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Garnaf
12-22-2008, 11:23 PM
<p>This has always bothered me.  In both EQ1 and EQ2, Lhranc is refered to as the first ShadowKnight.  However in EQ1 it's also adknowledged that he was a citizen of Freeport before Mithaniel Marr bound his soul to Torsis.  My question is this: How can Lhranc be the first ShadowKnight is he was a citizen of Freeport, which wasn't founded til after the fall of the Iksar Empire, when Emperor Rile Sathir was the First Iksar ShadowKnight...  Since Rile predates Lhranc by a wide margin, shouldn't Rile be the first ShadowKnight?  It's FAR more likely that Lhranc is the first HUMAN ShadowKnight, but he's never refered to in that manner, simply 'The First ShadowKnight'.  Why?</p>

Cusashorn
12-23-2008, 12:52 AM
<p>Actually, due to the fact that there is no solid defined calender that covers all dates across the entire world, it's not easy to say that the Iksar empire existed before the existance of Freeport or the Human race. We know that in EQlive, Cabilis was still a fairly new city, as the Iksar were just recovering from the fall of the empire and reuniting again as a race. They were just starting to pick themselves back up onto thier feet.</p><p>It's very possible that Lhranc became the first shadowknight right when Freeport was in it's infancy itself.</p><p>That's my theory, anyway.</p><p>Theory number 2: By calling him the first Shadowknight, Lhranc is in actuallity, coining the name "Shadowknight." Regardless of whether similar abilities have been shown in the past, maybe this case is a litteral sense of being called a Shadowknight.</p><p>Theory 3: Just because Rile showed the makings of a shadowknight by using one or two necro spells mixed in, he probably didn't define the class by that alone. Maybe Lhranc actualy built what the class ment. The disciplines, the combat styles, the use of dark arts in swordplay.</p>

Illine
12-23-2008, 07:30 AM
<p>well maybe because as someone stated, somtimes lore is character based. So if Lhranc didn't know anything about the iskar and Rile sathir, how could he have known there were another SK.</p><p>it's Norath, not our world, they don't have internet and news sometimes never make it to other races, especially if they don't know each other or don't care.</p>

Rezikai
12-24-2008, 08:05 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This has always bothered me.  In both EQ1 and EQ2, Lhranc is refered to as the first ShadowKnight.  However in EQ1 it's also adknowledged that he was a citizen of Freeport before Mithaniel Marr bound his soul to Torsis.  My question is this: How can Lhranc be the first ShadowKnight is he was a citizen of Freeport, which wasn't founded til after the fall of the Iksar Empire, when Emperor Rile Sathir was the First Iksar ShadowKnight...  Since Rile predates Lhranc by a wide margin, shouldn't Rile be the first ShadowKnight?  <em>It's FAR more likely that Lhranc is the first HUMAN ShadowKnight, but he's never refered to in that manner, simply 'The First ShadowKnight'.  Why</em></p></blockquote><p>possible</p><p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Actually, due to the fact that there is no solid defined calender that covers all dates across the entire world, it's not easy to say that the Iksar empire existed before the existance of Freeport or the Human race. We know that in EQlive, Cabilis was still a fairly new city, as the Iksar were just recovering from the fall of the empire and reuniting again as a race. They were just starting to pick themselves back up onto thier feet.</p><p>It's very possible that Lhranc became the first shadowknight right when Freeport was in it's infancy itself.</p><p>That's my theory, anyway.</p><p>Theory number 2: By calling him the first Shadowknight, Lhranc is in actuallity, coining the name "Shadowknight." Regardless of whether similar abilities have been shown in the past, maybe this case is a litteral sense of being called a Shadowknight.</p><p>Theory 3: Just because Rile showed the makings of a shadowknight by using one or two necro spells mixed in, he probably didn't define the class by that alone. Maybe Lhranc actualy built what the class ment. The disciplines, the combat styles, the use of dark arts in swordplay.</p></blockquote><p>Cusa makes alot of sense here, seeing as Freeport had Shadowknights well before EQ1, (see eqoa) but I think Cusa's second theory to be accurate, Seeing as we've seen other figures in the past use similar abilities and skills as "Dark Knights" and the like long before Freeport was founded (see Naythox after he was "Twisted"). The coining of Shadowknight may also be that professional term. There are shadowknights of Innoruuk, shadowknights of Cazic, shadowknights of Bert or XXX god.</p>

Wilin
12-25-2008, 02:12 PM
<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Actually, due to the fact that there is no solid defined calender that covers all dates across the entire world, it's not easy to say that the Iksar empire existed before the existance of Freeport or the Human race. We know that in EQlive, Cabilis was still a fairly new city, as the Iksar were just recovering from the fall of the empire and reuniting again as a race. They were just starting to pick themselves back up onto thier feet.</p><p>It's very possible that Lhranc became the first shadowknight right when Freeport was in it's infancy itself.</p></blockquote><p>The assorted calendars in existance place Rile as Emporer about 1500 years before Freeport was founded. I don't know how accurate they are though.</p>

Ragnaphore
12-25-2008, 04:06 PM
<p>Maybe it's because the Iksars didn't consider themselves as "Shadowknights" but rather as "Cazic's Paladins".</p><p>In EQ1 the Iksar "Shadowknights" NPC had paladin titles such as "Crusader". </p>

Dreyco
12-25-2008, 04:26 PM
<p>Indeed, the Iksar considered themselves "Crusaders of Greenmist" and held a completely different philosophy on what their breed of knight embodied.  Lhranc might have established the first norrathian concept of "Shadow Knight"-hood upon Norrath as it was recognized by humans and dark elves alike, but the Iksar were noteably different in how they conducted their practices.</p>

Zin`Car
01-05-2009, 02:09 PM
<p>He wasn't considered the first SK ever... Simply the first <strong><em><span style="text-decoration: underline;">HUMAN SK</span></em></strong>.  Teir`Dal, Ogre, Troll and Iksar always had SK's.  Lharnc was nothing more than the first human SK to exist.</p><p>It's really no more complicated than that.</p><p>Next question?</p>

Cusashorn
01-05-2009, 03:13 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>He wasn't considered the first SK ever... Simply the first <strong><em><span style="text-decoration: underline;">HUMAN SK</span></em></strong>.  Teir`Dal, Ogre, Troll and Iksar always had SK's.  Lharnc was nothing more than the first human SK to exist.</p><p>It's really no more complicated than that.</p><p>Next question?</p></blockquote><p>There's no mention of him being the first human shadowknight anywhere in the lore behind him. If the epic quest itself rewards you with a sword forged in Innoruuk's name, then why are you getting it from a human and not a Dark Elf, if the human had a much more significance on the lore?</p>

Zin`Car
01-05-2009, 06:06 PM
<p>i'll see what i can dig up when i get home.  but the confusion about him being <em>the first SK ever</em> is as old as Ruins of Kunark caused by people not paying attention to what they've read, then jumping to conclusions.</p><p>Trust me though, he isn't <em>the first SK...</em> just the first <strong>human </strong>sk.</p>

Cusashorn
01-05-2009, 07:14 PM
<p>Ok, you were right, it mentions him as the first HUMAN.</p><hr /><p>Marl Kastane says 'Innoruuk had not forsaken Lhranc. Once his rage and hate had matured and sufficiently altered his soul, the dark prince summoned him and gave him dominion over the demons that had enslaved his mind. He was given a weapon that made him powerful enough to slay any enemy that stood in his way. <span style="color: #ff0000;">He was to become the first human to harness the power of the almighty shadowknight.</span> After years of traveling and teaching mankind his newfound abilities, Lhranc sneaked back into Freeport through a series of sewers in search of revenge against his brother and in hopes of kidnapping Kyrenna, the source of his obsession. Waiting until Glohnor was alone, Lhranc sprang from the shadows and slew his brother. This was the act that brought about his curse.</p><hr />