p>

[Neskonlith]

<p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Like I said, good joke - you can't be serious with that obvious piece of troll-bait you slyly tried to slip in there, could you?</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">You propose making low-level players in a PVE instance the target of surprise PVP asaults by stacked 90s, so that they can be ganked and their loot stolen by griefers in PVP gear hopping from instance to instance.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Isn't is already satisfying enough to be a lvl90 OP SK rolling in a PVP group ganking lowbie questers who have zero chance of escape due to the forced-combat bug, and zero chance to compete?</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">So instead of "baby-punching for free Tokens", you now propse "stealing candy from a baby + free Tokens"!</span></p><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Snosael]

<p>where does the health of pvp fit in?</p>

[Neskonlith]

<p><cite>Snosael wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>where does the health of pvp fit in?</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Which pvp health are you referring to?</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Open world pvp is great for zerging, and group farming Tokens by ambushing questing lowbies.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">BeeGees provide zerg-free instances where leechers and exploiters are far more likely to be prevented than open-pvp currently offers.  When the bugs get sorted out, I am anticipating a very healthy amount of fun in the BeeGees.</span></p>

[Kurindor_Mythecnea]

<p><cite>Neskonlith wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Like I said, good joke - you can't be serious with that obvious piece of troll-bait you slyly tried to slip in there, could you?</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">You propose making low-level players in a PVE instance the target of surprise PVP asaults by stacked 90s, so that they can be ganked and their loot stolen by griefers in PVP gear hopping from instance to instance.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Isn't is already satisfying enough to be a lvl90 OP SK rolling in a PVP group ganking lowbie questers who have zero chance of escape due to the forced-combat bug, and zero chance to compete?</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">So instead of "baby-punching for free Tokens", you now propse "stealing candy from a baby + free Tokens"!</span></p><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Uh, no, I never said give writ updates for greys, neither did I say abolish PvP ranges. I said make instances contested dungeons. Don't know where you're getting your ideas... O_o</span></p>

[Neskonlith]

<p><cite>Seliri@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Uh, no, I never said give writ updates for greys, neither did I say abolish PvP ranges. I said make instances contested dungeons. Don't know where you're getting your ideas... O_o</span></p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">A contested dungeon in open-pvp is a PVP zone, and what you propose by making all open world instances contested is to make it so that a stacked PVP group of 90s can more easily ambush lowbies as they attempt to quest and level up.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Making instances contested zones will simply result in grief groups hopping from instance to instance to farm the lowbies within.  We see this behaviour in Quel'ule where 90's are eagerly farming lowbie questers trying to get updates.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">The potential for abuse is significant.  Realistically, what chance does a group of questing lvl80s have against an ambush PVP group of 90s popping in to farm them?</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Instead, what SOE has now is sufficient: <span style="text-decoration: underline;">contested BeeGees instances</span>, where PVP groups can hop from instance to instance and fight on more equal terms and equal odds.</span></p>

[Ahlana]

<p><cite>Seliri@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Uh, no, I never said give writ updates for greys, neither did I say abolish PvP ranges. I said make instances contested dungeons. Don't know where you're getting your ideas... O_o</span></p></blockquote><p>+1 I said something like this the other day ingame.</p><p>Make it so on PVP servers you can select the instance door and it shows you a list of running instances of opposing factions which you can then enter and get your PVP on. Would be awesome.</p>

[Kurindor_Mythecnea]

<p><cite>Neskonlith wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Seliri@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Uh, no, I never said give writ updates for greys, neither did I say abolish PvP ranges. I said make instances contested dungeons. Don't know where you're getting your ideas... O_o</span></p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">A contested dungeon in open-pvp is a PVP zone, and what you propose by making all open world instances contested is to make it so that a stacked PVP group of 90s can more easily ambush lowbies as they attempt to quest and level up.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Making instances contested zones will simply result in grief groups hopping from instance to instance to farm the lowbies within.  We see this behaviour in Quel'ule where 90's are eagerly farming lowbie questers trying to get updates.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">The potential for abuse is significant.  Realistically, what chance does a group of questing lvl80s have against an ambush PVP group of 90s popping in to farm them?</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Instead, what SOE has now is sufficient: <span style="text-decoration: underline;">contested BeeGees instances</span>, where PVP groups can hop from instance to instance and fight on more equal terms and equal odds.</span></p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">I'm not saying to even make any new instances for groups. Simply turn them all into contested dungeons. Doing quests in instances IS NOT the fastest way to level. </span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Have a T6, T7, T8, and T9 version of each dungeon, and that's all.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Bluebie PvEers can keep their scaling instances!!!! O_o</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">We PvPers deserve better things that don't ruin contested PvP! =[</span></p>

[asaron]

<p>a faster simpler fix to  this new bluebie stuff would be to limit bg gear to bg's only that way blue servers dotn get hosed everyone that wishes to enjoy them could still have fun and open world pvp which true naggy vets/pvpers enjoy  and before you rant not all open world pvp is zerg ..   on the zerg topic what do you think bg's are turning into   unless you go in with a pre set group of yoru own you are zerging  no differently than if you ahd participated at the tg or dreg zergs think on that before you bash those that actually pvp in the open world</p>

[Neskonlith]

<p><cite>Seliri@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">I'm not saying to even make any new instances for groups. Simply turn them all into contested dungeons. Doing quests in instances IS NOT the fastest way to level. </span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Have a T7, T8, and T9 version of each dungeon, and that's all.</span></p></blockquote><p><em>"...Deep Forge 3 needs pvp blocking force to get these lvl90 writ farmers out so we can get quest updates..."</em></p><p><em>"...zone crashed, lagged out due to too many players..."</em></p><p><em>"... Guild_X from the other faction ganked us in zone_Y and stole our update named; they got an exquisite, and we're only lvl83..."</em></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">I'd venture a guess that it is not a practical use of Dev time, and the exploits would be too easy - at this point, it appears that the BeeGees are the best option for contested PVP instances that will serve this purpose well without disrupting the gameplay choices of others.</span></p>

[Kurindor_Mythecnea]

<p><cite>Neskonlith wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Seliri@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">I'm not saying to even make any new instances for groups. Simply turn them all into contested dungeons. Doing quests in instances IS NOT the fastest way to level. </span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Have a T7, T8, and T9 version of each dungeon, and that's all.</span></p></blockquote><p><em>"...Deep Forge 3 needs pvp blocking force to get these lvl90 writ farmers out so we can get quest updates..."</em></p><p><em>"...zone crashed, lagged out due to too many players..."</em></p><p><em>"... Guild_X from the other faction ganked us in zone_Y and stole our update named; they got an exquisite, and we're only lvl83..."</em></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">I'd venture a guess that it is not a practical use of Dev time, and the exploits would be too easy - at this point, it appears that the BeeGees are the best option for contested PVP instances that will serve this purpose well without disrupting the gameplay choices of others.</span></p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">In regard to your quotations of hypotheticals, that's how it should be. As it is, world PvP is nearly dead. This is COMPLETELY unacceptable for Sentinel's Fate having gone live just 10 days ago.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Go to a PvE server if you dont think you're cut out for it.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">If anyone has already read my original post in this thread so far, without giving it a second look, I added a 10th point of concern for your viewing pleasure! =]</span></p>

[Neskonlith]

<p><cite>Seliri@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">In regard to your quotations of hypotheticals, that's how it should be. As it is, world PvP is nearly dead. This is COMPLETELY unacceptable for Sentinel's Fate having gone live just 10 days ago.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Go to a PvE server if you dont think you're cut out for it.</span></p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Exploiters "baby-punching" and zergling rushes have killed open-pvp.  Players currently abusing the broken open-pvp mechanics to exploit uncontested and free Tokens have done more to hurt the appeal of open-pvp than the annoyance of the bugs themselves.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Too bad SOE didn't turn off writ-updates and Tokens gathering until the open-pvp system was repaired to allow the chance of fair contests to possibly occur in open-pvp - by doing so, they might have preserved some sort of integrity in the system.</span></p>

[Kurindor_Mythecnea]

<p><cite>asaron wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>a faster simpler fix to  this new bluebie stuff would be to limit bg gear to bg's only that way blue servers dotn get hosed everyone that wishes to enjoy them could still have fun and open world pvp which true naggy vets/pvpers enjoy  and before you rant not all open world pvp is zerg ..   on the zerg topic what do you think bg's are turning into   unless you go in with a pre set group of yoru own you are zerging  no differently than if you ahd participated at the tg or dreg zergs think on that before you bash those that actually pvp in the open world</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Blue servers dont get hosed. Tons of high end raid geared guilds completely annihilate everyone...</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">A good reason to emphasize and redundantly mention the need for exclusive, open world PvP gear.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Such would also help stimulate open world PvPs of course, on top of helping grizzled PvP veterans have a better fighting chance against those who are lucky enough to be in a top tier raiding guild!</span></p>

[Gortesh]

<p>While the PvP armor currently offered from BG is better than the Overland PvP armor, one thing most people are missing is that PvP armor gained in BG is USELESS for raiding as it has no CRIT MIT.</p><p>Just my 2 cents.</p>

[asaron]

<p>toughness grants crit mit or atleast rothgar and timetravelling said it would</p>