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Antu
02-25-2010, 07:41 PM
<p><cite>Kiara wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>On a side note, now that this thread has been completely hijacked by the AA bug, would it be possible to rename this to something like <strong>'Battlegrounds AA bug complaint thread'</strong> and have a separate <strong>'Battlegrounds Gameplay Feedback'</strong> thread? I just lost a part of my life I'll never have back reading through this tread to see if anyone had anything to say about the pvp guilds that have camped the battlegrounds or anything gameplay related. Instead it turns into ten pages of attacks on poor Kiara and Rothgar and makes me feel too much like I'm working at Verizon again. *twitch* *shudder*</p></blockquote><p>Yes, I'll change the name and you can start a new BG feedback thread <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Kiara made me do it.</p><p>This is a thread about the gameplay experienced in the Battlegrounds: stuff like the queueing, thoughts on toughness, impressions on the actual gameplay.</p><p>Have at it.</p>

Antu
02-25-2010, 07:50 PM
<p>As for my experience, I tried all three battlegrounds.</p><p>The first time you log in to the battlegrounds is really rough because you have to load up your UI and will likely die in the process.</p><p><strong>The Smuggler's Den</strong>: I joined a game in progress and immediately died because the red team was holding our spawn point. I don't know how normal that is, but I suspect it's because of who the red team were (see below).</p><p><strong>Gears of Klak'Anon</strong>: It is vital to go into this with a pre-made group because it looks like there just aren't any solo healers queueing up. My team had no healer and we had no chance. We scored a little over 100 points mostly because the red team decided on their tactics before leaving their home zone. Once they came out of their home zone, we never had a shot. I don't know if it's a problem of the queue not balancing the teams right as much as there just not being any healers in the queue. Would love to see the statistics on that.</p><p><strong>Battlefield of Ganak:</strong> Nothing much I didn't expect here. I was able to get to the other team's flag but got gang-pounced on the run back. This leads me to my observation...</p><p>I'm pretty sure each time I went in, I got put on a PUG against a group from the same guild on <strong>pvp</strong> server. I <em>know</em> that was the case for my experience of Gears and Battlefield as I saw their guild tags while they teabagged me. This will probably end up being a huge complaint for the PvE people. I went in wearing the lvl 80 BG gear and it helped me survive a few hits, but their tactics obviously overwhelmed us. This may just be a PUG vs. Pre-Made problem, but it might be worth watching to see if it becomes a pvp-geared vs BG geared problem.</p><p>Also I don't know if it's logistically possible to have the queue go PUG vs PUG and Premade vs Premade. Would certainly make the matches better.</p>

Edavi
02-25-2010, 07:53 PM
<p>Anyone know how to transfer my key bindings from normal game to BGs? i was able to load my ui easy enough, but i my keys are all funny!</p>

TwistedFaith
02-25-2010, 07:56 PM
<p>My initial thoughts are that it is obvious that EQ2 wasn't designed with PVP in mind. If I was a developer I would be getting ready for the mass number of 'Class X needs a nerf, Class y needs buffed' posts.</p><p>There are screaming in-balances in EQ2's pvp system which will lead to either massive nerfs of certain classes (hopefully not in PVE) or people simply losing interest in the games and letting them rot.</p><p>I can see the BG being popular with those who like to PVP (those on PVP servers) but honestly I cant see  BG holding the PVE crowd s attention for long unless the gear becomes must have.</p><p>Oh and whilst I'm at it, I fully expect exploiting to be rampant over the next few weeks. There are at least 3 gaping holes in the system that I know a few people have spotted already.</p>

Antu
02-25-2010, 07:56 PM
<p><cite>Edavi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Anyone know how to transfer my key bindings from normal game to BGs? i was able to load my ui easy enough, but i my keys are all funny!</p></blockquote><p>You may have to load your ui a second time (/load_uisettings). That's what I had to do.</p>

Edavi
02-25-2010, 07:58 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Edavi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Anyone know how to transfer my key bindings from normal game to BGs? i was able to load my ui easy enough, but i my keys are all funny!</p></blockquote><p>You may have to load your ui a second time (/load_uisettings). That's what I had to do.</p></blockquote><p>That doest effect Key bindings though does it? Doesnt seem to ket my keys back <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Antu
02-25-2010, 08:02 PM
<p><cite>Edavi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Edavi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Anyone know how to transfer my key bindings from normal game to BGs? i was able to load my ui easy enough, but i my keys are all funny!</p></blockquote><p>You may have to load your ui a second time (/load_uisettings). That's what I had to do.</p></blockquote><p>That doest effect Key bindings though does it? Doesnt seem to ket my keys back <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>In that case, try /savehotkeys MyHotKeys.txt (where myhotkeys is whatever you want to call it) while in regular world. Then when in BG /loadhotkeys MyHotKeys.txt</p>

Edavi
02-25-2010, 08:04 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Edavi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Edavi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Anyone know how to transfer my key bindings from normal game to BGs? i was able to load my ui easy enough, but i my keys are all funny!</p></blockquote><p>You may have to load your ui a second time (/load_uisettings). That's what I had to do.</p></blockquote><p>That doest effect Key bindings though does it? Doesnt seem to ket my keys back <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>In that case, try /savehotkeys MyHotKeys.txt (where myhotkeys is whatever you want to call it) while in regular world. Then when in BG /loadhotkeys MyHotKeys.txt</p></blockquote><p>I know im bein a pain, but arent hotkeys just the stuff on ur hot bars? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>my problem is ive changed alota things like my push to talk button, or the target neearest target button and all that, and when i zone in, those all go back to default <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Antu
02-25-2010, 08:05 PM
<p>Oooooooh.</p><p>Alt-O, save your profile in regular world, enter BG, Alt-O, load your profile?</p>

Edavi
02-25-2010, 08:13 PM
<p>Yea ive tried that, it didnt seem to work... siiiigh Am i the only schmuck having this problem?</p>

Ace235228
02-25-2010, 08:16 PM
<p>Battlefield of Ganak: I've seen a few times where a really organized and equipped guild group just mauled everyone down at the beginning and proceeded to camp the spawn of the other team for the rest of the match. The problem is that at the spawn you are immediately within 'range' and line of sight if the enemy team gets up on the water pipe and can kill you as you respawn before you can move.</p>

Ace235228
02-25-2010, 09:38 PM
<p>If you crash half way through a game, such as in Ganak, and come back everyone will have a white name and you will be unable to tell who is on what team.</p>

Ace235228
02-25-2010, 09:48 PM
<p>Would be a great idea to implement a Battleground option somewhere in /bug...</p>

Costa
02-25-2010, 10:17 PM
<p>Ok i've done Gears twice as a guilded group and once as a PuG.</p><p>Ok coming from the pvp server with a group of well geared pvp players the 1st run was pretty much a white wash over the opposing team. If you go into these zones with no battleground armor on you have to expect to die a lot. I actualy felt sorry for the opposing team by the end as the only person they killed was the relic holder and that was when he was starting to get hit for over 6k per tick from the relic.</p><p>The second match we went up against people who were certainly more geared for it and some players from naggy who clearly had pvp jewlery and armor. This was a mutch better contest and much closer which i would like to think is how the BG's will be in a few weeks if people persist with them to gear up.</p><p>The last match was the PUG and well it went as well as you could expect from a PuG tbh. Although the group we faced were PuGed as well so it actually ended up being a close fight.</p><p>As for feedback, well people need to be prepared to talk in VC. Everything happens fast in PvP so you don't get chance to type things. Being in VC listening to a called target or someone calling for assistance is the only way your going to work as a team, although i am sure there are a lot of people out there that feel intimidated by the whole VC. At the moment the BG's seem to be mentoring everyone to 80 although people in the groups i was in were not 90 so i guess this is done for a reason. If you wanna go in them you have to sacrifice your dps output for survivability so the lvl 80 crafted BG armor would be a must as a starting point. Once you start beating on someone you can soon tell who is wearing armor with thoughness over those that aren't. If you take a moment in a fight you can quickly spot who is what class by the little icon over their head. Although the fights are short you soon learn who is the ones doing the damage and who is healing etc. The tank is easy as they are the ones that you keep targting when you think your about to kill someone else <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Armironhead
02-25-2010, 10:23 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>As for my experience, I tried all three battlegrounds.</p><p>The first time you log in to the battlegrounds is really rough because you have to load up your UI and will likely die in the process.</p><p><strong>The Smuggler's Den</strong>: I joined a game in progress and immediately died because the red team was holding our spawn point. I don't know how normal that is, but I suspect it's because of who the red team were (see below).</p><p><strong>Gears of Klak'Anon</strong>: It is vital to go into this with a pre-made group because it looks like there just aren't any solo healers queueing up. My team had no healer and we had no chance. We scored a little over 100 points mostly because the red team decided on their tactics before leaving their home zone. Once they came out of their home zone, we never had a shot. I don't know if it's a problem of the queue not balancing the teams right as much as there just not being any healers in the queue. Would love to see the statistics on that.</p><p><strong>Battlefield of Ganak:</strong> Nothing much I didn't expect here. I was able to get to the other team's flag but got gang-pounced on the run back. This leads me to my observation...</p><p>I'm pretty sure each time I went in, I got put on a PUG against a group from the same guild on <strong>pvp</strong> server. I <em>know</em> that was the case for my experience of Gears and Battlefield as I saw their guild tags while they teabagged me. This will probably end up being a huge complaint for the PvE people. I went in wearing the lvl 80 BG gear and it helped me survive a few hits, but their tactics obviously overwhelmed us. This may just be a PUG vs. Pre-Made problem, but it might be worth watching to see if it becomes a pvp-geared vs BG geared problem.</p><p>Also I don't know if it's logistically possible to have the queue go PUG vs PUG and Premade vs Premade. Would certainly make the matches better.</p></blockquote><p>the matchmaking is unbalanced and very broken.  Soe was warned of this repeatedly during test and did nothing.  The worst part is/was (I havent been in the bgs since test) that there is no conceed button.  So when a grp is stomping you 600 to nothing you have to take it and stay logged on for the asreswhopping or log and take the penalty.  Loads of fun.</p>

Putyo
02-25-2010, 11:03 PM
<p>There needs to be some sort of matchmaking, Took a guild group in there and completely, utterly destroyed every single instance, the other team didnt have a chance. It really sucks playing BGs all day and you get 1 good fight out of maybe 50. Why cant we arrange 6v6s?</p><p>It really sucks reinviting your group after you leave the battlegrounds.</p><p>Most people load in with 15-20seconds to spare before the match starts and espacially in the x2 the groups get screwed up and switched around, not enough time to fix it.</p><p>Revive screen needs an option to stay dead and wait for a rez, auto rez after 20seconds really sucks unless you enjoy zerging like an idiot.</p><p>If you hold the relic in 6v6 and you have a deathsave go off(bloodletter for example) you drop the relic but the incurable elemental stays on you until you die for real.</p><p>Losing all your keybinds and movement key settings really blows and 20 seconds is not enough time to fix it before a match (Please dont go overboard and make us wait 5minutes, because we all know you will if someone doesnt say otherwise...)</p><p>Why do people get added to your group if you have less then the maximum amount? Why cant we go in with 5 people or 10 people in the x2, most random pickups screw your strat up.</p><p>Getting a token for losing is by far the most carebear crap ive ever seen in my life</p>

Aeadiin
02-25-2010, 11:45 PM
<p>There needs to be an 80+ set of gear to buy, otherwise the 80-89 BG's are always going to be dominated by the PvP servers, based off of gear alone.</p>

Armironhead
02-25-2010, 11:51 PM
<p>while stompping nubs is fun for a bit, the matchmaker is so borked its not funny.  700 to 40 on gears. Also did a capture the flag one that wasnt close although i cant remember the score.  In fact only had one close fight so far and that was in the hold the towers one.</p>

Melanchol
02-26-2010, 12:48 AM
pvp peoples are having a field day against the pve people's curiosity.

Sphiriah
02-26-2010, 12:53 AM
<p><cite>Aeadiin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>There needs to be an 80+ set of gear to buy, otherwise the 80-89 BG's are always going to be dominated by the PvP servers, based off of gear alone.</p></blockquote><p>^ This.</p>

Antu
02-26-2010, 12:56 AM
<p>Were you going in with the level 80 BG armor on?</p>

Sphiriah
02-26-2010, 01:02 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Were you going in with the level 80 BG armor on?</p></blockquote><p>Where is this armor? The only armor I've seen available on PvE servers is the level 90 gear.</p>

Antu
02-26-2010, 01:05 AM
<p>Level 80 Armorsmiths, Tailors, Weaponsmiths (I think), and Jewelers (I think) can get special recipes to make BG armor from the Isle of Mara if they have Far Seas Tradeskill faction. Each recipe requires Incarnadine, which is rare, but which is running about 1p on AB right now.</p>

Antu
02-26-2010, 01:07 AM
<p>Er...each armorsmithing recipe does. I wear chain so that's what I had to fork over. Don't know about the rest, but I reckon they require T8 rares.</p>

Grobi
02-26-2010, 01:13 AM
<p>supply and demand , in the moment i dont see any crafted pvp armor on the broker in crushbone and if ppl start going for it than the price will prolly skyrocket.</p><p>im not willing to pay like 100pp for a pvp set just for fun. i had some fun today in the bgs but it gets old soon for me. to bad the armor looks awesome so i have to farm at least tokens for the chain helmet.</p>

Antu
02-26-2010, 01:33 AM
<p>The chain set is called Moonshadow.</p><ul><li>Moonshadow Vest - 71 toughness</li><li>Moonshadow Spaulders - 33 toughness</li><li>Moonshadow Mask - 33 toughness</li><li>Moonshadow Leggings - 54 toughness</li><li>Moonshadow Gloves - 33 toughness</li><li>Moonshadow Cuffs - 15 toughness</li><li>Moonshadow Boots -  15 toughness</li></ul><p>Just get the rares and find an armorsmith. No reason to pay 100pp.</p>

InstaCler
02-26-2010, 02:12 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>the matchmaking is unbalanced and very broken.  Soe was warned of this repeatedly during test and did nothing.  The worst part is/was (I havent been in the bgs since test) that there is no conceed button.  So when a grp is stomping you 600 to nothing you have to take it and stay logged on for the asreswhopping or log and take the penalty.  Loads of fun.</p></blockquote><p>I don't understand why this is so hard for them to do.  If you have a pool of 12 players for gears, and 2 are healing classes, put one on each team instead of both on one team.  This code would probably take about 30 minutes to write.</p>

Antu
02-26-2010, 02:21 AM
<p>Here we go: <a href="http://eq2.eqtraders.com/articles/article_page.php?article=g414&menustr=115000000000" target="_blank">Battlegrounds Armor at EQ2 Trader's Corner</a>. As usual Denmum's on the ball.</p>

Antu
02-26-2010, 02:22 AM
<p><cite>InstaCleric wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>the matchmaking is unbalanced and very broken.  Soe was warned of this repeatedly during test and did nothing.  The worst part is/was (I havent been in the bgs since test) that there is no conceed button.  So when a grp is stomping you 600 to nothing you have to take it and stay logged on for the asreswhopping or log and take the penalty.  Loads of fun.</p></blockquote><p>I don't understand why this is so hard for them to do.  If you have a pool of 12 players for gears, and 2 are healing classes, put one on each team instead of both on one team.  This code would probably take about 30 minutes to write.</p></blockquote><p>I think the problem is that there aren't that many healers joining. The queue might not be programmed to wait until there's a healer in both groups.</p>

Metal_Starz
02-26-2010, 02:56 AM
<p> I gave it a try and thought BG would be much more fun. If I wanted to play Unreal Tournament I would load up that game instead. The PUGs were horrible..lol. I don't recommend joining BG by yourself. Almost every group I had people would spawn and run out to die before grouping up to get organized. </p><p>Having separate armor for BGs is also crap.  I liked it better when PvP gear was great but still not quite raid quality, and everything worked for pve and pvp. If you wanted the best gear you had to earn it by playing the game the way it was intentionally made and not pvp zerg for it. I wouldn't cry if a raid guild group rolled me because I know they worked their butt off for that gear and me being lazy just ran around in MC. I'm not going to say "Not fair, give me the same gear so i can pvp better even though they worked hard for theirs" Making people run around with two sets of armor just blows.</p><p>This BGs thing is screwing the whole game up for me. I feel like there are three separate games now. I can pvp, pve, or play unreal tournament with my eq2 toon, but can't do all equally because my gear is not universal. Eq2 pvp turned into giving everyone the same armor for almost nothing and not having any reward for kills. I probably see the game a lot different than most. The reason I ever raided was to get some gear that would help me out in pvp and get aa, not to kill some mob. I'm frustrated with all these gear changes.</p><p>Also: Giving tokens for losing in BG is a horrible idea! "Hey, you suck. Here is a token"</p>

InstaCler
02-26-2010, 03:06 AM
<p><cite>Metal_Starz wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Also: Giving tokens for losing in BG is a horrible idea! "Hey, you suck. Here is a token"</p></blockquote><p>It's an incentive to play even if you don't have much of a chance at winning - good for keeping the BGs viable and not just limited to a hardcore few.</p>

Ragepoint
02-26-2010, 03:38 AM
PVP servers need to only group with pvp for a while. pve servers don't have players [Removed for Content] out in toughness gear. its a waste when we get into a zone full of naga peeps we just sit and let them win because nothing can be done to stop them

Metal_Starz
02-26-2010, 03:46 AM
<p><cite>Ragepoint wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>PVP servers need to only group with pvp for a while. pve servers don't have players [Removed for Content] out in toughness gear. its a waste when we get into a zone full of naga peeps we just sit and let them win because nothing can be done to stop them </blockquote><p>  You are also going against people that know how to pvp so having the same gear isn't going to make much of a difference anyway. You can get a full set of BG gear in a week if you win or lose.</p>

Alphazero68Niner
02-26-2010, 03:54 AM
<p>If anything the token ammount should be double for PvE IF they win, just because it is a slaughter when you see an entire Naggy guild group, with t4, and you dont even have a healer. Happen 3 times now, where it has been 3 tanks and 1 bard and 2 mages. Or limit naggy groups to 3 for the start so it is not a teabag feast.</p>

Aeadiin
02-26-2010, 04:05 AM
<p>I was in the MC crafted gear, but against PvP gear, it's just not enough.  There needs to be a purchasable 80's BG set equivilant to the pvp gearset.</p>

Hellswrath
02-26-2010, 04:41 AM
<p><cite>Aeadiin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I was in the MC crafted gear, but against PvP gear, it's just not enough.  There needs to be a purchasable 80's BG set equivilant to the pvp gearset.</p></blockquote><p>Agreed.  I have a set of the Lvl 80 BG gear, and the stats don't come close to being good enough to go up against anyhting even romotely decent off a PvP geared toon.</p><p>I played for ~4 hours today in BG.  Ended up with 27 tokens.  I was in both pugs and took a guild group in for a good while.  In both cases we spent a lot of time getting hammered by Nagafen/Vox players.  The gear balance issues were more than obvious.</p><p>I can't see people sticking around to get hammered long enough to earn a set of BG gear from the merchants at this rate.  Something really needs to be done here or a lot of the enthusiasm from PvE players will go away.</p><p>No one likes uneven matches.</p>

Rast2
02-26-2010, 05:05 AM
<p><cite>Aeadiin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I was in the MC crafted gear, but against PvP gear, it's just not enough.  There needs to be a purchasable 80's BG set equivilant to the pvp gearset.</p></blockquote><p>Beyond agreed,  feels like walking into a gun fight with a butter knife.</p>

Aeadiin
02-26-2010, 05:15 AM
<p><cite>Alphazero68Niner wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If anything the token ammount should be double for PvE IF they win, just because it is a slaughter when you see an entire Naggy guild group, with t4, and you dont even have a healer. Happen 3 times now, where it has been 3 tanks and 1 bard and 2 mages. Or limit naggy groups to 3 for the start so it is not a teabag feast.</p></blockquote><p>Can't punish the Naggy people for having priests joining their groups.</p>

aspit
02-26-2010, 05:37 AM
<p>2 things</p><p>Running with any speed modifications is absolutely rediculous in capture the flag. No other game allows this.</p><p>Take Divine intervention spells out of the game. Several tanks were bugging it making us kill them 20 times over cause the kept popping back up.</p>

aspit
02-26-2010, 05:39 AM
<p>The flag bearer should be running 75 percent and have no modifications on his run speed.</p><p>Anything over 100 is a joke.</p>

Poem
02-26-2010, 05:39 AM
<p>I was really looking forward to battlegrounds. Played similar games that had bg and always enjoyed them. But after playing eq2 bg for hours tonight I have to say I am really disappointed. The main issue I have is the fact pve servers are going against pvp ones. Who thought this was a good idea?? Nevermind the gear...which is an issue...but how can we expect to compete against ppl who pvp all the time? *shrug*</p><p>By the time the night was thru I was disappointed and felt like giving up. I really really hope SOE reconsiders this pvp vs. pve issue. Otherwise bg are just going to be ignored on most servers imo.</p>

rareyrare
02-26-2010, 08:05 AM
<p>I dunno if it's a Profit UI thing, or something messed up with the BG's, but when I zoned in, I selected my old UI settings, but everything was still borked. Only 1 hot bar,  had to manually open 2 and resize them all, resulting in of course much lost time, and couldn't seem to figu out how to drag them in the middle of the battle :-/ I hope this is addressed soon, because as is, it's basically unplayable for me :-/</p>

Armironhead
02-26-2010, 09:28 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I was really looking forward to battlegrounds. Played similar games that had bg and always enjoyed them. But after playing eq2 bg for hours tonight I have to say I am really disappointed. The main issue I have is the fact pve servers are going against pvp ones. Who thought this was a good idea?? Nevermind the gear...which is an issue...but how can we expect to compete against ppl who pvp all the time? *shrug*</p><p>By the time the night was thru I was disappointed and felt like giving up. I really really hope SOE reconsiders this pvp vs. pve issue. Otherwise bg are just going to be ignored on most servers imo.</p></blockquote><p>The random matchmaking system is completely broken.  Soe was warned of this repeatedly during test, but did nothing.  Proving that nothing gets between soe and a bad idea.  The matchmaker does not take into account whether a grp is premade, classes, gear, etc. . . So what you wind up with is a premade grp with 2 healers and a couple of warlocks in uber gear, buttstomping a pug with a paly as its only healer.  600 or 700 to 0 was a common score in klack during test.</p><p>Soe's answer (by rothgard) has always been wait till everybody has toughness gear and then things will be fair.  Of course this is utter bs.  Sure things will even out when folk get a little more skilled and gear is handed out, but the imbalances in the matchmaker will remain.</p><p>First impressions are important. If a players first impression of the bgs is that they are utterly imbalanced teabagging playgrounds for premades, then the bgs will not be very successful.</p><p>In order for the bgs to work (and quite frankly I hope they dont as I prefer open world to be successful), soe needs to give more control of matchmaking to the players.  People need to be able to see who they are about to fight and have a choice in whether to accept or decline the match. Preferably players should be able to set up the matches themselves, through some sort of lobby area. If soe is hellbent on sticking with the matchmaker, they should implement a player ranking system, which the matchmaker could take into account so that vets are not matched unduly against nubs.</p><p>Finally, there needs to be a concede button. Its fun buttstomping nubs and newbees, its unfair to force them to either ld or stick around for the asswhoping.</p>

LivelyHound
02-26-2010, 09:52 AM
<p><cite>Alphazero68Niner wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If anything the token ammount should be double for PvE IF they win, just because it is a slaughter when you see an entire Naggy guild group, with t4, and you dont even have a healer. Happen 3 times now, where it has been 3 tanks and 1 bard and 2 mages. Or limit naggy groups to 3 for the start so it is not a teabag feast.</p></blockquote><p>QFT x 4 x 10 x a million</p><p>If we see that can we please get the option to concede, waiting around for the 5 mins it takes to get them the points to win is dull.</p>

Brokol
02-26-2010, 10:00 AM
<p>Matchmaker is horrible. I ended up in a number of pugs with no healer vs a team with 2 healers (seemed normally premade) eventually in the gear zone I just started running around using emotes (dance, etc.) to the other team while they killed me or would just run around the middle to see how long it took to die.</p>

Armironhead
02-26-2010, 10:33 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Matchmaker is horrible. I ended up in a number of pugs with no healer vs a team with 2 healers (seemed normally premade) eventually in the gear zone I just started running around using emotes (dance, etc.) to the other team while they killed me or would just run around the middle to see how long it took to die.</p></blockquote><p>gear/klack is the worst of the zones.  It is too small and should not be used for grp on grp.  It would probably be ok for a 6 v 6 ffa, but other then that, it is simply too easy for one grp to domniate the zone.</p>

Dannnybones
02-26-2010, 10:48 AM
<p>I know for some it's tough, but not all of the PVE guilds faired badly.  Exordium stands out in my mind as having rocked...95% of the people you will see from Nagafen are able to be killed in the MC BG gear. </p>

rareyrare
02-26-2010, 11:00 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I dunno if it's a Profit UI thing, or something messed up with the BG's, but when I zoned in, I selected my old UI settings, but everything was still borked. Only 1 hot bar,  had to manually open 2 and resize them all, resulting in of course much lost time, and couldn't seem to figu out how to drag them in the middle of the battle :-/ I hope this is addressed soon, because as is, it's basically unplayable for me :-/</p></blockquote><p>NM....</p><p>/loadui</p><p>/load_uisettings ftw, heh.</p>

Kevlar218
02-26-2010, 11:13 AM
<p>I don't mind losing to naggy premades, but comon, when we dont have a healer in a Tower pug out of 12 people and they have 4?  Might as well stand there and grab your ankles.  There needs to be some sort of balance in the Queue that won't start the match unless each team has the same, if not a minimum, amount of healers.  Ran the Klak zone several times and ran into groups with 2 healers and we had none.  Or as someone suggested before, make the pvp server have its own BG and let the PVE servers gear up for a month or so. </p>

QuaiCon
02-26-2010, 11:22 AM
<p>just had a bug happen to me.</p><p>i listed for battlegrounds on my dirge, bit later the window popped up which asked me if i want to go to gears. clicked yes but did not get zoned. tried same again a few times but nver got zoned. so thought i should relog. and now after relogging my char is displayed to be in gears of klak'anon - runnyeye server. and wehn i click play on character select game tells me it cannot find my character.</p><p>here is a screenshot of that error:</p><p><a href="http://www.beyond-divine.com/xoops/uploads/photos/482.jpg" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.beyond-divine.com/xoops/.../photos/482.jpg</a></p>

Inferius
02-26-2010, 11:33 AM
<p>Having to recast my pet and all its buffs everytime I enter a BG and then having to rebuff the pet when I die is a pain.</p><p>Time is of the essence in a BG dont wanna have to spend precious time rebuffin plz.</p><p>Otherwise great work guys I love the BG's and cant stop doing them even though those pesky Naggy types are a tough bunch ive still killed my fair share RAWR!!</p><p>Nektulos till I die!!which is a lot hehe</p><p>Thanks</p>

Aquemeni
02-26-2010, 11:46 AM
<p>Ran the Battlegrounds for almost 7 hours straight.</p><p>my 2cp...</p><p>The Group generator is awesome.  You don't have to sit around and wait for 2 hours trying to get in a battleground.</p><p>You wont always have the ideal group, having a group full of dps and no healer is still well capable of a lot if properly organized and coordinated.</p><p>Versatility is very important to being a good player in PvP AND PvE!</p><p>The PvP folks definitely stood out as the "toughest" competition as they already had some pvpgear, but comon....we all know that in pvp, or pve, this game is about 80% player skill...10% gear...and 10% common sense! (should be included in player skill i guess) <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p><p>I ran Klak with a premade TSO Avatar geared guild group.  SK, conj, conj, warden, dirge, assassin.  We fought a ton of different guilds from different servers.  The first couple groups we fought we completely rolled.  It was almost unfair. Random pre-mades, as well as pug's.</p><p>We ran into a few groups from Naggy and Vox...didn't have much of an issue.  We seriously, at one point, thought we were fighting a group from naggy of a guy 6 boxing. (One of our players recalled the name being a notorious raid boxer)</p><p>Overall with my guild group, we definitely came out with more W's than L's.</p><p>We also did Ganak's.  The first raid vs Pre-made Onyx. 4 healers, etc...the works.</p><p>Our raid leader was busy licking a window and our group setups were terribad.</p><p>Mind you I think we only had 2 healers for the whole raid.  Warden + Fury....but we got obliterated.</p><p>With more time to ogranize group setups, we might not have embarassed ouselves quite as much...maybe</p><p>Next raid, Smugglers run....</p><p>I'm the raid leader...WOOO HOOOOO!!!</p><p>Scramble to move groups....move my 6 man guild klak group all together. Get the raid setup...tons of fighters, but had a good amount of healers.  </p><p>We end up splitting into almost 2 even groups of 12....My group was rolling anyone we ran through, strength in numbers.  Lots of 1 shotting mages with a bow auto-double attack.  Root, snare...bow auto attack, they die and I laugh.</p><p>Our enemies included a several members of notable top end guilds, as did our allies.  It was an epic battle to go down in history lol</p><p>For anyone who cares, I killed Ghalon like 6 times <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Also ran several hours of joining groups for all 3 maps as a solo Dirge.</p><p>Had groups full of tanks and no heals, or Mages and 1 healer, but no tank.</p><p>Groups with 3 bards, 2 chanters, and a ranger....we ended up OWNING some other pug with no healer</p><p>All different setups I could possibly think of, I ended up grouping.</p><p>Personally, I think the situations where you are at advantage, or disadvantage will make everyone a better player.</p><p>It forces you to adapt to countless numbers of situations that one might not normally experience otherwise, or nearly as often.</p><p>The rewards are awesome!  The gear is very nice, especially for the bg (duh)...but the tokens are also heirloom. WIN!!! (Altaholic here)</p><p>I think the best part about the battlegrouns is that it gives everyone something to do, solo or grouped, and it allows players to group with/against players from around the world, allowing for a much higher playability rate by every single subscriber at all hours of the day around the world!!</p><p>Crafters even profit from battlegrounds, even if the crafting subscriber doesn't pvp, they can still greatly benefit by selling crafted good consumed by the pvp'ers.   This is definitely going to "boost the EQ2" economy, not just server wide...but globally.</p><p>I no longer feel bad paying my monthly subscription.</p><p>P.S. There's NO LAG on Battlegrounds!!! WOOO!!! (Pooor Pooooor Cruchbone <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/499fd50bc713bfcdf2ab5a23c00c2d62.gif" border="0" />)</p><p>Two thumbs <span style="font-size: large;">WAY</span><span style="font-size: small;"> up for SoE!!! <span style="font-size: 12px;"><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /></span></span></p><p>Edit**</p><p>-------Pro's--------</p><p>Group generator -  (playability at all hours worldwide)</p><p>PvE vs PvP groups - (advantage/disadvantage versatility)</p><p>Realism of damage - (warded enemies proved much more difficult to kill than non-warded enemies etc.)</p><p>Rewards - (crafters benefit, raiders benefit, casual players benefit)</p><p>Latency - (This new battlegrounds server is amazingly lag-free, can you please trade it for Crushbone?) <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p><p>--------Con's---------</p><p>Bug's/exploits - (just need to be found, reported, and fixed. They're inevitable, we need to do our part to help fix them.)</p><p>One suggestion I really liked was to impliment a ranking system.  To the naive subscriber....me....it sounds like it would be easily plausible, and very manageable/helpful to both developer and player.</p><p>Giving players the possible option of competing agaist an opponent more suitable to their own skill.</p><p>I envision a check box in the battlegrounds menu with the option to, "Fight similar ranked opponents"</p><p>Fighting similar opponents will always take the average rank of a group into consideration before entering.</p><p>Sorry to rant....I'm just so freaking excited that I can't see straight!</p>

Ravaan
02-26-2010, 12:02 PM
<p>i hate to say this but i dont see why Nagafen was even allowed to play in BGs. they already have their own PVP why should their full groups of geared players ruin our fun.</p><p>thats my only complaint.</p>

asaron
02-26-2010, 12:54 PM
<p>BG's are ruining open world pvp as a nagafen vet this is gettin old gettin crapped on every time something happens  make the bg armor for bg only   lol you have destroyed open world pvp with the new zerg fest of bg bg armor should be bg only.   Why would you even want to pvp for real anymore gear sets are identical and bg will get them in a 5th of the time.  isolate the gear  save world pvp  once again you got people hideing in instances to gear out to even compete in REAL PVP!   Might aswell disable pvp on naggafen if you are going to continue to allow the gear to work in openworld!</p><p>STOP WOWIFICATION IN 2010 QUIT STEALING IDEAS FROM GUILD WARS, WAR, WOW AND ANY OTHER CRAP GAME YOU THINK HAS MORE SUBS THAN THE ONE YOU FAIL TO ADVERTISE FOR!</p>

Inferius
02-26-2010, 01:04 PM
<p>Erm server came back up but BG's are not accessible at the moment is the message I get when I try to join one <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</p><p>Have they been switched back off?</p><p>Inquiring minds want to know hehe.</p>

asaron
02-26-2010, 01:10 PM
<p>Bah atleast you can loggin .  I cant get nagafen to load up sits at entring game then about 5 mins i get message there is currently no zone for your toon</p>

Bassman
02-26-2010, 02:18 PM
<p>Quite honestly, I have no clue why on a pvp server Sony would even offer BG gear.  The gear is exactly the same as pvp gear.  If they want PVP gear make them go PVP.  Give PVE servers a leg up and offer them BG gear for sure, but why in the world give them the PVP gear in BG for basically stomping people in crap gear who line up to die to Nagafen pvpers?</p><p>Everyone was so anti-zerg in KP, and yet if they form lines to die in order, its ok.  (wow)</p>

asaron
02-26-2010, 02:20 PM
<p>see belowar understands this is killing real pvp. isolate the bg gear to bg only</p>

Widjet
02-26-2010, 02:53 PM
<div>My only complaint so far is that they need to remove gnomish boots from BG's.. Not really cool during CTF when one person can pretty much get ontop of the roofs and jst sit there. I saw this happen during a game yesterday and it pretty much turned it into the one team having the one person with the flag sit on walls safely and everyone else go get their flag back and capture it easily. Totally ruins the whole guarding strategy. As more people learn it.. Games are just going to take forever and getting those badges will be painful.Besides that im digging Battlegrounds alot.</div>

Lather
02-26-2010, 03:01 PM
I see several different complaints with pretty invalid arguments (save the lack of healers). Im on naggy have 0 pvp gear and did pug all day and maybe lost 3 games in 8+ hours of bg's (i havent played for this kinda duration in a long time). But smugglers den is the biggest waste of a bg scenario....other 2 are great though.

Edavi
02-26-2010, 03:12 PM
<p>Maybe a surrender option where 80% of your team must agree but u can throw in the towel... heh My PUG team just got met with a premade team in klack, to be honest we havnt killed a single one of them yet, we have no healer and 5 people...</p><p>Would be nice if we didnt have to sit though this <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>And no rewards should be given to the loser btw</p>

kcirrot
02-26-2010, 03:24 PM
<p>I did a couple of matches on all three battlegrounds last night and here are my thoughts:</p><p>GENERAL FEEDBACK:</p><p>I love Battlegrounds.  Objective based PvP is very fun IMO.  I do think that the matchmaking system needs improvement.  In the first instance, I don't believe premade groups/raids should be matched with PUG soloers.  It's very, very unfair.  Especially in the Gears. </p><p>We need a cheap set of PvP gear that has some Toughness on it.  Where the Fabled is priced at 30-50 a piece, this should be 4-5 a piece.  I felt that I was both doing too much damage and taking too much.</p><p>Healers, as is good strategy, are highly targeted.  My Fury was a prime target, but I still had a great time.  But I heard from others that this is a major impediment to their enjoyment.  I don't know how to fix this, if at all.  But I'm concerned that only premade groups will have healers if this continues.</p><p>On healing, healers need to be able to cast beneficial spells while moving.  Even with my fast casting heals, it's really hard to stand still in PvP.  This makes you a sitting duck.</p><p>GEARS:</p><p>This game sucks!  Without exception, I found myself up against premade groups who were organized.  This made it impossible for a PUG to do anything other than die over and over.  Once a group has the relic and can retreat to a corridor, it is extremely easy to protect the relic holder.  The opposing team can't even get into range without the initiative going to the other side.  Very unfun.</p><p>GANAK:</p><p>Very fun, as I felt both of the raid instances were.  Even PUGs you seem to have a chance and the maps are large enough to give you time to regroup.  There were less premade teams which made it more competitive.</p><p>SMUGGLER'S DEN:</p><p>Very fun, see comments for GANAK.</p>

kcirrot
02-26-2010, 03:39 PM
<p><cite>Edavi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>And no rewards should be given to the loser btw</p></blockquote><p>With no way to get geared up while you're learning, BG would be far too frustrating to continue.  I truly do see your point, but if they were going to do this, then they need to add Toughness to PvE armor and/or provide some means to earn PvP quality gear on the PvE servers besides the Mastercrafted stuff.</p>

yadlajoi
02-26-2010, 03:42 PM
using gnomish silt boots to hide the flag to a place isnt really sportlike

Sydares
02-27-2010, 05:08 AM
<p>I will love Battlegrounds.</p><p>In a week or so, after I slog through the teeth-grinding annoyance of facing off against PvP servers that are already in full PvP regalia to get my own set.</p>

Notsovilepriest
02-27-2010, 05:30 AM
<p><cite>kcirrot wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I did a couple of matches on all three battlegrounds last night and here are my thoughts:</p><p>GENERAL FEEDBACK:</p><p>I love Battlegrounds.  Objective based PvP is very fun IMO.  I do think that the matchmaking system needs improvement.  In the first instance, I don't believe premade groups/raids should be matched with PUG soloers.  It's very, very unfair.  Especially in the Gears. </p><p>We need a cheap set of PvP gear that has some Toughness on it.  Where the Fabled is priced at 30-50 a piece, this should be 4-5 a piece.  I felt that I was both doing too much damage and taking too much.</p><p><span style="color: #800000;">There is already MC Toughness Gear...</span></p><p>Healers, as is good strategy, are highly targeted.  My Fury was a prime target, but I still had a great time.  But I heard from others that this is a major impediment to their enjoyment.  I don't know how to fix this, if at all.  But I'm concerned that only premade groups will have healers if this continues.</p><p><span style="color: #800000;">Welcome to PvP. The other team doesn't want healers to be able to heal, They don't want you to live. If that would impede people enjoying battlegrounds, then battlegrounds are not for them.Plus getting a decent tank will do wonders.</span></p><p>On healing, healers need to be able to cast beneficial spells while moving.  Even with my fast casting heals, it's really hard to stand still in PvP.  This makes you a sitting duck.</p><p><span style="color: #800000;">This would be extremely overpowering. You will learn to adapt if you stick with it. This isn't PvP encounters where you want to stand totally with the group in some situations.</span></p><p>GEARS:</p><p>This game sucks!  Without exception, I found myself up against premade groups who were organized.  This made it impossible for a PUG to do anything other than die over and over.  Once a group has the relic and can retreat to a corridor, it is extremely easy to protect the relic holder.  The opposing team can't even get into range without the initiative going to the other side.  Very unfun.</p><p>GANAK:</p><p>Very fun, as I felt both of the raid instances were.  Even PUGs you seem to have a chance and the maps are large enough to give you time to regroup.  There were less premade teams which made it more competitive.</p><p>SMUGGLER'S DEN:</p><p>Very fun, see comments for GANAK.</p></blockquote>

Armironhead
02-27-2010, 11:06 AM
<p><cite>yadlajoi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>using gnomish silt boots to hide the flag to a place isnt really sportlike</blockquote><p>How about this -- get some boots yourself.  Place them on your hot bar.  Apply brain to problem.  Follow them.  Where they go so can you.</p><p>There problem solved.</p><p>P.S. I know this is not blueebee whack a mole, but come on - you want to play in a pvp environment then you have to expect your opponents to actually think and try strats that give them an advantage -- you then will have to respond with your own tactics to counter what they do.  If its not for you then go back and whack some scripted dragons.</p>

Lather
02-27-2010, 11:12 AM
People keep referencing this mc toughness and im willing to bet they have even looked at how god awful this stuff is.....

asaron
02-27-2010, 12:47 PM
<p>stat  and mit wise its not great compared to pvp gear lather but  according tot he all powerfull devs the toughness is where its at and it has identical toughness to our pvp set and on the healers being prime target well not to be rude but duhh kill the healer even in a pve enviroment you kill the healer first and your gonna have to adapt to healing while being hit  and chased healers on nagafen are soem of the tougest enemies  in the game</p>

Armironhead
02-27-2010, 01:20 PM
<p>just did another klack run 701 to 8.  We had no healer, 2 assassins, 2 tanks, a caster and a ranger, the other grp had 2 healers, scouts and casters.  Strangely our team kicked their [Removed for Content].  Nonetheless the matachmaker fails again.</p><p>On another note the little symbols next to your name indicating your toon type need to go it is way to carebearish and makes it too easy to pick out healers for abuse.  Just have folk read the buffs like regular pvp.</p>

Ace235228
02-27-2010, 01:24 PM
<p>Please remove In-Combat run speed, or atleast cap it at a decent level.</p><p>It's impossible to take down a tank with the flag if they have a druid's 100% in combat run speed buff especially since to capture the flag all you have to do is walk over your flag instead of having an interuptable clicky.</p>

Ahlana
02-27-2010, 01:31 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>People keep referencing this mc toughness and im willing to bet they have even looked at how god awful this stuff is.....</blockquote><p>Actually me and some guildies did an experiment.. Dropped our T8 PVP gear for MC PVP gear to see if it would actually help the PVEers that much... and we still won... alot.</p><p>It isn't the gear it is being or not being prepared for BGs that is getting people killed. Yes the MC BG gear out performs PVE gear in the BG, maybe not as good as straight up T8 PVP gear but it does give a fighting change, we even held our own against a few PVP groups in it.</p><p>Seriously try it.. Take a stacked group, with PVP AA spec, potions ect... and MC PVP gear and you will find that you are still winning more than losing as a PVP team. Then it comes down to being prepared/skilled and not gear. It is a cheap experiment as the MC PVP gear uses T8 rares for the most part.</p>

Techavb
02-27-2010, 05:18 PM
<p>I didn't like the bgs at first but now that I've got my keys setup and have a better understanding of what the objectives are, I'm really enjoying them. There are some things that need fine tuned but overall I think the balance is decent. Burst damage is a little out of control but that should fix itself when people start getting the pvp gear that has enormous amounts of health. My big worry is how long will 3 maps keep people playing? They are small and after only around 10 hours of total playtime, I'm already getting a little bored with them.</p>

Cabel
02-27-2010, 05:23 PM
<p>Battlegrounds are great, but need some things fixed:</p><p>1.)  Ganak kills don't update quest.</p><p>2.)  Klak'Anon win doesn't update quest.</p><p>3.)  Can't pick up any more repeatables once the ones that do work are completed.</p><p>4.)  Don't always get experience after a match.  I have and haven't received experience with kills and no deaths, kills greater than deaths, deaths greater than kills, and no kills to some deaths.  This can't be based on kill:death ratio, so either I'm missing something, or it's bugged.</p><p>5.)  Server load time after a match is anywhere from 10 seconds to 10 minutes.</p><p>These are bugs or issues I've found with it.  Other than these 5 items, it's a great addition to the game!</p>

g0thiC_iCe_cReaM
02-28-2010, 03:13 PM
<p>If it hasn't been mentioned already, queuing as a group should return you to that group upon exiting.</p><p>It would be nice if when you queue as a group you end up in the same raid group when you zone into the bg.</p>

Hersche
02-28-2010, 04:03 PM
<p>After playing the BG last night I see that SoE really needs to reexamine the mechanics on this.  I see no risk involved in doing BGs compared to doing questing/ group heroic instances.  There is no repairing of your armor, no experience debt, no loss of coin or items.  I was getting about 3% experience per 5 minutes of gameplay doing this.  For losing you still recieve a cog.  I can see that if you dont change this, you will diminish the amounts of players willing to do the PVE content, as its easier to level doing BGs then any other grinding.</p>

Ryptide
02-28-2010, 04:17 PM
<p>First and foremost, SOE needs to fix the zoning issues.  Getting locked in the zone, in the queue to log back to your home server for 30 minutes or more is outrageous.  After 30 minutes of being patient quite a few people have tried quitting out only to find that they can't log back in on that toon.  This has happened to me this morning and I have not been able to play my character for almost 2 hours and counting now.  That is completely unacceptable.</p><p>As for gameplay, everything seems fine except for the people that go afk for the entire event.  Perhaps a minimum death / kill / heal score should have to be reached in order to lose the event and still gain a token.</p>

Sphiriah
02-28-2010, 04:32 PM
<p><cite>Hersche wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>After playing the BG last night I see that SoE really needs to reexamine the mechanics on this.  I see no risk involved in doing BGs compared to doing questing/ group heroic instances.  There is no repairing of your armor, no experience debt, no loss of coin or items.  I was getting about 3% experience per 5 minutes of gameplay doing this.  For losing you still recieve a cog.  I can see that if you dont change this, you will diminish the amounts of players willing to do the PVE content, as its easier to level doing BGs then any other grinding.</p></blockquote><p>lol? They're aren't supposed to be risks for this kind of thing.</p>

Adba
02-28-2010, 05:33 PM
<p>Still waiting for Battlegrounds to be re-re-re-activated on <strong>Splitpaw</strong>..</p><p>As is, we can Queue up fine, get invite, and then >poof<  <strong>"Battlegrounds are currently unavailable"</strong></p>

Cabel
02-28-2010, 05:57 PM
<p><cite>Hersche wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>After playing the BG last night I see that SoE really needs to reexamine the mechanics on this.  I see no risk involved in doing BGs compared to doing questing/ group heroic instances.  There is no repairing of your armor, no experience debt, no loss of coin or items.  I was getting about 3% experience per 5 minutes of gameplay doing this.  For losing you still recieve a cog.  I can see that if you dont change this, you will diminish the amounts of players willing to do the PVE content, as its easier to level doing BGs then any other grinding.</p></blockquote><p>It goes slower at around level 88.  Without the one cog for a loss, i don't think i'd play as much as I did.</p>

Nayawk
02-28-2010, 06:36 PM
<p>There are several major points to do with BGs that I'd like to feedback.</p><p>First a question... Are battlegrounds suppose to be viable for a range of playstyles or are they not?</p><p>I ask this because reading the build up to them I got the impression that BGs were going to be a fun quick mini game which you could blast through when you had a spare 15 mins or while waiting for something in the actual game to happen.  This doesn't seem to be the case.</p><p>There are a few very helpful PVP'er who have suggested alot of tips, but if you follow those suggestions then BGs stops being a mini game and starts being a full time job.</p><p>For example, say I'm out solo'ing and I have a 15 min re-spawn wait, the perfect time for a quick BG game to pass the time, except if I follow the suggestions I need to have a full set of BG gear and jewellery plus endless potions and totems in my now very full bags at all times and a BG AA spec, oh and I can't go in solo, I need to make sure I go in a premade group that has the proper make up. </p><p>So I guess I ask again, is this suppose to be a add on mini game viable for all or a dedicated playstyle in and of itself.</p><p>A few other possible suggestions that might help with keeping as many pve's playing as possible:</p><ul><li>Could we please change the tokens given to a single token type ala shard gear, everyone has there favourite BG map or more importantly the BG map they hate with a passion, and requiring people to grind a zone they hate just to get half of the price for a piece is going to put people off.</li><li>Do something about the matching system, pairing a full pvp guild group against a mainly pve pug will again put people off if thats all they see, so fair what I'm seeing is alot of that happening specifically in Gears, and somewhat in Ganak. </li><li>AFK'ing, stop it somehow.. it's bad enough when pve's see they are out classed but when half the team go AFK the whole team might as well. </li><li>Stop procs/gear/spells which are pvp specific and not available at all on pve or make them available to all.</li><li>Consider a ranking system, most FPS's have them even if they are unoffical and self imposed. To those people saying well you don't play a FPS and expect to gank the top scorers, a rookie is never going to gank a expert because they are never in the same games, due to the rankings. (battlefield 1942 for the win btw)</li></ul><p>I know that all sounds like a lot of negatives, so I do want to say I love BGs and I'd like to see them thrive among the PVE community.</p>

LefiloToE
02-28-2010, 09:10 PM
<p>Make it so at level 90 I can still play BG with my friends who aren't level 90.</p><p>As sad as it is, I am the only one in my group of friends who is level 90, and now I get fat shafted out of our BG group. What is the point of even having a mentoring system if you can't use it for all aspects of gameplay? Just stupid.</p>

Qanyena
02-28-2010, 09:39 PM
<p>Just ringing in. I am about done with the game . Battlegrounds has made playing totally unenjoyable because theres never anyone to do anything and soloing can't be done because you can't zone. If you zone you hang and have to log out then trying to come back your characters aren't there or you of course get told the server is down. Further we were told the bg gear wasn't gonna replace raid gear and that it would be pvp only however this gear minus crit mit is being used in pve and hey what do you know SoE actually gave the battleground gear decent looks. The cloaks are stunning the effects on weapons amazing and we the paying customers who play the game to pve were ripped off with crap looks and stats. Thanks SoE for showing me your true intent with this xpak. Now I can say you're just like EA/Mythic and move on.</p>

Ambrin
02-28-2010, 09:48 PM
<p><cite>LefiloToE wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Make it so at level 90 I can still play BG with my friends who aren't level 90.</p><p>As sad as it is, I am the only one in my group of friends who is level 90, and now I get fat shafted out of our BG group. What is the point of even having a mentoring system if you can't use it for all aspects of gameplay? Just stupid.</p></blockquote><p>You can't mentor in a BG for the same reason mentored people are not allowed to engage in PvP - Because mentoring isn't perfect and a L90 in L90 gear mentored to L80 would rip apart L80's in L80 gear.</p>

Cabel
02-28-2010, 09:51 PM
<p><span ><p>Here are the bugs I've found so far:</p><p><span><p>1.  Battlefield of Ganak kill player quest does not update for me.</p><p>2.  Gears of Klak'Anon victory does not update for me.</p><p>3.  I cannot get more of the repeatable Battleground quests after I've completed them.</p><p>4.  Takes for- [Removed for Content]' -ever to get a battleground after what they did to the queues today (sunday).</p><p>5.  Takes for- [Removed for Content]' -ever to get the heck out of a match...  I'm still in one as I'm typing this LOL!!!!</p><p>When can we expect a fix to everything??</p></span></p></span></p>

Suta
02-28-2010, 09:57 PM
<p>Keep Battlegrounds on PvP servers only. This way you won't be seen as lying all the multiple times you claimed that PvP won't interfere with PvE</p>

Faith_heals
02-28-2010, 10:02 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just ringing in. I am about done with the game . Battlegrounds has made playing totally unenjoyable because theres never anyone to do anything and soloing can't be done because you can't zone. If you zone you hang and have to log out then trying to come back your characters aren't there or you of course get told the server is down. Further we were told the bg gear wasn't gonna replace raid gear and that it would be pvp only however this gear minus crit mit is being used in pve and hey what do you know SoE actually gave the battleground gear decent looks. The cloaks are stunning the effects on weapons amazing and we the paying customers who play the game to pve were ripped off with crap looks and stats. Thanks SoE for showing me your true intent with this xpak. Now I can say you're just like EA/Mythic and move on.</p></blockquote><p>I totally disagree I love it. I love the gear and its great haveing a way to earn this gear. You cant raid with it cause no crit mit. So far 18 old friends returned to the game and agree that BG was best thing to happen.</p><p>Fun times, great gear. Something to always do. I mean its great!</p>

goryf
02-28-2010, 10:05 PM
<p>Does the BG really have to be better than other games just because it is EQII and we players are spoiled? I say we make the whole BG fit into the multi server norath world by picking specific spots to zone in or out of BG.  With the program at the end of each match trying to find not only what server our toons go back to (I love the cross server action do not get me wrong) but once it has the server it also has to find where each toon was before.  a server wide zone in?? I wonder why it runs a bit slow (<< that was sarcasm). what if you had it to where near by each BG gear merchant you tied the zone spots? if not a door (i under stand you wouldn't be able to just pop in like a normal zone because of the cross server aspect) how about a NPC?? instead of doing the alt-z and queueing up from that you have to talk to a specific NPC.</p><p>script:</p><p>NPC: Ho, there adventurer. You have many a scar upon you. Get those from a sentient hand or beast?</p><p>PLAYER CHOICE:*from many a sentient and beast.</p><p>                          *None of your business.</p><p>NPC: Ah. So you think yourself powerful huh?</p><p>PLAYER CHOICE: *The world of norath has come to know my name.</p><p>NPC: Yes but many names are known through out the world. Are you saying you are better than them?</p><p>PLAYER CHOICE: *I am saying no such thing but i fear none who dwells in the world.</p><p>                           *I have no time for your word games.</p><p>NPC: I know of ways to make it known that you are indeed the best. Throughout Norath several grounds have been opened up for battles. mostly to amuse the locals, but can you think of any better way to become famous?</p><p>PLAYER CHOICE:*As a matter of fact i can think of a better way, good bye.</p><p>                          *Tell me more</p><p>NPC CHOICES TO PICK:</p><p>*There is a place where you may join up with a small army to fight for a certain Seafarer faction. they are in a never ending war over properties that no longer belong to them but pools of blood.  (Smuggler's Den)</p><p>*Another is where you and a fair sized force fight to amuze the iksar of Kunark Jungle over flags. (Battlefield of Ganak)</p><p>*last is presented by the gnomes of Klak ' Anon, for they have found a very mysterious relic of unknown power. They wish for you and a few other brave souls to step in the site and sieze the relic for them. (Gears of Klak'Anon)</p><p>after this script you them click on one of the three discriptions and are given the option to queue yourself, your group, or your raid. instead of the little window that pops up a book or feather or some kind of symbol will apear above the head of that NPC. when the symbol pops up you either click it to zone in or don't click it and your fine. maybe a little scrip too just so that way you know what BG you are zoning into. this will give the zoneing an easier time to work as everyone zones in and out from a specific spot. no more trying to place each player into completly different spots. this should not only relieve the stress on the servers but since it is only in certain zones the other zones should pick back up in speed too.</p><p>this was just a brain storm that me and some friends were BS'in about and i thought i would throw it out there for more input.</p><p>If i see you in BG i'll kill you. HAHAHA</p><p>oh, yeah, we were talking about this because of the new queue time both in BG and out it seems i average3-6 tokens in about 4-5 hours. at this rate i am quickly losing interest in BG and so are many others.  time cost just isn't worth it anymore.</p>

Adba
02-28-2010, 10:07 PM
<p>I went into BG with my Coercer on Everfrost server..  LOVE IT!! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /></p><p>However I hate the fact that I have to log on to a US server to even play Battlegrounds.. when will you enable them on EU servers? Splitpaw specifically...  or will you give me some free tokens of Character transfer so I can move my toons to a US server instead <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> *cackle*</p><p>WTB Battlegrounds on Splitpaw already!</p>

Armironhead
02-28-2010, 10:31 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>LefiloToE wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Make it so at level 90 I can still play BG with my friends who aren't level 90.</p><p>As sad as it is, I am the only one in my group of friends who is level 90, and now I get fat shafted out of our BG group. What is the point of even having a mentoring system if you can't use it for all aspects of gameplay? Just stupid.</p></blockquote><p>You can't mentor in a BG for the same reason mentored people are not allowed to engage in PvP - Because mentoring isn't perfect and a L90 in L90 gear mentored to L80 would rip apart L80's in L80 gear.</p></blockquote><p>Thats a silly reason.  A level 89 gets mentored down to 80 so why shouldnt a level 90 also be able to be mentored down to 80.</p>

Daggers
02-28-2010, 10:41 PM
<p>SoE needs to take these Battlegrounds OFF the world servers altogether.  Players should log out of EQ2 entirely and log IN to a BG server, specifically designed for BGs.  This back and forth zoning in and out is killing the world servers.  Uvsed to zone in 10 seconds, now this weekend Im lucky if its as soon as 2 minutes -- have even gotten stuck zoning just around the world (NOT into a BG) for over 10 minutes.  There is WAY too much bottlenecking on the servers.</p><p>Even Rothgar's idea of limiting the amount of BGs, though helping, isn't good enough.  Perhaps just making them NOT cross server would help significantly.  From the previous posts I've read here, there are a lot of people that don't like the idea of PvP servers going into BGs against PvE servers due to the massive pull they have with their PvP gear already.</p><p>Please Sony, do something about the bottlenecking.  This is one of the things that the PvE community asked for was that it did NOT affect PvE play.  Zone crashing, server lockups or crashes.  Those sound like impacting PvE play to me...</p>

aspit
02-28-2010, 10:52 PM
<p><cite>Level 90s will have level 90 gear with level 90 adornments and some of the lvel 90 gear lets you have 2 adornments. You will get destroyed soon if they let lvl 90s fight lower levels. Plus the battlegrounds gear is all level 90 pretty much so you dont have to face that in the sub 90 zones.</cite></p><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>LefiloToE wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Make it so at level 90 I can still play BG with my friends who aren't level 90.</p><p>As sad as it is, I am the only one in my group of friends who is level 90, and now I get fat shafted out of our BG group. What is the point of even having a mentoring system if you can't use it for all aspects of gameplay? Just stupid.</p></blockquote><p>You can't mentor in a BG for the same reason mentored people are not allowed to engage in PvP - Because mentoring isn't perfect and a L90 in L90 gear mentored to L80 would rip apart L80's in L80 gear.</p></blockquote><p>Thats a silly reason.  A level 89 gets mentored down to 80 so why shouldnt a level 90 also be able to be mentored down to 80.</p></blockquote>

BMouse
03-01-2010, 01:23 AM
<p>   I was looking at the Battlegrounds window.....and I'd love to be able to see how many people are Currently Q'd for anyone BG. I'm not interetsed in seeing names.....just the Numbers. I'd also love to see a timer count down for Each BG that was running, so I could see how long that BG had to go before it ended.</p><p> I have'nt had the chance to run any BG's yet. But I do look forward to being able to get into some and get more of a feel for them. I am sure I'll have some more feed back to give after I have run them.</p><p>  </p>

Demonwi
03-01-2010, 01:32 AM
<p>Aside from the bugs, it's great. Do more. Don't listen to the people whining. They just have never PVPed or want something to be upset about it. Once everyone has toughness it will level out. Give us some death matches, and the like (similar to the kill all opponents in Conan), etc. You did a great job. I expected to write a huge post on my site bashing the new BGs and on my show, as well, and I will only be praising the devs for once. Now if they could just get the [Removed for Content] Conjy pets fixed and give us something other than a tree and a cat. How about a Theerian Blademaven and a Gazer?!?!</p>

Sambone
03-01-2010, 01:45 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>SoE needs to take these Battlegrounds OFF the world servers altogether.  Players should log out of EQ2 entirely and log IN to a BG server, specifically designed for BGs. </p></blockquote><p>That's a pretty good idea i think.  Though i'd hate to have to log off and log into a different server...if things would run smoother that way i'd gladly do it to still play bg and not having BG and the regular content freezing up etc.  Unless there's a solution they find where this isn't needed sounds like a solid idea to me.</p><p>Also as someone else stated it would be nice to see some numbers of people queued for each instance of BG and some sort of timer to give you an idea if you should hold tight a sec or go afk a few minutes.  With no info at all it leaves people guessing and/or missing chances because who wants to sit and stare at your screen?</p>

Gorgamorph
03-01-2010, 09:17 AM
<p>Another post in regards to people getting the gear to their immunity some how and then just waiting out the fight.,,it's very frustrating</p>

ShinGoku
03-01-2010, 09:48 AM
<p>General feedback.. Here we go...</p><p>The whole battlegrounds thing is horrible and I'm never going to set foot in one again.</p><p>I'm struggling to understand how the pvp servers get merged due to lack of players and now we have a whole pvp centric function put into the game.</p><p>Don't get me wrong, I'm happy that some people like it, thats a good thing but the mechanics and lag kill the whole experience for me.  Plus getting ganked 10 secs after zoning in for the first time is really lame lol.</p>

screenid
03-01-2010, 10:27 AM
<p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />  I love Battlegrounds!!!</p><p>Don't listen to anyone crying FOUL!!!</p><p>It gives us PVEers the best of Both worlds.... </p><p>PVP when we want it...and when we are running around in our PVE world..no one can GANK us.</p><p>Giving me another way to earn some Awesome Gear -- THUMB UPS</p><p>Giving me the ability to interact/group/kill toons from Other Servers== THUMBS UP</p><p>Giving me something to do between "Quest, Harvesting, lonely days when Guild members are away" ==THUMBS UP</p><p>YES I AM A FAN BOY OF THE Battlegrounds!!!!!!!</p>

Mosha D'Khan
03-01-2010, 10:38 AM
<p>Problems i have seen so far:</p><p>1. teams are always one sided. there is never a time where (in the past 2 days) have not seen 1 team dominate.</p><p>2. the 6v6 is stupid and well i can never get a healer in the group. where the other team usally has 2, dont know how you managed to work it out like that but whatever.</p><p>3. the people who are for pvp servers are OP, yeah i said it OP. they come in with toughness on there T4 and other gear and already have damage reduction where a PvE person does not. either have their gear scale to PvE, or give PvE some toughness on there gear aswell.</p><p>4. spawn killing. does not matter the map, but every time i seem to pop no matter where it is there is always a group killing me and i cant do nothing. try giving and immunity thing like in PvP servers where you cant be attacked for a few secs so we can get buffed and not get killed in the first 1.2 sec</p><p>5.people going afk and just sitting there and getting tokens. have it to where the raid/group leaders can kick them and send them out of the BG so we can maybe get another person in who wants to play.</p><p>i would personly like to see different stuff, i hate how you zone in and it is the same thing over and over for a zone. let us set the up where you can do free for all, or team death match. i like the areas now but it gets old that the den is always towers, the ganak battleground is always capture the flag, and the other one is keep the relic. try randomizing it so that den could be keep the relic or put in some other things to do.</p>

Ahlana
03-01-2010, 01:11 PM
<p><cite>Mosha D'Khan wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><span>3. the people who are for pvp servers are OP, yeah i said it OP. they come in with toughness on there T4 and other gear and already have damage reduction where a PvE person does not. either have their gear scale to PvE, or give PvE some toughness on there gear aswell.</span></blockquote><p>Once again there is MasterCrafted PVP armorer that any armorer at level 79+ can make. It has the same toughness as a full set of T8 PVP Gear from the PVP Server. If you choose not to wear it please do not complain about toughness. It is a choice you can come in wearing PVE armor or PVP armor.. the choice is yours.</p><p>Now for some BG feedback. Overall I love them, they are quick and fun. However Gears can be exploited where you can get the gear up to your respawn area and then be untouchable. Was fighting today and was losing badly when my teammates told me to hold back and to not jump down that they had the gear. I turned around to see this to be true and my question to them was "How the $&*# did you get that up here?"</p><p>Well the other team with victory under its belt got cocky and got to close and a hook shot later their gear holder was up and killed. And we stood there to victory them 20points away when it happened and us over 500 points away... now ticking away to victory.. it was broken that is all I can say about that.</p>

Nayawk
03-01-2010, 03:55 PM
<p><cite>Ahlana wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Mosha D'Khan wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><span>3. the people who are for pvp servers are OP, yeah i said it OP. they come in with toughness on there T4 and other gear and already have damage reduction where a PvE person does not. either have their gear scale to PvE, or give PvE some toughness on there gear aswell.</span></blockquote><p>Once again there is MasterCrafted PVP armorer that any armorer at level 79+ can make. It has the same toughness as a full set of T8 PVP Gear from the PVP Server. If you choose not to wear it please do not complain about toughness. It is a choice you can come in wearing PVE armor or PVP armor.. the choice is yours.</p></blockquote><p>You make it sound like there are hoards of roaming lvl 90 crafters on every server just dying to get 40k kerra faction and make this stuff.</p><p>You keep saying this and people keep telling you that no one is making the MC on the pve servers. Certainly on mine you just can't find it yet, maybe in time it will come but as of right now (well sunday anyway).. no MC is not available to every pve server. </p>

Ambrin
03-01-2010, 04:27 PM
<p><cite>Nayawk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ahlana wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Mosha D'Khan wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><span>3. the people who are for pvp servers are OP, yeah i said it OP. they come in with toughness on there T4 and other gear and already have damage reduction where a PvE person does not. either have their gear scale to PvE, or give PvE some toughness on there gear aswell.</span></blockquote><p>Once again there is MasterCrafted PVP armorer that any armorer at level 79+ can make. It has the same toughness as a full set of T8 PVP Gear from the PVP Server. If you choose not to wear it please do not complain about toughness. It is a choice you can come in wearing PVE armor or PVP armor.. the choice is yours.</p></blockquote><p>You make it sound like there are hoards of roaming lvl 90 crafters on every server just dying to get 40k kerra faction and make this stuff.</p><p>You keep saying this and people keep telling you that no one is making the MC on the pve servers. Certainly on mine you just can't find it yet, maybe in time it will come but as of right now (well sunday anyway).. no MC is not available to every pve server. </p></blockquote><p>No, but there are hordes of L80 crafters with the faction needed from Island of Mara to make the L80 master crafted battleground gear. It may not be uber, but it is enough to get you through the door. Also, at level 90, the T8 PvP gear provides ~15% toughness. I honestly have a much harder time going up against avatar geared PvE'ers than I do going against players decked out in T8 PvP gear.</p>

Ahlana
03-01-2010, 04:30 PM
<p><cite>Nayawk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ahlana wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Mosha D'Khan wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><span>3. the people who are for pvp servers are OP, yeah i said it OP. they come in with toughness on there T4 and other gear and already have damage reduction where a PvE person does not. either have their gear scale to PvE, or give PvE some toughness on there gear aswell.</span></blockquote><p>Once again there is MasterCrafted PVP armorer that any armorer at level 79+ can make. It has the same toughness as a full set of T8 PVP Gear from the PVP Server. If you choose not to wear it please do not complain about toughness. It is a choice you can come in wearing PVE armor or PVP armor.. the choice is yours.</p></blockquote><p>You make it sound like there are hoards of roaming lvl 90 crafters on every server just dying to get 40k kerra faction and make this stuff.</p><p>You keep saying this and people keep telling you that no one is making the MC on the pve servers. Certainly on mine you just can't find it yet, maybe in time it will come but as of right now (well sunday anyway).. no MC is not available to every pve server. </p></blockquote><p>Ummmm do you read my other posts? There is a T8 set that has the SAME TOUGHNESS as the T8 PVP Armor that Naggy has... it does NOT REQUIRE KERRA FACTION, the T9 MC BG Armor does.</p><p>You go to Mara .. you goto the Farseas vender .. you buy the recipe for ONE FARSEAS TOKEN. It has NO FACTION REQUIREMENT, ZIP, ZERO, NONE... Just one farseas Token that any level 80+ TSer can get by just talking to the Farseas person at the spires in Sundered Frontier and Going into Paineel.</p><p>"But how do you knows this Ahlana"? Well you see.. I am a level 90 Armorer and the day the xpac went live I went to Mara and bought the recipe off the merchant there and I have done none of the FarSeas faction quests.. I thought it was not going to let me buy it but low and behold... no faction needed.. I have since sold several sets of this stuff on Nagafen, a server that needs it less than other servers...</p><p>So if you can not find BG armor than it is not because you are on PVE its because your armorers are unware that they can make it or simply just do not want to</p><p>Also the MC T8 BG Armor Uses T8 Rares /gasp like Incarnadine... (I believe the tailor version of leather is messed up atm but it has been /bugged)</p><p>EDIT: Also it doesn't matter if their are hordes of T9 Crafters or not as I stated the T8 stuff is made by a level 79 Armorer, not 90... The link in this very thread shows that there is a T8 and T9 set... soooo.... Once again the choice is yours to come in PVP or PVE Gear</p>

Armawk
03-01-2010, 04:46 PM
<p><cite>Ahlana wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ummmm do you read my other posts? There is a T8 set that has the SAME TOUGHNESS as the T8 PVP Armor that Naggy has... it does NOT REQUIRE KERRA FACTION, the T9 MC BG Armor does.</p></blockquote><p>Im reading that this stuff has toughness but very poor stats and effects so for  most people represents an overall DOWNGRADE from things like shard armour.. i.e. you can stay alive longer but cant do worthwhile dps while staying alive.</p><p>Thats not going to help is it, so its the real BG armour or nothing.</p>

Neskonlith
03-01-2010, 04:58 PM
<p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Don't make the mistake of fixating <em>only</em> upon gear as the winning factor (like it currently is for pve)!  </span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">AA specs for pvp make a massive difference for many classes - and effective pvp AA choices are often different than what would be chosen for pve.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Good pvp AA + decent Teamwork will always trump gear if the gear gap is relatively close.</span></p>

Ahlana
03-01-2010, 05:12 PM
<p><cite>shaunfletcher wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ahlana wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ummmm do you read my other posts? There is a T8 set that has the SAME TOUGHNESS as the T8 PVP Armor that Naggy has... it does NOT REQUIRE KERRA FACTION, the T9 MC BG Armor does.</p></blockquote><p>Im reading that this stuff has toughness but very poor stats and effects so for  most people represents an overall DOWNGRADE from things like shard armour.. i.e. you can stay alive longer but cant do worthwhile dps while staying alive.</p><p>Thats not going to help is it, so its the real BG armour or nothing.</p></blockquote><p>My Assassin wears a full set of the T8 MC PVP gear and it does him just fine. Turns out I couldn't DPS at all while dead :p so staying alive  longer is negating the side affects of wearing "lesser" gear /shrug</p><p>My wife only has 1 piece of PVP armor and 1 Piece of PVP Jewelry on ONE of her 3 T8+ Healers and does just fine in BG. The PVP gear with toughness is there to get... it is not an autowin by any means.. but gear alone is not an autowin either /shrug</p>