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Shadow_Viper
01-02-2008, 11:32 PM
<p>Alot of people seem to think that track is overpowered, this is simply not the case. One must remember that each class has it's own abilities, advantages and disvantages, the trick is using the advantages and abilities of your class to exploit the disadvantages and weaknesses of an enemy class.</p><p>Track allows a scout to ambush, that is how scouts fight. Does this make track overpowered? Hardly.</p><p>If you want to make it rather difficult for a scout to ambush you, there is just two very simple things you must do. </p><p>1) Use see stealth/invis totems(Butterfly(stealth), Owl(invis) and Cat(both) )</p><p>2) Pay attention to your surroundings.</p><p>Do these two very simple things and a scout will find that it is alot more difficult to ambush you. When playing my non-scout characters, I do not get ambushed when following the two simple steps above. </p><p>I hope this thread has helped <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

BWLeeEllison
01-03-2008, 04:08 AM
<p><img src="http://z.about.com/d/altreligion/1/0/M/h/8/glossarypraying.jpg" alt="" width="200" height="234" border="0" /><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">Can I get an AMEN?</span></b></p>

Oneira
01-03-2008, 04:15 AM
I do not think track should be removed from pvp.  Nonetheless there are some things that are not right.  They are:1) infallible tracking by Spy Satellite.  You want tracking?  Fine, you see toons in your tracking window, you see a wisp that can lead you to them.  You see a red dot on your map of someone you've been tracking for a while, telling you exactly where they are anywhere in the zone?  No way.2) no way to counter tracking, which gets worse when the tracker uses vision totems (which, like, all trackers do), which means they can run around with over 50% speed increase and see everyone in their path, rendering stealth and invisibility all but useless in pvp.

Csky
01-03-2008, 05:44 AM
<p>if you think totems are the answer to tracking then give everyone "tracking totems" and see how long you sing that tune</p>

Saintedone
01-03-2008, 06:49 AM
<p>[Removed for Content]!!!!</p><p>I think tracking totems would work to even the field a bit. I also do not believe Player Characters should be trackable in a PVP game. (to easy)</p><p>Tinkered Item low level so even at lvl 20 track is usable for all</p><p>Totem again low lvl and progressive through the tiers usable by all</p><p>Charm slot ONLY track that can be used but we give up a slot for it, scout class have it as a button.</p><p> You would see a lot more deversity in classes in this EVERSCOUT2 game and make things hella intresting at the higher end tiers.</p><p>Or they could take out tracking Player Characters all together, Im open for the flames of corse but I've been ganked by the best scouts in EQ2 on the Vox server and dont really like nerfs so instead of nerfing scouts open it up for all classes, if there using skills then they shouldnt have any problem, if there sux gankers then they will role another class or die just like the rest of us.</p><p>Tracking in this game was never ment for PVP, I was in beta and the devs at the time said there wouldnt ever be pvp in the game so take out the ability to track player characters and even the field, or just the ability to track the other faction just like we cant message eachother.</p><p>My 2 cp Saintz</p>

Vydar
01-03-2008, 08:07 AM
<cite>Saintedone wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>[Removed for Content]!!!!</p><p>I think tracking totems would work to even the field a bit. I also do not believe Player Characters should be trackable in a PVP game. (to easy)</p><p>Tinkered Item low level so even at lvl 20 track is usable for all</p><p>Totem again low lvl and progressive through the tiers usable by all</p><p>Charm slot ONLY track that can be used but we give up a slot for it, scout class have it as a button.</p><p> You would see a lot more deversity in classes in this EVERSCOUT2 game and make things hella intresting at the higher end tiers.</p><p>Or they could take out tracking Player Characters all together, Im open for the flames of corse but I've been ganked by the best scouts in EQ2 on the Vox server and dont really like nerfs so instead of nerfing scouts open it up for all classes, if there using skills then they shouldnt have any problem, if there sux gankers then they will role another class or die just like the rest of us.</p><p>Tracking in this game was never ment for PVP, I was in beta and the devs at the time said there wouldnt ever be pvp in the game so take out the ability to track player characters and even the field, or just the ability to track the other faction just like we cant message eachother.</p><p>My 2 cp Saintz</p></blockquote>I'm sorry, but did you say you're on Vox?Where finding PvP is already a nightmare?  You can run around Jarsath for an hour, find no one.  Attack a single mob, find 2 people jumping you.Take out track, you take out our ability to find each other.Say hello to an even bigger ghost town than we have?

Elephanton
01-03-2008, 09:03 AM
<p>Funny, so scouts may not pay attention to surroundings (just keep the track open and you're good).Yet they tell all other classes "2LP and watch your surroundings".This is stupid, guys.</p><p>I have ranger and illusionist, it is so much easier to quest on my ranger - I never ever get jumped on due to my track always open.On my Illy, frankly I just tired to be scrolling the camera non-stop and just expect to die a few times an hour while I am questing.</p>

Vydar
01-03-2008, 09:04 AM
<cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Funny, so scouts may not pay attention to surroundings (just keep the track open and you're good).Yet they tell all other classes "2LP and what your surroundings".This is stupid, guys.</p><p>I have ranger and illusionist, it is so easier to quests on my ranger - I never ever get jumped on due to my track always open.On my Illy, frankly I just tired to be scrolling the camera non-stop and just expect to die a few times an hour while I am questing.</p></blockquote>Because track always works right?

BWLeeEllison
01-03-2008, 12:37 PM
<cite>Csky wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>if you think totems are the answer to tracking then give everyone "tracking totems" and see how long you sing that tune</p></blockquote><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">Quick, everyone get in line for your Ice Comet totems and Harm Touch totems!!!</span></b>

Bozidar
01-03-2008, 12:50 PM
<cite>BWLeeEllison wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Csky wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>if you think totems are the answer to tracking then give everyone "tracking totems" and see how long you sing that tune</p></blockquote><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">Quick, everyone get in line for your Ice Comet totems and Harm Touch totems!!!</span></b></blockquote>forget that, I want a manashield totem!!!

Shadow_Viper
01-03-2008, 07:19 PM
<cite>Oneira wrote:</cite><blockquote>2) no way to counter tracking, which gets worse when the tracker uses vision totems (which, like, all trackers do), which means they can run around with over 50% speed increase and see everyone in their path, rendering stealth and invisibility all but useless in pvp. </blockquote>I told you exactly how to counter track in my original post. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

Shadow_Viper
01-03-2008, 07:21 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><cite>Saintedone wrote:</cite></p><p><cite></cite>I'm sorry, but did you say you're on Vox?Where finding PvP is already a nightmare?  You can run around Jarsath for an hour, find no one.  Attack a single mob, find 2 people jumping you.Take out track, you take out our ability to find each other.Say hello to an even bigger ghost town than we have?</p></blockquote>Well said.

Shadow_Viper
01-03-2008, 07:26 PM
<cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Funny, so scouts may not pay attention to surroundings (just keep the track open and you're good).Yet they tell all other classes "2LP and whatch your surroundings".This is stupid, guys.</p><p>I have ranger and illusionist, it is so easier to quests on my ranger - I never ever get jumped on due to my track always open.On my Illy, frankly I just tired to be scrolling the camera non-stop and just expect to die a few times an hour while I am questing.</p></blockquote><p>Funny, when on my non-scout characters, and following my own advice. I never get ambushed. The only times I get ambushed is if I don't bother to take see stealth/invis totems with me or I stop paying attention to my surroundings.</p><p>So what you're basically saying is, you're too lazy to do two very simple things that will prevent your Illy from getting ambushed, and because of that, you want track nerfed/changed? <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

Armironhead
01-03-2008, 07:27 PM
<cite>Oneira wrote:</cite><blockquote>I do not think track should be removed from pvp.  Nonetheless there are some things that are not right.  They are:1) infallible tracking by Spy Satellite.  You want tracking?  Fine, you see toons in your tracking window, you see a wisp that can lead you to them.  You see a red dot on your map of someone you've been tracking for a while, telling you exactly where they are anywhere in the zone?  No way.2) no way to counter tracking, which gets worse when the tracker uses vision totems (which, like, all trackers do), which means they can run around with over 50% speed increase and see everyone in their path, rendering stealth and invisibility all but useless in pvp. </blockquote>introduce fallibility?  well fine -- as long as the same is done to the core specialties of the other toons.  Healing -- just not going to work all the time.  Taunts -- resistable.  Mana shield -- sometimes it just aint going to be there for you.

Elephanton
01-03-2008, 07:36 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Funny, so scouts may not pay attention to surroundings (just keep the track open and you're good).Yet they tell all other classes "2LP and watch your surroundings".This is stupid, guys.</p><p>I have ranger and illusionist, it is so much easier to quest on my ranger - I never ever get jumped on due to my track always open.On my Illy, frankly I just tired to be scrolling the camera non-stop and just expect to die a few times an hour while I am questing.</p></blockquote>Because track always works right?</blockquote>Not sure what do you mean, but yes it does - for me.

Taldier
01-03-2008, 08:48 PM
<cite>Shadow_Viper wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Alot of people seem to think that track is overpowered, this is simply not the case. One must remember that each class has it's own abilities, advantages and disvantages, the trick is using the advantages and abilities of your class to exploit the disadvantages and weaknesses of an enemy class.</p><p>Track allows a scout to ambush, that is how scouts fight. Does this make track overpowered? Hardly</p></blockquote><p>Tracking as a concept is not overpowered.  Occasionally it even seems to be underpowered, several times I have seen a q before the scout picks it up on track.  On other occasions they pick up an enemy from a ridiculous distance away.  This seems to be inconsistant.</p><p>More to the point, the overpowered part of track is the mapview.  The ability to know where someone is for hours as long as they stay in the same zone is utterly ridiculous.  It essentially means that if I kill a scout I have to leave the zone or else he will be able to track me indefinitely waiting for the right moment to take revenge. </p><p>Its impossible to be constantly ready to fight all the time, at some point if you want to accomplish anything you have to attack something, and thats when that scout whos been following you from across the zone for the past half hour is sure to strike.</p><p>Who cares about scouts not having to be as aware of their surrondings and being able to pick their targets more easily.  Thats what they do, they scout.  The problem is the orbital satellite uplink that they have in their pocket.</p><p>The simple solution is to give track some reasonable consistent range and update timer so that scouts can rely on it to always work and then take away the ridiculous mapview part of tracking.  If someone gets anywhere close to them they get a name, a direction, and a little yellow line.</p>

Taldier
01-03-2008, 08:49 PM
<p><cite>double post</cite></p>

Sightless
01-03-2008, 10:32 PM
<p>Taldier</p><p>You do realize if they're doing that, they can only track you, and not the dozens of other scouts out there hunting THEM? I would never do something like this unless I'm in a group.</p>

Saintedone
01-04-2008, 04:44 AM
<p>Vidar, yes i play on Vox and Im not saying take track out of the game Im saying take Player Character non faction out of the game.</p><p>You can still use track for npc's, your faction player characters just not another faction. </p><p>As far as a night mare on Vox for PvP I can log on anytime and get ganked and I run around as a cat half the time these days.</p><p>I find pvp everware I look maby not wars like on naggy but there a lot of gank squads up and running on all 3 sides and the griefers are out there in force more than ever.</p><p>If the scouts mone and quit so be it if there good scouts and know there class then they should be fine, plenty of stuff needs to be tracked in this game. THE GAME WILL BE MORE BALANCED DAY 1 AND WE ALL KNOW IT.</p><p>Again I dont want you to think Im whining because Im a wizzard and weve been nerfed into obscurity and watch amost every scout class out DPS us CA's + AA's. My only real gripe about the game is we should definately have CA resist gear on PVP servers that you dont need 2000 pvp tokens T6 and adorns that run 20p each to get or make before they start paying off. Resist rates are once again outta control and 109 AA's cant help, I know how to play my tune - Ive been here since BETA, I came to pvp on day 1, I dont agree with most of the nerfs theve put US ALL THROUGH. </p><p>Lets take a look at our buggest PVP server Naggy (hehe) its completely unbalanced in classes and its because of the one thing TRACK. Is this EVERQUEST2 or EVERSCOUT2??? </p><p>We all want a great pvp game, no matter the class and that takes ballance and we all have taken hit after hit and scouts need to take theres as well, God Bless the dev who has the balls to pull the trigger on PVP track.</p>

Badaxe Ba
01-04-2008, 05:20 PM
<cite>Saintedone wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Vidar, yes i play on Vox and Im not saying take track out of the game Im saying take Player Character non faction out of the game.</p><p>You can still use track for npc's, your faction player characters just not another faction. </p><p>As far as a night mare on Vox for PvP I can log on anytime and get ganked and I run around as a cat half the time these days.</p><p>I find pvp everware I look maby not wars like on naggy but there a lot of gank squads up and running on all 3 sides and the griefers are out there in force more than ever.</p><p>If the scouts mone and quit so be it if there good scouts and know there class then they should be fine, plenty of stuff needs to be tracked in this game. THE GAME WILL BE MORE BALANCED DAY 1 AND WE ALL KNOW IT.</p><p>Again I dont want you to think Im whining because Im a wizzard and weve been nerfed into obscurity and watch amost every scout class out DPS us CA's + AA's. My only real gripe about the game is we should definately have CA resist gear on PVP servers that you dont need 2000 pvp tokens T6 and adorns that run 20p each to get or make before they start paying off. Resist rates are once again outta control and 109 AA's cant help, I know how to play my tune - Ive been here since BETA, I came to pvp on day 1, I dont agree with most of the nerfs theve put US ALL THROUGH. </p><p>Lets take a look at our buggest PVP server Naggy (hehe) its completely unbalanced in classes and its because of the one thing TRACK. Is this EVERQUEST2 or EVERSCOUT2??? </p><p>We all want a great pvp game, no matter the class and that takes ballance and we all have taken hit after hit and scouts need to take theres as well, God Bless the dev who has the balls to pull the trigger on PVP track.</p></blockquote><p>Nonscout class?  /invite scout.  Easiest solution ever, doesn't even require you to buy visibility tokens.</p>

Bloodfa
01-04-2008, 06:03 PM
<p>I'm sorry, but if you're out soloing and you die ... you've really got nobody else to blame but yourself.  Accept it, you <b><u>chose</u></b> to go out solo and died.  What's the difference between somebody seeing you on track and getting the drop on you or somebody seeing you with a totem, and hitting Pact of the Cheetah so they can burn you down?  Got a pretty decent PC?  You can see toons about as far as tracking picks up.  Click on them, look at their buffs, see if they're heroic, what they con to you, which side they're on.  It's really not that hard.  Honest.</p><p>If you can't get a group, get a guild.  If you are antisocial, well, here comes the penalty portion of a multiplayer game.  I don't recall Battlefield 2 making a special dispensation for those that want to play a lone wolf so they are arty-proof.  Adapt.  Somebody bushwhacks you when you've got nobody to call for backup ... just watch the news to see it happen in real life.  Some upper class twentysomething decides he's going to head into the "dangerous" part of town, maybe looking for a little action, maybe for a thrill, maybe curiousity, maybe stupidity, and ends up getting mugged and beaten, you gotta say "what the hell was he doing under the bridge, alone, in the first place?"  Going it alone means you're going to be at a greater risk.  Some are better at handling it than others, and some are better in a group than others.  </p><p>You guys know that the tracking window closes when you select a target to track, right?  And that you can't tell if there are others coming in or you're going into a trap unless you cancel the map and re-open tracking?  And that you have to wait for the next tracking update (once per tick, I believe)?  And if your quarry has put enough distance between you and them so that they <i>don't</i> show up on tracking, you're not able to magically reacquire the track?  Or do you just guess at what it's like to have tracking, because there are so many misconceptions out there that I have to wonder.  </p><p>And Bozidar, put me in for a satchel full of Manashield Totems. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Shadow_Viper
01-04-2008, 08:56 PM
<cite>Saintedone wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Vidar, yes i play on Vox and Im not saying take track out of the game Im saying take Player Character non faction out of the game.</p><p>You can still use track for npc's, your faction player characters just not another faction. </p><p>As far as a night mare on Vox for PvP I can log on anytime and get ganked and I run around as a cat half the time these days.</p><p>I find pvp everware I look maby not wars like on naggy but there a lot of gank squads up and running on all 3 sides and the griefers are out there in force more than ever.</p><p>If the scouts mone and quit so be it if there good scouts and know there class then they should be fine, plenty of stuff needs to be tracked in this game. THE GAME WILL BE MORE BALANCED DAY 1 AND WE ALL KNOW IT.</p><p>Again I dont want you to think Im whining because Im a wizzard and weve been nerfed into obscurity and watch amost every scout class out DPS us CA's + AA's. My only real gripe about the game is we should definately have CA resist gear on PVP servers that you dont need 2000 pvp tokens T6 and adorns that run 20p each to get or make before they start paying off. Resist rates are once again outta control and 109 AA's cant help, I know how to play my tune - Ive been here since BETA, I came to pvp on day 1, I dont agree with most of the nerfs theve put US ALL THROUGH. </p><p>Lets take a look at our buggest PVP server Naggy (hehe) its completely unbalanced in classes and its because of the one thing TRACK. Is this EVERQUEST2 or EVERSCOUT2??? </p><p>We all want a great pvp game, no matter the class and that takes ballance and we all have taken hit after hit and scouts need to take theres as well, God Bless the dev who has the balls to pull the trigger on PVP track.</p></blockquote><p>If track is changed so it can't be used to track an enemy player. Then other simular changes will also need to be made. A healer's heals will need to be changed so they can't be used to heal the damage done by an enemy player. A tank's taunts will need to be changed so they can't be used on an enemy player, and finally a mage's nukes will need to be changed so they can't be cast on an enemy player. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>Track isn't that hard to counter, it really isn't. I've told you two very simple ways you can counter track and prevent yourself from getting ambushed. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>If you're still having problems dealing with scouts, I would suggest making a post in your class boards requesting advice and tactics on how your class can better exploit the disadvantages and weaknesses of a scout. The class boards are really very useful and I highly suggest using them. Thanks to the class boards I've gotten alot of different AA specs for my various characters, as an example. </p>

Shangu
01-04-2008, 10:24 PM
nothing wrong with track.  move on.  there are bigger issues to worry about like getting rid of whiners.  nerf the whiners.

toenukl
01-05-2008, 03:04 AM
<cite>Shadow_Viper wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>If track is changed so it can't be used to track an enemy player. Then other simular changes will also need to be made. A healer's heals will need to be changed so they can't be used to heal the damage done by an enemy player. A tank's taunts will need to be changed so they can't be used on an enemy player, and finally a mage's nukes will need to be changed so they can't be cast on an enemy player. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote>Why do people keep using this excuse? That's a whole different ballgame. Heals, damage, and taunts are abilities used in PvP combat. Tracking is a TOOL used to find targets. It is not a combat skill. You can not call for removal of other classes combat skills because they call for removal of your tool that is used to make getting tokens easier. Now, if someone said "Take away all scouts damage abilities" or "Remove ranged attacks from Rangers" or "Remove all stifles/stuns from Swashy/Brigs" or "Remove stealth attacks from Assassins" THEN you could call for removal of heals, taunts, and nukes.Take away tracking from a scout and they still have many abilities that make them deadly in PvP, moreso than any other classes. Scouts still have massive damage, taunts and/or deaggros, poisons that do tons of different things (FrOm mana drain, to slow, to heals, stealth), evac to run if they know they won't have a chance, and chain armor.I'm not even one that wants nerfs. I'm tired of the nerfs. I have a brigand alt of my own. However, I'm more tired of people using this very <u><b><span style="font-size: small;">very</span></b></u><b><span style="font-size: small;"> </span></b>lame example so had to get this off my chest. And the best solution is a PvP merchant sold tracking totem that has a long recast and high status cost. Solved.

Warr
01-05-2008, 04:27 AM
Removing track from working on player characters is the dumbest idea ever, and I play a warden and illy. But yes, two things I would like to see (and have seen one already).1) a tinkered trackWe're already able to do everything else - DF, rez, stealth, port (even though the wormhole generators are mostly POINTLESS, sorry, another thread for that), summon mounts, etc. Only thing we can't do is track. It doesn't have to be perfect, since they never are, but at least a 75% or even 99% chance to detect enemy tracks.2) +vs tracking itemsI've seen one of these items already and think its a really good idea. Hell make them adornments if you have to. +vs tracking and +tracking. Because really,  if you're running around hunting, some people are going to be more careful about covering their tracks than others.

toenukl
01-05-2008, 04:21 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>Removing track from working on player characters is the dumbest idea ever, and I play a warden and illy. But yes, two things I would like to see (and have seen one already).1) a tinkered trackWe're already able to do everything else - DF, rez, stealth, port (even though the wormhole generators are mostly POINTLESS, sorry, another thread for that), summon mounts, etc. Only thing we can't do is track. It doesn't have to be perfect, since they never are, but at least a 75% or even 99% chance to detect enemy tracks.2) +vs tracking itemsI've seen one of these items already and think its a really good idea. Hell make them adornments if you have to. +vs tracking and +tracking. Because really,  if you're running around hunting, some people are going to be more careful about covering their tracks than others.</blockquote>Great ideas and a good way to balance things out w/o nerfing.

Shadow_Viper
01-05-2008, 04:41 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shadow_Viper wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>If track is changed so it can't be used to track an enemy player. Then other simular changes will also need to be made. A healer's heals will need to be changed so they can't be used to heal the damage done by an enemy player. A tank's taunts will need to be changed so they can't be used on an enemy player, and finally a mage's nukes will need to be changed so they can't be cast on an enemy player. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote>Why do people keep using this excuse? That's a whole different ballgame. Heals, damage, and taunts are abilities used in PvP combat. Tracking is a TOOL used to find targets. It is not a combat skill. You can not call for removal of other classes combat skills because they call for removal of your tool that is used to make getting tokens easier. Now, if someone said "Take away all scouts damage abilities" or "Remove ranged attacks from Rangers" or "Remove all stifles/stuns from Swashy/Brigs" or "Remove stealth attacks from Assassins" THEN you could call for removal of heals, taunts, and nukes.Take away tracking from a scout and they still have many abilities that make them deadly in PvP, moreso than any other classes. Scouts still have massive damage, taunts and/or deaggros, poisons that do tons of different things (FrOm mana drain, to slow, to heals, stealth), evac to run if they know they won't have a chance, and chain armor.I'm not even one that wants nerfs. I'm tired of the nerfs. I have a brigand alt of my own. However, I'm more tired of people using this very <u><b><span style="font-size: small;">very</span></b></u><b><span style="font-size: small;"> </span></b>lame example so had to get this off my chest. And the best solution is a PvP merchant sold tracking totem that has a long recast and high status cost. Solved. </blockquote><p>A healer's heals, a tank's taunts and a mage's nukes are TOOLs that those classes can use, just like a scout's track is a tool(also see abilitiy). A class defining "tools".</p><p>If you change one archtype's "tool", you'll need to make simular changes to the other archtypes' "tools". It is that simple. </p>

Norrsken
01-05-2008, 04:56 PM
<cite>Shadow_Viper wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shadow_Viper wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>If track is changed so it can't be used to track an enemy player. Then other simular changes will also need to be made. A healer's heals will need to be changed so they can't be used to heal the damage done by an enemy player. A tank's taunts will need to be changed so they can't be used on an enemy player, and finally a mage's nukes will need to be changed so they can't be cast on an enemy player. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote>Why do people keep using this excuse? That's a whole different ballgame. Heals, damage, and taunts are abilities used in PvP combat. Tracking is a TOOL used to find targets. It is not a combat skill. You can not call for removal of other classes combat skills because they call for removal of your tool that is used to make getting tokens easier. Now, if someone said "Take away all scouts damage abilities" or "Remove ranged attacks from Rangers" or "Remove all stifles/stuns from Swashy/Brigs" or "Remove stealth attacks from Assassins" THEN you could call for removal of heals, taunts, and nukes.Take away tracking from a scout and they still have many abilities that make them deadly in PvP, moreso than any other classes. Scouts still have massive damage, taunts and/or deaggros, poisons that do tons of different things (FrOm mana drain, to slow, to heals, stealth), evac to run if they know they won't have a chance, and chain armor.I'm not even one that wants nerfs. I'm tired of the nerfs. I have a brigand alt of my own. However, I'm more tired of people using this very <u><b><span style="font-size: small;">very</span></b></u><b><span style="font-size: small;"> </span></b>lame example so had to get this off my chest. And the best solution is a PvP merchant sold tracking totem that has a long recast and high status cost. Solved. </blockquote><p>A healer's heals, a tank's taunts and a mage's nukes are TOOLs that those classes can use, just like a scout's track is a tool(also see abilitiy). A class defining "tools".</p><p>If you change one archtype's "tool", you'll need to make simular changes to the other archtypes' "tools". It is that simple. </p></blockquote>Now the interresting thing here is;Healers heal. But so do pallies and dirges. and necros. And sks. Tanks taunts. (Or rather tanks) and so do necros, conjies, swashbucklers and brigands. and even inquisitors. And coercers. Mages nukes. Uhm. I dont think I even have to go into this one.Scouts track? Hmm. How many other classes can track other than scouts? None. I smell an imbalance here.

toenukl
01-05-2008, 08:08 PM
<cite>Shadow_Viper wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>A healer's heals, a tank's taunts and a mage's nukes are TOOLs that those classes can use, just like a scout's track is a tool(also see abilitiy). A class defining "tools".</p><p>If you change one archtype's "tool", you'll need to make simular changes to the other archtypes' "tools". It is that simple. </p></blockquote>I said they were combat abilities, tracking is NOT a combat ability. It's an ability that is a tool to find PvP. It does not effect combat once engaged. All the others you said ARE used in combat. That argument makes absolutely no sense at all and is quite possibly the silliest thing I've ever read in the forums.

Psych
01-05-2008, 09:43 PM
Shadow Viper I mean no offense but your arguments never make any sense at all.Track is an ability with no upgrades and is given automatically with chosen class. Much like stealth, much like see stealth, see invis, and many other abilities classes gain that are unique to that archtype and yet are duplicated on plenty of items.The fae jump can be gained from tinker boots. This doesnt mean every classes racial abilities get put on tinker items. Just fae, and thats it. Removing track from scouts doesnt mean removing anything from anyone else.If you really want to be technical with that argument then when focus aim got dropped they would have to remove a buff from everyone else! They didnt. Because it was done to balance things so that the rangers were even.Just like chaning PVP track would make it more even...its not something that requires a gamewide nerf because the others already dont have track. So taking away some of scouts tracking ability still leaves them on top.Adding totems still means they save loads of money. Oh wait SOW is on a totem. hey! i want scout poisons on a totem right?! Cause to be fair its gotta since SOW is there right!?!No. It doesnt. Which is why a track totem wouldnt mean giving everyone manashield totems.Also wow...someone comparing an advanced AA spec ability to a level 1 free ability...wow...Maybe later we can talk about how volcanoes and kleenex are alike...and then play with the lincon logs and has such a great time yay...<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

Sightless
01-05-2008, 09:57 PM
<cite>Psych wrote:</cite><blockquote>Shadow Viper I mean no offense but your arguments never make any sense at all.Track is an ability with no upgrades and is given automatically with chosen class. Much like stealth, much like see stealth, see invis, and many other abilities classes gain that are unique to that archtype and yet are duplicated on plenty of items.The fae jump can be gained from tinker boots. This doesnt mean every classes racial abilities get put on tinker items. Just fae, and thats it. Removing track from scouts doesnt mean removing anything from anyone else.If you really want to be technical with that argument then when focus aim got dropped they would have to remove a buff from everyone else! They didnt. Because it was done to balance things so that the rangers were even.Just like chaning PVP track would make it more even...its not something that requires a gamewide nerf because the others already dont have track. So taking away some of scouts tracking ability still leaves them on top.Adding totems still means they save loads of money. Oh wait SOW is on a totem. hey! i want scout poisons on a totem right?! Cause to be fair its gotta since SOW is there right!?!No. It doesnt. Which is why a track totem wouldnt mean giving everyone manashield totems.Also wow...someone comparing an advanced AA spec ability to a level 1 free ability...wow...Maybe later we can talk about how volcanoes and kleenex are alike...and then play with the lincon logs and has such a great time yay...<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote><p>Your bias shines as much as Vipers. Rangers are not even now, not even close. Once they fix resists, things are going to be bad for Rangers.</p><p>In EQ1 the Ranger was the ONLY class that could track. It was what they did, it was their class defining ability that went hand in hand with their bow. In every fantasy setting that has Rangers, they're the trackers. I used to hunt a lot before I had kids, and I could track very well. Once I was on your trail, I could follow you unless you swam down stream of a river, creek, across a huge lake, et cetera. Or if you walked miles across rock. Step in grass, through bushes, et cetera and I could follow you like a blood hound. Since I played Dungeons and Dragons in the 80s, I've always played Rangers because that is who I am. But most of my Rangers have always been melee Rangers, and I tried that in EQ2, and it didn't work out well. I'd love for them to allow me to change all of my bow attacks into melee attacks. But that's just a personal rant.</p><p>As for the top dog, I have to disagree that all scouts are on top. But that's a debate for a different thread. But if you take away my Rangers track, I want teleports. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>What cracks me up is you people really think no tracking would some how make you immune to PvP, or hard to find. You do realize that people like me knows every quest mob, questing route, best harvesting spots, and hunting spots in virtually every zone our level right? With a Chokadai(sp?) Totem I could cover an entire zone, including the large RoK zones in a very short amount of time. I'm still going to find you, but the kicker is, you're going to have a much harder time with me because you can't just pick up a tracker to find me.</p><p>I'm all for removing track for my Ranger. It's painfully hard for me to follow a group that has a tracker, well I said painfully hard, I meant impossible. I'd love for them to remove track, because I could wait and watch a group engage mobs and kill the entire group easier because you can't see me coming without track. So for the benefit of my Ranger, remove track, PLEASE! But I'd miss it on my Warlock because scouts are free tokens for me when I play my Warlock.</p>

firedawg9
01-07-2008, 12:46 AM
I think its ridiculous that all scouts get track.  It should be limited to predators and maybe druids.  They really need to take the ability to track lock someone on the map.  If you have the ability to track you should have to work a little and not be lazy and follow a red dot on your map.  Anyone that says that track is not over powered is in pure denial.  Nagafen is dominated by scout classes and majority of the high ranking players are scouts.  I think evac needs to be nerfed as well.  They should make scout evac similiar to wizards and wardens where it can be interupted 100 times easier.  I laugh when people say just invite a scout.  Most scouts want to pvp solo due to the ability to easily jump and gank someone.  I know when im on my brigand I prefer to solo and I will be the first to say its ridiculously easy playing a scout than a non scout class due to track and evac both being overpowered. 

BWLeeEllison
01-07-2008, 05:53 AM
<cite>firedawg911 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think its ridiculous that all scouts get track.  It should be limited to predators and maybe druids.  They really need to take the ability to track lock someone on the map.  If you have the ability to track you should have to work a little and not be lazy and follow a red dot on your map.  Anyone that says that track is not over powered is in pure denial.  <b>Nagafen is dominated by scout classes and <span style="font-size: x-small;">majority of the high ranking players are scouts</span></b>.  I think evac needs to be nerfed as well.  They should make scout evac similiar to wizards and wardens where it can be interupted 100 times easier.  I laugh when people say just invite a scout.  Most scouts want to pvp solo due to the ability to easily jump and gank someone.  I know when im on my brigand I prefer to solo and I will be the first to say its ridiculously easy playing a scout than a non scout class due to track and evac both being overpowered.  </blockquote><p><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">Supposition 1: <span style="font-size: medium;color: #9900cc;"><i>QUANTITY</i></span>For Quantity of Kills, I will refer to the leader board that reflects solely the sheer number of kills acquired in PvP combat.  I will only do the statistics for my server, Nagafen, but if someone wishes to gather the information for the other PvP servers, please feel free to post your results here for comparison (world wide statistics might also be nice). </span></b></p><p><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">The top 100 "high ranking players" (according to the <a href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/leaderboards/bobLeaderboardReport.action?report=most_pvp_kills" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Most PvP Kills Leaderboard for Nagafen</a>, as of Jan 7, 200<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span></b><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;"><span style="color: #ff0000;">Assassin 10</span><span style="color: #0033ff;">Berserker 3</span><span style="color: #ff0000;">Brigand 10</span><span style="color: #0033ff;">Bruiser 4</span><span style="color: #ff9900;">Coercer 1Conjuror 2</span></span></b><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;"><span style="color: #ff0000;">Dirge 3</span><span style="color: #00cc00;">Fury 7</span><span style="color: #0033ff;">Guardian 4</span><span style="color: #ff9900;">Illusionist 1</span><span style="color: #00cc00;">Inquisitor 2</span><span style="color: #0033ff;">Monk 3</span><span style="color: #ff9900;">Necromancer 1</span><span style="color: #0033ff;">Paladin 1</span><span style="color: #ff0000;">Ranger 14</span><span style="color: #0033ff;">Shadow Knight 3</span><span style="color: #ff0000;">Swashbuckler 13</span><span style="color: #00cc00;">Templar 3</span><span style="color: #ff0000;">Troubador 4</span></span></b><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;"><span style="color: #00cc00;">Warden 7</span><span style="color: #ff9900;">Warlock 3Wizard 1</span></span></b></p><p><b><span style="font-size: medium;color: #0099ff;font-family: Comic Sans MS;">By Archetype   <span style="color: #ff0000;">Scout 54%</span> || <span style="color: #0033ff;">Warrior 18%</span> || <span style="color: #ff9900;">Mage 9%</span> || <span style="color: #00cc00;">Priest 19% **   </span><span style="color: #0099ff;">** Special Note:  The only two classes not represented in the top 100 for sheer number of kill       </span></span></b><b><span style="font-size: medium;color: #0099ff;font-family: Comic Sans MS;"><span style="color: #0099ff;">are <span style="color: #00cc00;">Mystic</span> and </span><span style="color: #00cc00;">Defiler</span><span style="color: #00ccff;">.</span></span></b></p><p><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;"><b>Supposition 2: <i><span style="font-size: medium;color: #9900cc;">QUALITY</span></i>For Quality of Kills, I will refer to the leader board that reflects efficiency of PvP combat as measured by KvD.  Again, I will only do the statistics for my server, Nagafen, but if someone wishes to gather the information for the other PvP servers, please feel free to post your results here for comparison (world wide statistics might also be nice).</b></span></b></p><p><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">The top 100 "high ranking players" (according to the <b><a href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/leaderboards/bobLeaderboardReport.action?report=highest_pvp_kd_ ratio" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Highest PvP Kill vs Death Ratio Leaderboard for Nagafen</a></b></span></b><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">, as of Jan 7, 200<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><span style="color: #ff0000;">Assassin 5</span><span style="color: #0033ff;">Berserker 1</span><span style="color: #ff0000;">Brigand 7</span><span style="color: #0033ff;">Bruiser 3</span><span style="color: #00cc00;">Defiler 4</span></span></b><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;"><span style="color: #ff0000;">Dirge 3</span><span style="color: #00cc00;">Fury 6</span><span style="color: #0033ff;">Guardian 6</span><span style="color: #ff9900;">Illusionist 1</span><span style="color: #66cc00;">Inquisitor 2</span><span style="color: #0033ff;">Monk 2</span><span style="color: #00cc00;">Mystic 3</span></span></b><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;"><span style="color: #ff9900;">Necromancer 1</span><span style="color: #ff0000;">Ranger 12</span><span style="color: #0033ff;">Shadow Knight 3</span><span style="color: #ff0000;">Swashbuckler 13</span><span style="color: #00cc00;">Templar 3</span><span style="color: #ff0000;">Troubador 10</span><span style="color: #00cc00;">Warden 13</span><span style="color: #ff9900;">Warlock 1Wizard 1</span></span></b></p><p><b><span style="font-size: medium;color: #0099ff;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">By Archetype   <span style="color: #ff0000;">Scout 50%</span> || <span style="color: #0033ff;">Warrior 15%</span> || <span style="color: #ff9900;">Mage 4%</span> || <span style="color: #00cc00;">Priest 31%</span> **   ** Special Note:  The only three classes not represented in the top 100 for KvD efficiency       are <span style="color: #ff9900;">Conjurer</span>, <span style="color: #ff9900;">Coercer</span>, and <span style="color: #0033ff;">Paladin</span>.</span></b></p><p><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: Comic Sans MS;">Supposition 3:  <span style="font-size: medium;color: #9900cc;"><i>CLASS POWER</i><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;">For class power (or efficiency, efficacy, competency, whatever you wish to call it), I took the end result of both leader boards and averaged it.  X amount of a given class ranked in the top 100 KvD (Quality) while Y amount of the same class were able to get ranked in the top 100 Kill Totals (Quantity) which should approximate to Z power rating for said class.  This number is only for comparative purposes, and given the totals are based on leaderboard totals which may or may not change from day to day, I am not responsible for accuracy.  This data is a visual aid only. </span></span></span></b></p><p><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #ff0000;font-family: Comic Sans MS;">Assassin 7.5%<span style="color: #0033ff;">Berserker 2%</span><span style="color: #ff0000;">Brigand 8.5%</span><span style="color: #0033ff;">Bruiser 3.5%</span></span></b><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #ff9900;font-family: Comic Sans MS;">Coercer 0.5%</span></b><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #ff0000;font-family: Comic Sans MS;"><span style="color: #00cc00;"><span style="color: #ff9900;">Conjuror 1%</span>Defiler 2%</span><span style="color: #ff0000;">Dirge 3%</span><span style="color: #00cc00;">Fury 6.5%</span><span style="color: #0033ff;">Guardian 5%<span style="color: #ff9900;">Illusionist 1%</span></span><span style="color: #66cc00;">Inquisitor 2%</span><span style="color: #0033ff;">Monk 2.5%</span><span style="color: #00cc00;">Mystic 1.5%</span><span style="color: #ff9900;">Necromancer 1%</span><span style="color: #0033ff;">Paladin 0.5%</span></span></b><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #ff0000;font-family: Comic Sans MS;"><span style="color: #ff9900;"></span><span style="color: #ff0000;">Ranger 13%</span><span style="color: #0033ff;">Shadow Knight 3%</span><span style="color: #ff0000;">Swashbuckler 13%</span><span style="color: #00cc00;">Templar 3%</span><span style="color: #ff0000;">Troubador 7%</span><span style="color: #00cc00;">Warden 10%</span><span style="color: #ff9900;">Warlock 2%Wizard 1%</span></span></b></p><b><span style="font-family: Comic Sans MS;"><span style="font-size: medium;color: #0099ff;">By Archetype   <span style="color: #ff0000;">Scout 52%</span> || <span style="color: #0033ff;">Warrior 16.5%</span> || <span style="color: #ff9900;">Mage 6.5%</span> || <span style="color: #00cc00;">Priest 25%</span></span></span></b><:AtomicElement id=ms__id2717 mce_serialized="4"> <p><b><span style="font-family: Comic Sans MS;"><span style="font-size: small;color: #ff0000;"><span style="color: #0033ff;"><span style="color: #0099ff;">By the data I have gathered, roughly half of the top 100 killers, the top 100 survivors, on the server are indeed scouts. Roughly 1 in 5 of the top 100 killers are priest classes, but when it comes to survivability, priests soar to nearly a third of the top 100 survivors.  Warrior classes are about 1 in 5 or 1 in 6 of the top 100 killers and survivors.  Only 1 in 10 of the top 100 killers are mages, however, mages fall sadly to less than 1 in 20 of the top 100 surivors.</span></span></span></span></b></p><p><b><span style="font-family: Comic Sans MS;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="color: #0099ff;">Now before anyone goes off on a tangent, I would like to point out that there is a DEFINITIVE GLOAT of scouts on the server, and this burgeoning overpopulation lends itself to a skewing of the data.  Add to this the fact that there is no way to accurately account for solo play contributing to KvD.</span></span></span></b></p><p><b><span style="font-family: Comic Sans MS;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="color: #0099ff;">These numbers did open my eyes to a few things, but they do not indicate to me that Sony needs to change anything about PvP other than to make the other archetypes more attractive to the player base.  In the old game, Sony used to set up EXP bonuses for content they were showing was not being played.  They might consider doing the same here.  /shrug.</span><span style="color: #ff0000;"></span></span></span></b></p>

Amphibia
01-07-2008, 06:30 AM
<cite>firedawg911 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think its ridiculous that all scouts get track.  It should be limited to predators and maybe druids.  They really need to take the ability to track lock someone on the map.  If you have the ability to track you should have to work a little and not be lazy and follow a red dot on your map.  Anyone that says that track is not over powered is in pure denial.  Nagafen is dominated by scout classes and majority of the high ranking players are scouts.  I think evac needs to be nerfed as well.  They should make scout evac similiar to wizards and wardens where it can be interupted 100 times easier.  I laugh when people say just invite a scout.  Most scouts want to pvp solo due to the ability to easily jump and gank someone.  I know when im on my brigand I prefer to solo and I will be the first to say its ridiculously easy playing a scout than a non scout class due to track and evac both being overpowered.  </blockquote>So true.

Dalwar
01-07-2008, 07:58 AM
Hey. One question... there is pvp item that gives +5 to track avoidance any idea if it works ? or just another junk droped by soe ? Scouts - brig swashy... easy mode pvp ... the worst thing is that even noob can get loads of tokens so uber armour and uber weapon because they got track they can choose opponents they can keep farming bots and low lvl that harvesting and doing quests its just lame soe keep bumping up scouts... Soe shoudl take away evac and track from them or double the costs of pvp items and lower the drop rate of gear for scouts (and stop adding the [Removed for Content] mesmerize procs to scout chain ... the worst idea ever)

BWLeeEllison
01-07-2008, 08:11 AM
<cite>Dalwar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hey.One question... there is pvp item that gives +5 to track avoidance any idea if it works ? or just another junk droped by soe ?Scouts - brig swashy... easy mode pvp ... the worst thing is that even noob can get loads of tokens so uber armour and uber weapon because they got track they can choose opponents they can keep farming bots and low lvl that harvesting and doing quests its just lame soe keep bumping up scouts...Soe shoudl take away evac and track from them or double the costs of pvp items and lower the drop rate of gear for scouts (and stop adding the [I cannot control my vocabulary] mesmerize procs to scout chain ... the worst idea ever)</blockquote><p><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">If track and evac go, Sony will have to replace track with a CA line, and additionally, the warrior classes will have to lose Rescue, the mage classes will have to lose Magi Shielding (which does become progressively effective at higher levels, I might add), and healers need to lose their emergency heals they get at 25 or so.</span></b></p><p><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: Comic Sans MS;">The entire design of the game grants advantages and disadvantages to each class, subclass, and archetype.  No one needs nerfed on such a large scale, but if you do bring such a huge nerf to the table, it has to fall evenly across the board.</span></b></p>

Amphibia
01-07-2008, 08:34 AM
<cite>BWLeeEllison wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dalwar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hey.One question... there is pvp item that gives +5 to track avoidance any idea if it works ? or just another junk droped by soe ?Scouts - brig swashy... easy mode pvp ... the worst thing is that even noob can get loads of tokens so uber armour and uber weapon because they got track they can choose opponents they can keep farming bots and low lvl that harvesting and doing quests its just lame soe keep bumping up scouts...Soe shoudl take away evac and track from them or double the costs of pvp items and lower the drop rate of gear for scouts (and stop adding the [I cannot control my vocabulary] mesmerize procs to scout chain ... the worst idea ever)</blockquote><p><b><span style="font-size: small;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;color: #0099ff;">If track and evac go, Sony will have to replace track with a CA line, and additionally, the warrior classes will have to lose Rescue, the mage classes will have to lose Magi Shielding (which does become progressively effective at higher levels, I might add), and healers need to lose their emergency heals they get at 25 or so.</span></b></p><p><b><span style="font-size: small;font-family: Comic Sans MS;color: #0099ff;">The entire design of the game grants advantages and disadvantages to each class, subclass, and archetype.  No one needs nerfed on such a large scale, but if you do bring such a huge nerf to the table, it has to fall evenly across the board.</span></b></p></blockquote>This makes no sense. Track and evac aren't even combat abilities, they are just utility tools. And you are comparing that to taunts, heals and buffs? Your own class, swashbuckler, also have a full line of CA's that allows them to be extremely effective in PvP, even without all that utility. You guys have stealth, reach, taunts, mez and DPS that would make a blender jealous. I don't want track removed either, because it makes it possible to find PvP. Hell, scouts finding me also gives me more opportunities, so I hope they leave that in. But track and uninterruptable evac <b>combined </b>is too much. Especially when you have T1 DPS too.

Dalwar
01-07-2008, 09:10 AM
Sure poor scouts. .. need more ca's becuase their dps is to low ... and autoatack that reach 2k is so small ;/ cryi will give you my emergency heals rofl 2k hp on both with 15 minutes recast time ... for your track what you think ... isnt good trade ?

BWLeeEllison
01-07-2008, 03:07 PM
<cite>Dalwar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sure poor scouts. .. need more ca's becuase their dps is to low ... and autoatack that reach 2k is so small ;/ cryi will give you my emergency heals rofl 2k hp on both with 15 minutes recast time ... for your track what you think ... isnt good trade ?</blockquote><p><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: Comic Sans MS;">There is no need to be sarcastic.  All classes other than scout classes, at level 1 get 2 spell lines or combat lines that are rankable and upgradable throughout the life of the character.  All scout classes get only 1 CA line at level 1, and track and stealth.  You may be thinking what does it matter if you only have the one combat art line?  Track and stealth are not upgradable.  They are not rankable.  They are static abilities that are just there to be used and they fit the "feel" of the scout classes, but the two of them make up for one CA line/spell line all other classes get.</span></b></p><p><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: Comic Sans MS;">I won't give up on defending any of my class' abilities, but you have apparently misread my earlier post.  I will clarify.</span></b></p><p><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: Comic Sans MS;">If they take track & stealth, scouts need a replacement CA line at level 1.If they take evac, everyone else loses their 15 minute abilities from level 25.</span></b></p><p><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: Comic Sans MS;">DPS is what it is.  Every class does a given amount of damage.  You want scouts to lose track.  You want scouts to lose evac. You want scouts to lose stealth.  You want scouts to get a dps nerf as well?  I do not see where this can possibly be good for 6 classes..</span></b></p>

Svetty
01-07-2008, 03:55 PM
<cite>Sightless wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>In EQ1 the Ranger was the ONLY class that could track. It was what they did, it was their class defining ability that went hand in hand with their bow. </p></blockquote>Sightless, you start out very poorly here.  You make a completely false statement at the beginning of your argument.  That blatant falsehood taints the perception of anything else you say. Druids had track in eq1, as well.  Their skill was capped at 120; while, rangers could get much higher.  That does not change the fact that Druids had track and your class defining because they were the only class with it argument is right out the window.

Bloodfa
01-07-2008, 04:05 PM
<p>For all of those "Scouts are EZMode and all of them have tokens to buy all the PvP gear" claims, I call bull [Removed for Content].  I know 1 who has a few of the pieces.  He also is an absolute beast when it comes to PvP because he doesn't give a ratonga's hindquarters about titles and charges in <i>all the time</i>.  Quit complaining about other classes and jump on the "Fix XXXXXXX class, it needs help" bandwagon.  It's sad that the only ones asking to get everybody brought up to the same level are the ones not asking for nerfs.  Get your own class fixed, not somebody else's broken.  Tracking is buggy enough that it <i>isn't</i> infallable.  If you're getting beat by scouts now, you'll continue to be beaten by scouts in the future, plain & simple, until you bring in more survivability <i>for your own class</i>.  I went after a Brigand one level lower than me yesterday with my Warden, and beat him hands down after a solid minute 1-on-1.  Tracking didn't help him.  And once he engaged in PvP, Evac wasn't an option.  I don't think anyone here will say a mid-40's Brig is underpowered.  Also fought an even-con Necro for over 2 minutes (and 4 green npc adds), and he used the terrain to break my line-of-sight like a pro.  A very well played Necro, and if they had a boost like they need, I'd have died instead of him.  Stop crying "Nerf!" and start screaming "Fix!".  It will improve the game a hell of a lot more than getting another class busted.</p>

Svetty
01-07-2008, 04:13 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>introduce fallibility?  well fine -- as long as the same is done to the core specialties of the other toons.  Healing -- just not going to work all the time.  Taunts -- resistable.  Mana shield -- sometimes it just aint going to be there for you. </blockquote>A healer's heals don't heal all the time.  We are interrupted on a regular basis and have to keep trying to cast.  Taunts are resistable.  I have been playing a beserker recently and her taunts do not work everytime. Manashield is not a core class ability but an aa line that some mages chose to take.  Even so, it is superbly easy to break through it.  It literally takes 2 nukes from me to break through it. Even HT is resistable.All these things you talk about have fallibilities already.  Why shouldn't track be the same?I don't think that track should be removed from the game altogether but I do believe it should be adjusted to be more like track in EQ1.  Removal of the map indicator would even out the imbalance the current track creates.

Norrsken
01-07-2008, 04:15 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>For all of those "Scouts are EZMode and all of them have tokens to buy all the PvP gear" claims, I call bull [I cannot control my vocabulary].  I know 1 who has a few of the pieces.  He also is an absolute beast when it comes to PvP because he doesn't give a ratonga's hindquarters about titles and charges in <i>all the time</i>.  Quit complaining about other classes and jump on the "Fix XXXXXXX class, it needs help" bandwagon.  It's sad that the only ones asking to get everybody brought up to the same level are the ones not asking for nerfs.  Get your own class fixed, not somebody else's broken.  Tracking is buggy enough that it <i>isn't</i> infallable.  If you're getting beat by scouts now, you'll continue to be beaten by scouts in the future, plain & simple, until you bring in more survivability <i>for your own class</i>.  I went after a Brigand one level lower than me yesterday with my Warden, and beat him hands down after a solid minute 1-on-1.  Tracking didn't help him.  And once he engaged in PvP, Evac wasn't an option.  I don't think anyone here will say a mid-40's Brig is underpowered.  Also fought an even-con Necro for over 2 minutes (and 4 green npc adds), and he used the terrain to break my line-of-sight like a pro.  A very well played Necro, and if they had a boost like they need, I'd have died instead of him.  Stop crying "Nerf!" and start screaming "Fix!".  It will improve the game a hell of a lot more than getting another class busted.</p></blockquote>was that a mid 40ies necro too? Cause in that tier, necros have no problems imho.

Sightless
01-07-2008, 04:18 PM
<cite>Svetty wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sightless wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>In EQ1 the Ranger was the ONLY class that could track. It was what they did, it was their class defining ability that went hand in hand with their bow. </p></blockquote>Sightless, you start out very poorly here.  You make a completely false statement at the beginning of your argument.  That blatant falsehood taints the perception of anything else you say. Druids had track in eq1, as well.  Their skill was capped at 120; while, rangers could get much higher.  That does not change the fact that Druids had track and your class defining because they were the only class with it argument is right out the window. </blockquote><p>How often did you ask a druid to track for you? <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Svetty
01-07-2008, 04:22 PM
<cite>Sightless wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Svetty wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sightless wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>In EQ1 the Ranger was the ONLY class that could track. It was what they did, it was their class defining ability that went hand in hand with their bow. </p></blockquote>Sightless, you start out very poorly here.  You make a completely false statement at the beginning of your argument.  That blatant falsehood taints the perception of anything else you say. Druids had track in eq1, as well.  Their skill was capped at 120; while, rangers could get much higher.  That does not change the fact that Druids had track and your class defining because they were the only class with it argument is right out the window. </blockquote><p>How often did you ask a druid to track for you? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /></p></blockquote>Never needed to since I had a druid of my own with a 120 track.  I can regale you with stories of the old days out in TT tracking those froglok hunters and foragers with my little druid so everyone could get access to Old Sebilis.  Yay, the giant glowing tomato!  Or my really dangerous jaunts into the planes with her still just barely able to have that 120 skill in track.  We used that little druid constantly for tracking. 

Sightless
01-07-2008, 04:26 PM
<cite>Svetty wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sightless wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Svetty wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sightless wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>In EQ1 the Ranger was the ONLY class that could track. It was what they did, it was their class defining ability that went hand in hand with their bow. </p></blockquote>Sightless, you start out very poorly here.  You make a completely false statement at the beginning of your argument.  That blatant falsehood taints the perception of anything else you say. Druids had track in eq1, as well.  Their skill was capped at 120; while, rangers could get much higher.  That does not change the fact that Druids had track and your class defining because they were the only class with it argument is right out the window. </blockquote><p>How often did you ask a druid to track for you? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />"></p></blockquote>Never needed to since I had a druid of my own with a 120 track.  I can regale you with stories of the old days out in TT tracking those froglok hunters and foragers with my little druid so everyone could get access to Old Sebilis.  Yay, the giant glowing tomato!  Or my really dangerous jaunts into the planes with her still just barely able to have that 120 skill in track.  We used that little druid constantly for tracking.  </blockquote><p>My wife as also a Druid, and I remember getting stuff on track she couldn't. I don't know if that changed after we left, but a druids tracking wasn't that good.</p>

Svetty
01-07-2008, 04:28 PM
<cite>Sightless wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Svetty wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sightless wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Svetty wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sightless wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>In EQ1 the Ranger was the ONLY class that could track. It was what they did, it was their class defining ability that went hand in hand with their bow. </p></blockquote>Sightless, you start out very poorly here.  You make a completely false statement at the beginning of your argument.  That blatant falsehood taints the perception of anything else you say. Druids had track in eq1, as well.  Their skill was capped at 120; while, rangers could get much higher.  That does not change the fact that Druids had track and your class defining because they were the only class with it argument is right out the window. </blockquote><p>How often did you ask a druid to track for you? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" width="15" height="15" />"></p></blockquote>Never needed to since I had a druid of my own with a 120 track.  I can regale you with stories of the old days out in TT tracking those froglok hunters and foragers with my little druid so everyone could get access to Old Sebilis.  Yay, the giant glowing tomato!  Or my really dangerous jaunts into the planes with her still just barely able to have that 120 skill in track.  We used that little druid constantly for tracking.  </blockquote><p>My wife as also a Druid, and I remember getting stuff on track she couldn't. I don't know if that changed after we left, but a druids tracking wasn't that good.</p></blockquote>I was doing all this when Kunark was the neat new expansion.  Druid track just took a bit more sneakiness to use if they were little.  You had to move around the zone more and deeper in than a ranger but you could still track. 

BWLeeEllison
01-07-2008, 06:05 PM
<cite>Sightless wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Svetty wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sightless wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Svetty wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sightless wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p><span style="font-size: medium;color: #ff0000;"><b>In EQ1 the Ranger was the ONLY class that could track. </b><span style="font-size: x-small;color: #000000;">It was what they did, it was their class defining ability that went hand in hand with their bow.</span></span><span style="color: #000000;"> </span></p></blockquote>Sightless, you start out very poorly here.  You make a completely false statement at the beginning of your argument.  That blatant falsehood taints the perception of anything else you say. Druids had track in eq1, as well.  Their skill was capped at 120; while, rangers could get much higher.  That does not change the fact that Druids had track and your class defining because they were the only class with it argument is right out the window. </blockquote><p>How often did you ask a druid to track for you? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />"></p></blockquote>Never needed to since I had a druid of my own with a 120 track.  I can regale you with stories of the old days out in TT tracking those froglok hunters and foragers with my little druid so everyone could get access to Old Sebilis.  Yay, the giant glowing tomato!  Or my really dangerous jaunts into the planes with her still just barely able to have that 120 skill in track.  We used that little druid constantly for tracking.  </blockquote><p>My wife as also a Druid, and I remember getting stuff on track she couldn't. I don't know if that changed after we left, but a druids tracking wasn't that good.</p></blockquote><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">Just a correction, in the old game 3 classes got tracking at various levels: Rangers at level 1, Druids, at level 20, and Bards at level 35 I think.</span></b>

Bloodfa
01-07-2008, 06:22 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>For all of those "Scouts are EZMode and all of them have tokens to buy all the PvP gear" claims, I call bull [I cannot control my vocabulary].  I know 1 who has a few of the pieces.  He also is an absolute beast when it comes to PvP because he doesn't give a ratonga's hindquarters about titles and charges in <i>all the time</i>.  Quit complaining about other classes and jump on the "Fix XXXXXXX class, it needs help" bandwagon.  It's sad that the only ones asking to get everybody brought up to the same level are the ones not asking for nerfs.  Get your own class fixed, not somebody else's broken.  Tracking is buggy enough that it <i>isn't</i> infallable.  If you're getting beat by scouts now, you'll continue to be beaten by scouts in the future, plain & simple, until you bring in more survivability <i>for your own class</i>.  I went after a Brigand one level lower than me yesterday with my Warden, and beat him hands down after a solid minute 1-on-1.  Tracking didn't help him.  And once he engaged in PvP, Evac wasn't an option.  I don't think anyone here will say a mid-40's Brig is underpowered.  Also fought an even-con Necro for over 2 minutes (and 4 green npc adds), and he used the terrain to break my line-of-sight like a pro.  A very well played Necro, and if they had a boost like they need, I'd have died instead of him.  Stop crying "Nerf!" and start screaming "Fix!".  It will improve the game a hell of a lot more than getting another class busted.</p></blockquote>was that a mid 40ies necro too? Cause in that tier, necros have no problems imho.</blockquote>Yep, same level.  If I'd been fighting him in open territory, I'd have been able to take him in 1/3 of that time, I think, but he played the terrain very nicely to his advantage. 

Svetty
01-07-2008, 06:26 PM
<cite>BWLeeEllison wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sightless wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Svetty wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sightless wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Svetty wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sightless wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p><span style="font-size: medium;color: #ff0000;"><b>In EQ1 the Ranger was the ONLY class that could track. </b><span style="font-size: x-small;color: #000000;">It was what they did, it was their class defining ability that went hand in hand with their bow.</span></span><span style="color: #000000;"> </span></p></blockquote>Sightless, you start out very poorly here.  You make a completely false statement at the beginning of your argument.  That blatant falsehood taints the perception of anything else you say. Druids had track in eq1, as well.  Their skill was capped at 120; while, rangers could get much higher.  That does not change the fact that Druids had track and your class defining because they were the only class with it argument is right out the window. </blockquote><p>How often did you ask a druid to track for you? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" width="15" height="15" />"></p></blockquote>Never needed to since I had a druid of my own with a 120 track.  I can regale you with stories of the old days out in TT tracking those froglok hunters and foragers with my little druid so everyone could get access to Old Sebilis.  Yay, the giant glowing tomato!  Or my really dangerous jaunts into the planes with her still just barely able to have that 120 skill in track.  We used that little druid constantly for tracking.  </blockquote><p>My wife as also a Druid, and I remember getting stuff on track she couldn't. I don't know if that changed after we left, but a druids tracking wasn't that good.</p></blockquote><b><span style="font-size: small;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;color: #0099ff;">Just a correction, in the old game 3 classes got tracking at various levels: Rangers at level 1, Druids, at level 20, and Bards at level 35 I think.</span></b></blockquote>I knew there was another class that got it but I couldn't remember which.  It all makes sense now since I never played an EQ1 bard.  I didn't want to get carpal tunnel from playing the game.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" />   At least, I didn't state that druid was the only other class that got it just that druids did and spoke from my personal experience with it.   **spelin "that" iz hard

Sightless
01-07-2008, 06:31 PM
<cite>Svetty wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>BWLeeEllison wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sightless wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Svetty wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sightless wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Svetty wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sightless wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p><span style="font-size: medium;color: #ff0000;"><b>In EQ1 the Ranger was the ONLY class that could track. </b><span style="font-size: x-small;color: #000000;">It was what they did, it was their class defining ability that went hand in hand with their bow.</span></span><span style="color: #000000;"> </span></p></blockquote>Sightless, you start out very poorly here.  You make a completely false statement at the beginning of your argument.  That blatant falsehood taints the perception of anything else you say. Druids had track in eq1, as well.  Their skill was capped at 120; while, rangers could get much higher.  That does not change the fact that Druids had track and your class defining because they were the only class with it argument is right out the window. </blockquote><p>How often did you ask a druid to track for you? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" width="15" height="15" />"></p></blockquote>Never needed to since I had a druid of my own with a 120 track.  I can regale you with stories of the old days out in TT tracking those froglok hunters and foragers with my little druid so everyone could get access to Old Sebilis.  Yay, the giant glowing tomato!  Or my really dangerous jaunts into the planes with her still just barely able to have that 120 skill in track.  We used that little druid constantly for tracking.  </blockquote><p>My wife as also a Druid, and I remember getting stuff on track she couldn't. I don't know if that changed after we left, but a druids tracking wasn't that good.</p></blockquote><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">Just a correction, in the old game 3 classes got tracking at various levels: Rangers at level 1, Druids, at level 20, and Bards at level 35 I think.</span></b></blockquote>I knew there was another class that got it but I couldn't remember which.  It all makes sense now since I never played an EQ1 bard.  I didn't want to get carpal tunnel from playing the game.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />">   At least, I didn't state that druid was the only other class that got it just that druids did and spoke from my personal experience with it.   **spelin "that" iz hard</blockquote>I did forget about the Bard. But as a Ranger everyone asked me to track for them, and often the group had a Bard or Druid in it that couldn't find what they wanted.

Svetty
01-07-2008, 06:33 PM
<cite>Sightless wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Svetty wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>BWLeeEllison wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sightless wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Svetty wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sightless wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Svetty wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sightless wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p><span style="font-size: medium;color: #ff0000;"><b>In EQ1 the Ranger was the ONLY class that could track. </b><span style="font-size: x-small;color: #000000;">It was what they did, it was their class defining ability that went hand in hand with their bow.</span></span><span style="color: #000000;"> </span></p></blockquote>Sightless, you start out very poorly here.  You make a completely false statement at the beginning of your argument.  That blatant falsehood taints the perception of anything else you say. Druids had track in eq1, as well.  Their skill was capped at 120; while, rangers could get much higher.  That does not change the fact that Druids had track and your class defining because they were the only class with it argument is right out the window. </blockquote><p>How often did you ask a druid to track for you? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" width="15" height="15" />"></p></blockquote>Never needed to since I had a druid of my own with a 120 track.  I can regale you with stories of the old days out in TT tracking those froglok hunters and foragers with my little druid so everyone could get access to Old Sebilis.  Yay, the giant glowing tomato!  Or my really dangerous jaunts into the planes with her still just barely able to have that 120 skill in track.  We used that little druid constantly for tracking.  </blockquote><p>My wife as also a Druid, and I remember getting stuff on track she couldn't. I don't know if that changed after we left, but a druids tracking wasn't that good.</p></blockquote><b><span style="font-size: small;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;color: #0099ff;">Just a correction, in the old game 3 classes got tracking at various levels: Rangers at level 1, Druids, at level 20, and Bards at level 35 I think.</span></b></blockquote>I knew there was another class that got it but I couldn't remember which.  It all makes sense now since I never played an EQ1 bard.  I didn't want to get carpal tunnel from playing the game.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" width="15" height="15" />">   At least, I didn't state that druid was the only other class that got it just that druids did and spoke from my personal experience with it.   **spelin "that" iz hard</blockquote>I did forget about the Bard. But as a Ranger everyone asked me to track for them, and often the group had a Bard or Druid in it that couldn't find what they wanted.</blockquote>Bah, then that druid wasn't trying hard enough!  hehehe **ugh, end of the work day = inability to spell correctly.I need a nap!

Shadow_Viper
01-07-2008, 07:16 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shadow_Viper wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shadow_Viper wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>If track is changed so it can't be used to track an enemy player. Then other simular changes will also need to be made. A healer's heals will need to be changed so they can't be used to heal the damage done by an enemy player. A tank's taunts will need to be changed so they can't be used on an enemy player, and finally a mage's nukes will need to be changed so they can't be cast on an enemy player. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote>Why do people keep using this excuse? That's a whole different ballgame. Heals, damage, and taunts are abilities used in PvP combat. Tracking is a TOOL used to find targets. It is not a combat skill. You can not call for removal of other classes combat skills because they call for removal of your tool that is used to make getting tokens easier. Now, if someone said "Take away all scouts damage abilities" or "Remove ranged attacks from Rangers" or "Remove all stifles/stuns from Swashy/Brigs" or "Remove stealth attacks from Assassins" THEN you could call for removal of heals, taunts, and nukes.Take away tracking from a scout and they still have many abilities that make them deadly in PvP, moreso than any other classes. Scouts still have massive damage, taunts and/or deaggros, poisons that do tons of different things (FrOm mana drain, to slow, to heals, stealth), evac to run if they know they won't have a chance, and chain armor.I'm not even one that wants nerfs. I'm tired of the nerfs. I have a brigand alt of my own. However, I'm more tired of people using this very <u><b><span style="font-size: small;">very</span></b></u><b><span style="font-size: small;"> </span></b>lame example so had to get this off my chest. And the best solution is a PvP merchant sold tracking totem that has a long recast and high status cost. Solved. </blockquote><p>A healer's heals, a tank's taunts and a mage's nukes are TOOLs that those classes can use, just like a scout's track is a tool(also see abilitiy). A class defining "tools".</p><p>If you change one archtype's "tool", you'll need to make simular changes to the other archtypes' "tools". It is that simple. </p></blockquote><p>Now the interresting thing here is; Healers heal. But so do pallies and dirges. and necros. And sks. </p><p><span style="color: #009900;"><b>Not as well as an actual healer.</b></span>Tanks taunts. (Or rather tanks) and so do necros, conjies, swashbucklers and brigands. and even inquisitors. And coercers. <span style="color: #009900;"><b>Not as well as an actual tank</b></span>Mages nukes. Uhm. I dont think I even have to go into this one. <span style="color: #009900;"><b>Mages nuke, yes, generalization yes, but you get the point. </b></span></p><p>Scouts track? Hmm. How many other classes can track other than scouts? None. I smell an imbalance here. </p><b><span style="color: #009900;">No imbalance at all.</span></b> <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>Replies in green.

Shadow_Viper
01-07-2008, 07:19 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shadow_Viper wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>A healer's heals, a tank's taunts and a mage's nukes are TOOLs that those classes can use, just like a scout's track is a tool(also see abilitiy). A class defining "tools".</p><p>If you change one archtype's "tool", you'll need to make simular changes to the other archtypes' "tools". It is that simple. </p></blockquote>I said they were combat abilities, tracking is NOT a combat ability. It's an ability that is a tool to find PvP. It does not effect combat once engaged. All the others you said ARE used in combat. That argument makes absolutely no sense at all and is quite possibly the silliest thing I've ever read in the forums.</blockquote><p>Seems simple enough to me. You can call them whatever you'd like. But in the end, if you make a change to one archtype's class defining ability, a simular change will need to be made to the other archtypes' class defining abilities. </p><p>Healers heals, Tanks taunts and mages nukes, for example.</p>

Shadow_Viper
01-07-2008, 07:25 PM
<cite>BWLeeEllison wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dalwar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hey.One question... there is pvp item that gives +5 to track avoidance any idea if it works ? or just another junk droped by soe ?Scouts - brig swashy... easy mode pvp ... the worst thing is that even noob can get loads of tokens so uber armour and uber weapon because they got track they can choose opponents they can keep farming bots and low lvl that harvesting and doing quests its just lame soe keep bumping up scouts...Soe shoudl take away evac and track from them or double the costs of pvp items and lower the drop rate of gear for scouts (and stop adding the [I cannot control my vocabulary] mesmerize procs to scout chain ... the worst idea ever)</blockquote><p><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">If track and evac go, Sony will have to replace track with a CA line, and additionally, the warrior classes will have to lose Rescue, the mage classes will have to lose Magi Shielding (which does become progressively effective at higher levels, I might add), and healers need to lose their emergency heals they get at 25 or so.</span></b></p><p><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: Comic Sans MS;">The entire design of the game grants advantages and disadvantages to each class, subclass, and archetype.  No one needs nerfed on such a large scale, but if you do bring such a huge nerf to the table, it has to fall evenly across the board.</span></b></p></blockquote>Couldn't have said it better myself, wise words. Thank you.

Shadow_Viper
01-07-2008, 07:34 PM
<p>From <b><u>Welcome to the Jungle: EQ2 PVP</u></b> </p><p><b>Law of the Jungle #3: Nobody needs to be nerfed</b>All classes have advantages in certain situations. If you find yourself in one of these situations and you aren't the class in question, see Law #1. So, such-and-such a class can take you down solo if they get the jump on you, if all they do is X and Y? Well, yes. That's what they do, and you were there. The essence of EQ2 is that all classes have advantages and weaknesses, and the way we overcome our weaknesses isn't telling the game developer to take them away, or give you someone else's advantage. The way you overcome these weaknesses is by <b>grouping</b> with someone who can complement them. You're not here to run around solo and have a fair, balanced even 1v1 match against everyone you meet. That's not PvP, that's <b>dueling</b>. Running around alone isn't something you have the right to do. Not all classes were meant to solo in PvE as well as others, what makes you think this is any different? And if your class can't do what so-and-so does, they shouldn't. Everyone has "certain classes" who flat-out have them beat. Everyone has classes that can't hold a candle to them. This is not, nor should it be, a game where you always stand a fair chance. There's more to PvP that who has what nuke or how many hitpoints or what dps rate is. PvP is about knowing <b>everything</b> you can do and how it works, not just what numbers scrolled up when you fought mobs before. If you can't fight them, learn how to. If you can't learn and expect SOE to change everything around to suit you, you made a mistake. Crying that you can't beat X class and they need to be nerfed doesn't mean you're right, it means you're an unskilled player who doesn't understand how to play his class. You also have to understand the other classes and what their weaknesses are. Learn, Adapt, and Grow; if you can't do that then you're not cut out for this.</p><p>Very wise words, I suggest that everyone pays close attention to this and reads carefully through it. Thank you. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

Svetty
01-07-2008, 07:35 PM
<cite>Shadow_Viper wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>BWLeeEllison wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dalwar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hey.One question... there is pvp item that gives +5 to track avoidance any idea if it works ? or just another junk droped by soe ?Scouts - brig swashy... easy mode pvp ... the worst thing is that even noob can get loads of tokens so uber armour and uber weapon because they got track they can choose opponents they can keep farming bots and low lvl that harvesting and doing quests its just lame soe keep bumping up scouts...Soe shoudl take away evac and track from them or double the costs of pvp items and lower the drop rate of gear for scouts (and stop adding the [I cannot control my vocabulary] mesmerize procs to scout chain ... the worst idea ever)</blockquote><p><b><span style="font-size: small;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;color: #0099ff;">If track and evac go, Sony will have to replace track with a CA line, and additionally, the warrior classes will have to lose Rescue, the mage classes will have to lose Magi Shielding (which does become progressively effective at higher levels, I might add), and healers need to lose their emergency heals they get at 25 or so.</span></b></p><p><b><span style="font-size: small;font-family: Comic Sans MS;color: #0099ff;">The entire design of the game grants advantages and disadvantages to each class, subclass, and archetype.  No one needs nerfed on such a large scale, but if you do bring such a huge nerf to the table, it has to fall evenly across the board.</span></b></p></blockquote>Couldn't have said it better myself, wise words. Thank you.</blockquote>Everyone keeps talking about if they remove track from the game all together but I fall into a different boat.  What would be so wrong if they retooled track to work more like track in EQ1?  You get your list of names in the tracking radius and you select one.  In your chat window you are then given directions to said person.  Things like "they are southeast and below you" or "they are straight ahead of you" instead of getting a glowing trail and a mark on the mark for you to follow.  This would then cause track to need a little more skill to use and it would cause less cries of scouts having "easy mode".  You would actually have to pay a little more attention to your compass and to direction you are being given.  Is that really so detrimental to your play style? 

Tae
01-07-2008, 08:01 PM
The problem with removing the X from the map is this - the tracking arrow thing is utterly useless and never goes in the right direction. Track will still be an early warning radar system, but it won't really help you in actually finding people.

Svetty
01-07-2008, 08:12 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>The problem with removing the X from the map is this - the tracking arrow thing is utterly useless and never goes in the right direction. Track will still be an early warning radar system, but it won't really help you in actually finding people. </blockquote>Funny, the tracking system in EQ1 worked great.  I never had a problem finding what I was tracking based on the directions it was giving me.  **edited to addThe directional messages tell you exactly where you need to go.  I am suggesting a revamp of the EQ2 track system to what the EQ1 system was.  I only say was because I have not played EQ1 in several years so I do not know if they have made any changes to it.  When I refer to the EQ1 tracking system I am referring to what it was like up until Planes of Power came out. 

toenukl
01-07-2008, 10:50 PM
<cite>BWLeeEllison wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dalwar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hey.One question... there is pvp item that gives +5 to track avoidance any idea if it works ? or just another junk droped by soe ?Scouts - brig swashy... easy mode pvp ... the worst thing is that even noob can get loads of tokens so uber armour and uber weapon because they got track they can choose opponents they can keep farming bots and low lvl that harvesting and doing quests its just lame soe keep bumping up scouts...Soe shoudl take away evac and track from them or double the costs of pvp items and lower the drop rate of gear for scouts (and stop adding the [I cannot control my vocabulary] mesmerize procs to scout chain ... the worst idea ever)</blockquote><p><b><span style="font-size: small;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;color: #0099ff;">If track and evac go, Sony will have to replace track with a CA line, and additionally, the warrior classes will have to lose Rescue, the mage classes will have to lose Magi Shielding (which does become progressively effective at higher levels, I might add), and healers need to lose their emergency heals they get at 25 or so.</span></b></p><p><b><span style="font-size: small;font-family: Comic Sans MS;color: #0099ff;">The entire design of the game grants advantages and disadvantages to each class, subclass, and archetype.  No one needs nerfed on such a large scale, but if you do bring such a huge nerf to the table, it has to fall evenly across the board.</span></b></p></blockquote>Again, tracking is a noncombat ability. Every other classes noncombat abilities are given to EVERYONE through either a totem or tinkered item. Track should be no different. I am 100% against totally removing it, however.

keLston
01-07-2008, 11:29 PM
<cite>Svetty wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>The problem with removing the X from the map is this - the tracking arrow thing is utterly useless and never goes in the right direction. Track will still be an early warning radar system, but it won't really help you in actually finding people. </blockquote>Funny, the tracking system in EQ1 worked great.  I never had a problem finding what I was tracking based on the directions it was giving me.  **edited to addThe directional messages tell you exactly where you need to go.  I am suggesting a revamp of the EQ2 track system to what the EQ1 system was.  I only say was because I have not played EQ1 in several years so I do not know if they have made any changes to it.  When I refer to the EQ1 tracking system I am referring to what it was like up until Planes of Power came out.  </blockquote>Funny, EQ2 isn't using EQ1's code. Whether the tracking directions worked well in EQ1 or not has no bearing on how useless they are in EQ2.Ever actually try tracking in EQ2? The glowy line thing is useless 75% of the time for me too because for some reason, if I don't follow it exactly using it's inherent invisible waypoint system, I suddenly have the glowy line pointing behind me to one of those invisible waypoints it uses to guide me to my target and won't update unless I go back and run over it or stop completely and spin around a few times to force it to update.Please don't comment on how a mechanic works or how well it works when you don't even have it to see it.

Svetty
01-07-2008, 11:47 PM
<cite>keLston wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Svetty wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>The problem with removing the X from the map is this - the tracking arrow thing is utterly useless and never goes in the right direction. Track will still be an early warning radar system, but it won't really help you in actually finding people. </blockquote>Funny, the tracking system in EQ1 worked great.  I never had a problem finding what I was tracking based on the directions it was giving me.  **edited to addThe directional messages tell you exactly where you need to go.  I am suggesting a revamp of the EQ2 track system to what the EQ1 system was.  I only say was because I have not played EQ1 in several years so I do not know if they have made any changes to it.  When I refer to the EQ1 tracking system I am referring to what it was like up until Planes of Power came out.  </blockquote>Funny, EQ2 isn't using EQ1's code. Whether the tracking directions worked well in EQ1 or not has no bearing on how useless they are in EQ2.Ever actually try tracking in EQ2? The glowy line thing is useless 75% of the time for me too because for some reason, if I don't follow it exactly using it's inherent invisible waypoint system, I suddenly have the glowy line pointing behind me to one of those invisible waypoints it uses to guide me to my target and won't update unless I go back and run over it or stop completely and spin around a few times to force it to update.Please don't comment on how a mechanic works or how well it works when you don't even have it to see it.</blockquote>I wasn't commenting on how it works in EQ2.  Having a glowing path whether it works well or not is ridiculous.  I was commenting on how it worked in EQ1 and stating that I think a fair compromise to make everyone happy would be to retool the system to work like track does in EQ1, ie take it completely away from the current system it uses and replace it with one like in that game because that one works well.

keLston
01-07-2008, 11:55 PM
<cite>Svetty wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>keLston wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Svetty wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>The problem with removing the X from the map is this - the tracking arrow thing is utterly useless and never goes in the right direction. Track will still be an early warning radar system, but it won't really help you in actually finding people. </blockquote>Funny, the tracking system in EQ1 worked great.  I never had a problem finding what I was tracking based on the directions it was giving me.  **edited to addThe directional messages tell you exactly where you need to go.  I am suggesting a revamp of the EQ2 track system to what the EQ1 system was.  I only say was because I have not played EQ1 in several years so I do not know if they have made any changes to it.  When I refer to the EQ1 tracking system I am referring to what it was like up until Planes of Power came out.  </blockquote>Funny, EQ2 isn't using EQ1's code. Whether the tracking directions worked well in EQ1 or not has no bearing on how useless they are in EQ2.Ever actually try tracking in EQ2? The glowy line thing is useless 75% of the time for me too because for some reason, if I don't follow it exactly using it's inherent invisible waypoint system, I suddenly have the glowy line pointing behind me to one of those invisible waypoints it uses to guide me to my target and won't update unless I go back and run over it or stop completely and spin around a few times to force it to update.Please don't comment on how a mechanic works or how well it works when you don't even have it to see it.</blockquote>I wasn't commenting on how it works in EQ2.  Having a glowing path whether it works well or not is ridiculous.  I was commenting on how it worked in EQ1 and stating that I think a fair compromise to make everyone happy would be to retool the system to work like track does in EQ1, ie take it completely away from the current system it uses and replace it with one like in that game because that one works well. </blockquote>Again no bearing because pathing works completely differently in EQ1 vs EQ2. It isn't a matter of lol let's just copypasta the code over.But clearly, having something that works poorly is ridiculously overpowered! Nerf!

Svetty
01-08-2008, 12:13 AM
<cite>keLston wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Svetty wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>keLston wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Svetty wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>The problem with removing the X from the map is this - the tracking arrow thing is utterly useless and never goes in the right direction. Track will still be an early warning radar system, but it won't really help you in actually finding people. </blockquote>Funny, the tracking system in EQ1 worked great.  I never had a problem finding what I was tracking based on the directions it was giving me.  **edited to addThe directional messages tell you exactly where you need to go.  I am suggesting a revamp of the EQ2 track system to what the EQ1 system was.  I only say was because I have not played EQ1 in several years so I do not know if they have made any changes to it.  When I refer to the EQ1 tracking system I am referring to what it was like up until Planes of Power came out.  </blockquote>Funny, EQ2 isn't using EQ1's code. Whether the tracking directions worked well in EQ1 or not has no bearing on how useless they are in EQ2.Ever actually try tracking in EQ2? The glowy line thing is useless 75% of the time for me too because for some reason, if I don't follow it exactly using it's inherent invisible waypoint system, I suddenly have the glowy line pointing behind me to one of those invisible waypoints it uses to guide me to my target and won't update unless I go back and run over it or stop completely and spin around a few times to force it to update.Please don't comment on how a mechanic works or how well it works when you don't even have it to see it.</blockquote>I wasn't commenting on how it works in EQ2.  Having a glowing path whether it works well or not is ridiculous.  I was commenting on how it worked in EQ1 and stating that I think a fair compromise to make everyone happy would be to retool the system to work like track does in EQ1, ie take it completely away from the current system it uses and replace it with one like in that game because that one works well. </blockquote>Again no bearing because pathing works completely differently in EQ1 vs EQ2. It isn't a matter of lol let's just copypasta the code over.But clearly, having something that works poorly is ridiculously overpowered! Nerf!</blockquote>Having directional messages that come up in your chat window with track is already available to be used in EQ2.  You get the messages when you choose a waypoint on your map or get a waypoint from a guard to find someone.  Those things are essentially the same as track.  Retooling that so the directional messages are more refined and removing the glowing path and mark on the map will balance track out and you will get less people complaining about scouts having "easy mode" without removing the ability completely from the game. If people cannot present a good compromise to the developers they will more than likely end up removing it from the game because that is the pattern they have set.  It tends to be the loudest cries are the ones catered to.  So, before you start slamming my compromise think about that and think about what you other options are. 

Tatate
01-08-2008, 12:16 AM
QQ

keLston
01-08-2008, 12:23 AM
<cite>Svetty wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>keLston wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Svetty wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>keLston wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Svetty wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>The problem with removing the X from the map is this - the tracking arrow thing is utterly useless and never goes in the right direction. Track will still be an early warning radar system, but it won't really help you in actually finding people. </blockquote>Funny, the tracking system in EQ1 worked great.  I never had a problem finding what I was tracking based on the directions it was giving me.  **edited to addThe directional messages tell you exactly where you need to go.  I am suggesting a revamp of the EQ2 track system to what the EQ1 system was.  I only say was because I have not played EQ1 in several years so I do not know if they have made any changes to it.  When I refer to the EQ1 tracking system I am referring to what it was like up until Planes of Power came out.  </blockquote>Funny, EQ2 isn't using EQ1's code. Whether the tracking directions worked well in EQ1 or not has no bearing on how useless they are in EQ2.Ever actually try tracking in EQ2? The glowy line thing is useless 75% of the time for me too because for some reason, if I don't follow it exactly using it's inherent invisible waypoint system, I suddenly have the glowy line pointing behind me to one of those invisible waypoints it uses to guide me to my target and won't update unless I go back and run over it or stop completely and spin around a few times to force it to update.Please don't comment on how a mechanic works or how well it works when you don't even have it to see it.</blockquote>I wasn't commenting on how it works in EQ2.  Having a glowing path whether it works well or not is ridiculous.  I was commenting on how it worked in EQ1 and stating that I think a fair compromise to make everyone happy would be to retool the system to work like track does in EQ1, ie take it completely away from the current system it uses and replace it with one like in that game because that one works well. </blockquote>Again no bearing because pathing works completely differently in EQ1 vs EQ2. It isn't a matter of lol let's just copypasta the code over.But clearly, having something that works poorly is ridiculously overpowered! Nerf!</blockquote>Having directional messages that come up in your chat window with track is already available to be used in EQ2.  You get the messages when you choose a waypoint on your map or get a waypoint from a guard to find someone.  Those things are essentially the same as track.  Retooling that so the directional messages are more refined and removing the glowing path and mark on the map will balance track out and you will get less people complaining about scouts having "easy mode" without removing the ability completely from the game. If people cannot present a good compromise to the developers they will more than likely end up removing it from the game because that is the pattern they have set.  It tends to be the loudest cries are the ones catered to.  So, before you start slamming my compromise think about that and think about what you other options are.  </blockquote>Yes, it's already in game. Except it doesn't function with the same mechanics as it does in EQ1. Notice Tae's comment on it.It doesn't work. Therefore, it's a poor compromise. Probably even worse than removing it altogether because someone who hasn't had experience with the text version of tracking to know it was terrible will end up being misled by it.And it's a poor compromise because of the following quote:"My screwdriver can no longer drive screws. I do not care how well it can now be used to hammer nails."

Svetty
01-08-2008, 12:27 AM
<cite>keLston wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Svetty wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>keLston wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Svetty wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>keLston wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Svetty wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>The problem with removing the X from the map is this - the tracking arrow thing is utterly useless and never goes in the right direction. Track will still be an early warning radar system, but it won't really help you in actually finding people. </blockquote>Funny, the tracking system in EQ1 worked great.  I never had a problem finding what I was tracking based on the directions it was giving me.  **edited to addThe directional messages tell you exactly where you need to go.  I am suggesting a revamp of the EQ2 track system to what the EQ1 system was.  I only say was because I have not played EQ1 in several years so I do not know if they have made any changes to it.  When I refer to the EQ1 tracking system I am referring to what it was like up until Planes of Power came out.  </blockquote>Funny, EQ2 isn't using EQ1's code. Whether the tracking directions worked well in EQ1 or not has no bearing on how useless they are in EQ2.Ever actually try tracking in EQ2? The glowy line thing is useless 75% of the time for me too because for some reason, if I don't follow it exactly using it's inherent invisible waypoint system, I suddenly have the glowy line pointing behind me to one of those invisible waypoints it uses to guide me to my target and won't update unless I go back and run over it or stop completely and spin around a few times to force it to update.Please don't comment on how a mechanic works or how well it works when you don't even have it to see it.</blockquote>I wasn't commenting on how it works in EQ2.  Having a glowing path whether it works well or not is ridiculous.  I was commenting on how it worked in EQ1 and stating that I think a fair compromise to make everyone happy would be to retool the system to work like track does in EQ1, ie take it completely away from the current system it uses and replace it with one like in that game because that one works well. </blockquote>Again no bearing because pathing works completely differently in EQ1 vs EQ2. It isn't a matter of lol let's just copypasta the code over.But clearly, having something that works poorly is ridiculously overpowered! Nerf!</blockquote>Having directional messages that come up in your chat window with track is already available to be used in EQ2.  You get the messages when you choose a waypoint on your map or get a waypoint from a guard to find someone.  Those things are essentially the same as track.  Retooling that so the directional messages are more refined and removing the glowing path and mark on the map will balance track out and you will get less people complaining about scouts having "easy mode" without removing the ability completely from the game. If people cannot present a good compromise to the developers they will more than likely end up removing it from the game because that is the pattern they have set.  It tends to be the loudest cries are the ones catered to.  So, before you start slamming my compromise think about that and think about what you other options are.  </blockquote>Yes, it's already in game. Except it doesn't function with the same mechanics as it does in EQ1. Notice Tae's comment on it.It doesn't work. Therefore, it's a poor compromise. Probably even worse than removing it altogether because someone who hasn't had experience with the text version of tracking to know it was terrible will end up being misled by it.And it's a poor compromise because of the following quote:"My screwdriver can no longer drive screws. I do not care how well it can now be used to hammer nails."</blockquote>Again, I am not saying just use the current system how it is but refine it so it works better, more like in EQ1.  That would not be a poor compromise.  If they refined the code and it worked properly how would it be worse than them removing track all together?

BWLeeEllison
01-08-2008, 03:40 AM
<cite>Svetty wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>The problem with removing the X from the map is this - the tracking arrow thing is utterly useless and never goes in the right direction.Track will still be an early warning radar system, but it won't really help you in actually finding people.</blockquote>Funny, the tracking system in EQ1 worked great.  I never had a problem finding what I was tracking based on the directions it was giving me.  **edited to addThe directional messages tell you exactly where you need to go.  I am suggesting a revamp of the EQ2 track system to what the EQ1 system was.  I only say was because I have not played EQ1 in several years so I do not know if they have made any changes to it.  When I refer to the EQ1 tracking system I am referring to what it was like up until Planes of Power came out.  </blockquote><p><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: Comic Sans MS;">You just want to remove all the visual aids then?  Like the dot on the map and the glowie trail?  To make us have to read a chat window instead of looking at the world, and therefor pay less attention to our surroundings?  Making us more susceptible to being snuck up on and so forth?  What a great idea...A step backward is always a step in the right direction heheh</span></b></p><p><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: Comic Sans MS;">I just had another cool idea to go with that one.  How about we remove hit point bars from the game so that healers have to read a tiny chat window to see who in their group needs healed.  Next, we can remove targetting windows and targetting rings and make it so warrior types have to read a tiny chat window that tells them who they have targetted.</span></b></p><p><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: Comic Sans MS;">I hate visual aids anyway.  I like my game to be as difficult as possible.</span></b></p><p><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: Comic Sans MS;">On a more serious note, the track system in EQ1 was upgraded to a glowie trail prior to the point at which I quit playing it.  So, . . fish fish, you got your wish.  We have EQ 1 tracking already heheh <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></span></b></p>

BWLeeEllison
01-08-2008, 03:49 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>BWLeeEllison wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dalwar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hey.One question... there is pvp item that gives +5 to track avoidance any idea if it works ? or just another junk droped by soe ?Scouts - brig swashy... easy mode pvp ... the worst thing is that even noob can get loads of tokens so uber armour and uber weapon because they got track they can choose opponents they can keep farming bots and low lvl that harvesting and doing quests its just lame soe keep bumping up scouts...Soe shoudl take away evac and track from them or double the costs of pvp items and lower the drop rate of gear for scouts (and stop adding the [I cannot control my vocabulary] mesmerize procs to scout chain ... the worst idea ever)</blockquote><p><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">If track and evac go, Sony will have to replace track with a CA line, and additionally, the warrior classes will have to lose Rescue, the mage classes will have to lose Magi Shielding (which does become progressively effective at higher levels, I might add), and healers need to lose their emergency heals they get at 25 or so.</span></b></p><p><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: Comic Sans MS;">The entire design of the game grants advantages and disadvantages to each class, subclass, and archetype.  No one needs nerfed on such a large scale, but if you do bring such a huge nerf to the table, it has to fall evenly across the board.</span></b></p></blockquote>Again, tracking is a noncombat ability. Every other classes noncombat abilities are given to EVERYONE through either a totem or tinkered item. Track should be no different. I am 100% against totally removing it, however.</blockquote><p><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">It is not an issue of non combat abilities, it is a matter of scouts receiving 2 non coms at the very beginning that are supposed to (and do) last through out the character's career.  At level 1, every other class in the game gets 2 rankable, upgradeable CAs or spells.  Should Sony do what so many are clamoring for and pull EITHER or BOTH of these two non coms, then a replacement is necessary.  Flame me about the possibility of a DPS boost if any of you want, but it's the truth.  Scout abilities have been through the nerf grinder, and all I can say is people should rather be pulling for increased survivability for their favorite toons.  The path of least resistance is the one where you are not trying to hurt or hamper someone else thuse forcing them to into a state of conflict with your wishes.   If people asked for, or provided ideas for, improved levels of survivability for say mages and warriors, most especially mages, then quite possibly you guys would find a pack load of extra people pulling to get you the help you need instead of being forced to fight with you.</span></b></p><p><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: Comic Sans MS;">Good luck. The choice is yours.</span></b></p>

Alycs
01-08-2008, 03:57 AM
I sometimes wonder about the fallibility of track.  I sometimes do.  Dejenchri was in Everfrost a while back questing.  She is a wizard.  I think she was 53.  She and an Assassin, who was oh, about 60/61 came face to face around a couple of corners.  The assassin hesitated briefly, as if Dejen hadn't been seen.  The root took, the nuking commenced.  Needless to say, Dejenchri has a token she can't even USE yet.  This assassin was orange to her, should have seen Dejen coming, even IF Dejen was invisible(which she was) BUT ... instead ... acted surprised.You'd have to ask the assassin in question whether or not she was.  If you pm me, I'll tell you her name.  But not on open channels.As for Chai, she's been surprised before.  Even in stealth and with totem.  Poof...3 people not on her track and her come face to face.  They're nicely red, Chai evacs.  Chai's insane, not stupid.There are far more things wrong with other classes than tracking being overpowered.  And I'll reiterate, my main character is a Wizard.  My secondary PvP character currently is a mystic.  My tertiary char is on a PvE server and a fury.  Thus, I don't play Chai very often....so, for me...eh, track gets nerfed, track gets nerfed, it would free up more of my limited window space.

Saintedone
01-13-2008, 06:08 AM
<p> We have all scene thread after thread. "GET OUT THE NERF BAT - Track is @@@@@@</p><p> The truth is the game was developed for PVE and not PVP. I know I was there in beta and was told as everyone else at the time was there would never be PVP in EQ2. </p><p> The simple shier numbers of scouts on the PVP servers tells us quite a bit about how the real pvp game is and also why our populations arnt thriving. We need more classes out there, more divercity - if you like playing a scout great more power to you, the same thing should be said for all the classes EQ2 has to offer. The simple fact that Track is an easy mode for players in pvp makes the game lean in that dirrection. I like the mage classes, someone else likes fighter classes and still others like priest classes and also want pvp but the band's of roaming scouts out there tend to push everyone around and lets face it at the lower end of the game scouts can put a bad taste in a new players mouth, the next day they still love the game they still want to pvp and TADA!!! a new scout is on the server, or worse they go PVE to enjoy the game in the class they preffer to play. Dont get me wrong there are all types of low level mages,fighters,priest out there grieffing away the new players as well.</p><p> Scout use track as an offencive as well as a deffencive method of plying in pvp. I think its great, I have a lot of scout buddies and have been killed by the best Vox has to offer. That being said lets talk about lore and fantacy games and see if we can find a sollution.</p><p> Mages have always used Crystals a.k.a crystal ball or runes and such to track. Example LOTR's</p><p> Druids and priest have always used bones or twigs to see beyond.</p><p> Fighters have been able to use shields and swords that would pin point there enimies. Thundercats sword comes to mind.</p><p> Yes, I am suggesting items to track with that all classes can use, and at low levels maby tiered like adornments or what have you but it would have to be equipt on something or totems that take up a slot of your playing inventory, there are many ways this could be implimented into the game and on DAY 1 LIVE EQ2 would be better for it, IMO.</p><p>In closing I would like to say Im ready for the hate but Im also ready for the discusion, I have been thinking about this for a couple weeks and I have accually have come from the perspective of take all player character track out of game to this so I am also thinking about my scout friends out there who love there track...</p><p>Thanx Saintz Vox</p>