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MuliganVanJurai
01-12-2008, 07:10 PM
<p>I felt that this would be something to look into more on the PvP server but could be applicable on PvE servers as well.  Since Everquest 2 will probably maintain their current servers for quite some time and new servers are not necessary, it would be a nice option to have the opportunity to change classes (maybe a one time thing or for a certain amount of money).  Instead of rerolling characters or starting new toons, characters could keep their classes, contacts, etc. and play characters they feel would be more fun, suitable to their guild, or just a change.  I think this would encourage older, fatigued, or frustrated players to either continue playing or reactivate.  Let's face it, sometimes you make a mistake or you just feel another class would be more suitable for the way you play but, you've put so much time and effort into that class and you really can't start over.  Thus eventually lose interest or grow tiresome with your class.</p><p>I am, by no means, wanting to make this an easy option.  Here is my proposal...</p><p>Implement an NPC which offers a series of training exercises (instance quests)...  For every 10 levels there should be a tier of training exercises. (i.e. 20's would have to complete 2 series of training exercises, 70's  would have to complete 7 series of quests.)</p><p>Freeport classes could only change to Freeport class and Qeynos only to their allow classes.  The sacrifice would be losing the ability of neither equip your equipment or sell it on a broker.  Equipment would either have to be kept or sold to a NPC merchant.  All spells would be just as if you betrayed, Apprentice I up to your current level.  </p><p>This is something I was kicking around in my mind and with some friends to help keep the game fresh.  The reason I feel this would be beneficial to PvP servers (or maybe all servers) would be since changes and balancing occur throughout the year this gives people who are dissatisfied the opportunity to have fun.  Maybe even if new classes are implemented in the future we wouldn't have to reroll but after a period of time added to the Change your Class class.  </p><p>I'm curious to see if people could see the potential benefit of implementing such a quest. </p><p>Take care,</p><p>Muli</p>

idropdimes
01-12-2008, 08:11 PM
<p>I'd like this idea, i would change my 73necro into anything else.</p><p>pls pls pls</p>

Psych
01-12-2008, 08:36 PM
Its a cool idea but does it really take that long to level?also, I'd only want this if it removed all your AA points...and i dont think anybody would do it if it did.

idropdimes
01-12-2008, 08:52 PM
Took me a year to get to 73 and i'd rather not lose all 80(laugh i know) AA

MuliganVanJurai
01-12-2008, 11:04 PM
<p>I would think you would get to keep your AA's (of course placed back into your unused pool) just as you would get to retain your level... maybe as part of a penalty, revert down to the lowest 10th...  For example.. a 23 would revert to a 20 just as a 29 would revert back to 20.  Thus you would want to be at a 10th or at least close to one.</p><p>I think it would be a valuable implementation and there wouldn't be much to it from a coding aspect.  Due to the current betrayal system, it would work somewhat similiar at the end result. </p><p>Would like to see what developers think...</p><p>Take care,</p><p>Muli</p>

Ichigoo
01-13-2008, 02:40 AM
I love this idea. Though Vox has something similar called the station exchange. its not exactly pick what you want but when you do get a class change and sometimes it comes with a lot more than you bargained for. the cost though instead of quests and game time is a lot of RL moneys and i'm not sure if thats what you meant with that pay a price statement.

sprogn
01-13-2008, 05:49 AM
If they go through with this, they may as well force every class to a Swash or a Brigand as soon as they ding 80...

Kujino
01-13-2008, 05:54 AM
I think this would be a great idea, for those who later on get bored with their class, i think it would keep more people playing the game, however i think you should be docked 10 levels when you change class, or some kind of penalty, but nothing major.P.S.If anyone has a toon on Vox server qeynos side, please tell the guild Draconic Elite that Kujino will return, i've been gone for months due to computer problems (on my friends atm) but i will return soon.Thanks

Saintedone
01-13-2008, 06:16 AM
 Come to Vox troll the Station Exchange for a couple weeks your sure to get something you will enjoy playing and might get lucky and be maxxed AA or full of plat.

thebirdisinthenest
01-13-2008, 04:58 PM
this is a great idea i really hope they do this.

Breiya
01-13-2008, 05:18 PM
I think something like this would be nice.  I really hate deleting a char that I no longer like to play, especially one that I've taken lots of time setting up a cool house for and "claiming" all the rewards.  As a true alt-aholic, I wish they would add more char slots but this would be nice instead, then I would finally be able to try whatever class I want without losing everything I've worked for <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

Elendhelie
01-13-2008, 05:26 PM
Id love this, Ive got an SK Ive sorta lost the feel for. But shes got such a nice house set up, I dont want to delete her because Id have to take down all that stuff, and put it in the shared bank. Thats as bad as reformatting Windoze! Id switch her to Inquisitor, or one of the healer classes...

Hinosh
01-13-2008, 05:43 PM
<p>I doubt SoE would put in a change like this, because it doesn't make sense if you actually thought about it.</p><p>e.g. You start a new character and decide to be a Conjurer. You get to level 50ish, and decide you want to be a Berserker instead. Several things are wrong with this idea:</p><p>1. If you aren't used to playing as a Berserker, you're going to die alot. A Conjurer sends his pet in and stays away from the fight casting spells at his target while his pet takes all the damage, while Berserkers get all up in their opponents' faces while they hack & slash their way to victory.</p><p>2. If you are used to playing as a Berserker, why did you wait until level 50 before quitting your Conjurer if that isn't what you wanted to play?</p><p>3. Your equipment is going to be cloth when your new class would work better in plate.</p><p>4. Your character trained his 50 levels in Conjuring, not Berserking.</p>

Elephanton
01-13-2008, 06:05 PM
<p>1. Roll class which is easy for level grinding.2. Get to 80.3. Change it to guard or cleric.</p><p>Hmm...</p>

Ekelefer
01-13-2008, 11:57 PM
<p><cite>Hinosh wrote: </cite></p><p><b><i><span style="color: #cc9900;">Ok, in no way am I berating or calling your points wrong. I am simply countering them with  what is only my opinion. That said, here is what I think. </span></i></b></p><blockquote><p>I doubt SoE would put in a change like this, because it doesn't make sense if you actually thought about it.</p><p><span style="color: #ffcc00;">It makes no less sense than say, a Gnome Guardian proecting his ally from a Troll Berserker, even if were trying to make sense of things outside the reality of EQ2 though frankly within that reality, anything can make sense, such as a three foot humanoid who weighs no more than ninety pounds stopping a seven foot monstrosity from killing his healer by becoming a physical obstacle.</span></p><p>e.g. You start a new character and decide to be a Conjurer. You get to level 50ish, and decide you want to be a Berserker instead. Several things are wrong with this idea:</p><p><span style="color: #ffcc00;">This is a "you can't teach an old dog new tricks" mentality which simply comes up short when applied to a person that is both smart and willing enough to learn something new. </span></p><p>1. If you aren't used to playing as a Berserker, you're going to die alot. A Conjurer sends his pet in and stays away from the fight casting spells at his target while his pet takes all the damage, while Berserkers get all up in their opponents' faces while they hack & slash their way to victory.</p><p><span style="color: #ffcc00;">Other than to detail what will happen when switching from a Conjurer to a Berserker how does this rebuttal the OP's praposel? Unless we assume a player who has the forethought and motivation to go through a series of quests sucessfully lacks enough of the aforementioned to reliaze a new class will have to be learned and as a consequence he will die alot.</span></p><p>2. If you are used to playing as a Berserker, why did you wait until level 50 before quitting your Conjurer if that isn't what you wanted to play?</p><p><span style="color: #ffcc00;">Maybe what the player imagined the class to be is not what is turns out to be. Maybe he has grown bored of the chosen class and wants to try a new one, which happens often and as a result a great number of high-end, former main characters (hours upon hours of dedicated work) sit collecting dust. Maybe it is simply the player's perogitive and in my opinion, that is the all the justification a player needs.</span></p><p>3. Your equipment is going to be cloth when your new class would work better in plate.</p><p><span style="color: #ffcc00;">Re-gear and as a natural consequence you'll have to raise all your defensive abilties (and offensive).</span></p><p>4. Your character trained his 50 levels in Conjuring, not Berserking.</p><p><span style="color: #ffcc00;">Which is why he'll spend alot of time grinding melee skills/defense up, which in my opinion is all the penalty needed.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ffcc00;"> To ElephantonRU: Are you implying that because it is arduous to level certain classes that aren't alpha-dogs in the end-game that it should continue to be this way simply because it has always been this way? Or is it that roving bands of clerics and guardians will begin lay wasting to entire zones? I agree, a few of the rarer, frustrating to level classes will see an increase in population but I can't see how that is bad. As it is now, rogues/predators have an easy time leveling, have an easy time solo pvping and are useful in groups, so what if people can bypass a gross treadmill of frustration and boredom when it has readily been accepted for players who choose predators/rogues to have an easy time throughout their gaming experience and are alpha-classes to boot.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ffcc00;">OP: Great idea IMO</span></p></blockquote>

Storme2006
01-14-2008, 12:17 AM
This would be the option for players with a sort of character ADD, so to speak.   The feeling I get is that people who want to do this are just bored with their class.A few disadvantages would stem from this, but I'll state the obvious.  I play a Berserker.  My best friend plays a Ranger.  I have no idea how to play his class and max his DPS, and he has no idea how to play mine and stay on top of hate.  You learn how to play by leveling.  And so help me, if someone switched my class to Swash today, I'd be the worst Swash on the server.Leveling up taught me to play a Berserker and tank, but not much else.   Do you want crappy players?

Vincenzo
01-14-2008, 12:22 AM
I hate this idea.We already have a lack of Guardians at the lower levels because people tend to go Berserker and then "reroll" Guardian by betraying once they levelled up.Many people would choose Necro, and then reroll to a less soloable class once they reach their required level.I'm sorry but this just isn't in the spirit of Everquest.

Firecracker
01-14-2008, 01:06 AM
<p>I will have to say this subject has been brought up before, perhaps many times and at one time one the threads got locked because of it, so this won't happen.</p><p>Now as my opinion on the idea, I read somewhere due to datebase involved with said class that it couldn't or can't happen but I do have one thing to say that <span style="color: #0000cc;">I know it can happen if let's say you wanted to change to a necro from a wizard because at one time we were able to pick between the sub classes like if I made mage at level one and then once I go to level 10 I can pick between summoner, enchanter, and scorcer. So with that being said the database is there for that but not for a mage type class turning to fighter type class</span> I would think. </p><p>So if we wanted to at least perhaps get the devs to maybe consider <span style="color: #0000cc;">this </span>you might have better chance I would think for it's already there. just look how certain things in game know what class we are and these things are by class type only to. I feel it's there but weather they want to take the time to do it is another story.</p><p>Now on side note if it was to be ever considered, I feel that is should be very costly and quest intensive involved for we are pretty much starting are whole life over with a new class so we need to be trained very well especially if we are cap level and we do lose any and all upgrade made so it kinda works like betrayal. So we lose money to be trained, lose upgrades, and waste are time doing a bunch quest's to make this possible is my idea but as I said it won't happen I am sure. </p>

MuliganVanJurai
01-14-2008, 01:06 AM
<p>I think Eke answered the points really well... I also believe the complaints are looking passed the obvious.  This is why I considered this process to be a series of "Traing Sessions".  This would also answer the point about being level 50 and having all of that time being a level 50 whatever.  You would go through more tier training sessions depending on your level.</p><p>The spirit of Everquest?  We have gravitated well away from that when EQ2 allowed pretty well every race to play every class.  Also, being no better at any class than a chosen race.  To me, that's not the EQ spirit.  I believe this would allow people to enjoy the game more and in turn encourage growth of older players and new alike.</p><p>This gives everyone an opportunity to change things up and not trap themselves.  There is no reason, even in the realm of fantasy, that a ranger could not put down his bow and decide to learn the path of a warrior.  Why not?  He could have done it at level 1.  </p><p>This is simply a way for people to avoid throwing away all of their hard earned time (and money).  I think it is even more realistic.  You should be able to sacrifice and train to be whatever you like.  I should not have to reroll, lose my common name to those I have played with for years, just because I would like to enjoy the game.  </p><p>I spent several years in EQ1 as a raid cleric.  Once I got a family I wanted to play differently.  I didn't want to look for groups constantly or press a single buttong (Complete Heal) all day long.  I didn't have time to reroll and solo class such as a necro and go through that painful grind.  </p><p>That is simply my opinions and my suggestions.  I appreciate everyone's posts and look forward to more!</p><p> Take care,</p><p>Muli</p>

Storme2006
01-14-2008, 03:05 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>The spirit of Everquest?  We have gravitated well away from that when EQ2 allowed pretty well every race to play every class.  Also, being no better at any class than a chosen race.  To me, that's not the EQ spirit.  I believe this would allow people to enjoy the game more and in turn encourage growth of older players and new alike.<p><b>This gives everyone an opportunity to change things up and not trap themselves.  There is no reason, even in the realm of fantasy, that a ranger could not put down his bow and decide to learn the path of a warrior.  Why not?  He could have done it at level 1. </b> </p><p>This is simply a way for people to avoid throwing away all of their hard earned time (and money).  I think it is even more realistic.  You should be able to sacrifice and train to be whatever you like.  I should not have to reroll, lose my common name to those I have played with for years, just because I would like to enjoy the game.  </p></blockquote>If this is your framework, think of it this way:Levels represent experience/ability/years of training.   A Ranger with 50 months of training as a Ranger should not be able to become a Warrior with 50 months of training without 50 months of training as a Warrior.  What you're arguing is that that 50 months of training is universal, which it's not.  Month 1 (or the beginning of it) would be, but not months past that.Yes, the same basic skills exist, but not enough to warrant a clean cut across the board.  Even with "training sessons" or the quests involved with them, I don't believe that that would bring "converted" players to the skill of normal players, especially not in pvp.

MuliganVanJurai
01-14-2008, 10:13 AM
<p>I agree with you but, if this were to be implemented I believe you would have to provide something... It doesn't take a lot of time to adjust to a new class.  Go off to some low level instances or even some solo ones and just get use to your combat arts.  It's really no different than betrayal.  An Assassin is much differen than a Ranger, i've been there, and people do this all the time.</p><p>Addtionally, you can read up on your new class from online resources to get some guidance as well.</p><p>It's just not that complicated.</p><p>Take care,</p><p>Muli</p>

Sightless
01-14-2008, 10:58 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>The spirit of Everquest?  We have gravitated well away from that when EQ2 allowed pretty well every race to play every class.  Also, being no better at any class than a chosen race.  To me, that's not the EQ spirit.  I believe this would allow people to enjoy the game more and in turn encourage growth of older players and new alike. <p><b>This gives everyone an opportunity to change things up and not trap themselves.  There is no reason, even in the realm of fantasy, that a ranger could not put down his bow and decide to learn the path of a warrior.  Why not?  He could have done it at level 1. </b> </p><p>This is simply a way for people to avoid throwing away all of their hard earned time (and money).  I think it is even more realistic.  You should be able to sacrifice and train to be whatever you like.  I should not have to reroll, lose my common name to those I have played with for years, just because I would like to enjoy the game.  </p></blockquote>If this is your framework, think of it this way:Levels represent experience/ability/years of training.   A Ranger with 50 months of training as a Ranger should not be able to become a Warrior with 50 months of training without 50 months of training as a Warrior.  What you're arguing is that that 50 months of training is universal, which it's not.  Month 1 (or the beginning of it) would be, but not months past that.Yes, the same basic skills exist, but not enough to warrant a clean cut across the board.  Even with "training sessons" or the quests involved with them, I don't believe that that would bring "converted" players to the skill of normal players, especially not in pvp.</blockquote><p>That's why when you switch, you go from Masters Is, and Adept IIIs to App Is. You've lost your 50 months of training, and now have to redo your combat arts.</p><p>I'd quicky switch my Ranger into a Guardian, or a Beserker.</p>

phoenixshard
01-14-2008, 12:37 PM
Bad idea to me. If you want a certain other class, use one of your other slots for that. If you want to be able to change your class at the drop of a hat, you might want to check out Final Fantasy XI, you get one character, but that one character can change classes at any time. It would be much too easy for abuse with the ruleset that EQ2 has in place IMO.

Norrsken
01-14-2008, 12:47 PM
Make adventure class switching work like tradeskill class switching and Im game.Otherwise, hell no.

Bloodfa
01-14-2008, 12:53 PM
Wardens & Warlocks.  And then, when the eventual nerf to Manashield happens (c'mon, you <i>know</i> it's going to happen the first time a Dev runs out and gets wtfpwned-upside-the-head-with-an-order-of-fries and sees just how whacked Warlocks are right now) then everybody would go to something else that got the boost to offset previous squishiness.  Bad idea.  The only ones that would stay somewhat aligned with what they are now would be the ones that need a specific class for raiding.  I kind of like the reset concept along the lines of the tradeskill reset, where the player would need to work back up in levels, though. 

skidmark
01-14-2008, 01:00 PM
A 50% penalty in class levels and AA's achieved. All abilities set to App I. Most of the equipment would become unusable and need to be sold to NPC vendors or xmuted. You would also attain the surname of The Apprentice for the first 14 levels after switching (enough for a full cycle of new spell/ca attainment). The surname could not be hidden and would override any other surname you would have, that way when you group people would know that you are still learning your class. The process could only be done once per character, normal betrayal could be done thereafter however.

Necodem
01-14-2008, 01:21 PM
<p>NO.</p><p>Better balance pvp class mechanics than implant that.</p>

Sightless
01-14-2008, 02:53 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>A 50% penalty in class levels and AA's achieved. All abilities set to App I. Most of the equipment would become unusable and need to be sold to NPC vendors or xmuted. You would also attain the surname of The Apprentice for the first 14 levels after switching (enough for a full cycle of new spell/ca attainment). The surname could not be hidden and would override any other surname you would have, that way when you group people would know that you are still learning your class. The process could only be done once per character, normal betrayal could be done thereafter however.</blockquote>Your levels and AA cut in half? You couldn't max out AAs again if you've already done the quests, and level 40 is easy to attain, but level 80 can be much harder. Especially for those of us with a family, job, et cetera.

Sightless
01-14-2008, 02:54 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>NO.</p><p>Better balance pvp class mechanics than implant that.</p></blockquote>That's the problem, they're not balancing PvP mechanics. They're destroying some classes, while others continue to get much, much stronger, yet some remain on the bottom of the trash heap.

Echgar
01-14-2008, 03:46 PM
While I will leave this thread open for further discussion, the idea to allow an adventure class reset/change comes up every so often.  Grimwell posted about it <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=366561&post_id=4163917" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">here</a> and indicated:<blockquote>So I looked into the "Why can't we reset our adventure class back to 1?" question, because in the perspective of a dedicated tradeskiller who does not like their adv. class it's a very valid question. The answer is that there is no clean way to nuke an adventure class without risking the destruction of the character record. Adventure class is tied to sooooooo many different things, that it's essentially untouchable in terms of a class change. Tradeskill classes were much easier because they aren't tied to a lot of other things. So sorry guys, while it's interesting as an idea, and I can definitely see how the tradeskill population would benefit from it specifically, adventure class reset is just not on the table. </blockquote>

Sightless
01-14-2008, 05:18 PM
<cite>Echgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>While I will leave this thread open for further discussion, the idea to allow an adventure class reset/change comes up every so often.  Grimwell posted about it <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=366561&post_id=4163917" target="_blank">here</a> and indicated:<blockquote>So I looked into the "Why can't we reset our adventure class back to 1?" question, because in the perspective of a dedicated tradeskiller who does not like their adv. class it's a very valid question. The answer is that there is no clean way to nuke an adventure class without risking the destruction of the character record. Adventure class is tied to sooooooo many different things, that it's essentially untouchable in terms of a class change. Tradeskill classes were much easier because they aren't tied to a lot of other things. So sorry guys, while it's interesting as an idea, and I can definitely see how the tradeskill population would benefit from it specifically, adventure class reset is just not on the table. </blockquote></blockquote><p>This is everquest. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>You could do a series of quests that end up bringing you to the final solution. One set of quests can teach you how to wear a different type of armor, while the next series of quest teaches you how to use a different style of fighting. I think though it would make more sense to stay within certain realms. If you fight with weapons, you can only change to a class that uses weapons. If you use spells or heal, you have to stay within those classes.</p>

MuliganVanJurai
01-14-2008, 05:57 PM
<p>Who would want to reset their class back to level one?  You might as well reroll at that point.  The whole idea is to allow people who have already invested time and energy into this game an opportunity to maintain a level of freshness and enjoyment.</p><p>Just imagine buying stock.  Regardless if your stock is going up or down you can decide whether or not to change/move your investment.  Sometimes people realize they do not enjoy their class or they have/meet new friends and they are looking for better make up of classes amongst themselves.  Instead of a group of people (or individual) cancelling their account and moving to another game, they can transfer their investment to something new.  Maybe it is just one time per character or every so often but, they idea of it being available to the player is a great gesture.</p><p>In a world of fantasy there shouldn't be so many limitations or dead ends.  This is a character which can obviously learn many abilities and if decided to betray learn completely new ones.  I do not see why they cannot learn how to play a new role within the game.  </p><p>I think it would actually help balance out the PvP servers.  I do not think everyone would roll rangers, furies, and brigands.  I believe you would be surprises, especially among the more dedicated guilds, groups of people attempting to form more balanced players.  I think you would see and increase of tanks and healers (which is needed) more than anything.</p><p>However, this is all my opinion and speculation.  I would remember you have a lot of MMO's and expansions hitting the shelves this year.   What would this really hurt?</p><p>Take care,</p><p>Muli</p>

Biaxil
01-14-2008, 06:14 PM
<p>YAY, more carebearness to the game please.  "I don't want to have to make another char, (cries) I already got to 80 but my class sux here, I don't want to do it all over again.  I'm too lazy. Whah whah whah whah."  What next?  You want to just start off the game at level 80, 140 AA, and 10,000 plat?</p>

Sightless
01-14-2008, 06:58 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>YAY, more carebearness to the game please.  "I don't want to have to make another char, (cries) I already got to 80 but my class sux here, I don't want to do it all over again.  I'm too lazy. Whah whah whah whah."  What next?  You want to just start off the game at level 80, 140 AA, and 10,000 plat?</p></blockquote><p>Lets see, I'm a father of four children, I work a job, actually multiple jobs. I also play a 76 Ranger, and a 65 Warlock, neither of which are underpowered classes, nor do they really suck like a Necromancer. I'd like to keep my Warlock, a Warlock, but would love to change my Ranger into a less desirable class like the Guardian, or possibly the Beserker. My Warlock will finish leveling to 80 along side my Ranger. I don't see how I'm lazy, rather I want to keep my real life is all.</p><p>You lose.</p><p>P.S. On Venekor it can be very, very hard to find a tank on the Qeynosian side, so the chance to change my Ranger to a Guardian for the benefit of the Venekor population, is ideal to me.</p>

Norrsken
01-14-2008, 07:06 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Who would want to reset their class back to level one?  You might as well reroll at that point.  The whole idea is to allow people who have already invested time and energy into this game an opportunity to maintain a level of freshness and enjoyment.</p><p>Just imagine buying stock.  Regardless if your stock is going up or down you can decide whether or not to change/move your investment.  Sometimes people realize they do not enjoy their class or they have/meet new friends and they are looking for better make up of classes amongst themselves.  Instead of a group of people (or individual) cancelling their account and moving to another game, they can transfer their investment to something new.  Maybe it is just one time per character or every so often but, they idea of it being available to the player is a great gesture.</p><p>In a world of fantasy there shouldn't be so many limitations or dead ends.  This is a character which can obviously learn many abilities and if decided to betray learn completely new ones.  I do not see why they cannot learn how to play a new role within the game.  </p><p>I think it would actually help balance out the PvP servers.  I do not think everyone would roll rangers, furies, and brigands.  I believe you would be surprises, especially among the more dedicated guilds, groups of people attempting to form more balanced players.  I think you would see and increase of tanks and healers (which is needed) more than anything.</p><p>However, this is all my opinion and speculation.  I would remember you have a lot of MMO's and expansions hitting the shelves this year.   What would this really hurt?</p><p>Take care,</p><p>Muli</p></blockquote>People with a high lvl TS and low lvl adventurer would.

firexcracker
01-14-2008, 07:16 PM
There are a lot of good and bad things that could possibly come out of this..  there are a lot of high level people that do not know how to play their class as it is, the thought of giving them an entirely new class with just a few quests makes me cringe..however, they do make a lot of changes to classes that upset a lot of people.  I've leveled 4 characters up to 70 before RoK came out and each one I quit playing for one reason or another.  If I had the opportunity to change their class, even to something else of the same archetype, I would have done it for each one and continued to play.As to all the people who say "omgz just /reroll" ... it's not that simple for everyone.  Just because you have 40 hours or more a week to play doesn't mean everyone does - I put a LOT of time and effort into leveling 4 chars to 70 and that's the reason I quit the game.  I wanted to play more but just did not have the heart to go through the entire thing again.  I have other things to do.

MuliganVanJurai
01-14-2008, 07:34 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>YAY, more carebearness to the game please.  "I don't want to have to make another char, (cries) I already got to 80 but my class sux here, I don't want to do it all over again.  I'm too lazy. Whah whah whah whah."  What next?  You want to just start off the game at level 80, 140 AA, and 10,000 plat?</p></blockquote><p>For one, I'm a 77 ranger (should be 78 tonight) have some other high level characters on another account.  I do not want to add any carebearness to the game and I even feel this (if considered) should come with some time and sacrifice involved.</p><p>You really should begin thinking about what makes a game last.  There would be nothing wrong with someone deciding they would like to play another class.  Just like there isn't anything wrong for them to chose another side.  It would benefit everyone, guilds, groups, and even the individual to have this option available.</p><p>I just do not see how your post is relevant to the request but you have your opinion and that's fine.  I do not want an easy game by any means.  I despise WoW and a couple of other games for catering to the player to the extent it handicaps the game.  However, there should be flexibility in what you can do with your character and how you chose to develop him/her.  I do not like the idea of a "dead end", get frustrated, bored, and move on.  I would rather see others have the opportunity to enjoy their character without starting all over.</p><p>Take care,</p><p>Muli</p>

Nefania
01-14-2008, 10:32 PM
Whatever you guys may want, this really has been brought up time and again.  If you read what was posted, the devs have clearly said it's not possible.  Arguing that <i>you</i> think there is a way to do it doesn't really have a lot of merit if those who make the game have just told you that it's not technically feasible.As to the idea itself, sure maybe I'd love to turn my high level necro into a defiler instead of working to level up my new healer.  But that's not what I earned, and it wouldn't be fair to those who did the work to level up a class like that.  I'm busy with real life too, and I've accepted the limitations that come with that.

Biaxil
01-14-2008, 11:38 PM
<cite>Sightless wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>YAY, more carebearness to the game please.  "I don't want to have to make another char, (cries) I already got to 80 but my class sux here, I don't want to do it all over again.  I'm too lazy. Whah whah whah whah."  What next?  You want to just start off the game at level 80, 140 AA, and 10,000 plat?</p></blockquote><p>Lets see, I'm a father of four children, I work a job, actually multiple jobs. I also play a 76 Ranger, and a 65 Warlock, neither of which are underpowered classes, nor do they really suck like a Necromancer. I'd like to keep my Warlock, a Warlock, but would love to change my Ranger into a less desirable class like the Guardian, or possibly the Beserker. My Warlock will finish leveling to 80 along side my Ranger. I don't see how I'm lazy, rather I want to keep my real life is all.</p><p>You lose.</p><p>P.S. On Venekor it can be very, very hard to find a tank on the Qeynosian side, so the chance to change my Ranger to a Guardian for the benefit of the Venekor population, is ideal to me.</p></blockquote><p>Look guy, we all have 24 hrs in a day.  How we spend them is our indivual business. I don't care what you do with your day, but to water the game down to fit your needs is just sad.  We should dumb down the game to fit your lifestyle?  Wow are you a selfish person.  </p><p>Its like saying your a mailman, but you don't like your job anymore so now you want to be a doctor.  Being that you have 15 years "experience" as a mailman, hey that should equal 15 years worth of being a doctor.  The answer is NO.  </p>

Sightless
01-15-2008, 03:47 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sightless wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>YAY, more carebearness to the game please.  "I don't want to have to make another char, (cries) I already got to 80 but my class sux here, I don't want to do it all over again.  I'm too lazy. Whah whah whah whah."  What next?  You want to just start off the game at level 80, 140 AA, and 10,000 plat?</p></blockquote><p>Lets see, I'm a father of four children, I work a job, actually multiple jobs. I also play a 76 Ranger, and a 65 Warlock, neither of which are underpowered classes, nor do they really suck like a Necromancer. I'd like to keep my Warlock, a Warlock, but would love to change my Ranger into a less desirable class like the Guardian, or possibly the Beserker. My Warlock will finish leveling to 80 along side my Ranger. I don't see how I'm lazy, rather I want to keep my real life is all.</p><p>You lose.</p><p>P.S. On Venekor it can be very, very hard to find a tank on the Qeynosian side, so the chance to change my Ranger to a Guardian for the benefit of the Venekor population, is ideal to me.</p></blockquote><p>Look guy, we all have 24 hrs in a day.  How we spend them is our indivual business. I don't care what you do with your day, but to water the game down to fit your needs is just sad.  We should dumb down the game to fit your lifestyle?  Wow are you a selfish person.  </p><p>Its like saying your a mailman, but you don't like your job anymore so now you want to be a doctor.  Being that you have 15 years "experience" as a mailman, hey that should equal 15 years worth of being a doctor.  The answer is NO.  </p></blockquote><p>It has nothing to do with dumbing the game down, and you're trying to apply real life careers to game careers? Seriously? You're comparing apples to oranges when you're talking mailman vs doctor. One requires a major degree, the other one doesn't. There is no equal to a brain surgeon, or surgeon in general. But any surgeon has the schooling, and knowledge to become virtually anything else they wanted to be. I have to laugh at your comparison, or I might go nuts.</p><p>Lets use more sports, or martial arts as a comparison shall we? Someone trained and specialized in Kaju Kenpo Karate wouldn't have a much easier time learning Tai Chi. Or say a college sprinter becoming a football player? A football player becoming a basketball player? Various athletes and martial artist cross train all the time in other fields. A person training with a rapier, could easily learn the broad sword.</p><p>It doesn't dumb the game down, not in the least bit. If you could show me some logical reasoning as to how it would dumb the game down instead of unreasonable banter and attacks, I'd likely agree with you. Already you can go good to evil, or evil to good and switch your profession. Ranger to Assassin, et cetera. This would allow you to change your profession, and stay with your friends, and family. </p><p>You can somewhat change your class now, switching say from Warlock to Wizard, or Guardian to Beserker with neutral classes both sides can choose. Why not extend this to good and evil classes being able to choose a neutral profession, like Ranger to Guardian or Beserker?</p><p>I've played the hardest PvP classes in EQ1, and Dark Age of Camelot, don't try to pretend you know what PvP is better than anyone else. Let alone try to insult people and make them feel like they're wanting carebare.</p>

MuliganVanJurai
01-15-2008, 11:37 AM
<p>I don't buy the technically impossible standpoint simply because of the similarities of betraying.  I've been involved in programming and the industry long enough to eyeball the correlations of the two.</p><p>Regardless, it doesn't look like something that will ever be implemented.  However, I can really see the benefit of having this opportunity.  </p><p>"A person training with a rapier, could easily learn the broad sword."</p><p>This is the point I have been trying to make.  I don't see how people could think making this available would be dumbing down the game or adding carebearness.  Every race can be any class anyway (with the exception of good/evil only classes) so what's the big deal?</p><p>Take care,</p><p>Muli</p>