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CuriousGno
09-23-2008, 09:34 AM
Hello everyone. Me and my guild have been discussing this for a while now, and after the last game update we all agree that the MC armor have become way to overpowered.Most people would agree with me that one of the reasons that one does instances, dungeons etc is to get better armor/weapons etc. But after the latest MC upgrade, what is the point ?Sure, you can do it for the aa and the experience, but a lot of the fun has been taken away now that there are no prices waiting for you at the end of that dungeon.It seems to me and many others that what SOE is doing is incurring pure level grinding, much like they have in Everquest 1. I dont see that as a good thing. If I wanted to level grind, I would have stayed in EQ 1.I think that most people would agree with me that Legendary drops and Fabled drops should be better than the mastercrafted. Sure, the MC armor/weapons should show that time and effort has been put into making that piece of equipment, but not at the cost of actually reducing the gameplay value of the entire game.Anyone else here agree with me, or have something to add ?

erin
09-23-2008, 09:44 AM
Yes I disagree completely.  MC gear is nice until you do instances or heck even ROK questing.  Many of the quest lines end in nice legendary equipment.Show some items that are MC that are way overpowered, and then we can talk.

DragonMaster2385
09-23-2008, 09:50 AM
What game update? I don't see anything on the update forum and I'm not home now to look.

Nightmarus
09-23-2008, 09:53 AM
Disagree completely with the OP. MC Gear can beat legendary stuff on lvls 1-50 and thats fine as it is. Above 50 MC stuff is considered a temporary solution until you get the decent legendary and fabled stuff from quest lines. These quest rewards are far superior compared to MC. Just check out the new charm item and the cloak from Everfrost quests ... MC stuff looks like common vendor trash against those !/edit typos

Archangel
09-23-2008, 09:59 AM
<cite>CuriousGnome wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hello everyone. Me and my guild have been discussing this for a while now, and after the last game update we all agree that the MC armor have become way to overpowered.Most people would agree with me that one of the reasons that one does instances, dungeons etc is to get better armor/weapons etc. But after the latest MC upgrade, what is the point ?Sure, you can do it for the aa and the experience, but a lot of the fun has been taken away now that there are no prices waiting for you at the end of that dungeon.It seems to me and many others that what SOE is doing is incurring pure level grinding, much like they have in Everquest 1. I dont see that as a good thing. If I wanted to level grind, I would have stayed in EQ 1.I think that most people would agree with me that Legendary drops and Fabled drops should be better than the mastercrafted. Sure, the MC armor/weapons should show that time and effort has been put into making that piece of equipment, but not at the cost of actually reducing the gameplay value of the entire game.Anyone else here agree with me, or have something to add ?</blockquote>I know I'm cynical...But this wreaks of "waaaaahhh, my uber gear from raiding and doing instances doesn't make me sufficiently more uber than everyone else"

Grumpy_Warrior_01
09-23-2008, 10:09 AM
<cite>CuriousGnome wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hello everyone. Me and my guild have been discussing this for a while now, and after the last game update we all agree that the MC armor have become way to overpowered.Most people would agree with me that one of the reasons that one does instances, dungeons etc is to get better armor/weapons etc. But after the latest MC upgrade, what is the point ?Sure, you can do it for the aa and the experience, but a lot of the fun has been taken away now that there are no prices waiting for you at the end of that dungeon.It seems to me and many others that what SOE is doing is incurring pure level grinding, much like they have in Everquest 1. I dont see that as a good thing. If I wanted to level grind, I would have stayed in EQ 1.I think that most people would agree with me that Legendary drops and Fabled drops should be better than the mastercrafted. Sure, the MC armor/weapons should show that time and effort has been put into making that piece of equipment, but not at the cost of actually reducing the gameplay value of the entire game.Anyone else here agree with me, or have something to add ?</blockquote><p>Can you show some examples of the MC armor and weapons versus the instance and dungeon drops?  I was thinking items like Jarsath Robe of Royalty, Mantle of the Jarsath Tribe, Carotidcutter, etc., from the instances would be a bit better than armorers/weaponsmiths can make, at least not without rare components.</p>

Aurumn
09-23-2008, 10:15 AM
I'm guessing the OP wasn't referring to RoK content. More likely old world content or perhaps some EoF. It also depends on if you're considering resistances, stats and effects when you're comparing pieces. Some examples of some items the OP thinks are out of line would be useful to support the argument. Pick a few instance items you're disappointed with and then compare them to their MC counterparts.

Rahatmattata
09-23-2008, 10:47 AM
I agree with the OP. Until T7, mastercrafted is pretty much the best you can equip. As far as magical mitigation.... eh who cares? I haven't worried about resists since KoS, and doing group content from t2 through t6 certianly doesn't require any special magic mit even for a tank. The massive hitpoints more than make up for any lack of magic mit.Find some MC gear that's better than legendary/fabled? Hrm... I actually challenge you to find a legendary or fabled piece of comparable level that is better than MC before T7. For example, take a look at tier 5 contested raid loot vs MC. Why the hell would anyone want to raid T5 (for loot) when mastercrafted completely dominates it (except for some deaggro and power procs that mostly proc when you get hit yay). Compare level 32 feysteel to DFC armor. Compare level 42 MC jewelery to KoS raid loot. Nothing like a wizard with 320 int 1.5k hp self buffed at level 22. Mastercrafted completely owns virtually all items until T7. Even raid fabled. At least most HQ items are looking pretty good.

CuriousGno
09-23-2008, 10:49 AM
Nice to see that people are replying.I see that you all disagree with me, and you all tell me that the gear I can get better stuff the moment I start getting RoK stuff or quest somewhere. My highest level carachter is a lvl 64 Wizard, and it is also my only carachter because I just started playing the game after a few years leave from it..Now as long as I have played this carachter most of the gear I could find ingame have been worse than the same level mc gear. And it got "worse" after the last game update where they changed much of the stats on the mc armor.An example is <a href="http://eq2.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?eq2item=18984" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://eq2.allakhazam.com/db/item.h...l?eq2item=18984</a> . This dropped for me in the Nest the other day. But I still wouldnt trade my lvl 62 Tranquil chest piece for it. I cant seem to find it on Alla though. The stats on my chest piece is 34 sta, 38 int, 80 power/health, bunch of saves and +25 spelldamage and 1 disruption.This is the kind of equipment comparison I mean. And I feel that it has followed me across the entire game up to now. That might change when I get to lvl 70++, but I still feel that most mc gear are better than the stuff you can actually find.If not I would sure like some suggestion's as to where I can go and quest etc for gear that is better. At least that way I wont have to farm rare's anymore <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Lethe5683
09-23-2008, 10:53 AM
MC gear is definatly overpowered vs any pre-RoK item.  Legendary is supposed to generally be better than mastercrafted yes Mastercrafted is often better than fabled with the new changes.  The only thing legendary that might be worth using anymore is something with a special effect or weapons for the higher damage rating.

DragonMaster2385
09-23-2008, 10:55 AM
Oh, that MC upgrade was a while ago. And they followed it up with an increase to stats on most gear 1-70 to match RoK progression. Some items got overlooked in that upgrade, which the item from Nest was possibly one of them. Trust me, MC gear is only a temporary solution, especially in Tier 8.

Lethe5683
09-23-2008, 10:59 AM
The changes fixed most items 1-70 compared to the old mastercrafted items.  But now that they go and make MC better again totally defeated the purpose since now MC is the best again except for a few exceptions.  70-80 is the only leveled range where a good amount of legendary gear is better than MC and pretty much all fabled gear is better than MC.

Drakosani
09-23-2008, 11:01 AM
<cite>CuriousGnome wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hello everyone. Me and my guild have been discussing this for a while now, and after the last game update we all agree that the MC armor have become way to overpowered.Most people would agree with me that one of the reasons that one does instances, dungeons etc is to get better armor/weapons etc. But after the latest MC upgrade, what is the point ?Sure, you can do it for the aa and the experience, but a lot of the fun has been taken away now that there are no prices waiting for you at the end of that dungeon.It seems to me and many others that what SOE is doing is incurring pure level grinding, much like they have in Everquest 1. I dont see that as a good thing. If I wanted to level grind, I would have stayed in EQ 1.I think that most people would agree with me that Legendary drops and Fabled drops should be better than the mastercrafted. Sure, the MC armor/weapons should show that time and effort has been put into making that piece of equipment, but not at the cost of actually reducing the gameplay value of the entire game.Anyone else here agree with me, or have something to add ?</blockquote>I disagree with your analysis.  MC armor has alot of basica stats like stamina, int, resists, etc.  However, it is always missing the better stats for just about every class like +spell damage, +spell crit, +combat art damage.  MC gear is simply a solution until you quest better or get drops in instances.  Rarely is MC better than legendary from the stuff I have seen.

Lethe5683
09-23-2008, 11:08 AM
<cite>Drakosani wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>CuriousGnome wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hello everyone. Me and my guild have been discussing this for a while now, and after the last game update we all agree that the MC armor have become way to overpowered.Most people would agree with me that one of the reasons that one does instances, dungeons etc is to get better armor/weapons etc. But after the latest MC upgrade, what is the point ?Sure, you can do it for the aa and the experience, but a lot of the fun has been taken away now that there are no prices waiting for you at the end of that dungeon.It seems to me and many others that what SOE is doing is incurring pure level grinding, much like they have in Everquest 1. I dont see that as a good thing. If I wanted to level grind, I would have stayed in EQ 1.I think that most people would agree with me that Legendary drops and Fabled drops should be better than the mastercrafted. Sure, the MC armor/weapons should show that time and effort has been put into making that piece of equipment, but not at the cost of actually reducing the gameplay value of the entire game.Anyone else here agree with me, or have something to add ?</blockquote>I disagree with your analysis.  MC armor has alot of basica stats like stamina, int, resists, etc.  However, it is always missing the better stats for just about every class like +spell damage, +spell crit, +combat art damage.  MC gear is simply a solution until you quest better or get drops in instances.  Rarely is MC better than legendary from the stuff I have seen.</blockquote>Not anymore, they added + ca damage, + spell, +heal to all of the higher tier MC armor now.

CuriousGno
09-23-2008, 11:08 AM
Well, compare a lvl 62 mastercrafted piece and a same level legendary armor piece for me. Show me the difference you speak off. But as far I as can see I cant get better gear until I get to RoK. The gear I have now have enough extra spelldamage to make my wizard happy, and I cant find gear that give me more bonuses.But please, if you know of any gear that is better for a lvl 64 wizard, please tell me. I'll go and get it <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Thank you

Finora
09-23-2008, 11:11 AM
<p>While mastercrafted is really nice these days, treasured stuff was revamped.</p><p>I don't 'think' any legendary or fabled have been revamped yet (I know my ranger's old t5 rapier from CT Venekor still looks the same as it has since they did the DW changes). I suppose the dev team will get around to revamping that stuff like they did the treasured and it'll be better than mastercrafted in some way. When will they get around to doing it? Who knows. I imagine it's pretty busy around there these days.</p><p>Complaining about revamped mastercrafted in comparison to items that haven't yet recieved their revamp is a bit pointless though. If mastercrafted still blows epic dropped fabled of the same tier out of the water after the fabled stuff gets revamped, then we'll talk about it being over powered.</p>

Drakosani
09-23-2008, 11:13 AM
<cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Drakosani wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>CuriousGnome wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hello everyone. Me and my guild have been discussing this for a while now, and after the last game update we all agree that the MC armor have become way to overpowered.Most people would agree with me that one of the reasons that one does instances, dungeons etc is to get better armor/weapons etc. But after the latest MC upgrade, what is the point ?Sure, you can do it for the aa and the experience, but a lot of the fun has been taken away now that there are no prices waiting for you at the end of that dungeon.It seems to me and many others that what SOE is doing is incurring pure level grinding, much like they have in Everquest 1. I dont see that as a good thing. If I wanted to level grind, I would have stayed in EQ 1.I think that most people would agree with me that Legendary drops and Fabled drops should be better than the mastercrafted. Sure, the MC armor/weapons should show that time and effort has been put into making that piece of equipment, but not at the cost of actually reducing the gameplay value of the entire game.Anyone else here agree with me, or have something to add ?</blockquote>I disagree with your analysis.  MC armor has alot of basica stats like stamina, int, resists, etc.  However, it is always missing the better stats for just about every class like +spell damage, +spell crit, +combat art damage.  MC gear is simply a solution until you quest better or get drops in instances.  Rarely is MC better than legendary from the stuff I have seen.</blockquote>Not anymore, they added + ca damage, + spell, +heal to all of the higher tier MC armor now. </blockquote>What tier of MC armor are you refering to?  I am interested to see what you are talking about.

Rahatmattata
09-23-2008, 11:18 AM
<cite>Drakosani wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>I disagree with your analysis. MC armor has alot of basica stats like stamina, int, resists, etc. However, it is always missing the better stats for just about every class like +spell damage, +spell crit, +combat art damage. MC gear is simply a solution until you quest better or get drops in instances. Rarely is MC better than legendary from the stuff I have seen.</blockquote>There is very few gear before T7 with any kind of crit. Brigandine cobalt has both +heal and +spell on every single piece (I believe this is a recent change and don't know if the lower tier stuff has blue stats). Leveling up (especially when forced to solo quite a bit) I'll take a 25 str/sta/agi piece over a 23str 4sta 6agi +15 ca/spell piece.It would be neat if there was a way.... I would outfit a level X character in full mastercrafted; a poster that disagrees with the OP takes the same character and fit him with any legendary of his choice in the game. See who has the more robust character. I have found a couple items that were better than the mastercrafted of the same tier, but it is rare. The stormfire bow is nice and will last for quite a long time for a level 27 item. However, it's because the damage stats of the weapon surpass MC, not because of stats and effects (it has basically 13agi and +10 spell damage).I did find a <i>slight</i> upgrade for my cobalt bracers from courts of al'afaz for my defiler. I think it has more hp or power or something, and at the time my cobalt didnt have +spell/heal.

SnoesieQ
09-23-2008, 11:18 AM
The thing is, it seems the majority of people just want to rush to "endgame". Why would you want to spend months to find sets for the lower tiers, when you will find what you need in t8?They are now speeding up levelling A LOT with the next GU up to 70. My guess is that if people even bother upgrading what they just happen across, it will be MC, so it has to be good enough.The new expansion is supposedly for 50-80 and you will be able to "buy" the items you want (with tokens earnt), or at least, that is what has been stated.My guess is that MC is taking the new items into account, and that new things (like what happened with Everfrost revamp) will be better than the current MC.

Bloodfa
09-23-2008, 11:19 AM
I disagree with the original poster as well.  80, 59, 46, 38, and some lowbie T2 alts.  So we're talking about a decent spread of levels and tiers.  I've got a weaponsmith, tailor and jeweler, all in their 60's.  And I remember when mastercrafted didn't exist; you made legendary quality (I forget the exact description) items from rare materials.  If I had insight as to what would work for a wizzy at that tier, I'd let you know, but mine is only 38. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> 

Azekah1
09-23-2008, 11:21 AM
I don't have any problem with MC being the best til t8. It makes a crafters/harvesters life much easier.I do think though, that if something is labled legendary/mythical, both tiers that are supposed to be above mastercrafted, that they should actually be "better" than the MC available.To add insult a lot of the new treasured gear in the lower tiers is better than some leg/fabled.The devs would do well to fix the stats on all the leg/fabled gear.

Rahatmattata
09-23-2008, 11:21 AM
<cite>SnoesieQ wrote:</cite><blockquote>My guess is that MC is taking the new items into account, and that new things (like what happened with Everfrost revamp) will be better than the current MC.</blockquote>I'm a little surprised they haven't put blue stats on hex dolls.

Azekah1
09-23-2008, 11:23 AM
<cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>SnoesieQ wrote:</cite><blockquote>My guess is that MC is taking the new items into account, and that new things (like what happened with Everfrost revamp) will be better than the current MC.</blockquote>I'm a little surprised they haven't put blue stats on hex dolls.</blockquote>TBH hex dolls upgrades are really lamegoing from 9sta to 10sta...wow...thats like huge...

Odys
09-23-2008, 12:50 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>Disagree completely with the OP. MC Gear can beat legendary stuff on lvls 1-50 and thats fine as it is. Above 50 MC stuff is considered a temporary solution until you get the decent legendary and fabled stuff from quest lines. These quest rewards are far superior compared to MC. Just check out the new charm item and the cloak from Everfrost quests ... MC stuff looks like common vendor trash against those !/edit typos</blockquote>Are you joking? I saw the best non raid drops from the pre rok instances (unrest, valdoon) and the MC 62 gear is better. You may get better doing raid but nobody raid anything pre t8. Show any drop from a single group 1-70 dungeon better than MC and we may speak. Even m QH yekesha dagger was worst than any common 42 (and may be even 32)  mastercrafted weapon. I read that loot/quest rewards  had been improved  but when i play my reroll i still see the old rewards, and drop from named are unchanged. The other day while mentoring in Klak i laughed when i saw the old t6 wizard set. It's only in the end tier that you get better stuff if you group, i mean in ROK not before.I m not saying that dungeon reward should be much better than MC but at least it shoud be comparable so doing people running instances would be rewarded. Master drop should also be reviewed, we did the othe night two t7 instances, no mentor and everything was yellow to the highest in the group (red too other) we got 0  exquisite and one ornate after killing like 10-15 bosses. We got a warden/fury armor piece flagged as 66 that is worst that the 62 MC.

Yimway
09-23-2008, 01:07 PM
<cite>CuriousGnome wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well, compare a lvl 62 mastercrafted piece and a same level legendary armor piece for me. Show me the difference you speak off. But as far I as can see I cant get better gear until I get to RoK. The gear I have now have enough extra spelldamage to make my wizard happy, and I cant find gear that give me more bonuses.But please, if you know of any gear that is better for a lvl 64 wizard, please tell me. I'll go and get it <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Thank you</blockquote>Don't bother getting better gear than MC till you get to the final tier.   The MC is more than adequate to soloquest to 80 with. 

Transen
09-23-2008, 01:09 PM
<cite>Drakosani wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Drakosani wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>CuriousGnome wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hello everyone. Me and my guild have been discussing this for a while now, and after the last game update we all agree that the MC armor have become way to overpowered.Most people would agree with me that one of the reasons that one does instances, dungeons etc is to get better armor/weapons etc. But after the latest MC upgrade, what is the point ?Sure, you can do it for the aa and the experience, but a lot of the fun has been taken away now that there are no prices waiting for you at the end of that dungeon.It seems to me and many others that what SOE is doing is incurring pure level grinding, much like they have in Everquest 1. I dont see that as a good thing. If I wanted to level grind, I would have stayed in EQ 1.I think that most people would agree with me that Legendary drops and Fabled drops should be better than the mastercrafted. Sure, the MC armor/weapons should show that time and effort has been put into making that piece of equipment, but not at the cost of actually reducing the gameplay value of the entire game.Anyone else here agree with me, or have something to add ?</blockquote>I disagree with your analysis.  MC armor has alot of basica stats like stamina, int, resists, etc.  However, it is always missing the better stats for just about every class like +spell damage, +spell crit, +combat art damage.  MC gear is simply a solution until you quest better or get drops in instances.  Rarely is MC better than legendary from the stuff I have seen.</blockquote>Not anymore, they added + ca damage, + spell, +heal to all of the higher tier MC armor now. </blockquote>What tier of MC armor are you refering to?  I am interested to see what you are talking about.</blockquote>MCed gear from level 52 and up recieved bonuses to damage, heals, mana regen, health regen...the usual stuff they slapped onto the quest rewards from RoK only not as powerful (in some cases it's better than the RoK stuff, in others instances, not so much).Anyways, they did revamp all treasured, legendary, and fabled gear from levels 1-59 regardless if they're quest rewards or chest drops (except for charms, shields, secondary/ranged items, and bows/throwing weapons..the only exception would be for Heritage Quests where they all received the revamp upgrades).

Zarador
09-23-2008, 01:22 PM
Lets throw a wrench in all this...I keep seeing how the effort to do an instance is far greater than the effort to walk up to the broker and buy a piece of MC gear.  Perhaps, but where did the Rare to make the MC gear come from? How about the skill that the person who made the gear had to obtain?   I enjoy harvesting and harvest quite a bit.  It takes quite a few hours to get enough rares to make a full set of gear/spells/runes.   I guess if people want to compare the effort involved, then you have to compare it as "It takes less than 5 minutes to kill the named and get that chest" so your effort was about as long as a broker search.Also, when you call something "Overpowered" you need to relate it to the statistics against the enviornment where it will most likely be used.  Overpowered does not mean "I got this as a reward, you got that, so yours is overpowered, because mine is not that much better than yours".  As some stated, MC is designed to be a stepping stone if you intend to do more difficult encounters so you can get ready for raids.  You don't see many raiders as far as I know boasting about their MC gear.  If someone groups and does instances and dungeons most the time you wont see them with all Adept III and MC Gear.  Heck, in T-8 most the MC gear winds up being replaced by quested gear.

Lorzus
09-23-2008, 01:31 PM
I wouldn't say it's overpowered but MC gear typically is better than most legendary gear from instances especially when it comes to mitagation/stats for tanks. I've recently leveled both a guard and zerker up this past summer and with very few exceptions (court of invation legendary bp and gloves) I've used MC the whole way up until I hit 72. At that point the end rewards (legendary) for the quest lines there were better. The fabled from raids in t-6 and t-7 may be better but most people just leveling up to 80 don't see much in the way of those.

Kordran
09-23-2008, 04:02 PM
<p>Where MC armor usually comes in behind legendary/fabled is resists, and sometimes effects. But let me blunt here -- I have no tolerance for anyone who thinks that armorers and weaponsmiths should not be able to make desirable gear. I have both, and let me tell you, they are no picnic to level up. The idea that they are <i>finally</i> desired by players in the lower tiers has been a long, long time in coming.</p><p>And, continuing my bluntness, the so-called overpoweredness only exists in T2-T7... so what? T8 is where things really count, and for that, you do need to be running those instances and doing those raids. And with the experience changes that are coming in with the next update, it's going matter even less because people will be flying up to T8. Very few people today have any interest in T7 instances, simply because it is pointless except for AA and quest updates. Whatever you get there, you're going to start replacing with quest loot in Kunark and your first runs through CoA/VoES/MC.</p>

Oh
09-23-2008, 04:29 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>CuriousGnome wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well, compare a lvl 62 mastercrafted piece and a same level legendary armor piece for me. Show me the difference you speak off. But as far I as can see I cant get better gear until I get to RoK. The gear I have now have enough extra spelldamage to make my wizard happy, and I cant find gear that give me more bonuses.But please, if you know of any gear that is better for a lvl 64 wizard, please tell me. I'll go and get it <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Thank you</blockquote>Don't bother getting better gear than MC till you get to the final tier.   The <b>Treasured</b> is more than adequate to soloquest to 80 with.  </blockquote><p>Corrected your statement. Basically since treasured gear got it's revamp there really isn't any reason to bother getting MC gear. Maybe one or two classes might benifit more but that's about it at best. </p><p>I see the OP's concern but frankly it's not an issue. A gameing company doesn't want the majority of it's player base doing the old content they want the majority of it doing the last tier's worth that way they (the company) can focus on one area more instead of having to create content across the board for every tier. Also as others have said Treasured geared got a quick (read very very quick script update with bugs to be had and didn't effect items with an effect) upgrade from the 1-60 range (I wish it was 70 cause my warlock missed the stuff by just a few levels). The legendary and fabled gear I believe didn't get tweaked but i could be wrong, and then they finially retweaked MC gear (basically adding 2 or so more to the status).</p>

Azekah1
09-23-2008, 04:48 PM
<cite>Ohiv wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>I see the OP's concern but frankly it's not an issue. A gameing company doesn't want the majority of it's player base doing the old content they want the majority of it doing the last tier's worth that way they (the company) can focus on one area more instead of having to create content across the board for every tier.</p></blockquote>I guess thats WHY they updated all lower tier equipment, revamped a bunch of the old world zones, opened a new starting area the last few expacs, etc...And they really only spent hours and hours creating this whole world so after 2 years everyone would be at 80 and they could just delete the lower level areas and have all new chars start at lvl 70...right...

Oh
09-23-2008, 04:58 PM
<cite>Azekah1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ohiv wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>I see the OP's concern but frankly it's not an issue. A gameing company doesn't want the majority of it's player base doing the old content they want the majority of it doing the last tier's worth that way they (the company) can focus on one area more instead of having to create content across the board for every tier.</p></blockquote>I guess thats WHY they updated all lower tier equipment, revamped a bunch of the old world zones, opened a new starting area the last few expacs, etc...And they really only spent hours and hours creating this whole world so after 2 years everyone would be at 80 and they could just delete the lower level areas and have all new chars start at lvl 70...right...</blockquote><p>Actually yes. They upped the treasured gear so that folks didn't need to have to buy MC gear and make it easier to level. They are lowering the amount of XP needed to level so again they are making it easier to level. They revamped EF so that it was easier for folks to level because that level range folks were having problems finding enough quests (I personally didn't have a problem with that range it was the next tier for me). They put in a new starter area because they introduced a new race, nothing to do with helping leveling other then to give a prelude to what they would be doing later.</p><p>I also don't believe they will just "start characters at level 70", I think they are trying to minize the amount of time folks don't play together, which is why they are doing these changes. Once your in T8 you have much better odds of finding and getting a group unlike all of the previous tiers.</p>

greenmantle
09-23-2008, 09:41 PM
<cite>CuriousGnome wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hello everyone. Me and my guild have been discussing this for a while now, and after the last game update we all agree that the MC armor have become way to overpowered.Most people would agree with me that one of the reasons that one does instances, dungeons etc is to get better armor/weapons etc. But after the latest MC upgrade, what is the point ?Sure, you can do it for the aa and the experience, but a lot of the fun has been taken away now that there are no prices waiting for you at the end of that dungeon.It seems to me and many others that what SOE is doing is incurring pure level grinding, much like they have in Everquest 1. I dont see that as a good thing. If I wanted to level grind, I would have stayed in EQ 1.I think that most people would agree with me that Legendary drops and Fabled drops should be better than the mastercrafted. Sure, the MC armor/weapons should show that time and effort has been put into making that piece of equipment, but not at the cost of actually reducing the gameplay value of the entire game.Anyone else here agree with me, or have something to add ?</blockquote><p>1: my guild and I</p><p> 2: Most people would not agree so dont tell us we do</p><p>3: If you think mc is better than fabled your in the wrong dungeons, im a trade skill nutter and my top toons i think have one piece of mc each on them.</p>

freel
09-23-2008, 11:46 PM
Why are people opposed to tradeskillers being able to produce a quality product that players need and would benefit from wearing?I don't understand this. The buzz these days is all about giving players choices. Why not extend this to allow us the choice of being able to make nice, quality items that we can use or sell to those who desire them, as well as have the ability to quest for them or get them from mob drops?That seems to make the most sense in terms of allowing us all to have it our way.

Rahatmattata
09-24-2008, 09:46 AM
<cite>Zarador wrote:</cite><blockquote>Lets throw a wrench in all this...I keep seeing how the effort to do an instance is far greater than the effort to walk up to the broker and buy a piece of MC gear. Perhaps, but where did the Rare to make the MC gear come from? How about the skill that the person who made the gear had to obtain? I enjoy harvesting and harvest quite a bit. It takes quite a few hours to get enough rares to make a full set of gear/spells/runes. I guess if people want to compare the effort involved, then you have to compare it as "It takes less than 5 minutes to kill the named and get that chest" so your effort was about as long as a broker search.</blockquote>That's not a fair comparison at all. If you want to look at crafting like that... how about accounting for all the time it took to level up and gear up enough, and then find a group all to get to the point where you can whack said boss in 5min?Freewyn sounds like you either didn't read the thread or you missed the point. This isn't about crafters being able to make nice things. I have crafters as well.

Rahatmattata
09-24-2008, 09:54 AM
<cite>Kordran wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Where MC armor usually comes in behind legendary/fabled is resists, and sometimes effects. But let me blunt here -- I have no tolerance for anyone who thinks that armorers and weaponsmiths should not be able to make desirable gear. I have both, and let me tell you, they are no picnic to level up. The idea that they are <i>finally</i> desired by players in the lower tiers has been a long, long time in coming.</p><i><b>MC armor has been better than most legendary in t2-t6 for a long time. I think what you are seeing is it's much easier to get MC gear now. Back in the day a full set of mid tier armor was pretty difficult to get (full feysteel etc). Now, with all the plat in T8 and all the people running around with T8 harvesting skills and gear, it's much easier to obtain.</b></i><p>And, continuing my bluntness, the so-called overpoweredness only exists in T2-T7... so what? T8 is where things really count, and for that, you do need to be running those instances and doing those raids.</p><p><i><b>Eh... that is just your opinion. For T8 being where things really count, I sure do play my 80 guardian very little compared to my lower tier characters. I can still progress on my lower level characters.</b></i></p><p> And with the experience changes that are coming in with the next update, it's going matter even less because people will be flying up to T8. Very few people today have any interest in T7 instances, simply because it is pointless except for AA and quest updates. Whatever you get there, you're going to start replacing with quest loot in Kunark and your first runs through CoA/VoES/MC.</p></blockquote>

Vonotar
09-24-2008, 10:05 AM
To be fair, the recent adventuring gear revamp was level 1-59 only and even then items with 'effects' were left alone as the currently formula's they use for scaling don't properly take the effects into account.So we're still due a revamp to 60-69 (ROK is apparently the benchmark) and also a revamp to items with effects, so basically virtually any fabled item is still waiting for an upgrade(if i'm wrong on any of this please say, but this was the last that I remember hearing on the subject)

Kordran
09-24-2008, 11:09 AM
<cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite><blockquote>MC armor has been better than most legendary in t2-t6 for a long time. I think what you are seeing is it's much easier to get MC gear now. Back in the day a full set of mid tier armor was pretty difficult to get (full feysteel etc). Now, with all the plat in T8 and all the people running around with T8 harvesting skills and gear, it's much easier to obtain.</blockquote><p>That's simply not true, unless you take the myopic view that "better" simply means higher stat numbers for certain pieces. Legendary and fabled generally provide better stat <i><b>spreads</b></i>, somewhat higher mitigation, and better resists. That gear can also be found throughout a tier, where MC exists at the same level break for each tier (with some exceptions at T4 and T8. If you just stick with MC, by the time you're level 50, that T5 (level 42) MC gear is hurting compared to higher level T5 legendary and fabled.</p>

Oh
09-24-2008, 05:29 PM
<cite>Kordran wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite><blockquote>MC armor has been better than most legendary in t2-t6 for a long time. I think what you are seeing is it's much easier to get MC gear now. Back in the day a full set of mid tier armor was pretty difficult to get (full feysteel etc). Now, with all the plat in T8 and all the people running around with T8 harvesting skills and gear, it's much easier to obtain.</blockquote><p>That's simply not true, unless you take the myopic view that "better" simply means higher stat numbers for certain pieces. Legendary and fabled generally provide better stat <i><b>spreads</b></i>, somewhat higher mitigation, and better resists. That gear can also be found throughout a tier, where MC exists at the same level break for each tier (with some exceptions at T4 and T8. If you just stick with MC, by the time you're level 50, that T5 (level 42) MC gear is hurting compared to higher level T5 legendary and fabled.</p></blockquote><p>I know what your saying in priciple but I must respectifully disagree. It just so happens I was in a dungeon wearing my level 42 gear and a piece of level 50ish legendary gear droped. I looked at it, and looked at my MC gear and looked at it again. For me it was a POS item, then again I was only compairing one piece of legendary for a caster. For another class there might have been better choices. Also this was before the gear revamps, so I have no idea if that is currently the situation or not.</p><p>Now what I said might be full of poo if I was talking about a fighter type, and heck might be the same for a scout. I really never played those classes, but for my healer (fury) and my warlock it seemed to be the case.</p>

Azekah1
09-24-2008, 05:41 PM
<cite>Ohiv wrote:</cite><blockquote>I know what your saying in priciple but I must respectifully disagree. It just so happens I was in a dungeon wearing my level 42 gear and a piece of level 50ish legendary gear droped. I looked at it, and looked at my MC gear and looked at it again. For me it was a POS item, then again I was only compairing one piece of legendary for a caster. For another class there might have been better choices. Also this was before the gear revamps, so I have no idea if that is currently the situation or not.<p>Now what I said might be full of poo if I was talking about a fighter type, and heck might be the same for a scout. I really never played those classes, but for my healer (fury) and my warlock it seemed to be the case.</p></blockquote>I think they've only upgraded a small amout of them.Someone linked a level 70 legendary item in chat the other day that had just awful stats. I think I've seen tier 3 treasured that looked better.As far as leg vs MC...it's really more of a toss up. At the 2's, MC pretty much owns everything else. As you get closer to the next tier you might find some peices you can replace, but most likely, when you hit the next tier you will still have a majority of MC gear.Perhaps they still have plans to upgrade the gear, like they did a lot of the HQ items...and then MC won't be the best. I don't seen anything wrong with that even as a crafter. Cuz even then, MC is much more accessible for most players than leg is.

Armawk
09-24-2008, 07:00 PM
<p>I THINK that they missed out most legendary and fabled gear in the upgrades. I THINK it is because they tend to have effects on them and things with effects already in place didnt recieve an upgrade (too compicated for the program to work?)It does feel broken at the moment though, treasured is often better than legendary too. Its not MC thats broken, its the leg and fabled stuff.</p><p>Thats how it looks to me anyway.</p>

Wauke
09-24-2008, 07:12 PM
<cite>greenmantle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>CuriousGnome wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hello everyone. Me and my guild have been discussing this for a while now, and after the last game update we all agree that the MC armor have become way to overpowered.Most people would agree with me that one of the reasons that one does instances, dungeons etc is to get better armor/weapons etc. But after the latest MC upgrade, what is the point ?Sure, you can do it for the aa and the experience, but a lot of the fun has been taken away now that there are no prices waiting for you at the end of that dungeon.It seems to me and many others that what SOE is doing is incurring pure level grinding, much like they have in Everquest 1. I dont see that as a good thing. If I wanted to level grind, I would have stayed in EQ 1.I think that most people would agree with me that Legendary drops and Fabled drops should be better than the mastercrafted. Sure, the MC armor/weapons should show that time and effort has been put into making that piece of equipment, but not at the cost of actually reducing the gameplay value of the entire game.Anyone else here agree with me, or have something to add ?</blockquote><p>1: <b>my guild and I</b></p><p> 2: Most people would not agree so dont tell us we do</p><p>3: If you think mc is better than fabled <b>your</b> in the wrong dungeons, im a trade skill nutter and my top toons i think have one piece of mc each on them.</p></blockquote>I'm sorry, but if you're going to correct the OP's grammar with your "my guild and I" comment, then you should learn the difference between your and you're.

Noaani
09-24-2008, 07:26 PM
<cite>Archangel wrote:</cite><blockquote>I know I'm cynical...But this wreaks of "waaaaahhh, my uber gear from raiding and doing instances doesn't make me sufficiently more uber than everyone else"</blockquote><p>To me, this sounds like someone that has no idea what they are talking about, at all. The OP has some valid complaints, and they are to do with gear progression in lower levels.</p><p>Just because someone expects to have drops from instances as upgrades to easily obtained gear bought off the broker it doesn't mean they are whining, nor does it mean they are raiding. You need to get over your prejudice feelings towards raiders before you get yourself banned from posting.]</p><cite>CuriousGnome wrote:</cite><blockquote>An example is <a rel="nofollow" href="http://eq2.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?eq2item=18984" target="_blank">http://eq2.allakhazam.com/db/item.h...l?eq2item=18984</a> . This dropped for me in the Nest the other day. But I still wouldnt trade my lvl 62 Tranquil chest piece for it. I cant seem to find it on Alla though. The stats on my chest piece is 34 sta, 38 int, 80 power/health, bunch of saves and +25 spelldamage and 1 disruption.</blockquote><p>I spent near on a year complaining that this particular robe was overpowered in comparison to others avalible. At the tiem, it was the best robe in the game for a sorcerer, as there were no robes in game that would increase DPS of a mage, and this added the most power, which was often an issue in KoS raiding.</p><p>The fact is, the only gear that increases DPS for a mage until late T7 is mastercrafted. The real question I am asking myself is "is this a bad thing?"</p><p>It has been made clearly apparint that SoE want us to level to T8 faster than we have been in the past, and as a part of that they want us to have gear avalible that will help that. The gear that increases DPS the most for all classes at all levels - and thus helps you level the fastest - is mastercrafted.</p><p>If you are not one to level quickly, instance gear suddenly has a purpose. The robe linked for example is absolutly great for a mage trying to solo mobs he should not be soloing, or for mentoring and power leveling friends up. The power proc on it, for anything other than soloing solo mobs or running group instances (ie, normal leveling) is near overpowered.</p><p>Put another way, mastercrafted gear = fast leveling gear, instance gear = almost everything else.</p>

Noaani
09-24-2008, 07:29 PM
<cite>Azekah1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ohiv wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>I see the OP's concern but frankly it's not an issue. A gameing company doesn't want the majority of it's player base doing the old content they want the majority of it doing the last tier's worth that way they (the company) can focus on one area more instead of having to create content across the board for every tier.</p></blockquote>I guess thats WHY they updated all lower tier equipment, revamped a bunch of the old world zones, opened a new starting area the last few expacs, etc...And they really only spent hours and hours creating this whole world so after 2 years everyone would be at 80 and they could just delete the lower level areas and have all new chars start at lvl 70...right...</blockquote><p>Umm, they did the item upgrade so people would get through the content quicker... was that not obvious to some people?</p><p>They added the new start area in EoF to try and get new players to the game, and Neriak and TD in order to keep people that do not want to play at the level cap happy, as they were getting no other content for at least 2 years.</p><p>It was nothing to do with getting people to actually <i>play</i> that content.</p>

bleap
09-25-2008, 12:08 AM
<cite>Archangel wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>CuriousGnome wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hello everyone. Me and my guild have been discussing this for a while now, and after the last game update we all agree that the MC armor have become way to overpowered.Most people would agree with me that one of the reasons that one does instances, dungeons etc is to get better armor/weapons etc. But after the latest MC upgrade, what is the point ?Sure, you can do it for the aa and the experience, but a lot of the fun has been taken away now that there are no prices waiting for you at the end of that dungeon.It seems to me and many others that what SOE is doing is incurring pure level grinding, much like they have in Everquest 1. I dont see that as a good thing. If I wanted to level grind, I would have stayed in EQ 1.I think that most people would agree with me that Legendary drops and Fabled drops should be better than the mastercrafted. Sure, the MC armor/weapons should show that time and effort has been put into making that piece of equipment, but not at the cost of actually reducing the gameplay value of the entire game.Anyone else here agree with me, or have something to add ?</blockquote>I know I'm cynical...But this wreaks of "waaaaahhh, my uber gear from raiding and doing instances doesn't make me sufficiently more uber than everyone else"</blockquote>Sounds more to me like sour grapes...can't get good coin from farming because the itemization of the RoK zones sucks...The MC gear is so close in stats to the quested (and some dropped) legendary gear, no one is willing to drop major coing because it's not that big of an upgrade...and most of the pieces are no drop anyway so quit whining....trade skillers got to eat too..

Mogzilla
09-25-2008, 09:34 AM
MC armor is fine as is.

Illine
09-25-2008, 11:15 AM
as the OP said, yes MC gear is overpowered so that it's easier for people to reach end game where MC is not that great compared to loot.

Xethren
09-25-2008, 12:21 PM
<cite>CuriousGnome wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hello everyone. Me and my guild have been discussing this for a while now, and after the last game update we all agree that the MC armor have become way to overpowered.Most people would agree with me that one of the reasons that one does instances, dungeons etc is to get better armor/weapons etc. But after the latest MC upgrade, what is the point ?Sure, you can do it for the aa and the experience, but a lot of the fun has been taken away now that there are no prices waiting for you at the end of that dungeon.It seems to me and many others that what SOE is doing is incurring pure level grinding, much like they have in Everquest 1. I dont see that as a good thing. If I wanted to level grind, I would have stayed in EQ 1.I think that most people would agree with me that Legendary drops and Fabled drops should be better than the mastercrafted. Sure, the MC armor/weapons should show that time and effort has been put into making that piece of equipment, but not at the cost of actually reducing the gameplay value of the entire game.Anyone else here agree with me, or have something to add ?</blockquote>MC gear is better than almost everything pre-Kunark (in terms of raw stats) to make it valuable, so that it will actually sell and that crafting will actually have a point.If MC gear was worse than quested/dropped items, would anyone ever buy it? and hence would crafters ever make money? would people even craft?MC gear doesnt have the huge edge over world drops anymore what with the 1-59 item revamp. but it still has some edge over them. Which is how it should be. Otherwise there would be no market for crafted gear.

imnotdisco
09-25-2008, 12:47 PM
<p>Im not trying to offend or flame, but why are we complaining about mc armor? shouldnt we all be rejoicing especially those of us who cant raid or run instances all the time for the real good gear, and on top of that the gear doesnt get good till later lvs anyways, so mc is my only option for alts. </p><p>Personally (IMHO) i think it was a revamp much needed.</p>

Kordran
09-25-2008, 01:01 PM
<cite>imnotdisco wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Im not trying to offend or flame, but why are we complaining about mc armor? shouldnt we all be rejoicing especially those of us who cant raid or run instances all the time for the real good gear, and on top of that the gear doesnt get good till later lvs anyways, so mc is my only option for alts. </p><p>Personally (IMHO) i think it was a revamp much needed.</p></blockquote><p>Because there's a certain camp of folks who believe that the only way that you should be able to get nice gear is instances/raiding and it "offends" them that someone can get gear that's close to (or even better) by harvesting and crafting. In other words, it's simply yet another variation of the "you don't play the game the way I think you should" mentality. I personally enojy instance runs and raiding, but I'm also a crafter... and I don't believe in imposing my preferred style of play or preconceptions about the way things "should" be done on anyone else.</p><p>And I said earlier, if you look at most legendary and fabled, overall it has better stat spreads and resists than mastercrafted. A lot of people just look at the +35 STR or INT or whatever and go "ooh!" without considering everything else that helps make their character more balanced and perform better overall. They just see big numbers.</p>

Talathion
09-25-2008, 01:20 PM
Im good with it, as long as they remove the following from all mastercrafted:Shield Block Chance.Melee Critical Chance.Double Attack Chance.+Slashing, +Piercing, +Crushing.

Bloodfa
09-25-2008, 01:50 PM
<p>"God made all men, Sam Colt made 'em equal." </p><p><img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/49869fe8223507d7223db3451e5321aa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

Rocc
09-25-2008, 01:54 PM
<p>I have to agree with the OP. I took my zerker into Unrest at 72. I got my shiney new level 72 plate on and I'm ready to roar. We clear the zone and I win my class piece (chest armor). It's level 69 requirement is a little disconcerning because you can only wear it for three levels before adorning the MC (which is FAr surperior).</p><p>I'm glad to see crafters have a more desirable product. I'm not happy to see it compare to Legendary gear from any zone 70+.</p><p>Edit - Woops. No more complaining till I get out of my level 72 MC gear and into some fabled. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

Vumael
09-25-2008, 03:15 PM
MC gear is weak.

Azekah1
09-25-2008, 03:23 PM
<cite>Vumael wrote:</cite><blockquote>MC gear is weak.</blockquote>You're either stupid or dumb.

Armawk
09-25-2008, 09:14 PM
<cite>Noaani wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Umm, they did the item upgrade so people would get through the content quicker... was that not obvious to some people?</p><p>They added the new start area in EoF to try and get new players to the game, and Neriak and TD in order to keep people that do not want to play at the level cap happy, as they were getting no other content for at least 2 years.</p><p>It was nothing to do with getting people to actually <i>play</i> that content.</p></blockquote><p>They added it to correct their huge mess made by overpowering gear from TD too much, and make other starting areas more attractive. AND to make levelling quicker.</p><p>I guess they will fix Leg and Fabled stuff sooner or later.</p>

Noaani
09-25-2008, 11:47 PM
<cite>Kordran wrote:</cite><blockquote>Because there's a certain camp of folks who believe that the only way that you should be able to get nice gear is instances/raiding and it "offends" them that someone can get gear that's close to (or even better) by harvesting and crafting. In other words, it's simply yet another variation of the "you don't play the game the way I think you should" mentality. I personally enojy instance runs and raiding, but I'm also a crafter... and I don't believe in imposing my preferred style of play or preconceptions about the way things "should" be done on anyone else. <p>And I said earlier, if you look at most legendary and fabled, overall it has better stat spreads and resists than mastercrafted. A lot of people just look at the +35 STR or INT or whatever and go "ooh!" without considering everything else that helps make their character more balanced and perform better overall. They just see big numbers.</p></blockquote><p>I neither know nor care how long you have played this game, but I am going to give you a small history lesson.</p><p>During T5, if you did not raid, Ebon was absolute king. Ebon weapons were as good as you were able to get, ebon armour was the best a tank, scout, cleric or shaman was able to find, and there were no upgrades.</p><p>Since Ebon was equipable at level 40 at the time (assuming pristine, which some didn't want for certian pieces), and was avalible without adventuring, players were able to equip themselves in the best non raid gear in the game 10 levels before the level cap. At that point, in order to "finish" that character, all you had to do was grind out those last levels. At level 50, with legendary rare crafted gear and adept 3 spells/CAs, there was no progression left in the game for a character unless they were raiding.</p><p>This lead to near total boredom for anyone at the level cap. Raiders had nothing at all to do while not raiding, as nothing had any reasonable chance at anything worthwhile, and non raiders had nothing to do either.</p><p>Then DoF came around. A level 50 plate tank needed to do nothing but mine some rocks for the first few days, find an armourer, and suddenly he had the best tanking armour for a non raider again. Infact, it would take getting through more than half of the DoF raid progression before a plate tank would find replacements for some of the rare crafted armour that he got the day DoF went live, and before he had killed a single mob in that expansion. For some, those drops never happened, and they entered KoS having killed all but DMP in DoF, and were still wearing cobalt in a few slots.</p><p>Those that didn't raid in DoF had almost full cobalt at KoS release.</p><p>Eventually the developers realised that players were getting the best gear they could expect to ever have at that level from doing nothing other than harvesting for a day or two, and then looking for the appropriate crafter. They rightly decided that this was a bad idea, as it left the majority of the player base with no means of progression at all, and no reason to actually play the game because of that.</p><p>People wanting gear to progress from after mastercrafted (the easiest to obtain gear other than common crafted) is nothing at all to do with being offended about anything, it is to do with people wanting a logical progression path so they have a means to improve their character, and thus a reason to actually bother logging in. its nothing to do with forcing their thoughts no how the game should be played on to others, it is about wanting a healthy game that everyone is able to enjoy in their own way, while not negativly impacting on others.</p><p>As it is now, leveling up, mastercrafted gear is the best for DPS, for every class in the game. If all you want to do is grind out levels, mastercrafted works very well, as you are not likely to be confronted with any real challange. If, however, you are trying to do orange/red quests, or are in an area well above your level, there is gear that is better for this than mastercrafted, especially for tanks.</p><p>At max level, there is some fairly easily obtainable upgrades to mastercrafted for every class in almost every slot.</p>

Noaani
09-25-2008, 11:51 PM
<cite>shaunfletcher wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Umm, they did the item upgrade so people would get through the content quicker... was that not obvious to some people?</p><p>They added the new start area in EoF to try and get new players to the game, and Neriak and TD in order to keep people that do not want to play at the level cap happy, as they were getting no other content for at least 2 years.</p><p>It was nothing to do with getting people to actually <i>play</i> that content.</p></blockquote><p>They added it to correct their huge mess made by overpowering gear from TD too much, and make other starting areas more attractive. AND to make levelling quicker.</p><p>I guess they will fix Leg and Fabled stuff sooner or later.</p></blockquote><p>The only reason you would have for saying this is that you think they made the items from TD overpowered on accident.</p><p>If so, thats cute!</p>

Lleren
09-26-2008, 12:58 AM
<p>I would say some Legendary and Fabled items are underpowerered in comparison to the Mastercrafted currently available, and thats all the way into the current tier.  Several times I have been asked for gear advice to help another scout up thier DPS and often times I have to recomend replacing a higher level piece of legendary or even a  fabled piece, with the same tiers mastercrafted.   Sure there are a few Legendary pieces that are great and hard to replace even for a raiding toon, and some Fabled blows any other piece away for that class.  </p><p> Some of this I am sure will be changed in the upcoming expansion, I expect and hope to see Legendary that blows away mastercrafted for every slot, and some new Fabled to blow those pieces away =D</p><p>Steal the Cheese!!!!</p>

Kordran
09-26-2008, 04:19 AM
<cite>Noaani wrote:</cite><blockquote>I neither know nor care how long you have played this game, but I am going to give you a small history lesson. <p>[Long, drawn out text deleted...]</p><p>People wanting gear to progress from after mastercrafted (the easiest to obtain gear other than common crafted) is nothing at all to do with being offended about anything, it is to do with people wanting a logical progression path so they have a means to improve their character, and thus a reason to actually bother logging in. its nothing to do with forcing their thoughts no how the game should be played on to others, it is about wanting a healthy game that everyone is able to enjoy in their own way, while not negativly impacting on others.</p></blockquote><p>You're exactly the kind of person I was talking about. The "they only need to whack on rocks for a few days..." type that were upset that T6 rare crafted (at the time, legendary) was better than the T5 fabled that they had farmed "for months and months". Don't presume to tell me that raiders weren't offended and completely up in arms over this, I clearly remember the posts, and if you dig back on these very forums, you'd find plenty of them. They didn't care one whit about "logical progression", they cared about the self-perception of their "uberness" and the fact that non-raiders could acquire gear that was better than what they had at the time.</p><p>And just for the record, you didn't just harvest for a day or two back then to get a full suit of cobalt. When DoF was released, everyone and their brother was in Sinking Sands running up and down orc highway and the croc caves. Not to mention that the mechanics of harvesting was significantly different back then. Competition was fierce, and rares really were rare.</p><p>Back to the original point at hand... please, explain to me how having mastercrafted be desirable gear "negatively impacts" on anyone else's gameplay? Heck, how does <b><i>any</i></b> gear that you have impact me in any way, unless I happened to be grouped with you at the time? It has none. So you raided for three months to get your armor, I harvested for three days. Why should you care? If I'm happy with what I have, and you're happy with what you have, then what is the negative impact? Oh, wait.. you're not happy that I got what I have faster than what it took you to get what you have? That's not about progression, improving your character or any such nonsense... it's "I walked to school barefoot in the snow uphill, both ways ... and dammit, you should too." Nothing more.</p>

Noaani
09-26-2008, 05:28 AM
<cite>Kordran wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite><blockquote>I neither know nor care how long you have played this game, but I am going to give you a small history lesson. <p>[Long, drawn out text deleted...]</p><p>People wanting gear to progress from after mastercrafted (the easiest to obtain gear other than common crafted) is nothing at all to do with being offended about anything, it is to do with people wanting a logical progression path so they have a means to improve their character, and thus a reason to actually bother logging in. its nothing to do with forcing their thoughts no how the game should be played on to others, it is about wanting a healthy game that everyone is able to enjoy in their own way, while not negativly impacting on others.</p></blockquote><p>You're exactly the kind of person I was talking about. The "they only need to whack on rocks for a few days..." type that were upset that T6 rare crafted (at the time, legendary) was better than the T5 fabled that they had farmed "for months and months". Don't presume to tell me that raiders weren't offended and completely up in arms over this, I clearly remember the posts, and if you dig back on these very forums, you'd find plenty of them. They didn't care one whit about "logical progression", they cared about the self-perception of their "uberness" and the fact that non-raiders could acquire gear that was better than what they had at the time.</p><p>And just for the record, you didn't just harvest for a day or two back then to get a full suit of cobalt. When DoF was released, everyone and their brother was in Sinking Sands running up and down orc highway and the croc caves. Not to mention that the mechanics of harvesting was significantly different back then. Competition was fierce, and rares really were rare.</p><p>Back to the original point at hand... please, explain to me how having mastercrafted be desirable gear "negatively impacts" on anyone else's gameplay? Heck, how does <b><i>any</i></b> gear that you have impact me in any way, unless I happened to be grouped with you at the time? It has none. So you raided for three months to get your armor, I harvested for three days. Why should you care? If I'm happy with what I have, and you're happy with what you have, then what is the negative impact? Oh, wait.. you're not happy that I got what I have faster than what it took you to get what you have? That's not about progression, improving your character or any such nonsense... it's "I walked to school barefoot in the snow uphill, both ways ... and dammit, you should too." Nothing more.</p></blockquote><p>Any time a conversation about itemization involving crafted gear happens, someone has to come in and say "well, what does it matter to you if I harvested for a few hours and got the best gear in the game, it doesn't affect you at all, so leave me alone!"</p><p>These people fail to grasp the simple concept of progression. They are quite happy if they can walk in and get the best of everything, and then just not bother. They are the people that are purpetually asking for an easy button. They are the bane of MMO developers, and are dispised by the majority of MMO players that want to play a game with a healthy charater based progression system.</p><p>These people confuse me in that they understand the need to progress from level 1 to level 80 in order to be able to take on Trakanon, and they are aware that you have to get those levels in the correct order. They fully understand, accept, adapt to and even enjoy this system, yet, they are unable to apply it to anything outside of levels.</p><p>When you suggest that the same progression exists, and should exist, once you hit the level cap, but that it is gear orientated, they scoff, and say that they should be able to have the best gear in the game, supposedly because they are now level 80, so progression is now over. They fail to understand the difference in power between a level 80 character in full treasured gear vs one in full mastercrafted gear vs one in full fabled. They fail to understand that the encounters required to obtain the better gear in the game should not be defeatable wearing anything but the second best gear in the game. Even if those encounters were with nothing but a mining pick and a rock, if it produced the best gear in the game, you should be required to wear the second best gear in the game to get it, otherwise the second best gear in the game, and the content in which it is obtained, have no purpose in the game at all.</p><p>I would contine this discussion with you further, but I have been part of discussions exactly the same as this on many occasions over the last 2 years, and they always turn out the same. You want the best gear in the game to come from rocks that a level 5 adventurer can get, and fail to understand how that could be bad for the game.</p>

Armawk
09-26-2008, 08:02 AM
<cite>Noaani wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>The only reason you would have for saying this is that you think they made the items from TD overpowered on accident.</p><p>If so, thats cute!</p></blockquote><p>Sarky.</p><p>Honestly I think they messed it up.. I think the leadership decided what mattered that week was getting people to go play in the new area, and the itemisation devs did what they were told. This is such a pattern for design in stuff they release that it isnt even slightly surprising. Even this month the everfrost quest items introduced are.. survey says.. stupidly overpowered in order to get everyone to go play the new content.</p><p>I do also agree theres a longer term plan to make items better all round in earlier tiers to speed levelling. But I think that your faith in there being a masterplan which is sufficiently coherent to explain apparent bad decisions as fully thought out and intended in their consequence is.. well, cute as it were.</p>

Lasai
09-26-2008, 09:57 AM
I love the two sided hypocrisy of crafting bashing.  On one hand, people are appalled that crafters can make some items, mainly armor, that is actually good enough to sell and use.. on the other, they have no issues using any and all crafter products that don't touch thier cherished view that only looting should give nice gear.So, crafting is fine as long as we churn out cheap boxes, consumables, house items, baubles, any and all things considered too mundane to belong in thier Risk v Reward world, preferably at cheap prices.   Crafting is fine... as long as we don't produce anything very shiny.Crafting is also fine if items don't drop.. Nobody is complaining about adorns, are they.  They don't drop.  IF adorns dropped the howling would start.The other hypocrisy is sales.  Adventure types have no qualms at all about gouging the most possible gold out of a craft related item, while insisting that anything made with that component/raw/recipe be substandard and replaceable by common heroic trash loots.   I recall the prices of the first Chromatic drops... yeah, I want 30p for this component, but, the weapon you make from it better be worse than anything I can get from heroic 77 instance trash..Craft bashers have no problems USING crafters.. while at the same time denigrating them and asking that Player made gear be unrewarding and substandard.  As second class citizens, we should shut up and meekly produce all the items they need that are too trivial to be loot drops and be happy we get to do that for them.Every game is the same.  Nobody cares as long as crafters churn out consumables and fluff while Gear Drops remain sacred and unsullied.I don't buy the progression BS.  Originally, in SWG no crafter could produce end-game items without loot comps that NO crafter had a hope of obtaining "clicking a rock".  A combat char had to optain them.. and still, there were the same complaints about crafted items and crafters, in spite of the fact that getting those loot components required progression.   Bottom line is, for some items, the bulk of the player base wants to see it drop whole and usable without having to interact with some money-grubbing little nobody who really should be playing The Sims or Hello Kitty Online.I hope someday they make a loot only game.  I would find it hilarious to read the woes of people who had to farm trash for 3 hours to accumulate the heal potions they need to run a raid, or how aggravating it is to camp X npc for 3 days to get a 24 slot box or decent backpack.

Llew ap Dwr
09-26-2008, 10:24 AM
<p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><i> "I hope someday they make a loot only game.  I would find it hilarious to read the woes of people who had to farm trash for 3 hours to accumulate the heal potions they need to run a raid, or how aggravating it is to camp X npc for 3 days to get a 24 slot box or decent backpack."</i></span></p><p><i></i></p><p><span style="color: #ffffff;">Good point well made</span></p>

Noaani
09-26-2008, 11:26 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>So, crafting is fine as long as we churn out cheap boxes, consumables, house items, baubles, any and all things considered too mundane to belong in thier Risk v Reward world, preferably at cheap prices.   Crafting is fine... as long as we don't produce anything very shiny.</blockquote><p>Interesting post, but this is the part I want to comment on.</p><p>Crafters have in the past made absolute end game items, and most end game adventurers were more than happy for that to happen, and would love to see that happen again. This was first introduced in T5, and also had a re-iteration in T7.</p><p>What crafters always miss when talking about itemization is how the items they craft come into the game. When you caft an item, the quality of the item is not and should not be based on the skill or level of the crafter, because for the most part, the item you make is not your reward, the coin you get for making that item is your reward. The item itself is the reward for the adventurer that obtained the raw materials to have the item made, and then found a crafter to do the combine, at which point he provides the crafter with an appropriate reward (though a lot of players have no idea what an appropriate reward for a crafter is, being offered 5g to make a T8 adept 3 for a stranger ftl!).</p><p>The quality of the item should be dependant on what effort the adventurer had to go through in order to get the components needed to make the item the crafter is crafting. If those components invloved walking to a rock with no danger of seeing a mob that could attack, then the result is hand crafted gear. If the work required involves walking up to many rocks looking for a rare item from one of them, then both the time taken and the chances of coming under attack from something are both increased, and thus mastercrafted is born.</p><p>If the effort also requires going to an instance and killing named mob/s inside of it to collect a drop from them, then the quality of the gear can be reflected in that also, and this is how the faction armour came about. If the work involved required killing raid mobs time and time again to get a rare drop from one of them, and also securing the appropriate recipe book, then the item can be a reflection of this also, as was the T5 fabled items that crafters were able to make, as well as the EH items.</p><p>The only other factor that needs to be taken into account with this is the tradeability of the components. This has a bearing on how good the item should be, although it is reasonably small. A player that goes to the broker to buy the components to have an item created is essentially passing on a reward to the person that found those components, much as he is giving a reward to the crafter for turning them into the item he wants.</p><p>There is nothing wrong with any of this, when it is all working as it should. A crafted item that requires a rare drop from a mob should be slightly better than a rare drop from that same mob, reguardless of whether that mob is solo, heroic or epic.</p><p>The problem with crafting in this game, at least in terms of handcrafted and mastercrafted, is that the components used to make items comes from a mob with a difficulty of zero. This makes it hard to itemise well, and the only controlling factor as to how good mastercrafted should be is the drop rate of rares.</p><p>Your above statement is obviously missing a few important qualifiers. I am sure crafters would argue if handcrafted items were better than mastercrafted. if tags were to be ignored, this is the same argument as what a lot of adventurers are saying, rock dropped items are better than mob dropped items. </p><p>The crafting process in itself in this conversation is near meaningless. It does add to how desirable an item should be, but not a lot.</p><p>TBH, I think crafters shot themselves in to foot when they all complained about the implementation of the EH recipes. My money is on that being the last fabled quality crafting we ever see in this game, simply because it is not worth the headache you all gave development for it over minor issues/non issues.</p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>Originally, in SWG no crafter could produce end-game items without loot comps that NO crafter had a hope of obtaining "clicking a rock".  A combat char had to optain them.. and still, there were the same complaints about crafted items and crafters, in spite of the fact that getting those loot components required progression.   Bottom line is, for some items, the bulk of the player base wants to see it drop whole and usable without having to interact with some money-grubbing little nobody who really should be playing The Sims or Hello Kitty Online.</blockquote><p>Editing to add a thought to this comment.</p><p>The issues with SWG at the time were more to do with the possibility of crafters screwing things up and the adventurer losing what he had worked for, and also the fact that in that game, crafters had a direct impact on the finished products quality. While this is acceptable to some as a risk of better items, it is not to others.</p><p>Since crafters have no impact on the quality of a finished item in this game any more, and the rare component(s) used in the construction of the combine can be returned to the crafter or adventurer, this is not a concern in EQ2, and thus not a valid argument for or against anything.</p><p>I even disagree with the part about crafters being better off playing The Sims or Hello Kitty Online...</p>

Kordran
09-26-2008, 03:35 PM
<cite>Noaani wrote:</cite><blockquote>When you suggest that the same progression exists, and should exist, once you hit the level cap, but that it is gear orientated, they scoff, and say that they should be able to have the best gear in the game, supposedly because they are now level 80, so progression is now over.</blockquote><p>No one is scoffing at that. That <b><i>already exists</i></b> in the game as it is now. T8 mastercrafted is not better than any of the end-game legendary and certainly doesn't even come remotely close to the fabled. That progression is there, it is already in place and it's working just fine, thank you. Where it can be argued that mastercrafted is better than some legendary or fabled is only in the lower tiers, tiers that players are (by and large) blowing through anyway. So what exactly is the point that you're trying to make? That players should be required to "progress" through lower tier instances and raids to get decent gear as they prepare for the next tier?</p><p>To put it more bluntly: why the heck should anyone care if T4 feysteel armor is better than some legendary drop from Varsoon? Most people are level 30-40 for all of what? 2 days /played, if that? You're doing all of this chest thumping "it's the way it should be, they're not following proper progression!" over some trivial issue that arguably (and temporarily) only benefits lower level players. Big deal.</p>

Ba
09-26-2008, 04:01 PM
<p>I would not necessarily call MC "overpowered" but i would call it "competitive". Master crafted is high on mitigation and stats but overall its low/average on resists and nice proc affects. For example no manawell, overloaded heals, stun/root/snare/stifle procs, spell cast time reductions, etc on MC. Also very little spell crit/heal crit/CA crit (except on a couple of T8 jewellery items).</p><p>The tiers MC is best balanced vs treasured/legendary right now are: t1 (vs Timorous Deep gear), t6/t7 and t8. In those tiers MC is competitive with a lot of legendary and treasured (though to be honest a lot of T8 legendary/fabled i've seen still blows it out of the water).</p><p>For t2-t5 i'd say MC is overall better than the majority of treasured/legendary with some HQ rewards and fabled gear edging it out a bit in some cases (eg. rare fabled leather armguards from Book of Life in RoV are better than the equiv MC version).</p><p>I am completely fine with this, it encourages people to craft, it gives existing equipment crafters a reason+market and increases the demand for my raws/rares when I decide to sell them. Also it allows the non-raider crowd a reasonable means to achieve some halfway decent gear that allows them to play effectively in their tiers without feeling too gimped.</p><p>Balancing crafted gear vs dropped gear has always been a fine art and subject to much controversy. Its made even more painful for the game devs when they add in new tiers of gameplay and then have to rebalance existing crafted stuff and then the old dropped stuff. Sometimes they decide its easier just to totally revamp the whole zone, like they did with EF.</p>

Lleren
10-01-2008, 09:22 AM
<cite>Kordran wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite><blockquote>When you suggest that the same progression exists, and should exist, once you hit the level cap, but that it is gear orientated, they scoff, and say that they should be able to have the best gear in the game, supposedly because they are now level 80, so progression is now over.</blockquote><p>No one is scoffing at that. That <b><i>already exists</i></b> in the game as it is now. T8 mastercrafted is not better than any of the end-game legendary and certainly doesn't even come remotely close to the fabled. That progression is there, it is already in place and it's working just fine, thank you. Where it can be argued that mastercrafted is better than some legendary or fabled is only in the lower tiers, tiers that players are (by and large) blowing through anyway. So what exactly is the point that you're trying to make? That players should be required to "progress" through lower tier instances and raids to get decent gear as they prepare for the next tier?</p><p>To put it more bluntly: why the heck should anyone care if T4 feysteel armor is better than some legendary drop from Varsoon? Most people are level 30-40 for all of what? 2 days /played, if that? You're doing all of this chest thumping "it's the way it should be, they're not following proper progression!" over some trivial issue that arguably (and temporarily) only benefits lower level players. Big deal.</p></blockquote><p>T8 mastercrafted is better then end game legendary and even  some fabled <--- fixed that for you.</p><p> To the melee player trying to squeeze as much DPS as possible out of thier character, mastercrafted is in many cases a better choice then legendary instance drops or quest rewards.  All of the fabled drops are better then mastercrafted in terms of survivabilty, but many fail to be better in terms of DPS generation.  </p><p>That is right the almighty DPS, thats what half the folks are there for in your instance group.  The thing is they are likely after rare drop x and have to run this instace anywhere from 1 time to 150 times or more to actually see the drop and win it, or buy loot rights</p>

Windowlicker
10-01-2008, 10:26 AM
None of my fabled items are anywhere near Mastercrafted in power.  Night and day difference.Beyond that, what are you doing wearing level 72 crafted armor at 80?

Faenril
10-01-2008, 10:29 AM
Well, to those who say we don't care because it's not T8, I think now the devs can't avoid the T8 MC revamp, considering previous tiers revamps and how T7 MC is better now in some regards. If they revamp MC T8 and make it better than instance loot then I will have a problem. Like it or not you should not get the same reward for hitting rocks for one hour, compared to running an instance with other ppl, risking deaths, having to get lucky with the drop and actually roll for the loot. When MC gear gets better than instance gear there is no point running instances/dungeons anymore, and then what is EQ2 like ? What's the point playing Everharvest appart from enjoying the landscape ? If MC gear is meant to be better than instance drop, then it should not be that easy to get. I mean if you die while harvesting you really have issues (unless on pvp) . For instance they could make it that MC gear requires a chromatic essence on top of a rare to be crafted, that would make things interesting <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Kordran
10-01-2008, 11:03 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>T8 mastercrafted is better then end game legendary and even  some fabled <--- fixed that for you.</blockquote>Are you kidding me, do you even play this game and have a level 80 character?

Thunndar316
10-01-2008, 11:35 AM
<p>God forbid the casual player have access to decent gear.</p><p>If you wanna sit there on a raid for hours to get your epeen mythicals fine good but don't sit there and tell me I can't have decent gear because I don't follow your way of playing.   </p>

Killerbee3000
10-01-2008, 12:00 PM
<cite>Kordran wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>T8 mastercrafted is better then end game legendary and even  some fabled <--- fixed that for you.</blockquote>Are you kidding me, do you even play this game and have a level 80 character? </blockquote><p>Actually he is right, because there is t8 raid loot with no effects and mc stuff for the same slot with effects... yes, it can happen that mc beats fabled.</p><p>Just to put up a specific example:</p><p>Static field Projector, fabled, drops of zyklux in pr</p><p>24 str, 24 wis, 46 int, 165 hp, 195 power, 1134 vs. mental and disease, 5 disruption.</p><p>Pristine Fire Emerald Orb, 72 Mc</p><p>35 int, 90 mana, 385 to all 7 resists, +50 spell dmg +2 spell crit...</p><p>now any mage choosing the field projector over the emerald orb would be insane as it would be a clear dps loss.</p>

Rahatmattata
10-01-2008, 12:02 PM
<i>God forbid the casual player have access to decent gear.</i><p><i>If you wanna sit there on a raid for hours to get your mythicals fine good but don't sit there and tell me I can't have decent gear because I don't follow your way of playing.</i> </p>Gratz on completely missing the point. Noone has complained crafters can make nice items. I have an amorer, jeweler, and tailor. The issue is mastercrafted is the best gear in the game except at level 80. Crafters shouldn't be making gear that trumps most legendary and fabled... even if it is tier 2. I guess SOE disagrees though.

Thunndar316
10-01-2008, 12:12 PM
<cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite><blockquote><i>God forbid the casual player have access to decent gear.</i> <p><i>If you wanna sit there on a raid for hours to get your mythicals fine good but don't sit there and tell me I can't have decent gear because I don't follow your way of playing.</i> </p>Gratz on completely missing the point. Noone has complained crafters can make nice items. I have an amorer, jeweler, and tailor. The issue is mastercrafted is the best gear in the game except at level 80. Crafters shouldn't be making gear that trumps most legendary and fabled... even if it is tier 2. I guess SOE disagrees though.</blockquote>I understand the point completely.  Raiders don't want casuals to have anything because it hurts their ego.

Faenril
10-01-2008, 12:15 PM
<cite>Kordran wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>T8 mastercrafted is better then end game legendary and even  some fabled <--- fixed that for you.</blockquote>Are you kidding me, do you even play this game and have a level 80 character? </blockquote>As an example, good luck finding something better than the MC strength ring for that slot.I wear it since my lvl 72 and have yet to find an upgrade for my dps set.

Amytheyst
10-01-2008, 12:16 PM
Ya know, what I find funny, is who do you think made the darn mythical and legendary stuff in the first place? The Goblins who never get farmed outside RE?*Someone* had to <b><i>make</i></b> it.If its all about epeenage just say so for cripes sake- "Whats the point of running instances/raids?"My good fellow player, what in the hell do you play this game for, enjoyment or peenage? If its peenage, why arent crafters allowed to have peenage too? Gods know they gotta have better stamina than a walk through reading timed keypress jockey.Players should also have a chance (ie similar to, or prehaps as a revamp to the rare reactions in crafting) a chance to MAKE mythical.Food for thought.

Rahatmattata
10-01-2008, 12:16 PM
<cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite><blockquote><i>God forbid the casual player have access to decent gear.</i> <p><i>If you wanna sit there on a raid for hours to get your mythicals fine good but don't sit there and tell me I can't have decent gear because I don't follow your way of playing.</i> </p>Gratz on completely missing the point. Noone has complained crafters can make nice items. I have an amorer, jeweler, and tailor. The issue is mastercrafted is the best gear in the game except at level 80. Crafters shouldn't be making gear that trumps most legendary and fabled... even if it is tier 2. I guess SOE disagrees though.</blockquote>I understand the point completely. Raiders don't want casuals to have anything because it hurts their ego.</blockquote>Gratz on completely missing the point. Unless you are just trying to start an argument.

Faenril
10-01-2008, 12:19 PM
<cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite><blockquote><i>God forbid the casual player have access to decent gear.</i> <p><i>If you wanna sit there on a raid for hours to get your mythicals fine good but don't sit there and tell me I can't have decent gear because I don't follow your way of playing.</i> </p>Gratz on completely missing the point. Noone has complained crafters can make nice items. I have an amorer, jeweler, and tailor. The issue is mastercrafted is the best gear in the game except at level 80. Crafters shouldn't be making gear that trumps most legendary and fabled... even if it is tier 2. I guess SOE disagrees though.</blockquote>I understand the point completely.  Raiders don't want casuals to have anything because it hurts their ego.</blockquote>Raiders don't want casuals to have ***something better for a fraction of the effort because it makes no sense whatsoever***.Fixed for ya <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Basically you suggest ppl who work longer and harder should not be better rewarded ?

Thunndar316
10-01-2008, 12:32 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite><blockquote><i>God forbid the casual player have access to decent gear.</i> <p><i>If you wanna sit there on a raid for hours to get your mythicals fine good but don't sit there and tell me I can't have decent gear because I don't follow your way of playing.</i> </p>Gratz on completely missing the point. Noone has complained crafters can make nice items. I have an amorer, jeweler, and tailor. The issue is mastercrafted is the best gear in the game except at level 80. Crafters shouldn't be making gear that trumps most legendary and fabled... even if it is tier 2. I guess SOE disagrees though.</blockquote>I understand the point completely.  Raiders don't want casuals to have anything because it hurts their ego.</blockquote>Raiders don't want casuals to have ***something better for a fraction of the effort because it makes no sense whatsoever***.Fixed for ya <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Basically you suggest ppl who work longer and harder should not be better rewarded ?</blockquote><p>No I suggest that raiding should not be the only option for good equipment.  I don't enjoy sitting for hours on end for the chance that maybe something I can use will drop and maybe I will win it.  </p><p>If it were up to me, this game would be a max of 12 person raid content so small guilds can enjoy the entire game without swearing allegiance to a cult uber guild.</p>

Illine
10-01-2008, 12:43 PM
<p>the lvl 32 MC gear gives +19 in 3 stats and + 30 hp/mana</p><p>the lvl 42 MC gear gives +25 in 3 stats and +40 hp/mana (which is 6points more than the previous one and 10 power, life more)</p><p><b>now what follows are suppositions since I only have a lvl 80 fabled main a bunch of lvl 40/50 alts with T5 MC gear.</b></p><p>this means lvl 52 MC gear gives +31 in 3 stats and +50 hp/mana</p><p>62 MC gear gives +37 in 3 stats and +60 hp/mana</p><p>72 MC gear gives +43 in 3 stats and +70 hp/mana</p><p>nice for leveling but when you reach end level, you'll find better legendary. usually they have equal stats but they have more. with MC gear you can only max 3 stats. so nice for classes who only need 3 stats, but not as nice for those who need many different stats. Bards, crusaders for instance.</p><p>I know than a templar in MC gear can easily raid. 7 pieces of equipement + 7 jewellerie mean 43 * 14 = 602 wis, int and res without weapons and symbols. so it's quite nice.</p><p>but for tanks MC gear is not good enough to stay alive in dongeons. plus it doesn't necesarily gives you good buffs on your ar;or like legendary or fabled does.</p><p>it's then really powerfull till you reach T8. nice since it's hard now to find groups, so with this gear, you can solo more easily <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>and anyway now, except for T7 and T8 raids, people who raid lower content do it more for the AA and all the rare who were on the chest than for the fabled. SOE makes the lower tier gear better coz you don't grind epics. you level so fast that epic mobs get grey quickly and so don't drop anything anymore so what's the point of letting lower tiers fabled items better since nobody wears them anymore.</p>

Faenril
10-01-2008, 12:45 PM
<cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite><blockquote><i>God forbid the casual player have access to decent gear.</i> <p><i>If you wanna sit there on a raid for hours to get your mythicals fine good but don't sit there and tell me I can't have decent gear because I don't follow your way of playing.</i> </p>Gratz on completely missing the point. Noone has complained crafters can make nice items. I have an amorer, jeweler, and tailor. The issue is mastercrafted is the best gear in the game except at level 80. Crafters shouldn't be making gear that trumps most legendary and fabled... even if it is tier 2. I guess SOE disagrees though.</blockquote>I understand the point completely.  Raiders don't want casuals to have anything because it hurts their ego.</blockquote>Raiders don't want casuals to have ***something better for a fraction of the effort because it makes no sense whatsoever***.Fixed for ya <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Basically you suggest ppl who work longer and harder should not be better rewarded ?</blockquote><p>No I suggest that raiding should not be the only option for good equipment.  I don't enjoy sitting for hours on end for the chance that maybe something I can use will drop and maybe I will win it.  </p><p>If it were up to me, this game would be a max of 12 person raid content so small guilds can enjoy the entire game without swearing allegiance to a cult uber guild.</p></blockquote>Last time I checked, "good" and "better" do not mean the same <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Nobody said MC gear should not be good, as well as nobody said raiding should be the only option. For the most part it's MC vs instance drop issue.

Faenril
10-01-2008, 12:49 PM
<cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Players should also have a chance (ie similar to, or prehaps as a revamp to the rare reactions in crafting) a chance to MAKE mythical.</blockquote>Why not, if it takes the crafter (or his customer) the same amount of effort as an adventurer would put to get his mythical <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Lady Uaelr
10-01-2008, 01:21 PM
<cite>CuriousGnome wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hello everyone. Me and my guild have been discussing this for a while now, and after the last game update we all agree that the MC armor have become way to overpowered.Most people would agree with me that one of the reasons that one does instances, dungeons etc is to get better armor/weapons etc. But after the latest MC upgrade, what is the point ?Sure, you can do it for the aa and the experience, but a lot of the fun has been taken away now that there are no prices waiting for you at the end of that dungeon.It seems to me and many others that what SOE is doing is incurring pure level grinding, much like they have in Everquest 1. I dont see that as a good thing. If I wanted to level grind, I would have stayed in EQ 1.I think that most people would agree with me that Legendary drops and Fabled drops should be better than the mastercrafted. Sure, the MC armor/weapons should show that time and effort has been put into making that piece of equipment, but not at the cost of actually reducing the gameplay value of the entire game.Anyone else here agree with me, or have something to add ?</blockquote><p>Disagree.</p><p>MC is great to start out with.</p>

Zarador
10-01-2008, 01:35 PM
Why do they award a Gold Medal for Swimming when clearly "Insert Team Event" is more difficult? Sounds stupid, right?  So why do we always need to compare the rewards of one style against another in this game?  If you don't wish to partisipate in that function of the game, then why sweat that someone else is not deserving of whatever it is they get when you could just as easily do the same and get the same? This post is starting to sound like the "RoK Solo Grind Whine" that went on for pages and pages.  Man, I hate to solo, they should remove solo content from the game or at least make it so the rewards are trash compared to what I get for doing what I like to do.  My play style requires skill and effort, theirs is a walk in the park.  They never risk spilling a can of soda on their lap during a tense raid with 24 other people winding up with cheese puff stains and sticky keyboards.  Kids today have it so easy...You should do what it is that you enjoy doing in a game because <u><b>***NEWS FLASH***</b></u> It's entertaining!   That's it, nothing more.  It's all virtual pixels in a virtual world, nothing more. I'm reminded of this when I look at my Everquest I characters.  I stopped playing that game about the time that Everquest II was released.  At the time, I was well geared and in a top raiding guild.  Nothing (in my online world) seemed more important to me.  Now where does this character stand?  15 levels below cap, sub-standard gear, no guild, no interest in playing. Where did those years of "investing" go?  Well, no where I guess other than the ability to say I enjoyed the game while I played.So the guy next to you delivered a package and got a reward that's almost as good as (or maybe better) than you and your friends got for a night out of storming the castle.  Either realize that you had a blast with your friends and it was worth it or go out and deliver the package that they delivered.  The other guy went out and created a crafter that managed to make some nifty items that are once again in your opinion to much reward for too little effort.  <u><b>***SPOILER ALERT *** </b></u>Most towns have crafting stations and trainers AND most the stuff is also available on the Broker (also located in most towns)! <i>whispers</i> The rares needed to make the items can actually be self harvested for free as well (gasps).

Lleren
10-01-2008, 10:12 PM
<cite>Kordran wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>T8 mastercrafted is better then end game legendary and even  some fabled <--- fixed that for you.</blockquote>Are you kidding me, do you even play this game and have a level 80 character? </blockquote><p>well I raid VP on my Monk,  my 80 Swashbuckler /80 jeweler/400 transmuter has done a few raids =D</p><p> Oh and I just leveld a Ranger to 80</p><p>and a bunch of alts below that including a 76 Armorer </p><p>Yeah I profit from MC</p>

Faenril
10-02-2008, 06:48 AM
<cite>Zarador wrote:</cite><blockquote>Why do they award a Gold Medal for Swimming when clearly "Insert Team Event" is more difficult? Sounds stupid, right?  So why do we always need to compare the rewards of one style against another in this game?  If you don't wish to partisipate in that function of the game, then why sweat that someone else is not deserving of whatever it is they get when you could just as easily do the same and get the same? This post is starting to sound like the "RoK Solo Grind Whine" that went on for pages and pages.  Man, I hate to solo, they should remove solo content from the game or at least make it so the rewards are trash compared to what I get for doing what I like to do.  My play style requires skill and effort, theirs is a walk in the park.  They never risk spilling a can of soda on their lap during a tense raid with 24 other people winding up with cheese puff stains and sticky keyboards.  Kids today have it so easy...You should do what it is that you enjoy doing in a game because <u><b>***NEWS FLASH***</b></u> It's entertaining!   That's it, nothing more.  It's all virtual pixels in a virtual world, nothing more. I'm reminded of this when I look at my Everquest I characters.  I stopped playing that game about the time that Everquest II was released.  At the time, I was well geared and in a top raiding guild.  Nothing (in my online world) seemed more important to me.  Now where does this character stand?  15 levels below cap, sub-standard gear, no guild, no interest in playing. Where did those years of "investing" go?  Well, no where I guess other than the ability to say I enjoyed the game while I played.So the guy next to you delivered a package and got a reward that's almost as good as (or maybe better) than you and your friends got for a night out of storming the castle.  Either realize that you had a blast with your friends and it was worth it or go out and deliver the package that they delivered.  The other guy went out and created a crafter that managed to make some nifty items that are once again in your opinion to much reward for too little effort.  <u><b>***SPOILER ALERT *** </b></u>Most towns have crafting stations and trainers AND most the stuff is also available on the Broker (also located in most towns)! <i>whispers</i> The rares needed to make the items can actually be self harvested for free as well (gasps). </blockquote>You actually make a very good point regarding player's motivation. Why should you log on ? Because it's fun, no doubt.Well then I guess ppl harvesting rocks for hours find it entertaining to some degree, or running CoA for the 100th time <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />My opinion is not all but many ppl get satisfaction from progressing their toon, and get somehow a sense of accomplishment from that.This means leveling up first, and once you are at level cap gearing up your toon. You can call that e-peenage if you like, it may be a little bit more than that though.Sure there is a fun factor involved at some point in the process, but do you really killed those 10 badgers because it was fun or challenging your player skills, or because you knew you would get some XP/AA/coin from completing the quest ?Sure some zones are beautiful, some quests/storylines are pretty well packed together, some encounters are actually fun or challenging. But for the most part EQ2, like every MMO, is a grind.Why do you think there is a level cap increase or new AAs from time to time with new expansions ?Because ppl need a goal, this goal being progressing the toon.Even when this goal is completely artificial by increasing the level cap, dropping to the toilets all the work put to gear up/master out your toon, ppl keep playing and start again for 10 levels. Rince and repeat.Ok, now from a pragmatic point of view, as a MMO hosting company, or simply as a player being part of the community, you want ppl to keep playing the game for a long time right, not one week then switch to the next game ? Because empty MMOs are not really fun to most players, nor profitable to the company hosting them.Do you think those ppl will keep playing this game when after a week of harvesting they realize they now have the top gear and can't really progress their toon further ? (I know we are not in that state, but still EQ2 tends to evolve this way).I know everyone do not play for the sake of toon progression, some just enjoy the lore/questing content/RP. But many do play for improving their toon, like it or not. Those need a consistent gear progression model.Now it could be I'm a little biased... Being on pvp enabled servers, we have a purpose for gearing up, appart from posing with our new shiny armor in Qeynos harbor <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Zarador
10-02-2008, 01:43 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zarador wrote:</cite><blockquote>Why do they award a Gold Medal for Swimming when clearly "Insert Team Event" is more difficult? Sounds stupid, right?  So why do we always need to compare the rewards of one style against another in this game?  If you don't wish to partisipate in that function of the game, then why sweat that someone else is not deserving of whatever it is they get when you could just as easily do the same and get the same? This post is starting to sound like the "RoK Solo Grind Whine" that went on for pages and pages.  Man, I hate to solo, they should remove solo content from the game or at least make it so the rewards are trash compared to what I get for doing what I like to do.  My play style requires skill and effort, theirs is a walk in the park.  They never risk spilling a can of soda on their lap during a tense raid with 24 other people winding up with cheese puff stains and sticky keyboards.  Kids today have it so easy...You should do what it is that you enjoy doing in a game because <u><b>***NEWS FLASH***</b></u> It's entertaining!   That's it, nothing more.  It's all virtual pixels in a virtual world, nothing more. I'm reminded of this when I look at my Everquest I characters.  I stopped playing that game about the time that Everquest II was released.  At the time, I was well geared and in a top raiding guild.  Nothing (in my online world) seemed more important to me.  Now where does this character stand?  15 levels below cap, sub-standard gear, no guild, no interest in playing. Where did those years of "investing" go?  Well, no where I guess other than the ability to say I enjoyed the game while I played.So the guy next to you delivered a package and got a reward that's almost as good as (or maybe better) than you and your friends got for a night out of storming the castle.  Either realize that you had a blast with your friends and it was worth it or go out and deliver the package that they delivered.  The other guy went out and created a crafter that managed to make some nifty items that are once again in your opinion to much reward for too little effort.  <u><b>***SPOILER ALERT *** </b></u>Most towns have crafting stations and trainers AND most the stuff is also available on the Broker (also located in most towns)! <i>whispers</i> The rares needed to make the items can actually be self harvested for free as well (gasps). </blockquote>You actually make a very good point regarding player's motivation. Why should you log on ? Because it's fun, no doubt.Well then I guess ppl harvesting rocks for hours find it entertaining to some degree, or running CoA for the 100th time <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />My opinion is not all but many ppl get satisfaction from progressing their toon, and get somehow a sense of accomplishment from that.This means leveling up first, and once you are at level cap gearing up your toon. You can call that e-peenage if you like, it may be a little bit more than that though.Sure there is a fun factor involved at some point in the process, but do you really killed those 10 badgers because it was fun or challenging your player skills, or because you knew you would get some XP/AA/coin from completing the quest ?Sure some zones are beautiful, some quests/storylines are pretty well packed together, some encounters are actually fun or challenging. But for the most part EQ2, like every MMO, is a grind.Why do you think there is a level cap increase or new AAs from time to time with new expansions ?Because ppl need a goal, this goal being progressing the toon.Even when this goal is completely artificial by increasing the level cap, dropping to the toilets all the work put to gear up/master out your toon, ppl keep playing and start again for 10 levels. Rince and repeat.Ok, now from a pragmatic point of view, as a MMO hosting company, or simply as a player being part of the community, you want ppl to keep playing the game for a long time right, not one week then switch to the next game ? Because empty MMOs are not really fun to most players, nor profitable to the company hosting them.Do you think those ppl will keep playing this game when after a week of harvesting they realize they now have the top gear and can't really progress their toon further ? (I know we are not in that state, but still EQ2 tends to evolve this way).I know everyone do not play for the sake of toon progression, some just enjoy the lore/questing content/RP. But many do play for improving their toon, like it or not. Those need a consistent gear progression model.Now it could be I'm a little biased... Being on pvp enabled servers, we have a purpose for gearing up, appart from posing with our new shiny armor in Qeynos harbor <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote>I think were both on the same page of this subject.  Long ago games live Everquest I were based on "Do this, or get nothing".  Since they were pretty much the only real game in town, people went along with that idea for the most part.No we have evolved to state of "Choose your direction, you will be rewarded for excelling in whatever you do".   This allows for totally different, yet rewarding play styles.  Being a solo/duo player or even just a pure crafter no longer means that you will get junk that no one wants to wear or make junk that no one wants to purchase because of your choice. Being a part of a high end Guild no longer means that all you have is better gear to show for it.  Being a part of a smaller one no longer means your just a social collective that will never be rewarded for working together, yet not raiding. People need to view THEIR rewards for what THEY do and determine if that's worth THEIR efforts.  Then complain if the stats on the gear are not adequate for the encounters they engage. If I really enjoy doing what it is that I do in the game, then my only concern should be that the rewards that my play style affords me allows me to do that job better as I progress. Instead of looking at the picture as Solo-->Group--->Instance--->Raid being the progression, look at it as paths instead.  Seperate play styles that all offer their own type of rewards.  Think of it as "unlocking" which way you will go instead of "this has to be better because of that".

Vumael
10-03-2008, 12:01 PM
<cite>Azekah1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vumael wrote:</cite><blockquote>MC gear is weak.</blockquote>You're either stupid or dumb.</blockquote><p>3rd choice, I know more about the game than you.  80 coercer, VP / Avatar gear and still using some Legendary pieces that aren't MC. (9th year between eq1 and 2 also, led 3 top 5 raiding guilds.)  What's so great about MC gear?  Spell damage?  Block Chance.... Hmmm do I smell noobs? <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

Vumael
10-03-2008, 12:10 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kordran wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite><blockquote>When you suggest that the same progression exists, and should exist, once you hit the level cap, but that it is gear orientated, they scoff, and say that they should be able to have the best gear in the game, supposedly because they are now level 80, so progression is now over.</blockquote><p>No one is scoffing at that. That <b><i>already exists</i></b> in the game as it is now. T8 mastercrafted is not better than any of the end-game legendary and certainly doesn't even come remotely close to the fabled. That progression is there, it is already in place and it's working just fine, thank you. Where it can be argued that mastercrafted is better than some legendary or fabled is only in the lower tiers, tiers that players are (by and large) blowing through anyway. So what exactly is the point that you're trying to make? That players should be required to "progress" through lower tier instances and raids to get decent gear as they prepare for the next tier?</p><p>To put it more bluntly: why the heck should anyone care if T4 feysteel armor is better than some legendary drop from Varsoon? Most people are level 30-40 for all of what? 2 days /played, if that? You're doing all of this chest thumping "it's the way it should be, they're not following proper progression!" over some trivial issue that arguably (and temporarily) only benefits lower level players. Big deal.</p></blockquote><p>T8 mastercrafted is better then end game legendary and even  some fabled <--- fixed that for you.</p><p> To the melee player trying to squeeze as much DPS as possible out of thier character, mastercrafted is in many cases a better choice then legendary instance drops or quest rewards.  All of the fabled drops are better then mastercrafted in terms of survivabilty, but many fail to be better in terms of DPS generation.  </p><p>That is right the almighty DPS, thats what half the folks are there for in your instance group.  The thing is they are likely after rare drop x and have to run this instace anywhere from 1 time to 150 times or more to actually see the drop and win it, or buy loot rights</p></blockquote><p>T8 MC is NOT better for DPS.  Speaking as an 80 Coercer...  You want some pitiful spell damage mods over spell crit?  LOL.  Start up your ACT or watch me in action sometime and we'll have a good laugh.</p><p>Woven Silk Underlay > MC Forearms</p><p>Symbol of the Eaten > MC Shoulders</p><p>Muslin Silk Pants > MC Pants</p><p>Fuschia Finery > MC hat</p><p>etc etc etc.  You might wanna start looking on EQ2flames for advice, our scouts would disagree with you also.</p>

Vumael
10-03-2008, 12:13 PM
<cite>Killerbee3000 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kordran wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>T8 mastercrafted is better then end game legendary and even  some fabled <--- fixed that for you.</blockquote>Are you kidding me, do you even play this game and have a level 80 character? </blockquote><p>Actually he is right, because there is t8 raid loot with no effects and mc stuff for the same slot with effects... yes, it can happen that mc beats fabled.</p><p>Just to put up a specific example:</p><p>Static field Projector, fabled, drops of zyklux in pr</p><p>24 str, 24 wis, 46 int, 165 hp, 195 power, 1134 vs. mental and disease, 5 disruption.</p><p>Pristine Fire Emerald Orb, 72 Mc</p><p>35 int, 90 mana, 385 to all 7 resists, +50 spell dmg +2 spell crit...</p><p>now any mage choosing the field projector over the emerald orb would be insane as it would be a clear dps loss.</p></blockquote>Actually, he is WRONG.  He said it is better than "end game" legendary which it isn't.  There are SOME fabled pieces that are worse than MC gear but only depending on what you are looking for out of them.  Whether it is resists, pure stats, dps etc. there is almost always something across the board which is better (if not multiple things.)  Comparing MC gear to end game legendary or fabled is just plainly absurd.

Vumael
10-03-2008, 12:15 PM
<cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>God forbid the casual player have access to decent gear.</p><p>If you wanna sit there on a raid for hours to get your epeen mythicals fine good but don't sit there and tell me I can't have decent gear because I don't follow your way of playing.   </p></blockquote><p>MC isn't even considered wearable to anyone in my guild, some treasured pieces are better.</p><p>Some individual raid pieces of mine would devour all of your MC pieces =p</p><p>If anything I think MC is fine as it is, and maybe could be a bit better. (but harder to make)</p>

Vumael
10-03-2008, 12:17 PM
<cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite><blockquote><i>God forbid the casual player have access to decent gear.</i> <p><i>If you wanna sit there on a raid for hours to get your mythicals fine good but don't sit there and tell me I can't have decent gear because I don't follow your way of playing.</i> </p>Gratz on completely missing the point. Noone has complained crafters can make nice items. I have an amorer, jeweler, and tailor. The issue is mastercrafted is the best gear in the game except at level 80. Crafters shouldn't be making gear that trumps most legendary and fabled... even if it is tier 2. I guess SOE disagrees though.</blockquote>I understand the point completely.  Raiders don't want casuals to have anything because it hurts their ego.</blockquote><p>I'm on a pvp server and has no issues with what casual players have because quite simply they die in 2-3 hits from me (which helps my ego plenty by itself.)</p>

Vumael
10-03-2008, 12:28 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kordran wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>T8 mastercrafted is better then end game legendary and even  some fabled <--- fixed that for you.</blockquote>Are you kidding me, do you even play this game and have a level 80 character? </blockquote>As an example, good luck finding something better than the MC strength ring for that slot.I wear it since my lvl 72 and have yet to find an upgrade for my dps set.</blockquote><p>LOL, reccomendations from Master Coercer Vumael~</p><p>If you're a mage for rings try Burdened Signet and Reet Toe Ring / Painsmiths</p><p>If you're a scout (which I'm not) try Wind worn ring (+set bonus), Band of thuuga (fabled but quest reward), or Mark of Ankexfen</p><p>a further recommendation begin to realize that you're a dps class and pretty raw stats dont mean much next to effects, double attack, crit etc. most of the time, especially if you're getting buffs for dps as an example from other slots or members of your group (there is a diminishing returns curve.)</p><p>Go go EQ2flames~</p>

Vumael
10-03-2008, 12:34 PM
<cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite><blockquote><i>God forbid the casual player have access to decent gear.</i> <p><i>If you wanna sit there on a raid for hours to get your mythicals fine good but don't sit there and tell me I can't have decent gear because I don't follow your way of playing.</i> </p>Gratz on completely missing the point. Noone has complained crafters can make nice items. I have an amorer, jeweler, and tailor. The issue is mastercrafted is the best gear in the game except at level 80. Crafters shouldn't be making gear that trumps most legendary and fabled... even if it is tier 2. I guess SOE disagrees though.</blockquote>I understand the point completely.  Raiders don't want casuals to have anything because it hurts their ego.</blockquote>Raiders don't want casuals to have ***something better for a fraction of the effort because it makes no sense whatsoever***.Fixed for ya <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Basically you suggest ppl who work longer and harder should not be better rewarded ?</blockquote><p>No I suggest that raiding should not be the only option for good equipment.  I don't enjoy sitting for hours on end for the chance that maybe something I can use will drop and maybe I will win it.  </p><p>If it were up to me, this game would be a max of 12 person raid content so small guilds can enjoy the entire game without swearing allegiance to a cult uber guild.</p></blockquote><p>Unfortunately this wouldn't work in practice either.  You'd then still have guilds of people who play more often than you, know more about the game and run zones more frequently and can do content that is harder than what you can do because of their play regimes (and more teams of 12 people double and triple cleaning instances in teams and zoning into the others instances etc. for gear they needed.)</p><p>Higher Risk / Difficulty should always = Higher reward</p><p>Casual gamers don't and shouldn't have access to all the content and will never be on par with those who play more often nor should they, deal with it.</p>

Vumael
10-03-2008, 12:36 PM
<b></b><blockquote><cite>CuriousGnome wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hello everyone. Me and my guild have been discussing this for a while now, and after the last game update we all agree that the MC armor have become way to overpowered.Most people would agree with me that one of the reasons that one does instances, dungeons etc is to get better armor/weapons etc. But after the latest MC upgrade, what is the point ?Sure, you can do it for the aa and the experience, but a lot of the fun has been taken away now that there are no prices waiting for you at the end of that dungeon.It seems to me and many others that what SOE is doing is incurring pure level grinding, much like they have in Everquest 1. I dont see that as a good thing. If I wanted to level grind, I would have stayed in EQ 1.I think that most people would agree with me that Legendary drops and Fabled drops should be better than the mastercrafted. Sure, the MC armor/weapons should show that time and effort has been put into making that piece of equipment, but not at the cost of actually reducing the gameplay value of the entire game.Anyone else here agree with me, or have something to add ?</blockquote></blockquote><p>I think my guild could teach your guild a thing or two, to us MC is junk and would never be considered as wearable unless the toon was naked.  lol.</p>

Azekah1
10-03-2008, 12:38 PM
<cite>Vumael wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>Go go EQ2flames~</p></blockquote>Ugh...Going there is like trying to find a needle in a cess pool.

Vumael
10-03-2008, 12:40 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kordran wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>T8 mastercrafted is better then end game legendary and even  some fabled <--- fixed that for you.</blockquote>Are you kidding me, do you even play this game and have a level 80 character? </blockquote><p>well I raid VP on my Monk,  my 80 Swashbuckler /80 jeweler/400 transmuter has done a few raids =D</p><p> Oh and I just leveld a Ranger to 80</p><p>and a bunch of alts below that including a 76 Armorer </p><p>Yeah I profit from MC</p></blockquote><p>Ah you sound like someone who would have been in one of my guilds lol.  Just because you raid VP (as do I) doesn't mean you know anything.  EQ2 is at it's easiest state and making a statement such as you did suggests that you raid VP but are mostly carried through it and know little about the rest of the game or the mechanics.</p><p>Refer to my previous post for gear that is "end game" legendary better than MC.</p><p>Just because you sell a lot of MC gear means that the EQ2 economy functions much like the real economy.  There's a lot of useless junk out there that idiots buy because they don't know anything =p</p>

Vumael
10-03-2008, 12:41 PM
<cite>Azekah1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vumael wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>Go go EQ2flames~</p></blockquote>Ugh...Going there is like trying to find a needle in a cess pool.</blockquote><p>Well if you go to the class specific boards they actually do have some pretty well itemized information, class loot by structure, parse information, comparrsions etc.</p><p>Do a little better searching.</p>

Faenril
10-06-2008, 05:43 AM
<cite>Vumael wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kordran wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>T8 mastercrafted is better then end game legendary and even  some fabled <--- fixed that for you.</blockquote>Are you kidding me, do you even play this game and have a level 80 character? </blockquote>As an example, good luck finding something better than the MC strength ring for that slot.I wear it since my lvl 72 and have yet to find an upgrade for my dps set.</blockquote><p>LOL, reccomendations from Master Coercer Vumael~</p><p>If you're a mage for rings try Burdened Signet and Reet Toe Ring / Painsmiths</p><p>If you're a scout (which I'm not) try Wind worn ring (+set bonus), Band of thuuga (fabled but quest reward), or Mark of Ankexfen</p><p>a further recommendation begin to realize that you're a dps class and pretty raw stats dont mean much next to effects, double attack, crit etc. most of the time, especially if you're getting buffs for dps as an example from other slots or members of your group (there is a diminishing returns curve.)</p><p>Go go EQ2flames~</p></blockquote>Well, mentioning MC strength ring should give you a hint I'm not a mage...I wear Thuuga and Ankexfen (ear slot) btw.Sorry but unless in situations where my +dps mod is buffed through the roof from groupmates, I do not see the wind worn ring as an upgrade over the +30 dps proc from MC rin that's pretty much permanently up.

Vumael
10-07-2008, 05:13 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vumael wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kordran wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>T8 mastercrafted is better then end game legendary and even  some fabled <--- fixed that for you.</blockquote>Are you kidding me, do you even play this game and have a level 80 character? </blockquote>As an example, good luck finding something better than the MC strength ring for that slot.I wear it since my lvl 72 and have yet to find an upgrade for my dps set.</blockquote><p>LOL, reccomendations from Master Coercer Vumael~</p><p>If you're a mage for rings try Burdened Signet and Reet Toe Ring / Painsmiths</p><p>If you're a scout (which I'm not) try Wind worn ring (+set bonus), Band of thuuga (fabled but quest reward), or Mark of Ankexfen</p><p>a further recommendation begin to realize that you're a dps class and pretty raw stats dont mean much next to effects, double attack, crit etc. most of the time, especially if you're getting buffs for dps as an example from other slots or members of your group (there is a diminishing returns curve.)</p><p>Go go EQ2flames~</p></blockquote>Well, mentioning MC strength ring should give you a hint I'm not a mage...I wear Thuuga and Ankexfen (ear slot) btw.Sorry but unless in situations where my +dps mod is buffed through the roof from groupmates, I do not see the wind worn ring as an upgrade over the +30 dps proc from MC rin that's pretty much permanently up.</blockquote><p>Congratulations so in a post regarding how MC gear is OP you found the ONE piece that might be useful in practical terms over the other items in the game.  (Yes I saw the str ring comment also, but considering you even brought this up I figure I might take a shot in the dark there might be more you're ignorant about.)</p><p>LOL, why does someone always mention the "EXCEPTION" when the topic is about the "RULE."  Unfortunately this does not undermine the fact that MC gear is neither overpowered or practical as a general rule.</p>

Thunndar316
10-07-2008, 05:23 PM
<cite>Vumael wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite><blockquote><i>God forbid the casual player have access to decent gear.</i> <p><i>If you wanna sit there on a raid for hours to get your mythicals fine good but don't sit there and tell me I can't have decent gear because I don't follow your way of playing.</i> </p>Gratz on completely missing the point. Noone has complained crafters can make nice items. I have an amorer, jeweler, and tailor. The issue is mastercrafted is the best gear in the game except at level 80. Crafters shouldn't be making gear that trumps most legendary and fabled... even if it is tier 2. I guess SOE disagrees though.</blockquote>I understand the point completely.  Raiders don't want casuals to have anything because it hurts their ego.</blockquote>Raiders don't want casuals to have ***something better for a fraction of the effort because it makes no sense whatsoever***.Fixed for ya <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Basically you suggest ppl who work longer and harder should not be better rewarded ?</blockquote><p>No I suggest that raiding should not be the only option for good equipment.  I don't enjoy sitting for hours on end for the chance that maybe something I can use will drop and maybe I will win it.  </p><p>If it were up to me, this game would be a max of 12 person raid content so small guilds can enjoy the entire game without swearing allegiance to a cult uber guild.</p></blockquote><p>Unfortunately this wouldn't work in practice either.  You'd then still have guilds of people who play more often than you, know more about the game and run zones more frequently and can do content that is harder than what you can do because of their play regimes (and more teams of 12 people double and triple cleaning instances in teams and zoning into the others instances etc. for gear they needed.)</p><p>Higher Risk / Difficulty should always = Higher reward</p><p>Casual gamers don't and shouldn't have access to all the content and will never be on par with those who play more often nor should they, deal with it.</p></blockquote><p>Once again the point flies right over you head.  It's not about trying to burn through all the content as fast as possible so I can keep up with the power gamers.  It's about everybody being able to play all the content without having to assemble a small army.  </p><p>Casual players put just as many hours into the game as raiders.  They just don't spend there time sitting in one zone.  The only difference between you and a "casual" player is you choose to spend your time raiding, and they choose to spend their time grouping, soloing, crafting, chatting, or just vegging out in front of the broker.</p><p>You are no better than anybody else.  You are not special.</p>

Vumael
10-07-2008, 05:29 PM
<cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vumael wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite><blockquote><i>God forbid the casual player have access to decent gear.</i> <p><i>If you wanna sit there on a raid for hours to get your mythicals fine good but don't sit there and tell me I can't have decent gear because I don't follow your way of playing.</i> </p>Gratz on completely missing the point. Noone has complained crafters can make nice items. I have an amorer, jeweler, and tailor. The issue is mastercrafted is the best gear in the game except at level 80. Crafters shouldn't be making gear that trumps most legendary and fabled... even if it is tier 2. I guess SOE disagrees though.</blockquote>I understand the point completely.  Raiders don't want casuals to have anything because it hurts their ego.</blockquote>Raiders don't want casuals to have ***something better for a fraction of the effort because it makes no sense whatsoever***.Fixed for ya <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Basically you suggest ppl who work longer and harder should not be better rewarded ?</blockquote><p>No I suggest that raiding should not be the only option for good equipment.  I don't enjoy sitting for hours on end for the chance that maybe something I can use will drop and maybe I will win it.  </p><p>If it were up to me, this game would be a max of 12 person raid content so small guilds can enjoy the entire game without swearing allegiance to a cult uber guild.</p></blockquote><p>Unfortunately this wouldn't work in practice either.  You'd then still have guilds of people who play more often than you, know more about the game and run zones more frequently and can do content that is harder than what you can do because of their play regimes (and more teams of 12 people double and triple cleaning instances in teams and zoning into the others instances etc. for gear they needed.)</p><p>Higher Risk / Difficulty should always = Higher reward</p><p>Casual gamers don't and shouldn't have access to all the content and will never be on par with those who play more often nor should they, deal with it.</p></blockquote><p>Once again the point flies right over you head.  It's not about trying to burn through all the content as fast as possible so I can keep up with the power gamers.  It's about everybody being able to play all the content without having to assemble a small army.  </p><p>Casual players put just as many hours into the game as raiders.  They just don't spend there time sitting in one zone.  The only difference between you and a "casual" player is you choose to spend your time raiding, and they choose to spend their time grouping, soloing, crafting, chatting, or just vegging out in front of the broker.</p><p>You are no better than anybody else.  You are not special.</p></blockquote><p>Oh I got the point just fine, dummy up the game so everyone can do these things easier.</p><p>The point you don't get is that you have a CHOICE.  If you choose to not raid, and rather craft, chat, group, solo or veg out in front of the broker then you are CHOOSING to not get a mythical or whatever else it is you want from raiding.  It's really that simple.</p><p>What's more absurd?  Me suggesting that if you want a mythical or raid oriented loot to change the way you play, or you wanting the entire mechanics of the game to change based on how you play?</p><p>"You are no better than anybody else.  You are not special."  </p><p>- You might want to look in the mirror when you say that, since I'm not the one forcing anyone else to play by my standards or even suggesting it, nor am I blaming other people for my choices, you are.  I get what I have earned by how I've played and the choices I make and am happy with it, so stop acting as if you've earned the same thing because honestly you haven't.  You can't complain about what you don't have in this game if you're not making the choice to pursue it, it is available to you too, especially if you "put in the same hours."</p>

Thunndar316
10-07-2008, 06:07 PM
<cite>Vumael wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vumael wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite><blockquote><i>God forbid the casual player have access to decent gear.</i> <p><i>If you wanna sit there on a raid for hours to get your mythicals fine good but don't sit there and tell me I can't have decent gear because I don't follow your way of playing.</i> </p>Gratz on completely missing the point. Noone has complained crafters can make nice items. I have an amorer, jeweler, and tailor. The issue is mastercrafted is the best gear in the game except at level 80. Crafters shouldn't be making gear that trumps most legendary and fabled... even if it is tier 2. I guess SOE disagrees though.</blockquote>I understand the point completely.  Raiders don't want casuals to have anything because it hurts their ego.</blockquote>Raiders don't want casuals to have ***something better for a fraction of the effort because it makes no sense whatsoever***.Fixed for ya <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Basically you suggest ppl who work longer and harder should not be better rewarded ?</blockquote><p>No I suggest that raiding should not be the only option for good equipment.  I don't enjoy sitting for hours on end for the chance that maybe something I can use will drop and maybe I will win it.  </p><p>If it were up to me, this game would be a max of 12 person raid content so small guilds can enjoy the entire game without swearing allegiance to a cult uber guild.</p></blockquote><p>Unfortunately this wouldn't work in practice either.  You'd then still have guilds of people who play more often than you, know more about the game and run zones more frequently and can do content that is harder than what you can do because of their play regimes (and more teams of 12 people double and triple cleaning instances in teams and zoning into the others instances etc. for gear they needed.)</p><p>Higher Risk / Difficulty should always = Higher reward</p><p>Casual gamers don't and shouldn't have access to all the content and will never be on par with those who play more often nor should they, deal with it.</p></blockquote><p>Once again the point flies right over you head.  It's not about trying to burn through all the content as fast as possible so I can keep up with the power gamers.  It's about everybody being able to play all the content without having to assemble a small army.  </p><p>Casual players put just as many hours into the game as raiders.  They just don't spend there time sitting in one zone.  The only difference between you and a "casual" player is you choose to spend your time raiding, and they choose to spend their time grouping, soloing, crafting, chatting, or just vegging out in front of the broker.</p><p>You are no better than anybody else.  You are not special.</p></blockquote><p>Oh I got the point just fine, dummy up the game so everyone can do these things easier.</p><p>The point you don't get is that you have a CHOICE.  If you choose to not raid, and rather craft, chat, group, solo or veg out in front of the broker then you are CHOOSING to not get a mythical or whatever else it is you want from raiding.  It's really that simple.</p><p>What's more absurd?  Me suggesting that if you want a mythical or raid oriented loot to change the way you play, or you wanting the entire mechanics of the game to change based on how you play?</p><p>"You are no better than anybody else.  You are not special."  </p><p>- You might want to look in the mirror when you say that, since I'm not the one forcing anyone else to play by my standards or even suggesting it, nor am I blaming other people for my choices, you are.  I get what I have earned by how I've played and the choices I make and am happy with it, so stop acting as if you've earned the same thing because honestly you haven't.  You can't complain about what you don't have in this game if you're not making the choice to pursue it, it is available to you too, especially if you "put in the same hours."</p></blockquote><p>It's not about making the game easier.  It's about opening up more content to more people.  Lowering the amount of players required to do a raid from 24 to 18 or 24 to 12 doesn't change your style of play one bit.  All it does is open up more parts of the game for people who do not have the means of creating or do not wish to join a large guild.   </p><p>My way opens up the entire game to everybody.  The super duper l33t raiders will still be the best at raiding content, and the casuals will slowly chug along taking on one encounter at a time.  The raider crowd will burn through all the content and whine for more while the casuals slowly progress and just enjoy playing.  Not to mention enabling large guilds like I would assume you are in to be able to split up their forces and conquer more than one encounter in any given evening.  </p><p>Your way is the old way.  It divides the player base in half and causes 18 page rants like this one on message boards when there is no reason for it other than ego.   </p><p>I'm willing to bet that "Casual" players far outnumber the hardcore speed raiders and the first company to realize this and take advantage of it will be the one to have the superior selling MMO.  </p><p>Also this whole thing about choice is not that simple.  I can't log into the game and simply choose to raid.  I would have to sell my soul to the EQ2 l33t gods first.</p><p> Edit:  I would also like to add that EQ2 has taken many great strides in making the game more casual friendly as far as leveling your character.  It just needs to take another step forward and lower the bar for raiding.</p>

Vumael
10-07-2008, 06:30 PM
<cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vumael wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite></p><p><cite></cite>Oh I got the point just fine, dummy up the game so everyone can do these things easier.</p><p>The point you don't get is that you have a CHOICE.  If you choose to not raid, and rather craft, chat, group, solo or veg out in front of the broker then you are CHOOSING to not get a mythical or whatever else it is you want from raiding.  It's really that simple.</p><p>What's more absurd?  Me suggesting that if you want a mythical or raid oriented loot to change the way you play, or you wanting the entire mechanics of the game to change based on how you play?</p><p>"You are no better than anybody else.  You are not special."  </p><p>- You might want to look in the mirror when you say that, since I'm not the one forcing anyone else to play by my standards or even suggesting it, nor am I blaming other people for my choices, you are.  I get what I have earned by how I've played and the choices I make and am happy with it, so stop acting as if you've earned the same thing because honestly you haven't.  You can't complain about what you don't have in this game if you're not making the choice to pursue it, it is available to you too, especially if you "put in the same hours."</p></blockquote><p>It's not about making the game easier.  It's about opening up more content to more people.  Lowering the amount of players required to do a raid from 24 to 18 or 24 to 12 doesn't change your style of play one bit.  All it does is open up more parts of the game for people who do not have the means of creating or do not wish to join a large guild.   </p><p>My way opens up the entire game to everybody.  The super duper l33t raiders will still be the best at raiding content, and the casuals will slowly chug along taking on one encounter at a time.  The raider crowd will burn through all the content and whine for more while the casuals slowly progress and just enjoy playing.  Not to mention enabling large guilds like I would assume you are in to be able to split up their forces and conquer more than one encounter in any given evening.  </p><p>Your way is the old way.  It divides the player base in half and causes 18 page rants like this one on message boards when there is no reason for it other than ego.   </p><p>I'm willing to bet that "Casual" players far outnumber the hardcore speed raiders and the first company to realize this and take advantage of it will be the one to have the superior selling MMO.  </p><p>Also this whole thing about choice is not that simple.  I can't log into the game and simply choose to raid.  I would have to sell my soul to the EQ2 l33t gods first.</p><p> Edit:  I would also like to add that EQ2 has taken many great strides in making the game more casual friendly as far as leveling your character.  It just needs to take another step forward and lower the bar for raiding.</p></blockquote><p>You are opening up the game more by making it easier, simply put.  It would require less organization and overall skill to make accomplishments by requiring fewer people.  You would still end up having the same problem because the raiders are generally better players and there would be items they could get even with 12 people that you simply couldn't from not playing as well.</p><p>Your assumption that lowering raid requirements would make the game better is a false one.  EQ1 had unlimited / larger raid sizes as does WoW and both are far more successful than EQ2 has been.  What game companies such as SOE should realize is that people do not want an easy game where you can get everything done, people stop playing if they have nothing to do.</p><p>People such as yourself will always want to get more accomplished, but simply can't because of the choices you make and the lack of time played, meaning you will never be satisfied and always find a niche as you have, so how difficult the top tiers of the game are are somewhat irrelevant to you.  The casual gamers can right now "chug along" at raids if they have the organization to do so, which unfortunately most don't they would rather complain than actually make associations and raid.</p><p>Again, you have a choice, raid and get a mythical with the game as it is now (extremely easy) or don't and don't get one.  It's your choice, but don't push your ideal mechanics on us when unfortunately they aren't practical and only seem so by your play schedule.</p>

tass
10-07-2008, 08:26 PM
lol just read the first post and i'll take some of what that guys smokin. I can truthfully state once you hit the upper 60's and 72 mc is your only defence. And Im talking about the lowest defense, cause even with mc your gonna get chewed up. If a tank doesn't even have that they don't get the grp. In fact if anything id say mc needs to be upped.

Lleren
10-11-2008, 08:45 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kordran wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite><blockquote>When you suggest that the same progression exists, and should exist, once you hit the level cap, but that it is gear orientated, they scoff, and say that they should be able to have the best gear in the game, supposedly because they are now level 80, so progression is now over.</blockquote><p>No one is scoffing at that. That <b><i>already exists</i></b> in the game as it is now. <u><b>T8 mastercrafted is not better than any of the end-game legendary and certainly doesn't even come remotely close to the fabled.</b></u> That progression is there, it is already in place and it's working just fine, thank you. Where it can be argued that mastercrafted is better than some legendary or fabled is only in the lower tiers, tiers that players are (by and large) blowing through anyway. So what exactly is the point that you're trying to make? That players should be required to "progress" through lower tier instances and raids to get decent gear as they prepare for the next tier?</p><p>To put it more bluntly: why the heck should anyone care if T4 feysteel armor is better than some legendary drop from Varsoon? Most people are level 30-40 for all of what? 2 days /played, if that? You're doing all of this chest thumping "it's the way it should be, they're not following proper progression!" over some trivial issue that arguably (and temporarily) only benefits lower level players. Big deal.</p></blockquote><p>T8 mastercrafted is better then end game legendary and even  some fabled <--- fixed that for you.</p><p> To the <b><u>melee player</u></b> trying to squeeze as much DPS as possible out of thier character, mastercrafted is in many cases a better choice then legendary instance drops or quest rewards.  All of the fabled drops are better then mastercrafted in terms of survivabilty, but many fail to be better in terms of DPS generation.  </p><p>That is right the almighty DPS, thats what half the folks are there for in your instance group.  The thing is they are likely after rare drop x and have to run this instace anywhere from 1 time to 150 times or more to actually see the drop and win it, or buy loot rights</p></blockquote>Since some of my comments seem to be quoted slightly out of centext for greater flameability, please note the bolded underlined parts. 

Lleren
10-11-2008, 08:52 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I would say some Legendary and Fabled items are underpowerered in comparison to the Mastercrafted currently available, and thats all the way into the current tier.  Several times I have been asked for gear advice to help another <b><u>scout</u></b> up thier DPS and often times I have to recomend replacing a higher level piece of legendary or even a  fabled piece, with the same tiers mastercrafted.   Sure there are a few Legendary pieces that are great and hard to replace even for a raiding toon, and some Fabled blows any other piece away for that class.  </p><p> Some of this I am sure will be changed in the upcoming expansion, I expect and hope to see Legendary that blows away mastercrafted for every slot, and some new Fabled to blow those pieces away =D</p><p>Steal the Cheese!!!</p></blockquote>note scout

Lleren
10-11-2008, 09:05 AM
<cite>Vumael wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kordran wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>T8 mastercrafted is better then end game legendary and even  some fabled <--- fixed that for you.</blockquote>Are you kidding me, do you even play this game and have a level 80 character? </blockquote><p>well I raid VP on my Monk,  my 80 Swashbuckler /80 jeweler/400 transmuter has done a few raids =D</p><p> Oh and I just leveld a Ranger to 80</p><p>and a bunch of alts below that including a 76 Armorer </p><p>Yeah I profit from MC</p></blockquote><p>Ah you sound like someone who would have been in one of my guilds lol.  Just because you raid VP (as do I) doesn't mean you know anything.  EQ2 is at it's easiest state and making a statement such as you did suggests that you raid VP but are mostly carried through it and know little about the rest of the game or the mechanics.</p><p>Refer to my previous post for gear that is "end game" legendary better than MC.</p><p>Just because you sell a lot of MC gear means that the EQ2 economy functions much like the real economy.  There's a lot of useless junk out there that idiots buy because they don't know anything =p</p></blockquote><p>Actually I'm one of the folks that save the raid and get near the top of the parse on tier 2 and 3 dps classes.  Now casters, I don't know much at all about casters and wouldn't recomend anything for them, instead I'd refer em to friendly casters that blow my dps out of the water.  </p><p>That End Game Legendary quote that everyone seems to be taking such an interest in is slightly out of context .   Half of the 77 legendary sets or more for mellee dps is a downgrade compared to the level 72 mastercrafted.  I was not refering to the one or two legendary or fabled drops everyone is going for when they run those instances, I was refering to the 10 other drops in that zone that are useless <censored> but wearable.  pleae note the post from near the beginning of the thread I quoted in another recent responce</p>