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View Full Version : Pet Classes in PvP, another idea


Oneira
12-17-2007, 09:45 AM
I know there have been several posts on pvp class rankings and melee vs caster classes.  If the mods throw my post into another thread that's ok, but i'd like to offer a few ideas here about doing something about it.I don't know whether SOE is going to make any more class changes anymore.  Other than the change to the Ranger Focus Aim, which was an elimination rather than a nerf, I haven't seen any real changes in classes for quite a long time, which leads me to believe that SOE may have decided to stick with things pretty much as they are.  I hope i'm wrong.Consensus  has it that the weakest classes in pvp are:Summoners, both Necros and Conjs.GuardiansShamans, both Mystics and Defilers.I exempt Bards because at least they do have track and evac, that is, they have the benefits of the scout class, even though in solo pvp they certainly aren't very powerful.Enchanters are another tough one to call, because when powerful, they can be very powerful, when weak, they're really weak.  However, there is no doubt that they suffer from being very fragile and often don't survive long enough against a host of high DPS classes to use all those fine abilities.----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I don't know what to say about Guardians.  I have a high level guardian.  They suck in solo or small group pvp.  They're good in groups, but then again, i'm not sure they're any better in their role than brawlers or crusaders.  They taunt probably the best, they help keep group members alive a bit longer and. . . that's about it as far as comparing them to other fighters.  I have no real ideas on how to make them less gimped in pvp.---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Shamans, SOE's poor stepchild of the healers has been amply dealt with in other posts.  I leave them too.---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------For summoners and enchanters, isn't there something SOE can do to make them more playable in solo-small group pvp? The problems are:<ul><li>low survivability.  Nice that you gave sorcerors a regenerating ward with magi shielding and you gave them manashield.  Why you didn't think to give other mages something similar I don't know.</li><li>Unreliability of pets.  Pets halfway across the zone don't help much in pvp.  Plus, pets don't do much of a job keeping  a target off you either.  </li><li>Resistability of spells.  Dealt with elsewhere.  </li></ul>Ok here's two ideas:<ul><li>Why not give the regenerating ward to all mage classes?  Why do sorcerors alone get this?  Plus manashield?  Why did you give both to one subclass and nothing to the other mage classes?  All mages have magi shielding, let them have the ward too.  A little bit of blocked damage goes a long way for a a mage.  Manashield is awesome, but let the sorcs keep it.  </li></ul>Enchanters have a spell called Blink.  It's pretty wazoo.  I know more than a few enchanters who don't even bother using it.  It's a nice idea, but poor in practice.  Meanwhile, Predators and Rogues get a buff that causes an attacker to lose target how often?    Blink is like a 1-shot version of what those classes get as a buff.  /bonk head against wallWhy not take the idea of Blink and do something real with it?  One of the major complaints of pet class mages is the ineffectiveness of their pets, either because they're not even in range when you're getting jumped or because they can't prevent the attacker from retargeting you, the summoner or enchanter, which usually means that you're dead.<ul><li>Rather than Blink, give the pet classes something like a "Switch."  It would go like this:  very fast cast, it switches your position and the position of your pet, as long as the pet is within range (say 35 meters).  Recast timer 1 minute or some such.</li></ul>There are several possibilities here.  It could have an immediate effect of switching, then last for 30 seconds where, each time thereafter that the summoner or enchanter is hit, there is a 5% trigger effect where the switch would take place again.  What's the idea behind this?  Summoners and Enchanters need their pets to be more effective in pvp, not by doing more damage or being beefed up, but simply by having whoever is attacking them being forced to fight their pet more than they want to.  So a summoner or enchanter gets jumped.  <poof> you are gone and that rogue or pred or whoever it was who just took half of your health in 3 seconds is now fighting your pet, not you.  That forces the attacker to retarget you and cross a distance to reach you.  Meanwhile, they have to deal with your pet.  Meanwhile, you can cast a spell or two.  They reach you again and attack.  5% chance on every hit and <poof>, you are gone and that attacker is facing your pet again.It would make fighting pet classes a PITA.  But pets SHOULD be a PITA.  You should not be able to just ignore the pet that's beating on you and head straight for the summoner or enchanter, kill them with a quick burst of DPS and rack up your 3457th straight kill of a mage class that, alas, doesn't have the benefit of manashield.If SOE doesn't want all mages to have manashield, I can understand that.  But give them something more than just lifetaps and stoneskin.   

WasFycksir
12-17-2007, 10:23 AM
<p>I agree with most of your post.  I have a 43 previously locked ($#%#@) necro.</p><p>I don't think they biggest issue is the pet itself, with the correct (PVP) AA's your pet can lock up targets a bit more.  I think the real issue is nearly NO inherant defenses like what the OP said.</p><p>Once targeted, or retargetted by a burst class it's pretty much over.</p><p>A little longer/better taunts off the tank pet would be in order though I think.  Maybe even with the sacrifice of being able to use perceptors command with the mage and scout pet.  That would be more in line with the purpose of a given pet too.</p>

Dh
12-17-2007, 12:26 PM
All scouts get an ability called 'Cheap Shot" which is a 2 second unresistable stun. All Mages should all get an ability like the warlock's Nullcaress. Instead of teleporting all targets in range to a random location (which can bug out) , it should be a AE Knockback/snare/clear target so ALL mages have a chance to survive a few seconds longer to high dps melee classes.  Right now, warlock's Nullcaress can bug out and teleport the whole group enemy directly on top of the warlock and clear their target (lol who you think they are going to target next?)  A nice long distance throw back would be more fun and get rid of this bug.

MokiCh
12-17-2007, 08:09 PM
For enchanters it's really not the pet, but, as the poster above me said, the lack of any sort of inherent defenses. I don't think it would be too much to give manashield to enchanters as well, since they're all about power regen and power management. Lacking that, the regenerating ward on magi's shielding would be nice too, or drastically reduce the recast timers on Blink or Reek of Terror.Another idea for enchanters might be to reduce the immunity timers on their control effects. With immunity timers of upwards of 30-40 seconds, if someone pops cure potions or has cure abilities such as Fervent Focus things can go south in a real hurry and there's nothing you can do about it.A nice ability to help out summoners might be a sort of pet intercede buff, where you take, say, X% damage and your tank pet takes Y% damage of any damage you receive.

Catchisif
12-18-2007, 12:36 PM
<cite>MokiChan wrote:</cite><blockquote>For enchanters it's really not the pet, but, as the poster above me said, the lack of any sort of inherent defenses. I don't think it would be too much to give manashield to enchanters as well, since they're all about power regen and power management. Lacking that, the regenerating ward on magi's shielding would be nice too, or drastically reduce the recast timers on Blink or Reek of Terror.Another idea for enchanters might be to reduce the immunity timers on their control effects. With immunity timers of upwards of 30-40 seconds, if someone pops cure potions or has cure abilities such as Fervent Focus things can go south in a real hurry and there's nothing you can do about it.<b>A nice ability to help out summoners might be a sort of pet intercede buff, where you take, say, X% damage and your tank pet takes Y% damage of any damage you receive.</b> </blockquote> Necromancers had this down the STA line in the Summoner Tree (for the tank pet), but they removed it. Why? But we definitely need some help with defenses and pets need to be increased, Im specced some AGI/WIS for my scout pet and it gets old seeing all of its attacks being resisted and parried and auto attacking for 200, but scouts and zerkers can ranged/auto attack me for near 2k non crit. But thats the least of my worries considering more then half the time my spells are resisted and i die before the first stun/stifle wears off me in pvp.

Oneira
12-18-2007, 03:17 PM
<cite>Catchisif wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>MokiChan wrote:</cite><blockquote>For enchanters it's really not the pet, but, as the poster above me said, the lack of any sort of inherent defenses. I don't think it would be too much to give manashield to enchanters as well, since they're all about power regen and power management. Lacking that, the regenerating ward on magi's shielding would be nice too, or drastically reduce the recast timers on Blink or Reek of Terror.Another idea for enchanters might be to reduce the immunity timers on their control effects. With immunity timers of upwards of 30-40 seconds, if someone pops cure potions or has cure abilities such as Fervent Focus things can go south in a real hurry and there's nothing you can do about it.<b>A nice ability to help out summoners might be a sort of pet intercede buff, where you take, say, X% damage and your tank pet takes Y% damage of any damage you receive.</b> </blockquote> Necromancers had this down the STA line in the Summoner Tree (for the tank pet), but they removed it. Why? But we definitely need some help with defenses and pets need to be increased, Im specced some AGI/WIS for my scout pet and it gets old seeing all of its attacks being resisted and parried and auto attacking for 200, but scouts and zerkers can ranged/auto attack me for near 2k non crit. But thats the least of my worries considering more then half the time my spells are resisted and i die before the first stun/stifle wears off me in pvp.</blockquote>/nod  Something like this would also work.  I just suggested what I did because it could work for Summoners and Enchanters alike, who both need some loving.  But then, if the illusionist's split persona or the pet that the coercer has charmed could be made to do the same thing, i.e. intercept X% amount of damage, that might be workable.Or SOE could just give us all manashield. . .

MokiCh
12-18-2007, 08:48 PM
That would work for illusionist, but the main problem for Coercers in that setup is that the amount of HP their pets have can vary over a fairly wide range. Unless their charm spell is reworked to normalize all mob HP once charmed, they could have some pets that are hugely powerful and can soak up hits all day, and others that go down in two hits.Manashield and regen wards for everyone sounds a lot better to me