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View Full Version : Potions Ruin pvp, remove some of them.


caliburns
01-10-2008, 07:24 AM
<p>Ok, this is About how Unfair potions are towards casters</p><p>We have no defence, what we do get is roots stuns and fear, yet you can craft a level 30 potion, an easy craft that uses no rares, one cured fear and root also lessens snare effect(effect lasts for 30 secs), the other stuns and stifles.....</p><p>That is unfair simply because you just negated the one thing casters had to keep at range....</p><p>there are potions to ward for 1 hour vs 2k spell damage of a given type, now how unfair is that! where is the melee ward potions?</p><p>Why do spell casters have to get potions that ward there damage? are we not screwed over enough?</p><p>i could go on witht his, but my point is some potions are way unfair and overpowered for the pvp servers, make them harder to craft so they actually cost some thing to craft or remove the pvp effect from them.</p>

Elephanton
01-10-2008, 08:11 AM
<p>Agree, this issue has been brought up multiple times already.</p><p>IMO potions need to be removed from PVP, that would resolve many issues for all mage classes.Mages are fine, potions are not, even though they are once every 15 mins only.</p><p><b>Right now potions a very unbalanced imo, and give non-mage classes an edge against mage classes.At the same time, there are no potions that mages can benefit from.</b></p><p>I think everyone agrees that in order to win, ANY mage need to be able to apply its primary CC ability successfully.Sorcs = root, Necro = fear, Conj = snare, chanters = stifleNot talking about getting these to land once in 5 tries, as soon as they finally land, they can be dispelled easily by a potion, which basically gives immunity to this CC until the end of fight.</p><p>On the other hand, you know there are no potion for mages to be able to absorb all damage for 10 sec... and this is really the only thing which can save a mage from a scout once scout uses Freedom potion... any mage would die really fast after that.</p><p>I think mages in PVP are already balanced well enough by those resists... I mean, come on... no need to give people ability to remove something which is so essential to mages, and lands only once in a few tries to begin with...</p>

Elephanton
01-10-2008, 08:16 AM
<p>Just one small correction, what I said above probably applies less to sorcerors due to having chain mitigation and clearly overpowered manashield. As of their current state, they really don't need to bother rooting their targets...</p><p>All of the above applies to all other squishy clothies without manashield.All those would be dead 2-3 sec after "freedom" potion is used. Especially now with that T8 autoattack.</p>

caliburns
01-10-2008, 08:47 AM
<cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Just one small correction, what I said above probably applies less to sorcerors due to having chain mitigation and clearly overpowered manashield. As of their current state, they really don't need to bother rooting their targets...</p><p>All of the above applies to all other squishy clothies without manashield.All those would be dead 2-3 sec after "freedom" potion is used. Especially now with that T8 autoattack.</p></blockquote><p>>Just one small correction, what I said above probably applies less to sorcerers due to having chain mitigation and clearly overpowered manashield. As of their current state, they really don't need to bother rooting their targets<</p><p>You seriously didn't just say sorcerers have chain mail mitigation, and that manna shield is so overpowered they don't need to snare? </p><p>Have you even played a sorcerer?   </p><p>1: sorcerers while being able to spec defensively do no even come close to chain mail like armor</p><p>2: manna shield is one of the most balanced defensive spells in the game at level 50+, its easy to negate all effect pass through the shield also and it can be dispel.  Crusaders and some healers get a 10 sec Immune to all damage with no cost what so ever /looks at a Shadowknight, they also get heals..... large heals.. and an instant death nuke.</p><p>If you can't figure out how to bypass mannashield by the time you are level 50..... hand your head in shame</p><p>and as for not needing root.... we die in 4 sec flat to a scout class or any one with DPS, manna shield gives us 4 sec longer life.</p>

Dh
01-10-2008, 11:44 AM
<cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Agree, this issue has been brought up multiple times already.</p><p>IMO potions need to be removed from PVP, that would resolve many issues for all mage classes.Mages are fine, potions are not, even though they are once every 15 mins only.</p><p><b>Right now potions a very unbalanced imo, and give non-mage classes an edge against mage classes.At the same time, there are no potions that mages can benefit from.</b></p><p>I think everyone agrees that in order to win, ANY mage need to be able to apply its primary CC ability successfully.Sorcs = root, Necro = fear, Conj = snare, chanters = stifleNot talking about getting these to land once in 5 tries, as soon as they finally land, they can be dispelled easily by a potion, which basically gives immunity to this CC until the end of fight.</p><p>On the other hand, you know there are no potion for mages to be able to absorb all damage for 10 sec... and this is really the only thing which can save a mage from a scout once scout uses Freedom potion... any mage would die really fast after that.</p><p>I think mages in PVP are already balanced well enough by those resists... I mean, come on... no need to give people ability to remove something which is so essential to mages, and lands only once in a few tries to begin with...</p></blockquote><p>You really don't understand mage classes do you? No clothy has anything near chain mitagation. Everyone knows chain is about the same as plate. So... are you really trying to say clothy get plate armor mitagation? </p><p>Sorcerers get LONG cast times (warlock way worst than wizard) which get interrupted more than other mage classes so they get manashield to help out.</p><p>Non-Sorcerers get FAST cast times! and better control abilities like  mezzes, fears, charms, long stifles, long stuns, taunting pets, stoneskins, spell reflects, betters snares.</p><p> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</p><p>Cure Potions and immune to root & stun/stifle are NOT overpowered and fair IMO. Imagine fighting a brigand if you didn't have immune to stun potion and cure trauma/arcane potion to cure his roots and snares, NOT GONNA HAPPEN.</p><p><span style="font-size: x-small;"><b>If you wanna bash anything, bash pumice stone because it demolishes all mages/priests but does nothing to rogues/predators/fighters</b></span></p>

Elephanton
01-10-2008, 11:55 AM
<p>To both posters above:I have many alts including warlock and ranger. And my warlock has more mitigation, than my ranger who is wearing nice chain armor.And it's not that ranger is wearing trash, he has good city PVP merchants gear mostly, which gets him to about 40% miti, while warlock is around 45%</p><p>Please don't argue about something that you have no idea about.</p>

Elephanton
01-10-2008, 11:59 AM
<p>Here's my fellow's warlock, I happened to have his stats screeny handy<a href="http://img73.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pic51nw9.jpg" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://img73.imageshack.us/my.php?i...ge=pic51nw9.jpg</a></p>

Elephanton
01-10-2008, 12:04 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite> <blockquote><p>Sorcerers get LONG cast times (warlock way worst than wizard) which get interrupted more than other mage classes so they get manashield to help out.</p></blockquote><p>Yeah sure, warlock is way worst than wizard, because we all know warlocks do not get Focused CastingWhich in turn as we all aware does not give total <span style="color: #ffff00;">interrupt immunity</span>, and does not <span style="color: #ffff00;">decrease casting timers </span>severely<span style="color: #ffff00;">Please learn the game before coming here and posting stupid things.And please do not derail the conversation</span><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>You really don't understand mage classes do you? </blockquote>One thing I can say for sure, I understand them much better than you, pal.I have both sorc, summoner and chanter.

Siphar
01-10-2008, 12:08 PM
<p>You do realise the re-cast time of these potions right? Cure effects are like 10 seconds and the freedom potions (immune to stun/stifle and cure root/reduce snare) are on a 15 minute recast!</p><p>e.g. You can also think about rooting/snaring someone twice? a short duration (omg how many items snare/root?) which is cured via potion followed by your main root?</p><p><b>I find it hilarious the amount of people that PvP completely un-prepared</b>. By un-prepared I mean not all Adp3, who don't have a full set of cures/remedies and who do not know every other possible classes defining abilities.</p><p>What takes the biscuit is when they come here and complain!</p><p>These same mages that complain about other clases using potions get abilitiles like null mail and/or manashield. 5 sec stuns/stifles etc etc and to boot they can use all teh same potions/remedies etc, most just choose not to and those that do actually do well! Zomg-OMG-FFS-LOLZ</p><p>btw: you can also <b>/invite</b> as well you know. That's what I do when I can't achieve something my class isn't designed to do.</p><p>/yawn</p>

Elephanton
01-10-2008, 12:13 PM
<cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>You do realise the re-cast time of these potions right? Cure effects are like 10 seconds and the freedom potions (immune to stun/stifle and cure root/reduce snare) are on a 15 minute recast!</p><p><span style="color: #ffff00;">e.g. You can also think about rooting/snaring someone twice? a short duration (omg how many items snare/root?) which is cured via potion followed by your main root?</span></p></blockquote><p>Wow, I did not expect this level of game mechanics knowledge from you, Siphar.I thought you knew the game very well...</p><p>Anyway, FYI this would not work in PVP due to immunities. After the first root lands, target gets immunity to 2x of max root duration (no matter of how much time it actually "worked" before it was cured). And after the root is dispelled, EVERY clothy except sorcerors die in 2-3 sec as it stands right now in T8. So even with some hypothetical super-short "initial" root, you don't have those 10 seconds to wait for "initial" root immunity to go off.</p>

Dh
01-10-2008, 12:18 PM
<cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite> <blockquote><p>Sorcerers get LONG cast times (warlock way worst than wizard) which get interrupted more than other mage classes so they get manashield to help out.</p></blockquote><p>Yeah sure, warlock is way worst than wizard, because we all know warlocks do not get Focused CastingWhich in turn as we all aware does not give total <span style="color: #ffff00;">interrupt immunity</span>, and does not <span style="color: #ffff00;">decrease casting timers </span>severely<span style="color: #ffff00;">Please learn the game before coming here and posting stupid things.And please do not derail the conversation</span><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>You really don't understand mage classes do you? </blockquote>One thing I can say for sure, I understand them much better than you, pal.I have both sorc, summoner and the chanter.</blockquote><p>You do realize that I have a 80 wizard that was a warlock for a long long long time right? Pumice stone removes focused casting EVERY time, or simply stun/knockback and run it off since the warlock is rooted once he hits it. The warlock is then stuck casting for 3-5 seconds for all of his spells.</p><p><img src="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/signature?characterId=749918120&locale=en_US" border="0" alt="" width="490" height="163" /> </p><p>I also have a master assassin</p><p><img src="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/signature?characterId=536039121&locale=en_US" border="0" alt="" width="490" height="163" /></p><p>sold my master 70 swash on vox long time ago.</p><p>I fought all of these different mages successfully on different classes. I think I know how casters work a little better than you, pal.</p>

Elephanton
01-10-2008, 12:22 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>So... really I think I know how casters work a little better than you, pal.</p></blockquote>Well, sorry to say, but I believe I just proved it wrong then. See above ^^^

BWLeeEllison
01-10-2008, 12:28 PM
<cite>caliburns wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Ok, This whine is geared towards how unfait potions are to casters.</p><p>We have no defence, what we do get is roots stuns and fear, yet you can craft a level 30 potion, an easy craft that uses no rares, one cured fear and root also lessens snare effect(effect lasts for 30 secs), the other stuns and stifles.....</p><p>That is [I cannot control my vocabulary] simply because you just negated the one thing casters had to keep at range....</p><p>there are potions to ward for 1 hour vs 2k spell damage of a given type, now how unfair is that! where is the melee ward potions?</p><p>Why do spell casters have to get potions that ward there damage? are we not faked over enough?</p><p>i could go on witht his, but my point is some potions are way unfair and overpowered for the pvp servers, make them harder to craft so they actually cost some thing to craft or remove the pvp effect from them.</p></blockquote><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">It isn't bad enough people are constantly attacking the archetype I chose for my main (scout ala swash), so now people have to go after my crafting class (80 alchemist) too?  Have you given any thought to actually using potions to your benefit?</span></b>

Elephanton
01-10-2008, 12:36 PM
<p>What I would like is this:</p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><b>A potion that I could use on my squishy-type clothies to counter scout using Freedom potion to dispel my CC spell.</b></span>Would you agree this would be fair? It should also have 15 min recast time.</p><p>(I am not sure what should this portion do, probably something like Illusionist's 65 Phase spell would work, or detaunt with inability to target me for short time, or very short super-snare on my target, or something else. Something that could save my [I cannot control my vocabulary] for a few seconds, because after primary CC is dispelled, it takes 1 CA and 2-3 hits of T8 autoattack to kill non-sorc clothy - naturally).</p>

Dh
01-10-2008, 12:41 PM
<cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Here's my fellow's warlock, I happened to have his stats screeny handy<a rel="nofollow" href="http://img73.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pic51nw9.jpg" target="_blank">http://img73.imageshack.us/my.php?i...ge=pic51nw9.jpg</a></p></blockquote><p>This is only achieved by having the 3 piece set bonus on the fabled level 70 pvp armor. If you ranger had 3 fabled peices, you would have more mitagation. The ranger also gets to snare/stun/root on the run while the warlock has to stand still, take the beating and get interrupted while trying to root someone to back off. </p><p>The big picture is potions are fine... learn to use them urself and stop complaining about the wrong stuff. I don't understand, you were complaining about people curing your roots then went on to complain about your warlock saying his manashield is overpowered? Ok I agree to disagree on both subjects.</p>

MaCloud1032
01-10-2008, 12:53 PM
<cite>caliburns wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Have you even played a sorcerer?   </p><p>1: sorcerers while being able to spec defensively do no even come close to chain mail like armor</p><p>2: manna shield is one of the most balanced defensive spells in the game at level 50+, its easy to negate all effect pass through the shield also and it can be dispel.  Crusaders and some healers get a 10 sec Immune to all damage with no cost what so ever /looks at a Shadowknight, they also get heals..... large heals.. and an instant death nuke.</p><p>If you can't figure out how to bypass mannashield by the time you are level 50..... hand your head in shame</p><p>and as for not needing root.... we die in 4 sec flat to a scout class or any one with DPS, manna shield gives us 4 sec longer life.</p></blockquote>Ill agree that manashield is very nice for sorcerers.  In T7 manashield was very ballanced in T8 not so much.  Its close ill give them that.  In T7 if a caster popped mana shield it was always a very close fight.  In T8 they just hand me my [Removed for Content].  I mean its not even close after they pop it.  As a SK i dont ahve the stuns or interupts to stop you all i have is a flat burn.  I have a hard time running thru 20k+ hp.  To then get hit with a 7k fisson and a 5k ice bolt.  The amountof dmg a mage can put out i totaly agree with andihave no problems with personaly should be a bit more.To correct you as a SK i do not have "heals" i have life taps.  If my seplls dont land or i cant cast i get no "heal."We dont have "large" heals our largest taps is aobut 1300-1500.  My "instant death nuke" Is resisted abo0ud 2 outof 3 or 4 times.  Many times my other nukes do more dmg than my Death Touch.  With divin aura up any dmg that is over halfof mytotal HP sill goes thru to my health.  The cost of going down my STA line as a SK it get divin aura is the rest of the line does very little for me in terms of gaining dps or anything other than total health.

Elephanton
01-10-2008, 12:59 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>This is only achieved by having the 3 piece set bonus on the fabled level 70 pvp armor. <p>The big picture is potions are fine... </p></blockquote><p>No, he does not raid and he did not have EOF epic set at the time when this screeny was made for sure.He had some KOS gear pieces only.</p><p>And I disagree with you, I think the bigger picture with potion is not well-thought.As it stands right now, potions give melee classes and edge against mages. See my first post.IMO mages need all the help they could get right now (esp. summoners) - I think everyone would agree on this.</p><p>Guys, lets not derail this discussion to manashield overpoweredness/not discussion, we have plenty of topics going about this.</p>

Dh
01-10-2008, 01:43 PM
<p>I think the potions are needed. I use them on all of my chars to cure stuff. </p><p>As I was saying, PUMICE STONES  should be your enemy if you think cure potions are bad. They ruin mages and priests but do nothing to rogues/predators/fighters.</p><p>It isn't fair that once you cure a root, you are immune for twice the length that the root was suppose to stay (usually 20secondsX2= 40 seconds) or so. They could fix this by lowering the duration of roots in pvp since they never stick longer than 5 seconds anyway.</p>

FinalOrder
01-10-2008, 02:16 PM
<p>Only mage classes that needs help are the summoner's. The rest of you who are complaining need to think harder on how to overcome obstacles instead of complain about them. You should buy youself some of those potions that you are mentionoing... I bet, if you get fight a scout, and you drink an immunity to stun potion, then wait for his debuffs (rogues and bards debuff first usually, then lay the damage) and then cure the debuffs, holy crap, your mitigation didnt drop down to 0 because you actually cured your debuff instead of focusing on pure DPS. </p><p>After all this time, you think people would realise that PvP is not about DPS, it is about survability. Spec your AA line to be more defensive, use potions ALSO, buy totems and status / pvp clickables to be used in combat, sacrifice power and int gear for sta and health / resist gear. Use your own debuffs and your environment to your advantage. Getting shot from a Ranger? Look for an object to hide behind. Most players arent patient enough to wait for you, most players wont walk away from a potential kill.</p><p>You think other classes have it any easier? Everyone uses potions, everyone wants more from them, but we all deal with it and use other means of equipment, spells, combat arts, clickables, environment, classes, ally's, and skill to get around disadvantages. </p><p>Actually, I could have just summed it all up with L2P..</p><p>RottkNagafen</p>

-Arctura-
01-10-2008, 02:48 PM
(( Potions have their role in game and are fine.If you dont like them, try using them! You will love 'em <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Theres even manapool-boosting potions, and Spell-crit boosting ones too! Lots of possibilities for wizards!You guys get manashield which pretty much makes you immune to melee, which is the bread-and-butter of melee classes....so why shouldnt we get a potion that wards 1000 points of elemental damage? or can cure the root that you guys say you rely on so much... even when we cure it, theres still manashield as most wizards are spec'd =P And Pumice stones get resisted more than half the time anyways =PNot complaining, just producing some counter-points.

Amphibia
01-10-2008, 03:01 PM
To the OP: If you play a mage and get stunned by a brigand, good luck to you if you don't have an instant cast anti-stun pot available. It will be over in less than 5 seconds. Careful what you wish for....

Aerlyn
01-10-2008, 04:19 PM
<cite>BWLeeEllison wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><b><span style="font-size: small;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;color: #0099ff;">It isn't bad enough people are constantly attacking the archetype I chose for my main (scout ala swash), so now people have to go after my crafting class (80 alchemist) too?  Have you given any thought to actually using potions to your benefit?</span></b></blockquote>Well, from reading the first few posts, it sounds like people are more than willing to also use potions for their own benefit, but there aren't any comparable potions, such as a potion to ward against a particular type of melee damage similar to how there are portions to ward against a particular type of casting damage.

Sightless
01-10-2008, 04:55 PM
<p>Elephant and OP</p><p>You guys do realize if they remove stun/stifle potions you'll become easy fodder for scouts right? Assassins will stifle you, and you'll never cast once, Brigands will stun you, and you'll never cast once, and Bards I believe also get a very long stifle. Do you really want to be rendered THAT weak? Seriously?</p>

Sightless
01-10-2008, 04:57 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>BWLeeEllison wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">It isn't bad enough people are constantly attacking the archetype I chose for my main (scout ala swash), so now people have to go after my crafting class (80 alchemist) too?  Have you given any thought to actually using potions to your benefit?</span></b></blockquote>Well, from reading the first few posts, it sounds like people are more than willing to also use potions for their own benefit, but there aren't any comparable potions, such as a potion to ward against a particular type of melee damage similar to how there are portions to ward against a particular type of casting damage.</blockquote>They are called heal potions. They heal 400-600 damage in PvP. You can also carry Overclocked Boots which heal another 10% of your health. Not to mention other healing clickables I'm not mentioning. I'm tired of telling people what's in the game. And that ward, ward's far less in PvP, hit the little box and find out people. Those Wards are also situational, they'll put you into combat if you have them up all the time, and you can only use one at a time.

BWLeeEllison
01-10-2008, 05:55 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>BWLeeEllison wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">It isn't bad enough people are constantly attacking the archetype I chose for my main (scout ala swash), so now people have to go after my crafting class (80 alchemist) too?  Have you given any thought to actually using potions to your benefit?</span></b></blockquote>Well, from reading the first few posts, it sounds like people are more than willing to also use potions for their own benefit, but there aren't any comparable potions, such as a potion to ward against a particular type of melee damage similar to how there are portions to ward against a particular type of casting damage.</blockquote><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">And yet there are potions that heal over time and quick heal, and various other things.  Power boost, health boost, stat boost etc</span></b>

Urgol
01-10-2008, 06:56 PM
A warlock on my server had 3,8k+ miti in eof (with proc ofc, that was permanently up tho). My brigand alt in defencive stance had about 100 miti more back in the day, being geared in some kos/eof epic chain armor.

Siphar
01-10-2008, 07:44 PM
<cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>You do realise the re-cast time of these potions right? Cure effects are like 10 seconds and the freedom potions (immune to stun/stifle and cure root/reduce snare) are on a 15 minute recast!</p><p><span style="color: #ffff00;">e.g. You can also think about rooting/snaring someone twice? a short duration (omg how many items snare/root?) which is cured via potion followed by your main root?</span></p></blockquote><p>Wow, I did not expect this level of game mechanics knowledge from you, Siphar.I thought you knew the game very well...</p><p>Anyway, FYI this would not work in PVP due to immunities. After the first root lands, target gets immunity to 2x of max root duration (no matter of how much time it actually "worked" before it was cured). And after the root is dispelled, EVERY clothy except sorcerors die in 2-3 sec as it stands right now in T8. So even with some hypothetical super-short "initial" root, you don't have those 10 seconds to wait for "initial" root immunity to go off.</p></blockquote><p>I did take into account the immunities but perhaps did not emphasis them enough.</p><p>I have done this on my warden a few times. The instant root followed by a snare straight after they cured it. They then could not cure the snare (even partially). The same is possible [Removed for Content] mages, especially with MS. The T4? snare item or the bag of marbles (from castle) or even the snot from tinkered gear have been used on me, I've cured it only to be rooted! by their main root.</p><p>The snare and root are on different immunites and they do stack .. </p>

Marcula
01-10-2008, 07:44 PM
<blockquote>To correct you as a SK i do not have "heals" i have life taps.  If my seplls dont land or i cant cast i get no "heal."We dont have "large" heals our largest taps is aobut 1300-1500.  My "instant death nuke" Is resisted abo0ud 2 outof 3 or 4 times.  Many times my other nukes do more dmg than my Death Touch.  With divin aura up any dmg that is over halfof mytotal HP sill goes thru to my health.  The cost of going down my STA line as a SK it get divin aura is the rest of the line does very little for me in terms of gaining dps or anything other than total health.</blockquote><p><span style="color: #00ccff;">The last Shadow Knight I fought was fun. I was kicking his [I cannot control my vocabulary] all the way Sunday until all of a sudden I was insta dead. He hit me with his Deathly touch (can't remember the name exactly) for 3850 and healed himself for 2800. I was beating on him so badly that I had not bothered with my mana shield haa ha......sigh.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ccff;">However, if I had had it manashield up I would have been hurting for mana but probably would have dirt napped him. </span></p><p><span style="color: #00ccff;">I would fight you Darksavanna but you always roll in a group and well......I don't.</span></p>

Radigazt
01-11-2008, 06:56 AM
<p>I do think that potions and certain items can really skew the PvP playing field in favor of mele types, but disabling potions entirely sounds harsh to Alchemists.  Perhaps a better solution would be to put all the potions on the same timer, at least on the PvP servers.  So, if someone uses an immunity to root potion, they get 10 seconds of root immunity and cannot cast it for 15 minutes ... but they  have to choose because during that 15 minutes they cannot also get immunity to stifle and a healing potion etc.  That way people would have to choose their potion and there would be a tradeoff.  As it is, spend more money and get immunity to many things plus stats plus healing etc., and that may be where the problem lies.  </p><p>It doesn't address the item problem, but I think it would go a long way to helping non-mele classes.  Because let's be honest, mele classes dominate in T6-T8, particularly rogues and predators.  </p>

Shadow_Viper
01-11-2008, 07:24 AM
<p>For those of you that think potions are overpowered and need nerfed. I highly encourage you all to carefully read through the first post in this thread. It should be very helpful! <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=367158" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Helpful Thread</a></p>

Psych
01-11-2008, 08:26 AM
joe and kate can roll 2 shadowknights and 1 shot me all day.i cant stifle for more than 8 seconds and the opponent gains immunity afterwards

-Arctura-
01-11-2008, 10:36 AM
(( my FAVE part of the Welcome to the JUngle thread:<i></i><span class="postbody"><i> Filling up boards with complaints that "X class can do this and I can't and so-and-so ganked me when I was fighting and I was 10 levels lower than him and I can't go anywhere without being bind-camped  and SOE needs to FIX THIS IMMEDIATELY" doesn't help anyone- it only buries legitimate issues like bugs and exploits under mountains of whining by people who can't seem to understand that they are just not that good at the game. </i>HAHAHA <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />whoever wrote that was funniez <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> (and right <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span>

Elephanton
01-11-2008, 11:23 AM
<p><span style="font-size: small;">IMO there should not be "I WIN" buttons in the game.And </span><span style="font-size: small;">CC Immunity potion is an "I WIN" button for melee classes against mages.Essentially free kill every 15 mins.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;">I ask that either these immunity potions are removed from the game, or clothies are given a new potion that would allow them to survive those 10 sec of CC immunity from their enemy. As it stand right now in T8, no mage except sorcs can survive more than 2-3 sec of CC immune scout rushing on you and beating you.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;">Something like 100% parry effect that only clothies can use... and make it so that effect of this potion brakes if I cast any spell, so that this potion does not imbalance the game... i.e. make it similar to last predator's KOS STA achievement.</span></p>

BWLeeEllison
01-11-2008, 12:43 PM
<cite>Shadow_Viper wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>For those of you that think potions are overpowered and need nerfed. I highly encourage you all to carefully read through the first post in this thread. It should be very helpful! <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=367158" target="_blank">Helpful Thread</a></p></blockquote><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">Touche` <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></span></b>

Shadow_Viper
01-12-2008, 03:17 AM
Potions to not need nerfed or removed. I do like the ideas of new types of potions being added.

Shadow_Viper
01-12-2008, 03:20 AM
<cite>-Arctura- wrote:</cite><blockquote>(( my FAVE part of the Welcome to the JUngle thread:<i></i><span class="postbody"><i>Filling up boards with complaints that "X class can do this and I can't and so-and-so ganked me when I was fighting and I was 10 levels lower than him and I can't go anywhere without being bind-camped  and SOE needs to FIX THIS IMMEDIATELY" doesn't help anyone- it only buries legitimate issues like bugs and exploits under mountains of whining by people who can't seem to understand that they are just not that good at the game. </i>HAHAHA <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" />whoever wrote that was funniez <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /> (and right <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></span></blockquote>Aye, funny and wise <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

Psych
01-12-2008, 07:00 AM
<cite>Shadow_Viper wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>-Arctura- wrote:</cite><blockquote>(( my FAVE part of the Welcome to the JUngle thread:<i></i><span class="postbody"><i>Filling up boards with complaints that "X class can do this and I can't and so-and-so ganked me when I was fighting and I was 10 levels lower than him and I can't go anywhere without being bind-camped  and SOE needs to FIX THIS IMMEDIATELY" doesn't help anyone- it only buries legitimate issues like bugs and exploits under mountains of whining by people who can't seem to understand that they are just not that good at the game. </i>HAHAHA <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" width="15" height="15" />whoever wrote that was funniez <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" width="15" height="15" /> (and right <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" width="15" height="15" /></span></blockquote>Aye, funny and wise <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote><span class="postbody"><i>"X class can do this and I can't and so-and-so ganked me when I was fighting and I was 10 levels lower than him and I can't go anywhere without being bind-camped  and SOE needs to FIX THIS IMMEDIATELY"Oh...look...nobody has said that...neatWhat someone has said is that there is clearly a legitimate issue with the usefulness of potions when compared to what a melee class gains from using it as compared to what a mage class gains from using it. But hey its cool to quote things that dont have any relation to the current post just because you want to try and discredit it to keep your class on top right? Honestly...its a game dont take it so seriously. The devs are just gonna do what they see fit so why argue against other peoples ideas instead of just letting the devs clearly read it without all the "I dissagree!" bickering?Oh, and quoting the post about how unnecessary whines clutter the boards...well you basically did exactly that by clutting a legit post with a quote thats only purpose was to....what? Did it point out in any way specifically how potions are fair currently? Did it make a respectable counter point to the OP's suggestions? Whats that? No? it didnt do anything constructive or useful? Its the literal definition of a 'troll post'? Oh. Right.If you want to make a post about how cool you all think the write of the jungle sticky is then please do that and /notworthy all you want but doing it in every other post you dissagree with is nothing but under-the-bridge trolling.Why not read the thread and post something constructive?In closing, the game isnt perfect and especially after a fresh expansion things need balanced as theyre tested and played through by the players. Telling people to not post when they think something is wrong and only speak up over big sploits/bugs would overall make the devs job a lot harder and is really a bad view to have as a member of an mmo forum and I'm pretty sure players trying to get their voice heard dont appreciate it cluttering the threads they are trying to get taken seriously.</i></span>

Shadow_Viper
01-12-2008, 09:14 AM
<cite>Psych wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shadow_Viper wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>-Arctura- wrote:</cite><blockquote>(( my FAVE part of the Welcome to the JUngle thread:<i></i><span class="postbody"><i>Filling up boards with complaints that "X class can do this and I can't and so-and-so ganked me when I was fighting and I was 10 levels lower than him and I can't go anywhere without being bind-camped  and SOE needs to FIX THIS IMMEDIATELY" doesn't help anyone- it only buries legitimate issues like bugs and exploits under mountains of whining by people who can't seem to understand that they are just not that good at the game. </i>HAHAHA <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15" />whoever wrote that was funniez <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15" /> (and right <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15" /></span></blockquote>Aye, funny and wise <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote><p><span class="postbody"><i>"X class can do this and I can't and so-and-so ganked me when I was fighting and I was 10 levels lower than him and I can't go anywhere without being bind-camped  and SOE needs to FIX THIS IMMEDIATELY"Oh...look...nobody has said that...neat</i> <b><span style="color: #009900;">The point still remains the same, people are still trying to say something is unbalanced that isn't.</span></b><i>What someone has said is that there is clearly a legitimate issue with the usefulness of potions when compared to what a melee class gains from using it as compared to what a mage class gains from using it.</i> <span style="color: #009900;"><b>Nope, what someone has said is they don't like their roots being defeated by potions, which doesn't allow them to just sit back and nuke. </b></span></span></p><p><span class="postbody"><i>But hey its cool to quote things that dont have any relation to the current post just because you want to try and discredit it to keep your class on top right? Honestly...its a game dont take it so seriously. The devs are just gonna do what they see fit so why argue against other peoples ideas instead of just letting the devs clearly read it without all the "I dissagree!" bickering?</i><span style="color: #009900;"><b> So it's okay for people to give their opinion that something is unbalanced and overpowered, But other people can't give their opinions that those things are fine as is? </b></span><i>Oh, and quoting the post about how unnecessary whines clutter the boards...well you basically did exactly that by clutting a legit post with a quote thats only purpose was to....what? Did it point out in any way specifically how potions are fair currently? Did it make a respectable counter point to the OP's suggestions? </i><span style="color: #009900;"><b>Again, a "legit" post that is accusing something of being unfair/overpowered just because it's causing that person some difficulty. Really no different than saying. "X class was able to defeat me, nerf them!"</b></span></span></p><p><span class="postbody"><i>Whats that? No? it didnt do anything constructive or useful? Its the literal definition of a 'troll post'? Oh. Right. </i><span style="color: #009900;"><b>A post accusing something of unfair! overpowered! unbalanced! can easily be called the definition of a "troll post" as well </b></span><i>If you want to make a post about how cool you all think the write of the jungle sticky is then please do that and /notworthy all you want but doing it in every other post you dissagree with is nothing but under-the-bridge trolling.</i><b> </b><span style="color: #009900;"><b>Has nothing to do with how "cool" we think something is. The Welcome to the Jungle is actually a good thread with some very usefull information and advice.</b></span></span></p><p><span class="postbody"><i>Why not read the thread and post something constructive?</i> <span style="color: #009900;"><b>Constructive? You mean like going to your class boards and asking for advice on what a person can do if someone counters their root-spell? Rather than coming here and making a post about how "unbalanced" some potions are?</b></span><i>In closing, the game isnt perfect and especially after a fresh expansion things need balanced as theyre tested and played through by the players. Telling people to not post when they think something is wrong and only speak up over big sploits/bugs would overall make the devs job a lot harder and is really a bad view to have as a member of an mmo forum and I'm pretty sure players trying to get their voice heard dont appreciate it cluttering the threads they are trying to get taken seriously. </i><span style="color: #009900;"><b>Likewise other players don't appreciate having the forums "cluttered" with thread after thread of "this is unbalanced" "this class needs nerfed" "take this item away it's overpowered" when a player is having difficulty with something like a certain item or an enemy class, the constructive thing to do would be to ask for advice on their class boards. </b></span></span></p></blockquote>

Elephanton
01-12-2008, 09:44 AM
<cite>Shadow_Viper wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote><p><span class="postbody"><i>What someone has said is that there is clearly a legitimate issue with the usefulness of potions when compared to what a melee class gains from using it as compared to what a mage class gains from using it.</i> <span style="color: #009900;"><b>Nope, what someone has said is they don't like their roots being defeated by potions, which doesn't allow them to just sit back and nuke. <span style="color: #ffff00;">So to sum up - as a melee class, you think it is fine that with the current system you are allowed to use CC immunity potions to easily win any mage in a matter of seconds, no matter what. You feel this is balanced, and does not need changing in anyway.</span></b></span></span><span class="postbody"><span style="color: #009900;"><b><span style="color: #ffff00;"></span></b></span></span></p></blockquote></blockquote>

BWLeeEllison
01-12-2008, 02:10 PM
<cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shadow_Viper wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote><p><span class="postbody"><i>What someone has said is that there is clearly a legitimate issue with the usefulness of potions when compared to what a melee class gains from using it as compared to what a mage class gains from using it.</i> <span style="color: #009900;"><b>Nope, what someone has said is they don't like their roots being defeated by potions, which doesn't allow them to just sit back and nuke. <span style="color: #ffff00;">So to sum up - as a melee class, you think it is fine that with the current system you are allowed to use CC immunity potions to easily win any mage in a matter of seconds, no matter what. You feel this is balanced, and does not need changing in anyway.  <span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">As an alchemist I can attest to the fact there are about as many potions that benefit a melee class as there are that benefit the casters/healers.  Poisons are a different matter.  And yes, this is about someone being upset that someone had the common sense to employ a legitimate tool to defeat his roots and kick his can, ruining his fun.  I make potions, but I seldom have any luck defeating roots with them because I am too busy fighting, so I restrict my use of potions to just one kind I like.  Quoting the Laws of the Jungle was appropriate here.  Melee/caster</span></span></b></span></span><span class="postbody"><span style="color: #009900;"><b><span style="color: #ffff00;"><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">/healer, makes no difference.  Potions dont discriminate.</span></span></b></span></span><span class="postbody"><span style="color: #009900;"><b><span style="color: #ffff00;"></span></b></span></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>

Little Helper
01-12-2008, 06:29 PM
<p>Sorry if this has already been mentioned, I couldn't be bothered to read everything.</p><p>Both of the Freedom potions work on the same timer, so if the pop the on to ure your root/fear then pop a stun on them or vice-versa.</p><p>Maybe it's not that simple, I don't know : P</p>

Shadow_Viper
01-12-2008, 06:55 PM
<cite>BWLeeEllison wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shadow_Viper wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote><p><span class="postbody"><i>What someone has said is that there is clearly a legitimate issue with the usefulness of potions when compared to what a melee class gains from using it as compared to what a mage class gains from using it.</i> <span style="color: #009900;"><b>Nope, what someone has said is they don't like their roots being defeated by potions, which doesn't allow them to just sit back and nuke. <span style="color: #ffff00;">So to sum up - as a melee class, you think it is fine that with the current system you are allowed to use CC immunity potions to easily win any mage in a matter of seconds, no matter what. You feel this is balanced, and does not need changing in anyway.  <span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">As an alchemist I can attest to the fact there are about as many potions that benefit a melee class as there are that benefit the casters/healers.  Poisons are a different matter.  <span style="color: #ff0000;">And yes, this is about someone being upset that someone had the common sense to employ a legitimate tool to defeat his roots and kick his can, ruining his fun.</span>  I make potions, but I seldom have any luck defeating roots with them because I am too busy fighting, so I restrict my use of potions to just one kind I like.  Quoting the Laws of the Jungle was appropriate here.  Melee/caster</span></span></b></span></span><span class="postbody"><span style="color: #009900;"><b><span style="color: #ffff00;"><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">/healer, makes no difference.  Potions dont discriminate.</span></span></b></span></span><span class="postbody"><span style="color: #009900;"><b><span style="color: #ffff00;"></span></b></span></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>Thank you, well said.

Psych
01-12-2008, 08:31 PM
Lee Ellison when your not defending you classes the things you say are intelligent and I usually agree.In this case, its poppycock.The potions do discriminate as there is ward pots for every type of damage that the mage classes primarily use and no ward pots for slashing, crushing, piercing, or any pot at all that affects ranged.Even divine can be warded with a pot.Next, lets compare curing a root to...well what would a mage use...hmm...a heal pot? Oh cool a level 72 heal pot heals what? about 700? and the tick based pot heals 500 then ticks of like 180 right? somethin around there. Point is thats less than a 72 swashs auto attack damage so spending a whole second to cast it is a waste. Spending a whole second to cast a root cure is always beneficial. There is no time when you wouldnt want to cure the root. There are times when healing pots would be a bad idea. As in that assassin is stabbing your face after curing your root..youA) Chug heal potB) Cure the root he hasnt casted on you because he doesnt rely on them.C) Chug power regen potD) Chug Ward pot that has no affect on his slashing/piercing damageE) ?????F) ProfitHonestly, claiming that the potions themselves dont discriminate? Sure, we know the lines of code representing the items dont have a bias. But we all know that a heal potion that heals lass damage than a tanks auto attack is not comparable to a root cure. You claim you have a conjurer? Then you know this is true, denying it is just gonna make more of the mage community angry.All the scouts here defending pots are just going to make the mages argue more. If you really were worried about a nerf youd be suggesting fair pots that help counter scout abilities as powerfully as curing a root affects a mage. We all know the chance of new pots being introduced just to balance PVP is zill to null...but alteast you could be distracting them from calling nerf. Instead your so far on the offensive about track and evac etc that every scout jumps to quote the jungle or scream L2P...and this is what will make the devs nerf things...because the mages will seem intelligent and well spoken compared to things that make less sense than a bunny with a pancake on its head...lol...potions dont discriminate...lol...

Elephanton
01-12-2008, 10:40 PM
Well said, <b>Psych</b>

BWLeeEllison
01-13-2008, 05:30 AM
<cite>Psych wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Lee Ellison when your not defending you classes the things you say are intelligent and I usually agree.   <b><span style="color: #0099ff;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">When I am defending my class, I am usually angry at being forced to defend that which should not need defending, and the things I say are typically spoken/written out of passion for what I feel is being unjustly attacked.  You make it sound as though the only time I do not sound intelligent is when I am disagreeing with you.  In such a case, you, sir, are entitled to your opinion, and out of respect I will not verbally attack you here, as I had thought initially to do.</span></b>In this case, its poppycock.The potions do discriminate as there is ward pots for every type of damage that the mage classes primarily use and no ward pots for slashing, crushing, piercing, or any pot at all that affects ranged.  <b><span style="color: #0099ff;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">There are potions that increase melee & ranged crit chance, and ones that increase damage spell & heal cirt chances.  There are potions that increase each of the stats, that increase max power or health, ones that heal over time and ones that heal instantly.  There is even a line of potions that is a damage shield.  There are no potions that offer a ward.  You must be referring to the remedy potions.  Those dispell the various types of damage that mage classes primarily use.  They don't ward against it, but they do dispell dots.  In that particlar line of potions, there is one that might interest you.</span></b></p><p><b><span style="color: #0099ff;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;"><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/#" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><img src="http://eq2images.station.sony.com/000/001/548/820.JPG" border="0" alt="Potion that cures melee dots" width="306" height="318" /></a></span></b></p><p><b><span style="color: #0099ff;font-family: Comic Sans MS;">While there are no warding potions, there are potions that cure.  This, my friend, is the potion that cures melee dots.  The potion that cure all other melee effects are the same ones that cure everything doable by every other class in the game, namely, the instant healing potions, and the heal over time potions.</span></b>Even divine can be warded with a pot.  <b><span style="color: #0099ff;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">Please see the last part of the above paragraph.</span></b>Next, lets compare curing a root to...well what would a mage use...hmm...a heal pot? Oh cool a level 72 heal pot heals what? about 700? and the tick based pot heals 500 then ticks of like 180 right? somethin around there. Point is thats less than a 72 swashs auto attack damage so spending a whole second to cast it is a waste. Spending a whole second to cast a root cure is always beneficial. There is no time when you wouldnt want to cure the root. There are times when healing pots would be a bad idea. As in that assassin is stabbing your face after curing your root..you  <b><span style="color: #0099ff;font-family: courier new,courier;">The level 71 heal is 532 (399 for pvp) or 718 (539 for pvp) for the mastercrafted version.  The HoT is 199 with 100 every 5 for 30 (149 with 75 every 5 for 30 for pvp), and 269 with 134 every 5 for 30 (202 with 101 every 5 for 30 for pvp) for the mastercrafted one.  The HoTs have a 1 second cast, 30 second duration, with a 2 minute 45 second cool down.  The straight heals, 1 second cast, 2 minute 45 second cool down.  The remedies (which are not wards but rather cures) have a 1 second cast and a 15 second cool down.  I believe a sound tactic would be to throw up a HoT then cast a cure to get rid of the root while being healed over time.</span></b>A) Chug heal potB) Cure the root he hasnt casted on you because he doesnt rely on them.C) Chug power regen potD) Chug Ward pot that has no affect on his slashing/piercing damageE) ?????F) ProfitHonestly, claiming that the potions themselves dont discriminate? Sure, we know the lines of code representing the items dont have a bias. But we all know that a heal potion that heals lass damage than a tanks auto attack is not comparable to a root cure. <b><span style="color: #0099ff;font-family: Comic Sans MS;">You can /weapon to see what damage you do in autoattack.  On my main, a 74 swash, his weapon has a damage rating of 76.6 and when I do /weapon, it tells me 112 to 337 actual pvp damage. My conjuror, at level 42, has 2,290 health.  The combat arts deal significantly more damage, which is why people use them.  However, even with this level of damage output, a heal over time potion at his level would allow him to get some other effect off.</span></b>You claim you have a conjurer? Then you know this is true, denying it is just gonna make more of the mage community angry.  <b><span style="color: #0099ff;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">Yes, I have a conjuror, and no disrepect to the mage community, but I uneqivocally deny the supposition that melee autoattack is not equal to a heal potion.  For one thing, that argument is a nonsequitor to any conjuror that knows what he is doing.  The mage is supposed to put his pet on a target.  If the target stops to attack his pet, the conjuror stops to heal pet and nuke the target where able.  If the target pursues the conjuror, the conjuror runs like a little girl while letting his pet do what his pet is supposed to do, namely, be an active and durable DoT on the target, and nothing more.  The temp pets are always handy DoTs as well 8P</span></b>All the scouts here defending pots <b><span style="color: #0099ff;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">I am not defending potions as a scout.  I am defending them as an alchemist, and as an active entrepeneur.  These potions are a portion of my bread and butter son.  </span></b>are just going to make the mages argue more. If you really were worried about a nerf youd be suggesting fair pots that help counter scout abilities as powerfully as curing a root affects a mage <b><span style="color: #0099ff;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">Potions are not as commonly used as you think, else I would be truly wealthy.  Maybe you should consider looking into gear which has root effects on it, to force them to run out of cures, For every tool in the game, there is a tool counters, directly or indirectly, its effect.  In any case, I am all for new potions.  It would give me a chance to earn a few more discoveries 8P</span></b>. We all know the chance of new pots being introduced just to balance PVP is zill to null...but alteast you could be distracting them from calling nerf. Instead your so far on the offensive about track and evac etc that every scout jumps to quote the jungle or scream L2P...and this is what will make the devs nerf things...because the mages will seem intelligent and well spoken compared to things that make less sense than a bunny with a pancake on its head...lol...potions dont discriminate...lol...<b><span style="color: #0099ff;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">Did I mention potions don't ward?</span></b></p></blockquote>

Psych
01-13-2008, 07:50 AM
Are you 100% positive your an alchemist? Please log onto your character and press 'P' to open the persona window and look at where your artisan class is listed.I ask because you clearly state and stress and state and stress and respond to me claiming their are no potions that ward. Here is a pic I took from my paladin 5 minutes ago at the broker. There is a potion like this for elemental, disease, divine, etc...everything but slashing, crushing, piercing.See...this claim that there are no pots that ward...its exactly what I was talking about when I said you dont sound near as intelligent when your defending your class...be it artisan or adventure.I dont know how you could miss this honestly...also you dont need to give me a lesson in pots 101...I know them well enough. heck, my highest character is a 36 and i even knew about these pots. Dude seriously what the?<img src="http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/8435/reprieveokof2.png" alt="" border="0" />In closing I just wanna point out that yeah.../weapon returns wep damage. But its easier than that. Look at your HP bar. Now take how long a mage lasts toe to toe with a scout. 10 seconds tops? Ok, divide your HP by 10 then and your have roughly that scouts DPS against you. Thats what matters. In no case will any scout worth a grain of salt every DPS less than those pots heal or anywhere near so low that the heals from those pots would drastically effect the outcome of the fight the way a root cure obviously does.Honestly, blue con brigs in BB today dps me too hard for me to ever consider a pot if they cured my root. I'd break my heels in the opposite direction and hit mez immediately while praying for no resist and hoping he hasnt launched his ranged CA before I got out of its reach. To put it simply when I went to gorowyn to do the quests (I have done them a ton I have alt-sickness)...I usually take a stack of 10 cure arcane. Nothing else matters. I'm not joking. I come out every time with a positive PVP record vs everyone else using the same quest gear too. One thing that does trouble me is today I thot I got snared 3 times in like 10 seconds vs a druid...still dont know how she did that...anyway I'd totally use the above pot against a wizard and I'm sure you can see why.

BWLeeEllison
01-13-2008, 09:06 AM
<p><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">Yes I was digging through my recipe book as I was posting my previous response.  At level 80, and with all the other miscellaneous and sundry non alchemy related recipes I have, it is very difficult to locate every single recipe.  By the by, why would you need a potion to ward against melee damage?  You can /invite your friendly local mystic/defiler if you want wards, or just wear armor appropriate for your class.  It is called mitigation.  Oversight happens all the time.  It is certainly understandable to miss certain recipes when you have 3,390 recipes to scroll through, thank you very much..</span></b></p><p><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: Comic Sans MS;">In any case, the only recommendation I can make for you is to look at some other tool to help you overcome your deficiencies against melee autoattack.  Potions cannot and should not be the final solution for everything, otherwise you would have potions doing all the nifty things that totems do (and we all know totems do certain things, adornments do certain other things, and potions and poisons do still yet, other things).  Since you are so fond of the broker, I would further suggest you spend more time in game earning money to buy yourself something nice at the broker so that you can live longer.  You may, of course, PM me if you have further personal attacks you wish to make.  I am trying to keep myself from being excessively negative, and this is a rather difficult task with people directly, and loudly, calling me out.</span></b></p>

Psych
01-13-2008, 06:15 PM
I'm saying your name but I'm not doing it to insult you. I'm doing it because your the most well spoken scout on the forum and other scouts tend to follow your lead.I know if I can get you on our side we can win the war and achieve peace and jum-jum.I do use totems (especially sow I cant stand having 0% enchanced speed) but my point is just that if there is anything that gives an edge in PVP you have to assume an opponent will use it. Assuming an opponent does use every single item possible in a fight the class that benefits the least is the mage in my opinion.I'm an adornment newb though sadly. I should buy some cheap ones next time I'm on but I'm trying to wait til lvl 32 to splurge on mastercrafted....only problem is I keep taking alts to about 30 then rolling somethin new <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Back on topic. Potions I would love to see? Potions that can only be used by specific classes! Yes! Balanced easily by the class restrictions placed on them! Still profitable for the alchemist! Nobody gets nerfed!First potion I'd suggest is a Blink Potion for mages with atleast a 30 second timer but make it blink 20 meter instead of like my current blink on my illusionist/coercer. I think a 20 meter head start in a random direction might help a lotta mages get away. Ofcourse it would have to be a little different than the current blink, it would have to be able to be used without an enemy target otherwise nobody would buy it because a 20 meter head start isnt worth entering combat and losing your SOW totem run speed. This is just a dream though I'm certain the devs wont introduce pots just for PVP. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />The only real solution I see is simple; If a root, stifle, fear, etc is cured by a potion have said potion also clear that players immunity timers for the effects it removes. This way I can root again as soon as the spells back up instead of having to wait 3x the roots duration after a cure pot that takes only a second. I think it would be the easiet, quickest, most able to be balanced change to pots to make them more fair towards mages and heck, it goes both ways because now when I cure other classes effects they can use them again as soon as possible just like me.

Oneira
01-14-2008, 06:29 AM
<cite>Psych wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm saying your name but I'm not doing it to insult you. I'm doing it because your the most well spoken scout on the forum and other scouts tend to follow your lead.I know if I can get you on our side we can win the war and achieve peace and jum-jum.I do use totems (especially sow I cant stand having 0% enchanced speed) but my point is just that if there is anything that gives an edge in PVP you have to assume an opponent will use it. Assuming an opponent does use every single item possible in a fight the class that benefits the least is the mage in my opinion.I'm an adornment newb though sadly. I should buy some cheap ones next time I'm on but I'm trying to wait til lvl 32 to splurge on mastercrafted....only problem is I keep taking alts to about 30 then rolling somethin new <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" />Back on topic. Potions I would love to see? Potions that can only be used by specific classes! Yes! Balanced easily by the class restrictions placed on them! Still profitable for the alchemist! Nobody gets nerfed!First potion I'd suggest is a Blink Potion for mages with atleast a 30 second timer but make it blink 20 meter instead of like my current blink on my illusionist/coercer. I think a 20 meter head start in a random direction might help a lotta mages get away. Ofcourse it would have to be a little different than the current blink, it would have to be able to be used without an enemy target otherwise nobody would buy it because a 20 meter head start isnt worth entering combat and losing your SOW totem run speed. This is just a dream though I'm certain the devs wont introduce pots just for PVP. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" /><span style="color: #ff0000;">The only real solution I see is simple; If a root, stifle, fear, etc is cured by a potion have said potion also clear that players immunity timers for the effects it removes. </span>This way I can root again as soon as the spells back up instead of having to wait 3x the roots duration after a cure pot that takes only a second. I think it would be the easiet, quickest, most able to be balanced change to pots to make them more fair towards mages and heck, it goes both ways because now when I cure other classes effects they can use them again as soon as possible just like me.</blockquote>I absolutely 100% agree with that.   Cured effects should not get the benefit of an immunity timer.And as an enchanter, there is a particular problem I would like to point out here.  I don't know quite how, but it seems that it is much easier for ppl out there to cure my mezzes than it used to be.   Mezzes used to be a bugger because there was no way to cure them other than to have another healer or mage cast Cure Arcane on you.  Nowadays even in 1v1 i'm constantly seeing my mezz lasting maybe 1/3 of its duration if that.  Now i'm not a dumb illusionist.  I know perfectly well to switch my personae's auto-attacking off, and I know perfectly well not to throw a dot on my mezzed foe.  So that means the mezz is being brought down by other means.On top of that, the immunity timers on mezz is just plain wrong.  A target should NOT be immune to a mezz for the full duration of the spell, e.g. 20-40 seconds.  WHy?  Becuase unlike stifle or root, you can't do a single point of damage to the target if they are mezzed or it breaks.  But SOE just applied the immunity timer formula across the board rather than looking at each effect individually.  Having your target be immune to all mezzes for 30+ seconds because that's the duration of the effect is yet one more thing that makes enchanters even less effective.A wizard can root you and then proceed the nuke the bejeezus out of you.  If an enchanter could mezz you and then start hitting you with damage spells, then yes, the immunity timer would be warranted.  But enchanters can't do that.  They can hit you with a few power drains maybe.  Coercers, better than illusionists, can load you up with reactives, but that's it.

Elephanton
01-14-2008, 07:43 AM
<p><cite>...</cite></p>

Elephanton
01-14-2008, 07:46 AM
I also agree that immunity timer should be x2 of actual time when the target had CC effect on it.Not x2 time of maximum time the effect COULD potentially be on the target.I mean, come on... how often did you see the root hold for 45 sec in PVP, as it is supposed to? Usually, it does not last for more than 3-4 sec, and yet carries 1 min 30 sec immunity after it is gone.

Shadow_Viper
01-14-2008, 07:47 AM
<p>Without an immunity timer... there is no point in using a potion since the enemy can just root your again right away....</p><p>Mages call for anti-root potions to be removed/nerfed. Yet I don't really see any scouts here calling for anti-stifle potions to be removed/nerfed....</p><p>Potions are tools. As I keep saying, if you have a problem as a mage(for example) keeping someone at distance when they counter your root. I highly encourage you to visit your class boards and ask for advice on what your class can do to keep enemies at a distance besides root. After all, what are you going to do when your roots are resisted? Come to the forums calling for resists to be nerfed.....oh wait people have already done that.... <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>While there are no ward potions against crushing, piercing and slashing damage. That is a <u><b>GREAT</b></u> suggestion. I would advise /feedbacking it. </p>

Elephanton
01-14-2008, 07:50 AM
<cite>Shadow_Viper wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>While there are no ward potions against crushing, piercing and slashing damage. That is a <u><b>GREAT</b></u> suggestion. I would advise /feedbacking it.</p></blockquote>I hope that only clothies would be able to use those, and that they will ward for MUCH more than one T8 melee autoattack (which is 1000-1200), or they would be useless and will not help the situation anyhow.

Elephanton
01-14-2008, 07:53 AM
<cite>Shadow_Viper wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Without an immunity timer... there is no point in using a potion since the enemy can just root your again right away....</p></blockquote><p>1. If root is up for recast2. If it is not resisted3. If you get time to cast it  (in T8 non-sorcs die from scouts in 2-3 seconds)4. If you are not rooted/stunned yourself, to be able to back up after casting root (and have time to do it).</p><p>Way too many "if".</p>

Shadow_Viper
01-14-2008, 07:59 AM
<p>Ifs or not, without the added immunity effect, there is no point in using a freedom of action potion. Since if all the ifs work out, they can just root the person again.</p><p>And I see no reason why not to make crushing, slashing or piercing ward potions useable to everyone.</p>

Elephanton
01-14-2008, 08:09 AM
<cite>Shadow_Viper wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Ifs or not, without the added immunity effect, there is no point in using a freedom of action potion. Since if all the ifs work out, they can just root the person again.</p></blockquote>OK I see your point, you don't want for mages to have a chance even in those rare cases when all IFs work out.Like, from those IFs, resists alone are not balancing enough.kk thanks for your opinion, sorry I don't think I agree with you on it...

-Arctura-
01-14-2008, 08:27 AM
<cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shadow_Viper wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>While there are no ward potions against crushing, piercing and slashing damage. That is a <u><b>GREAT</b></u> suggestion. I would advise /feedbacking it.</p></blockquote>I hope that only clothies would be able to use those, and that they will ward for MUCH more than one T8 melee autoattack (which is 1000-1200), or they would be useless and will not help the situation anyhow.</blockquote>(( id like to see where 1 t8 melee autoattack always hits for 1000-1200. Do you have any logs or screenshots or fraps videos of this? What class, weapon type, and against what kinds of opponents, and of what levels?Ive heard 1 person say they once hit for just over 1000 in a lucky melee autoattack, but I was under the impression its an extremely isolated case, involving people with astronomical gear that is specially adorned to do that, and were using an extremely long delay melee weapon... o.OUnless i heard wrong..

Oneira
01-14-2008, 09:04 AM
<cite>Shadow_Viper wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Without an immunity timer... there is no point in using a potion since the enemy can just root your again right away....</p><p>Mages call for anti-root potions to be removed/nerfed. Yet I don't really see any scouts here calling for anti-stifle potions to be removed/nerfed....</p><p>Potions are tools. As I keep saying, if you have a problem as a mage(for example) keeping someone at distance when they counter your root. I highly encourage you to visit your class boards and ask for advice on what your class can do to keep enemies at a distance besides root. After all, what are you going to do when your roots are resisted? Come to the forums calling for resists to be nerfed.....oh wait people have already done that.... <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>While there are no ward potions against crushing, piercing and slashing damage. That is a <u><b>GREAT</b></u> suggestion. I would advise /feedbacking it. </p></blockquote>No, the enemy would be able to start casting another root on you again, which can be resisted, interrupted, etc.  Here is the problem.  The immunity timers were introduced to prevent chain-stunning, etc.  This was most noticeable with those classes that could keep you perma-stunned, stifled, snared and rooted while pouring on major DPS.  Those classes were, 1) brigands, 2)assassins, 3) swashies, 4) wizards.   Of all of these classes, wizards relied on their roots very heavily, because of long and interruptible casting times.  In order to be fair, SOE applied the immunity timers across the board, but in effect, it wasn't fair to many other classes.  Those classes which rely more heavily on CC, like illusionists and coercers, were more disadvantaged by this change because mezz, stun, and stifle are their bread and butter.  But when their target is now immune to these effects for quite a long duration, they are pretty much hosed, having neither the dps nor the defenses to kill or prevent themselves from being killed.On top of that, the essential defense of a mage is to prevent the enemy from being able to hit them at all, because they are too fragile (manashield has changed that, but for wizards and warlocks only).  Once that defense is removed by means of readily available cure potions, PLUS lengthy immunity timers, then the mage will lose the fight four out of five times. 

Shadow_Viper
01-14-2008, 08:05 PM
<cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shadow_Viper wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Ifs or not, without the added immunity effect, there is no point in using a freedom of action potion. Since if all the ifs work out, they can just root the person again.</p></blockquote>OK I see your point, you don't want for mages to have a chance even in those rare cases when all IFs work out.Like, from those IFs, resists alone are not balancing enough.kk thanks for your opinion, sorry I don't think I agree with you on it...</blockquote><p>Not saying that at all.</p><p>At level 26, my wizard has other tools besides his root spell to keep enemies at a distance. So they do in fact still have a chance, I am sorry if you believe you no longer have a chance if your root is countered by a potion.</p>

Elephanton
01-15-2008, 12:24 PM
<span style="font-size: large;color: #ffff00;"><p><span style="font-size: small;color: #000000;"><span style="color: #66ff33;">I think I've got it!</span></span></p><p><b>Potion that dispels all "Freedom of *" immunities from target.</b></p></span><p><span style="font-size: small;">Can only be used on opponent who currently has Freedom potion effect on him.Dispells immunities coming from Freedom potions ONLY, t</span><span style="font-size: small;">hus only useful to counter Freedom potions usage, and does nothing in all other cases.15 min recast.</span><span style="font-size: small;">Please.And I promise to never post in this or similar threads again.</span></p>

Kru
01-15-2008, 12:28 PM
<cite>Shadow_Viper wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Without an immunity timer... there is no point in using a potion since the enemy can just root your again right away....</p><p>Mages call for anti-root potions to be removed/nerfed. Yet I don't really see any scouts here calling for anti-stifle potions to be removed/nerfed....</p><p>Potions are tools. As I keep saying, if you have a problem as a mage(for example) keeping someone at distance when they counter your root. I highly encourage you to visit your class boards and ask for advice on what your class can do to keep enemies at a distance besides root. After all, what are you going to do when your roots are resisted? Come to the forums calling for resists to be nerfed.....oh wait people have already done that.... <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>While there are no ward potions against crushing, piercing and slashing damage. That is a <u><b>GREAT</b></u> suggestion. I would advise /feedbacking it. </p></blockquote>I could be wrong here, but wouldn't your root immunity keep you from being rooted again immediately afterwards?  If the root they land on you lasts 10 seconds, you'll have 10 seconds of immunity to roots after that first 10 seconds is up.  If I'm missing something here, please let me know..

Elephanton
01-15-2008, 12:38 PM
<cite>Kruhl wrote:</cite><blockquote>I could be wrong here, but wouldn't your root immunity keep you from being rooted again immediately afterwards?  If the root they land on you lasts 10 seconds, you'll have 10 seconds of immunity to roots after that first 10 seconds is up.  If I'm missing something here, please let me know..</blockquote>You are absolutely correct here.

Sightless
01-15-2008, 05:26 PM
<p>There is no caster who could survive a scout if they removed Freedom of Mind (stun/stifle immunity) potions. A caster wouldn't stand a chance at all. But if we're removing a potion because it negates a classes crowd control, wouldn't it make sense to remove all potions that negate any classes crowd control? Watch what you wish for, or you'll hurt your classes chances even more than now.</p>

Elephanton
01-15-2008, 06:30 PM
<cite>Sightless wrote:</cite> <blockquote><p>Watch what you wish for, or you'll hurt your classes chances even more than now.</p></blockquote>No, this is not true. I don't use potions at all on my mage classes.I am just fine without them.

Sightless
01-15-2008, 07:37 PM
<cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sightless wrote:</cite> <blockquote><p>Watch what you wish for, or you'll hurt your classes chances even more than now.</p></blockquote>No, this is not true. I don't use potions at all on my mage classes.I am just fine without them.</blockquote><p>lol.. Then you havn't run into me then, or other scouts, enchanters, or sorcerors who can make the world end by keeping you from doing anything without potions to free up your actions.</p><p>Without stun/stifle immunity, a lot of classes can keep you from casting a single spell.</p>

Psych
01-15-2008, 08:02 PM
<cite>Shadow_Viper wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shadow_Viper wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Ifs or not, without the added immunity effect, there is no point in using a freedom of action potion. Since if all the ifs work out, they can just root the person again.</p></blockquote>OK I see your point, you don't want for mages to have a chance even in those rare cases when all IFs work out.Like, from those IFs, resists alone are not balancing enough.kk thanks for your opinion, sorry I don't think I agree with you on it...</blockquote><p>Not saying that at all.</p><p>At level 26, my wizard has other tools besides his root spell to keep enemies at a distance. So they do in fact still have a chance, I am sorry if you believe you no longer have a chance if your root is countered by a potion.</p></blockquote>Shadow please dont tell fibs! lolIf you had a 26 wizard you would know full well that roots have recast timers and thus curing a root with a 1 second cast time potion leaves a large period of time where your wizards root would have to refresh!Unless I'm just inexperienced with the wizzy class and they have a 1 second recast timer on their root in which case wow thats amazing!Your argument against removing immunities when potions cure the effects is laughable at best. Recast timer on my chanters root is much longer than my fights vs scouts last. I'm very lucky to get a single spell off after the root breaks and they close melee range. If I cant keep that scout off me I am dead plain and simple. There is literally no enchanter in the entire game that can take a scout at melee range ever PERIOD. End of that story.Now try to find an enchanter that can keep them at range if his root gets cured in 1-2 seconds and the opponent is still immune for...sheesh more than a minute?

Raidyen
01-16-2008, 12:42 PM
<cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sightless wrote:</cite> <blockquote><p>Watch what you wish for, or you'll hurt your classes chances even more than now.</p></blockquote>No, this is not true. I don't use potions at all on my mage classes.I am just fine without them.</blockquote>Wait a sec, let me get this straight, you are calling for potion removal because they are too powerful and unbalance pvp, and yet you don't use them?  Not only do you not use them, you claim to be doing just fine without them,  So exactly why are you calling for thier removal? 

Bloodfa
01-16-2008, 12:49 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sightless wrote:</cite> <blockquote><p>Watch what you wish for, or you'll hurt your classes chances even more than now.</p></blockquote>No, this is not true. I don't use potions at all on my mage classes.I am just fine without them.</blockquote>Wait a sec, let me get this straight, you are calling for potion removal because they are too powerful and unbalance pvp, and yet you don't use them?  Not only do you not use them, you claim to be doing just fine without them,  So exactly why are you calling for thier removal?  </blockquote>Because ... somebody used one to break from <i>his</i> root and wtfpwnd him point blank?  Just a hunch. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Elephanton
01-16-2008, 01:05 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sightless wrote:</cite> <blockquote><p>Watch what you wish for, or you'll hurt your classes chances even more than now.</p></blockquote>No, this is not true. I don't use potions at all on my mage classes.I am just fine without them.</blockquote>Wait a sec, let me get this straight, you are calling for potion removal because they are too powerful and unbalance pvp, and yet you don't use them?  Not only do you not use them, you claim to be doing just fine without them,  So exactly why are you calling for thier removal?  </blockquote><p><span style="font-size: small;">Yes, you got it right. As I said many times in this thread already, for my mages, these potions give me nothing at all.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;">At T8, if enemy scout uses Freedom potion, I basically have 2 choices after enemy scout gets point-blank:- die in 2-3 seconds while stunlocked- use Freedom potion and die in 2-3 seconds while immune from stunlock</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;">Which is why, I don't use these potions at all.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;">Also, if you read this thread carefully, I actually don't ask to remove these potions, but to balance them and add new potions as well, making alchemy useful for all players including mages.For instance, as it was noticed already in this thread:</span><span style="font-size: small;">- why there are potions already available to ward against all types of magic damage, but not against melee damage?- why there are potions granting immunities, but no potions for dispelling immunities? Melee fighters need to get immunities, Mages need their targets not to have immunities, so let's make them both happy with the potion selections?Note that Freedom potions were in game way before PVP was introduced. Crowd control existed before, which is why they were added in the game. And accidentally, they appeared extremely useful in PVP.Later, PVP was introduced, it brought whole new concept of immunities, and no potions to control this new mechanics. I believe, such potions need to be added for better alchemy usefulness balance in game.</span></p>

Elephanton
01-16-2008, 01:14 PM
<span style="font-size: small;">Another potential fix could be for "Freedom of *" potions to work much like (55) Voice of the Ancestors defiler's spell, i.e. only dispell control effect, but do not provide 10 sec immunity after that to the same type of effects after that.</span>