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View Full Version : either i cant find a good one, or this class makes sks look uber


therodge
06-05-2008, 03:37 PM
im hoping their simply arnt many well played ones, but summoners in genral latly have been sucking BAD i do not claim to know ANYTHING about the class but arnt they supposed to be some sort of dps? i havent found a summoner since rok that could parse over 1200 zw, so ah [Removed for Content]?

Banditman
06-05-2008, 04:07 PM
Heroic or Raid zones ?Heroic zones are notoriously hard on Summoners.  Their DPS is only apparent over long durations.  They just don't have any burst DPS at all.  When a fight lasts 20 seconds, a Summoner is just starting to get all his DoT's out and running.

LygerT
06-06-2008, 03:28 PM
<p>they need to /ragequit</p><p>err, nm, both of ours can top the parse from time to time..</p>

Davngr1
06-06-2008, 03:40 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>they need to /ragequit</p><p>err, nm, both of ours can top the parse <span style="color: #0000ff;">from time to time..</span></p></blockquote><p>either have your summoners come on these forums and teach the rest of us how to play the class or be fair and admit that your summoners are doing about as much dmg as your chanters (if they are good).</p><p><cite>therodge wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>im hoping their simply arnt many well played ones, but summoners in genral latly have been sucking BAD i do not claim to know ANYTHING about the class but arnt they supposed to be some sort of dps? i havent found a summoner since rok that could parse over 1200 zw, so ah [I cannot control my vocabulary]?</blockquote><p>there's no way summoners are as bad off as SK are.   the REAL problem is that there are many summoners in raiding guilds that enjoyed raiding the class for 3 years or so, that are now next to useless in raid.  they dont bring good enuf dps or utility to justify a raid spot .    </p>

RanmaBoyType
06-06-2008, 05:21 PM
<p>hrm, our good raiding summoners parse raidwide results in the 3k range with peaks close to 6k, and we are no where near the quaility of hardcore raiding guilds.  I agree with other stating that summoners need time to do dps, short wuick figthts hurt them, long fights and they shine. (thats how it was for my retired conji in t7, granted i have not raided with him in t8, just going by what i see in our raids)</p>

Windowlicker
06-06-2008, 06:51 PM
It's not just summoners, it's sorcerers too.

azekah
06-10-2008, 12:39 PM
I ran my necro through FG with a full group of other dps classes and was number 1 on the parse?I find that a lot (not all) dps players these days are plain lazy. I can easily top parses with my melee warden, not because I should, but because I'm often more involved in the gameplay.Lol, I picked up my old 44 coercer the other day, only had like 10 AA and ran through DFC. I ended up almost equal on parse for total damage at the end of the zone with a 43 ranger. (did they really make coercer dps that much better or did the ranger suck?)The answer to your question is you can't find a good one.

Razlath
06-10-2008, 02:10 PM
<cite>azekah wrote:</cite><blockquote>(did they really make coercer dps that much better or did the ranger suck?)</blockquote>Coercer burst DPS is insane.  One of my normal groupmates is a coercer and it is crazy the kind of burst damage he can do.  What I consider more amazing is that he is good enough to do it without pulling aggro.  ;}

Norrsken
06-10-2008, 02:25 PM
<cite>azekah wrote:</cite><blockquote>I ran my necro through FG with a full group of other dps classes and was number 1 on the parse?</blockquote>T3 is not the same as T8.

SisterTheresa
06-10-2008, 02:42 PM
<p>Didn't they do some changes on the chanter classes?</p><p>As for the summoner ... Necro and Conj right?  I thought they were more of pet classes that are balanced than say, a Wizard.  Of course scouts are out damaging the Wizards now.</p><p>Sorry to hear about your comment, OP.  I haven't raided in a long time, and so many changes have occured.  I have a sarnak necro, but I don't use her for raiding, just grouping with my family.</p>

Razlath
06-10-2008, 03:00 PM
<p>I am by no means saying the following is the whole problem as many of those noting a problem doubtless already know about this, but for those of you who do not, here you go.</p><p>If you care about the parse you need to name your pet with your name.  This will make you appear as one line on the parse.  If the summoner / necro you are grouping with seems a little low, look for some cutsie name further down the parse that is probably their pet.  This simple thing can drastically alter the perception of how much damage you do within a party.  Many people do not have the desire to go hunting for your pet, and adding two numbers together to figure out where you fell.  Instead they see summoner low on parse, and go, oh, that guy sucks.  If you are judging a summoner be sure you add them and their pet together if they have not named it the same thing as themselves.</p><p>Example (made up names and numbers in case it wasn't clear):</p><ul><li><div>Wilbur the Wizard does 500dps</div></li><li><div>Carline the Coercer does 600dps</div></li><li><div>Sam the ShadowKnight does 450dps</div></li><li><div>Natalie the Necromancer does 300dps</div></li><li><div>Doesnteatenough does 250dps (this is Natalie's skelly)</div></li></ul><p>Parse looks like</p><ul><li><div>Carline 600</div></li><li><div>Wilbur 500</div></li><li><div>Sam 450</div></li><li><div>Natalie 300</div></li><li><div>Doesnteatenough 250</div></li></ul><p>Makes natalie look like poo, way down at the bottom of the parse.  If Natalie would name her pet Natalie it would look like this:</p><ul><li><div>Carline 600</div></li><li><div>Natalie 550</div></li><li><div>Wilbur 500</div></li><li><div>Sam 450</div></li></ul><p>Now Natalie looks correct in the parse.  Obviously this only matters if you care about the parse, but is something I have seen quite regularly.  Summoners look odd on the parse unless they name their pet the same thing as themselves.</p>

Tiberuis
06-10-2008, 08:50 PM
<p>To The Devs :</p><p>1) Please approach chalkboard slowly.</p><p>2) Pick up chalk from tray.</p><p>3) Proceed to write the full title of the post 100 times, neatly, over and over again.</p><p>4) Now, pull up a chair.</p><p>5) Sit down.</p><p>6) Try to find a hint in the post title somewhere about plate tank class balance.</p><p>7) Wait for lightbulb to come on over your head. </p><p><img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Make notes about hint.</p><p>9) Give notes to class design boss.</p><p>Thank-you for your time.</p><p><img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Illine
06-11-2008, 05:28 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>azekah wrote:</cite><blockquote>(did they really make coercer dps that much better or did the ranger suck?)</blockquote>Coercer burst DPS is insane.  One of my normal groupmates is a coercer and it is crazy the kind of burst damage he can do.  What I consider more amazing is that he is good enough to do it without pulling aggro.  ;}</blockquote><p>totally agree, when you cast your 3 reactiv spells, if each procs, you can do an amazing dps in a really short time. but those spells are not always up. but if the fight is short enough, yes, you can do an amazing dps.</p><p>on long fights, you dps decreases because those spells have a long recast time and your other spells are not as powerfull and as much mages we have a lot of DoTs.</p><p>anyway the more dots you have the longer it will take to start having a good dps. melee classes can more easily have a busrt dps ... especially tanks, to hold aggro.</p><p>this has been a lot of times, in short fight, it's normal for a melee and especially a tank to do more dps than a mage, but in longer fights, like in raids, a fighter will not outdps a dps mage. Conjurors are really powerfull on raids.</p><p>for me the mages with the biggest problems are warlocks because there isn't mush linked encounters, even less in raids. But when there are, warlocks can out dps almost anybody (if they don't die of course :p).</p><p>anyway, mages need more time than melee to really shine in dps ... that's why parses are good for raid fights but not always great for group fights. I sometimes can cast only 2 spells and the heroic +++ mob is dead <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />, while melee still auto attack even if they don't land CAs ...</p>

ke'la
06-11-2008, 06:11 AM
The whole the caster needs time thing for a good parce is very true, heck I can(on my Swash) launch about half my CAs, in the time it takes a caster to cast 1 or 2 spells. Add to that the fact that Half the Summoner damage comes from their pets(assuming they have their DPS pets out), and most of that comes in the form of DoTs(or Dumbfire pets which are DoTs the can be killed) it's kinda hard to top the parce in quick fights, especially considering you have to send the pet in on every mob(last I checked). AN added issue with Conjs(not sure is Necros have the same issue) is that like Warlocks a good part of their DPS also comes in the form of AoEs so like Warlocks without multi-mob encounters their DPS suffers as well.

Davngr1
06-11-2008, 10:07 AM
all these post fail to state the real reason summoner where left behind in dmg.   that reason being that 30%-60% of the DMG in T8 comes from gear that only benefits 50% at best of the summoner spells.    up to lvl 70 or so summoners are fine it's 70+ when other classes get great AA to spend the extra 20 points and crap loads of +crit + spell dmg, that summoner fall behind.

liveja
06-11-2008, 10:22 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite> <blockquote><p>If the summoner / necro you are grouping with seems a little low, look for some cutsie name further down the parse that is probably their pet. </p></blockquote><p>My 56 Conjy is regularly out-DPS'd by his own Ad3 fire pet, which is usually something like second or third on the parse.</p>

Razlath
06-11-2008, 11:46 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite> <blockquote><p>If the summoner / necro you are grouping with seems a little low, look for some cutsie name further down the parse that is probably their pet. </p></blockquote><p>My 56 Conjy is regularly out-DPS'd by his own Ad3 fire pet, which is usually something like second or third on the parse.</p></blockquote><p>Which is great if someone is looking for Imagolem on the parse.  If they are looking for you, well you look bad.  It is just a suggestion, and by no means required.  But for those who care about the parse it is worth noting.  It doesn't matter if you parse higher than your pet or your pet parses higher than you.  That wasn't actually involved in the point at all.</p><p>The point was if you name your pet anything but your name you split your damage on the parse.  If you want your name up there, name them the same thing.  It can only make you look better (and coincidentally much more accurate).</p>

Mr. Dawki
06-11-2008, 11:51 AM
<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote>To be honest, Coercers were never even scheduled for gu45.  I got ahead of schedule and had some time so I proposed some changes and then implemented them. For gu46, I don't see this happening although we do have some smaller impact changes going in.  For beyond that, its largely like I said I don't currently have a plans to do a coercer like update for any class.  Can that change though? Yes its possible but for now there are no plans for that.  </blockquote>Are you dissapointed? I know I am.

azekah
06-11-2008, 12:12 PM
<cite>Earar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>totally agree, when you cast your 3 reactiv spells, if each procs, you can do an amazing dps in a really short time. but those spells are not always up. but if the fight is short enough, yes, you can do an amazing dps.</p><p>on long fights, you dps decreases because those spells have a long recast time and your other spells are not as powerfull and as much mages we have a lot of DoTs.</p></blockquote>Actually I did way more damage on some of the long fights. The named right before fyst I think I did around 25,000 damage, the next highest was the ranger at about 16k. Forgot the check for fyst.

Illine
06-11-2008, 01:02 PM
<cite>azekah wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Earar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>totally agree, when you cast your 3 reactiv spells, if each procs, you can do an amazing dps in a really short time. but those spells are not always up. but if the fight is short enough, yes, you can do an amazing dps.</p><p>on long fights, you dps decreases because those spells have a long recast time and your other spells are not as powerfull and as much mages we have a lot of DoTs.</p></blockquote>Actually I did way more damage on some of the long fights. The named right before fyst I think I did around 25,000 damage, the next highest was the ranger at about 16k. Forgot the check for fyst.</blockquote><p>because it depends of a lot of things, like ... was the fight long enough to cast more than once your reactivs, how was he debufff blablabla ...</p><p>then quality of spells blablabla ... you can't compare with only one person, because as you said if he's slacking and you don't, sure you'll be better than him. try to challenge the people of your group, tell them that you'll parse them to compare them with you, maybe they'll stop slacking for a fight, or take good players you know to do this kind of test.</p><p>still, normally, rangers should out dps coercers. but good players usually out parse slackers :p</p>

liveja
06-11-2008, 01:26 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>The point was if you name your pet anything but your name you split your damage on the parse.  If you want your name up there, name them the same thing.  It can only make you look better (and coincidentally much more accurate).</p></blockquote><p>Yes, I know. What I was commenting on was your reference to the "cute name" being "further down the parse", which I inferred to mean the pet doing less DPS than the player. I just wanted to comment that in my case, it's almost always been the other way around.</p><p>OTOH, I'm so bored with my Conjy I never play it any more, so I guess it's a moot point. The new Illy I started yesterday, I re-named his pet to that of the character, but it will be a long time before I see any effect of that <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>