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View Full Version : Time to set some rules on Titles.


Gimet
12-29-2007, 05:11 PM
<p>EQ2 is a PvE game with a PvP feature. PvP will never be balanced, and some class will always be on top. Therefore...</p><p>Scouts- With the exception of Bards and in part Assassins, take 2 titles away. Therefore your Destroyer title is actaully a Hunter title. Maybe late Slayer. Your track gives you avoidance and the ability to stalk people. Your evac allows you to choose when to fight. And your run-speed gives you the chance to flee before or after they hit you. Bards, your titles are really a representative of your skill. I got Slayer on my Swashbuckler with my Apprentice 4 spells. I don't know many other classes that can do that. Scouts are the kings of PvP at the moment. You have no right to say "I pwned you" or "You suck" or call people scared when they deny your 1v1. You also don't have the right to say L2P.</p><p>Priests- Druids, come on now. You're almost the same boat as Scouts. You cannot say L2P, you cannot insult people for saying no to your 1v1's. Take 1 Title away. Wardens, I'm even tempted to tell you to take 2 titles away, but your DPS isn't as instant as a Furies or a Scouts. Only issue with you guys is you never run out of power and your heals are rediculous especially when you have AA to make them Critical. Clerics, you do play rough classes to master in PvP. Your heals take long to cast and you become victims to burst DPS...I think you are deserving of your title. Shamans, you guys rock at PvP if played well...but when not played well, you really find yourself in trouble. Defilers, you get way strong in some teirs....but I still have to give you the benefit of the doubt.</p><p>Mages- Sorcerers, go play a REAL mage class. Are you getting hit too hard? Pop a mana-shield. What do other mages do? Die. You need to kill someone fast enough? Fine, randomly click 2 or 3 of your spells. What do other mages do? We have to use all of our spells to whin sometimes. Take away....2 titles. You are not supposed to be able to nuke with spells as scouts do with their CA's. Sure, you have to cast...but what can Priests (Minus Druids) and other Mages to do? Fighters can't even stand up to your DPS. Enchanters, all about your skill. Plain and simple. Your title is well earned. A true indication of skill. Summoners, and I'm not just saying this because I am one, go ahead and add 1 title for effort and patience of playing this class. Even when played well you find yourself struggling to win many times. Your defense does not work correctly in PvP, you can hardly stand to a well played Mage, and you get dropped faster than any other class I've seen.</p><p>Fighters- Minus Brawlers who have scout-like DPS, your Title is well earned or in some cases in need of a +1. Brawlers, and you know it's true, you almost are impossible to hit, you have amazing DPS for a fighter, and you can almost easily beat Druids...I've seen it happen. I like the Brawler classes...but take 1/2 to 1 title away because of your sick DPS. Then again I may be wrong....I've only played a Monk in the Fighter category, I've never tried the other ones.</p><p>That's just how I see it. Not everyone has the same rights as other classes simply because there is no balance. So the community will do it for you and let you know when you have a Bogus title.</p>

Kasino
12-29-2007, 10:08 PM
I like the part where you complained.

Spyderbite
12-29-2007, 11:41 PM
You forgot to mention which tier you are referring to. Cause all of the examples that you cited are either truth or complete fiction depending on which tier the class in question is fighting at.

seahawk
12-29-2007, 11:56 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>You forgot to mention which tier you are referring to. Cause all of the examples that you cited are either truth or complete fiction depending on which tier the class in question is fighting at.</blockquote><p>spot on.  the OP has some kind of grudge.  I love the fact that a sorcerer can just press 2 or 3 buttons and kill someone.  I lol'd in RL when I read that.  Everyone thinks manashield is some kind of godsend or something.  Anyone that dies, because manashield saved the sorcerer is a noob.  Period.  I have fought many a 1 v 1 and still lost with manashield.  All i can do is tip my hat to them, cause those peeps had some serious DPS.  The classes with average or below average dps, if you sit there with mana popped, then you deserve to die.</p><p> Anyway, I guess it's the OP opinion on titles, and fair enough.. I just find his/her remarks on sorcerers a bit laughable.  </p><p>happy new year all!</p>

TheFitz
12-30-2007, 12:02 AM
<p>First off a disclaimer-- I do not play on a PvP server.</p><p>That having been said with the recent monumental change to PvP I don't think SOE should be using their resources to implement another change and risk alienating even more players.</p><p>I feel their time would be much better spent tweeking the changes they just made because from what I've read the whole thing just seemed rushed.</p><p>Like I said I dont play on a PvP server so my opinion is of little importance. Happy Q hunting!!</p>

Spyderbite
12-30-2007, 12:13 AM
<cite>TheFitz wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>That having been said with the recent monumental change to PvP I don't think SOE should be using their resources to implement another change and risk alienating even more players.</p></blockquote>A handful of people who quit and took all 11 of their alts with them is hardly a case of "alienation". *chuckles* Especially when they're being replaced by people in droves. Chasing off the griefers was just the beginning. Titles are on the plate next I hope. They need a huge revamp or to be removed all together.

Psych
12-30-2007, 12:35 AM
<cite>seahawk91 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>You forgot to mention which tier you are referring to. Cause all of the examples that you cited are either truth or complete fiction depending on which tier the class in question is fighting at.</blockquote><p>spot on.  the OP has some kind of grudge.  I love the fact that a sorcerer can just press 2 or 3 buttons and kill someone.  I lol'd in RL when I read that.  Everyone thinks manashield is some kind of godsend or something.  Anyone that dies, because manashield saved the sorcerer is a noob.  Period.  I have fought many a 1 v 1 and still lost with manashield.  All i can do is tip my hat to them, cause those peeps had some serious DPS.  The classes with average or below average dps, if you sit there with mana popped, then you deserve to die.</p><p> Anyway, I guess it's the OP opinion on titles, and fair enough.. I just find his/her remarks on sorcerers a bit laughable.  </p><p>happy new year all!</p></blockquote>whoa whoa whoa. Obviously its different at higher tiers but let me just say that the players who died because of manashield arent noobs.If you cant tear it off and you arent a dps god then odds are that wizzy/lock is winning.At higher levels there are a lot more ways to deal with it. But between 20-40 it can be a nightmare. I dare you to roll a paladin and beat a sorc using manashield before level 50. I doubt it has ever happend aside from freak green con mistakes where the sorcerer refused to do anything throughout the duration.

seahawk
12-30-2007, 02:41 AM
<cite>Psych wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>seahawk91 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>You forgot to mention which tier you are referring to. Cause all of the examples that you cited are either truth or complete fiction depending on which tier the class in question is fighting at.</blockquote><p>spot on.  the OP has some kind of grudge.  I love the fact that a sorcerer can just press 2 or 3 buttons and kill someone.  I lol'd in RL when I read that.  Everyone thinks manashield is some kind of godsend or something.  Anyone that dies, because manashield saved the sorcerer is a noob.  Period.  I have fought many a 1 v 1 and still lost with manashield.  All i can do is tip my hat to them, cause those peeps had some serious DPS.  The classes with average or below average dps, if you sit there with mana popped, then you deserve to die.</p><p> Anyway, I guess it's the OP opinion on titles, and fair enough.. I just find his/her remarks on sorcerers a bit laughable.  </p><p>happy new year all!</p></blockquote>whoa whoa whoa. Obviously its different at higher tiers but let me just say that the players who died because of manashield arent noobs.If you cant tear it off and you arent a dps god then odds are that wizzy/lock is winning.At higher levels there are a lot more ways to deal with it. But between 20-40 it can be a nightmare. I dare you to roll a paladin and beat a sorc using manashield before level 50. I doubt it has ever happend aside from freak green con mistakes where the sorcerer refused to do anything throughout the duration.</blockquote><p>My point was, it doesn't matter what tier you are in.  Manashield is avoidable, use anti- root pots, and when you see the manashield icon move out of range, move around a corner, behind a rock, mezz if you can.. point is, there are ways around it.  That is what I was getting at.  If you have the dps to burn it, then great.   If not, a well played toon can counter it.  I have seen it happen to me many times.  The ones who don't counter it are the ones I was referring to.</p><p> I realize that not each class, no matter what tier, will be able to burn through it.  I was mainly referring to fact that if you die "because" the sorcerer used manashield, then maybe you need to reevaluate your tactics when fighting a sorcerer.  Anyways, I don't want to derail the OP's thread.  We have debated the merits of manashield ad nauseum on here.</p><p> happy new year!</p>

Oneira
12-30-2007, 06:15 AM
<cite>seahawk91 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Psych wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>seahawk91 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>You forgot to mention which tier you are referring to. Cause all of the examples that you cited are either truth or complete fiction depending on which tier the class in question is fighting at.</blockquote><p>spot on.  the OP has some kind of grudge.  I love the fact that a sorcerer can just press 2 or 3 buttons and kill someone.  I lol'd in RL when I read that.  Everyone thinks manashield is some kind of godsend or something.  Anyone that dies, because manashield saved the sorcerer is a noob.  Period.  I have fought many a 1 v 1 and still lost with manashield.  All i can do is tip my hat to them, cause those peeps had some serious DPS.  The classes with average or below average dps, if you sit there with mana popped, then you deserve to die.</p><p> Anyway, I guess it's the OP opinion on titles, and fair enough.. I just find his/her remarks on sorcerers a bit laughable.  </p><p>happy new year all!</p></blockquote>whoa whoa whoa. Obviously its different at higher tiers but let me just say that the players who died because of manashield arent noobs.If you cant tear it off and you arent a dps god then odds are that wizzy/lock is winning.At higher levels there are a lot more ways to deal with it. But between 20-40 it can be a nightmare. I dare you to roll a paladin and beat a sorc using manashield before level 50. I doubt it has ever happend aside from freak green con mistakes where the sorcerer refused to do anything throughout the duration.</blockquote><p>My point was, it doesn't matter what tier you are in.  Manashield is avoidable, use anti- root pots, and when you see the manashield icon move out of range, move around a corner, behind a rock, mezz if you can.. point is, there are ways around it.  That is what I was getting at.  If you have the dps to burn it, then great.   If not, a well played toon can counter it.  I have seen it happen to me many times.  The ones who don't counter it are the ones I was referring to.</p><p> I realize that not each class, no matter what tier, will be able to burn through it.  I was mainly referring to fact that if you die "because" the sorcerer used manashield, then maybe you need to reevaluate your tactics when fighting a sorcerer.  Anyways, I don't want to derail the OP's thread.  We have debated the merits of manashield ad nauseum on here.</p><p> happy new year!</p></blockquote>Trixeebell:  yes, there are ways around manashield, but let's be honest: it is one of if not the most powerful AA skill in the game for pvp.  My illusionist would kill just to get a sorc's regenerating magi shielding ward, never mind manashield.  And getting around manashield is not as easy as you say--you can't just pop a potion and run out of range before a sorc can plaster you.  As an illy I have it a little easier, because at least I can mezz, however that will by no means tilt the scales in my favor.  I'm not really against manashield because it's something that sorcerors needed really badly.  Otherwise they were just walking tokens.Anyway...the proposed change coming in LU 42 should take care of things.  WHo cares about titles anyway?

Norrsken
12-30-2007, 07:45 AM
<cite>Oneira wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>seahawk91 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Psych wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>seahawk91 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>You forgot to mention which tier you are referring to. Cause all of the examples that you cited are either truth or complete fiction depending on which tier the class in question is fighting at.</blockquote><p>spot on.  the OP has some kind of grudge.  I love the fact that a sorcerer can just press 2 or 3 buttons and kill someone.  I lol'd in RL when I read that.  Everyone thinks manashield is some kind of godsend or something.  Anyone that dies, because manashield saved the sorcerer is a noob.  Period.  I have fought many a 1 v 1 and still lost with manashield.  All i can do is tip my hat to them, cause those peeps had some serious DPS.  The classes with average or below average dps, if you sit there with mana popped, then you deserve to die.</p><p> Anyway, I guess it's the OP opinion on titles, and fair enough.. I just find his/her remarks on sorcerers a bit laughable.  </p><p>happy new year all!</p></blockquote>whoa whoa whoa. Obviously its different at higher tiers but let me just say that the players who died because of manashield arent noobs.If you cant tear it off and you arent a dps god then odds are that wizzy/lock is winning.At higher levels there are a lot more ways to deal with it. But between 20-40 it can be a nightmare. I dare you to roll a paladin and beat a sorc using manashield before level 50. I doubt it has ever happend aside from freak green con mistakes where the sorcerer refused to do anything throughout the duration.</blockquote><p>My point was, it doesn't matter what tier you are in.  Manashield is avoidable, use anti- root pots, and when you see the manashield icon move out of range, move around a corner, behind a rock, mezz if you can.. point is, there are ways around it.  That is what I was getting at.  If you have the dps to burn it, then great.   If not, a well played toon can counter it.  I have seen it happen to me many times.  The ones who don't counter it are the ones I was referring to.</p><p> I realize that not each class, no matter what tier, will be able to burn through it.  I was mainly referring to fact that if you die "because" the sorcerer used manashield, then maybe you need to reevaluate your tactics when fighting a sorcerer.  Anyways, I don't want to derail the OP's thread.  We have debated the merits of manashield ad nauseum on here.</p><p> happy new year!</p></blockquote>Trixeebell:  yes, there are ways around manashield, but let's be honest: it is one of if not the most powerful AA skill in the game for pvp.  My illusionist would kill just to get a sorc's regenerating magi shielding ward, never mind manashield.  And getting around manashield is not as easy as you say--you can't just pop a potion and run out of range before a sorc can plaster you.  As an illy I have it a little easier, because at least I can mezz, however that will by no means tilt the scales in my favor.  I'm not really against manashield because it's something that sorcerors needed really badly.  Otherwise they were just walking tokens.Anyway...the proposed change coming in LU 42 should take care of things.  WHo cares about titles anyway?</blockquote>Manashield is a powerful skill, I'll give you that. but the most powerful one? Nah.I can think of a few that rivals it for that position. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Norrsken
12-30-2007, 07:49 AM
<cite>Psych wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>seahawk91 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>You forgot to mention which tier you are referring to. Cause all of the examples that you cited are either truth or complete fiction depending on which tier the class in question is fighting at.</blockquote><p>spot on.  the OP has some kind of grudge.  I love the fact that a sorcerer can just press 2 or 3 buttons and kill someone.  I lol'd in RL when I read that.  Everyone thinks manashield is some kind of godsend or something.  Anyone that dies, because manashield saved the sorcerer is a noob.  Period.  I have fought many a 1 v 1 and still lost with manashield.  All i can do is tip my hat to them, cause those peeps had some serious DPS.  The classes with average or below average dps, if you sit there with mana popped, then you deserve to die.</p><p> Anyway, I guess it's the OP opinion on titles, and fair enough.. I just find his/her remarks on sorcerers a bit laughable.  </p><p>happy new year all!</p></blockquote>whoa whoa whoa. Obviously its different at higher tiers but let me just say that the players who died because of manashield arent noobs.If you cant tear it off and you arent a dps god then odds are that wizzy/lock is winning.At higher levels there are a lot more ways to deal with it. But between 20-40 it can be a nightmare. I dare you to roll a paladin and beat a sorc using manashield before level 50. I doubt it has ever happend aside from freak green con mistakes where the sorcerer refused to do anything throughout the duration.</blockquote>I am fairly sure that pallies have a crapton of knockbacks. whenever you see that sorc wiggling his fingers, kick him. Thats how I deal with MS on my low dps toons. that or just CC. I normally never even try to outrun a sorc's nukes since, well, I wont have the time to. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Scatimus
12-31-2007, 10:53 AM
<p>I am a mage, i do press a few button to win fights.  I press one, wait 3 seconds, press another, wait 3 seconds, lol.  that is the dumbest comment i have ever seen.  obviously he does understand how long cast times for mages are.  even with the aa's my damage spells take forever to cast.</p><p>im sorry you lost to a mage, but it is not an easy class to play.</p>

Gimet
12-31-2007, 03:44 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I am a mage, i do press a few button to win fights.  I press one, wait 3 seconds, press another, wait 3 seconds, lol.  that is the dumbest comment i have ever seen.  obviously he does understand how long cast times for mages are.  even with the aa's my damage spells take forever to cast.</p><p>im sorry you lost to a mage, but it is not an easy class to play.</p></blockquote><p>You obviously are ignorant to who what I am. I am a Conjuror. In the time it takes you to cast one spell and do about 800 damage I have to cast 2...sometimes even 3. Now, tell me...as a conjuror with one stun that stops casting and one interrupt...how am I suppose to stop your rediculous nukes and stop you from gettign Mana-shield off?</p><p>Also</p><p>How am I going to defend myself to incoming damage from a scout? If I hadn't gone down Evocation and made all of my casting time 1.5 seconds....I would be losing a lot more, and i know this for a fact because i only recently decided to go down Evocations. My Critical hits only hit for a Fraciton of your nukes. Tremor does 400-600(PvE damage mind you) damage for me usually. Shattered Ground hits for about 80-110 every second for about...5 seconds. Now, what damage can sorcs do compared to my two nukes. MY crits from Theurgist line can't even hit a shard as you can sometimes. Also, all of my big attacks are surely Master over Adept 3 and below.</p><p>I love how people assume that I don't know anything.</p>

Rhannnn
12-31-2007, 04:04 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite> <blockquote><blockquote>You obviously are ignorant to who what I am. I am a Conjuror. In the time it takes you to cast one spell and do about 800 damage I have to cast 2...sometimes even 3. Now, tell me...as a conjuror with one stun that stops casting and one interrupt...how am I suppose to stop your rediculous nukes and stop you from gettign Mana-shield off?</blockquote></blockquote><p>Not entierly true. You are forgetting your Pet damage in this equasion. The moment you click your - pet attack button - you start doing DPS. </p><p>Rhan</p><p>Lvl70 Ranger</p>

Gimet
12-31-2007, 04:28 PM
<cite>Rhannnn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite> <blockquote><blockquote>You obviously are ignorant to who what I am. I am a Conjuror. In the time it takes you to cast one spell and do about 800 damage I have to cast 2...sometimes even 3. Now, tell me...as a conjuror with one stun that stops casting and one interrupt...how am I suppose to stop your rediculous nukes and stop you from gettign Mana-shield off?</blockquote></blockquote><p>Not entierly true. You are forgetting your Pet damage in this equasion. The moment you click your - pet attack button - you start doing DPS. </p><p>Rhan</p><p>Lvl70 Ranger</p></blockquote><p>True, however....</p><p>Tank Pet= No DPS</p><p>Scout Pet= About 200+ a hit...decent....</p><p>Mage Pet= Lots of DPS, best for PvP...though less than 500 HP and can almost instantly be killed.</p><p>But yes, I didn't take into account how much our pets hit for.</p>

Raidyen
12-31-2007, 04:36 PM
<cite>Psych wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>seahawk91 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>You forgot to mention which tier you are referring to. Cause all of the examples that you cited are either truth or complete fiction depending on which tier the class in question is fighting at.</blockquote><p>spot on.  the OP has some kind of grudge.  I love the fact that a sorcerer can just press 2 or 3 buttons and kill someone.  I lol'd in RL when I read that.  Everyone thinks manashield is some kind of godsend or something.  Anyone that dies, because manashield saved the sorcerer is a noob.  Period.  I have fought many a 1 v 1 and still lost with manashield.  All i can do is tip my hat to them, cause those peeps had some serious DPS.  The classes with average or below average dps, if you sit there with mana popped, then you deserve to die.</p><p> Anyway, I guess it's the OP opinion on titles, and fair enough.. I just find his/her remarks on sorcerers a bit laughable.  </p><p>happy new year all!</p></blockquote>whoa whoa whoa. Obviously its different at higher tiers but let me just say that the players who died because of manashield arent noobs.If you cant tear it off and you arent a dps god then odds are that wizzy/lock is winning.At higher levels there are a lot more ways to deal with it. But between 20-40 it can be a nightmare. I dare you to roll a paladin and beat a sorc using manashield before level 50. I doubt it has ever happend aside from freak green con mistakes where the sorcerer refused to do anything throughout the duration.</blockquote><p>Um, actually my wife and i play a pally wizard duo, and are currently 58.  We have fought in the arena to work our skills in pvp back in the 30's.  A pally CAN beat a wizard that pops manashield.  It takes skill on the pally's part, and the right AA spec, but it can absolutely be done, and thats without using the pumis stones.  DPSing through manashield is not the only way to beat it.  Post 50, we havent gone back becuase honestly im afraid she will really kick my wizards [Removed for Content] now with the AA final's she has.  Maybe at 65 when i get fusion i will think about it.  Don't be so fast to discount a pally, they may not be a dps powerhouse, but thier staying power in a fight is only matched imo to a druids.</p>

Mwahaha
12-31-2007, 05:43 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>EQ2 is a PvE game with a PvP feature. PvP will never be balanced, and some class will always be on top. Therefore...</p><p>Scouts- With the exception of Bards and in part Assassins, take 2 titles away. Therefore your Destroyer title is actaully a Hunter title. Maybe late Slayer. Your track gives you avoidance and the ability to stalk people. Your evac allows you to choose when to fight. And your run-speed gives you the chance to flee before or after they hit you. Bards, your titles are really a representative of your skill. I got Slayer on my Swashbuckler with my Apprentice 4 spells. I don't know many other classes that can do that. Scouts are the kings of PvP at the moment. You have no right to say "I pwned you" or "You suck" or call people scared when they deny your 1v1. You also don't have the right to say L2P.</p><p>Priests- Druids, come on now. You're almost the same boat as Scouts. You cannot say L2P, you cannot insult people for saying no to your 1v1's. Take 1 Title away. Wardens, I'm even tempted to tell you to take 2 titles away, but your DPS isn't as instant as a Furies or a Scouts. Only issue with you guys is you never run out of power and your heals are rediculous especially when you have AA to make them Critical. Clerics, you do play rough classes to master in PvP. Your heals take long to cast and you become victims to burst DPS...I think you are deserving of your title. Shamans, you guys rock at PvP if played well...but when not played well, you really find yourself in trouble. Defilers, you get way strong in some teirs....but I still have to give you the benefit of the doubt.</p><p>Mages- Sorcerers, go play a REAL mage class. Are you getting hit too hard? Pop a mana-shield. What do other mages do? Die. You need to kill someone fast enough? Fine, randomly click 2 or 3 of your spells. What do other mages do? We have to use all of our spells to whin sometimes. Take away....2 titles. You are not supposed to be able to nuke with spells as scouts do with their CA's. Sure, you have to cast...but what can Priests (Minus Druids) and other Mages to do? Fighters can't even stand up to your DPS. Enchanters, all about your skill. Plain and simple. Your title is well earned. A true indication of skill. Summoners, and I'm not just saying this because I am one, go ahead and add 1 title for effort and patience of playing this class. Even when played well you find yourself struggling to win many times. Your defense does not work correctly in PvP, you can hardly stand to a well played Mage, and you get dropped faster than any other class I've seen.</p><p>Fighters- Minus Brawlers who have scout-like DPS, your Title is well earned or in some cases in need of a +1. Brawlers, and you know it's true, you almost are impossible to hit, you have amazing DPS for a fighter, and you can almost easily beat Druids...I've seen it happen. I like the Brawler classes...but take 1/2 to 1 title away because of your sick DPS. Then again I may be wrong....I've only played a Monk in the Fighter category, I've never tried the other ones.</p><p>That's just how I see it. Not everyone has the same rights as other classes simply because there is no balance. So the community will do it for you and let you know when you have a Bogus title.</p></blockquote>So based on this logic a class such as a bard or cleric can leech fame all day off of higher levels and eventually get a title.  Since they aren't a "easymode" class they earned their title, right?My point?  Titles don't mean anything.  Having a high title doesn't exactly mean your skilled in your class.  You can autofollow a group of great players and get a high title just by being in the same group as them.  Pvp to fight, don't pvp to worry about a title.

Gimet
12-31-2007, 08:27 PM
<cite><a href="mailto:[email protected]" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">[email protected]</a> wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>EQ2 is a PvE game with a PvP feature. PvP will never be balanced, and some class will always be on top. Therefore...</p><p>Scouts- With the exception of Bards and in part Assassins, take 2 titles away. Therefore your Destroyer title is actaully a Hunter title. Maybe late Slayer. Your track gives you avoidance and the ability to stalk people. Your evac allows you to choose when to fight. And your run-speed gives you the chance to flee before or after they hit you. Bards, your titles are really a representative of your skill. I got Slayer on my Swashbuckler with my Apprentice 4 spells. I don't know many other classes that can do that. Scouts are the kings of PvP at the moment. You have no right to say "I pwned you" or "You suck" or call people scared when they deny your 1v1. You also don't have the right to say L2P.</p><p>Priests- Druids, come on now. You're almost the same boat as Scouts. You cannot say L2P, you cannot insult people for saying no to your 1v1's. Take 1 Title away. Wardens, I'm even tempted to tell you to take 2 titles away, but your DPS isn't as instant as a Furies or a Scouts. Only issue with you guys is you never run out of power and your heals are rediculous especially when you have AA to make them Critical. Clerics, you do play rough classes to master in PvP. Your heals take long to cast and you become victims to burst DPS...I think you are deserving of your title. Shamans, you guys rock at PvP if played well...but when not played well, you really find yourself in trouble. Defilers, you get way strong in some teirs....but I still have to give you the benefit of the doubt.</p><p>Mages- Sorcerers, go play a REAL mage class. Are you getting hit too hard? Pop a mana-shield. What do other mages do? Die. You need to kill someone fast enough? Fine, randomly click 2 or 3 of your spells. What do other mages do? We have to use all of our spells to whin sometimes. Take away....2 titles. You are not supposed to be able to nuke with spells as scouts do with their CA's. Sure, you have to cast...but what can Priests (Minus Druids) and other Mages to do? Fighters can't even stand up to your DPS. Enchanters, all about your skill. Plain and simple. Your title is well earned. A true indication of skill. Summoners, and I'm not just saying this because I am one, go ahead and add 1 title for effort and patience of playing this class. Even when played well you find yourself struggling to win many times. Your defense does not work correctly in PvP, you can hardly stand to a well played Mage, and you get dropped faster than any other class I've seen.</p><p>Fighters- Minus Brawlers who have scout-like DPS, your Title is well earned or in some cases in need of a +1. Brawlers, and you know it's true, you almost are impossible to hit, you have amazing DPS for a fighter, and you can almost easily beat Druids...I've seen it happen. I like the Brawler classes...but take 1/2 to 1 title away because of your sick DPS. Then again I may be wrong....I've only played a Monk in the Fighter category, I've never tried the other ones.</p><p>That's just how I see it. Not everyone has the same rights as other classes simply because there is no balance. So the community will do it for you and let you know when you have a Bogus title.</p></blockquote>So based on this logic a class such as a bard or cleric can leech fame all day off of higher levels and eventually get a title.  Since they aren't a "easymode" class they earned their title, right?My point?  Titles don't mean anything.  Having a high title doesn't exactly mean your skilled in your class.  You can autofollow a group of great players and get a high title just by being in the same group as them.  Pvp to fight, don't pvp to worry about a title.</blockquote><p>HOw often do you Die to Champions compared to no titles? Titles DO show skill on many occasions more than when they don't. I'd like you to rush on a General ANY class and see how close you get to winning.</p><p>"a class such as a bard or cleric can leech fame all day off of higher levels and eventually get a title.  Since they aren't a "easymode"</p><p>Erm, to that comment....What is leeching to you? Them grouping with other people? Well guess what, this is a group based game. If you earn your title in a group, you obviously contribute to them enough for them to invite you each time. I don't know one person that would let someone just sit there in their gorup wastign space for someone els ewho could do something.</p><p>"Having a high title doesn't exactly mean your skilled in your class."</p><p>Once again, the title shows skill more often than it doesn't. I'll put it like this....You see a Warlock specced for Mana-shield with a Destroyer title, and a Conjuror specced for Stoneskin also at Destroyer....now really, which do you think has put most effort for their title? I think the Conjuror did...Want another?</p><p>You see a Ranger with General, and you see a Mystic with General....who do you think worked harder? The Ranger or the Mystic.....I think the Mystic did.</p>

Mwahaha
12-31-2007, 09:07 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite><a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:[email protected]" target="_blank">[email protected]</a> wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>EQ2 is a PvE game with a PvP feature. PvP will never be balanced, and some class will always be on top. Therefore...</p><p>Scouts- With the exception of Bards and in part Assassins, take 2 titles away. Therefore your Destroyer title is actaully a Hunter title. Maybe late Slayer. Your track gives you avoidance and the ability to stalk people. Your evac allows you to choose when to fight. And your run-speed gives you the chance to flee before or after they hit you. Bards, your titles are really a representative of your skill. I got Slayer on my Swashbuckler with my Apprentice 4 spells. I don't know many other classes that can do that. Scouts are the kings of PvP at the moment. You have no right to say "I pwned you" or "You suck" or call people scared when they deny your 1v1. You also don't have the right to say L2P.</p><p>Priests- Druids, come on now. You're almost the same boat as Scouts. You cannot say L2P, you cannot insult people for saying no to your 1v1's. Take 1 Title away. Wardens, I'm even tempted to tell you to take 2 titles away, but your DPS isn't as instant as a Furies or a Scouts. Only issue with you guys is you never run out of power and your heals are rediculous especially when you have AA to make them Critical. Clerics, you do play rough classes to master in PvP. Your heals take long to cast and you become victims to burst DPS...I think you are deserving of your title. Shamans, you guys rock at PvP if played well...but when not played well, you really find yourself in trouble. Defilers, you get way strong in some teirs....but I still have to give you the benefit of the doubt.</p><p>Mages- Sorcerers, go play a REAL mage class. Are you getting hit too hard? Pop a mana-shield. What do other mages do? Die. You need to kill someone fast enough? Fine, randomly click 2 or 3 of your spells. What do other mages do? We have to use all of our spells to whin sometimes. Take away....2 titles. You are not supposed to be able to nuke with spells as scouts do with their CA's. Sure, you have to cast...but what can Priests (Minus Druids) and other Mages to do? Fighters can't even stand up to your DPS. Enchanters, all about your skill. Plain and simple. Your title is well earned. A true indication of skill. Summoners, and I'm not just saying this because I am one, go ahead and add 1 title for effort and patience of playing this class. Even when played well you find yourself struggling to win many times. Your defense does not work correctly in PvP, you can hardly stand to a well played Mage, and you get dropped faster than any other class I've seen.</p><p>Fighters- Minus Brawlers who have scout-like DPS, your Title is well earned or in some cases in need of a +1. Brawlers, and you know it's true, you almost are impossible to hit, you have amazing DPS for a fighter, and you can almost easily beat Druids...I've seen it happen. I like the Brawler classes...but take 1/2 to 1 title away because of your sick DPS. Then again I may be wrong....I've only played a Monk in the Fighter category, I've never tried the other ones.</p><p>That's just how I see it. Not everyone has the same rights as other classes simply because there is no balance. So the community will do it for you and let you know when you have a Bogus title.</p></blockquote>So based on this logic a class such as a bard or cleric can leech fame all day off of higher levels and eventually get a title.  Since they aren't a "easymode" class they earned their title, right?My point?  Titles don't mean anything.  Having a high title doesn't exactly mean your skilled in your class.  You can autofollow a group of great players and get a high title just by being in the same group as them.  Pvp to fight, don't pvp to worry about a title.</blockquote><p>HOw often do you Die to Champions compared to no titles? Titles DO show skill on many occasions more than when they don't. I'd like you to rush on a General ANY class and see how close you get to winning.</p><p><b>Every time I've attacked a player with a high title they always seem to run if they get to 50%.  Got to hug that title.  </b><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />  <b>So are you saying a unranked person can't kill a overseer?  If so then its time to wake up because your dreaming.</b></p><p>"a class such as a bard or cleric can leech fame all day off of higher levels and eventually get a title.  Since they aren't a "easymode"</p><p>Erm, to that comment....What is leeching to you? Them grouping with other people? Well guess what, this is a group based game. If you earn your title in a group, you obviously contribute to them enough for them to invite you each time. I don't know one person that would let someone just sit there in their gorup wastign space for someone els ewho could do something.</p><p><b>Leeching to me is people "watching" a fight then getting a hit in to get fame as well as someone not doing their part in a group while everyone else does the work for them.  And my point is that you can get fame by doing nothing and get a high title by doing nothing.  Please point out in my last post where I said anything about EQ2 not being a group based game.</b></p><p>"Having a high title doesn't exactly mean your skilled in your class."</p><p>Once again, the title shows skill more often than it doesn't. I'll put it like this....You see a Warlock specced for Mana-shield with a Destroyer title, and a Conjuror specced for Stoneskin also at Destroyer....now really, which do you think has put most effort for their title? I think the Conjuror did...Want another?</p><p><b>You <i>think </i>the conjuror did?  The </b><b>conjuror </b><b>with the destroyer title could of done nothing more than follow a group around and threw in a few nukes at the bad guys.  All I was pointing out was that not everyone who has a high title has the skill to back it up.  You can sit here and assume that the conjuror got his title all solo but assuming gets you no where and you know how the saying goes...</b></p><p>You see a Ranger with General, and you see a Mystic with General....who do you think worked harder? The Ranger or the Mystic.....I think the Mystic did.</p><p><b>Here we go again with assuming things.  We can sit here and assume the mystic solo pvped 100% of the time and got general or assume the mystic leeched fame to get general.  Who knows.  </b></p></blockquote>

Stinkybeagle
12-31-2007, 09:16 PM
<p>Titles should be based on Kill vs death ratio and how or wear most of your battles take place.   "Kragnog the Ganked / suicidal" "Kragnok the master of arrows" Kragnos The runner". "kragnox , killer of many" Kragnox killed by many"</p><p>If they can make a title system in the total war series games that reflect on how you play your general then im shure it shouldnt be hard with a huge game like this.  pvp alot or even the class you pvp with. Titles are wayyyy too underdefined here and you really dont know how they got that title. I honestly havnt payed much attention to titles since the 3rd month of pvp realease for obvious reasons.</p>

Gimet
12-31-2007, 09:34 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite><a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:[email protected]" target="_blank">[email protected]</a> wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>EQ2 is a PvE game with a PvP feature. PvP will never be balanced, and some class will always be on top. Therefore...</p><p>Scouts- With the exception of Bards and in part Assassins, take 2 titles away. Therefore your Destroyer title is actaully a Hunter title. Maybe late Slayer. Your track gives you avoidance and the ability to stalk people. Your evac allows you to choose when to fight. And your run-speed gives you the chance to flee before or after they hit you. Bards, your titles are really a representative of your skill. I got Slayer on my Swashbuckler with my Apprentice 4 spells. I don't know many other classes that can do that. Scouts are the kings of PvP at the moment. You have no right to say "I pwned you" or "You suck" or call people scared when they deny your 1v1. You also don't have the right to say L2P.</p><p>Priests- Druids, come on now. You're almost the same boat as Scouts. You cannot say L2P, you cannot insult people for saying no to your 1v1's. Take 1 Title away. Wardens, I'm even tempted to tell you to take 2 titles away, but your DPS isn't as instant as a Furies or a Scouts. Only issue with you guys is you never run out of power and your heals are rediculous especially when you have AA to make them Critical. Clerics, you do play rough classes to master in PvP. Your heals take long to cast and you become victims to burst DPS...I think you are deserving of your title. Shamans, you guys rock at PvP if played well...but when not played well, you really find yourself in trouble. Defilers, you get way strong in some teirs....but I still have to give you the benefit of the doubt.</p><p>Mages- Sorcerers, go play a REAL mage class. Are you getting hit too hard? Pop a mana-shield. What do other mages do? Die. You need to kill someone fast enough? Fine, randomly click 2 or 3 of your spells. What do other mages do? We have to use all of our spells to whin sometimes. Take away....2 titles. You are not supposed to be able to nuke with spells as scouts do with their CA's. Sure, you have to cast...but what can Priests (Minus Druids) and other Mages to do? Fighters can't even stand up to your DPS. Enchanters, all about your skill. Plain and simple. Your title is well earned. A true indication of skill. Summoners, and I'm not just saying this because I am one, go ahead and add 1 title for effort and patience of playing this class. Even when played well you find yourself struggling to win many times. Your defense does not work correctly in PvP, you can hardly stand to a well played Mage, and you get dropped faster than any other class I've seen.</p><p>Fighters- Minus Brawlers who have scout-like DPS, your Title is well earned or in some cases in need of a +1. Brawlers, and you know it's true, you almost are impossible to hit, you have amazing DPS for a fighter, and you can almost easily beat Druids...I've seen it happen. I like the Brawler classes...but take 1/2 to 1 title away because of your sick DPS. Then again I may be wrong....I've only played a Monk in the Fighter category, I've never tried the other ones.</p><p>That's just how I see it. Not everyone has the same rights as other classes simply because there is no balance. So the community will do it for you and let you know when you have a Bogus title.</p></blockquote>So based on this logic a class such as a bard or cleric can leech fame all day off of higher levels and eventually get a title.  Since they aren't a "easymode" class they earned their title, right?My point?  Titles don't mean anything.  Having a high title doesn't exactly mean your skilled in your class.  You can autofollow a group of great players and get a high title just by being in the same group as them.  Pvp to fight, don't pvp to worry about a title.</blockquote><p>HOw often do you Die to Champions compared to no titles? Titles DO show skill on <span style="font-size: large;">many occasions more</span> than when they don't. I'd like you to rush on a General ANY class and see how close you get to winning.</p><p><b>Every time I've attacked a player with a high title they always seem to run if they get to 50%.  Got to hug that title.  </b><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />  <b>So are you saying a unranked person can't kill a overseer?  If so then its time to wake up because your dreaming.</b></p><p>"a class such as a bard or cleric can leech fame all day off of higher levels and eventually get a title.  Since they aren't a "easymode"</p><p>Erm, to that comment....What is leeching to you? Them grouping with other people? Well guess what, this is a group based game. If you earn your title in a group, you obviously contribute to them enough for them to invite you each time. I don't know one person that would let someone just sit there in their gorup wastign space for someone els ewho could do something.</p><p><b>Leeching to me is people "watching" a fight then getting a hit in to get fame as well as someone not doing their part in a group while everyone else does the work for them.  And my point is that you can get fame by doing nothing and get a high title by doing nothing.  Please point out in my last post where I said anything about EQ2 not being a group based game.</b></p><p>"Having a high title doesn't exactly mean your skilled in your class."</p><p>Once again, the title <span style="font-size: large;">shows skill more often than</span> it doesn't. I'll put it like this....You see a Warlock specced for Mana-shield with a Destroyer title, and a Conjuror specced for Stoneskin also at Destroyer....now really, which do you think has put most effort for their title? I think the Conjuror did...Want another?</p><p><b>You <i>think </i>the conjuror did?  The </b><b>conjuror </b><b>with the destroyer title could of done nothing more than follow a group around and threw in a few nukes at the bad guys.  All I was pointing out was that not everyone who has a high title has the skill to back it up.  You can sit here and assume that the conjuror got his title all solo but assuming gets you no where and you know how the saying goes...</b></p><p>You see a Ranger with General, and you see a Mystic with General....who do you think worked harder? The Ranger or the Mystic.....I think the Mystic did.</p><p><b>Here we go again with assuming things.  We can sit here and assume the mystic solo pvped 100% of the time and got general or assume the mystic leeched fame to get general.  Who knows.  </b></p></blockquote></blockquote><p>Are you blind? Here, let me bold a few phrases for you...</p><p>When I say more, I don't mena always. Titles do show skill...just not all of the time. And I believe it shows more skill more of them time than the supposed leechers you're talkign about.</p><p>Title does show skill. Not all of the time, given. But I think that it does more often than it doesn't.</p>

Sightless
12-31-2007, 10:19 PM
<p>Enlocke</p><p>Titles don't show skill, so much as they show gear. You can alsmost follow a characters gear by their title. Look at the gear most Dreadnaughts and Generals have. And anyone can group up in a 6 man group and get a high title.</p>

Stinkybeagle
12-31-2007, 10:25 PM
<p>The problem with a unranked person killing a overseer is that the unranked person will not effect an overseers title. </p><p>     Last but not least , who has more fame? Edward Gein Or Lee harvey Oswald? Id say pretty much about the same.....but the diffrent  fame they have it what makes the difference. Change the title system becouse it is trivial.................</p>

Gimet
01-01-2008, 12:19 AM
<cite>Sightless wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Enlocke</p><p>Titles don't show skill, so much as they show gear. You can alsmost follow a characters gear by their title. Look at the gear most Dreadnaughts and Generals have. And anyone can group up in a 6 man group and get a high title.</p></blockquote>If that's the case, we all know that EQ2 PvP takes no skill at all.It's about who has the higher leveled spells and CA's and the best gear. Skill is tertiary if even needed in the PvP aspect of this game. The best skilled <insert class here> with horrible gear and CA's won't stand a chance.

Sightless
01-01-2008, 01:39 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sightless wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Enlocke</p><p>Titles don't show skill, so much as they show gear. You can alsmost follow a characters gear by their title. Look at the gear most Dreadnaughts and Generals have. And anyone can group up in a 6 man group and get a high title.</p></blockquote>If that's the case, we all know that EQ2 PvP takes no skill at all.It's about who has the higher leveled spells and CA's and the best gear. Skill is tertiary if even needed in the PvP aspect of this game. The best skilled <insert class here> with horrible gear and CA's won't stand a chance.</blockquote><p>There is skill, but it's minute. The skill in EQ2 PvP amounts to... Time spent, Knowledge like knowledge in the classes they fight against and their strongest abilities, and how to counter them. Knowledge in the items any class can use that can, and will change the tide of a fight into your favor. Knowledge in your own skills, and how best to use them.</p><p>Before the level increase any new level 70 without enough tokens to get a full suit of PvP armor was inferior to existing level 70s like Ajjantis who had a full suit of PvP armor, and other fabled (raid type gear). The gear alone put those people above any newer level 70, and the advantage wasn't small either.</p>

Psych
01-01-2008, 02:36 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Psych wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>seahawk91 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>You forgot to mention which tier you are referring to. Cause all of the examples that you cited are either truth or complete fiction depending on which tier the class in question is fighting at.</blockquote><p>spot on.  the OP has some kind of grudge.  I love the fact that a sorcerer can just press 2 or 3 buttons and kill someone.  I lol'd in RL when I read that.  Everyone thinks manashield is some kind of godsend or something.  Anyone that dies, because manashield saved the sorcerer is a noob.  Period.  I have fought many a 1 v 1 and still lost with manashield.  All i can do is tip my hat to them, cause those peeps had some serious DPS.  The classes with average or below average dps, if you sit there with mana popped, then you deserve to die.</p><p> Anyway, I guess it's the OP opinion on titles, and fair enough.. I just find his/her remarks on sorcerers a bit laughable.  </p><p>happy new year all!</p></blockquote>whoa whoa whoa. Obviously its different at higher tiers but let me just say that the players who died because of manashield arent noobs.If you cant tear it off and you arent a dps god then odds are that wizzy/lock is winning.At higher levels there are a lot more ways to deal with it. But between 20-40 it can be a nightmare. I dare you to roll a paladin and beat a sorc using manashield before level 50. I doubt it has ever happend aside from freak green con mistakes where the sorcerer refused to do anything throughout the duration.</blockquote><p>Um, actually my wife and i play a pally wizard duo, and are currently 58.  We have fought in the arena to work our skills in pvp back in the 30's.  A pally CAN beat a wizard that pops manashield.  It takes skill on the pally's part, and the right AA spec, but it can absolutely be done, and thats without using the pumis stones.  DPSing through manashield is not the only way to beat it.  Post 50, we havent gone back becuase honestly im afraid she will really kick my wizards [I cannot control my vocabulary] now with the AA final's she has.  Maybe at 65 when i get fusion i will think about it.  Don't be so fast to discount a pally, they may not be a dps powerhouse, but thier staying power in a fight is only matched imo to a druids.</p></blockquote>Hrmm...well I know you did say you play a paladin/wizard duo but your avatar is the swashbuckler avatar and your signature is your swashys signature too.I am currently 26 or 27 on my paladin and I'd love to know what tactics you used to beat the wizard you beat who was using mana shield.I person on here said pallys have a load of knockback, well yeah my kick and my shield bash. They work great for interrupting players. But without stealth the odds of getting either of those off before I can be rooted as I approach the wizard are slim to none. I have 1 stun on my divine strike and another 2 stuns that arent directed. As in one is a aoe spell that can stun 20% of the time and the other is a 1.6 per minute proc. The 2 knockbacks are on a 10 second timer (kick line) and a shield bash on a 20 second timer.The divine strike with 2 second stun is on a 30 second timer.I also get a single target DD spell that interrupts on a 20 second timer. Interrupts arent huge but I use it when I see their hands leave their sides.Now given all this there is no way I can keep them from casting mana shield throughout the fight even if I were to get within melee range before they ever spotted me.So assuming my opponent casted mana shield please enlighten me as to what you did to defeat them. Cause myself its basically I charge they root. They burn through my ward and one third of my bar before I can get a single heal off. Wards back up, casting it. Stunned. Recasting it. Half health now. Lay of Hands. Root breaks. Charge them, lay in with knock backs and stun. Shred some of their bar for the first 10-15 seconds then I run out of interrupting gas and they mana shield.After that its over. They nuke a bit more inbetween my attakcks, finally get a second root, and its done.I'd love for you to tell me how you start a fight with a wizard and win after they use mana shield without Doom Judgement. (lvl 35 move) which I'm not sure (dont have it) but sounds as if it might be very useful against wizards and especially warlocks.The people saying to break line of sight with nearby terrain well maybe you can do that against wizards that dont know what line of sight is but on my coercer in 36 levels of PVP I found it easy to keep anyone in line of sight for plenty of time. The only times I did lose them was when they refused to engage and had a significant runspeed advantage after root broke and that was only when I had no pet and thus didnt have nearly enough DPS to kill them....mezzing and good stuns make a difference but a wizard can do much more damage during their root than my coercer can during his mezz since mez breaks on damage.Honestly, I dont know what a wizard is doing if they fight a paladin for 30 seconds straight and havnt pushed him far enough behind in the heal vs dps race that they have won.I cant wrap my head around it! So please if you could tell me how you beat your friend on their wizard...or just have them come tell me how you beat them? I think maybe it could improve my tactics so i'd love to hear it.

Sightless
01-01-2008, 03:59 AM
<cite>Psych wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Psych wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>seahawk91 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>You forgot to mention which tier you are referring to. Cause all of the examples that you cited are either truth or complete fiction depending on which tier the class in question is fighting at.</blockquote><p>spot on.  the OP has some kind of grudge.  I love the fact that a sorcerer can just press 2 or 3 buttons and kill someone.  I lol'd in RL when I read that.  Everyone thinks manashield is some kind of godsend or something.  Anyone that dies, because manashield saved the sorcerer is a noob.  Period.  I have fought many a 1 v 1 and still lost with manashield.  All i can do is tip my hat to them, cause those peeps had some serious DPS.  The classes with average or below average dps, if you sit there with mana popped, then you deserve to die.</p><p> Anyway, I guess it's the OP opinion on titles, and fair enough.. I just find his/her remarks on sorcerers a bit laughable.  </p><p>happy new year all!</p></blockquote>whoa whoa whoa. Obviously its different at higher tiers but let me just say that the players who died because of manashield arent noobs.If you cant tear it off and you arent a dps god then odds are that wizzy/lock is winning.At higher levels there are a lot more ways to deal with it. But between 20-40 it can be a nightmare. I dare you to roll a paladin and beat a sorc using manashield before level 50. I doubt it has ever happend aside from freak green con mistakes where the sorcerer refused to do anything throughout the duration.</blockquote><p>Um, actually my wife and i play a pally wizard duo, and are currently 58.  We have fought in the arena to work our skills in pvp back in the 30's.  A pally CAN beat a wizard that pops manashield.  It takes skill on the pally's part, and the right AA spec, but it can absolutely be done, and thats without using the pumis stones.  DPSing through manashield is not the only way to beat it.  Post 50, we havent gone back becuase honestly im afraid she will really kick my wizards [I cannot control my vocabulary] now with the AA final's she has.  Maybe at 65 when i get fusion i will think about it.  Don't be so fast to discount a pally, they may not be a dps powerhouse, but thier staying power in a fight is only matched imo to a druids.</p></blockquote>Hrmm...well I know you did say you play a paladin/wizard duo but your avatar is the swashbuckler avatar and your signature is your swashys signature too.I am currently 26 or 27 on my paladin and I'd love to know what tactics you used to beat the wizard you beat who was using mana shield.I person on here said pallys have a load of knockback, well yeah my kick and my shield bash. They work great for interrupting players. But without stealth the odds of getting either of those off before I can be rooted as I approach the wizard are slim to none. I have 1 stun on my divine strike and another 2 stuns that arent directed. As in one is a aoe spell that can stun 20% of the time and the other is a 1.6 per minute proc. The 2 knockbacks are on a 10 second timer (kick line) and a shield bash on a 20 second timer.The divine strike with 2 second stun is on a 30 second timer.I also get a single target DD spell that interrupts on a 20 second timer. Interrupts arent huge but I use it when I see their hands leave their sides.Now given all this there is no way I can keep them from casting mana shield throughout the fight even if I were to get within melee range before they ever spotted me.So assuming my opponent casted mana shield please enlighten me as to what you did to defeat them. Cause myself its basically I charge they root. They burn through my ward and one third of my bar before I can get a single heal off. Wards back up, casting it. Stunned. Recasting it. Half health now. Lay of Hands. Root breaks. Charge them, lay in with knock backs and stun. Shred some of their bar for the first 10-15 seconds then I run out of interrupting gas and they mana shield.After that its over. They nuke a bit more inbetween my attakcks, finally get a second root, and its done.I'd love for you to tell me how you start a fight with a wizard and win after they use mana shield without Doom Judgement. (lvl 35 move) which I'm not sure (dont have it) but sounds as if it might be very useful against wizards and especially warlocks.The people saying to break line of sight with nearby terrain well maybe you can do that against wizards that dont know what line of sight is but on my coercer in 36 levels of PVP I found it easy to keep anyone in line of sight for plenty of time. The only times I did lose them was when they refused to engage and had a significant runspeed advantage after root broke and that was only when I had no pet and thus didnt have nearly enough DPS to kill them....mezzing and good stuns make a difference but a wizard can do much more damage during their root than my coercer can during his mezz since mez breaks on damage.Honestly, I dont know what a wizard is doing if they fight a paladin for 30 seconds straight and havnt pushed him far enough behind in the heal vs dps race that they have won.I cant wrap my head around it! So please if you could tell me how you beat your friend on their wizard...or just have them come tell me how you beat them? I think maybe it could improve my tactics so i'd love to hear it.</blockquote><p>I'll give you some advice Psych that will help you on all of your characters. </p><p>First, know the classes you're fighting, and their primary skills and how those tie into their roots. You can start carrying Arcane potions early, very early. Arcane potions remove roots from all cloth casters, and druids, and some snares. Now these are once in fifteen minutes, but they work wonders when you need them. As you level, you'll get access to other potions that make you IMMUNE to root for ten seconds.</p><p>As a Paladin you could train your tinkering. With tinkering you can get snares and roots which your class currently doesn't have. Among a lot of other clickables that are awesome, and do turn the tide of a PvP battle. As for getting your heals off before he burns you down, this is where your stuns come into play. Don't use all of your stuns at once. Instead when you need to heal, stun, and then you can heal while he is stunned. A Paladins strength is outlasting his enemy.</p>

Psych
01-01-2008, 05:16 AM
the problem isnt roots. I can survive them with healing myself or just plain resisting them. I get tons of resists and the resist rate needs fixed but I wont get into that.The problem isnt timing my heals/ward between stuns. I do this against other classes but against mages its usually unnecessary as their ability to interrupt me is awful at best. The problem also isnt them getting away. I know about troll snot flingers and I am training my tinkering. I'm also an alchemist and I do carry pots. I even use my miscalibrated gnomish crosstrainers every time I can to escape when I try to escape. Quest items, potions, tinkered items, I use every temporary advantage I can get most of the time.The problem is even if a wizard had no root whatsoever they could beat me easily only because of manashield. Its the only component that makes a difference in the equation. Its not them running as they have no runspeed buffs. Its not from them rooting me as I get a very long immunity timer after the first root breaks and healing the whole time while using my bow inbetween makes sure I dont really lose too badly while stationary especially if my procs land.Its manashield. I cant take an even con wizard for 30 seconds. Well...close to 45 as they dont pop the shield as soon as they see me, they wait until theyre near half life usually.Even with my heals, stuns, etc. I just cant handle wizard dps long enough to kill a wizard when factoring in that extra time from mana shield.2 on 1 though a wizard is probably the easiest fight I've ever had. Some classes arent much easier when you have just 1 person more to fight them but the wizard outside of 1 on 1 becomes terrible at my tier.I am not stupid, I outlast plenty of other players and I've read pally pvp faqs about outlasting being the goal.But I also play the game nearly every day and there is a reason you see far less paladins than wizards.Couple things I did so far I am proud of tho is I survived a crit HT for 1811 and once my perfectly aimed shield bash knocked an ogre off a cliffside and he fell to his death.

Sightless
01-01-2008, 09:17 AM
One of the easiest tic-tacs you can use is, Pumice Stones. If that doesn't freshen your breath you can root, or snare him with those snot flingers and move out of his range, AFTER he has triggered manashield.

Unis_Bertox
01-02-2008, 12:48 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite><a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:[email protected]" target="_blank">[email protected]</a> wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>EQ2 is a PvE game with a PvP feature. PvP will never be balanced, and some class will always be on top. Therefore...</p><p>Scouts- With the exception of Bards and in part Assassins, take 2 titles away. Therefore your Destroyer title is actaully a Hunter title. Maybe late Slayer. Your track gives you avoidance and the ability to stalk people. Your evac allows you to choose when to fight. And your run-speed gives you the chance to flee before or after they hit you. Bards, your titles are really a representative of your skill. I got Slayer on my Swashbuckler with my Apprentice 4 spells. I don't know many other classes that can do that. Scouts are the kings of PvP at the moment. You have no right to say "I pwned you" or "You suck" or call people scared when they deny your 1v1. You also don't have the right to say L2P.</p><p>Priests- Druids, come on now. You're almost the same boat as Scouts. You cannot say L2P, you cannot insult people for saying no to your 1v1's. Take 1 Title away. Wardens, I'm even tempted to tell you to take 2 titles away, but your DPS isn't as instant as a Furies or a Scouts. Only issue with you guys is you never run out of power and your heals are rediculous especially when you have AA to make them Critical. Clerics, you do play rough classes to master in PvP. Your heals take long to cast and you become victims to burst DPS...I think you are deserving of your title. Shamans, you guys rock at PvP if played well...but when not played well, you really find yourself in trouble. Defilers, you get way strong in some teirs....but I still have to give you the benefit of the doubt.</p><p>Mages- Sorcerers, go play a REAL mage class. Are you getting hit too hard? Pop a mana-shield. What do other mages do? Die. You need to kill someone fast enough? Fine, randomly click 2 or 3 of your spells. What do other mages do? We have to use all of our spells to whin sometimes. Take away....2 titles. You are not supposed to be able to nuke with spells as scouts do with their CA's. Sure, you have to cast...but what can Priests (Minus Druids) and other Mages to do? Fighters can't even stand up to your DPS. Enchanters, all about your skill. Plain and simple. Your title is well earned. A true indication of skill. Summoners, and I'm not just saying this because I am one, go ahead and add 1 title for effort and patience of playing this class. Even when played well you find yourself struggling to win many times. Your defense does not work correctly in PvP, you can hardly stand to a well played Mage, and you get dropped faster than any other class I've seen.</p><p>Fighters- Minus Brawlers who have scout-like DPS, your Title is well earned or in some cases in need of a +1. Brawlers, and you know it's true, you almost are impossible to hit, you have amazing DPS for a fighter, and you can almost easily beat Druids...I've seen it happen. I like the Brawler classes...but take 1/2 to 1 title away because of your sick DPS. Then again I may be wrong....I've only played a Monk in the Fighter category, I've never tried the other ones.</p><p>That's just how I see it. Not everyone has the same rights as other classes simply because there is no balance. So the community will do it for you and let you know when you have a Bogus title.</p></blockquote>So based on this logic a class such as a bard or cleric can leech fame all day off of higher levels and eventually get a title.  Since they aren't a "easymode" class they earned their title, right?My point?  Titles don't mean anything.  Having a high title doesn't exactly mean your skilled in your class.  You can autofollow a group of great players and get a high title just by being in the same group as them.  Pvp to fight, don't pvp to worry about a title.</blockquote><p>HOw often do you Die to Champions compared to no titles? Titles DO show skill on many occasions more than when they don't. I'd like you to rush on a General ANY class and see how close you get to winning.</p><p>"a class such as a bard or cleric can leech fame all day off of higher levels and eventually get a title.  Since they aren't a "easymode"</p><p>Erm, to that comment....What is leeching to you? Them grouping with other people? Well guess what, this is a group based game. If you earn your title in a group, you obviously contribute to them enough for them to invite you each time. I don't know one person that would let someone just sit there in their gorup wastign space for someone els ewho could do something.</p><p>"Having a high title doesn't exactly mean your skilled in your class."</p><p>Once again, the title shows skill more often than it doesn't. I'll put it like this....You see a Warlock specced for Mana-shield with a Destroyer title, and a Conjuror specced for Stoneskin also at Destroyer....now really, which do you think has put most effort for their title? I think the Conjuror did...Want another?</p><p>You see a Ranger with General, and you see a Mystic with General....who do you think worked harder? The Ranger or the Mystic.....I think the Mystic did.</p></blockquote>Please..dear god please stop. You're killing me here. Giggitty was dead on. The higher the title the quicker they are to run/evac when odds aren't heavily stacked in their favor. I started from scratch on Nagafen with my warden. When I reached 19 and fully RoK geared I got Slayer within a couple days just by grouping and killing smaller groups or loners and I'm not really that good. I got Destroyer and recently and lost it due to the same reason -- I got ganked by a full group while I was harvesting. All I have to do to get Destroyer back is get a full group and return the favor. Tell me how that equates a Title to Skill? I'm not denying it takes skill to play this game but don't for a second try to fool me that it directly relates to a title.Champions are the worst. I've seen so many champs in groups *RUN* when a few of their group mates go down. I've already lost count how many have evac'd or just run away on their [Removed for Content] horse when they aren't 8+ levels higher than someone in our group. At the lower levels when the twinked Champs and Destroyers were running around on their horses there was nothing I could do even when I was max level above them. Snare them and they still outrun you on horse, root them but once you hit them they are off running again. Was [Removed for Content] sad the crap I saw and that is when I was Hunter/Slayer and they didn't even have to worry about losing fame to me lol.

Gimet
01-02-2008, 10:16 PM
<cite>Unis_Bertox wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite><a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:[email protected]" target="_blank">[email protected]</a> wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>EQ2 is a PvE game with a PvP feature. PvP will never be balanced, and some class will always be on top. Therefore...</p><p>Scouts- With the exception of Bards and in part Assassins, take 2 titles away. Therefore your Destroyer title is actaully a Hunter title. Maybe late Slayer. Your track gives you avoidance and the ability to stalk people. Your evac allows you to choose when to fight. And your run-speed gives you the chance to flee before or after they hit you. Bards, your titles are really a representative of your skill. I got Slayer on my Swashbuckler with my Apprentice 4 spells. I don't know many other classes that can do that. Scouts are the kings of PvP at the moment. You have no right to say "I pwned you" or "You suck" or call people scared when they deny your 1v1. You also don't have the right to say L2P.</p><p>Priests- Druids, come on now. You're almost the same boat as Scouts. You cannot say L2P, you cannot insult people for saying no to your 1v1's. Take 1 Title away. Wardens, I'm even tempted to tell you to take 2 titles away, but your DPS isn't as instant as a Furies or a Scouts. Only issue with you guys is you never run out of power and your heals are rediculous especially when you have AA to make them Critical. Clerics, you do play rough classes to master in PvP. Your heals take long to cast and you become victims to burst DPS...I think you are deserving of your title. Shamans, you guys rock at PvP if played well...but when not played well, you really find yourself in trouble. Defilers, you get way strong in some teirs....but I still have to give you the benefit of the doubt.</p><p>Mages- Sorcerers, go play a REAL mage class. Are you getting hit too hard? Pop a mana-shield. What do other mages do? Die. You need to kill someone fast enough? Fine, randomly click 2 or 3 of your spells. What do other mages do? We have to use all of our spells to whin sometimes. Take away....2 titles. You are not supposed to be able to nuke with spells as scouts do with their CA's. Sure, you have to cast...but what can Priests (Minus Druids) and other Mages to do? Fighters can't even stand up to your DPS. Enchanters, all about your skill. Plain and simple. Your title is well earned. A true indication of skill. Summoners, and I'm not just saying this because I am one, go ahead and add 1 title for effort and patience of playing this class. Even when played well you find yourself struggling to win many times. Your defense does not work correctly in PvP, you can hardly stand to a well played Mage, and you get dropped faster than any other class I've seen.</p><p>Fighters- Minus Brawlers who have scout-like DPS, your Title is well earned or in some cases in need of a +1. Brawlers, and you know it's true, you almost are impossible to hit, you have amazing DPS for a fighter, and you can almost easily beat Druids...I've seen it happen. I like the Brawler classes...but take 1/2 to 1 title away because of your sick DPS. Then again I may be wrong....I've only played a Monk in the Fighter category, I've never tried the other ones.</p><p>That's just how I see it. Not everyone has the same rights as other classes simply because there is no balance. So the community will do it for you and let you know when you have a Bogus title.</p></blockquote>So based on this logic a class such as a bard or cleric can leech fame all day off of higher levels and eventually get a title.  Since they aren't a "easymode" class they earned their title, right?My point?  Titles don't mean anything.  Having a high title doesn't exactly mean your skilled in your class.  You can autofollow a group of great players and get a high title just by being in the same group as them.  Pvp to fight, don't pvp to worry about a title.</blockquote><p>HOw often do you Die to Champions compared to no titles? Titles DO show skill on many occasions more than when they don't. I'd like you to rush on a General ANY class and see how close you get to winning.</p><p>"a class such as a bard or cleric can leech fame all day off of higher levels and eventually get a title.  Since they aren't a "easymode"</p><p>Erm, to that comment....What is leeching to you? Them grouping with other people? Well guess what, this is a group based game. If you earn your title in a group, you obviously contribute to them enough for them to invite you each time. I don't know one person that would let someone just sit there in their gorup wastign space for someone els ewho could do something.</p><p>"Having a high title doesn't exactly mean your skilled in your class."</p><p><span style="font-size: xx-large;">Once again, the title shows skill more often than it doesn't.</span> I'll put it like this....You see a Warlock specced for Mana-shield with a Destroyer title, and a Conjuror specced for Stoneskin also at Destroyer....now really, which do you think has put most effort for their title? I think the Conjuror did...Want another?</p><p>You see a Ranger with General, and you see a Mystic with General....who do you think worked harder? The Ranger or the Mystic.....I think the Mystic did.</p></blockquote>Please..dear god please stop. You're killing me here. Giggitty was dead on. The higher the title the quicker they are to run/evac when odds aren't heavily stacked in their favor. I started from scratch on Nagafen with my warden. When I reached 19 and fully RoK geared I got Slayer within a couple days just by grouping and killing smaller groups or loners and I'm not really that good. I got Destroyer and recently and lost it due to the same reason -- I got ganked by a full group while I was harvesting. All I have to do to get Destroyer back is get a full group and return the favor. Tell me how that equates a Title to Skill? I'm not denying it takes skill to play this game but don't for a second try to fool me that it directly relates to a title.Champions are the worst. I've seen so many champs in groups *RUN* when a few of their group mates go down. I've already lost count how many have evac'd or just run away on their [I cannot control my vocabulary] horse when they aren't 8+ levels higher than someone in our group. At the lower levels when the twinked Champs and Destroyers were running around on their horses there was nothing I could do even when I was max level above them. Snare them and they still outrun you on horse, root them but once you hit them they are off running again. Was [Removed for Content] sad the crap I saw and that is when I was Hunter/Slayer and they didn't even have to worry about losing fame to me lol.</blockquote><p>Wait wait, so you'r etelling me you're no good and don't deserve your title because you've spent your time in gorups.</p><p>My god....</p><p>Am I the only one who believes this game to be GROUP BASED? Otherwise wouldn't everyone have everything so that they can solo just as easily?</p><p>And, I also believe you are as blind as him....I'll super bold it for you. Everything you and Giggity are saying is valid...but I stand by titles showing skill more often than they don't.</p>

Sightless
01-03-2008, 12:07 AM
<p>Enlocke</p><p>The day you get Dreadnaught or even Champion on a Guardian, or Necromancer, I'll agree titles shows the skill of the player. I'll be waiting.</p>

Notsovilepriest
01-03-2008, 01:05 AM
I got Champion on a Guardian, Do I win something?

Gimet
01-03-2008, 02:38 AM
<cite>Sightless wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Enlocke</p><p>The day you get Dreadnaught or even Champion on a Guardian, or Necromancer, I'll agree titles shows the skill of the player. I'll be waiting.</p></blockquote>Does getting close to Champion on a Conjuror count? None of my Conjuror friends can get anything highe rif even Champion. Because other classes are more able tha other...my point of this thread....titles are not good representation of many classes skil...yet I still believe that they do show skill. I want to you go face....10 Hunters and 10...I don't know...Dreads. YOu tell me which one was easier to do.

Arcanias
01-03-2008, 02:44 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>I got Champion on a Guardian, Do I win something?</blockquote>You get a spam /sit from me.

Sightless
01-03-2008, 02:52 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sightless wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Enlocke</p><p>The day you get Dreadnaught or even Champion on a Guardian, or Necromancer, I'll agree titles shows the skill of the player. I'll be waiting.</p></blockquote>Does getting close to Champion on a Conjuror count? None of my Conjuror friends can get anything highe rif even Champion. Because other classes are more able tha other...my point of this thread....titles are not good representation of many classes skil...yet I still believe that they do show skill. I want to you go face....10 Hunters and 10...I don't know...Dreads. YOu tell me which one was easier to do.</blockquote><p>If you did it in T7 or now T8, then yes, it would. But Conjurors are very powerful T2-T5 so that wouldn't count. I know several who achieved Champion prior to T6, and lost it, never to get it back T6-T7.</p><p>I've killed my share of Dreadnaughts and been Dreadnaught myself. The only thing a Dreadnaught did, the Hunters didn't, was run and get away better. I rarely saw any Dreadnaughts who didn't run with groups, hang out at zone lines, cloud platforms, or carpets.</p>

Unis_Bertox
01-03-2008, 06:07 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Unis_Bertox wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite><a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:[email protected]" target="_blank">[email protected]</a> wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>EQ2 is a PvE game with a PvP feature. PvP will never be balanced, and some class will always be on top. Therefore...</p><p>Scouts- With the exception of Bards and in part Assassins, take 2 titles away. Therefore your Destroyer title is actaully a Hunter title. Maybe late Slayer. Your track gives you avoidance and the ability to stalk people. Your evac allows you to choose when to fight. And your run-speed gives you the chance to flee before or after they hit you. Bards, your titles are really a representative of your skill. I got Slayer on my Swashbuckler with my Apprentice 4 spells. I don't know many other classes that can do that. Scouts are the kings take skill to keep your title of PvP at the moment. You have no right to say "I pwned you" or "You suck" or call people scared when they deny your 1v1. You also don't have the right to say L2P.</p><p>Priests- Druids, come on now. You're almost the same boat as Scouts. You cannot say L2P, you cannot insult people for saying no to your 1v1's. Take 1 Title away. Wardens, I'm even tempted to tell you to take 2 titles away, but your DPS isn't as instant as a Furies or a Scouts. Only issue with you guys is you never run out of power and your heals are rediculous especially when you have AA to make them Critical. Clerics, you do play rough classes to master in PvP. Your heals take long to cast and you become victims to burst DPS...I think you are deserving of your title. Shamans, you guys rock at PvP if played well...but when not played well, you really find yourself in trouble. Defilers, you get way strong in some teirs....but I still have to give you the benefit of the doubt.</p><p>Mages- Sorcerers, go play a REAL mage class. Are you getting hit too hard? Pop a mana-shield. What do other mages do? Die. You need to kill someone fast enough? Fine, randomly click 2 or 3 of your spells. What do other mages do? We have to use all of our spells to whin sometimes. Take away....2 titles. You are not supposed to be able to nuke with spells as scouts do with their CA's. Sure, you have to cast...but what can Priests (Minus Druids) and other Mages to do? Fighters can't even stand up to your DPS. Enchanters, all about your skill. Plain and simple. Your title is well earned. A true indication of skill. Summoners, and I'm not just saying this because I am one, go ahead and add 1 title for effort and patience of playing this class. Even when played well you find yourself struggling to win many times. Your defense does not work correctly in PvP, you can hardly stand to a well played Mage, and you get dropped faster than any other class I've seen.</p><p>Fighters- Minus Brawlers who have scout-like DPS, your Title is well earned or in some cases in need of a +1. Brawlers, and you know it's true, you almost are impossible to hit, you have amazing DPS for a fighter, and you can almost easily beat Druids...I've seen it happen. I like the Brawler classes...but take 1/2 to 1 title away because of your sick DPS. Then again I may be wrong....I've only played a Monk in the Fighter category, I've never tried the other ones.</p><p>That's just how I see it. Not everyone has the same rights as other classes simply because there is no balance. So the community will do it for you and let you know when you have a Bogus title.</p></blockquote>So based on this logic a class such as a bard or cleric can leech fame all day off of higher levels and eventually get a title.  Since they aren't a "easymode" class they earned their title, right?My point?  Titles don't mean anything.  Having a high title doesn't exactly mean your skilled in your class.  You can autofollow a group of great players and get a high title just by being in the same group as them.  Pvp to fight, don't pvp to worry about a title.</blockquote><p>HOw often do you Die to Champions compared to no titles? Titles DO show skill on many occasions more than when they don't. I'd like you to rush on a General ANY class and see how close you get to winning.</p><p>"a class such as a bard or cleric can leech fame all day off of higher levels and eventually get a title.  Since they aren't a "easymode"</p><p>Erm, to that comment....What is leeching to you? Them grouping with other people? Well guess what, this is a group based game. If you earn your title in a group, you obviously contribute to them enough for them to invite you each time. I don't know one person that would let someone just sit there in their gorup wastign space for someone els ewho could do something.</p><p>"Having a high title doesn't exactly mean your skilled in your class."</p><p><span style="font-size: xx-large;">Once again, the title shows skill more often than it doesn't.</span> I'll put it like this....You see a Warlock specced for Mana-shield with a Destroyer title, and a Conjuror specced for Stoneskin also at Destroyer....now really, which do you think has put most effort for their title? I think the Conjuror did...Want another?</p><p>You see a Ranger with General, and you see a Mystic with General....who do you think worked harder? The Ranger or the Mystic.....I think the Mystic did.</p></blockquote>Please..dear god please stop. You're killing me here. Giggitty was dead on. The higher the title the quicker they are to run/evac when odds aren't heavily stacked in their favor. I started from scratch on Nagafen with my warden. When I reached 19 and fully RoK geared I got Slayer within a couple days just by grouping and killing smaller groups or loners and I'm not really that good. I got Destroyer and recently and lost it due to the same reason -- I got ganked by a full group while I was harvesting. All I have to do to get Destroyer back is get a full group and return the favor. Tell me how that equates a Title to Skill? I'm not denying it takes skill to play this game but don't for a second try to fool me that it directly relates to a title.Champions are the worst. I've seen so many champs in groups *RUN* when a few of their group mates go down. I've already lost count how many have evac'd or just run away on their [I cannot control my vocabulary] horse when they aren't 8+ levels higher than someone in our group. At the lower levels when the twinked Champs and Destroyers were running around on their horses there was nothing I could do even when I was max level above them. Snare them and they still outrun you on horse, root them but once you hit them they are off running again. Was [Removed for Content] sad the crap I saw and that is when I was Hunter/Slayer and they didn't even have to worry about losing fame to me lol.</blockquote><p>Wait wait, so you'r etelling me you're no good and don't deserve your title because you've spent your time in gorups.</p><p>My god....</p><p>Am I the only one who believes this game to be GROUP BASED? Otherwise wouldn't everyone have everything so that they can solo just as easily?</p><p>And, I also believe you are as blind as him....I'll super bold it for you. Everything you and Giggity are saying is valid...but I stand by titles showing skill more often than they don't.</p></blockquote><p>Let me spell this out for you in simpler terms. All I had to do to get Destoyer was run around with a full group and demolish loners and smaller groups of 1-3. Tell me how that that title equates to skill? </p><p>To keep that title all you have to do is run/evac when the odds are not in your favor. Tell me again how does that title equate to skill?</p><p>I'll say this again in bold <b>The higher the title the faster they run/evac when the odds are not heavily in their favor</b>. Where is the skill in that please? Stop kidding yourself. I've seen this happen so much it's hilarous and you can't convince me otherwise.</p>

Vydar
01-03-2008, 08:13 AM
Remove titles plz.  Remove perma immunity.Remove in combat evac's. Remove in combat run speed buffs, once engaged.  Once engaged, everyone should run at 0% unless burning power on sprint.  Allow other factions into Haven, maintain city PvP rules.Give all three factions all 24 classes.Give exiles access to PvP gear. 

Swifthand
01-03-2008, 08:54 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Remove titles plz.  </p><p><b><span style="font-size: small;">This would be a bad idea</span></b>Remove perma immunity.</p><p><b><span style="font-size: small;">I dont agree with this either. Perma immunity after death prevents those who like to camp rez spots. It needs to be left in game.</span></b>Remove in combat evac's. </p><p><b><span style="font-size: small;">I agree with this one. In combat evac's is just plain ridiculous.</span></b>Remove in combat run speed buffs, once engaged.  Once engaged, everyone should run at 0% unless burning power on sprint.  </p><p><b><span style="font-size: small;">Your joking right? </span></b>Allow other factions into Haven, maintain city PvP rules.</p><p><b><span style="font-size: small;">This sounds like a good idea to me.</span></b>Give all three factions all 24 classes.</p><p><b><span style="font-size: medium;">YES YES YES YES!!!! I AGREE!!! EVERY FACTION SHOULD BE ABLE TO HAVE ACCESS TO ALL 24 CLASSES! THIS NEEDS TO BE IMPLEMENTED IMMEDIATELY.</span></b>Give exiles access to PvP gear.  </p></blockquote>

Vydar
01-03-2008, 09:03 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Remove titles plz.  </p><p><b><span style="font-size: small;">This would be a bad idea</span></b></p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><i>Not at all imo tbh.  They don't show skill, they give incentive to NOT fight rather than fight, and to run rather than stay.  If everyone had access to all 24 classes AND pvp gear, the incentive would be... the joy of fighting, and PvP gear writs.</i></span></p><p>Remove perma immunity.</p><p><b><span style="font-size: small;">I dont agree with this either. Perma immunity after death prevents those who like to camp rez spots. It needs to be left in game.</span></b></p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><i>After death maybe.  Maybe.  Sitting at a zone entrance waiting for evac to come back up before going back out to quest is lame.  And if you made it so its only after death, people would kill themselves on purpose.  No one camps rez spots if the person is already on their recent.  </i></span></p><p><i>A</i>Remove in combat evac's. </p><p><b><span style="font-size: small;">I agree with this one. In combat evac's is just plain ridiculous.</span></b>Remove in combat run speed buffs, once engaged.  Once engaged, everyone should run at 0% unless burning power on sprint.  </p><p><b><span style="font-size: small;">Your joking right?</span></b></p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><i>Why no, no I'm not.  Why are people allowed to run at 60% run speed once they've engaged in PvP?  Kerrans, Arasai, Fae... they can attack you, decide you are winning, run away at 60% run speed.  I'm not saying that once I hit someone else they should be at 0%, but as soon as they hit me back, they [Removed for Content] well should be.</i></span></p><p>Allow other factions into Haven, maintain city PvP rules.</p><p><b><span style="font-size: small;">This sounds like a good idea to me.</span></b>Give all three factions all 24 classes.</p><p><b><span style="font-size: medium;">YES YES YES YES!!!! I AGREE!!! EVERY FACTION SHOULD BE ABLE TO HAVE ACCESS TO ALL 24 CLASSES! THIS NEEDS TO BE IMPLEMENTED IMMEDIATELY.</span></b></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><i>Agreed for several important reasons.  One, factions could compete better when it comes to raiding.  Two, factions would no longer have an EXCUSE as to why they can't complete content.  Three, allowing people to make more choices is a good thing.  If you would like to try playing an Illusionist, but still want to play with your Freeport guild, you do not have that fun option.  More options= more customizability= more fun for more people.</i></span></p><p>Give exiles access to PvP gear.  </p><p><i>This is the only way it would be fair to give all factions all 24 classes.  If you do not do this, the exiles who did exile specifically for raiding are now [Removed for Content]...</i></p></blockquote></blockquote>

Drao
01-03-2008, 01:15 PM
I am  an 80 conjy and was dred for a day.. all solo There are a few good cojys on venekor that could teach you a thing or 2 about playing the class. Ive learned its best not to fight this nerf scouts fight. They are what they are prepare yourself to fight them to the best of your ability and when you lose, learn from it. I know its tough but us conjys if played well can beat scouts.

Raidyen
01-03-2008, 01:34 PM
<p>Personally, i will never group with a Dread title or higher for pvp reasons.  Im sure there are some really good players out there that are dreads and general's, but 4 of my 67 deaths (yes i track my deaths) came from pick up group pvp, where the dread/general left the fight before it was over.  So this point on, i just don't group with them.</p>

Bloodfa
01-03-2008, 03:49 PM
FYI, Kerra <b><u>cannot</u></b> hit Feral Rage after engaging PvP.  Same with Fae speed; it greys out just like the Evac button does once you are in combat.

Bozidar
01-03-2008, 04:03 PM
<p>When are folks going to wake up and realize that 99% of fame is a game in and of itself.  Knowing where to hunt, pulling dirty tricks on people, run run as fast as you can, evac till your fingers bleed, ambush people and chase them for fame around 20 zones.. </p><p>it's a skillset completely seperate from the rest of the game.</p><p>I've seen high titles on all classes and the underscoring theme here is you're either a fame [Removed for Content], or you're not.  If you are one, chances are that you'll get fame.  If you're not one.. then you won't.</p>

Sightless
01-03-2008, 05:08 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Personally, i will never group with a Dread title or higher for pvp reasons.  Im sure there are some really good players out there that are dreads and general's, but 4 of my 67 deaths (yes i track my deaths) came from pick up group pvp, where the dread/general left the fight before it was over.  So this point on, i just don't group with them.</p></blockquote><p>A large portion of his deaths is following me in, to attack full groups. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>I've been Dreadnaught five times now. I've fought many Dreadnaughts and Champions to get it, and the Champions stand to fight before the Dreadnaughts do. In fact I know a lot of Dreadnaughts who'll evac, carpet, or cloud away the second they are suprised.</p>

Swifthand
01-05-2008, 05:34 AM
<p>Message from Vydar </p><p>Your joking right?Why no, no I'm not. Why are people allowed to run at 60% run speed once they've engaged in PvP? Kerrans, Arasai, Fae... they can attack you, decide you are winning, run away at 60% run speed. I'm not saying that once I hit someone else they should be at 0%, but as soon as they hit me back, they [I cannot control my vocabulary] well should be.</p><p>Ok, honestly i think I'm gonna change my answer on this one, lol. Yesterday I was jumped by a inqi in SF while on a horse. We had a nice little battle, and eventually I hit him with consecutive SOT and Starfire, along with dotting him. His life was in red, so he decides to run. He somehow got away with no life left on the meter. I mean, he must have been at 60% run speed to my 25%. </p><p>Now, here's what I propose. If your opponents Life is in orange and red, he/she will recieve a heavy movement penalty  of say 50% in orange, and 100% in red, and LOSE all speed enhancements, therefore running will NEVER be an option again. Its ridiculous to see someone who clearly lost the fight survive a death just because they have a movement speed of 60% due to their horse, pots, ability, etc.  So, I agree with you on this one as well <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Warr
01-05-2008, 06:23 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Why no, no I'm not. Why are people allowed to run at 60% run speed once they've engaged in PvP? Kerrans, Arasai, Fae... they can attack you, decide you are winning, run away at 60% run speed. I'm not saying that once I hit someone else they should be at 0%, but as soon as they hit me back, they [I cannot control my vocabulary] well should be.</p></blockquote>Last I tried it, those spells actually put me INTO pvp combat while trying to get away. Just like cheetah does for furies now. Evac was disabled in pvp, so was cheetah,  yet you can still evac if you're being attacked, but cheetah and those racial spells lock you in combat.

Zacarus
01-06-2008, 02:31 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Message from Vydar </p><p>Your joking right?Why no, no I'm not. Why are people allowed to run at 60% run speed once they've engaged in PvP? Kerrans, Arasai, Fae... they can attack you, decide you are winning, run away at 60% run speed. I'm not saying that once I hit someone else they should be at 0%, but as soon as they hit me back, they [I cannot control my vocabulary] well should be.</p><p>Ok, honestly i think I'm gonna change my answer on this one, lol. Yesterday I was jumped by a inqi in SF while on a horse. We had a nice little battle, and eventually I hit him with consecutive SOT and Starfire, along with dotting him. His life was in red, so he decides to run. He somehow got away with no life left on the meter. I mean, he must have been at 60% run speed to my 25%. </p><p>Now, here's what I propose. If your opponents Life is in orange and red, he/she will recieve a heavy movement penalty  of say 50% in orange, and 100% in red, and LOSE all speed enhancements, therefore running will NEVER be an option again. Its ridiculous to see someone who clearly lost the fight survive a death just because they have a movement speed of 60% due to their horse, pots, ability, etc.  So, I agree with you on this one as well <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /></p></blockquote>>> they can attack you, decide you are winning, run away at 60% run speed.No they can't.  Stop playing on a 386.