Thank you for the Dirge mythical nerf [Archive]

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Killque

10-12-2009, 02:18 AM

You start fighting.(125532432<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" />[Mon Oct 12 00:12:08 2009] YOUR Scream of Death hits Shadowknight for 457 slashing damage.(125532432<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" />[Mon Oct 12 00:12:08 2009] The shadows dissapate from Killque.(125532432<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" />[Mon Oct 12 00:12:08 2009] Shadowknight's Caress Feedback hits YOU for 35 disease damage.(125532432<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" />[Mon Oct 12 00:12:08 2009] You writhe in agony.(125532432<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" />[Mon Oct 12 00:12:08 2009] Shadowknight's Barbed Guard hits YOU for 34 piercing damage.(1255324329)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:09 2009] You must be sneaking to use this ability.(1255324329)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:09 2009] Shadowknight's Doom Judgement hits YOU for 474 slashing damage.(1255324329)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:09 2009] Shadowknight's Grim Strike hits YOU for 532 disease damage.(1255324329)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:09 2009] Shadowknight's Grim Strike critically heals Shadowknight for 378 hit points.(1255324329)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:09 2009] Shadowknight is struck with an unholy weapon!(1255324329)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:09 2009] Shadowknight's Doom Judgement dispels Riana's Relentless Tune from YOU.(1255324329)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:09 2009] Riana's Relentless Tune has been removed from you.(1255324329)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:09 2009] An augmentation song ends.(1255324329)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:09 2009] Shadowknight's Doom Judgement relieves Rhythm Blade from YOU.(1255324329)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:09 2009] Rhythm Blade has been removed from you.(1255324329)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:09 2009] You must be sneaking to use this ability.(1255324329)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:09 2009] You stop fighting.(1255324329)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:09 2009] You start fighting.(1255324329)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:09 2009] YOUR Misfortune's Kiss hits Shadowknight for 499 slashing damage.(1255324329)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:09 2009] YOU try to burn Shadowknight with Severe Mistarget, but Shadowknight resists.(1255324329)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:09 2009] Shadowknight's Caress Feedback hits YOU for 35 disease damage.(1255324329)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:09 2009] You writhe in agony.(1255324329)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:09 2009] Shadowknight's Barbed Guard hits YOU for 34 piercing damage.(1255324330)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:10 2009] Shadowknight tries to disease YOU with Tap Veins, but YOU resist.(1255324331)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:11 2009] YOU try to disease Shadowknight with Darksong Blade, but Shadowknight parries.(1255324331)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:11 2009] Shadowknight's Mana Sieve hits YOU for 71 disease damage.(1255324331)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:11 2009] Shadowknight's Mana Sieve critically refreshes Shadowknight for 46 mana points.(1255324331)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:11 2009] This spell or ability is no longer available.(1255324331)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:11 2009] YOUR Scream of Death hits Shadowknight for 52 disease damage.(1255324331)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:11 2009] YOU try to slash Shadowknight, but miss.(1255324331)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:11 2009] YOU double attack Shadowknight for 143 slashing damage.(1255324331)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:11 2009] Shadowknight tries to disease YOU with Caress Feedback, but YOU resist.(1255324331)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:11 2009] Shadowknight's Barbed Guard hits YOU for 34 piercing damage.(1255324331)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:11 2009] YOU try to slash Shadowknight, but miss.(1255324331)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:11 2009] YOU double attack Shadowknight for 92 slashing damage.(1255324331)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:11 2009] Shadowknight tries to disease YOU with Caress Feedback, but YOU resist.(1255324331)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:11 2009] Shadowknight's Barbed Guard hits YOU for 34 piercing damage.(1255324331)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:11 2009] YOUR Poison hits Shadowknight for 108 poison damage.(1255324332)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:12 2009] This spell or ability is no longer available.(1255324332)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:12 2009] Shadowknight tries to pierce YOU with Soulrend, but YOU parry.(1255324332)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:12 2009] YOUR Scream hits Shadowknight for 475 disease damage.(1255324332)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:12 2009] YOUR Howl of Death hits Shadowknight for 409 disease damage.(1255324332)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:12 2009] YOUR Howl of Death critically heals YOU for 603 hit points.(1255324332)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:12 2009] You say to the group, "Shadowknight or Shadowknight 's target is being feared."(1255324333)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:13 2009] Shadowknight's Devour Vitae hits YOU for 770 disease damage.(1255324333)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:13 2009] Shadowknight's Reaver's Mania heals Shadowknight for 210 hit points.(1255324333)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:13 2009] Shadows flow through your blood.(1255324333)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:13 2009] Shadowknight's Devour Vitae critically heals Shadowknight for 970 hit points.(1255324333)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:13 2009] Shadows flow through Shadowknight's blood.(1255324334)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:14 2009] Shadowknight's Dreadful Wrath hits YOU for 1051 disease damage.(1255324334)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:14 2009] Shadowknight's Reaver's Mania heals Shadowknight for 210 hit points.(1255324334)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:14 2009] You are smashed with a dreadful wrath.(1255324334)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:14 2009] YOUR Scream of Death hits Shadowknight for 52 disease damage.(1255324335)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:15 2009] Shadowknight tries to smite YOU with Vampiric Energy, but YOU resist.(1255324335)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:15 2009] Shadowknight's Reaver's Mania heals Shadowknight for 210 hit points.(1255324335)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:15 2009] Shadowknight's Shadow Coil hits YOU for 551 disease damage.(1255324335)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:15 2009] You lose consciousness!(1255324335)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:15 2009] You are wrapped in a shadow coil.(1255324335)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:15 2009] You stop fighting.(1255324335)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:15 2009] Shadowknight's Mana Sieve critically refreshes Shadowknight for 46 mana points.(1255324335)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:15 2009] Shadowknight's Mana Sieve hits YOU for 93 disease damage.(1255324335)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:15 2009] YOUR Poison hits Shadowknight for 108 poison damage.(1255324335)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:15 2009] The coil unwinds from you.(1255324335)[Mon Oct 12 00:12:15 2009] Shadowknight has killed you.

Ashdaren

10-12-2009, 07:11 AM

In this log the SK did like 3k dmg and no melee dmg, everyone can have bad luck with auto attack.I totally agree though that the mythical effect of dirge was really cool for them to pvp, it is not like dirge have that huge dps to start with...Maybe they stood an other position regarding this question, simply comparing troubadour and dirge.. not dirge vs assassin for exemple....

Stuckx

10-12-2009, 07:51 AM

Dirges needed their myth nerfed,and if you dont think so..well,you're either a whiny dirge or a [Removed for Content].I'm sorry,but a dirge walking up to someone,turning auto attack on,and instant killing them was extremely OP.

MokiCh

10-12-2009, 08:20 AM

Cry more? I've hit some plate tanks for about as much in pvp, and I'm a real DPS class, not utility. You don't hear me complaining though.

Batez

10-12-2009, 08:43 AM

So wait, you attacked a class that firstly tanks melee damage as a main point of the class (Plate tank) and you also attacked a class that has very high Des / Pos resist whereas your damage is primarily Des/ Pos?Yea I see your point.

Timjan

10-12-2009, 09:20 AM

The dirge mythical was nerfed because healers died to it and cried about it. Before the nerf, dirges was one of the few classes that could give me a good fight and kill me. Now they dont stand a chance. As it is now, there's realy no class that can kill a well geared healer 1v1.And it's not like other classes don't have op mythicals in pvp. Iquisitor clicky cure/heal, warden power proc, wizzard duble ice comet and brusier parry/heal to mention some. If we nerf one class in pvp,why not all?People realy should stop crying and call for nerfs every time they die./Timjan 80 Inquisitor

Darkor

10-12-2009, 09:31 AM

<cite>Timjan wrote:</cite><blockquote>The dirge mythical was nerfed because healers died to it and cried about it. Before the nerf, dirges was one of the few classes that could give me a good fight and kill me. Now they dont stand a chance. As it is now, there's realy no class that can kill a well geared healer 1v1.And it's not like other classes don't have op mythicals in pvp. Iquisitor clicky cure/heal, warden power proc, wizzard duble ice comet and brusier parry/heal to mention some. If we nerf one class in pvp,why not all?Ppl realy should stop cry every time they die and call for nerfs/Timjan 80 Inquisitor</blockquote>Im jealous of all those cool mythicals. My brigand mythical sucks, so does the swashy mythical. We couldnt get something usefull like the flurry one <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />But you are right, a good equipped healer, especially a plate one is really really hard nowdays.

Faenril

10-12-2009, 09:38 AM

<blockquote>As it is now, there's realy no class that can kill a well geared healer 1v1.</blockquote>To be fair, if target does not want to stick around most healer classes won't kill anyone solo.

Timjan

10-12-2009, 09:48 AM

Faenril

10-12-2009, 09:55 AM

<cite>Timjan wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Naemesis@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote>As it is now, there's realy no class that can kill a well geared healer 1v1.</blockquote>To be fair, if target does not want to stick around most healer classes won't kill anyone solo.</blockquote>True, it happends to me all the time and is realy annoying. But that's not the point, I said "As it is now, there's realy no class that can kill a well geared healer 1v1." And that's quite boring</blockquote>For the healer it probably is. I guess as a healer the fun is in surviving as long as you can in a 1 vs N scenario <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Guld_Ulrish

10-12-2009, 11:06 AM

<cite>Darkor@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Im jealous of all those cool mythicals. My brigand mythical sucks, so does the swashy mythical. We couldnt get something usefull like the flurry one <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" />But you are right, a good equipped healer, especially a plate one is really really hard nowdays.</blockquote>Hehe we can change if you want, the necro one is total waste in pvp.

Darkor

10-12-2009, 11:45 AM

<cite>Guld_Ulrish wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Darkor@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Im jealous of all those cool mythicals. My brigand mythical sucks, so does the swashy mythical. We couldnt get something usefull like the flurry one <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" />But you are right, a good equipped healer, especially a plate one is really really hard nowdays.</blockquote>Hehe we can change if you want, the necro one is total waste in pvp.</blockquote>Yeah i can feel with you. The epic/mythical was the final reason for my fury to change to warde. That thing is so frigging crap, i couldnt stand being a fury for 1 more day.

Enoe

10-12-2009, 12:27 PM

tbh when i did a lot solo pvp on guardian i already though dirges as weakest class in pvp - they were no match when solo - some of the fights with them u could see in my old videos. Dirge myth was cool then if it gave them some kind of edge (proc= luck but still) Now again they will be easy meat for almost every class.Edit: every class

Enoe

10-12-2009, 12:31 PM

<cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Dirges needed their myth nerfed,and if you dont think so..well,you're either a whiny dirge or a [Removed for Content].I'm sorry,but a dirge walking up to someone,turning auto attack on,and instant killing them was extremely OP.</blockquote>it did happened to all melee classes in many cases. I even 1 shot (1 sec or less fight) ppl on guardian. So whats the story? and ive seen trubs outparsing my dps spec sk so u should be last to cry about dps.

Sprin

10-12-2009, 01:47 PM

<cite>Naemesis@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote>As it is now, there's realy no class that can kill a well geared healer 1v1.</blockquote>To be fair, if target does not want to stick around most healer classes won't kill anyone solo.</blockquote>That's considered a win in my book.. When 3 or 4 fools are smakin on ya and they cant beat you, and then you start taking their health down slowly, they run like sissies... = pvp win in my book...its even better when they burn all their temps and get you into the orange in the first few seconds, only for you to pop back in the green and stay there after all their temps are down and they have nothing left for another 2+ minutes...there are very few classes that can stop runners from running if they start to lose.. and kill them before they get away.... so i dont even bother trying... i dont chase them, thats a win in my book... so I am happy...now if i was a high dps toon with a root and a dozen snares and they got away, thats a lose for me, since i failed at life and failed at keeping them close enough for me to kill after they started to lose.. but for a Templar at least, DPS isnt high enough and we have no roots to keep classes close enough to kill...Its even better when they run away after failing at life, trying to kill you, only to come back and try again and fail again and run away... thats far more ammusing to me then actually killing them.

patrck17

10-12-2009, 02:29 PM

I can understand the OP's frustration with the mythical nerf. There is no doubt that the proc was broken the way it worked in pvp, but would have been nice for them to have modified it to do a more reasonable amount of damage, rather than taking it right out. I expect it was just faster to hit it hard with the nerf bat. I know a lot of dirges which had talked a lot of trash banking on that mythical proc who are now kind of screwed. May as well just roll a SK and enjoy the rest of the explansion trashing everything short of full groups.

Sprin

10-12-2009, 02:35 PM

<cite>patrck17 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I can understand the OP's frustration with the mythical nerf. There is no doubt that the proc was broken the way it worked in pvp, but would have been nice for them to have modified it to do a more reasonable amount of damage, rather than taking it right out. I expect it was just faster to hit it hard with the nerf bat. I know a lot of dirges which had talked a lot of trash banking on that mythical proc who are now kind of screwed. May as well just roll a SK and enjoy the rest of the explansion trashing everything including full groups.</blockquote>fixed for ya

jam3

10-12-2009, 03:07 PM

(1255236252)[Sat Oct 10 21:44:12 2009] YOUR Rune of Warding absorbs 566 points of damage from being done to YOURSELF.(1255236252)[Sat Oct 10 21:44:12 2009] Rocknroll hits YOU for 634 slashing damage.(1255236252)[Sat Oct 10 21:44:12 2009] Rocknroll's Intoxicating Notes hits YOU for 314 poison damage.(1255236252)[Sat Oct 10 21:44:12 2009] Rocknroll double attacks YOU for 1201 slashing damage.(1255236252)[Sat Oct 10 21:44:12 2009] Rocknroll hits YOU for 988 piercing damage.(1255236252)[Sat Oct 10 21:44:12 2009] Rocknroll tries to pierce YOU, but their double attack misses.so if i didnt have my ward item or if that second double attack didnt miss you can likely expect a 4k auto attack.YEAH IT REALL GOT NERFED MAN

Guld_Ulrish

10-12-2009, 03:20 PM

Same amount as all other scouts.

jam3

10-12-2009, 03:32 PM

thats ok i still killed him with no pet lolzz

Killque

10-12-2009, 03:51 PM

So here I am face to face with a Shadowknight, I have two choices.<ol><li>Fight</li><li>Run</li></ol>Unfortunatly for me, there is no win scenario. If I fight, my auto attack and combat arts will likely do less damage to him than his damage shield alone will do to me. I will die, and it will be fast. No need for Death March, no meed for any temps or special parry abilities. No I am not crying I am telling it like it is.If I run, well then I get the "coward" tag. I dont want to run, but I dont want to be a free update either. It is a huge disapointment for me.In all honesty, I shouldn't bother to attack tanks at all. Auto attack aside, combat arts are severly reduced and do practically no damage. Up against someone with thousands more hit points you probably can see the problem. Snare doesnt seem to do anything these days, mine lasts like 15 seconds and has the crappiest casting range.There really is no fix. I am not suggesting one. This fight just frustrated me to no end. The SK couldnt auto attack me because I was trying to stay away from him. I was bow attacking and using ranged attacks the entire fight untill I was able to stun him and run in for a few quick attacks. LOL a lot of good that did. Even his ranged DPS far surpasses mine.

Fin

10-12-2009, 03:58 PM

Notsovileprie

10-12-2009, 04:04 PM

<cite>Aeeron@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>thats ok i still killed him with no pet lolzz</blockquote>Just FYI he has almost no crit mit and you do, Not that hard <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Enoe

10-12-2009, 08:55 PM

<cite>Finks@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Killque wrote:</cite><blockquote>So here I am face to face with a Shadowknight, I have two choices.<ol><li>Fight</li><li>Run</li></ol>Unfortunatly for me, there is no win scenario.</blockquote> Welcome to the club? Grey sks can kill my lvl 80 warlock.</blockquote>u were naked or something? Lock should own sk hands down.

Enoe

10-12-2009, 08:57 PM

<cite>Killque wrote:</cite><blockquote>So here I am face to face with a Shadowknight, I have two choices.<ol><li>Fight</li><li>Run</li></ol>Unfortunatly for me, there is no win scenario. If I fight, my auto attack and combat arts will likely do less damage to him than his damage shield alone will do to me. I will die, and it will be fast. No need for Death March, no meed for any temps or special parry abilities. No I am not crying I am telling it like it is.If I run, well then I get the "coward" tag. I dont want to run, but I dont want to be a free update either. It is a huge disapointment for me.In all honesty, I shouldn't bother to attack tanks at all. Auto attack aside, combat arts are severly reduced and do practically no damage. Up against someone with thousands more hit points you probably can see the problem. Snare doesnt seem to do anything these days, mine lasts like 15 seconds and has the crappiest casting range.There really is no fix. I am not suggesting one. This fight just frustrated me to no end. The SK couldnt auto attack me because I was trying to stay away from him. I was bow attacking and using ranged attacks the entire fight untill I was able to stun him and run in for a few quick attacks. LOL a lot of good that did. Even his ranged DPS far surpasses mine.</blockquote>with ur myth u had same chances - and tbh trust me stunt on sk works 0.5 s max (unless he is noob) there is no good strat for dirge to fight sk tbh -on ranged sk has more dps and using spells he heals. On close range same spells + ca's + auto. Dirge doesnt have enoug cc to be danger on this one and potions/DM/Aura of crusader + signets....I feel for you man, not that i play sk but u will have less dps then any dps/tank/support class and less hps then healer so anyway whoever you will fight on same lvl same gear you will be doomed. IMO this nerf was not necessary at all at least not this huge nerf.

Fin

10-13-2009, 01:12 AM

<cite>Enoe wrote:</cite><blockquote>u were naked or something? Lock should own sk hands down.</blockquote> I used to smoke all the big talking sks on venekor with that lock. They used to have duels and the sks would win for like an hour straight and Id go F em up with the lock.I wound up in a fight out in fens while grinding some fishy dude status so I could get a provy recipe and this green sk comes and nearly ganks me. Was hilarious. I was looking for all my clickies and pots and none of em were hotbarred cause he is my harvest bot/provvy. Phins gear aint bad. I raided with him in fp for a few months in rok before kronyx was formed. Seleri gankd phin when he was grey but I suspect he was rockin some god spells. Im not clever enough to read spell icons.

MokiCh

10-13-2009, 05:54 AM

YasikoSetsu

10-13-2009, 10:54 AM

<cite>Killque wrote:</cite><blockquote>So here I am face to face with a Shadowknight, I have two choices.<ol><li>Fight</li><li>Run</li></ol>Unfortunatly for me, there is no win scenario. If I fight, my auto attack and combat arts will likely do less damage to him than his damage shield alone will do to me. I will die, and it will be fast. No need for Death March, no meed for any temps or special parry abilities. No I am not crying I am telling it like it is.If I run, well then I get the "coward" tag. I dont want to run, but I dont want to be a free update either. It is a huge disapointment for me.In all honesty, I shouldn't bother to attack tanks at all. Auto attack aside, combat arts are severly reduced and do practically no damage. Up against someone with thousands more hit points you probably can see the problem. Snare doesnt seem to do anything these days, mine lasts like 15 seconds and has the crappiest casting range.There really is no fix. I am not suggesting one. This fight just frustrated me to no end. The SK couldnt auto attack me because I was trying to stay away from him. I was bow attacking and using ranged attacks the entire fight untill I was able to stun him and run in for a few quick attacks. LOL a lot of good that did. Even his ranged DPS far surpasses mine.</blockquote>I didn't see Toxic backlash, or the noxious ward from your Dirge AA tree go off once. (I'm assuming you have AA in the ward, as it's a pretty awesome choice, for pvp in general. So many classes use noxious damage)If you're gonna bother even trying to go face to face with a SK, and try to auto attack like you did, at least have the right buffs running.. =/Toxic backlash pieces are incredibly easy to get, assuming you don't have one.But honestly... If a bard can't kill a SK at ranged, they sure arent going to kill one within auto attack range - thats been my experience so far. Crusaders hit like monsters, so your best bet is to just kite 'em with as much noxious defensive stuff on as possible, use heal signets/pots, and cure their snare when it lands. Use rocks/trees. xDNo point in being frustrated about losing a fight with a SK. They pretty much demolish everyone, if you haven't noticed.

Killque

10-13-2009, 07:51 PM

While fighting crusaiders is frustrating, it is even more frustrating when you go back to a parse to look what happened and learn from it and you see your auto attack did 90 dmg. Seriously, 90.... 90!This kind of mitigated damage against a class that dps's like a bull in a china shop with close to 20k hps.It just boggles my mind.

Paikis

10-14-2009, 02:39 AM

Why is auto-attack only now a problem? Other classes have been getting those same levels of auto-attack for how long now? This is IMO the way it should be. Damage should be dealth with spells and CAs, not auto-attack. And like Yasikos said, where was your noxious reprieve potion, where was your Noxious ward buff, where was your Toxic Backlash breastplate? I don't see a shifting band proc there either.Welcome back to the land of the Normal. I hope you enjoyed your holiday to the village of Stupid Overpowered.

Stuckx

10-14-2009, 06:10 AM

<cite>Enoe wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Dirges needed their myth nerfed,and if you dont think so..well,you're either a whiny dirge or a [Removed for Content].I'm sorry,but a dirge walking up to someone,turning auto attack on,and instant killing them was extremely OP.</blockquote>and ive seen trubs outparsing my dps spec sk so u should be last to cry about dps.</blockquote>Troub out DPSing an SK...your point is? Sk's are meant to tank,not DPS...troubs are meant to DPS(yes..I said it..we are a DPS class),debuff the mob,and buff our raid.

MokiCh

10-14-2009, 07:43 AM

I lold.Troubs should no more be dps than my Coercer. Bards and Enchanters should be utility first, and dps second. Not buffbots that we gave mad damage to in order to give them something to do during raids.

Killque

10-14-2009, 11:03 AM

<cite>Paikis wrote:</cite><blockquote>Why is auto-attack only now a problem? Other classes have been getting those same levels of auto-attack for how long now? This is IMO the way it should be. Damage should be dealth with spells and CAs, not auto-attack. And like Yasikos said, where was your noxious reprieve potion, where was your Noxious ward buff, where was your Toxic Backlash breastplate? I don't see a shifting band proc there either.Welcome back to the land of the Normal. I hope you enjoyed your holiday to the village of Stupid Overpowered.</blockquote>These auto attacks were a problem before as well. Nothing has change the fact that this is not still a problem.

YasikoSetsu

10-14-2009, 04:07 PM

<cite>MokiChan wrote:</cite><blockquote>I lold.Troubs should no more be dps than my Coercer. Bards and Enchanters should be utility first, and dps second. Not buffbots that we gave mad damage to in order to give them something to do during raids.</blockquote>We are utility first. But here's the thing...Utility doesn't stop you from DPS'ing.I don't understand what people dont get about that. You think just cause a troub is parsing 8k, that he isn't doing his job? It takes a total of like no seconds to throw a jcap now and then, and put perfection up. Thats our only 'utility' that we have to actively worry about, and it doesnt slow our dps down a BIT. It actually increases it, in the case of perfection, and debuffs.Also, I don't know what you were trying to imply about coercers, but they parse like effing monsters. Our guild coercer consistenly pulls 8-15k parses, putting him in the top 5 almost every fight. His 'utility' obviously doesnt slow him down too much, as his group never drops below 90% power, and I see tashiana/obliterated on the mob every fight (assuming tash is up.)If you're not DPS'ing on a utility class, you're failing at it, and should re-roll. End of story.

Sprin

10-14-2009, 04:13 PM

<cite>YasikoSetsuna wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>MokiChan wrote:</cite><blockquote>I lold.Troubs should no more be dps than my Coercer. Bards and Enchanters should be utility first, and dps second. Not buffbots that we gave mad damage to in order to give them something to do during raids.</blockquote>We are utility first. But here's the thing...Utility doesn't stop you from DPS'ing.I don't understand what people dont get about that. You think just cause a troub is parsing 8k, that he isn't doing his job? It takes a total of like no seconds to throw a jcap now and then, and put perfection up. Thats our only 'utility' that we have to actively worry about, and it doesnt slow our dps down a BIT. It actually increases it, in the case of perfection, and debuffs.Also, I don't know what you were trying to imply about coercers, but they parse like effing monsters. Our guild coercer consistenly pulls 8-15k parses, putting him in the top 5 almost every fight. His 'utility' obviously doesnt slow him down too much, as his group never drops below 90% power, and I see tashiana/obliterated on the mob every fight (assuming tash is up.)If you're not DPS'ing on a utility class, you're failing at it, and should re-roll. End of story.</blockquote>Dont forget that part of a coercers utility is hate feed, so doing damage IS utility for a coercer... and spamming attacks for Illys is the same, their power proc on their mythical procs off them doing attacks, so they HAVE to spam attacks (AKA DPS) to provide utility...Wonderous things happen when you actually learn a bit about different classes instead of just blindly calling for nerfs of said classes...

Paikis

10-15-2009, 02:11 AM

I didn't see any nerf calls in Yasikos post. What are you talking about?

Fin

10-15-2009, 03:02 AM

Utilitys job is to bring as much dps to the raid as possible. By buffing other classes and generating as much dps as their gear and class allow. Worldwide guilds troubs pull huge zw numbers. If you arent there yet then there is room to improve. Actually there is always room to improve.

Faenril

10-15-2009, 04:44 AM

They gave utilities dps because utility in eq2 is mostly a passive task (except throwing a jcap here and there maybe), and most ppl with a brain don't want to play a buff bot. Also many abilities of said 'utility' classes were made useless in pve (reflects, power drains, mobs immune to CC...) so they gave dps as a sort of compensation.

Fin

10-15-2009, 06:26 AM

Wut? I can root epics still! Where would a raid be without that?!?! Its prosauce to daze an epic before a big stun/stifle ae.

Enoe

10-15-2009, 07:27 AM

someone didnt uderstand my post. I dont mind trub being able to put big dps numbers, just imo crying for fellow bard class to nerf really badly is not right. All arguments trubs put in this topic why they should and have big dps will work for dirges as well. Not mention that trub cc in pvp are much better.So 1 bard was nerfed from Hero to zero and other bard is dancing on it and saying bards classes are ok with big dps and utility/cc in one. Btw where is a dirge dps now? 1/2 of trub or less?

YasikoSetsu

10-15-2009, 10:32 AM

<cite>Enoe wrote:</cite><blockquote>someone didnt uderstand my post. I dont mind trub being able to put big dps numbers, just imo crying for fellow bard class to nerf really badly is not right. All arguments trubs put in this topic why they should and have big dps will work for dirges as well. Not mention that trub cc in pvp are much better.So 1 bard was nerfed from Hero to zero and other bard is dancing on it and saying bards classes are ok with big dps and utility/cc in one. Btw where is a dirge dps now? 1/2 of trub or less?</blockquote>Good dirges still own plenty of face. I know this not only from experience fighting plenty of them after the nerf, and from a video posted on that other site they don't like to mention here for whatever reason.Yeah, his reputation blows, but you can watch the video and see that dirges arent the "supa-[Removed for Content]" that everyone thinks they are, just because they lost the ability to auto for 5k+ (counting both weapons, for those of you that plan on quoting this and arguing with me) a round.Maybe the weapon nerf should have been handled differently, yeah. But the way it was before was just plain unacceptable. The nerf was coming sooner or later, anyone with half a brain could see that - no matter what us troubs said needed to be done (this is directed at the bolded/red part of the quote.)

Tormax

10-15-2009, 11:10 AM

<cite>Aeeron@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>(1255236252)[Sat Oct 10 21:44:12 2009] YOUR Rune of Warding absorbs 566 points of damage from being done to YOURSELF.(1255236252)[Sat Oct 10 21:44:12 2009] Rocknroll hits YOU for 634 slashing damage.(1255236252)[Sat Oct 10 21:44:12 2009] Rocknroll's Intoxicating Notes hits YOU for 314 poison damage.(1255236252)[Sat Oct 10 21:44:12 2009] Rocknroll double attacks YOU for 1201 slashing damage.(1255236252)[Sat Oct 10 21:44:12 2009] Rocknroll hits YOU for 988 piercing damage.(1255236252)[Sat Oct 10 21:44:12 2009] Rocknroll tries to pierce YOU, but their double attack misses.so if i didnt have my ward item or if that second double attack didnt miss you can likely expect a 4k auto attack.YEAH IT REALL GOT NERFED MAN</blockquote>Well considering the 988 piercing and DA that missed, I would say that has nothing to do with the Mythical, but what do I know...

Tormax

10-15-2009, 11:13 AM

YasikoSetsu

10-15-2009, 11:25 AM

<cite>Havalina@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aeeron@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>(1255236252)[Sat Oct 10 21:44:12 2009] YOUR Rune of Warding absorbs 566 points of damage from being done to YOURSELF.(1255236252)[Sat Oct 10 21:44:12 2009] Rocknroll hits YOU for 634 slashing damage.(1255236252)[Sat Oct 10 21:44:12 2009] Rocknroll's Intoxicating Notes hits YOU for 314 poison damage.(1255236252)[Sat Oct 10 21:44:12 2009] Rocknroll double attacks YOU for 1201 slashing damage.(1255236252)[Sat Oct 10 21:44:12 2009] Rocknroll hits YOU for 988 piercing damage.(1255236252)[Sat Oct 10 21:44:12 2009] Rocknroll tries to pierce YOU, but their double attack misses.so if i didnt have my ward item or if that second double attack didnt miss you can likely expect a 4k auto attack.YEAH IT REALL GOT NERFED MAN</blockquote>Well considering the 988 piercing and DA that missed, I would say that has nothing to do with the Mythical, but what do I know...</blockquote>Not enough to bother posting here, apparently? xDPro tip: Dirge mythical proc affected the off-hand weapon too, which in this case, was of the piercing variety.His point was that even without the proc, dirges (scouts in general) can pull off 4k auto's. When he said 'It' he meant dirge auto attacks in general, not the mythical its self.

Killque

10-15-2009, 11:47 AM

<cite>YasikoSetsuna wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Havalina@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aeeron@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>(1255236252)[Sat Oct 10 21:44:12 2009] YOUR Rune of Warding absorbs 566 points of damage from being done to YOURSELF.(1255236252)[Sat Oct 10 21:44:12 2009] Rocknroll hits YOU for 634 slashing damage.(1255236252)[Sat Oct 10 21:44:12 2009] Rocknroll's Intoxicating Notes hits YOU for 314 poison damage.(1255236252)[Sat Oct 10 21:44:12 2009] Rocknroll double attacks YOU for 1201 slashing damage.(1255236252)[Sat Oct 10 21:44:12 2009] Rocknroll hits YOU for 988 piercing damage.(1255236252)[Sat Oct 10 21:44:12 2009] Rocknroll tries to pierce YOU, but their double attack misses.so if i didnt have my ward item or if that second double attack didnt miss you can likely expect a 4k auto attack.YEAH IT REALL GOT NERFED MAN</blockquote>Well considering the 988 piercing and DA that missed, I would say that has nothing to do with the Mythical, but what do I know...</blockquote>Not enough to bother posting here, apparently? xDPro tip: Dirge mythical proc affected the off-hand weapon too, which in this case, was of the piercing variety.His point was that even without the proc, dirges (scouts in general) can pull off 4k auto's. When he said 'It' he meant dirge auto attacks in general, not the mythical its self.</blockquote>And the point of this thread is with main hand attack, and off hand attack, even if they both double attack I would have been lucky to break 600dmg total from all 4 attacks on that shadowknight.OMG that is soooooo OP. 600 total from a quad auto attack, hold the presses.

Paikis

10-15-2009, 11:59 AM

<cite>Enoe wrote:</cite><blockquote>someone didnt uderstand my post. I dont mind trub being able to put big dps numbers, just imo crying for fellow bard class to nerf really badly is not right. All arguments trubs put in this topic why they should and have big dps will work for dirges as well. Not mention that trub cc in pvp are much better.So 1 bard was nerfed from Hero to zero and other bard is dancing on it and saying bards classes are ok with big dps and utility/cc in one. Btw where is a dirge dps now? 1/2 of trub or less?</blockquote>Dirge was nerfed from super-mega-uber hero down to just another guy, and this troub absolutely *IS* dancing on it and saying its ok. And Kudos to Aeralik and Olihin for having the balls to go through with it.How can you possibly think that it is anything close to balanced having a SUPPORT class with a proc that gives them the ability to hit max damage on every single non-spell attack they make? With any luck, the proc will be removed in PvE as well. You want to know what WOULD be balanced?Here I'll show you the BALANCED version of the Dirge Mythical.Lamentation of the IntrepidMYTHICALLORE NO-TRADE+32 str, +28 sta, +36 agi, +58 int+275 health, +275 power+10 slashing+8 melee crit chance+8 Damage spell crit chanceMarch of Blades-Applies the effects of Chime of Blades to all raid membersSustain of the Intrepid- Riana's Indignant Sustain will improve combat art damage by 10%Intrepid Strike-On a successful melee attack this spell has a chance to cast Intrepid Strike on caster. Lasts for 12.0 seconds. This effect will trigger an average of 2.4 times per minute.-Increase melee crit chance of caster by 15.0%-Inflicts 640-960 disease damage on targetTHAT is the weapon that should have gone live in RoK, not the obscene beast that they let you have.

YasikoSetsu

10-15-2009, 12:32 PM

<cite>Killque wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>YasikoSetsuna wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Havalina@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aeeron@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>(1255236252)[Sat Oct 10 21:44:12 2009] YOUR Rune of Warding absorbs 566 points of damage from being done to YOURSELF.(1255236252)[Sat Oct 10 21:44:12 2009] Rocknroll hits YOU for 634 slashing damage.(1255236252)[Sat Oct 10 21:44:12 2009] Rocknroll's Intoxicating Notes hits YOU for 314 poison damage.(1255236252)[Sat Oct 10 21:44:12 2009] Rocknroll double attacks YOU for 1201 slashing damage.(1255236252)[Sat Oct 10 21:44:12 2009] Rocknroll hits YOU for 988 piercing damage.(1255236252)[Sat Oct 10 21:44:12 2009] Rocknroll tries to pierce YOU, but their double attack misses.so if i didnt have my ward item or if that second double attack didnt miss you can likely expect a 4k auto attack.YEAH IT REALL GOT NERFED MAN</blockquote>Well considering the 988 piercing and DA that missed, I would say that has nothing to do with the Mythical, but what do I know...</blockquote>Not enough to bother posting here, apparently? xDPro tip: Dirge mythical proc affected the off-hand weapon too, which in this case, was of the piercing variety.His point was that even without the proc, dirges (scouts in general) can pull off 4k auto's. When he said 'It' he meant dirge auto attacks in general, not the mythical its self.</blockquote>And the point of this thread is with main hand attack, and off hand attack, even if they both double attack I would have been lucky to break 600dmg total from all 4 attacks on that shadowknight.OMG that is soooooo OP. 600 total from a quad auto attack, hold the presses.</blockquote>Welcome to auto attacking tanks, brah!Guess how much my ranger (7 set PvP gear, every piece of RoK jewelry/weapon/shield/etc available, decent non-raid jewelry in all other slots) auto's well geared plate tanks for? About 600-800 (assuming it doesn't just get parried, which is overly common.) Double that if I get a DA, assuming both land, obviously.With that said, ranger is a t1 DPS, and barely auto's well geared plate tanks for more than your dirge.Honestly, stop whining about hitting a SK for crap damage. Theyre effing monsters - crusaders in general, really.Like everyone has said before me: Welcome to the life of a scout, we know you're not used to it, yet.