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Siphar
01-09-2008, 12:00 PM
<p>Please please please remove titles or let me reset mine!</p><p>I have so much more fun when infamy is not an issue.</p><p>It's not so much about me maintaining infamy, it's more about me not wanting to give anyone else my infamy!</p><p>Infamy which decays is a nice idea which was agreed on by most people yet has never even been discussed as a possibility by the dev's. So imo if SoE aren't willing to invest any time into a better system, then please just remove it.</p>

Pravius
01-09-2008, 12:09 PM
What in the heck is the big deal about titles?  I just can not seem to see why it is so important to some people.  Is it like the male complex?  If my title is not big enough I may not be cool?Edit:  I am not saying this to the OP just in general I do not see what the big deal is based off my playing experiences.  I have actually had someone leave a grp I was in because they said they were afraid to die and they do not want to lose their title.  I just do not get it.

Wytie
01-09-2008, 12:11 PM
<p>I have to disagree there isnt to many things, much better than de-ranking a hated foe.</p><p>People in general are goal oriented, if you romove things for folks to work and play for, you must fill that void with something similer otherwise you will simply loose some players intrest.</p><p>Also some may feel that they have worked very hard for the very thing you hate and weather we like it or not. How fair would it be to simply take it away? So what happens when someone takes something away you feel your earned? You get upset (we all would) and then loose any intrest that you had not simply cause titles are gone but because someone took yours away and there was nothing you could do about it, after the fact you may have spent lots of time earning yours.</p><p>Its all about perspective, and there is always more than one.  <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

Roald
01-09-2008, 12:22 PM
<p>tbh, I'd prefer it if they made titles more meaningful, rather than scraped them. If they aren't gonna do that, I say removing them would be best for PvP.</p><p>Im not quite sure how to better titles, but it has to be something that make people want to PvP more, rather than running from every fight where there is a reasonable chance of losing fame.</p><p>You could make it so Titles ran off Total kills only. That way people would have a HUGE incentive to pvp. That idea alone would increase PvP dramatically. The running would decrease dramatically, and all the fame [Removed for Content]  would no longer be able to loose fame.</p><p>Maybe make it so that you can't loose fame when there are more people engaged with you than you have. Eg 5 people can't loose fame to 6 people, or 1 person won't loose fame if ganked by 2 people. This would mean you can only gain/lose fame in 1v1,2v2,3v3 etc.</p><p>There are just some ideas I've thought of while i wrote this post, and they are quite possibly flawed. But the point remains the same, change titles, or if you can't think of a good system, remove them.</p>

Amphibia
01-09-2008, 12:48 PM
I agree with the OP. Everyone runs or evacs, and I'm sure the possibility for fame loss has a lot to do with it. PvP is ten times more fun when fame is not an issue. If it can't be changed or removed, at least let us choose to disable our titles if we don't want to take part in that?

valkyriepc
01-09-2008, 12:52 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>tbh, I'd prefer it if they made titles more meaningful, rather than scraped them. If they aren't gonna do that, I say removing them would be best for PvP.</p><p>Im not quite sure how to better titles, but it has to be something that make people want to PvP more, rather than running from every fight where there is a reasonable chance of losing fame.</p><p>You could make it so Titles ran off Total kills only. That way people would have a HUGE incentive to pvp. That idea alone would increase PvP dramatically. The running would decrease dramatically, and all the fame [Removed for Content]  would no longer be able to loose fame.</p><p>Maybe make it so that you can't loose fame when there are more people engaged with you than you have. Eg 5 people can't loose fame to 6 people, or 1 person won't loose fame if ganked by 2 people. This would mean you can only gain/lose fame in 1v1,2v2,3v3 etc.</p><p>There are just some ideas I've thought of while i wrote this post, and they are quite possibly flawed. But the point remains the same, change titles, or if you can't think of a good system, remove them.</p></blockquote>I think one way to make titles meaningful would be to add a decay, and make title specific armor / items. Remove tokens and arbitrary pvp items and make them title based.

Bloodfa
01-09-2008, 01:00 PM
<p>Death by grey, lose fame.  Kill orange or red, gain fame.  Yellow could be a 1 level difference, not much of a difference there.  Greens and blues ... nah, no reward.</p><p>Or total levels involved <u>vs.</u> total levels involved, no fame unless opponent has a 20% advantage.  Anyone doing less than 10% doesn't get any reward, to keep the leechers out of it.</p>

Wytie
01-09-2008, 01:02 PM
<cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote>I agree with the OP. Everyone runs or evacs, and I'm sure the possibility for fame loss has a lot to do with it. PvP is ten times more fun when fame is not an issue. If it can't be changed or removed, at least let us choose to disable our titles if we don't want to take part in that? </blockquote><p>See thats just the thing, Iv had more people who were nontitles/out of title range run and evac from me than folks within title range.</p><p>The only difference is the folks who were untitled or out of title range when they ran or evaced they were gone.</p><p>But the people who were in title range when they evaced they came back with some help. You wouldnt imagine how many nontitle folks run and evac, its just as much, and it cracks me up. Im like why are they here, no title and they still dont fight. Its simply no one like to die titles or not.</p><p>Removing titles wont change a thing, running is already brainwashed in there heads all removing titles will do is [Removed for Content] more of the player base off and further ruduce the amout of pvp accounts.</p>

Amphibia
01-09-2008, 01:11 PM
<cite>Wytie wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote>I agree with the OP. Everyone runs or evacs, and I'm sure the possibility for fame loss has a lot to do with it. PvP is ten times more fun when fame is not an issue. If it can't be changed or removed, at least let us choose to disable our titles if we don't want to take part in that? </blockquote><p>See thats just the thing, Iv had more people who were nontitles/out of title range run and evac from me than folks within title range.</p><p>The only difference is the folks who were untitled or out of title range when they ran or evaced they were gone.</p><p>But the people who were in title range when they evaced they came back with some help. You wouldnt imagine how many nontitle folks run and evac, its just as much, and it cracks me up. Im like why are they here, no title and they still dont fight. Its simply no one like to die titles or not.</p><p>Removing titles wont change a thing, running is already brainwashed in there heads all removing titles will do is [Removed for Content] more of the player base off and further ruduce the amout of pvp accounts.</p></blockquote>Then let me disable my own title at least, and leave this little game to those who enjoy it. I really don't, and I would prefer to PvP without it.

MaCloud1032
01-09-2008, 01:25 PM
<p>I dont mind dieing.</p><p>Personaly i think if you die to anyone who is a lower title than you you should loose fame.  Titles origionaly showed how good one was in pvp.  Now for the most part it shows how good you are at avoiding deaths.  If you play enough you know who deservers there titles and who does not.A dread loosed to a hunter well that happens but if it happens enough that person is goingot loose there fame.  Just like RL if a Pro boxer loosed once to a amature he shurgs it off he keeps loosing to tamitures people start to wonder how he bacame pro.</p>

Siphar
01-10-2008, 11:48 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I dont mind dieing.</p><p>Personaly i think if you die to anyone who is a lower title than you you should loose fame.  Titles origionaly showed how good one was in pvp.  Now for the most part it shows how good you are at avoiding deaths.  If you play enough you know who deservers there titles and who does not.A dread loosed to a hunter well that happens but if it happens enough that person is goingot loose there fame.  Just like RL if a Pro boxer loosed once to a amature he shurgs it off he keeps loosing to tamitures people start to wonder how he bacame pro.</p></blockquote><p>The point is pal! <b>what does it do for PvP???</b> </p><p>IMO is makes it un-fun and is overall more detrimental to PvP. </p><p>(In that I mean it encourages "some" people to PvP more than they would if no titles were present, but it makes far more people avoid pvp).</p><p>Why? because people are far more inclined to run/evac or even disband as someone put it when they might lose fame. I understand it is not as important when you are a hunter, destroyer or whatever, but when you get to General or Master like myself or higher, then fame <b><span style="font-size: medium;">is</span></b> a big issue because it becomes very difficult to increase (due to the lack of targets and each target is generally better at avoiding death).</p><p>As I mentioned earlier (and a few other supported) keep titles in if they can't be improved (e.g. by decay system) but allow me to reset mine to zero. A time limit can be placed on the number of times you can reset it, say for example 1 week or whatever. Then if the vast majority of people want to reset, it gives some chance for the remianing people to gain infmay should they wish to do so.</p><p>I'd also like to highlight the impact of a title which will sound extreme but is actually a fact. On my solo coercer (hunter) people flock to fight me all the time and no one ever runs. On my solo assassin (general/master) when someone sees my name, 80-90% of people run and don't even bother to try and fight. The only people that stay and fight are grps (yes I attack grps solo), those being ganked (not by choice haha), other scouts who think they stand a chance and a few other specific exceptions...</p><p>I have had far more fights which were fun when a title and infamy was not involved... now let me reset mine! (as above)</p>

Siphar
01-10-2008, 12:00 PM
<p>People have also said that a title reflects how good you are at fleeing and in some cases - How good you are at PvP.</p><p><b><span style="font-size: large;">NEWS FLASH</span></b></p><p>All the proper PvP'ers know who the good pvp'ers are! No title is required for this... </p>

-Arctura-
01-10-2008, 02:56 PM
(( I would be in full support of changing the following about titles:High titled folks should LOSE infamy from low titled folks HOWEVER the low titled folks who would (at present) get no infamy, will STILL get NO infamy.  (to prevent exploits as well)The high titled folks will just LOSE it for dying to a lower titled personGrey cons CANNOT gain infamy from Reds. (Go away you evil dock-camping twink grey groups! =P)The rest can stay the same, titled folks will need to STILL kill one person above or below them to GAIN... however a death to anyone will cause a LOSS.If the Boxing Champion of the world lost a fight to a North American grey squirrel one day, he would lose alot of infamy regarding his title =P(the squirrel would only gain fame and recognition among his peers)

Amphibia
01-10-2008, 03:11 PM
If higher titled people lost fame to <b>all</b> lower ranked ones, they would do nothing but running and evac'ïng all day long. A little bit like the way it is already, only a tad worse. The fame game is just fun if you play a gank & run class, or have a guaranteed spot in a very well stacked group. If people really want the title system to stay that way, at least let the rest of us <u>choose</u> if we want to participate or not by adding some kind of /disable command for fame. Oh well, I guess I could always spend 3-4 hours just chain-suiciding to get rid of it every now and then, like some of my guildies have done.....

MaCloud1032
01-10-2008, 03:44 PM
<cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I dont mind dieing.</p><p>Personaly i think if you die to anyone who is a lower title than you you should loose fame.  Titles origionaly showed how good one was in pvp.  Now for the most part it shows how good you are at avoiding deaths.  If you play enough you know who deservers there titles and who does not.A dread loosed to a hunter well that happens but if it happens enough that person is goingot loose there fame.  Just like RL if a Pro boxer loosed once to a amature he shurgs it off he keeps loosing to tamitures people start to wonder how he bacame pro.</p></blockquote><p>The point is pal! <b>what does it do for PvP???</b> </p><p>IMO is makes it un-fun and is overall more detrimental to PvP. </p><p>(In that I mean it encourages "some" people to PvP more than they would if no titles were present, but it makes far more people avoid pvp).</p><p>Why? because people are far more inclined to run/evac or even disband as someone put it when they might lose fame. I understand it is not as important when you are a hunter, destroyer or whatever, but when you get to General or Master like myself or higher, then fame <b><span style="font-size: medium;">is</span></b> a big issue because it becomes very difficult to increase (due to the lack of targets and each target is generally better at avoiding death).</p><p>As I mentioned earlier (and a few other supported) keep titles in if they can't be improved (e.g. by decay system) but allow me to reset mine to zero. A time limit can be placed on the number of times you can reset it, say for example 1 week or whatever. Then if the vast majority of people want to reset, it gives some chance for the remianing people to gain infmay should they wish to do so.</p><p>I'd also like to highlight the impact of a title which will sound extreme but is actually a fact. On my solo coercer (hunter) people flock to fight me all the time and no one ever runs. On my solo assassin (general/master) when someone sees my name, 80-90% of people run and don't even bother to try and fight. The only people that stay and fight are grps (yes I attack grps solo), those being ganked (not by choice haha), other scouts who think they stand a chance and a few other specific exceptions...</p><p>I have had far more fights which were fun when a title and infamy was not involved... now let me reset mine! (as above)</p></blockquote>What it does for my pvp is nothing.  All i see are full groups evacing from my group.  Period.  Iam a dread how does that affect the way in witch i pvp.  I dont have extra skills because of my title i dont die any more or less all it shows is either you can kill people near your own titel or you can run like a little [Removed for Content].

Tae
01-10-2008, 03:51 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote> I just can not seem to see why it is so important to some people.  </blockquote>The only way to see that another person PvPs right now is to see that they have a title. If I log off that day having lost a title, I've in effect gone backwards from where I was when I logged in. That's why I don't like to lose my title. It's a form of progression, and I hate being forced backwards.

Vodekki
01-10-2008, 09:26 PM
<p>My only problem with titles is they just don't make sense.</p><p>In kunzar one day, myself and my brother were duoing quests...level 77 and 75. During a 3-4 hour session, we ran into lots of enemies, ranging from blue to yellow con...even killed a pair of 80 champions. We ended up at about a 25 kill streak, with about 10 of them fame kills.</p><p>My brother's wife needed him, so he logged off. I proceeded to run to a post to fly to a mailbox, and ran into a full group, me being solo. They killed me, and I lost my currant title....</p><p>Where the heck does that make sense? Kill 25 people, almost half fame hits...die ONE time to a full group while alone, and lose title??</p><p>I've also noticed that there is alot of high title 80s that run in a full group....scouring the zones for solos, duos, trios....and they evac over and over from enemy full groups, refusing to fight 6 vs 6, for fear of possibly losing fame...</p><p>Currant title system has created a pvp system of Chickens....hardly anyone ever takes on the hard fights, to see what their made of. To take it to the wire, last man standing so to speak.</p><p>Not everyone is like this...but sure seems like 60-75% of them are.</p><p>Make titles hard to earn, through total fame earned, with decay only way to lose them...and maybe *some* of the above types of chickens will slowly start actually fighting tough fights <shrug></p><p>When I see a champion +...I do not think "wow, ubar pvper!!"...I just gather 2 things only...1) They pvp often, great.....2) They have a title that they *may* have worked hard, taking it to the wire in fights and prevailing, or *more likely* got a lot of their fame hits through only "can't lose" fights...and I think nothing more then that about them.</p><p>I don't consider a solo fellow evacing from a group, or even evacing from a pair of yellow cons, or such...but evacing 2 vs 3, or fg vs fg...or solo vs solo....I can remember being in Jarsith, and my brother says "wife agro, AF to you"...so I continue with him stuck to me killing some stuff for the quest we were on, and some yellows fly over and jumped off...so i evac'd. Was called a Puzzy ( with summoned pet ) for it...<shrug> not gonna fight them alone. Later when the same yellow came flying by and jumped to fight me by himself...I fought him and won.</p><p>I never run or evac if im with 4 people or more, even versus other full groups...those fights are too fun to miss...I will run / evac when alone when im outnumbered many times....though I've been known to run up solo and see if i can take down one person in a duo / trio before i die <grin>. </p>

Tatate
01-10-2008, 09:36 PM
People get too involved with titles, they mean nothing, so I really don't care if they keep them in or not. 

Csky
01-10-2008, 10:46 PM
<p>the point is they promote people to not take any risks and run around in situations that they have advantages in all the time ..like scouts killing greens that stand no chance against them for thier tokens,,groups running around mowing down everything they come across</p><p>without the title and reward system PVP would be more quality and people would take more risks and probably engage in more formidable PVP instead of just farming </p>

Spyderbite
01-10-2008, 11:04 PM
<cite>Csky wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>like scouts killing greens that stand no chance against them for thier tokens</p></blockquote>Scouts don't have a monopoly on that practice. I have yet to meet <b>anybody</b> who passes up a solo green for a free token regardless of their class. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Csky
01-10-2008, 11:09 PM
<p>i dont kill them unless theres more than one of them and if theres 2 and im with a friend we let them go</p><p>i guess tokens and titles mean more to some people then they do others because i dont need them that bad to run around killing people in fights they stand no chance in but i guess thats just me /shrug</p>

Spyderbite
01-10-2008, 11:52 PM
<cite>Csky wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>i dont kill them unless theres more than one of them and if theres 2 and im with a friend we let them go</p><span style="color: #990000;">You're the exception.. but blanket statementing scouts as "green farmers" was my point. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I (as a brigand) never have to worry about making a moral decision when it comes to greens. If I don't attack and kill him/her.. they'll just be back in moments with 3 or 4 of their yellow friends to kill <b>me</b>. Nuttin' to do with their token or fame. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span><p> i guess tokens and titles mean more to some people then they do others because i dont need them that bad to run around killing people in fights they stand no chance in but i guess thats just me /shrug</p><p><span style="color: #990000;">I like getting tokens cause it means that I actually won a fight! XD Titles on the other hand.. meh.. remove them from the game and I'd never know they were missing.</span></p></blockquote>

Stinkybeagle
01-11-2008, 01:03 AM
<p>When I see a [Removed for Content] group come dive bomben off there Sokkors I run my lill solo butt off couse if they want my token there gonna have to earn it !!!  60% of the time I can make it , the other 40% is when the group dont outright attack till they all can get there roots stuns and snares off on me before combat speed takes hold. </p><p>I used to run in a 3 rat group , one dirge on troub and one fury. Few got away unless evac was up so runners was minamized with that set up. Besides the comman run speed these days is 40% unless you have the better mounts,  a bard or a cheeta caster. Its alot harder runnen these days.</p><p> anyways , back on topic.I could Care Less about titles they do nothing... its the token lust thats scarey. I dont play my caster solo in fens anymore just becouse i dont wana be handen out free sets of armor , so I play my scout so i can get out of the [Removed for Content] groups way with a a better chance. Its all romantic going out in a blaze of glory but saving your life means one or more less tokens for the enemy to become even more powerfull.</p>

Spyderbite
01-11-2008, 01:11 AM
<cite>Stinkybeagle wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>[I cannot control my vocabulary]</p></blockquote>"<span style="font-size: x-small;font-family: Arial;">You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." - Inigo, 1987</span>

Stinkybeagle
01-11-2008, 01:14 AM
<p>lol thats not even a bad word , ill give ya a hint though..................</p><p>She cried [Removed for Content]  !!!</p>

Spyderbite
01-11-2008, 01:16 AM
<cite>Stinkybeagle wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>lol thats not even a bad word , ill give ya a hint though.................. </p><p>She cried [I cannot control my vocabulary]  !!!</p></blockquote>Heh.. don't mean to derail the thread.. but yah.. that is a "bad" word. Its vile actually. Look up the definition.Unless of course I misunderstood your sample use of the word.

Stinkybeagle
01-11-2008, 01:22 AM
<p>Guess you right depending on how its used. Ill use the thesaurus next time. Or better yet , "violater groups"=p Ok back on track..... </p><p>Titles < Tokens</p><p> IMO</p>

Siphar
01-11-2008, 11:10 AM
<cite>Stinkybeagle wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Guess you right depending on how its used. Ill use the thesaurus next time. Or better yet , "violater groups"=p Ok back on track..... </p><p>Titles < Tokens</p><p> IMO</p></blockquote><p>Thanks for <u>your opinion</u> so long as you understand it is <b>YOUR</b> opinion and not shared by everyone. </p><p>Lots of people see titles as another way of progression and when they start getting a good title, they refuse to let their previous hard work go to waste. This is ofcourse not the case for everyone.. Titles <b>imo</b> are detrimental to PvP when they are <i>forced upon everyone</i>!</p><p>Going back to my <span style="font-size: medium;"><b>OP</b></span>, I'd like everyone to have the <i><u><span style="font-size: medium;">option</span></u></i> to par-take in titles.. hence why i'd like to see a reset-title icon on my bar which can be used every few days/week or whatever.</p>

Siphar
01-11-2008, 11:13 AM
<cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Stinkybeagle wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Guess you right depending on how its used. Ill use the thesaurus next time. Or better yet , "violater groups"=p Ok back on track..... </p><p>Titles < Tokens</p><p> IMO</p></blockquote><p>Thanks for <u>your opinion</u> so long as you understand it is <b>YOUR</b> opinion and not shared by everyone. </p><p>Lots of people see titles as another way of progression and when they start getting a good title, they refuse to let their previous hard work go to waste. This is ofcourse not the case for everyone.. Titles <b>imo</b> are detrimental to PvP when they are <i>forced upon everyone</i>!</p><p>Going back to my <span style="font-size: medium;"><b>OP</b></span>, I'd like everyone to have the <i><u><span style="font-size: medium;">option</span></u></i> to par-take in titles.. hence why i'd like to see a reset-title icon on my bar which can be used every few days/week or whatever.</p></blockquote>Especially if Sony aren't willing to fix current titles to reflect good honouroble PvP play, which as discussed to death before ... is only possible with a decay system .. and even that isn't perfect.. but far better imo (and lots of other people agreed at the time) than the current system.

stgninja
01-11-2008, 12:07 PM
I say remove titles, that way people will actually go out and pvp instead of hiding in the city hugging that title.

Reddeth
01-11-2008, 12:18 PM
<p>I know this guy who refuses to go out if his evac is down. Even if he is in a full group. </p><p> That's pretty pathetic imo.</p><p> It's a fricken game. Deaths will happen.</p><p>One thing though. I don't like the system as it is currently. Let me give you an example.</p><p>Let's say I kill someone and get Champion, ok, I die to a group and lose it, but now it takes more than that 1 infamy kill to get champion back.</p><p> It just seems that you lose too much infamy even when dying to a group and when you kill someone solo, you get too little. oh well.</p>

Outkasted2006
01-11-2008, 12:19 PM
<cite>Wytie wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I have to disagree there isnt to many things, much better than de-ranking a hated foe.</p><p>People in general are goal oriented, if you romove things for folks to work and play for, you must fill that void with something similer otherwise you will simply loose some players intrest.</p><p>Also some may feel that they have worked very hard for the very thing you hate and weather we like it or not. How fair would it be to simply take it away? So what happens when someone takes something away you feel your earned? You get upset (we all would) and then loose any intrest that you had not simply cause titles are gone but because someone took yours away and there was nothing you could do about it, after the fact you may have spent lots of time earning yours.</p><p>Its all about perspective, and there is always more than one.  <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote><p>The way the title system works nowadays , most people can't or shouldn't be proud of their title.</p><p>1.) The way people hug titles, run from most battles, even ones that are even up or slightly in their favor.</p><p>2.) Run in full groups, x2 raids, with everyone having way more AA then they should, each of them very much twinked out, some on vent, Seriously how can you sit their and brag about your titles. Fact is the Fame system now sucks, and grouping with the fame [Removed for Content] is even worse.</p>

Strelok7
01-11-2008, 01:17 PM
<cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Please please please remove titles or let me reset mine!</p><p>I have so much more fun when infamy is not an issue.</p><p>It's not so much about me maintaining infamy, it's more about me not wanting to give anyone else my infamy!</p><p>Infamy which decays is a nice idea which was agreed on by most people yet has never even been discussed as a possibility by the dev's. So imo if SoE aren't willing to invest any time into a better system, then please just remove it.</p></blockquote>With out titles pvp won't be ineteresting, + again it's shows how carefull and good u are with your class, and please don't tell me i am necro or conj or some healer type and i can't evac i have no track , yes u don't have track and u don't have evac but u can get evac from pvp city merchant, i run "Cat" totems 24/7 , u also can get Deity evac , tinkering evac how many evacs do u need?  if u running totem u can see if person in stealth or invis. U will say i have weak armor low health - yes u do and that's hwo class made - why do we see high titles cloth wearing classes? many cloth wearing classes have many control spells -- fear, root, mezz, stun stifle, learn to use it , if u can't and u find easy to play scout class roll one then. There is many items in game that help u in pvp to make it more easyer for your class to fight other classes. But yes Necro and Conj weaker compare to some other classes.

Amphibia
01-11-2008, 01:43 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Please please please remove titles or let me reset mine!</p><p>I have so much more fun when infamy is not an issue.</p><p>It's not so much about me maintaining infamy, it's more about me not wanting to give anyone else my infamy!</p><p>Infamy which decays is a nice idea which was agreed on by most people yet has never even been discussed as a possibility by the dev's. So imo if SoE aren't willing to invest any time into a better system, then please just remove it.</p></blockquote>With out titles pvp won't be ineteresting, + again it's shows how carefull and good u are with your class, and please don't tell me i am necro or conj or some healer type and i can't evac i have no track , yes u don't have track and u don't have evac but u can get evac from pvp city merchant, i run "Cat" totems 24/7 , u also can get Deity evac , tinkering evac how many evacs do u need?  if u running totem u can see if person in stealth or invis. U will say i have weak armor low health - yes u do and that's hwo class made - why do we see high titles cloth wearing classes? many cloth wearing classes have many control spells -- fear, root, mezz, stun stifle, learn to use it , if u can't and u find easy to play scout class roll one then. There is many items in game that help u in pvp to make it more easyer for your class to fight other classes. But yes Necro and Conj weaker compare to some other classes. </blockquote>... says the brigand?This post is so full of factual errors that it's just amazing.1. Fame is lost regardless of how unfair it was, or how outnumbered you were. You won't get away from a group without evac, unless you're very lucky with the circumstances or they are not paying attention at all. Scouts like you get a version of evac that is nearly uninterruptable, which makes it far easier to escape gank squads and avoid a fame hit. 2. Diety evac is only available for Freeport aligned players. It also gets expensive after a while, and I believe recast is 1 hour, compared to your 15 minute recast. 3. Escape lockets are also 1 hour recast, very easy to interrupt, takes you to your bindpoint (inconvinient), very expensive (100k status + 12g each) and lore. 4. A title says nothing about skill or how careful you are at playing your class. You get a decent one automatically by running in a ganksquad, and always evac if the odds are not entirely in your favor. It clearly favors classes with evac and track, as those will be able to move around far more freely.5. Everyone knows about the cat totems, but turning your camera around and spamming next hostile key is not exactly comparable to having a track window. Especially not when people are running around being the size of a jellybean due to bristlebane shrink, moppet shrink and cat/spider illusion, thus making targetting very difficult. 6. A clothy that gets jumped by a scout, have usually no choice but to fight. Any escape without using something that will put you into combat is usually futile. An attempt to evac on the other hand, does <i>not</i> put you into combat. Always wondered why that is.... 7. Resists are currently out of whack, and casting mez often require 3-5 attempts, even with all kinds of AA-enchancements. A brigand needs no more than 3 seconds to drop a clothy without manashield. 8. Deal with it or reroll is a pretty weak argument. If everyone did that, half the server population would be scouts.... wait......

Bloodfa
01-11-2008, 01:52 PM
Oh, crap. It's Friday and I'm in total agreement with Amphibia. Something really bad must be about to happen.

Csky
01-11-2008, 05:26 PM
<p>hes on a roll i agree with him too</p>

Outkasted2006
01-11-2008, 05:57 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Please please please remove titles or let me reset mine!</p><p>I have so much more fun when infamy is not an issue.</p><p>It's not so much about me maintaining infamy, it's more about me not wanting to give anyone else my infamy!</p><p>Infamy which decays is a nice idea which was agreed on by most people yet has never even been discussed as a possibility by the dev's. So imo if SoE aren't willing to invest any time into a better system, then please just remove it.</p></blockquote>With out titles pvp won't be ineteresting, + again it's shows how carefull and good u are with your class, and please don't tell me i am necro or conj or some healer type and i can't evac i have no track , yes u don't have track and u don't have evac but u can get evac from pvp city merchant, i run "Cat" totems 24/7 , u also can get Deity evac , tinkering evac how many evacs do u need?  if u running totem u can see if person in stealth or invis. U will say i have weak armor low health - yes u do and that's hwo class made - why do we see high titles cloth wearing classes? many cloth wearing classes have many control spells -- fear, root, mezz, stun stifle, learn to use it , if u can't and u find easy to play scout class roll one then. There is many items in game that help u in pvp to make it more easyer for your class to fight other classes. But yes Necro and Conj weaker compare to some other classes. </blockquote>Titles have absolutely no bearing on how good you. Exactly why I can't stand the system right now. There is no arguement you can make to back up that statement sorry.

Outkasted2006
01-11-2008, 06:00 PM
<cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Please please please remove titles or let me reset mine!</p><p>I have so much more fun when infamy is not an issue.</p><p>It's not so much about me maintaining infamy, it's more about me not wanting to give anyone else my infamy!</p><p>Infamy which decays is a nice idea which was agreed on by most people yet has never even been discussed as a possibility by the dev's. So imo if SoE aren't willing to invest any time into a better system, then please just remove it.</p></blockquote>With out titles pvp won't be ineteresting, + again it's shows how carefull and good u are with your class, and please don't tell me i am necro or conj or some healer type and i can't evac i have no track , yes u don't have track and u don't have evac but u can get evac from pvp city merchant, i run "Cat" totems 24/7 , u also can get Deity evac , tinkering evac how many evacs do u need?  if u running totem u can see if person in stealth or invis. U will say i have weak armor low health - yes u do and that's hwo class made - why do we see high titles cloth wearing classes? many cloth wearing classes have many control spells -- fear, root, mezz, stun stifle, learn to use it , if u can't and u find easy to play scout class roll one then. There is many items in game that help u in pvp to make it more easyer for your class to fight other classes. But yes Necro and Conj weaker compare to some other classes. </blockquote>... says the brigand?6. A clothy that gets jumped by a scout, have usually no choice but to fight. Any escape without using something that will put you into combat is usually futile. An attempt to evac on the other hand, does <i>not</i> put you into combat. Always wondered why that is.... </blockquote><p>I agree with everything you said bro, but let me add this. What's funny? Evac doesn't put them in combat, but Pact of Cheetah does. LOL which would be the Fury's only line of defense and getting away from a gank squad LOL.</p><p>Let's add a funny story. So one day I am farming a zone I am destroyer at the time. A Champion Wizard and Destroyer Defiler attempt to attack me. While I am fighting a named. I get them both about out of power, All the sudden they disappear, and im out of combat. I sit there wondering what happened. After about 10mins, I continue on. Well after about 65-70mins later It happens again, nearly to a "T". I send a tell to a friend of mine he explains that its a miracle.  So that being said I assume I am safe for 1hr. Since I know Champion Rawr wouldn't have the balls to put his infamy on the line in a fair fight. Oh but I didn't think of the alternative. They came back 5 deep and rolled me I lost my destroyer title. So now I am a slayer.</p><p>So your telling me after that, that means I am necessarily worse then any dest,champ. fury around? Screw that. It's crap like that that make fame absolutely POINTLESS.</p><p>Heck last night, me and 2 guildies( they were 30,32 at the time) I was 52, saw about 6 freeps coming(was helping them with a HQ) I disbanded, and regrouped. Figured they wouldnt attack. Oh but wait they did. and they almost died.. but wait a second, a second full group joins in and we end up going down. There was 3 other q's there, all were middle 30's going against  12 freeps 37-40 LOL. good times. But wait a second that took skill right? They deserved fame right? Heck they all should just be given master titles. Heck I wish all you people that cared about titles just got overseer to start game that way we'd never see you anywhere but in QH,EFP, or in a instance.</p>

MaCloud1032
01-11-2008, 06:14 PM
<cite>Csky wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>hes on a roll i agree with him too</p></blockquote>you mean she  amphibia is a chick  and agree with her also

Armironhead
01-11-2008, 06:22 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>tbh, I'd prefer it if they made titles more meaningful, rather than scraped them. If they aren't gonna do that, I say removing them would be best for PvP.</p><p>Im not quite sure how to better titles, but it has to be something that make people want to PvP more, rather than running from every fight where there is a reasonable chance of losing fame.</p><p>You could make it so Titles ran off Total kills only. That way people would have a HUGE incentive to pvp. That idea alone would increase PvP dramatically. The running would decrease dramatically, and all the fame [Removed for Content]  would no longer be able to loose fame.</p><p>Maybe make it so that you can't loose fame when there are more people engaged with you than you have. Eg 5 people can't loose fame to 6 people, or 1 person won't loose fame if ganked by 2 people. This would mean you can only gain/lose fame in 1v1,2v2,3v3 etc.</p><p>There are just some ideas I've thought of while i wrote this post, and they are quite possibly flawed. But the point remains the same, change titles, or if you can't think of a good system, remove them.</p></blockquote>Infamy lose/gain should be on a weighted system where lvl, grp size, and rank itself are the primary factors.  Sure it would be more complex, but it makes much more sense -- for instance if a green con hunter manges to pull down a yellow con desy on his own, by rights he should get a big boost in infamy for the kill.  But if the yellow kills the green -- well he shouldn't get much of a boost because its expected/not much of a challenge.  Certainly a system weighted in this fashion would reduce the incentive of folks to gank greens, but it would also reward folks to take on bigger challenges.

Bloodfa
01-11-2008, 06:51 PM
<cite>Outkasted2006 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Please please please remove titles or let me reset mine!</p><p>I have so much more fun when infamy is not an issue.</p><p>It's not so much about me maintaining infamy, it's more about me not wanting to give anyone else my infamy!</p><p>Infamy which decays is a nice idea which was agreed on by most people yet has never even been discussed as a possibility by the dev's. So imo if SoE aren't willing to invest any time into a better system, then please just remove it.</p></blockquote>With out titles pvp won't be ineteresting, + again it's shows how carefull and good u are with your class, and please don't tell me i am necro or conj or some healer type and i can't evac i have no track , yes u don't have track and u don't have evac but u can get evac from pvp city merchant, i run "Cat" totems 24/7 , u also can get Deity evac , tinkering evac how many evacs do u need?  if u running totem u can see if person in stealth or invis. U will say i have weak armor low health - yes u do and that's hwo class made - why do we see high titles cloth wearing classes? many cloth wearing classes have many control spells -- fear, root, mezz, stun stifle, learn to use it , if u can't and u find easy to play scout class roll one then. There is many items in game that help u in pvp to make it more easyer for your class to fight other classes. But yes Necro and Conj weaker compare to some other classes. </blockquote>... says the brigand?6. A clothy that gets jumped by a scout, have usually no choice but to fight. Any escape without using something that will put you into combat is usually futile. An attempt to evac on the other hand, does <i>not</i> put you into combat. Always wondered why that is.... </blockquote><p>I agree with everything you said bro, but let me add this. What's funny? <b>Evac doesn't put them in combat</b>, but Pact of Cheetah does. LOL which would be the Fury's only line of defense and getting away from a gank squad LOL.</p><p>Let's add a funny story. So one day I am farming a zone I am destroyer at the time. A Champion Wizard and Destroyer Defiler attempt to attack me. While I am fighting a named. I get them both about out of power, All the sudden they disappear, and im out of combat. I sit there wondering what happened. After about 10mins, I continue on. Well after about 65-70mins later It happens again, nearly to a "T". I send a tell to a friend of mine he explains that its a miracle.  So that being said I assume I am safe for 1hr. Since I know Champion Rawr wouldn't have the balls to put his infamy on the line in a fair fight. Oh but I didn't think of the alternative. They came back 5 deep and rolled me I lost my destroyer title. So now I am a slayer.</p><p>So your telling me after that, that means I am necessarily worse then any dest,champ. fury around? Screw that. It's crap like that that make fame absolutely POINTLESS.</p><p>Heck last night, me and 2 guildies( they were 30,32 at the time) I was 52, saw about 6 freeps coming(was helping them with a HQ) I disbanded, and regrouped. Figured they wouldnt attack. Oh but wait they did. and they almost died.. but wait a second, a second full group joins in and we end up going down. There was 3 other q's there, all were middle 30's going against  12 freeps 37-40 LOL. good times. But wait a second that took skill right? They deserved fame right? Heck they all should just be given master titles. Heck I wish all you people that cared about titles just got overseer to start game that way we'd never see you anywhere but in QH,EFP, or in a instance.</p></blockquote>Actually, there have been a great number of times I've evacced while being jumped, and landed in the evac location with no immunity.  Generally to die.  No, it's not a guarantee one way or the other.

spammy
01-11-2008, 07:24 PM
titles shouldnt be abled to be seen by people of the opposite faction. problem solved.people wont run from battles because of the threat of losing titles, because they wont know.hardcore title pvpers can still afk in there home city and show off there cool titles.

Darkor
01-11-2008, 07:30 PM
<cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Please please please remove titles or let me reset mine!</p><p>I have so much more fun when infamy is not an issue.</p><p>It's not so much about me maintaining infamy, it's more about me not wanting to give anyone else my infamy!</p><p>Infamy which decays is a nice idea which was agreed on by most people yet has never even been discussed as a possibility by the dev's. So imo if SoE aren't willing to invest any time into a better system, then please just remove it.</p></blockquote>With out titles pvp won't be ineteresting, + again it's shows how carefull and good u are with your class, and please don't tell me i am necro or conj or some healer type and i can't evac i have no track , yes u don't have track and u don't have evac but u can get evac from pvp city merchant, i run "Cat" totems 24/7 , u also can get Deity evac , tinkering evac how many evacs do u need?  if u running totem u can see if person in stealth or invis. U will say i have weak armor low health - yes u do and that's hwo class made - why do we see high titles cloth wearing classes? many cloth wearing classes have many control spells -- fear, root, mezz, stun stifle, learn to use it , if u can't and u find easy to play scout class roll one then. There is many items in game that help u in pvp to make it more easyer for your class to fight other classes. But yes Necro and Conj weaker compare to some other classes. </blockquote>... says the brigand?This post is so full of factual errors that it's just amazing.1. Fame is lost regardless of how unfair it was, or how outnumbered you were. You won't get away from a group without evac, unless you're very lucky with the circumstances or they are not paying attention at all. Scouts like you get a version of evac that is nearly uninterruptable, which makes it far easier to escape gank squads and avoid a fame hit. 2. Diety evac is only available for Freeport aligned players. It also gets expensive after a while, and I believe recast is 1 hour, compared to your 15 minute recast. 3. Escape lockets are also 1 hour recast, very easy to interrupt, takes you to your bindpoint (inconvinient), very expensive (100k status + 12g each) and lore. 4. A title says nothing about skill or how careful you are at playing your class. You get a decent one automatically by running in a ganksquad, and always evac if the odds are not entirely in your favor. It clearly favors classes with evac and track, as those will be able to move around far more freely.5. Everyone knows about the cat totems, but turning your camera around and spamming next hostile key is not exactly comparable to having a track window. Especially not when people are running around being the size of a jellybean due to bristlebane shrink, moppet shrink and cat/spider illusion, thus making targetting very difficult. 6. A clothy that gets jumped by a scout, have usually no choice but to fight. Any escape without using something that will put you into combat is usually futile. An attempt to evac on the other hand, does <i>not</i> put you into combat. Always wondered why that is.... 7. Resists are currently out of whack, and casting mez often require 3-5 attempts, even with all kinds of AA-enchancements. A brigand needs no more than 3 seconds to drop a clothy without manashield. 8. Deal with it or reroll is a pretty weak argument. If everyone did that, half the server population would be scouts.... wait......</blockquote>Couldnt have said it better. I have a T8 brigand and still completely agree

Vys
01-11-2008, 09:07 PM
<p>Couldn't agree more with Amphibia and the OP.</p><p>I feel that titles encourage a style of play that is somewhat detrimental to the already damaged notion of world PVP as it is, but that's simply my opinion.  As a Paladin with Dreadnaught, I've accumulated my title by rolling in a highly efficient group, and fighting relatively unfair fights against other groups.  Thing is, I don't want to be associated with the cloud/bell hoppers, the evaccers, the line-of-sight exploiters, and what have you.  I also would derive more pain from having the title taken away then pleasure from gaining it.  This is why I didn't like FFXI, because you could de-level.</p><p> I don't feel that others should be forced to lose their titles if they don't want to, but for those of us who don't care for it, allow us to either hide it, or set our fame to 0.</p><p>-V</p>

HerbertWalker
01-11-2008, 09:14 PM
<p>I love the title system.   I believe that we would have much less pvp without it - though it is probably true that we would have the same amount of <u>quality</u> pvp.</p><p>I don't care about my titles at all.   I just like the fact that lots of people are obsessed with it - who otherwise would have quit the game a long time ago.  When I take fame from a victim who cares about titles, it's a rush to know that I can effectively exert my dominance over that player and really get under his skin.   When I deny a gank group a kill by escaping, it's a rush because they learn that my escape tactics are superior to their kill tactics.    If I did not have the power to deny the attacker the satisfaction of harming my character, I would never run nor would I ever fight back in any very lopsided battles.  I would just stand and die while I /laugh and respawn.   They would gain very little, and they would stop wasting their time hunting me.</p><p>Since there are very little 'zone control' possibilities, and almost no communication with the enemy factions in EQ2, I feel that titles are all we have.   It is the only real incentive to pvp.    In EQ1, controlling a zone while boasting your dominance, challenging all comers over the /shout channel to hunt you down and try to camp your corpse, was an incentive - at least for me it was.   Not for most people I guess because there were not a whole ton of players doing that.</p><p>No one in EQ2 can stop me from accomplishing my goals.   In EQ1, a dedicated player had the ability and the incentive to shut down entire zones.   He would be rewarded for every kill, regardless if he just killed you 60 seconds ago.   That was the way you gained infamy in EQ1 - by being outright dominant.   Force the enemy to call in reinforcements if he wanted to accomplish anything.  "Infamy" meant having your name broadcast over the channels as one who needed to be stopped in order for the zone to be PvE viable for the evening.   There was a reason to post a group at chokepoints, and it was not about titles.   It was about preventing the enemy from invading and holding a contested zone.</p><p>I miss zone control, and I miss communication with the enemy.   Both concepts encouraged a much deeper level of server politics to thrive in EQ1.</p>

Zacarus
01-11-2008, 09:27 PM
<cite>Outkasted2006 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>everyone having way more AA then they should, each of them very much twinked out, some on vent</p></blockquote>Back up there a sec.  May I please ask how many AA's I *should* have?  If I have too many spent, should I just re-spec, then bank those which your rules don't permit?And regarding vent... please forgive me, but I'm missing your point on this one -- what is your point?

Zacarus
01-11-2008, 09:39 PM
Didn't read the thread to pick on you... but...<cite>Outkasted2006 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Let's add a funny story. So one day I am farming a zone I am destroyer at the time. A Champion Wizard and Destroyer Defiler attempt to attack me. While I am fighting a named. I get them both about out of power, All the sudden they disappear, and im out of combat. I sit there wondering what happened. After about 10mins, I continue on. Well after about 65-70mins later It happens again, nearly to a "T". I send a tell to a friend of mine he explains that its a miracle.  So that being said I assume I am safe for 1hr. Since I know Champion Rawr wouldn't have the balls to put his infamy on the line in a fair fight. Oh but I didn't think of the alternative. They came back 5 deep and rolled me I lost my destroyer title. So now I am a slayer.</blockquote>Let me get your story straight.  Two folks attacked you and you were beating them.  Using in-game mechanics, within the rules, they managed to get away from you.  Recognizing you were too tough for them, they brought additional firepower and killed you.Please help me --> where is the flaw in this?

HerbertWalker
01-11-2008, 09:42 PM
<p>The flaw is obvious.   He lost fame to a group of 5.</p>

Tatate
01-11-2008, 11:21 PM
A wizard and defiler jumped you while YOU were engaged with a name and YOU almost beat THEM? What were they? Grey? If not I'm just having a really hard time believing your story.

Outkasted2006
01-12-2008, 11:16 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>Didn't read the thread to pick on you... but...<cite>Outkasted2006 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Let's add a funny story. So one day I am farming a zone I am destroyer at the time. A Champion Wizard and Destroyer Defiler attempt to attack me. While I am fighting a named. I get them both about out of power, All the sudden they disappear, and im out of combat. I sit there wondering what happened. After about 10mins, I continue on. Well after about 65-70mins later It happens again, nearly to a "T". I send a tell to a friend of mine he explains that its a miracle.  So that being said I assume I am safe for 1hr. Since I know Champion Rawr wouldn't have the balls to put his infamy on the line in a fair fight. Oh but I didn't think of the alternative. They came back 5 deep and rolled me I lost my destroyer title. So now I am a slayer.</blockquote>Let me get your story straight.  Two folks attacked you and you were beating them.  Using in-game mechanics, within the rules, they managed to get away from you.  Recognizing you were too tough for them, they brought additional firepower and killed you.Please help me --> where is the flaw in this?</blockquote><p>Flaw? Not saying it's a flaw, in fact it's LOGICAL strategy, but it just goes to my point about fame whoring. If there was no titles, I am sure it wouldve gone to the end. I think the fact that ONLY the freep side has access to this as well is kind of bunk as well. Am I saying that it was unfair, or cheating? Nope, not at all.</p><p>And the fact that I killed lots of destroyers and champs while a dest , had a really good streak going at one point. Then I got fame hit by a higher bruiser. Then later a even con defiler. then that group of 5, I lose my title. Sorry I just dont get it. But the biggest problem was earlier.</p><p>Was on my no titled t3 illusi, (didnt do any t2 pvp, just pled him) then in DLW, killed some Dreadwarlock on a nightmare. (Yes I realize with the current system I won't get fame)  What do I get as a reward? some XP thats about it. But yet, if some hunter kills me(not titled) he gets fame. Sorry just don't get that logic. Oh, and I kill a hunter, I get fame, but I kill someone of HIGHER fame, I don't get fame? Sorry, I am just saying the rational doesnt make sense. I have played since day one on PVP. I do realize that's how its been since release, I am just saying maybe they should look at editing the fame system somehow. I know i'd be ok with removal too. But, if we most keep it, can it at least make some sense?</p>

Outkasted2006
01-12-2008, 11:18 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>A wizard and defiler jumped you while YOU were engaged with a name and YOU almost beat THEM? What were they? Grey? If not I'm just having a really hard time believing your story.</blockquote>I am a fury, quite twinked LOL. And pulling a named 10 lvls less then me that poses really no challenge. Wizard was blue, defiler was green. And you can believe what you want lol, I could care less.

Amphibia
01-22-2008, 10:16 PM
Interesting thread <a href="http://www.eq2flames.com/nagafen/18814-where-really-all-pvp.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">here</a> that shows exactly what the current title system leads to.

Lavenderboi
01-27-2008, 04:08 AM
<p>I would simply like the choice to show my title or not.</p>

Zheen
01-27-2008, 04:51 AM
<nods at Amphibia> I agree with the pink frog. I love the amount of intelligence that radiates in that thread.

Solvar
02-01-2008, 04:29 PM
I've thought about the fame thing and the whole fame-[Removed for Content] thing a bit. To me, it's just another goal or something to work towards. I'm not an uber pvper at all but it's cool to have a goal framework i there.Why would a system that made people NOT want to DIE be a bad thing? That's exactly what a good pvp game is trying to do.. make you not want to die... it should make you fear dying.. if it doesn't then the game is a little too artificial with people sacrificing their electronic bodies for any reason at all.With fame it makes people value their life more which is how a kill-sim should be. The goal of a good kill-sim should not be just to kill others.. it should be to save your own [Removed for Content] while you do it!

Vydar
02-01-2008, 04:35 PM
<cite>Lavenderboi wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I would simply like the choice to show my title or not.</p></blockquote>This would be, truly and utterly, preposterous. The whole point of fame, infamy, notoriety, is that EVERYONE knows you for now much slaughter and death you have rained upon your enemies.  This is like saying Billy the Kid or Jesse James would like to hide their infamous reputation for a little while?Basically, you'd like to hide it when you're out in the open so that people pass you up going "untitled noob" and then you can jump them and take fame from them, the whole time they didn't know you were even a threat to their title.  This means everyone turns their title off, and no one knows who is worth infamy, and then no one fights and everyone evacs from everyone.No thanks.

Lavenderboi
02-03-2008, 12:10 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lavenderboi wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I would simply like the choice to show my title or not.</p></blockquote><p>This would be, truly and utterly, preposterous. <span style="color: #ff0033;"><b>Well I stated my opinion, I guess it fair that you state yours.  Course I didn't flame anyone....</b></span>The whole point of fame, infamy, notoriety, is that EVERYONE knows you for now much slaughter and death you have rained upon your enemies.  This is like saying Billy the Kid or Jesse James would like to hide their infamous reputation for a little while?  <span style="color: #ff0000;"><b>Interesting comparison.</b> </span> <span style="color: #ff0000;"><b>I'm pretty sure that neither Billy nor Jesse had titles "floating" above their heads...and if they did, I'm guessing they wouldn't have liked it, what with people looking for them and all...</b></span>Basically, you'd like to hide it when you're out in the open so that people pass you up going "untitled noob" and then you can jump them and take fame from them, the whole time they didn't know you were even a threat to their title.  <b><span style="color: #ff0000;">WOW....so glad you are hear to tell me what I "really" mean, lol.  I'm a solo Templar.  I don't "jump" anyone.  I have no root, snare, stun, fear, or any other crowd control option, as of my current level.  I cannot cast anything but an emergency heal when running, so ANYONE can get away from me if they chose.</span></b>  <b><span style="color: #ff0000;">OH! and I'm a lvl 30 Hunter....not very impressive in my opinion.  Wanna try again to tell me why I don't want titles?  Or better yet, next time just ask me.</span></b></p><p>This means everyone turns their title off, and no one knows who is worth infamy, and then no one fights and everyone evacs from everyone.  <span style="color: #ff0000;"><b>Again you make blanket statements for everyone.</b></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><b>The reason I don't want titles is simple, because (for ME), not knowing is part of the fun.  Are they wearing Treasured, MC or Fabled gear?  I don't know.  Do they have Adept 1's or Masters?  I don't know.  Are they skilled in their profession or not?  I don't know.  For <span style="font-size: small;"><i><u>ME</u></i></span>, that is fun.  Thats the only reason I said I'd like the OPTION to turn off MY title.  I NEVER engage ANY Freeps in PvP, unless they engage me first.  I can (and have on MANY occasions), passed a green, untitled Freep, fighting a mob.  I pass right by them and continue on my way.  Why?  Because I hate that stupid title over my head.  I figure, that by never instigating a fight, combined with getting ganked by groups, plus losing the occasional 1 vs 1 fight, my title will remain low.  I miss out on a LOT of PVP, just because I dislike my title.  It's my money I pay every month, which allows me to post my opinion on the forums if I choose.  Just like it's your right to misinterpret my twleve word post. </b></span></p></blockquote>

-Arctura-
02-03-2008, 02:10 AM
<cite>Lavenderboi wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lavenderboi wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I would simply like the choice to show my title or not.</p></blockquote><p>This would be, truly and utterly, preposterous. <span style="color: #ff0033;"><b>Well I stated my opinion, I guess it fair that you state yours.  Course I didn't flame anyone....</b></span>The whole point of fame, infamy, notoriety, is that EVERYONE knows you for now much slaughter and death you have rained upon your enemies.  This is like saying Billy the Kid or Jesse James would like to hide their infamous reputation for a little while?  <span style="color: #ff0000;"><b>Interesting comparison.</b> </span> <span style="color: #ff0000;"><b>I'm pretty sure that neither Billy nor Jesse had titles "floating" above their heads...and if they did, I'm guessing they wouldn't have liked it, what with people looking for them and all...</b></span>Basically, you'd like to hide it when you're out in the open so that people pass you up going "untitled noob" and then you can jump them and take fame from them, the whole time they didn't know you were even a threat to their title.  <b><span style="color: #ff0000;">WOW....so glad you are hear to tell me what I "really" mean, lol.  I'm a solo Templar.  I don't "jump" anyone.  I have no root, snare, stun, fear, or any other crowd control option, as of my current level.  I cannot cast anything but an emergency heal when running, so ANYONE can get away from me if they chose.</span></b>  <b><span style="color: #ff0000;">OH! and I'm a lvl 30 Hunter....not very impressive in my opinion.  Wanna try again to tell me why I don't want titles?  Or better yet, next time just ask me.</span></b></p><p>This means everyone turns their title off, and no one knows who is worth infamy, and then no one fights and everyone evacs from everyone.  <span style="color: #ff0000;"><b>Again you make blanket statements for everyone.</b></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><b>The reason I don't want titles is simple, because (for ME), not knowing is part of the fun.  Are they wearing Treasured, MC or Fabled gear?  I don't know.  Do they have Adept 1's or Masters?  I don't know.  Are they skilled in their profession or not?  I don't know.  For <span style="font-size: small;"><i><u>ME</u></i></span>, that is fun.  Thats the only reason I said I'd like the OPTION to turn off MY title.  I NEVER engage ANY Freeps in PvP, unless they engage me first.  I can (and have on MANY occasions), passed a green, untitled Freep, fighting a mob.  I pass right by them and continue on my way.  Why?  Because I hate that stupid title over my head.  I figure, that by never instigating a fight, combined with getting ganked by groups, plus losing the occasional 1 vs 1 fight, my title will remain low.  I miss out on a LOT of PVP, just because I dislike my title.  It's my money I pay every month, which allows me to post my opinion on the forums if I choose.  Just like it's your right to misinterpret my twleve word post. </b></span></p></blockquote></blockquote>(( i think theres an option to turn off peoples names. that would hide the titles ^_^

fantaros7
02-03-2008, 12:38 PM
I m new to the game so bare with me....It seems to me that this title and K/D ratio system prevents pvp. I have evacced alot of times myself, dunno why...But one easy change to fix this in my opinion would be to change the title system a little while still keeping the basic principle of titles. Simply change the way people earn titles, make it like the mob killing titles.I.E. i kill 500 people i become slayer/ 1000 dreadnaught.In my eyes something like that would drive people to pvp more, lets say i see a full grp and i am solo, even if i kill only one of them they get one kill towards the next title, but so do i. If i kill 2 i actually gained something from that whole encounter.Also seems to me that pvp writs would compliment that system more than they will do the current.A newb's 2 cents, tear em appart <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Orthureon
02-03-2008, 03:43 PM
<p>A few things I think are the reason. Titles do promote running for some folks, others are just very good at the game. Otherwise personality wise, this is what I have observed.</p><p>Untitled people run from high titled people for the reason that the high title is probably in the best gear, twinked out etc.</p><p>Groups fight solos etc, because they happened upon them.</p><p>Groups seek out solos because they like easy infamy.</p><p>I really hate it when I am smashing some Dreads (or other high title) face in and then they run when they KNOW they are going to die. Me usually being a Slayer/Destroyer (I run into full groups, and hardly ever run when attacked etc) , meh I still get faction. Anyways it seems people run for the sake of not dying.</p><p>Also, someone said earlier greys shouldn't get anything from reds? That is silly once I reach around 50ish I attack reds solo.</p><p>Infamy decay, and a "fair kill" policy would help a lot. IE a group attacks a solo they get nothing, unless perhaps the solo is a like a red 30 levels higher etc. If a solo attacks a group and die they lose infamy as is. Reds a certain number of levels over a grey get epic immunities, aswell as the ability to get increased damage; 11-15 levels cons epic x2, 16-20 epic x3, 21+ epic x4. Increased hit rate, increased mit, increased damage, increased crit chance and everything else. This way if a deep red gets beaten they can't complain, other than lack of skill.</p>

Gimet
02-03-2008, 09:58 PM
<p>I disagree.</p><p>1. Add various ways to earn titles in PvP other than killing...For example, writs that allow titles as rewards. Kill 200 Hunters in order to gain HUnter titles. (The numbers would be tweaked)</p><p>2. Make the loss of the title EXTREME. It's a game, people shouldn't lose something they just gained so easily...it proves to aggravate more than add interest. We lose them way too easily.</p><p>3.Tweak fame a bit.</p><p>Any way you look at it...it's human nature to run whenever you're about to lose. I doubt removing titles will fix that much.</p><p>We run from mobs when they're about to kick our butts....and all we lose from them is armor damage of 10%. Tell me why you run from those mobs and wouldn't run from PvP battle sin which you lose way more.</p>

Sightless
02-03-2008, 10:00 PM
A Hunter - General should be able to take fame from a Master. That's the biggest problem with titles. IMO

sokil
02-04-2008, 12:27 AM
<p>I jumped to page 5 so sorry if this is agreeing with an already posted idea...</p><p>Let me turn off my title if I want JUST LIKE ALL MY OTHER TITLES. I did not pick this as part of my name, why should I be forced to keep it always in front of my name. If SOE wants to force me to name myself "xxx sochi" then please do it when I roll the toon. If I want to be "sochi, hunter of gnolls" then I should have that option.. not "xxx sochi hunter of gnolls". </p><p>Let people who want enjoy the game with pvp titles turned off do so and those that admire them keep them on. To me this makes sense. its a personal choice to have or not to have.</p><p>Sochi, Hunter of gnolls</p>