PDA

View Full Version : The Effective Necromancer PvP & PvE - AA's....etc...


PsychoticaZylum
01-04-2008, 06:20 PM
<p>I have an affinity for the necromancer class.  If the necromancer class was not an option in a game, well--I didn't play it.  In Diablo I played a man so I could be a necromancer.  In EQ1 I played a necromancer for 5 years.  In WoW, a necromancer(warlock) but shortly lived because it was too boring.  Now in EQ2 I again play a necromancer but this time in PvP on the Nagafen Server.</p><p>Over and over again I read about necromancers getting annihilated in PvP and in my sad little heart I keep hoping there's a way to change it...maybe I'm not casting my spells in the right order, maybe I'm not AA speced like I should be to maximize both PvP & PvE....maybe maybe maybe.</p><p>Every "maybe" option I look at seems utterly futile.</p><p>The class is very heavily pet reliant which necromancers have always been (and should be).  If you look at the bottom abilities of the Summoner & Necromancer AA lines EVERY single one of them benefits the pet (with the exception of lifeburn).  When playing PvE this set-up is fine but how can you do PvE solo content (which is what makes me enjoy the game most) when PvP we are so weak.  Weak PvP solo abilities = continual death cycle while PvE Solo.</p><p>Why are we weak?  (This has been stated so many times by others, I know)  It is because players are not stupid enough to attack our pets.</p><p>The only feasible AA set-up that I can conceive of for maximizing the necromancer's effectiveness in both PvP & PvE is to use the warrior pet for PvP and rogue pet for raid/group dps.</p><p>My main question is WHAT WOULD BE SO OVER POWERED ABOUT ALLOWING THE NECROMANCER TO COMMAND THEIR WARRIOR PET TO TAUNT in PvP? I do not think asking for that ability is too much.  I do not think it would break PvE content play.  Why?  Why is this so hard to fix and why wouldn't it solve the issue is what I want to know...more taunts on the necromancers warrior pet.</p><p>To even have any sort of chance in PvP while still remaining effective as a DPS class PvE (group/raid) the only AA route I can come up with is as follows.</p><p>***Note: sacrifices to rogue offensive abilities had to be made to allow for warrior offensive abilities to be maximized for pvp which is the only chance I can see that we would possibly have because of the warriors random stifles/roots/1 taunt/and clicky 1.7 sec knock back/stun/blur vision abilities.</p><p>***LVL 78 Necromancer***</p><p><b><u><span style="color: #3333ff;">Summoner Tree</span></u></b></p><ul><li>Possess Minion - 1</li></ul><p><u><span style="color: #33ffff;">Strength Line</span></u> (Rational - we are able to obtain an ability from this line that makes *US* stronger not just our pet - critical spell dmg)</p><ul><li>Theurgist Strength - 4</li><li>Animated Dagger - 4</li><li>Parrying - 4</li><li>Wild Channeling - 8 (allows for 11.7% ^ crit chance)</li><li>Implode - 0, I had this for awhile and decided I did not use it enough (what good are we with out a pet - really? Especially since u cannot use Reanimate to instantly resummon rogue after using Implode which would make it worth having) and it didn't always hit players in PvP so I got rid of it.</li></ul><p><u><span style="color: #33ccff;">Agility Line</span></u> (Rational - personally I feel the rogue pet is the most effective overall dps pet we have, max dmg for raid targets as well)  ***This line had to take hits from what I had it at previously, simply because I needed the warrior to even think of having a possible chance in PvP.***  As a side note I have tried pvp w/ rogue for many lvls (in fact almost all of them) and have come to the conclusion that the warrior will be more effective.</p><ul><li>Cabalist's Agility - 4</li><li>Shadow Step - 4 (wish this could be at 8 to help maximize PvE dps, but it cannot if you look at where/why I spent my other aa's.  The real important aspect is mainly the instant transport which u get anyway)</li><li>Cabalist's Cover - 4 (wish I could have more of this as well for to assist myself in PvP defensive...for whatever that's worth)</li><li>Minion's Zeal - 5 (again for obvious reasons I wish this could be at 8 but sacrifices had to be made)</li><li>Reanimate - 0 again sacrificed to attempt ^ PvP effectiveness w/ warrior pet</li></ul><p><u><span style="color: #33ccff;">Stamina Line</span></u> (Rational - Shockwave for PvP!)</p><ul><li>Preceptor's Stamina - 4</li><li>Shockwave - 8 (this is the only small crappy hope I can see as helpful in PvP....it's the only thing that I can see might help a *bit*)</li><li>0, in the rest because frankly the pet can tank well and the Wisdom line will assist him as will the Necromancer lines boost for him, I feel spending anymore points down this line helps 0.</li></ul><p><u><span style="color: #33ccff;">Wisdom Line</span></u> (Rational - ***I think this line is very important for the PvP necro because if you are using 2 different pets for PvP & PvE, well, this one boosts them both.)</p><ul><li>Animist's Wisdom - 4</li><li>Animist's Transfer - 4</li><li>Minion's Barrier - 4 (is enough because again the tank already does a good job of tanking! & there's a boost for him in the Necro line)</li><li>Minion's Uproar - 8 (***This is going to boost both your rogue's dps & your tank pet's ability to use those taunt/stifle/root abilities that *may* give us some sort of chance vs. PvP)</li><li>Animist's Bond - 0 this would not be helpful in PvP at all because no one is dumb enough to atk your pet...and again...tank pet already tanks well.</li></ul><p><u><span style="color: #33ccff;">Intelligence Line</span></u> (None, I am sorry to all of you who feel the mage is very useful; I just do not see it myself...I find the rogue w/ instant transport to parse dps as well/better in groups and on raids) If you like the mage pet you won't like my post I'm sure ha ha but, I love you caz you're a necromancer anyway so mage it up if that's what u love.</p><p>(70/70 spent)</p><p><b><u><span style="color: #3333ff;">Necromancer Tree</span></u></b></p><p><span style="color: #33ccff;"><u>Grave Calling Line</u> </span>(i.e. - pets, Rational - obviously we are a pet class I don't think I need to explain this line, hehe; the goal is to increase hordes of pets for ^ dps)</p><ul><li>Enhance:  Warrior Pet - 5 (spent simply to get requirements to gain Enhance: Undead Horde but hey it helps 10% dmg absorption for the warrior)</li><li>Enhance:  Shadow Pet - 5 (^^^rogue dps!)</li><li>Enhance:  Pack of Imps - 5 (eh, I guess at least we can cast it on almost every pulled mob....which sort of ^ overall dps)</li><li>Enhance: Undead Horde - 2 (I open with this spell directly after fear/mortality mark in PvP because hey while they are running away this is the longest lasting (dot?) and with 2 extra "dot" hits during the entire battle is helpful.</li><li>Ooze Crawler - 0 I don't see much benefit in having this pet when we have aa lines to make all of our other pets better....(yes I know it's "good" for debuffs but....with PvP aa's to spend I don't see that it's worth it)</li></ul><p><span style="color: #33ccff;"><u>Rotting Line</u> </span>(skipping across the tree to rotting line, Rational - quicker dps for quicker PvP kills - Lifeburn for uber nice ^^^ PvE group/raid dps!)</p><ul><li>Enhance:  Soul Rot: 5 (woot)</li><li>Enhance:  Bloodcoil: 5 (woot)</li><li>Enhance:  Pandemic: 5 (I don't use this spell very often but...hey it's required for lifeburn)</li><li>Enhance:  Devour Essence:  5 (/yawn)</li><li>Lifeburn:  DPS PvE must, can be nice for PvP group if u have a taunter!  (but personally I like to fly solo)</li></ul><p><u><span style="color: #33ccff;">Manipulations Line</span></u> (our only chance in PvP is get them off of us so this line only makes sense ....although there isn't much time to use it but, oh well.)</p><ul><li>Enhance:  Chains of Eternity: 5 (cool, maybe we can cast root before they are already hitting us...haha...right)</li><li>Enhance:  Necromantic Brand:  5 (yes this is nice.....the more our pets can proc this; the better chance our disease based spells have for hitting pvp or pve...either way it's win/win.)</li><li>Enhance:  Horror 5 (maybe one of our only saving grace in PvP....although it dispells w/ dmg we can use the reduced resist rates on fear so that we can cast Mortality Mark - DECREASEING their HP and ability to resist magic & INCREASEING our HP and ability to resist!) and after that we may be lucky enough to cast undead horde / other horde pets.</li><li>Enhance Mortality Mark:  5 (well if fear sticks this is a smart spell....and increasing the amount it "taps" from the enemy could be nothing but good for PvP)</li><li>Enhance Plot: 5 (same as root...it will be useful if we had the time in PvP to use it and as always in pvp quicker cast time = better)</li></ul><p><span style="color: #33ccff;"><u>Pacts Line</u> </span>(with 3 aa left why not give some PvE love? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" /></p><ul><li>Enhance:  Necrotic Reformation:  3!  (Bam, more useful pet heals for PvE)</li></ul><p>(70/70 spent)</p><p>These are my thoughts on making the PvP necro as effective as possible with what we are given for both maximizing our ability in PvP and maximizing DPS in PvE group/raid....we always rock no matter what in PvE solo so :p it doesn't even seem worth while to mention that (well unless we get pked....oh yah).</p><p>I don't know what this rant is about....I guess I'm just looking to see if anyone else thinks that *maybe* this set-up would help maximize the necromancer for PvP & PvE without jeopardizing either but rather having a nice balance of both.</p>

Darq
01-05-2008, 01:38 AM
Well no.a tankpet build w/o perceptors command?whats your strategy, melee?scout or mage, both are goodmage pet has los issues but more burst dpsscout pet can be revived instantly should you enounter a monk.scout pet can teleport to target (los issues tho)scout pet will break root pretty quick.knowing when to recall your pet is importantscout pet can take a hitmax out your evasive skills (Minion's Warding, Cabalist's Cover) and perceptors commandkos-lines4 4 4 0 44 4 4 0 44 8 8 0 82 6 0 0 00 1 0 0 0or4 4 4 0 4 4 4 4 0 48 8 4 0 8 2 6 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 distribute between parry ,crit chance and perceptors command depending on geareof-lines100% in rotting - 21pts5 root, 5 necromantic *, 1 dispel, 5 fear, 5 sta/wis debuff, 5 str/int debuff, 1 tainted heals - 28pts (afair dispel cost was lowered to 2pts)5 scout pet ,5 swarm- 10pts5 stun , 5 consumption - 10pts1 rezget the sta/wis debuff off asapand keep your distance if possiblego for agi wis sta gearsta for powerregen through lichagi for avoidanceand wis ofc for resistsdon't use lifeburn when in melee range. lifeburn is for if all else fails. keep casting lifedrain and quick spells while lifeburning.use fear and other cc spells to get out of melee range, should your pet get out of melee range > shadowstepuse "natural" cover vs ranged attacks

sprogn
01-05-2008, 06:22 AM
<p>If you are using fighter or scout, STAxx8x is a must.  Perceptors command is a PVP taunt with a 2s lock and 10s recast.</p><p>Personally I now play my conj with the mage pet for PVP.  My spec is STR for crits, then WIS endline and INT endline.</p><p>A bruiser dev fisted my pet with the WIS manashield on him, my pet took a measily 9% blip in power then nuked the crap outta him!</p><p>Takes some adjustment, but I found with the tank pet I was having to chain cast and pray he held a tiny bit of agro before I died.</p><p>With the mage pet, I just snare them and bounce around the screen casting at random until my mage pet finishes them off - which usually isn't long.</p>

Norrsken
01-05-2008, 09:01 AM
<cite>sprognak wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>If you are using fighter or scout, STAxx8x is a must.  Perceptors command is a PVP taunt with a 2s lock and 10s recast.</p><p>Personally I now play my conj with the mage pet for PVP.  My spec is STR for crits, then WIS endline and INT endline.</p><p>A bruiser dev fisted my pet with the WIS manashield on him, my pet took a measily 9% blip in power then nuked the crap outta him!</p><p>Takes some adjustment, but I found with the tank pet I was having to chain cast and pray he held a tiny bit of agro before I died.</p><p>With the mage pet, I just snare them and bounce around the screen casting at random until my mage pet finishes them off - which usually isn't long.</p></blockquote>I wish the necros had a viable snare, then we too could keep out of range.

sprogn
01-05-2008, 11:44 AM
<p>All necromancers want a Conjurer's ability to snare and stoneskin (frigid winds line).  All conjurers want a necromancers ability to fear and lifetap.</p><p>Bottom line is, both classes are royally screwed when it comes to defence.</p>

PsychoticaZylum
01-05-2008, 08:37 PM
<p>The description for Perceptor's Command seemed a bit confusing when relating it to PvP and I was not sure exactly how it would work.  It sounded like it gave the pets existing abilities more hate rather than giving him an extra taunt which is why I decided against using it.  I guess this isn't the best description for what it does then.  Thank you for the input I will be respecing then to include perceptor's command.  From the description it sounds like the tanks existing dmg just gives more hate....oh well nice.</p><p>I made this post to share my thoughts and to get some input so thanks, that is helpful if it works as an actual taunt rather than just additional hate....which would be ineffective in PvP.</p><p><b>Perceptor's Command </b></p><p>Your fighter pet absorbs some of the hate that would have been directed towards you. </p><ul><li>Causes a percentage Threat to transfer to target (pet) when in combat. </li><li>You must have a fighter minion in order to use this ability.</li></ul><p>According to...</p><p><a href="http://www.eq2daily.com/eq2wiki/Summoner_Tree" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.eq2daily.com/eq2wiki/Summoner_Tree</a></p>

Norrsken
01-05-2008, 08:46 PM
<cite>PsychoticaZylum wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>The description for Perceptor's Command seemed a bit confusing when relating it to PvP and I was not sure exactly how it would work.  It sounded like it gave the pets existing abilities more hate rather than giving him an extra taunt which is why I decided against using it.  I guess this isn't the best description for what it does then.  Thank you for the input I will be respecing then to include perceptor's command.  From the description it sounds like the tanks existing dmg just gives more hate....oh well nice.</p><p>I made this post to share my thoughts and to get some input so thanks, that is helpful if it works as an actual taunt rather than just additional hate....which would be ineffective in PvP.</p><p><b>Perceptor's Command </b></p><p>Your fighter pet absorbs some of the hate that would have been directed towards you. </p><ul><li>Causes a percentage Threat to transfer to target (pet) when in combat. </li><li>You must have a fighter minion in order to use this ability.</li></ul><p>According to...</p><p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.eq2daily.com/eq2wiki/Summoner_Tree" target="_blank">http://www.eq2daily.com/eq2wiki/Summoner_Tree</a></p></blockquote>Sounds like the old aa.the new one is a mini rescue. 1 + hate position, and a bunch of extra hate in pve. Or a 2 second target lock to the pet in pvp.

PsychoticaZylum
01-06-2008, 07:17 PM
<p>I noticed that putting more than 1 AA into this line does not increase it's durration in PvP.</p><p>For PvP purposes only...is there any point to putting more than 1 point into this ability?</p>

Norrsken
01-06-2008, 07:23 PM
<cite>PsychoticaZylum wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I noticed that putting more than 1 AA into this line does not increase it's durration in PvP.</p><p>For PvP purposes only...is there any point to putting more than 1 point into this ability?</p></blockquote>Not that I know.

sprogn
01-07-2008, 04:41 AM
<p>I usually put 8 points in it as when soloing it lets me have a pet rescue.  I can go nuts on DPS with no fear of my pet loosing agro.</p><p>For PVP, 1 point should suffice.  It can also be used while casting another spell which is particularly useful.  Just be sure your pet has the same name as you (takes the enemy a bit longer to figure out they were taunted).</p>

Norrsken
01-07-2008, 01:36 PM
<cite>sprognak wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I usually put 8 points in it as when soloing it lets me have a pet rescue.  I can go nuts on DPS with no fear of my pet loosing agro.</p><p>For PVP, 1 point should suffice.  It can also be used while casting another spell which is particularly useful.  Just be sure your pet has the same name as you (takes the enemy a bit longer to figure out they were taunted).</p></blockquote>Also make sure to use the skeleton group illusion and see to it that both you and the pet has it for some further confusion. Wont fool the experienced players, but still. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />