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Kendell
06-16-2008, 05:14 PM
<p><b>Hey all my guild on butcher block just reached level 51. Know before we reached level 51 we were getting 1exp point for every 1000 status points contributed the the guild fromHeritage quests and writs. The minute we hit 51 it switched to were we get 1 exp point per Heritage quest we do and .5 exp point for each writ. Know we have been around for awhile. And I really think the soe has made a big mess up in the game for smaller guilds. they are as follows:</b></p><p><b>1) took out the Heritage quests with the release of ROK.</b></p><p><b>2) are making EQ2 more of a game for raiders then you average player.</b></p><p><b>3) havent changed the leveling of guilds by status points when it should be a gradual increase in the amount of status points not a instant</b></p><p><b>They should bring back the HQs so that we have more to get guild status with. Know I am not complaining about raiding guilds so please dont say I am what I am saying is that they need to make it a equal playing field for both raiding guilds and nonraiding guilds. The should make it so you can chose if your going to be a raiding guild or nonraiding guild and by the one you chose you get status point different ways. both types of guilds can get status from Hqs and writs but raiding guilds also can get status from rkilling names in raid zones 2 groups or more and make it were nonraiding guilds get status from killing nonraid instant names were you need one group. that would make that part equal playing field. Know on the guild status points the should take and make it something like what follows:</b></p><p><b>level 1-19 1 exp per 500 status points contributed</b></p><p><b>level 20-39 1 exp per 750 status points contributed</b></p><p><b>level 40 -49 1 exp per 1000 status points contributed</b></p><p><b>level 50-59 1 exp per 2000 status points contributed</b></p><p><b>level 60-69 1 exp per 4000 status points contributed</b></p><p><b>level 70-79 1 exp per 6000status points contributed</b></p><p><b>level 80-89 1 exp per 8000 status points contributed</b></p><p><b>level 90 -99 1 exp per 10000 status points contributed</b></p><p><b>To me that would make it easyer for guilds to know exactly what we have to do to obtain each set of levels and make it a gradual change from each set of levels. Please level comments on what you think maybe we can get them to change a few things to make it a more fair of a playing field for the different size guilds.</b></p><p><b>Thanks</b></p><p><b>Leader or Uber Clan on Butcherblock server</b></p><p><b>Kendell</b></p>

Cele
06-16-2008, 05:18 PM
<p>HUH?!?!  I thought you got a flat 10% guild status for all the writs and HQs you do, regardless of your level or the guild leve.</p><p>What am I missing?</p>

Jesdyr
06-16-2008, 05:26 PM
<cite>Celena wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>What am I missing?</p></blockquote>The amount of SP needed to level changes greatly at some levels. This is because of Old level caps. <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=420823" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">THis post not to long ago explains it</a>However, as much of a pain as it is. I dont think it should be changed. I think the system is fine as is.

Oh
06-16-2008, 06:08 PM
<cite>Celena wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>HUH?!?!  I thought you got a flat 10% guild status for all the writs and HQs you do, regardless of your level or the guild leve.</p><p>What am I missing?</p></blockquote><p>Yea kind of, what the major changing thing is the amount of status needed for each level of the guild. Also the level of the status item also effects if your guild will or won't get some status from turning it in. For example a level 50 guild i can turn in level 20 status items but the guild won't get status, yet I can still do level 20 rush order writs and the guild will get status from it. Granted the guild status bar barely moves but thats more a reflection of the sheer volumn of status required.</p><p>Also to the OP you can still do HQ's and your guild will get status trust me I've done it like a few days ago and my guild is currently level 54. I do agree that there shouldn't be such huge level curves required because effectivly it just makes it harder on smaller guilds espically if they don't raid, and I personally don't think that raiding should be "required" to level a guild. That is really the crux of the problem.</p>

Kendricke
06-16-2008, 07:28 PM
<cite>Ohiv wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>I do agree that there shouldn't be such huge level curves required because effectivly it just makes it harder on smaller guilds espically if they don't raid, and I personally don't think that raiding should be "required" to level a guild. That is really the crux of the problem.</p></blockquote>A level 80 writ is worth 13,000 personal status (1300 guild status).  A full set of four writs is worth 52,000 personal status (5,200 guild status).  A full group of level 80's with four writs each is able to pull in 31,200 guild status per run.  With a full group of level 80's from the same faction, a group can complete all four of those writs in approximately 15 minutes from the time they pick them up at Dreg's Landing till the time they travel to Jarsath and finishing killing their targets.  If they have their Workman hammer quests completed, they can cut their travel time down dramatically.  Add in a couple of evacuators and the group can be back at Dreg's in less than 60 seconds.  Even if I gave the group extra time to spare, a competent group of level 80's should be able to easily clear three full runs of writs in an hour.  Show me the raid - ANY raid - that allows for 15,600 guild status per raider per hour.  In fact, please show me ANY raid that allows for a total of 93,600 status for 24 raiders in an hour.  By the way, if you think those numbers are impressive, wait till you see the calculations for level 80 tradeskill writs...

Kendell
06-16-2008, 07:32 PM
<p>This post is basicaly about the level curve which is the problem of the guild. All I am saying is that the need to make it go aliitle smother from level 50 to level 80 instead of going from 100,000 contributed status points at level 50 to 4,000,000 contribued status points I mean that is ridiculas. I think that is should be a more graduale curve.</p>

Valdaglerion
06-16-2008, 08:20 PM
<p>The amount of GSP needed for a guild to level from 51-61 is a huge drop, your efforts get nerfed by 75% basically once you get 51. The writs that were bumping your guild up 1.2% each are now giving your guild .3% each, it actually gets worse before you hit 60, we are now getting .2% per TS writ at T8 (These writs give you 1500 GSP per completion).</p><p>It is doubtful that small guilds (those with less than 15 people that dont raid) will ever see 80 so the guild level cap and guild halls for those guilds is basically end game. It wont matter if they ever level cap them again. What will undoubtedly change will be the mindset of small guild people. Loyalty to a guild will have to be decided if there are things you want to get in-game which require guild status but oh wait, if you leave your guild currently you lose all your GSP and start over anyway which means grinding back up again in another guild. </p><p>Ill thought out implementations FTL. Guild leaders cried about de-leveling when people left so SOE made it to where now players are hostage in their guild unless they want to start over and guilds get all the goodies from those players so they dont care if you leave (of course raiding guilds differ).</p><p>A little off topic but that always rubs me the wrong way. Back on topic - you can make more GSP from writs in the same time over HQ's. The amount of status you get from HQ's is so meager its really not even a blip on the radar comparitively. Go do Thorn of Old (which was my last HQ to be completed). It takes momumentous hours including multiple raids at the end of it for about 90k in status, a whopping 9k in GSP. woot? I make 1500GSP in TS writs every 6 minutes so in less than a hour I am going to make almost twice the GSP that HQ will. The amount of GSP from HQ's should have been amped up a long time ago. Side note, I wish they would have addd a few more in with Rok, along with creature catalog quests which are missing, etc.</p><p>And yes, for the record I feel smaller guilds have gotten the shaft from SOE. It started when they changed GSP contrbution percentages to 10% across the board for every guild and has gone downhill since. They realized larger guilds would level through the new cap too quickly under those rules so they merely increased the total numbers needed to level for the 61-70 and 71-80 tiers beyond what smaller guilds will ever do.</p>

Cele
06-16-2008, 08:32 PM
<cite>Ohiv wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Celena wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>HUH?!?!  I thought you got a flat 10% guild status for all the writs and HQs you do, regardless of your level or the guild leve.</p><p>What am I missing?</p></blockquote><p>Yea kind of, what the major changing thing is the amount of status needed for each level of the guild. Also the level of the status item also effects if your guild will or won't get some status from turning it in. For example a level 50 guild i can turn in level 20 status items but the guild won't get status, yet I can still do level 20 rush order writs and the guild will get status from it. Granted the guild status bar barely moves but thats more a reflection of the sheer volumn of status required.</p><p>Also to the OP you can still do HQ's and your guild will get status trust me I've done it like a few days ago and my guild is currently level 54. I do agree that there shouldn't be such huge level curves required because effectivly it just makes it harder on smaller guilds espically if they don't raid, and I personally don't think that raiding should be "required" to level a guild. That is really the crux of the problem.</p></blockquote><p>This makes less than zero sense to me.  My level 80 toon gets 10% of her points for 80 crafting writs and 81-82 adventure writs.  So does my level 60-something.</p><p>10% os 10%</p><p>edit cuz I cant type</p>

Kendell
06-18-2008, 11:20 AM
come on everyone we need your opinion if we are going to get them to change the guild leveling curve.

interstellarmatter
06-18-2008, 11:35 AM
<p>Didn't they just change it so names in instances give status points?  I haven't tried it yet but I'm assuming that you can grind out guild status points faster in instances than raids now.  Could be wrong.  </p><p>The leveling curve in the 50s is steep but doable.  Just enjoy the fact that your guild still has something to work for...after 80..guild status points don't mean anything.</p>

Kizee
06-18-2008, 11:40 AM
<p>People should really read the patch notes before they complain about something. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> Not like guild level is important anyways.</p><p><b>ZONES</b></p><ul><li>The bosses of a number of group instances now give status when killed.-Chelsith-Charasis: Maiden's Chamber-Charasis: Vault of Eternal Sleep-Crypt of Agony-Court of Korucust-Shard of Fear-Estate of Unrest-Crypt of Valdoon-Obelisk of Blight-The Acadechism-Court of Innovation-Halls of Fate-Den of the Devourer-Blackscale Sepulcher-Nest of the Great Egg-Vault of El'Arad-Cazel's Mesa-Scornfeather Roost </li><li><i>Sanctum of the Scaleborn</i>The Sanctum Trial Stone will now drop off of gray con Droag mobs in the Sanctum of Scaleborn. </li><li><i>Shard of Hate</i>Some of the more powerful raid encounters in the Shard of Hate  should now give status rewards when killed. </li><li>The Eye of the Sisterhood is now being held by Demetrius Crane in the Shard of Hate, rather than Master P`Tasa.</li></ul>

Morgane
06-18-2008, 11:46 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>come on everyone we need your opinion if we are going to get them to change the guild leveling curve.</blockquote><p>My opinion? Yeah, it sucks for the smaller guilds. Between the effort of leveling the guild in the 50/60 range and needing 24 people to raid high-end content, people in mom & pop guilds have very little incentive other than loyalty to their guild members. Sure, you have something to work towards but after grinding writ after writ after writ in a small guild it can get a little dishearting, not to mention boring. </p><p>On the other hand... wow! what a feeling when your small, 20 member guild finally hits the guild level cap! Any small guild out there actually been able to experience this, I wonder? LOL</p>

Kizee
06-18-2008, 12:13 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>come on everyone we need your opinion if we are going to get them to change the guild leveling curve.</blockquote><p>My opinion? Yeah, it sucks for the smaller guilds. Between the effort of leveling the guild in the 50/60 range and needing 24 people to raid high-end content, people in mom & pop guilds have very little incentive other than loyalty to their guild members. Sure, you have something to work towards but after grinding writ after writ after writ in a small guild it can get a little dishearting, not to mention boring. </p><p>On the other hand... wow! what a feeling when your small, 20 member guild finally hits the guild level cap! Any small guild out there actually been able to experience this, I wonder? LOL</p></blockquote><p>Before I raided our 12 person non raiding casual guild ground writs from 50-60 and were actually the second on server to get that level. The guild that got level 60 first were also grinding writs but they had more groups out so of course they leveled faster.</p><p>Guild levels have nothing to do with being a raider or not.... it has everything to do with setting a goal and working towards it as a guild.</p><p>To the OP.....Quit asking to make the game easier.</p>

Errolflynn
06-18-2008, 12:14 PM
My guild has less than 10 active members but we have still managed to get to guild level 63.

Qandor
06-18-2008, 12:19 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>come on everyone we need your opinion if we are going to get them to change the guild leveling curve.</blockquote><p>Seriously doubt that will ever happen. It would be a mess to tinker with it at this late date. The curve is currently heavily weighted toward the high end. Normalization would result in some of that required GSP being shifted lower. This would result in guilds being de-leveled in some cases. Doubt they would want to stir that up. </p><p>An overall reduction in GSP for levels would just trivialize the guild levels for the larger guilds. I have a rather different take on the issue, although I am not really anxious to get into that same old argument again. However, in a nutshell, I feel the biggest mistake was tieing personal rewards, mounts, houses, etc. to guild level. Personal rewards should be earned solely through the accumulation of personal status. Guild rewards, ie rewards for the guild as a whole, should be based on guild level such as the the guild cloaks and forthcoming guild halls. The problem has always been that they never developed much in the way of guild specific rewards and relied solely on personal rewards to fill that gap. </p><p>With the system we have now, an individual can work his butt off in a smaller guild and never be able to access many of the nicer personal rewards. Meanwhile, someone can get an invite to a high level guild, having done relatively little work at all, and the world is his oyster. That is the problem with the current system and that is why many people in smaller guilds feel like second class citizens.</p>

Morgane
06-18-2008, 12:46 PM
<cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>To the OP.....Quit asking to make the game easier.</p></blockquote>Pffft. This is a "discussion" forum. Where people discuss. Your opinion may differ from the OP's but nevertheless, the discussion can and should continue.

Kizee
06-18-2008, 01:04 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>To the OP.....Quit asking to make the game easier.</p></blockquote>Pffft. This is a "discussion" forum. Where people discuss. Your opinion may differ from the OP's but nevertheless, the discussion can and should continue. </blockquote><p>It's just another post from the instant gradification crowd. </p><p>God forbid you have a goal and work toward it instead of ask for game mechanics to be changed. I am sure that SoE has thought about the guild level mechanics since they changed how this worked 2 times already.</p>

Morgane
06-18-2008, 01:08 PM
<cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>It's just another post from the instant gradification crowd. </p><p>God forbid you have a goal and work toward it instead of ask for game mechanics to be changed. I am sure that SoE has thought about the guild level mechanics since they changed how this worked 2 times already.</p></blockquote><p>LOL Well pardon me, I stand corrected. HEAR YE HEAR YE!!! All discussion on this topic must cease NOW. Kizee does not agree. </p><p>As you were! </p>

Morgane
06-18-2008, 01:16 PM
<cite>Qandor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>With the system we have now, an individual can work his butt off in a smaller guild and never be able to access many of the nicer personal rewards. Meanwhile, someone can get an invite to a high level guild, having done relatively little work at all, and the world is his oyster. That is the problem with the current system and that is why many people in smaller guilds feel like second class citizens.</p></blockquote><p>This is kinda what I think, you just put it more eloquently than I did. I think changing it at this point would bring more grief than good but it still makes smaller guilds work that much harder. Kudos to those of you who posted from smaller guilds and have made it to the higher levels... I'm in a guild that's made it to the 50's so it's certainly not impossible or anything. I think that as the game stands, it's definitely tilted towards higher end guilds and smaller guilds have much more of a struggle. This is, perhaps, just the way it is and so be it. If you want the rewards and the raids, join one of the high-end guilds. If you want casual then join a smaller guild and just have fun. </p><p>I guess the game is what you make of it... I wanted to progress my higher level toon so I joined a bigger guild so I could learn to raid. I still have a few alts in my smaller guild and I have fun there, too. I don't know if and when we'll ever see level 80 but we're having fun trying and that's really the point. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>Edited for typos - doh</p>

Asif
06-18-2008, 01:27 PM
<p>I for one think it is fine the way it is ,and we are not in a raiding guild we have just chosen to grow and make our guild bigger.</p><p>It is a long hard grind but with the new patch about getting more guild points for names in all the instances and adventure writs and tradeskill writs it should be easier now.</p><p>We are lvl 77 and it is hard work but increase the size of your guild if you really want to see a differance!!!!</p><p>I dont feel small guilds should get any extra help if you want to stay small ITS YOUR CHOICE !!!!!</p>

Kizee
06-18-2008, 01:32 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>It's just another post from the instant gradification crowd. </p><p>God forbid you have a goal and work toward it instead of ask for game mechanics to be changed. I am sure that SoE has thought about the guild level mechanics since they changed how this worked 2 times already.</p></blockquote><p>LOL Well pardon me, I stand corrected. HEAR YE HEAR YE!!! All discussion on this topic must cease NOW. Kizee does not agree. </p><p>As you were! </p></blockquote><img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

Zarador
06-18-2008, 01:44 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Qandor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>With the system we have now, an individual can work his butt off in a smaller guild and never be able to access many of the nicer personal rewards. Meanwhile, someone can get an invite to a high level guild, having done relatively little work at all, and the world is his oyster. That is the problem with the current system and that is why many people in smaller guilds feel like second class citizens.</p></blockquote><p>This is kinda what I think, you just put it more eloquently than I did. I think changing it at this point would bring more grief than good but it still makes smaller guilds work that much harder. Kudos to those of you who posted from smaller guilds and have made it to the higher levels... I'm in a guild that's made it to the 50's so it's certainly not impossible or anything. I think that as the game stands, it's definitely tilted towards higher end guilds and smaller guilds have much more of a struggle. This is, perhaps, just the way it is and so be it. If you want the rewards and the raids, join one of the high-end guilds. If you want casual then join a smaller guild and just have fun. </p><p>I guess the game is what you make of it... I wanted to progress my higher level toon so I joined a bigger guild so I could learn to raid. I still have a few alts in my smaller guild and I have fun there, too. I don't know if and when we'll ever see level 80 but we're having fun trying and that's really the point. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>Edited for typos - doh</p></blockquote>I agree, but not completely...We have a small family Guild and have made it to a impressive, yet humble level 40!  These games are all about deciding what it is that you wish to achieve and how it is that you wish to play, then accepting what the choices will determine in regards to rewards.  Even though we would surely benefit with a change that would increase our ability to level the guild without changing our play style, I'm not for that at all. There is NO problem with the current system.  Changing it would take away from the larger Guilds who earned the right to claim the rewards for their efforts.  If I choose to solo as an adventurer, then I know I can't take on an Epic Mob near my level and reap those rewards.  I made a determination that I wish to play on my own and that choice determined how much content I can effectively take on.  In the case of our small family guild, we made a choice.  We enjoy doing what we like to do, when we like to do it, with no obligations to run raids and keep outsiders interested in our Guild.  After years of being in raiding guilds, we decided that was the type of play style we wanted. The fact that you always have options to make a larger guild, run raids, go after epic mobs and press the guild onward means that their is an 'Equal Opportunity" being provided.  There is NO penalty being drawn against smaller guilds. The argument about how one can join a level 80 Guild and if they have the status gain all the benefits with no effort also does not hold.  They can also join a level 30 Guild and gain the level 30 benefits just as easily.  The effort was put in by the members of the Guild well before they joined giving that Guild the right to share in their benefits for whomever they deem fit. If lower level guilds feel like second class citizens, they have only to recruit and learn to run a larger guild to reap those rewards.  From my experience, it's a very difficult job that requires a great deal of human resource management and the ability to handle large amounts of drama at the cost of doing what you want when you want.

Morgane
06-18-2008, 02:02 PM
<cite>Kizee wrote:   </cite><blockquote><cite></cite><img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />       </blockquote>Careful... my mama always told me my eyes would get stuck if I did that too much. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />I respect your opinon, kizee... just don't like the attitude towards those of us who love the game and love the endless discussions about every aspect of it. That's why I come to these forums... to read, to learn, to ask, to discuss. If you don't wanna discuss the subject, feel it's redundant or you can't disagree in a way that adds something to the thread, then move along. Simple as that. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

Morgane
06-18-2008, 02:04 PM
<cite>Zarador wrote:   </cite><blockquote><cite></cite>These games are all about deciding what it is that you wish to achieve and how it is that you wish to play, then accepting what the choices will determine in regards to rewards.  </blockquote>I completely agree with that statement. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Tamalain
06-19-2008, 06:23 AM
<p>Carpenter TS Writs..  Level 80.   15520 points.   1552 guild status.  5 writs 1% guild exp.  </p><p>Full suited to do Tradeskills.  17 writs per hour running flat out.  Brain run out my ears after about 5 hours.</p><p>Guild at 66.  We have about 4 people that actually push the status up.  Level every 2 to 3 weeks when I am functional and not burned out from them.</p><p>Currently #2 in points on Crushbone, and hovering around 60 world wide.</p><p>Any guild can level if you are willing to dig in and make the effort.</p><p>Tamalain Arrowmark  80 Ranger/Carpenter</p><p>Exiled Knights </p>

Qandor
06-19-2008, 09:50 AM
<cite>Zarador wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Qandor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>With the system we have now, an individual can work his butt off in a smaller guild and never be able to access many of the nicer personal rewards. Meanwhile, someone can get an invite to a high level guild, having done relatively little work at all, and the world is his oyster. That is the problem with the current system and that is why many people in smaller guilds feel like second class citizens.</p></blockquote><p>This is kinda what I think, you just put it more eloquently than I did. I think changing it at this point would bring more grief than good but it still makes smaller guilds work that much harder. Kudos to those of you who posted from smaller guilds and have made it to the higher levels... I'm in a guild that's made it to the 50's so it's certainly not impossible or anything. I think that as the game stands, it's definitely tilted towards higher end guilds and smaller guilds have much more of a struggle. This is, perhaps, just the way it is and so be it. If you want the rewards and the raids, join one of the high-end guilds. If you want casual then join a smaller guild and just have fun. </p><p>I guess the game is what you make of it... I wanted to progress my higher level toon so I joined a bigger guild so I could learn to raid. I still have a few alts in my smaller guild and I have fun there, too. I don't know if and when we'll ever see level 80 but we're having fun trying and that's really the point. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>Edited for typos - doh</p></blockquote>I agree, but not completely...We have a small family Guild and have made it to a impressive, yet humble level 40!  These games are all about deciding what it is that you wish to achieve and how it is that you wish to play, then accepting what the choices will determine in regards to rewards.  Even though we would surely benefit with a change that would increase our ability to level the guild without changing our play style, I'm not for that at all. There is NO problem with the current system.  Changing it would take away from the larger Guilds who earned the right to claim the rewards for their efforts.  If I choose to solo as an adventurer, then I know I can't take on an Epic Mob near my level and reap those rewards.  I made a determination that I wish to play on my own and that choice determined how much content I can effectively take on.  In the case of our small family guild, we made a choice.  We enjoy doing what we like to do, when we like to do it, with no obligations to run raids and keep outsiders interested in our Guild.  After years of being in raiding guilds, we decided that was the type of play style we wanted. The fact that you always have options to make a larger guild, run raids, go after epic mobs and press the guild onward means that their is an 'Equal Opportunity" being provided.  There is NO penalty being drawn against smaller guilds. The argument about how one can join a level 80 Guild and if they have the status gain all the benefits with no effort also does not hold.  They can also join a level 30 Guild and gain the level 30 benefits just as easily.  The effort was put in by the members of the Guild well before they joined giving that Guild the right to share in their benefits for whomever they deem fit. If lower level guilds feel like second class citizens, they have only to recruit and learn to run a larger guild to reap those rewards.  From my experience, it's a very difficult job that requires a great deal of human resource management and the ability to handle large amounts of drama at the cost of doing what you want when you want. </blockquote><p>Well you missed thw whole point. What is so incompehensible about PERSONAL rewards being tied to PERSONAL effort? Everyone seems to be quick the play to the lazy card or the I want it now card when those cards are being tossed at the wrong party. I'm talking about someone who has wracked 10 million personal status but has zilch to do with it if he happens to not be in a high level guild. Meanwhile someone with a mere fraction of that can pretty much buy whatever he wants just because of where he sits. You have people feasting off the efforts of players who have gone before them, in many cases the efforts of players who no longer even play the game, and meanwhile many folks actually putting in the effort now have little to show for it. If that is not an upside down system I really do not know what is. Of course, those enjoying great rewards for minimal effort would be loathe to see the system corrected and I am certain it never will be changed. </p><p>The guild you happen to be sitting in should not factor into your qualification for a personal reward. Many of the games biggest slackers are in the large guilds simply because they can get all the rewards without having to do much of anything. You see people with 100k guild status contributed riding around on top tier mounts while someone with 10 times that is choking around on a level 30 nag. Personal effort in EQ2 is not rewarded when it comes to personal rewards. Where you happen to be sitting is rewarded. The system encourages large guilds and discourages the small guild. Yes, there should be rewards for high level guilds but they should not be personal rewards. Personal rewards should require personal effort and all players who put in equal amounts of effort should be able to obtain them. At release, a high level guild, then level 30, provided you with a discount for level 30 mounts but it did not preclude anyone, large guild or not, from obtaining them. Why they scrapped that type of system in favor of the abortion we have now remains a mystery. </p><p>Large guilds are important for the game, however there are many who prefer playing in a more tightly knit, smaller guild, sometimes, in fact, even a family guild. Through the years they have lost many of these types of players simply because, despite the effort they applied, they could never achieve some of the nicer toys in the game. People have to understand that we are not talking about raid rewards here as compared to say group or solo rewards. We are talking about rewards earned through identical means, HQ's, writs, etc. Joe Blow, family guilded, should have the opportunity to achieve rewards being earned by others doing identical tasks. Joes writs or HQ's or status item drops are not anymore easily obtained than someone in an uber guild. Equal pay for equal work comes to mind. A novel concept I know.</p>

Karlen
06-19-2008, 10:35 AM
<span class="postbody"> >>>What is so incompehensible about PERSONAL rewards being tied to PERSONAL effort? Everyone seems to be quick the play to the lazy card or the I want it now card when those cards are being tossed at the wrong party. I'm talking about someone who has wracked 10 million personal status but has zilch to do with it if he happens to not be in a high level guild.<<<Someone with 10 million personal status has essentially made a conscious decision not to be a member of a high level guild, since the 1 million guild status that would have generated would have levelled a level 1 guild up to at least 25 or 30.  If nothing else, that character could have created his own solo guild and levelled it by himself.  There are a few things in the game (primarily mounts and houses) that are rewards for being in a high level guild.   In most cases, there are comparable non-guild options available.   If you choose not to be in a high level guild, then you do not get to partake in high level guild rewards.   Similarly, if I choose not to raid, I don't get to partake in much of the raid loot.  However, there is lots of loot available to me, through quests/groups/broker.Similarly, if I choose not to join a group, I don't get the loot from killing mobs deep in dungeons.  But I can still get quest loot or purchase it from the broker.</span><span class="postbody">Remember also that many of the rewards only require you to be a member of the guild to actually purchase the item -- you can pay rent on a previously-purchased house without being a guild member.   There are lots of guilds -- it should be possible to find one that will let you join long enough to buy a house.</span>

Kendell
06-19-2008, 04:35 PM
<p>Know I started this guild of mine and have had the dedication to the guild to continue to level it even when it was just my ftaher and I in the guild. I have been training people in the game about stats for you charecter and all that stuff. I am not saying I want a free ride anywere in this game and have never asked for a free ride. We have dedicated people in the guild but it bounces from 100 members to 40 members Know the 40 members of this guild make up the leaders and officers alts. As Far as the new names droping status points it is the boss in the zone that is it we have already try it. The some of the raid zones you get status off more then one name. know we are dedicated to leveling the guild but the curve is crazy and it jumps way to much when you hit 51. Come on give me a break to jump from 100,000 status points at level 50 to 51 to having to have 4,000,000 status points to get from 51 to 52 you say that is far. Know people saying we have 10 members and we are level 63 how many people did you have before that helped you hit 63 or do you only do city writs and tradeskill writs and HQs. I mean I dont want it to be easy by no means but not so hard for 9 levels than go back to a easier leveling curve. People I have talked to have told me that after you hit 60 it gets easyer the the 51 to 60 levels. were is that right. Also is there a small guild that has hit level 80 that has never did a guild raid. I want to hear from you please. please name the guild and server so I can enquire to see if your claims are true. I can say the Uber Clan on butcher block server has never did a guild raid. A few of use help out frinds that in raiding guilds once in awhile. But it is maybe 2 of us in the raid. Please respond back so I can see what everyone thinks this is a discussion not a voting thing should SOE or shouldnt SOE do it they will make there own minds up. But It is a place so we can get opions and they can see what we all think and make there mind up from that. </p><p>Thanks</p><p>Kendell</p><p>Leader of Uber Clan </p><p>Butcherblock Server</p>

Finora
06-19-2008, 04:52 PM
<p>I'm tired of the misconception that only raid guilds can level their guild quickly.</p><p>Being a raid guild has absolutely nothing to do with it. It's more of a dedication to get the prize than the size/type of guild. Tradeskill writs give good status. Adventure writs give good status. There are even adventure writs that have you kill the same creature for all 4 of them so you can get them all done in one fell swoop. There are group zones that give status and I hear they are going to be adding status for more of the bosses in those. 10% of every bit of status you earn goes to your guild's level. Get your guild moving and you'll see your level go up. If it's just one or 2 people interested in leveling the guild, it'll go slowly as people incidentally get status from killing stuff.</p><p>There are the city raids if people want to do them, only takes 12 folks and you can mentor to the lowest person so everyone could participate.</p><p>Now if people want to argue about the smoothness of guild leveling, argue all you want. But don't throw about the "I'm in a small casual guild so we can't level up our guild like a raid guild can" silliness. </p><p>As for the leveling out the guild level progression, I thought they did that a while back? Or maybe they were talking about it and didn't get around to doing it.</p><p>It doesn't take a HUGE number of people in your guild. It just takes people who are willing to put in the effort.</p>

Kellin
06-19-2008, 05:09 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>My guild has less than 10 active members but we have still managed to get to guild level 63.</blockquote><p>Same.  Except I think we're 62.  We have maybe 5 people on a night.  We don't really grind writs or guild status all that much, except when we're close to dinging the guild.</p><p>I'd love the guild to get to 75 so my illu can get her pink-saddled sparklepony.  A necro in the guild wants 65 so he can have an appropriately necro-ish mount.  So we do writs.</p><p>Yes, it's slow.  Yes, it's gonna take a while.  But you know what?  None of that guild status stuff is necessary for a good playing experience.  And I don't want them to reduce the amount of work it takes to level guilds.</p><p>Guild levels can be compared to those impossible secret minigames or levels in console games.  Nothing about it is necessary to playing the game, but if you wanna go through the effort, you can get the gold chocobo.</p>

woolf2k
06-19-2008, 05:23 PM
wait a minute! I want my instant level 80 button before they work on my instant level 80 guild... <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Karlen
06-19-2008, 06:09 PM
<span class="postbody"> >>>None of that guild status stuff is necessary for a good playing experience.  And I don't want them to reduce the amount of work it takes to level guilds.<<<The OP is complaining about the levelling speed beyond 50-51.    My guild just reached 51 recently so I can't really comment on how hard level 51 is, but it does appear to me that most things that I would want are available to me now (houses, horses, etc).  There are a few slightly quicker mounts available that I can't buy, but they don't appear to be so fast to be game breaking compared to what I can get at level 51.  I haven't run across any houses a level 51 guildmember cannot buy.  At level 50, the "other" city merchant opened up with all kinds of things I can't imagine wanting to buy.That said, if the curve needs to be smoothed out, I don't have any objections to them doing so.</span>

Bette
06-19-2008, 06:21 PM
<p><span style="font-size: small;font-family: Times New Roman;">I would be ok with the SMOOTHING the 1 - 80 curve.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;font-family: Times New Roman;">however...</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;font-family: Times New Roman;">I would NOT like for them to REDUCE the number of total status points needed to get from  1 -80.</span></p>

Kendell
06-19-2008, 06:55 PM
<p>If you look at my origanl post it is nt saying to make it easyer to level from 1 to 80 with your guild but make it smother in progression for the levels. Instead of making level 51 to 60 so hard make the curve smoother so that it gradualy gets harder each 10 levels you advance. but keep the total status you need from 1 to 80 the same amount but make it were each 10 level progression gets a little hard and from 70 to 80 the hardest until the level cap goes up then make from 80 to 90 harder. Thats all I would like to see them do. And also it is easyer for a high end raiding guild to level quicker then a smaller guild because of the number of members in the guild. But I never meant that raid guilds had it easyer then non raiding guilds. On the other hand EQ2 is still directed towards raiding guild rather then nonraiding guilds. They have improved with update 46 but still have a ways to go to make then game for both raiding and non raiding guilds. This discussion wasnt to offend  or bash raiding guilds I have a lot of ingame friends in raiding guilds and they are great people and help my guild when they can. It was just intended to discuss game opinions about the curve and makeing some more spots for non raiding guilds to kill names for status.</p><p>Thanks</p><p>Kendell</p><p>Leader of Uber Clan</p><p>Butcherblock server</p>

Zarador
06-20-2008, 12:26 AM
<cite>Qandor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zarador wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>I agree, but not completely...We have a small family Guild and have made it to a impressive, yet humble level 40!  These games are all about deciding what it is that you wish to achieve and how it is that you wish to play, then accepting what the choices will determine in regards to rewards.  Even though we would surely benefit with a change that would increase our ability to level the guild without changing our play style, I'm not for that at all. There is NO problem with the current system.  Changing it would take away from the larger Guilds who earned the right to claim the rewards for their efforts.  If I choose to solo as an adventurer, then I know I can't take on an Epic Mob near my level and reap those rewards.  I made a determination that I wish to play on my own and that choice determined how much content I can effectively take on.  In the case of our small family guild, we made a choice.  We enjoy doing what we like to do, when we like to do it, with no obligations to run raids and keep outsiders interested in our Guild.  After years of being in raiding guilds, we decided that was the type of play style we wanted. The fact that you always have options to make a larger guild, run raids, go after epic mobs and press the guild onward means that their is an 'Equal Opportunity" being provided.  There is NO penalty being drawn against smaller guilds. The argument about how one can join a level 80 Guild and if they have the status gain all the benefits with no effort also does not hold.  They can also join a level 30 Guild and gain the level 30 benefits just as easily.  The effort was put in by the members of the Guild well before they joined giving that Guild the right to share in their benefits for whomever they deem fit. If lower level guilds feel like second class citizens, they have only to recruit and learn to run a larger guild to reap those rewards.  From my experience, it's a very difficult job that requires a great deal of human resource management and the ability to handle large amounts of drama at the cost of doing what you want when you want. </blockquote><p>Well you missed thw whole point. What is so incompehensible about PERSONAL rewards being tied to PERSONAL effort? Everyone seems to be quick the play to the lazy card or the I want it now card when those cards are being tossed at the wrong party. I'm talking about someone who has wracked 10 million personal status but has zilch to do with it if he happens to not be in a high level guild. Meanwhile someone with a mere fraction of that can pretty much buy whatever he wants just because of where he sits. You have people feasting off the efforts of players who have gone before them, in many cases the efforts of players who no longer even play the game, and meanwhile many folks actually putting in the effort now have little to show for it. If that is not an upside down system I really do not know what is. Of course, those enjoying great rewards for minimal effort would be loathe to see the system corrected and I am certain it never will be changed. </p><p>The guild you happen to be sitting in should not factor into your qualification for a personal reward. Many of the games biggest slackers are in the large guilds simply because they can get all the rewards without having to do much of anything. You see people with 100k guild status contributed riding around on top tier mounts while someone with 10 times that is choking around on a level 30 nag. Personal effort in EQ2 is not rewarded when it comes to personal rewards. Where you happen to be sitting is rewarded. The system encourages large guilds and discourages the small guild. Yes, there should be rewards for high level guilds but they should not be personal rewards. Personal rewards should require personal effort and all players who put in equal amounts of effort should be able to obtain them. At release, a high level guild, then level 30, provided you with a discount for level 30 mounts but it did not preclude anyone, large guild or not, from obtaining them. Why they scrapped that type of system in favor of the abortion we have now remains a mystery. </p><p>Large guilds are important for the game, however there are many who prefer playing in a more tightly knit, smaller guild, sometimes, in fact, even a family guild. Through the years they have lost many of these types of players simply because, despite the effort they applied, they could never achieve some of the nicer toys in the game. People have to understand that we are not talking about raid rewards here as compared to say group or solo rewards. We are talking about rewards earned through identical means, HQ's, writs, etc. Joe Blow, family guilded, should have the opportunity to achieve rewards being earned by others doing identical tasks. Joes writs or HQ's or status item drops are not anymore easily obtained than someone in an uber guild. Equal pay for equal work comes to mind. A novel concept I know.</p></blockquote>What point is it exactly that I missed?  <b>Guild Rewards=Guild Based Rewards</b>.  If a Guild is able to achieve level 80, then anyone they invite to share in those perks is entitled to those perks as the <b>Guild who EARNED</b> level 80 determines.  It has nothing to do with the personal effort put forth by an individual and everything to do with what the <b>GUILD</b> has accomplished, be it 5 members or 500 members. I'm not discouraged in the slightest.  It takes a huge amount of motivation and effort to raise a large Guild to level 80.  You have to keep people going, provide activities, deal with drama, run raids in many cases.  All things I don't wish to participate in.  So I don't get the level 80 Guild mount or the tells from SuzyQ complaining that SallyX got the item she deserved because she had two less DKP points but got the item because it was a major upgrade and I wanted the item because it should be mine!You do get the <b>EXACT SAME REWARDS</b> <i>for the</i> <b>EXACT SAME PARTISIPATION</b>.  That's what makes it all fair.  If your willing to do what their willing to do, you get the same rewards. They scarpped the old system for a simple reason, why should 5 people be able to, even though they work darn hard at it, what 500 people can do? By the way, if Joe manages to get 5 of his people to do 5 HQ's...it's still only 5 HQ's accomplished.  Not made to be worth 25 HQ's because Joe wants a 5 member guild of his friends. Is it somehow more fair that Bob gets 25 of his people to do 25 HQ's but gets credit for 5 HQ's because he has the <cough> easy task of running a large Guild? Again, YOU determine how YOU want to PLAY, YOU make that Choice and the GAME dictates the REWARDS for that choice.  Killing 3 ^ up Heroic Mobs does not = killing 1 ^^^ Heroic Mob, killing 10 ^^^ Heroic Mobs does not = killing an Epic Mob.

Kendricke
06-20-2008, 10:08 AM
<cite>Qandor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Well you missed thw whole point. What is so incompehensible about PERSONAL rewards being tied to PERSONAL effort? </p></blockquote><p>Personal rewards are tied to personal effort.  </p><p>Tell you what, I lead the Legion of the White Rose.  We're a level 80 guild on Guk.  Why don't you create a brand new level 1 character (choose any class) and I'll invite you to join us.  Once you're in, why don't you tell me how many status rewards you can buy.  I'll make sure your rank is sufficient to allow for it.  Know what will happen?</p><p>Nothing.  You can't buy status rewards without personal effort. You mentioned the player with "a fraction of" 10,000,000 personal status.  That "fraction" is still 500,000 status or so, right (5%)?  It's not like 500,000 status just falls in your lap.  That level 1 on Guk you have will take quite some time (and personal effort) to get even to that 500,000 status "fraction".</p>

Zarador
06-20-2008, 12:31 PM
<Begs forgiveness>  Analogy follows:It's like building up frequent flier miles on your credit card.  You can build up a ton of miles, but if you decide you don't like to fly then the miles are wasted.  You can argue all you like that you have 1,000,000 flight miles and the other guy has 10,000 miles and gets to fly to wherever, but if you don't choose to use those miles where they were designated to be used, it's your loss.The credit card company allowed you to gain say 1,000 miles for buying a refrigerator.  You bought the refrigerator knowing the miles were a perk for what you were purchasing. You built up all these miles, but don't wish to use them in a manner in which they were designed.  Not much anyone can do to help you there.

Kendell
06-22-2008, 11:33 AM
Just a line to thank everyone that posted on this thread.

Qandor
06-23-2008, 12:10 PM
<cite>Kendricke wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Qandor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Well you missed thw whole point. What is so incompehensible about PERSONAL rewards being tied to PERSONAL effort? </p></blockquote><p>Personal rewards are tied to personal effort.  </p><p>Tell you what, I lead the Legion of the White Rose.  We're a level 80 guild on Guk.  Why don't you create a brand new level 1 character (choose any class) and I'll invite you to join us.  Once you're in, why don't you tell me how many status rewards you can buy.  I'll make sure your rank is sufficient to allow for it.  Know what will happen?</p><p>Nothing.  You can't buy status rewards without personal effort. You mentioned the player with "a fraction of" 10,000,000 personal status.  That "fraction" is still 500,000 status or so, right (5%)?  It's not like 500,000 status just falls in your lap.  That level 1 on Guk you have will take quite some time (and personal effort) to get even to that 500,000 status "fraction".</p></blockquote><p>Really? I just did 521,000 guild status, that's 5,210,000 personal status in 3 weeks. Check for yourself. Character name Jaku - Permafrost server. Joined guild on June 1, 2008. This is my 4th guild all the previous 3 guilds imploded. </p><p>So you tell me what will happen with your most "generous" offer since you seem to think you know it all as usual. By the way, that 521,000 guild status would represent roughly 2% of the entire Legion of the White Roses total guild status that you accumulated over nearly 4 years with 289 current members. Know what personal items I can buy with that status and all the other acuumulated status in the other 3 guilds after 4 years of play? I think you are smart enough to know. </p><p>You are known far and wide as the great defender of the status quo. You have been doing so for nearly 4 years now. Whatever system is in place you defend. If SOE changes that system tomorrow, you will defend that. </p><p>So bottom line is still, personal effort is meaningless in and of itself. Where you sit is all that matters. If you like the small guild environment, if you like playing with friends and family. EQ2 is not the place where you can achieve much of anything toy wise no matter how much effort you expend. That has hurt EQ2 from day one and that will continue to hurt this game as long as this current system for personal rewards remains in place. The system almost guarantees that small guilds will fail and implode given enough time as people grow weary of little reward for effort and either move on to larger guilds or quit the game entirely.</p>

Asif
06-23-2008, 12:52 PM
<cite>Qandor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kendricke wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Qandor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Well you missed thw whole point. What is so incompehensible about PERSONAL rewards being tied to PERSONAL effort? </p></blockquote><p>Personal rewards are tied to personal effort.  </p><p>Tell you what, I lead the Legion of the White Rose.  We're a level 80 guild on Guk.  Why don't you create a brand new level 1 character (choose any class) and I'll invite you to join us.  Once you're in, why don't you tell me how many status rewards you can buy.  I'll make sure your rank is sufficient to allow for it.  Know what will happen?</p><p>Nothing.  You can't buy status rewards without personal effort. You mentioned the player with "a fraction of" 10,000,000 personal status.  That "fraction" is still 500,000 status or so, right (5%)?  It's not like 500,000 status just falls in your lap.  That level 1 on Guk you have will take quite some time (and personal effort) to get even to that 500,000 status "fraction".</p></blockquote><p>Really? I just did 521,000 guild status, that's 5,210,000 personal status in 3 weeks. Check for yourself. Character name Jaku - Permafrost server. Joined guild on June 1, 2008. This is my 4th guild all the previous 3 guilds imploded. </p><p>So you tell me what will happen with your most "generous" offer since you seem to think you know it all as usual. By the way, that 521,000 guild status would represent roughly 2% of the entire Legion of the White Roses total guild status that you accumulated over nearly 4 years with 289 current members. Know what personal items I can buy with that status and all the other acuumulated status in the other 3 guilds after 4 years of play? I think you are smart enough to know. </p><p>You are known far and wide as the great defender of the status quo. You have been doing so for nearly 4 years now. Whatever system is in place you defend. If SOE changes that system tomorrow, you will defend that. </p><p>So bottom line is still, personal effort is meaningless in and of itself. Where you sit is all that matters. If you like the small guild environment, if you like playing with friends and family. EQ2 is not the place where you can achieve much of anything toy wise no matter how much effort you expend. That has hurt EQ2 from day one and that will continue to hurt this game as long as this current system for personal rewards remains in place. The system almost guarantees that small guilds will fail and implode given enough time as people grow weary of little reward for effort and either move on to larger guilds or quit the game entirely.</p></blockquote><p>Nice numbers i will give you that !!</p><p>But what do you want an easy stick for small guilds while us who are NOT in RAIDING guilds and have to grind out the big numbers to lvl our guild believe man its a grind to get to 80 without raiding.( we are not even there yet should hit 78 today )</p><p>I just dont get why you want to make it easier to be in a small guild  and lvl it ?</p><p>Everyone in any guild has the chance to get to 80 just takes longer for small guilds and thats the way it is.</p><p>You should see the Writs that get done in our guild on a daily bases some days its just mind numbing with over 135 accounts everyone chips in its a group effort.</p><p>Like i have said before you want what the big guilds have  let more people join your guild and you will see it stay small and you will not its as simply as that.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Qandor
06-23-2008, 02:32 PM
<cite>Asif wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Qandor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kendricke wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Qandor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Well you missed thw whole point. What is so incompehensible about PERSONAL rewards being tied to PERSONAL effort? </p></blockquote><p>Personal rewards are tied to personal effort.  </p><p>Tell you what, I lead the Legion of the White Rose.  We're a level 80 guild on Guk.  Why don't you create a brand new level 1 character (choose any class) and I'll invite you to join us.  Once you're in, why don't you tell me how many status rewards you can buy.  I'll make sure your rank is sufficient to allow for it.  Know what will happen?</p><p>Nothing.  You can't buy status rewards without personal effort. You mentioned the player with "a fraction of" 10,000,000 personal status.  That "fraction" is still 500,000 status or so, right (5%)?  It's not like 500,000 status just falls in your lap.  That level 1 on Guk you have will take quite some time (and personal effort) to get even to that 500,000 status "fraction".</p></blockquote><p>Really? I just did 521,000 guild status, that's 5,210,000 personal status in 3 weeks. Check for yourself. Character name Jaku - Permafrost server. Joined guild on June 1, 2008. This is my 4th guild all the previous 3 guilds imploded. </p><p>So you tell me what will happen with your most "generous" offer since you seem to think you know it all as usual. By the way, that 521,000 guild status would represent roughly 2% of the entire Legion of the White Roses total guild status that you accumulated over nearly 4 years with 289 current members. Know what personal items I can buy with that status and all the other acuumulated status in the other 3 guilds after 4 years of play? I think you are smart enough to know. </p><p>You are known far and wide as the great defender of the status quo. You have been doing so for nearly 4 years now. Whatever system is in place you defend. If SOE changes that system tomorrow, you will defend that. </p><p>So bottom line is still, personal effort is meaningless in and of itself. Where you sit is all that matters. If you like the small guild environment, if you like playing with friends and family. EQ2 is not the place where you can achieve much of anything toy wise no matter how much effort you expend. That has hurt EQ2 from day one and that will continue to hurt this game as long as this current system for personal rewards remains in place. The system almost guarantees that small guilds will fail and implode given enough time as people grow weary of little reward for effort and either move on to larger guilds or quit the game entirely.</p></blockquote><p>Nice numbers i will give you that !!</p><p>But what do you want an easy stick for small guilds while us who are NOT in RAIDING guilds and have to grind out the big numbers to lvl our guild believe man its a grind to get to 80 without raiding.( we are not even there yet should hit 78 today )</p><p>I just dont get why you want to make it easier to be in a small guild  and lvl it ?</p><p>Everyone in any guild has the chance to get to 80 just takes longer for small guilds and thats the way it is.</p><p>You should see the Writs that get done in our guild on a daily bases some days its just mind numbing with over 135 accounts everyone chips in its a group effort.</p><p>Like i have said before you want what the big guilds have  let more people join your guild and you will see it stay small and you will not its as simply as that.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote><p>You are missing the point of my posts. I am not asking for it to be made easier to level a guild. In fact, in an early post I stated that it is virtually impossible to change the guild leveling system at this late date. What I am asking, is for them to to stop using personal rewards as the reward for guild levels only. SOE never developed guild rewards. The first real guild reward was the guild cloak and soon there will be guild halls. Those are guild rewards and appropriately tied to guild levels. They tied all the personal rewards to guild levels because they never bothered to develop any type of guild reward prior to the guild cloaks. What this did is tell everyone, in smaller guilds, who had no reasonable expectation to attain high guild levels, that they could work as hard as they like but they will never see any substantive rewards for their efforts. People such as myself, do not particualrly want to be in a large guild so growing the guild memebership just to achieve some of the nicer personal toys is not a real option.  </p><p>I see nothing wrong with guilds even being given discounts for toys based on their level but totally removing personal rewards from individuals who expend the effort just because of where they happen to sit is wrong. All it is does is encourage people along one path, large guilds. Large guilds are an integral part of the game but they need not be the only social structure of any worth. </p><p>A brand new player, can come into the game even at this late date and achieve rewards with minimal effort if he happens to land, due to a connection through a guild member, in a large high level guild. Meanwhile someone who has slaved away in small guilds for years is prohibited from reaching those same rewards by any means. He cannot buy them, he cannot even get them for triple the effort. This is not the way personal rewards should work. </p><p>I'm not even certain what the top mounts cost status wise. I believe it is something like 750k status. That amount of status is nothing to achieve currently. Having accrued that amount and purchased that mount, all you have really proven is that you are sitting in the right spot, nothing more. Meanwhile 7.5 million status for someone sitting in the wrong spot is totally worthless. I just cannot believe that people cannot see the inequity in this. </p><p>Kendricke's ludicrous offer proves nothing. It avoids the whole issue entirely and was an attempt to end the discussion. This is not about me personally. I would most likely not even buy those top mounts if I could. However, the fact that I cannot, that I do not even have that option despite the effort expended, is galling as all get out and I'm certain I'm not alone in feeling this way. As I stated, I have had 3 promissing small guilds implode on me. It becomes crystal clear then. The day after it happens, regardless of what you have done, you can buy virtually nothing. That is not a well designed system. </p>

ZachSpastic
06-23-2008, 08:50 PM
<p>The rewards they chose to restrict to guild membership don't make any sense. Housing? Mounts? How are those appropriate to tie to guild level? If they are appropriate, then the character should automatically lose those rewards immediately upon being deguilded.</p>

Valdaglerion
06-24-2008, 10:46 AM
<p>Here is a mechanic I would like to see brought back to the game that would level out the playing field a bit as well as add in a way for guild to merge in a way -></p><p>GUILD DE-LEVELING</p><p>There, I said it. I believe the status contribtions should stay with the person that earned them so before you start disagreeing, please read this entirely.</p><p> (1) The player earns the status points, either by completing writs (you get them from the NPC and finish them. The NPC knows your name and level, not your guild. Its your face they know so in a logical prgoression, the player is the one earning the status and is known for their deeds.</p><p>(2) Guilds are a collective of people and begin to obtain status merely through collective status. They actively recruit the best of the best as a way of drawing in more people by that person's celebrity or status. They also work hard to keep those top end people because IF they leave other people tend to follow and thus the status of the guilld should be affected.</p><p>(3) Here in the real world SoE tracks their TOP status board by GUILD STATUS NOT PERSONAL STATUS. Thats right, if you leave your guild, your GSP gets reset to zero and you drop off the leaderboards.</p><p>(4) Guilds have no penalty for losing good people but the players can be penalized. If guild management changes, a guild changes their game play style, etc and players decide they should join a different guild, the player is instantly punished by losing all the GSP they have earned and having to start over. Many guilds provide access to ranks based on your GSP. This is akin to hiring a CEO of a company and tell him he is going to start in the mail room again with your company to prove himself all over. Essentially GSP is the only way to determine the contributions one has made to a guild so is still used as a major metric.</p><p>(5) Smaller guilds could decide to grow based on playstyle with other guilds and thus truly combine their accomplishments with like minded smaller guilds. As one guild disbands and joins the other each player would be contributing their GSP to their new guild and the new guild would have its GSP and subsequent guild level recalculated accordingly. If things didnt work out the players havent really lost anything and can reform.</p><p>(6) As raid burnout occurs in some guilds, the players whom are going to continue to raid under a different guild wont lose their GSP either and can use that as clout to join another guild as can those raiders who are going to change their play style and perhaps join a smaller guild with a more heroic play style.</p><p>(7) Guild leaders become more accountable for understanding their playerbase and keeping them happy.</p><p>The only reason this was removed from the game was guild leaders cried like little girls because they couldnt keep their players and they were getting de-leveled as players left. Under this system though, the better the guild the faster you can level by attracting and keeping good players. Attract a top player on the leaderboards and it could be a HUGE boon. <span style="color: #ff0000;">This is a fair system to both the players and the guilds, period and truly should be considered. </span></p><p><span style="color: #000000;">I would love to hear any legitimate reasons why this system should not be put in place. The reasons of its not fair, we dont want to lose our guild levels, etc. can only be deemed as whining by those who know they will lose their guild levels because they know they have unhappy players.</span></p>

MrWolfie
06-24-2008, 11:36 AM
<cite>Asif wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>But what do you want an easy stick for small guilds while us who are NOT in RAIDING guilds and have to grind out the big numbers to lvl our guild believe man its a grind to get to 80 without raiding.( we are not even there yet should hit 78 today )I just dont get why you want to make it easier to be in a small guild  and lvl it ?<span style="color: #33cc00;">Except it's the same number, no matter what size of the guild you're in. Raiding has nothing to do with it.If you need 1,000,000 status points to reach level 80, so do all the other guilds.A guild with 135 people will accrue 1,000,000 status points far more easily than a guild with two people.</span><span style="color: #33cc00;">So under the current system, it is the guild with the most people that has an "easy stick".</span>Everyone in any guild has the chance to get to 80 just takes longer for small guilds and thats the way it is.</p><p>You should see the Writs that get done in our guild on a daily bases some days its just mind numbing with over 135 accounts everyone chips in its a group effort.<span style="color: #33cc00;">Mind numbing, eh?And how does that translate to a small guild with far, far fewer people?Do they <i>really</i> have the chance to get to 80, or is it improbable bordering on unachievable. No matter if individually they put in the same effort as your top writters - they still have no chance, not even if you double, triple or even quadruple the effort they put in.</span></p><p>Like i have said before you want what the big guilds have  let more people join your guild and you will see it stay small and you will not its as simply as that.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY:)" /><span style="color: #33cc00;">And that is wrong.Unfair.Restrictive.Anti-casual. Anti-small guilds, anti-family.It's even un-<i>American</i>, as it denies the right of an individual's effort to be rewarded in the same manner as a collective effort.The OP isn't asking to do LESS work than you, he's asking for the same "easy stick" you already have - to do the same amount of work and be given the same reward. </span></p></blockquote> 

Karlen
06-24-2008, 11:55 AM
The game does not restrict you from recruiting members to your guild in order to allow for more people working to level the guild.  All guilds start out with the same number of members (6) and have the same opportunities for growing their membership and retaining that membership.