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View Full Version : Things that will improve EQ2 PvP withOUT asking for a nerf


Vydar
01-03-2008, 06:36 PM
<span class="postbody">Remove titles.Remove perma immunity.Remove in combat evac's. Remove in combat run speed buffs, once engaged.  Once engaged, everyone should run at 0% unless burning power on sprint.  Allow other factions into Haven, maintain city PvP rules.Give all three factions all 24 classes.Give exiles access to PvP gear.  </span>

Bozidar
01-03-2008, 06:41 PM
<p>some of those are nerfs, fyi.</p><p>add these: </p><p>increase starting faction to 0</p><p>allow lower-level tokens to be used at some exchange rate for end-game tokens</p><p>Improve the pvp gear armor as it currently is almost all garbage compared to master crafted gear</p>

-Arctura-
01-03-2008, 06:44 PM
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="color: #ffff00;"><b>Nerf = Removing something from game after release to public servers,</b> </span><span style="font-size: x-small;">esp. a gameplay aspect that has been in effect for a considerable period of time, or is a launch feature.</span></span><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><span class="postbody"><strike>Remove titles. </strike>  <b><span style="color: #cc0000;">NERF</span></b><strike>Remove perma immunity.</strike>   </span><span class="postbody"><b><span style="color: #cc0000;">NERF</span></b></span><span class="postbody"> <strike>Remove in combat evac's.   </strike> </span><span class="postbody"><b><span style="color: #cc0000;">NERF, (and they already did this a long, long time ago. Incombat Evac-lockets dont work, despite their description)</span></b></span><span class="postbody"><strike>Remove in combat run speed buffs, once engaged.  Once engaged, everyone should run at 0% unless burning power on sprint.  </strike> </span><span class="postbody"><b><span style="color: #cc0000;">NERF</span></b></span><span class="postbody"><span style="color: #009900;"></span><span style="color: #009900;"><b>Allow other factions into Haven, maintain city PvP rules.</b></span><strike>Give all three factions all 24 classes.</strike> </span><span style="color: #cc0000;"><b>Paladins in Freeport, Necromancers in Qeynos? </b></span><span class="postbody"><strike>Give exiles access to PvP gear.</strike>  </span><span style="color: #cc0000;"><b>Exiles have advantages other alignments dont. First and foremost is having twice the number of pvp targets. If exiles DID get pvp gear, their token requirements should be Double those of Q or Freep pvp gear requirements, by default. EH?</b></span></blockquote>(( this Haven change is excellent, the rest are either nerfs or not really necessary to improve pvp.

Vydar
01-03-2008, 06:52 PM
<cite>-Arctura- wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><span class="postbody"><strike>Remove titles. </strike>  <b><span style="color: #cc0000;">NERF</span></b><strike>Remove perma immunity.</strike>   </span><span class="postbody"><b><span style="color: #cc0000;">NERF</span></b></span><span class="postbody"> <strike>Remove in combat evac's.   </strike> </span><span class="postbody"><b><span style="color: #cc0000;">NERF</span></b></span><span class="postbody"><strike>Remove in combat run speed buffs, once engaged.  Once engaged, everyone should run at 0% unless burning power on sprint.  </strike> </span><span class="postbody"><b><span style="color: #cc0000;">NERF</span></b></span><span class="postbody"><span style="color: #009900;"></span><span style="color: #009900;"><b>Allow other factions into Haven, maintain city PvP rules.</b></span><strike>Give all three factions all 24 classes.</strike><strike>Give exiles access to PvP gear. </strike> </span></blockquote>(( this Haven change is excellent, the rest are either nerfs or not really necessary to improve pvp.</blockquote>First off: Definition of a nerfIn <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_gaming" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">computer gaming</a>, a <b>nerf</b> is a change to the rules of a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_game" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">computer game</a> that weakens a certain object or ability. The games most frequently adjusted for game balance are <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiplayer" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">multiplayer</a> online computer games, especially <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMORPG" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">MMORPGs</a> and highly competitive games such as tactical <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-person_shooter" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">first-person shooters</a> and <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-time_strategy" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">real-time strategy</a> games. Nerfing is an important concept in <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_balance" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">game balance</a>. Nerfs can have a dramatic impact on the intricate balance between different classes, items, and skills, making them often highly controversial.Titles does not nerf any class abilities or anyone's ability to pvp effectively.  It simply removes the incentive to play the hiding in immunity game that we have now.Perma immunity is once again, not a nerf.  People sitting in perma immunity while they wait for evac to come back up is just sad and once again, hurts PvP.  Anything that allows, gives incentive to, or removes the mechanic for active, constant PvP is a bad thing.  In combat evac's are just stupid and are not as intended already.  All other evac's do not work in combat.  The ability to spend 1000 faction with the Rallos Zek deity, which means you have to sell like two looted treasured garbage from mobs to your deity, is stupid.  So your group can engage mine, we can kill the druid, you decide your losing, your group gets whisked away.  That's a great way to keep PvP going.  In combat run speeds are also stupid.  I attack you, you attack me back, you decide you're losing... hit some kind of run speed buff and good bye!Giving the other factions all 24 classes would equalize raiding and take away the excuses and problems that arise from having a game designed to balance with 24 classes, then restricting access to those classes.  To give the other factions all 24 classes, the only fair thing to do in turn would be to give exiles access to PvP gear. 

Vydar
01-03-2008, 06:54 PM
<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>some of those are nerfs, fyi.</p><p>add these: </p><p>increase starting faction to 0</p><p>allow lower-level tokens to be used at some exchange rate for end-game tokens</p><p>Improve the pvp gear armor as it currently is almost all garbage compared to master crafted gear</p></blockquote>Using lower level tokens for end game gear is a terrible idea.  So... I can kill people at level 18, and then when I reach level 80, I have instant access to some amazing piece of loot?  In what other tier can you earn no trade fabled gear for a higher tier without being taken to that content by higher level players?  The lower level pvp gear does in fact need an upgrade, as it is too weak now.

-Arctura-
01-03-2008, 06:56 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>-Arctura- wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><span class="postbody"><strike>Remove titles. </strike>  <b><span style="color: #cc0000;">NERF</span></b><strike>Remove perma immunity.</strike>   </span><span class="postbody"><b><span style="color: #cc0000;">NERF</span></b></span><span class="postbody"> <strike>Remove in combat evac's.   </strike> </span><span class="postbody"><b><span style="color: #cc0000;">NERF</span></b></span><span class="postbody"><strike>Remove in combat run speed buffs, once engaged.  Once engaged, everyone should run at 0% unless burning power on sprint.  </strike> </span><span class="postbody"><b><span style="color: #cc0000;">NERF</span></b></span><span class="postbody"><span style="color: #009900;"></span><span style="color: #009900;"><b>Allow other factions into Haven, maintain city PvP rules.</b></span><strike>Give all three factions all 24 classes.</strike><strike>Give exiles access to PvP gear. </strike> </span></blockquote>(( this Haven change is excellent, the rest are either nerfs or not really necessary to improve pvp.</blockquote>First off: Definition of a nerfIn <a rel="nofollow" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_gaming" target="_blank">computer gaming</a>, a <b>nerf</b> is a change to the rules of a <a rel="nofollow" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_game" target="_blank">computer game</a> that weakens a certain object or ability. The games most frequently adjusted for game balance are <a rel="nofollow" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiplayer" target="_blank">multiplayer</a> online computer games, especially <a rel="nofollow" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMORPG" target="_blank">MMORPGs</a> and highly competitive games such as tactical <a rel="nofollow" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-person_shooter" target="_blank">first-person shooters</a> and <a rel="nofollow" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-time_strategy" target="_blank">real-time strategy</a> games. Nerfing is an important concept in <a rel="nofollow" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_balance" target="_blank">game balance</a>. Nerfs can have a dramatic impact on the intricate balance between different classes, items, and skills, making them often highly controversial.Titles does not nerf any class abilities or anyone's ability to pvp effectively.  It simply removes the incentive to play the hiding in immunity game that we have now.Perma immunity is once again, not a nerf.  People sitting in perma immunity while they wait for evac to come back up is just sad and once again, hurts PvP.  Anything that allows, gives incentive to, or removes the mechanic for active, constant PvP is a bad thing.  In combat evac's are just stupid and are not as intended already.  All other evac's do not work in combat.  The ability to spend 1000 faction with the Rallos Zek deity, which means you have to sell like two looted treasured garbage from mobs to your deity, is stupid.  So your group can engage mine, we can kill the druid, you decide your losing, your group gets whisked away.  That's a great way to keep PvP going.  In combat run speeds are also stupid.  I attack you, you attack me back, you decide you're losing... hit some kind of run speed buff and good bye!Giving the other factions all 24 classes would equalize raiding and take away the excuses and problems that arise from having a game designed to balance with 24 classes, then restricting access to those classes.  To give the other factions all 24 classes, the only fair thing to do in turn would be to give exiles access to PvP gear.  </blockquote>(( <span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="color: #ffff00;">Nerf = Removing something from game after release to public servers, </span><span style="font-size: x-small;">esp. a gameplay aspect that has been in effect for a long period of time, or is a launch feature.</span></span>

Bozidar
01-03-2008, 06:59 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>Using lower level tokens for end game gear is a terrible idea.  So... I can kill people at level 18, and then when I reach level 80, I have instant access to some amazing piece of loot?  In what other tier can you earn no trade fabled gear for a higher tier without being taken to that content by higher level players?  </blockquote><p>Well.. i disagree.</p><p>You can kill people at lvl 18, and as you do you level.  and then you have to kill people at 19, then 20, and then higher and higher.</p><p>I'm not suggesting that a lvl 20 token should be equal to a lvl 70 token.  i'm talking about an exchange rate so that my lvl 20 token isn't completely worthless to me.</p><p>Titles - as much as they may discourage pvp, removing them would be widely considered nerfing someone's game experience.  You can post as many definitions as you like, but if they out-right remove something it's going to be viewed as a nerf.</p>

Xisi
01-03-2008, 07:09 PM
<cite>-Arctura- wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>-Arctura- wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite></blockquote>First off: Definition of a nerfIn <a rel="nofollow" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_gaming" target="_blank">computer gaming</a>, a <b>nerf</b> is a change to the rules of a <a rel="nofollow" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_game" target="_blank">computer game</a> that weakens a certain object or ability. The games most frequently adjusted for game balance are <a rel="nofollow" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiplayer" target="_blank">multiplayer</a> online computer games, especially <a rel="nofollow" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMORPG" target="_blank">MMORPGs</a> and highly competitive games such as tactical <a rel="nofollow" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-person_shooter" target="_blank">first-person shooters</a> and <a rel="nofollow" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-time_strategy" target="_blank">real-time strategy</a> games. Nerfing is an important concept in <a rel="nofollow" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_balance" target="_blank">game balance</a>. Nerfs can have a dramatic impact on the intricate balance between different classes, items, and skills, making them often highly controversial.Titles does not nerf any class abilities or anyone's ability to pvp effectively.  It simply removes the incentive to play the hiding in immunity game that we have now.Perma immunity is once again, not a nerf.  People sitting in perma immunity while they wait for evac to come back up is just sad and once again, hurts PvP.  Anything that allows, gives incentive to, or removes the mechanic for active, constant PvP is a bad thing.  In combat evac's are just stupid and are not as intended already.  All other evac's do not work in combat.  The ability to spend 1000 faction with the Rallos Zek deity, which means you have to sell like two looted treasured garbage from mobs to your deity, is stupid.  So your group can engage mine, we can kill the druid, you decide your losing, your group gets whisked away.  That's a great way to keep PvP going.  In combat run speeds are also stupid.  I attack you, you attack me back, you decide you're losing... hit some kind of run speed buff and good bye!Giving the other factions all 24 classes would equalize raiding and take away the excuses and problems that arise from having a game designed to balance with 24 classes, then restricting access to those classes.  To give the other factions all 24 classes, the only fair thing to do in turn would be to give exiles access to PvP gear.  </blockquote>(( <span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="color: #ffff00;">Nerf = Removing something from game after release to public servers, </span><span style="font-size: x-small;">esp. a gameplay aspect that has been in effect for a long period of time, or is a launch feature.</span></span></blockquote>Can they nerf death penalty please? Also please nerf the immunity on my mezz. I may want to play an illy in a PvP server. Oh, also nerf my cloth gear.

Amphibia
01-03-2008, 07:23 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><span class="postbody">Remove titles.  <span style="color: #33cc00;"><b>Great idea! Should have been done already, or at the very least changed them to either no fame loss via PvP death or allow those who don't want to participate to disable titles and all fame loss/gain. The title system is broken, and unfairly aimed at classes that have many and good escape abilites. It also rewards cowardice rather than real PvP skill. </b></span>Remove perma immunity. <span style="color: #33cc00;"><b>I agree, perma immunity is for home cities. Perhaps also docks, but never after an evac, </b></span>Remove in combat evac's. <span style="color: #33cc00;"> <b>Remove evac entirely, I'd say. Or make them grey out if you are hit by a hostile player. Or alternatively, have evac take you to your binding point (like escape lockets), in which they will become so awkward to use that people will think twice before hitting the button. And add longer casting time, make it easy to interrupt and unable to be cast on the run. Also add 60 minute recast, so that they are equal to escape lockets. </b></span>Remove in combat run speed buffs, once engaged. <b> </b>Once engaged, everyone should run at 0% unless burning power on sprint.<b>  <span style="color: #33cc00;">This is fine as it is. The only classes that still have in combat running speed is bards, and they must be allowed to keep that to have a fair chance in PvP. </span></b><span style="color: #33cc00;"></span>Allow other factions into Haven, maintain city PvP rules. <span style="color: #33cc00;"><b>Yeah, why not? </b></span>Give all three factions all 24 classes.<b> <span style="color: #33cc00;">That isn't going to happen, I think. Too much lore issues in the way. </span></b>Give exiles access to PvP gear. <span style="color: #33cc00;"><b> I agree, why not let them have these writs and PvP gear too? But make it cost twice as much, since they have far more targets. Maybe this would tempt them to come out of that cave once in a while and PvP with the rest of us. </b></span> </span></blockquote><span style="color: #33cc00;"><b>Replies are in green. </b></span>

Shadow_Viper
01-03-2008, 07:44 PM
<cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><span class="postbody">Remove titles.  <span style="color: #33cc00;"><b>Great idea! Should have been done already, or at the very least changed them to either no fame loss via PvP death or allow those who don't want to participate to disable titles and all fame loss/gain. The title system is broken, and unfairly aimed at classes that have many and good escape abilites. It also rewards cowardice rather than real PvP skill. <span style="color: #0000ff;">I agree</span></b></span>Remove perma immunity. <span style="color: #33cc00;"><b>I agree, perma immunity is for home cities. Perhaps also docks, but never after an evac, <span style="color: #0000ff;">I agree as well.</span></b></span>Remove in combat evac's. <span style="color: #33cc00;"> <b>Remove evac entirely, I'd say. Or make them grey out if you are hit by a hostile player. Or alternatively, have evac take you to your binding point (like escape lockets), in which they will become so awkward to use that people will think twice before hitting the button. And add longer casting time, make it easy to interrupt and unable to be cast on the run. Also add 60 minute recast, so that they are equal to escape lockets.  <span style="color: #0000ff;">There is nothing wrong with evacs as there are, if you are having problems keeping a player from escaping from you I would suggest visiting your class boards and asking for advice. The class boards are really a great tool and should be used!</span></b></span>Remove in combat run speed buffs, once engaged. <b> </b>Once engaged, everyone should run at 0% unless burning power on sprint.<b>  <span style="color: #33cc00;">This is fine as it is. The only classes that still have in combat running speed is bards, and they must be allowed to keep that to have a fair chance in PvP. </span><span style="color: #0000ff;">I agree with it being fine as is</span></b>Allow other factions into Haven, maintain city PvP rules. <span style="color: #33cc00;"><b>Yeah, why not? <span style="color: #0000ff;">Agree here too</span></b></span>Give all three factions all 24 classes.<b> <span style="color: #33cc00;">That isn't going to happen, I think. Too much lore issues in the way. </span><span style="color: #0000ff;">Giving all three factions access to all 24 classes would be a bad idea. And yes, would be alot of lore issues.</span></b>Give exiles access to PvP gear. <span style="color: #33cc00;"><b> I agree, why not let them have these writs and PvP gear too? But make it cost twice as much, since they have far more targets. Maybe this would tempt them to come out of that cave once in a while and PvP with the rest of us. <span style="color: #0000ff;">That is a good idea Amphibia, but sadly, what is to stop an exiled guild from just farming each other for kills and tokens?</span></b></span></span></blockquote><span style="color: #33cc00;"><b>Replies are in green. </b></span></blockquote><span style="color: #0000ff;"><b>Replies in blue</b></span>

Amphibia
01-03-2008, 07:56 PM
<cite>Shadow_Viper wrote:</cite><blockquote><span class="postbody">Give exiles access to PvP gear. <span style="color: #33cc00;"><b> I agree, why not let them have these writs and PvP gear too? But make it cost twice as much, since they have far more targets. Maybe this would tempt them to come out of that cave once in a while and PvP with the rest of us. <span style="color: #0000ff;">That is a good idea Amphibia, but sadly, what is to stop an exiled guild from just farming each other for kills and tokens?</span></b></span></span></blockquote>I don't think that would be a problem, because exiles can't farm each other for anything other than kill counts as it is. If one exile kills another, no fame, coin or items is gained or lost. So if they get PvP gear, it would probably work that way still - they would need to kill players from either Qeynos or Freeport to get writ update for tokens. (Not commenting on the evac thing, because we've already gone over that too many times and should probably just agree to disagree at this point. )

Vydar
01-03-2008, 08:33 PM
<cite>Shadow_Viper wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><span class="postbody">Remove titles.  <span style="color: #33cc00;"><b>Great idea! Should have been done already, or at the very least changed them to either no fame loss via PvP death or allow those who don't want to participate to disable titles and all fame loss/gain. The title system is broken, and unfairly aimed at classes that have many and good escape abilites. It also rewards cowardice rather than real PvP skill. <span style="color: #0000ff;">I agree </span></b></span>Remove perma immunity. <span style="color: #33cc00;"><b>I agree, perma immunity is for home cities. Perhaps also docks, but never after an evac, <span style="color: #0000ff;">I agree as well.</span></b></span>Remove in combat evac's. <span style="color: #33cc00;"> <b>Remove evac entirely, I'd say. Or make them grey out if you are hit by a hostile player. Or alternatively, have evac take you to your binding point (like escape lockets), in which they will become so awkward to use that people will think twice before hitting the button. And add longer casting time, make it easy to interrupt and unable to be cast on the run. Also add 60 minute recast, so that they are equal to escape lockets.  <span style="color: #0000ff;">There is nothing wrong with evacs as there are, if you are having problems keeping a player from escaping from you I would suggest visiting your class boards and asking for advice. The class boards are really a great tool and should be used!  <span style="color: #ff0033;">Evac is fine how it is now, just take out the in combat evac's.  </span></span></b></span>Remove in combat run speed buffs, once engaged. <b> </b>Once engaged, everyone should run at 0% unless burning power on sprint.<b>  <span style="color: #33cc00;">This is fine as it is. The only classes that still have in combat running speed is bards, and they must be allowed to keep that to have a fair chance in PvP. </span><span style="color: #0000ff;">I agree with it being fine as is.  <span style="color: #ff0033;">The only problem with it is the racials that give the extra speed burst.  </span></span></b>Allow other factions into Haven, maintain city PvP rules. <span style="color: #33cc00;"><b>Yeah, why not? <span style="color: #0000ff;">Agree here too</span></b></span>Give all three factions all 24 classes.<b> <span style="color: #33cc00;">That isn't going to happen, I think. Too much lore issues in the way. </span><span style="color: #0000ff;">Giving all three factions access to all 24 classes would be a bad idea. And yes, would be alot of lore issues.  <span style="color: #ff0033;">I see no problems with it.  People that have been wanting to play another class that would find it more fun, now can.  More options= more fun choices for more people.  You a qeynosian?  Want to play Assassin?  Why is that a lore issue?  How about... a Freeport swashbuckler?  So Freeport can't have pirates?  There is no real lore issue.  And a game breaking mechanic vs lore?  I think lore loses.  I don't see any drawbacks to it at all.  Please explain.  </span></span></b>Give exiles access to PvP gear. <span style="color: #33cc00;"><b> I agree, why not let them have these writs and PvP gear too? But make it cost twice as much, since they have far more targets. Maybe this would tempt them to come out of that cave once in a while and PvP with the rest of us. <span style="color: #0000ff;">That is a good idea Amphibia, but sadly, what is to stop an exiled guild from just farming each other for kills and tokens?  <span style="color: #ff0033;">How would they farm each other?  Since they already don't get chest drops or anything, just continue that on in the manner in which it is.  And as for more targets, on the pvp servers there are almost as many active PvP'ers in exile as in either faction, so they don't really have MORE targets... at least not many.</span></span></b></span></span></blockquote><span style="color: #33cc00;"><b>Replies are in green. </b></span></blockquote><span style="color: #0000ff;"><b>Replies in blue</b></span></blockquote><b><span style="color: #ff0000;">Replies in red</span></b>

Eybietie
01-03-2008, 09:06 PM
<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>some of those are nerfs, fyi.</p><p>add these: </p><p>increase starting faction to 0</p><p>allow lower-level tokens to be used at some exchange rate for end-game tokens</p><p>Improve the pvp gear armor as it currently is almost all garbage compared to master crafted gear</p></blockquote>faction can be taken away entirely as it is now. lower level tokens should just be status items.this is the reason why i said above that faction can be taken awayentirely.soe dumped the faction idea. they also dumped lvl locking.get over it already.

HerbertWalker
01-03-2008, 09:19 PM
<p>A more solid definition of nerf, as it applies to us.</p><ul><li><div align="left">In <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_gaming" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">computer gaming</a>, a <b>nerf</b> is a change to the rules of a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_game" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">computer game</a> that weakens a certain object or ability.</div></li><li><div align="left">Among game developers, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMORPG" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">MMORPG</a> designers in particular are especially likely to nerf aspects of a game in order to maintain game balance. Occasionally a new feature (such as an item, class, or skill) may be made too powerful, too cheap, or too easily obtained to the extent that it unbalances the game system. This is sometimes due to an unforeseen bug or method of using or acquiring the object that was not considered by the developers.</div></li><li><div align="left">Nerfing may increase strategic depth. For example, there may be one strategy which dominates a game due to one particular game element being too powerful. By "nerfing" this one element, the game designer may allow multiple alternative strategies to come to the surface, creating better and more varied gameplay.</div></li></ul><p>So, nerfing can be good if it improves the game overall.   'Improved' is assumed to coincide with increased subscriptions, more revenue, and may not agree with your defintion of improving the game overall.</p><p>We've seen many good nerfs in EQ2 pvp.   Many of them ruined my fun.   For instance, I wish I could still bell hop my zero-immunity, in-combat, 'twinked' Q's all over Freeport noob zones, like we could during the first few weeks on Nagafen.   I enjoyed that.   They nerfed me good.   My favorite strategy that dominated got nerfed.</p><p>How about my characters with way more AA than they can spend?   Nerf.   Not as required as the bell hop nerf, but perhaps this nerf still improved the game - even though it disappointed me in particular.   At the time I made a lot of long posts complaining.  I think that they hit too broadly with many of their nerfs.   Like, this one.   At level 43 I don't think they need to be limiting my AA's to 1.5x lvl.</p><p>They swing a nerf paddle - not as precise as a bat.</p><p>I hope that the desire to "improve EQ2 PvP", even if it involves nerfs, has as one of its ultimate goals, to bring the marginallized classes much more into the fray.   I am sure that we would all enjoy that.</p>

Odawnus Haste
01-03-2008, 09:35 PM
<p>Just to let you guys know exile isn't a faction. We aren't aligned with anybody, not even other exiles for the most part.</p>

-Arctura-
01-03-2008, 09:49 PM
<cite>HerbertWalker wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>A more solid definition of nerf, as it applies to us.</p><ul><li><div align="left">In <a rel="nofollow" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_gaming" target="_blank">computer gaming</a>, a <b>nerf</b> is a change to the rules of a <a rel="nofollow" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_game" target="_blank">computer game</a> that weakens a certain object or ability.</div></li><li><div align="left">Among game developers, <a rel="nofollow" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMORPG" target="_blank">MMORPG</a> designers in particular are especially likely to nerf aspects of a game in order to maintain game balance. Occasionally a new feature (such as an item, class, or skill) may be made too powerful, too cheap, or too easily obtained to the extent that it unbalances the game system. This is sometimes due to an unforeseen bug or method of using or acquiring the object that was not considered by the developers.</div></li><li><div align="left">Nerfing may increase strategic depth. For example, there may be one strategy which dominates a game due to one particular game element being too powerful. By "nerfing" this one element, the game designer may allow multiple alternative strategies to come to the surface, creating better and more varied gameplay.</div></li></ul></blockquote>(( That sounds like the Micro$oft / Government / Corporate  'make-it-sound-good-so-people-dont-rise-up-and-overthrow-us' Definition.nerf = remove something

Bozidar
01-04-2008, 02:49 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><b></b>faction can be taken away entirely as it is now. lower level tokens should just be status items.this is the reason why i said above that faction can be taken awayentirely.soe dumped the faction idea. they also dumped lvl locking.get over it already.</blockquote>uhm... ok?  last i checked i still got faction for kills and tokens..

boonce
01-04-2008, 04:48 AM
<cite>-Arctura- wrote:</cite><blockquote><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="color: #ffff00;"><b>Nerf = Removing something from game after release to public servers,</b> </span><span style="font-size: x-small;">esp. a gameplay aspect that has been in effect for a considerable period of time, or is a launch feature.</span></span><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><span class="postbody"><strike>Remove titles. </strike>  <b><span style="color: #cc0000;">NERF</span></b><strike>Remove perma immunity.</strike>   </span><span class="postbody"><b><span style="color: #cc0000;">NERF</span></b></span><span class="postbody"> <strike>Remove in combat evac's.   </strike> </span><span class="postbody"><b><span style="color: #cc0000;">NERF, (and they already did this a long, long time ago. Incombat Evac-lockets dont work, despite their description)</span></b></span><span class="postbody"><strike>Remove in combat run speed buffs, once engaged.  Once engaged, everyone should run at 0% unless burning power on sprint.  </strike> </span><span class="postbody"><b><span style="color: #cc0000;">NERF</span></b></span><span class="postbody"><span style="color: #009900;"></span><span style="color: #009900;"><b>Allow other factions into Haven, maintain city PvP rules.</b></span><strike>Give all three factions all 24 classes.</strike> </span><span style="color: #cc0000;"><b>Paladins in Freeport, Necromancers in Qeynos? </b></span><span class="postbody"><strike>Give exiles access to PvP gear.</strike>  </span><span style="color: #cc0000;"><b>Exiles have advantages other alignments dont. First and foremost is having twice the number of pvp targets. If exiles DID get pvp gear, their token requirements should be Double those of Q or Freep pvp gear requirements, by default. EH?</b></span></blockquote>(( this Haven change is excellent, the rest are either nerfs or not really necessary to improve pvp.</blockquote>Actually, a nerf is something that affects a class or any person in an obviously negative manner (i say obviously because some things can be construed as nerfs to one person, but a buff to a different person of the same class).  I don't know where you got the idea that nerfs are removing something from the game.  I'm sure you wouldn't say removing the death tax/resurrection debuff isn't a nerf by any means to anyone, but it's still removing something from the game that's been there since the very beginning.Although I'm not disagreeing that he was, in fact, calling for nerfs.... Just pointing out that you don't know the definition of a nerf <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.

Eybietie
01-04-2008, 11:08 AM
<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><b></b>faction can be taken away entirely as it is now. lower level tokens should just be status items.this is the reason why i said above that faction can be taken awayentirely.soe dumped the faction idea. they also dumped lvl locking.get over it already.</blockquote>uhm... ok?  last i checked i still got faction for kills and tokens..</blockquote> yeah you still get faction but its useless items compared to what was added with eof/ rok. soe never implemented new items after their first initial faction idea went live with kos. that indicates to me that soe doesnt give much on the future faction idea...

MuliganVanJurai
01-04-2008, 11:34 AM
<p>Amen to opening all the classes to each faction.  You can easily fit this into lore.  Heck you can even rename them to make them less evil.  If you remember there are many names within the database from the initial release when we had to go through classes at 10 and 20. </p><p>Titles are stupid too.  Well, they at least cause some psychological issues with the players.  They seem to want to protect their title at all cost for whatever reason.</p><p>Pvp should be more encouraged as well.  I hate when all the Q's go hiding in instances while groups upon groups of FP's camp every sokokar post.  The RoK PvP gear is way over token'd (priced) so no one is really pvp'ing with exception of a few guild groups.</p><p>PvP is really close to being something great but it still has a few hindrances which mostly cost grief to newer players.</p>

Bloodfa
01-04-2008, 11:45 AM
You do know that once PvP has begun, whether you're on the attack or fighting an NPC and heal yourself just as you are attacked, racial movement bursts are greyed out, right?  Just like evac (there is no such thing as an in-combat evac anymore, hasn't been for quite a while now).  And opening a new tracking window if you've closed yours to track somebody. 

Roald
01-04-2008, 02:43 PM
<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>some of those are nerfs, fyi.</p><p>add these: </p><p>increase starting faction to 0</p><p>allow lower-level tokens to be used at some exchange rate for end-game tokens</p><p>Improve the pvp gear armor as it currently is almost all garbage compared to master crafted gear</p></blockquote><p>I agree. I went through T7 mostly grinding either in bonemire or new tunaria, but managed to get about 50 T7 tokens. But now im level 70, most RoK quest gear is nearly as good if not better than the PvP sets. I don't need the faction, so what am i to do with them?Maybe make it so that its 7 T3 tokens = 1 T8, 6 T4 = 1 T8, etc etc etc. It stupid for them for them to be useless.</p><p>About the faction, im pretty sure i saw a dev saying something regarding this and that it was going to be adressed,</p>

Gimet
01-04-2008, 03:06 PM
<p>If you remove perma-immunity...yo HAVE to increase the time in which you stay in immunity from 30 second to 40. As a Conjuror...summoning my pet already destroys some of my time. PLus th eothe rbillion buffs I get...30 seconds will not help me buff before whoever killed me has a chance to do it again.</p><p>And I say NO to giving all classes to all factions. Forget about Lore for a second...although that should be enough reason not to....</p><p>This is PLayer Versus Player....Pvp did what PvE didn't...it literally made Qeynos fight Freeport as they were meant to. There is a challenge to PvP, you only work with whatever classe sis avilable to your city...same with the other city. Exiling alone makes raiding easy for them....and hard for people who choose to stay Faction. I say go exile if you wnat to raid that much. Personally, I think it should be kept how it is. This is PvP. This is challenging...and Raiding is part of the challenge. And don't even begin to tell me it's impossible...I don't wnat SoE to remove another challenge from the PvP aspect unless it's to BALANCE classes...not to make extra weak, or extra strong because it can gorup with a God class when it's Evil.</p>

Zacarus
01-04-2008, 03:19 PM
They are simply NOT going to remove perma-immunity, no matter how much you disagree.They are simply NOT going to have good-aligned Shadownights on their PvP servers, no matter how much you disagree.The entire PvP token / gear system will be revamped in the next LU.  They are obviously aware the current implementation isn't working.I'm just crossing my fingers they implement these PvP-writs well.  Its just the spice this game needs right now.

Gimet
01-04-2008, 03:21 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shadow_Viper wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><span class="postbody">Remove titles.  <span style="color: #33cc00;"><b>Great idea! Should have been done already, or at the very least changed them to either no fame loss via PvP death or allow those who don't want to participate to disable titles and all fame loss/gain. The title system is broken, and unfairly aimed at classes that have many and good escape abilites. It also rewards cowardice rather than real PvP skill. <span style="color: #0000ff;">I agree </span></b></span>Remove perma immunity. <span style="color: #33cc00;"><b>I agree, perma immunity is for home cities. Perhaps also docks, but never after an evac, <span style="color: #0000ff;">I agree as well.</span></b></span>Remove in combat evac's. <span style="color: #33cc00;"> <b>Remove evac entirely, I'd say. Or make them grey out if you are hit by a hostile player. Or alternatively, have evac take you to your binding point (like escape lockets), in which they will become so awkward to use that people will think twice before hitting the button. And add longer casting time, make it easy to interrupt and unable to be cast on the run. Also add 60 minute recast, so that they are equal to escape lockets.  <span style="color: #0000ff;">There is nothing wrong with evacs as there are, if you are having problems keeping a player from escaping from you I would suggest visiting your class boards and asking for advice. The class boards are really a great tool and should be used!  <span style="color: #ff0033;">Evac is fine how it is now, just take out the in combat evac's.  </span></span></b></span>Remove in combat run speed buffs, once engaged. <b> </b>Once engaged, everyone should run at 0% unless burning power on sprint.<b>  <span style="color: #33cc00;">This is fine as it is. The only classes that still have in combat running speed is bards, and they must be allowed to keep that to have a fair chance in PvP. </span><span style="color: #0000ff;">I agree with it being fine as is.  <span style="color: #ff0033;">The only problem with it is the racials that give the extra speed burst.  </span></span></b>Allow other factions into Haven, maintain city PvP rules. <span style="color: #33cc00;"><b>Yeah, why not? <span style="color: #0000ff;">Agree here too</span></b></span>Give all three factions all 24 classes.<b> <span style="color: #33cc00;">That isn't going to happen, I think. Too much lore issues in the way. </span></b><span style="color: #0000ff;"><b>Giving all three factions access to all 24 classes would be a bad idea. And yes, would be alot of lore issues.  </b><span style="color: #ff0033;"><b>I see no problems with it.  People that have been wanting to play another class that would find it more fun, now can.  More options= more fun choices for more people.  You a qeynosian?  Want to play Assassin?  Why is that a lore issue?  How about... a Freeport swashbuckler?  So Freeport can't have pirates?  There is no real lore issue.  And a game breaking mechanic vs lore?  I think lore loses.  I don't see any drawbacks to it at all.  Please explain.</b> (Enlocke response)</span></span><span style="color: #99ff66;"> <b><span style="font-family: book antiqua,palatino;">I love how you completely ignored the TRUE evil classes. Necromancy in Lore has ruined MANY societies pushing them all to civil war against each other. Most famous one is the Erudites. You think Bayle would want that type of class roaming around her city? Shadowknights and Necromancers are both unholy, disease carryign lovers of death. How can that be seen as "Good" in any way? Qeynos gives writs to fend off undead in Antonica...contradictory when they have Shadowknights and Necromancers serving them right? Brawlers have NO mercy. They are Harbingers of Death...they smash people's faces in without a second thought to it. Qeynos does not need Bouncers....and FReeport does not want to Martial Law of Monks. Look at the gorup of Monks they fight in their outer district newbie zones. The Ashen Order is a pain to Freeport...they would figh tmonks but allow monks in their city? Paladins are goody two shoes...why would FREEport want someone who upholds the law roaming their streets. Law=lack of freedom to beta poeople up. I don't think the FReeportians would be happy. THAT is why Lore kills this...and I could give even more examples...Like Mystic and Defiler.(Enlocke Response End)</span></b></span>Give exiles access to PvP gear. <span style="color: #33cc00;"><b> I agree, why not let them have these writs and PvP gear too? But make it cost twice as much, since they have far more targets. Maybe this would tempt them to come out of that cave once in a while and PvP with the rest of us. <span style="color: #0000ff;">That is a good idea Amphibia, but sadly, what is to stop an exiled guild from just farming each other for kills and tokens?  <span style="color: #ff0033;">How would they farm each other?  Since they already don't get chest drops or anything, just continue that on in the manner in which it is.  And as for more targets, on the pvp servers there are almost as many active PvP'ers in exile as in either faction, so they don't really have MORE targets... at least not many.</span></span></b></span></span></blockquote><span style="color: #33cc00;"><b>Replies are in green. </b></span></blockquote><span style="color: #0000ff;"><b>Replies in blue</b></span></blockquote><b><span style="color: #ff0000;">Replies in red</span></b></blockquote>Replies in boldened funny font. :O And the putridly <span style="color: #99ff66;">neon-ish green</span>.

MuliganVanJurai
01-04-2008, 03:44 PM
<p>The basis I would like to see the classes open up would be to maybe even out the side in regards to physical numbers.  It is only natural that people would want offensive classes in PvP.  By opening up classes to each side you would have a better balance of players and more intriquing strategy.  Playing a ranger I see the other side... Qeynos does have offensive classes especially from a DPS perspective.  However, Qeynos lacks in tanks and healers mainly because our healing classes are not as pvp friendly as the opposing side.</p><p>Overall, I agree with a previous poster.  Right now, it is truly Qeynos vs. Freeport, good vs. evil,  thus giving a certain amount of pride to the gameplay.  Maybe this is the best way to arrange the class arrangement.</p><p>I believe the change which would make a greater impact would be to give better incentives to PvP'ing.  I look forward to things to come on this server.  It is by far the most fun i've had on a MMO in my 10 years of playing.</p>

Vydar
01-04-2008, 04:03 PM
So do away with perma immunity after death, and give a little longer than 30 seconds for time to rebuff, rez sickness to go away, etc.  After death, give a 2 min immunity.  After evac, give 30 seconds.So... Shadowknights are not supposed to be in Qeynos, ok I can see that.  Conjurors?  They have a very very important spell for raids that include repops... Call of the Hero.  Templars... very important for MT groups, as are Defilers and Coercers.  Both sides are a little crippled by not having access to all classes.  Exiling is not a good alternative for many players and the way they choose to play the game.Lore is nice and all, and on PvE servers, it has its place.  It doesn't matter, you can be guilded with and raid with people of opposite alignment.  On a PvP server, it does matter and does make a big difference.  While some people do care about it, the vast majority of players that I talk to would much rather be able to play their class of choice than give a crap if Bayle is unhappy with a Bruiser trotting through town.  And there still is in combat evac, as much as you'd like to turn a blind eye.  There are several remaining in combat evac's, and a few items/spells that just port you away, which also breaks combat, and then you can use an out of combat evac.  Also, the fact that I can engage you, kill you, and my buddy can stand there and wait to evac me if things go bad because HE hasn't engaged is stupid.  He should evac, and it should leave my [I cannot control my vocabulary] stranded for engaging.  I still don't understand how anyone can call what I'm asking for nerfs of any kind.  They do not hurt or cause any kind of negative affects on anyone's chosen class to play.  They are just mechanics that either need reworking or removing. 

Bloodfa
01-04-2008, 04:16 PM
<p>In-combat evac?  No, if your groupmate remains out of combat and then evacs the group, that's not the same.  They aren't involved in the combat; as soon as they take any action they are locked, meanwhile they can be pulled into PvP.  You would rather that if any one member of the group is in combat, the entire group is unable to evac or teleport?  Have you ever left somebody behind at a Sokokar post because they couldn't fly due to being locked in combat, whether to save yourself or pursue an enemy?  Now, instead of waiting for the minute or two for combat to clear, you'd rather leave the entire remaining group stuck and waiting for a gank squad to come in with no player able to get them out?  No Scout.  No Bard.  No Warden.  No Wizard.  No way.  That would simply make the gank squads completely unstoppable.  And I'm not talking about the 6-on-1 steamrolling as a gank squad, I mean the ones that won't stay and fight unless it's a 2-to-1 advantage against blues & greens.  That would be a horrible change.  All it would take is 1 guy to get the drop on, or bait them into, a single AOE, which would let a X's 2 come in while leaving everybody else stuck on the ground, grabbing their ankles, and coughing up tokens to the guys who really don't need them.</p><p>On the perma-immunity thing, yeah, I wish it would go bye-bye, but I don't see it happening any time soon.  </p>