Grouping 101

[darxar]

Ok, I have only been in a few groups, solo most of my way to 31, however i was in a group the other night in TS, and we had a nice size group, most of the rooms were tight, the tank was doing ok, I keep pulling hate , but one thing that was a real problem, is the tank was not turning the mob, and sometimes the room was so tight i could not get behind, so all im left with is basic attacks, maybe a flanking , ...  question..  whats the best way to let the tank know that they need to turn the mob.   several times i just took the mob and it started wacking on me..  so i used my solo skills.. walk the plank etc... the healer's started healing me and the mob went down fine.  but..  im not the tank, not sure, I dont want to offend and im still new with grouping.   so whats the best way to help / tell them that turning the mob lets me use more of my skills?

[Jeffmaster]

<p>You will sadly get bad tanks often, especially at low levels. Keep doing what you do, if it works...heck you can even tank yourself !! I tank Vaults, MC, COA, Chelsith....any instance with no trouble...</p><p>But with a good tank, you will not steal aggro, unless you go all out in the first 2 seconds...</p>

[darxar]

<cite>Jeffmaster wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>You will sadly get bad tanks often, especially at low levels. Keep doing what you do, if it works...heck you can even tank yourself !! I tank Vaults, MC, COA, Chelsith....any instance with no trouble...</p><p>But with a good tank, you will not steal aggro, unless you go all out in the first 2 seconds...</p></blockquote>Thanks for the tips, i use all the skills that remove hate that I can, and like you said, found out if I wait a few seconds that tends to help, and I found out, when the mob is about 1/2 for trash and 1/3 for boss/named i can go all out, with the dps i can see the bar moving .. pretty funny. 

[Wilyum]

<p>Who says you can't use Walk the Plank all the time?  Many times I have had to fight the mob right next to the tank and I just fire away with it.  Nothing wrong with letting the tank hit the mob in the back too <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>But to address your commo issue with the group..........speak up!  Some people might not understand your class.  Just let em know in a tactful and respectful way.</p>

[Razlath]

<cite>Jeffmaster wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>You will sadly get bad tanks often, especially at low levels. Keep doing what you do, if it works...heck you can even tank yourself !! I tank Vaults, MC, COA, Chelsith....any instance with no trouble...</p><p>But with a good tank, you will not steal aggro, unless you go all out in the first 2 seconds...</p></blockquote><p>Before you go this route, try talking to the tank.  You can use tells or groups.  Just throw something out like the following:</p><p>Not sure if you realize or not, but a lot of scout attacks are positional.  If possible would you mind running around behind the mob once you get it back so that we can get those attacks off easier.  We will be sure to give you the time you need, if you feel like we are rushing you, make an assist button and we won't hit the mob until you call for assist.  Also, not sure if you realize or not, but mobs have much less defensive abilities when attacked from behind so turning the mob will actually help everyone out and more than make up for the time it takes to turn it.</p><p>Too many times people assume that a tank who doesn't turn the mob is a bad tank.  Notice that my suggestion includes telling them exactly what you are wanting.  Chances are if they aren't doing it already asking them to turn the mob or spin the mob might not make much sense and rather than admit they don't know they might just ignore you.  Now, if you ask and they refuse (note not forget, refuse) then they are a bad tank and you can take whatever measures you feel are appropriate in that situation (including hitting them on the nose with a newspaper Bad tank... Bad Bad tank!).  A guildie of mine is just starting to group with his tank and he often asks me for advice.  Sometimes I get the "oh that is why you do that" effect.  ;}  Communication is key as is patience.  If you are not willing to wait for the mob to be spun (and I mean wait not say you will then attack before the mob is halfway around) then you will need to deal with a tank not turning the mobs.  Some groups I have been in want it, others don't.  When I am tanking I usually start any group turning the mobs, but if the DPSers continuously pull aggro before I am positioned that is one of the first things that will go if warnings are not heeded.</p>

[darxar]

<cite>Dartak@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Jeffmaster wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>You will sadly get bad tanks often, especially at low levels. Keep doing what you do, if it works...heck you can even tank yourself !! I tank Vaults, MC, COA, Chelsith....any instance with no trouble...</p><p>But with a good tank, you will not steal aggro, unless you go all out in the first 2 seconds...</p></blockquote><p>Before you go this route, try talking to the tank.  You can use tells or groups.  Just throw something out like the following:</p><p>Not sure if you realize or not, but a lot of scout attacks are positional.  If possible would you mind running around behind the mob once you get it back so that we can get those attacks off easier.  We will be sure to give you the time you need, if you feel like we are rushing you, make an assist button and we won't hit the mob until you call for assist.  Also, not sure if you realize or not, but mobs have much less defensive abilities when attacked from behind so turning the mob will actually help everyone out and more than make up for the time it takes to turn it.</p><p>Too many times people assume that a tank who doesn't turn the mob is a bad tank.  Notice that my suggestion includes telling them exactly what you are wanting.  Chances are if they aren't doing it already asking them to turn the mob or spin the mob might not make much sense and rather than admit they don't know they might just ignore you.  Now, if you ask and they refuse (note not forget, refuse) then they are a bad tank and you can take whatever measures you feel are appropriate in that situation (including hitting them on the nose with a newspaper Bad tank... Bad Bad tank!).  A guildie of mine is just starting to group with his tank and he often asks me for advice.  Sometimes I get the "oh that is why you do that" effect.  ;}  Communication is key as is patience.  If you are not willing to wait for the mob to be spun (and I mean wait not say you will then attack before the mob is halfway around) then you will need to deal with a tank not turning the mobs.  Some groups I have been in want it, others don't.  When I am tanking I usually start any group turning the mobs, but if the DPSers continuously pull aggro before I am positioned that is one of the first things that will go if warnings are not heeded.</p></blockquote>thanks, i just want to be nice and make sure I am right about the tank turning the mob?

[Razlath]

<cite>darxar wrote:</cite><blockquote>thanks, i just want to be nice and make sure I am right about the tank turning the mob?</blockquote><p>You are very right.  There may be reasons why the tank isn't doing so (some I noted in my post) but most often it is because they don't understand that it matters a LOT.</p><p>If you present it as something you need for your class to be effective then you will probably get farther than telling the tank, "hey you are supposed to spin the mob!"  Nothing grates on my nerves faster, no matter what char I am playing, than someone telling me or others in the group how to play.  Backseat tankers are some of the worst.  ;}  I like to try to present things in a way of what I need to be effective.  It seems to go over better and everyone knows you are just trying to do the best job you can for the group.</p><p>If you are having a particular trouble with a tank dropping aggro on you, you can say something like:</p><p>I really need the mob to not be targetting me in order to get off my best attacks.  Should I be waiting longer to engage, or is there any re-useable snap aggro you can throw closer to the top of the fight?  I am using all of my detaunts I have, but it doesn't seem to be helping, anything you can do would be greatly appreciated.</p><p>The trick is being specific in what you want without telling the person what buttons to push.  You could have said the above as "Hey hit your group and regular taunts on pull, and be sure you are hitting the mob with a stun attack ASAP otherwise I am going to get aggro and then I can't do squat."  It comes off a lot more like backseat tanking.  Not everyone cares, but if you want a really good group experience it is best when the group gets along well.  It also gives that player an option to ask for more pointers.  Realizing that you are a reasonable individual who wants a good experience, they may be more willing to ask for suggestions on specifics.  If you don't want to or can not take the time to train someone then your best bet is probably just to find a different group.</p><p>Obviously these things are more true in the lower lvl groups.  One would hope that by 50 or so they have grouped enough that you wouldn't have to ask.  I still try to give peeps the benefit of the doubt though.  As easy and effecient as it is to solo in this game they may very well have never grouped before then.</p>