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View Full Version : Kunzar charmed mob dps: Screenshots & facts about disabilng strike


Izzypop
12-14-2007, 05:31 AM
<p><span style="font-size: medium;">The source of the freakish charmed mob DPS in Kunzar jungle is when they use the combat art disabling strike</span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;">I took screenshots of the disabling strike debuff when it was on me.  I did this with both a level 74 mob and level 76 mob in both PVE and PVP.  THe base damage is fixed and goes up when the mob is charmed.</span></p><p><img src="http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f255/LokiLaughs2much/graph.jpg" alt="" width="800" height="500" border="0" /> </p><p><span style="font-size: medium;">Here are some screenshots of the damage done by these mobs. </span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;">Charmed Level 74 Green Con solo mob vhs level 80 Guardian</span></p><p><img src="http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f255/LokiLaughs2much/kz1.jpg" alt="" width="755" height="800" border="0" /></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;">Charmed Level 74 Green Con solo mob vhs level 80 Guardian</span></p><p><img src="http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f255/LokiLaughs2much/kz2.jpg" alt="" width="800" height="791" border="0" /></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;">Screenshot of Disabling strike and it's base damage in PVP.  Damage is  a level 74 green con charmed solo mob vhs an 80 Guardian</span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><img src="http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f255/LokiLaughs2much/kz3.jpg" alt="" width="619" height="800" border="0" /></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;">PVE damage of said level 74 green no arrow solo mob</span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><img src="http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f255/LokiLaughs2much/kz4.jpg" alt="" width="626" height="800" border="0" /> </span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;">Level 76 Blue con no arrow solo mob.</span></p><p><img src="http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f255/LokiLaughs2much/kz5.jpg" alt="" width="499" height="800" border="0" /></p><p>DPS from disabling strike seems to be a fixed # against your mitigation.</p><p>Parses vhs specific mitigations from the level 74 Green con mob vhs and 80 Guardian.</p><p>6511/63% Mitigation=6404 damage</p><p>53.2% mitigation=7012 damage</p><p>49.9% mitigation=7325</p><p>3208/46.3% mitigation=7578</p><p>2631 mitigation/41.5%=7921 damage</p><p>DPS disabling strike from a level 76 solo no arrow mob</p><p>Charmed vhs 53.2% mitigation=7475</p><p>PVE damage vhs 53.2% mitigation=1165</p><p><span style="font-size: x-small;">PS thanks Pett from Onyx.  He got together with me on vent to experiment with disabling strike and figure out all the details.</span></p>

Dreamo
12-14-2007, 06:21 AM
<p>Rippy, this is a very constructive post. Thanks for taking time to write it with all the screenies. Because fixing this bug will benefit all of us. From myself I would like to add that this bug is being exploited in the most sever way on Nagafen atm. The news of the one shot pets spread far accros the coercers community and at any time there are several coercers (some of them are as low as lvl 65) camping the city of Jinisk with charmed iksar pets.</p><p>Hopefully our Moderators will bring this post to the Developers attention. The information here seems to be exhaustive to see that there is a need for a fix.</p>

Suelothvar
12-14-2007, 10:25 AM
Great info, but the comment above "info spread far amongst the coercer comunity" makes me chuckle inside, not hard to spread far when there's hardly anyone to spread too <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" />Starting to wonder what problem is tbh, as I may just be bugged, but everytime I cast a dispel on myself, the charm breaks... so why don't people just dispel the coercer, then laugh as his pet eats him ?

WasFycksir
12-14-2007, 10:26 AM
<p>It figures, there actually was a downside to locking my (47) coercer.</p><p>Maybe with potions I can level up before they fix this....</p><p>All kidding aside, they need to fix this, but I do wish I had a chance to use some of this fun stuff.</p><p>Seems like the got the multiplier reversed how ever they do that.  They X the pet strength instead of / the pet strength.</p><p>More superior quality control and testing, but what are you going to do, there are candy-cane quests to build.</p>

seejester
12-14-2007, 11:54 AM
<span style="font-size: small;color: #00ff00;">Excellent post!!! It's this type of logical argument, backed with clear evidence, with a clear, well-written post that's convinced me to return to the forums, /bow to OP.Seems to me there was simply a typo when PvP damage was entered for that spell, like a dev hit an extra digit on the keyboard accidentally and didn't realize it. Though coercers are on my side and this doesn't affect me personally, I agree 100% this should be fixed asap. Seems to me it should be a simple matter of putting the cursor behind that extra digit and hitting BACKSPACE hehe...</span>

sokil
12-14-2007, 12:31 PM
Nice post.  Wish this would be fixed and quickly.

Amphibia
12-14-2007, 12:34 PM
Thanks for posting this Rippy! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />I'm adding a screenie to show what these pets will do to you if you're a clothy. It will oneshot you - almost twice! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /><img src="http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/myrtelolaf/calek.jpg" alt="" border="0" />It hit for 9497. My toon has 5493 total HP.... lol

Raidyen
12-14-2007, 02:21 PM
<p> Great post.  Actual facts on these forums, which is a rare thing.  Going to be positive and say SoE will most likely fix this by GU42, sometime in January.</p>

Roald
12-14-2007, 04:39 PM
<p>Thought I might aswell add my findings: </p><p><img src="http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/922/eq2001003xx6.jpg" alt="" width="417" height="60" border="0" /></p><p>Against a level 77 wizard, mit around 38% i think.</p>

Urgol
12-14-2007, 04:58 PM
im dissapointed..due to rok delay on my server (localisation..eh, kinda sucks) i wont level a coercer high enough before the fix..

Bloodfa
12-14-2007, 05:34 PM
Very nicely put together, and extremely informative.  Hopefully this will be addressed very quickly.

Izzypop
12-14-2007, 07:40 PM
<p>As an aditional side note: It's not  difficult for a coercer to maintain charm on these mobs.  </p><p>When charm breaks the mob reverts back to it's PVE damage.</p><p>So when a pet breaks charm here is what happens to disabling strike.</p><p><span style="color: #00cc00;">10948 PvP damage goes down to 1922 PvE damage for a green con level 74 mob when it breaks charm.  </span></p><p><span style="color: #00cc00;">Damage to the coercer should be less than 1500 after cloth mitigation</span></p><p><span style="color: #3300ff;">11446 PvP damage goes down to 2065 PvE damage for a blue con level 76 mob when it breaks charm</span></p><p><span style="color: #3300ff;">Damage to the coercer should be less than 1500 after cloth mitigation</span></p><p>Coercers can not be 1 shoted by their own pet when it breaks loose.</p>

silentpsycho
12-14-2007, 07:56 PM
<p>wait... you mean if I level my paper armored free token dispenser coercer alt to 80 *and* find an ultra rare master version of his charm, he might be able to kill someone...?  say it isn't so. omg.  </p><p>you know, someone could very easily post some screen shots of what a button mash class like a ranger or swashy can do in the same amount of time, with less risk and lower quality abilities; and you know what, they can do it any where, any time regardless of what mobs are around, and wear armor that rivals plate in effectivenss, get track, evac, run speed, etc. ...</p><p> *edit - missed an important step</p>

Roald
12-14-2007, 11:02 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>wait... you mean if I level my paper armored free token dispenser coercer alt to 80 *and* find an ultra rare master version of his charm, he might be able to kill someone...?  say it isn't so. omg.  </p></blockquote><p>Coercers are more than capable of killing anyone in their level range even without any pet.</p><p>This needs to be toned down. Cutting it by 50% would be fair.</p>

Izzypop
12-15-2007, 02:43 AM
<p><span style="font-size: medium;color: #cc00ff;"><b>Coecers don't need a nerf.</b></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;color: #cc00ff;"><b>Nothing with coercers needs to be nerfed.</b></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;color: #cc00ff;"><b>Disabling strike is what needs to be fixed.</b></span></p><p><img src="http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f255/LokiLaughs2much/graph.jpg" alt="" width="800" height="500" border="0" /></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;color: #cc00ff;"><b>Most Combat arts do about 75% of their PVE damage in PVP</b></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;color: #cc00ff;"><b>Disabling strike is doing over 500% of it's PVE damage in PVP</b></span></p><p><b><span style="font-size: medium;color: #cc00ff;">This should not be that hard to fix.</span></b></p>

Eybietie
12-15-2007, 10:05 AM
yeah what did soe think about creating such moves?i mean not only does a blue con solo mob hit me ( <u>wearing plate</u>! )for like 1k but he also got to snare you for 45%...

Roald
12-15-2007, 10:38 AM
<cite>Izzypop wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><span style="font-size: medium;color: #cc00ff;"><b>Most Combat arts do about 75% of their PVE damage in PVP</b></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;color: #cc00ff;"><b>Disabling strike is doing over 500% of it's PVE damage in PVP</b></span></p><p><b><span style="font-size: medium;color: #cc00ff;">This should not be that hard to fix.</span></b></p></blockquote>I don't think this should be reduced to 75% of the PvE value in PvP. M1 charm should make a pet hit harder. Obviously anything above 4-5k is insane and shud be nerfed. But not to 75% of the PvE value.

Amphibia
12-15-2007, 10:49 AM
Easy fix: Make iksar uncharmable, at least until they've found a way to fix this properly. And the suggested 50% damage nerf would not be enough, because then it will still oneshot clothies. Gotto take that into consideration, too.

Izzypop
12-15-2007, 06:45 PM
<p><span style="font-size: medium;color: #ffff00;">The following screenshots are of the t8 big hitters.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;color: #ffff00;"><b>Damage is very low because they are adept1's being viewed by a 19 bruiser.</b></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;color: #ffff00;">The PVE to PVP reduction ratio will be the same as if a master 1 were being used by a raid geared 80</span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;color: #ffff00;">The base damage will just be a lot lot higher</span></p><p><img src="http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f255/LokiLaughs2much/adept1s.jpg" alt="" width="800" height="630" border="0" /></p><p><img src="http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f255/LokiLaughs2much/pvpad1.jpg" alt="" width="800" height="614" border="0" /></p><p><span style="font-size: x-large;color: #ffff00;">Here is how they scale down from PVE to PVP</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="color: #00ffff;"><span style="color: #ffff00;">Execute</span> 7150-11906 PVE</span> <span style="color: #ff0000;"> 2351-4207 PVP</span> <span style="color: #ffff00;">PvP does 33%min-35% max of PVE damage</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="color: #ffff00;">Death Blow<20% health</span> <span style="color: #00ffff;">2984-4973 PVE</span> <span style="color: #ff0000;">1989-3115 PVP </span><span style="color: #ffff00;">PvP does 63%/min-66%max of PVE damage</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="color: #ffff00;">Mortal Blade</span> <span style="color: #00ffff;">3192-5309 PVE </span><span style="color: #ff0000;">1435-2381 PVP</span> <span style="color: #ffff00;">PVP does 45% of PVE damage</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="color: #ffff00;">Death Touch</span> <span style="color: #00ffff;">2664-4440 PVE</span><span style="color: #00ffff;"> </span><span style="color: #cc0000;">1705-2842 PVP</span> <span style="color: #ffff00;">PVP does 64% of PVE damage</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="color: #ffff00;">Fission</span> <span style="color: #00ffff;">4311-7185 PVE</span><span style="color: #33ffff;"> 3449-</span><span style="color: #ff0000;">5736 PVP</span> <span style="color: #ffff00;">PvP does 80% of PVE damage</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="color: #ffff00;">Upheaval</span> <span style="color: #00ffff;">1916-3193 PVE</span><span style="color: #00ffcc;"> </span><span style="color: #ff0000;">1533-2355 PVP</span>  <span style="color: #ffff00;">PVP does 80%/min-73%/max of PVE damage</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="color: #ffff00;">Bolt of Ice </span><span style="color: #00ffff;">3012-5593 PVE</span><span style="color: #00ffff;"> </span><span style="color: #ff0000;">1742-3235 PVP </span><span style="color: #ffff00;">PVP does 58% of PVE damage</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="color: #ffff00;">Sniper Arrow </span><span style="color: #00ffff;">5322-8858 PVE</span><span style="color: #00ffff;"> </span><span style="color: #ff0000;">2619-4354 PVP</span>  <span style="color: #ffff00;">PVP does 49% of PVE damage</span></span></p><p><img src="http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f255/LokiLaughs2much/graph.jpg" alt="" width="800" height="500" border="0" /></p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="color: #ffff00;">Level 74 Mob</span><span style="color: #00ffff;"> PVE damage 1972</span> <span style="color: #ff0000;">PVP damage 10948 </span><span style="color: #ffff00;">PVP does 555% of PVE damage</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="color: #ffff00;">Level 76 Mob</span> <span style="color: #00ffff;">PVE damage 2065 </span><span style="color: #ff0000;">PVP damage 11446 </span><span style="color: #ffff00;">PVP does 554% of PVE damage</span></span></p>

Dreamo
12-15-2007, 08:58 PM
<p>It is so funny how execute does more damage than sniper shot in pve but less damage in pvp.</p>

tequiero
12-17-2007, 03:43 PM
RIPPY MY HERO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sightless
12-18-2007, 06:50 PM
<b>This needs fixes ASAP.</b> Have you noticed the amount of bugs Qeynos has had to suffer this expansion? Yet Freeps benefit? Couldn't evac in Fens of Nathsar, but freeps could, one shotting pets, freeps being immune to attack in the various RoK zones, et cetera, et cetera.

Sightless
12-18-2007, 06:50 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>It is so funny how execute does more damage than sniper shot in pve but less damage in pvp.</p></blockquote>You'll get execute off more often than a Ranger will get sniper shot off.

Izzypop
12-19-2007, 03:05 PM
<p>It's a moot point when both execute and sniper shot do 1/3 the damage of disabling strike in pvp. </p><p> And disabling strike is on a 10 to 20 second recast timer.</p>

Conavar
12-20-2007, 01:19 AM
Less QQ imo, lets see here Coercers without a pet have to get beat on for them to do any decent damage, they don't have anything like mana shield, they don't have big nukes or other big hitting abilities. What they do have is a pet that is only in a few zones in the entire game that can one shot people, and you are all crying about it? Think about how many times they have had been one shot but rangers or totally [Removed for Content] by a swashy, this can happen to them in ANY zone but you are all crying because they are able to it to you in a couple new zones, [Removed for Content] with this crap. Now if they were able to zone with these pets then yes that would be a problem but they can't so stop the [Removed for Content] already.

Izzypop
12-20-2007, 05:18 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>Less QQ imo, lets see here Coercers without a pet have to get beat on for them to do any decent damage, they don't have anything like mana shield, they don't have big nukes or other big hitting abilities. What they do have is a pet that is only in a few zones in the entire game that can one shot people, and you are all crying about it? Think about how many times they have had been one shot but rangers or totally [I cannot control my vocabulary] by a swashy, this can happen to them in ANY zone but you are all crying because they are able to it to you in a couple new zones, [Removed for Content] with this crap. Now if they were able to zone with these pets then yes that would be a problem but they can't so stop the [I cannot control my vocabulary] already.</blockquote><p>Are you trying to say that this kind of PVP damage is ok?</p><p>Are you tying to say that coercers deserve to do this king of pvp damage because of past wrongdonigs at the hands of scouts?</p><p>Do you play in Qeynos?  </p><p>Do you realize Kunzar is usually camped by multiple coercers?</p><p>Do you realize that level 66 Coercers are charming level 74 solo mobs and 1 shoting level 80s?</p><p><img src="http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f255/LokiLaughs2much/graph.jpg" border="0" alt="" width="800" height="500" /></p>

sprogn
12-20-2007, 07:21 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>Less QQ imo, lets see here Coercers without a pet have to get beat on for them to do any decent damage, they don't have anything like mana shield, they don't have big nukes or other big hitting abilities. What they do have is a pet that is only in a few zones in the entire game that can one shot people, and you are all crying about it? Think about how many times they have had been one shot but rangers or totally [I cannot control my vocabulary] by a swashy, this can happen to them in ANY zone but you are all crying because they are able to it to you in a couple new zones, [Removed for Content] with this crap. Now if they were able to zone with these pets then yes that would be a problem but they can't so stop the [I cannot control my vocabulary] already.</blockquote><p>You sir, have a post count of 1.</p><p>Stop being a cowardly POS and hiding behind your alt account.</p><p>There are currently only 4 external zones where one can level from 70-80.  Having one of these perma-camped by coercers with 1 shot pets purely because they feel wronged by scouts is BS.  You're in the samed damned boat as every other Summoner, Enchanter, Warrior, Crusader, Shaman and Cleric out there - get over it - or at least have the balls to put a name to your posts.</p>

seejester
12-20-2007, 12:04 PM
<span style="font-size: small;color: #00ff00;">Folks, <i>clearly </i>this is a bug. A spell that does x10 its normal damage when the mob is charmed??? As nothing else in this game gives THAT big a boost to pvp damage, I'd be stunned if this was actually intended. Most likely, someone at SOE messed up. IMO equating this thread that attempts to call the attention of the Devs to fix this, and to warn people out there of the potential of coercers exploiting this bug, to equate this warning to a call for nerfing coercers is feeble-minded at best. If you have an opinion on whether a coercer needs nerfing or love, please start another thread. </span>

Izzypop
12-20-2007, 04:08 PM
<p>It's only a 555% damage increase when the mob is charmed.  If they did 10x more/1000% they would be hitting for 20k in pvp.  Not that it really makes any difference the mobs may as well hit for 20k per disabling strike since tanks who are increadably feeble against coercers are the only classes in the game that can survive a single shot from these mobs at the moment.</p><p>I know for a fact people are reporting coercers that are using the broken pets to the GMs.  There are<b> unconfirmed</b> "<span style="color: #ffccff;">rumors</span>" that GMs have been sending coercers nasty grams and giving them warnings to stop using broken pets.  I have no idea if this is true or not.  </p><p>There are 3 possibilities here.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">A)SOE is throwing out is throwing away every report made against coercers using these broken pets.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;">B)GM's are telling Coercers to stop using broken pets.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ffff;">C)GM's are actually going to punish Coercers that use broken pets.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ffff;">I'm going to say this about SOE actions.  No coercer should ever be suspended or baned for using these charmed pets.  You're talking about baning/suspending someone for using a class spell.  This is especially wrong if you are punishing someone for breaking an unwriten law.  </span></p><p><span style="color: #00ffff;">If GM's want to assert their authority though it's within their rights to suspend someone for disobeying a GMs warnings to not do something.  At that point it's not because you charmed a pet, it's because you told the GM's to [I cannot control my vocabulary] off.  Whateva I do what I want.</span></p>

yohann koldheart
12-20-2007, 05:56 PM
<p>all the big pvp hitters sniper arrow, fission, etc got cut back to below 50% of their pve damage in pvp, they need to make it so charmed pets work the same. if a 71 coercer charms a 76 mob the mob should scale back to level 71 and all his combat arts and or spells need to be cut back to below 50% of the max pve damage.</p><p> and its not like the combat art thats hitting for that much is rare, the mob almost always leads off with that or it hits within 4 seconds of the fight starting</p><p>a 71 coercer charming a 77 mob and the mob hitting for 9800 in pvp is way out of wack. now on the other hand if they eliminate the damage cut in sniper arrow, fission, etc etc i can live with the charm mob bug.</p><p>back when the server first opened the necro spider pet could 1 shot players no matter the players level and that was fixed in 3 or 4 days. this bug has been reported since expansion launch and still not fixed.</p>

Violator
12-20-2007, 06:24 PM
<p>Well, guess I need to go try them out before they are nerfed... I would SO love to hunt down some rangers.... payback for the 2 shot deaths I have had from them out of spell range...</p><p> And I would be good with them nerfing the hell out of them, or making them non charmable, but, the class needs some attention. Nerf our spells so they can manage to give us a little choice in aa's.... thats kinda lame. And we have basically no defense at all, I would settle with a manashield  <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> Since we are the masters of mana after all.</p><p> Love the class, and I don't think we are particularly weak.. but, one potion, resist, or 2 seconds of not paying total attention to your surroundings away from being fodder in about 3 seconds to any melee class.</p>

wvorster
12-21-2007, 03:52 AM
i don't see what there is to do payback for tbh - manashield > rangers in most cases- l2p.this is clearly being exploited all the time - even grey con coecers charming pets in Kunzar and near 1shotting lvl 75+ people. Lots loads of fame and coin like this to people intentionally exploting it. Even with my 100% parry ability up i still get 1shotted straight through.lvl 77 ranger - i only have 8400 ish hp.<img src="http://www.purity-guild.eu/images/tmp.jpg" alt="" border="0" />

Sigunn
12-21-2007, 05:39 AM
<cite>wvorster wrote:</cite><blockquote>i don't see what there is to do payback for tbh - manashield > rangers in most cases- l2p.</blockquote><p>Manashield on a coercer? WTB!</p><p>Even WTT for my trusted iksar bodyguard!</p>

Izzypop
12-21-2007, 07:22 AM
<cite>Sigunn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>wvorster wrote:</cite><blockquote>i don't see what there is to do payback for tbh - manashield > rangers in most cases- l2p.</blockquote><p>Manashield on a coercer? WTB!</p><p>Even WTT for my trusted iksar bodyguard!</p></blockquote><p>The mana shield was a coment was a rant on the shift of power towards wizzy/warlock from rangers in the daily ranger vhs wizzy/warlock fights.</p><p>The broken mechanics of your trusted Iksar bodygaurd's disabling strike by far trumps manashield.</p><p><img src="http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f255/LokiLaughs2much/graph.jpg" alt="" width="800" height="500" border="0" /></p><p>If I am wrong here please list the name of any wizzy/warlock that has taken a 9k Hit from disabling strike in PvP and was still able to kill your coercer.</p><p>Coercers are well set up to fight a wizard/warlock with mana shield without broken pet mechanics related to disabling strike.</p>

Sightless
12-21-2007, 08:29 AM
Face it, when Freeport can kill you with one hit; Harm Touch, Decapitation, or down right beat you no matter what because of a Rallos Zek miracle it is ok, they deserve to win freely. But when they die in under 6 seconds or even 4 seconds because a Ranger had to 1) Sneak up on you, 2) Focus Aim, 3) Sniper Shot, 4) Get a double attack, 5) Get a poison proc, 6) Get a offensive proc, et cetera which happens maybe 10% of the time it isn't ok. The constant crying from freeport about Rangers is laughable when you consider the overpowered abilities and instant deaths Qeynosians have had to suffer, and now this with one shotting charmed pets and oh look, freeportians are saying they're owed these one shotting pets and that it is ok.

Vydar
12-21-2007, 04:35 PM
<cite>Sightless wrote:</cite><blockquote>Face it, when Freeport can kill you with one hit; Harm Touch, Decapitation, or down right beat you no matter what because of a Rallos Zek miracle it is ok, they deserve to win freely. But when they die in under 6 seconds or even 4 seconds because a Ranger had to 1) Sneak up on you, 2) Focus Aim, 3) Sniper Shot, 4) Get a double attack, 5) Get a poison proc, 6) Get a offensive proc, et cetera which happens maybe 10% of the time it isn't ok. The constant crying from freeport about Rangers is laughable when you consider the overpowered abilities and instant deaths Qeynosians have had to suffer, and now this with one shotting charmed pets and oh look, freeportians are saying they're owed these one shotting pets and that it is ok.</blockquote>This makes me roffle.Decap has not "one shotted" anyone even close to even con for MONTHS.  Harm Touch, if you're referring to the level 20 version which is so named, was only 1 shotting people as part of a broken mechanic of level locking which as been fixed.  All the "one shot" spells got nerfed BIG time a while ago.  No one, and I mean no one, had the ability to crank out the dps as fast at ranged as a Ranger.  obviously, this is the name/purpose of the class.  But no class should be able to kill anyone without at LEAST time to react.  The nerf to Focus Aim probably wasn't the right answer to this problem, rather just a sloppy, thoughtless fix, but it definitely did address the issue.  And why can we "parry" arrows?  Oh, and I'm in Freeport, and I hate these pets just as much.  There is a coercer in exile who keeps taking one of these as pets and then sitting in Danak semi afk, waiting for people to hammer in and die to his pet.  A coercer on Nagafen, friend of one of my guildmates, comes on to our vent complaining that he only went from Champion to Master in a day, and wanted to get Overseer.  These stupid pets, the perma immunity bug being exploited... fun times.

gottasy
12-21-2007, 05:13 PM
<p>In 2 hours "trying" to doing quests in kunzars i got 1 shotted 5 times. Its amazing how many coercers there are on naggy and they are all in the same zone. I wonder why.9k hits is a joke no class should ever be able to hit that hard no matter what.</p><p>Please please please please fix the dam 1 shot pets.</p>

shalom
12-21-2007, 05:39 PM
<cite>Izzypop wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>It's only a 555% damage increase when the mob is charmed.  If they did 10x more/1000% they would be hitting for 20k in pvp.  Not that it really makes any difference the mobs may as well hit for 20k per disabling strike since tanks who are increadably feeble against coercers are the only classes in the game that can survive a single shot from these mobs at the moment.</p><p>I know for a fact people are reporting coercers that are using the broken pets to the GMs.  There are<b> unconfirmed</b> "<span style="color: #ffccff;">rumors</span>" that GMs have been sending coercers nasty grams and giving them warnings to stop using broken pets.  I have no idea if this is true or not.  </p><p>There are 3 possibilities here.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">A)SOE is throwing out is throwing away every report made against coercers using these broken pets.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;">B)GM's are telling Coercers to stop using broken pets.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ffff;">C)GM's are actually going to punish Coercers that use broken pets.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ffff;">I'm going to say this about SOE actions.  No coercer should ever be suspended or baned for using these charmed pets.  You're talking about baning/suspending someone for using a class spell.  This is especially wrong if you are punishing someone for breaking an unwriten law.  </span></p><p><span style="color: #00ffff;">If GM's want to assert their authority though it's within their rights to suspend someone for disobeying a GMs warnings to not do something.  At that point it's not because you charmed a pet, it's because you told the GM's to [I cannot control my vocabulary] off.  Whateva I do what I want.</span></p></blockquote><p>I witnessed a GM having a 'discussion' w/ a coercer after he'd 1-shot-petted me.  In tells, the GM said the devs are working on a fix, and that coercer's who use this should be /petitioned immediately. </p><p>However, the GM dismissed my idea of stealing all the dev's chairs till this was fixed <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Violator
12-21-2007, 06:21 PM
Well, I went out there last night and got a pet, tried it, and it wasnt as bad as it sounded... thought it was a instant death thing. But, it took sometimes up to 15 seconds for it to kill someone.... Then i thought... well, that is kinda bad, so I zoned into Fens to finish some quests, and for the second time that night, i died in under 2 seconds from a swashie.... and i thought.... WOW... that was WAY faster then my pet... lol.

Izzypop
12-22-2007, 09:46 AM
<p>The one shot is from disabling strike.  </p><p>I have heard widescale reports that GMs are responding to reports. </p><p>/Report people using it.</p>

Psych
12-22-2007, 01:48 PM
Izzypop you seem to be more upset by this than anyone else in my opinion.I think you should relax. I understand that your being killed very quickly by these pets.   1 shotted even from the readouts were seeing but really the Devs have known about this and it seems like it would be a pretty easy fix to just change the master version of the CAReally REALLY simple.This isnt like a code error thats hard to find or some huge sploit. Its 1 CA that is being increased 555% from app1 to master1.Obviously others do not increase quite this much to me knowledge on my 36 coercer with master1 of my beguile spell. I didnt notice a huge increase like that going from app1 to adept3 then master1.That means the other pets are balanced by a formula that has been in place. If they have a FORMULA for raising damage of spells/CA's (and they obviously do I mean level 1-80 for each class has app1 to master1 of almost every ca/spell) and they arent using it here then you have to atleast entertain the possibility that they MEANT for this to be exactly how it is.The devs have not said anything about this yet and until they do we cant assume that "gm's are talkin to coercers in game!" and other idle threats.If GM's or Devs really wanted coercers to stop using these pets it would take all of 5 minutes to go in, change the mobs damage of their 1 CA and be done with it.They arent fixing something that seems EASY to fix? Perhaps they dissagree with you that its broken at all.

Simera
12-22-2007, 02:09 PM
The result of that though is that people will eventually get tired of it and stop playing, and I dont think that is healthy for either the server or the game. It 'is' possible to empty a server of players by overwhelming them with one sidedness. Is everyone having fun in these fights? If the answer is no, it's not good for the longevity of pvp. I've seen more long time pvpers leave the game this past month than I've seen in nearly a year. 

Psych
12-22-2007, 04:59 PM
I agree with you safia and hope it gets changed as well as some other things I hear about in the top tier pvp about very quick deaths. Just shouldnt happen like that in my opinion.Yes I agree that after enough complaints it will get nerfed down to much much lower damage (but still pretty high) and it will still be a hotspot for coercers to get easier pvp kills but with all the rabble rabble I've seen it will definitely get changed.I still say the devs meant for it to be that high though. Other mobs dont randomly break the damage formula and when they do devs get on that stuff fast with emergency patches. they have fixed several other things in ROK and ignored this completely because its what they intended. The complaints are in though, it will be fixed eventually I bet.

gottasy
12-22-2007, 05:52 PM
<cite>shalom wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Izzypop wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>It's only a 555% damage increase when the mob is charmed.  If they did 10x more/1000% they would be hitting for 20k in pvp.  Not that it really makes any difference the mobs may as well hit for 20k per disabling strike since tanks who are increadably feeble against coercers are the only classes in the game that can survive a single shot from these mobs at the moment.</p><p>I know for a fact people are reporting coercers that are using the broken pets to the GMs.  There are<b> unconfirmed</b> "<span style="color: #ffccff;">rumors</span>" that GMs have been sending coercers nasty grams and giving them warnings to stop using broken pets.  I have no idea if this is true or not.  </p><p>There are 3 possibilities here.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">A)SOE is throwing out is throwing away every report made against coercers using these broken pets.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;">B)GM's are telling Coercers to stop using broken pets.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ffff;">C)GM's are actually going to punish Coercers that use broken pets.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ffff;">I'm going to say this about SOE actions.  No coercer should ever be suspended or baned for using these charmed pets.  You're talking about baning/suspending someone for using a class spell.  This is especially wrong if you are punishing someone for breaking an unwriten law.  </span></p><p><span style="color: #00ffff;">If GM's want to assert their authority though it's within their rights to suspend someone for disobeying a GMs warnings to not do something.  At that point it's not because you charmed a pet, it's because you told the GM's to [I cannot control my vocabulary] off.  Whateva I do what I want.</span></p></blockquote><p>I witnessed a GM having a 'discussion' w/ a coercer after he'd 1-shot-petted me.  In tells, the GM said the devs are working on a fix, and that coercer's who use this should be /petitioned immediately. </p><p>However, the GM dismissed my idea of stealing all the dev's chairs till this was fixed <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote><p>Someone posted a screen shot of a GM saying the pets were a exploit and anyone using them should be /petitioned</p><p>/shug no idea why in that case it hasnt been fixed still.</p>

Blumfield
12-22-2007, 05:59 PM
<cite>sprognak wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>Less QQ imo, lets see here Coercers without a pet have to get beat on for them to do any decent damage, they don't have anything like mana shield, they don't have big nukes or other big hitting abilities. What they do have is a pet that is only in a few zones in the entire game that can one shot people, and you are all crying about it? Think about how many times they have had been one shot but rangers or totally [I cannot control my vocabulary] by a swashy, this can happen to them in ANY zone but you are all crying because they are able to it to you in a couple new zones, [Removed for Content] with this crap. Now if they were able to zone with these pets then yes that would be a problem but they can't so stop the [I cannot control my vocabulary] already.</blockquote><p>You sir, have a post count of 1.</p><p>Stop being a cowardly POS and hiding behind your alt account.</p><p>There are currently only 4 external zones where one can level from 70-80.  Having one of these perma-camped by coercers with 1 shot pets purely because they feel wronged by scouts is BS.  You're in the samed damned boat as every other Summoner, Enchanter, Warrior, Crusader, Shaman and Cleric out there - get over it - or at least have the balls to put a name to your posts.</p></blockquote>Actually, no.  Coercer is in a much more difficult PvP position than any of those classes.  Only dirges have room to complain along with coercers.  That said, the damage on this pet bug is crazy and should be scaled down.  But don't claim to know the PvP pain of coercers until you've taken one to t7/t8 on a pvp server.  They really are that bad.  It's sad that the first positive thing that's happened to coercers PvP-wise since corpse candles in Bonemire has to be the result of a bug.

Psych
12-22-2007, 10:00 PM
<cite></cite><blockquote><cite>gottasay wrote</cite><p><span style="font-size: small;color: #ff0000;"><u><i><b>Someone posted a screen shot of a GM saying the pets were a exploit and anyone using them should be /petitioned</b></i></u></span></p><p>/shug no idea why in that case it hasnt been fixed still.</p></blockquote>Please link me to this because it would really settle things for me personally. Thanks in advance.

Natthan
12-23-2007, 12:49 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>sprognak wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>Less QQ imo, lets see here Coercers without a pet have to get beat on for them to do any decent damage, they don't have anything like mana shield, they don't have big nukes or other big hitting abilities. What they do have is a pet that is only in a few zones in the entire game that can one shot people, and you are all crying about it? Think about how many times they have had been one shot but rangers or totally [I cannot control my vocabulary] by a swashy, this can happen to them in ANY zone but you are all crying because they are able to it to you in a couple new zones, [Removed for Content] with this crap. Now if they were able to zone with these pets then yes that would be a problem but they can't so stop the [I cannot control my vocabulary] already.</blockquote><p>You sir, have a post count of 1.</p><p>Stop being a cowardly POS and hiding behind your alt account.</p><p>There are currently only 4 external zones where one can level from 70-80.  Having one of these perma-camped by coercers with 1 shot pets purely because they feel wronged by scouts is BS.  You're in the samed damned boat as every other Summoner, Enchanter, Warrior, Crusader, Shaman and Cleric out there - get over it - or at least have the balls to put a name to your posts.</p></blockquote>Actually, no.  Coercer is in a much more difficult PvP position than any of those classes.  Only dirges have room to complain along with coercers.  That said, the damage on this pet bug is crazy and should be scaled down.  But don't claim to know the PvP pain of coercers until you've taken one to t7/t8 on a pvp server.  They really are that bad.  It's sad that the first positive thing that's happened to coercers PvP-wise since corpse candles in Bonemire has to be the result of a bug.</blockquote>Are you serious about that, Time After time Summoners are rated THE WORST PvP class. That is Necro/Conj, Their pets don't taunt, They don't have a huge spike of damage per say, Crap for mit, and nearly no HP. I think you just haven't found the niche in the Coercer class to make you as good as you should be.

gottasy
12-23-2007, 01:54 PM
<cite>Psych wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><blockquote><cite>gottasay wrote</cite> <p><span style="font-size: small;color: #ff0000;"><u><i><b>Someone posted a screen shot of a GM saying the pets were a exploit and anyone using them should be /petitioned</b></i></u></span></p><p>/shug no idea why in that case it hasnt been fixed still.</p></blockquote>Please link me to this because it would really settle things for me personally. Thanks in advance.</blockquote><p>This is the best i can do atm.With xmas here i havnt got time to search through all the dirt on the forums <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p><img src="http://static3.filefront.com/images/personal/p/pletia/94130/qwkcvofpjf.jpg" border="0" alt="" width="309" height="123" />The GM was talking in 70-79 chat asking to send him /tell of who's </p>

Dh
12-23-2007, 02:13 PM
<p>While your making screenshots of abilities, someone should take a screen shot of Wizard Fusion / Fission.</p><p>Wizard Fusion Damage PVP/PVE ratio is like 50%</p><p>Wizard Fission Damage PVP/PVE ratio is like 90%</p><p>The actual spell doesn't do much more in PVE, they just forgot to scale it back for PVP like the older version. Either scale it back like fusion or the warlock rift upgrade needs a serious boost!</p>

Blumfield
12-23-2007, 06:39 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>sprognak wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>Less QQ imo, lets see here Coercers without a pet have to get beat on for them to do any decent damage, they don't have anything like mana shield, they don't have big nukes or other big hitting abilities. What they do have is a pet that is only in a few zones in the entire game that can one shot people, and you are all crying about it? Think about how many times they have had been one shot but rangers or totally [I cannot control my vocabulary] by a swashy, this can happen to them in ANY zone but you are all crying because they are able to it to you in a couple new zones, [Removed for Content] with this crap. Now if they were able to zone with these pets then yes that would be a problem but they can't so stop the [I cannot control my vocabulary] already.</blockquote><p>You sir, have a post count of 1.</p><p>Stop being a cowardly POS and hiding behind your alt account.</p><p>There are currently only 4 external zones where one can level from 70-80.  Having one of these perma-camped by coercers with 1 shot pets purely because they feel wronged by scouts is BS.  You're in the samed damned boat as every other Summoner, Enchanter, Warrior, Crusader, Shaman and Cleric out there - get over it - or at least have the balls to put a name to your posts.</p></blockquote>Actually, no.  Coercer is in a much more difficult PvP position than any of those classes.  Only dirges have room to complain along with coercers.  That said, the damage on this pet bug is crazy and should be scaled down.  But don't claim to know the PvP pain of coercers until you've taken one to t7/t8 on a pvp server.  They really are that bad.  It's sad that the first positive thing that's happened to coercers PvP-wise since corpse candles in Bonemire has to be the result of a bug.</blockquote>Are you serious about that, Time After time Summoners are rated THE WORST PvP class. That is Necro/Conj, Their pets don't taunt, They don't have a huge spike of damage per say, Crap for mit, and nearly no HP. I think you just haven't found the niche in the Coercer class to make you as good as you should be.</blockquote>Played a Necro some (and duo'd with a necro for 30 levels).  It takes them a long time to get all their damage going, but summoners have a better chance than coercers in 95% of PvP situations.   Coercers have to actually get hit or have their pets get hit to do most of their damage, unless they have a very good pet.  They aren't built to be hit.  I think most people rate summoners as the most difficult simply because coercer is so rarely played.  All the clothies are tough to play PvP (except with manashield), but coercer takes the cake IMO.

Natthan
12-23-2007, 11:04 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>sprognak wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>Less QQ imo, lets see here Coercers without a pet have to get beat on for them to do any decent damage, they don't have anything like mana shield, they don't have big nukes or other big hitting abilities. What they do have is a pet that is only in a few zones in the entire game that can one shot people, and you are all crying about it? Think about how many times they have had been one shot but rangers or totally [I cannot control my vocabulary] by a swashy, this can happen to them in ANY zone but you are all crying because they are able to it to you in a couple new zones, [Removed for Content] with this crap. Now if they were able to zone with these pets then yes that would be a problem but they can't so stop the [I cannot control my vocabulary] already.</blockquote><p>You sir, have a post count of 1.</p><p>Stop being a cowardly POS and hiding behind your alt account.</p><p>There are currently only 4 external zones where one can level from 70-80.  Having one of these perma-camped by coercers with 1 shot pets purely because they feel wronged by scouts is BS.  You're in the samed damned boat as every other Summoner, Enchanter, Warrior, Crusader, Shaman and Cleric out there - get over it - or at least have the balls to put a name to your posts.</p></blockquote>Actually, no.  Coercer is in a much more difficult PvP position than any of those classes.  Only dirges have room to complain along with coercers.  That said, the damage on this pet bug is crazy and should be scaled down.  But don't claim to know the PvP pain of coercers until you've taken one to t7/t8 on a pvp server.  They really are that bad.  It's sad that the first positive thing that's happened to coercers PvP-wise since corpse candles in Bonemire has to be the result of a bug.</blockquote>Are you serious about that, Time After time Summoners are rated THE WORST PvP class. That is Necro/Conj, Their pets don't taunt, They don't have a huge spike of damage per say, Crap for mit, and nearly no HP. I think you just haven't found the niche in the Coercer class to make you as good as you should be.</blockquote>Played a Necro some (and duo'd with a necro for 30 levels).  It takes them a long time to get all their damage going, but summoners have a better chance than coercers in 95% of PvP situations.   Coercers have to actually get hit or have their pets get hit to do most of their damage, unless they have a very good pet.  They aren't built to be hit.  I think most people rate summoners as the most difficult simply because coercer is so rarely played.  All the clothies are tough to play PvP (except with manashield), but coercer takes the cake IMO.</blockquote>I think Milambers will slap you for saying a summoner is better than his class, Honestly I don't mean to be a jerk or anything like that, but Maybe you should look into how your playing your class...Just a thought. Coercer CAN kill any class in the game, as long as they are paying attention. Exur was even able to kill rangers, Who were unable to be killed by coercers according to some. You just have to know what your doing, pay attention, and then you will be able to win almost any fight that you don't get your opening mez resisted(Which is a problem right now I know, but normally isn't as bad)

Izzypop
12-23-2007, 11:15 PM
Mez, Dump reactives on target, Root target, open with a long stiffle & dps while sending the pet in.  A coercer should in theory be able to beat just about anybody if they get the drop on them/get the 1st shot off.  Of course being a clothie if anything goes wrong the coercer is just squished.   If anything coercers should get a little bit more lovin from the GMs to make them a bit more survivable when thigns go wrong, but they dont' need bugged pets that hit for 9k.

Gimet
12-24-2007, 05:00 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>sprognak wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>Less QQ imo, lets see here Coercers without a pet have to get beat on for them to do any decent damage, they don't have anything like mana shield, they don't have big nukes or other big hitting abilities. What they do have is a pet that is only in a few zones in the entire game that can one shot people, and you are all crying about it? Think about how many times they have had been one shot but rangers or totally [I cannot control my vocabulary] by a swashy, this can happen to them in ANY zone but you are all crying because they are able to it to you in a couple new zones, [Removed for Content] with this crap. Now if they were able to zone with these pets then yes that would be a problem but they can't so stop the [I cannot control my vocabulary] already.</blockquote><p>You sir, have a post count of 1.</p><p>Stop being a cowardly POS and hiding behind your alt account.</p><p>There are currently only 4 external zones where one can level from 70-80.  Having one of these perma-camped by coercers with 1 shot pets purely because they feel wronged by scouts is BS.  You're in the samed damned boat as every other Summoner, Enchanter, Warrior, Crusader, Shaman and Cleric out there - get over it - or at least have the balls to put a name to your posts.</p></blockquote>Actually, no.  Coercer is in a much more difficult PvP position than any of those classes.  Only dirges have room to complain along with coercers.  That said, the damage on this pet bug is crazy and should be scaled down.  But don't claim to know the PvP pain of coercers until you've taken one to t7/t8 on a pvp server.  They really are that bad.  It's sad that the first positive thing that's happened to coercers PvP-wise since corpse candles in Bonemire has to be the result of a bug.</blockquote>Are you serious about that, Time After time Summoners are rated THE WORST PvP class. That is Necro/Conj, Their pets don't taunt, They don't have a huge spike of damage per say, Crap for mit, and nearly no HP. I think you just haven't found the niche in the Coercer class to make you as good as you should be.</blockquote>Played a Necro some (and duo'd with a necro for 30 levels).  <b><span style="font-size: medium;">It takes them a long time to get all their damage going</span></b>, but summoners have a better chance than coercers in 95% of PvP situations.   Coercers have to actually get hit or have their pets get hit to do most of their damage, unless they have a very good pet.  They aren't built to be hit.  I think most people rate summoners as the most difficult simply because coercer is so rarely played.  All the clothies are tough to play PvP (except with manashield), but coercer takes the cake IMO.</blockquote>You obviously don't understand the concept of PvP time. Coercers are way better than Summoners....by many levels. Don't even try to say Coercers have it hard in the presence of a full-hearted Summoner. Am I saying Coercers have it easy? NO, only Sorcs do....but in no way is a summoner better off than a coercer.

Izzypop
12-24-2007, 11:26 PM
<p>Coercers can make a legit claim that they are more difficult to play than summoners, as long as you define difficult as requiring skill.  A nub coercer will do nothing but get his teeth kicked in.  Now if you take  2 highlly skilled players and put them in controll of a summoner and a coercer the coercer will be far more powerfull.  Enchanters are by far one of the most powerfull classes in the game, but only in the hands of the best players. </p><p>These bugged pets do skilled coercers a great disservice.  We usted to know who the skilled coercers were, and they had a great deal of respect for being so good at  such a difficult class to play.  Many players would be amazed at just how deadly a coercer can be and were left pondering whiskey tango foxtrot how did I just get pwned like that?  Now the lot of them are generally regarded as a bunch of no skill nubs who do nothing but sick 9k hitting 1 shot pets on people.</p>

Psych
12-25-2007, 06:55 AM
<cite>Izzypop wrote:</cite><blockquote>Mez, Dump reactives on target, Root target, open with a long stiffle & dps while sending the pet in.  A coercer should in theory be able to beat just about anybody if they get the drop on them/get the 1st shot off.  Of course being a clothie if anything goes wrong the coercer is just squished.   If anything coercers should get a little bit more lovin from the GMs to make them a bit more survivable when thigns go wrong, but they dont' need bugged pets that hit for 9k.</blockquote>After you wrote this you went on to write...<cite>Izzypop wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Coercers can make a legit claim that they are more difficult to play than summoners, as long as you define difficult as requiring skill.  A nub coercer will do nothing but get his teeth kicked in.  Now if you take  2 highlly skilled players and put them in controll of a summoner and a coercer the coercer will be far more powerfull.  Enchanters are by far one of the most powerfull classes in the game, but only in the hands of the best players. </p><p>These bugged pets do skilled coercers a great disservice.  We usted to know who the skilled coercers were, and they had a great deal of respect for being so good at  such a difficult class to play.  Many players would be amazed at just how deadly a coercer can be and were left pondering whiskey tango foxtrot how did I just get pwned like that?  Now the lot of them are generally regarded as a bunch of no skill nubs who do nothing but sick 9k hitting 1 shot pets on people.</p></blockquote>Ok...look back at the first paragraph. On my 36 coercer (no wail yet, missing 2 reactives, no fear proc) its literally as you said.Its not a huge matter of skill really as much as it is landing that first mez. Thats really the key. After that anyone can time the stuns/silences correctly and yes assuming no resists I can easily take anyone I fight with adept3 spells and not even mastercrafted armor if they are my level or less.But...if you get hit first...its really nothing for another class to shred me in no time. Maybe its because my armor sucks, its not mastercrafted. But really shredded...really fast.Also, a smart coercer can win vs a button masher easily...but vs a smart player...much harder.Without pet vs smart player? Nearly an impossibility.Given our low direct dps a player that just runs away after we stack reactives is pretty much gonna get away if your pet cant kill him FAST and most likely it cant. Not every pet 1 shots someone.I've beaten a couple rangers but only the morons that actually charged me after they blasted their bow CA's. lol.If almost any class with a strong bow just stays back and uses their ranged auto attack they can pose a serious threat. Any coercer will tell you a player that refuses to use their power and refuses to attack melee might as well be invincible.Just sayin even with root, mez, stun...we cant hold a player long enuff for our DOT's and DD's to really finish him and we cant keep the DPS coming if he just focuses on running because we gotta stop to cast ofcourse.and dear cazic the resist rates...PSHAW!sorry getting off topic. I still say the devs meant for these mobs to be this strong. just my opinion.

Izzypop
12-25-2007, 01:13 PM
<cite>Psych wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Izzypop wrote:</cite><blockquote>Mez, Dump reactives on target, Root target, open with a long stiffle & dps while sending the pet in.  A coercer should in theory be able to beat just about anybody if they get the drop on them/get the 1st shot off.  Of course being a clothie if anything goes wrong the coercer is just squished.   If anything coercers should get a little bit more lovin from the GMs to make them a bit more survivable when thigns go wrong, but they dont' need bugged pets that hit for 9k.</blockquote>After you wrote this you went on to write...<cite>Izzypop wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Coercers can make a legit claim that they are more difficult to play than summoners, as long as you define difficult as requiring skill.  A nub coercer will do nothing but get his teeth kicked in.  Now if you take  2 highlly skilled players and put them in controll of a summoner and a coercer the coercer will be far more powerfull.  Enchanters are by far one of the most powerfull classes in the game, but only in the hands of the best players. </p><p>These bugged pets do skilled coercers a great disservice.  We usted to know who the skilled coercers were, and they had a great deal of respect for being so good at  such a difficult class to play.  Many players would be amazed at just how deadly a coercer can be and were left pondering whiskey tango foxtrot how did I just get pwned like that?  Now the lot of them are generally regarded as a bunch of no skill nubs who do nothing but sick 9k hitting 1 shot pets on people.</p></blockquote>Ok...look back at the first paragraph. On my 36 coercer (no wail yet, missing 2 reactives, no fear proc) its literally as you said.Its not a huge matter of skill really as much as it is landing that first mez. Thats really the key. After that anyone can time the stuns/silences correctly and yes assuming no resists I can easily take anyone I fight with adept3 spells and not even mastercrafted armor if they are my level or less.But...if you get hit first...its really nothing for another class to shred me in no time. Maybe its because my armor sucks, its not mastercrafted. But really shredded...really fast.Also, a smart coercer can win vs a button masher easily...but vs a smart player...much harder.Without pet vs smart player? Nearly an impossibility.Given our low direct dps a player that just runs away after we stack reactives is pretty much gonna get away if your pet cant kill him FAST and most likely it cant. Not every pet 1 shots someone.I've beaten a couple rangers but only the morons that actually charged me after they blasted their bow CA's. lol.If almost any class with a strong bow just stays back and uses their ranged auto attack they can pose a serious threat. Any coercer will tell you a player that refuses to use their power and refuses to attack melee might as well be invincible.Just sayin even with root, mez, stun...we cant hold a player long enuff for our DOT's and DD's to really finish him and we cant keep the DPS coming if he just focuses on running because we gotta stop to cast ofcourse.and dear cazic the resist rates...PSHAW!sorry getting off topic. <span style="color: #ff0000;">I still say the devs meant for these mobs to be this strong. just my opinion.</span></blockquote><p><img src="http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f255/LokiLaughs2much/graph.jpg" alt="" width="800" height="500" border="0" /></p><p>The Devs didn't mean to make pets so strong they 1 shot any non tank player.  </p><p>GMs are telling people to stop using them.</p><p>There is more brute force in charmed disabling strike than any other pvp attack in the game.</p><p>When the mob breaks charm it's damage reverts back to PVE damage when it turns on the coercer.</p><p>You made a good post on the difficulties of the coercer class, & then trashed it with a crazy statement.</p><p>The fact is most of the game's coercers do nothing but camp Kunzar with these mobs, and all they do is sick the pet on people while they run & hide until the other player is dead.</p><p>There is no skill in clicking 1 button (Pet attack) and then cowering out of line of sight while you wait for a pet to eat another player.</p><p>And that's all coercers do now.</p>

Psych
12-25-2007, 02:38 PM
I agree there is no skill in 1 clicking and that these new pets are overpowered. Thats a big part of why I wont play my coercer now. I dont like classes that have it easy...takes out the fun.I would love to see where a GM said something cause I would think a GM could easily insta-kill the mob. an ability they probably have to help fix broken mobs etc.I would hope the GM's are given more power in game than just chat channel access. I hated in Ultima Online when I would get stuck and get in line for GM only to have them tell me they are pretty much powerless.But as I said before if someone can get me any proof at all of these GM's sayin this I'll be routed and set right.I mean...look at how much in ROK has changed just since release of it and they havnt fixed these charmed pets. I really think they dont want to. I think they will eventually but I think they did it on purpose and thats why they are reluctant to change it. just my opinion on that tho.dont forget I'm on the side of nerfing them. the pets are obviously too strong, its a fact. you cant even question if they need nerfed or not its plain to see. But I think the devs did it on purpose is all. /shrug

silentpsycho
12-25-2007, 02:42 PM
No offense, but this sounds a lot like what scouts have been able to do since day 1.  I fail to see the problem here; so what if after 70 some odd levels, a coercer's pet becomes an advantage in pvp.  Other classes don't need pets to one shot people, have zero risk of the pet turning on them mid battle, and get to wear chain armor, have stealth and track...

Sightless
12-25-2007, 02:44 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>No offense, but this sounds a lot like what scouts have been able to do since day 1.  I fail to see the problem here; so what if after 70 some odd levels, a coercer's pet becomes an advantage in pvp.  Other classes don't need pets to one shot people, have zero risk of the pet turning on them mid battle, and get to wear chain armor, have stealth and track...</blockquote>Yep, you're a freep.

Izzypop
12-26-2007, 12:35 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>No offense, but this sounds a lot like what scouts have been able to do since day 1.  I fail to see the problem here; so what if after 70 some odd levels, a coercer's pet becomes an advantage in pvp.  Other classes don't need pets to one shot people, have zero risk of the pet turning on them mid battle, and get to wear chain armor, have stealth and track...</blockquote><p>Scouts & Druids have been overpowered from day 1.  We're not talking about a coercer's pet becoming an advantage here.  We're talking about a combat art on charmed mob that has a bugged pvp number.  This isn't an "advantage".  This is 100% domination over any and every class.  This is the ability to click 1 button the pet attack button and being able to go afk while your pet pwns anybody in the game.  The only reason people fail to see the problem here is they are either a coercer, or have a coercer friend that they can track for while they leech fame & tokens from while the pet kills people. </p><p>Is it just me or is this pvp to pve damage completely unreasonable?</p><p><img src="http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f255/LokiLaughs2much/graph.jpg" alt="" width="800" height="500" border="0" /></p>

gottasy
12-26-2007, 04:29 AM
<cite>Psych wrote:</cite><blockquote>I agree there is no skill in 1 clicking and that these new pets are overpowered. Thats a big part of why I wont play my coercer now. I dont like classes that have it easy...takes out the fun.I would love to see where a GM said something cause I would think a GM could easily insta-kill the mob. an ability they probably have to help fix broken mobs etc.I would hope the GM's are given more power in game than just chat channel access. I hated in Ultima Online when I would get stuck and get in line for GM only to have them tell me they are pretty much powerless.<span style="font-size: small;"><u><b>But as I said before if someone can get me any proof at all of these GM's sayin this I'll be routed and set right.</b></u></span>I mean...look at how much in ROK has changed just since release of it and they havnt fixed these charmed pets. I really think they dont want to. I think they will eventually but I think they did it on purpose and thats why they are reluctant to change it. just my opinion on that tho.dont forget I'm on the side of nerfing them. the pets are obviously too strong, its a fact. you cant even question if they need nerfed or not its plain to see. But I think the devs did it on purpose is all. /shrug</blockquote><p>I already posted it. But i guess you ignored it.</p><p><img src="http://static3.filefront.com/images/personal/p/pletia/94130/qwkcvofpjf.jpg" border="0" alt="" width="309" height="123" />The GM was talking in 70-79 chat asking to send him /tell of who's </p><p>Im not being funny but your 35. This pet is 1 pet in 1 zone out of whole game. To stop playin a coercer just because of this is just plain stupid. Dont go to that zone when you get to 75. Dont use the pet and you will be ok. </p><p>I havnt been back to that zone since i got 1 shotted 5 times and unless im running to a instance there i dont intend to go back. Not a idea solution but the best i can do till its fixed. No track and no evac gives me no chance of avoiding these dumb exploiters.</p>

Izzypop
12-26-2007, 05:30 AM
<cite>gottasy wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><img src="http://static3.filefront.com/images/personal/p/pletia/94130/qwkcvofpjf.jpg" border="0" alt="" width="309" height="123" />The GM was talking in 70-79 chat asking to send him /tell of who's </p><p>Im not being funny but your 35. This pet is 1 pet in 1 zone out of whole game. To stop playin a coercer just because of this is just plain stupid. Dont go to that zone when you get to 75. Dont use the pet and you will be ok. </p><p><b><span style="color: #ff0000;">I havnt been back to that zone since i got 1 shotted 5 times and unless im running to a instance there i dont intend to go back. Not a idea solution but the best i can do till its fixed. No track and no evac gives me no chance of avoiding these dumb exploiters.</span></b></p></blockquote><p>This is what I am talking about.  There are 2 types of Qs when it comes to KJ.  Those that will avoid the zones except to go to seb, and those willing to take pvp deaths from bugged pets there.   As a member of the later group I am in the minority.  Nobody wanted to go in there wtih me to level and do quests.  When you form a group in Q land someone in the group is agro to every camp because they never built up their faction there.  Forming a City of Mist group can be very difficult.   KP & Fens are the good zones for low to mid 70s, KJ and JW are the end game zones for high 70s and 80s.  That makes it 50% of the end game zones that are shut off not 25%.  80's really don't need anything in Fens or KP except to get to KJ or JW.</p>

Violator
12-26-2007, 01:03 PM
I have to hang out there usually. While trying to finish my quests in fens or KP, I usually run into 2-3 lvl 80 gank squads, who have maxed lvl, and nothing to do but farm greenies for tokens... not that I blame them, just makes me go to Kunzar to quest.

MuliganVanJurai
12-26-2007, 01:30 PM
<p>Simple fix... it needs to be adjusted.  The last thing we need is for Coercer's to be nerfed or something to be taken away.  </p><p>It becomes frustrating to constantly see people say "take away this" or "nerf that" when they does not bring balance.  To remove a class's selling point is the same as removing their unique qualities and the strategy of the games.  To balance means simply to adjust which can be very very hard in respect to PvP.</p><p>EQ2 is getting closer all the time.  </p><p> Great information in this discussion btw. Very nice...</p><p> Take care,</p><p>Muli</p>

Izzypop
01-02-2008, 12:50 AM
Well it's very obvious they are not going to do any kind of hot fix for this.  One would hope they are giong to fix this in LU42

Izzypop
01-15-2008, 01:28 PM
<p>No word yet from the devs yet if they are actually going to fix this problem with next LU.  </p><p>So far there is just a mass assumption that it will be fixed.</p><p>8 1/2 years in the military taught me something about assumptions.....</p><p>If it has not happened in a patch yet it will not happen in a patch.  So the only way this will be fixed is if they decide to fix it in the next LU.</p><p>Until then coercers will just one shot players in Kunzar just like the 1 shoted my sig.  So far the only thing this data I have posted has done is it got my sig removed.</p>

Oneira
01-15-2008, 02:05 PM
<cite>Izzypop wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>No word yet from the devs yet if they are actually going to fix this problem with next LU.  </p><p>So far there is just a mass assumption that it will be fixed.</p><p>8 1/2 years in the military taught me something about assumptions.....</p><p>If it has not happened in a patch yet it will not happen in a patch.  So the only way this will be fixed is if they decide to fix it in the next LU.</p><p>Until then coercers will just one shot players in Kunzar just like the 1 shoted my sig.  So far the only thing this data I have posted has done is it got my sig removed.</p></blockquote>If a problem that should have been fixed the next day is not fixed in an LU 2 months later, then that would speak volumes about something.  Sorry for the rant, but this is a shame.

Oneira
01-15-2008, 02:12 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>No offense, but this sounds a lot like what scouts have been able to do since day 1.  I fail to see the problem here; so what if after 70 some odd levels, a coercer's pet becomes an advantage in pvp.  Other classes don't need pets to one shot people, have zero risk of the pet turning on them mid battle, and get to wear chain armor, have stealth and track...</blockquote>Ok Mr. Bruiser, what's sauce for the gander is sauce for the goose.  I play an illusionist, the other enchanter.  No how would you feel if suddenly, every time I entered Kunzar Jungle, my personae hit my pvp target for 10-12k with a single hit?You'd throw a fit i'll bet.

Elephanton
01-15-2008, 06:35 PM
<cite>Oneira wrote:</cite><blockquote>I play an illusionist, the other enchanter.  No how would you feel if suddenly, every time I entered Kunzar Jungle, my personae hit my pvp target for 10-12k with a single hit?</blockquote>Can your persona turn on you in the middle of the PVP fight too?No. So please don't compare apples to oranges.With that said, this is obviously a bug which needs to be fixed.I mean, these particular mobs only.

Izzypop
01-15-2008, 07:26 PM
<cite>Oneira wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Izzypop wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>No word yet from the devs yet if they are actually going to fix this problem with next LU.  </p><p>So far there is just a mass assumption that it will be fixed.</p><p>8 1/2 years in the military taught me something about assumptions.....</p><p>If it has not happened in a patch yet it will not happen in a patch.  So the only way this will be fixed is if they decide to fix it in the next LU.</p><p>Until then coercers will just one shot players in Kunzar just like the 1 shoted my sig.  So far the only thing this data I have posted has done is it got my sig removed.</p></blockquote>If a problem that should have been fixed the next day is not fixed in an LU 2 months later, then that would speak volumes about something.  Sorry for the rant, but this is a shame.</blockquote><p>That assumes they are going to fix it.  The GMs have said it's an exploit but no Dev has made any mention that it will be fixed so any talk of it being fixed in the next great LU is an assumption.</p><p><img src="http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f255/LokiLaughs2much/qwkcvofpjf.jpg" alt="" width="309" height="123" border="0" /></p><p>With lots of other issues I really could see this being overlooked again....what's another 2 more months?</p>

Kru
01-25-2008, 05:43 AM
<cite>Izzypop wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>No word yet from the devs yet if they are actually going to fix this problem with next LU.  </p><p>So far there is just a mass assumption that it will be fixed.</p><p>8 1/2 years in the military taught me something about assumptions.....</p><p>If it has not happened in a patch yet it will not happen in a patch.  So the only way this will be fixed is if they decide to fix it in the next LU.</p><p>Until then coercers will just one shot players in Kunzar just like the 1 shoted my sig.  So far the only thing this data I have posted has done is it got my sig removed.</p></blockquote>Check the test update notes for LU42.No PVP armor, no PVP bug fixes, no fixing charm pets.NO PVP CHANGES AT ALL.

Harbringer Doom
01-25-2008, 12:53 PM
<cite>Kruhl wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Check the test update notes for LU42.No PVP armor, no PVP bug fixes, no fixing charm pets.NO PVP CHANGES AT ALL.</blockquote>WHOA!Careful what you say while "the Man" is watching.I know someone who made a one line thread regarding LU 42 the other day.  It said something like "Is it me, or does LU 42 do nothing?"He got a three day ban for "excessive negativity."Is it me, or is that ridiculous?  Because, you know, the thread was SPOT ON true.  Remember this rule:  No being critical of SOE or down comes the ban stick... even if what you say if true and the MOST BASIC of problems aren't being fixed.  Doesn't matter.  Be happy and chipper in all your posts, or suffer the consequences!

Elephanton
01-25-2008, 02:25 PM
<p><span style="font-size: small;">Yesterday, my coercer was 1-shotted by ranger by a single double-attack (instant death from 8K ranger double-attack). Probably he has some kind of awesome T8 bow.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;">Anyway... I was just wondering why nobody is whining about rangers doing 8K damage in 1 autoattack hit, and yet coercers with pets dealing same 8K damage (which coercers cannot even control, it is up to pet when to use it, if at all). Are coercers... supposed to suck?</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;">Not that I don't think that this needs to be fixed, yes pet skills need to be toned down.However, in all other zones melee pets suck completely (same autoattack as casters, but combat arts deal 3-4 times less damage than spells). For instance, sorceror pets own as for damage potentials, while all melee pets, even assasins or brigands, have ridiculous damage (combat arts are used extremely rare, and deal about same damage as autoattack, usually even less). This is not right. Assasin pet should be able to dish out same DPS as sorceror pet imo.</span></p>

Harbringer Doom
01-25-2008, 04:14 PM
So... let me get this straight...Because you think Ranger's attacks are overpowered, Coercers should get to keep their <b>clearly broken</b> charmed one-shot pets in KJ?Nothing about that line of argument seems off kilter to you?If there is a problem with Ranger DPS, start a thread, or comment on another.  That has nothing to do with the topic here.

Elephanton
01-25-2008, 07:28 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>So... let me get this straight...Because you think Ranger's attacks are overpowered, Coercers should get to keep their <b>clearly broken</b> charmed one-shot pets in KJ?Nothing about that line of argument seems off kilter to you?</blockquote><p><span style="font-size: small;">I just don't understand all the big fuss about <span style="color: #ffff00;">a few </span>coercers doing 8K damage in ONE zone, while there are <span style="color: #ffff00;">thousands</span> of rangers doing exact same damage this very moment in EVERY zone... honestly.Should not the ranger problem be more important for the community, given the relative number of rangers?Why is KJ mobs problem getting so much attention, unlike T8 autoattack?</span></p>

Izzypop
01-26-2008, 03:13 PM
<p><b><span style="font-size: xx-large;">I have not yet begun to....</span></b></p><p> <img src="http://www.e-pix.com/ArtMuseum/JPJones.jpg" alt="" width="657" height="479" border="0" /></p><p><strike>Troll</strike></p><p><strike>scream out large amoutns of obscenity, vulgarity, and profanity  </strike></p><p><strike>Use the official forums as a staging ground for creating general unrest within the game or forums, such as sit-ins, polls, petitions, etc. </strike></p><p><strike>Unleash Attacks or insults upon others on the board.</strike></p><p>Get my face pwned by the forum mods like I was an animated talking razor blade with turrets syndrome</p><p><span style="font-size: medium;color: #ff0000;"><b>DESPITE GMS CALLING THE BROKEN MECHANICS OF DISABLING STRIKE AN OFFICIAL EXPLOIT</b></span></p><p><img src="http://static3.filefront.com/images/personal/p/pletia/94130/qwkcvofpjf.jpg" alt="" width="309" height="123" border="0" /></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;color: #ff3300;"><b>KJ 1 SHOT MOBS WILL BE AROUND UNTIL AT LEAST LU43</b></span></p><p>I think one of the gms or forum mods got caught sleeping with the lead pvp dev's wife.  The only logical explanation why the devs would screw over the pvp community like this is to make their life less pleasant.</p><p>This problem will not be fixed.  The devs will not help.  The GMs have declared it an exploit the only option left is to report everybody doing it.  Maybe, just maybe, after giving repeat offenders a dozen warnings to stop doing it, the GMs might suspend someone.</p>

Amphibia
01-27-2008, 04:09 PM
Bah, I was hoping for an update on this... <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

Elephanton
01-27-2008, 04:50 PM
<cite>Izzypop wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><span style="font-size: medium;color: #ff3300;"><b>KJ 1 SHOT MOBS</b></span></p></blockquote>You really need to fix your HP dude... even my friend's brig has 12K HP at 80 self-buffed, approaching 13K HP as he gets his new epic.Now, these mobs usually hit for 7-8K in my experience, and this skill refreshes like 30 sec.And besides of this particular skill, mob's damage is very weak...

Izzypop
01-27-2008, 10:51 PM
<cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Izzypop wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><span style="font-size: medium;color: #ff3300;"><b>KJ 1 SHOT MOBS</b></span></p></blockquote>You really need to fix your HP dude... even my friend's brig has 12K HP at 80 self-buffed, approaching 13K HP as he gets his new epic.Now, these mobs usually hit for 7-8K in my experience, and this skill refreshes like 30 sec.And besides of this particular skill, mob's damage is very weak...</blockquote><p>Gratz!</p><p>You're the 1st one to respone with the Attempt to obsfucate the issue with a you [Removed for Content] suck nub learn 2 play defence.</p><p>KJ 1 shot mobs do not 1 shot me when I was a level 80 guard, nor do they now that I am a level 80 zerker.</p><p>Disabling strike does however hit me harder than an fission.</p><p>The fact is these mobs drop an fast casting hit larger than an fission every 20 seconds.</p><p>You would cry a river of tears if fission's recast was moved down to 20 seconds.</p><p>Anybody who can't eat a fission to the face can be 1 shoted by these pets.</p><p>This is a weak attempt to cloud the issue by blaming the victims of disabling strike for being such a noob they can't take a 9k hit in every fight.</p>

Roald
01-28-2008, 05:43 AM
<p>I know of people who have petitioned this and got the response that it is not an exploit.</p>

Harbringer Doom
01-28-2008, 12:02 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I know of people who have petitioned this and got the response that it is not an exploit.</p></blockquote>I know of people who have woken up on bathtubs full of ice with their kidneys cut out.Seriously, I've seen screen shots of GMs calling this an exploit, but every time someone says the opposite, I've seen no proof.Someone who has been told this is not an exploit, please provide some real evidence so we know there are truly differing opinions among TPTB about the nature of this situation.

Izzypop
01-28-2008, 12:40 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I know of people who have petitioned this and got the response that it is not an exploit.</p></blockquote><p>I know of coercers who will lie, distract, and misinform because they don't want to loose their 1 shot pets.</p><p><img src="http://static3.filefront.com/images/personal/p/pletia/94130/qwkcvofpjf.jpg" alt="" width="309" height="123" border="0" /></p>

sokil
01-28-2008, 12:47 PM
<p>I hope they do something about this as I continuosly see the same freep using this exploit over and over again and I petitioned many times. Now I just work around it by having a warden root the pet as I kill the freep .. collect the loot and run from the mob. the same freep must have tried this 8 times within an hour but no matter. Root and kill worked every time. More must have been doing the same because I have seen this freep go from slayer to champ to slayer. </p><p>Of course It sucks to fly into a place to see that mob standing there killing anyone that lands in 2 seconds. now I just jump early as a habit. </p><p> Thanks for the tokens and fame freep.. you make it so easy when you do not know how to do anything else but use the same pet over and over again. </p>

Bozidar
01-28-2008, 12:51 PM
<cite>Izzypop wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I know of people who have petitioned this and got the response that it is not an exploit.</p></blockquote><p>I know of coercers who will lie, distract, and misinform because they don't want to loose their 1 shot pets.</p><p><img src="http://static3.filefront.com/images/personal/p/pletia/94130/qwkcvofpjf.jpg" border="0" alt="" width="309" height="123" /></p></blockquote><p>wow, just... wow.  Is that for real?</p><p>Heck, if it's an epxloit then there are a good number of coercers who should be banned/suspended, no?  I mean.. it's pretty easy to see it going on.</p><p>I just dont understand WHY it's an epxloit.</p>

Izzypop
01-28-2008, 12:56 PM
<p><b><span style="font-size: medium;color: #ff0000;">Things more important than fixing bugged KJ pets with disabling srike in LU42</span></b></p><p><b>GAMEPLAY </b></p><ul><li>New mannequins are available for displaying armor and weapons in your house.  You can acquire them from some of your more dedicated and advanced crafting friends </li><li>Summoners are now granted an additional spell at level 2 so they can complete Arcane Storm properly. </li><li>NPC's in raid zones that you would normally see will no longer disappear when running on low graphics settings. </li><li>The Clockwork Menace Factory will once again allow you to enter as long as one group member has the power cell key. </li><li>AFK flags will no longer be removed when zoning. </li></ul><p><b>ITEMS</b></p><ul><li>Frostfell themed food house items now remain edible all year round. </li><li>Rare leather pelts found in treasure chests should stack with harvested rare leather pelts from now on. They still may not stack with older pelts, however. (Local tradeskill society advisors suggest pack rats may therefore wish to use the older ones up first.) </li><li>Clockwork Earring has been renamed to Clockwork Ring to reflect its equip slot </li><li>Bracelet of Thuuga now increases Spell Damage instead of Healing </li><li>Red-saddled Midnight Mistrunner Horse Whistle should now be usable by Good-aligned players. </li><li>Heartfinder should no longer give error messages about lacking the required skill to use. </li><li>Seared Bandolier and Buz'zard's Shortbow should no longer move to your overflow after zoning.</li></ul><p><b>ZONES</b></p><ul><li>Gorowyn</li></ul><p>The elevator in Gorowyn will now stop in line with the platforms.</p><ul><li>Sinking Sands</li></ul><p>There should now be fewer unreachable mining nodes in the Sinking Sands.  Should you encounter any after this update, please submit a /bug with the location.</p><ul><li>Kunzar Jungle</li></ul><p>Repeatable quests in Kunzar Jungle now give more faction.</p><ul><li>Isle of MaraArtisan quests on the Isle of Mara now grant tradeskill experience, instead of adventure experience.</li></ul><p><b>ACHIEVEMENTS</b></p><ul><li>BruiserEnhance: Knockout line should properly update the damage now.</li></ul><p><b>SPELLS</b></p><p>Level 60 to 70 dumbfire pets should now scale properly to before an upgraded spell is available.</p><ul><li>Necromancer Siphoning of Souls should now return the appropriate level spell for Soothing Soul. </li><li>RangerHook Arrow should no longer move stationary objects. </li><li>ShamanAn issue that might cause wards to have a long delay in their initial update after zoning has been fixed. </li></ul><p><b>QUESTS</b></p><ul><li>Repeating the Sebilis quests "Swords To Be Swiped" and "Sathirian Hunting Party" will now reward more Synod Reet faction than previously. </li><li>While on the quest, "In Honor and Service", players that accidentally destroyed the orc expedition keys can now loot them again if they are on the stage requiring them to open the chests. </li><li>The first stage of the quest "The Teachings of Yoru" now updates correctly on the number of wood pieces collected.</li></ul><p><b>TRADESKILLS</b></p><ul><li>Grandmasters belonging to the tradeskill societies of the five starting cities now offer another quest for crafters level 30 and above who have completed their previous quest, Journeyman Service.  Seek out Grandmaster Kawayzer (West Freeport), Grandmaster Kimbialis (Ironforge Exchange, off North Qeynos), Grandmaster Zyrythius (Neriak), Grandmaster Feldmanus (Kelethin), or Grandmaster Jayak (Gorowyn) to begin. </li><li>Tradeskill societies in the five starting cities of Norrath now offer a new recipe book to those they regard warmly. </li><li>Provisioners noticed they had two separate recipes for prickly pear muffins, and have reformulated the level 55 recipe to create prickly pear crumpets instead.  Mmm, crumpets. </li><li>The recipe for luscious cranberry pie with cream now requires 6 fuel, but the pie will last longer. </li><li>"Hair of the Dog" is now a level 25 provisioner recipe, instead of level 35. </li><li>Carpenters will find two new recipes, one in each of carpenter essentials volume 60 and 62, which should be pleasing for home decorators. </li><li>The number of charges on the Gnomish Safety Recaller has been increased to 20. </li><li>"Fizzlebottom's Wondrous Hover-gasser" recipe book is now known as "Fizzlebottom's Remarkable Rechargeration Recipes" and also contains a recharger recipe for the Gnomish Safety Recaller.  It is still for sale in Steamfont Mountains at Gnomeland Security. </li><li>The Gigglegibber's Secret of Death now has only a 1 second casting time. </li><li>Scintillating restorative stitching now has a minimum required level to use of 60, in line with other adornments of the same level. </li><li>Condemning Smite Adept III now correctly returns 2 flickering dust as a byproduct. </li><li>"Common Writing" and "Spectral Influx" sage reaction arts should now correctly prevent a failure when used to counter an event.</li></ul><p><b>USER INTERFACE</b></p><ul><li>There is a new command for un-equipping items in your appearance slots. /unequip_appearance <slot></li></ul>

sprogn
01-28-2008, 12:57 PM
<p>Because it's using a broken mechanic to gain a personal advantage in the game.</p><p>Same way as it's an exploit to use a pathing bug to kill a mob while it flips around unable to hit or get to you.</p><p>Same way as it's an exploit to use 3rd party programs to warp at stupid speeds.</p><p>Just because something CAN be done, does not mean it was intended, or will be tolerated.</p><p>The real problem here is why is it taking the Dev's months to fix it while we sit and wait, watching patch messages about how Maidens names can no longer be power drained....</p>

Roald
01-28-2008, 01:07 PM
<cite>sprognak wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Because it's using a broken mechanic to gain a personal advantage in the game.</p><p>Same way as it's an exploit to use a pathing bug to kill a mob while it flips around unable to hit or get to you.</p><p>Same way as it's an exploit to use 3rd party programs to warp at stupid speeds.</p><p>Just because something CAN be done, does not mean it was intended, or will be tolerated.</p><p>The real problem here is why is it taking the Dev's months to fix it while we sit and wait, watching patch messages about how Maidens names can no longer be power drained....</p></blockquote><p>Rangers CAN equip 9 sec delay bows and CAN 1 shot people, does that mean its an exploit?</p><p>About the proof, Ill see if I can get hold of it, maybe then you can stop spamming that 1 line of chat.</p>

Elephanton
01-28-2008, 01:24 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Rangers CAN equip 9 sec delay bows and CAN 1 shot people, does that mean its an exploit?</p></blockquote>Please add Fission to this list of "expolits", because it hits for 10K+ in PVP.That's 25% more damage than KJ pet typically hits for

Izzypop
01-28-2008, 01:32 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>sprognak wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Because it's using a broken mechanic to gain a personal advantage in the game.</p><p>Same way as it's an exploit to use a pathing bug to kill a mob while it flips around unable to hit or get to you.</p><p>Same way as it's an exploit to use 3rd party programs to warp at stupid speeds.</p><p>Just because something CAN be done, does not mean it was intended, or will be tolerated.</p><p>The real problem here is why is it taking the Dev's months to fix it while we sit and wait, watching patch messages about how Maidens names can no longer be power drained....</p></blockquote><p>Rangers CAN equip 9 sec delay bows and CAN 1 shot people, does that mean its an exploit?</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Rangers are and have always been o<b>verpowered </b>against clothies without manashield.  </span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Overpowered ranger attacks work as intended.  That's why they are<b> Overpowered</b> and not <b>Bugged.</b></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Coercers 1 shot pets are <b>Bugged</b>.  They are not working as intended.  Knowingly using a game mechanic that you know is bugged is an <b>exploit.</b></span></p><p>About the proof, Ill see if I can get hold of it, maybe then you can stop spamming that 1 line of chat.</p><p><img src="http://static3.filefront.com/images/personal/p/pletia/94130/qwkcvofpjf.jpg" alt="" width="309" height="123" border="0" /> </p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Your word vhs Gaunsky's</span></p></blockquote>

Izzypop
01-28-2008, 01:55 PM
<cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Rangers CAN equip 9 sec delay bows and CAN 1 shot people, does that mean its an exploit?</p></blockquote>Please add Fission to this list of "expolits", because it hits for 10K+ in PVP.That's 25% more damage than KJ pet typically hits for</blockquote><p><span style="font-size: medium;color: #ff0000;">Fission is thought of as the most overpowered attack in the game.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;color: #ff0000;">Fission 25%>Charmed pet Damage=An incorrect number you just made up.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;color: #ff0000;">Here are the facts.</span></p><p><img src="http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f255/LokiLaughs2much/graph.jpg" border="0" alt="" width="800" height="500" /></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;">Fission is overpowered, but Disabling strike does far more damage than fission</span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;">It's not an opinion it's a cold hard fact.  Here are the numbers</span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;">Fission Adept 1 4,311-7,185 PVE 3,449-5,736 PVP </span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;">PvP does 80% of PVE damage</span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;">Fission master 1 PVE 8,110-13,516, 80% PVP Scale down would be 6,488-10,848 </span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;color: #ff0000;">Master 1 Fission PVP 6,488-10,848 < Disabling strike 11,446 PvP damage</span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;">If you average the damage to under 9k from a fission the charmed pet does about 25% more than the fission.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;">That is because Fission only does 80% of it's PVE damage in PVP</span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;">Disabling strike does 555% of it's PVE damage in PVP</span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;">If Fission scaled like Disabling strike does it's PVP damage would be 45,010-75,013</span></p>

Harbringer Doom
01-28-2008, 02:53 PM
<cite>Izzypop wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><span style="font-size: medium;">If Fission scaled like Disabling strike does it's PVP damage would be 45,010-75,013</span></p></blockquote>Okay, that would be kind of funny ...

Elephanton
01-28-2008, 05:52 PM
<p><b><span style="font-size: small;">Izzypop</span></b></p><span style="font-size: small;"><p>I just parsed the logs for last 2 weeks (27 hits, I don't use this mob too much because it sucks in PVE) and could not find a single occasion when Disabling Strike hit over 9K, average hit is 8200.</p><p>Probably, your screenshots show max possible damage not counting mitigation. Meaning, it can only hit this much against target with 0 mitigation.</p></span><p><span style="font-size: small;">FYI I've been hit by Fission for 10K even though I have 50% resists.</span></p>

Izzypop
01-29-2008, 12:41 AM
<cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><b><span style="font-size: small;">Izzypop</span></b></p><span style="font-size: small;"><p>I just parsed the logs for last 2 weeks (27 hits, I don't use this mob too much because it sucks in PVE) and could not find a single occasion when Disabling Strike hit over 9K, average hit is 8200.</p><p>Probably, your screenshots show max possible damage not counting mitigation. Meaning, it can only hit this much against target with 0 mitigation.</p></span><p><span style="font-size: small;">FYI I've been hit by Fission for 10K even though I have 50% resists.</span></p></blockquote><p>The damage shown is base damage before mitigation or ressists.  The fact is ressists are less effective than mitigation.</p><p>Fission is on a 3 minute recast with a 5 second casting time and a point blank range.</p><p>All you have to do is press the pet attack key.</p><p>Charm and Fission are class defining spells</p><p>It was never intended for a mob's combat art to do 555% of it's PVE damage in PVE.</p><p>That's why GMs have called it a bug (disabling strike is not working correctly)</p><p>That's why a GM has officially labled this as an exploit. (knowingly using a <b>bugged </b>game mechanic to kill other players)</p><p>The bottom line is while fission is overpowered it is not officially labled as a bugged spell.</p><p>Disabling strike is officially bugged however.</p><p>The 27 times you used a charmed pet with disabling strike over the last 2 weeks is exploiting.</p><p>You just admited to using a known bug that GMs have said is a bug for the sole purpose of PVP.</p><p>You chose just said you knowingly chose to charm pets with disabling strike for the sole purpose of PVP because they are inferior in PVE </p><p><b>You know GMs have said using  these pets for the purpose of bugged disabling strike in pvp is an exploit, and yet you did it anyways.</b></p><p>That is the very definition of exploiting.</p><p><b>Explain to me how you are not exploiting.</b></p><p><img src="http://static3.filefront.com/images/personal/p/pletia/94130/qwkcvofpjf.jpg" alt="" width="309" height="123" border="0" /></p><p><cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I just parsed the logs for last 2 weeks (27 hits, I don't use this mob too much because it sucks in PVE) and could not find a single occasion when Disabling Strike hit over 9K, average hit is 8200.</p></blockquote><p>Coercers will say anything to keep these pets, even lie to themself.</p>

Elephanton
01-29-2008, 04:06 PM
<p>Please don't accuse me in lying, because I don't.Thank you.</p>

Elephanton
01-29-2008, 04:07 PM
<cite>Izzypop wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><b>Explain to me how you are not exploiting.</b></p><p><img src="http://static3.filefront.com/images/personal/p/pletia/94130/qwkcvofpjf.jpg" border="0" alt="" width="309" height="123" /></p></blockquote>Personally, I think it is Photoshop fake.

Elephanton
01-29-2008, 04:11 PM
<cite>Izzypop wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>It was never intended for a mob's combat art to do 555% of it's PVE damage in PVE.</p><p>That's why GMs have called it a bug (disabling strike is not working correctly)</p></blockquote>Your numbers are way over board.I've been hit by this spell in PVE for 3000+ damage (I am coercer with 20% mitigation).

Elephanton
01-29-2008, 04:16 PM
Finally, I've already posted numerous times in this thread that I agree this spell needs to be toned down (see above).I would only like to see it happen ALONG with other big hitters nerfs (ranger 8K autoattack, fission 10K with 50% resists).What I don't want to see, is some classes nerfed, while other classes keeping their OP abilities.Right now, coercer has a chance against ranger in KJ (not in other zones).And, if we are to nerf them, lets nerf them together?

Roald
01-29-2008, 04:19 PM
<cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Izzypop wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><b>Explain to me how you are not exploiting.</b></p><p><img src="http://static3.filefront.com/images/personal/p/pletia/94130/qwkcvofpjf.jpg" border="0" alt="" width="309" height="123" /></p></blockquote>Personally, I think it is Photoshop fake.</blockquote>Im only going to believe SSs with the GM actually in them, not a /who showing a supposed GM, thats 10 levels lower than the cap.

Harbringer Doom
01-29-2008, 05:27 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite> <blockquote><p>Im only going to believe SSs with the GM actually in them, not a /who showing a supposed GM, thats 10 levels lower than the cap.</p></blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p> I know of people who have petitioned this and got the response that it is not an exploit.</p></blockquote><p>Let me guess, these "people" you know had screen shots and other myriad evidence, right?</p><p>Wait... I thought you only believed screen shots with a GM actually in them... not just, what?  Peak's rabid ramblings?</p><p>I was truly shocked to learn you are a coercer.  <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

Roald
01-29-2008, 08:53 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite> <blockquote><p>Im only going to believe SSs with the GM actually in them, not a /who showing a supposed GM, thats 10 levels lower than the cap.</p></blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p> I know of people who have petitioned this and got the response that it is not an exploit.</p></blockquote><p>Let me guess, these "people" you know had screen shots and other myriad evidence, right?</p><p>Wait... I thought you only believed screen shots with a GM actually in them... not just, what?  Peak's rabid ramblings?</p><p>I was truly shocked to learn you are a coercer.  <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote>I think you should read the whole thread before jumping on the troll bandwagon. Im in favour of these getting nerfed by at least 50%, if not more. I will, however, not regard it as an exploit unless I see proper evidence (which i dont regard Rippy's SS as).

Izzypop
01-29-2008, 09:24 PM
<p>holy [Removed for Content] i can't believe my eyes.  It's like people are role playing being a coercer on the boards.</p><p>Let's set thing straight 1st off.  <b>There are 24 classes in the game, not just coercers and rangers. </b></p><p>If your class is unbeatable in 1 zone when you exploit a bug, and you only pvp in that 1 zone, then your class is unbeatable.</p><p>Now before you say I'm wrong about disabling strike increasing by 555% from PvE to PvP you should actually read the 1st page of this thread.  I did a lot of research into this and have screenshots showing pve vhs pvp damage of 2 pets with this ability hiting me at various levels of mitigation.</p><p>There is a big difference between class balance and the correction of a bug.  Fixing 1 single bug that is being exploited is an easy fix.  Fixing class blance isn't.</p><p>The devs did recently attempt to tone down rangers by nerfing focus aim.  The result was they still destroy coercers and necromancers, but now get wrecked by casters with manashield and they now cry bloodly murder about mana shield and stoneskin procs.  </p><p>Coerceres were never meant to be an easy mode class with a simple I win button.  The debate here isn't class balance between rangers and coercers.  The debate here is is coercers beat everybody in KJ.  Before you go on about how you need a hit with an 8k hit in pvp answer these 2 questions.</p><p>Question #1) How is any class suppost to beat a coercer with every ability a coercer has after they take a 7-9k hit from the coercers pet?</p><p>Question #2) Is your class so [Removed for Content] you can't win any fight against any class without your pet doing a 7-9k hit?</p>

bladechef
01-30-2008, 03:09 AM
<p><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #009933;font-family: times new roman,times;">Firstly I would like to address the OP:</span></b></p><p><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #009933;font-family: Times New Roman;">      Rippy and Pett, thank you very much for the time/effort of compiling the data on this issue.  May not be the biggest gripe/flaw in PvP atm, but it is far from the smallest.  This is not now nor has it been 'working as intended' since the RoK launch and that is undeniable reguardless of the class you play.  No class that can hit one button while fleeing with back turned to their opponent is supposed to be hitting ANYWHERE near that hard.  We all know it.  And though it may feel like a bit of sweetness after plenty of bitter tastes it is absolutely exploiting a KNOWN, flawed game mechanic (period)</span></b></p><p><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #009933;font-family: Times New Roman;">Secondly to those that want to say nerf big hits across the board:</span></b></p><p><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #009933;font-family: Times New Roman;">       This would be far from the first time it has been brought up and also far from a resolution that will make all folks happy.  Using fission as an example, I will say that: Yes.  It hits ridiculously hard.  The dmg output from a fission can be staggering on one target and has the possibility of hitting 3.  That said: Fission is still a minimum 3.5 second cast and that is allowing Ideal conditions (AA, Sorcerous Alacrity gear and Time Compression or Divine Recovery et cetera).  Generally it is a 4.4 second cast... and as any caster knows 4-5 seconds can be an eternity in PvP.  Much more than the 'Heavy-Hitters' discussions on these boards you'll find the 'Scout-Hate'/Nerf Scouts! threads.  (Rogues, I'm looking at you here)  Anyone who plays a caster knows that it can take significantly less than 4.5 seconds to get burned doiwn by a scout that has caught you unaware... he11, even a brawler or berserker can do it in less than 4 seconds if they get drop on you.  This is also undeniable.  Fission casts are so easily interrupted and moreover so [Removed for Content] easy for a player to avoid I have trouble understanding all the hatred... but I suppose you only have to walk into one crit fission to feel the ire.  (my condolences to those who have to play on a setting that doesn't show particle effects... if you have them on it cannot be mistaken for anything else... in which case you move 5-10m away or to the side and have made said wizard waste 4 seconds of his PvP life)</span></b></p><p><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #009933;font-family: Times New Roman;">At any rate these things are apples and oranges.  Fission is a Nuke that requires casting time and no interruptions not to mention semi-stationary targets to take the hit.  Charmed mobs are a single click of the mouse or numberpad from any position, range or state of control.  Cannot be compared so please stop trying.</span></b></p><p><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #009933;font-family: Times New Roman;">I have only been killed by this mob once and needless to say I was near to irate.  I am fully aware of the difficulty a raidspec wizard has fighting enchanters in general (coercers are a little easier than illusionists imo)... add a pet that can do more in one hit than everything they throw at me in 7-10 seconds and there is just no possible way.  End of story.  I havebeen and will continue to /report and /petition anyone that I see doing this whether it be with my own eyes or through the logs of a trusted guildie/friend.</span></b></p><p><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #009933;font-family: Times New Roman;">Have a spine, coercers and L2P imo.  quit giving your class a bad name and own people the way your class was intended to.  Skillful use of control effects and reactive dmg.  Coercer in quality hands is one of the hardest fights in the game... or you could just be a fekkin nub and grab a pet to oneshot folks because you have cloth angst</span></b></p><p><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #009933;font-family: Times New Roman;">grow a pair</span></b></p>

Elephanton
01-30-2008, 10:28 AM
<cite>Izzypop wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Question #1) How is any class suppost to beat a coercer with every ability a coercer has after they take a 7-9k hit from the coercers pet?</p></blockquote><p>Answer: L2P, watch your surroundings, spot the coercer before he attacks you, СС the pet (root, feat, mezz, etc.), kill the coercer (takes a few seconds for most classes). Does it answer your question?</p><p>What is, in your opinion, the big differences between:- coercer 1-shotting enemy who does not pay attention, and- coercer not paying attention being one 1-shotted by other classes?I just don't get it.IMO, 1 shotters should be nerfed all across the board, not just granularly for 1 class.</p>

Harbringer Doom
01-30-2008, 12:26 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think you should read the whole thread before jumping on the troll bandwagon. Im in favour of these getting nerfed by at least 50%, if not more. I will, however, not regard it as an exploit unless I see proper evidence (which i dont regard Rippy's SS as).</blockquote>Oh yes, I know, someone who doesn't agree with your clearly well thought out and unassailable position is a "troll" and is "jumping on the bandwagon."  Really, I get it.  This exploit favors your class too much for you to sit down and rationally decide for yourself whether it is an exploit.   You need a GM to spoon feed you that decision, right?Really, I get it. No one who had any sense whatsoever needed "proper evidence" of the necromancers 100 hits in less than one second being an exploit when PvP launched.   It was easy for people, necros included, to see that it was not working as intended.  It didn't stop [Removed for Content] from using it though, and shrugging their shoulders and saying "I'm gonna wait until I have proper evidence its an exploit before treating it as such." BAM BAM BAM "Ha ha ha, I'm so awesome!" Coercers are now parking one-shot pets at sokocar posts with their buddy the evac bot, waiting for people to land and aggro the pet, pretty much one shotting most classes, then evacing, and people can't see something wrong with that.Its sad how lame you have to be to use such a mechanism, or defend people that do, because there is no "proper evidence" that it's an exploit.Its also pretty sad, after seven pages on the topic, not a single post from a dev or GM saying its working as intended, its not working as intended, or at the very least, they are looking into it.But seriously, what does anyone expect anyway, from the players, or the GMs...

Izzypop
01-30-2008, 12:41 PM
<cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Izzypop wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Question #1) How is any class suppost to beat a coercer with every ability a coercer has after they take a 7-9k hit from the coercers pet?</p></blockquote><p>Answer: L2P, watch your surroundings, spot the coercer before he attacks you<span style="color: #ff0000;"><b>(so between the options of a fair fight when we both spot each other at the same time, me jumping him, and him jumping me <u>you are saying I should not be able to win a fair fight</u>?), </b></span>СС the pet (root, feat, mezz, etc.)(<span style="color: #cc0000;">News flash genius: many classes say about 22 of them have sub par cc abilities to a coercer and we will be out CC'd in the fight.  Any nub coercer knows to stun/stiffle/mez/intterupt/root another player in a fight), </span>kill the coercer (takes a few seconds for most classes<span style="color: #ff0000;">)(News flash Genius: most non scout classes can't catch a coecer as he runs away with the 1 shot pet attacking our tail)</span>. Does it answer your question? <span style="color: #ff0000;">(no it doesn't How often do you actually loose in a fair fight when neither side is jumped and you have a 1 shot pet?)</span></p><p>What is, in your opinion, the big differences between:- coercer 1-shotting enemy who does not pay attention, and</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">THe coercer is exploiting a borken game mechanic yes I said exploiting because it is an expoit and even gms have said it's an expoit.</span></p><p>- coercer not paying attention being one 1-shotted by other classes?</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">It's broken class blance, try playing a solo guardian and learning what it's really like to be at the bottom of the barrel.</span>I just don't get it.IMO, 1 shotters should be nerfed all across the board, not just granularly for 1 class.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">1 Shoters should be nerfed across the board, but that would require overall class balance a difficult task.  Fixing 1 bugged pet problem is easy, you just fix it.  There is no reason the game should be held hostage by coercers until class balnace is fixed.</span></p></blockquote>

Harbringer Doom
01-30-2008, 01:07 PM
<cite>Izzypop wrote:</cite><blockquote><span style="color: #ff0000;">There is no reason the game should be held hostage by coercers until class balnace is fixed.</span></blockquote>I wouldn't go so far as to say "the game" is being held hostage by coercers, but certainly Kunzar Jungle is.Again, its no wonder how often people ask in Qeynos whether KJ2 is opened.

Dh
01-30-2008, 05:23 PM
<cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Izzypop wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><b>Explain to me how you are not exploiting.</b></p><p><img src="http://static3.filefront.com/images/personal/p/pletia/94130/qwkcvofpjf.jpg" border="0" alt="" width="309" height="123" /></p></blockquote>Personally, I think it is Photoshop fake.</blockquote><p>I saw this GM say this in chat while I was playing. This is not a fake screenshot. Their is no way that the pets are suppose to hit that hard.  The developers really don't care about PVP servers and im not surprised its still broke. level 70 EOF  fabled warlock PVP bracer "Diabolic Cuffs" root proc still doesn't work and they were released a year ago? There is still a item you can buy from the same merchant as the pumice stone for 100k status that will "remove xp debt" How long ago was xp debt removed from PVP servers? Revive zerging still exists...</p><p>People talking about fission:</p><p>At first when i got hit by fission for 8k I was angry ( Fission isn't scaled the same as Fusion )  The wizard has to stand close and aim the spell at the enemy (long cast time with big obvious graphic) for it to hit.  Even so... the damage IS too high.  But when you think about it, a brigand and other melee classes can do 8k damage to a clothy in the same time it takes to cast fission. Melee classes do not get interrupted / they can move while casting 5 times faster / hit almost everytime. Even with fission hitting extremely too hard, you must admit that melee are still more overpowered atm. You cannot simply step to the side and avoid melee class 8k damage in 4 seconds which happens very often.</p>

Izzypop
01-30-2008, 09:23 PM
<p>These guys don't have a leg to stand on, so all that is left to do is accuse me of making photo shop fakes and falsifying information.  It takes no effort to make those acusations out of the blue, but it takes a lot more to prove you have credibility.  In the mean time Q-town lags behind in the ability to quest and the only way to adapt is some guilds try their best to keep a KJ2 open so they can invite more q's into it.  Such is the fate of a pvp game when you let a single class dominate a zone.</p><p>You're right a bout fission  In 4.5 seconds a brigand could drop my guard when we was about 12k hp and full defensive spec without me ever leaving a stun lock.  Now that Im a zerk honestly fission is the least of my worries.  It's manashield that kills me, and any wizard without manashield that can actually get a fission off against me deserves to win.</p>

bladechef
01-31-2008, 04:07 AM
<p><span style="font-size: small;color: #009933;font-family: times new roman,times;"><b>That's the way it is, Rippy.  Any wizard that can successfully cast AND land a fission in PvP deserves to do 80%+ dmg to someone (or three "someone"s which is even more of an accomplishment) imo.  Outside of hectic grp vs grp (or larger) fighting the spell is almost a wash... although I did see some wizards in the gank groups spam-casting it at the sokokar posts while they camped em.  Some folks just don't care about PvP and all that matters is winning that token or some fame ...  or,  I suppose,  ruining someone else's gaming experience as I have heard a few that are just in it to [Removed for Content] others off for the sake of creating anger.</b></span></p><p><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #009933;font-family: Times New Roman;">It is all digression though.  The point is that some coercers continue to defend this because they are GiantpussdogDouchingtons while the REAL coercers in PvP refuse to take these mobs as a pet because they, along with Every Single Player Who Has Seen Them Used, know that this is a broken mechanic (period)</span></b></p>

Izzypop
01-31-2008, 10:13 AM
<p>I'll add that any coercer that eats a fission is outplayed by the wizzy.  Enchanters have great stuns stiffles and interupts.  The Wizard must...</p><p>A) Be able to cast at all.</p><p>B) Be able to cast fision for about 4.5 seconds uninterupted with a coercer on them.</p><p>C) Must stand still while casting fission while the coercer can easily just step out of fission range.</p><p>If a coercer gets into a fight with a wizzy and eats a fission the coercer is just plain outplayed, and the coercer needs to stop telling other players L2P.</p>

Saluzas
01-31-2008, 12:52 PM
Great post, hopefully this will be fixed soon.

Izzypop
02-04-2008, 02:54 PM
It's not looking like they will fix it in the next patch.  They came forward to show a green set of pvp armor, but I have seen no other word about pvp updates.

Hastur8
02-05-2008, 12:53 AM
<p>>>>There is no reason the game should be held hostage by coercers until class balnace is fixed.</p><p>The Corpse Candle in Bonemire is just as potent as this pet is. Everyone has been held hostage since day one - perhaps they didn't notice.</p>

-Arctura-
02-05-2008, 03:00 AM
(( i Will finally step in and say, Good post Izzypop. Well composed with plenty of data and information. Well laid out case you have here. I await a fix.<img src="http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g69/Arctura000/OB-sig.jpg" alt="" border="0" />

Roald
02-05-2008, 06:30 AM
People need to stop giving this thread random bumps.

Harbringer Doom
02-05-2008, 12:20 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>People need to stop giving this thread random bumps.</blockquote>I'm pretty sure thats what the mods are there for...People should feel free to post as often as they like to this post, as it is an issue that concerns the PvP community, and as long as the issue is being discussed, the chances increase that somewhere, at some point, someone who can do something about it will step forward. But I can understand why coercers would want the issue to die quietly.

bladechef
02-05-2008, 12:47 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>People need to stop giving this thread random bumps.</blockquote>I'm pretty sure thats what the mods are there for...People should feel free to post as often as they like to this post, as it is an issue that concerns the PvP community, and as long as the issue is being discussed, the chances increase that somewhere, at some point, someone who can do something about it will step forward. <span style="font-size: medium;">But I can understand why coercers would want the issue to die quietly</span>.</blockquote><span style="font-size: small;color: #009933;font-family: times new roman,times;"><b>... but ... Milambers and Elephantboy have been the voices of reason in this thread!  They can't want folks to stay in the dark about this obvious exploit... could they?!</b></span>

Roald
02-05-2008, 01:45 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>People need to stop giving this thread random bumps.</blockquote>I'm pretty sure thats what the mods are there for...People should feel free to post as often as they like to this post, as it is an issue that concerns the PvP community, and as long as the issue is being discussed, the chances increase that somewhere, at some point, someone who can do something about it will step forward. But I can understand why coercers would want the issue to die quietly.</blockquote>Theres a thing called Irony, clever people find it funny. I'll give you 10 guesses as to why my post was ironic.

Harbringer Doom
02-05-2008, 02:09 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>People need to stop giving this thread random bumps.</blockquote>I'm pretty sure thats what the mods are there for...People should feel free to post as often as they like to this post, as it is an issue that concerns the PvP community, and as long as the issue is being discussed, the chances increase that somewhere, at some point, someone who can do something about it will step forward. But I can understand why coercers would want the issue to die quietly.</blockquote>Theres a thing called Irony, clever people find it funny. I'll give you 10 guesses as to why my post was ironic.</blockquote> Irony and sarcasm are often implied by tone and body language, and are historically difficult to convey through the written word. So, when a coercer with his/her eyes squeezed tightly shut with his/her fingers in her ears yelling "LALALALALANOPROOFITSANEXPLOIT" strolls in and posts the comment you posted... one would be hard pressed to see the irony. But hey!  Lets hear some more about how clever you are!  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

Izzypop
02-06-2008, 12:46 PM
<p><b>PvP RULESET</b></p><ul><li>At long last, PvP Armor Sets are now available! Seek out Lady Arlen Sunbeam and Sir Drofecid Tops in Kylong Plains for more information. </li><li>Spread throughout the world, you can now find characters that give out pvp based writs. Tokens have been removed from player drops and are now obtained through the writ system. </li><li>Shrink effects will no longer work on PvP servers </li><li><span style="color: #ffff00;"><b>Charmed mobs should not be as powerful as they once were</b> </span></li><li>Transcribers should no longer give out temporary spells from the Necromancer Siphoning of Souls line</li><li>Coercers-Agonizing Silence line has had its stifle duration reduced</li></ul><p><span style="color: #ffff00;"><b>Is it an unneeded all around coercer nerf or a specific fix for the KJ disabling strike bug?</b></span></p>

Hastur8
02-06-2008, 11:39 PM
<p>>>> <b>Charmed mobs should not be as powerful as they once were</b> </p><p>Outstanding! </p><p>Good thing you guys got the torches and pitchforks over an unpopular class that is overpowered in one zone with one pet. No longer is the game being held hostage by the uber coercer!!!</p>

Rxmedic
02-06-2008, 11:41 PM
All around.Even in PVE.  My mage pet I charmed was nuking for 3K in PVE.  It used to nuke for 7-10K.

bladechef
02-07-2008, 01:35 AM
<p><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #009933;font-family: times new roman,times;">You don't think that might have something to do with the relative ease that coercers have in soloing endgame instances/dungeons??  Oh wait... folks asking for and being upset by the multitudes who took out their nub aggressions by exploiting a broken charmed mob's nerf... that's 100% of the reason.</span></b></p><p><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #009933;font-family: times new roman,times;">The stifle nerf is what should be the concern.  Charmed pets were ridiculous.  Even the little shaman frogs were hitting for over 3k in PvP.  That is a 'shaman' mob, solo, blue con and nuking as hard as a T8 wizard.  Right</span></b></p><p><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #009933;font-family: times new roman,times;">And for the record the Sathirians in KJ are still hitting wioth disabling strike for over 6k on a clothy.  The pitchforks didn't work it seems</span></b></p>

Izzypop
02-07-2008, 10:02 AM
<p><span style="color: #ffff00;">Send screenshots and info about disabling strike, screenshots and stuff.</span></p>

Roald
02-07-2008, 02:52 PM
<p>I was lucky enough to have a long chat with Senior Game Master Kimbial a few hours ago, so I can shed some light about Charmed pets (no he didn't come to suspend or warn me):</p><p>After GU42, It is not considered an exploit to charm any pet with disabling strike. It is not an exploit to use this pet in PvP, or to defend yourself with this pet if anyone attacks. Where it becomes an exploit is people purposely going around hunting with them (which was what I had been doing, seeing as the damage had been cut in half).</p><p>The issue is being 'passed' on to the devs, who hope to remedy it in the future. I then asked him about where i should draw the line with powerful pets, eg, if they can nuke for 1k? 2k? 4k? He said there was no pets other than the ones with disabiling strike that Sony had an issue with, but If someone thinks a pet is much too strong, they should report it.</p><p>Hope this clears up this thread.</p>

bladechef
02-07-2008, 03:04 PM
<p><span style="font-size: small;color: #009933;font-family: times new roman,times;"><b>Milambers!</b></span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;color: #009933;font-family: times new roman,times;"><b>even if it isn't an exploit (<i>I saw you today in KJ with a sathirian 'militae'. <u>KUDOS</u></i>) there are still other coercers in zone using the disabling strike mobs and still inflicting upto/exceeding 7500 hits.  I know you saw Ammonia out there this a.m. ... he took it 3 times during reet factioning each for more than 7k.  It may have been toned down, but still ridiculously powerful.  </b></span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;color: #009933;font-family: times new roman,times;"><b>What I am wondering is this:  If you were told it is ok to use them as defense, but not to hunt where do you draw the line??  If a coercer has this mob as a charmed pet and gets attacked it is ok, but if he engages first it is an exploit?  Seems fishy.  I think more should lead by example and refuse to take these mobs knowing that they are still not functioning properly and inflicting too much damage.  That is a huge good-faith expectation, but what it really comes down to is whether you're in it for the PvP or just killing folks by any means available  /shrug</b></span></p>

Zacarus
02-07-2008, 03:25 PM
Totally lame stance on this issue by SoE.  Coercers charm mobs, that's Coercer 101 curriculum.  Caveat enemy.I think its ridiculous that SoE considers it an exploit if a Coercer uses their god-given (ie, programmed) abilities for non-defensive purposes.And I'm a qeynosian.  I see no difference between this Tier 8 ability and an SK's HT in Tier 3, or a Fury's Starburst in Tier 4.  Let Coercers have their fun.  They still make great pin cushions as far as my Ranger is concerned.

Roald
02-07-2008, 05:02 PM
<cite>bladechef wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><span style="font-size: small;color: #009933;font-family: times new roman,times;"><b>Milambers!</b></span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;color: #009933;font-family: times new roman,times;"><b>even if it isn't an exploit (<i>I saw you today in KJ with a sathirian 'militae'. <u>KUDOS</u></i>) there are still other coercers in zone using the disabling strike mobs and still inflicting upto/exceeding 7500 hits.  I know you saw Ammonia out there this a.m. ... he took it 3 times during reet factioning each for more than 7k.  It may have been toned down, but still ridiculously powerful.  </b></span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;color: #009933;font-family: times new roman,times;"><b>What I am wondering is this:  If you were told it is ok to use them as defense, but not to hunt where do you draw the line??  If a coercer has this mob as a charmed pet and gets attacked it is ok, but if he engages first it is an exploit?  Seems fishy.  I think more should lead by example and refuse to take these mobs knowing that they are still not functioning properly and inflicting too much damage.  That is a huge good-faith expectation, but what it really comes down to is whether you're in it for the PvP or just killing folks by any means available  /shrug</b></span></p></blockquote><p>Yea, I'm guessing it's a difficult situation for them. I think he line was 'If they see you with this pet and they decide to attack, then it's their loss'. I know I definately won't be using these pets again, but I guess the situation will be very difficult to take any decisive action, unless a GM actually gets hit by one of these <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I think the reet wizards can hit for a decent amount, so I'll go back to using them.</p><p>U sure ammonia got hit got over 7k? Not once today did I get more than a 5k hit iirc, I'll check logs but i think it was averaging around 4000-4500. </p><p>P.S. It's Milite <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>