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View Full Version : Really, what can a scout do?


Sightless
12-27-2007, 08:31 AM
<p>I figured after the nerf Ranger assault it would go Brigand, Swashbuckler, and finally back to the Assassin. I never dreamed it would be a nerf assault on all stealth classes at once. Here we have Remove Evac threads, Remove Track threads, and in a buff Necromancer thread someone had to throw in remove potions that cure, or make you immune to snare, root, stun, or fear.</p><p>My lord, what's next for stealthers after that? Remove stealth? Remove Evade, or other Detaunts, because they clear your target and you can't be bothered to retarget? At the rate you guys are going, they might as well remove Rogues, and Predators, all together from the PvP servers. I'd pay real money at this point in time to have my Ranger be changed into an equal level Beserker or Guardian. I just don't get it. </p><p>I've rolled a Guardian and found him to be more powerful than other Rogues. The only problem I had on my Guardian was the inability to stop runners. I've played a Monk, and also found him to be much more powerful than Rogues. Currently I'm playing a Warlock, and can't believe how powerful this class is, and it keeps getting more powerful each tier. Already at 54 I'm not afraid of reds within 10-12 levels of me. Not to mention the Warden, Defiler, and other classes I've messed with, none of them ever felt weak to a Rogue, none of them. All I had to do was pay a bit more attention to my surroundings.</p><p>If you guys would learn to interrupt a rogue before he/she gets to you, you're already at an advantage on them. You just have to be more attentive. I'm not saying the Stealthers are not powerful classes, they are. But you can limit their power. And the other classes in the game with an exception to a few are equally as powerful, or more powerful than a Stealther.</p><p>The game isn't supposed to be easy, it's supposed to be challenging.</p>

-Arctura-
12-27-2007, 09:00 AM
(( good post. I agree, next is the 'Remove Scouts' thread. A serious one. Very serious.*rollseyes*

Norrsken
12-27-2007, 09:27 AM
<p>I agree. I dont feel the scouts are much out of balance. I can kill them just fine on most of my toons, and they can kill me on most of my toons. (Well, my necro cant really kill scouts unless I get the jump, and that means the scout didnt do a very good job).Granted, Idont haveany t8 toons yet, but thats because ofme getting a job. [Removed for Content] this work thing. Eating up my playtime! Rawr! <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p><p>Nah, scouts need smaller adjustments if any, and evac doesnt have to go. NEither does track. If anything, make track available as tinkered items, or pvp items from the faction guys in town, handcrafted crap or whatever and that particluar balance issue is gone.</p>

Sightless
12-27-2007, 09:29 AM
I'd like to see stealth and invisibility mean something. As it is both abilities are worthless.

Spyderbite
12-27-2007, 10:30 AM
<cite>Sightless wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>My lord, what's next for stealthers after that? Remove stealth?</p></blockquote>That was already done a long time ago. Anybody that can't see stealth needs to spend 20 copper on a totem and clean up their inventory so they have room to equip it. Stealth is just another fluff form like snow men these days. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Hinosh
12-27-2007, 12:15 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sightless wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>My lord, what's next for stealthers after that? Remove stealth?</p></blockquote>That was already done a long time ago. Anybody that can't see stealth needs to spend 20 copper on a totem and clean up their inventory so they have room to equip it. Stealth is just another fluff form like snow men these days. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote><p>Those Totems only last fifteen minutes per use and five uses per Totem, so, unless you have all your inventory slots filled with those, you'd only be out for an hour and fifteen minutes at a time before you have to head back and get another one. And don't forget that certain spells can only be cast while in Stealth.</p><p>I think the only problem with scouts is their Stealth. With Stealth, a rogue can get 5 seconds of CA's in before the prey attacks back. A Ranger can have alot more if they play their class right. IMO, if someone were to let a Guardian (actually a powerful class but in this case let's say they're bad) beat on them for as long as they do a Ranger, they'd go down as though a Ranger were killing them. This is just a wild guess, and I know someone's going to prove me wrong, but it does make some sense. A rogue wouldn't do as much damage if you see them coming before they start the fight and react almost the instant they engage.</p><p>EDIT: What's all this "" width="15" height="15">" mess?!</p>

BWLeeEllison
12-27-2007, 12:33 PM
<cite>Hinosh wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sightless wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>My lord, what's next for stealthers after that? Remove stealth?</p></blockquote>That was already done a long time ago. Anybody that can't see stealth needs to spend 20 copper on a totem and clean up their inventory so they have room to equip it. Stealth is just another fluff form like snow men these days. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote><p>Those Totems only last fifteen minutes per use and five uses per Totem, so, unless you have all your inventory slots filled with those, you'd only be out for an hour and fifteen minutes at a time before you have to head back and get another one. And don't forget that certain spells can only be cast while in Stealth.</p><p>I think the only problem with scouts is their Stealth. With Stealth, a rogue can get 5 seconds of CA's in before the prey attacks back. A Ranger can have alot more if they play their class right. IMO, if someone were to let a Guardian (actually a powerful class but in this case let's say they're bad) beat on them for as long as they do a Ranger, they'd go down as though a Ranger were killing them. This is just a wild guess, and I know someone's going to prove me wrong, but it does make some sense. A rogue wouldn't do as much damage if you see them coming before they start the fight and react almost the instant they engage.</p><p>EDIT: What's all this "" width="15" height="15">" mess?!</p></blockquote><p>Four hours of see stealth is worth 4 freakin slots in your inventory.  If you are running around with nothing but 4 slot bags, I can see where this would be a huge issue for your cheapness.  I can always muster 4 slots on any one of my toons at any given time, though I seldom play any one of them other than my main for more than an hour at a time.</p><p>Rangers are supposed to fight like that.  Rangers are wizards with a bow.  Wizards can invis (something most scouts can not see on track unless they use see invis totems), sneak up on anyone, and do to them what a ranger does, but with their nukes.  A wizard however must be stationary to drop their bombs.  Guess what, rangers have to stand still for a lot of their major attacks as well.  Its called drawing a bead, guaging windspeed, trajectory, w/e.  As a scout, I am pretty much helpless against a wizzie that gets the drop on me because I am a cheap [Removed for Content] who won't spend good cash money on see invis totems.  I take my chances.</p><p>I also play several robes myself.  Conjurer, illusionist, and warlock.  All my conjie has to do when faced with just about any class, even, yellow, w/e is run them around, if they are stupid enough to let themselves be kited like that, and let my pet do his job.  With my illie, run and mez, then turn and drain all their power or get away if I don't think I can take em.  Warlock?  Please.  The only scout classes that give me any grief on my 'lock are rangers and assassins but that is because they seldom close in to melee range until the deed is almost done.</p><p>What we are REALLY lookin at here is a bunch of people who, while they may know how to play their classes, do not apparently know how to play them as well as others know how to play theirs.  Get a grip and stop crying for nerfage.</p><p>Incidentally I do have a proposal up on this very board for making invis/stealth, and detection of invis/stealth have some meaning.</p>

Bloodfa
12-27-2007, 12:35 PM
Totems don't take up squat for space.  1 slot per hour & a quarter.  It's not a question of "Ooooh, are they going to see me" so much as "Ooooh, are they going to root & nuke me instead of the other group members?"  Here's an idea ... make it so that Manashield & Rift can't be run concurrently.  Oh, wait, that would be a Wizard/Warlock nerf ... can't have that setting some sort of precedent. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />  How about boosting up the Summoners and Charmers (assuming they fix the Coercer ZOMGWTFWUZZAT?!?!?! thing, that is).  Somebody please smack the next damage caster or healer that cries "foul".

BWLeeEllison
12-27-2007, 12:38 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>Totems don't take up squat for space.  1 slot per hour & a quarter.  It's not a question of "Ooooh, are they going to see me" so much as "Ooooh, are they going to root & nuke me instead of the other group members?"  Here's an idea ... make it so that Manashield & Rift can't be run concurrently.  Oh, wait, that would be a Wizard/Warlock nerf ... can't have that setting some sort of precedent. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />  How about boosting up the Summoners and Charmers (assuming they fix the Coercer ZOMGWTFWUZZAT?!?!?! thing, that is)</blockquote>LOL'd tbh.

Rudwick
12-27-2007, 02:28 PM
Ahh come on now and quit exaggerating. You need a different analogy because no warlock in his right mind is going to cast manashield in group pvp unless he is just dumb and secondly no solo warlock is going to cast the slow casting rift or upheaval in solo pvp anyway.

Enduro3
12-27-2007, 03:00 PM
A scout can auto attack someone for 1k, without crits at 80, Rogues mainly.  How is that fair to a mystic, or any class matter of fact where you can just kill them in 5 secs. where the single target ward is around 2000 points of damage, and casting is 2 secs. No way i can just out heal or dps you.  Don't forget all the + double attack gear and + melee crit.   And then when a class does jump a rogue, they just evac, and come back to you when fighting a mob, using there track.  I see either buff the other classes up to counter them, or how everyone says just group, make it so scouts need to be grouped for track to work.

KannaWhoopass
12-27-2007, 03:09 PM
<p><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Wow this is comedy </span></p><p><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">WHAT CANT A SCOUT DO would be a better topic .. </span></p><p><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">well lets see what ascout can do </span></p><p><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">1)Track a target forever with an x on the map telling him whee they are. </span></p><p><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">2)Evac on the run which cant be stopped every 15 min </span></p><p><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">3)Massive DPS burst which can drop 75% of classes in less than 8 seconds. </span></p><p><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">4)Large upfront poison damage</span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">5)Damage over time6)Power tap7)Health tap<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" />STR, ranged, slashing, crushing, piercing debuff9)resist debuff10)INT, ministration, subjugation, ordination, disruption debuff11)AGI, parry, deflection, defense debuff12)Attack speed debuff13Movement speed debuff (snare)14)Threat reduction15)stuns target</span></p><p><span style="font-family: Arial;">With the new RoK expansion and the new weapons .. and many of the scouts i know now haviong 40% crit chance , + 20% ranged crit</span></p><p><span style="font-family: Arial;">and increased chance to double attack . The Dps has gone off the charts .. gie them the sword from CoA .. or similar .. </span></p><p><span style="font-family: Arial;">several scouts i see have slightly less hitpoints than plate tanks. </span></p><p><span style="font-family: Arial;">their mitigation is great , with good avoidance. </span></p><p><span style="font-family: Arial;">In fact is it possible for the scouts here to tell me exactly where scouts are weak.</span></p><p><span style="font-family: Arial;">Baring the normal way out responces like "Well I can cast rift" answers .. where are scouts second fiddle to another class?</span></p><p><span style="font-family: Arial;">Finding prey #1  </span></p><p><span style="font-family: Arial;">Escaping #1</span></p><p><span style="font-family: Arial;">speed #1</span></p><p><span style="font-family: Arial;">safe fall #1 </span></p><p><span style="font-family: Arial;">defence # 2</span></p><p><span style="font-family: Arial;">dps #1 - #2 situational </span></p><p><span style="font-family: Arial;">debuffing #3 average. </span></p><p><span style="font-family: Arial;">buffing -- well here you may rank lower , dirges and troubs are the red headed step children and dont apply to alot of the complaints ... ranger assasin swash brig .. low buffs. but i would tend to say average ,, not below average. </span></p><p><span style="font-family: Arial;">Scout excell at everything in the game !!! </span></p><p><span style="font-family: Arial;">So you asked what can a scout DO .. it was effortless to make a list .. becasue its obvious what a scout can do if you have played this game for more that 6 months</span></p><p>You see a strategy game always involves trying to push your advantage , and expose anothers weakness. The fact is scouts have no weakness to expose, any point you call weak on a  scout is shared by most other classes .. and the evac threads are here in such abundance becasue in that rare moment where thru luck .. or skill you catch a scout flat footed .. Poof gone. </p><p>Myself i dont have a huge evac problem .. id like to see it match the wizard evac ona 30 min timer .. </p><p>My beef is more with the GPS and over the top DPS that is standatd in t8 at the moment. </p>

Raidyen
12-27-2007, 04:43 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Wow this is comedy </span></p><p><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">WHAT CANT A SCOUT DO would be a better topic .. </span></p><p><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">well lets see what ascout can do </span></p><p><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">1)Track a target forever with an x on the map telling him whee they are. </span></p><p><span style="color: #0000ff;font-family: Arial;"><b>Track is great for finding fights or avoiding them, but it does little once the fight starts.</b></span></p><p><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">2)Evac on the run which cant be stopped every 15 min </span></p><p><span style="color: #0000ff;font-family: Arial;"><b>So?  All healers get 2 instant cast uninterruptable heals every 15 mintes.  we going to remove those to?  At least your not dieing when a scout evac's, your just not getting to kill them.</b></span></p><p><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">3)Massive DPS burst which can drop 75% of classes in less than 8 seconds. </span></p><p><span style="color: #0000ff;font-family: Arial;"><b>Um, scouts are whats called a DPS class.  We dont heal, tank, nuke large area's from orbit, buff, etc/  DPS is our freakin job.  and 8 seconds is a ton of time in a pvp fight.  Go ahead and toke out our DPS, but then you need to remove tanks, healers, buffers, and nukers as well.</b></span></p><p><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">4)Large upfront poison damage</span></p><p><span style="color: #0000ff;font-family: Arial;"><b>Noxious Remedies are your friend, and that posion damage isnt large.  We can get lucky and get a couple of procs early, but thats no different then any other class with proc effects.</b></span></p><span><p><span style="font-family: Arial;">5)Damage over time</span></p><p><span style="color: #0000ff;font-family: Arial;"><b>What?  if a fight goes longer then 8 to 10 seconds, we are toast.  As a swashy i dont have a single DoT.  If your refering to our ability to cast our CA's and Auto attack, um, every class can do that.</b></span></p><span style="font-family: Arial;"><p>6)Power tap</p><p><b><span style="color: #0000ff;">Can do that but we no longer get that massive up front posion damage</span></b></p><p>7)Health tap</p><p><b><span style="color: #0000ff;">Same as above</span></b></p><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15">STR, ranged, slashing, crushing, piercing debuff</p><p>9)resist debuff</p><p>10)INT, ministration, subjugation, ordination, disruption debuff</p><p>11)AGI, parry, deflection, defense debuff12)Attack speed debuff13Movement speed debuff (snare)</p><p><b><span style="color: #0000ff;">Yep swashies can debuff.  But does it really matter if we are killing you in 8 seconds anyway?  What good is a debuff if you never have a chance to fight back.  Oh btw, cures are you friend.</span></b></p><p>14)Threat reduction</p><p><b><span style="color: #0000ff;">Yay now thats a cool ability.  (oh crap, a useful ability, i can already see the nef evasion threads starting)</span></b></p><p>15)stuns target</p><p><b><span style="color: #0000ff;">Easiest ability in the game to gain immunity from.  AA lines, potions, gear.  Find it use it.  Coarse that might take some effort on your part, and we wouldnt want that.</span></b></p></span></span><p><span style="font-family: Arial;">With the new RoK expansion and the new weapons .. and many of the scouts i know now haviong 40% crit chance , + 20% ranged crit</span> <span style="font-family: Arial;">and increased chance to double attack . The Dps has gone off the charts .. gie them the sword from CoA .. or similar .. </span></p><p><span style="color: #0000ff;font-family: Arial;"><b>Are you seriously saying that scouts are the only class in the game that got good gear in T8?  You mean NOBODY else got anything with spell crit chance, heal crit chance, spell procs, heal procs, casting speed increases, CA damage, Etc?  wow thats amazing.  Somebody should /feedback that scouts are the only class that got any gear in T8.</b></span></p><p><span style="font-family: Arial;">several scouts i see have slightly less hitpoints than plate tanks. </span></p><p><span style="color: #0000ff;font-family: Arial;"><b>Horribly gear'd plate tank then.  Thats not my fault.</b></span></p><p><span style="font-family: Arial;">their mitigation is great , with good avoidance.</span></p><p><span style="color: #0000ff;font-family: Arial;"><b>Average, and average.  Great mit would be a plate tank or healer.  Good avoidance would be a monk or brusier in leather.</b></span></p><p><span style="font-family: Arial;">In fact is it possible for the scouts here to tell me exactly where scouts are weak.</span></p><p><span style="color: #0000ff;font-family: Arial;"><b>Again, im not going to tell you how to beat me.  But i have lost, 65 times to be exact.  Of those i would say over half where because i was out played.</b></span></p><p><span style="font-family: Arial;">Baring the normal way out responces like "Well I can cast rift" answers .. where are scouts second fiddle to another class?</span></p><p><span style="font-family: Arial;">Finding prey #1  </span></p><p><span style="color: #0000ff;font-family: Arial;"><b>Yep we are the best, somebody has to be the best.</b></span></p><p><span style="font-family: Arial;">Escaping #1</span></p><p><span style="color: #0000ff;font-family: Arial;"><b>Only Prelocking. and so what.  So a scout gets away, how is that exactly hurting you other then not getting the easy kill?</b></span></p><p><span style="font-family: Arial;">speed #1</span></p><p><span style="color: #0000ff;font-family: Arial;"><b>LoL um no.  Fury's get 100 percent speed all the time WITHOUT cheetah.  Rangers would be a distant second, swash/brig shouldnt even be on that list.  We get a 16 percent speed buff.  Gee, thanks.</b></span></p><p><span style="font-family: Arial;">safe fall #1 </span></p><p><span style="color: #0000ff;font-family: Arial;"><b>Most race's now have safe fall abilities.  And yeah, i use that to kill people all the time.  If your dumb enough to jump off a cliff, im sorry i can't help you.</b></span></p><p><span style="font-family: Arial;">defence # 2</span></p><p><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="color: #0000ff;"><b>Are you kidding me?  Manashield, heals, plate tank abilities have far more defensive abilities then a scout ever had.</b> </span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: Arial;">dps #1 - #2 situational </span></p><p><span style="color: #0000ff;font-family: Arial;"><b>In a perfect situation, we can be #1 DPS.  But it has to be perfect.  Otherwise we are out done by Sorcerers.</b></span></p><p><span style="font-family: Arial;">debuffing #3 average. </span></p><p><span style="color: #0000ff;font-family: Arial;"><b>Sure i can live with that.</b></span></p><p><span style="font-family: Arial;">buffing -- well here you may rank lower , dirges and troubs are the red headed step children and dont apply to alot of the complaints ... ranger assasin swash brig .. low buffs. but i would tend to say average ,, not below average.</span></p><p><span style="color: #0000ff;font-family: Arial;"><b>We get no buffs that we can put on others other then 1 hate transfer buff, and Pathfinding.</b></span></p><p><span style="font-family: Arial;">Scout excell at everything in the game !!! </span></p><p><span style="color: #0000ff;font-family: Arial;"><b>Think what you want, but your wrong.</b></span></p><p><span style="font-family: Arial;">So you asked what can a scout DO .. it was effortless to make a list .. becasue its obvious what a scout can do if you have played this game for more that 6 months</span></p><p>You see a strategy game always involves trying to push your advantage , and expose anothers weakness. The fact is scouts have no weakness to expose, any point you call weak on a  scout is shared by most other classes .. and the evac threads are here in such abundance becasue in that rare moment where thru luck .. or skill you catch a scout flat footed .. Poof gone. </p><p>Myself i dont have a huge evac problem .. id like to see it match the wizard evac ona 30 min timer .. </p><p>My beef is more with the GPS and over the top DPS that is standatd in t8 at the moment. </p></blockquote>Wizards evac is 15 minutes, not 30.  And if you grip is to make evac interruptable, fine, but don't come here saying scouts are the best at everything, cuase that is just not true at all.

Vydar
12-27-2007, 05:05 PM
This thread delivers.  To be honest.... EVERYONE seems like they got some major upscaling in RoK, and the only ones that I see really struggling are those who don't focus nightly on upgrading their gear, which is readily available in the instances, questlines, faction merchants, etc.  I quit playing my Assassin for the time being to play Berserker so our guild would have a tank for instances and such, and I could see someone making a thread about Warriors just as long, thoughtless, and drawn out as this one.I could also make a similar post about druids.  Sorcerers.  /shrugLearn your enemy, learn their class, learn their weaknesses... get edumucated. 

Bloodfa
12-27-2007, 05:10 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>This thread delivers.  To be honest.... EVERYONE seems like they got some major upscaling in RoK, and the only ones that I see really struggling are those who don't focus nightly on upgrading their gear, which is readily available in the instances, questlines, faction merchants, etc.  I quit playing my Assassin for the time being to play Berserker so our guild would have a tank for instances and such, and I could see someone making a thread about Warriors just as long, thoughtless, and drawn out as this one.I could also make a similar post about druids.  Sorcerers.  /shrugLearn your enemy, learn their class, learn their weaknesses... get edumucated.  </blockquote>I was going to post a reply, but the above post summed it up more succinctly than I.  Well done, by the way.

Dh
12-27-2007, 05:13 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><span style="font-family: Arial;">dps #1 - #2 situational </span></p><p><span style="color: #0000ff;font-family: Arial;"><b>In a perfect situation, we can be #1 DPS.  But it has to be perfect.  Otherwise we are out done by Sorcerers.</b></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><p>Bullsht - Non bard Scout DPS IS the highest in the game for PVE and PVP - <i>see resists. </i>Don't even try to argue differently because anyone that knows this game will not be fooled. </p><p>Non-bard Scout DPS in pvp is at least double that of sorcerers specially if someone is interrupting them constantly. If interrupted/resisted it could go Rogue 5:1 ratio easy.  If every mage spell lands without one resist, rogue dps should be around twice as much dps as mages and just under that of a warlock in 6v6 fight. That is, if everyone of the the 4-5 sec cast warlock spells don't get chain resisted like it is now in t8. I think there is some magical invisible door you step through when you level to t8 where spells no longer land anywhere near as often as they should even with high disruption skills.</p><p>Anyone in their right mind that has played a rogue then played ANY other class after that, would never complain about ANYTHING. Its obvious that you rogues are on your first PVP toon.</p>

Bloodfa
12-27-2007, 05:17 PM
<p>Says the 80 Warlock with the locked profile that repeatedly Rifted us last night.  I've yet to see any single Swashbuckler, or Brigand for that matter, take out an entire group with a single attack.  Manashield .... check, Rift ... check, incoming tokens ... check.  </p><p>Just wanted to clarify, not trying to take a dig at you or anything, because I should add that they were some pretty fun fights, it just sucks that Rift is a ground-zero nuke that blasts out for a huge area.</p>

KannaWhoopass
12-27-2007, 05:24 PM
<p>The above list is only poisons .. i didnt list all of the other ca abilities .... </p><p>Yes you are a dps class .. good for you .. i suppose that means you are entitled to have more dps than any other class can compensate for thru healing for mitigation .. </p><p>Not only that the class defining ability of finding anyone you want ,, and being able to escape anytime you want.. with that high dps .. and stealh .. i supose you think that is some kind of birth right from choosing scout at the character selection screen.. </p><p>And thru all of the typing .. tell me now where is the scout weakness ? Im still waiting to see it posted for all of us to see .. </p><p>Im sure it is obvious and we must all just be blind. ? </p><p>So tell me now where is a scout weaker than all other classes ?</p><p>Because even a ranger stuck fighting toe to toe which is the usual example does more dps than several classes .. so edumicate me .. </p>

Psych
12-27-2007, 05:26 PM
scouts arent the best at everything and that was obviously not what he was trying to say. He knows scouts cant heal and he wasnt trying to say they were the best healer. If you thought that was what he meant then you both made mistakes and are quite silly.What he clearly meant was that scouts are the best at PVP. He was right.No no, dont argue, its pointless to do so and I'll explain why.Because I've played to nearly 40 on freep side and been all over neriak and freeport for hours a day DAY AFTER DAY.I've been all over Qeynos and Kelethin I've done the betrayal quest I've made more alts than I recall...seriously like 40.The class I've witnessed running around me the most?Freep side? BrigandQ side? RangerIn every MMO everyone knows the PVP servers most popular build/class will be the one that wins the most. Why? Because nobody likes to lose, everyone loves a winner. Even in class based FPS people pick the most overall powerful class every time. The that gets wins the easiest. In EQ2 it just happens to be the scout.Yes there does have to be a best but the problem most people have right now is that the scout has too much of the best. Best burst DPSBest ranged DPS through more ranged CA's than other classes. Bow range means you can be outside spell range, its a HUGE deal to start a fight outside of all your opponents attacks ranges.Best defense and offense through track. Honestly, sitting under kelethin, running through gfay for hours I wasnt caught once because of the tracking skill of a 13 dirge. Wow. Even while slaughter flagged enemy red cons were easily outran thanks to the horses and the nearby zones/terrain. If you ever die as a scout with track and 3sec evac its simple...go uninstall and have someone drive you to the nearest eye doctor cause YOU ARE BLIND. To die with tracking takes the same odds as winning the lotto but after you have evac as well (level 24?) if you die at all you just plain are not good. If your scout has 1 death after he gets evac and you die even 1 time just delete him because you really are giving the good scouts a bad name and making them look <i><b>average</b></i> with your lack of what most on here refer to as "skill"Also, while scouts are not the fastest in the game they get a speed advantage vs any solo mage, fighter, or cleric.Thats more than half the games classes you can just outrun and runspeed is a big deal especially for mages who have to stand still to cast on you and cant afford to sprint without losing a huge amount of power by comparison to other classes since the sprint power costs are % based.Also the reason I said scout is great for offense is because you can find someone and stay a good distance back until they engage an npc mob. If you do this correctly it increases the chance of winning greatly. If you do this wrong and they spot you they can give chase with a mob on them but odds are you can outrun them. You can also be sure theyre solo I mean no other players popped up on your track right?So we have so far that thanks to track nobody can sneak up on you. Thanks to track its basically point click to find the exact location of anyone nearby and is much easier to catch them mid-fight.Thanks to track you can make sure your opponent is not only ungrouped without ever even seeing them up close but you can rest assured they dont even have any fellow city members nearby that might help if they /shout.Also I believe if you skim the forums you can find where the owner of the brigand taer claimed his brig toon's mit matched that of his zerk. I believe he said it was 58%. So yeah, the chain mitigation isnt that bad *wink wink*Lets see...what else...avoidance...oh please. Monks and bruisers might beat you out there so oh no you have top tier dps/mit, track, evac and secont best avoidance your totally nerfed!!!!11 one.Pshaw!I wrote all this and its really just an elaboration of what I originally said. Preds/Rogues are the most playes classes for a reason. Just accept it and stop trying to fight it on the boards. Tons of things have been fought on the boards and the devs have always done what they see is right. They dont only see one side of an argument they are without bias and have the games best interest in mind when making changes.Everyone making wild claims and fabricating numbers isnt gonna change anything. Just sit back and relax and let what happens HAPPEN.When the storm is over atleast your not a summoner. <u><i><b><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></b></i></u>

BWLeeEllison
12-27-2007, 05:34 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Says the 80 Warlock with the locked profile that repeatedly Rifted us last night.  I've yet to see any single Swashbuckler, or Brigand for that matter, take out an entire group with a single attack.  Manashield .... check, Rift ... check, incoming tokens ... check.  </p><p>Just wanted to clarify, not trying to take a dig at you or anything, because I should add that they were some pretty fun fights, it just sucks that Rift is a ground-zero nuke that blasts out for a huge area.</p></blockquote><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">Amen.  Although I feel a brig has a better chance at picking apart a group, given they are kings of debuff, even with the nerfs they have been handed. /sad</span>

Dh
12-27-2007, 05:48 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Says the 80 Warlock with the locked profile that repeatedly Rifted us last night.  I've yet to see any single Swashbuckler, or Brigand for that matter, take out an entire group with a single attack.  Manashield .... check, Rift ... check, incoming tokens ... check.  </p><p>Just wanted to clarify, not trying to take a dig at you or anything, because I should add that they were some pretty fun fights, it just sucks that Rift is a ground-zero nuke that blasts out for a huge area.</p></blockquote><p>Rift really doesn't do much damage in PVP compared to fission, but 2 of them can take half of everyone's life if both land. We had 2 warlocks a swash and a warden... we just exiled so no tokens <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /> With everyone zerging us, we finally died when there was about 10 people around our corpses and you were all on our recent list. Was still fun tho =P</p>

Bloodfa
12-27-2007, 05:54 PM
<p>For those that don't know how to beat a Scout, dammit, just roll one, play it for a while, and find out.  I don't think you'll find one here that will tell you "here, right here, that's the sweet spot".  Evac & tracking ... oh boy, let me see ... tracking doesn't always pick up on everybody there.  Sometimes it looks like a good fight, or an easy one, and it turns into 3-to-1 against ... good luck on that evac.  Or already being involved in PvP and having [Removed for Content]-poor luck to have others stumble by, again, no in combat evac.  If in-combat speed is enough of a gamebreaker for you, reroll and take a race that has innate buffs.  Or respec.  If it's out of combat move speed, buy a horse.  Rogues get 16% Pathfinding.  That doesn't stack on a horse.  If you're a clothy and on foot, yeah, you're [Removed for Content].  If you're on horseback, it's not an issue.</p><p>You know what?  If they removed tracking from the game, then it's going to be a matter of "Well, he's got a faster computer, or dual video cards, or ... "  I already see targets further away than my tracking shows them, this would just tempt me to go for another upgrade.  Is there going to be some cry for a nerf to video card settings, so Max Distance for rendering becomes greyed out?  They'd better start mailing out tissues with every update, because the same 23 people that always scream "They're overpowered!  That {fill in the target of the month that I'm not playing} class has too many things better than me that I can't be bothered to figure out how to counter!" are going to be the ones hit with the bat sooner or later.  That would be the nukers and druids.  What's going to happen when the calls go out for their abilities to be seriously looked at?  You know, the emergency insta-heals (truly uninterruptable, by the way), the immunity to root/snare, and the multitude of massive spell damages that can pretty much one-shot somebody, or a group for that matter? </p>

Badaxe Ba
12-27-2007, 05:59 PM
<cite>Psych wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>scouts arent the best at everything and that was obviously not what he was trying to say. He knows scouts cant heal and he wasnt trying to say they were the best healer. If you thought that was what he meant then you both made mistakes and are quite silly.What he clearly meant was that scouts are the best at PVP. He was right.No no, dont argue, its pointless to do so and I'll explain why.Because I've played to nearly 40 on freep side and been all over neriak and freeport for hours a day DAY AFTER DAY.I've been all over Qeynos and Kelethin I've done the betrayal quest I've made more alts than I recall...seriously like 40.The class I've witnessed running around me the most?Freep side? BrigandQ side? RangerIn every MMO everyone knows the PVP servers most popular build/class will be the one that wins the most. Why? Because nobody likes to lose, everyone loves a winner. Even in class based FPS people pick the most overall powerful class every time. The that gets wins the easiest. In EQ2 it just happens to be the scout.Yes there does have to be a best but the problem most people have right now is that the scout has too much of the best. Best burst DPS</p><p><span style="color: #009900;">Not since the removal of Focus Aim (ie rangers)</span>Best ranged DPS through more ranged CA's than other classes. Bow range means you can be outside spell range, its a HUGE deal to start a fight outside of all your opponents attacks ranges.</p><p><span style="color: #009900;">We have exactly two ranged CA's that are castable when moving, one requires stealth though, and the other requires position (ie behind target). All other ranged CA's require us to stand still, just like a caster.  As for best ranged CA's, well duh, we are rangers.  And that extra range?  It has to be earned, thru AA's and acquiring the right bow.  This isn't an automatically given ability.</span>Best defense and offense through track. Honestly, sitting under kelethin, running through gfay for hours I wasnt caught once because of the tracking skill of a 13 dirge. Wow. Even while slaughter flagged enemy red cons were easily outran thanks to the horses and the nearby zones/terrain. If you ever die as a scout with track and 3sec evac its simple...go uninstall and have someone drive you to the nearest eye doctor cause YOU ARE BLIND. To die with tracking takes the same odds as winning the lotto but after you have evac as well (level 24?) if you die at all you just plain are not good. If your scout has 1 death after he gets evac and you die even 1 time just delete him because you really are giving the good scouts a bad name and making them look <i><b>average</b></i> with your lack of what most on here refer to as "skill"</p><p><span style="color: #009900;">Here we go again with the exxagerations.  Following this logic, a scout class is so uber as to be undefeatable, and all those people claiming to be able to beat scouts have only been defeating blind players.  Twisted logic at best, but really an intended attempt to belittle anyone who argues against you.</span>Also, while scouts are not the fastest in the game they get a speed advantage vs any solo mage, fighter, or cleric.</p><p><span style="color: #009900;">What about furies, hmm? 100% runspeed anyone? Aren't they considered clerics?  </span>Thats more than half the games classes you can just outrun and runspeed is a big deal especially for mages who have to stand still to cast on you and cant afford to sprint without losing a huge amount of power by comparison to other classes since the sprint power costs are % based.</p><p><span style="color: #009900;">Not to mention running away ever killed an opposing player.</span>Also the reason I said scout is great for offense is because you can find someone and stay a good distance back until they engage an npc mob. If you do this correctly it increases the chance of winning greatly. If you do this wrong and they spot you they can give chase with a mob on them but odds are you can outrun them. You can also be sure theyre solo I mean no other players popped up on your track right?So we have so far that thanks to track nobody can sneak up on you. Thanks to track its basically point click to find the exact location of anyone nearby and is much easier to catch them mid-fight.</p><p><span style="color: #009900;">False.  Track might let a scout locate someone, it certainly doesn't tell you if that person is engaged with anything.  That requires LOS.  And LOS is a two way street.</span>Thanks to track you can make sure your opponent is not only ungrouped without ever even seeing them up close but you can rest assured they dont even have any fellow city members nearby that might help if they /shout.</p><p><span style="color: #009900;">False.  Track doesn't tell you if someone is grouped or not, it only can give you what is within the raqnge of track, and this has been limited in range and scope.</span>Also I believe if you skim the forums you can find where the owner of the brigand taer claimed his brig toon's mit matched that of his zerk. I believe he said it was 58%. So yeah, the chain mitigation isnt that bad *wink wink*</p><p><span style="color: #009900;">One player's hard earned gear and skills does NOT mean that all players match that.  Even if it did, to me it points to a problem in the mitigation rates of plate vs. chain, not scout vs. tank.</span>Lets see...what else...avoidance...oh please. Monks and bruisers might beat you out there so oh no you have top tier dps/mit, track, evac and secont best avoidance your totally nerfed!!!!11 one.Pshaw!I wrote all this and its really just an elaboration of what I originally said. Preds/Rogues are the most playes classes for a reason. Just accept it and stop trying to fight it on the boards. Tons of things have been fought on the boards and the devs have always done what they see is right. They dont only see one side of an argument they are without bias and have the games best interest in mind when making changes.Everyone making wild claims and fabricating numbers isnt gonna change anything. Just sit back and relax and let what happens HAPPEN.When the storm is over atleast your not a summoner. <u><i><b><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></b></i></u></p></blockquote>Honestly, you're best line was the last one, as conjurors and necros are IMO the first classes requiring boosts in certain areas, not further removal or nerfages of the already most nerfed classes existing (scouts).

Bloodfa
12-27-2007, 06:00 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Says the 80 Warlock with the locked profile that repeatedly Rifted us last night.  I've yet to see any single Swashbuckler, or Brigand for that matter, take out an entire group with a single attack.  Manashield .... check, Rift ... check, incoming tokens ... check.  </p><p>Just wanted to clarify, not trying to take a dig at you or anything, because I should add that they were some pretty fun fights, it just sucks that Rift is a ground-zero nuke that blasts out for a huge area.</p></blockquote><p>Rift really doesn't do much damage in PVP compared to fission, but 2 of them can take half of everyone's life if both land. We had 2 warlocks a swash and a warden... we just exiled so no tokens <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15"> With everyone zerging us, we finally died when there was about 10 people around our corpses and you were all on our recent list. Was still fun tho =P</p></blockquote>You know the worst part?  When I first saw Kughelf with you guys, I wondered if there was going to be some "Well, we were just in the same guild together yesterday, maybe we'll just ignore each other and ..." and I never got to complete the thought.  Maybe those take half somebody's life at 80, but they take almost all of mine at 76, and I'm often the highest level toon in the group. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />   I think I still have some gravel in my hair from those fights.

Sightless
12-27-2007, 06:28 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><span style="font-family: Arial;">dps #1 - #2 situational </span></p><p><span style="color: #0000ff;font-family: Arial;"><b>In a perfect situation, we can be #1 DPS.  But it has to be perfect.  Otherwise we are out done by Sorcerers.</b></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><p>Bullsht - Non bard Scout DPS IS the highest in the game for PVE and PVP - <i>see resists. </i>Don't even try to argue differently because anyone that knows this game will not be fooled. </p><p>Non-bard Scout DPS in pvp is at least double that of sorcerers specially if someone is interrupting them constantly. If interrupted/resisted it could go Rogue 5:1 ratio easy.  If every mage spell lands without one resist, rogue dps should be around twice as much dps as mages and just under that of a warlock in 6v6 fight. That is, if everyone of the the 4-5 sec cast warlock spells don't get chain resisted like it is now in t8. I think there is some magical invisible door you step through when you level to t8 where spells no longer land anywhere near as often as they should even with high disruption skills.</p><p>Anyone in their right mind that has played a rogue then played ANY other class after that, would never complain about ANYTHING. Its obvious that you rogues are on your first PVP toon.</p></blockquote>YOU ARE A WARLOCK! Right now on my 54 Warlock I'm doing more DPS to level 70s than my 74 Ranger can do. For some reason my best friends Wizard gets resisted to them, but I am not seeing as many resists. Not to mention the fact a Warlock can rip through most groups in five seconds with Focus casting.

Dh
12-27-2007, 06:54 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Says the 80 Warlock with the locked profile that repeatedly Rifted us last night.  I've yet to see any single Swashbuckler, or Brigand for that matter, take out an entire group with a single attack.  Manashield .... check, Rift ... check, incoming tokens ... check.  </p><p>Just wanted to clarify, not trying to take a dig at you or anything, because I should add that they were some pretty fun fights, it just sucks that Rift is a ground-zero nuke that blasts out for a huge area.</p></blockquote><p>Rift really doesn't do much damage in PVP compared to fission, but 2 of them can take half of everyone's life if both land. We had 2 warlocks a swash and a warden... we just exiled so no tokens <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15"> With everyone zerging us, we finally died when there was about 10 people around our corpses and you were all on our recent list. Was still fun tho =P</p></blockquote>You know the worst part?  When I first saw Kughelf with you guys, I wondered if there was going to be some "Well, we were just in the same guild together yesterday, maybe we'll just ignore each other and ..." and I never got to complete the thought.  Maybe those take half somebody's life at 80, but they take almost all of mine at 76, and I'm often the highest level toon in the group. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" />   I think I still have some gravel in my hair from those fights.</blockquote><p>LOL. </p><p>Kughelf was in our guild for few months and we played with him on vox be4 that.</p><p>To sightless... warlocks are best below t8 before the resists get screwed up. Soon as you hit 71 ur spells are broke. They must have just added some last minute thing for level 71+ with resists just like the AA cap:</p><p>For levels 10-70 you can spend ( 1.5 x Adventure level ) acheivement points.After level 71 the cap is lifted.  At level 70 you can have 105 AA, at 71 you can have 140 </p><p>Whatever formula they used for resists below level 70 stayed the same and after 71 they used some PoS formula that causes too many outright resists.</p>

HerbertWalker
12-27-2007, 08:25 PM
<p>Rogue and Predator classes are overplayed, and this is the main reason why these classes should be made less attractive, while at the same time making the vastly underplayed classes more attractive.   Such changes would bring the population of each archtype/class closer to each other, which assumes a more diverse play experience overall.</p><p>Pretty simple really.   No one needs to prove that any class is overpowered, only that it is overplayed.</p>

mtwideen
12-27-2007, 09:11 PM
l<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>The above list is only poisons .. i didnt list all of the other ca abilities .... </p><p>Yes you are a dps class .. good for you .. i suppose that means you are entitled to have more dps than any other class can compensate for thru healing for mitigation .. </p><p>Not only that the class defining ability of finding anyone you want ,, and being able to escape anytime you want.. with that high dps .. and stealh .. i supose you think that is some kind of birth right from choosing scout at the character selection screen.. </p><p>And thru all of the typing .. tell me now where is the scout weakness ? Im still waiting to see it posted for all of us to see .. </p><p>Im sure it is obvious and we must all just be blind. ? </p><p>So tell me now where is a scout weaker than all other classes ?</p><p>Because even a ranger stuck fighting toe to toe which is the usual example does more dps than several classes .. so edumicate me .. </p></blockquote>Lol, I'm not gonna say rangers aren't OP, although I think it is a lot better now cause of focus aim, and scouts are a good solo classs, but to say rangers fighting toe to toe are even remotly decent is a straight up LIE. Rangers in close combat are brutal, when i had just turned 70 I fought my friend (a ranger, and I am a dirge) in the arena. He had all faibled raid gear and is a very good ranger. I had legendary/MC gear and almost no adept 3s (as I had just betrayed from troub) I had adept1s and app4s. So anyways, we fought in a regular fight, he took me out in a few seconds I didn't do any damage. So we did a fight where he couldn't use his ranged attacks. We started cose, and he meleed me, I was easily beating him, about to kill him, when he just decided to be a dick, stun/snare me and unload arrows into me and kill me.Anyways, my point isn't to say rangers/scouts are OP or not, I don't really wanna get involved, I don't care, but to say rangers are even half decent in toe to toe is just not even close to true

BWLeeEllison
12-28-2007, 03:26 AM
<cite>HerbertWalker wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Rogue and Predator classes are overplayed, and this is the main reason why <span style="font-size: x-small;"><b>these classes should be made less attractive, while at the same time making the vastly underplayed classes more attractive</b>.</span>   Such changes would bring the population of each archtype/class closer to each other, which assumes a more diverse play experience overall.</p><p>Pretty simple really.   No one needs to prove that any class is overpowered, only that it is overplayed.</p></blockquote><p><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">If the Whopper is Burger King's best selling sandwich, but they wanna boost sales of some other sandwich, they make the other sandwich more attractive to the customer either with coupons or a sale, or whatever.  The do not simultaneously disgruntle their customers by purposefully raising the price on the Whopper or radically changing it to make it LESS attractive to the customer base.  Bring the unpopular up, <b><span style="font-size: medium;">BUT DON'T FIX WHAT ISN'T BROKEN!</span></b></span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: Comic Sans MS;">I would suggest Sony give an exp bonus to the underplayed classes for some fixed period, if need be.</span></p>

BWLeeEllison
12-28-2007, 03:36 AM
<cite>mtwideen wrote:</cite><blockquote>l<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>The above list is only poisons .. i didnt list all of the other ca abilities .... </p><p>Yes you are a dps class .. good for you .. i suppose that means you are entitled to have more dps than any other class can compensate for thru healing for mitigation .. </p><p>Not only that the class defining ability of finding anyone you want ,, and being able to escape anytime you want.. with that high dps .. and stealh .. i supose you think that is some kind of birth right from choosing scout at the character selection screen.. </p><p>And thru all of the typing .. tell me now where is the scout weakness ? Im still waiting to see it posted for all of us to see .. </p><p>Im sure it is obvious and we must all just be blind. ? </p><p>So tell me now where is a scout weaker than all other classes ?</p><p>Because even a ranger stuck fighting toe to toe which is the usual example does more dps than several classes .. so edumicate me .. </p></blockquote>Lol, I'm not gonna say rangers aren't OP, although I think it is a lot better now cause of focus aim, and scouts are a good solo classs, but to say rangers fighting toe to toe are even remotly decent is a straight up LIE. Rangers in close combat are brutal, when i had just turned 70 I fought my friend (a ranger, and I am a dirge) in the arena. He had all faibled raid gear and is a very good ranger. I had legendary/MC gear and almost no adept 3s (as I had just betrayed from troub) I had adept1s and app4s. So anyways, we fought in a regular fight, he took me out in a few seconds I didn't do any damage. So we did a fight where he couldn't use his ranged attacks. We started cose, and he meleed me, I was easily beating him, about to kill him, when he just decided to be a [I cannot control my vocabulary], stun/snare me and unload arrows into me and kill me.Anyways, my point isn't to say rangers/scouts are OP or not, I don't really wanna get involved, I don't care, but to say rangers are even half decent in toe to toe is just not even close to true</blockquote>A warlock toe to toe scares me more than a brig does, and a zerk scares me more than having to fight, say, an exiled swash.  That said, in regards to rangers, if a ranger takes the INT AP line, they are absolute punishers of man and beast.  They will get you at range as most rangers do, and when you get in their grill, as is the standard tactic when faced with a ranger (never run from a ranger, it's absolute stupidity to do so), they destroy you with their AP ability.  Your vision is blurred for so long you are dead before you recover.  It is just nasty.

Hinosh
12-28-2007, 01:11 PM
<cite>BWLeeEllison wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>mtwideen wrote:</cite><blockquote>l<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>The above list is only poisons .. i didnt list all of the other ca abilities .... </p><p>Yes you are a dps class .. good for you .. i suppose that means you are entitled to have more dps than any other class can compensate for thru healing for mitigation .. </p><p>Not only that the class defining ability of finding anyone you want ,, and being able to escape anytime you want.. with that high dps .. and stealh .. i supose you think that is some kind of birth right from choosing scout at the character selection screen.. </p><p>And thru all of the typing .. tell me now where is the scout weakness ? Im still waiting to see it posted for all of us to see .. </p><p>Im sure it is obvious and we must all just be blind. ? </p><p>So tell me now where is a scout weaker than all other classes ?</p><p>Because even a ranger stuck fighting toe to toe which is the usual example does more dps than several classes .. so edumicate me .. </p></blockquote>Lol, I'm not gonna say rangers aren't OP, although I think it is a lot better now cause of focus aim, and scouts are a good solo classs, but to say rangers fighting toe to toe are even remotly decent is a straight up LIE. Rangers in close combat are brutal, when i had just turned 70 I fought my friend (a ranger, and I am a dirge) in the arena. He had all faibled raid gear and is a very good ranger. I had legendary/MC gear and almost no adept 3s (as I had just betrayed from troub) I had adept1s and app4s. So anyways, we fought in a regular fight, he took me out in a few seconds I didn't do any damage. So we did a fight where he couldn't use his ranged attacks. We started cose, and he meleed me, I was easily beating him, about to kill him, when he just decided to be a [I cannot control my vocabulary], stun/snare me and unload arrows into me and kill me.Anyways, my point isn't to say rangers/scouts are OP or not, I don't really wanna get involved, I don't care, but to say rangers are even half decent in toe to toe is just not even close to true</blockquote>A warlock toe to toe scares me more than a brig does, and a zerk scares me more than having to fight, say, an exiled swash.  That said, in regards to rangers, if a ranger takes the INT AP line, they are absolute punishers of man and beast.  They will get you at range as most rangers do, and when you get in their grill, as is the standard tactic when faced with a ranger (never run from a ranger, it's absolute stupidity to do so), they destroy you with their AP ability.  <span style="color: #cc0000;"><b>Your vision is blurred for so long you are dead before you recover.</b></span>  It is just nasty.</blockquote>This really isn't related to anything this thread's talking about, but if you're playing a race with Ultravision (or Sonicvision, haven't tested this one out), use it, and the blur goes away and everything turns purple.