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View Full Version : The max items placed in the large guild halls need to be more.


bryldan
10-11-2008, 10:32 AM
1500 while seems high I believe needs to be more. While the guild I am in is not quite there yet we will be soon I think with how much room there is to fill. Are any other guilds starting to run into this problem?

BladeLo
10-13-2008, 11:26 AM
I was looking at one of the level 70 guild halls that according to their access door had like 1336 items placed.  Kewl I thought till I looked around.The place was barren.Im Thinking 5000 Items sounds more reasonable.  I totally agree.  Personally I think the Guild level 70 halls are just WAAAAYYYYY toooooooo BBBBIIIIGGGGGGG.  My guild has a tier 2 guild and are very happy with it.  The level 70 guilds are so massive that unless you have 300 players in your guild they certainly are not for the feint of heart when purchasing and upkeeping them.

interstellarmatter
10-13-2008, 11:33 AM
<p>The dev said that he was worried about crashing the database if he had the limit too high.</p><p>He said that if everything goes ok..he might slowly increase the limit in the guild houses.</p>

bryldan
10-13-2008, 11:37 AM
While it takes a lil while to sometimes zone in i think the overall stability is fine on them. Sometimes I do get some rendering problems in them but usually that is due to my computer being left on a few days so its probably more of a case of my applications eating up my memory.

CoLD MeTaL
10-13-2008, 11:44 AM
Not sure how many items we have in our hall, but it takes 4-5 times as long to load as QH.  No item increase, until zoning gets streamlined, please.

bryldan
10-13-2008, 11:46 AM
I could care less if it takes longer to load if it means more items in the guild house <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

nirate
10-13-2008, 12:07 PM
IIRC the pocket expanders do work in a guild hall

Yimway
10-13-2008, 12:18 PM
No thanks on this one.At only 600 items, we already have issues with it not drawing in items as you enter rooms.  Our main hall room with just 22 items in it takes 3-6s to draw all items when you enter the room.Our tradeskill room with all the tables, and npc's required to use them effectively takes closer to 12s to draw them in.No point in raising the limit till you can more effectively handle drawing these items in.Also, at 600 items it takes 13s longer to zone in than it did with an empty hall.In all likely hood, we'll end up removing every non-essential item and not decorate the place at all in order to get rid of the lag.

Gungo
10-13-2008, 12:44 PM
<cite>CoLD MeTaL wrote:</cite><blockquote>Not sure how many items we have in our hall, but it takes 4-5 times as long to load as QH.  No item increase, until zoning gets streamlined, please.</blockquote>You dont need to use the item limit completely if you do not want to.But yes 500 more items on the t3 hall would rock we currently are over 2200 items. (not all take up item slots)Personally i am also having some rending issues using a 150 gig 10k raptor drive. I am considering getting a second raptor to raid 0 for a minimal increase in rendering items. And/or add in a sollid state drive.

Gungo
10-13-2008, 12:45 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>No thanks on this one.At only 600 items, we already have issues with it not drawing in items as you enter rooms.  Our main hall room with just 22 items in it takes 3-6s to draw all items when you enter the room.Our tradeskill room with all the tables, and npc's required to use them effectively takes closer to 12s to draw them in.No point in raising the limit till you can more effectively handle drawing these items in.Also, at 600 items it takes 13s longer to zone in than it did with an empty hall.In all likely hood, we'll end up removing every non-essential item and not decorate the place at all in order to get rid of the lag.</blockquote>rendering items is based on YOUR computer accessing the harddrive. The server loads the items before you zone in. lengthening load times. Maybe i was use to eq1 and 1 min loads lol. Regardless if they increased the cap on the tier 3 hall you DO NOT need to use the extra room.

Yimway
10-13-2008, 12:53 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>of the lag.</blockquote>rendering items is based on YOUR computer accessing the harddrive. The server loads the items before you zone in.Regardless if they increased the cap on the tier 3 hall you DO NOT need to use the extra room. </blockquote>Wrong.The client loads all the textures into memory when you zone in.  However it does not render their positions until told to by the server.Basically the client passes your current location and heading to the server.  The server responds with the objects that exist near you and in your projected path and tells the client each object in your projected path's current location and THAT objects current heading.Your client then places those items around you and gets ready to draw them in as you approach.   Thus if you quickly change your heading and or have excessively high run speed in an area of crowded objects, you may see issues with objects drawing in even in sparsely populated zones.  In hight population zones like harbors and guild halls, this liklihood is greatly increased.Your client is NOT aware of every items size and location when you zone in, K thx.

bryldan
10-13-2008, 02:20 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>of the lag.</blockquote>rendering items is based on YOUR computer accessing the harddrive. The server loads the items before you zone in.Regardless if they increased the cap on the tier 3 hall you DO NOT need to use the extra room. </blockquote>Wrong.The client loads all the textures into memory when you zone in. However it does not render their positions until told to by the server.Basically the client passes your current location and heading to the server. The server responds with the objects that exist near you and in your projected path and tells the client each object in your projected path's current location and THAT objects current heading.Your client then places those items around you and gets ready to draw them in as you approach. Thus if you quickly change your heading and or have excessively high run speed in an area of crowded objects, you may see issues with objects drawing in even in sparsely populated zones. In hight population zones like harbors and guild halls, this liklihood is greatly increased.Your client is NOT aware of every items size and location when you zone in, K thx.</blockquote>Well I thought the crash last night was over my comp being on too long and killing my memory but I was wrong about that.I wasnt the only one this happened to and I wanna know if it is happening to any of you either.Some kind of fatal error and boom your booted.

Gungo
10-13-2008, 04:05 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>of the lag.</blockquote>rendering items is based on YOUR computer accessing the harddrive. The server loads the items before you zone in.Regardless if they increased the cap on the tier 3 hall you DO NOT need to use the extra room. </blockquote>Wrong.The client loads all the textures into memory when you zone in.  However it does not render their positions until told to by the server.Basically the client passes your current location and heading to the server.  The server responds with the objects that exist near you and in your projected path and tells the client each object in your projected path's current location and THAT objects current heading.Your client then places those items around you and gets ready to draw them in as you approach.   Thus if you quickly change your heading and or have excessively high run speed in an area of crowded objects, you may see issues with objects drawing in even in sparsely populated zones.  In hight population zones like harbors and guild halls, this liklihood is greatly increased.Your client is NOT aware of every items size and location when you zone in, K thx.</blockquote>Wrong. Learn to read.... thank you<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm sure we can come up with a way to delay their loading until all of the other house items have loaded.</blockquote>I beg you not to do this.  It's already very frustrating to port to the room the banker and broker are in and sit there and wait while lots of house items load in.  Then finally the NPC's load in usually last.  Once while decorating I actually forgot what I even needed off the broker because that NPC took so long to load in.  I'm a big fan of decorating myself and I'm sure there can be some kind of balance reached between function and decoration.  But if the NPC's take any longer to load in then they already do I'm afraid I'll forget what I was doing altogether before I can use them.</blockquote><b>The problem I'm talking about fixing and the problem you're talking about are two different things.  The <span style="font-size: medium;">server loads all of the house items from the database the first time the zone is created</span> and this is done before a person is even allowed to zone in.  Changing the order that the items load won't be noticable or affect the loading times.  The problem you're having is the <span style="font-size: small;">amount of time it takes your computer to load the resources from the hard drive before the NPC can be rendered</span>.</b></blockquote>

Yimway
10-13-2008, 04:21 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite>Wrong. Learn to read.... thank you</blockquote>I have.This is exactly how things are drawn in,  Your client isn't even aware of these objects location until your position and current vector are communicated with the server.

MCS-Apophis
10-13-2008, 06:34 PM
<p>If your having issue with draw time and load times, upgrade your computer.</p><p> Ive got a system with a dual-core 2.93, a ATI 4870 and (2) raptor 10k RPM Harddrives, no drawing issues at all in even the largest guild halls.  Mine even worked well in the guild hall that had 1400 cats in it.</p><p> So if your having issues with load times or draw rates, upgrade your computer, dont blame it on client coding, server times etc.  Sony made massive improvments to the client when they decided to offload some of the animations to another core.  Time to give them a little credit.</p>

Daedalus Raistlin
10-13-2008, 09:20 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite>Wrong. Learn to read.... thank you</blockquote>I have.This is exactly how things are drawn in,  Your client isn't even aware of these objects location until your position and current vector are communicated with the server. </blockquote>This doesn't really make sense, imo, and also doesn't match what Rothgar said.The way I think it works, is that the server tells you what items are in the zone and where, at which point information about them is loaded from your hard drive.When your client decides it's in range of the object (based on your video settings etc) it get ready to render it. Depending on your system, some of the resources may have been unloaded to free up memory, so it starts loading them. Since it's loading them in the background so as not to interrupt your gameplay, you may be in 'seeing' range of the object before your computer has managed to load all the resources to display it, thus the items appearing to 'lag' or not display at the right time.Of course, I could be wrong, but making all this stuff server-side would put an unneeded burden on the server, making it do something the client can do easily.But anyway, back on topic, I think upping the limit would be good for the guilds that need it. Those T3 halls need a lot of items, or they look barren.If your guild doesn't want to use the extra item limit, then they simply don't have to; I don't think that other guilds should miss out on more items though.

Mikkahl
10-13-2008, 10:26 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>Your client then places those items around you and gets ready to draw them in as you approach.   Thus if you quickly change your heading and or have excessively high run speed in an area of crowded objects, you may see issues with objects drawing in even in sparsely populated zones.  </blockquote>The most obvious example of this in guild halls is the first time you take the teleporter pad to a new room, the objects can take many seconds to fill in.  We have build a platform way up high on the tower, and put a pad there.  But, if you move too fast after you teleport in, you can "fall through" the platform before it has a chance to paint!  SPLAT!

Yimway
10-14-2008, 12:19 PM
<cite>MCS-Apophis wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>If your having issue with draw time and load times, upgrade your computer.</p><p> Ive got a system with a dual-core 2.93, a ATI 4870 and (2) raptor 10k RPM Harddrives, no drawing issues at all in even the largest guild halls.  Mine even worked well in the guild hall that had 1400 cats in it.</p></blockquote>I have as strong if not stronger system, in fact I run eq2 from solid state drive.  I also had no drawing issues innitially.When teleporting into a room and running track, the npcs are not there for 10s after teleporting.  Why?  cause the server hasn't sent the information to the client, not cause they aren't drawing inThis problem didn't exist when only 5 guilds on server had a guild hall.  Over the weekend when that number went over 20 guilds with a tier3 hall, all this server lag started happening.  Coincidence?  Doubtful.You can also see it using abilities on the combat dummies.  Initially it was very responsive spell casting.  Now there is button delay while using spells.

Yimway
10-14-2008, 12:31 PM
<cite>Daedalus Raistlin wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>current vector are communicated with the server. </blockquote>This doesn't really make sense, imo, and also doesn't match what Rothgar said.The way I think it works, is that the server tells you what items are in the zone and where, at which point information about them is loaded from your hard drive.When your client decides it's in range of the object (based on your video settings etc) it get ready to render it. Depending on your system, some of the resources may have been unloaded to free up memory, so it starts loading them. Since it's loading them in the background so as not to interrupt your gameplay, you may be in 'seeing' range of the object before your computer has managed to load all the resources to display it, thus the items appearing to 'lag' or not display at the right time.</blockquote>No, the models needed for the zone are loaded to ram on zoning in.The entire zone is not positioned to client at zone in.  Each zone is broken into sections, called rooms oddly enough in the client, even though outdoor zones don't have rooms, they're still broken this way.General information about current room is loaded, and as vector approachs neighboring 'rooms' data is loaded and prepositioned.  However npc's, mobs, and other data are not sent to client from server until your location, facing, and vector places a probability of their render likely.It was easy to see all this in beta when trace debugging was left in the client.  Attaching a debugger provided you all sorts of data about how the client worked and what it was doing when.I'm quite certain the render issues I'm seeing are related to server updating client as I teleport around the zone.  Doesn't particularly matter to me if anyone understands or agrees outside of SoE devs.  I'm curious just how many guild hall instances are run on the same zone server?  All the guild halls on just my server?  Several Servers?  All Servers?  Cause it is very apparent that as the number of halls increase, the more the delay is.  

Jovie
10-14-2008, 03:41 PM
<p>Yeah, the items are not drawn until within your set clipping plane. This was a change made quite some time ago to lower the chug factor on most pc's because they were essentially drawing the entire zone even though you could only see a portion of it.</p><p>I imagine that the people using the portal things have the biggest issue because it is an instant appearance into an area, forcing your pc to draw everything right away.</p><p>It is different because when you run around your hall, you draw a smaller specific area in comparison.</p>

feldon30
10-14-2008, 04:30 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>No thanks on this one.At only 600 items, we already have issues with it not drawing in items as you enter rooms.  Our main hall room with just 22 items in it takes 3-6s to draw all items when you enter the room.Our tradeskill room with all the tables, and npc's required to use them effectively takes closer to 12s to draw them in.</blockquote>We have full crafting tables in our hall in our T2 hall and have not had any lag/draw problems on several different PCs. It must be a T3 hall issue? Or a server issue?

Yimway
10-14-2008, 04:38 PM
<cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>We have full crafting tables in our hall and I have not seen a single draw problem on 2 laptops and several PCs I have looked at. Are you using the portals? Have you defragged? Got 3GB of RAM?</blockquote>4 tables, depot, 5 npcs, mail box, writ board, teleporter, tradeskill buff statues, etc.  rough count 22 items in the room.Teleporting into the room takes 3-10s for the objects to be updated.  Enough time to run 3-4 laps around the room waiting for it to render.  I'm at roughly 100fps running thru the guild hall.  I'm not getting 'graphics' lag, pauses or hiccups.  Simply waiting for draw ins.Walking into the room and generally its not an issue.8gb ram, solid state drive, at roughly 40% cpu utiliziation, no disk access, just waiting on the server to send me the positions to render.And as I stated already, it started saturday when more halls were bought, and has got progressively worse as more halls have been purchased.As I said, I _really_ don't think this is a pc issue.   It is also being observed by every player on unrest I've spoken with anyway.

Jesdyr
10-14-2008, 04:52 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>It is also being observed by every player on unrest I've spoken with anyway.</blockquote>Yup. The t3 halls are getting laggy. Not only are more being purchased but slowly they are all getting decorated. The decorations is likely to be the problem. With the way most decoraters design things there are some areas with a large density of items that can cause large spikes of data being needed by a client approcing the area.The Zone servers or the database calls are not keeping up. Something is causeing a bottle neck. On the other hand I have seen a lot of complaints about zone times. Some of these issues are direcertly related to the client PC. This issue is only when you zone in. After that you are fine (still get pop when running around).

Rothgar
10-14-2008, 04:55 PM
All house items are loaded by the server when the zone comes up.  But they aren't all sent to the client when you zone in.  The server only sends objects to the client that are within proximity of your character.  The items communicated to you by the server has a lot to do with the number of items around you and your performance settings.  In denser areas, the server will hit a cap and stop sending you items, so you might not see things further away even though you know they are there.  In sparsely populated areas, you'll see things much further away unless you client decides not to render them based on performance settings.There are lots of different factors in determining whether an item is rendered or not.  Here's a post I made about getting the most out of these settings.<a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=60&topic_id=429940#4790979" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...=429940#4790979</a>Another thing you can do to improve performance in a house with a large item count is to reuse the same items as much as possible and get rid of unique items that you don't really need.  The house with 1500 cats is a great example.  Its 1500 items, but all the same item with the same texture so the house runs pretty fast other than the fact that all 1500 items are animated.  If you created a house with 1500 of the same chair in it, it would perform really well and use very little memory.  If you created a hall with 1500 different items in it all using their own textures, the performance would be horrendous.  There just really isn't much we can do about that on our end.  We already dynamically load and unload textures when they are needed, but this just means as you run around the house your computer is having to do lots of harddrive work.  Unfortunately increasing the item count just makes the problem worse unless people are picky about what items they use.This is just the nature of houses.  We design zones to share textures so very large zones like you see in Kunark run fine.  But when you take a house zone and allow people to put any item they want in it, from any previous expansion and adventure pack, ther performance is definitely going to depend on how many unique items are placed.

Jesdyr
10-14-2008, 05:05 PM
<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>This is just the nature of houses.  We design zones to share textures so very large zones like you see in Kunark run fine.  But when you take a house zone and allow people to put any item they want in it, from any previous expansion and adventure pack, ther performance is definitely going to depend on how many unique items are placed.</blockquote>And most decorators are going to use many unique items <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I think I take more of a performance hit for lots of light sources than texture swapping.

Yimway
10-14-2008, 05:36 PM
<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Another thing you can do to improve performance in a house with a large item count is to reuse the same items as much as possible and get rid of unique items that you don't really need.  </blockquote>Rothgar,Not disagreeing with what your saying, however....A house with only 350 unique items had excelent performance friday at noon.  Log in the next morning with almost the same item count, and render delays.  Each day since then seems to have gotten progressively worse.  The only correlation I see is the number of guild halls on the server increasing.Certainly not using the teleporters helps, as the client isn't immediately updating for a new area, and is pulling them as we approach.We're also seeing what we would call zone lag using the dummies and creatures.  Push a button and wait for server to parse the cast, etc.

Foolsfolly
10-14-2008, 06:41 PM
Have you considered making a cap to the number of unique items then? Like maybe instead of 1500 items, you could say 2000 max items with 1000 max models?

Rothgar
10-14-2008, 07:23 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Another thing you can do to improve performance in a house with a large item count is to reuse the same items as much as possible and get rid of unique items that you don't really need.  </blockquote>Rothgar,Not disagreeing with what your saying, however....A house with only 350 unique items had excelent performance friday at noon.  Log in the next morning with almost the same item count, and render delays.  Each day since then seems to have gotten progressively worse.  The only correlation I see is the number of guild halls on the server increasing.Certainly not using the teleporters helps, as the client isn't immediately updating for a new area, and is pulling them as we approach.We're also seeing what we would call zone lag using the dummies and creatures.  Push a button and wait for server to parse the cast, etc.</blockquote>Atan,You're right.  The issue you are talking about is server-related.  I wasn't implying that the number of unique house items was the cause for the server performance, I was simply trying to give some tips on how you can improve client performance by limiting the number of resources being loaded.The issue with server performance is definitely related to the number of guild hall instances running.  We modified the configuration files so that only a few guild hall instances will run on a single server.  Kirstie pushed the change a few minutes ago and we should start seeing relief very soon since this change doesn't require the servers come down.  Any existing guild hall instances will stay on the servers they are currently running on, but any new ones will spawn on new hardware.Hopefully this will resolve the degraded performance you guys have noticed over the past few days.Foollsfolly,We had not considered putting a cap on the # of unique items as a way to keep people from shooting themselves in the foot, but that is always something we could consider in the future.  However, this doesn't resolve the fact that more items in a house will affect performance in many other ways.  So we are still taking the "wait and see" approach before we make any changes to item limits.

Yarginis
10-14-2008, 10:02 PM
<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>All house items are loaded by the server when the zone comes up.  But they aren't all sent to the client when you zone in.  The server only sends objects to the client that are within proximity of your character.  The items communicated to you by the server has a lot to do with the number of items around you and your performance settings.  In denser areas, the server will hit a cap and stop sending you items, so you might not see things further away even though you know they are there.  In sparsely populated areas, you'll see things much further away unless you client decides not to render them based on performance settings.There are lots of different factors in determining whether an item is rendered or not.  Here's a post I made about getting the most out of these settings.</blockquote>Would it be possible to adjust this so if you go through a teleporter it sends a quick render all message for items in the area before teleporting you through? I've had issues with building new rooms into the sky in the t3 halls (Qeynos 2 be specific) and everything renders black and you fall through the ground to a lower part of the guildhall unless you first move your caharacter to a section of the hal close to that location and  "stare up" at it for a few seconds before teleporting to make the game render it.

Rothgar
10-14-2008, 10:12 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>All house items are loaded by the server when the zone comes up.  But they aren't all sent to the client when you zone in.  The server only sends objects to the client that are within proximity of your character.  The items communicated to you by the server has a lot to do with the number of items around you and your performance settings.  In denser areas, the server will hit a cap and stop sending you items, so you might not see things further away even though you know they are there.  In sparsely populated areas, you'll see things much further away unless you client decides not to render them based on performance settings.There are lots of different factors in determining whether an item is rendered or not.  Here's a post I made about getting the most out of these settings.</blockquote>Would it be possible to adjust this so if you go through a teleporter it sends a quick render all message for items in the area before teleporting you through? I've had issues with building new rooms into the sky in the t3 halls (Qeynos 2 be specific) and everything renders black and you fall through the ground to a lower part of the guildhall unless you first move your caharacter to a section of the hal close to that location and  "stare up" at it for a few seconds before teleporting to make the game render it.</blockquote>Yes, its called the zoning screen.  The reason we show the zoning screen while you move between zones is so your client can fully load the geometry and other objects before it puts you in the world.We decided to do a 'fast teleport' in the guild halls so you don't have to see a zoning screen when you use the teleporter.  But if items not loading fast enough is a big problem and people would rather see a zoning screen while their client loads everything we could always change it.  However I would expect people would be pretty split down the middle on this idea.(Waits for someone to suggest making it an option)   :p

Grong
10-14-2008, 10:37 PM
Could you make it an option?

Daedalus Raistlin
10-14-2008, 11:10 PM
Well not everyone needs it enabled. I propose the following tab in the Options page:Guild Hall Options[ ] Show Zoning Screen[ ] Show Zoning Screen while teleporting[ ] Show Zoning Screen while zoning[ ] Download all item data while zoning[ ] Render entire zone at once[ ] Disable bonus adventuring experience[ ] Don't unload textures[ ] Don't unload meshesOf course, this is just a brief outline of the options needed. But people need choice in this stuff.

Kinadin
10-15-2008, 01:09 AM
We have nearly 1500 unique items in our hall, and I have no problems loading things fast enough.  The only problem I do have are fatal collision errors that crash my game.  SO annoying.

bryldan
10-15-2008, 01:35 AM
Ya i dont know whats up with those fatal errors but since we have a dev in the thread maybe he could tell us why this error keeps hitting a lot of ppl.

Daedalus Raistlin
10-15-2008, 03:07 AM
<cite><span style="color: #ff0000;">Autenil</span> wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>cheetahinoz wrote:</cite><blockquote>this is the message i get if i stay in guild halls longer than about 10 mins.. I have updated drivers etc have tons ram blah blah."Everquest has detected an unrecoverable error and must shut down"E:liveeq2gameclientsrcproxyActor.cpp(3882):0==pPre d->fcollisionRadius >0.0f   either 0 or o at end there. </blockquote>A fix for this is in the works and will be hotfixed out soon.</blockquote>

Yimway
10-16-2008, 01:20 PM
<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Atan,You're right.  The issue you are talking about is server-related.  I wasn't implying that the number of unique house items was the cause for the server performance, I was simply trying to give some tips on how you can improve client performance by limiting the number of resources being loaded.The issue with server performance is definitely related to the number of guild hall instances running.  We modified the configuration files so that only a few guild hall instances will run on a single server.  Kirstie pushed the change a few minutes ago and we should start seeing relief very soon since this change doesn't require the servers come down.  Any existing guild hall instances will stay on the servers they are currently running on, but any new ones will spawn on new hardware.Hopefully this will resolve the degraded performance you guys have noticed over the past few days.</blockquote>Rothgar,Yes, this is MUCH better.  Tuesdays downtime forced all the zones to reset to different servers and everything is much, much better.  At this point, if adding more items only affects zone load times, I'm not totally against it.  As long as having 100 of the same item counts as 1 item on the zone load time, I see no issues with allowing 500-1000 more items.  Honestly, I'm not convinced re-using the same item saves zone-in time, but I'll have to do more experimenting with that to be certain.  It certainly appears that the client clicks off each item as part of the zoning event, which makes me suspect to unique items not affecting zone times...Regardless, thank you very much for this hotfix, hit the nail on the head!