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View Full Version : A Better Way to See (or not)


BWLeeEllison
12-27-2007, 05:24 AM
<p><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">I hinted at this as a possible solution for several arguments ongoing on this particular board, and mayhap others as well.  I will elaborate the idea further and see what comes of it (likely nothing, but let's discuss, shall we?)</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: Comic Sans MS;">Definitions   Hider -- person using stealth or invis.   Seer -- person attempting to see a hider.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: Comic Sans MS;">Supposition 1:   Base radius in which a seer has a chance to spot a hider is 30 feet.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: Comic Sans MS;">Supposition 2:   Base chance to spot a hider is 10%</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: Comic Sans MS;">Supposition 3:   Both hiding and seeing abilities are given a rank (App1, App2, App4, Adp1, Adp3, M1, and possibly M2)</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: Comic Sans MS;">Taking all these factors into consideration, the proposal is as follows...When the seer has a detection ability, s/he gets a 10% bonus to their CHANCE to see the hider per rank of their detection.  <span style="color: #ff0000;">App1 = +10 || App2 = +20 || App 4 = +30 || Adp1 = +40 || Adp3 = +50 || M1 = +60 || M2 = +70</span>When the seer exceeds the hider in level, s/he gets +1% per level above the hider.The seer gets +1 foot per rank to their detection radius and +1 foot per level they exceed the hider by.The hider's rank reduces the chance to be seen by the same amount as shown above.  <span style="color: #ff0000;">App1 = -10 || App2 = -20 || App 4 = -30 || Adp1 = -40 || Adp3 = -50 || M1 = -60 || M2 = -70</span>The hider reduces the detection radius by 1 foot per rank they have and 1 foot per level they exceed the seer by.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: Comic Sans MS;">Totems have a flat bonus for the hider or the seer depending on the type of totem being employed.  Call it 25% to the chance and/or +5 feet for arguments sake.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: Comic Sans MS;">Again, this is just a suggestion.  Do the math and discuss.</span></p>

-Arctura-
12-27-2007, 06:09 AM
(( By the looks of this, it would require a sizeable bit of coding<b><i>However, it appears to be extremely clever and ingenuitive.</i></b>Id say<u> worthy of attempting</u> for the Test server atleast <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

BWLeeEllison
12-27-2007, 12:12 PM
<p><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">Actually, I don't forsee the coding as being all that difficult.  A lot of cut and paste imho, just to get the books for it added into the game.  The biggest issue I would predict for this would be in deciding if they would actually allow anyone to Master 2 the blasted things.</span></p>

Bauer
12-27-2007, 12:19 PM
This is a nice idea, GJThe numbers need a little tweaking, and it does seems to favour the hider compared to our current scheme, but yeah it's feasible i spose! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

Saroun
12-27-2007, 02:55 PM
Sounds very similar to what they had in Dark Age of Camelot.  The higher the stealther got his stealth ability, the closer he could get to a person without being seen.  And differences in level and 'see stealth' skills effected the stealthers ability to stay undetected.  The difference I see is that in DaoC the stealther had to sacrifice other abilities to be able to get close to people reliably in stealth, whereas this way every stealther would just need to get Adept III's or MI's for their ability.

Norrsken
12-27-2007, 03:02 PM
Nice idea tbh.

BWLeeEllison
12-27-2007, 03:22 PM
<cite>Saroun wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sounds very similar to what they had in Dark Age of Camelot.  The higher the stealther got his stealth ability, the closer he could get to a person without being seen.  And differences in level and 'see stealth' skills effected the stealthers ability to stay undetected.  The difference I see is that in DaoC the stealther had to sacrifice other abilities to be able to get close to people reliably in stealth, whereas this way every stealther would just need to get Adept III's or MI's for their ability.</blockquote><p><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">Never played DAoC.  Read their intentions for PvP and took a pass.  I wouldn't mind if while stealthed I had a mitigation drop or something.  I do NOT wanna go back to the whole 50% movement.  That is BS.  Only game I ever saw do stealth correctly was Shadowbane.  Unless you played a shade, or took the correct rune when setting your character up, you never saw anyone stealthing up on you.  Most interesting thing in that game was if you caught someone sitting down, resting, they took massive damage when you hit them 8P</span></p>

Csky
12-27-2007, 05:40 PM
<p>well i played daoc for 5 years and stealth was thier absolute WORST mistake, which is why thier new game WH doesnt have stealthers</p><p>stealthers in daoc are invisible and have powerful openers but weak in combat otherwise.. an unstealthed stealther is free RPs. they run around in packs hunting solo and duo targets and griefing everyone</p><p>because of the design of the classes..packs run around hunting other packs and thier game is ending with nothing but packs of stealthers running around hunting each other and griefing and zerging everything solo/duo and they cant compete with visibles</p><p>i would NOT like to see stealth done ANYTHING like it is in that game because i know the results and the unplayability it makes..EQ is very playable..daoc is not</p><p>edit: btw im a newer player and came to PVP server and  made a pali and my friend made a shammy and we got to level 24 and have 3x the deaths we have kills because of stealther classes..(well that and the fact that his shaman pet is a barrel of laughs)</p><p>so we made a ranger and troubadour and have been running around the commonlands pretty close to immune from attack from anyone and have 0 deaths so far..no one will EVER kill us unless WE make a mistake</p><p>we have the ability to completly avoid PVP ..which is a pretty unfair advantage considering the pali and shammy have to take whatever comes at them and is still at a disadvantage in combat..the scout classes can just escape if they are losing and theres no way to catch them on top of them being immune to someone else initiating the attack on them..they have the ability to pick and choose the fight AND escape if they are losing</p><p> we will probably stick with the stealth classes although i prefer to play the pali..but i didnt make a plate class to be owned by stealthers and be unable to find PVP because everyone is playing stealthers</p><p>i dont think the stealth classes need to be nerfed whatsoever..i think visibles should be given some better tools to compete with them even if its a type of tracking that doesnt point you to the stealther but lets you be aware one is in the area</p>

Sightless
12-27-2007, 06:34 PM
<p>Csky</p><p>I played DAoC for three years and you're not telling the truth about stealthers. One of the toughest cloth classes in that game to fight can put down nodes that "see stealth" making it near impossible for stealthers to move around. <b>Unless that was changed when I left</b>. Keep battles were won by mages, not stealthers. And a well balanced gank group wasn't made up by stealthers, but I don't care to list the various characters that made the best gank groups. Even some of the mushrooms that could be placed down see stealth.</p><p>You're 24, you can get see stealth and see invis totems that last 15 minutes each time you cast them.</p>

Csky
12-27-2007, 10:27 PM
<p>naa the game changed alot since you left, most of the people moved to classic servers where there is no PNs and no stealth lore</p><p>and there really isnt any keep wars much 90% of the time its just people in FGs wandering around  ganking each other..which stealthers are immune to because they cant be seen by visibles so they just hunt and kill each other anymore and the occasional solo/duo they find..stealth in that game has made the game pretty unsoloable anymore</p><p>the stealthers cant even solo anymore because of see stealth on stealthers..because the solo stealthers are eaten alive by stealth zergs and forced to group to counter it unless they are very high realm rank..which i would HATE to see on this game</p><p>eq2 is very fun and playable even with its scout issues</p><p>thanks for the totem idea ill give that a try because i would much rather play my paladin  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15"></p>

Csky
12-28-2007, 01:25 AM
<p>ok so i play my paladin and get attacked by scout classes in numbers and cant even escape..scouts have such a ridiculous advantage in this game and its embarrasing to make a fighter class and have to run from scouts that cant even be escaped from or seen coming </p><p> my feelings are the visible classes are nothing more than fodder to easy mode stealth/tracking classes that always have the ability to pick and choose fights they cant possibly lose in and avoid any other fights and have speed to catch thier targets and targets cant even escape from them</p><p>if tracking did not work on PCs it wouldnt be an issue because stealthers would be stumbled across naturally without them having the advantage of avoidance by a tracking window and the ability to find people they cant see</p><p>i wont be playing a visible class anymore i will be playing the stealth/tracking class and hunt them just like they do my visible class..it would be stupid to play anything else in this game</p><p>its also nothing at all to do with gear i have been leveling tradeskillers and have very nice gear and decent level spells..the scout classes simply have too much advantage in PVP with thier abilities in comparison</p>

Muraazi
12-28-2007, 02:16 AM
Did you even read what the guy said? See stealth totems negate stealth, they are available to anyone post lvl 20 or 30 I forget which. The problem lies in track and not stealth. I do like the kind of danger sense idea though.

Csky
12-28-2007, 05:29 AM
<p>i agree ..the problem is in tracking PCs which should be disabled on PVP servers</p><p>the stealth isnt so much of an issue because stealth isnt invisibility</p>

BWLeeEllison
12-28-2007, 07:07 PM
<cite>Csky wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>i agree ..the problem is in tracking PCs which should be disabled on PVP servers</p><p>the stealth isnt so much of an issue because stealth isnt invisibility</p></blockquote><p><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">The only thing needing disabled on PvP servers is harm touch 8P</span></p>

BWLeeEllison
12-29-2007, 05:38 PM
<cite>Csky wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>ok so i play my paladin and get attacked by scout classes in numbers and cant even escape..<b><span style="font-size: small;">scouts have such a ridiculous advantage in this game</span></b> and its embarrasing to make a fighter class and have to run from scouts that cant even be escaped from or seen coming </p><p> my feelings are the visible classes are nothing more than fodder to easy mode stealth/tracking classes that always have the ability to pick and choose fights they cant possibly lose in and avoid any other fights and have speed to catch thier targets and targets cant even escape from them</p><p>if tracking did not work on PCs it wouldnt be an issue because stealthers would be stumbled across naturally without them having the advantage of avoidance by a tracking window and the ability to find people they cant see</p><p>i wont be playing a visible class anymore i will be playing the stealth/tracking class and hunt them just like they do my visible class..it would be stupid to play anything else in this game</p><p>its also nothing at all to do with gear i have been leveling tradeskillers and have very nice gear and decent level spells..the scout classes simply have too much advantage in PVP with thier abilities in comparison</p></blockquote><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">If you don't have at least one toon in tier 8, you have no place arguing about any one class or archetype having an unfair advantage.  I have been in this game since 2004 and on Nagafen since day 1.  I gave up a 51 swash on Crushbone, and various other toons there to reroll everything onto Nagafen.  I now have a 74 swash and various other toons from on in the high teens to a 44 illie.  I have seen how many of the classes play out.  To this day, the only thing I fear more than running into an enemy scout is getting caught off my guard by a robe or a healer.  Take your claims of unfair advantage and plant them where they have a better chance of not seeing daylight, please.</span></b>