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Yodhey
12-17-2007, 05:22 AM
I'm new to eq2 and have started a defiler on Nagafen.  Being ganked is something I've come to expect coming up on a pvp server based on my previous mmo experience, and I have no problem with it at all.  I went with a defiler because I like healing classes in pvp, and because my toon on eq1 was a shammy (the sexiest Good alligned shammy on sullon zek).  From what I've gathered from the forums and some other noobs ingame, I should be locking my xp to gain max aa....strange concept, but I'll play along.  I'm interested in pve raid content as well as pvp content.  It's my understanding that raiding begins at the upper tier levels, so until then I'd like to allocate achievement points towards pvp specific ends.  I plan on rolling 3 deep with a couple of my friends from WoW, a shadow knight and an assassin, so I'm looking for a pvp support build that wont leave me toothless for soloing.  Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Oneira
12-17-2007, 06:12 AM
Welcome to the wonderful world of EQ2 pvp.  I play a Mystic, your counterpart on the Q side, so I can give you a few tips.Locking your combat XP at level 10 is a common practice.  The idea is to get as many AAs as you can early on because they do matter, a lot.  Those first 25 AAs make a big difference.  You'll get your first end ability with 25 if you put them all in a KOS tree, and for many classes one or more of the end abilities is a tremendous boon in pvp.  For you as a Defiler?  It's the INT line.  You want that extra int, the 30% increased spell crit and Scourge.  In low level PvP Scourge is the one thing that makes shamans a class to be feared.What you should do is lock your xp and level up by doing quests.  Get that nice Timorous Deep gear.  Get some MC armor if you manage to harvest some Blackened Iron Clusters, and upgrade your spells to adept III if you manage to come across some Rough Corals.  You'll reach t3 fairly quickly if you quest a lot, so save up your gold until then before you start spending your cash on upgrades.One word:  beware of shamans, our casting times on wards and heals are horrible.  If I were you, I'd try and get a tank to join that group of 3, someone who can taunt the swarming Qs off you, who will otherwise interrupt you to death.

Yodhey
12-17-2007, 07:43 AM
Thanks for the response.  Have a question of a different nature.  Upon further forum trolling, it seems, for pvp utility,  defiler is very weak in contrast to other healing classes.   I do not like playing a class that is ridiculously gimped, but the OP classes don't really appeal to me either.  I'm interested in playing a pvp support role with an average chance in solo pvp, without neglecting pve raid functionality.  I like healing and crowd control. Are defilers as weak as I hear?Is there a class that falls into those parameters?

Oneira
12-17-2007, 08:05 AM
<cite>Yodhey wrote:</cite><blockquote>Thanks for the response.  Have a question of a different nature.  Upon further forum trolling, it seems, for pvp utility,  defiler is very weak in contrast to other healing classes.   I do not like playing a class that is ridiculously gimped, but the OP classes don't really appeal to me either.  I'm interested in playing a pvp support role with an average chance in solo pvp, without neglecting pve raid functionality.  I like healing and crowd control. Are defilers as weak as I hear?Is there a class that falls into those parameters? </blockquote>Well i'll be frank.  Druids own in pvp, period.  Their casting times are the shortest, they get stun/interruption immunity for a short duration, Warden mitigation is as good as ours, Furies are the top DPSing healer.  I could go on.Clerics also do quite well  because they get AA skills that reduce their casting times and give them stun and interrupt immunity for a short duration.  Inquisitors make excellent melee healers.The shortened cast times of the other healing classes and stun/interruption immunity give them a tremendous advantage over shamans in pvp.  Shamans have the advantage of wards, which theoretically speaking are the best form of healing/damage preventation in the game.  In practice unfortunately that is not the case.  First, casting times and interruptibility are crippling.  Second, the way that the group ward is applied at present is very bad, making the druid group regen heal tons more health than our group ward blocks, and I do mean a TON.We can only hope that SOE will make some changes, because right now many shamans are feeling very disadvantaged in pvp, especially once you get beyond t3.As for raids, Defilers are very much desired.

sprogn
12-17-2007, 08:06 AM
<p>Welcome to PVP!</p><p>The defiler class is quite potent when played right but it definately isn't a flavour of the month class.  Your biggest strength lies in good groups with a tank who can take the hits off you and allow you to get those long cast wards off.  With the right AA's, you also become a powerful solo PVP class although you'll struggle more against high DPS classes than say a Warden or Fury.</p><p>Another option that can be a lot of fun is an Inquisitor.  A properly specced inquisitor is "the" true battle cleric.  Plate armour, fantastic melee CA's and DPS with some great heals.  Might be worth considering if you want a little more damage output without sacrificing your healing capacity too much.</p><p>Druids are easymode healers to be honest, and while there are some very skilled ones out there, I will always have more respect for a high ranked shaman or cleric than I will a druid.</p>

sprogn
12-17-2007, 08:08 AM
<p>By the way, screw locking.  It's been nerfed (and rightly so).  Just level up to about 30 on as many quests as you can.  The game starts there to be honest <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Oneira
12-17-2007, 08:48 AM
<cite>sprognak wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>By the way, screw locking.  It's been nerfed (and rightly so).  Just level up to about 30 on as many quests as you can.  The game starts there to be honest <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" /></p></blockquote>I still level lock from 10-20 because i want to get at least some AAs before I hit t3 on my way to that magic number 25th AA.  That first group of AAs really does matter.  Quests will level you plenty fast in t2.  When I hit somewheres around 20-22 I agree with you Sprognak,  there's no more reason to stay locked.  I have a new illusionist that, once I get the penetration line maxed out with 21 AAs, I'll unlock and not worry anymore.

Hatr
12-17-2007, 10:43 AM
<cite>Yodhey wrote:</cite><blockquote>Thanks for the response.  Have a question of a different nature.  Upon further forum trolling, it seems, for pvp utility,  defiler is very weak in contrast to other healing classes.   I do not like playing a class that is ridiculously gimped, but the OP classes don't really appeal to me either.  I'm interested in playing a pvp support role with an average chance in solo pvp, without neglecting pve raid functionality.  I like healing and crowd control. Are defilers as weak as I hear?Is there a class that falls into those parameters? </blockquote>I certainly cannot speak for T5+, however up until T4 I have had a blast PvP'ing with my defiler.   Last week I hit Champion, and I seldomly (maybe 1hr a week) group.  A few things to note:Always know before you are going to get into a fight.  If you are solo, bring up group ward and then single target ward on yourself before you engage.  You will get an extra ~20-30% out of your wards if you cast them pre-PvP engagement.  This means carrying a pile of butterfly totems on you, never letting it go down, and always panning around on your screen for potential enemies.I went INT spec'd and then into defiler page to increase dmg on my DoT's.At 35 I have lost 1 on 1 maybe 5-6 times, and never to anyone less than orange.  The key really is to get yourself prewarded... however you can pull it off, you need to.  While the opponent is working on your wards you should drop every one of your DoTs on them, and if they are melee your dps/speed debuff.  If you are unable to get your wards off, pop fear, immediately hit group ward and refresh your DoT's.For druids/healers, if you go INT line, just dps them as normal and wait for them to heal themselves.  As soon as you see the heal go up, pop Scourge and immediately follow up with as much dmg as possible.Honestly monks & brigands are more of a problem than druids for me, as the interrupts are more of an issue to deal w/ than outlasting a druids heals/nukes.

sprogn
12-17-2007, 11:47 AM
<p>Would also suggest getting spike adorned shoulders and shield.  My mystic has won a LOT of fights simply by the porcupining tactic.</p><p>You'll also get a great feeling of accomplishment by winning fights as a defiler <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

tequiero
12-17-2007, 02:54 PM
<p>         Defiler are   by far the hardest healign class to play( mystic as well), i have  a 77 defiler and a 76 mystic  at the moment,  lvling them up is painfull and soloing them  at low levels. untill you get   a good chuck of aa's  after you get about  30 35 aa's life gets better but not  easy still lol.  Mystic do much better in solo pvp in higher lvl than  defiler  but ( defiler can  kill a mystic one on one). reason i know this cause  i have fougth many  many good defilers with my mystic and yet   to win 1 figth  ( not saying they havent been close).</p><p>      but liek it was said before once you get that destroyer tittle/champion title and above  you will  feel very proud cause you know how  much work  it is.</p>

KannaWhoopass
12-17-2007, 05:01 PM
<p>Being a Defier in PvP is PAIN</p><p>Defiler is a awsome PvE class but in PvP they are lacking everything that makes a good class. </p><p>They lack a native speed buff, totems are the best you can hope for. </p><p>They lack a stealth or invis ability, and dont have a escape like evac or chetah . </p><p>Their armor is chain but in terms of priests, this is not such a great improvement. Clerics wear plate , druids can buff mitigation to be on par with chain. </p><p>But what makes them so hard to play is that thir dps is sooooooooo low. In a PvP encounter i think you would be lucky to get 200 dps.  Which means in t7-t8 you are looking at a 35+ second fight. </p><p>Many of the classes are able to totally destroy you several times over in this time period.  </p><p>Most scout classes can out dps your hps .. meaning if you did nothing but heal the whole time with no interuptions you would die before you ran out of power.  Once you factor in the long cast times of the defiler , and the fact that outside of the fear proc there is no means to stop the incoming DPS.  You are goiong to die alot , On paper if you arranged the perfect fight , where you had time to have your group and single ward's stacked on you .. and started the attack with big debuffs .. covered your opponent with dots . feared him off to lower the incoming DPS and reapplied your wards.. you could still loose ..  but and here is the kicker .. if you were winning .. your opponent can just turn and run away .. and there is nothing you can do to stop them .. if you sprint after them and try to hit the agility aa ability to root them ... you will have no power they will turn and smoke you .. </p><p>The defiler group healing is poor. Incoming group DPS is hard to counter as a defiler.. </p><p>In PvP you will never get to use your group ward it takes too long to cast.. and for the time investment .. VS grp aoe's isnt worth the cast time. The single wards are ok and if you have death ward it is an ok addition to the defiler abilities, However there is never or uber rare that a defiler in a PvP encounter will save the day for his group .. and several examples where any other healing class could have performed better. </p><p>If i were you i would have my defiler and use him for raids where his benefits are appreciated .. and most times there is enough time to use all they have to offer.. make a PvP toon and use him when PvP'n it will save yo alot of frustration .. do a search on eq2 players. for all defilers lvl 70 to 80 .. there are i think 80 ish on nagafen .. then do a search for lvl 71 + and you have 40 .. then look for all lvl 80 .. there are 10 ..  which tells me there are perhaps 30 ish active defilers on nagafen .. in t7-t8 ... that should tell you something.  </p>

silentpsycho
12-17-2007, 08:40 PM
<p>I'm one of those rare "active" T8 pvp defilers on Nagafen.  I can attest to the fact that it's a difficult road, but if you can afford to run a pvp AA spec (INT/AGI/WIS or INT/AGI/STA) instead of your typical raiding spec, you will be much happier while out PVP'ing.  Also, you should not get too discouraged when interrupts stop your spells from casting after 5 "stutters".  Ya, you get to know that mechanic really well.  It can be frustrating, but, you are a fundamentally necessary class in high end content - and rare.  So getting in raids and groups is rarely a problem.</p><p>*edit - the highlight of playing my defiler is when a group says "wow, we couldn't have done that named/epic/whatever without you".  That's what it's all about.</p>

Zacarus
12-17-2007, 08:48 PM
Defiler?  /agree --> don't lock, just run 'em up to 30 (after all, as its been said in this thread, the game starts there, right?).  In fact, you may consider /claim some of those xp boosts, get 'ya there faster.--Zacarus (qeynos)

Yodhey
12-18-2007, 07:33 AM
<p>So yea, I was convinced to play a warden for our group because they want their healer to be overpowered and they want access to ports.  I typically have way too much time to play, so I'll most likely level both classes to 25-30ish and have a better grasp on which suits my style.  I really appreciate all the direction you all have offered and hope to be healing/killing you soon.</p>