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View Full Version : [Suggestion] Bring back the old class system please!


Ruly
09-22-2008, 08:50 AM
<p>OK, i know this wont be a very formal proposal, but im pressed for time and i wanted to get this up for discussion before i forgot</p><p>Ok, to start off, i play on Najena, and many many many times the matter of how the game used to be run and what old concepts are missed comes up in the 1-10 channel for discussion. Over the last few weeks, i have noticed that the idea of the old class system seems to come back every time these discussions start. As a player from near release, i liked and really miss the old system of having to quest to advance to your next step up, as does what seems to be the majority of those who played prior to LU#19 ( i believe thats the one that got rid of that system ). This thread is to be a petition/discussion sort of thing, so please no flaming =). If you like the idea and think it should be spread to other servers for discussion to see if it should be brought back, please do so, or refer in a post to this thread.</p><p>My proposal - after a period of discussion time, if the majority of the gaming community would like the system brought back, i ask that Sony listen to our pleas and bring it back. If you (Sony) are not able to, could you please give us a reason why?</p><p>Many Thanks</p><p>Laasheugoith - 36 Illusionist</p><p>Koalenan - 30 Ranger</p><p>Najena Server</p>

Ildarus
09-22-2008, 09:22 AM
<cite>Ruly wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Ok, to start off, i play on Najena, and many many many times the matter of how the game used to be run and what old concepts are missed comes up in the 1-10 channel for discussion. Over the last few weeks, i have noticed that the idea of the old class system seems to come back every time these discussions start. As a player from near release, i liked and really miss the old system of having to quest to advance to your next step up, as does what <b><span style="color: #ffff00;">seems to be the majority of those who played prior to LU#19</span></b> ( i believe thats the one that got rid of that system ). This thread is to be a petition/discussion sort of thing, so please no flaming =). If you like the idea and think it should be spread to other servers for discussion to see if it should be brought back, please do so, or refer in a post to this thread.</p><p>My proposal - after a period of discussion time, if the majority of the gaming community would like the system brought back, i ask that Sony listen to our pleas and bring it back. If you (Sony) are not able to, could you please give us a reason why?</p></blockquote><p>Oh my, it is always good to have a laugh in the morning. I vote NO!!!!! </p><p>You say you have been around since before LU#19 and yet this is the first time you posted and the only toons you have listed are level 30ish. I am going to assume this is not your only account. </p><p>Look I can do it too, they took away the class system because that is what the MAJORITY wanted. See that, I said the majority wanted it. How do you know what the majority is when there are a 100,000 plus players? Truthfully, though, I don't know anyone that liked the class system. Besides, it is the first 20 levels of the game which can be gone through in a few hours. By putting the class system back in, all you are adding is a wall to leveling.</p><p>To this day the class system still rears it's ugly head. So many people think because they have a "fighter" class that they should be able to MT a raid or because they were a "Sorcerer" that they should all be able to do the DPS of a wizard. That is what the class system did. To me each of the current day classes are different and should be kept that way. They should not be lumped into a "class" or group.</p>

steelbadger
09-22-2008, 10:27 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ruly wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Ok, to start off, i play on Najena, and many many many times the matter of how the game used to be run and what old concepts are missed comes up in the 1-10 channel for discussion. Over the last few weeks, i have noticed that the idea of the old class system seems to come back every time these discussions start. As a player from near release, i liked and really miss the old system of having to quest to advance to your next step up, as does what <b><span style="color: #ffff00;">seems to be the majority of those who played prior to LU#19</span></b> ( i believe thats the one that got rid of that system ). This thread is to be a petition/discussion sort of thing, so please no flaming =). If you like the idea and think it should be spread to other servers for discussion to see if it should be brought back, please do so, or refer in a post to this thread.</p><p>My proposal - after a period of discussion time, if the majority of the gaming community would like the system brought back, i ask that Sony listen to our pleas and bring it back. If you (Sony) are not able to, could you please give us a reason why?</p></blockquote><p>Oh my, it is always good to have a laugh in the morning. I vote NO!!!!! </p><p>You say you have been around since before LU#19 and yet this is the first time you posted and the only toons you have listed are level 30ish. I am going to assume this is not your only account. </p><p>Look I can do it too, they took away the class system because that is what the MAJORITY wanted. See that, I said the majority wanted it. How do you know what the majority is when there are a 100,000 plus players? Truthfully, though, I don't know anyone that liked the class system. Besides, it is the first 20 levels of the game which can be gone through in a few hours. By putting the class system back in, all you are adding is a wall to leveling.</p><p>To this day the class system still rears it's ugly head. So many people think because they have a "fighter" class that they should be able to MT a raid or because they were a "Sorcerer" that they should all be able to do the DPS of a wizard. That is what the class system did. To me each of the current day classes are different and should be kept that way. They should not be lumped into a "class" or group.</p></blockquote>When I started playing I created a mage, because I wasn't sure what I wanted to do; after a while I found I could specialize, and the specialization options where described to me in terms of what they could do, because I had spent some time playing a mage I had some idea of what I wanted to specialize in and the same again when I got to choose wizzy/warlock.Of course that was 3 years ago now and that character went the way of the dodo, because I didn't want to play a mage at all, I wanted something scouty.The massive benefit of the archetype-class-subclass system was that it allowed you and your character to grow into one-another.  As it is now you pick a class and hope it's fun whereas the archetype system allowed for you to make the same decisions but on the basis of at least a little experience.I think  the archetype system was a great way of allowing people to choose their class incrementally.Of course the speed of levelling now makes it unreasonable...  but I'd prefer for the levelling speed to be reduced anywayI found one of my low level alts still had their Qeynos Citizenship Quest coin in their inventory.  That brought back some great memories...

Jardon
09-22-2008, 11:38 AM
<p>Many of us know what class we want to play from the start.</p><p>I like the current system, where you pick you class at level 1, and you start getting your class specific spells at level one, and getting used to them as you level.</p><p>I remember way back when when you got a spell between 1 and 20, and after you picked your final class you did not have that spell any more, and it was like, well that was a waste learning how to use that, because it is gone now.</p><p>And gear, you picked a guardian at level 1, and had wear stinking leather armor until level 10, and chain until level 20, before you finally got that shinny plate at 20.</p>

Natturabi
09-22-2008, 11:52 AM
<p>  I vote no for two reasons</p><p>1)  I remember some of the quests being kind of obscure for new players.  Even tho I had the Prima strategy guide I had no idea that I had to find a building in North Qeynos where the secret society was meeting (for example). Very perplexing to have to find things out as a total newb (just to advance the game), and could lead to just giving up out of frustration.</p><p> 2)  Some of the quests were actually challenging for people with little or no skills.  I remember when me and a friend were leveling up some young Clerics.  We get to 19th level and are working on becoming full fledged templars, which required a trip through the heroic sewers.  Being prepared and in a duo we had no problems doing what we had to do.  However on our trip we met a less fortunate cleric who was undergeared (and what gear he had was totally broken) and probably had countless spirit shards everywhere.  This guy had a zero percent chance of ever becoming a cleric, because eventually you had to do a solo zone.  I don't know if this guy ended up quitting EQ2, but I'm guessing he was not enjoying himself.</p><p>  And yeah they could change it so they are doable and more easy to understand, but then what would be the point then anyway.  </p>

Aurumn
09-22-2008, 11:57 AM
Not that I was around for the good ole days of class selection, but I don't see an appreciable benefit to reinstating it now when you can level to 20 in a few sessions. It would basically amount to tossing in a couple more quests between 1 and 20 for the same result.

Iamken
09-22-2008, 11:57 AM
<p>"our pleas"?</p><p> No thanks. I like the idea of being specialized from the start.</p>

Enica
09-22-2008, 11:59 AM
I have played and quit this game off and on since release.  I'm happiest with the state of the game right now and I'm having a blast.  Having said that, I vote no on the original class system.  I found it very frustrating.  I knew in the beginning that I wanted to be an assassin.  I didn't want to go through 20 levels of being just another scout, but I had to.

Yimway
09-22-2008, 12:02 PM
Orriginal class system = TOTAL FAILURECurrent System makes sense.To explain briefly, under the orriginal system you had to get to level 34 before you had a full set of class specific spells / arts.  Meaning (at release) you had several hundred hours invested before you ever got a feel for what your class was like.  This was a horrible system and the new specialized at the start system makes much more sense.

LordPazuzu
09-22-2008, 12:08 PM
I played prior to LU19.  I played at launch actually.  I was totally in favor of removing the old class system.  I much prefer being able to try a new class right off the bat rather then play the same generic classes for 20 levels first.  I also feel that archtype-based class systems are poor game design and one of the largest flaws EQ2 continues to suffer from.  Because of this initial class system, you get several *sub*classes lumped together that really have no business being related to one another.  Ranger/Assassin and Conjuror/Necromancer being the most notable.  They don't even bother to classify Assassins with the Rangers on the character creation screen anymore, they lump them in with rogue classes which is where they really belonged all along anyway.  Conjurors and Necomancers are classified together as summoners.  The classes are completely unrelated in concept, they just happen to both use pets. Mechanically similar, conceptually completely unrelated.  Death Magic vs. Elemental Conjuration-  It's forcing a square peg into a round hole lumping them together for the sake of making the archtype system neat and tidy.  Conceptually Conjurors have more in common with Wizards and Necros more in common with Warlocks, but the old class system does not take this into account.

Jinya
09-22-2008, 12:30 PM
Just as a note, the old system also didn't make much sense from a gameplay perspective either. Why when going from a Fighter, to a Brawler, to a Monk, would I forget how to use swords and such? Why would I conveniently forget various abilities all of a sudden? If you can make THAT make sense, please do. But until the system could come back and actually make sense, then it should stay gone.

tujiro
09-22-2008, 12:44 PM
<p>Personally I liked the old system.  Was fun and let you make sure that was the class that you wanted to play.</p><p>As for forgetting how to use your sword, that's easy.  When you start to specialize in your class (monk for example) you basicly decide that the sword is not for you so you drop the skill in it because you're not going to use it.  It's not that you forget, you just don't skill up in it because it's not what you use/specialize in.  It's like the math you learned in highschool.  You don't use it every day, so you forget how to do it.</p><p>T</p>

liveja
09-22-2008, 12:57 PM
<p>I loved the old system, & was dismayed when SOE got rid of it.</p><p>Of course, I also liked shared XP debt & shard recoveries, too, & I can't help feeling as if the removal of all those old school mechanics was the beginning of EQ2's "carebear nerfage."</p><p>Perhaps some tweakage of these old school mechanics was necessary, but I think that simply getting rid of them was tantamount to tossing the baby with the bathwater.</p>

Lorzus
09-22-2008, 01:11 PM
The only thing I really miss from the old class quests, is the solo instances to become the next tier of whatever class you chose. The rewards were great (at the time) and it gave a sense of accomplishment. I'd like to see those quests restored for the people who chose not to level in TD. But as far as leveling a generic class to 20 no thanks.

Kordran
09-22-2008, 01:15 PM
<p>The problem is that for some classes, the progression simply did not make sense. The most prominent example was the Fighter > Crusader > Shadowknight, where the SK would have virtually nothing in common with the mechanics of the Crusader class, which played like a Paladin. To a lesser extent you had the same kind of thing with the summoners, who would start with a Wizard's playstyle, and so on.</p><p>The class progression and quests were neat ... once. But when you're on your 6th alt and you know what you want to play, they were nothing but a tedious roadblock.</p>

Curs3
09-22-2008, 01:21 PM
probably going against the majority but I'd have to say I liked it.  It allowed new people to pick pretty much what they wanted.  And if you didnt, you get to switch on the fly until you find it what you want.  It was really nice, now new people have to play the character for a week to decide.  Where as before they only decide the archtype.  It is a working system, worked in other games and noone complained about it..

Giral
09-22-2008, 01:35 PM
<p> once again i never heard or saw anyone in the game ever complain about the way it was back at release </p><p>you see back then by the time you got a character to level 20 it took quite a wyle</p><p>and also back then most people didnt play ALT's they started the game, they wanted to be a Mage type class , they got some brief idea's of the differances , and they had some time to decide what they wanted to become, wyle playing the game they could ask others what they liked disliked about the mage classes and then chose what direction they wanted to go ... </p><p>i have to assume the Deveolpers changed it for 2 reasons, 1) to interest new players , and 2) to appease the people who had level capped toon or 2 (back then) so they would stop whining about having to do the 1-20 Grind on Alts   with the very slow level rate back then it wasnt normal for people to have more then 1 level capped alt ,and also it was the way the game was created and many people prefer to actualy play the game the way its designed,  i liked the initial system ,,but then i dont care to play Alts(even tho i have of them lol cuase endcap is always boring same few instances and raids repeatedly , either role an Alt or quit at that point) </p><p>it doesnt realy matter anymore becuase you can be lvl 20 in just a few hours of play, if you dont like the class, you just delete it and start a new one.</p><p>that said i wouldnt mind an option to do the original way with the quests so some people that are undecided about what they want to play could get to play around with the diffrent types of the class and make a decision at lvl 20 </p><p>funny thing is i also see alot of people on forums say " they should make AA paths branch so poeple can choose what they want to be,... Example : all tanks are Warriors, but you use your AA's to turn yourself into a Paladin by choosing AA's that give you healing abilties,,etc,,, its the opposite side of the coin , instead of doing it at the begining they want you to do it at the end ,  either way at least the original idea and the aa idea allow you to make Chioces about your class , and chioces add that  feeling like your deciding what you become,and imo thats  better then copy /paste linear gameplay </p>

Yimway
09-22-2008, 01:43 PM
<cite>Giralus wrote:</cite><blockquote><p> once again i never heard or saw anyone in the game ever complain about the way it was back at release </p></blockquote>Guess you didn't notice the roughly 120k subscriptions that didn't stick with the game more than a few months.It was an overly painful and arderious task to find a class that suited you cause you had to get to darn well level 30 to have an idea how the class played.I would have left the game entirely at that point except for some very strong RL friendships kept me in, and my 3rd toon to 30 turned out to be a fit, but I have to say I hated the class quests the first time I did them, and that fealing didn't grow warmer with repeating them.  But class quests aside, it simply was the dumbest mmo idea I've seen to require so many hours invested into a character before you learned what they were like.  Period, anyway you slice it, that was a bad idea.  Now you can try out any class and in a couple hours of play have a decent idea what it will be like to continue with the class.

Spyderbite
09-22-2008, 01:46 PM
<cite>tujiro wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Was fun and let you make sure that was the class that you wanted to play.</p></blockquote>Actually that mechanic is already in place. Play for two hours and if you don't like the class, delete it and create a new one. Either way you're spending 2-4 hours to level 20. Not to mention the fact that the OP's idea will just quadruple the number of "Which class should I play?" questions in the newbie forum.

Dasein
09-22-2008, 02:15 PM
What would be a good compromise is to create a series of class-specific quests running from about level 10 through level 20 that give you an overview of your class and what it can accomplish, both solo and in a group. Perhaps give a level 20 version of the class hats as a reward.

Yimway
09-22-2008, 02:20 PM
<cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote>What would be a good compromise is to create a series of class-specific quests running from about level 10 through level 20 that give you an overview of your class and what it can accomplish, both solo and in a group. Perhaps give a level 20 version of the class hats as a reward. </blockquote>Oh, I'm all for a quest / reward that gives something really nice at level 20ish for being able to excell at playing that class.  It should be hard, and genuinely require being good at the class to earn.However, this will also likely just generate whining about not being able to do x with y.But, class quests that require the player base to really learn to excell at the class instead of clicing solo quests and rolling their head across the keyboard to kill mobs is a great idea in my book.

Iseabeil
09-22-2008, 03:06 PM
<p>The part I miss the most is the class quests, the storyline in particular. They werent epic, but they were fun and pretty unique at the time. They wouldnt need to redo the archetype based system to re-introdue those tho. </p><p>I still got my 'Path of the Illusionist' quest in my journal :p</p>