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View Full Version : What i would have done to fix the newb getting ganked.


rvc
12-15-2007, 07:50 PM
<p>  I would have removed the ability of titled players to attack players with no title,  sure a non titled can feel free to attack a titled,  and non titleds can attack eachother but Once you reach a title hell by then youve gotten your feet wet, youve ganked a few players here and there gotten a feel for the pvp and picked up some gear and aa.  </p><p>A change like this would allow newbs to get thier feet wet fighting other newbs while they learn the pvp system and allow newbs to not pvp at all and only have to worry about getting owned by other newbs while they gear up for Titled play.</p>

Ze
12-15-2007, 07:56 PM
This game is carebear enough... I think the trick is in removing the incentive, not the ability to attack.

rvc
12-15-2007, 08:20 PM
<p>Perhaps i wasnt clear on what i meant if a non titled attacks a titled the titled can fight back.  Im of the opinion the incentive to attack period is pretty low right now if your goal is to build a decent toon all the way up.</p>

Dreamo
12-15-2007, 08:51 PM
<p><span style="font-size: medium;">NO!</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;">If you think the game is too hard for you on a pvp server you can always reroll on a pve server. Nobody forced you to roll here. It was your own choice. You knew the rules and many people like them as they are. Nobody is going to change it because you got killed by somebody with a title. </span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;">ANd FYI on pve servers you can duel people. And there are no titles. I think you will like it there.</span></p>

rvc
12-15-2007, 09:03 PM
<p>Actually Wolby the only reason i posted this is i think itd be a better solution then forced pvp exp, and why im fighting for that to get changed back is because i liked the pvp the way it was with incentives to pvp as in pvp gear, and earning the faction to get it, and i liked the fact the same grp would hunt me down everynight and id have to avoid them, or try and take the chance of killing one when thier grp mates were too far off. </p><p> The new change is what carebeared this game down because people cant stand the thought of losing so they come here to the boards moan and complain and change the game for the rest of the people on the server.  You  cant blame me for wanting it to change back and offer a suggestion that could really make all sides happy.  Well except meebe the T8s fighting for this change so hard so they can gank folks when they come up.  </p><p>Folks moaning about it being too hard is why they made the recent change, period.</p>

rvc
12-15-2007, 09:08 PM
Another side of the coin is now theres nobody stopping the T8 with the cash to fund a twink as he levels it up from being god at low to mid levels.  Lets see old system id pvp like mad for faction exp take my chances against duos and grn con grps often id lose, but part of the fun of pvp was testing the limits of my toons.  Under the New system i only pvp toons with titles, and only if im sure ill win,  thats the only thing to pvp for anymore titles, and hell thats only when im not at a point i may outlevel my aa exp.  So from where im standing its cut down on pvp.

Muraazi
12-15-2007, 10:30 PM
<p>The only thing is that I could see people not keep titles for the pure advantage of having the first strike. Imagine a group of 6 non titled T8s and the advantage they would have heh.</p><p> I have to agree that taking away some of the incentive was probably the way to go. If the change was only meant to help true newbies, they prolly could have just removed lowbie pvp gear or something. However, the change is in place with exp for pvp, and I actually agree with it. But, the exp gain is alittle extreme. Imo, the exp gain needs to be around 1 to 2 percent and have vitality not count if it is taking that into the forumula for exp gain.</p><p> There are quite a few ways sony can fix the issues people are having atm. Giving AA exp with pvp might work but I dunno.</p>

Winter12345
12-16-2007, 01:20 AM
<p>This is what <i>I</i> think what would balance pvp..</p><p>1. Remove titles and fame increase, these two things are one of the main reasons why people run and attack in groups, to not lose faction or lose their title.</p><p>2.If #1 is removed.. there will still be ganking due to having your pvp ratio (kills:deaths) be perfect..i recommend removing the option of showing your kills and deaths imo so people won't get so fed up about it all the time</p><p>Those two things will cause alot of "threatining to quit" responses to SOE (if enforced) but at least it will tell people to pvp for fun instead of worrying about their title, fame, and ratio, and if gankers gank, they won't get anything.</p><p>These things i think could make the game way more challenging and rewarding</p><p>1. Make pvp armor WAY harder to get... yea i know you need to get 10p and loads of tokens but there are too many people getting the kind of armor which means it is too easy, itself ive already gotten the chest and leg piece for my guardian and i think even though it takes time, they should add something more to have to make it less and less bought by people.(however this could not apply if you don't get any faction anymore)</p><p>2.I was thinking about this.. and it could be 50/50 sad and happy.. make plat harder to get? it is kind of weird how you see lvl 10s walking around with 100p coming from their alts, i mean money has to be challenging to get and the current state seems like it is a normal thing to have loads of plat, either make another kind of coin after platinum and raise the prices or just have it that things are harder to find and making money isnt as easy.. im still thinking about this change though cuz im not entirely sure if I'm putting it right <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>thats all i can think of for now.. some of the things are still a little rusty and i just cant find the right words to say it.. sigh *thinks more*</p>

Superiorxgodz
12-16-2007, 04:56 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>This is what <i>I</i> think what would balance pvp..</p><p>1. Remove titles and fame increase, these two things are one of the main reasons why people run and attack in groups, to not lose faction or lose their title.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">This is a bad decision. If you were to do this, that would mean that people have no reason to pvp. it would solve the reasons for people running but this also means there would be less pvp. The reason there would be less pvp is because over time people would get bored and feel like they are accomplishing nothing. The only reason to kill someone is to say that you killed them, and what does that do? make you have a good feeling in your stomache for a day? after that there is nothing, no rememberance of what happened(like gaining the faction off that person).</span></p><p>2.If #1 is removed.. there will still be ganking due to having your pvp ratio (kills:deaths) be perfect..i recommend removing the option of showing your kills and deaths imo so people won't get so fed up about it all the time</p><p><span style="color: #ff0033;">Same thing as i said in #1.</span></p><p>Those two things will cause alot of "threatining to quit" responses to SOE (if enforced) but at least it will tell people to pvp for fun instead of worrying about their title, fame, and ratio, and if gankers gank, <span style="color: #ff0033;"><span style="color: #009900;">they won't </span><span style="color: #009900;">get anything.</span><span style="color: #ff0033;">(</span>i like his words, although it wont be just gankers, no one will get anything).</span></p><p>These things i think could make the game way more challenging and rewarding <span style="color: #ff0033;">(i dont see were the reward part comes in).</span></p><p>1. Make pvp armor WAY harder to get... yea i know you need to get 10p and loads of tokens but there are too many people getting the kind of armor which means it is too easy, itself ive already gotten the chest and leg piece for my guardian and i think even though it takes time, they should add something more to have to make it less and less bought by people.(however this could not apply if you don't get any faction anymore)</p><p><span style="color: #ff0033;">True for scouts, non scout classess have it hard enough, there are plenty of posts out there doing the math on how long it takes. But you cant make it harder on the scouts, just because they have a skill soe gave them, thats like punishing you for choosing a scout.</span></p><p>2.I was thinking about this.. and it could be 50/50 sad and happy.. make plat harder to get? it is kind of weird how you see lvl 10s walking around with 100p coming from their alts, i mean money has to be challenging to get and the current state seems like it is a normal thing to have loads of plat, either make another kind of coin after platinum and raise the prices or just have it that things are harder to find and making money isnt as easy.. im still thinking about this change though cuz im not entirely sure if I'm putting it right <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p><span style="color: #ff0033;">Practically impossible to make money harder to get, when the game came out, no one had money, now they do. If you made money hard to get eventually what little people have will get around and will keep accumulating through broker transactions, money will always be there and in mass amounts because the more people kill, the more loot they find=more vender trash=more money in the system from venders buying your junk.</span></p><p>thats all i can think of for now.. some of the things are still a little rusty and i just cant find the right words to say it.. sigh <span style="color: #ff0033;">*thinks more* (please do.)</span></p></blockquote>

moonchild1
12-17-2007, 01:40 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>This is what <i>I</i> think what would balance pvp..</p><p>1. Remove titles and fame increase, these two things are one of the main reasons why people run and attack in groups, to not lose faction or lose their title.</p><p>2.If #1 is removed.. there will still be ganking due to having your pvp ratio (kills:deaths) be perfect..i recommend removing the option of showing your kills and deaths imo so people won't get so fed up about it all the time</p><p>Those two things will cause alot of "threatining to quit" responses to SOE (if enforced) but at least it will tell people to pvp for fun instead of worrying about their title, fame, and ratio, and if gankers gank, they won't get anything.</p><p>These things i think could make the game way more challenging and rewarding</p><p>1. Make pvp armor WAY harder to get... yea i know you need to get 10p and loads of tokens but there are too many people getting the kind of armor which means it is too easy, itself ive already gotten the chest and leg piece for my guardian and i think even though it takes time, they should add something more to have to make it less and less bought by people.(however this could not apply if you don't get any faction anymore)</p><p>2.I was thinking about this.. and it could be 50/50 sad and happy.. make plat harder to get? it is kind of weird how you see lvl 10s walking around with 100p coming from their alts, i mean money has to be challenging to get and the current state seems like it is a normal thing to have loads of plat, either make another kind of coin after platinum and raise the prices or just have it that things are harder to find and making money isnt as easy.. im still thinking about this change though cuz im not entirely sure if I'm putting it right <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>thats all i can think of for now.. some of the things are still a little rusty and i just cant find the right words to say it.. sigh *thinks more*</p></blockquote><p>Omg!  Are we even on the same game??  The economy is in shambles, the MC gear is now superior to the PVP and Fabled gear, "rares" are dirt cheap as they are now shoveled onto the broker.  I have gone from earning 10 plat per day to 10 GOLD per day, if that, with my crafting.</p><p>The only thing that is going to be harder to get are the merchant items like mounts.</p><p>Welcome to the world of the easily damaged self-esteem, where every PVPer gets to be uber.  Uhm, if every PVPer is uber, then NONE are uber.</p><p>MOTD:  Welcome to Everquestgrad, Rise of Kommunism, you are all equal here.</p>

moonchild1
12-17-2007, 01:51 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><span style="font-size: medium;">NO!</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;">If you think the game is too hard for you on a pvp server you can always reroll on a pve server. Nobody forced you to roll here. It was your own choice. You knew the rules and many people like them as they are. Nobody is going to change it because you got killed by somebody with a title. </span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;">ANd FYI on pve servers you can duel people. And there are no titles. I think you will like it there.</span></p></blockquote><p>My EXACT opinion Wolby, well spoken.  Maybe a suggestion for SOE to include a pop-up that requires you to "ok" the choice of a PVP server after a fair warning.  </p><p>I ABSOLUTELY cannot understand why peolpe go to a PVP server and then whine and cry over the PVP aspect.  EVERY transplant from WoW I have heard from MUCH prefers (or rather PREFERED) EQ2s PVP system, flawed as it may be (or rather HAS BEEN, now not even that good).  Now EQ2 is trying to become WoW??</p>

Eluzay
12-17-2007, 03:29 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>This is what <i>I</i> think what would balance pvp..</p><p>1. Remove titles and fame increase, these two things are one of the main reasons why people run and attack in groups, to not lose faction or lose their title.</p><p>2.If #1 is removed.. there will still be ganking due to having your pvp ratio (kills:deaths) be perfect..i recommend removing the option of showing your kills and deaths imo so people won't get so fed up about it all the time</p><p>Those two things will cause alot of "threatining to quit" responses to SOE (if enforced) but at least it will tell people to pvp for fun instead of worrying about their title, fame, and ratio, and if gankers gank, they won't get anything.</p><p>These things i think could make the game way more challenging and rewarding</p><p>1. Make pvp armor WAY harder to get... yea i know you need to get 10p and loads of tokens but there are too many people getting the kind of armor which means it is too easy, itself ive already gotten the chest and leg piece for my guardian and i think even though it takes time, they should add something more to have to make it less and less bought by people.(however this could not apply if you don't get any faction anymore)</p><p>2.I was thinking about this.. and it could be 50/50 sad and happy.. make plat harder to get? it is kind of weird how you see lvl 10s walking around with 100p coming from their alts, i mean money has to be challenging to get and the current state seems like it is a normal thing to have loads of plat, either make another kind of coin after platinum and raise the prices or just have it that things are harder to find and making money isnt as easy.. im still thinking about this change though cuz im not entirely sure if I'm putting it right <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>thats all i can think of for now.. some of the things are still a little rusty and i just cant find the right words to say it.. sigh *thinks more*</p></blockquote><p>Omg!  Are we even on the same game??  The economy is in shambles, the MC gear is now superior to the PVP and Fabled gear, "rares" are dirt cheap as they are now shoveled onto the broker.  I have gone from earning 10 plat per day to 10 GOLD per day, if that, with my crafting.</p><p>The only thing that is going to be harder to get are the merchant items like mounts.</p><p>Welcome to the world of the easily damaged self-esteem, where every PVPer gets to be uber.  Uhm, if every PVPer is uber, then NONE are uber.</p><p>MOTD:  Welcome to Everquestgrad, Rise of Kommunism, you are all equal here.</p></blockquote>lol what a funny reply, MC gear is better than pvp gear? hmmm wait til you get to a higher level i guess.I wish we were all stuck in mc, i would give up my legendary and fabled in a heartbeat to have player ability > gear ... and anyone that wants to argue that gear is not much more important than skill then BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Wildfury77
12-17-2007, 03:33 AM
<p>Ssslick this isn't Cuba comrade! MMORPGs reward effort (as does life) - the reason the dude next to u has a better Sword is probably cos he earned it!</p><p>Maybe all the nice cars in my street should be destroyed and replaced with grey Ladas? and whilst we are at it lets remove A and B grade from test papers........</p>

Eluzay
12-17-2007, 04:15 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Ssslick this isn't Cuba comrade! MMORPGs reward effort (as does life) - the reason the dude next to u has a better Sword is probably cos he earned it!</p><p>Maybe all the nice cars in my street should be destroyed and replaced with grey Ladas? and whilst we are at it lets remove A and B grade from test papers........</p></blockquote>I dont  know what your experience base is but the first mmorpg was UO and it was NOT i repeat NOT gear based, you could fully loot people, and when you are lootable you dont take your best out with you, MC (well GM crafted in UO) was the standard wear of the day.  Your effort went into your tactics. I will be honest gear based pvp games are just dumb.  as for compairing the real world to a video game, send me a pm and I will try to help you seek some counceling about your dilusions and your internet addiction problems.give full looting to the game and see how much you want to carry around your uber sword. I have no issue with someone using uber gear, but risk vs reward, if you cant do it with the uber gear then you loose it to your opponent.UO is now a shell of its former glory with insuance etc...in the end the bean counters figured out if they make you spend 3 months to get one piece and you need 6 new pieces then they have you until the next expansion where they put BETTER gear out that you will chase and chase just to be uber. You keep playing and paying... it is buisiness, they have conditioned you to want more, to be better than everyone else. Maybe if everyone had at least somewhat comperable gear/skills there could be some personal pride in being better rather than hiding behind fabled armor/weapons/jewelrythe "gear gap" between MC and fabled is to large. unless full looting is available, then i am all for it because I wouldu rather kill you than raid any day of the week.

Yonaton
12-19-2007, 09:05 AM
Not me. MC with a few regular looted legendaries or fableds. Too much bs in trying to be "uber" IMO. Pvp is fun live or die,at any tier. No matter what you're wearing honestly. As far as the fame I could care less. I've got one dessy,one slayer now(had three and a hunter) and that's it. I could lose any of those stupid titles(or all) tomorrow and not care a whit. And that,is no lie. I hate the title system with a passion,tbh. But others like it so I'm not crusading against it. As it sits right now tho,the MC is better than the fabled. It's better than the legendary on lvl on all my toons. I stripped off the legendary armor on my 43 and put him in all MC just because of that. Blood's actually got a good point about the economy tho. My earnings from crafting,from looting to sell and harvesting have been in the pot for a couple months. Its a banner day to make 50 gold honestly.

Kulharr
12-19-2007, 02:30 PM
Considering this change was implemented without actually testing it on the test server "as there is no pvp on test center" and was implemented on the basis of complaining as opposed to actual logical feedback and debate to try an appeas all sides on this issue.SOE either needs to remove it and make changes and let us actually test it on a tets server, or work to quickly balanced out this before the pvp servers lose numerous current players that may never return.Basicly there are three sides of this debate.-Newer players from the PVE server who are encountering mass twinkage from low-level locked players and cannot compete and just get whallopped again... Though techincally if they locked from 10-20 and did the Kunark quests they would realize that was all that was required to compete against low tier twinks in pvp... But that's a seperate issue.-Players who have combat xp disabled like myself who are casual pve/pvp and like to strike a balance of both, to see all content, do as many quests as I can and keep my AA's near the range of my level... While equally engaging in pvp along the way, as of now this playstyle is no longer viable, as killing players yields an emmense ammount of XP that one who activly enages in pvp will be forced to remove more then half the quests from their journal that have become obsolete and miss out on a lot of rewards and aa.-Hardcore pvper's who level locked for the purpose of pvp rewards and quite simply, heavy duty pvp. No longer an option, their playstyle was instantly killed despite their time an effort they put into there character so they could rock at pvp. This playstyle was nessecary to earn pvp rewards, if you did not do this you would never be able to use pvp rewards. I mean come on, 600 kills just to use the level 20 pvp rewards? And people were surprised by the fact that players were level locking and doing a mass-gank campaign? That was the only way to get pvp rewards, it was a flawed system.-No impact at all on players who play with combat experience enabled, they're opinion could go either way I suppose.So essentially, 1 playstyle was favored over 2 popular playstyles, due to catering to newbie complaining as opposed to a logical debate and change to fix the problem in a way all sides could agree on, rather then further dividing the community, going through a back n forth flame war and many players quiting or on strike over it. So what can we do?-Make pvp rewards require less faction or make players start with 0 faction as opposed to the ridiculous -10000, that would cut the ammount of kills needed for pvp rewards by more then half. Maybe 200 kills would be needed for lvl 20 rewards. 400 for 40, 600 for 60... Numbers are currently double or triple that in some cases.-Make it so combat experience from pvp yields a very small ammount 1%, maybe 2% at the absolute most. And make tier, level and vitality completely irrelevant, it should be a static ammount so players interested in pvp rewards are not specificly targeting greens and blues. This will make sure that low tier pvp isn't rushed through by high xp value, while slowing down more and more through each tier. There is currently an experience giant rate of 10-15% xp per kill in tier 2 alone and that is completely unnacceptable. Tier 2 pvp will be over in a heart beat. This way if a player chooses a strict focus on pvp, the time taken through each tier will be relativly balanced and impacted more by pve. -Perhaps a gain the same ammount of earned experience in AA as well, so that players don't feel they HAVE to do pve in order to compete in pvp as is currently the case. So say, 1% combat xp per pvp kill gives a 1% AA per kill. An alternative to this acan be found below.These numbers I am quoting above are subject to debate, but based on player feedback that seems to be the average recommended numbers a lot of people have been mentioning, and I agree with it that these are fair values.-Finally, put a bit of effort in and actually develop the PVP system so there is more too it quite frankly, so it's not all just about running around ganking and killing. Make pvp quests, events, missions, bounties, that players can aquire in their own cities with objectives scattered througout zones that are on par with the level of the objectives, as well as many that involve paying a visit inside of enemy cities... Have these types of things award faction, fame and AA "perhaps AA could be substitude here instead of in combat, where killing a player might give you 1% combat experience, completeting a pvp mission, quest, event, bounty or whatever could give you some AA, along with faction and fame, but no combat experience" This would actually give pvp'ers something more to do and provide a more actual "war" envrionment, rather then just players running around ganking each other with no other objectives.... But please NO battlegrounds, pvp and such missions should always be open world.There, these are my recommendations and have been also made by many other players. I wont be able to comment any further, my suscription is ending on the 15th so I wont be able to post anymore... if these concerns are addressed then I shall return to EQ2 along with a number of my friends... If not well then it looks like I'll be looking to the future for the next good MMORPG, where logic and everyones point of view and playstyle is taken into consideration when making drastic changes, the favoring of one paticular playstyle over another based on the fact of how many people can whine more has killed MMORPG's in the past in my eyes, specificly UO was one of them.Perhaps these changes will make all sides happy and greatly improve the current pvp system, rather then thrusting a 2 second un-tested change on the server without addressing many concerns just to see what happens. Creative and innovative solutions can fix the problem and make everyone happy, rather then making half the community happy while the other half is now flipping out, much like before this change except we were on opposite sides of the specturm.

ulleulle
12-20-2007, 12:02 AM
No fame/faction from t2 kills.. New pvp gear from 34+ Allow locking from 30+ like mentioned earlier in other posts. Adjust faction cost/start value. Adjust xp pr pvp kill. Maybe make newbi zones around the two main city's "sunken city,oakmyst forrest E.T.C" into 2 lvl pvp range..rest should stay as they are. Ingame mails to all newly made characters explaining about pvp and with links to the excellent pvp guide's on this very forum. Ohh fix rez zerging aswell <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /> Had to throw that in aswell I Hope some of this will do the trick .Or atleast spark a few ideas in somebody elses head.. memo to self -->Bang head against the wall and tell yourself not to be crazy .. Cheers

Swifthand
12-20-2007, 04:49 AM
<cite>rvc wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>  I would have removed the ability of titled players to attack players with no title,  sure a non titled can feel free to attack a titled,  and non titleds can attack eachother but Once you reach a title hell by then youve gotten your feet wet, youve ganked a few players here and there gotten a feel for the pvp and picked up some gear and aa.  </p><p>A change like this would allow newbs to get thier feet wet fighting other newbs while they learn the pvp system and allow newbs to not pvp at all and only have to worry about getting owned by other newbs while they gear up for Titled play.</p></blockquote><p>Personally I don't like that idea and I'm a noob to eq2's pvp. Here's my mentality on fighting ranked players. When I see a ranked scout or caster coming for me, my eyes light up in anticipation and determination to win even more than it does when fighting somoene with no rank. My adrenaline runs even faster and I try to focus and concentrate within my ability to win the fight. When I defeat a ranked player, I feel a sense of satisfaction and consider it an accomplishment because I know the slayer, champion, or whatever the title my opponent has is comlpetely decked out in fabled,mastercrafted, and legendary gear with full max aa's for his level.</p><p>On the other hand, If I lose to a ranked guy 3-4 levels lower than me, I tell myself there's nothing I could do because he's more experienced, better equipped, and has more aa's than me.</p><p>Now, If I lose against a non ranked pvp noob such as myself within the same level, I get extremely upset. Normally I don't try as hard when fighting against someone I underestimate.</p><p>I know one day I'll be ranked with nice pvp gear and full aa's for my level. And just like many of you, I'll happily go after those non ranked noobs for some cheap kills and fame. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  But as of now, I'm enjoying pvp even though I get killed by ppl 4 levels lower then me lol.</p><p>So, I dont think the rules should change the way you suggest. It would only bring more carebears in which will be a bad thing cause after a while you'll see the pvp servers become like the rp servers.</p>

ulleulle
12-20-2007, 11:26 AM
<p>Personally I don't like that idea and I'm a noob to eq2's pvp. Here's my mentality on fighting ranked players. When I see a ranked scout or caster coming for me, my eyes light up in anticipation and determination to win even more than it does when fighting somoene with no rank. My adrenaline runs even faster and I try to focus and concentrate within my ability to win the fight. When I defeat a ranked player, I feel a sense of satisfaction and consider it an accomplishment because I know the slayer, champion, or whatever the title my opponent has is comlpetely decked out in fabled,mastercrafted, and legendary gear with full max aa's for his level.</p><p>On the other hand, If I lose to a ranked guy 3-4 levels lower than me, I tell myself there's nothing I could do because he's more experienced, better equipped, and has more aa's than me.</p><p>Now, If I lose against a non ranked pvp noob such as myself within the same level, I get extremely upset. Normally I don't try as hard when fighting against someone I underestimate.</p><p>I know one day I'll be ranked with nice pvp gear and full aa's for my level. And just like many of you, I'll happily go after those non ranked noobs for some cheap kills and fame. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" />  But as of now, I'm enjoying pvp even though I get killed by ppl 4 levels lower then me lol.</p><p>So, I dont think the rules should change the way you suggest. It would only bring more carebears in which will be a bad thing cause after a while you'll see the pvp servers become like the rp servers.</p>-----------------------------------------------------------<span style="color: #006600;">Coulden't have put it any better myself..If only more people would have your kind of mentality,maybe then we woulden't be in this situation ..And especially if sony made the changes to the faction/fame in t2 like i have mentioned earlier.cheers ,,</span>

Csky
12-24-2007, 12:40 AM
<p>i think if a high level ganks a low level they shouldnt suffer a death on thier record and also if they get ganked while PVEing they shouldnt suffer a stats death</p><p>while that wouldnt stop the people from ganking newbs it would make the new people feel less discouraged and not want to quit the game or delete when they have 900 deaths and  54 kills</p><p>people gank low levels and newbs because its easy stats on thier [Removed for Content]title but it also chases away the new customers and without new customers the server will eventually die</p><p>the new people stand no chance against these people 6 levels higher that run around with every single advantage....those are the carebears imo, the ones that cant PVP on equal ground and only engage situations they cant possibly lose..most of them run away from a fair fight</p>

Spyderbite
12-24-2007, 02:55 AM
We still having this conversation? T2 and T3 PvP has been a blast these past few weeks. Those that think otherwise.. adapt or good riddance. Started a newb alt just to see.. all fights have been fair and fun.. and surprisingly.. or not so much... lacked the humiliation of a corpse hump or tea bag after a 3 second kill.Its all good here.. no need to adjust anything. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Csky
12-24-2007, 12:23 PM
<p>i guess it depends on what you think fair is..ive found ONE person to fight my own level  and that was a stealther i initiated the attack on lol..the rest were higher level</p><p>/shrug i guess people dont attack people unless they are green or blue ..i have yet to be attacked by someone my own level on the server and im a noob :O</p><p> the best part is being ganked by someone 7 levels higher with his friend when i pull a heroic gnoll zerg with a friend then them /laughing when we die</p><p>i was the one laughing actually at how big of cowards people can really be..was the gnoll zerg on thier side neccessary to win at 7 level diffrence ? lol</p>

Spyderbite
12-24-2007, 02:21 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>Considering this change was implemented without actually testing it on the test server "as there is no pvp on test center" and was implemented on the basis of complaining as opposed to actual logical feedback and debate to try an appeas all sides on this issue.</blockquote>Wrong.PvP logs were analyzed, player's KvD ratios were looked at and I believe that developers even logged in to the PvP servers as newbs to experience the new player experience for them selves.Contrary to belief.. the changes were not implemented due to complaining on the forums. The complaints were simply investigated and as a result addressed.May seem unfair to a handful of people. But, if you look at objectively. Its far more fair than the hundreds of new players that have been turned away at the door when all they wanted to do was play the game with risk of PvP and the fun of the fight.

Mighty Melvor
12-24-2007, 08:45 PM
<p>What I would have done...</p><p>1.  The AA PvP cap could have gotten a severe beat down.  Contrary to many people's assumptions about T2 locking.  It was not the illusive fabled T2 gear that twinked players, it was the ridiculously high AA that they farmed at low levels.  Druids with immunity root, predators with intoxication etc..etc.. in T2 was ridiculous.  No new player had a prayer.  There was SOME gear that was quested/looted which helped, yes, but the AA whoring that was going on in T2 made some classes GODS.</p><p>2.  There were some ideas floating around the forums which had promise.  I know some people wanted to tag them 'carebear', but they did show promise.  Carnaging opposing factions in newbie areas was one.  Making the PvP range based on player level not zone was another (all players would be susceptable to a higher level PvP spread above them than below).  The list goes on...</p><p>I wasn't a fan of the change when it took place, but was very pleased that they didn't eliminate locking altogether (can still PvE).</p><p>Lately though, hearing all the doomsayers in-game and in the forums has changed my mind.  I'm glad they beat the twinkers  down.  I used to think the newbies were all carebear, but geesh, the crying twinkers could not be more pathetic in their unending pleas that will forever fall on deaf SOE ears.</p>

Swifthand
12-29-2007, 07:09 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>Considering this change was implemented without actually testing it on the test server "as there is no pvp on test center" and was implemented on the basis of complaining as opposed to actual logical feedback and debate to try an appeas all sides on this issue.</blockquote><p>Wrong.PvP logs were analyzed, player's KvD ratios were looked at and I believe that developers even logged in to the PvP servers as newbs to experience the new player experience for them selves.</p><p><b><span style="font-size: small;">Life is rough as a newb on pvp servers. If you dont have at least adept 1's, full treasured gear + a couple mastercrafted gear for your level, YOU WILL DIE DIE AND DIE SOME MORE until either you quit or are forced to buy plat online just to compete with the level locked fully aa'ed, super twinked with fabled/mastercrafted  level 20's.</span></b> </p><p>Contrary to belief.. the changes were not implemented due to complaining on the forums. The complaints were simply investigated and as a result addressed.</p><p><b><span style="font-size: small;">I'm not one to complain, but the changes probably aren't gonna be enough for the average person wanting to try out a pvp server. As soon as these noobs to pvp hit level 13-16ish, they will get a fresh dose of how quick these super twinked fully aae'd will own their face. Most of these people will quit before reaching level 20 due to no patience and no desire to purchase plat online just to compete with these super twinked alt level lockers. </span></b> </p><p>May seem unfair to a handful of people. But, if you look at objectively. Its far more fair than the hundreds of new players that have been turned away at the door when all they wanted to do was play the game with risk of PvP and the fun of the fight.</p><p><b><span style="font-size: small;">Your exactly right. At least half of these same new players who wanted to experience a nice fun pvp experience will quit as soon as they realize their noobcake level 17 "any class" is NO MATCH to a level 13 super twinked level locker. These same level lockers go out of their way to grief noob players for what? Because it makes them feel good,,, *down there*</span></b> <b><span style="font-size: small;">to azz [Removed for Content] people they know have no chance of even hitting them once???? </span></b></p></blockquote><p>Honestly, I'm still a noob to the whole pvp world, but I'm one of the few noobs that is learning to adapt to the server. Levels 10-22 were very frustrating to say the least. My kills vs deaths was like 6 kills and 20 deaths because I couldnt' compete against anyone even 3-4 levels lower than me because 90% were all locked super twinked alts. But, I worked my little fairy tale off on harvesting rares to sell so i could buy some adequate armor and adept spells that my guild didn't provide for me. Now my Fury is level 32 and I do fairly well in pvp, even though ranked upper 20's still give me a run for my money. Its taken a few weeks, but I find myself winning alot more pvp fights then I was going through the growing pains.</p><p>I would love to see level locking stopped. In EQ 1, you couldnt gin aa points until level 50,,,thats right, (((50))) But here it's been changed to level 10??? lol at first I was like WOW, AWESOME!! Until i realized people used this to their advantage. U can still level lock because your stilla ble to acquire aa's 1.5 x your level. Obviously noobs just starting out wont realize this until their 20's. And we all know level (((20))) noobs usually are wearing crap gear, "unless they are smart enough to quest in TD, and they have mostly app 1-2 spells with maybe 10 aa's, whereas your locked level 20 will have max useable aa's for his level, (((30))) full mastercrafted and fabled gear with full adept 3's and even master 1's making his level 20 character like 5x more powerful than the newbs.</p><p>Which brings me to my point. How exactly is this more fair, friend??  All joking and sarcasm aside, I believe useable aa's should be reduced to 1 per level until you reach level 50. That will stop EVERYONE from level locking just to gain a crazy insane advantage in pvp. </p><p>Now, I hear some of these level lockers stating they mainly lock so they can experience all the great content at a slow pace. Well, fine, you guys can still disable combat exp all you like to "experience content slowly" but after you earn 1 aa point for that level, you would still be allowed to allocate experience points but once u hit 99% exp while int he same level, you wont be able to allocate another point until your character levels.</p><p>This will definitely make pvp mor fair in the lower tiers, but of course the whinny waaa waaaa level lockers will complain and threaten to leave because their super twinked characters can now be beaten by nooooobs who happen to be 2 levels higher than them <b><span style="font-size: medium;">OH NOEZZZ!!!!!!   </span></b></p>

Csky
12-30-2007, 03:39 AM
<p>i dont like the idea of no AAs till high level..my highest char on PVP server is only level 25 and its a char i put alot of work and effort into so far to be competitve</p><p>its my first PVP char in EQ</p><p>i think it would be boring to just level and level with no rewards or sense of accomplishment, ive been playing mmporpgs for 9 years and the thrill of leveling constantly is and has been gone for a long time</p><p>i really like the new system because i can choose to turn off exp and make my char stronger while casualy questing and having occasional PVP..yet people who earn alot of AAs and PVP at the same time cannot continue to stay in that tier without leveling out so they cant farm people</p><p>i think without the AA system while leveling  ida lost interest in the game</p>

Spyderbite
12-30-2007, 04:12 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>This will definitely make pvp mor fair in the lower tiers, but of course the whinny waaa waaaa level lockers will complain and threaten to leave because their super twinked characters can now be beaten by nooooobs who happen to be 2 levels higher than them <b><span style="font-size: medium;">OH NOEZZZ!!!!!!   </span></b></p></blockquote>In one paragraph, you've managed to sum up why this is such a dramatic issue for a few people. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Raznor2
12-30-2007, 05:09 AM
<cite>rvc wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>  I would have removed the ability of titled players to attack players with no title,  sure a non titled can feel free to attack a titled,  and non titleds can attack eachother but Once you reach a title hell by then youve gotten your feet wet, youve ganked a few players here and there gotten a feel for the pvp and picked up some gear and aa.  </p><p>A change like this would allow newbs to get thier feet wet fighting other newbs while they learn the pvp system and allow newbs to not pvp at all and only have to worry about getting owned by other newbs while they gear up for Titled play.</p></blockquote><p>I'd get all the t2 people together, then get em good and drunk, strip em down to their loincloths, blind fold them, give em nerf bats and let them loose on the top floor of Kelethin.  Last one standing gets "dreadnaught." and a complimentary set of t3 mastercrafted for a good bonvoyage to tier 3. </p><p> ~Raithan</p>

Shangu
12-30-2007, 01:00 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>We still having this conversation? T2 and T3 PvP has been a blast these past few weeks. Those that think otherwise.. adapt or good riddance. Started a newb alt just to see.. all fights have been fair and fun.. and surprisingly.. or not so much... lacked the humiliation of a corpse hump or tea bag after a 3 second kill.Its all good here.. no need to adjust anything. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>Pure lies to defend a change that does nothing to help anyone in any way.  Nagafen in the lower tiers is absolutely not even close to what it was before.  Anyone who says otherwise is a pure liar, plain and simple.

Sightless
12-30-2007, 07:52 PM
<cite>Shangu wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>We still having this conversation? T2 and T3 PvP has been a blast these past few weeks. Those that think otherwise.. adapt or good riddance. Started a newb alt just to see.. all fights have been fair and fun.. and surprisingly.. or not so much... lacked the humiliation of a corpse hump or tea bag after a 3 second kill.Its all good here.. no need to adjust anything. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15"></blockquote>Pure lies to defend a change that does nothing to help anyone in any way.  Nagafen in the lower tiers is absolutely not even close to what it was before.  Anyone who says otherwise is a pure liar, plain and simple.</blockquote>That's because a very large portion of those low levels are out on their high levels enjoying Ruins of Kunark. The PvP populations have actually gone up since the change.

Eriis
12-31-2007, 08:25 PM
<cite>rvc wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>  I would have removed the ability of titled players to attack players with no title,  sure a non titled can feel free to attack a titled,  and non titleds can attack eachother but Once you reach a title hell by then youve gotten your feet wet, youve ganked a few players here and there gotten a feel for the pvp and picked up some gear and aa.  </p><p>A change like this would allow newbs to get thier feet wet fighting other newbs while they learn the pvp system and allow newbs to not pvp at all and only have to worry about getting owned by other newbs while they gear up for Titled play.</p></blockquote>I have a simpler solution - When you roll a character on a PvP server, Be given a PvP tutorial which CANNOT be exited Unless you have already viewed it once on your station account - Then you are given the option to toggle it on and off, seems very simple to me. If you don't pay attention to the video/Tutorial then tough [Removed for Content], it's your problem from their on.