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View Full Version : Fix the EQ2 Economy, Offer Mythical Merchants


Yimway
06-05-2008, 05:10 PM
I just wanted to float this very unpopular idea.It is widely known you can purchase your vp mythical update for 400p.  It is also widely known you can purchase your earlier updates for an additional 300p.The merits of which have been argued ad nausiem.I propose we accept and embrace this, and SoE add a merchant to buy these from.  It would be MUCH MUCH better for the community for this plat to be leaving the marketplace vs what is likely happening to it when guilds sell the updates.I've personally decided not to purchase an update even though I have 1.5kplat, but thats a personal choice.  I do strongly believe the greater marketplace would benefit from the coin in these transactions leaving the game instead.$0.02

Jesdyr
06-05-2008, 05:28 PM
Same type of situation .. and I feel the same way ..Of course the fact that we don't want to spend 700p to get the item might be why we have so much plat <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Noaani
06-05-2008, 05:33 PM
<p>Can we also put in a fabled merchant, since most top guilds will also sell looting rights to any raid dropped item in the game to anyone that has access to that zone...</p><p>We could put every single raid dropped item in game on them, so non raiders can just walk up to them and purchase whatever they want.</p><p>That was sarcasm, btw.</p><p>Edit: and from what I have seen, confirmed is the most expensive guild selling mythical updates atm... kinda the downside of being on a server with no one else to buyt them off.</p>

Oh
06-05-2008, 05:38 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>I just wanted to float this very unpopular idea.It is widely known you can purchase your vp mythical update for 400p.  It is also widely known you can purchase your earlier updates for an additional 300p.The merits of which have been argued ad nausiem.I propose we accept and embrace this, and SoE add a merchant to buy these from.  It would be MUCH MUCH better for the community for this plat to be leaving the marketplace vs what is likely happening to it when guilds sell the updates.I've personally decided not to purchase an update even though I have 1.5kplat, but thats a personal choice.  I do strongly believe the greater marketplace would benefit from the coin in these transactions leaving the game instead.$0.02</blockquote><p>There is nothing wrong with the economy, what you have is free market in action. There are guilds that are doing this so they are reaping the rewards along with the associated risks and timesinks to get the folks to the appropriate zones to loot said items.</p><p>as to plat leaving the economy, well frankly when a guild does this, 9times out of 10 it's being used to help fund repair costs. =/ cause after you got so much plat it's just pointless stupid to try and get more. </p>

wullailhuit
06-05-2008, 05:47 PM
Not , if the coin is being sold to RMT companies for RL cash...

Yimway
06-05-2008, 05:47 PM
<cite>Ohiv wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><p>as to plat leaving the economy, well frankly when a guild does this, 9times out of 10 it's being used to help fund repair costs. =/ cause after you got so much plat it's just pointless stupid to try and get more. </p></blockquote>ROFLRepair costs?  Raiding RoK and not getitng enough corpse plat for repair costs, your doing something wrong...Guild needs to earn 2500 plat in one night for repair costs?The arguement against guilds selling these has been RMT associated with it.  Removing plat from the game has the effect of lowering inflation.  Take 10% of the plat out of the marketplace and inflated broker prices will drop.

interstellarmatter
06-05-2008, 05:51 PM
<p>I was always against having mythical/epic class weapons.  In fact, the EQ2 devs believe that same way and defended for the longest time why EQ2 didn't have them.  </p><p>Anyways, it's SOE's mess now.  I don't believe the mythical vendor is a good idea.  If they do it, it should be on top a  TON of status points.  I mean..tens if not hundred of million of SP.  That would keep people from just buying a bunch of a plat to get them.</p>

Garath
06-05-2008, 05:54 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>I just wanted to float this very unpopular idea.It is widely known you can purchase your vp mythical update for 400p.  It is also widely known you can purchase your earlier updates for an additional 300p.The merits of which have been argued ad nausiem.I propose we accept and embrace this, and SoE add a merchant to buy these from.  It would be MUCH MUCH better for the community for this plat to be leaving the marketplace vs what is likely happening to it when guilds sell the updates.I've personally decided not to purchase an update even though I have 1.5kplat, but thats a personal choice.  I do strongly believe the greater marketplace would benefit from the coin in these transactions leaving the game instead.$0.02</blockquote>Then by the same logic every single weapon, armor, and even consumables that you find on the broker should be available for purchase off a vendor too. Or, how about all those craftable items? All that money I spend on potions, poisons and adornments could just go right back to Sony instead of those crafters. Why have players trade services or goods at all? Just have everything purchasable off a vendor and be done with the economy all together.Sound silly? Yeah. It is.

Yimway
06-05-2008, 06:10 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote></blockquote>Then by the same logic every single weapon, armor, and even consumables that you find on the broker should be available for purchase off a vendor too. Or, how about all those craftable items? All that money I spend on potions, poisons and adornments could just go right back to Sony instead of those crafters. Why have players trade services or goods at all? Just have everything purchasable off a vendor and be done with the economy all together.Sound silly? Yeah. It is.</blockquote>Extrapolating anything to the most infinite degree, is silly, yes.There is nothing broken about the crafted side of the economy, those goods are sold at just a fraction over cost to obtain.  However, things like masters and other highly desired items are very overpriced.  I'm sure you'll throw the supply / demand arguement, but you can watch the market on these.  They aren't turning over (selling) at the prices listed (very slow movement).This is cause 90% of the server wealth is on roughly 200ish players.  With the mythical transactions going on, that 90% is shfting to an even shorter list of players.Being on the upper end of the wealth scale, I know these players getting the plat have no need base use for it.  Ie, they already have resources to buy anything in the game they want, leaving only 2 uses for it. 1 Ranking your [Removed for Content]pixels, or 2 RMT. 

Sunlei
06-05-2008, 06:13 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>I just wanted to float this very unpopular idea.It is widely known you can purchase your vp mythical update for 400p.  It is also widely known you can purchase your earlier updates for an additional 300p.The merits of which have been argued ad nausiem.I propose we accept and embrace this, and SoE add a merchant to buy these from.  It would be MUCH MUCH better for the community for this plat to be leaving the marketplace vs what is likely happening to it when guilds sell the updates.I've personally decided not to purchase an update even though I have 1.5kplat, but thats a personal choice.  I do strongly believe the greater marketplace would benefit from the coin in these transactions leaving the game instead.$0.02</blockquote><p>     wait, wait.. you are saying most likey the plat is sold for realife money. I agree! most likely some of the ingame sales and broker sales are the front for amassing large quanties of plats. </p><p>Not to directly accuse any of the  "we can sell anything we want" guilds but after noticing many years of platinum amassing at the top end in EQ and EQ2. I'm sure soe is well aware of these people and guilds. fishie looking that is to me.</p><p>  Then you suggest..lets have merchants to sell items that cost many plats to "help the community"....how will having merchants like that help anyone but the plat sellers make more money?  more people will buy plats to buy the junk off the merchants!  sales must be slow!</p>

interstellarmatter
06-05-2008, 06:18 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote></blockquote>Then by the same logic every single weapon, armor, and even consumables that you find on the broker should be available for purchase off a vendor too. Or, how about all those craftable items? All that money I spend on potions, poisons and adornments could just go right back to Sony instead of those crafters. Why have players trade services or goods at all? Just have everything purchasable off a vendor and be done with the economy all together.Sound silly? Yeah. It is.</blockquote>Extrapolating anything to the most infinite degree, is silly, yes.There is nothing broken about the crafted side of the economy, those goods are sold at just a fraction over cost to obtain.  However, things like masters and other highly desired items are very overpriced.  I'm sure you'll throw the supply / demand arguement, but you can watch the market on these.  They aren't turning over (selling) at the prices listed (very slow movement).This is cause 90% of the server wealth is on roughly 200ish players.  With the mythical transactions going on, that 90% is shfting to an even shorter list of players.Being on the upper end of the wealth scale, I know these players getting the plat have no need base use for it.  Ie, they already have resources to buy anything in the game they want, leaving only 2 uses for it. 1 Ranking your [I cannot control my vocabulary]pixels, or 2 RMT.  </blockquote><p>But you're not really breaking the cycle here.  If they were on the vendor, they'd still have to cost a ton of plat otherwise they'd be a joke.  In order to get the plat, the same people who buy RMT to get plat to pay to guilds would still buy plat from RMT companies.  These companies would still buy plat from the players who farm money..abeit..it would not longer be from selling mythical updates..but they'd just find another way to farm plat.</p><p>You're really just changing the dynamics of the cycle.</p>

Yimway
06-05-2008, 06:26 PM
<cite>Sunlei wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><p>  Then you suggest..lets have merchants to sell items that cost many plats to "help the community"....how will having merchants like that help anyone but the plat sellers make more money?  more people will buy plats to buy the junk off the merchants!  sales must be slow!</p></blockquote>I think you're ignoring the supply side of RMT.  RMT companies buy plat to then sell it at a markup.  Removing the plat from the game, affects the ability of RMT companies from getting supply to sell to people looking to cheat.However, these transactions happening between players leaves the plat in the game to be sold back to the RMT company to then be sold to the next person looking to buy an update.Removing the coin from the marketplace drives up the availability of coin to the RMT economy thus driving the RMT cost of the update out of reach of those looking to cheat for it.  So, taking the coin out of circulation will deflate the ingame economy and greatly inflate the cost of purchasing coin via RMT.  This is the principle under which I proposed the idea.Leaving it as is, I'm quite sure a fair amount of the plat changing hands to purchase the update is comming from RMT, and a fair amount of it is being sold back to RMT merchants from those providing the updates.  Certainly not everyone on either side of this transaction are guilty of breaking the rules and using RMT, but I think you're only fooling yourself if you believe there isn't a significant portion that is.

Sunlei
06-05-2008, 06:36 PM
<p>  You know for many years I thought plat sellers should just go turn into the leaches they are. Plat buyers, those silly cheaters..spending money on pixals when its sooo easy to earn ingame money. I voted no when soe had that servey a billion years pre-exchange servers. </p><p>   In this day and age a huge percent of players don't really play the game and just  buy plats. And there seems to be a very small percent amassing those plats for sale unfettered. Its time for station exchange or whatever they call it to be added to all servers. </p><p>I too have a TON of plats but I like to play the game, as a game and earn stuff myself!</p><p>I agree we plat hoarders do need something to do with all this plats we gain so easy. But it is not the answer to hand the few 'allowed' plat sellers more income!</p><p>  Now if station exchange starts being allowed by eula on all servers than fine, set-up the merchants. I'll sell my banked plats to those silly ones too!</p>

Nahdian
06-05-2008, 06:38 PM
<p><span style="font-size: x-small;">  I would hate to see venders sell anything that was crafted by the players. This game is losing players left and right as it is. And in no way should they sell mythical , fabled or anything along those lines.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: x-small;">  But there is an awful lot of plat out there and I think some of it needs to be taken off the servers. I have been saving plat since the game started. I have three accounts and all of the chars are dressed to the max, their houses are well furnished , there is absolutely nothing for me to spend my plat on.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: x-small;">I would love to see venders sell special potions, poisons, spells that only last a limited time. Have armor , weapons, furniture and such actually wear out . And you need to take them to a special vender to be fixed, or have to go buy new stuff. We need rent increases, we should have to buy food and feed for house pets and mounts. Maybe even pay the fella at the stable to reshoe our mounts ever so often. </span></p><p><span style="font-size: x-small;">   Of course none of this will ever happen, but it would be a great way to remove plat from the servers and help make the economy more stable. But what the heck , I will just continue to hourde plat and then someday throw it all up for sale ,for real money. LOL! I made quite a bundle selling on the old exchange . But don't like the new kids on the block so now I just throw it in the bank. </span></p>

Razlath
06-05-2008, 06:47 PM
<p>Correct me if I am off base here, I don't claim to be an economy expert.</p><p>Wouldn't this just change the scale of what was happening?  If 700pp buys your epic today and you use a method to slowly remove the coin from the game making each 1pp worth effectively more wouldn't they just sell for 70pp later?  The plat sellers would recognize a lesser number of pp in the game and sell less pp for the same amount.  Since it would buy the same amount of stuff in the game it is worth the same amount.</p><p>Hmm.. let me try an example.  I have never been to a plat buying website so these are not real numbers (I don't think).</p><p>Lets say RMTers sell 1000pp for $50.</p><p>This 10000pp buys your mythical for 700pp and 3 masters at 100pp each.</p><p>This is implemented and 700pp of that coin vaporizes because the person bought it from the vendor instead of a guild.</p><p>As this continues there will be less pp in the world.  That makes the pp in the world worth more.  So now you end up with:</p><p>RMTer sells 500pp for $50.</p><p>This 500pp buys your mythical (now from a raid guild instead of a vendor) for 350pp and 3 masters at 50pp each.</p><p>I guess there would be a point where earning pp legitimately would balance things out, but I have not idea how to express that.  It just seems like if the goal is to elminate RMT it isn't going to work.  It just scales back the actual value amounts.  Am I off base from an economic perspective?  It seems like we see the same thing with a new game launch.  When a game first launches pp is really expensive per coin.  But eventually the price per coin goes down because it takes more coins to buy the same stuff in game.</p>

interstellarmatter
06-05-2008, 06:48 PM
<cite>Sunlei wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>     In this day and age a huge percent of players don't really play the game and just  buy plats.</p></blockquote>Where did you get this statistic?

Yimway
06-05-2008, 06:51 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Correct me if I am off base here, I don't claim to be an economy expert.</p><p>Wouldn't this just change the scale of what was happening?  If 700pp buys your epic today and you use a method to slowly remove the coin from the game making each 1pp worth effectively more wouldn't they just sell for 70pp later?  The plat sellers would recognize a lesser number of pp in the game and sell less pp for the same amount.  Since it would buy the same amount of stuff in the game it is worth the same amount.</p><p>Hmm.. let me try an example.  I have never been to a plat buying website so these are not real numbers (I don't think).</p><p>Lets say RMTers sell 1000pp for $50.</p><p>This 10000pp buys your mythical for 700pp and 3 masters at 100pp each.</p><p>This is implemented and 700pp of that coin vaporizes because the person bought it from the vendor instead of a guild.</p><p>As this continues there will be less pp in the world.  That makes the pp in the world worth more.  So now you end up with:</p><p>RMTer sells 500pp for $50.</p><p>This 500pp buys your mythical (now from a raid guild instead of a vendor) for 350pp and 3 masters at 50pp each.</p><p>I guess there would be a point where earning pp legitimately would balance things out, but I have not idea how to express that.  It just seems like if the goal is to elminate RMT it isn't going to work.  It just scales back the actual value amounts.  Am I off base from an economic perspective?  It seems like we see the same thing with a new game launch.  When a game first launches pp is really expensive per coin.  But eventually the price per coin goes down because it takes more coins to buy the same stuff in game.</p></blockquote>Yes, to a point.  However, I believe it will still normalize the economy a fair amount, and would never actually make it to the level you describe.I still contend removing the plat from the marketplace helps the server community as a whole vs the current transactions.And my goal wasn't to eliminate RMT, that can't be done.  My goal was to help level the economy a bit by removing coin from circulation.  Making the coin earned from raidng / questing / crafting have a greater relative purchasing power.Its no real secret that dupes and other exploits have caused the marketplace to be as inflated as it is.  Adding something to remove large chuncks of coin from circulation would help fix the issue.

Sunlei
06-05-2008, 07:17 PM
<cite>interstellarmatter wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sunlei wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>     In this day and age a huge percent of players don't really play the game and just  buy plats.</p></blockquote>Where did you get this statistic?</blockquote>         a little bird told me.  

Qandor
06-05-2008, 07:23 PM
<p>Do a lot of you lose sleep at night about RMT? It seems like you do, maybe even more than SOE themselves. RMT is an SOE problem or Blizzard problem or whoever happens to be the the current development house for the game you are playing. If they cannot solve this problem, assuming it is a real problem, players are not going to solve it themselves. </p><p>I'm not condoning the practice but I'm not losing sleep over it either. The biggest contribution you can make as a player to solving the RMT issue is to not buy plat for real life dollars. That is it - that is all you can do. </p><p>Now as to the mythicals themselves. It would be idiotic for SOE to turn around and put into play a mechanism to circumvent their own content. Why spend money to develop that content in the first place then? Personally I could care less about the mythical. I certainly would go for one if I were capable of getting through the content to earn it. That is not possible atm and I'm certainly not going to pay some [Removed for Content] to get it for me. Big deal. It will not be too far down the road that people will be bagging those mythicals for something better anyway. Then we will have the moan threads about why such and such weapon is better than the mythical and why did I work so hard to get the mythical, blah, blah. </p>

StormCinder
06-05-2008, 07:33 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Correct me if I am off base here, I don't claim to be an economy expert.</p><p>Wouldn't this just change the scale of what was happening?  If 700pp buys your epic today and you use a method to slowly remove the coin from the game making each 1pp worth effectively more wouldn't they just sell for 70pp later?  The plat sellers would recognize a lesser number of pp in the game and sell less pp for the same amount.  Since it would buy the same amount of stuff in the game it is worth the same amount.</p><p>Hmm.. let me try an example.  I have never been to a plat buying website so these are not real numbers (I don't think).</p><p>Lets say RMTers sell 1000pp for $50.</p><p>This 10000pp buys your mythical for 700pp and 3 masters at 100pp each.</p><p>This is implemented and 700pp of that coin vaporizes because the person bought it from the vendor instead of a guild.</p><p>As this continues there will be less pp in the world.  That makes the pp in the world worth more.  So now you end up with:</p><p>RMTer sells 500pp for $50.</p><p>This 500pp buys your mythical (now from a raid guild instead of a vendor) for 350pp and 3 masters at 50pp each.</p><p>I guess there would be a point where earning pp legitimately would balance things out, but I have not idea how to express that.  It just seems like if the goal is to elminate RMT it isn't going to work.  It just scales back the actual value amounts.  Am I off base from an economic perspective?  It seems like we see the same thing with a new game launch.  When a game first launches pp is really expensive per coin.  But eventually the price per coin goes down because it takes more coins to buy the same stuff in game.</p></blockquote>Yes, to a point.  However, I believe it will still normalize the economy a fair amount, and would never actually make it to the level you describe.I still contend removing the plat from the marketplace helps the server community as a whole vs the current transactions.And my goal wasn't to eliminate RMT, that can't be done.  My goal was to help level the economy a bit by removing coin from circulation.  Making the coin earned from raidng / questing / crafting have a greater relative purchasing power.Its no real secret that dupes and other exploits have caused the marketplace to be as inflated as it is.  Adding something to remove large chuncks of coin from circulation would help fix the issue.</blockquote><p>So....Dartak presents a well-thought out, reasonable, logical arguement.   With numbers and examples about why this is an ineffectual idea, and you counter with "I believe..." , "I still contend..." and that oldie, but goodie "It's no real secret..." ??</p><p>Knee-jerk reactions to situations where you feel you're being wronged in some way are no way to solve a problem.  </p><p>Is there any sort of proof of these guilds participating in RMT...any proof beyone "Oooh...you <b><i>know</i></b> it's happening....what else would they be doing?"</p><p>I say, put up or shutup.  Present some kind of concrete proof that this is taking place...get a guild banned for it.  But taking these wild accusations and using them as a basis for altering the game is ludicrous and childish.</p><p>SC</p>