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View Full Version : Why I just quit EQ2 as a new player @ level 52.... ( not a QQ post ).


vdru
01-04-2008, 02:08 AM
First let's just say that I am no new MMORPG player, and I owe a debt to SOE for getting me in to MMORPGs with EQ1 way back in late 2000.So all due respect to SOE.I have played the large majority of major MMORPGs out there to there to the level cap.Here is a cap of my experiences:<b>EQ1 </b>66 Bard/51 Paladin ( quit a wee bit after the level range was increase to 70 )<b>DAoC </b>50 Skald + 2box 50 Healer ( loved this game to death! my friends all went to WoW )<b>LOTRO </b>50 Captain ( quit due to lack of content )<b>L2 </b>19 Fighter ( not very interesting )<b>WoW </b>70 Druid [<u><i>Account still active</i></u>]<b>EQ2 </b>52 Shadowknight [ <u><i>Account just canceled</i></u> ] [ On free month still ]My reason for starting up EQ2 was that I liked EQ1 and I figured It might be a nice game to play mixed in with a bit of PvP that in addition to the fact that  I hate WoWs community and figured that since EQ had a nice community leading up till the end of 2005 It should still be great, and it is! give and take the few e-[I cannot control my vocabulary] players that have invaded MMORPGs since the introduction of WoW.So I bought the 8/8 pack for (52 AUD) and started off the bat having no clue what to expect. As in all MMORPGs you must decide a class to play so I looked at them all and had an itch for a Shadowknight since I always wanted to play one. <b>At this point in time I decided to play on a PvP server because of 3 factors:</b><b>1.</b> I like PvP it is an essential part of any MMORPG these days. It adds more meaning to getting better gear and makes a better player out of the MMORPG.<b>2.</b> PvE gets boring after awhile<b>3. </b>I was good at PvP in DAoC, and I am excellent at PvP in WoWNow as I leveled up I liked the layout of the starting area, leveling wasn't 'hard', nor was it 'easy'... so to say that it wasn't anything like EQ1 but a very nicebalance between WoW and the EQ1 grind style. Grouping was fun. Quests had to be read to be figured out ( good point ). AAs very intriguing. <b>All in all the PvE aspect of the game up until level 52 was very nice and I appreciate going as far as I did for the </b><b>PvE side of things.</b><b>What let me down the most is the PvP side of things. </b>It is here that I hope to point at my pointers as to why a new player like myself ended up quiting so that SoE if they care to take note might take some pointers.Simply put EQ2 has bought a new genre of Player vrs PLayer to the table, I myself call it TvP and no we're not talking about Textured Vegetable Protein here!What you're dealing with is Twink vrs Player.<b>My expectations of the PvP in EQ2 was of that it would be awkward due to the game not been built for PvP, and that it would be more 'group' based due to not having BGs.Other then that I though it'd be quite enjoyable. </b>But in reality from tiers 1-2-3-4-6 I got smashed left right and center by twinks. It took me until I was <b>level 36 </b>to have my very first  'fair'fight where I even had chance of killing this other non-titled player. This 1v1 action I had was excellent fun, we fought and used our skills to counter each othersand in the end I died but about 1/5th hp. It was good! <b>this was the PvP I expected in EQ2! </b>I lost the majority of my money ( because running to the bank after ever single quest turn in for your precious 10s is just not viable ) to heavily twinkled out scoutsand wardens.I thought perhaps I just sucked at PvP, but then again I understand the concepts: stuns, heals, mana taps, CCing, taunting etc etc. I was doing everything right! Life taping, stunning to interpt spell casts, swaping out to shields when vrs melee etc etc. I was good at the PvP in DAoC as a Skald, and I am great at the PvP in WoW ( top 5 in Battlegrounds with a Feral Druid my onlyworry are Warlocks etc).So what's the problem you might ask? You're a new player they deserve to be better than you is another way of putting it. Sure, yes, you need some advantage to reward those players who have been around for awhile but does it have to be at the sacrifice of new players? The only thing that kept me leveling till 52 was the fact that it might change!As I level the playing field may even out! It might just be like this in the lower tiers only! Sadly not the case.I mentioned my experiences in the chat channels as I leveled and I was in other words told to just '[Removed for Content]', or 'go back to wow', or 'nooob' etc etcSome of the people would discuss it but not many... and upon inspecting their gear you could see why.One guy mentioned that if I wanted any chance at PvP aas a new player I should re-roll as a Warden.Another guy mentioned that the best way was to gather/mine/forest for rares to buy the tier armors and adepts. So I started doing that and managed to get money to buy a full set, which mind you took A LONG TIME and stopped me from leveling for a few days. I figured that this was kinda pointless because every tier I would have to stop for a week to gather uprares just to have a chance at PvP. <b>I felt like everything was a a sole struggle just not to get smashed by these twinks running around.</b>I decided that I had enough when a level 44 Warden killed me in a flash even though I was 52. What's the point of playing a game where you have no chance of having a fair fight?PvP rewards are 0 at lower levels so you can't PvP to gear up and compete, all you get is some title that you need to camp docks to get and or run around and swamp players 6v1 to get.All in all this game is <i><b>not pvp friendly</b></i> to new players and thus it has turned me away.I loved the PvE, but PvE without decent PvP is a dead rudder for me.I am hoping to open this as a discussion as to how to help out new players other then to tell them to [I cannot control my vocabulary], [Removed for Content], GO PLAY WOW, WHY DON'T YOU QUIT THEN, and REROLL WARDEN.Because frankly I don't want to<b> pay to play a game to get smashed by some twink</b> and told to sock it if I question the value of it.

Josgar
01-04-2008, 02:51 AM
I quit the pvp server myself at around 26. You still may want to try PVE on the rest of your free month just in case. I really dont know how they can stop twinking. They have level restrictions on armor, caps placed on achievements, armor is attuned, etc. I did find out that mailing money to myself or an alt whenever I saw a mailbox was a viable solution.I am saying my next phrase with sincerity and not arrogantly:I hope that you find a game that is better to your liking if PVE does not work out for you and if you do leave, make sure to check back in every few months to see if the devs have released any new policies to prevent issues in PvP.Good luck,-Josgar

Psych
01-04-2008, 07:12 AM
I have a 100% fool proof solution to twinking.Its called "caps"Lotsa games use them and indeed EQ2 already has lots of PVE caps in place on different things.Caps are great for balancing hard to balance parts of games.There for instance is an attack speed cap, in combat regen caps, etc. to make sure players cant stack certain abilities to ridiculous degrees. Currently the caps keep buffs and gear from reaching overpowered levels of certain attributes.For instance, an enchanter, a monk, and a bard all focusing attack speed increase on the right class with the right weapon would break things if there wasnt a cap on the attack speed.This is what currently breaks things. There isnt a cap on the druids pvp damage. They should never nuke for wizard damage, they should never hit for the kind of heavy melee crits that fighters/scouts chase after.By making a cap for each level and each basic part of combat you could fix everything even the way mages die in 5 seconds to everyone else.By capping things you could also tone down the most powerful classes. Caps could be done generally as in no attack may remove more than 5% of your opponents health and no heal can restore more than 10%.Those are just examples.Other caps can be put in place to help spell resists. A guarantee system like if your spell is resisted twice in a row the next spell you cast CAN NOT be resisted and has 100% chance to land.Or, for each resist a mage gets the next spell they cast can have a 5% damage increase or a 10% higher chance to land. The 10% chance to land could be cumulate so that 2 resists in a row makes the next spell 20% more likely to land.Yes the caps would take plenty of tweaking but the general way is faster than the specific way of looking at each tier and putting a cap on how much health a druid is allowed to have at each level from 10 to 80 and how much of each little attribute each class is allowed to have at each and every single level. This could make things PERFECTLY balanced. But would take way more than SOE would put into PVP since honestly it really is a PVE focused game. I hope they make a general balance system someday. Also, I know some will say that % caps would make big moves like Harm Touch and big heals like Lay of Hands pointless. It would only take 5 seconds to add a line of code to those spells which are long timer class defining abilities and allow them to heal 20% of your bar or allow HT to do up to 15% of someones bar at once.Really, there are tons of ways to balance the game and not directly nerf anyone. A blanket balance so nobody is singled out.Also yeah I understand that melee could hit for 5% of a bar much faster than mages could cast 20 spells! Thats alright. Make melee auto attacks have a cap of 1% of an opponents bar for instance. There are a million different possible solutions really it just takes some thinking and a lot of math.All in all, players who lie about their class and say it isnt very strong do a disservice to other players and the developers of the PVP end of the game and I blame that for a large part of what isnt yet balanced.

Swifthand
01-04-2008, 09:10 AM
<cite>vdruid wrote:</cite><blockquote><b>What let me down the most is the PvP side of things. </b>It is here that I hope to point at my pointers as to why a new player like myself ended up quiting so that SoE if they care to take note might take some pointers.Simply put EQ2 has bought a new genre of Player vrs PLayer to the table, I myself call it TvP and no we're not talking about Textured Vegetable Protein here!What you're dealing with is Twink vrs Player.<b>My expectations of the PvP in EQ2 was of that it would be awkward due to the game not been built for PvP, and that it would be more 'group' based due to not having BGs.Other then that I though it'd be quite enjoyable. </b>But in reality from tiers 1-2-3-4-6 I got smashed left right and center by twinks. It took me until I was <b>level 36 </b>to have my very first  'fair'fight where I even had chance of killing this other non-titled player. This 1v1 action I had was excellent fun, we fought and used our skills to counter each othersand in the end I died but about 1/5th hp. It was good! <b>this was the PvP I expected in EQ2! </b>I lost the majority of my money ( because running to the bank after ever single quest turn in for your precious 10s is just not viable ) to heavily twinkled out scoutsand wardens.</blockquote><p>I felt the same way you did when I suffered my first 10 or so defeats in pvp. It's funny because everytime I got completely annihilated, it was from scouts, inqui's, bruisers, druids that were lower level than me. See, I hate SOE's current system, but there's not a dang thing I can do aobut it escept for either make the adjustment or leave. I chose to make the adjustment. Now, I'm far from twinked out. My Fury is level 37 with only 33 aa's. My gear consists of some collection rewards, mostly treasured stuff ranging from level 32-37 with a couple legendary and one mastercrafted item. FAR FAR FROM BEING A TWINK. I just looked at my pvp kills vs deaths and I'm at around 60 kills with 36 deaths. Now, keep in mind I had close to 15 deaths before I recieved my first kill.</p><p>Anyway, I made some friends, got myself in a good guild that helped in making me some adept 3 spells, and I harvested as many rares as i could find to sell in exchange to buy decent gear for my level. After around level 20, I started to become better in pvp. And since 24 through 37, I havent died many times at all, even against fully twinked out scouts. </p><p>Here's where I think you made some mistakes. First of all, you chose to play a Tank as your first PVP character. SK's are only decent when u have HT up, especially if you have app 1-2 spells with crapola gear. U will NEVER win a fight like that. Personally, I think you should have inquired and did a little more research on the way pvp is done, instead of grinding away like you did. In the earlier levels, I would have tried to get into a guild that could have helped you with your adept 3 spells, and possibly given you some cash to buy treasured gear for your level. Secondly, now this would have been up to you and I didn't do this myself, but another option yo could have done was lock your character at say level 12-14ish and worked on doig quests to raise your aa before enabling combat exp again. Now, I didn't do this that much because i dont really believe in locking your character. It's a cheap cop out and people that like to lock just to gain an advantage in pvp are idiot gamers anyway. </p><p>It's sad to see someone quit because of how screwed and flawed the pvp system is. I learned to deal with it, but I hate it just as much as you do. It would be nice to see more average gamers who really want to play eq2 speak up more about how flawed the pvp system is. We shouldn't be forced to lock our characters and purchase plat online just to compete with the super twinked lockers. Level locking should be removed and I feel you should aonly be able to use 1 aa point per level. This will help make pvp more fair. Of course the ones who are locked and can kill almost anything at any given time will disagee and flame me for saying this, but IDK what sad pathetic  peon's say lol.</p>

-Arctura-
01-04-2008, 10:40 AM
(( roll a toon on Venekor, you will like it better.Less hardcore [Removed for Content] ZOMG joo SUXX0RS crowd here on Venny, we are nice! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />*ogre-hugs*

Eybietie
01-04-2008, 11:14 AM
someone already suggested a pve server to him.

Bloodfa
01-04-2008, 12:50 PM
It is a <u>lot</u> easier when you've got somebody watching your back, whether it's literally or figuratively.  As an old EQ1 player, yeah, it's different.  There's a bit of a learning curve from one to the other.  And it's much easier when grouped, and that's a painful pill for me to swallow, as I generally prefer soloing.  I've got a couple of questions for you, if you don't mind.  Are you in a guild?  How long, approximately, did it take you to hit 52?  If possible, could you post the character's name, or if you'd prefer to maintain anonymity, could you send it via PM?  I'm just looking at it from an "Are there shortcomings more experienced players could help you work around?" point of view.  I've got a T2 Shadowknight that I'm bringing over as a Paladin once I hit around level 20, and I've got to say, it's much more powerful than the older Paladin alt I tried a while back. 

Csky
01-04-2008, 12:56 PM
<p>my highest level on pvp server is level 29 pali and i understand what the op is saying.. it takes alot of work to be competetive in this game ive run around with combat exp disabled since level 10 because the AA is what it takes to be competetive..all MC and adept3+s which was a considerable amount of work</p><p>its hard being a noob and not knowing what tricks the enemies have..although learning pretty quick..have alot more deaths than kills</p><p>almost everyone around my level seems to be a stealth class so i have only seen PVP that was higher level than me and have yet to be attacked by someone my level..where are these people when i get same level???  O! they cant be found because of track ability (which doesnt belong on a PVP server)</p><p>imo the problem with the game is the stats/titles that the game was centered around which encourages people to roll easy mode classes with high survivability and take no risks at the expense of new and lower level players to earn thier kill points</p><p>i wish the game wasnt centered around "ganking" for stats but was more realistic and just allowed us to kill each other casualy as we came across across each other in our territory (on venekor btw)</p><p>i think that would encourage people to roll other classes other than easy mode classes that have the ability to pick and choose thier targets without taking risks  for thier death/kill ratio (which means nothing more than "i can kill greens while they are PVEing while hiding from any formidable PVP to look good on a website"</p><p>if they got rid of the stats it would improve PVP immensly and not make it a gankfest  the people that hang around farming low levels and new players wouldn't be an issue </p><p>whatever happened to PK and anti PK? they are now forced to aggressively PK for points instead of being allowed to defend other players and themselves and be more defensive instead of offensive and isnt realistic</p><p> Good God i just want to play the role of a pali and banish evil people in my travels i dont want to be forced to go around on a gankfest for stats and [I cannot control my vocabulary]title</p><p> and thats where the problem is imo</p>

Bloodfa
01-04-2008, 01:07 PM
Csky, everybody on the PvP forums has become aware of your stance on scouts.  Try something constructive here.  It's not about scouts.  In fact, the final fight for him was a loss to a green-con druid. 

Csky
01-04-2008, 01:27 PM
<p>"I lost the majority of my money ( because running to the bank after ever single quest turn in for your precious 10s is just not viable ) to heavily twinkled out scouts and wardens"</p><p> did you miss this part?</p><p>anyway the issues seem more AA related than gear related because the OP says was still on trial and level 52 and didnt say anything about AAson my very first char i didn't understand about making AAs with exp disabled till after level 20 </p>

Armironhead
01-04-2008, 02:03 PM
<cite>vdruid wrote:</cite><blockquote>First let's just say that I am no new MMORPG player, and I owe a debt to SOE for getting me in to MMORPGs with EQ1 way back in late 2000.So all due respect to SOE.I have played the large majority of major MMORPGs out there to there to the level cap.Here is a cap of my experiences:<b>EQ1 </b>66 Bard/51 Paladin ( quit a wee bit after the level range was increase to 70 )<b>DAoC </b>50 Skald + 2box 50 Healer ( loved this game to death! my friends all went to WoW )<b>LOTRO </b>50 Captain ( quit due to lack of content )<b>L2 </b>19 Fighter ( not very interesting )<b>WoW </b>70 Druid [<u><i>Account still active</i></u>]<b>EQ2 </b>52 Shadowknight [ <u><i>Account just canceled</i></u> ] [ On free month still ]My reason for starting up EQ2 was that I liked EQ1 and I figured It might be a nice game to play mixed in with a bit of PvP that in addition to the fact that  I hate WoWs community and figured that since EQ had a nice community leading up till the end of 2005 It should still be great, and it is! give and take the few e-[I cannot control my vocabulary] players that have invaded MMORPGs since the introduction of WoW.So I bought the 8/8 pack for (52 AUD) and started off the bat having no clue what to expect. As in all MMORPGs you must decide a class to play so I looked at them all and had an itch for a Shadowknight since I always wanted to play one. <b>At this point in time I decided to play on a PvP server because of 3 factors:</b><b>1.</b> I like PvP it is an essential part of any MMORPG these days. It adds more meaning to getting better gear and makes a better player out of the MMORPG.<b>2.</b> PvE gets boring after awhile<b>3. </b>I was good at PvP in DAoC, and I am excellent at PvP in WoWNow as I leveled up I liked the layout of the starting area, leveling wasn't 'hard', nor was it 'easy'... so to say that it wasn't anything like EQ1 but a very nicebalance between WoW and the EQ1 grind style. Grouping was fun. Quests had to be read to be figured out ( good point ). AAs very intriguing. <b>All in all the PvE aspect of the game up until level 52 was very nice and I appreciate going as far as I did for the </b><b>PvE side of things.</b><b>What let me down the most is the PvP side of things. </b>It is here that I hope to point at my pointers as to why a new player like myself ended up quiting so that SoE if they care to take note might take some pointers.Simply put EQ2 has bought a new genre of Player vrs PLayer to the table, I myself call it TvP and no we're not talking about Textured Vegetable Protein here!What you're dealing with is Twink vrs Player.<b>My expectations of the PvP in EQ2 was of that it would be awkward due to the game not been built for PvP, and that it would be more 'group' based due to not having BGs.Other then that I though it'd be quite enjoyable. </b>But in reality from tiers 1-2-3-4-6 I got smashed left right and center by twinks. It took me until I was <b>level 36 </b>to have my very first  'fair'fight where I even had chance of killing this other non-titled player. This 1v1 action I had was excellent fun, we fought and used our skills to counter each othersand in the end I died but about 1/5th hp. It was good! <b>this was the PvP I expected in EQ2! </b>I lost the majority of my money ( because running to the bank after ever single quest turn in for your precious 10s is just not viable ) to heavily twinkled out scoutsand wardens.I thought perhaps I just sucked at PvP, but then again I understand the concepts: stuns, heals, mana taps, CCing, taunting etc etc. I was doing everything right! Life taping, stunning to interpt spell casts, swaping out to shields when vrs melee etc etc. I was good at the PvP in DAoC as a Skald, and I am great at the PvP in WoW ( top 5 in Battlegrounds with a Feral Druid my onlyworry are Warlocks etc).So what's the problem you might ask? You're a new player they deserve to be better than you is another way of putting it. Sure, yes, you need some advantage to reward those players who have been around for awhile but does it have to be at the sacrifice of new players? The only thing that kept me leveling till 52 was the fact that it might change!As I level the playing field may even out! It might just be like this in the lower tiers only! Sadly not the case.I mentioned my experiences in the chat channels as I leveled and I was in other words told to just '[Removed for Content]', or 'go back to wow', or 'nooob' etc etcSome of the people would discuss it but not many... and upon inspecting their gear you could see why.One guy mentioned that if I wanted any chance at PvP aas a new player I should re-roll as a Warden.Another guy mentioned that the best way was to gather/mine/forest for rares to buy the tier armors and adepts. So I started doing that and managed to get money to buy a full set, which mind you took A LONG TIME and stopped me from leveling for a few days. I figured that this was kinda pointless because every tier I would have to stop for a week to gather uprares just to have a chance at PvP. <b>I felt like everything was a a sole struggle just not to get smashed by these twinks running around.</b>I decided that I had enough when a level 44 Warden killed me in a flash even though I was 52. What's the point of playing a game where you have no chance of having a fair fight?PvP rewards are 0 at lower levels so you can't PvP to gear up and compete, all you get is some title that you need to camp docks to get and or run around and swamp players 6v1 to get.All in all this game is <i><b>not pvp friendly</b></i> to new players and thus it has turned me away.I loved the PvE, but PvE without decent PvP is a dead rudder for me.I am hoping to open this as a discussion as to how to help out new players other then to tell them to [I cannot control my vocabulary], [Removed for Content], GO PLAY WOW, WHY DON'T YOU QUIT THEN, and REROLL WARDEN.Because frankly I don't want to<b> pay to play a game to get smashed by some twink</b> and told to sock it if I question the value of it.</blockquote><p>Not everybody's idea of what is pvp is the same.  personally I dont want a system where there are "fair" fights.  I want a system where I have an overwhelming advantage when I get into a fight.  Ultimately that is the point of open world pvp -- If I wanted to "duel" and have fair fights then it would be in the arena not the big outside world.</p><p>Anyway, the problem that the op is facing is that he is trying to power lvl and expecting to be good at every tier without taking the time to make himself good at that tier.  The game has a system in place to be good at pvp at any tier and he wants to buck the system.  Fine, do so.  But you cant complain about twinks merely because you feel the need to race through the tiers.</p><p>As for losing money -- really is it so hard to go to the bank?  IMO losing the few coins that you have in your pocket is such a non-issue.  Its not like your losing critical gear or can body loot.  How much more carebear should this game be?  No death penelty, no serious loot loss, no exp debt, what more should we add?</p><p>Clearly EQ2 is not pvp for the causal player who just wants to jump in and fight -- but there are plenty of games like that out there -- numerous first person shooters etc --  and we certainly don't need another one.  So IMO it would be a shame if SOE took eq2 and devolved it to the lowest common denominator just to satisfy players that dont want to put time into the game.</p>

FinalOrder
01-04-2008, 02:13 PM
<p>Dont quit EQ2. You want to have fun? Play any class you like, that seems fun to you. Re-start the class, go to the new kunark newbie zones, Timorous Deep, and start from there. For the first 20 levels, you get some of the best gear through quests and drops. As you level and pvp (and when you pvp, the easily obtainable gear you get is better than 80% of the other gear that your enemies will have if they havent done TD yet) you can harvest. Since you are doing the harvesting while doing other things, it wont bore you as much. </p><p>Shoot, I even level lock through the teens and twenties, you still gain MORE than enough exp from quests and pvp to keep yourself leveling consistently, all the while, you gain rares from harvests, and plenty of AA to significantly improve your character. Then, keep all those rares and any good drops, put them on broker and get some sells. Now, for T3, you should have plenty of money for mastercrafted and adept 3s, mabye even some nice adornments.</p><p>Keep leveling and questing, harvesting as you run around, pvping with good equipment.. T4.. no need to stop for a week, because you spent most of t3 gaining your stuff..</p><p>The secret is, to earn cash through the previous teir WHILE doing other things to pay for your new teir gear and spells. That way, you dont suffer from boredom, you have fun questing and killing mobs (if thats fun for you, it is for me depending on where I go) and PvPing with an edge because you do have good gear.</p><p>Just a tip.</p><p>RottkNagafen</p>

Sunderban
01-04-2008, 02:14 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>vdruid wrote:</cite><blockquote><b>What let me down the most is the PvP side of things. </b>It is here that I hope to point at my pointers as to why a new player like myself ended up quiting so that SoE if they care to take note might take some pointers.Simply put EQ2 has bought a new genre of Player vrs PLayer to the table, I myself call it TvP and no we're not talking about Textured Vegetable Protein here!What you're dealing with is Twink vrs Player.<b>My expectations of the PvP in EQ2 was of that it would be awkward due to the game not been built for PvP, and that it would be more 'group' based due to not having BGs.Other then that I though it'd be quite enjoyable. </b>But in reality from tiers 1-2-3-4-6 I got smashed left right and center by twinks. It took me until I was <b>level 36 </b>to have my very first  'fair'fight where I even had chance of killing this other non-titled player. This 1v1 action I had was excellent fun, we fought and used our skills to counter each othersand in the end I died but about 1/5th hp. It was good! <b>this was the PvP I expected in EQ2! </b>I lost the majority of my money ( because running to the bank after ever single quest turn in for your precious 10s is just not viable ) to heavily twinkled out scoutsand wardens.</blockquote><p>I felt the same way you did when I suffered my first 10 or so defeats in pvp. It's funny because everytime I got completely annihilated, it was from scouts, inqui's, bruisers, druids that were lower level than me. See, I hate SOE's current system, but there's not a dang thing I can do aobut it escept for either make the adjustment or leave. I chose to make the adjustment. Now, I'm far from twinked out. My Fury is level 37 with only 33 aa's. My gear consists of some collection rewards, mostly treasured stuff ranging from level 32-37 with a couple legendary and one mastercrafted item. FAR FAR FROM BEING A TWINK. I just looked at my pvp kills vs deaths and I'm at around 60 kills with 36 deaths. Now, keep in mind I had close to 15 deaths before I recieved my first kill.</p><p>Anyway, I made some friends, got myself in a good guild that helped in making me some adept 3 spells, and I harvested as many rares as i could find to sell in exchange to buy decent gear for my level. After around level 20, I started to become better in pvp. And since 24 through 37, I havent died many times at all, even against fully twinked out scouts. </p><p>Here's where I think you made some mistakes. First of all, you chose to play a Tank as your first PVP character. SK's are only decent when u have HT up, especially if you have app 1-2 spells with crapola gear. U will NEVER win a fight like that. Personally, I think you should have inquired and did a little more research on the way pvp is done, instead of grinding away like you did. In the earlier levels, I would have tried to get into a guild that could have helped you with your adept 3 spells, and possibly given you some cash to buy treasured gear for your level. Secondly, now this would have been up to you and I didn't do this myself, but another option yo could have done was lock your character at say level 12-14ish and worked on doig quests to raise your aa before enabling combat exp again. Now, <span style="color: #ff0000;">I didn't do this that much because i dont really believe in locking your character. It's a cheap cop out and people that like to lock just to gain an advantage in pvp are idiot gamers anyway. </span></p><p>It's sad to see someone quit because of how screwed and flawed the pvp system is. I learned to deal with it, but I hate it just as much as you do. It would be nice to see more average gamers who really want to play eq2 speak up more about how flawed the pvp system is. We shouldn't be forced to lock our characters and purchase plat online just to compete with the super twinked lockers. Level locking should be removed and I feel you should aonly be able to use 1 aa point per level. This will help make pvp more fair. Of course the ones who are locked and can kill almost anything at any given time will disagee and flame me for saying this, but IDK what sad pathetic  peon's say lol.</p></blockquote><p>no i would call them smart because they recognize how the system works and use it to their advantage to gain that edge. thats the formula to success if i'm not mistaken. in the sentance before that statement you even admit to doing just that. and if i'm not mistaken to the OP we now gain xp for pvp kills when locked so although the twinkers will still be around for some time they eventually will wash out of the system. </p><p>maybe you should reroll a new character. the thought of that might be hard to swallow as i hate regrinding characters myself but unfortunatelly you might have just joined the game at the wrong time. the low level pvp on nagafen has been pretty fun and exciting. i think i suck at pvp according to my success ratios but there are still plenty of fights iv'e won latelly that have made it enjoyable. </p><p>also soe has introduced fabled quality gear drops with RoK. i dont know whats its like as a Q but as a new player in TD my chaacter is very well equiped with quest loot. high 200's resists on everything from quest dropped armor.so they are doing something about it but it will take time for the changes to trickle down and saturate the server im sure. </p>

Bloodfa
01-04-2008, 02:23 PM
<cite>Csky wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>"I lost the majority of my money ( because running to the bank after ever single quest turn in for your precious 10s is just not viable ) to heavily twinkled out scouts and wardens"</p><p> did you miss this part?</p><p>anyway the issues seem more AA related than gear related because the OP says was still on trial and level 52 and didnt say anything about AAson my very first char i didn't understand about making AAs with exp disabled till after level 20 </p></blockquote><p>No, I didn't miss that part.  I bank all the time with all of my characters; it's needed.  And my quests pay me out in 15-20 gold a pop.  I mail it all to an alt.  Every single time.  Because every copper they take from me goes to feed them, and I'd rather not have it that way.  Stop trying to derail and troll, rather try to get this player to stay in the game.  </p><p>There's no way he's on a trial and 52.  Free month and he's already 52, that's why I asked how long it took him.  </p>

Zacarus
01-04-2008, 03:06 PM
Op, you are a veteran mmorpg player.  Thus you have learned not every game is suitable for every person's play style.  It sounds like WoW is more suited for you.  Why is that a big deal?EQ2 is really, really big, and it takes a really, really long time to learn the game.  Yes, you have to invest a lot of time if you wish to compete.  That's why WoW is more popular -- it takes less time to be competitive.SoE has made the game A LOT easier for new players, compared to when I activated my account in November, 2004.  Crafting and questing are WAY easier today.But still, the game is designed to be a challenge, especially on a PvP server.  Yes, you have to harvest, you have to craft, you have to grind for AA's, you have to invest your time.  As you've experienced, its a lot of fun to square off against an evenly matched opponent.  Its even more fun when you're both well equipped, because you have the chance to see if all that hard work you've invested will result in a win.  That's EQ2 at its core -- you have to invest time, in all aspects, to be good.You wrote a good post, and someone (Bloodfang, who is in a great, good-aligned guild) has offered to help.  So the community is reaching out.  Believe me, we want new players, but you have to know, its not going to be as easy as WoW.

Raznor2
01-04-2008, 05:30 PM
<p>"1.  I like PvP it is an essential part of any MMORPG these days.  It adds more meaning to getting better gear and makes a better player out of the MMORPG." </p><p>This line caught my eye out of your post vdruid.  You like that pvp adds meaning to getting better gear but your unhappy about losing to twinks.  Understand that you can't have the one without the other being the result.  If there is to be a reward for gearing as well as you can then the downside of that is, unestablished or poorly equipt players are going to be at a disadvantage.  Also, you haven't explained enough about your play style.  Do you solo often or group more?  Are you in a guild?  Did you take the time to aquire at least adept 3's and mastercrafted armor in each tier?  Did you take the time to work on AA's?  Did you make an effort to use totems, potions, clickables and tinkered items?  Did you get adornments in all your gear?  If you've grinded to 52 mostly solo and didn't put a good amount of effort into doing all these things it's not surprising that you would get picked off often.  Don't throw in the towel just yet, keep trying and don't give up on your sk, I've seen some real good ones beat equal level wardens.  When well geared, your a good match for anyone.  </p><p> ~Raithan, 80 bruiser Venekor</p>

Csky
01-04-2008, 06:17 PM
come to venekor and play a pali..leave the darkside :p

Bogenbroom123
01-04-2008, 06:23 PM
All I can say is, "Good riddance."  Another whiner off the server and out of the game.  The only thing that would suck about losing all the whiners in this game is that I'd be the only one left in the game.  Maybe that wouldn't be so bad after all.

Bloodfa
01-04-2008, 06:27 PM
Thank you for your canned response, Uberplayernumber692.  I had no idea we were in the presence of the only PvP'er in the game.

Sightless
01-04-2008, 06:29 PM
<cite>Csky wrote:</cite><blockquote>come to venekor and play a pali..leave the darkside :p</blockquote>No, go with Csky and join the darkside.

Tae
01-04-2008, 07:10 PM
Level 52 isn't high. If you level to 80, you will be able to grow in gear (via quests and also PvP!) and actually have a proper fighting chance, because you'll be at the final tier and can skill and gear yourself up. Guilds are also much easier to play with when you're high - since 90% of the stuff going on is based around the now capped characters most guilds have in their roster. Don't judge the game by the earlier level PvP. It's much better at high levels. It's a little more sparse (unfortunately) but still better.

DarkSign
01-04-2008, 07:22 PM
After coming back to EQ2 myself and being fresh to the game I really think you (the OP) should listen to the posts about "stopping to smell the roses." A lot of us coming from other games are conditioned to level as quickly as possible. But here's where EQ2 shines! Stop...get the gear you need...get the tinkered items...do what it takes to get the AAs. Yes, it means you wont rocket to 80 as quickly as humanly (or elvishly) possible...but stop and smell the roses! Explore and really learn all there is to know about your character.I'm far from knowing everything about my new characters, but Im excited that Im finally in a game where the process and the journey is more important than getting to the top level!Hang in there, man!

Sightless
01-04-2008, 07:27 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>Level 52 isn't high. If you level to 80, you will be able to grow in gear (via quests and also PvP!) and actually have a proper fighting chance, because you'll be at the final tier and can skill and gear yourself up.Guilds are also much easier to play with when you're high - since 90% of the stuff going on is based around the now capped characters most guilds have in their roster.Don't judge the game by the earlier level PvP. It's much better at high levels. It's a little more sparse (unfortunately) but still better.</blockquote>It's not as good as Taear says it is.. You have right now on Venekor maybe three or four groups of 80s who spent an unreal amount of time racing to 80, gearing up in the new instances in a few weeks. Now they're dominating the countless blues and greens not allowing them to even quest in Kylong Plains. What's worse is they sit and brag about it afterwards patting themselves on their backs.

FinalOrder
01-04-2008, 07:47 PM
<p>What the heck.. when hitting post reply, I was taken to a totally different thread that I already replied to.. grr.</p>

Shangu
01-04-2008, 09:52 PM
<p>The OP will not be missed.  Contradicts himself in his post.  He is a whiner.  Goodbye...can i have your 12 silver 17 copper?</p><p>lvl 52 and still clinging to the twink excuse for his inability to play the game.</p>

Unis_Bertox
01-05-2008, 01:32 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite> <blockquote><p>Anyway, the problem that the op is facing is that he is trying to power lvl and expecting to be good at every tier without taking the time to make himself good at that tier.  The game has a system in place to be good at pvp at any tier and he wants to buck the system.  Fine, do so.  But you cant complain about twinks merely because you feel the need to race through the tiers.</p></blockquote><p>Dead on. If you don't take time to harvest rares, tradeskill and AA then I don't feel sorry for the OP. I started from scratch on Nagafen and created two toons: One my main Warden and second my warlock alt who is a tailor. My 43 warden is a 39 sage so she can make the Adept3 spells and makes a great harvester with speed and root immunity. My warlock alt is a 34 tailor and has made a bundle from making T3 cloth and leather MC gear and nearly 3pp just from those hex dolls.  Tradeskill xp slows down A LOT at 30+ so it does get harder to maintain your tradeskill with xp level.</p><p>I struggled for a long time but once you get the rares and can make your own spells and armor or sell it to make pp it  makes all the difference in the world. When I dinged 42 I could afford to spend 1.5pp on a full suit of MC leather no problem. You have to learn what sells. Big items for me aside from the MC cloth and leather and hex dolls are the rare feyiron clusters which I've sold three for 1pp each. Also the advanced tailoring and advanced sage volumes sell for huge amounts at specific levels.</p><p>Anyway, I don't know howyou think it's different in WoW. My first toon there I got owned in the BGs because I couldn't afford jack. I was in greens and the twinks there destroyed peeps like me. Enchantments in WoW gives twinks an insane advantage especially melee twinks.  When I finally got my main to 70 and could make serious gold I could afford to twink a 29 warrior andit was just sick how easily I could mow through the newbs.</p>

vdru
01-05-2008, 01:40 AM
After reading all your posts, negative or positive. I guess this can be said in reply:The real only conclusion you can get from it is this game is built for people who want to 'dominate' and 'pwn' and 'all those pre-teen terms' other people.That's why SoE is allowing certain classes to dominate so hard. A large majority of it is the class making the player more than the player making the class anyhowotherwise there wouldn't be a huge in balance between class selection of Druids and Scouts vrs others. It is simple, those who are in the category of playing a Druids, or Scout do not want to hear how much is sucks to be any other class in the game because it removes 'credit' for their so-called skills. You don't think I could roll a Scout, or Warden and level up again and buy some plat on EBAY to get ADEPTS 3 and go out thereand kick butt? I very well could do that but then what is the point? again you're just driven to avoid been smashed by twinks. Like I said, this game is not new player user friendly due to twinking and if there was some system, or thought put in to protecting newer players you might find more people to play with.Oh and also <b>re: the power leveling through the tiers point</b> It <i>was </i>the holidays so I was hoping to level up to a decent level before work starts again.My gear at level 42 was all MC( level 42 gear) after farming like hell to get money to buy it. I just lacked the 30-40 plat needed to twink out my spells.<b>And a point to all those saying good riddance:</b>The overall point I am trying to make by starting this thread is to show why a 'perfectly' acceptable MMORPGer would quit EQ2. Personally I had to put alllllllllllot of perseverance in to getting to level 52. I ignored the twinking fact at first because I figured it was just a bunch of pre-teens with the WTFOWN you bug that WoW/GW introduced in to the MMORPG genre.I personally spoke to 1 other Shadowknight from Australia ( my home country ) who was asking me about all the PvP aspect, AA, leveling etc for him and his mate. I tried to tell him that I hope the PvP picks up later and coerce him in to staying but after a week or so he and his mate quit too.<b>The point of this thread is to show you why people don't want to come to the server you play on!If you want to keep the new players in a barrel like fish so you can get some title then it shows the grain of your integrity.Shangu </b>is a classic example of what I am talking about, has nothing to input in to the thread other then the responses I was getting from the twinked out scounts and wardens.Well mate, I know of 3 people who quit due to your attitude. I don't know of anyone who has joined because of it. The server is dead enough as it is already.I'm signing off now. Thanks for the replies! Hopefully some good has come from this thread.p.s I think the real issue here is that I don't have 10-20 hours per week to farm rares to buy adepts 3 for each tier/level because apparently that is the only way to survive.So I'm doing the most logical thing and taking my hand out of the fire and moving on.

vdru
01-05-2008, 02:02 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>It is a <u>lot</u> easier when you've got somebody watching your back, whether it's literally or figuratively.  As an old EQ1 player, yeah, it's different.  There's a bit of a learning curve from one to the other.  And it's much easier when grouped, and that's a painful pill for me to swallow, as I generally prefer soloing.  I've got a couple of questions for you, if you don't mind.  Are you in a guild?  How long, approximately, did it take you to hit 52?  If possible, could you post the character's name, or if you'd prefer to maintain anonymity, could you send it via PM?  I'm just looking at it from an "Are there shortcomings more experienced players could help you work around?" point of view.  I've got a T2 Shadowknight that I'm bringing over as a Paladin once I hit around level 20, and I've got to say, it's much more powerful than the older Paladin alt I tried a while back.  </blockquote>-- Yes I was in a guild.-- Took me approx 202 hours ( 8 days+ ) /played to get to 52 and I had 57 AAs-- I'll PM you my link. I hand not bought the level 52 armor since I'm only 10% in and had 5 plat saved which I was saving for Mana Sieve Master 1.

Darq
01-05-2008, 02:30 AM
sorry, but it's because of people like you (OP) the game has lost it's appealpeople who expect to get everything served on a silver platteryou made lvl52 in less than a monthi've been playing on pvp since april07 and i'm lvl 48 and this is my highest leveled char on this serveri've turned combatexp off at lvl10i've created supporting crafters and harvested and farmed my [Removed for Content] off so i could competei've done quests, camped stupid questmobsi've soloed my way to the slayer title, mind you i don't have any pvp gear equippedall in all i've invested alot of time into this and now you're saying you should be able to compete with someone like me?would you stand a chance against a fully MLed RR10 in daoc when you just hit 50?what about wow, do you stand a chance vs t2 t3 t4 idk players when you just hit 70?yes eq2 is a grinder, but you knew that when you bought a soe product, it's your own fault.i also canceled, but it's because of people like you and soe listening to people like youalso it's my own fault for believing soe would have learned from their mistakesalso a bit of advice, if you consider yourself a good pvper and expect to win and lose,it's much better to not expect to win that way your loss would've happened anyway and the win is even more sweet.have fun in wow , but if it was as good as you say why would you look for a different game?

Warr
01-05-2008, 03:40 AM
The way I see it, is like the old saying "You don't bring a knife to a gun fight."Now don't get me wrong, I am in no way an ubertwinker or whatever you wanna call it. I've got one character that fluctuates between being a Dreadnaught and Champion (lvl80) and the rest that i play are destroyers and slayers. Titles are stupid anyway and should be removed/changed/optional but of course thats a whole 'nother thread. I've got two level 80s and an abandoned 70, with various lower levels that are decently equiped for pvp and had never played an MMO in my life before creating that abandoned 70. If you're really into the pve and pvp aspect of the game, especially for a first time player, pace yourself with the levels. Yes this means locking combat XP, but don't stop questing. Doing so will still give you experience, money, and achievement, while giving you time to prepair yourself for your next level. This will allow you the time to harvest the rares you need for your next level's adept 3s, to get your mastercrafted armor made, and survive a few surprise attacks when that warden jumps you and you harmtouch them for a third of their life. Unless you're rolling a toon just to jump up to 80 as soon as possible to play the game in that one tier, there's no need to rush and you'll miss TONS of great content, which it seems you've only seen about a fifth of the content you could have seen if you're level 51 already at one month into the game.Why be a fourth as powerful as you could be? That would be like running into a battlefield with bluejeans, a tshirt, and a kitchen knife, when if you take the time to prepair, you could be carrying Excalibur and wearing chainmail. Its just not that smart.Anyways, thats my two cents. Hope you give it another chance sometime.Oh and reiterate what Darq said---------------------------------------<span class="postbody">i've turned combatexp off at lvl10i've created supporting crafters and harvested and farmed my [I cannot control my vocabulary] off so i could competei've done quests, camped stupid questmobsi've soloed my way to the slayer title, mind you i don't have any pvp gear equipped<b>all in all i've invested alot of time into this and now you're saying you should be able to compete with someone like me?-----------------------------------</b>Amen to that.</span>

novok
01-05-2008, 05:03 AM
Oh for crying out loud. Level 52 and using the "twink" excuse? The game is what it is, and a big part of it which you are obviously missing is knowing how to build your character. Seems that you want a "twitch" game. This ain't it. BTW to all those who complained about the lower tier twinks, here is one of the first examples of someone getting into the higher levels and still crying.

vdru
01-05-2008, 05:07 AM
^--- Warden, see... thinks  it's all okay.Told ya all the Wardens, Furys and Scouts get MAD when you say [I cannot control my vocabulary] broken in the game.And you wonder why EQ2 <b><i>failed</i></b>. I'm off to Warhammer Online anyhow, EQ2 Was a gap filler between WoW and Warhammer Online.I'll just wait out the X months till it comes. When it does, I'll get to play some 'real' PvP. Hope ya can join me <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" />tata for now.

Swifthand
01-05-2008, 05:17 AM
<cite>Darq wrote:</cite><blockquote>i've been playing on pvp since april07 and i'm lvl 48 and this is my highest leveled char on this serveri've turned combatexp off at lvl10i've created supporting crafters and harvested and farmed my [I cannot control my vocabulary] off so i could competei've done quests, camped stupid questmobsi've soloed my way to the slayer title, mind you i don't have any pvp gear equippedall in all i've invested alot of time into this and now you're saying you should be able to compete with someone like me?</blockquote><p>        IF I SEE ONE MORE PERSON CRYING A RIVER ON WHAT THEY HAD TO DO TO COMPETE IN PVP, I'M GONNA KILL SOMEONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!</p><p>This is what the OP is trying to say, but people like ^ this above either don't see the point, it's over their head, or their just plain stupid to notice it. The ones who want to play on a pvp server but cant due to how flawed the system is, try to come on here to explain why they quit and why soe is losing yet another 15 dollars a month customer because of a system that should have been changed or never implemented from DAY 1. I understand many different people have their own views on the "perfect pvp system" but everyone obviously cant be right and wrong.</p><p>Now, I understand some of you like the fella above me will be very upset if the rules and system suddenly changed and became easier and more fair with the new players on the server. Honestly, I probably would be too. If I spent 4-5 months busting my butt trying to make enough money to buy the best pvp items, all master spells, and reached maximum aa's for my level so I could compete in pvp, then see SOE suddenly change the system and give the new player the system they would prefer just so they weren't forced to go through the same aggravation I did, OF COURSE I'D BE UPSET AND CRY.  I'd even go as far as to say, "these noobs to pvp shouldn't be able to kill me since I spent 5 months perfecting my character for my tier!!!"  Honestly, I can understand why most of you who had to lock to survive would get pisssssed. BUT, even you have to admit that this system was flawed SINCE DAY 1!!!!  First of all, people shouldnt BE "FORCED TO DISABLE COMBAT EXPERIENCE" just to compete in pvp!!! This is the point were all trying to make. Level locking should NOT HAVE BEEN IMPLEMENTED IN THE FIRST PLACE!!! There needed to have been a perfect system set in place that would be fair to every person. The idiots in charge who decided it would be a GREAT IDEA to allow allocating aa's at level 10 shoudl be fired and burned alive for being dumb. Thats the most ridiculous idea I've ever seen implemented for pvp. Obviously this would cause most "smart" or shall we say "cheap" people to lock their character at a early level just to level up their aa's so they would be very formidable against anyone who "CHOSE NOT TO FOLLOW THE SAME ROUTE AS THEM" So, from the beginning the system was flawed. If I were running things, I probably wouldn't even have allowed AA points to be earned until at least level 30, DEFINITELY NOT LEVEL 10!!! If the community demanded this, then I may,, just may have sai, fine you can start gaining aa's at level 10, BUT YOU MAY ONLY RECIEVE 1 AA PER LEVEL UNTIL LEVEL 50 OR 60.. After that level, I'd allow basically what we have now, usable aa's 1.5x your current level.</p><p>Now, obviously u cant fix the twinking part. This is what makes pvp fun to many people. They get themselves a nice twink alt, put some amazing gear on them, and completely own noobs in pvp. I am actually for this and sine i'm paying 15 dollars a month, I'd like the opportunity to twink my characte the best way I could to help me in pvp. But, allowing level locking just so people could achieve maximum aa's to make their character super powerful beyond their level, has really done more damage than good in the pvp community. Now, maybe 40-50-100 people may disagree with me, but the majority of those who "HAVE A LIFE" Job, family, friends dont want to spend 60 hous a week grinding away aa's, pharming for money to buy all the super gear so they would have a crazy advantage over everyone else. I mean, let the twinking happen to an extent, but giving these powergamers another way to make themselves even more powerful has only hurt the pvp community. </p><p>Granted, you see more noobs everyday, but how many level 70-80 main characters do you see who actually play their highest level character full time??  HMMM, Barely any!!! They have all rolled super alts just to beat on all the noobs coming to the server because they have no one really to fight, except maybe the same 6-7 people they have come to know like their brother or sister!!!!</p><p> <span style="font-size: medium;">AND YOU SAME PEOPLE TELL US TO EITHER LOCK YOUR CHARACTER, DO WHAT I HAD TO DO, OR LEAVE?!?!?</span></p><p><span style="font-size: x-large;">HOW IS THIS SOLVING THE CURRENT PVP PROBLEM?!?!?!   IT'S NOT SOLVING ANYTHING, IT'S ONLY DESTROYING PVP EVEN MORE!!!!</span></p><p><span style="font-size: x-large;">THIS IS THE POINT THE OP IS TRYING TO MAKE, AND THE POINT I'VE SEEN OTHER PEOPLE TRY TO MAKE, BUT YOU 20-30 PEOPLE WITH YOUR HEAD STUCK SO FAR UP YOUR [Removed for Content], IS TO BLIND TO SEE!!!</span></p>

Adjorr
01-05-2008, 05:21 AM
seriously dude, i'd give this game another chance.i know all the people in good gear are intimidating but when it comes down to it these are players who spent months and months leveling with combat xp disabled, maxing out aa's and making sure they always had te spell upgrades and equipment they needed for thier levelyou cannot level to 51 in a month and expect to be pvp competative with players tat spent 7 or 8 months getting to that level, there characters are better thought out, geared up and equiped, and tey have much more pvp experience gained from months and months of working there way up slowly takign the time to really develop there chracter.this is not a power leveling game at all, i learned that after i reacehd high levels with my first tooon ever.it takes maximum effort to achieve a gquality character in this game and powerign through the levels is not the way to do it. higher level does not make u any better in this game at all, and you will get no enjoyment out of the higher levels unless you spent the time working on aa's during your lower levels its unavoidable especially on a pvp server.

Tae
01-05-2008, 10:29 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you're really into the pve and pvp aspect of the game, especially for a first time player, pace yourself with the levels. Yes this means locking combat XP, but don't stop questing. Doing so will still give you experience, money, and achievement, while giving you time to prepair yourself for your next level. This will allow you the time to harvest the rares you need for your next level's adept 3s, to get your mastercrafted armor made, and survive a few surprise attacks when that warden jumps you and you harmtouch them for a third of their life. <span class="postbody"></span></blockquote>You don't need to do this. Ever. Sure you'll die a bit, but you'll hit the higher tiers with more than enough achievement points. All you need to do is quest rather than grinding. Wasting time skilling up (which by the way the OP already said that he <i>did do</i>) just encourages more people to stick around in lower tiers and further reduces the population at the high end. And you won't miss squat. Alright because of the scarcity of groups you might not end up going into one or two of the dungeons, but the vast majority of the old world content is bloody awful anyway. I never locked and all I missed was Blackburrow.

Shangu
01-05-2008, 10:36 AM
<cite>vdruid wrote:</cite><blockquote>^--- Warden, see... thinks  it's all okay.Told ya all the Wardens, Furys and Scouts get MAD when you say [I cannot control my vocabulary] broken in the game.And you wonder why EQ2 <b><i>failed</i></b>. I'm off to Warhammer Online anyhow, EQ2 Was a gap filler between WoW and Warhammer Online.I'll just wait out the X months till it comes. When it does, I'll get to play some 'real' PvP. Hope ya can join me <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" width="15" height="15" />" />tata for now.</blockquote>EQ2 did not fail, you did.  I'm sure if Warhammer is not east enough for you, you will fail there also.

Darq
01-05-2008, 01:39 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Darq wrote:</cite><blockquote>i've been playing on pvp since april07 and i'm lvl 48 and this is my highest leveled char on this serveri've turned combatexp off at lvl10i've created supporting crafters and harvested and farmed my [I cannot control my vocabulary] off so i could competei've done quests, camped stupid questmobsi've soloed my way to the slayer title, mind you i don't have any pvp gear equippedall in all i've invested alot of time into this and now you're saying you should be able to compete with someone like me?</blockquote><p>        IF I SEE ONE MORE PERSON CRYING A RIVER ON WHAT THEY HAD TO DO TO COMPETE IN PVP, I'M GONNA KILL SOMEONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!</p><p>This is what the OP is trying to say, but people like ^ this above either don't see the point, it's over their head, or their just plain stupid to notice it. The ones who want to play on a pvp server but cant due to how flawed the system is, try to come on here to explain why they quit and why soe is losing yet another 15 dollars a month customer because of a system that should have been changed or never implemented from DAY 1. I understand many different people have their own views on the "perfect pvp system" but everyone obviously cant be right and wrong.</p><p>Now, I understand some of you like the fella above me will be very upset if the rules and system suddenly changed and became easier and more fair with the new players on the server. Honestly, I probably would be too. If I spent 4-5 months busting my butt trying to make enough money to buy the best pvp items, all master spells, and reached maximum aa's for my level so I could compete in pvp, then see SOE suddenly change the system and give the new player the system they would prefer just so they weren't forced to go through the same aggravation I did, OF COURSE I'D BE UPSET AND CRY.  I'd even go as far as to say, "these noobs to pvp shouldn't be able to kill me since I spent 5 months perfecting my character for my tier!!!"  Honestly, I can understand why most of you who had to lock to survive would get pisssssed. BUT, even you have to admit that this system was flawed SINCE DAY 1!!!!  First of all, people shouldnt BE "FORCED TO DISABLE COMBAT EXPERIENCE" just to compete in pvp!!! This is the point were all trying to make. Level locking should NOT HAVE BEEN IMPLEMENTED IN THE FIRST PLACE!!! There needed to have been a perfect system set in place that would be fair to every person. The idiots in charge who decided it would be a GREAT IDEA to allow allocating aa's at level 10 shoudl be fired and burned alive for being dumb. Thats the most ridiculous idea I've ever seen implemented for pvp. Obviously this would cause most "smart" or shall we say "cheap" people to lock their character at a early level just to level up their aa's so they would be very formidable against anyone who "CHOSE NOT TO FOLLOW THE SAME ROUTE AS THEM" So, from the beginning the system was flawed. If I were running things, I probably wouldn't even have allowed AA points to be earned until at least level 30, DEFINITELY NOT LEVEL 10!!! If the community demanded this, then I may,, just may have sai, fine you can start gaining aa's at level 10, BUT YOU MAY ONLY RECIEVE 1 AA PER LEVEL UNTIL LEVEL 50 OR 60.. After that level, I'd allow basically what we have now, usable aa's 1.5x your current level.</p><p>Now, obviously u cant fix the twinking part. This is what makes pvp fun to many people. They get themselves a nice twink alt, put some amazing gear on them, and completely own noobs in pvp. I am actually for this and sine i'm paying 15 dollars a month, I'd like the opportunity to twink my characte the best way I could to help me in pvp. But, allowing level locking just so people could achieve maximum aa's to make their character super powerful beyond their level, has really done more damage than good in the pvp community. Now, maybe 40-50-100 people may disagree with me, but the majority of those who "HAVE A LIFE" Job, family, friends dont want to spend 60 hous a week grinding away aa's, pharming for money to buy all the super gear so they would have a crazy advantage over everyone else. I mean, let the twinking happen to an extent, but giving these powergamers another way to make themselves even more powerful has only hurt the pvp community. </p><p>Granted, you see more noobs everyday, but how many level 70-80 main characters do you see who actually play their highest level character full time??  HMMM, Barely any!!! They have all rolled super alts just to beat on all the noobs coming to the server because they have no one really to fight, except maybe the same 6-7 people they have come to know like their brother or sister!!!!</p><p> <span style="font-size: medium;">AND YOU SAME PEOPLE TELL US TO EITHER LOCK YOUR CHARACTER, DO WHAT I HAD TO DO, OR LEAVE?!?!?</span></p><p><span style="font-size: x-large;">HOW IS THIS SOLVING THE CURRENT PVP PROBLEM?!?!?!   IT'S NOT SOLVING ANYTHING, IT'S ONLY DESTROYING PVP EVEN MORE!!!!</span></p><p><span style="font-size: x-large;">THIS IS THE POINT THE OP IS TRYING TO MAKE, AND THE POINT I'VE SEEN OTHER PEOPLE TRY TO MAKE, BUT YOU 20-30 PEOPLE WITH YOUR HEAD STUCK SO FAR UP YOUR [I cannot control my vocabulary], IS TO BLIND TO SEE!!!</span></p></blockquote>yeahyeah get a life blahblahi've got a life, if i wouldn't i'd be 80 and raiding so i could win.do you think big characters and all caps make your point more important?you can't have an egg-laying-wool-milk-sow it doesn't exist.i'm not crying my dear lushtra, i've stated i'll cancel when this pos goes live and so i did and now i replied to this lazy [Removed for Content] who wants everything without effortyou're the one crying "this game is too hard, it takes too long , i don't have a chance,nerf this nerf that waaah"i knew what to expect when joining a pvp server, a harsh environment, just like in any pvp game.you probably had a 70 on pve and joined thinking yeah i'm going to own all these nublets with my superior pve skills and were crying because you couldn'tif you can't take a beating pvp is not for you. period.

HerbertWalker
01-05-2008, 01:47 PM
<p>wow is dee dee dee.  eq2 is far more complex.</p><p>But hey, some prefer Duplo over Lego.</p>

Norrsken
01-05-2008, 02:45 PM
<cite>vdruid wrote:</cite><blockquote>^--- Warden, see... thinks  it's all okay.Told ya all the Wardens, Furys and Scouts get MAD when you say [I cannot control my vocabulary] broken in the game.And you wonder why EQ2 <b><i>failed</i></b>. I'm off to Warhammer Online anyhow, EQ2 Was a gap filler between WoW and Warhammer Online.I'll just wait out the X months till it comes. When it does, I'll get to play some 'real' PvP. Hope ya can join me <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" />tata for now.</blockquote>I find that they get way, way more mad when you kill them on "weak" classes.If you lose to scouts as a sk, you are doing something wrong. If you lose to greencon druids, again, YOU are doing something wrong.At lvl 59 I could handle 2 druids at a time as a sk. Or 2 scouts, and I did it plenty of times. In not much armor except some few pieces of legendary found on the broker and mastercrafted. And about 75% ad3s.SKs are a monster class in pvp once you get how to take on the other classes. But maybe eq2 isnt your kind of game, so, good luck finding the game of your tastes.

Zacarus
01-06-2008, 02:14 AM
<cite>vdruid wrote:</cite><blockquote>^--- Warden, see... thinks  it's all okay.Told ya all the Wardens, Furys and Scouts get MAD when you say [I cannot control my vocabulary] broken in the game.And you wonder why EQ2 <b><i>failed</i></b>. I'm off to Warhammer Online anyhow, EQ2 Was a gap filler between WoW and Warhammer Online.I'll just wait out the X months till it comes. When it does, I'll get to play some 'real' PvP. Hope ya can join me <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" />tata for now.</blockquote>I officially recant everything nice I said to this troll-Op.Here ya go dude:<a href="http://www.freepacman.org/welcome.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.freepacman.org/welcome.html</a>

Derrickr
01-06-2008, 02:54 AM
<p>I agree with Lushtra.</p><p> Some people are quick to bash newbs for wanting it easier yet they only roll twinks to get easy kills.</p><p>It's obvious there are a lot of people quiting because of the disparity of gear vets are able to give their alts.  And honestly nobody's right or wrong.  People that have put in the time and have the coin deserve to be able to deck their toons out in whatever they want.  On the other hand, someone new coming into the game <i>has </i>to be able to compete.</p><p>The problem is the vets are acting like jerks and aren't willing to compromise to make it easier for anyone but themselves.  We as PvPers already have a bad rep for being a-holes and a lot of you prove that point.</p><p>The same people that are pushing newbs away are going to be the same people [I cannot control my vocabulary] about server populations.  There are new PvP games coming out soon and our servers are going to take a hit.  Might as well welcome as many new people as we can to soften the blow.</p>

rvc
01-06-2008, 09:14 AM
<p>  I love how the common theme is people twink to farm newbs.  I came over from eq1 anyone thats played EQ in any incarnation knows its all about gear and aa so i joined up knowing get the best gear i can get the most aa i can thats what makes a mmorpg a mmorpg pvp or pve IMO.  What drove me to twink my toon and im willing to bet it drove most people to twink thier toons out at each level was the desire to be competitive with the other toons out there, twinks included.  Im sure there was that grp of folks that only did it for griefing purposes but im willing to bet the majority of people did it to be highly competitve against other highly competitve toons, nobody wants to lose.   </p><p>   The thing about the game nowadays and i can feel the pain of a guy that has the family or work etc.,  Is before the change to pvp exp, it was fairly easy to level a toon up to lvl 24ish with maxx aa 24 x 1.5lvl = 36 aa.  So by lvl 24 if you locked and worked aa a guy could pvp to his hearts content, work aa on other nights, or farm nodes and fairly easily get to a point of being competitve with other toons in his lvl range.  Nowadays  if your one that joined the server to pvp and thats primarily what your into,  your basically choosing to have an inferior toon right on up into T8 where you can start focusing on grinding out your 100plus aa and gearing up for that tier the new LOCK.</p><p>  Id have to try it out myself but id venture to say if you pvp at all in T1, T2, T3 your gonna have a real tuff time catching up with other folks that didnt, and worked aa and farmed for gear early on.  Its a struggle keeping up on AA and gear for me now in T4 and still pvp and i was looking fairly decent before the change, max aa for my lvl etc. and decent gear. </p><p>  The exp change just created a huge frustrating time sink for new players who want to pvp alot and also want to be competitive while doing it.  The only real option now for a new player thats into pvp and alot of it is hurrry up get your butt to T8, expect alot of frustration along the way as you wont be able to hold your own, then you can get owned  and farmed by the T8 toons while you work out your 100+aa and gear up so you can finally pvp competetively. </p>

Shangu
01-06-2008, 10:34 AM
<cite>Derrickray wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I agree with Lushtra.</p><p> Some people are quick to bash newbs for wanting it easier yet they only roll twinks to get easy kills.</p><p>It's obvious there are a lot of people quiting because of the disparity of gear vets are able to give their alts.  And honestly nobody's right or wrong.  People that have put in the time and have the coin deserve to be able to deck their toons out in whatever they want.  On the other hand, someone new coming into the game <i>has </i>to be able to compete.</p><p>The problem is the vets are acting like jerks and aren't willing to compromise to make it easier for anyone but themselves.  We as PvPers already have a bad rep for being a-holes and a lot of you prove that point.</p><p>The same people that are pushing newbs away are going to be the same people [I cannot control my vocabulary] about server populations.  There are new PvP games coming out soon and our servers are going to take a hit.  Might as well welcome as many new people as we can to soften the blow.</p></blockquote><p>The guy says he is lvl 52.  LVL 52!!!!</p><p>Are you serious?  LVL 52 is still oblivious as to how to close the gear gap?  Still uses the "twink" excuse?  I might agree if this thread was about some dude who just started the game and couldn't quite understand why he's trying to complete lvl 10 to 15 quests and keeps getting killed but this guy is LVL 52!!!!</p><p>At what tier do you stop whining about Twinks?  OP, please do let the door hit you on the way out.</p>

diamondsR4ever
01-06-2008, 11:18 AM
<p>ROFL... what a baby!</p><p> PVP isnt friendly... the point is to kill the enermy. What next someone posting raid mobs use a nasty aoe which kills us, not friendly at all...</p><p>As a player who ran a twink lokcing guild you must hate me... answer is simple, join a guild, get help and join in on the war against the other faction.</p><p>New players scared off? LOL wait to you get 80 and everyone twinked in 2 year raid gear in x4 who know their class <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Atelast at lower levels with less hotkeys new players had a chance ROFFFFFFFFFFFLLLLLLLLLL.</p><p> When people say go play pve, wow etc they not being rude PVP thats player trying to MURDER another player isn't nice. Ganking the same player over and over again within 30 mins is anti-social somehting I oppose and deserves a complint, but compling PVP is to tough is a JOKE! Mobs dont think, players do....</p><p>[Removed for Content] THIS POST MAKES ME LAUGH...... I want to be on a PVP server but I dont want to be killed by anyone who more powerful than me hahahahahaha.</p><p>Ragamuffin </p>

Derrickr
01-06-2008, 02:14 PM
<cite>diamondsR4ever wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>ROFL... what a baby!</p><p> PVP isnt friendly... the point is to kill the enermy. What next someone posting raid mobs use a nasty aoe which kills us, not friendly at all...</p><p>As a player who ran a twink lokcing guild you must hate me... answer is simple, join a guild, get help and join in on the war against the other faction.</p><p>New players scared off? <b>LOL wait to you get 80 and everyone twinked in 2 year raid gear in x4 who know their class</b> <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /> Atelast at lower levels with less hotkeys new players had a chance ROFFFFFFFFFFFLLLLLLLLLL.</p><p> When people say go play pve, wow etc they not being rude PVP thats player trying to MURDER another player isn't nice. Ganking the same player over and over again within 30 mins is anti-social somehting I oppose and deserves a complint, but compling PVP is to tough is a JOKE! Mobs dont think, players do....</p><p>[I cannot control my vocabulary] THIS POST MAKES ME LAUGH...... I want to be on a PVP server but I dont want to be killed by anyone who more powerful than me hahahahahaha.</p><p>Ragamuffin </p></blockquote><p>If someone who gets to 80 still doesn't have the coin or know-how to compete by that time that's on them.  This is for people who are new coming into the game and are being killed by twinks as soon as they ding 10.</p><p>It's like signing up for a karate class and the instructor makes you fight a third degree black belt before you've learned anything.  Then all the other black belts laugh at you and tell you it's suppose to be hard.</p>

Svetty
01-06-2008, 03:35 PM
<cite>Derrickray wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>If someone who gets to 80 still doesn't have the coin or know-how to compete by that time that's on them.  This is for people who are new coming into the game and are being killed by twinks as soon as they ding 10.</p><p>It's like signing up for a karate class and the instructor makes you fight a third degree black belt before you've learned anything.  Then all the other black belts laugh at you and tell you it's suppose to be hard.</p></blockquote>The problem is the OP had gotten to level 52.  I can completely understand someone who is level 10 or even level 20 having these problems and wanting to quit but if you have gotten to level 52, realistically level 30, and still don't know how to play your character and how to be competitive there is a problem.  What you need to do to be competitive in PvP in this game is not hard to figure out.  You just have to have a little patience and take the time to make yourself that way.If he chose to try and rush to the finish line that is his choice but he cannot blame the community for his shortcomings. 

orgchem
01-06-2008, 04:55 PM
I can't comment on PvP in this game, but in WoW, all it is is twinks.  You really can't have fun at any of the battlegrounds because everything is so gear dependent.

Derrickr
01-06-2008, 05:53 PM
<cite>Svetty wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Derrickray wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>If someone who gets to 80 still doesn't have the coin or know-how to compete by that time that's on them.  This is for people who are new coming into the game and are being killed by twinks as soon as they ding 10.</p><p>It's like signing up for a karate class and the instructor makes you fight a third degree black belt before you've learned anything.  Then all the other black belts laugh at you and tell you it's suppose to be hard.</p></blockquote>The problem is the OP had gotten to level 52.  I can completely understand someone who is level 10 or even level 20 having these problems and wanting to quit but if you have gotten to level 52, realistically level 30, and still don't know how to play your character and how to be competitive there is a problem.  What you need to do to be competitive in PvP in this game is not hard to figure out.  You just have to have a little patience and take the time to make yourself that way.If he chose to try and rush to the finish line that is his choice but he cannot blame the community for his shortcomings.  </blockquote>You're right.  At 52 he's in a position to at least fund an alt.  I was responding to some of the others who feel like everything is fine the way it is.

Dojac
01-06-2008, 06:05 PM
<cite>vdruid wrote:</cite><blockquote>First let's just say that I am no new MMORPG player, and I owe a debt to SOE for getting me in to MMORPGs with EQ1 way back in late 2000.So all due respect to SOE.I have played the large majority of major MMORPGs out there to there to the level cap.Here is a cap of my experiences:<b>EQ1 </b>66 Bard/51 Paladin ( quit a wee bit after the level range was increase to 70 )<b>DAoC </b>50 Skald + 2box 50 Healer ( loved this game to death! my friends all went to WoW )<b>LOTRO </b>50 Captain ( quit due to lack of content )<b>L2 </b>19 Fighter ( not very interesting )<b>WoW </b>70 Druid [<u><i>Account still active</i></u>]<b>EQ2 </b>52 Shadowknight [ <u><i>Account just canceled</i></u> ] [ On free month still ]My reason for starting up EQ2 was that I liked EQ1 and I figured It might be a nice game to play mixed in with a bit of PvP that in addition to the fact that  I hate WoWs community and figured that since EQ had a nice community leading up till the end of 2005 It should still be great, and it is! give and take the few e-[I cannot control my vocabulary] players that have invaded MMORPGs since the introduction of WoW.So I bought the 8/8 pack for (52 AUD) and started off the bat having no clue what to expect. As in all MMORPGs you must decide a class to play so I looked at them all and had an itch for a Shadowknight since I always wanted to play one. <b>At this point in time I decided to play on a PvP server because of 3 factors:</b><b>1.</b> I like PvP it is an essential part of any MMORPG these days. It adds more meaning to getting better gear and makes a better player out of the MMORPG.<b>2.</b> PvE gets boring after awhile<b>3. </b>I was good at PvP in DAoC, and I am excellent at PvP in WoWNow as I leveled up I liked the layout of the starting area, leveling wasn't 'hard', nor was it 'easy'... so to say that it wasn't anything like EQ1 but a very nicebalance between WoW and the EQ1 grind style. Grouping was fun. Quests had to be read to be figured out ( good point ). AAs very intriguing. <b>All in all the PvE aspect of the game up until level 52 was very nice and I appreciate going as far as I did for the </b><b>PvE side of things.</b><b>What let me down the most is the PvP side of things. </b>It is here that I hope to point at my pointers as to why a new player like myself ended up quiting so that SoE if they care to take note might take some pointers.Simply put EQ2 has bought a new genre of Player vrs PLayer to the table, I myself call it TvP and no we're not talking about Textured Vegetable Protein here!What you're dealing with is Twink vrs Player.<b>My expectations of the PvP in EQ2 was of that it would be awkward due to the game not been built for PvP, and that it would be more 'group' based due to not having BGs.Other then that I though it'd be quite enjoyable. </b>But in reality from tiers 1-2-3-4-6 I got smashed left right and center by twinks. It took me until I was <b>level 36 </b>to have my very first  'fair'fight where I even had chance of killing this other non-titled player. This 1v1 action I had was excellent fun, we fought and used our skills to counter each othersand in the end I died but about 1/5th hp. It was good! <b>this was the PvP I expected in EQ2! </b>I lost the majority of my money ( because running to the bank after ever single quest turn in for your precious 10s is just not viable ) to heavily twinkled out scoutsand wardens.I thought perhaps I just sucked at PvP, but then again I understand the concepts: stuns, heals, mana taps, CCing, taunting etc etc. I was doing everything right! Life taping, stunning to interpt spell casts, swaping out to shields when vrs melee etc etc. I was good at the PvP in DAoC as a Skald, and I am great at the PvP in WoW ( top 5 in Battlegrounds with a Feral Druid my onlyworry are Warlocks etc).So what's the problem you might ask? You're a new player they deserve to be better than you is another way of putting it. Sure, yes, you need some advantage to reward those players who have been around for awhile but does it have to be at the sacrifice of new players? The only thing that kept me leveling till 52 was the fact that it might change!As I level the playing field may even out! It might just be like this in the lower tiers only! Sadly not the case.I mentioned my experiences in the chat channels as I leveled and I was in other words told to just '[Removed for Content]', or 'go back to wow', or 'nooob' etc etcSome of the people would discuss it but not many... and upon inspecting their gear you could see why.One guy mentioned that if I wanted any chance at PvP aas a new player I should re-roll as a Warden.Another guy mentioned that the best way was to gather/mine/forest for rares to buy the tier armors and adepts. So I started doing that and managed to get money to buy a full set, which mind you took A LONG TIME and stopped me from leveling for a few days. I figured that this was kinda pointless because every tier I would have to stop for a week to gather uprares just to have a chance at PvP. <b>I felt like everything was a a sole struggle just not to get smashed by these twinks running around.</b>I decided that I had enough when a level 44 Warden killed me in a flash even though I was 52. What's the point of playing a game where you have no chance of having a fair fight?PvP rewards are 0 at lower levels so you can't PvP to gear up and compete, all you get is some title that you need to camp docks to get and or run around and swamp players 6v1 to get.All in all this game is <i><b>not pvp friendly</b></i> to new players and thus it has turned me away.I loved the PvE, but PvE without decent PvP is a dead rudder for me.I am hoping to open this as a discussion as to how to help out new players other then to tell them to [I cannot control my vocabulary], [Removed for Content], GO PLAY WOW, WHY DON'T YOU QUIT THEN, and REROLL WARDEN.Because frankly I don't want to<b> pay to play a game to get smashed by some twink</b> and told to sock it if I question the value of it.</blockquote><p>/cry /whimper /getoverit</p><p> Of course you can shout about how gear should not have that kind of effect on the game and you can whine about master 1s being too big a jump from apprentice but the truth to all of this is that it lends depth to the game.  There is no way a 44 (any class) would have killed my 52 Illy (IMO toughest class to PvP with) and I'm no where near twinked.  You want to know what really sperarates this game from other MMOs is the depth of knowledge you need to remain competitive.  Anyone who goes out and gets the gear and gets the spell is simply trying to maitain an edge.  PvP is somewhat of an attempt to simulate war between these two factions.  People fighting a war are not going to pull punches or make sure they stay nice and even with their competitor.  This game isn't about all bein nice and fair to the competition.  Its about smashing them with everything you've got.  Its about taking every advantage afforded to you.  You have the same access to that gear and those spells that all those twinks have.  The only difference is that they've figured out how to get em, you haven't.  Thats the problem with this whole twink vs noob argument.  In the end we only difference between the two is their knowledge and understanding of the game.  Twinks know how to get the gear and be competitive noobs don't.  The ones who whine about making it even are simply asking SOE to do it for em.  The ones who up and leave are simply choosing not to put in the time all the twinks have.  I leveled a ranger straight to 70 (Pre ROK) got my [Removed for Content] handed to me repeatedly by ppl who knew what they were doing.  Did I complain?  No.  Did I care? Not really.  Did I understand why?  Somewhat.  Did I learn from it?  Absolutely, my next too kicked [Removed for Content].  I started kickin [Removed for Content] not bein the one kicked.  I LEARNED HOW TO PvP.  This is probably why I disliked GU41's nerfing of PvP xp lock so much.  It created a nice darwinian system of weeding out the people who really didn't want to learn.  It kept me from dealing with the people who would just get frustrated and give up.  Got news for all you endgamers who were calling for xp to become unlocked, T8 raids are going to hell in a hand basket (in terms of quality).  </p><p>BTW, I wanted to mention something bout this idea of a fight not being "fair", it is complete and utter BS.  The only fights that are unfair in this game occur in instances which a player violates the EULA.  Those are the only rules we agree to play by when we log on.  Everything else is fair game.  Everyone has the exact same access to spells and gear as everyone else.  Everyone has the same access to groups as everyone else.  Guess what, you get killed by a twink 8 lvls lower than you, its fair.  You get hit solo by a group of 6, its fair.  You get jumped in a one v one, its dishonest, but its fair.  </p><p> Sorry,  I'm just sick of people doing more complaining than playing.</p>

diamondsR4ever
01-06-2008, 06:57 PM
<cite>Derrickray wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>diamondsR4ever wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>ROFL... what a baby!</p><p> PVP isnt friendly... the point is to kill the enermy. What next someone posting raid mobs use a nasty aoe which kills us, not friendly at all...</p><p>As a player who ran a twink lokcing guild you must hate me... answer is simple, join a guild, get help and join in on the war against the other faction.</p><p>New players scared off? <b>LOL wait to you get 80 and everyone twinked in 2 year raid gear in x4 who know their class</b> <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" width="15" height="15" /> Atelast at lower levels with less hotkeys new players had a chance ROFFFFFFFFFFFLLLLLLLLLL.</p><p> When people say go play pve, wow etc they not being rude PVP thats player trying to MURDER another player isn't nice. Ganking the same player over and over again within 30 mins is anti-social somehting I oppose and deserves a complint, but compling PVP is to tough is a JOKE! Mobs dont think, players do....</p><p>[I cannot control my vocabulary] THIS POST MAKES ME LAUGH...... I want to be on a PVP server but I dont want to be killed by anyone who more powerful than me hahahahahaha.</p><p>Ragamuffin </p></blockquote><p>If someone who gets to 80 still doesn't have the coin or know-how to compete by that time that's on them.  This is for people who are new coming into the game and are being killed by twinks as soon as they ding 10.</p><p>It's like signing up for a karate class and the instructor makes you fight a third degree black belt before you've learned anything.  Then all the other black belts laugh at you and tell you it's suppose to be hard.</p><p>Your point would be valid if he was such a new player as he claims... The point people are missing here he is T6 lev 52 and whining like his t2. Maybe he considers everyone a new player until they hit 80? At level 52 is he still has no idea how to play or how to earn coin or join a guild for help... should us all be balmed for his inability?????</p><p>On Naggy level locking was t3, aa little t4.... post eof it was t2. rof had t5 only... i dont know of any guild who had t6 twinks at all.... people low twink lower tiers so im thinking this is just a veryyyyyyyyy bad player jumping on the fair argument in some cases of twinks... i.e t2.</p><p>Ragamuffin</p></blockquote>

vdru
01-06-2008, 08:28 PM
Well I've decided to come back because of some of the personal messages that were sent to me.Thanks for the support to those who gave actual advice and not just some gimic [Removed for Content].I'm afraid to say it though that the <u><i>majority </i></u>of the people posting negative messages haven'ta single clue as to what I am <u><i>really</i></u> getting at and have taken it personal and blinded themselves becausethey think their gaming style is under attack.Again I'll reiterate: My post was about <b>assisting new players</b> and how things may be altered to help them get established in the game. I posted my experience as a new player and how I found it to be..... but evidently a large portion of this PvP community feels that there is no need to assist new players.I am <b>NOT </b>anti-twinking, I am anti-smash the new player till he doesn't want to play though.There is <i>evidently </i>an issue here, but it is been 'clouded' by those who wish to keep the new players in what I haveheard it referred to as 'fish in a barrel'. No offense, but to me this seems to be this issue whenever PvP is introduced in to MMORPGs, for one it brings the <b>jerk </b>out of people, it brings greed, aggression and all other nasty traits associated with these traits. ( I even lost my temper in my 3rd post ).Welcome to the same <b>anit-'supposed'-QQ</b> brigade that swarm at anyone pointing out that there may be a flaw intheir dominance. It's the same in WoW, you dare mention that a few of the classes are overpowered and you actuallyget tells with profanities in it. Anything that remotely suggests their class been OPed they simply reply <b>QQ</b>er. It does aninjustice to the game really because again the people are clouding the actual facts. Then you meet players who openly admit that their class is OPed and that's the reason they rolled that particular class ( which is fair enough ). Anyhow, I never referred to WoW in a direct comparison and I won't because these 2 games are <b>vastly different</b>, but in replyto those of you who didn't read my post for verbatim and started going down the ol' WoW v EQ2 argument:Yes there are twinks in WoW, but you can 'still' function in PvP because of the objectives/larger proportion that aren't twinks.And at higher levels you get smashed due the 'gear' based nature of WoW, but what can you say about EQ2? It's 110% the same -- and from levels 10-80. Also class balance isn't 'that' imbalanced that majority of the population are all the OPed classes.But again, the WoW vrs EQ2 argument is not very valid because they are very different games.Anyhow, I'm off.I stuck my hand in to the TWINKERS Inc. Cove and they swarmed and stung my hand like little bees as if I was trying to steal their hordedhoney-of-easy-mode kills.p.s I'm actually sorry for ever suggesting this on the forums, I should've know that this would be the end result. You can't throw pearls before a swine.... they simply don't get it.

vdru
01-06-2008, 08:35 PM
RE: the QQ @ t5/6 same old QQ argument that was mentioned in an above post.Only reason I made it to T5/6 was because as I said in my OP ( which you folks obviously didn't read ).was due to perseverance and HOPE that it would get better.<span style="font-size: medium;"><b>IN ACTUAL FACT I WANTED TO QUIT AT LEVEL <span style="font-size: xx-large;"><span style="color: #cccc66;">15</span>-<span style="color: #ff66cc;">20</span></span> WHILE IN THE NERIAK STARTING AREA.IF I KNEW NOTHING ABOUT TWINKING I WOULD HAVE TOO!! I KNEW JUST TO DISREGARD BEEN SMASHEDBECAUSE I KNEW IT WAS NOT A FAIR FIGHT CONSIDERING MY GEAR/SPELLS ETC. IF I HAD OF BEEN A NEW PLAYER I WOULD HAVE QUIT!</b><span><b></b></span><span></span><span style="font-size: x-small;"><span>If you could only read my OP and not just JUMP on the <b>anti-'supposed'-QQ</b> bandwagon that would be awesomely pleasing!</span><span style="font-size: xx-small;">p.s This feels like I actual belong to Qeynos and I am fighting off the evil Freeporters *giggles*. *bat* *bat* shoo with you!</span></span><b></b></span>

vdru
01-06-2008, 09:26 PM
God this is frustrating!I walked back to my PC because I had a cunning idea.Perhaps if I 'spell' out what some of us see the others might get it.<b>A.)</b> <i>TOM </i>IS A NEW MMORPGer <b>B.)</b> <u>JULIE </u>IS A VET MMORPGer<b>Stage one</b>: Buying of EQ2<b>A.)</b> <i>TOM</i><i> </i>buys EQ2 because he likes number of classes/ or 3d style of EQ2<b>B.)</b> <u>JULIE</u> played EQ1, played WoW, would like to experience EQ2 <b>Stage two: </b>Starting up<b>A.)</b> <i>TOM</i><i> </i>loads up EQ2 and looks at all the classes and reads their synopsis', he decides that he wants to play a Monk! <b>B.)</b> <u>JULIE</u> loads up EQ2 and begins to experiment with the classes at lower levels. JULIE decides to play 4 class to ten! <b>Stage three: </b>Leveling <b>A.)</b> <i>TOM</i><i> </i>takes awhile to level up been a new players, he finally reaches level 10 in the starting zone. <b>B.)</b> <u>JULIE</u> knows all about MMORPG websites and levels rather quickly! she's now level 10 with 4 classes <b>Stage four: </b>PvPing <b>A.)</b> <i>TOM</i><i> </i>can't understand why he keeps getting killed so FAST in PvP, perhaps he is slow, perhaps he doesn't understand enough. Tom continues <b>B.)</b> <u>JULIE</u> lays out all her buttons and saves up as much $$ as sge can to adept her spells to a1 she gets smashed but she is trying! <b>Stage five: </b>PvPing (round 2) <b>A.)</b> <i>TOM</i><i> </i>is now level 15 and for the past 5 level he has been killed by groups of people, solo people that appear for no where ( scouts ) etc. He is beginning to get frustrated and wonderswhat this 'twinking' thing is every seems to laugh about. He tries this but since he is new he doesn't get the whole idea of running around and mining and gather items to do this 'twinking' thing. <b>B.)</b> <u>JULIE</u> asks advice from fellow players on how to be competitive in PvP, they ramble on about rolling a Warden and farming shinnies to get money to PvP. She starts to do this. <b>Stage six: </b>PvPing (round 3) <b>A.)</b> <i>TOM</i><i> </i>is now 20 he has had enough. He doesn't think the game is fun anymore and thus quits. Bye Bye Tom.<b>B.)</b> <u>JULIE</u> is now 22 with full MC gear! she spent hour and hour and hour farming and selling just to get MC gear so she can level/pvp fight of players.... but wait she still gets smashed, she needs to farm more and more to save up for adepts thta wil be replaced in 10 odd levels. She decides to just push through and level anyhow.<b>Stage seven: </b>PvPing (round 4) <b>A.)</b> <i>TOM</i>'s sub runs out. Tom keeps looking for another MMORPG to play. GOOD LUCK TOM! <b>B.)</b> <u>JULIE</u> is now 30 she's been farming here and there, while questing and leveling... still she is getting smashed! she's getting frustrated as she's spent a fair amount of time in the game. She asks around and says a few things. QQ is the call, go farm! noob! go back to WoW! Julie wants out, she doesn't see the point in playing the game.<b>Stage eight: </b>PvPing (round 4) <b>A.)</b> <i>TOM</i> has found XXXXXXXXXXX MMORPG, he gets to level and fight and playing with people he gets smashed alot but he can fight back now! He's more wiser about his class and he learns how to PvP! Tom stays with this MMORPG. <b>B.)</b> <u>JULIE</u> is mega frustrated, she's pushing on out of sheer determination. She's farmed and spend her time leveling even though as she levels up it is harder and harder to find groups. She starts to realize that perhaps this game isn't worth it.Julie then has a epiphany, she's vrs people who have higher level chars and it is very, very easy for them to fund a twink. The amount of money a higher level can generate vrs a lower level means that she has no way to 'compete' money wise with those people, and she is up against EBAYers who just buy their money. Time to go she says, this isn't PvP. This is a dog fight just to stay alive. I need to spend all this time gearing up each tier just to have a chance at PvP she thinks to herself? Julie de-subscribes.<b>Now for the category I'd say alot of you come from:Tim, Jane, John</b> and <b>Barry </b>have all been playing PvE they all have 1 level 70+. Then one day they hear that a PvP server is on it's way... oh the joy!The day the server comes up they all roll characters on it. They level at a nice pace and fight players as they go along, some slow down and read websites to gear up to get that edgeall is nice and dandy! they hit level 50 and decide to roll a lower level char they do this and startto fund their char with money.... oh the PvP is easy now! all the new players are fresh meat.They make guilds and laugh about how easy it is for them to fight.....their titles roll in. AAs are introducedlevel locking is key, they get more powerful and smash the new players. As this style of play catches on more and more 'powerful' twinks arise and they start to fight each other.Groups are key now! Everything is nice, they smash new players and have interesting fights with each other.or Group smash another etc etc. Every one now has a level 10-40 twink dominating any new player/lesser twink/classthat they come across.Julie and Tim got caught in this fire fight and quit. <b><u><i>They are just 'new' player casualties, who cares about them!QQ to them, go to WoW or XXXX MMORPG.</i></u><span style="font-size: medium;">BUT NONE OF YOU WOULD BE CONCERNED WITH THIS BECAUSE ASLONG AS THERE IS ENOUGH PVP ACTION TO GET YOUR TITLE AND FEEL DOMINATE THEN ALL IS OKAY!THIS IS WHAT YOU CALL FAIR WEATHER SAILING.</span></b><b><u><i></i></u></b>

Svetty
01-07-2008, 02:07 AM
vdruid, First off, I think you have a misconception of what twinking in this game is.  Someone who is wearing MC is not a twink.  MC is easily obtainable by anyone.  If you take the time to read the information that comes with the game it will tell you about harvesting and tradeskilling.  Once you start playing the game it is very easy to figure out that selling harvested materials on the broker is a great way to make fast cash and you can then use that cash to purchase your MC and adept3 spells from tradeskillers or you can tradeskill yourself and make them on your own (which is much cheaper).  I have been playing this game since beta but recently my husband and I decided to transfer from Venekor to Nagafen.  During the time that we were waiting for our transfers to go through (the automatic system was down and we had to have CS do it for us) we started characters on Nagafen.  Within 2 days of being on Nagafen with my single character I had made over 2pp on the broker selling T1 harvestables.  With that money I started tradeskilling and leveled that up quickly.  I could then make my own spells.  At that point, because I am a cheapskate I created a second character and started tradeskilling with it, as well.  That one leveled up quickly and easily, also.  I could then make my own gear.  I continued to spend an hour or so a week harvesting and selling the bulk of those harvests on the broker which continued to net me more and more pp.  I easily make enough money within a week to gear up multiple characters in full MC and Adept3's.  There is no reason you could not do the same.  The true twinks in this game are the characters that are decked out in full fabled gear and master1's.  Any character, though, that is decked out in MC and Adept3's will have a fighting chance against those characters.  The disparity you are seeing is not because of twinking it is because of impatience.  Any brand new character can do what I did with my character.  They can start with nothing and spend a small amount of time getting items that allow them to earn the money to get better gear and spells.  This game is not about the run to the finish.  It is not about getting to the highest level as quickly as possible and trying to be the biggest baddest mofo out there.  As many others have said in this thread, there is so much to this game that it is important to take the time to smell the roses.I am sorry if you have come from games where getting to the end was the most important thing out there or that you feel that you need to do that but that isn't what this game is all about.  It is easy to be competitive in this game as long as you put some time into it and make yourself that way.  You cannot expect anyone else to do it for you. 

ValashokCatcaller
01-07-2008, 02:11 AM
<cite>vdruid wrote:</cite><blockquote>God this is frustrating!I walked back to my PC because I had a cunning idea.Perhaps if I 'spell' out what some of us see the others might get it.<b>A.)</b> <i>TOM </i>IS A NEW MMORPGer <b>B.)</b> <u>JULIE </u>IS A VET MMORPGer<b>Stage one</b>: Buying of EQ2<b>A.)</b> <i>TOM</i><i> </i>buys EQ2 because he likes number of classes/ or 3d style of EQ2<b>B.)</b> <u>JULIE</u> played EQ1, played WoW, would like to experience EQ2 <b>Stage two: </b>Starting up<b>A.)</b> <i>TOM</i><i> </i>loads up EQ2 and looks at all the classes and reads their synopsis', he decides that he wants to play a Monk! <b>B.)</b> <u>JULIE</u> loads up EQ2 and begins to experiment with the classes at lower levels. JULIE decides to play 4 class to ten! <b>Stage three: </b>Leveling <b>A.)</b> <i>TOM</i><i> </i>takes awhile to level up been a new players, he finally reaches level 10 in the starting zone. <b>B.)</b> <u>JULIE</u> knows all about MMORPG websites and levels rather quickly! she's now level 10 with 4 classes <b>Stage four: </b>PvPing <b>A.)</b> <i>TOM</i><i> </i>can't understand why he keeps getting killed so FAST in PvP, perhaps he is slow, perhaps he doesn't understand enough. Tom continues <b>B.)</b> <u>JULIE</u> lays out all her buttons and saves up as much $$ as sge can to adept her spells to a1 she gets smashed but she is trying! <b>Stage five: </b>PvPing (round 2) <b>A.)</b> <i>TOM</i><i> </i>is now level 15 and for the past 5 level he has been killed by groups of people, solo people that appear for no where ( scouts ) etc. He is beginning to get frustrated and wonderswhat this 'twinking' thing is every seems to laugh about. He tries this but since he is new he doesn't get the whole idea of running around and mining and gather items to do this 'twinking' thing. <b>B.)</b> <u>JULIE</u> asks advice from fellow players on how to be competitive in PvP, they ramble on about rolling a Warden and farming shinnies to get money to PvP. She starts to do this. <b>Stage six: </b>PvPing (round 3) <b>A.)</b> <i>TOM</i><i> </i>is now 20 he has had enough. He doesn't think the game is fun anymore and thus quits. Bye Bye Tom.<b>B.)</b> <u>JULIE</u> is now 22 with full MC gear! she spent hour and hour and hour farming and selling just to get MC gear so she can level/pvp fight of players.... but wait she still gets smashed, she needs to farm more and more to save up for adepts thta wil be replaced in 10 odd levels. She decides to just push through and level anyhow.<b>Stage seven: </b>PvPing (round 4) <b>A.)</b> <i>TOM</i>'s sub runs out. Tom keeps looking for another MMORPG to play. GOOD LUCK TOM! <b>B.)</b> <u>JULIE</u> is now 30 she's been farming here and there, while questing and leveling... still she is getting smashed! she's getting frustrated as she's spent a fair amount of time in the game. She asks around and says a few things. QQ is the call, go farm! noob! go back to WoW! Julie wants out, she doesn't see the point in playing the game.<b>Stage eight: </b>PvPing (round 4) <b>A.)</b> <i>TOM</i> has found XXXXXXXXXXX MMORPG, he gets to level and fight and playing with people he gets smashed alot but he can fight back now! He's more wiser about his class and he learns how to PvP! Tom stays with this MMORPG. <b>B.)</b> <u>JULIE</u> is mega frustrated, she's pushing on out of sheer determination. She's farmed and spend her time leveling even though as she levels up it is harder and harder to find groups. She starts to realize that perhaps this game isn't worth it.Julie then has a epiphany, she's vrs people who have higher level chars and it is very, very easy for them to fund a twink. The amount of money a higher level can generate vrs a lower level means that she has no way to 'compete' money wise with those people, and she is up against EBAYers who just buy their money. Time to go she says, this isn't PvP. This is a dog fight just to stay alive. I need to spend all this time gearing up each tier just to have a chance at PvP she thinks to herself? Julie de-subscribes.<b>Now for the category I'd say alot of you come from:Tim, Jane, John</b> and <b>Barry </b>have all been playing PvE they all have 1 level 70+. Then one day they hear that a PvP server is on it's way... oh the joy!The day the server comes up they all roll characters on it. They level at a nice pace and fight players as they go along, some slow down and read websites to gear up to get that edgeall is nice and dandy! they hit level 50 and decide to roll a lower level char they do this and startto fund their char with money.... oh the PvP is easy now! all the new players are fresh meat.They make guilds and laugh about how easy it is for them to fight.....their titles roll in. AAs are introducedlevel locking is key, they get more powerful and smash the new players. As this style of play catches on more and more 'powerful' twinks arise and they start to fight each other.Groups are key now! Everything is nice, they smash new players and have interesting fights with each other.or Group smash another etc etc. Every one now has a level 10-40 twink dominating any new player/lesser twink/classthat they come across.Julie and Tim got caught in this fire fight and quit. <b><u><i>They are just 'new' player casualties, who cares about them!QQ to them, go to WoW or XXXX MMORPG.</i></u><span style="font-size: medium;">BUT NONE OF YOU WOULD BE CONCERNED WITH THIS BECAUSE ASLONG AS THERE IS ENOUGH PVP ACTION TO GET YOUR TITLE AND FEEL DOMINATE THEN ALL IS OKAY!THIS IS WHAT YOU CALL FAIR WEATHER SAILING.</span></b><b><u><i></i></u></b></blockquote>I laughed when I read this because you obviously have no clue.  I did an experiment recently.  As I was looking to move to Nagafen from Venekor, I rolled a new character on Naggy.  No higher level to feed it plat, just a brand new baby noob of a class I have never played in this game (wizard).  First, I learned where the good armor drops were, which is TD for lowbies.  I found out how to go there, and then went there.  I got some good gear. I gathered to make adept III spells, and sold off the excess gathers.  I made 5 PP within a week, more than enough to get into mastercrafted (which was cheap to get made since I had my own rares) and adept III my spells.The moral of this story?  Anybody can do it.  I spent an hour while questing and PVPing the other night explaining to some real newbies, as in new to the game, how to do it.  They asked, and I mostly just point them to the sites that have the relevant info.  I got a tell from one the other day thanking me.  They actually went out, read the info, and are doing quite well in PVP now.  What I see here is you got to 52, and never bothered to actually learn how to play.  Granted, SK is not a great solo class, but I have seen even non-twinked SKs do quite well in a group setting.  Best I can tell from the experiences you relate is you tried to solo a (generally) non solo class, ignored the quite large and (there are notable exceptions) helpful playerbase, and decided to take your toys and go home.  Best I can tell is that you did not utilize the resources available to you, and then blame us for not doing so.Get some accountability.  Admit you came, you saw, you got owned, and try to learn from the experience, as you obviously have not yet.

Ichigoo
01-07-2008, 05:01 AM
<p>Let me just say this post is a very good idea to help newbies. Also i can see you did try to understand the system before going off to power lvl but sometimes its not your fault. SOE's pvp system as stated many times above is flawed. For starters the many fixes implemented to fix pvp. On paper very good concepts at an attempt to fix pvp. In reality it just makes all pvp toons already created even more twinked. Now with the lvling for pvp kills you'll probably find even less help from other players. some may just stand there watching you get killed offering no help cause it'll lvl them or theres no infamy to be gained. </p><p>Also your class has some disadvantages other classes just play off of. You can't run fast, you don't any form of invis/stealth, or see stealth/invis (i think), no track, etc etc. and yes i know you can buy a totem but then you'd just spend all you money on those instead of decent gear. Again this is a SOE product flaw not you. </p><p>My best advice to you is make a pvp toon and a pve toon. The pve one harvest, crafts, doesn't care if he is killed in pvp and power lvls to 80 to raid for his gear. the pvp toon you can take your time. gather Masters, gear, aa and lvl lock him. Heck you can make a second SK for pvp purposes. I know they are a good pvp class. Also join a very very populated guild. ever since the new pvp xp change a lot of guilds have died off with maybe one or two hardcore gamers still there and they don't actually help at all. another thing though a little harder to learn from just reading about it and not many people talk about is learn about the other classes. you got killed by a 44 warden. Ok next time be wary of wardens or avoid them if you can. as an assassin i get owned by wardens too so i generally avoid them, attack them when they are engaged, or fight them 2v1. I know its unfair, its cheap and its dirty and yes I have track and stealth so yes i have a overwhelming advantage but this is pvp and if you wanna win then don't be afraid to use dirty tactics. alls fair in war otherwise SOE won't have allowed it.</p><p>Hope that helps and you stick around. Also if naggy is still as unsatisfiying as before, come to Vox or Venekor. we're more like your PVE servers with a hint of pvp. the reason- we are so underpopulated that you can run around for hours questing, grinding, doing pve stuff and not run into a single player. (for vox that more true for FP imo) then just join that huge guild and you'll still have people to group with.</p>

keLston
01-07-2008, 01:19 PM
The problem is that the OP equates helping newbies with feeding them gear, money, and a pat on the head.I'm a new player. December 13th is when I first got the game. Rolled Nagafen. Certainly didn't know anyone. And yet, i'm doing just fine. I don't have a 24:1 KvD in PvP, and my record was certainly laughable the first few deaths, but I survived.Imagine that. I'm that "veteran" MMO player except not the pathetic version the OP decided to spend so much effort writing about.I came, swallowed my pride and asked the dumb questions. Sometimes I got answers, sometimes I got laughed at. So what? Get over yourself. Heaven forbid there are some things you have to learn yourself."The things I did not know at first I learned by doin' twice" - Billy Joel's The Entertainer

Csky
01-07-2008, 09:47 PM
<p>WB Vdruid <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>there IS alot of good to this game although it has its problems..they all do</p><p>i love this game and i think soe did a wonderful job with it and im low level and struggling..the twinks are a pain but the effort of a few days farming for really GOOD gear every teir isnt such a bad price to pay..gear IS attainable for all which is isnt in alot of other games</p><p>i left and came back to give it another shot and im glad i did..the more i play it the more i like it</p>

Zacarus
01-08-2008, 12:28 AM
<cite>vdruid wrote:</cite><blockquote><span class="postbody">And you wonder why EQ2 <b><i>failed</i></b>. I'm off to Warhammer Online anyhow, EQ2 Was a gap filler between WoW and Warhammer Online.I'll just wait out the X months till it comes. When it does, I'll get to play some 'real' PvP.</span><b><span style="font-size: medium;"></span></b><b><u><i></i></u></b></blockquote><cite></cite><cite>and vdruid wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well I've decided to come back </blockquote>I'm thinking you need something stronger than eq2:<a href="http://www.mentalhealth.com/drug/p30-c01.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.mentalhealth.com/drug/p30-c01.html</a><cite></cite>

keLston
01-08-2008, 01:35 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>vdruid wrote:</cite><blockquote><span class="postbody">And you wonder why EQ2 <b><i>failed</i></b>. I'm off to Warhammer Online anyhow, EQ2 Was a gap filler between WoW and Warhammer Online.I'll just wait out the X months till it comes. When it does, I'll get to play some 'real' PvP.</span><b><span style="font-size: medium;"></span></b><b><u><i></i></u></b></blockquote><cite></cite><cite>and vdruid wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well I've decided to come back </blockquote>I'm thinking you need something stronger than eq2:<a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.mentalhealth.com/drug/p30-c01.html" target="_blank">http://www.mentalhealth.com/drug/p30-c01.html</a><cite></cite></blockquote>[Removed for Content]

seejester
01-08-2008, 02:35 AM
<span style="font-size: small;color: #00ff00;">Hmmmm, several interesting replies to the OP, some insightful, though others seemed to be garbled out from under the bridge.It is true that, even with no high toon to bankroll you, it's rather easy to earn some big plat, quickly. I've done it myself within the past couple of months. It is also true you can easily level a crafter or two to keep your toon supplied with MC gear, or adept IIIs, or some keen weapons or jewelry. However, I believe many of you have not thought the OP's points through very well. Remember when you first played this game? How utterly confusing everything was?I just have to think back to before I knew all the ends and outs to remember how much time you could loose asking questions and combing the forums... and unfortunately for every good post in this forum there's a hundred gripes/attacks/flames/whines. I think it's fair to say that this game can be VERY daunting to the true eq2 newb. You almost have to know how most things work to even guess what questions to ask. It's pretty easy to see IMO how difficult that would be for a new player. What you or I could accomplish in a couple of days, could take them a month.The OP is of the opinion that a new character in the first five tiers should still have a chance against a twink. IMO I agree with him. Why not? Good gear should give you an edge, but should it make a fight a sure thing? I keep all my toons well geared. At T8, this means little, as we're all getting the new stuff and we're on an even keel. But for my alts, I'm tweaked to the point that I can just glance at an orange and know whether he'll even stand a chance against me. Oftentimes my wealth and fabled gear make my alts Gods.New blood is vital to the longevity of this game. People get frustrated with this game, it's kinda the price you pay for something so complex to learn and play. Sometimes you just get tired of the same stuff all the time. Or, more likely, PvP dries up and you get tired of scouring the zones looking for enough thrills to keep your interest. Either way, we lose people every day.This game, like most games, needs fresh blood. We need new players to come and fall in love with this game, to give us fresh meat for the grinder. Our population should be expanding. The OP made some suggestions to help with that. IMO we shouldn't be so quick to shoot down his opinion. Of one thing I'm certain. IF we lose more players than we gain, sooner or later this game will die. And if EQ2 were set up exactly the way you like it, the way you LOVE it, and it dies, what do you have then?</span>

keLston
01-08-2008, 03:52 AM
He liked to state how experienced an MMOer he was.If he was, it wouldn't be as daunting as you make it out to be. I'm new to EQ2, true newb if you will. Less than a month into the game. I didn't find it so confusing that most of that stuff I couldn't figure out. If he couldn't figure it out, then he's not as experienced as he would like us to believe and/or he just bought gold in previous MMOs to get ahead but didn't this time around.

DS_Wind
01-09-2008, 08:57 AM
<p>vdruid ...</p><p>u right that twinks are pain for new players...</p><p>SK one of the best 1vs1 tank PvP and not bad PvM tank class  so have problems only coz u are new to game and don't know how to make money and u haven't good PvP experience atm ... and the same situation in all pvp mmorpg (not only in eq2) ... 30%+ new chars in all old mmorpgs = twinks and they will kill any new player easy 1 vs 1 coz of gearskills.</p><p>So there are some advices and explanations for u (and maybe for some other new players)J in short way:</p><p>Exping:</p><p>- u have to think not only about combat lvls but about AA too coz AA= great advantages in all classes => the best way to exp solo quest lines <a href="http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Solo_Timelines" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Solo_Timelines</a> ;</p><p>- if u'll make solo quest lines from start at 40+ lvls ur AA lvls will be always higher then combat one;</p><p>Money:</p><p> To harvest rares ?!?! OMG !! one of the worst advice u can give to new player! Low lvl rares = crap money and mega boring.</p><p>Look here man <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> money = masters and collection all the time. Most low lvls collections crap money too, but not all (and not for new player).</p><p>Here is plan for ur new scout alt lol: exp to 25lvl=> Stormhold (in Antonica) for collection bones (5-75g bone), tons of spots there u may harvest non stop=>mastercraft armor+master skills=> solo named killing all SH => more money for start (u may lock on 27-28 if u want).</p><p>U don't want scout alt? lol and u already 52 ..np..ur lvl is the best one for named in The Obelisk of Lost Souls (in The Feerrott) <a href="http://eq2.gamepressure.com/maps.asp?ID=83" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://eq2.gamepressure.com/maps.asp?ID=83</a></p><p>Equip:</p><p>- when u'll make money concentrate on chip Master I skills not on Adpt III coz some  Master skills costs chipper then Adpt III + always better to overpay 1-2pp for master then to buy Adpt III. Buy Adpt III only if it is one of ur key skill and Master to expensive other skills buy chip Adpt I.</p><p>- mastercraft every X2 lvl enough for exp and pvp;</p><p>- look legendary gear too, it may be better and chipper then mastercraft one;</p><p>PvP:</p><p>- read ur class forum;</p><p>- PvP it is not only to know ur class well u have to know how other classes works too;</p><p>- Locked twinks it is not only good gearskills it is usually tons of AA, so nothing strange that 44 killed u, he may have 60-70+aa;</p><p>(as SK against healer u may try to make him 50% hp with crap skills then main dps+ knockdown or just HT);</p>

Biaxil
01-09-2008, 04:57 PM
HAHAHAHA....OP how else can I say it.....you are ummm.....WOW!!!!  Go back there.  We don't need your kind here.....<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

BlueDagger
01-09-2008, 08:57 PM
<p>Biaxil take your 14yo [Removed for Content] back to DoA Volleyball while the big kids talk.</p><p>Similar experiance to the OP, I got rocked by twinks and head hunting twink grps through my lower lvls.... over and over and over but still kept at it. I locked for a long while in my early thirties to AA up and I crafted the whole time, so I kept up with MC gear. As a mystic I could hold my ground in solo fight, but against roving groups you just die. In grp vs grp it is pure chaos for most pickup grps being farmed by almost timed token farmers.</p><p>PvP should not be about farming people 7 lvls lower then you. While PvE is fun it can only keep your interest for so long and lets fave it, PvE server have non-existant PvP. I left EQ2 3 years ago after launch and was pleasently surprised by how far it's come, but it's people like Biaxil and roving headhunting grps that have me leaving it. </p><p>I wish everyone well and I hope EQ2 wakes up on a few things that they can indeed learn from WoW. Until then, this is another subscriber lost.</p><p>-Dragros</p>

EQ Junkie
01-09-2008, 10:47 PM
<p> Ok I know im comming in on this one late but I cot to put my 2 coppers worth in.</p><p>  Here's my opinion on how things could get fixxed. Take out the PvP rewards so players will stop having SUCH a reason to run around and gank folks, especially new commers. SOE could make zones "captureable". Like Thundering steps and up. Antonica and Common Lands would stay under 'home city control" but all higher zones could be faught for. If a certain city or faction has "control" of the zone then that city would post / spawn guards at towers and patroll roads. Giving that fation player a safe haven to run to if available. Zone taking would take raid force, or not an easy task. Towers would have to be taken in a certain amount of time or else the raid force would have to start over. While also trying to 'take' a zone. Raid members would also have to 'defend' against players trying to hold it. It would work alot like DAoC but I think it would work for EQ2. Yes Level caps would need to be set so a group of 80s cant go and kill Thundering stepps gurads and all. But you guys see what im getting at. I think that aspect of PvP would be alot more fun then gang bang style run and gun ganking. </p><p> I quit playing my 40 ranger on Naggy cuz for me. once you get past 35. Pick up groups are extreamly hard to come by. Soloing on a EQ2 pvp server is suicide so I just headed back to my PvE server. Look me up, char name Jasinki on Nagafen</p>

Csky
01-09-2008, 11:17 PM
<cite>EQ Junkie wrote:</cite><blockquote><p> Ok I know im comming in on this one late but I cot to put my 2 coppers worth in.</p><p>  Here's my opinion on how things could get fixxed. Take out the PvP rewards so players will stop having SUCH a reason to run around and gank folks, especially new commers. SOE could make zones "captureable". Like Thundering steps and up. Antonica and Common Lands would stay under 'home city control" but all higher zones could be faught for. If a certain city or faction has "control" of the zone then that city would post / spawn guards at towers and patroll roads. Giving that fation player a safe haven to run to if available. Zone taking would take raid force, or not an easy task. Towers would have to be taken in a certain amount of time or else the raid force would have to start over. While also trying to 'take' a zone. Raid members would also have to 'defend' against players trying to hold it. It would work alot like DAoC but I think it would work for EQ2. Yes Level caps would need to be set so a group of 80s cant go and kill Thundering stepps gurads and all. But you guys see what im getting at. I think that aspect of PvP would be alot more fun then gang bang style run and gun ganking. </p><p> I quit playing my 40 ranger on Naggy cuz for me. once you get past 35. Pick up groups are extreamly hard to come by. Soloing on a EQ2 pvp server is suicide so I just headed back to my PvE server. Look me up, char name Jasinki on Nagafen</p></blockquote><p>well said i wish they would get rid of the PVP rewards also and let us kill each other for the sake of good vs evil or whatever and change it to a 4 level limit instead of 8 ..8 levels is too much</p><p>PVP shouldnt be a grindfest it isnt realistic and some players would actually go in more defense mode as non PK and some would be cold blooded PKs and it would just be a better game and would be more realistic instead of senseless ganking for a title</p>

Tae
01-10-2008, 08:34 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite> </cite>I laughed when I read this because you obviously have no clue.  </blockquote>Did you even read his post? You've played the game before. Therefore you know exactly where you need to go to get fabled gear, and exactly what you need to do. For Taear when I was levelling him up I didn't see a master until I was in the mid 50s. I didn't see a legendary piece of gear outside of the Obelisk of Lost Souls. When I levelled my second and third characters I knew about all sorts of places I didn't have a clue about when I was new. Honestly anyone who thinks twinking is fine hasn't had a friend try and create a character and mentored down to help out. It's ridiculous how easy that person will be killed, and unless you spend a fortune kitting them out they're going to die a bunch of times because of how EQ2 bottlenecks people into certain areas for quests. I'm just glad that in the 30s only EL is bad on Venekor, so people can level and get to the real game as fast as possible.

Balrok
01-10-2008, 08:50 PM
<p>The fact that you enjoyed the PvE side of EQ2 speaks volumes.  EQ2 was NOT designed for PvP.  It is a PvE game first and formost.  If you can accept that PvP was hacked into EQ2, you will start to enjoy your PvP time.  It was NOT, or for the love of god I hope it isn't, sold for PvP reasons.</p><p>Accept PvP as beta and you'll enjoy the ups and downs of PvP in EQ2.  But again, it's a solid PvE MMO.</p>

glim3mer
01-13-2008, 07:59 AM
Solution for twinking, allow only one character per account. This way, you have your main character and thats it. Want to twink, fine, delete your main and make your Twink you main. OR buy a second account and so on.This worked really well in SWG. People played their mains and thats it, some bought second and third accounts to make crafters.Problem solved. As long as MMO's allow more then one character, people will twink.