A feature i dislike in ROK

[Odys]

I reached recently the level 70 ... and got finally access to the 70-80  channel. I was wondering what would be my first instance, since i got quests in Karmor i was willing to go there. Quite quicly people on the channel explained me that i should rather solo till around 75 since none will take me in any instance at 70. They also told me that people don't do karmor often because it repop too fast (on storm with the low population it means never).I call this a failure. A MMO is meant for grouping even if i love to solo too.I could for sure do pre 70 instances, but who go there you get items much weaker than those given with 5mn quests in ROK. When Wow released Burning crusade (60-70)  you had one or two level 61-62 instances that were hard if you were wearing tradable item, mediium if you had done the level 60 instances and trivial if you had some raiding stuff.

[Killerbee3000]

<p>I think soe had good intentions with making the t8 instances targeted at the level 80's, why? your going to be 80 for a long time...</p><p>One can't get exp from those good intentions though, so yes, I agree with you, there should be some heroic content added for level 70 - 75. Also you are spot on with why do t7 stuff, the solo quests are more rewarding. </p><p>Yet another issue with it, you have to do each and every quest line or you will never get to 80 and 140 aa's... its bleh the first time, I'm now on toon number 6 through rok and its getting really boring. The only thing that keeps me in the game at the moment are raids.</p><p>Bring back grouping to grind pls k thx bye.</p>

[Illine]

<p>yeah I agree, some like to group, but in storms it's hard.</p><p>People don't group, if you're 80 you chain instance, or play your alts with whioch you solo or play with guild mates.</p><p> but you can quest with another player though <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Killerbee3000]

<cite>Earar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p> but you can quest with another player though <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote><p>if he is on the same part of the questline as you...</p><p>which is another flaw of rok, quest lines make it harder to team up, if you do so you just end up back tracking to get others up to the step you are at and then after the first nice reward they have excuses like I have to pick up my kid from school, i need to walk the dog otr hes going to sh** on the sofa...</p>

[agememn]

<cite>Killerbee3000 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Earar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p> but you can quest with another player though <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15"></p></blockquote><p>if he is on the same part of the questline as you...</p><p>which is another flaw of rok, quest lines make it harder to team up, if you do so you just end up back tracking to get others up to the step you are at and then after the first nice reward they have excuses like I have to pick up my kid from school, i need to walk the dog otr hes going to sh** on the sofa...</p></blockquote><p>I completely agree with this being on of the bigger problems with RoK.  the linear nature of the quest lines makes it a nightmare to do in a group.  This weekend some guildies and I decided to work on some of the heroic quest lines in Seb.  It seemed like a good idea at the time, and infact we did have fun exploring bits of Seb that we had not been to before (who knew Seb is actually a decent dungeon).  But the prolem we had was the person furthest on in the quest lines got no, yes no, updates on her quest, as a 4hour play period was spent getting everybody else up to the same point.  Now we can go back to Seb next time all of us are on and continue this quest line, but the chances of having exactly the same group are slim, and then if we fill up with other peeps we have to go and run throught the first 5 quests in the series again.  The way the quests work in Rok, it is actually a disadvantage to group up - now for a MMO this would seem to me to be a contradiction.  </p><p>One thought I did have is that it would be helpful if the quest sharing could be tweak,ed so that if you try and share quest number 4 in a series, your group mates that are not eligible for 4 are offered instead the first one they are eligible for (be that 1, 2, or 3).  This would save the huge time sink of having to leave a dungeon and run half way accross another zone to go hail an npc after every quest.  </p><p>Krussh</p><p>80 paladin</p><p>The Lost Order</p><p>Splitpaw</p>

[Kellin]

Yeah, I dislike the linear nature of the questlines in RoK myself.  I like some variety when I switch between alts, and once they reach 70, I'm stuck with the same questline for everyone.My 71 troub has yet to set foot there.  I'm keeping her in KoS and EoF as long as I can.

[Jrral]

<cite>Oustafiak@Storms wrote:</cite><blockquote>Quite quicly people on the channel explained me that i should rather solo till around 75 since none will take me in any instance at 70. </blockquote>In RoK, instances are aimed at the 75-80 levels. Rather than work instances as you level, SOE designed it for people to run the questlines up to 80 and then start in on the instances, progressing through them to get the gear needed to start the tier 1 raid zones. That's a big change from earlier designs, where instances were aimed at full groups of roughly the level range of the zone the instance was located in. I think it's because of the planned release schedule. Based on SOE and dev comments, they're planning on expansions every 12 months with a level-cap increase no more often than every other expansion. That means we'll be at 80 until late fall of 2009 at the earliest (assuming everything goes as planned and no delays crop up, something I wouldn't bet money on). Given that, I can see why SOE decided to gate things a bit to make it harder to blow through all the content progression quickly.

[Sigunn]

<cite>Jrral@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Oustafiak@Storms wrote:</cite><blockquote>Quite quicly people on the channel explained me that i should rather solo till around 75 since none will take me in any instance at 70. </blockquote>In RoK, instances are aimed at the 75-80 levels. Rather than work instances as you level, SOE designed it for people to run the questlines up to 80 and then start in on the instances, progressing through them to get the gear needed to start the tier 1 raid zones. That's a big change from earlier designs, where instances were aimed at full groups of roughly the level range of the zone the instance was located in. I think it's because of the planned release schedule. Based on SOE and dev comments, they're planning on expansions every 12 months with a level-cap increase no more often than every other expansion. That means we'll be at 80 until late fall of 2009 at the earliest (assuming everything goes as planned and no delays crop up, something I wouldn't bet money on). Given that, I can see why SOE decided to gate things a bit to make it harder to blow through all the content progression quickly.</blockquote><p>I can understand the reasoning behing this design - however I dislike it a LOT. It has damaged the community imo, since it discourages grouping. Grouping is what its all about for me. Thats why I play a MMO not solo games. </p><p>When the game is at such a brittle point as now, population-wise, it is a very bad move to make people NOT socialize for weeks and weeks leveling up past that solo-desert. If you are not immersed in the community, it makes it easier to leave.</p><p>(And dont bother telling me it shouldnt take weeks to get from 70 to 75. For a lot of us, it does, due to ...well. RL? Jobs? Limited game time? Or maybe just slacking? This is not the point. )</p>

[Rench]

<cite>Sigunn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Jrral@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Oustafiak@Storms wrote:</cite><blockquote>Quite quicly people on the channel explained me that i should rather solo till around 75 since none will take me in any instance at 70. </blockquote>In RoK, instances are aimed at the 75-80 levels. Rather than work instances as you level, SOE designed it for people to run the questlines up to 80 and then start in on the instances, progressing through them to get the gear needed to start the tier 1 raid zones. That's a big change from earlier designs, where instances were aimed at full groups of roughly the level range of the zone the instance was located in. I think it's because of the planned release schedule. Based on SOE and dev comments, they're planning on expansions every 12 months with a level-cap increase no more often than every other expansion. That means we'll be at 80 until late fall of 2009 at the earliest (assuming everything goes as planned and no delays crop up, something I wouldn't bet money on). Given that, I can see why SOE decided to gate things a bit to make it harder to blow through all the content progression quickly.</blockquote><p>I can understand the reasoning behing this design - however I dislike it a LOT. It has damaged the community imo, since it discourages grouping. Grouping is what its all about for me. Thats why I play a MMO not solo games. </p><p>When the game is at such a brittle point as now, population-wise, it is a very bad move to make people NOT socialize for weeks and weeks leveling up past that solo-desert. If you are not immersed in the community, it makes it easier to leave.</p><p><b>(And dont bother telling me it shouldnt take weeks to get from 70 to 75. For a lot of us, it does, due to ...well. RL? Jobs? Limited game time? Or maybe just slacking? This is not the point. )</b></p></blockquote><p>While I kindof agree w/ the thread... If all the things you mentioned are stopping you from lvling, they are stopping you from grping too. Cuz it really doesn't take that long with all the quests. If you don't have time for some solo quest lines how do you have time to grp? </p><p>I do miss having the nest and acad type zones tho, that could be done w/ a duo or whatever. And maybe even drop some of the lower lvl (for that tier) masters.</p>

[SirDinadan]

<cite>agememnon wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Killerbee3000 wrote:</cite><p>One thought I did have is that it would be helpful if the quest sharing could be tweak,ed so that if you try and share quest number 4 in a series, your group mates that are not eligible for 4 are offered instead the first one they are eligible for (be that 1, 2, or 3).  This would save the huge time sink of having to leave a dungeon and run half way accross another zone to go hail an npc after every quest.  </p></blockquote><p>In one sense, this exists now.  If you were working on quest 4 in a line, you would have quest 1, 2,  and 3 in your Completed list.  So, just share them from that tab.</p><p>It even tells you the name of the previous quest in the line, so that it's easier to find in the quest list for that zone.</p>

[Sassinak]

The "new" instance for level 70-75 is Shard of Fear.  Most people at level 70 will be more than sufficiently challenged by SoF, Nizara and Nek3, and have probably done none of them before (only Unrest).  Unfortunately, these zones only drop Masters for level 70, not 71-74.

[interstellarmatter]

<cite>Oustafiak@Storms wrote:</cite><blockquote>Quite quicly people on the channel explained me that i should rather solo till around 75 since none will take me in any instance at 70. They also told me that people don't do karmor often because it repop too fast (on storm with the low population it means never).</blockquote><p>Only failure is the people on your server not wanting to do Karmor.  </p><p>How much time should they spend developing instances for lvls that last...hmmm...days for some weeks for others.  Though at lvl 80, you'll sit for a long time.  To me, common sense says to develop most of the content for lvl 80 not 70 to 76.  </p><p>They threw a dungeon for 70-75 which isn't as bad if your group is careful.  Sounds like people have problems with CC on your server.</p>

[Jrral]

<cite>Sigunn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>I can understand the reasoning behing this design - however I dislike it a LOT. It has damaged the community imo, since it discourages grouping. Grouping is what its all about for me. Thats why I play a MMO not solo games.</blockquote>I tend to find it encourages grouping. In RoK the mobs hit like freight trains. It's much much easier and faster if you have a duo or trio working the quests. Even the quests with consumable items go faster, yes you have to make 3 passes for a trio but you can do those 3 passes faster than 1 pass solo. RoK does discourage full groups running instances/dungeons, but the optimum way to run it seems to me to be in a small group (2-4 people).

[DragonMaster2385]

Solo quests: Love linear structure.  It makes it feel like you are progressing a storyline and directs your exploration.Heroic quests: Hate linear structure for the exact same reason that someone pointed out; getting 6 people on the same part of the quest line can be a pita.Hopefully, SOE will take that into consideration for the next expansion, but you never know.  I don't think that they repop too fast in KC if your average group level is 72+.  If everyone is at level 70, it will be very hard to get somewhere.  Also, the lack of nameds and quests makes this zone undesirable. 

[Yimway]

<cite>Oustafiak@Storms wrote:</cite><blockquote>I reached recently the level 70 ... and got finally access to the 70-80  channel. I was wondering what would be my first instance, since i got quests in Karmor i was willing to go there. Quite quicly people on the channel explained me that i should rather solo till around 75 since none will take me in any instance at 70. They also told me that people don't do karmor often because it repop too fast (on storm with the low population it means never).I call this a failure. A MMO is meant for grouping even if i love to solo too.I could for sure do pre 70 instances, but who go there you get items much weaker than those given with 5mn quests in ROK. When Wow released Burning crusade (60-70)  you had one or two level 61-62 instances that were hard if you were wearing tradable item, mediium if you had done the level 60 instances and trivial if you had some raiding stuff. </blockquote>Welcome to 6 months ago.  There were literaly thousands of posts on this topic, that somewhere in the middle of the producer responsible for RoK resigned.You solo to max level, then you begin grouping.  It sucks, its a fundamental change in the game, and it was enough to send many long term players off to other games.That being said, there is a decent group progression quest out there, but it begins in chardok, making it not really viable for 70-75.  Why a similar quest series was not added to KC or some other 70-75 heroic content, I have no idea.<a href="http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Leave_No_Di%27Zok_Behind" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Leave_No_Di%27Zok_Behind</a>Why there weren't more lines like this in RoK like there had been in every other expansion, I have no idea.  Scott Hartsman felt it was time to change the fundamental progression path for RoK and this is what we have.  I for one celebrated his resignation and hope SoE will deliver content on the next expansion that includes content for both playstyles.

[Kage8]

I agree. There was no need to exclude 70-75 grping at all. They tried, CoM and KC but they both suck so bad it hurts.Now what were the nice t7 grp zones?SoS : great mainly cause of claymore. Also tons of nameds and even a nice ring event.PoA: claymore and nice dragons to kill that dropped nice loot.Nest: Nice fast run, ok drops.OoB, CoV, Unrest: Awesome zones with nice loot tables and set gear.There are others of course but i think the main problem with CoM and KC is loot. No reason, that im aware, to go there.and yea maby the last 3 werent 60-65 but there was plenty of 60-65 grping going on thats for sure. CoA is the firt real zone to do, i tanked it at 74. Ya know why it rocks? LOOT!

[LordPazuzu]

<cite>Kage848 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I agree. There was no need to exclude 70-75 grping at all. They tried, CoM and KC but they both suck so bad it hurts.Now what were the nice t7 grp zones?SoS : great mainly cause of claymore. Also tons of nameds and even a nice ring event.PoA: claymore and nice dragons to kill that dropped nice loot.Nest: Nice fast run, ok drops.OoB, CoV, Unrest: Awesome zones with nice loot tables and set gear.There are others of course but i think the main problem with CoM and KC is loot. No reason, that im aware, to go there.and yea maby the last 3 werent 60-65 but there was plenty of 60-65 grping going on thats for sure. CoA is the firt real zone to do, i tanked it at 74. Ya know why it rocks? LOOT!</blockquote>CoM isn't even a low 70's area.  That stuff starts at level 77 on the outer edges.

[Banditman]

Shard of Fear is a fine instance for the lower 70's crowd.  There are a LOT of mobs in the zone to grind if you so choose.  The only real problem is that it doesn't drop L70-75 Master spells.  Otherwise it's a very viable instance and should not be ignored.One lower 70's instance, two mid 70's instances and two 80 instances.  Seems reasonable for a tier to me.  Sure, we'd all like to have more, but the distribution seems fine.

[Obadiah]

Castle Mistmoore also rocks for XP in the 70s and is a lot more manageable for a small group than it was when we were all 70. And if you haven't finished Soulfire or killed all those named mobs within, it is worthwhile. KC wouldn't be half bad if the mobs actually gave XP. At all. And the quest lines gave XP. At all. And the quest lines gave rewards slightly better in coin/items than the solo quests. I did those quests with my main & went back to the zone to help people with epics . . . never entered the zone with a single alt.

[Odys]

So i m beating an old dog. I agree with people posting about solo quest lines.There should be a way to do step 4 before step 1-3 as long as you are grouped with someone on 4. Asuming that later you will do steps 1-3 in order to fully validate step 4. It would certainly break a bit te story but anyway if you group with someone on step 4the story is already broken.There is there probably some new system to be designed. Currently i got so bored soloing that i decided to play some of my alts.

[Hukklebuk]

<cite>agememnon wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Killerbee3000 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Earar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p> but you can quest with another player though <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15"></p></blockquote><p>if he is on the same part of the questline as you...</p><p>which is another flaw of rok, quest lines make it harder to team up, if you do so you just end up back tracking to get others up to the step you are at and then after the first nice reward they have excuses like I have to pick up my kid from school, i need to walk the dog otr hes going to sh** on the sofa...</p></blockquote><p>I completely agree with this being on of the bigger problems with RoK.  the linear nature of the quest lines makes it a nightmare to do in a group.  This weekend some guildies and I decided to work on some of the heroic quest lines in Seb.  It seemed like a good idea at the time, and infact we did have fun exploring bits of Seb that we had not been to before (who knew Seb is actually a decent dungeon).  But the prolem we had was the person furthest on in the quest lines got no, yes no, updates on her quest, as a 4hour play period was spent getting everybody else up to the same point.  Now we can go back to Seb next time all of us are on and continue this quest line, but the chances of having exactly the same group are slim, and then if we fill up with other peeps we have to go and run throught the first 5 quests in the series again.  The way the quests work in Rok, it is actually a disadvantage to group up - now for a MMO this would seem to me to be a contradiction.  </p><p>One thought I did have is that it would be helpful if the quest sharing could be tweak,ed so that if you try and share quest number 4 in a series, your group mates that are not eligible for 4 are offered instead the first one they are eligible for (be that 1, 2, or 3).  This would save the huge time sink of having to leave a dungeon and run half way accross another zone to go hail an npc after every quest.  </p><p>Krussh</p><p>80 paladin</p><p>The Lost Order</p><p>Splitpaw</p></blockquote>I just wonder sometimes if the 'Mission' style adventures you could do in Omens of War (or the LDoN stuff folks bring up) would be nice filler in EQ2,  use the same dungeons, perhaps, who knows, but  there certainly isn't enough contested dungeon stuff in RoK.  I know they did their studies and figured people solo overland and use instances to crawl (still trying to figure out why bother here with regards to RoK), but I think RoK could have been filled out by an SoS or PoA type place.  It doesn't have to have quests to force you in, just have it there...    Put some incredibly rare drops in that are tradeable for God's sake (and no not raid quality gear, but [Removed for Content] close - or some click effect or something harmless on the item).  Not everything decent has to be NO-TRADE.   let folks fight over pulls and camps a little bit.   Everything is so sanitized.  How about opening it up a little.  Personally I'd like to see some decent stuff on the broker, but then that takes us back to raid itemization which is somewhat better than launch, but still pretty shameful.here drop mob X in dungeon Y and have it drop something like the Wand of Imperceptibility (eq1) or something.  maybe I'm crazy... it's well past my bedtime....  ignore or rant,  frankly the beggining of this mindless rant could probably be implemented between expansions and just give stuff to do,  make some contested, make some instanced, Hell make it a choice at zone in... with contested giving better drop rates than instanced, I don't know.gnight.