Anything positive? [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

Artist

02-11-2008, 10:52 AM

After reading all that negative from the sticked threads with "feedback" and "suggestions" I feel a bit of frustrated. I love templar class for romantic reasons, role-play reasons and its cool name. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> (level 40 ATM, PVE)Please tell that templars are not completely broken in game mechanic, that it could be fun class to play and really helpful class for others.Or am I idealizing too much?

Leiv

02-11-2008, 12:01 PM

Templars are not broken. You have to realize that the people making the most noise on the forums are the whiners. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> People who are happy about the state of things will not make as much noise.Warden might in theory come close, but I'd chose templar as main healer any time. This is even more true at level 80 with the new repent spell.Only problem I can really see with templar is that they need quite a lot of AA to not be a nuisance to play solo.

Leiv

02-11-2008, 12:17 PM

... besides if you take a look at the other priest forums you'll see that every single class is sucky, completely broken, and worse than every single other priest class. Which of course is a kind of interesting proposition.My favorite statement is from a raiding thread on the warden forum: "I mean, if you take away our heals, then of what use would we be?". It would seem that the general consensus there would be that wardens are crappy healers. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Caethre

02-11-2008, 12:27 PM

<cite>Artist wrote:</cite><blockquote>After reading all that negative from the sticked threads with "feedback" and "suggestions" I feel a bit of frustrated. I love templar class for romantic reasons, role-play reasons and its cool name. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> (level 40 ATM, PVE)Please tell that templars are not completely broken in game mechanic, that it could be fun class to play and really helpful class for others.Or am I idealizing too much?</blockquote>OOC.The following is all my (well-informed) opinion.Most of us accept there are good and bad points to our class. I stress: Being someone who gives "negative" feedback on aspects of the game does not make anyone a "whiner", and those who often refer in this way to people who given negative feedback that they do not agree with are simply trying to flame, which is unhelpful (as well as being against the rules of this forum). I'll leave that there and respond to your post. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />If you want to endgame raid, you are made here. This class is *desired*. That said, ask someone other than me about the subject of raiding, it's not my bag at all.If you have a regular group of good friends in a balanced group-setting, or at least are in a large and/or highly active guild with reliable guildmates where you are always in demand, and if love doing instances and contested content with them, you are also well placed to enjoy this game as a Templar. I am not saying we are better than other classes in this regard, but we certainly hold our own very well.Where we suffer quite badly compared to some other priest classes (and always have, well, since LU#13 anyway, tho not as badly since KOS release), is for small group and solo player playstyles. The Templar is at a marked disadvantage compared to druids if you love (for example) duo play, as we have more than enough healing (as do the druids), but are still even now, even with maximum damage spec'ing AP skills, lacking in DPS and truely meaningful/useful utility. Some players will say "if you want to solo/duo, don't play a Templar", but I would contest this by saying that the EQII box does not carry a "WARNING: This class is relatively weak for solo and small group play", and many of us will keep making that same feedback for as long as it remains true.So, if you are primarily a small group and solo player, you would be better off as a druid. I hate saying this, and I wish ever so much that it were not true, but it remains true, and every time I play my Fury in the same setting that I have just played my Templar in, in a duo, it reinforces this fact. This is why there are twice as many active druids than clerics (at least), even allowing for the fact that amongst raiders, clerics are actually often loved. That said, I stick as being a Templar for exactly the reasons you quoted. Roleplay reasons, romantic reasons, love of "this character". The class is still very playable. It is just weaker than some (well, most) other classes when it comes to small group and solo play. Some will tell you otherwise, but they are not the ones who actually spend all (or 95%) of their gaming time actually soloing or in small groups.It is not all negative. The class has its good points. Just treat it as a balance.Edited for grammer. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Edited again, to make Echgar happier. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Davarok

02-11-2008, 04:33 PM

Templars are kind of a pain to get started solo or duo. However, if they are specced for pure melee DPS, they truly shine once they get into their 30s. With STR/AGI/STA my lvl 45 Templar is actually now one of my best solo/duo characters. Albeit more slowly, I can solo things that even my Shadowknight could not at the same level (green ^^^ named mobs). I duo with a Fury consistently and do enough DPS to easily keep single-target aggro off of her 99% of the time. The only bad thing here about Templars is their real lack of AoE damage. If you max the STR line your spells (heals) can't be interrupted, which will let you survive normal group encounters, but those fights can take a while.And by the way, Templar/Fury can be an incredible duo. One of the best I've played so far.

Echgar

02-11-2008, 05:12 PM

<cite>Felishanna@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>The following is all my (well-informed) opinion. That is actually a redundent statement, but without it there is always someone who insists I should have explicitly said it. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" />The fanbois and the hardcore raiders are (usually) happy with our class.</blockquote>Before I have to get out the fire hoses and rubber bullets, let's be a little more careful with the generalizations and subtle digs at different people/groups. Referring to people as "fanbois" can sometimes be meant in a friendly manner, but it is often meant (and can be taken) as an insult.I understand there is a whole lot of history between some people on this forum so let's be a bit more careful please. Different people will have differing opinions on in-game issues depending on their playstyle, experience, values, and a whole lot of other factors. It is better to talk about how *you* personally feel without giving the appearance that you speak for the majority or similar -- that is how several of the arguments here have developed in the past and have led to many moderator migraines. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

LowfyrWildforge

02-14-2008, 09:40 AM

A few points:<ol><li> Templars are desired for raiding -- but almost never more than 1 or 2 a guild. You want to be in the MT group, you need to know what you're doing.</li><li> Templars who say templars cannot solo well do not know their class as well as they think they do. It's true, we can't solo Doom (or at least, I can't). But there are a lot of situations where the Templar will live, and the Fury will not. You can get decent DPS as a solo templar; you may not kill as fast as some of the other classes, but you can do it in a stress free environment, knowing that the chances of you dying are next to zero.</li><li>Not good for small group play, eh? Interesting. I trio'd deep seb with a monk and a fury yesterday to get my 20 whipcracker updates. Granted, I did 95% of the healing, but that's to be expected. My gear is good, but not amazing. My spells are, however, above average, having 21 of my T8 Masters.</li></ol> To sum up, being good as a Templar takes a different mindset and playstyle than playing a Fury. If you try to play a Templar like a Fury, you will, indeed, suck. And that's where the vast majority of confusion seems to come from.

Caethre

02-14-2008, 07:22 PM

<cite>LowfyrWildforge wrote:</cite><blockquote>Templars who say templars cannot solo well do not know their class as well as they think they do. </blockquote>OOC.That's one opinion.Or perhaps they (or at least, I) know exactly how to play both classes in solo and small group settings rather better than those who think Templars are 'better' soloers do? That's another opinion.I suggest that you be careful making statements implying that those who hold a different view from you are somehow less knowledgeable, less skilled, less experienced or less informed than you. Personally, I am an expert at both classes in solo and small group settings, know exactly the best way to play both, and indeed, have completed just about all the solo and small group content in the entire game with both classes, over the last two years (as Fury) and three years (as Templar). I know very well what can and cannot be done on solo/small-group content, or more to the point, how quickly/easily it can be done (since ability to complete this content is not usually the issue, but rather, the relative speed and ease of doing it). I have reported for years now my ongoing observations that Templars are considerably slower at solo and small group play than Furies, and it continues to be my observation, and the difference is significant on DPS alone, even without considering the impact of free group invis and group cheetah.Feedback is for anyone, and mine is for all those non-raiding solo and small group players without big guilds to carry them through content. I acknowledge it is almost always at odds to those with raid gear, but that doesn't actually make either observation incorrect.You are still entitled to hold another opinion, of course. Opinions will always vary. That all said, I still think it is not all bad. Things are much better for clerics now than they were at one point (between DOF and ROK).

Sirenta

02-15-2008, 09:59 AM

Well lets see...a) Templars are needed by every Raid. The amount of HP combined with stoneskin, shield ally and repent (Lvl80 Special) makes us an important member on MT and OT groups.b) Though templars aren't the best soloers in the world, they are the soloers who are most likely the least dying ones.We have TONS of utilities and utility-choices to get away, if things get rough. Stun, Daze, Mezz(Agi+buckler), Repent, Dazedeaggro, sootheEvery single one can be upped at will by AA. We pack a punch of DPS if we skill accordingly.c) We are reliabe single healers in groupsEven though i can eat my keys, healing another Monk/Bruiser (which is easened by Repent) we can outstand every instance. with our utilities mentioned in b) we even do fairly good against adds.Overall the templar is a first to second place in any play situation.He DOES have issues.He IS NOT balanced towards other healclasses.The devs sure as hell can do A LOT better by fixing various issues.BUT... people always complain about issues. If they wouldn't, what chance of fixing would youz consider to have?If you say, hey the templar is great as is, then devs would push some other healclasses even more than they do now.Some spells are not working as described (e.g. Blessings which by description should boost all spells in Blessings-Category. It only affects NON-EPIC Items nowadays, thumbs up to the qa dept. i would not mind if this would have been mentioned, as long as the huge item/spell nerfs of LU 42 which were NOT MENTIONED, man which dev really does think that a loss off over 10% HP will not be recognized???)With this said...PLEASE FIX THE ISSUES OR AT LEAST STAND UP FOR YOUR MISTAKES DEVS!!!

Sirenta

02-15-2008, 10:15 AM

<cite>Felishanna@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>LowfyrWildforge wrote:</cite><blockquote>Templars who say templars cannot solo well do not know their class as well as they think they do. </blockquote>OOC.That's one opinion.Or perhaps they (or at least, I) know exactly how to play both classes in solo and small group settings rather better than those who think Templars are 'better' soloers do? That's another opinion.I suggest that you be careful making statements implying that those who hold a different view from you are somehow less knowledgeable, less skilled, less experienced or less informed than you. Personally, I am an expert at both classes in solo and small group settings, know exactly the best way to play both, and indeed, have completed just about all the solo and small group content in the entire game with both classes, over the last two years (as Fury) and three years (as Templar). I know very well what can and cannot be done on solo/small-group content, or more to the point, how quickly/easily it can be done (since ability to complete this content is not usually the issue, but rather, the relative speed and ease of doing it). I have reported for years now my ongoing observations that Templars are considerably slower at solo and small group play than Furies, and it continues to be my observation, and the difference is significant on DPS alone, even without considering the impact of free group invis and group cheetah.Feedback is for anyone, and mine is for all those non-raiding solo and small group players without big guilds to carry them through content. I acknowledge it is almost always at odds to those with raid gear, but that doesn't actually make either observation incorrect.You are still entitled to hold another opinion, of course. Opinions will always vary. That all said, I still think it is not all bad. Things are much better for clerics now than they were at one point (between DOF and ROK).</blockquote>Well you do know that you do what you don't want him to do? (I know exactly,....., rather better than ....)And you did recognize that you try bashing an argument by shifting the base of it.He said : Templars solo well You said : Templars solo worse than a FuryTwo statements that are not contrary to another, so every discussion is fluff.My opinion:Furies solo faster than templarsTemplars have to skill AA to accomplish a comparable pace, but they do solo more reliable (in words, they die a lot less)And point taken, they are way better off with RoK than before, and they can solo green heroics and blue to white caster heroics (depending on gear and AA)Hell if they would be any more efficient they would be coercers =P (This intends the beforewritten sentence to be sarcasm)

Artist

02-15-2008, 10:56 AM

Probably I did not make the clear question. Excuse my English.Each class has good points and bad points.Bad points of templar were discussed to each bit in the sticked threads. I pay great respect for the amount of work to collect them all together and keep updated. I can sign them too if it is needed. For developers looking for ideas to make templars happy they are THE reading number one.Now after reading that much of negative opinions my impressive nature became very sad and full of pity.I read the list of topics on the first page of Templar forum and did not find and positive thread title. That is why I created a new one.What are the good points of templar class?Is there anything that we do better than anyone else? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />

LowfyrWildforge

02-15-2008, 11:15 AM

<cite>Felishanna@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>LowfyrWildforge wrote:</cite><blockquote>Templars who say templars cannot solo well do not know their class as well as they think they do. </blockquote>OOC.That's one opinion.Or perhaps they (or at least, I) know exactly how to play both classes in solo and small group settings rather better than those who think Templars are 'better' soloers do? That's another opinion.I suggest that you be careful making statements implying that those who hold a different view from you are somehow less knowledgeable, less skilled, less experienced or less informed than you. Personally, I am an expert at both classes in solo and small group settings, know exactly the best way to play both, and indeed, have completed just about all the solo and small group content in the entire game with both classes, over the last two years (as Fury) and three years (as Templar). I know very well what can and cannot be done on solo/small-group content, or more to the point, how quickly/easily it can be done (since ability to complete this content is not usually the issue, but rather, the relative speed and ease of doing it). I have reported for years now my ongoing observations that Templars are considerably slower at solo and small group play than Furies, and it continues to be my observation, and the difference is significant on DPS alone, even without considering the impact of free group invis and group cheetah.Feedback is for anyone, and mine is for all those non-raiding solo and small group players without big guilds to carry them through content. I acknowledge it is almost always at odds to those with raid gear, but that doesn't actually make either observation incorrect.You are still entitled to hold another opinion, of course. Opinions will always vary. That all said, I still think it is not all bad. Things are much better for clerics now than they were at one point (between DOF and ROK).</blockquote>Lol, is this a throwdown? I stand by my statement. You say you know your class better than anyone, yet you also say you "have reported for years now ... that Templars are considerably slower at solo and small group play than Furies." You're missing the point entirely. Templars are slower at soloing because they are more defensive. More defense equals less offense. That's how it works. The templar's strength is that he can take a royal arsebeating and still heal and keep things under control. Our healing is the same, roughly, albeit in a different form.If your complaint is that a Templar can't nuke like a Fury, well, play a Fury. But it is absolutely ludicrous to expect a Templar to nuke like a Fury and tank like a Templar. If Sony did that, what reason would there be to play a Fury? None. Everyone would play Templars.

Kendricke

02-15-2008, 11:57 AM

I love a good challenge and I still love the Templar class. It's not the only class I play (and not even my only Tier 8 class at that), but it doesn't mean I don't fully acknowledge the areas where Templars are strong. Let's face it - no one buffs health as well as a Templar. Defilers come close, but when it comes down to it, we're flat out the best class for health buffs (and we don't exactly lack in mitigation buffs, either). Templars have more spells that heal, ward, and mitigate damage than any other class. Our mitigation debuff is one of the best around - and easily the best for priest classes. We're a fantastic class to pair up with melee intensive groups headed up by plate tanks. I'm not talking about just guardians, either. Pair us with paladins and our divine debuff now helps them as well as our mitigation debuff. Pair us with a berserker, and we're able to greatly improve their ability to handle targets. Though we can certainly do well enough with mages, our true strength lies in putting us in groups - large or small - which are melee intensive. Let us throw some Aegolism around (the extra skill buffs may be appreciated - especially when diving into deep Sebilis or Chardok). Even if the fights are absolutely intensive and I have to concentrate almost exclusively on healing, I can still wade into the fight with just autoattack and help with a few hundred DPS. Are there many furies out there that can claim the same? Even without raid gear, I can handle over 9,000 points of direct damage...and my mitigation certainly seems to help a bit more with the myriad of crushing and slashing AE's we're seeing in Kunark. ...and if the fight is going south quickly, I can toss a stun here or there to help my group stabalize the current situation. There's a lot of positive strengths to the class - even solo or in small groups - or you wouldn't see many players bothering with it. Our true strengths lie in healing groups, however. I know I've solo healed deep dungeons and instances so far - areas where most groups would be hesitant or wary to attempt the same with a solo healing Fury. If that's not a positive strength for us, I'm not exactly sure what is. I don't claim we have no weaknesses, of course, and I certainly don't blind myself to the idea that the class could use improvement...but then again, which class doesn't need improvement? It's a universal truth that there exist players of all classes (in all games) who seem to believe that their own particula class is "broken" in some way. I don't believe I'm an expert on our class, and I wouldn't deign to pretend to speak for any other templars here - I'm no representative of anyone here save myself. Thats said, I don't personally see how anyone can continue to play a class - any class - when they frequently have nothing positive to say about it. I've long been an advocate for players adapting - either adapt their playstyles to fit their chosen class, adapt to a new class to fit their chosen playstyles, or just adapt to a new game. I just don't understand how someone can spend so much time in a game playing a character or class that they just dislike that much. So I don't try to understand it. I don't play the class because of their opinions. You shouldn't either, Artist. Find the strengths of the class you've chosen and see if they match to the playstyle you prefer. If so, then it doesn't matter how much negativity other players may feel about the class. The real opinion that matters should be your own. Happy hunting. Safe travels.

Sirenta

02-15-2008, 12:07 PM

Actually yes.we have by far the best possibility to buff and maintain a single target.- 2 Group buffs with +hp,+resi and + hp,+miti- 1 Single +hp buffNets the most buffed raw HP (though Defilers have a close second)- Stoneskin (enhanceable by AA)- Shield Ally (AA)- Spread heals (Lotto heals) these may be beat by the Inqui Special, BUT thats his special,we have them from day one.- 3 of the best Specials ingame (Divine blabla - HP Balancer, Sanctuary - No Fear or whatsoever, Repent - decent ward which heals on top)- Deaggromachine (given only if skilled) with Soothe, Deaggro and OverconfidenceSome other points come in handy but are not no1, but surely if seen in addition.shortly put, we are best on keeping ourselves and 1 other guy alive.And i do think we are far superior in whining also.And at last Templars do it with style. See the feminine looking leaves and roots of druids, the cute little christmas glitter of shamans and the massive gold and silver glowing Shields and Swords of clerics and tell me what animation pictures the word PROTECTION best.

PeterJohn

02-15-2008, 12:58 PM

Number one reason for playing Templar for me:Small group battles are extremely fun! Keeping everyone alive is challenging in many battles. When the group remarks after a long hard battle, that it was an easy fight requiring little effort or was much easier than last time they fought that mob, I feel great. It is never an easy fight for me keeping everyone alive. Especially all of those over-enthusiastic DPS folks who don't know how to avoid getting aggro.I can't imagine it being much fun as a DPS class just targeting the tank and dealing out DPS. The aggro management of a tank might be fun, I will have to try that some day. And I can't wait to start raiding some day.

Caethre

02-15-2008, 03:11 PM

<cite>LowfyrWildforge wrote:</cite> <blockquote>If your complaint is that a Templar can't nuke like a Fury ... If Sony did that, what reason would there be to play a Fury? None. Everyone would play Templar...You're missing the point entirely...Lol, is this a throwdown?...</blockquote>OOC.Points 1 & 2 - That is not what I said. What I actually did say was in my post. The current situation is where (in my experience) most solo and small group players are actually playing Furies (or at least, druids). I'd love a situation where Templar and Fury were equally good options for solo and small group players, not where the the imbalance is just reversed.Point 3 - I am not missing any point, I fully understand exactly what you are saying, I simply do not agree with some of it. As I said before, opinions vary.Point 4 - No, it is not a "throwdown", it is simply my opinion, from which I base my own contribution to the thread. Yes, it is coming from a very experienced, veteran player of both Templar and Fury classes, who plays almost exclusively in solo and small group settings with both classes, but it is still just an opinion.Lowfyr, let it go please. We both posted our contributions on the subject, but there is no need to continue posting your opinion of my opinion, as that is unhelpful. If you really must comment further on my comments, send them to me in PMs. Thanks.<cite>Kendricke wrote:</cite><blockquote>The real opinion that matters should be your own.</blockquote>To the OP, really, this is the key statement. Read the input of others, look at what playstyle you have yourself, try it out, and form your own view on what works for you. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Edit: Fixed the colours mix-up.

LowfyrWildforge

02-19-2008, 09:55 AM

If someone on this forum started declaring that the sun rose in the west, that would be their opinion, but it wouldn't make it true. To stand by and let people actually believe that Templars are only really useful in raids or in full groups is a disservice to the community. The constant whining about things that aren't broken is the digital equivalent of crying wolf. There are things that could be better for Templars. I wasn't particularly wild about the two rounds of Blessings nerfings in recent months, for instance. The fact is, Templars are great and very enjoyable to solo -- if you use the right strategy. There are two routes to good dps: melee, or nuking. Personally, I've never really found a melee setup that I liked, and it's more satisfying to throw around the wrath of the gods, so I went the nuke route. That means I balance +spell crits and + spell damage with avoidance and mit. Ancient Dreadscale Greaves for extra damage avoidance. A Guard of Drelikus. All these things help. Switching for groups and raids is basically the same procedure as getting ready for a hot date: put on a new outfit, and check yourself out in the mirror. Yeah, I have decent gear, and I'm one of the most mastered Templars on the server, now. But I didn't have that great of stuff when I was the third in my guild to hit 80. What I had was very specific gear specifically designed to let me solo as well as possible. I ditched the old stuff as soon as possible, upgraded spells to adept III asap, and every gain I made just made things easier. When I had to kill eleven billion(+/- 10,999,999,600) drakes for my Epic, I tried to solo them. I say try because people kept coming to help me out, because they thought for some reason that soloing was hard for Templars. The reason some of these urban myths continue is because we have templars running around with sub 20 percent avoidance and sub 50 mit. "I'm not going to get aggro if the tank is doing his job," is not the point. A templar's job is to serve as insurance for the group. You don't need a templar when things are easy. You need one when all Thule is breaking loose. Part of that insurance is making sure you can take a beating from a monster (or three) when you're keeping the tank alive. Templars and Furies ARE equally good options for healer classes in both solo, small group, group, and raid milleus, they are just radically different playstyles. That's not an opinion. That's a fact.

PeterJohn

02-19-2008, 01:09 PM

I love wearing plate as a Templar healer. Went after Varsoon last night with a group, and when Varsoon realized my healing was keeping the Tank alive, guess who he came after? If I wasn't wearing plate, I would not have survived long enough to have the Tank regain aggro. What a great night!

Caethre

02-19-2008, 03:50 PM

<cite>LowfyrWildforge wrote:</cite><blockquote>Templars and Furies ARE equally good options for healer classes in both solo, small group...That's not an opinion. That's a fact.</blockquote>OOC.That is just an opinion, whether you think it is or not. Indeed, I have countless comparative parses in solo settings versus solo content, which prove your statement not to be the case. Regardless, the personal attacks (eg references to "whining" ) in your post are not helpful.Lowfyr, as I have asked already, will you just agree to disagree and leave it there please.

Echgar

02-19-2008, 04:48 PM

<cite>Felishanna@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>LowfyrWildforge wrote:</cite><blockquote>Templars and Furies ARE equally good options for healer classes in both solo, small group...That's not an opinion. That's a fact.</blockquote>OOC.That is just an opinion, whether you think it is or not. The personal attacks (eg references to "whining" ) in your post are not helpful.</blockquote>Folks, we're not going to do this. Thread closed.I have made one previous post in this thread, moderated a few other posts, contacted a couple participants individually, and we are not going to keep going around and around.I understand that some of you have some very strong opinions about your class and as with many class forums in EverQuest II, there are certain posters that will be very passionate and say things as "fact" that are stated as such just to antagonize others. Several of you are very knowledgeable with certain aspects of the game, but it is important to keep in mind that your perspective may be just that -- one perspective subject to interpretation. Respect each other's opinions and resist the urge to accuse each other of wrongdoing -- let the moderation staff do the moderating please. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />