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View Full Version : Guild Halls Permissions Issues (fix needed badly for these)


Valdaglerion
10-08-2008, 12:15 PM
<p>Guildmates do not get access permission to the guild hall be guild association. This leaves either (A) making your guild hall public access so guildies along with everyone else gets in or (B) Assigning permissions manually for every single toon in your guild (OMG).</p><p>Further we need the ability to assign guild hall permissions based on guild ranks. Currently the amenities are basically either Visitor, Friend or Trustee. For the obvious reasons I think most guilds are going to be very judicious with the Trustee rank as large amounts of plat and/or status can be lost, items removed, etc. Several amenities are more at risk than others. </p><ol><li>Harvesting depot basically has an on/off setting with no ability to limit the removal amounts, disallow removal by any means other than crafting (you can remove stack after stack of material in the depot if you have access to it).</li><li>Guild Strategist: needs 3 permission settings. (1) Who can take a flag (2) Who can call to rally (3) Who can remove a flag once placed</li><li>Hunter/Miner/Gatherer Hireling: Needs 2 settings (1) Who can send them out (2) Who can collect from them. Would be really nice to have a setting to automatically place their gathered materials in a harvesting depot if one is available in the hall.</li></ol><p>I found it odd that not every amenity has a permission with it for usage. For instance, the Fuel Merchant does but the Portal Druid does not. It would certainly be nice to have more granular control over the amenities in our guild halls.</p><p>I think another permission needs to be added to the guild halls (currently we have None, Visitor, Friend, Trustee). What I envision here is:</p><ul><li>None</li><li>Visitor</li><li>Guild Member (no ability to move items or add items to the hall. Same as visitation rights but could be used to limit access to amenities)</li><li>Guild Officer (First rank to move items in the hall, can add items to the hall)</li><li>Guild Leader (Trustee - only rank to add/remove items from the guild hall)</li></ul><p>One of the major shortcomings to the hall currently for decorators: Friends can move things around and basically everyone in the guild has to be a friend to use the amenities. This could lead to griefings as people depart guilds and should be considered for change.</p><p>On another note, the halls look really nice and the amenities were well received by all our guildies yesterday. Thanks for putting them in game, I am looking forward to their evolution.</p>

cronar
10-08-2008, 12:33 PM
<p>Your post makes me grateful that i am personal friends with everyone in my guild. I know them, i trust them. I could hand them the keys to the car and know it would be where i left it the next day.</p><p>In other responses i have made, i firmly believe that soe has better things to worry about than play control freak over people's halls.</p><p>It is up to people to build trust and reliability within their guilds. If you trust someone enough to be in your guild, then you should also trust them to do the right thing inside THEIR home.</p><p>The guild hall is not just the home of the leader and the officers, but every last member to the junior man on the totem pole.</p><p>As a guild leader, i went into my hall and set every single member and their alt for trustee access. Perhaps i am opening myself up to grief. Sure, that is a possibility, but it is the nature of my personality. Trust and respect until given reason not to.</p><p>I also set my hall to visitor default access and most of the items i set up so public visitors can use them. Why? Because i care about my community, i like to share and the hall feels much more alive with the occasional visitor.</p><p>Give trust a chance. You might just be surprised how good it feels.</p>

Errolflynn
10-08-2008, 12:36 PM
I agree completly. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />The whole guild hall permission thing is a mess currently. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

Valdaglerion
10-08-2008, 02:50 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Your post makes me grateful that i am personal friends with everyone in my guild. I know them, i trust them. I could hand them the keys to the car and know it would be where i left it the next day.</p><p>In other responses i have made, i firmly believe that soe has better things to worry about than play control freak over people's halls.</p><p>It is up to people to build trust and reliability within their guilds. If you trust someone enough to be in your guild, then you should also trust them to do the right thing inside THEIR home.</p><p>The guild hall is not just the home of the leader and the officers, but every last member to the junior man on the totem pole.</p><p>As a guild leader, i went into my hall and set every single member and their alt for trustee access. Perhaps i am opening myself up to grief. Sure, that is a possibility, but it is the nature of my personality. Trust and respect until given reason not to.</p><p>I also set my hall to visitor default access and most of the items i set up so public visitors can use them. Why? Because i care about my community, i like to share and the hall feels much more alive with the occasional visitor.</p><p>Give trust a chance. You might just be surprised how good it feels.</p></blockquote><p>I am not asking SOE to police our guild, I am asking for the tools to make responsible decisions and protect the investments of everyone in our guild. In a small guild where everyone knows your name and you know everyone your theory works well but when guilds grow and such its irresponsible to think that every person in the hundreds is as calm, cool and collected as everyone else.</p><p>How many threads have we seen about guild banks being cleaned out on the way out by some long standing member that just went postal one day?</p><p>We have a Recruit rank for people that are new to the guild. Would you give your keys to someone you just met on the street? Of course not. </p><p>And yes, we have most of our amenities set to public as well, something that will change in the near future I am sure as we have already experienced the pranks and such of random people on the server. Do we care about our community? Absolutely and we are fostering a community of players that love to play the game and have a good time but in finding those princes you do kiss frogs every now and then.</p>

Dethdlr
10-08-2008, 03:07 PM
<cite>[email protected] Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Guildmates do not get access permission to the guild hall be guild association. This leaves either (A) making your guild hall public access so guildies along with everyone else gets in or (B) Assigning permissions manually for every single toon in your guild (OMG).</p></blockquote><div>If I understand you correctly, the setting you're looking for is in the Guild window under the permissions assigned to each rank.  There are three new lines for Trustee, Friend, and Visitor access.  You can set any of your ranks to automatically have any of those so you don't have to assign them character by character.  When you first buy your guild hall, only leaders (and maybe officers) have any access at all.  Once you change that setting in the ranks, your members will automatically have their permissions based on their ranks.</div><div></div><div>I agree though that it would be nice to have more control over some of the permissions.  Especially when it comes to placing items/moving items/removing items.  Maybe a new amenity called storage closet that acts kinda like a moving crate?  Allow Friends to place items in the storage closet which trustee's could then take out and place?  Also, a setting that toggles friend's ability to move items.  Our decorator simply threatened to break the fingers of anyone that moved things without her permission and it seems to be working so far. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  We'll get by with things set the way they are but it would be nice to have a bit more control over some of them.</div>

cronar
10-08-2008, 03:11 PM
<p>When i personally look at recruits, i would leave them in recruit status and make their guild hall access limited to visitor. This lets them use most of the items but they cannot move things around or take things from the depot.</p><p>Like anything, it takes a bit of time to get to know someone and once i feel comfortable, i let them in. Sure, they can then clean the bank out and the depot. It wouldn't be the first time it has happened. </p><p>Heck, the way i look at the guild bank is that anything in there is fair game. If it is in the guild bank, anyone can walk off with it. Do i leave large chunks of money in there? Nope. That isn't about trust it is just common sense.</p>

Arathy
10-08-2008, 03:20 PM
There is another thread in the Population and Zone forum, but to summarize our discussion there.Another issue with the permission settings is that in order to use anything you must be set as a Friend.  Being a Friend allows you to use the amenities.  Unfortunately it also gives you full rights to edit/customize merchants, rename/move teleport pads, change mender and broker settings.Setting these to Trustee in order to prevent abuse just makes it so everyone not set to Trustee cannot use the amenities.The halls are great, we just need the ability to handle guild security ourselves.I would also like the ability for a person to place an item in the Hall, and not have to worry about someone picking it up and keeping it.  Example:  I have baby dragons from game launch.  I'd love to place these in the Hall, but since they are fully tradeable and non-lore anyone could simply pick it up and keep it.. and I'd never know who it was.  Maybe if the items placed by someone were moveable but could only be picked up by the person who actually placed it originally?

cronar
10-08-2008, 03:24 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>There is another thread in the Population and Zone forum, but to summarize our discussion there.Another issue with the permission settings is that in order to use anything you must be set as a Friend.  Being a Friend allows you to use the amenities.  Unfortunately it also gives you full rights to edit/customize merchants, rename/move teleport pads, change mender and broker settings.Setting these to Trustee in order to prevent abuse just makes it so everyone not set to Trustee cannot use the amenities.The halls are great, we just need the ability to handle guild security ourselves.I would also like the ability for a person to place an item in the Hall, and not have to worry about someone picking it up and keeping it.  Example:  I have baby dragons from game launch.  I'd love to place these in the Hall, but since they are fully tradeable and non-lore anyone could simply pick it up and keep it.. and I'd never know who it was.  Maybe if the items placed by someone were moveable but could only be picked up by the person who actually placed it originally?</blockquote>False. You can set an amenity to be useable by visitor.

Kendricke
10-08-2008, 03:40 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>In other responses i have made, i firmly believe that soe has better things to worry about than play control freak over people's halls.</p></blockquote><p>I don't want them to play control freak over my hall.  I want them to give me the permissions and authority levels so I can control my guild's hall myself.  Such controls wouldn't affect you and your everyone-is-friends guild, but it would be a great boon to guilds such as mine which includes 90 active members spread across 16 different time zones.</p>

Arathy
10-08-2008, 03:51 PM
<b>[email protected] wrote:</b><p><b>False. You can set an amenity to be useable by visitor.</b></p>You're right.. You can set them to Visitor.However that doesn't have anything to do with what I was bringing up.Friend/Visitor.. same issue.  They can use the amenities, and still have access to change/customize.. that is the problem. 

feldon30
10-08-2008, 05:42 PM
I already posted my opinion about a month ago when this issue came up in the Guild Hall Feedback thread and got some interesting answers from the SoE devs.

cronar
10-08-2008, 06:12 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><b>[email protected] wrote:</b> <p><b>False. You can set an amenity to be useable by visitor.</b></p>You're right.. You can set them to Visitor.However that doesn't have anything to do with what I was bringing up.Friend/Visitor.. same issue.  They can use the amenities, and still have access to change/customize.. that is the problem.  </blockquote><p>So your saying that visitor level people can change things and move them around? I'll have to test this tonight. Doesn't sound right.</p><p>@Kendricke, while i understand your desire to have a tighter control over access, it still seems disturbing that a guild leader cannot trust those who he deemed worthy of wearing his guild tag. You can have trust without having friendship, but you can also give people the chance to show you they are worthy of that trust.</p>

Kendricke
10-08-2008, 06:52 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>@Kendricke, while i understand your desire to have a tighter control over access, it still seems disturbing that a guild leader cannot trust those who he deemed worthy of wearing his guild tag. You can have trust without having friendship, but you can also give people the chance to show you they are worthy of that trust.</p></blockquote><p>It's not about trust or friendship.</p><p>I run a guild with 90 active members in it.  Those members are spread across 16 different time zones.  Though I've personally met dozens of Legionnaires over the years, and have gone so far as to have them visit my home and eat dinner at my table, that doesn't mean I would trust any of them with my life savings if they asked for it (and to be fair, I wouldn't expect them to trust me with their savings if the situation were reversed).  </p><p>Again, realize that what's being asked for here isn't some ridiculously unreasonable request.  More granular permissions should be par for the course in a current market MMO.  If you dont' want to use such complex permissions, that's entirely your right.  However, stating that no one should require such an option because you don't personally isn't exactly how I believe game design should be approached.  </p>

Rothgar
10-08-2008, 07:28 PM
Changing/customizing amenities should only be done by trustee's.  If you have found something you can change without the trustee rank, report it as a bug and we will fix it.It sounds to me from reading the OP's post that he wasn't aware of the new guild hall permissions on the guild ranks tab.  You definitely should not have to assign individiual permissions to every person in your guild.At some point in the future we hope to add another house rank between Friend and Trustee that will allow for better control over housing features.

cronar
10-08-2008, 07:45 PM
<p>Thanks Rothgar, hopefully this will put people at ease!</p>

Kendricke
10-08-2008, 08:11 PM
<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>At some point in the future we hope to add another house rank between Friend and Trustee that will allow for better control over housing features.</blockquote><p>This would be a good workaround.</p>

Pitt Hammerfi
10-08-2008, 08:11 PM
<p>Yep they need to add a "Decorator" permission so we can move items around and place them, but not remove them or be able ro remove things from vaults or guild banks.</p>

Vraeth
10-08-2008, 09:28 PM
<p>bit different from the original issue, but on the same topic...permissions</p><p>bought a guild hall, closed to public, gave visitor access to individuals outside of the guild. most of them could enter without any problem, but one couldnt see us on the list. so couldnt even enter. and no idea why...</p>

Kaalenarc
10-09-2008, 03:57 AM
<p>The tradeskill writ giver is useable only by ppl with Friend access and has no means of allowing visitors to use it. The RoK combat writ giver has a permissions setting</p>

Valdaglerion
10-09-2008, 11:13 AM
<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Changing/customizing amenities should only be done by trustee's.  If you have found something you can change without the trustee rank, report it as a bug and we will fix it.It sounds to me from reading the OP's post that he wasn't aware of the new guild hall permissions on the guild ranks tab.  You definitely should not have to assign individiual permissions to every person in your guild.At some point in the future we hope to add another house rank between Friend and Trustee that will allow for better control over housing features.</blockquote><p>Yes, it was a custom UI issue and nothing in the game update notes about permission settings. So, at least now the default settings can be set for guildmates. I hope the alternate rank is put in sooner rather than later and the amenity permissions are looked at for more granular control.</p><p>While I can understand the eutopian society some people seem to exist in within Norrath, having someone clean out a harvesting depot can erase hundreds of man hours in harvesting which could be very morale affecting by the guild. Its a great collaborative amenity, but one that requires a little more protection seriously.</p><p>A toggle which disallows removal of items by any method other than crafting would go a long way in that respect where only trustees could remove items by accessing the depot directly and all others could add to it but could only remove by crafting...BIG improvement IMO.</p>

SilkenKidden
10-09-2008, 01:04 PM
<cite>[email protected] Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Guildmates do not get access permission to the guild hall be guild association. This leaves either (A) making your guild hall public access so guildies along with everyone else gets in or (B) Assigning permissions manually for every single toon in your guild (OMG).</p><p>Further we need the ability to assign guild hall permissions based on guild ranks. Currently the amenities are basically either Visitor, Friend or Trustee. For the obvious reasons I think most guilds are going to be very judicious with the Trustee rank as large amounts of plat and/or status can be lost, items removed, etc. Several amenities are more at risk than others. </p><ol><li>Harvesting depot basically has an on/off setting with no ability to limit the removal amounts, disallow removal by any means other than crafting (you can remove stack after stack of material in the depot if you have access to it).</li><li>Guild Strategist: needs 3 permission settings. (1) Who can take a flag (2) Who can call to rally (3) Who can remove a flag once placed</li><li>Hunter/Miner/Gatherer Hireling: Needs 2 settings (1) Who can send them out (2) Who can collect from them. Would be really nice to have a setting to automatically place their gathered materials in a harvesting depot if one is available in the hall.</li></ol><p>I found it odd that not every amenity has a permission with it for usage. For instance, the Fuel Merchant does but the Portal Druid does not. It would certainly be nice to have more granular control over the amenities in our guild halls.</p><p>I think another permission needs to be added to the guild halls (currently we have None, Visitor, Friend, Trustee). What I envision here is:</p><ul><li>None</li><li>Visitor</li><li>Guild Member (no ability to move items or add items to the hall. Same as visitation rights but could be used to limit access to amenities)</li><li>Guild Officer (First rank to move items in the hall, can add items to the hall)</li><li>Guild Leader (Trustee - only rank to add/remove items from the guild hall)</li></ul><p>One of the major shortcomings to the hall currently for decorators: Friends can move things around and basically everyone in the guild has to be a friend to use the amenities. This could lead to griefings as people depart guilds and should be considered for change.</p><p>On another note, the halls look really nice and the amenities were well received by all our guildies yesterday. Thanks for putting them in game, I am looking forward to their evolution.</p></blockquote><p>Yes.  There needs to be a way to give access to all guild members while locking out the public.  It is very off putting to go to the dock and find myself locked out.  Problem is, no trustees on now to add anyone else.  </p>

Allurana
10-09-2008, 01:22 PM
<p>Agreed, we need at LEAST one more category between Friend and Trustee.</p><p>At this point, if nothing changes SOON.  I will have to make the hard decision of not allowing visitors to our hall as a public setting because I need that permission slot to do all the permissions I need.</p><p>We need a permission setting for folks to come and look around and use just the most general of items. (Current Visitor Setting - can't move items or pick them up)</p><p>We need a permission that allows us to let people use the travel option amenities that currently have adjustable permissions i.e. druid portal (Current Friend Setting - still can't move items or pick them up)</p><p>We need an additional permissions level that allows us to set the more expensive/potentially costly/easily abused amenities i.e. harvesting supply depot, mender, etc... (Currently set to Trustee which allows people to pick things up - we need a new permission level here with NO items move or pick up abilities)</p><p>We need the trustee layer so we can have leaders and officers that can administer the guild hall items placement etc....</p><p>Here is the reasoning for the extra layer.</p><p>When we have new members join we want them to be able to use the basic services of the guild hall, transport, stable hand, etc...</p><p>We want them to prove they are trustworthy by our rank system we have put a lot of time and effort into already.  It is tough but fair.  If they are mature and trustworthy enough to progress in our rank system then we want to allow them access to the harvest supply depot, maybe a guild sponsored mender, activating the harvesting bots and be able to trust they will deposit the harvests into the supply depot, etc... WITHOUT having the ability of moving the guild hall stuff around.</p><p>Trustee layer is a no brainer.</p><p>Situation that happened today, we had a guild member that would like to put their baby dragon in the guild hall - well with such liberal pickup and move policies it is too dangerous to do it right now.</p><p>Don't even start with the "you need to trust your guild members" flaming and such.  We are an open, casual guild with a very established - well thought out rank system.</p><p>SOE you created a MASSIVELY customizable banking permissions system, what happened here?  We don't need that level of detail but these amenities and guild hall house items have a potential for abuse, fraud and theft due to the very small amounts of permission options that the old house system had and really only needed.</p>

Ventisly
10-09-2008, 02:34 PM
<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Changing/customizing amenities should only be done by trustee's. If you have found something you can change without the trustee rank, report it as a bug and we will fix it.It sounds to me from reading the OP's post that he wasn't aware of the new guild hall permissions on the guild ranks tab. You definitely should not have to assign individiual permissions to every person in your guild.At some point in the future we hope to add another house rank between Friend and Trustee that will allow for better control over housing features.</blockquote>So being able to change position and size on furniture and NPCs as Friend, should that be bugged?  Cause if that was the only change made I and I think most others would be 99% happy with the guild hall access rights.A new level would be nice and several others have posted good summaries of what the different rights need to be (i.e. place but not remove) but the fact that anyone in my guild can come in and move stuff around is quite disconcerting given the effort being put into decorating.

Allie
10-09-2008, 05:57 PM
How can u set the amenities to visitor use, I am sure I have seen it before but can't find it anymore. At the moment it seems people with visitor permission can use them but not all of them, which isn't really good.I agree with the things said, we need more ranks. Also I have to give permission to people outside the guild from the inside and from the outside? Is there any difference?Another thing I would like to add, Call of the Guildhall, if you give your alts visitor access or maybe a special alt access, they should be able to use the Call of the guild hall. At the moment the whole thing doesnt make sense for guilds like us. We don't ahve alts in the main guild so we cant have our alts there, how should a crafter lvl 5 adventure run from Quenos to Freeport every time?Or just let the main guild somehow give the alt guild access, I dunno, but for crafting and meeting up with alts it sucks, sorry there should be an option for it.Edit: Also I am missing the option to set different prices for guildies on the broker, maybe I am just blind <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

feldon30
10-09-2008, 06:21 PM
<cite>[email protected] Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Guildmates do not get access permission to the guild hall be guild association. This leaves either (A) making your guild hall public access so guildies along with everyone else gets in or (B) Assigning permissions manually for every single toon in your guild (OMG).</p></blockquote>I think you may have missed the Guild Hall: Visitor, Guild Hall: Friend, and Guild Hall: Trustee settings which can be assigned by Guild Rank in the Ranks tab of the Guild window.Yes, it is frustrating that there are only 3 levels of access (4 if you make your Guild Hall not visible to Visitors, then it's NONE, Visitor, Friend, and Trustee). But your post makes it sound like you think there is only 1 level of access and that is not true.

Allie
10-09-2008, 08:17 PM
Testing around with it at the moment and there is defo need for an urgent fix about the permissions. You can use some amenities with visitor access but not all, and giving friend access so everyone can move around stuff is not really an option.Hopefully this will be fixed very soon.

Baccalarium
10-09-2008, 10:09 PM
After you set the access level for the amenty make sure to press the "set" button or it doesn't stick.We have ameneties that have visitor access and visitors have been asked to try them and they worked.   We also have ameneties that have been set to friend access and once we set the approrpiate ranks to have friend access they were able to use them.   Previously when those ranks had visitor access they were unable to use those ameneties.There are some ameneties that don't allow you to set the permission for them.    But none of those seemed to be on anything that would put guild resources at risk if visitors did have access.I would like a setting where people could place items but not change settings, and a better description in hover text or such of what the general visitor/friend/trustee access levels give.

Tallisman
10-10-2008, 07:36 AM
Hiya,I recently joined a guild so I'm currently at the lowest rank. It seems I can use some but not all amenities; for instance, I can guild recall without hitch but, when I try to use the players-home portal, it says I can't use it.  How does that work? If you set the rank per amenity, why do some have different "access rights" to others? Perhaps I'm just being dense but I can't figure this out!Cheers!

Allie
10-10-2008, 07:36 AM
OK with setting everything to visitor they still do not have access to the Mailbox, but I guess that's gonna be fixed soon. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

Lishara
10-10-2008, 10:22 AM
What's the difference between friend and visitor?  Our guild page defaulted the lowest ranks to friend and th middle ranks to visitor.  If friend is better access than visitor than what's the deal with that?We were also having issues with people with the same ranks not being able to donate to the escrow balance while others could.  Shouldn't everyone who is a member of the guild be able to donate?  (For instance you might set your guild up to have the lower ranks only gain ranks when they've achieved a certain donation level.  Not what we're doing, but it makes sense to me)

Tuddaan
10-10-2008, 11:38 AM
<p>It is good to see that a good amount of folks see the same problem that I see.   I posted in another forum here about this subject.</p><p>Trusting guild members to do right is one thing, but if your a large guild you can never make everyone happy.  We have over 100+ accounts and with the permissions set the way they are that is 100+ folks that can move items.  Yes they may not be able to pick them up, but move, shrink, etc., can cause major upsets.  I want all my members to have access to all the amenities from the leaders down to the lowliest recruit.  But all it takes is 1 person to screw it for all of us.  </p><p><b>PLEASE LOOK INTO THIS SOONER, RATHER THAN LATER...THIS NEEDS TO ADDRESSED AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. </b></p>

Arathy
10-10-2008, 04:28 PM
<cite>[email protected] Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Guildmates do not get access permission to the guild hall be guild association. This leaves either (A) making your guild hall public access so guildies along with everyone else gets in or (B) Assigning permissions manually for every single toon in your guild (OMG).</p><p>Further we need the ability to assign guild hall permissions based on guild ranks. Currently the amenities are basically either Visitor, Friend or Trustee. For the obvious reasons I think most guilds are going to be very judicious with the Trustee rank as large amounts of plat and/or status can be lost, items removed, etc. Several amenities are more at risk than others. </p><ol><li>Harvesting depot basically has an on/off setting with no ability to limit the removal amounts, disallow removal by any means other than crafting (you can remove stack after stack of material in the depot if you have access to it).</li><li><b><span style="font-size: medium;">Guild Strategist: needs 3 permission settings. (1) Who can take a flag (2) Who can call to rally (3) Who can remove a flag once placed</span></b></li><li>Hunter/Miner/Gatherer Hireling: Needs 2 settings (1) Who can send them out (2) Who can collect from them. Would be really nice to have a setting to automatically place their gathered materials in a harvesting depot if one is available in the hall.</li></ol><p>I found it odd that not every amenity has a permission with it for usage. For instance, the Fuel Merchant does but the Portal Druid does not. It would certainly be nice to have more granular control over the amenities in our guild halls.</p><p>I think another permission needs to be added to the guild halls (currently we have None, Visitor, Friend, Trustee). What I envision here is:</p><ul><li>None</li><li>Visitor</li><li>Guild Member (no ability to move items or add items to the hall. Same as visitation rights but could be used to limit access to amenities)</li><li>Guild Officer (First rank to move items in the hall, can add items to the hall)</li><li>Guild Leader (Trustee - only rank to add/remove items from the guild hall)</li></ul><p>One of the major shortcomings to the hall currently for decorators: Friends can move things around and basically everyone in the guild has to be a friend to use the amenities. This could lead to griefings as people depart guilds and should be considered for change.</p><p>On another note, the halls look really nice and the amenities were well received by all our guildies yesterday. Thanks for putting them in game, I am looking forward to their evolution.</p></blockquote>This is VERY needed.  Just the other night I ran down to just outside Venril Sathir's door and planted the flag.  Half the guild came through.  One person misclicked and ended up destroying the flag, which resulted in me having to call back to the Hall, get another flag and make the run down all over again.More permissions for this specific amenity would be amazing.

Kendricke
10-10-2008, 07:08 PM
<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Changing/customizing amenities should only be done by trustee's.  If you have found something you can change without the trustee rank, report it as a bug and we will fix it.It sounds to me from reading the OP's post that he wasn't aware of the new guild hall permissions on the guild ranks tab.  You definitely should not have to assign individiual permissions to every person in your guild.At some point in the future we hope to add another house rank between Friend and Trustee that will allow for better control over housing features.</blockquote><p>The more I think on this, the more I realize it's not actually a solution at all.  The problem right now isn't that a rank needs to exist between Friend and Trustee.  The problem is that there is no rank between Visitor and Friend.</p><p>I want a system that allows my members to use amenities without the ability to move or customize them.  Our decorators are putting in a lot of effort to make sure the rooms are set up just the way they want.  All it takes is one person (out of a 90 account guild) to even accidently move a few items around and suddenly we've got quite a bit of work on our hands to fix the issue.  Frankly, the average member in my guild simply does not need "move" or "customize" access to any of the items in our hall - they just need to be able to use the items that are there.  Unfortunately, the only way that level of access currently exists is through the Visitor level...which means I have to set all of our amenities to Visitor level as well.  Normally, this wouldn't be a problem...unless you also want to allow non-guild members to be able to visit your guild hall without being able to access your amenities.  You can't have it both ways - either you give your members the right to move and customize, or you give the public the same rights as your members (or you shut them out entirely).  </p><p>NO CURRENT METHOD EXISTS to allow guildmasters to give amenity access to their members without also giving move and customize access to those amenities AND to allow for non-guilded members to freely visit without also giving them the same rights you're giving your own members.  The suggested solution which Rothgar is proposing won't fix this issue, either.</p><p>Right now, officers retain Friends access in my guild, while the rest of the membership retains Visitor access.  However, this means we've had to shut our guild hall from the public.  Adding a rank between Friend and Trustee won't help...because any level that grants access to move or customize items in the hall will not be available to my average member, anyway - so we end up with another rank, but the same situation we're in right now.  </p>

Allie
10-10-2008, 09:20 PM
Where is the option to set special prices on broker for guildies? Anyone found that yet or isn't it implemented? :o)

Baccalarium
10-10-2008, 09:27 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>Where is the option to set special prices on broker for guildies? Anyone found that yet or isn't it implemented? :o)</blockquote>It appears that the guild only broker is not implemented yet.

Rothgar
10-10-2008, 11:41 PM
<cite>Kendricke wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Changing/customizing amenities should only be done by trustee's.  If you have found something you can change without the trustee rank, report it as a bug and we will fix it.It sounds to me from reading the OP's post that he wasn't aware of the new guild hall permissions on the guild ranks tab.  You definitely should not have to assign individiual permissions to every person in your guild.At some point in the future we hope to add another house rank between Friend and Trustee that will allow for better control over housing features.</blockquote><p>The more I think on this, the more I realize it's not actually a solution at all.  The problem right now isn't that a rank needs to exist between Friend and Trustee.  The problem is that there is no rank between Visitor and Friend.</p><p>I want a system that allows my members to use amenities without the ability to move or customize them.  Our decorators are putting in a lot of effort to make sure the rooms are set up just the way they want.  All it takes is one person (out of a 90 account guild) to even accidently move a few items around and suddenly we've g6ot quite a bit of work on our hands to fix the issue.  Frankly, the average member in my guild simply does not need "move" or "customize" access to any of the items in our hall - they just need to be able to use the items that are there.  Unfortunately, the only way that level of access currently exists is through the Visitor level...which means I have to set all of our amenities to Visitor level as well.  Normally, this wouldn't be a problem...unless you also want to allow non-guild members to be able to visit your guild hall without being able to access your amenities.  You can't have it both ways - either you give your members the right to move and customize, or you give the public the same rights as your members (or you shut them out entirely).  </p><p>NO CURRENT METHOD EXISTS to allow guildmasters to give amenity access to their members without also giving move and customize access to those amenities AND to allow for non-guilded members to freely visit without also giving them the same rights you're giving your own members.  The suggested solution which Rothgar is proposing won't fix this issue, either.</p><p>Right now, officers retain Friends access in my guild, while the rest of the membership retains Visitor access.  However, this means we've had to shut our guild hall from the public.  Adding a rank between Friend and Trustee won't help...because any level that grants access to move or customize items in the hall will not be available to my average member, anyway - so we end up with another rank, but the same situation we're in right now.  </p></blockquote>I guess what I failed to mention, and wasn't so obvious, is that in addition to adding a new access level, we will look at adjusting which levels can do what.  So just because we add the level between Friend and Trustee doesnt mean that Friend will continue to have the ability to move furniture.  If I can compare houses in-game to real life, this is how I think it makes sense.Someone who comes over to your house to visit that you don't consider a friend really shouldnt be able to do anything unless you tell them its ok.  If a person you barely know walks into your house and then decides to go to the kitchen and make a snack, you'd think it were rather odd.  But if you tell them its ok, they should be able to do it.You invite friend's over to your house, but you would think it was odd if they started moving furniture things around.  However, you don't mind if they go to the fridge and grab themselves a drink.A steward is someone you who works for the owner of a house.  He would have access to move things around and probably place items, but you would think it odd if a butler or maid walked out of your house with a chair.A trustee would be like a member of your family.  They have the ability to do anything you would do in a house.Nothing is set in stone yet and we have no specific date when we can add the additional rank.  But this explanation seems like a logical way to go.

Firecracker
10-11-2008, 01:44 AM
<p>Is "steward' going to be the name of this rank? I not really thinking that is what I would want to call it. I would weather maybe call it a 'Trusted Friend' for a trusted friend is someone who feels comfortable enough to go your house and help themselves to a drink wheres a friend is someone who you can call friend but not know your whole life story.</p><p>'Friend' access should be changed to have access to use amenties but not move or change anything within guild and assuming this access effects houses then a friend can use items in your house but not move things around as 'Trusted Friend' can?. I would want a 'Trusted Friend' to be someone who have more rank in a guild to change amenties around to even moving furniture around is the rank I would be wanting here if that makes sense. Someone between Trustee access to Friend access. Steward is kind of lower rank then just 'Friend' with the way your descibing it as being someone who you can only move furniture around? But if your wanting to add 2 more ranks in the way how access works then steward can be someone who new to the guild that can use bankers, menders,writs npc, brokers, tradeskill tables, and bells?</p><p>anyways my thoughts on this new rank 'name'. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

Estean1
10-11-2008, 03:39 AM
<p>Perfect example of the need for a new rank.  I made a custom lifesize chessboard for our guild hall.  Our guild has around 100 accounts.   Someone in our guild was playing around with the chess pieces and accidentally moved one of the tables which is what the board it actually made of.  It was one of the tables in the middle of the board.  This meant I had to pull up all the carpet..  and rearrange every table to get it back where I needed it.  It took me 2 hours for an honest mistake. </p><p>I trust my guildies, and I think they did an amazing job at getting a tier 3 guild hall with all the amenities, but I don't feel like I have been given the tools to effectively manage it.  It really simple - make a rank that can use amenities but can't move or customize items in the house without having to give up the "visitor" rank.  I would love even more customization but this one is the most important. </p><p>Also put a confirm button on the upkeep button.  I accidentally paid it the first day it was out and one of our other officers accidentally did it today!  And yes make it so that a "friend" can't click on the flag and reset the guild strategist. This happened to us too.  </p><p>BTW huge kudos to dev's for the guild halls. Our guild has been enjoying ours immenselly. Great job! </p>

Allie
10-11-2008, 05:00 AM
The 2 problems here are:Trustee: Guild Designer need thia rank to design the guild hall, which means they could change/buy Amenities and they need to give everyone that access who just want to dump stuff into the guld hallFriend: Can move things aroundI don't knowwhat problem you have with the Amenities, you can give most of the Amenities a certain access. That's fine as it is, the Strategist would need a few more settings as mentioned.The Mailbox needs to be usuable by every rank or should be able to be setup to a certain rank.Ranks we need:Visitor: Like it is now, cannot move stuff around, pickup or drop things into the guild hall, but you can give every Amenity Visitor Access if you want toFriend: Should be the same as visitor, cannot move stuff around etc, but you can give your Amenities Friend Access and open your Guild Hall for visitors, visitors wont be allowed to use certain Amenities thenGuild Hall Designer: These rank can drop stuff into the guild hall, pick it up and move it around, but cannot give other people acccess, change/buy amenities and stuff like this.Trustee: Just like it is, full accessSo basically what you said Rothgar, except your steward (my Designer) needs to pick up things as you cant expect them to run around the guild hall moving things, they must have the ability to pick them up and place them somewhere else.And this fix can't be hard to implement, please do this asap <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Vonotar
10-11-2008, 08:44 AM
Rothgar, you will never please all people with any singular solution.  So what is needed is the flexibility for people to set up their own arrangements.Take a look at the existing ranks and list what each one givesAbility to view/use itemsAbility to move itemsAbility to pick upAbility to place itemsAbility to ... you get the ideaScrap the current Trustee / Friend / Visitor access rights FOR GUILD HALLS (not normal houses obviously) and remove  the "Guild Hall Access:..." options from the 'Rank/Permissions' tab of the Guild Control Panel and instead list all the above items individually.Add an additional column to the right of the lowest actual rank which will represent Guild Hall Visitors.  The Guild Leaders can then assign whatever combination of accesses they want to individual ranks and the generic 'visitors' rank.THEN to replace trustee/friend/visitor on the 'Guild House Door' access tab, add the ability to give a non-guildie access rights based on Guild Rank.  i.e. instead of assigning non-guildies to visitor/friend/trustee you assign them to one of your ranks (or just the 'visitor' rank).  The non-guildies rights would be restricted to just those applicable to the guild hall for that rank.With this, a trusted decorator could be temporarily given a 'guild rank' that allows moving/placing items etc.  Individuals who are 'associates'* of the guild, but not in the guild could be given access to guild facilities equivalent to actual guild ranks.Amenities would also then be based on Guild Rank (+Visitor) access levels, each Amenity that currently has the option to be restricted would have the option to set the minimum 'Guild Rank' required to use them, thats nine possible layers (including the 'Visitor' rank) much better than the current Visitor/Friend/Trustee.It's the most comprehensive solution, and makes good use out of the existing permissions system.*e.g. ex-guildies who started a splinter group (on good terms), guild members/leaders of allied guilds, members of a raid only guild that treats your guild as it's 'parent', unguilded Qeynosian spies if your a Freeport PvP guild etc etc(edited cos I never make full sense first time around)

Allie
10-11-2008, 10:15 AM
Hehe yar was thinking of that too, but I am afraid that would take them even more time to put something in place <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Oh and access from Guildtool would be nice, so we can set the access by pressing /u instead of having to go to the door.

Vonotar
10-11-2008, 10:25 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hehe yar was thinking of that too, but I am afraid that would take them even more time to put something in place <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Oh and access from Guildtool would be nice, so we can set the access by pressing /u instead of having to go to the door.</blockquote>/house works from anywhere within the guild halls (or any house for that matter)  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

TREiBER666
10-11-2008, 11:32 AM
The problem is ...You can set everyone to trustee, so that members can build up the hall. But it's the same problem with account sharing. Someone's Girlfriend is upset, walks into the guildhall with her friends account, collects all items (1500+), destroys all Lore/NoTrades and then deletes this account. OH NOEZ ! ... Good luck, a lot of petitions incoming. And now ? How many hours does a GM need to restore a lvl 80 Tier3 1500 item GuildHall ?! Just read this <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=411660" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=411660</a> and think again if you want to set everyone in your guild to trustee.<i><b>Greeblen wrote:</b></i><p><b> As for this specific issue, when CS receives a petition from someone that has had their account compromised and is missing all their hard earned coin, items, etc, we do our very best to assist with restoring characters and guild banks back to the way they were before they were accessed maliciously and then we go after the culprit. <u>These investigations can take a significant amount time to do and we cannot guarantee that we can return you back to the exact point you were before this happened.</u> These types of issues also take time away from answering customer petitions for other important issues involving bugged quests, items, etc.</b></p><p><b></b></p><p>What if it's not just the hard earned coins/items of an account plus maybe the GuildBank. What if a hole tier3 Guildhall was robbed ? What will SOE do if a normal member collects n' sells or destroys 1500 items from a Guildhall ? If a leader then writes a petition will the guild get their items restored or will they get an answer like this <i>"Sorry, but we can't do anything. If you give a player the right to collect and sell (all) items it is legitimate to do that. This is wether illegal nor wrong, because you allowed him to do it."</i></p>In my opinion this needs to be fixed ...

Deceiv
10-11-2008, 05:17 PM
<cite>Magnamundian wr</cite><blockquote>Rothgar, you will never please all people with any singular solution.  So what is needed is the flexibility for people to set up their own arrangements.Take a look at the existing ranks and list what each one givesAbility to view/use itemsAbility to move itemsAbility to pick upAbility to place itemsAbility to ... you get the ideaScrap the current Trustee / Friend / Visitor access rights FOR GUILD HALLS (not normal houses obviously) and remove  the "Guild Hall Access:..." options from the 'Rank/Permissions' tab of the Guild Control Panel and instead list all the above items individually.Add an additional column to the right of the lowest actual rank which will represent Guild Hall Visitors.  The Guild Leaders can then assign whatever combination of accesses they want to individual ranks and the generic 'visitors' rank.THEN to replace trustee/friend/visitor on the 'Guild House Door' access tab, add the ability to give a non-guildie access rights based on Guild Rank.  i.e. instead of assigning non-guildies to visitor/friend/trustee you assign them to one of your ranks (or just the 'visitor' rank).  The non-guildies rights would be restricted to just those applicable to the guild hall for that rank.With this, a trusted decorator could be temporarily given a 'guild rank' that allows moving/placing items etc.  Individuals who are 'associates'* of the guild, but not in the guild could be given access to guild facilities equivalent to actual guild ranks.Amenities would also then be based on Guild Rank (+Visitor) access levels, each Amenity that currently has the option to be restricted would have the option to set the minimum 'Guild Rank' required to use them, thats nine possible layers (including the 'Visitor' rank) much better than the current Visitor/Friend/Trustee.It's the most comprehensive solution, and makes good use out of the existing permissions system.*e.g. ex-guildies who started a splinter group (on good terms), guild members/leaders of allied guilds, members of a raid only guild that treats your guild as it's 'parent', unguilded Qeynosian spies if your a Freeport PvP guild etc etc(edited cos I never make full sense first time around)</blockquote>     Wrong Quote...

Deceiv
10-11-2008, 05:26 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>The 2 problems here are:Trustee: Guild Designer need thia rank to design the guild hall, which means they could change/buy Amenities and they need to give everyone that access who just want to dump stuff into the guld hallFriend: Can move things aroundI don't knowwhat problem you have with the Amenities, you can give most of the Amenities a certain access. That's fine as it is, the Strategist would need a few more settings as mentioned.The Mailbox needs to be usuable by every rank or should be able to be setup to a certain rank.Ranks we need:Visitor: Like it is now, cannot move stuff around, pickup or drop things into the guild hall, but you can give every Amenity Visitor Access if you want toFriend: Should be the same as visitor, cannot move stuff around etc, but you can give your Amenities Friend Access and open your Guild Hall for visitors, visitors wont be allowed to use certain Amenities thenGuild Hall Designer: These rank can drop stuff into the guild hall, pick it up and move it around, but cannot give other people acccess, change/buy amenities and stuff like this.Trustee: Just like it is, full accessSo basically what you said Rothgar, except your steward (my Designer) needs to pick up things as you cant expect them to run around the guild hall moving things, they must have the ability to pick them up and place them somewhere else.And this fix can't be hard to implement, please do this asap <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote><p>       I agree with this. I should not have to give trustee rank to guildys just so they can place items in the guild hall.</p>

TREiBER666
10-12-2008, 02:59 AM
<u><i><b>Should be like this:</b></i></u><b>Visitor:</b> Like it is now, cannot move stuff around, pickup or drop things into the guild hall, but you can give every Amenity Visitor Access if you want to<p><b>Friend</b>: Should be the same as visitor, cannot move stuff around etc, but you can give your Amenities Friend Access and open your Guild Hall for visitors, visitors wont be allowed to use certain Amenities then</p><p><b>Designer</b>: These rank can drop stuff into the guild hall, pick it up and move it around, but cannot give other people acccess, change/buy amenities and stuff like this. <i><b>HE ONLY CAN PICKUP HIS ITEMS WITHIN THE LAST 24 HOURS AFTER HE HAS PLACED IT. HE CANNOT DETROY ITEMS.</b></i></p><p><b>Officier/Manager:</b> he can place, drop, move, destroy, pickup items and can change/buy amenties - but cannot give other people access.</p><p><b>Trustee:</b> Just like it is, full access</p><b></b>

Rothgar
10-12-2008, 06:20 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>And this fix can't be hard to implement, please do this asap <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote>This comment made me LOL.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Not hard, but time consuming and prone to bugs so it needs to be tested carefully.

Allie
10-12-2008, 06:25 AM
<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>And this fix can't be hard to implement, please do this asap <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote>This comment made me LOL.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Not hard, but time consuming and prone to bugs so it needs to be tested carefully.</blockquote>Hehe hush then go back to work <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />No seriously, it is really annoying with those ranks and that visitors cannot use the mailbox, why shouldnt a visitor be able to send mail? Makes no sense as they place flags for raids and empty our harvest depot.And yar the flexible ranks would be great but I guess that would be too much for a quick patch <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Allie
10-12-2008, 06:27 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><u><i><b>Should be like this:</b></i></u><b>Visitor:</b> Like it is now, cannot move stuff around, pickup or drop things into the guild hall, but you can give every Amenity Visitor Access if you want to<p><b>Friend</b>: Should be the same as visitor, cannot move stuff around etc, but you can give your Amenities Friend Access and open your Guild Hall for visitors, visitors wont be allowed to use certain Amenities then</p><p><b>Designer</b>: These rank can drop stuff into the guild hall, pick it up and move it around, but cannot give other people acccess, change/buy amenities and stuff like this. <i><b>HE ONLY CAN PICKUP HIS ITEMS WITHIN THE LAST 24 HOURS AFTER HE HAS PLACED IT. HE CANNOT DETROY ITEMS.</b></i></p><p><b>Officier/Manager:</b> he can place, drop, move, destroy, pickup items and can change/buy amenties - but cannot give other people access.</p><p><b>Trustee:</b> Just like it is, full access</p><b></b></blockquote>What I said ... except the officer, if you let someone change/buy amenities then this person can also give other people access, no need for another rank. And the 24 hours is silly, designers must be able to design and change stuff every day and pick items up they placing even after a few days.

Baccalarium
10-12-2008, 10:04 AM
Oh and it appears that some folks have already discovered the need to have a log for who has picked up items and removed them from the hall.    <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Bookbunny
10-12-2008, 12:06 PM
<p>I would prefer if Visitors from outside the guild could not tap the party keg.</p><p>I also heard in chat that visitors can zone in and use the travel bells but have not confirmed personally - IMO this should not be allowed as visitors did nothing to pay for that amenity and should be atleast a Friend to use them or be grouped with a guildie much like the sokokar post in Chardok.</p>

Allie
10-12-2008, 06:43 PM
Should also set the harvest depot on different options, people can use stuff for crafting but not take stuff out from the box directly or dump their lvl 1 cabbage in it (for ex) LOLSo for amenities:Mailbox should be usable by visitorsGuild Strategist and Harvest Depot need more flexible rank optionsOh and the Hirelings should give u the stuff in one go, not node by node <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />See what else we can find :o)

Tuddaan
10-13-2008, 11:05 AM
<p>I know over time these things will be worked out.  Wheather by adding another level of permissions or not.  </p><p>But we don't have the time to wait (even though we may have to).  Simple and quick solution while we wait for the added level of permissions is to <b>JUST TAKE THE ABILITY TO MOVE ITEMS AWAY FROM THE FRIEND SLOT.  </b>Then take your time fixing the problem correctly.  We have already had to redo things because of folks on a whim moving things and then not being able to replace as before (ex. Fish Tank).</p><p>That is all we want while other things ar resolved.  90% of these compaints will go away if that happens.</p>

Finora
10-13-2008, 11:31 AM
<p>I've sent feedback on the permissions issues. One of the most ridiculous ones I've noticed is the friend access level. It just makes no sense to me for them to be able to move things around, but not put anything down. It would make more sense the other way around. We have guild mates who want to donate items for the guild hall but have zero desire to try to decorate,  yet we have to make them trustees for at least long enough for them to put stuff down. But they could move everything around if they got a bug up their butt (or terribly drunk & bored one night). </p><p>I'd never noticed this before because the only people's homes I have access to are people who've made me trustee, so I've never dealt with anything other than trustee or visitor status in housing.</p><p>I love my guild mates. I've been guilded with many of them for up to 9 years. I've met & know many in real life (I'm married to one even). I know some of these folks well enough that, yeah I don't want friend's  access to be able to move stuff. They'd not do it out of malice, but they'd think it was funny. Already had people making the broker a dwarf & sticking her in a box behind the counter. </p>

Mikkahl
10-13-2008, 09:40 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>No seriously, it is really annoying with those ranks and that visitors cannot use the mailbox, why shouldnt a visitor be able to send mail? Makes no sense as they place flags for raids and empty our harvest depot.</blockquote>I believe the GH mailbox is just a larger version of the house mailbox you can buy from the city merchant.  That only allows access to Friends or higher, so the GH mailbox inherited this behavior.  I think it should be changed to Visitor for both.

Mikkahl
10-13-2008, 09:45 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote</cite> <blockquote>What if it's not just the hard earned coins/items of an account plus maybe the GuildBank. What if a hole tier3 Guildhall was robbed ? What will SOE do if a normal member collects n' sells or destroys 1500 items from a Guildhall ? </blockquote>It is not likely that anyone could pick up all 1500 items from a guild hall, because many of them will be No-Trade.  And, so far as I have been able to tell, NOBODY but the original owner can pickup a No-Trade item, NOT EVEN THE GUILD LEADER!  So this is actually a different problem, not mentioned in this thread, but discussed repeatedly in the In-Testing forum.  We need the item list for the house to tell us who placed a No-Trade item (so we can ask them to remove it if necessary), AND we need to at least the guild leader to be able to pickup or destroy any No-Trade item, in case the original owner is no longer in the guild (or the game).

Mikkahl
10-13-2008, 09:57 PM
<cite>Bookbunny wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I would prefer if Visitors from outside the guild could not tap the party keg.</p><p>I also heard in chat that visitors can zone in and use the travel bells but have not confirmed personally - IMO this should not be allowed as visitors did nothing to pay for that amenity and should be atleast a Friend to use them or be grouped with a guildie much like the sokokar post in Chardok.</p></blockquote><p>And we have just the opposite attitude.  We want our guild hall to be open to visitors, and allow them to use whatever amenities don't cost us anything to USE.  We are already paying upkeep for them, for our members to use, so what the heck!  It is a great way to meet new players and new guilds, and our guildies tend to make a good impression on people!</p><p>Some amenites allow Visitor access and can't be changed.  The last time I checked, these were: Banker, Broker, Teleportation Spire, all Mariner's bells and Magic Carpet, and even the Translocation Beacon.  (I guess the latter still gives CoGH to Visitors, but the call would take them to their own guild hall, not ours?)</p><p>For some reason, the Druid ring doesn't fit this pattern, and has a settable access level, as do the Local GH teleporter pads, Portal to Member House, Fuel Merchant, all writ agents, and Commodities Exporter.  And we have set all those to Visitor access as well, for the same reasons I mentioned above.  Even the Mender we opened to Visitor, because it is NOT set to have repairs paid out of escrow.  If you used that feature, obviously you would not want to make that available to Visitor.</p><p>We reserve these for Friends access (guild rank 3 or higher);  Depot, strategist, mannequin, harvesters.  But I very much agree that Friends should NOT be able to move stuff around.  And the Strategist should allow Visitors to jump to the flag location (so we can invite non-guildies to our raids), but not be able to move or reset the flag location - only Friends (or maybe Trustees or "Trusted Friends&quot<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</p>

Mikkahl
10-13-2008, 10:02 PM
<cite>Kendricke wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I want a system that allows my members to use amenities without the ability to move or customize them.  Our decorators are putting in a lot of effort to make sure the rooms are set up just the way they want.  All it takes is one person (out of a 90 account guild) to even accidently move a few items around and suddenly we've got quite a bit of work on our hands to fix the issue.  Frankly, the average member in my guild simply does not need "move" or "customize" access to any of the items in our hall - they just need to be able to use the items that are there.   . . .NO CURRENT METHOD EXISTS to allow guildmasters to give amenity access to their members without also giving move and customize access to those amenities . . . </p></blockquote>If by "Customize" you mean the right-click Customize menu on NPCs, that allows you to change their race, gender, name, and uniform, that is only available to Trustees anyway.  Friends can move and resize anything (including the NPCs), and I agree that is very bad, but they can't Customize. 

Allie
10-14-2008, 08:24 AM
The harvesting Hirelings have been fixed, they give u stacks now not single items node by node. Didn't check the Mailbox yet, any other changes yesterday?The more I read here the better I think would be customizable ranks, as each guilds seems to prefer different setups.

Catria
10-14-2008, 11:15 AM
<p>There's been a lot of discussion on this topic which I have been following while I am setting up our guild hall.  I haven't really seen anyone mention that access permissions should be based on guild rank as a means of giving incentive to members to help further the guild/be promoted, especially given the cost of upkeep of amenities.  If someone in the guild is slacking off and not helping by donating plat/status to upkeep, why should I allow them to use everything?  That's just not fair to the people who are grinding writs to help out.</p><p>I fully agree with the problems noted above about access.  I have literally spent dozens of hours already painstakingly placing items in our guild hall, and I don't want to see my hard work destroyed either by accident or intent.  I also want to be able to let people donate items to decorate without messing up what's already there.</p><p>As a side note, I would also love to see an option added to house items to lock/unlock them.  Too many times hours of work have gone down the drain by accidentally moving one piece at the bottom/back of an elaborate arrangement.  This would prevent that.  </p><p>I think the access rights would be best handled by adding specific permissions to the <u>guild</u> ranks for each amenity as well as being able to set a default access level for each amenity.  I want to be able to make promotions meaningful by allowing greater access to amenities and such as members rise in rank.  I also want to be able to decide what amenities visitors and friends can use or not.  </p><p>Changing the ranking system is needed, I definitely agree with that, but unless you allow us to set the permissions of ALL amenities it's not really going to solve the problem.  </p><p>Adding each amenity to the guild rank permissions list (let us decide for ourselves which ranks can use what), adding another level of rank to hall access and revamping them as Rothgar outlined, and making it possible for us to set default access for EVERY amenity would make 90-95% of us happy, I think.  (Can't please everyone!)</p>

Allie
10-15-2008, 02:30 AM
There seems to be a bug with the Mannequins, I bought Mannequin5 yesterday, customized it and this morning we had 6, but 2 of them are called Mannequin5 and there was nothing in the history that someone has bought another. And the NPCs with uniform5 are naked now <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Should also be able to give those Mannequins name instead of having uniform1, uniform2 etc

Tallisman
10-15-2008, 07:52 AM
I'm sorry, I'm still confused.Is the ability to <b><i>use </i></b>an amenity tied to the rank a person holds within a guild or the properties of the amenity itself?Thanks.

Mikkahl
10-15-2008, 08:31 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>The harvesting Hirelings have been fixed, they give u stacks now not single items node by node. </blockquote>We just got the Miner and Gatherer yesterday, and the first load I got looked like a whole bunch of individual node pulls. (1, 3, 5, etc.).  I never saw this on Test Copy - it was always a compact summary of 4-6 harvest types.

Mikkahl
10-15-2008, 08:36 AM
<cite>Tallisman wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm sorry, I'm still confused.Is the ability to <b><i>use </i></b>an amenity tied to the rank a person holds within a guild or the properties of the amenity itself?</blockquote><p>Some amenities have an access level (Trustee, Friend, Visitor, or None) that can be set on the Amenities tab.  Some do not, and usually default to Visitor (the mailbox defaults to Friend).  I listed which was which on page 4 of this thread.</p><p>The Trustee, Friend, Visitor, or None level of any individual (guild member or not) can be set from the Access tab, by the individual's name (just like a house).  In addition, using the Guild window Ranks tab you can set which guild ranks are Trustees, Friends, Visitors, or None.  Most problems stem from trying to shoehorn 8 guild ranks in to 4 house access levels, and the fact that there is no house access above Visitor that is NOT allowed to move stuff around.</p>

Daysy
10-15-2008, 10:43 AM
The guild halls are great and of course there'll be teething troubles, some more serious than others. as mentioned by the previous posts. The one needing the most urgent attention in my opinion is the supply depot, which should have more controls, the least of which should be a log like the one on the guild bank.

Mikkahl
10-15-2008, 11:10 AM
<cite>Daysy wrote:</cite><blockquote>. . . The one needing the most urgent attention in my opinion is the supply depot, which should have more controls, the least of which should be a log like the one on the guild bank.</blockquote><p>A log like the guild bank would be so massive that it would be of little value - nobody could sort through it all (imagine one line per raw deposited, and one line for every item you've crafted!).  Maybe something more like the escrow deposit window, where it shows only one line per player, with a total and last deposit.   But it would have to show totals for up to 100 different raws, and that would make it way too wide!  I don't see a good way to make a log useful.  Maybe just a alert log, to show players that are using much more resources than they are depositing (or vice-versa for good samaritans).  But that doesn't work when I harvest on my mains and craft with my alts.</p><p>My number one control to add would be sort-by-tier.</p>

Allie
10-16-2008, 01:53 AM
Friends fixed for not moving items anymore and Mailbox fixed today, thanks for that!(from Update notes) I don't really really understand why Friends should be able to reset items? You remove them the ability to move items but you GIVE them the ability to reset items to the middle? Sorry but that does not make sense at all, leave this up to the trustees to do any stuff with the amenities! (Edit: tested it out and thx god it is not working)And also Mannequins are on Trustee access but visitors can still change the shape.But we still need a Guildhall Designer rank urgently, so many people want to design the guildhall and we don't want to give everyone Trustee Access.Guildhall Designer: Like Friend with the options: Can place Items, Can Move items around and can Pick up itemsThen we are happy for now <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Thanks~

Daysy
10-16-2008, 03:42 AM
<cite>Mikkahl wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Daysy wrote:</cite><blockquote>. . . The one needing the most urgent attention in my opinion is the supply depot, which should have more controls, the least of which should be a log like the one on the guild bank.</blockquote><p>A log like the guild bank would be so massive that it would be of little value - nobody could sort through it all (imagine one line per raw deposited, and one line for every item you've crafted!). Maybe something more like the escrow deposit window, where it shows only one line per player, with a total and last deposit. But it would have to show totals for up to 100 different raws, and that would make it way too wide! I don't see a good way to make a log useful. Maybe just a alert log, to show players that are using much more resources than they are depositing (or vice-versa for good samaritans). But that doesn't work when I harvest on my mains and craft with my alts.</p><p>My number one control to add would be sort-by-tier.</p></blockquote>The guild bank doesn't necessarily show one line per item. If 20 pies are withdrawn or 100 arrows deposited, it shows it as such. It also only shows the last 100 transactions, which is enough to see if there are activities involving large quantities. Having only totals showing would mean having to keep a list of what's there and comparing it regularly to the current list.