Raidwide buff issues w/ Paladin and SK (maybe other fighters?)

[Garnaf]

<p>I cannot possibly be the only person who's annoyed with this.The Paladin raidwide buff line (Bayle's Leadership at Teir 8) will force cancel if there are multiple Paladins in a given group or raid.  (The last version of the spell that was cast will take effect, regardless of quality level.  This leads to apprentice 1 versions of the buff overwriting Master 1.  Repeatedly...)  The SK raidwide (Lucan's Leadership at Teir 8) functions in the exact same manner (as does Bloodletter)</p><p>I dunno if this is a uniquely SK/Paladin issue or if it works that way with other fighter raidwides but every day for the last YEAR or so I've /feedbacked that it shouldn't force cancel the spell.  (Sorta like if you, for some reason, have 2 Inquisitors in the same group, the higher form of the groupwide buff will be the only one that applies the stats, but both can have it up at the same time.)</p><p>Bloodletter, Lucan's Leadership and Bayle's Leadership should function like every other grp/raid buff.  (The leadership ones cause it's annoying to keep having my M1 canceled by some [Removed for Content]'s App1, and Bloodletter cause if 2 SKs have their 6 piece set bonus, one of them is gimped out of it since they can't have Bloodletter up).</p><p>(And the fact that I've/feedbacked this so much makes me honestly wonder if they even READ /feedbacks...)</p><p>Posted Here because this affects at LEAST 2 fighters (and thus doesn't fit solely as an SK issue or solely as a Paladin issue.  Since I've never played a Guardian, Zerker, Monk or Bruiser I don't know if it affects theirs, but I'm guessing not.)</p>

[steelbadger]

<p>I'd assume it happens for all tanks, I know it does for Guards.  It's rare that you have a raid with 2 guards in it but when you do the buff-wars begin (Huh, my def buff cancelled?  Wierd, /click).</p>

[RafaelSmith]

<p><cite>Dranikos@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I cannot possibly be the only person who's annoyed with this.The Paladin raidwide buff line (Bayle's Leadership at Teir <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> will force cancel if there are multiple Paladins in a given group or raid. (The last version of the spell that was cast will take effect, regardless of quality level. This leads to apprentice 1 versions of the buff overwriting Master 1. Repeatedly...) The SK raidwide (Lucan's Leadership at Teir <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> functions in the exact same manner (as does Bloodletter)</p><p>I dunno if this is a uniquely SK/Paladin issue or if it works that way with other fighter raidwides but every day for the last YEAR or so I've /feedbacked that it shouldn't force cancel the spell. (Sorta like if you, for some reason, have 2 Inquisitors in the same group, the higher form of the groupwide buff will be the only one that applies the stats, but both can have it up at the same time.)</p><p>Bloodletter, Lucan's Leadership and Bayle's Leadership should function like every other grp/raid buff. (The leadership ones cause it's annoying to keep having my M1 canceled by some [Removed for Content]'s App1, and Bloodletter cause if 2 SKs have their 6 piece set bonus, one of them is gimped out of it since they can't have Bloodletter up).</p><p>(And the fact that I've/feedbacked this so much makes me honestly wonder if they even READ /feedbacks...)</p><p>Posted Here because this affects at LEAST 2 fighters (and thus doesn't fit solely as an SK issue or solely as a Paladin issue. Since I've never played a Guardian, Zerker, Monk or Bruiser I don't know if it affects theirs, but I'm guessing not.)</p></blockquote><p>I happens with Guards as well.  But who would ever know since the seeing two Guards on a raid is rare rare rare thing.</p><p>And our raidwide isnt quite as noticeable as yours.</p>

[Garnaf]

<p>See, that's just stupid.  especially the fact that an APPRENTICE version of the buff can kill a MASTER...  If they can't make them exist side-by-side like almost every other buff in the game, can we at least have it consider the quality of the spell for if it gets overwriten or not?</p>

[luder118]

<p>This happens on Bruisers as well, also ignors spell quality (just as our observations go ignored by the devs /sniker).</p><p>The only group buff I have seen do the same thing is on chanters mana regin buff, but that has been from launch /sigh.</p><p>There is no reason that they need to cancel eachother out when every other group buff will stay up and just simply not stack, seems like a simple code problem that they should allready know how to make right.</p><p>As a side note, if I raided with my SK I would be very upset that bloodletter can not be on more than one SK at a time (assuming there were two in raid).  That is their only really "oh crap" deffencive spell and can not be casted in combat.</p>

[Garnaf]

<p>The bloodletter thing sucks all the more if you've got 6 pieces of TSO set, since it's 5% Mitigation while Bloodletter is up, so someone gets gimped out of that.</p>

[Farore]

<p>I don't want to come in here to flame you guys by any means. But their is a solution to this.</p><p>Pally 1 tells pally 2: "hey what rank is your bayle's leadership"</p><p>Pally 2 tells pally 1: "master 1, and i have it upgraded in aa's"</p><p>pally 1 tells pally 2: "ok cool, mine is only adept III, so keep urs up at all times"</p><p>pally 2 tells pally 1: "haha alright cool, was wandering why mine was getting bumped off"</p><p>Done. Secondly, if anyon has app 1 in a raid, kick them, they need to get a clue</p><p>And last note, all tank raidwide buffs will bump the other off(if they are the same fighter) and likewise with bloodletter.</p>

[Garnaf]

<p><cite>Farore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I don't want to come in here to flame you guys by any means. But their is a solution to this.</p><p>Pally 1 tells pally 2: "hey what rank is your bayle's leadership"</p><p>Pally 2 tells pally 1: "master 1, and i have it upgraded in aa's"</p><p>pally 1 tells pally 2: "ok cool, mine is only adept III, so keep urs up at all times"</p><p>pally 2 tells pally 1: "haha alright cool, was wandering why mine was getting bumped off"</p><p>Done. Secondly, if anyon has app 1 in a raid, kick them, they need to get a clue</p><p>And last note, all tank raidwide buffs will bump the other off(if they are the same fighter) and likewise with bloodletter.</p></blockquote><p>I've had that same conversation with the same SK about 9 times in the same raid.Me: "What rank is your Lucan's?"Him: "Ad1, Why?"Me: "Mine is Master, stop overwriting it"Him: "ok..."5 min later I have to have the SAME dialogue.  Repeat until end of raid.Coding them to exist side by side (or to have quality matter in if it gets overwriten or not) is just a way to avoid having to have the above conversation mutliple times with the same people.  (And fixing Bloodletter would mean that SKs no logner get gimped out of 6 piece bonus, seriously that's dumb...  "Hey you can have a decent 6 piece bonus what gives +5% to overall mitigation, but only 1 of you can have it up at a time")I advocate making all the buffs that behave like this (which is apparently all the Fighter Raidwide Buffs) instead behave like EVERY OTHER BUFF IN THE GAME and either have quality matter in which takes effect, or exist side by side without canceling.</p>

[Bruener]

<p>Bloodletter not stacking is very annoying.  This is a different buff than all of the other raid wide buffs and thus should be treated differently.  It is in fact a single target buff....that when triggered damages those around him for the gain of the SK.  And unlike the other "fighter" raid wide buffs when Bloodletter gets over-written it takes 2.5 minutes before you can recast...another thing that needs to be fixed with the buff.</p><p>I understand why the fighter raid wide buffs don't stack, although I am pretty sure that stacking them would not be some OP'ing move....maybe would provide a slightly better reason to bring more than 3 fighters on a raid.  The Bloodletter issue though is just asinine.  That would be like only one Bezerker on a raid ever getting to use Adrenaline.  Or only one Paladin on a raid getting to ever use HG.  Or only 1 monk on a raid ever getting to use Tsunami.  Bloodletter is arguably the most class defining ability SKs have now and for some reason anytime you have more than 1 around the other 1 gets gimped out of it.  Not to mention that TSO 6 set bonus is based upon this class defining ability...I know it is rare but that means if you get 2 SKs that have geared up to their 6 set in TSO and are in a raid together that one of them just doesn't get any bonus.</p>

[LygerT]

<p>yes, you can only have 1 raidwide buff of a type up at any given time.</p><p>i still reiterate that this is perfectly fine, to keep multiple classes from stacking on a raid, if you want to run 2 of the same type of archtype then one is overwritten. what's so bad about freeing up a concentration slot in most cases anyways?</p>

[Garnaf]

<p>Ok fine, only 1 up at a time.  But if that's true then can we at least have it so that the QUALITY is considered with WHICH takes effect?  (Master > Expert (Ad3) > Adept (Ad1) > Journeryman (App4) > App1).  I'm really tired of my M1 being killed by people with Ad1 and Ad3 (and, in the odd pickup, App1).  REALLY tired of it.  (I'm flexable in this regard.  If they don't want them to co-exist like almost every other buff in the game, then make it so that the highest quality [assuming both from same teir] takes effect.)</p><p>Also, Bloodletter should at least co-exist nicely (since, as was pointed out, it [Removed for Content] 1 out of 6 piece, and it's a major survival tool.)  You don't place such restrictions on other classes' spells [If you have 2 zerkers, both can still use Adrenaline for example, 2 paladins can still use Holy Ground.]  Why can't 2 SKs both keep bloodletter?  No other class has a 6 piece set bonus that, for all intents and purposes, says "If you're the only X Class in raid/group"</p>

[Costa]

<p>It is frustrating that the fighter raid wide buffs overwrite each other and cancel. It would be great if SoE were to fix this but seeing as it has done it since i can remember (2 and a half years playing) i'm guess it is not something that they would class as high priority. Its a shame but i guess we just have to rely on communication to maintain the best quality of an ability for raid. If you do have someone that is unable to do this then maybe they need replacing? After all its not a difficult thing to not cast a buff if you've been told numerouse times that its not needed. But then i guess there are a lot of SK's out there that see sacrement as a high damage attack rather than a massive agro puller...</p><p>As far as bloodletter goes i can see why they don't allow that to stack. If you have more than 1 SK in raid and the raid is close to wiping why would you want the SK's procing bloodletter and possibly wiping the raid? Thats probably a rare example but it is a perfectly valid example. It only takes the SK's to have that buff at adept 1 and thats not such a pleasant life tap for all those on low life in the raid.</p>

[Garnaf]

<p>That's only really semi-valid.  Bloodletter can only reduce to 1 HP (Like lifeburn it can't be a cause of death) and in a full 24 person raid it's a 4.3% HP hit on all 23 others (at master1, it goes up as quality deminishes, but no SK should ever use less than Ad3 Bloodletter anyway, which would translate to about 4.8% Unless my math is wrong) and again, not allowing multiple bloodletters [Removed for Content] SKs out of their TSO set bonus, which is just a crap move on SOE's part.  I don't see anyone ELSE who has a set bonus that stops working with multiple members of their class in a raid.  Imagine the fits we'd see if the Assassin or Wizard ones were "if no other assassins/wizards in raid".</p>

[Costa]

<p>But tbh how many SK's are you having in raid taking big hits? As long as the one that truly needs the extra mit has it then i'm sure the spare SK wouldn't really have an argument to have it on. I think it would be fair to say that SK's have gained much from TSO so to have 1 little frustration isn't much to complain about.</p><p>I play 80 Zerk as my main and have an 80 SK as an alt. I have seen how much SK's have gained and once i start to get the gear and aa's into my SK it could quite easily take over as my instance tank due to how much easier it is to tank with.</p><p>I do agree with you tho it is daft of SoE to link a 6 set bonus with an ability that dosn't stack so maybe that should be changed to a true self buff.</p>

[Bruener]

<p><cite>Lyger@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>yes, you can only have 1 raidwide buff of a type up at any given time.</p><p>i still reiterate that this is perfectly fine, to keep multiple classes from stacking on a raid, if you want to run 2 of the same type of archtype then one is overwritten. what's so bad about freeing up a concentration slot in most cases anyways?</p></blockquote><p>I don't buy this because if it was truly a concern we would see some major revamps to the utility classes so that we aren't bringing 2-3 of each of them on a raid.  4+ bards and 4+ enchanters has been quite the norm for a while now and there is no movement to adjust things to make it different.  Not to mention 3+ clerics on a raid, easily 2 brigs on a raid, etc.</p><p>Even so, as for Bloodletter that is not a beneficial raid-wide.  That is actually a "debuff" for the rest of the raid, and only a self-buff for the SK.  Honestly it is probably just a coding technicality that is difficult to get around and SOE hasn't put the time into it yet.</p><p>Bloodletter needs to be changed so that "if" there are more than 1 SK in a group/raid each of them can have their class defining major survivability tool up.  Otherwise lets just make it so that every single buff for ever fighter can only be up for 1 of that class type in a raid.  I am sure Zerks would just love only one Zerk in a raid being able to ever use Adrenaline.  Or 1 Guard being able to only use their oh crap abilities.</p>

[LygerT]

<p>CoB and PoTM don't stack, they are temporary buffs so they are different. the other side is the group utility that those classes bring. the game is broken in the aspect that power is now such a necessary tool for success as well as certain classes buffs, stacking those classes does not hinder the raid. but as far as fighters are concerned i could care less, there should be restrictions in place to allow only one fighter type to benefit per raid. stacking a raid with 2 paladins and 2 shadowknights for example, yep the rest of the fighters would love to see it, or maybe not... ideally it would be nice to see 1 of each type of fighter on a raid instead of seeing SKs bicker about who gets to put up their uber bloodletter and whine about it not being castable between pulls and breaking their set bonus with more than one SK in raid.</p><p>yep i said whine.</p>

[RafaelSmith]

<p>It makes sense that these buffs do not stack. What doesn't make sense is that whichever one is cast last takes precedence regardless of 'quality'.</p>

[circusgirl]

<p> ....while we're at it, can brawlers get a group buff please?</p>

[LygerT]

<p>i agree that the higher quality spell should take effect over the lesser quality one, instead of just who casts theirs last.</p>

[Bruener]

<p><cite>Lyger@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>CoB and PoTM don't stack, they are temporary buffs so they are different. the other side is the group utility that those classes bring. the game is broken in the aspect that power is now such a necessary tool for success as well as certain classes buffs, stacking those classes does not hinder the raid. but as far as fighters are concerned i could care less, there should be restrictions in place to allow only one fighter type to benefit per raid. stacking a raid with 2 paladins and 2 shadowknights for example, yep the rest of the fighters would love to see it, or maybe not... ideally it would be nice to see 1 of each type of fighter on a raid instead of seeing SKs bicker about who gets to put up their uber bloodletter and whine about it not being castable between pulls and breaking their set bonus with more than one SK in raid.</p><p>yep i said whine.</p></blockquote><p>Fine.  SOE please change Bloodletter so that it does not put any type of debuff on other raid members, and instead just does a raid wide damage for the amount to "allies" as a focus AE.  Problem solved.</p><p>You know Lyger its funny you say whine because there is honestly a lot of it coming from you across all of these forums.  SKs get to do this, Crusaders get to do this, Zerks should get this....blah blah blah.</p><p>Bloodletter is a class defining ability.  And the fact that there "should" not be more than 1 class on a raid was thrown out the window shortly after launch.  Things are done to maybe discourage this...but honestly look at how well bards, chanters, rogues, healers all stack up on raids.  Not to mention that pure DPS classes all stack on raids because they do exactly that...DPS.</p><p>If they are going to limit classes on raids to 1 spot than fighters is definitely not the area they need to start in.  So until that time comes, which it won't, they need to make it so that class definining abilities from certain classes stack.  Honestly, it would be like if there were 2 zerks in a raid that only 1 had their bezerk proc count.  Is it really that hard for you to see that.  The way the coded Bloodletter to be a "raid-wide" buff is wrong.</p><p>I am one of the first to agree that having multiple of certain classes on a raid should be highly discouraged.  And for the most part it is with fighters since their other raid wide buffs are non-stackable and the fact that there is very multiple tanking going on.  But for guilds that do not get to run optimum set ups, or pick up raids, or alliance raids, or the fact that for some reason there just happens to be 2 great players of a class in the same guild means that Bloodletter should stack.</p>

[Kordran]

<p>TBH, I stopped reading at the "multiple Paladins in a given group or raid". That's kind of like arguing whether or not there should be snowball fights in Hell.</p><p>For most serious raiding guild, this isn't going to be an issue because they're not going to bring along two or more Paladins (or two of the same plate fighter class, really) in the first place. For pickup raids, well you roll your dices and take your chances, but it's nothing simple communication can't fix.</p><p>An annoyance? Yeah, but an extremely trivial one.</p>

[Garnaf]

<p>Then you missed where Paladins were only an example?  It also affects SKs (which I knew solidly before this post) and every other fighter (which I didn't).  I know plenty of guilds with multiple SKs, some still use multiple guardians or multiple zerkers.  I just used Paladins as an example of another class that I knew was affected by this.</p>

[Kordran]

<p><cite>Dranikos@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Then you missed where Paladins were only an example?  It also affects SKs (which I knew solidly before this post) and every other fighter (which I didn't).  I know plenty of guilds with multiple SKs, some still use multiple guardians or multiple zerkers.  I just used Paladins as an example of another class that I knew was affected by this.</p></blockquote><p>I was being a bit snarky there. From personal experience, it's just that most raiding guilds don't tend to overlap much when it comes to plate tanks in the same raid. Regardless, like I said, it's a nuisance but easily addressed with a little communication on the part of the players. While I wouldn't mind them addressing it in some fashion, my opinion is that there are much bigger fish to fry when it comes to fighter issues, that's all.</p>

[Garnaf]

<p>That I can agree with, there are bigger issues out there.  I really posted this because it came up about 3 times the other day (a pickup raid, a little talking in the SK Worldwide channel, and a debate in Guild Chat about if old teir master was better than current teir ad3).  So it was readily on my mind, and easy to come up with an agrument for.</p>

[Stonestrong]

<p>You guys are ridiculous implying that they need to adjust the game to compensate for over riding buffs to be sorted by level. This is something that is sorted out by very minimal communication.</p><p>Pally 1  "Hey man you casting Bayles Leadership?"</p><p>Pally 2 " Yeah I am."</p><p>Pally 1  "Ok I see yours is Ad3 mine is master I will keep it up instead ok?"</p><p>Pally 2  "Sure."</p><p>That takes like 1 minute. There are so many better things these developers could be spending time addressing than issues like this. It seems they are under staffed and over worked and people just continue with non stop fluff complaints, it amazes me. Can we work on getting classes balanced and actual broken game mechanics fixed instead of asking them to hold our hands when we cast buffs?</p><p>Stone</p>

[Bruener]

<p><cite>Stonestrong wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You guys are ridiculous implying that they need to adjust the game to compensate for over riding buffs to be sorted by level. This is something that is sorted out by very minimal communication.</p><p>Pally 1  "Hey man you casting Bayles Leadership?"</p><p>Pally 2 " Yeah I am."</p><p>Pally 1  "Ok I see yours is Ad3 mine is master I will keep it up instead ok?"</p><p>Pally 2  "Sure."</p><p>That takes like 1 minute. There are so many better things these developers could be spending time addressing than issues like this. It seems they are under staffed and over worked and people just continue with non stop fluff complaints, it amazes me. Can we work on getting classes balanced and actual broken game mechanics fixed instead of asking them to hold our hands when we cast buffs?</p><p>Stone</p></blockquote><p>I agree.</p><p>However, it doesn't change the fact that Bloodletter should be able to be up for all SKs that are in the same presence.  That is the more important issue in this whole thread that should be looked at.</p>

[LygerT]

<p>or just bring 1 SK.</p>

[Bruener]

<p><cite>Lyger@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>or just bring 1 SK.</p></blockquote><p>Yeah I guess.  While we are at it SOE can we please get all fighter buffs to be unstackable if they are in the same raids.  Means only 1 zerker in the raid being able to Bezerk or ever cast Adrenaline.  Only 1 monk on a raid being able to cast Tsunami.  Only 1 Paladin ever being able to use HG.  Only 1 Guard being able to use Reinforcement, ToS, etc ever on a raid....</p><p>I hope you get the point.</p>

[Lleren]

<p><cite>Lyger@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>or just bring 1 SK.</p></blockquote><p>or just bring 1 of every class?</p>

[RafaelSmith]

<p><cite>Bruener wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Lyger@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>or just bring 1 SK.</p></blockquote><p>Yeah I guess. While we are at it SOE can we please get all fighter buffs to be unstackable if they are in the same raids. Means only 1 zerker in the raid being able to Bezerk or ever cast Adrenaline. Only 1 monk on a raid being able to cast Tsunami. Only 1 Paladin ever being able to use HG. Only 1 Guard being able to use Reinforcement, ToS, etc ever on a raid....</p><p>I hope you get the point.</p></blockquote><p>I think this whole discussion is moot.</p><p>Who seriously brings more than 1 Guard or more than 1 Pally or more than 1 Zerker or more than 1 SK to raids?</p>

[Bruener]

<p><cite>Gaylon@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Bruener wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Lyger@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>or just bring 1 SK.</p></blockquote><p>Yeah I guess. While we are at it SOE can we please get all fighter buffs to be unstackable if they are in the same raids. Means only 1 zerker in the raid being able to Bezerk or ever cast Adrenaline. Only 1 monk on a raid being able to cast Tsunami. Only 1 Paladin ever being able to use HG. Only 1 Guard being able to use Reinforcement, ToS, etc ever on a raid....</p><p>I hope you get the point.</p></blockquote><p>I think this whole discussion is moot.</p><p>Who seriously brings more than 1 Guard or more than 1 Pally or more than 1 Zerker or more than 1 SK to raids?</p></blockquote><p>There are a lot of mismatched raids run.  Pick-up raids.  Family guild raids.  Yes, we all know that most min/max guilds are not going to bring 2 of each of those fighters on a raid (although in RoK 2 Guards in a raid for MT/OT was pretty common)...but not everybody is running min/max raids.  Not to mention in grouping it is the same thing with SKs.  2 SKs in a group, only 1 gets to use Bloodletter.  It is a class defining ability and very annoying it doesn't stack.</p>

[RafaelSmith]

<p><cite>Bruener wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gaylon@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Bruener wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Lyger@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>or just bring 1 SK.</p></blockquote><p>Yeah I guess. While we are at it SOE can we please get all fighter buffs to be unstackable if they are in the same raids. Means only 1 zerker in the raid being able to Bezerk or ever cast Adrenaline. Only 1 monk on a raid being able to cast Tsunami. Only 1 Paladin ever being able to use HG. Only 1 Guard being able to use Reinforcement, ToS, etc ever on a raid....</p><p>I hope you get the point.</p></blockquote><p>I think this whole discussion is moot.</p><p>Who seriously brings more than 1 Guard or more than 1 Pally or more than 1 Zerker or more than 1 SK to raids?</p></blockquote><p>There are a lot of mismatched raids run.  Pick-up raids.  Family guild raids.  Yes, we all know that most min/max guilds are not going to bring 2 of each of those fighters on a raid (although in RoK 2 Guards in a raid for MT/OT was pretty common)...but not everybody is running min/max raids.  Not to mention in grouping it is the same thing with SKs.  2 SKs in a group, only 1 gets to use Bloodletter.  It is a class defining ability and very annoying it doesn't stack.</p></blockquote><p>LOL you should take a look at what my raids usually look like.....in terms of raiding we are about as non min/max as you can get and we still avoid at all costs having more than 1 of a particular fighter type. There is being casual then there is being desperate to filling slots.</p><p>I agree that the overriding of raidwide/group buffs is annoying but considering the other issues facing the game and the fighter archetype I just put it at extreme low priority.</p>

[Bruener]

<p><cite>Gaylon@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Bruener wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gaylon@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Bruener wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Lyger@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>or just bring 1 SK.</p></blockquote><p>Yeah I guess. While we are at it SOE can we please get all fighter buffs to be unstackable if they are in the same raids. Means only 1 zerker in the raid being able to Bezerk or ever cast Adrenaline. Only 1 monk on a raid being able to cast Tsunami. Only 1 Paladin ever being able to use HG. Only 1 Guard being able to use Reinforcement, ToS, etc ever on a raid....</p><p>I hope you get the point.</p></blockquote><p>I think this whole discussion is moot.</p><p>Who seriously brings more than 1 Guard or more than 1 Pally or more than 1 Zerker or more than 1 SK to raids?</p></blockquote><p>There are a lot of mismatched raids run.  Pick-up raids.  Family guild raids.  Yes, we all know that most min/max guilds are not going to bring 2 of each of those fighters on a raid (although in RoK 2 Guards in a raid for MT/OT was pretty common)...but not everybody is running min/max raids.  Not to mention in grouping it is the same thing with SKs.  2 SKs in a group, only 1 gets to use Bloodletter.  It is a class defining ability and very annoying it doesn't stack.</p></blockquote><p>LOL you should take a look at what my raids usually look like.....in terms of raiding we are about as non min/max as you can get and we still avoid at all costs having more than 1 of a particular fighter type. There is being casual then there is being desperate to filling slots.</p><p>I agree that the overriding of raidwide/group buffs is annoying but considering the other issues facing the game and the fighter archetype I just put it at extreme low priority.</p></blockquote><p>Yes.  Again I agree that the "over-riding" of raidwide buffs is annoying and that dev expenses can be used on other issues.  However, the Bloodletter issue is a completely different issue.  For those that don't know Bloodletter for SKs is their "special" level 80 ability.  It is seperate from the "raidwide" buff.  It is their major survivability tool to close the gap with the other tanks.  When a SK dies with Bloodletter up it is an automatical full heal draining the amount of total health needed divided by the number of players in the group/raid...damaging them for that small portion.  It has 1 trigger and when it goes off the ability can not be recast in combat and has approximately a 3 min recast out of combat only.</p><p>Now, the SK 6 set ability from RoK and TSO are both based on having Bloodletter up.  Both give an extra trigger of Bloodletter while wearing 6 set.  Furthermore, TSO linked +5 mit to Bloodletter while having 6 set.</p><p>So, recap...we have a class defining level 80 special ability that SOE uses to give benefits to the SK through their 6 set, a buff that has a 3 min recast and can only be cast out of combat.  The major survivability tool of a SK to make up the ground for what the other plate tanks have ability wise.</p><p>There is no reason that per se, if 2 SKs decide to go raid a zone together, or happen to go group together, that this ability should not stack.  It is a self buff, that happens to leach life from the members around them when it goes off.</p>