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Ze
12-12-2007, 10:43 PM
Seriously... beautiful change. If anything, I wish pvp kills gave more exp, to get those lev lockers out of the way.

Eluzay
12-12-2007, 11:05 PM
<cite>Zerp wrote:</cite><blockquote>Seriously... beautiful change. If anything, I wish pvp kills gave more exp, to get those lev lockers out of the way.</blockquote>I would love to level a character on nothing but pvp kills, now THAT is hard core

Kulharr
12-12-2007, 11:47 PM
<p>you guys are fools.  Now if pvp gave as much aa experience and you only needed 100 kills to get rewards then I might now be as unhappy with this sad, [I cannot control my vocabulary] whipped change to pvp.</p><p>all you guys whining about dying to another player should not be on this server in the first place.  But you have your wish.</p><p>The change negates any option of balanced pve/pvp play, offers no aa, so if you pvp your way up the tiers you'll be useless against those who pve'd up the tiers...  All ganking and pvp will now move form low tiers to end game and earlier tiers will be devoid of pvp and pve as everyone races to end game... And no one will be able to use the level 20-60 pvp rewards... But hey yah.  You're right.  Great change care bears.  i wish you never set foot on the pvp server.  Clearly you could never handle it... But as always the whiners and the players who can't handle a rough start got your way and beat out us actual pvp players.</p><p>Althought the solution to me would have been simple, you don't wanna be ganked in the low tiers.  Then move to tier 3 and 4... Which could easily be done in a day or two.</p><p>I loathe those who begged for this horrible change.  Change because you guys couldn't handle twinked out lowbie pvp now low pvp will cease to exsist all together and a balanced pvp/pve play style no longer exsists.  Thanks guys for ruining the pvp servers when it's clear you should have remained in the pve server.</p>

Spyderbite
12-12-2007, 11:54 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Change because you guys couldn't handle twinked out lowbie pvp now low pvp will cease to exsist all together and a balanced pvp/pve play style no longer exsists.</p></blockquote>I disagree. I expect T2 PvP to thrive now the way it should. Players who are of the same experience and equally equipped fighting each other while learning the PvP system.Seeing the revive screen before a newb even sees their attacker is not education. Its humiliation. T1-3 were designed at the levels they were so that players could progressively learn about their class' skills and the battle system. It was not designed to provide entertainment for the seasoned vets who couldn't cut it in T7 and found it fun to play "God" in the lower levels.

Kulharr
12-12-2007, 11:57 PM
<p>"I expect T2 PvP to thrive now the way it should"</p><p>You are gravely overestimating the ammount of players that are actually on this server.  and the higher tiers will simply dominate and own all the players who leveled up by pvping as.</p><p>a.) they will have hardly any aa's compared to older players before this change</p><p>b.) lack any pvp reward gear to complete.</p><p>Then you'll just all be complaining about the mass twinking and unfariness of high level players as you'll be getting rocked in a couple hits.</p>

Snosael
12-12-2007, 11:57 PM
<p>I agree with ya Kulharin.</p><p>As to lvling off pvp exp.   Im doing it.   Im coming for all those crybaby T8s.  Im getting 5% exp per kill and all i have to do is pop someome once with an arrow.</p><p>The only thing thats gonna save you T8s from me is more crying to SOE and another nerf.  This time to pvp exp =)</p>

KetTarma
12-13-2007, 12:02 AM
This is a totally awesome change. I've rolled on Nagafen and am already getting a decent amount of kills. The whiners will either figure out how to play fairly or quit. Either way, we win <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Mwahaha
12-13-2007, 12:03 AM
<cite>Snosael wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I agree with ya Kulharin.</p><p>As to lvling off pvp exp.   Im doing it.   Im coming for all those crybaby T8s.  Im getting 5% exp per kill and all i have to do is pop someome once with an arrow.</p><p>The only thing thats gonna save you T8s from me is more crying to SOE and another nerf.  This time to pvp exp =)</p></blockquote>Nice to see someone man enough to stay throughout this change and level up.

Snosael
12-13-2007, 12:04 AM
the WHINERS apparently couldnt even figure out HOW to play,  thats why this happened.

Spyderbite
12-13-2007, 12:04 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>Then you'll just all be complaining about the mass twinking and unfariness of high level players as you'll be getting rocked in a couple hits. </blockquote>Not I. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I just dinged 45 today on my main.. have played for 16 months. I'm in no hurry.. and when I get there.. I'm sure I'll  adapt. I have no problem with change. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Kulharr
12-13-2007, 12:53 AM
<p>How can you people be so ignorant and blind to not see what's going to happen?</p><p>Rather then dealing with the current lowbie twink situation, you had many options.</p><p>a.) level past 20 quick (easy) b.) Do a tone of easy quests to wrack up the aa's to compete "easy" c.) pay a visit to kunark and get all the uber gear ...  b and c instantly took care of twinking, once I did that twinks were not a problem anymore, all you needed was aa's and kunark gear and it was a non issue.  if you did that and it was still a problem you could have just easily leveled into tier 3 and 4.</p><p>Now the problem you've created for yourself.  is either a.) No one is going to quest anymore and just pvp and get up to the high tiers and get completely demolished by players with high AA "something you will find much harder to optain at the high levels as quests are harder and much fewer in number" and you wont have access to pvp reward gear for a long time because your faction standing will most likely still be in the negative.</p><p>You'll be completeing with players with high end pvp reward and high AA and then what will you do?  the problem will be even worse and amplified, but this time you cannot simply out level them to a further tier, as this is end game.  You'll be getting owned constantly by twinks so you'll never be able to get pvp rewards and you'll have a much harder time getting AA's ... then your back to square one and can start whining and moaning all over again how you can't win any battles and twinking sucks.  Yet had you taken the time to level-lock and level and aa thru questing you would have most likely had enough aa's and some pvp reward gear to compete...</p><p>Now, I can garantee you this is what is going to happen.  People will race to high tier pvp only to find out they're getting owned by seasoned players who reached the higher tier through questing and have AA's and pvp gear ... Or you'll find the lower tiers nearly lifeless because the population of nagafen is not that high, and people will be leveling up fast, or not pvping at all and doing quests as they prepare for what awaits them end game.</p><p>Can't you see that?  Your going to race to tier 8 with the pvp xp you begged for and your going to get demolished by 70-80 level twinks instead of 20 level twinks, except this time you wont have an easy solution to avoid it.  Enjoy, for those of you who cannot see that.  you're blind.</p>

Muraazi
12-13-2007, 01:05 AM
You guys can cry about the change all day or you can try to get something out of it. How about asking SoE to lower the requirements for lower lvl pvp rewards (since this seems to be the biggest complaint from lockers)? I think, in light of this change, they might listen to that suggestion.

Ze
12-13-2007, 01:07 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>How can you people be so ignorant and blind to not see what's going to happen?</p><p>Rather then dealing with the current lowbie twink situation, you had many options.</p><p>a.) level past 20 quick (easy) b.) Do a tone of easy quests to wrack up the aa's to compete "easy" c.) pay a visit to kunark and get all the uber gear ...  b and c instantly took care of twinking, once I did that twinks were not a problem anymore, all you needed was aa's and kunark gear and it was a non issue.  if you did that and it was still a problem you could have just easily leveled into tier 3 and 4.</p><p>Now the problem you've created for yourself.  is either a.) No one is going to quest anymore and just pvp and get up to the high tiers and get completely demolished by players with high AA "something you will find much harder to optain at the high levels as quests are harder and much fewer in number" and you wont have access to pvp reward gear for a long time because your faction standing will most likely still be in the negative.</p><p>You'll be completeing with players with high end pvp reward and high AA and then what will you do?  the problem will be even worse and amplified, but this time you cannot simply out level them to a further tier, as this is end game.  You'll be getting owned constantly by twinks so you'll never be able to get pvp rewards and you'll have a much harder time getting AA's ... then your back to square one and can start whining and moaning all over again how you can't win any battles and twinking sucks.  Yet had you taken the time to level-lock and level and aa thru questing you would have most likely had enough aa's and some pvp reward gear to compete...</p><p>Now, I can garantee you this is what is going to happen.  People will race to high tier pvp only to find out they're getting owned by seasoned players who reached the higher tier through questing and have AA's and pvp gear ... Or you'll find the lower tiers nearly lifeless because the population of nagafen is not that high, and people will be leveling up fast, or not pvping at all and doing quests as they prepare for what awaits them end game.</p><p>Can't you see that?  Your going to race to tier 8 with the pvp xp you begged for and your going to get demolished by 70-80 level twinks instead of 20 level twinks, except this time you wont have an easy solution to avoid it.  Enjoy, for those of you who cannot see that.  you're blind.</p></blockquote><p>You are making too many assumptions. One, I am an avid PvPer, have been since SZ was opened on EQ and note - I chose the pvp server with no level restrictions... and I would do the same here, given the option.</p><p>There are a couple of things I am afraid you might be missing.</p><p>1) the imbalance is worst al lower levels. Once you get to T8, both you and your opponent have similar rates of earnings. When a newbie in T2 competes with a twink with a main in T8, there is no comparison. The old system, with locking, forced you to level once char to 70 (now, 80) BEFORE you started your pvp char, if you really wanted to compete. I agree - there will always be twinks - but I think that the unbalance is stronger at lower tiers. Plus,  don't mind the unbalanced fight as much as I mind seeing people quit - see point 3. </p><p>2) You say, level out of T2. I say, level up with a new char. I mean, since low levs are so fast, why not roll a new char to compete in T2, if that is what you wish doing? Sure, you won't be able to twink as much, but it sure will make fights more balanced and more fun for everyone... </p><p>3) You talk about whining... I never have, nor is just the carebears that are hailing this change. Truth is, I don't mind dying to anyone who spent more time than me in the game - what I mind is seeing newbies quit left and right because they are sick of being ganked. I am convinced more people will play on pvp servers and I think that is great. </p>

Snowlywhite
12-13-2007, 01:18 AM
are you real?dude, similar rate of earnings of what? Yeah, you can buy end game masters and that's that. Rest of it... who cares how many plats you have? it won't buy you either the raid gear or the pvp gear. It writes right there: "no trade". Nor did I ever seen aa for sale on the broker.in the future, anyone with a brain will just quit when hitting 80 after supposedly enjoying the pvp till then(probably happening once in a blue moon anyway) when he'll realize that, in order to be somewhat competitive he has to spend the next 6 months gettin' beaten left right and center till he actually acquires faction/gear one way or another. Or till he gets aa/gear if he pvped till then.even with max. faction, max. aa and a class with track I thought about 2-3 months of gettin' a constant beating when hitting end game till I'd gear up...and as a new player - if you can't read the forums before buying/making your 1st char and you don't have the stomach to get beaten constantly, try a pve server 1st. When I bought the game 4 months ago I was wondering if I shouldn't roll a pve char 1st... was proved that the "evergank" was just a totally overblown outta proportions theory and nothin' more.P.S. - and to the guy above who thinks he'll adapt - no offence, but with 57 kills/265 deaths in 16 months I'm 100% sure you won't have to adapt. You'll just keep the same ratio... with some luck.And adapt to what? I can't adapt to gettin' same xp from killing 2 bots as I get from turning in 1 quest(again - at lvl. 42, I don't want to think what it'd be at lvl. 20); eventually I can evac. away at the 1st sign of a q... Nor do I see a reason to adapt to a change that basically throws out what I worked for 2 months, namely getting faction for pvp gear only to see now mastercrafted having about 50% more stats. then the pvp gear... heck, even sense of humour takes a break sometimes.Honestly, if you ppl. don't want to pvp, why are you on a pvp server... heck, this game is supposed to be good a pve, go roll on a pve server and /duel away...

Kulharr
12-13-2007, 02:01 AM
<p>All you needed to do to compete with lvl 20 twinkers is lock at 10, do quests, get AA's and get all the new fancy kunark gear.  I did that and I had no issues with twinkers after that.  Kunark Gear + AA's took care of lowbie twinking, once I did that I could compete on even ground.</p><p>You seem to be forgetting nagafen is a year and a half old.  players that are in tier 7 and 8 have been playing for awhile, they have aa's, they have pvp rewards, they are all twinked out and godly... And you think they you can race to tier 7 and 8 on combat experience, be severly lacking in AA without any pvp gear and you expect "balanced" combat.... You're in for a shock... Everyone currently in that tier are twinks, far more twinked out then level 20... But you have the choice to counter act that atleast in the lowbie levels with kunark gear to balance out the pvp gear and super easy and fast quests for AA's.</p><p>I am not being presumpious, you don't believe me.  Race yourself to tier 7 and 8 on pvp experience and see for yourself what happens and maybe after getting your [I cannot control my vocabulary] whalloped 100 times you'll see that this did not solve the problem.  it just condened it to end game and made it worse.  It's not as if ALL players on Nagafen are in the low tiers, they're are many seasoned twinked out pvpers in the high tiers.</p><p>Unless you for-go all pvping and focusin on leveling through PVE to get your AA's, you might "might" be able to copete with them despite the fact you wont have pvp rewards... Even if you do pvp all the way and do not do a single quest, you MIGHT have enough faction for lvl 20 pvp rewards, unfortunatly those wont help you at level 70.</p><p>Trust me, you are in for a shock if you honestly believe once you get to the high tiers you'll be able to compete and kill seasoned AA, pvp rewarded twinked out end game pvpers... It's going to be worse... MUCH worse then what you saw at level 20, and you wont have an easy way out... You had an easy way out in the low tiers.  You guys chose to whine and got what you asked for... Now see first hand what your free ride to end game tiers will get you once you get there.   If you believe the majority of high tier players are not twinked out, lack aa and good gear and you'll be able to take them out on even ground then you're gravely mistaken.  I am not trying to be a jerk I am just telling you how it is.</p><p>Then again, you guys can just whine somemore and then maybe soe will remove AA's and pvp gear from the server to help "balance things out"</p>

HerbertWalker
12-13-2007, 02:23 AM
<p>Soon it will be a bunch of [Removed for Content] running around T2-6 doing PvE.  If any of them actually get <u>too</u> strong actually fight in the war, they will powerlevel themself right into T8 as a total [Removed for Content] himself.</p><p>I'm 40 now, so how many orange/yellow scouts do I need to solo to get to 50?    How fast do you think that an active PvPr goes from 20 to 30?   It's just dumb to tear through the levels like that.   It's not enough PvP.   Way less than today.... way.</p>

Mighty Melvor
12-13-2007, 02:48 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>How can you people be so ignorant and blind to not see what's going to happen?</p><p>Rather then dealing with the current lowbie twink situation, you had many options.</p><p>a.) level past 20 quick (easy) b.) Do a tone of easy quests to wrack up the aa's to compete "easy" c.) pay a visit to kunark and get all the uber gear ...  b and c instantly took care of twinking, once I did that twinks were not a problem anymore, all you needed was aa's and kunark gear and it was a non issue.  if you did that and it was still a problem you could have just easily leveled into tier 3 and 4.</p><p>Now the problem you've created for yourself.  is either a.) No one is going to quest anymore and just pvp and get up to the high tiers and get completely demolished by players with high AA "something you will find much harder to optain at the high levels as quests are harder and much fewer in number" and you wont have access to pvp reward gear for a long time because your faction standing will most likely still be in the negative.</p><p>You'll be completeing with players with high end pvp reward and high AA and then what will you do?  the problem will be even worse and amplified, but this time you cannot simply out level them to a further tier, as this is end game.  You'll be getting owned constantly by twinks so you'll never be able to get pvp rewards and you'll have a much harder time getting AA's ... then your back to square one and can start whining and moaning all over again how you can't win any battles and twinking sucks.  Yet had you taken the time to level-lock and level and aa thru questing you would have most likely had enough aa's and some pvp reward gear to compete...</p><p>Now, I can garantee you this is what is going to happen.  People will race to high tier pvp only to find out they're getting owned by seasoned players who reached the higher tier through questing and have AA's and pvp gear ... Or you'll find the lower tiers nearly lifeless because the population of nagafen is not that high, and people will be leveling up fast, or not pvping at all and doing quests as they prepare for what awaits them end game.</p><p>Can't you see that?  Your going to race to tier 8 with the pvp xp you begged for and your going to get demolished by 70-80 level twinks instead of 20 level twinks, except this time you wont have an easy solution to avoid it.  Enjoy, for those of you who cannot see that.  you're blind</p></blockquote><p>I continue to see people claim that PvP is dead because now the T2 twinks don't and won't have any AA?  Um..how did the twinks get AA before the update?  Oh, that's right, PvE.  Last time I checked, that portion of the game is still there.</p><p>I also have a locked toon at 18.  I will continue to PvP and quest/name kill etc... for AA.  All this gloom and doom about being forced to 80 rings hollow.  </p>

HerbertWalker
12-13-2007, 03:06 AM
<p>If you want to go out and play this game like you are a soldier or warrior of Qeynos, killing and being killed, you will level up so fast, and with no AA.   I believe that is the complaint - pvp brings way too much exp, and zero AA.    The change discourages pvp in tiers below T8.   That's boring.</p>

Rajasa
12-13-2007, 11:52 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>you guys are fools.  Now if pvp gave as much aa experience and you only needed 100 kills to get rewards then I might now be as unhappy with this sad, [I cannot control my vocabulary] whipped change to pvp.</p><p>all you guys whining about dying to another player should not be on this server in the first place.  But you have your wish.</p><p>The change negates any option of balanced pve/pvp play, offers no aa, so if you pvp your way up the tiers you'll be useless against those who pve'd up the tiers...  All ganking and pvp will now move form low tiers to end game and earlier tiers will be devoid of pvp and pve as everyone races to end game... And no one will be able to use the level 20-60 pvp rewards... But hey yah.  You're right.  Great change care bears.  i wish you never set foot on the pvp server.  Clearly you could never handle it... But as always the whiners and the players who can't handle a rough start got your way and beat out us actual pvp players.</p><p>Althought the solution to me would have been simple, you don't wanna be ganked in the low tiers.  Then move to tier 3 and 4... Which could easily be done in a day or two.</p><p>I loathe those who begged for this horrible change.  Change because you guys couldn't handle twinked out lowbie pvp now low pvp will cease to exsist all together and a balanced pvp/pve play style no longer exsists.  Thanks guys for ruining the pvp servers when it's clear you should have remained in the pve server.</p></blockquote><p>Kulharin... No offense. But you are posting on several topics after stating you already quit the game over the change. I'm confused?</p><p>It's certainly your right to post and you have valid arguments in what you say but... If you quit without even giving the changes a chance, what does that say about you?</p><p>You already have everything nicely figured out. But you're a quitter none the less.</p>

Darman81
12-13-2007, 12:59 PM
<p>Hey, please just tone down the xp!</p><p>Is that too much to ask?</p><p>Even people who are for this change are having a fit!</p><p>Am I the only one who noticed people arent engaging in combat!</p><p>Two of us killed a group of three greens after being attacked and netted 12% xp.</p><p>This is why people wont engage!</p><p>Funny thing is that the guy I grouped with was an advocate of the change until he saw how much xp he got for defending himself!</p><p>He immediately logged off his character and said he wont play him until something is toned down.</p><p>Please, people Im not trying to cry here but I would like to think there is a happy medium!</p><p>I really dont want to have to wait to T8 to pvp!</p>

mattmandude
12-13-2007, 01:00 PM
It's still everquest folks. If you don't like playing the RPG part of an RPG, then go play a FPS.*EDIT* I don't care if the lockers quit, they didn't do any good for the server.

Bloodfa
12-13-2007, 01:07 PM
Wow. I can't believe all those guys in T8 (something the majority of the quitters know nothing about, by the way) all have 140 AP's. Unreal. Those fully mastered and fabled 80's must be unstoppable. So much for the tokens I've collected, as they obviously were haxxored. News flash guys: there are a ton of level 80 players out there with max everything that can't play for [Removed for Content] unless they have a massive numerical advantage, and even more sub-80 players that have 100-120 AP's, treasured gear, zero masters except the ones you get at certain levels, and they can kick the living crap out of the guys that can kill the alleged top dogs with maxxed everything. I only wish they'd address the "hmmm, we killed those Dreads and nobody could have dented their title" thing. If you've actually played in T8 for more than 2 days, and actually experienced what it's like, your opinion on what it's like is a bit more valid than someone running on supposition. If somebody sucks at the game, giving them all the benefits in the world won't make them suck any less. I don't understand the whole "ZOMG!! I need the full set of all the PvP gear to compete!!!" If you win, great. If you lose ... well, unless you actually were stupid enough to not bank before heading out, the only thing lost is bragging rights. Seriously. AP's are still gained the same way. Does anybody remember what it was like two years ago? Or on launch?

Rajasa
12-13-2007, 01:36 PM
<cite>mattmandude wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's still everquest folks. If you don't like playing the RPG part of an RPG, then go play a FPS.*EDIT* I don't care if the lockers quit, they didn't do any good for the server.</blockquote><p>Well stated Matt... I couldn't agree more.</p><p>And.. Just a side note for everyone. Because a game has pvp as a feature, doesn't necessarily mean all you do is run around killing each other over and over. The "game" was designed as an RPG. Playing a character in a fantasy world with all the trimmings.</p><p>Being able to battle other players brings an element of excitement to the play that straight pve servers don't offer. But killing each other over and over again is NOT the purpose of the game.</p><p>Teenagers will never get it. I'm wasting my breadth.</p>

Elephanton
12-13-2007, 01:42 PM
On 48, XP bar barely moves from killing yellow solo. Tone down even more? Hmm I don't think so.

Kulharr
12-13-2007, 01:45 PM
<p>Yes the pve aspect of the game is still here.  But if you pvp casually you'll be missing out on half of it compared to what it was before, due to the extreme rate of xp gain from pvp.  If you hardcore pvp then expect to miss out on 3/4's of it.</p><p>Even without any combat xp enabled at all you still miss out on a fair chunk of pve and content.  Add pvp xp and you can double that, in tier 1-3, even killing 5-10 players per level results in pretty much half the needed xp to level.</p><p>Yes the pve aspect is still there, but the more pvp you do, the less you'll be able to pve and the more quests and content you'll simply outlevel before getting around too.  basicly the more pvp you do over pve means you'll be weaker in the long run in pvp and that's a terrible system for pvp.  You level up insanely fast in this game.  I think SOE just wants players to rush to end game as fast as possible so they can focus on end game content while mid-range and low-end content is meaningless and trivial.  It's about 8 times easier and faster to level now then it was at launch.  The more you pvp, the less you can pve, and the less you pve means you'll have less AA to compete in pvp.</p><p>as for "It's still everquest folks. If you don't like playing the RPG part of an RPG, then go play a FPS."  That's why they have PVE servers my friend, pvp servers were never for the faint of heart and [Removed for Content], you moved over here, couldn't cut the hardcore pvp feel and take the time to learn how to compete with twinks, then [I cannot control my vocabulary], whined and moaned until SOE catered to your cries.  Hopefully enough of us on the other end of the spectrum will persuade them to actually balance this system out to an appropriate level rather then 15% xp gain for pvp in the lower tiers.</p><p>When i got here I was just the same, I whined about lowbie twinks.  Then i took one day to do all the Kunark quests and lowbie twinking was no longer a problem, I could compete just fine, apparently that was too much for you, and whining was so much easier rather then actually trying to do something about it in game, typical of carebears who belong on pve servers, not pvp servers.   I realized that early enough and simple asked people the question "how can I compete" I followed their simple advice and it took me a single day to get on competeting grounds for lowbie twinks.</p><p>I wouldn't have minded this change at all if pvp rewards were adjusted in balance with this change, as of now you can't get them anymore and if level of opponent and vitality were irrelevant to how much xp you earned.  If it was around 1-2% per kill, I would have been fine with the system.  I am not saying they need to remove it, they need to balance it.  And for those of you who think 10% xp per pvp kill is a good thing, well you're simply morons and I can't convince you otherwise.</p><p>You think PVP is rough here? obviously you had never played UO, back when a pk could kill you and take every single item in your possession and twinks and gank squads were in ever corner of the world.  Eventually this was moved to a pvp server.</p>

Sidhartha
12-13-2007, 01:53 PM
<p>I tried playing with the new PVP rules but I really don't see any point in it at all.  Killing someone in PVP gives tons of xp but no aa...[Removed for Content]?  So basically the more people you kill, the worse your character gets and you can only have a good character if you don't PVP at all.  All of my friends have cancelled their accounts and my guilds are all but empty.  The only way this game is even still playable is if you don't PVP and considering the fact that there have always been servers for that anyway I'm really baffled by this decision.  I'm off to play another game guys...good luck to all of you who stay with finding anyone to kill...lol.  SOE is really good at destroying great games.  EQ II has already fallen from the #2 to the #7 most played Online game and it's about to plummit even farther.</p><p>Seeing as how SOE is also playing the communist role and deleting all negative posts I don't expect this one to stay up even though I wasn't trying to be negative...I'm simply giving my honest opinion.</p>

Mwahaha
12-13-2007, 01:58 PM
Goodbye random level locker #56219.

Kneemin
12-13-2007, 02:00 PM
Good luck m8, I'm sorry to say I agree that this update has effectively killed pvp for all but a slim number of noobs and the lvl 80s who wanted more meat.  Anyone who wanted to enjoy the game was forced to choose to pvp or build a char = BS

Darman81
12-13-2007, 02:02 PM
<p>Obviously, I am not a 48 so maybe your correct!</p><p>But on my level 20 thats what i got. Even tested it again on a solo green and netted 6%!</p><p>I then logged into my 38 and netted less than 1% for a green conned kill in EL. [8 level zone]</p><p>Ok, I can live with that but my point is the xp gain for low tier xp is way to high!</p><p>Hopefully SOE will tweak this so I can atleast enjoy my 20's a little longer!</p><p>I </p>

voxranger
12-13-2007, 02:03 PM
<p>Speaking as someone who rolled his first character on a pvp server, and who then got frustrated with the t2 and t3 ganking and tried pve for a day (to learn my character) and promtly quit the pve server, I can tell you I support the changes. I have now leveled into t8 where, yes, I am being attacked on a regular basis by groups of 75's and up. I have fallen from Desy to Hunter -ahhhg (despite the fact I am a scout, i do not spend my whole day evacing every time a group of fprs hits my radar)!</p><p>But here is the difference: at this level, I accept the nuances of game and have the knowledge and experience to play my character much better. With a full range of ca's, legendary gear, and even a few fabled items picked up from raids and hq's, I can at least compete with cunning and skill. Part of the fun in ROK is completing your quest lines while trying to stay alive let alone adding kills.</p><p>This change is going the help the game as a whole. Now, all classes and espeically those such as enchanters, bards, etc. will have the time to learn their characters and form social relationships that will enable them to succeed in pvp without sacrificing the intrinsic group nature of their character.</p><p>I have never locked, never twinked, and have always pvp'd while out and about. My aa has been always been near cap.</p><p>For those level locked twinks who think the game is ruined, I believe they will find pvp in rok is much more fun - more ca's, more challenging opponents, bigger zones that require better hunting skills, and the ability to obtain quality gear without having to pawn newbs. Of course, there are still those hiding in the shadows of quest npc's hoping to score some easy coin and drops - but thats ok - and at this level, its fun to plan for those kinds of encounters! Its a far cry from raiding the pockets of some poor little new who barely has enough silver to buy food and drink than a t8 character wisend to the dangers of running around the zone.</p><p>Personally, I would love to level off pvp kills now (course the pvp exp at this level is trivial) - but, i still need coin and again, people learn real quick to ship thier valuables off whenever they get a chance - again, not something easily done in the lower levels. </p><p>Overall, im my experience as someone who learned (and who is still learning) to play the game on a pvp server, I find the pvp experience so much more enjoyable and challenging the higher I advanced in my levels.  Personally, I never understood how camping in t2 or t3 and mashing the same 4 to6 buttons for months on end simply to acquire gear and aa to become more untouchable in that tier could be fun. </p><p>Just my personal opinion, but for me, making the difficult choices regarding gear and aa through the leveling process is part of what makes the game challenging and fun. </p><p>For all those crying "I quit" - I hope you'll give pvp in the higher levels a shot. You will get pawned like t2, but you also have the ability to hold your own. For those who simply enjoyed t2 and t3 as an arena game where you fed on newbs and new characters - good luck and I hope to see you back soon <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Kulharr
12-13-2007, 02:05 PM
I'm starting to think we don't need to quit, SOE caters to whiners it seems, that's all the carebears who shouldn't have been on this server in the first place did... Rather then taking a day to do the Kunark quest series to be on level ground with twinks, they just kept complaining until change was put in... If our side complains enough maybe they'll actually balance the system out,  re-vamp pvp reward system and make it so level and vitality is irrelevant... No more then 1-2% should be awared per pvp kill, for those of you who think that 10%+ xp is good for a pvp kill, please just leave the pvp server and go back to a pve server and leave the hardcore pvpers and the casual pve/pvpers in peace

Kulharr
12-13-2007, 02:14 PM
<p>1.) Do the Kunark quests and you wont get owned in low level pvp</p><p>2.) No thanks, I'm gonna continue to whine and moan like the carebears who couldn't take the time to simply ask and learn how to compete in pvp, because I don't want to be forced to miss out on half the games content and quests because I casually pvp.  I was never a hardcore pvp locker who twinked and ganked newbies, I was a casual pvp/pve'er ... This ignorant little fools think that this implemented change only effected the hardcore level locker twinks... yes it did that, but they also destroyed the lives of the casual pvp/pve'r who enjoy questing and seeing the content while pvping along the way ... </p><p>They basicly destroyed 2 popular playstyles in favor of 1 playstyle... The newb playstyle of carebears who should have stayed on the pve server and couldn't take the time to learn how to compete and do the newbie Kunark quests.  I was like them when i came here.  i whined about the twinks.  Then i did the Kunark quest series and it was no longer an issue... SOE caters to whiners, not logic, that much is obvious.  So I'm thinking of people from these 2 types of playstyles that have been killed by this change whine enough then SOE much actually balance this system and pvp rewards properly.  1-2% xp gain at most, regardless of tier, level and vitality.</p>

Darman81
12-13-2007, 02:16 PM
<p>Well put Kulharrin, SOE going to such extremes on the xp gain was uncalled for. </p><p>Here I am just waiting to see the update notes saying" xp gain for low tier pvp  has been adjusted ."</p>

Murrdawg69
12-13-2007, 02:16 PM
<p>heh I knew this would happen, and thanks to SoE we now have 2 Lucan D'Lere servers, if the point of the new changes was to increase RP and PvE only they got what they wanted. Other than that pvp gives too much exp for the first 30 levels, even my 25-32 get anywhere from 5-10% exp... the exp is so random its weird, I killed the exact same level, two different people and got 2 diff exp per kill off each. I would seariously be happy with 1%exp per kill in ANY tier, pvp gear is now not even gettable. There goes the population! Already i'm seeing less and less pvp, just more people unhappy and leveling up 1 or two of their toons just for something to do... I have found a simple solution to t2 pvp with the new changes, just do what I do, since exp is too high to kill anything, just skip t2 pvp alltogether, RUN from anything and everything and always stay out of combat.. Whatever cry more because people wont engage, theres always something to cry about, I need AA before I need faction, so just avoid pvp and do pve... it will pay off in t3+ you wont be so low on AA as compared to most of the people with full faction, fully geared lvl 25++ 25 is the biggest level for most averaged twinks, cause people frown upon killing lvl 12's-20 so make a 25 and kill 21's whatever. But I for one have seariously gave up on pvp until my chars are high enough that faction is going to give me a level every 15-20 kills.... Im just wondering how many ppl are able to grind up super fast to lvl 40+ now with so much exp rolling in.</p><p>Im not wanting people with level 70+ chars to respond to this cause frankly you have nothing to worry about sitting at lvl 80 with your twinkage waiting to gank us leveling up. Yes I am too leveling one of my unused toons to t7+ even though i dont like the pvp looks like most of us will be forced into that tier. mind you nothing was wrong with t4-t6 pvp. Which was way better than endgame. ALL of this is imo of course... Hope I didn't [Removed for Content] off too many people with this. But I know for a fact of at least 10-20 of my good friends who have been playing on venekor since the start like me, that have up and quit and/or presently looking for a new MMO, one where the pvp isnt switched to carebear mode.</p>

tshook
12-13-2007, 02:17 PM
<p>Here is what will happen with the new change.</p><p>First Sony will fix the xp.  Way to much for pvp at them moment.  </p><p>You will Level (OMG!?)  Slowly.</p><p>You will be forced to pve for AA. (Xp disabled, but still get xp for discoveries).  You may or may not be getting pvp armor/weaps.  I forsee the cost of these dropping dramatically.</p><p>By the time your 22 gets to 80 (just as it was for 70) All the 80's will be rolling on their lowbies cause they are friggen bored out of their collective minds anyways.</p><p>Level 80 pvp will not suck, because you will be rolling a new toon anyways cause you are also bored out of your mind (nothing to do when you have done it all).</p><p>Now, when enough of you get to 80 and start gearing up, PVP will start ramping up again for you.   By this time you will have 2 or 3 toons at 80 just as you had 6 toons at 22 so you can pick the right toon for the right situation.</p><p>But, Most importantly, I will be able to roll a freep illusionist. and my defiler wont suck as much.</p><p>But seriously, I think the only hard core PVP occuring now is on these forums.  My defiler pwns all of you on the forums.</p>

Harbringer Doom
12-13-2007, 02:20 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>This ignorant little fools think that this implemented change only effected the hardcore level locker twinks... yes it did that, <b>but they also destroyed the lives of the casual pvp/pve'r </b>who enjoy questing and seeing the content while pvping along the way ... </p></blockquote>Whoa.  Might be time to take a step back ...

Rattfa
12-13-2007, 02:24 PM
2 points.1. Since when you have played a game, RPG or otherwise, that doesn't get harder as you progress to the end? I haven't. Level ranges increase as a reflection of the challenge you have to face. If you cannot accept that fact, then you dont have what it takes on a PvP server. 2. Somewhat following on from point 1, with diminishing returns in place a lvl 80 in mastercrafted/legendary (90%-max aa)(where you should be when you ding 80) is far closer to a 80 in fabled than a island newb is to a t2 twink in full fabled and max AA. You took what you saw as something unfair (end game challenge) and moved it to the START game, thus preventing new players from progressing. They either quit, or were forced to level past you...preventing them to play how they wanted to, JUST so you could play how you wanted to. Selfish much?

Zacarus
12-13-2007, 02:27 PM
<cite>tshook wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Here is what will happen with the new change.</p><p>First Sony will fix the xp.  Way to much for pvp at them moment.  </p><p>You will Level (OMG!?)  Slowly.</p><p>You will be forced to pve for AA. (Xp disabled, but still get xp for discoveries).  You may or may not be getting pvp armor/weaps.  I forsee the cost of these dropping dramatically.</p><p>By the time your 22 gets to 80 (just as it was for 70) All the 80's will be rolling on their lowbies cause they are friggen bored out of their collective minds anyways.</p><p>Level 80 pvp will not suck, because you will be rolling a new toon anyways cause you are also bored out of your mind (nothing to do when you have done it all).</p><p>Now, when enough of you get to 80 and start gearing up, PVP will start ramping up again for you.   By this time you will have 2 or 3 toons at 80 just as you had 6 toons at 22 so you can pick the right toon for the right situation.</p><p>But, Most importantly, I will be able to roll a freep illusionist. and my defiler wont suck as much.</p><p>But seriously, I think the only hard core PVP occuring now is on these forums.  My defiler pwns all of you on the forums.</p></blockquote>My forum-wiz-alt just cast m/s so get through that you wimpy-dps-forum-deilfer (please don't cast SoE-moderator-forum-scourge tho).  You're right this is more fun.

voxranger
12-13-2007, 02:31 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>1.) Do the Kunark quests and you wont get owned in low level pvp</p><p>2.) No thanks, I'm gonna continue to whine and moan like the carebears who couldn't take the time to simply ask and learn how to compete in pvp, because I don't want to be forced to miss out on half the games content and quests because I casually pvp.  I was never a hardcore pvp locker who twinked and ganked newbies, I was a casual pvp/pve'er ... This ignorant little fools think that this implemented change only effected the hardcore level locker twinks... yes it did that, but they also destroyed the lives of the casual pvp/pve'r who enjoy questing and seeing the content while pvping along the way ... </p><p>They basicly destroyed 2 popular playstyles in favor of 1 playstyle... The newb playstyle of carebears who should have stayed on the pve server and couldn't take the time to learn how to compete and do the newbie Kunark quests.  I was like them when i came here.  i whined about the twinks.  Then i did the Kunark quest series and it was no longer an issue... SOE caters to whiners, not logic, that much is obvious.  So I'm thinking of people from these 2 types of playstyles that have been killed by this change whine enough then SOE much actually balance this system and pvp rewards properly.  1-2% xp gain at most, regardless of tier, level and vitality.</p></blockquote><p>Well, I can't argue with your point as taken from your perspective. I know there are players like you (allthough the minority i think) who simply enjoyed a cuasual approach to pvp and elected to forego the grinding and questing needed to keep the aa and gear up to speed with the tier. I agree, it is too bad that a few had to pay the price.</p><p>I think you will also agree that something had to be done. For folks like myself who enjoy the questing and leveling process, the lower level ganking was negatively affecting the quality of the pvp experience in higher levels, and most importantly, was negatively impacting the overall game experience for newer players or those folks who wanted to try out a different character. Now, lots of alternative suggestions have been made, and from a purely, and admittedly selfish perspective, I am happy to see people forced to level into higher tiers because that is my play style (speaking as a ranger, I'm happy to see a change go my way for once <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</p><p>However, I an also see how the process as it is designed now will, on balance, provide everyone with an opportunity to grow into the game in a much more enjoyable way. </p><p>I'm sorry that you are disappointed, and I do understand. However, I am not sorry for those who are screaming because thier whole objective was to farm easy kills, either for faction, gear, or for ego. </p>

Darken_St
12-13-2007, 02:31 PM
Rattface,And here you are absolutely relishing in the loss of someone else's playstyle. (not my playstyle, I guess I am the Female White Knight of lockers everywhere ^_^) Hypocritical much? Alexis^_^Edited- in reply window Rattface shows up as themixmonkeyx, changed to reflect how it shows on his posts themselves.

Rattfa
12-13-2007, 02:37 PM
Where in my post did you see my 'absolute relish' in the removal of pvp locking? (For the record, I am glad the change has been made, yet my post was unbiased). SOE obviously never intended PvP servers to have an immovable twink wall where new players couldnt pass without being forced to skip content.My post was perfectly valid, and raised good points. Don't call me a hypocrite again.

Murrdawg69
12-13-2007, 02:37 PM
ok, but to say I don't know t7 pvp because I like pvp in other tiers is a crack of   , and you know it... I have played t7 many of times on a freinds account, mainly I wanted to see what the pvp was like to see if grinding straight to 70 was good or not... My assumption from the week that I played t7 was that if you weren't with a small group, or had track and evac, or raid geared out the [Removed for Content], you were up sh!ts creek. PvP in any tier has people that like it and people that don't, no matter what.. But removing my decisions from MY game is not what I call fun, sorry. If I wanted to lock at 45 for 2 years I should be able to, i pay, I enjoy the game, no one else pays my subscription. So therefor with me not being able to control the outcome the game has lost alot of "fun level" because I hate endgame pvp with a passion.. Just only because I love to solo, grouping is ez mode even in t7 unless you run into an even matched group it's just like plowing through fields of noobs and you know it. (obviously you have a lvl 80 I assume)  Im not trying to compare apples to oranges, but 10% exp per kill is a little drastic? i can see if your lvl 40+ but anyone in t3 even are still getting anywhere from 5-9 exp per kill

voxranger
12-13-2007, 02:37 PM
<cite>voxranger wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>1.) Do the Kunark quests and you wont get owned in low level pvp</p><p>2.) No thanks, I'm gonna continue to whine and moan like the carebears who couldn't take the time to simply ask and learn how to compete in pvp, because I don't want to be forced to miss out on half the games content and quests because I casually pvp.  I was never a hardcore pvp locker who twinked and ganked newbies, I was a casual pvp/pve'er ... This ignorant little fools think that this implemented change only effected the hardcore level locker twinks... yes it did that, but they also destroyed the lives of the casual pvp/pve'r who enjoy questing and seeing the content while pvping along the way ... </p><p>They basicly destroyed 2 popular playstyles in favor of 1 playstyle... The newb playstyle of carebears who should have stayed on the pve server and couldn't take the time to learn how to compete and do the newbie Kunark quests.  I was like them when i came here.  i whined about the twinks.  Then i did the Kunark quest series and it was no longer an issue... SOE caters to whiners, not logic, that much is obvious.  So I'm thinking of people from these 2 types of playstyles that have been killed by this change whine enough then SOE much actually balance this system and pvp rewards properly.  1-2% xp gain at most, regardless of tier, level and vitality.</p></blockquote><p>Well, I can't argue with your point as taken from your perspective. I know there are players like you (allthough the minority i think) who simply enjoyed a cuasual approach to pvp and elected to forego the grinding and questing needed to keep the aa and gear up to speed with the tier. I agree, it is too bad that a few had to pay the price.</p><p>I think you will also agree that something had to be done. For folks like myself who enjoy the questing and leveling process, the lower level ganking was negatively affecting the quality of the pvp experience in higher levels, and most importantly, was negatively impacting the overall game experience for newer players or those folks who wanted to try out a different character. Now, lots of alternative suggestions have been made, and from a purely, and admittedly selfish perspective, I am happy to see people forced to level into higher tiers because that is my play style (speaking as a ranger, I'm happy to see a change go my way for once <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" />.</p><p>However, I an also see how the process as it is designed now will, on balance, provide everyone with an opportunity to grow into the game in a much more enjoyable way. </p><p>I'm sorry that you are disappointed, and I do understand. However, I am not sorry for those who are screaming because thier whole objective was to farm easy kills, either for faction, gear, or for ego. </p></blockquote>Oh and in terms of the ROK quests, yeah, I'm doing em and gearing up, but as I mentioned, walking into that zone as a level 68 and just trying to get off the docks is a challenge, let alone completing quest lines where the npc's are still clustered, and thereby attracting opposing players on the hunt. But, like i said, at this level, thats part of the fun and the challenge - a far cry from getting ganked in the caves or blackborrow by a group of teener and twenty something twinks <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Rajasa
12-13-2007, 02:47 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>Goodbye random level locker #56219.</blockquote>ROFL!

Brimestar
12-13-2007, 02:49 PM
I laughed....True Story....

voxranger
12-13-2007, 02:50 PM
<cite>Murrdawg69 wrote:</cite><blockquote>ok, but to say I don't know t7 pvp because I like pvp in other tiers is a crack of   , and you know it... I have played t7 many of times on a freinds account, mainly I wanted to see what the pvp was like to see if grinding straight to 70 was good or not... My assumption from the week that I played t7 was that if you weren't with a small group, or had track and evac, or raid geared out the [I cannot control my vocabulary], you were up sh!ts creek. PvP in any tier has people that like it and people that don't, no matter what.. But removing my decisions from MY game is not what I call fun, sorry. If I wanted to lock at 45 for 2 years I should be able to, i pay, I enjoy the game, no one else pays my subscription. So therefor with me not being able to control the outcome the game has lost alot of "fun level" because I hate endgame pvp with a passion.. Just only because I love to solo, grouping is ez mode even in t7 unless you run into an even matched group it's just like plowing through fields of noobs and you know it. (obviously you have a lvl 80 I assume)  Im not trying to compare apples to oranges, but 10% exp per kill is a little drastic? i can see if your lvl 40+ but anyone in t3 even are still getting anywhere from 5-9 exp per kill</blockquote>Your exactly right, and the higher you level, the more you will see (1) groups of people working together in pvp, and (2) really, really, really good players soloing. It is simply more challenging to pvp the higher you go, and re-gearing and making aa choices is part of the process that forces players to think carefully about thier choices. I think this is good for the game, now support and utility classes will have an opportunity to feel successful in pvp as well as they have time to feel like the form social networks and learn thier characters without beeing down 100 kills by the time they hit level 40 

Spyderbite
12-13-2007, 02:54 PM
Buh bye.Curious though. Since all these people have already quit.. friends, guildmates and the countless numbers who claim to have quit on the forums. You'd think SOE would have done something by now huh?My thoughts are.. only a handful of people really quit.. not even a tax write off for SOE. Or, nobody's quitting and they're all sitting here holding their breath like a 6 year old until SOE changes it back.Who knows though.. I'll probably login in a few minutes and the server will be completely empty. *chuckles* Ok.. that was a stretch. XD

dellaripa
12-13-2007, 02:57 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>Buh bye.Curious though. Since all these people have already quit.. friends, guildmates and the countless numbers who claim to have quit on the forums. You'd think SOE would have done something by now huh?My thoughts are.. only a handful of people really quit.. not even a tax write off for SOE. Or, nobody's quitting and they're all sitting here holding their breath like a 6 year old until SOE changes it back.Who knows though.. I'll probably login in a few minutes and the server will be completely empty. *chuckles* Ok.. that was a stretch. XD</blockquote><p>Gice it a few days.  I'm sure they'll notice when a good chunk of the playerbase, on their most populated server, no longer pay their monthly dues<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />.  </p><p>Money speaks louder than whines.</p>

Roald
12-13-2007, 02:59 PM
<p>Sweet! One less locker to make the servers lag less!</p>

Skywarrior
12-13-2007, 03:02 PM
<p>Everquest 2, like most MMORPGs, is a PvE game.  It has had PvP features added to it to help accomodate the play desires of certain players and that is a good thing.  But those players do need to remember that EQ2 is a PvE game with PvP features, not the other way around.  </p><p>There is a certain subset of the PvP players in EQ2 who found a way, via legitimate game mechanics of the time, to essentially turn one specific level tier into a fantasy version of Counterstrike, complete with a target rich environment of easily defeated "trash content".  Unfortunately for them, the "trash content" were other real life players, many of whom simply wanted to play a PvE game with PvP features, as designed, and not a fantasy version of Counterstrike.</p><p>So, the developers decided that, since the game was indeed an RPG, intended and marketed to be played as an RPG with PvE as the focus and PvP as an additional feature, maybe they should do something to break the logjam that the Counterstrike culture was causing.  The fix, while controversial to many, will most certainly shake up the logjam.  It remains to be seen, of course, if it is a satisfactory permanent solution.</p><p>I do find it amusing that the loudest complainers berate the people they believe to have caused the fix to occur for not taking the steps to be competitive in the T2 environment, and yet refuse to even consider doing what will be necessary to be competitive as they now start to level - and that is play the PvE game they actually bought instead of the Counterstrike game they prefer.</p>

Spyderbite
12-13-2007, 03:06 PM
<cite>dellaripa wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>Gice it a few days.  I'm sure they'll notice when a good chunk of the playerbase, on their most populated server, no longer pay their monthly dues<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />.  </p></blockquote>Actually, if you look at the number of PvE servers and compare them to the combined population of the PvP servers.. I bet they could shut down the PvP servers all together and still bring in a healthy profit on the game.With that in mind, I wouldn't pet myself on the back for such a brilliant plan yet, Dr. Smith. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Wraithstalker
12-13-2007, 03:09 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>Buh bye.Curious though. Since all these people have already quit.. friends, guildmates and the countless numbers who claim to have quit on the forums. You'd think SOE would have done something by now huh?My thoughts are.. only a handful of people really quit.. not even a tax write off for SOE. Or, nobody's quitting and they're all sitting here holding their breath like a 6 year old until SOE changes it back.Who knows though.. I'll probably login in a few minutes and the server will be completely empty. *chuckles* Ok.. that was a stretch. XD</blockquote><p>I thought peeps like you on Venekor would be trying to keep as many people as possible, when i tried it, it was like playing Oblivion?</p><p>I can also see some people take more pleasure in the fact that others are unhappy than they do over the effect of the changes to themselves. I think not that many people have really quit, but the numbers will grow. Once third party websites and podcasts pick up on this discontent, I'm sure a lot more vocal critics will point out how this change ruined PvP in EQ2. SOE can control the feedback to some degree on the forums, but once it gets over to the MMO public, it will probably result in 'putting people off' trying PvP. The lessons learned from the NGE are that a vocal minority caused a pretty huge stink, and as a result killed off any new players even touching the game. The effect is not immediate, but I'm sure they outlined a 3 month strategy to boost subs as they declined over time. I think the change is just going to slowly wear people out, and if people just don't like it, will probably drop off the radar.</p><p>The more I hear people complain about 'crying lockers' the more I find myself wanting to see changes at the high end too, to gauge that reaction and chip in with my 2c. Looking at the Venekor forum, a lot of talk about merging it, and how empty it is. In the same way you find amusement in the changes, I can't help but chuckle when I think of what any change will do to your server's population hehehe</p><p>I'm not against or for any particular playstyle. I outlevel gank squads if I want an easier time, trouble is, the people that are getting ganked are hell bent on staying at that level too to participate in that same behaviour. I just felt that there could have been a much better solution so not to alienate players who enjoyed lower end play, in addition to their main toons at higher levels.</p>

dellaripa
12-13-2007, 03:11 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>dellaripa wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>Gice it a few days.  I'm sure they'll notice when a good chunk of the playerbase, on their most populated server, no longer pay their monthly dues<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />.  </p></blockquote>Actually, if you look at the number of PvE servers and compare them to the combined population of the PvP servers.. I bet they could shut down the PvP servers all together and still bring in a healthy profit on the game.With that in mind, I wouldn't pet myself on the back for such a brilliant plan yet, Dr. Smith. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>Yeah, losing more revenue, for a business that has been losing revenue since launch, is obviously a good thing<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

Marcula
12-13-2007, 03:13 PM
<span style="color: #00ccff;">That was a brilliant first post umm...whoever you are that is in a guild with countless friends who have all mysteriously quit. You will be missed.........</span>

Spyderbite
12-13-2007, 03:22 PM
<cite>Wraithstalker wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>I thought peeps like you on Venekor would be trying to keep as many people as possible, when i tried it, it was like playing Oblivion?</p></blockquote>We prefer Quality over Quantity. I have no problem with a few babies being tossed out with the bath water in this particular scenario. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

Wraithstalker
12-13-2007, 03:32 PM
<cite>Skywarrior wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Everquest 2, like most MMORPGs, is a PvE game.  It has had PvP features added to it to help accomodate the play desires of certain players and that is a good thing.  But those players do need to remember that EQ2 is a PvE game with PvP features, not the other way around.  </p><p>There is a certain subset of the PvP players in EQ2 who found a way, via legitimate game mechanics of the time, to essentially turn one specific level tier into a fantasy version of Counterstrike, complete with a target rich environment of easily defeated "trash content".  Unfortunately for them, the "trash content" were other real life players, many of whom simply wanted to play a PvE game with PvP features, as designed, and not a fantasy version of Counterstrike.</p><p>So, the developers decided that, since the game was indeed an RPG, intended and marketed to be played as an RPG with PvE as the focus and PvP as an additional feature, maybe they should do something to break the logjam that the Counterstrike culture was causing.  The fix, while controversial to many, will most certainly shake up the logjam.  It remains to be seen, of course, if it is a satisfactory permanent solution.</p><p>I do find it amusing that the loudest complainers berate the people they believe to have caused the fix to occur for not taking the steps to be competitive in the T2 environment, and yet refuse to even consider doing what will be necessary to be competitive as they now start to level - and that is play the PvE game they actually bought instead of the Counterstrike game they prefer.</p></blockquote><p>..and with similar thoughts in mind, these same poor people could actually play on a PvE server where there is no PvP. Your argument doesn't hold water, sorry.</p><p>There are much better solution that to make levelling mandatory. People who accept this are pretty much selling out and saying 'Yeah we are happy that to fix PvP, you can just go ahead and make a one line change to the code'. For the want of a better more sophisticated game all round that appeases the needs of the majority, we need to push for more than this. It's not a satisfactory permanent solution as this is just going to expose more people to look to negate the effects to make them more powerful. Constant work is needed to ensure that PvP remains a fun and engaging part of the EQ2 universe. SOE was very clear about how they marketed PvP when it was released, and in no way did they stress it was a PvE game with limited PvP.</p>

Wraithstalker
12-13-2007, 03:33 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wraithstalker wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>I thought peeps like you on Venekor would be trying to keep as many people as possible, when i tried it, it was like playing Oblivion?</p></blockquote>We prefer Quality over Quantity. I have no problem with a few babies being tossed out with the bath water in this particular scenario. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>Well you ain't got either, so I guess I'll be looking for your vote on server merges in the forthcoming months <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Muraazi
12-13-2007, 03:34 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm starting to think we don't need to quit, SOE caters to whiners it seems, that's all the carebears who shouldn't have been on this server in the first place did... <b><i>Rather then taking a day to do the Kunark quest series</i></b> to be on level ground with twinks, they just kept complaining until change was put in... If our side complains enough maybe they'll actually balance the system out,  re-vamp pvp reward system and make it so level and vitality is irrelevant... No more then 1-2% should be awared per pvp kill, for those of you who think that 10%+ xp is good for a pvp kill, please just leave the pvp server and go back to a pve server and leave the hardcore pvpers and the casual pve/pvpers in peace </blockquote>Lvl locking has been a "playstyle" long before kunark was incepted...

Wraithstalker
12-13-2007, 03:41 PM
<cite>Muraazi wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm starting to think we don't need to quit, SOE caters to whiners it seems, that's all the carebears who shouldn't have been on this server in the first place did... <b><i>Rather then taking a day to do the Kunark quest series</i></b> to be on level ground with twinks, they just kept complaining until change was put in... If our side complains enough maybe they'll actually balance the system out,  re-vamp pvp reward system and make it so level and vitality is irrelevant... No more then 1-2% should be awared per pvp kill, for those of you who think that 10%+ xp is good for a pvp kill, please just leave the pvp server and go back to a pve server and leave the hardcore pvpers and the casual pve/pvpers in peace </blockquote>Lvl locking has been a "playstyle" long before kunark was incepted...</blockquote>It appeared to me that the low level twinking problem was kinda going away with RoK anyway, as there was no clear distinction as to a definable level that made a character more powerful such as the MC armor level. I saw a lot of folk lock at one level, then move up and so where the enemies. But I guess it takes a hammer to 'sort it out' rather than relying on the community to play out the scenario themselves <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Wraithstalker
12-13-2007, 03:46 PM
<p>Would the community support a new PVP server that supported the previous PvP rules and allow players to twink their characters and allow this to be used for what one would consider 'hardcore pvp'. Turn the zones back to 8 levels and allow the people upset by the changes to play their game.</p><p>Firstly reconsolidate existing servers to address more immediate PVP population concerns.</p><p>From what I can see there would be two excellently populated PVP servers this way, with each offering it's own challenge?</p>

Muraazi
12-13-2007, 03:48 PM
I am for the change really, but I can agree that the xp rate could use some toning down in the lower lvls.

Wraithstalker
12-13-2007, 03:49 PM
I'm getting duo's and trio's running from one of my toons in T4 now, as it's obvious they don't want to get any xp. It's unlikely they would be killed by me, but they just aren't taking any chances, kinda lame.

voxranger
12-13-2007, 03:58 PM
<cite>Wraithstalker wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Skywarrior wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Everquest 2, like most MMORPGs, is a PvE game.  It has had PvP features added to it to help accomodate the play desires of certain players and that is a good thing.  But those players do need to remember that EQ2 is a PvE game with PvP features, not the other way around.  </p><p>There is a certain subset of the PvP players in EQ2 who found a way, via legitimate game mechanics of the time, to essentially turn one specific level tier into a fantasy version of Counterstrike, complete with a target rich environment of easily defeated "trash content".  Unfortunately for them, the "trash content" were other real life players, many of whom simply wanted to play a PvE game with PvP features, as designed, and not a fantasy version of Counterstrike.</p><p>So, the developers decided that, since the game was indeed an RPG, intended and marketed to be played as an RPG with PvE as the focus and PvP as an additional feature, maybe they should do something to break the logjam that the Counterstrike culture was causing.  The fix, while controversial to many, will most certainly shake up the logjam.  It remains to be seen, of course, if it is a satisfactory permanent solution.</p><p>I do find it amusing that the loudest complainers berate the people they believe to have caused the fix to occur for not taking the steps to be competitive in the T2 environment, and yet refuse to even consider doing what will be necessary to be competitive as they now start to level - and that is play the PvE game they actually bought instead of the Counterstrike game they prefer.</p></blockquote><p>..and with similar thoughts in mind, these same poor people could actually play on a PvE server where there is no PvP. Your argument doesn't hold water, sorry.</p><p>There are much better solution that to make levelling mandatory. People who accept this are pretty much selling out and saying 'Yeah we are happy that to fix PvP, you can just go ahead and make a one line change to the code'. For the want of a better more sophisticated game all round that appeases the needs of the majority, we need to push for more than this. It's not a satisfactory permanent solution as this is just going to expose more people to look to negate the effects to make them more powerful. Constant work is needed to ensure that PvP remains a fun and engaging part of the EQ2 universe. SOE was very clear about how they marketed PvP when it was released, and in no way did they stress it was a PvE game with limited PvP.</p></blockquote><p>LOL - why do the screaming lock twinks assume that just because they can't pawn lowbies anymore the game is no longer a pvp game.  What it is is a pvp game that can no longer be quite easily exploited at the expense of new or inexperienced players. So, pvp at higher levels where the game will be more challenging.</p><p>If all you want to do is pvp, go for it - nothing stopping you. No, what is really upsetting is the fact that you can no longer pawn easy kills followed by the obligatory corpse hump.</p><p>If leveling through 20's will be fast, fine - get it out of the way and take your time leveling through 30's,40's, and 50's. With the rate of exp gain in that level, you will have months on your hands to camp in one tier or another, and have plenty of time to aquire gear and aa. True, you will have to continue to quest a little to get aa, but seriously, how hard is that gonna be really? I keep hearing that people are leveling super fast out of teens on pvp kills - good! Camp in El and pvp there then. </p>

MaCloud1032
12-13-2007, 04:03 PM
Well seeing as combat xp drops as you gain levels would make sence that the teens level faster than the 20 and so on.  Iam sure sony knew what they were doing when they set the xp rate.  They want people out of the teens as fast as possable to try and keep people from gettign run off.  So now you get your 100 kills and go from 10-20 then its maby 90

Wraithstalker
12-13-2007, 04:03 PM
<cite>voxranger wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wraithstalker wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Skywarrior wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Everquest 2, like most MMORPGs, is a PvE game.  It has had PvP features added to it to help accomodate the play desires of certain players and that is a good thing.  But those players do need to remember that EQ2 is a PvE game with PvP features, not the other way around.  </p><p>There is a certain subset of the PvP players in EQ2 who found a way, via legitimate game mechanics of the time, to essentially turn one specific level tier into a fantasy version of Counterstrike, complete with a target rich environment of easily defeated "trash content".  Unfortunately for them, the "trash content" were other real life players, many of whom simply wanted to play a PvE game with PvP features, as designed, and not a fantasy version of Counterstrike.</p><p>So, the developers decided that, since the game was indeed an RPG, intended and marketed to be played as an RPG with PvE as the focus and PvP as an additional feature, maybe they should do something to break the logjam that the Counterstrike culture was causing.  The fix, while controversial to many, will most certainly shake up the logjam.  It remains to be seen, of course, if it is a satisfactory permanent solution.</p><p>I do find it amusing that the loudest complainers berate the people they believe to have caused the fix to occur for not taking the steps to be competitive in the T2 environment, and yet refuse to even consider doing what will be necessary to be competitive as they now start to level - and that is play the PvE game they actually bought instead of the Counterstrike game they prefer.</p></blockquote><p>..and with similar thoughts in mind, these same poor people could actually play on a PvE server where there is no PvP. Your argument doesn't hold water, sorry.</p><p>There are much better solution that to make levelling mandatory. People who accept this are pretty much selling out and saying 'Yeah we are happy that to fix PvP, you can just go ahead and make a one line change to the code'. For the want of a better more sophisticated game all round that appeases the needs of the majority, we need to push for more than this. It's not a satisfactory permanent solution as this is just going to expose more people to look to negate the effects to make them more powerful. Constant work is needed to ensure that PvP remains a fun and engaging part of the EQ2 universe. SOE was very clear about how they marketed PvP when it was released, and in no way did they stress it was a PvE game with limited PvP.</p></blockquote><p>LOL - why do the screaming lock twinks assume that just because they can't pawn lowbies anymore the game is no longer a pvp game.  What it is is a pvp game that can no longer be quite easily exploited at the expense of new or inexperienced players. So, pvp at higher levels where the game will be more challenging.</p><p>If all you want to do is pvp, go for it - nothing stopping you. No, what is really upsetting is the fact that you can no longer pawn easy kills followed by the obligatory corpse hump.</p><p>If leveling through 20's will be fast, fine - get it out of the way and take your time leveling through 30's,40's, and 50's. With the rate of exp gain in that level, you will have months on your hands to camp in one tier or another, and have plenty of time to aquire gear and aa. True, you will have to continue to quest a little to get aa, but seriously, how hard is that gonna be really? I keep hearing that people are leveling super fast out of teens on pvp kills - good! Camp in El and pvp there then. </p></blockquote>I don't think you needed to respond to my post directly as what you've written here has no bearing on what I was trying to communicate?

Raidyen
12-13-2007, 04:09 PM
<cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote>On 48, XP bar barely moves from killing yellow solo.Tone down even more? Hmm I don't think so.</blockquote>at 53, my friend and i killed a 59 solo.  we each got 1 percent exps for the kill.  Whether you thinks thats to much or not is irrelevant.  There are those of us out there that DO think its to much and its our toons, not yours.  if you want exps fine, turn on your exps, but don't force us into your playing style.

deepruntramp
12-13-2007, 04:09 PM
I got killed by a Swashbuckler yesterday, and killing me leveled him.  He /cried.

voxranger
12-13-2007, 04:11 PM
<cite>Wraithstalker wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>voxranger wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wraithstalker wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Skywarrior wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Everquest 2, like most MMORPGs, is a PvE game.  It has had PvP features added to it to help accomodate the play desires of certain players and that is a good thing.  But those players do need to remember that EQ2 is a PvE game with PvP features, not the other way around.  </p><p>There is a certain subset of the PvP players in EQ2 who found a way, via legitimate game mechanics of the time, to essentially turn one specific level tier into a fantasy version of Counterstrike, complete with a target rich environment of easily defeated "trash content".  Unfortunately for them, the "trash content" were other real life players, many of whom simply wanted to play a PvE game with PvP features, as designed, and not a fantasy version of Counterstrike.</p><p>So, the developers decided that, since the game was indeed an RPG, intended and marketed to be played as an RPG with PvE as the focus and PvP as an additional feature, maybe they should do something to break the logjam that the Counterstrike culture was causing.  The fix, while controversial to many, will most certainly shake up the logjam.  It remains to be seen, of course, if it is a satisfactory permanent solution.</p><p>I do find it amusing that the loudest complainers berate the people they believe to have caused the fix to occur for not taking the steps to be competitive in the T2 environment, and yet refuse to even consider doing what will be necessary to be competitive as they now start to level - and that is play the PvE game they actually bought instead of the Counterstrike game they prefer.</p></blockquote><p>..and with similar thoughts in mind, these same poor people could actually play on a PvE server where there is no PvP. Your argument doesn't hold water, sorry.</p><p>There are much better solution that to make levelling mandatory. People who accept this are pretty much selling out and saying 'Yeah we are happy that to fix PvP, you can just go ahead and make a one line change to the code'. For the want of a better more sophisticated game all round that appeases the needs of the majority, we need to push for more than this. It's not a satisfactory permanent solution as this is just going to expose more people to look to negate the effects to make them more powerful. Constant work is needed to ensure that PvP remains a fun and engaging part of the EQ2 universe. SOE was very clear about how they marketed PvP when it was released, and in no way did they stress it was a PvE game with limited PvP.</p></blockquote><p>LOL - why do the screaming lock twinks assume that just because they can't pawn lowbies anymore the game is no longer a pvp game.  What it is is a pvp game that can no longer be quite easily exploited at the expense of new or inexperienced players. So, pvp at higher levels where the game will be more challenging.</p><p>If all you want to do is pvp, go for it - nothing stopping you. No, what is really upsetting is the fact that you can no longer pawn easy kills followed by the obligatory corpse hump.</p><p>If leveling through 20's will be fast, fine - get it out of the way and take your time leveling through 30's,40's, and 50's. With the rate of exp gain in that level, you will have months on your hands to camp in one tier or another, and have plenty of time to aquire gear and aa. True, you will have to continue to quest a little to get aa, but seriously, how hard is that gonna be really? I keep hearing that people are leveling super fast out of teens on pvp kills - good! Camp in El and pvp there then. </p></blockquote>I don't think you needed to respond to my post directly as what you've written here has no bearing on what I was trying to communicate?</blockquote>Yep - my apologies.

deepruntramp
12-13-2007, 04:16 PM
This isn't a new phenomenon.  People HATE not getting the first hit, and if they have any kind of runspeed buff at all, will run away until they have the advantage again.

toenukl
12-13-2007, 04:18 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>You seem to be forgetting nagafen is a year and a half old.  players that are in tier 7 and 8 have been playing for awhile, they have aa's, they have pvp rewards, they are all twinked out and godly... And you think they you can race to tier 7 and 8 on combat experience, be severly lacking in AA without any pvp gear and you expect "balanced" combat.... You're in for a shock... Everyone currently in that tier are twinks, far more twinked out then level 20... But you have the choice to counter act that atleast in the lowbie levels with kunark gear to balance out the pvp gear and super easy and fast quests for AA's.</p> </blockquote>Difference is in t2 people are still learning the game. In t7/8 they should know the game by now, and if not, deserve to die. Also, and this is totally opinionated, I think that t2 twinks gear makes them more OP to new ppl than t8 fabled vs MC gear.  In t8 all you need to stand a chance is some MC.

deepruntramp
12-13-2007, 04:18 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote>On 48, XP bar barely moves from killing yellow solo.Tone down even more? Hmm I don't think so.</blockquote>at 53, my friend and i killed a 59 solo.  we each got 1 percent exps for the kill.  Whether you thinks thats to much or not is irrelevant.  There are those of us out there that DO think its to much and its our toons, not yours.  if you want exps fine, turn on your exps, but don't force us into your playing style.</blockquote>Sony chooses which playing styles are available.  Avoiding XP from PvP kills is no longe r available.  Adapt or quit.

Tatate
12-13-2007, 04:22 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>Goodbye random level locker #56219.</blockquote><p>LMFAO</p><p>Personally I really don't think SOE's pocket book his hurting too much, considering most of their player base is PVE, and only a minority of those who play on PVP servers are level locked, so, please, your attempt to get SOE to change back by saying you're quitting on the forums isn't going to help much at all. </p><p>P.S. SOE probably doesn't even need the level lockers, they are rolling in 'ub3r l337z0r l00tz' from LoN</p>

Raidyen
12-13-2007, 04:22 PM
<p>Actually 2 pvp rulesets already exsist.  there are 3 servers that are Faction vs Faction PvP.  Then the rest of the servers are closed pvp.  Duels and Arena's only.</p><p>Problem is a good portion of the new players are coming in from WoW.  They are used to questing and hunting in relative safety, and then moving into pvp when they choose too.  Getting tossed right into it at level 10 has had a pretty negitave effect on them, and rightly so.</p><p>The better fix would be to add a better pvp system on the blue servers to draw those people over there.  The Arena is lame, and difficult to enter and set up.  It was very poorly done, much like most of the DoF expansion.  IF they spent a little time and set up a system like WoW for the blue servers, i don't think we would see this huge demand for easy button pvp on the hardcore servers.</p><p>But thats just my opinion.</p>

Roald
12-13-2007, 04:26 PM
I agree, as long as you name the new locking one 'Carebear and Easy-mode' server. If not, then its a terrible idea.

deepruntramp
12-13-2007, 04:26 PM
No.I might try a FFA server though -- everyone can communicate with everyone else, anyone can group with anyone else, anyone can kill anyone else.

deepruntramp
12-13-2007, 04:28 PM
level_locker's corpse says, "My comrades shall avenge my death!"

Duckman
12-13-2007, 04:29 PM
<cite>deepruntramp wrote:</cite><blockquote>No.I might try a FFA server though -- everyone can communicate with everyone else, anyone can group with anyone else, anyone can kill anyone else.</blockquote>This would be the only situation in which I would go to a new PvP server.  Starting out at level 1 with the same/similar ruleset that I've already experienced doesn't interest me personally.

Kneemin
12-13-2007, 04:30 PM
I love how you call us lvl lockers a minority when in every single tier of the game (save T1/7/<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> we heavily outweigh those trying to lvl and quite a few of us have T8 charactesr anyway.By us quitting you will be losing players in all tiers of the game.Also the comment about how PvE has the majority of SOE's subs.... you do realize that nagafen is about twice, if not triple the size of most the PvE servers.Our locking did NOTHING to you guys, our locking did not LIMIT the game in any way.  By putting in this change, SOE effectively LIMITED the way we can play thus giving us LESS of an OPTION.Also you are only looking at the revenue lost by the current cancellations.  But if lots of the lockers leave, many of the people who were going to join may not join b/c the population went down.  more ppl will leave b/c there isn't enuf to kill anyway.... etc...etc..By reversing the change, many ppl won't cancel their accounts... and I highly doubt some lvl 80 nub who whines for this change will quit b/c we can stay locked.Reverse the change and everyone wins.Ppl who wanted the change may not like that we can still lock but they won't all burst out with quitting b/c of it.  Lesser of 2 evils - common principle of choice making

Kneemin
12-13-2007, 04:31 PM
Milambers.. .what in the hell about locking is carebear/ezmode?You make no sense

Tatate
12-13-2007, 04:35 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>I love how you call us lvl lockers a minority when in every single tier of the game (save T1/7/<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /> we heavily outweigh those trying to lvl and quite a few of us have T8 charactesr anyway.By us quitting you will be losing players in all tiers of the game.Also the comment about how PvE has the majority of SOE's subs.... you do realize that nagafen is about twice, if not triple the size of most the PvE servers.Our locking did NOTHING to you guys, our locking did not LIMIT the game in any way.  By putting in this change, SOE effectively LIMITED the way we can play thus giving us LESS of an OPTION.Also you are only looking at the revenue lost by the current cancellations.  But if lots of the lockers leave, many of the people who were going to join may not join b/c the population went down.  more ppl will leave b/c there isn't enuf to kill anyway.... etc...etc..By reversing the change, many ppl won't cancel their accounts... and I highly doubt some lvl 80 nub who whines for this change will quit b/c we can stay locked.Reverse the change and everyone wins.Ppl who wanted the change may not like that we can still lock but they won't all burst out with quitting b/c of it.  Lesser of 2 evils - common principle of choice making</blockquote>Trust me, the amount of PVErs outnumber PVPers by a ton. So, please, adapt or quit. If it' so bad that you have to post on the forums, then I suggest you quit.

Wraithstalker
12-13-2007, 04:36 PM
<p>Well I put this up so people can develop the idea and own some sort of a solution.</p><p>I feel that there needs to be a distinction as to casual and hardcore in EQ2, when it comes to PvP. I just don't get any satisfaction in not making my character the bes the can be at any level, and I love to work hard to make sure he is fiercely competitive.</p><p>Surely there is a place for someone like me in the game, I don't think I'm alone?</p>

seahawk
12-13-2007, 04:48 PM
<cite>Wraithstalker wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Well I put this up so people can develop the idea and own some sort of a solution.</p><p>I feel that there needs to be a distinction as to casual and hardcore in EQ2, when it comes to PvP. I just don't get any satisfaction in not making my character the bes the can be at any level, and I love to work hard to make sure he is fiercely competitive.</p><p>Surely there is a place for someone like me in the game, I don't think I'm alone?</p></blockquote><p>Good news there is, it's called tier 8.</p><p>1/ you get to use all your skills</p><p>2/ you get all your race traits and class abilities</p><p>3/ no level range for pvp. tier 7/8 are unlimited</p><p>4/ the players in tier 7/8 are not new to the game, they have a decent if not good grasp on the mechanics.</p><p>5/ pvp gear is equal to end game raid gear, or close enough.</p><p>6/ more zones to fight in.</p><p>7/ end game, the classes are relatively more balanced and more viable out in the wild solo.</p><p>8/ utility classes play more of a roll in end game also.</p><p>Anything less then the above is not "hard-core" .. sorry.</p><p>tier 2 pvp is not hardcore.. it's far from it.</p>

Wraithstalker
12-13-2007, 04:48 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>I love how you call us lvl lockers a minority when in every single tier of the game (save T1/7/<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15"> we heavily outweigh those trying to lvl and quite a few of us have T8 charactesr anyway.By us quitting you will be losing players in all tiers of the game.Also the comment about how PvE has the majority of SOE's subs.... you do realize that nagafen is about twice, if not triple the size of most the PvE servers.Our locking did NOTHING to you guys, our locking did not LIMIT the game in any way.  By putting in this change, SOE effectively LIMITED the way we can play thus giving us LESS of an OPTION.Also you are only looking at the revenue lost by the current cancellations.  But if lots of the lockers leave, many of the people who were going to join may not join b/c the population went down.  more ppl will leave b/c there isn't enuf to kill anyway.... etc...etc..By reversing the change, many ppl won't cancel their accounts... and I highly doubt some lvl 80 nub who whines for this change will quit b/c we can stay locked.Reverse the change and everyone wins.Ppl who wanted the change may not like that we can still lock but they won't all burst out with quitting b/c of it.  Lesser of 2 evils - common principle of choice making</blockquote>Trust me, the amount of PVErs outnumber PVPers by a ton. So, please, adapt or quit. If it' so bad that you have to post on the forums, then I suggest you quit.</blockquote><p>OK, enough from you I think. You have nothing positive to say, and just are trying to bait people into angry replies. The system 'as is' is not perfect and can be improved, and if you feel like you want to accept that for the coming months without revision, then feel free to vindicate this very simple change as a way of fixing PvP in general. Adapting to an as is system with no way of being rewarded for PvP such as the faction rewards, with no ability to both heaviliy PvP and also investing your skill to grow your character with AA's and equipment that you won't outlevel. This is the broader picture, and you seen focused on singling out one area that is a pretty easy target, and get's the most voicifourous responses, much to your particular enjoyment.</p><p>The voices of discention have a lot more purpose than worrying about there own T2 twinks, and some (which I count myself) are trying to think a little further along the line and to even try and appease all sectors with the community with something that negates negative feedback from people not being happy with this enforced system. It goes a lot further than whining on the forums, and the last thing EQ2 needs is people leaving, we are looking to grow the community.</p><p>So next time you post, maybe think with that hat on instead. This isn't about twinks vs the rest, it's about the community trying to work together to come up with a solution.</p>

Raidyen
12-13-2007, 04:52 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>Trust me, the amount of PVErs outnumber PVPers by a ton. So, please, adapt or quit. If it' so bad that you have to post on the forums, then I suggest you quit.</blockquote>That is an unbeleivable statement right there.  I hope all of you that wish to try and preserve pvp read that carefully. 

Captain Apple Darkberry
12-13-2007, 04:57 PM
<span style="color: #ff3300;">/eyes the cards showing on the table; Jack of Carebears and 14 of TwinksSure.  I'll call your bluff./spreads out the cards to reveal a Royal FFAI would fully agree to a "hardcore" server with level locking as long as it is FFA with no level restrictions and no factions to protect you.In short; level locking is not hardcore.  It is not PvP.  <b>What level locking is is hardcore PvE.</b>  Whats that?  Yes I said PvE.  You push <b>PvE</b> mechanics to a point not intended by the devs (this update proves their intent).  You then use your <b>PvE</b> prowess to PvP.So please stop insinuating that all those T2 hardcore <b>PvE'ers</b> are really hardcore PvP'ers.Hardcore PvP you say?  Try this.  Level a toon 10 - 80 only on PvP kills.  SOE has given you the ability to finally prove just how harcore of a PvP'er you really are.  Yes you will miss out on AA, but you said you wanted hardcore right?  Oh, not that hardcore huh...?</span>

Kulharr
12-13-2007, 05:05 PM
<p>The funny thing is Kunark was a powerful cure for lowbie twinks.  if you locked at 10, and did all the Kunark quests you'd have awesome gear and enough AA's to compete against any twink by level 20, that would have taken you a day or two... Instead of actually asking the question "how can I compete in a world of lowbie twinks" and simply taking the time to do that.  You whined and demanded change in favor of an easier play style where the lowbie twinks were entirly removed from the equation.  And in turn 2 playstyles were completely destroyed, the hardcore pvper and the casual balanced pvp/pve'er in favor of a challengless, rush pvp style.</p><p>You tell us not to whine and adapt, is that not hypocritical when it was the carebear newbs from the pve servers who refused to adapt and whined for a change? The door swings both ways guys.  SOE listens to whiners, not logic.  And the hardcore level lockers ... and the casual pvp/pve'rs "like myself" will have our own whining campaign until SOE actually properly balances out the system by balacing the requirements for pvp rewards and greatly reduces the experience awared on pvp combat and negating vitality and level.</p><p>If we can find a balanced ground then everyone will be happy, but don't tell us to adapt and not to whine when that is exactly when you did to bring this controversial, unbalanced, untested change suddennly upon the world.</p>

Snowlywhite
12-13-2007, 05:06 PM
<cite>Captain Apple Darkberry wrote:</cite><blockquote><span style="color: #ff3300;">/eyes the cards showing on the table; Jack of Carebears and 14 of TwinksSure.  I'll call your bluff./spreads out the cards to reveal a Royal FFAI would fully agree to a "hardcore" server with level locking as long as it is FFA with no level restrictions and no factions to protect you.In short; level locking is not hardcore.  It is not PvP.  <b>What level locking is is hardcore PvE.</b>  Whats that?  Yes I said PvE.  You push <b>PvE</b> mechanics to a point not intended by the devs (this update proves their intent).  You then use your <b>PvE</b> prowess to PvP.So please stop insinuating that all those T2 hardcore <b>PvE'ers</b> are really hardcore PvP'ers.Hardcore PvP you say?  Try this.  Level a toon 10 - 80 only on PvP kills.  SOE has given you the ability to finally prove just how harcore of a PvP'er you really are.  Yes you will miss out on AA, but you said you wanted hardcore right?  Oh, not that hardcore huh...?</span></blockquote>what you're suggesting is more like "brain dead" pvp. Or how an idiot would pvp. Or how all those whinning here that they can't quest in peace without bothering about gear would want it.hardcore pvp means fine tunning your guy and then take anything that shows up on your screen. Each time I died at least I had the comfort of knowing that, previously to engaging I did almost everything possible in maxing out my char for all the 42 lvls. I played. Maybe the other guy tuned him even better, maybe I should stop trying to pick ppl. 15 lvls above even if it's obvious they have crap gear, maybe the other guy simply played better, maybe he had a favourable situation... etc. Maybe I even played crappy or the rng gods were against me that fight. But at least I did all that I could in order to maximize my chances. That's hardcore pvp; what your typing there is just being plain stupid and nothing more. Don't get me wrong, it's everyone's God given right to be stupid... however, I wouldn't advocate for making this a general practice. Even if the other guy is semi afk he'll still win if he has 100 aa over you and that's a no brainer... or should be...

Krescendo
12-13-2007, 05:07 PM
<p>Respectfully, Capt, I could not disagree with you more.</p><p>Locked pvp is pure pvp. The only way you could make it better is make everyone the same level and buck nakid.</p><p>I don't necessarily think we need totally pure pvp.  I don't mind getting ganked by someone 3 levels above me in better gear, but there has to be limits...at least with locked pvp you could protect yourself.</p><p>Calling it closer to pve is the exact opposite of what it is. Locked pvp is all about pvp.  </p>

Wraithstalker
12-13-2007, 05:08 PM
<p>OK this is going off  track, it's not a T8 vs T2 discussion, I was just thinking of a way to appease people unhappy with the changes, not to start some sort of internet argument with people who appear to do this for a living. If the original statement is not correct, develop the idea into something that is more broad ranging. I'm not satisfied that the 'just level to 80' will cut it for a lot of these folks who want to experience PvP in the game at every level.</p><p>I hear people use the term hardcore, so if they want that, why not them do that, and let people happy with the changes to carry on along that path?</p><p>Also let's not confuse personal opinion for the developers intent, I think only a few people could do that, and those are the developers themselves, who's input has been sadly lacking from these forums, and all I seem to notice is people talking about teacups and bows from Frostfell.</p>

serilis
12-13-2007, 05:09 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>The funny thing is Kunark was a powerful cure for lowbie twinks.  if you locked at 10, and did all the Kunark quests you'd have awesome gear and enough AA's to compete against any twink by level 20, that would have taken you a day or two... Instead of actually asking the question "how can I compete in a world of lowbie twinks" and simply taking the time to do that.  You whined and demanded change in favor of an easier play style where the lowbie twinks were entirly removed from the equation.  And in turn 2 playstyles were completely destroyed, the hardcore pvper and the casual balanced pvp/pve'er in favor of a challengless, rush pvp style.</p><p>You tell us not to whine and adapt, is that not hypocritical when it was the carebear newbs from the pve servers who refused to adapt and whined for a change? The door swings both ways guys.  SOE listens to whiners, not logic.  And the hardcore level lockers ... and the casual pvp/pve'rs "like myself" will have our own whining campaign until SOE actually properly balances out the system by balacing the requirements for pvp rewards and greatly reduces the experience awared on pvp combat and negating vitality and level.</p><p>If we can find a balanced ground then everyone will be happy, but don't tell us to adapt and not to whine when that is exactly when you did to bring this controversial, unbalanced, untested change suddennly upon the world.</p></blockquote>So its ok for the newb players to be forced into locking and grinding out quests for NO exp and just AA to compete and not be destroyed at lower levels, but its not okay for the locks to be forced to level up and compete by upgrading their spells and gear every tier?

Raidyen
12-13-2007, 05:12 PM
<cite>deepruntramp wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote>On 48, XP bar barely moves from killing yellow solo.Tone down even more? Hmm I don't think so.</blockquote>at 53, my friend and i killed a 59 solo.  we each got 1 percent exps for the kill.  Whether you thinks thats to much or not is irrelevant.  There are those of us out there that DO think its to much and its our toons, not yours.  if you want exps fine, turn on your exps, but don't force us into your playing style.</blockquote>Sony chooses which playing styles are available.  Avoiding XP from PvP kills is no longe r available.  Adapt or quit.</blockquote><p>Sony chooses wich playing styles best fits the majority of the paying customers.  I believe they made a mistake with this one.  There are plenty of servers that provide your type of play style.  There are only 2 that provide mine.  If they don't wish to provide that style anymore after myself and the others like me voice our opinions, then fine, i will quit.  But im not going down without atleast trying to save the style of play i enjoy on a game i have played for 3 years, Plus another 6 of EQ1.  Slow leveling post 40 is what im fighting for.</p><p>And i am really getting tired of the same "adapt or quit" lines.  Can we come up with something a little more constructive to say?</p>

Tamar
12-13-2007, 05:12 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Captain Apple Darkberry wrote:</cite><blockquote><span style="color: #ff3300;">/eyes the cards showing on the table; Jack of Carebears and 14 of TwinksSure.  I'll call your bluff./spreads out the cards to reveal a Royal FFAI would fully agree to a "hardcore" server with level locking as long as it is FFA with no level restrictions and no factions to protect you.In short; level locking is not hardcore.  It is not PvP.  <b>What level locking is is hardcore PvE.</b>  Whats that?  Yes I said PvE.  You push <b>PvE</b> mechanics to a point not intended by the devs (this update proves their intent).  You then use your <b>PvE</b> prowess to PvP.So please stop insinuating that all those T2 hardcore <b>PvE'ers</b> are really hardcore PvP'ers.Hardcore PvP you say?  Try this.  Level a toon 10 - 80 only on PvP kills.  SOE has given you the ability to finally prove just how harcore of a PvP'er you really are.  Yes you will miss out on AA, but you said you wanted hardcore right?  Oh, not that hardcore huh...?</span></blockquote>what you're suggesting is more like "brain dead" pvp. Or how an idiot would pvp. Or how all those whinning here that they can't quest in peace without bothering about gear would want it.hardcore pvp means fine tunning your guy and then take anything that shows up on your screen. Each time I died at least I had the comfort of knowing that, previously to engaging I did almost everything possible in maxing out my char for all the 42 lvls. I played. Maybe the other guy tuned him even better, maybe I should stop trying to pick ppl. 15 lvls above even if it's obvious they have crap gear, maybe the other guy simply played better, maybe he had a favourable situation... etc. Maybe I even played crappy or the rng gods were against me that fight. But at least I did all that I could in order to maximize my chances. That's hardcore pvp; what your typing there is just being plain stupid and nothing more. Don't get me wrong, it's everyone's God given right to be stupid... however, I wouldn't advocate for making this a general practice. Even if the other guy is semi afk he'll still win if he has 100 aa over you and that's a no brainer... or should be...</blockquote><span style="color: #ff3300;">No matter how you paint it, its not "hardcore" PvP at all.  Its hardcore <b>PvE</b> to make PvP easymode for you...I'm not saying don't make your toon the best he could be.  I'm saying that PvE'ing till your eyes bleed with your level locked so that you can then PvP is <b>anything but</b> hardcore PvP.You are trying to be the biggest midget in the world, and even gratzing yourself for it...</span>

Snowlywhite
12-13-2007, 05:16 PM
hello, newsflash... gear based mmo. Called everquest. Whoa... hardcore here means hardcore to get your best gear.CS -> that wayGW -> the other wayplayed them both ad nausseum, thanks. Thoroughly enjoyed them too...Those have their rules, this one has it's rules. It's rules say gearing is the most important thing. And in a very pervert way, gear is acquired by... pveing. Ok, was by pvping too, but hey, now it's worst then the mc. one... what a joke...

MaCloud1032
12-13-2007, 05:27 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>deepruntramp wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote>On 48, XP bar barely moves from killing yellow solo.Tone down even more? Hmm I don't think so.</blockquote>at 53, my friend and i killed a 59 solo.  we each got 1 percent exps for the kill.  Whether you thinks thats to much or not is irrelevant.  There are those of us out there that DO think its to much and its our toons, not yours.  if you want exps fine, turn on your exps, but don't force us into your playing style.</blockquote>Sony chooses which playing styles are available.  Avoiding XP from PvP kills is no longe r available.  Adapt or quit.</blockquote><p>Sony chooses wich playing styles best fits the majority of the paying customers.  I believe they made a mistake with this one.  There are plenty of servers that provide your type of play style.  There are only 2 that provide mine.  If they don't wish to provide that style anymore after myself and the others like me voice our opinions, then fine, i will quit.  But im not going down without atleast trying to save the style of play i enjoy on a game i have played for 3 years, Plus another 6 of EQ1.  Slow leveling post 40 is what im fighting for.</p><p>And i am really getting tired of the same "adapt or quit" lines.  Can we come up with something a little more constructive to say?</p></blockquote><p>How about L2P or deal with it or thats life or tell someone who cares.  All comments that people have told other people when they asked about doing something about the lockers.  Again adapt or quit.  </p><p>Lockers were fine when it was there playstyle that was ruining others play style.  Sony has deamed that your playstyle was wrong and corrected it so again Adapt or Quite. Your choice!</p>

Raidyen
12-13-2007, 05:58 PM
<cite>serilis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>The funny thing is Kunark was a powerful cure for lowbie twinks.  if you locked at 10, and did all the Kunark quests you'd have awesome gear and enough AA's to compete against any twink by level 20, that would have taken you a day or two... Instead of actually asking the question "how can I compete in a world of lowbie twinks" and simply taking the time to do that.  You whined and demanded change in favor of an easier play style where the lowbie twinks were entirly removed from the equation.  And in turn 2 playstyles were completely destroyed, the hardcore pvper and the casual balanced pvp/pve'er in favor of a challengless, rush pvp style.</p><p>You tell us not to whine and adapt, is that not hypocritical when it was the carebear newbs from the pve servers who refused to adapt and whined for a change? The door swings both ways guys.  SOE listens to whiners, not logic.  And the hardcore level lockers ... and the casual pvp/pve'rs "like myself" will have our own whining campaign until SOE actually properly balances out the system by balacing the requirements for pvp rewards and greatly reduces the experience awared on pvp combat and negating vitality and level.</p><p>If we can find a balanced ground then everyone will be happy, but don't tell us to adapt and not to whine when that is exactly when you did to bring this controversial, unbalanced, untested change suddennly upon the world.</p></blockquote>So its ok for the newb players to be forced into locking and grinding out quests for NO exp and just AA to compete and not be destroyed at lower levels, but its not okay for the locks to be forced to level up and compete by upgrading their spells and gear every tier?</blockquote>Who is forcing the newb players to lock?  They can level up and gear up just like they do on the PvE servers if thats what they want to do.  Doesnt effect my game play any.

tass
12-13-2007, 06:13 PM
<cite>Tamarah wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Captain Apple Darkberry wrote:</cite><blockquote><span style="color: #ff3300;">/eyes the cards showing on the table; Jack of Carebears and 14 of TwinksSure.  I'll call your bluff./spreads out the cards to reveal a Royal FFAI would fully agree to a "hardcore" server with level locking as long as it is FFA with no level restrictions and no factions to protect you.In short; level locking is not hardcore.  It is not PvP.  <b>What level locking is is hardcore PvE.</b>  Whats that?  Yes I said PvE.  You push <b>PvE</b> mechanics to a point not intended by the devs (this update proves their intent).  You then use your <b>PvE</b> prowess to PvP.So please stop insinuating that all those T2 hardcore <b>PvE'ers</b> are really hardcore PvP'ers.Hardcore PvP you say?  Try this.  Level a toon 10 - 80 only on PvP kills.  SOE has given you the ability to finally prove just how harcore of a PvP'er you really are.  Yes you will miss out on AA, but you said you wanted hardcore right?  Oh, not that hardcore huh...?</span></blockquote>what you're suggesting is more like "brain dead" pvp. Or how an idiot would pvp. Or how all those whinning here that they can't quest in peace without bothering about gear would want it.hardcore pvp means fine tunning your guy and then take anything that shows up on your screen. Each time I died at least I had the comfort of knowing that, previously to engaging I did almost everything possible in maxing out my char for all the 42 lvls. I played. Maybe the other guy tuned him even better, maybe I should stop trying to pick ppl. 15 lvls above even if it's obvious they have crap gear, maybe the other guy simply played better, maybe he had a favourable situation... etc. Maybe I even played crappy or the rng gods were against me that fight. But at least I did all that I could in order to maximize my chances. That's hardcore pvp; what your typing there is just being plain stupid and nothing more. Don't get me wrong, it's everyone's God given right to be stupid... however, I wouldn't advocate for making this a general practice. Even if the other guy is semi afk he'll still win if he has 100 aa over you and that's a no brainer... or should be...</blockquote><span style="color: #ff3300;">No matter how you paint it, its not "hardcore" PvP at all.  Its hardcore <b>PvE</b> to make PvP easymode for you...I'm not saying don't make your toon the best he could be.  I'm saying that PvE'ing till your eyes bleed with your level locked so that you can then PvP is <b>anything but</b> hardcore PvP.You are trying to be the biggest midget in the world, and even gratzing yourself for it...</span></blockquote>aye u cant say you play hardcore pvp until your sifting through the hells of ffa, whole guilds with join alliances slaughtering each other in 100's of players everywhere.A friend standing over your crafter so someone doesn't run up and knife you for the laugh.God I can't wait until warhammer. Its the only dam real pvp game coming out so far besides conan.

Armironhead
12-13-2007, 06:20 PM
<cite>deepruntramp wrote:</cite><blockquote>No.I might try a FFA server though -- everyone can communicate with everyone else, anyone can group with anyone else, anyone can kill anyone else.</blockquote>I would like a modified ffa.  plp from fp and exile could kill each other, only limited by guild membership (cant kill other guild members).  Qs on the other hand, being goody two shoes, should be precluded from being able to kill any other q, although they should be allowed to kill any fper or exile they come across.

Rajasa
12-13-2007, 06:28 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>dellaripa wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>Gice it a few days.  I'm sure they'll notice when a good chunk of the playerbase, on their most populated server, no longer pay their monthly dues<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />.  </p></blockquote>Actually, if you look at the number of PvE servers and compare them to the combined population of the PvP servers.. I bet they could shut down the PvP servers all together and still bring in a healthy profit on the game.With that in mind, I wouldn't pet myself on the back for such a brilliant plan yet, Dr. Smith. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote><p>Well said Spyder... The pvp servers bring in practically no income at all for SOE. They want them to succeed, but it's of little consequence.</p><p>The bigger discussion for a much later date is why pvp servers in general are not populated. One of the reasons in all games is the mass of teenagers now playing online games. Rude behavior, cheating, exploiting, hacking... Well... We've all seen it. I shudder at the thought that grown adults are acting in this manner.</p><p>A lot of grownups no longer want to put up with all the negatives that teenagers bring to the table.</p><p>Enough said for now.</p>

Raidyen
12-13-2007, 06:29 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>You seem to be forgetting nagafen is a year and a half old.  players that are in tier 7 and 8 have been playing for awhile, they have aa's, they have pvp rewards, they are all twinked out and godly... And you think they you can race to tier 7 and 8 on combat experience, be severly lacking in AA without any pvp gear and you expect "balanced" combat.... You're in for a shock... Everyone currently in that tier are twinks, far more twinked out then level 20... But you have the choice to counter act that atleast in the lowbie levels with kunark gear to balance out the pvp gear and super easy and fast quests for AA's.</p> </blockquote>Difference is in t2 people are still learning the game. In t7/8 they should know the game by now, and if not, deserve to die. Also, and this is totally opinionated, I think that t2 twinks gear makes them more OP to new ppl than t8 fabled vs MC gear.  In t8 all you need to stand a chance is some MC.</blockquote><p>No disrepect, but have you ever played pvp in T7 or T8?  Gear is everything mate.  And its gear that your average player will have no chance of getting.  Unless your in a Big raid guild, MC is all your going to get, and pre 41 it no comparison.</p><p>I have not experienced yet post gu41, but by just looking at the changes, will be the same thing.</p>

dellaripa
12-13-2007, 06:37 PM
<cite>Rajasa wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>dellaripa wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>Gice it a few days.  I'm sure they'll notice when a good chunk of the playerbase, on their most populated server, no longer pay their monthly dues<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />.  </p></blockquote>Actually, if you look at the number of PvE servers and compare them to the combined population of the PvP servers.. I bet they could shut down the PvP servers all together and still bring in a healthy profit on the game.With that in mind, I wouldn't pet myself on the back for such a brilliant plan yet, Dr. Smith. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15"></blockquote><p>Well said Spyder... The pvp servers bring in practically no income at all for SOE. They want them to succeed, but it's of little consequence.</p><p>The bigger discussion for a much later date is why pvp servers in general are not populated. One of the reasons in all games is the mass of teenagers now playing online games. Rude behavior, cheating, exploiting, hacking... Well... We've all seen it. I shudder at the thought that grown adults are acting in this manner.</p><p>A lot of grownups no longer want to put up with all the negatives that teenagers bring to the table.</p><p>Enough said for now.</p></blockquote><p>Could someone please explain how Nagafen, one of the two highest population servers, represents "almost no income at all for SOE".</p><p>/scratches head. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

Gimet
12-13-2007, 06:38 PM
<cite>Wraithstalker wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>I love how you call us lvl lockers a minority when in every single tier of the game (save T1/7/<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15"> we heavily outweigh those trying to lvl and quite a few of us have T8 charactesr anyway.By us quitting you will be losing players in all tiers of the game.Also the comment about how PvE has the majority of SOE's subs.... you do realize that nagafen is about twice, if not triple the size of most the PvE servers.Our locking did NOTHING to you guys, our locking did not LIMIT the game in any way.  By putting in this change, SOE effectively LIMITED the way we can play thus giving us LESS of an OPTION.Also you are only looking at the revenue lost by the current cancellations.  But if lots of the lockers leave, many of the people who were going to join may not join b/c the population went down.  more ppl will leave b/c there isn't enuf to kill anyway.... etc...etc..By reversing the change, many ppl won't cancel their accounts... and I highly doubt some lvl 80 nub who whines for this change will quit b/c we can stay locked.Reverse the change and everyone wins.Ppl who wanted the change may not like that we can still lock but they won't all burst out with quitting b/c of it.  Lesser of 2 evils - common principle of choice making</blockquote>Trust me, the amount of PVErs outnumber PVPers by a ton. So, please, adapt or quit. If it' so bad that you have to post on the forums, then I suggest you quit.</blockquote><p><span style="font-size: medium;">OK, enough from you I think. You have nothing positive to say, and just are trying to bait people into angry replies.</span> The system 'as is' is not perfect and can be improved, and if you feel like you want to accept that for the coming months without revision, then feel free to vindicate this very simple change as a way of fixing PvP in general. Adapting to an as is system with no way of being rewarded for PvP such as the faction rewards, with no ability to both heaviliy PvP and also investing your skill to grow your character with AA's and equipment that you won't outlevel. This is the broader picture, and you seen focused on singling out one area that is a pretty easy target, and get's the most voicifourous responses, much to your particular enjoyment.</p><p>The voices of discention have a lot more purpose than worrying about there own T2 twinks, and some (which I count myself) are trying to think a little further along the line and to even try and appease all sectors with the community with something that negates negative feedback from people not being happy with this enforced system. It goes a lot further than whining on the forums, and the last thing EQ2 needs is people leaving, we are looking to grow the community.</p><p>So next time you post, maybe think with that hat on instead. This isn't about twinks vs the rest, it's about the community trying to work together to come up with a solution.</p></blockquote><p>You are a little [Removed for Content] in real-life aren't you? EVERYONE LISTEN TO ME! WHAT HE SAYS ISN'T IMPORTANT. And form this thread only-"I thought peeps like you on Venekor would be trying to keep as many people as possible, when i tried it, it was like playing Oblivion?"</p><p>"Well you ain't got either, so I guess I'll be looking for your vote on server merges in the forthcoming months"</p><p>Don't even get me started on your post history. Ask me, dissing someone's server is a perfect way to tick them off. And by how you, and many other people from Nagafen post, you only prove that the obnoxious people who have nothing better to do with their lives but to brag and make fun of other people go to Nagafen.</p><p>Kudos.</p>

CaptainLag
12-13-2007, 06:38 PM
I say we need old school Vallzon Zek item loot pvp.  Who cares if people twink if when you kill them you can loot their precious gear.  When I played EQ1 back in the day I wore full gear and fought the naked ganking mages and ya I lost some nice items but talk about a rush knowing that if you weren't on your best 24/7 you could lose something of value.  The day it went to coin loot it lost its luster and I was gone and I wasn't the one doing the ganking, I was the one trying to survive it but I loved the thrill and challenge of pvp.  I log on to EQ2 to pvp, not to PvE.  For me PvE and quests are a means for me to pvp and now I feel that this change is forcing me to PvE to 80.  Honestly, it doesn't matter if you are 12, 28 or 52, if you log onto a pvp server, get killed and whine about it your probably in the wrong place.  I was a level 15 with no AA and was getting 2 shotted.  I went to the forums and read a guide to pvp. I followed the guide, grouped with some friends and had a blast.  It's really not that hard, it just takes some preperation, planning and a little time.

Tatate
12-13-2007, 06:39 PM
<p>I do agree that this was a 'quick fix' or not entirely thought out. Whining about it though isn't going to help, especially with posts like "omg liek ima go quit now cause this sucks" I understand locking for faction, but I don't find much sense in 'perma-locking'. What SOE needs to do now with people always gaining exp from PVP is:</p><p>1: Tone down exp gain from other players in the lower tiers so it's not such an extreme amount</p><p>2: Make starting faction with Lucanic Knights/ Royal Antonican Guard 0 instead of -10000 (Also give all existing players a +10000 faction boost to their relative factions)</p><p>3: Increase faction gain per player kill (Maybe even implement faction quests with the Lucanic Knights/ Royal Antonican Guard, for example: "Kill 20 opposing faction players for (x) amount of faction"</p>

Rob626
12-13-2007, 06:44 PM
Deekin, Thank you for pointing something out: "It's gear your average player will have no chance of getting" What that is saying is that the average character- which translates to the VAST MAJORITY of characters- are geared out with MC equipment. So if the vast majority of players are kitted out with MC gear, does that not indicate that the majority of the fights will be more equal? The people that take the time to advance their skills and gear beyond the masses will still dominate, as they should, but now the gap between the haves and the have nots has narrowed. One other point: if the player base as a whole shifts up a tier or two but there remains a hard cap of lvl 80, that means that the player base has concentrated into fewer zones which actually INCREASES the amount of pvp available to the entire population. Majo, 73 Guardian for Shadow Guard, Venekor

Gimet
12-13-2007, 06:44 PM
<cite>dellaripa wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rajasa wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>dellaripa wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>Gice it a few days.  I'm sure they'll notice when a good chunk of the playerbase, on their most populated server, no longer pay their monthly dues<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />.  </p></blockquote>Actually, if you look at the number of PvE servers and compare them to the combined population of the PvP servers.. I bet they could shut down the PvP servers all together and still bring in a healthy profit on the game.With that in mind, I wouldn't pet myself on the back for such a brilliant plan yet, Dr. Smith. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15"></blockquote><p>Well said Spyder... The pvp servers bring in practically no income at all for SOE. They want them to succeed, but it's of little consequence.</p><p>The bigger discussion for a much later date is why pvp servers in general are not populated. One of the reasons in all games is the mass of teenagers now playing online games. Rude behavior, cheating, exploiting, hacking... Well... We've all seen it. I shudder at the thought that grown adults are acting in this manner.</p><p>A lot of grownups no longer want to put up with all the negatives that teenagers bring to the table.</p><p>Enough said for now.</p></blockquote><p>Could someone please explain how Nagafen, one of the two highest population servers, represents "almost no income at all for SOE".</p><p>/scratches head. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote><p>I can explain! Out of the 3 PvP servers, 1 of them has a high population....and the other 2 are "dead" by that server's standards. So, one PvP server out of over 20 servers that has a large population. Hate to break it to you, but a lot of the other srevers have higher populations than Nagafen. So, there are more people in PvE than in PvP, even representing the larger Pvp server.</p><p>Losing everyone on Nagafen, hell, PvP, does not hurt them as much as one would think.</p>

Rob626
12-13-2007, 06:48 PM
RattFace hit the nail on the head and I wish I had said it so succinctly! Majo, 73 Guardian for Shadow Guard, Venekor

dellaripa
12-13-2007, 06:52 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>dellaripa wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rajasa wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>dellaripa wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>Gice it a few days.  I'm sure they'll notice when a good chunk of the playerbase, on their most populated server, no longer pay their monthly dues<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />.  </p></blockquote>Actually, if you look at the number of PvE servers and compare them to the combined population of the PvP servers.. I bet they could shut down the PvP servers all together and still bring in a healthy profit on the game.With that in mind, I wouldn't pet myself on the back for such a brilliant plan yet, Dr. Smith. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15"></blockquote><p>Well said Spyder... The pvp servers bring in practically no income at all for SOE. They want them to succeed, but it's of little consequence.</p><p>The bigger discussion for a much later date is why pvp servers in general are not populated. One of the reasons in all games is the mass of teenagers now playing online games. Rude behavior, cheating, exploiting, hacking... Well... We've all seen it. I shudder at the thought that grown adults are acting in this manner.</p><p>A lot of grownups no longer want to put up with all the negatives that teenagers bring to the table.</p><p>Enough said for now.</p></blockquote><p>Could someone please explain how Nagafen, one of the two highest population servers, represents "almost no income at all for SOE".</p><p>/scratches head. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote><p>I can explain! Out of the 3 PvP servers, 1 of them has a high population....and the other 2 are "dead" by that server's standards. So, one PvP server out of over 20 servers that has a large population. Hate to break it to you, but a lot of the other srevers have higher populations than Nagafen. So, there are more people in PvE than in PvP, even representing the larger Pvp server.</p><p>Losing everyone on Nagafen, hell, PvP, does not hurt them as much as one would think.</p></blockquote><p>Make a new player lately? </p><p>I have.</p><p>Before yesterday, Nagafen was continually one of two servers (out of all of them) listed as High (or is it Heavy?).  The other one was the PVE (AB?) server.</p><p>Of course, I bet, if you made a new toon today, server load will be listed as Medium.  If this patch holds true to form, tomorrow it might be listed as Light<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

Duotang
12-13-2007, 06:53 PM
<p>All you stupid level lockers did it to yourselves.</p><p>Level locking was implemented to allow an option for a player to gain some extra AA, before venturing on to larger worlds. You (the lockers) have decided to "exploit" this option by staying at one level your entire "career: and creating x4 raids to obliterate any "legit" players that are adventuring, and questing. Yes, PvP servers are just that, but most true EQ2 lovers enjoy good PvP within boundaries. </p>If you want total chaos and anarchy, maybe EQ2 is not the MMO for you. Well done Sony.

KannaWhoopass
12-13-2007, 06:56 PM
<p>Woah call a spade a spade... </p><p>Level locking is Carebear PvP ....</p><p>It is based on preying on the weak .. </p><p>Maximizing your potential for victory based on a larger accumulation of AA points and Gear, than your opponent. </p><p>PvP ing in an environment where classes have not got access to in game items ,potions and totems , to counter the overpowering strengths of characters at certain levels.  </p><p>The people who areupset are those who</p><p>Needed to invest less in their character , in order to kill other players with ease. </p><p>Needed to spend less time , on their character to achieve , an advantage over their opponents. </p><p>Chose to stay in a state where they could prey on the most inexpierienced under geared players in the game. </p><p>Are for the most part scared to play with players who have weathered the gank squads , leveled , thru dozens of levels of PvP. Watches some classes gain power in certain tiers only to become weaker in others and have learned to fight them all. </p><p>Have learned how to complement other classes thru raiding .. and how to maximize their own by PvP in all tiers. </p><p>If you are too intimidated to play with those players. Ok each their own .. </p><p>But to claim that T2-T4 PvP is by any stretch of the imagination .. more skilled .. or "Hardcore" is just plain wrong. </p><p>And to flood the boards with "Im gonna Quit" because you took my easy mode gank style of play away .. Is not going to generate any sympathy from players , who see it for what it is .. and who leveled thru that sad tier that was t2-t3 noob slaughter  </p>

Gimet
12-13-2007, 06:57 PM
<cite>dellaripa wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>dellaripa wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rajasa wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>dellaripa wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>Gice it a few days.  I'm sure they'll notice when a good chunk of the playerbase, on their most populated server, no longer pay their monthly dues<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />.  </p></blockquote>Actually, if you look at the number of PvE servers and compare them to the combined population of the PvP servers.. I bet they could shut down the PvP servers all together and still bring in a healthy profit on the game.With that in mind, I wouldn't pet myself on the back for such a brilliant plan yet, Dr. Smith. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15"></blockquote><p>Well said Spyder... The pvp servers bring in practically no income at all for SOE. They want them to succeed, but it's of little consequence.</p><p>The bigger discussion for a much later date is why pvp servers in general are not populated. One of the reasons in all games is the mass of teenagers now playing online games. Rude behavior, cheating, exploiting, hacking... Well... We've all seen it. I shudder at the thought that grown adults are acting in this manner.</p><p>A lot of grownups no longer want to put up with all the negatives that teenagers bring to the table.</p><p>Enough said for now.</p></blockquote><p>Could someone please explain how Nagafen, one of the two highest population servers, represents "almost no income at all for SOE".</p><p>/scratches head. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote><p>I can explain! Out of the 3 PvP servers, 1 of them has a high population....and the other 2 are "dead" by that server's standards. So, one PvP server out of over 20 servers that has a large population. Hate to break it to you, but a lot of the other srevers have higher populations than Nagafen. So, there are more people in PvE than in PvP, even representing the larger Pvp server.</p><p>Losing everyone on Nagafen, hell, PvP, does not hurt them as much as one would think.</p></blockquote><p>Make a new player lately? </p><p>I have.</p><p>Before yesterday, Nagafen was continually one of two servers (out of all of them) listed as High (or is it Heavy?).  The other one was the PVE (AB?) server.</p><p>Of course, I bet, if you made a new toon today, server load will be listed as Medium.  If this patch holds true to form, tomorrow it might be listed as Light<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote><p>And then maybe perhaps with the "Light", all of your from Nagafen can understand the difference of a low population and a dead one.</p><p>I never said it wouldn't PvP. And honestly, do you really think everyone who is quitting really is quitting? They're moving to the PvE servers. Have you created a new character THERE lately? PvP is only a fraciton of the player base. And a large part of that player base isn't really quitting.</p><p>SoE knows this already.</p>

Pyra Shineflame
12-13-2007, 07:05 PM
<p>Point: No one will be leveling to 80 as fast as many like to claim.</p><p>Point: If and when you do get to 80 and still don't like it, there's always the option to reroll.</p><p>Point: If players level constantly without taking the time to get AAs by the time they are in T4 they deserve to die.</p><p>Point: If they still don't know their classes by the time they reach T4 they deserve to die.</p><p>Point: T2 ganking is (or was) a problem.</p><p>Point: The change doesn't make locking viable until the 30's (but of course there are those that say they support no locking until 30 period but now they can still lock but not have the benefits until 30...they complain).</p><p>Point: SOE gets most of its money from PvE servers BUT</p><p>Point: Driving away new players (we don't care if you sucked it up and competed with the twinks...not everyone has to be like you to get anywhere) is not a smart business move.</p><p>Point: As many people I have heard quitting, I have heard more being happy about the change or considering rolling on the pvp servers now.</p><p>Point: The lockers that complain that there is no pvp elsewhere made it that way be locking indefinitely.</p><p>Point: At level cap it'll be fabled versus MC...but the majority will be MC and even so...its still possible to beat the fable toons.</p><p>Question: What exactly was the problem again?</p>

Wraithstalker
12-13-2007, 07:07 PM
<cite>KannaWhoopass wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Woah call a spade a spade... </p><p>Level locking is Carebear PvP ....</p><p>It is based on preying on the weak .. </p><p>Maximizing your potential for victory based on a larger accumulation of AA points and Gear, than your opponent. </p><p>PvP ing in an environment where classes have not got access to in game items ,potions and totems , to counter the overpowering strengths of characters at certain levels.  </p><p>The people who areupset are those who</p><p>Needed to invest less in their character , in order to kill other players with ease. </p><p>Needed to spend less time , on their character to achieve , an advantage over their opponents. </p><p>Chose to stay in a state where they could prey on the most inexpierienced under geared players in the game. </p><p>Are for the most part scared to play with players who have weathered the gank squads , leveled , thru dozens of levels of PvP. Watches some classes gain power in certain tiers only to become weaker in others and have learned to fight them all. </p><p>Have learned how to complement other classes thru raiding .. and how to maximize their own by PvP in all tiers. </p><p>If you are too intimidated to play with those players. Ok each their own .. </p><p>But to claim that T2-T4 PvP is by any stretch of the imagination .. more skilled .. or "Hardcore" is just plain wrong. </p><p>And to flood the boards with "Im gonna Quit" because you took my easy mode gank style of play away .. Is not going to generate any sympathy from players , who see it for what it is .. and who leveled thru that sad tier that was t2-t3 noob slaughter  </p></blockquote><p>OK, sorry to pick on you, but I need to illustrate a point.</p><p>If you read the initial title of the post, it was about ideas for a new server. Now what you have written here is something, you no doubt, have been wanting to get off your chest, but I am struggling to see it's relevence.</p><p>Now what you propose is that 'you took my easy mode gank style of play away', the initial post directly contradicts this, as there is a distinction, the existing system or a proposed new server that poses more of a challenge. The fact there is a 'hardcore' (A term which I think is not acceptable, as people seem to read too much into this, let's call it classic or something that doesn't indicate 'leet skillz'<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> server means that you will be fighting players who use exactly the same technique, want group v group battles and compete at each and every level without having to rush to the endgame to experience this challenge.</p><p>Like I said, apologies for singling out your comments, but seeing as I started a thread, I want to make sure it at least lives up to it's title.</p>

Raidyen
12-13-2007, 07:22 PM
<cite>Rob626 wrote:</cite><blockquote>The people that take the time to advance their skills and gear beyond the masses will still dominate, as they should, but now the gap between the haves and the have nots has narrowed.</blockquote><p>Yes they will still dominate.  And we will be right back here with another slap fix by SoE in 3 months to accomidate that problem.  Exp debt, aa cap, forced exps, the list will go on until the pvp game that many of us know and love is completely gone.</p><p>Allow us to relock our pvp exps after level 39.</p>

KannaWhoopass
12-13-2007, 07:23 PM
<p>Dont worry you are not picking on me.. </p><p>But im justr trying to point out that .. aasking for a whole server to be created to support a style of play .. which sighting of recent changes has been seen as LAME and not desired...  </p><p> Isn not going to happen .. </p><p>You might as well ask for an in combat evac server </p><p>and an out of combat healing server </p><p>and a reduced manashiled server .. </p><p>Im sure you get my point .. </p><p>The playstyle you are describing , was complained about by the community as being a less than desirable , side effect of a well intended feature. </p><p>Dedicating a server to preserve what in my mind and alot of the comunities .. was a mistake .. i think is unlikelly ..  </p>

Ze
12-13-2007, 07:25 PM
<cite>Rob626 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Deekin, Thank you for pointing something out:"It's gear your average player will have no chance of getting"What that is saying is that the average character- which translates to the VAST MAJORITY of characters- are geared out with MC equipment.So if the vast majority of players are kitted out with MC gear, does that not indicate that the majority of the fights will be more equal?The people that take the time to advance their skills and gear beyond the masses will still dominate, as they should, but now the gap between the haves and the have nots has narrowed.One other point: if the player base as a whole shifts up a tier or two but there remains a hard cap of lvl 80, that means that the player base has concentrated into fewer zones which actually INCREASES the amount of pvp available to the entire population.</blockquote><p>Hard to argue against Logic... but they will still try...</p>

Ze
12-13-2007, 07:28 PM
You don't like t7-t8? Reroll...

Pyra Shineflame
12-13-2007, 07:28 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rob626 wrote:</cite><blockquote>The people that take the time to advance their skills and gear beyond the masses will still dominate, as they should, but now the gap between the haves and the have nots has narrowed.</blockquote><p>Yes they will still dominate.  And we will be right back here with another slap fix by SoE in 3 months to accomidate that problem.  Exp debt, <b>aa cap</b>, forced exps, the list will go on until the pvp game that many of us know and love is completely gone.</p><p>Allow us to relock our pvp exps after level 39.</p></blockquote><p>What's this I hear about the AA cap?</p><p>Could you be refering to the same cap that is on the PvE servers by any chance?</p>

Roald
12-13-2007, 07:42 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>Milambers.. .what in the hell about locking is carebear/ezmode?You make no sense</blockquote><p>What isn't? </p><p>And I make perfect sense <3.</p>

Roald
12-13-2007, 07:53 PM
<p>Kulharin, out of all the crying lockers, even including puissant or w/e his name is, you are the most blinded and desperate.</p><p>You right essay's multiple times in multiple threads saying pretty much exactly the same thing. The whole time during this, you call other people fools and blind.</p><p>You are infact the blinded one, blinded by your desperation to save locking.</p><p>Inc generic essay response!</p>

Wraithstalker
12-13-2007, 07:58 PM
<cite>KannaWhoopass wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Dont worry you are not picking on me.. </p><p>But im justr trying to point out that .. aasking for a whole server to be created to support a style of play .. which sighting of recent changes has been seen as LAME and not desired...  </p><p> Isn not going to happen .. </p><p>You might as well ask for an in combat evac server </p><p>and an out of combat healing server </p><p>and a reduced manashiled server .. </p><p>Im sure you get my point .. </p><p>The playstyle you are describing , was complained about by the community as being a less than desirable , side effect of a well intended feature. </p><p>Dedicating a server to preserve what in my mind and alot of the comunities .. was a mistake .. i think is unlikelly ..  </p></blockquote><p>I created this thread, because in another someone expressed their desire to have a hardcore server. I'm not really inclined that way, but I think it would be interesting to appease the players that relish a little more of a challenge, and at the same time not be one of the millions of people who drive away every single person who plays EQ2, as some claim <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>I figured that people who were strongly against the recent changes would see this as an opportunity to state what they are really looking for, but am kinda dissappointed with the results.</p><p>For me it was a change too far. I'm by no means a noob killer, I just locked for AA's and spent time read each and every quest, just doing my own thing solo. If I was attacked, I would attack back, win or loose (loosing a lot). I was hoping to get some PvP stuff at some point, so did indulge in fights whenever I could. However if I had done this at the rate needed to get PvP armor now, it would have leveled me all the way to 80 with very little money and not really having a chance to 'everquest' but to blow through a lot of stuff I wanted to see and wanted to be challenging and grey it out. </p><p>The change for me has altered my playstyle for the worse, and I don't think that is the desired effect fo the change, I don't want to be lvl 80 overnight, and at the same time I want to PvP to the full. I think it was so targetted at the people who stand in great numbers to obliterate lvl 10 toons, that the larger picture was overlooked of people just wanting to do all the quests and pvp and get their money's worth of the game. I don't blow $29 a month likely, I demand value, and the way the game was offered me a lot to do and see and still get involved in the community aspect.</p><p>I just feel that now my choices are to either PvP or quest, and not really both to any great degree, so I think I might try the PvP on Vanguard and look what else is out there that offers me freedom to play the game the way I enjoy. It's not saying bad things about EQ2, I just don't like the fact that this change was added with absolutely no feedback or consultation here, and also no one has the stones to comment since, kinda feel shut out. I also read the PvP was not a very large part of the game in terms of numbers, well that makes me feel more like a burden than a customer. If it's really that unpopular, i need to get to something that does support pvp like I have been doing, because it's been great.</p><p>A new server might allow for a more PvP centric game, it could open up new possibilities both in terms of community and playstyle, where the penalties were more severe. At the same time it would be something the 'hardcore' crowd would relish and stop them thinking about moving away.</p><p>I don't have all the answers, but I'd like to explore with player what they would want to see in PvP. I think it's pretty obvious that we got pretty shodily treated with this single line of code fix, and no change to pvp rewards, faction gain etc. It's appears ill advised at best, and I hope whoeover is steering the good ship EQ2 now has a good idea where it is going, and if so, allow players to see the direction. If PvP is not part of Everquest 2, then I wasn't aware it was such a minority. Right now it feels like another MMO where people race to lvl 20 then just PvP all the time. There is much more to EQ2 than that, and this change doesn't give a chance for content to be useful.</p><p>The devs have been extraordinary lucky that players have made so much of T2 content, and that's the thing, this really is knocking the biggest source of player made content on the server for 6. I can't pretend that change is good, when I feel what was there was great for me, and all I can see if now being pushed closer towards the precipice that is endgame. After three years of subscription, I didn't really see that I'd get all this finished up. Obviously that is not the opinion of all here, and I respectfully read their opinions. i believe I've seen more posts here celebrating hubris than actually offering anything constructive about the long term viability of EQ and PvP, after all, that's why we are all here?</p>

Pyra Shineflame
12-13-2007, 07:59 PM
<p>I've yet to have anyone respond to my posts in the pvp section...</p><p>Maybe they are all afraid of me? =P</p>

Raidyen
12-13-2007, 08:12 PM
<p>Please no "I Quit", or "Your a T2 Twink", or "adapt or quit" posts here please.  There are half a dozen other threads we can do that on, so lets keep it there.  Don't worry im not dilluting myself into thinking SOE might actaully take anything we say seriously, but i would like to engage some forward thinking intellegent people on the issue, reguardless of whether it gets changed or not.</p><p>I would like to get a discussion going about possiblities to preserve some gameplay styles, while allowing the new lower tier players time to learn, grow, and become good pvp players.</p><p>I personally propose a very simple solution.  Allow people to relock thier pvp exps after level 39.  I am no game coder, but i would think that wouldnt be to difficult to do.  I beleive it would accomplish several things.</p><p>1.  It will allow new players 39 levels of fairly safe pvp play.  They will have pvp, but it won't be in the swarms that we are used to now in T2 and T3.</p><p>2.  It will allow old players that prefer the T5 or T6 pvp to stay there, and away from the T8 pvp which many don't like.</p><p>3.  It is almost impossible to twink out a level 40+ character.  Sure you can get MC gear, but at that level so can everyone else, and with the new increases to it, it is better then any fabled gear out there at that tier.  Also Master 1's are easiest to come buy in the 30's and 40's.</p><p>4.  There are plenty of places to go at that level, and even some instances if you really want to just hunt in peace.</p><p> I would like to here opinions on both sides, good or bad, if you think it wont work and why, or if you have a better idea lets hear it.</p>

Wraithstalker
12-13-2007, 08:23 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Please no "I Quit", or "Your a T2 Twink", or "adapt or quit" posts here please.  There are half a dozen other threads we can do that on, so lets keep it there.  Don't worry im not dilluting myself into thinking SOE might actaully take anything we say seriously, but i would like to engage some forward thinking intellegent people on the issue, reguardless of whether it gets changed or not.</p><p>I would like to get a discussion going about possiblities to preserve some gameplay styles, while allowing the new lower tier players time to learn, grow, and become good pvp players.</p><p>I personally propose a very simple solution.  Allow people to relock thier pvp exps after level 39.  I am no game coder, but i would think that wouldnt be to difficult to do.  I beleive it would accomplish several things.</p><p>1.  It will allow new players 39 levels of fairly safe pvp play.  They will have pvp, but it won't be in the swarms that we are used to now in T2 and T3.</p><p>2.  It will allow old players that prefer the T5 or T6 pvp to stay there, and away from the T8 pvp which many don't like.</p><p>3.  It is almost impossible to twink out a level 40+ character.  Sure you can get MC gear, but at that level so can everyone else, and with the new increases to it, it is better then any fabled gear out there at that tier.  Also Master 1's are easiest to come buy in the 30's and 40's.</p><p>4.  There are plenty of places to go at that level, and even some instances if you really want to just hunt in peace.</p><p> I would like to here opinions on both sides, good or bad, if you think it wont work and why, or if you have a better idea lets hear it.</p></blockquote><p>I appreciate you have been inventive here in offering this solution, but I can see it being the right answer myself. I'd prefer the incentives and enjoyment to be increased as you level. For instance, mounts locked in at levels, slower usage of AA's at lower levels. This whole problem was equipment based, they may as well taken out the pvp gear and titles, and kept locking in, but I think they wanted to sell more expansions.</p><p>The fact that there were so many T2 lockers means that I can see this behaviour being repeated at any level where they can prevent progression, so while it might delay the offset of 'locking' I think it's inevitable anyway that people will want to be a lot stronger than otehr players at that level.</p><p>If the devs really need us to go to lvl 80, so be it, I just think it's foreshortening most peoples subscriptions --> Expansion, level to cap, pvp a bit and get AA's cancel till next one). I will also expect more resource to be invested into balancing and new things at this level that makes PvP a lot more fun. If they want to direct us to the upper levels, they better have something special for us in the pipeline waiting, other than overcrowded zones and the feeling of having done it all.</p><p>I feel that while you say things are almost impossible, we know that things are indeed possible given time. I never thought I'd here of a lvl 10 toon with over 18'AA banked for instance. Give players a challenge, they'll more and equal the task at hand.</p>

tshook
12-13-2007, 08:26 PM
<p>I would like a Hard Core PVP server.</p><p>You die, you re-roll.  Everyone fights, everywhere.  no safe zones, no faction, nothing.</p><p>Actually I would like an ultra-hard-core pvp server.</p><p>You die, Sony sends Ray-Ray and Big Steve to your house to kill you.</p>

Wraithstalker
12-13-2007, 08:27 PM
<cite>tshook wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I would like a Hard Core PVP server.</p><p>You die, you re-roll.  Everyone fights, everywhere.  no safe zones, no faction, nothing.</p><p>Actually I would like an ultra-hard-core pvp server.</p><p>You die, Sony sends Ray-Ray and Big Steve to your house to kill you.</p></blockquote>Thanks

Captain Apple Darkberry
12-13-2007, 08:35 PM
<cite>Wraithstalker wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>I created this thread, because in another someone expressed their desire to have a hardcore server. I'm not really inclined that way, but I think it would be interesting to appease the players that relish a little more of a challenge... /snip</p><p>A new server might allow for a more PvP centric game, it could open up new possibilities both in terms of community and playstyle, where the penalties were more severe. At the same time it would be something the 'hardcore' crowd would relish and stop them thinking about moving away....  /snip</p></blockquote><span style="color: #ff3300;">Why are you still calling it harcore?  Its not hardcore.  Its easymode.How would it create a more "PvP centric" game?  Your talking about a server where your hardcore PvE mode gaming style that you covet is protected.You want a hardcore PvE server where you get to PvP as an add on.Hardcore PvP server?  Try this.  No xp from mob kills.  No xp from quests.  No instances.  No raid zones.  Any PvP kill gives xp <b>and AA</b> unless you are locked, in which case it gives neither, only faction.  All toons would end up with the same AAs at the same level, with NO PvE content required.  All tiers have PvP gear, full sets.  PvP starts at level 1.  PvP, all the time.</span>

KannaWhoopass
12-13-2007, 08:41 PM
<p>I dont think some people accept the fact that the lower tiers are for noobs.. </p><p>I dont mean people who dont know how to macro their attackes ... or the fastest means to travel from freeport to Qeynos .. </p><p>I mean for people who cant find their quest log. </p><p>Use the level 4 spell at level 10 becaue they dont know they got a new one .. and hell they look the same. </p><p>Guardians wearing cloth becaue this piece had +10 int on it and my plate chest had no stats.. </p><p>PvP servers are not an evoloution from PvE servers they are a mirror of them with PvP enabled. </p><p>That does not mean that there will be no noobs here or that they should not be welcomed. </p><p>The response of go play on a blue server was a lame response to those who wanted to play everquest.. and not Oly PvP ... </p><p>New players needed a place where they can be new.. </p><p>If you are leveling up too fast in PvP for the tier you are in then perhaps you are too good for that tier. </p><p>If killing 10 people levels you out of that tier in 1 hour ... that is a good indication that .. you are not a noob and do not belong in that tier ... becasue noobs can take a day or 2 or more to kill 10 people .. </p><p>The changes are for the better .. no need to create a server so players can lock .. </p><p>The ammount of PvP exp goes down as you level up .. so at some point you can kill like a lunatic and not level out of the tier for weeks .. .. </p>

Wraithstalker
12-13-2007, 08:41 PM
<cite>Captain Apple Darkberry wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wraithstalker wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>I created this thread, because in another someone expressed their desire to have a hardcore server. I'm not really inclined that way, but I think it would be interesting to appease the players that relish a little more of a challenge... /snip</p><p>A new server might allow for a more PvP centric game, it could open up new possibilities both in terms of community and playstyle, where the penalties were more severe. At the same time it would be something the 'hardcore' crowd would relish and stop them thinking about moving away....  /snip</p></blockquote><span style="color: #ff3300;">Why are you still calling it harcore?  Its not hardcore.  Its easymode.How would it create a more "PvP centric" game?  Your talking about a server where your hardcore PvE mode gaming style that you covet is protected.You want a hardcore PvE server where you get to PvP as an add on.Hardcore PvP server?  Try this.  No xp from mob kills.  No xp from quests.  No instances.  No raid zones.  Any PvP kill gives xp <b>and AA</b> unless you are locked, in which case it gives neither, only faction.  All toons would end up with the same AAs at the same level, with NO PvE content required.  All tiers have PvP gear, full sets.  PvP starts at level 1.  PvP, all the time.</span></blockquote><p>I've seen you chime in with the same thing in other threads, I'll just direct you to the responses you already got rather than to repeat what other said about this. The fact that everyone is right at the top of their abilities throughout the whole game at every level would indeed make PvP quite tough. I think you've kind of focused a bit too much on the (despicable relentless noob killer) tm as this isn't a noob server. To reiterate, being 'hardcore' or whatever you want to call it, means EVERYONE is hardcore or accomplished, there is no easymode, as everyone is [Removed for Content] hard to kill and rolls in groups. I can't quite see how you got from that to easymode, unless you copy pasted this part form another thread and forget to change the context?</p><p>Also I've been pretty nice on this thread to develop the conversation. Now looking at the way you present your arguement, it's 'YOU' this or 'YOU' that, I stated in my original post that I wanted interaction on this subject, so thanks for your input. It would make it easier to understand to present it as a suggestion than as a critisism of another's idea, as I think you can apreciate it doesn't go over as well.</p>

Wingfoott
12-13-2007, 08:43 PM
<p>Wow-Well put Wraithstalker! I think thats one of the better posts I've seen on this topic.</p><p> I think SOE completely over-looked and under-estimated the large group of us who enjoy locking to both PVP at their best and to experience PVE in a more exciting environment (having to look over your shoulder while questing definitely adds to the intensity) at their own pace. I think there a very few people that lock solely to kill "newbs" fresh off the island and now SOE changed the entire game (ruining what many people enjoyed most-exploring all of the content-and building up their character as best they could) just for those few. And to not change the faction system along with the xp change, to make it a complete over-haul of the system that makes sense, and not just the quick fix that it is, is just a slap in the face. </p><p> I'd be all for an alternate PVP server with more liberal-ffa type rules, with less of the hand holding, and interference by SOE to make a socialist type game where everyone is equal. If you put in the time to build up your character just so-you should and will be a stronger player than those that rush through the tiers-in both experience (knowing your character) and gear. What's wrong with that? Running around in a game where we are all the same level-same class-and do the same damage is boring. There's a reason role-playing games are fun. You get what you put into it. Rush through the levels with crap gear, well you're character is going to be crap. Take your time, quest, save up gold, loot good gear, tweak your AA lines just right, etc. and your character is going to benefit from it. Let the factions and guild's protect their own, we don't need SOE to do that, it's what makes PVP fun.</p>

Spyderbite
12-13-2007, 08:43 PM
<cite>tass wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>God I can't wait until warhammer. Its the only dam real pvp game coming out so far besides conan.</blockquote>*chuckles* due to NDA reasons I can't give any details.. only that you are very, very wrong about both games. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

Wraithstalker
12-13-2007, 08:57 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>tass wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>God I can't wait until warhammer. Its the only dam real pvp game coming out so far besides conan.</blockquote>*chuckles* due to NDA reasons I can't give any details.. only that you are very, very wrong about both games. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote><p>Conan = more linear than Oblivion, definite console game</p><p>Warhammer Online = [Removed for Content] WoW clone</p><p>The only real milage ongoing is in the existing games adding new stuff, EQ is doing an awesome job. Sometimes it's better the devil you know, that's why I want people to expect more and push for more from SOE.</p>

Eluzay
12-13-2007, 09:17 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Please no "I Quit", or "Your a T2 Twink", or "adapt or quit" posts here please.  There are half a dozen other threads we can do that on, so lets keep it there.  Don't worry im not dilluting myself into thinking SOE might actaully take anything we say seriously, but i would like to engage some forward thinking intellegent people on the issue, reguardless of whether it gets changed or not.</p><p>I would like to get a discussion going about possiblities to preserve some gameplay styles, while allowing the new lower tier players time to learn, grow, and become good pvp players.</p><p>I personally propose a very simple solution.  Allow people to relock thier pvp exps after level 39.  I am no game coder, but i would think that wouldnt be to difficult to do.  I beleive it would accomplish several things.</p><p>1.  It will allow new players 39 levels of fairly safe pvp play.  They will have pvp, but it won't be in the swarms that we are used to now in T2 and T3.</p><p>2.  It will allow old players that prefer the T5 or T6 pvp to stay there, and away from the T8 pvp which many don't like.</p><p>3.  It is almost impossible to twink out a level 40+ character.  Sure you can get MC gear, but at that level so can everyone else, and with the new increases to it, it is better then any fabled gear out there at that tier.  Also Master 1's are easiest to come buy in the 30's and 40's.</p><p>4.  There are plenty of places to go at that level, and even some instances if you really want to just hunt in peace.</p><p> I would like to here opinions on both sides, good or bad, if you think it wont work and why, or if you have a better idea lets hear it.</p></blockquote>1) if you allow locking at 39 there will be just as many lockers as there are in T22) many dont like T8 pvp? even the people IN T8 have only had a few weeks to play, this is a completely bs statement as anybody that hated the uber fabled T7 guys now has a more level playing field (at least for a while)3) it is possible to SUPER TWINK in any tier, get a clue and stop trying to misinform (this is 3 for 3 misinformation)4) there are plenty of places to level in any tier... and who are you to dictate someone hide in instances because a bunch of locked twinks pwn you if you want to play the game as it was intended.... the lockers are the ones dictating how game should be played, not anyone else.My better idea, deal with it and move on, or quit.

toenukl
12-13-2007, 09:32 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>You seem to be forgetting nagafen is a year and a half old.  players that are in tier 7 and 8 have been playing for awhile, they have aa's, they have pvp rewards, they are all twinked out and godly... And you think they you can race to tier 7 and 8 on combat experience, be severly lacking in AA without any pvp gear and you expect "balanced" combat.... You're in for a shock... Everyone currently in that tier are twinks, far more twinked out then level 20... But you have the choice to counter act that atleast in the lowbie levels with kunark gear to balance out the pvp gear and super easy and fast quests for AA's.</p> </blockquote>Difference is in t2 people are still learning the game. In t7/8 they should know the game by now, and if not, deserve to die. Also, and this is totally opinionated, I think that t2 twinks gear makes them more OP to new ppl than t8 fabled vs MC gear.  In t8 all you need to stand a chance is some MC.</blockquote><p>No disrepect, but have you ever played pvp in T7 or T8?  Gear is everything mate.  And its gear that your average player will have no chance of getting.  Unless your in a Big raid guild, MC is all your going to get, and pre 41 it no comparison.</p><p>I have not experienced yet post gu41, but by just looking at the changes, will be the same thing.</p></blockquote>Yup, been level 70 for a LONG time, and progressing to 80 atm(would be 80 but work sux during the holidays). IMO, gear is still a big deal in t8, but not so much as a newbie in island gear vs a fabled twink.For example, in t2 it is possible to get resists so high that you resist almost every single thing thrown at you using horses w/ resists and potions.

Wraithstalker
12-13-2007, 09:33 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Please no "I Quit", or "Your a T2 Twink", or "adapt or quit" posts here please.  There are half a dozen other threads we can do that on, so lets keep it there.  Don't worry im not dilluting myself into thinking SOE might actaully take anything we say seriously, but i would like to engage some forward thinking intellegent people on the issue, reguardless of whether it gets changed or not.</p><p>I would like to get a discussion going about possiblities to preserve some gameplay styles, while allowing the new lower tier players time to learn, grow, and become good pvp players.</p><p>I personally propose a very simple solution.  Allow people to relock thier pvp exps after level 39.  I am no game coder, but i would think that wouldnt be to difficult to do.  I beleive it would accomplish several things.</p><p>1.  It will allow new players 39 levels of fairly safe pvp play.  They will have pvp, but it won't be in the swarms that we are used to now in T2 and T3.</p><p>2.  It will allow old players that prefer the T5 or T6 pvp to stay there, and away from the T8 pvp which many don't like.</p><p>3.  It is almost impossible to twink out a level 40+ character.  Sure you can get MC gear, but at that level so can everyone else, and with the new increases to it, it is better then any fabled gear out there at that tier.  Also Master 1's are easiest to come buy in the 30's and 40's.</p><p>4.  There are plenty of places to go at that level, and even some instances if you really want to just hunt in peace.</p><p> I would like to here opinions on both sides, good or bad, if you think it wont work and why, or if you have a better idea lets hear it.</p></blockquote>1) if you allow locking at 39 there will be just as many lockers as there are in T22) many dont like T8 pvp? even the people IN T8 have only had a few weeks to play, this is a completely bs statement as anybody that hated the uber fabled T7 guys now has a more level playing field (at least for a while)3) it is possible to SUPER TWINK in any tier, get a clue and stop trying to misinform (this is 3 for 3 misinformation)4) there are plenty of places to level in any tier... and who are you to dictate someone hide in instances because a bunch of locked twinks pwn you if you want to play the game as it was intended.... the lockers are the ones dictating how game should be played, not anyone else.My better idea, deal with it and move on, or quit.</blockquote>OK let me pull you up there, you did OK until the last sentence, which was unnecessary.If you are convinced this one line code change is going to fix PvP woes you are very much mistaken, it will create problems of it's own. The fact you advice people to 'deal with it' show a lack of ambition, and I'm not posting here to accept the gradual lack of development in PvP, I want a lot more. The fact that some people can be quite so compliant is a concern. If we would have just 'sucked it up' before, then there would have been a lot of very unpopular ideas go live. The fact the original poster acknowledges a perceived problem, dictates there is one, and his willingness to make suggestions shows he is an asset to the community and wants people to continue playing, rather than advising them to leave the game, which doesn't do anyone any favours.

Kulharr
12-13-2007, 09:39 PM
<p>Many suggestions better than what SOE did.  Suggestions that were made and ignored, as an untested change was fast-forwarded without debate or suggestions being taken into account..</p><p>-Make pvp xp no more then 1 or 2% at most, tier, level, vitality should not make a difference</p><p>-Reduce the faction required for pvp gear, start with 0 instead of -10,000</p><p>-Introduce pvp events, quests, missions, bounties that are rewarded with fame and faction</p><p>There you go, all problems solved.</p><p>As for move on and quit... It's amazing to me the hypocracy of these people, they whined and refused to adapt, which really only required a one day trip to kunark or get out of tier 2, and then tell us to stop whining and adapt because 2 different playstyles were butchered?  Why should we, do we not have the same right as you?  Why didn't you adapt or quit and stop whining?  clearly thats the language SOE understands, not logic.  if that's what we must do to get the system balanced then so be it.</p>

toenukl
12-13-2007, 09:46 PM
<cite>Pyra Shineflame wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rob626 wrote:</cite><blockquote>The people that take the time to advance their skills and gear beyond the masses will still dominate, as they should, but now the gap between the haves and the have nots has narrowed.</blockquote><p>Yes they will still dominate.  And we will be right back here with another slap fix by SoE in 3 months to accomidate that problem.  Exp debt, <b>aa cap</b>, forced exps, the list will go on until the pvp game that many of us know and love is completely gone.</p><p>Allow us to relock our pvp exps after level 39.</p></blockquote><p>What's this I hear about the AA cap?</p><p>Could you be refering to the same cap that is on the PvE servers by any chance?</p></blockquote>Nope, its PvP server only, 1.5X your level for AA's.And someone finally responded to one of your posts on the PvP boards <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

IceyGregorio
12-13-2007, 09:51 PM
The way I look at it, every single person has the option of twinking themselves out or not. The real problem imo is that a large majority of these people are too lazy to put out any effort to gear themselves up in terms of aa, gear, totems, etc. They expect it all to be handed to them.I thought RoK gear in TD was a good idea in helping these people. It gave them all out standing gear that really helped them out in pvp. I spent some time with an toon or two locked at lvl 18 and 20 pvping there for a bit, and I was enjoying the hell out of it. No more run up to a toon, click two buttons, bam your dead. A lot of these people were duking it out with me pretty nicely. But I hear soe wants to nerf that gear now for some reason, bah.I feel there is only so much we can do for people that just want to rush to level 80 and don't want to gear themselves, yet whine about dying in pvp. Why nerf pvp for those that are too lazy to gear themselves like they should, seeing these are pvp servers <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> Nor do I care for care for pvp past t4 really, so I see little purpose in me staying in this game as of late, when I won't be able to do that anymore. And no I'm not remaking a toon every time I pass t4...

Pumancat
12-13-2007, 09:53 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>"I expect T2 PvP to thrive now the way it should"</p><p>You are gravely overestimating the ammount of players that are actually on this server.  and the higher tiers will simply dominate and own all the players who leveled up by pvping as.</p><p>a.) they will have hardly any aa's compared to older players before this change</p><p>b.) lack any pvp reward gear to complete.</p><p>Then you'll just all be complaining about the mass twinking and unfariness of high level players as you'll be getting rocked in a couple hits.</p></blockquote><p> They're doing this crap now, so what's the difference?</p><p> Only now, they can't just do it in T2 and lower levels as much. IMO it's the same lame players that PL'd themselves in T8 gearing themselves to be the uber gankers, and dominating the solo under-geared, that have the "god mode" low lvl twinks that have been locked and running off the newbie players.</p><p>As we're finding out the hard way in T8, that twink gear from the tier before is [Removed for Content], so when they think they're gods in one tier, they will now be fairly [Removed for Content] in the next. So BOOHOO, go L2PvP the right way in an even playing field. And thx Sony for finally giving new players a fighting chance.</p><p>Anarcheru - 76 bruiser</p><p>Venekor server</p>

Raidyen
12-13-2007, 10:00 PM
<p>Kind of what responses i thought this would get.</p><p>T8 pvp might be different then what T7 was.  I will be finidng that out very soon.  T8 i guess will be where all the new twinks go.  not exactly sure how thats any different then any other tier, but i guess if it makes a bunch of you happy, fine, lets just twink at T8.  Its unfortunate i have lost the ability to stay within the levels of my friends, but im not going to not pvp on a pvp server, so i guess i will just hit 80 and wait.</p><p>So what are the negatives in cutting the exps earned per pvp kill in half?  Would that a more viable option?</p>

Shangu
12-13-2007, 10:43 PM
<cite>deepruntramp wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote>On 48, XP bar barely moves from killing yellow solo.Tone down even more? Hmm I don't think so.</blockquote>at 53, my friend and i killed a 59 solo.  we each got 1 percent exps for the kill.  Whether you thinks thats to much or not is irrelevant.  There are those of us out there that DO think its to much and its our toons, not yours.  if you want exps fine, turn on your exps, but don't force us into your playing style.</blockquote>Sony chooses which playing styles are available.  Avoiding XP from PvP kills is no longe r available.  Adapt or quit.</blockquote>spoken like a true [Removed for Content].

Yonaton
12-13-2007, 11:12 PM
<p>Yeah,adapt or be smart,and drop this daycare bunch of crap.</p><p>I'm betraying one of my toons over to finalise giving away my stuff to ppl I know weren't involved in this bs. I've been exiled all evening and not hit ONCE. I had a lvl 71 Freep in the Thieves way actually turn straight around and zone back into freeport to avoid me. A token machine and he avoids me,lol.</p><p> I've even hit a few,trying to get a fight. Nothing. they run.</p><p> Yep,adapt dudes. Adapt to pvp being nonexistent unless you're t8!</p><p> Lol...groovy.</p>

Shangu
12-13-2007, 11:25 PM
<cite>Yonaton wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Yeah,adapt or be smart,and drop this daycare bunch of crap.</p><p>I'm betraying one of my toons over to finalise giving away my stuff to ppl I know weren't involved in this bs. I've been exiled all evening and not hit ONCE. I had a lvl 71 Freep in the Thieves way actually turn straight around and zone back into freeport to avoid me. A token machine and he avoids me,lol.</p><p> I've even hit a few,trying to get a fight. Nothing. they run.</p><p> Yep,adapt dudes. Adapt to pvp being nonexistent unless you're t8!</p><p> Lol...groovy.</p></blockquote>Truth

Spyderbite
12-13-2007, 11:41 PM
*chuckles*Now people are making stuff up in order to make it sound like the "end of PvP as we all know it"??I have had numerous fights at T4,5 & 6 today. And, nobody ran away from either of my T2 alts. Good fights there too.Everybody understands how upset some people are over this change. But, come on. What's next.. doctored Fraps videos showing the Freeport guards running away cause they too are scared of leveling? XD

Greenlander
12-14-2007, 12:00 AM
I do like the change I think it will improve pvp--always wanted a game where I could level by killing players not mobs <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />--but it's obvious some other things have to be changed to accommodate the new system.Some have suggested lowering faction, lowering exp gain from pvp (I think this is almost needed after a certain cutoff, say 19 or 29 or whatever), etc.  And these should be looked into.But I haven't seen anyone suggest the one thing that seems to me to be the obvious glaring fix to make the pvp exp play style really soar:  disable quest exp.That way at every tier you can quest for your aa, see all the content, get your char outfitted etc, before pvp'ing to your heart's content for the ten levels it will take you to get to the next tier.  Level-locking for pvp/ganking purposes would still be prevented.  One would still be able to both pvp and develop a character to his fullest for a certain level, and people would be able to choose how much work to put into their toon and it would reflect in their performance.  In every tier you would have a range of characters at different levels of aa and gear and such so we would still have some good even v. even fights, some good advantaged v. disadvantaged fights (who would want to get rid of it entirely?), and the new people coming up would always have a sort of hard knock introduction/motivation to improve themselves (I don't think T2 locking was a good manifestation of this, but I wasn't complaining about it either).  Anyway quest locking seems like a win/win situation to me, what do you guys think?Some of the people complaining about this switch have pointed out that if you pvp you will miss content and miss out on developing your toon, and that is certainly true at this point.  I assume there will be more changes coming down shortly to affect some of the issues brought up by pvp exp, and I'm not too worried about I'm sure SOE is already mulling things over.  But to me no quest exp seems like a good compliment to pvp exp.  Sorry if this was posted in another thread but I didn't see it so I thought I would throw it out there.

Sidhartha
12-14-2007, 12:05 AM
<p>I mean seriously.  I log in and go out into Norrath and I see an enemy player...here is my thought process: "If I kill this guy I will get a ton of XP and no aa and this will make my character weaker.  I will just ignore him...but then he attacks me but I don't want to kill him because that will mean that he got the better of me by making my character permanently weaker so I have the choice to either stand there and let him kill me or run away."  A world where you have "opposing" sides but nobody really wants to kill anybody.  Wow...was this the single stupidest move in the history of online gaming or what people.  This actually makes less sense than committing suicide 100 times in a row to get xp debt.  Dying is advantageous but killing your enemy is even worse.  PVP servers are no longer PVP but they aren't PVE either...what are they?  Treasured gear is better than fabled gear, MC gear is better than Fabled or Legendary and PVP gear is still in the game but it's so terrible that nobody would ever want it but that's irrelevant because it's 100% impossible to get anyway.  What is going on over at SOE these days.  Did someone from another online game pay them to sabotage their own game because that's what it seems like to me.  This is the first (and probably the last) SOE game I've played but apparently they do the same thing to all of their games...I just don't get it. </p>

convict
12-14-2007, 12:16 AM
<cite>Darman81 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Obviously, I am not a 48 so maybe your correct!</p><p>But on my level 20 thats what i got. Even tested it again on a <b><span style="color: #ff3300;">solo green and netted 6%!</span></b></p><p>I then logged into my 38 and netted less than 1% for a green conned kill in EL. [8 level zone]</p><p>Ok, I can live with that but my point is the xp gain for low tier xp is way to high!</p><p>Hopefully SOE will tweak this so I can atleast enjoy my 20's a little longer!</p><p>I </p></blockquote>I find that hard to believe.. Just killed a yellow, I was level 15 with vitality and got 4%. I was at 95%, killed him, I was at 99%. The xp seems to be where it needs to be..

seahawk
12-14-2007, 12:18 AM
<p>I know you are trying to be positive but I guess I am just punch drunk with all the threads with the change that just occured, so don't take this personally.</p><p>How about this.. <b><i>no disabling period</i></b>.  Just play the game and choose which quest lines, zones you want to explore.  Getting max AA at level cap is not a problem, you <b><i>DON'T HAVE TO LOCK</i></b> to get max at AA.</p><p>If you missed some quest lines on the way up, and you make a new toon.. then go a different route the next time.</p><p>anyway, I am a bit tired and I hope you don't take what I said as a flame.. </p>

Spyderbite
12-14-2007, 12:20 AM
Hey everyone! Look!! Its another one of "those" threads! And, from somebody brand new to the forums to boot. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I PvP'd for most of the day today.. didn't hesitate once to attack anyone nor did anyone run past me. Must be a locker thing. /shrugs

Greenlander
12-14-2007, 12:27 AM
I would be game for no disabling too.  But I don't think it is possible to get max aa while pvp'ing alot, well maybe when approaching the higher tiers, but not at lower ones.   And I mean just if I want to quest one day, tradeskill on day too, and pvp on day 3, it seems I will quickly level past my aa's now with the exp.  I could be wrong, and I will go try it out to find out (have been raising my tradeskills the last couple days so I'm not sure exactly how it will work out with pvp exp v. my aa exp yet).Of course, the devs might intend for us to have fewer aa's than I want, and the current caps are misleading.  If that's the intention...to just have aa's come slower and later, so be it, I'd be fine with that too.  I'll adapt to the play style that's offered....and try to get as many aa's as I can while still pvp'ing as much as I want and then not worry too much about the results.  But I am the type who would prefer to get all the aa's and do all the quests for any level before passing it.  And if pvp'ing way past your aa's isn't something the devs intended, I thought quest exp might be something to look at.  But then again it might not be the best idea, idk, was just looking for some feedback.  Either way, I like the game, so no big deal.ps. didn't take your thread as a flame, thanks for the response....anyone in t8 telling me that you don't need to lock to get max aa's is only good news

seahawk
12-14-2007, 12:31 AM
<p>Sigh.. come on mate.. you really had to start another thread on this?</p>

seahawk
12-14-2007, 12:43 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>I would be game for no disabling too.  But I don't think it is possible to get max aa while pvp'ing alot, well maybe when approaching the higher tiers, but not at lower ones.   And I mean just if I want to quest one day, tradeskill on day too, and pvp on day 3, it seems I will quickly level past my aa's now with the exp.  I could be wrong, and I will go try it out to find out (have been raising my tradeskills the last couple days so I'm not sure exactly how it will work out with pvp exp v. my aa exp yet).Of course, the devs might intend for us to have fewer aa's than I want, and the current caps are misleading.  If that's the intention...to just have aa's come slower and later, so be it, I'd be fine with that too.  I'll adapt to the play style that's offered....and try to get as many aa's as I can while still pvp'ing as much as I want and then not worry too much about the results.  But I am the type who would prefer to get all the aa's and do all the quests for any level before passing it.  And if pvp'ing way past your aa's isn't something the devs intended, I thought quest exp might be something to look at.  But then again it might not be the best idea, idk, was just looking for some feedback.  Either way, I like the game, so no big deal.ps. didn't take your thread as a flame, thanks for the response....anyone in t8 telling me that you don't need to lock to get max aa's is only good news </blockquote><p>Seems like the combining of threads have made a mess of this.. anyways....</p><p>Tks Greenlander and best wishes.. a healthy dose of questing and Pvp'ing is all you need.. no locking. .just enjoy!</p>

StrollingWolf
12-14-2007, 12:58 AM
<p>Just a note, all of the upteen billion threads that were started on the subject of PvP XP from the time I was last on this board till now are now merged with this one.</p><p>Do not continue to start your own thread on the subject that there are already numerous threads on. Continue to discuss the PvP XP changes here. Your feedback is greatly appreciated as long as you're not filling up the PvP Discussion board with the same topic over and over.</p><p>Thanks.</p>

Wraithstalker
12-14-2007, 01:18 AM
<cite>StrollingWolf wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Just a note, all of the upteen billion threads that were started on the subject of PvP XP from the time I was last on this board till now are now merged with this one.</p><p>Do not continue to start your own thread on the subject that there are already numerous threads on. Continue to discuss the PvP XP changes here. Your feedback is greatly appreciated as long as you're not filling up the PvP Discussion board with the same topic over and over.</p><p>Thanks.</p></blockquote>Bit of a shame that, as I've noticed some of the merged topics have quite specific titles that differentiate themselves from this one in content and approach. I sincerely hope this feedback is being read and digested, and that eventully someone will come out of hiding and address the customers not happy with this change to their playstyle after embracing the old system for better or worse.

Ze
12-14-2007, 02:45 AM
<p>I have two suggestions:</p><p>1) For SOE: get rid of level limits. So people can lock and quest at the desired range to experience content, but they will not be gods in pvp. The problem, right now, is that AAs, not levels, determine your strength in pvp. I believe level ranges were the sort of all evil to start with. Levels are everything, in an MMORPG. Why change that?</p><p>2) For the level lockers - why don't you play in T2 and, once you outlevel it, reroll? You can stay in T2 forever, try new classes, see new starting areas... I mean, the sky is not falling, you can replay the same content with different chars, if you so much like T2. </p>

Ze
12-14-2007, 02:46 AM
<cite>Wraithstalker wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>StrollingWolf wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Just a note, all of the upteen billion threads that were started on the subject of PvP XP from the time I was last on this board till now are now merged with this one.</p><p>Do not continue to start your own thread on the subject that there are already numerous threads on. Continue to discuss the PvP XP changes here. Your feedback is greatly appreciated as long as you're not filling up the PvP Discussion board with the same topic over and over.</p><p>Thanks.</p></blockquote>Bit of a shame that, as I've noticed some of the merged topics have quite specific titles that differentiate themselves from this one in content and approach. I sincerely hope this feedback is being read and digested, and that eventully someone will come out of hiding and address the customers not happy with this change to their playstyle after embracing the old system for better or worse.</blockquote>I was just noticing the same - this thread is unreadable now...

Korvoth
12-14-2007, 11:17 AM
My girlfriend and I started new toons this week and are now coming up on level 20 with combat exp locked so we can gain AA's. We not particularly interested in level locking but we both enjoy PVP. I've played a lot before the update and TD use to flourish with PVP. Now, coming up on 20, we havn't even seen a single PVP fight. We ran across a few players but they ran, and I know why. The experience given is too much. I think all this update has done now is made PVP a rare thing, and I really don’t even understand that considering SOE should be trying to implement things to promote PVP, not the opposite. I was never a huge fan of level locking but I didn't care of others did it. I was a new player only few months ago and when I was killed within 45 seconds of dinging level 10 and getting one shotted I hopped on the forums to find out why. I then farmed rares, made my own spells and armor and turned combat exp off. I was able to compete with people within a week after just reading in the forums for 30 min. I still couldn't beat toons decked in fabled gear but there weren’t that many of them out there. It never turned me from the game, it made me want fight back and if anything motivated me because I don't like losing. Anyone who quits before learning what they should be doing should have played on a different server at the start, or know how to get information on what to do. Pvp is not hard and its not hard at all to get geared up for it. Now the game seems boring and its only a few days after the update. TD seemed empty, DLW seems empty, Commonlands was empty of PVP. Either the people that threatened to quit really did quit or no one is really looking to pvp. In my own opinion, I think the update was absolutely lazy and should have been tested or something. Its effects are already taking there toll. I'm sure theres still pvp going on. But its nothing like it was a week ago. I loved doing a quest and constantly looking over my shoulder to see if a scout or group was ready to attack me. It added a challenge I liked to the game and open PVP is what eq2 was about. I loved trade-skilling and keeping my guy wearing the best armor and best spells each level, I like taking it slow. I always made it a point to try and get 35 kills or so per level so I could get pvp armor at 20. On my new toon, I can forget that, I have ZERO kills. I don't see the point in making adept III's and making armor at least at low level tiers because now you just plow through those tiers now and it’s a waste. I loved doing that each level. I would post some of my own thoughts and ideas like MANY others have done but I don't see why it would matter because it looks as if SOE doesn't read or care. I never really took one side or another but I believe changing the game like this has hurt both sides. I'm going to continue to play although I hope its not this dull on the way to 80…. I don’t want to go through the game like this. 80 might be where all the action is but whats the point if the road there is boring?

Unis_Bertox
12-14-2007, 11:33 AM
Yep, pvp is dead now. Thanks, SOE.It's very sad because after being frustrated by WoW I started a few peeps on AB. After playing PvE for a while I knew I was missing something and that's when I created a few toons on Nagafen. Got my [Removed for Content] kicked but then RoK came out and once I got my toons geared up allowing me to compete and I was having a blast. EQ2 PvP was the most fun I've had PvPing since pre-ToA DAoC.I see no reason to play on Nagafen anymore, nobody wants to pvp with these changes. ToA ruined DAoC and this patch is going to kill EQ2 pvp if they don't remove it. ToA was an expansion and there was no going back but this can be fixed. Please, SOE, please review this this and remove it. There are better ways to deal with the situation.

Mutant
12-14-2007, 11:55 AM
<p>- PVP went to frostfell village.- T2 pvp simmered down (but there are like 60 more levels of pvp out there)- Ohnoes new players in a beginner zone can actually learn things and play the game in those zones without being slaughtered by unbalanced easy mode twinks.- The level locks created a horrible choke-hold in pvp so that all the action was in T2 or at the end, a pvp server should not be like that.- This change should eventually spread pvp across all tiers the way it should be, so it will be fun all the way up, how ever much you wish to level.</p><p>PVP is not dead, just the easymode sandbox pvp is.</p>

Darman81
12-14-2007, 12:08 PM
<p>I am sorry to tell you that you are correct!</p><p>The update, like it or not , killed almost all t2 - t3 pvp!</p><p>NOBODY can honestly say there hasn't been a severe negative impact on how much PVP is taking place at lower tiers!</p><p>I found a little at T4 last night, but I was playing cat and mouse with the same two guys over and over!</p><p>What this will do to the average new player is make them think that PVP is dead!</p><p>Even the ganksquads are better than nothing!</p>

Nyven
12-14-2007, 12:28 PM
Nah t4 pvp is close to gone too.  There wasn't a ton to begin with in this level range, but the past day or two there's been very little at all.  I ran around a bit just to see and found places like EL docks to be much more empty than usual.  I know of several people who avoid pvp like the plague now, and I haven't really even bothered to play much since the change let alone seek out pvp.  There's just not much incentive to bother with pvp at this moment and in this level range.  The best fights I ever got in t4 were with other lockers and that seems to be gone now.

Liunatic
12-14-2007, 12:34 PM
Funny, I logged onto my 32 brig and found pvp just fine. And it found me as well. Just didnt see all the normal DLW Chaos.

Bloodfa
12-14-2007, 12:40 PM
See what it is in a month.  Judge it then, not now.  There's apparently quite a bit of action in the Frostfell instance, so if you want some PvP, guess where it is.  One guildy was laughing his [Removed for Content] off because a raid, a full x's 4 of freeps, attacked him.  Except they were low 20's attacking a 74.  <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />  Surprise, a 74 doesn't drop like a 55 does in those circumstances.  After 5 minutes of standing there and ignoring them, he started swatting them.  Anyway, PvP's there, just not where you'd expect it to be, just like it was last year.  It'll go back to the usual scenario in a couple of weeks.  There were plenty of lowbies around town, but I guess they were too busy griping about the change to head out and actually PvP.  Also noticed a lot of tradeskilling going on, perhaps making coin on the recently levelled?  I know a few people suddenly making a lot of money on T3 Adept III's.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Spyderbite
12-14-2007, 12:47 PM
<cite>Darman81 wrote:</cite><blockquote>NOBODY can honestly say there hasn't been a severe negative impact on how much PVP is taking place at lower tiers!</blockquote>I can. I had no problem finding fights yesterday in most T2 & T3 zones. Only thing different was that the newbs around us were able to harvest and run about doing quests for the most part unmolested.Now if you had said the following, I might have agreed with you.<i>"NOBODY can honestly say there hasn't been a severe negative impact on how much <b>griefing</b> is taking place at lower tiers!"</i>

Spyderbite
12-14-2007, 12:49 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>I know a few people suddenly making a lot of money on T3 Adept III's.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /></blockquote>Curses! You've foiled my plan! XDI must say though.. my T3 & T4 potions and poisons are flying off the shelf recently. Must be all those people who are quitting that are buying souvenirs on their way through the gift shop. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Psych
12-14-2007, 12:54 PM
Yeah please tell me where the dead PVP server is because even when I make a new toon on venekor while its the second lightest server on list I am getting ganked by orange con twinks in the graveyard and sunken city as well as FP sewers.Quit making crap up alright SOE has computers and techno-logy. they can see the exact number of pvp fights taking place in each zone each day if they like. they arent gonna say "OH NO BILL POSTED ON FORUM SAID PVP IS DEAD AND HE CANT FIND FIGHTS WE FAILED AS DEVS!" lolThey know its whining.We know its whining.You know its whining.please get together collectively and atleast stop spamming forum with the same sob story

Darman81
12-14-2007, 01:08 PM
<p>spyderbite and Psych,</p><p>I guess Ill roll on venekor atleast the three of us can take turns killing each other!</p><p>LOL!</p><p>All joking aside, I have one slot left so why not!</p><p>Venekor beware Im on my way!</p>

Darman81
12-14-2007, 01:11 PM
<p>I know your gonna say,"great now he can cry about venekor."</p><p><img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

Psych
12-14-2007, 01:15 PM
welcome. my coercer is nearly 40 but I've suddenly got alt fever. look for a newb in newb zones. ITS ME!!

Spyderbite
12-14-2007, 01:19 PM
<cite>Darman81 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Venekor beware Im on my way!</p></blockquote>Woot!/whispersBut hey.. I'd check under your car for anything suspicious. We can't guarantee your safety if you testify against them you know. /nods

Korvoth
12-14-2007, 01:45 PM
<cite>Psych wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yeah please tell me where the dead PVP server is because even when I make a new toon on venekor while its the second lightest server on list I am getting ganked by orange con twinks in the graveyard and sunken city as well as FP sewers.Quit making crap up alright SOE has computers and techno-logy. they can see the exact number of pvp fights taking place in each zone each day if they like. they arent gonna say "OH NO BILL POSTED ON FORUM SAID PVP IS DEAD AND HE CANT FIND FIGHTS WE FAILED AS DEVS!" lolThey know its whining.We know its whining.You know its whining.please get together collectively and atleast stop spamming forum with the same sob story</blockquote><p>read your own post there sport!  Whos whining again?  oh,  the poor little guy getting ganked by orange con twinks in the graveyard and suken city?   Thats the sob story im reading!   I'm not making up anything.   I merely stating my experience since the update.  As someone else stated,  the pvp seems to be at frostfell villiage which explains some things.    I know FOR A FACT that i havn't had a single PVP encounter since i started the new toon and traveled around in TD, DLW and CL.    So if you want to make a character where your not getting ganked every second. (exaggerate much?) then please come to Naggy and goto the zones I mentioned.  There is hardly anyone there and hasn't been for 2 days.  Same for DLW and Commonlands unless your Spyderbite whom never has anything happen to him that happens to the rest of the majority.</p><p>You really think SOE takes the time to caculate how many PVP encounters are happening now?  Not likely,  they can't even take the time to test a game changing update regardless of its intentions.  There wouldn't be player after player posting whats going on if everything is hunky-dory!  ya think??</p>

Pyra Shineflame
12-14-2007, 01:52 PM
<cite>Korvoth wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Psych wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yeah please tell me where the dead PVP server is because even when I make a new toon on venekor while its the second lightest server on list I am getting ganked by orange con twinks in the graveyard and sunken city as well as FP sewers.Quit making crap up alright SOE has computers and techno-logy. they can see the exact number of pvp fights taking place in each zone each day if they like. they arent gonna say "OH NO BILL POSTED ON FORUM SAID PVP IS DEAD AND HE CANT FIND FIGHTS WE FAILED AS DEVS!" lolThey know its whining.We know its whining.You know its whining.please get together collectively and atleast stop spamming forum with the same sob story</blockquote><p>read your own post there sport!  Whos whining again?  oh,  the poor little guy getting ganked by orange con twinks in the graveyard and suken city?   Thats the sob story im reading!   I'm not making up anything.   I merely stating my experience since the update.  As someone else stated,  the pvp seems to be at frostfell villiage which explains some things.    I know FOR A FACT that i havn't had a single PVP encounter since i started the new toon and traveled around in TD, DLW and CL.    So if you want to make a character where your not getting ganked every second. (exaggerate much?) then please come to Naggy and goto the zones I mentioned.  There is hardly anyone there and hasn't been for 2 days.  Same for DLW and Commonlands unless your Spyderbite whom never has anything happen to him that happens to the rest of the majority.</p><p>You really think SOE takes the time to caculate how many PVP encounters are happening now?  Not likely,  they can't even take the time to test a game changing update regardless of its intentions.  There wouldn't be player after player posting whats going on if everything is hunky-dory!  ya think??</p></blockquote><p>He wasn't whining about it, just saying that there is still pvp, despite claims otherwise. </p><p>Also the times you play (and yea, Frostfell) might affect what you are seeing. As it is, posting about dead pvp in a month is more viable than after a couple of days. </p><p>And why yes, I think they would calculate the pvp encounters, they would be losing money otherwise and no one likes that. Children whine but we don't assume the parents are bad or are not doing their job...its the same. Players are not developers and are subject to their own preferences.Taking one player's or a group's opinions and letting that dictate the development is not good business sense.</p>

Killque
12-14-2007, 01:56 PM
<cite>Korvoth wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Psych wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yeah please tell me where the dead PVP server is because even when I make a new toon on venekor while its the second lightest server on list I am getting ganked by orange con twinks in the graveyard and sunken city as well as FP sewers.Quit making crap up alright SOE has computers and techno-logy. they can see the exact number of pvp fights taking place in each zone each day if they like. they arent gonna say "OH NO BILL POSTED ON FORUM SAID PVP IS DEAD AND HE CANT FIND FIGHTS WE FAILED AS DEVS!" lolThey know its whining.We know its whining.You know its whining.please get together collectively and atleast stop spamming forum with the same sob story</blockquote><p>read your own post there sport!  Whos whining again?  oh,  the poor little guy getting ganked by orange con twinks in the graveyard and suken city?   Thats the sob story im reading!   I'm not making up anything.   I merely stating my experience since the update.  As someone else stated,  the pvp seems to be at frostfell villiage which explains some things.    I know FOR A FACT that i havn't had a single PVP encounter since i started the new toon and traveled around in TD, DLW and CL.    So if you want to make a character where your not getting ganked every second. (exaggerate much?) then please come to Naggy and goto the zones I mentioned.  There is hardly anyone there and hasn't been for 2 days.  Same for DLW and Commonlands unless your Spyderbite whom never has anything happen to him that happens to the rest of the majority.</p><p>You really think SOE takes the time to caculate how many PVP encounters are happening now?  Not likely,  they can't even take the time to test a game changing update regardless of its intentions.  There wouldn't be player after player posting whats going on if everything is hunky-dory!  ya think??</p></blockquote><p>To add, if SoE cant even send out a game wide message that the server is coming down for an update, provide easily accessible and accurate server status information or even format their update text in a ledgeable way, what makes you think they are tracking anything pvp related?</p>

rvbarton
12-14-2007, 01:58 PM
<p>I like PVP the way it is now.  This is how I think it should be.  No more gank squads roaming with no regard to the game, but having the only mission of griefing as much as possible.  </p><p>Now we can all enjoy the game!  Part of that game on a PVP server is the ability to fight back against other player characters, without having to have them accept a duel.  If anyone crosses you on a PVP server, you can fight them, or you can choose to continue and let it go.  No more of the stuff that has gone on for so long, that ruined PVP.  </p><p>It's the game that is enjoyable, so now you can enjoy the game!  Too many people became to involved with using PVP to make the game unenjoyable for others.</p><p>Thank you DEVS!  I'd send you some warm eggnog and christmas spirits if possible for this!</p>

Raidyen
12-14-2007, 02:30 PM
<p>Some of these posts i just have to shake my head and laugh.  It is impossible to try to bring logic into this discussion.  They don't want to hear it.  In the words of the population that think this change is the greatest thing since Kfed and Brittany broke up, Adapt or quit.  Ill see you all at 60, if you ever actaully make it that high.</p>

Bluetygur
12-14-2007, 02:37 PM
<p><span style="font-size: x-small;font-family: verdana,geneva;">PvP is just fine on VOX, as good as it ever was considering that VOX has a lower population than the other pvp servers.  The amount of pvp seems about right to me, although obviously YMMV <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span></p>

Marcula
12-14-2007, 03:02 PM
<span style="color: #00ccff;">There is tons of PvP and I will definately say you are full of [Removed for Content] with your whine about no PvP to be had anywhere, roaming aimlessly for hours killing the same person because there is only two people playing the game. Grow up........and for [Removed for Content] sake stop with the crying already.</span>

Skywarrior
12-14-2007, 03:02 PM
<cite>Wraithstalker wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Skywarrior wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Everquest 2, like most MMORPGs, is a PvE game.  It has had PvP features added to it to help accomodate the play desires of certain players and that is a good thing.  But those players do need to remember that EQ2 is a PvE game with PvP features, not the other way around.  </p><p>There is a certain subset of the PvP players in EQ2 who found a way, via legitimate game mechanics of the time, to essentially turn one specific level tier into a fantasy version of Counterstrike, complete with a target rich environment of easily defeated "trash content".  Unfortunately for them, the "trash content" were other real life players, many of whom simply wanted to play a PvE game with PvP features, as designed, and not a fantasy version of Counterstrike.</p><p>So, the developers decided that, since the game was indeed an RPG, intended and marketed to be played as an RPG with PvE as the focus and PvP as an additional feature, maybe they should do something to break the logjam that the Counterstrike culture was causing.  The fix, while controversial to many, will most certainly shake up the logjam.  It remains to be seen, of course, if it is a satisfactory permanent solution.</p><p>I do find it amusing that the loudest complainers berate the people they believe to have caused the fix to occur for not taking the steps to be competitive in the T2 environment, and yet refuse to even consider doing what will be necessary to be competitive as they now start to level - and that is play the PvE game they actually bought instead of the Counterstrike game they prefer.</p></blockquote><p>..and with similar thoughts in mind, these same poor people could actually play on a PvE server where there is no PvP. Your argument doesn't hold water, sorry.</p><p>There are much better solution that to make levelling mandatory. People who accept this are pretty much selling out and saying 'Yeah we are happy that to fix PvP, you can just go ahead and make a one line change to the code'. For the want of a better more sophisticated game all round that appeases the needs of the majority, we need to push for more than this. It's not a satisfactory permanent solution as this is just going to expose more people to look to negate the effects to make them more powerful. Constant work is needed to ensure that PvP remains a fun and engaging part of the EQ2 universe. SOE was very clear about how they marketed PvP when it was released, and in no way did they stress it was a PvE game with limited PvP.</p></blockquote><p>Well, yes they could indeed play on a PvE server but then they would not have access to the PvP feature that has been added for their enjoyment, now would they?  Or was PvP just added to the game for your enjoyment only perhaps, and not others who might also enjoy the PvE aspects of the game in addition to the PvP feature?  The problem is, you have no such similar thoughts because your thoughts are right now so clouded with irrational anger that you really don't care for rational discussion.</p><p>The point being that EQ2, whatever you might wish it to be, is NOT a PvP game.  Deal with it.  Be tough.  Do what you have to do to compete and be successful, as you (and/or other self-styled hardcore types) repeatedly tell the newbs trying to learn the game.  Except in this case the shoe is on the other foot, isn't it?  Too bad, so sad.</p><p>And please do provide links, box art, ads, anything, that show where EQ2 was ever marketed as a PvP game.  I would be interested to see this.  Seriously.</p>

Raidyen
12-14-2007, 03:12 PM
<p>Another set of threads killed.</p><p>Im just curious, is there some kind of thread limit the boards can have?  I mean this is an issue the population wants to talk about, yet they keep locking and merging threads.  I don't think a half a dozen threads talking about an issue that effects everyone that plays pvp is to much to ask.  Its not like its the same person starting all these threads.  These are all different people with different opinions and idea's, and for the most part each thread is somewhat unique.</p>

ckl
12-14-2007, 03:14 PM
<p>I don't know but I'm definitely PVPing on either of my characters until either PVP XP is removed or reduced to a fraction of what it currently is.</p><p>I had every intention of leveling my swashbuckler and dirge up with the changes. I've bought just about every master each character needs for the next 15 levels. Seeing how much XP people are getting is a slap in the face and makes all of that useless. I could have saved 10-15 plat by buying rares for adept 3s and making them with my jeweler, since there's no way I'd be in any certain tier for very long. </p><p>It really amazes me how far they missed on this change. The problem wasn't the gear discrepancy between level lockers and newer players, it was that a few of us would repeatedly kill the same person. In that case some of the fault lies with the new player for allowing that to happen to himself, but most of it lies with the griefer. If the newer players can't handle dying a few times and going somewhere else at this stage, good luck to them once they get higher level. The gear difference in T2 is easily bypassed by harvesting and making mastercrafted armor (won't even get into the RoK gear, but that's an option, too), by leveling out of the tier, or by grouping to complete the desired content.</p><p>As it stands my account is cancelled and set to expire on the 18th. I really hope they remove PVP XP and figure out some other way to combat the griefing, because there <i>are</i> better options available. I'll list a few, hoping that a few people can read them before this post is likely deleted:</p><p>1. Some sort of "new player" system to prevent characters, or characters on an account, less than a week old from being attacked in PVP combat. Not my favorite, but a system similar to this was employed by UO to help new players get accustomed to the game.</p><p>2. I've suggested a few times to place a temporary "full" carnage flag on anyone who kills someone on their recent list. The full part means the player can be attacked by anyone of any faction, even his own. Obviously would have to be tweaked so that if the person is attacked by someone on his recent list, he can kill that person without being carnage flagged. This would promote PVP and discourage griefing: if the player who was killed decides to take another crack at the person who just killed him, he's every right to, and the other person won't be penalized. This is my favorite option, and one I really hope someone, somewhere reads, and with an open mind, too, despite my sometimes brash attituded and ad hominem attacks on others.</p><p>Either of those would be far better than penalizing people who enjoy fulfilling their character's full potential for PVPing, because as it stands, being forced to gain XP for a particular playstyle really isn't fair if there's no AA gain to go along with it.</p>

ckl
12-14-2007, 03:16 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Another set of threads killed.</p><p>Im just curious, is there some kind of thread limit the boards can have?  I mean this is an issue the population wants to talk about, yet they keep locking and merging threads.  I don't think a half a dozen threads talking about an issue that effects everyone that plays pvp is to much to ask.  Its not like its the same person starting all these threads.  These are all different people with different opinions and idea's, and for the most part each thread is somewhat unique.</p></blockquote>Not to mention the thread they ninja deleted that was asking who wasn't PVPing at all to see if the XP would be reduced.

ckl
12-14-2007, 03:18 PM
<cite>Skywarrior wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wraithstalker wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Skywarrior wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Everquest 2, like most MMORPGs, is a PvE game.  It has had PvP features added to it to help accomodate the play desires of certain players and that is a good thing.  But those players do need to remember that EQ2 is a PvE game with PvP features, not the other way around.  </p><p>There is a certain subset of the PvP players in EQ2 who found a way, via legitimate game mechanics of the time, to essentially turn one specific level tier into a fantasy version of Counterstrike, complete with a target rich environment of easily defeated "trash content".  Unfortunately for them, the "trash content" were other real life players, many of whom simply wanted to play a PvE game with PvP features, as designed, and not a fantasy version of Counterstrike.</p><p>So, the developers decided that, since the game was indeed an RPG, intended and marketed to be played as an RPG with PvE as the focus and PvP as an additional feature, maybe they should do something to break the logjam that the Counterstrike culture was causing.  The fix, while controversial to many, will most certainly shake up the logjam.  It remains to be seen, of course, if it is a satisfactory permanent solution.</p><p>I do find it amusing that the loudest complainers berate the people they believe to have caused the fix to occur for not taking the steps to be competitive in the T2 environment, and yet refuse to even consider doing what will be necessary to be competitive as they now start to level - and that is play the PvE game they actually bought instead of the Counterstrike game they prefer.</p></blockquote><p>..and with similar thoughts in mind, these same poor people could actually play on a PvE server where there is no PvP. Your argument doesn't hold water, sorry.</p><p>There are much better solution that to make levelling mandatory. People who accept this are pretty much selling out and saying 'Yeah we are happy that to fix PvP, you can just go ahead and make a one line change to the code'. For the want of a better more sophisticated game all round that appeases the needs of the majority, we need to push for more than this. It's not a satisfactory permanent solution as this is just going to expose more people to look to negate the effects to make them more powerful. Constant work is needed to ensure that PvP remains a fun and engaging part of the EQ2 universe. SOE was very clear about how they marketed PvP when it was released, and in no way did they stress it was a PvE game with limited PvP.</p></blockquote><p><b>Well, yes they could indeed play on a PvE server but then they would not have access to the PvP feature that has been added for their enjoyment, now would they?</b>  Or was PvP just added to the game for your enjoyment only perhaps, and not others who might also enjoy the PvE aspects of the game in addition to the PvP feature?  The problem is, you have no such similar thoughts because your thoughts are right now so clouded with irrational anger that you really don't care for rational discussion.</p><p>The point being that EQ2, whatever you might wish it to be, is NOT a PvP game.  Deal with it.  Be tough.  Do what you have to do to compete and be successful, as you (and/or other self-styled hardcore types) repeatedly tell the newbs trying to learn the game.  Except in this case the shoe is on the other foot, isn't it?  Too bad, so sad.</p><p>And please do provide links, box art, ads, anything, that show where EQ2 was ever marketed as a PvP game.  I would be interested to see this.  Seriously.</p></blockquote><p>Yes, they could. There is dueling and arena play on PVE servers. </p><p>Penalizing players on a PVP server for PVPing makes very little sense. The same goes for forcing them to level up against their will for actively PVPing. People who play PVE can bypass most, if not all, adventure XP if they truly wanted. The same can't be said now for PVP players.</p><p>And to your last line: The moment Nagafen and the other PVP servers were created.</p>

Wraithstalker
12-14-2007, 03:27 PM
<cite>cklab wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Another set of threads killed.</p><p>Im just curious, is there some kind of thread limit the boards can have?  I mean this is an issue the population wants to talk about, yet they keep locking and merging threads.  I don't think a half a dozen threads talking about an issue that effects everyone that plays pvp is to much to ask.  Its not like its the same person starting all these threads.  These are all different people with different opinions and idea's, and for the most part each thread is somewhat unique.</p></blockquote>Not to mention the thread they ninja deleted that was asking who wasn't PVPing at all to see if the XP would be reduced. </blockquote><p>That was my thread, and I received a very good explanation why it was removed, so I'm not too concerned. I think the overriding factor here is to communicate on the existing threads as I believe each word is being poured over in detail, and if any action is taken, it's as a result of wanting to make the players happier. Developers are not out to make people unhappy, they want happy players, so tell them what would make you happy, tell them what you really want, and then judge the effectiveness of your feedback on what occurs in the coming weeks. PvP players are a tough crowd (rightly so!), so they know whatever they do it has to be spot on. The depth of feeling here demonstrates EQ2 success as an engaging and worthwhile MMO PVP experience, I just wish they could extend the experience a lot more with more resource available for this development.</p><p>I have no problem outlining my thoughts that the change was ill considered and rushed and now is causing problems, and i have also given feedback as to how changes would make me personally feel a bit happier. It's wait and see time I think, and I also believe that the message is out there, it's up to SOE as an organization to impress us all.</p><p>I could direct anyone to EQ2flames for specific discussion on very focused aspects of the PVP changes, but given it's a business and they want to look good on their own forums, you can't really blame anyone for limiting the impression and extent of the feedback because there are so many diverse threads swamping all other discussion, when fundamentally they are about the same thing. I'm a firm believer that well written and directed feedback can hit the 'powers who be' for six, and it's quality rather than quantity that will encourage actions based on feedback here.</p><p>I'm sorry that some of the threads have been removed, as I know it's nice to put your point out there. I am reading each additional post and have an almost encyclopedic knowledge of what people think now <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> So keep posting on the thread as Friday is notoriously slow here, and I'm lloking to bridge these last 5 hours into the weekend!</p>

ckl
12-14-2007, 03:35 PM
<cite>Wraithstalker wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>cklab wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Another set of threads killed.</p><p>Im just curious, is there some kind of thread limit the boards can have?  I mean this is an issue the population wants to talk about, yet they keep locking and merging threads.  I don't think a half a dozen threads talking about an issue that effects everyone that plays pvp is to much to ask.  Its not like its the same person starting all these threads.  These are all different people with different opinions and idea's, and for the most part each thread is somewhat unique.</p></blockquote>Not to mention the thread they ninja deleted that was asking who wasn't PVPing at all to see if the XP would be reduced. </blockquote><p><b>That was my thread, and I received a very good explanation why it was removed,</b> so I'm not too concerned. I think the overriding factor here is to communicate on the existing threads as I believe each word is being poured over in detail, and if any action is taken, it's as a result of wanting to make the players happier. Developers are not out to make people unhappy, they want happy players, so tell them what would make you happy, tell them what you really want, and then judge the effectiveness of your feedback on what occurs in the coming weeks. PvP players are a tough crowd (rightly so!), so they know whatever they do it has to be spot on. The depth of feeling here demonstrates EQ2 success as an engaging and worthwhile MMO PVP experience, I just wish they could extend the experience a lot more with more resource available for this development.</p><p>I have no problem outlining my thoughts that the change was ill considered and rushed and now is causing problems, and i have also given feedback as to how changes would make me personally feel a bit happier. It's wait and see time I think, and I also believe that the message is out there, it's up to SOE as an organization to impress us all.</p><p>I could direct anyone to EQ2flames for specific discussion on very focused aspects of the PVP changes, but given it's a business and they want to look good on their own forums, you can't really blame anyone for limiting the impression and extent of the feedback because there are so many diverse threads swamping all other discussion, when fundamentally they are about the same thing. I'm a firm believer that well written and directed feedback can hit the 'powers who be' for six, and it's quality rather than quantity that will encourage actions based on feedback here.</p><p>I'm sorry that some of the threads have been removed, as I know it's nice to put your point out there. I am reading each additional post and have an almost encyclopedic knowledge of what people think now <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /> So keep posting on the thread as Friday is notoriously slow here, and I'm lloking to bridge these last 5 hours into the weekend!</p></blockquote>Ah. Fair play, then.

Wraithstalker
12-14-2007, 03:40 PM
<cite>cklab wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wraithstalker wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>cklab wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Another set of threads killed.</p><p>Im just curious, is there some kind of thread limit the boards can have?  I mean this is an issue the population wants to talk about, yet they keep locking and merging threads.  I don't think a half a dozen threads talking about an issue that effects everyone that plays pvp is to much to ask.  Its not like its the same person starting all these threads.  These are all different people with different opinions and idea's, and for the most part each thread is somewhat unique.</p></blockquote>Not to mention the thread they ninja deleted that was asking who wasn't PVPing at all to see if the XP would be reduced. </blockquote><p><b>That was my thread, and I received a very good explanation why it was removed,</b> so I'm not too concerned. I think the overriding factor here is to communicate on the existing threads as I believe each word is being poured over in detail, and if any action is taken, it's as a result of wanting to make the players happier. Developers are not out to make people unhappy, they want happy players, so tell them what would make you happy, tell them what you really want, and then judge the effectiveness of your feedback on what occurs in the coming weeks. PvP players are a tough crowd (rightly so!), so they know whatever they do it has to be spot on. The depth of feeling here demonstrates EQ2 success as an engaging and worthwhile MMO PVP experience, I just wish they could extend the experience a lot more with more resource available for this development.</p><p>I have no problem outlining my thoughts that the change was ill considered and rushed and now is causing problems, and i have also given feedback as to how changes would make me personally feel a bit happier. It's wait and see time I think, and I also believe that the message is out there, it's up to SOE as an organization to impress us all.</p><p>I could direct anyone to EQ2flames for specific discussion on very focused aspects of the PVP changes, but given it's a business and they want to look good on their own forums, you can't really blame anyone for limiting the impression and extent of the feedback because there are so many diverse threads swamping all other discussion, when fundamentally they are about the same thing. I'm a firm believer that well written and directed feedback can hit the 'powers who be' for six, and it's quality rather than quantity that will encourage actions based on feedback here.</p><p>I'm sorry that some of the threads have been removed, as I know it's nice to put your point out there. I am reading each additional post and have an almost encyclopedic knowledge of what people think now <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15"> So keep posting on the thread as Friday is notoriously slow here, and I'm lloking to bridge these last 5 hours into the weekend!</p></blockquote>Ah. Fair play, then.</blockquote>Hehe you [Removed for Content] are an evil lot, I fought with and against you on many occassions and it's been tremendous fun for players who invest a lot of time and effort making their toons the best they can be. If I was a Q primarily, I'd be in your guild <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Avanar
12-14-2007, 03:40 PM
Well i can say that pvp really sucks...just had a 22 warden try an kill me a 25 fury an all i did during the entire fight was buff lol and heal myself...ran him outta mana...then he decided to melee...well I just laughed at which time some other Qs came by an killed him...Then was grouped with a guildie who ended up in pvp an of course like a good fellow guildie I helped him an got a doppy amount of exp for the kills...which almost boosted my level an greyed out some quests I was still finishing...good going SOE and the carebear clan for ruining pvp ...you all need glasses as this was not a pve server...Anyway this should help you carebears out...I'm done with this game, it's a waste of time to put in work on your toon only to level up so fast to again have to rework the toon just from pvp...those carebears will be sorry when they hit the higher tiers an get owned lol...maybe they should start crying now an SOE can nerf all the 80s in the game so that maybe everytime they kill someone lower then them they lose 1pp...lol anyway looks like population on the server has been adversely affected...good luck to those acutal pvp people that stay.

ckl
12-14-2007, 03:42 PM
<cite>Wraithstalker wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>cklab wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wraithstalker wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>cklab wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Another set of threads killed.</p><p>Im just curious, is there some kind of thread limit the boards can have?  I mean this is an issue the population wants to talk about, yet they keep locking and merging threads.  I don't think a half a dozen threads talking about an issue that effects everyone that plays pvp is to much to ask.  Its not like its the same person starting all these threads.  These are all different people with different opinions and idea's, and for the most part each thread is somewhat unique.</p></blockquote>Not to mention the thread they ninja deleted that was asking who wasn't PVPing at all to see if the XP would be reduced. </blockquote><p><b>That was my thread, and I received a very good explanation why it was removed,</b> so I'm not too concerned. I think the overriding factor here is to communicate on the existing threads as I believe each word is being poured over in detail, and if any action is taken, it's as a result of wanting to make the players happier. Developers are not out to make people unhappy, they want happy players, so tell them what would make you happy, tell them what you really want, and then judge the effectiveness of your feedback on what occurs in the coming weeks. PvP players are a tough crowd (rightly so!), so they know whatever they do it has to be spot on. The depth of feeling here demonstrates EQ2 success as an engaging and worthwhile MMO PVP experience, I just wish they could extend the experience a lot more with more resource available for this development.</p><p>I have no problem outlining my thoughts that the change was ill considered and rushed and now is causing problems, and i have also given feedback as to how changes would make me personally feel a bit happier. It's wait and see time I think, and I also believe that the message is out there, it's up to SOE as an organization to impress us all.</p><p>I could direct anyone to EQ2flames for specific discussion on very focused aspects of the PVP changes, but given it's a business and they want to look good on their own forums, you can't really blame anyone for limiting the impression and extent of the feedback because there are so many diverse threads swamping all other discussion, when fundamentally they are about the same thing. I'm a firm believer that well written and directed feedback can hit the 'powers who be' for six, and it's quality rather than quantity that will encourage actions based on feedback here.</p><p>I'm sorry that some of the threads have been removed, as I know it's nice to put your point out there. I am reading each additional post and have an almost encyclopedic knowledge of what people think now <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15"> So keep posting on the thread as Friday is notoriously slow here, and I'm lloking to bridge these last 5 hours into the weekend!</p></blockquote>Ah. Fair play, then.</blockquote>Hehe you [I cannot control my vocabulary] are an evil lot, I fought with and against you on many occassions and it's been tremendous fun for players who invest a lot of time and effort making their toons the best they can be. If I was a Q primarily, I'd be in your guild <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote><p>Shh... level lockers only kill newbies, remember?</p><p>Magically I'm able to grief them repeatedly on my level 40 dirge.</p><p>/sarcasmoff</p>

Wraithstalker
12-14-2007, 03:45 PM
<cite>Avanar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well i can say that pvp really sucks...just had a 22 warden try an kill me a 25 fury an all i did during the entire fight was buff lol and heal myself...ran him outta mana...then he decided to melee...well I just laughed at which time some other Qs came by an killed him...Then was grouped with a guildie who ended up in pvp an of course like a good fellow guildie I helped him an got a doppy amount of exp for the kills...which almost boosted my level an greyed out some quests I was still finishing...good going SOE and the carebear clan for ruining pvp ...you all need glasses as this was not a pve server...Anyway this should help you carebears out...I'm done with this game, it's a waste of time to put in work on your toon only to level up so fast to again have to rework the toon just from pvp...those carebears will be sorry when they hit the higher tiers an get owned lol...maybe they should start crying now an SOE can nerf all the 80s in the game so that maybe everytime they kill someone lower then them they lose 1pp...lol anyway looks like population on the server has been adversely affected...good luck to those acutal pvp people that stay.</blockquote><p>So you're saying that the amount of xp gained from a pvp kill was adversely effecting your ability to complete content? I guess when you compare the play against a PVE server, PvP'ers are now worse off in terms of content as they can bypass it quickly. Seems a shame they spent all the time on the new lower level zone, then people can blow through the whole thing in less than two hours if pvping and out level the content.</p><p>Just trying to put a more postitive spin on feedback here, as I think if you give examples of the kills and quests you were looking to do, this would really help leverage any decisions to review the current change.</p>

Roald
12-14-2007, 03:59 PM
<cite>cklab wrote:</cite><blockquote>"> <p>Shh... level lockers only kill newbies, remember?</p><p>Magically I'm able to grief them repeatedly on my level 40 dirge.</p></blockquote>I'm glad you admit that.

Marcula
12-14-2007, 04:01 PM
<p><span style="color: #00ccff;">Breaking news flash</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ccff;">Saying people are running away from PvP because they do not want to level is a blatant lie and absolute horse [Removed for Content]. </span></p><p><span style="color: #00ccff;">back to your regular programing.</span></p>

MaCloud1032
12-14-2007, 04:05 PM
<cite>cklab wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><b>Yes, they could. There is dueling and arena play on PVE servers.</b> </p><p>Penalizing players on a PVP server for PVPing makes very little sense. The same goes for forcing them to level up against their will for actively PVPing. People who play PVE can bypass most, if not all, adventure XP if they truly wanted. The same can't be said now for PVP players.</p><p>And to your last line: The moment Nagafen and the other PVP servers were created.</p></blockquote><p>If you call dueling and the arena PvP then you got to be high.  The rule sets for that are bases on PvE and in no way are balanced.  Also by this then all server are PvP?  First and formost PvE will always come first for SoE.  PvP weather you like it or not is a add on.Yes PvE can bypass combat xp but these are pvp severs and now you can no longer sit at one level and pvp your brains out.  You are not leveling up against your will if you dont want to level dont kill stuff easy as that.  Just like telling someone who doestn want to pvp not to roll on a pvp server.  </p><p>Ive hurd it all from its for the content to pvp for reasons to lock well if your reason was for content then there is nothing to complain about.  Your toon is what 17 and has over 600kills more than enough for that pressious faction gear that everyone must have.  Ask your self this why were you locked? </p><p>Faction gear? you already have more than enough kills for it.  Content?  Your already maxed on AAs. What else is there to see in common lands?  Gear from mobs?  The faction gear blows the stuff out of the water.  Mobs dont hit hard enough to need it.  Kill peope who cant fight back?  Well seeing as all of the others dont fit iam guessing this is it</p>

Wraithstalker
12-14-2007, 04:06 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><span style="color: #00ccff;">Breaking news flash</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ccff;">Saying people are running away from PvP because they do not want to level is a blatant lie and absolute horse [I cannot control my vocabulary]. </span></p><p><span style="color: #00ccff;">back to your regular programing.</span></p></blockquote><p>This sweeping generalization is just as 'untrue' as you percieve the original post. If you could have taken time to have been specific or given examples, then I'm sure a little more notice would have been taken of your opinion.</p>

Marcula
12-14-2007, 04:13 PM
<p><span style="color: #00ccff;">I have yet to see anyone run......does that make it clearer or would you like me to make something up to support my position?</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ccff;"> Or would you like to explain what is the point of people running so as not to gain xp? What are they doing? Can't kill anything, can't PvP....are all the sad twinkers crafting now or something?</span></p>

Avanar
12-14-2007, 04:30 PM
Last reply... both accounts canceled <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> maybe the noobs/carebears who don't want to spend the time perfecting their toons can now level since there was sooooo much pvping an griefing going on that they could not help themselves but complain instead of thinking ways around it...to bad those carebears lacked any sense of problem solving....maybe SoE should just give eveyone that's left all the best gear and AA etc so that all the fights can be fair...but i'm sure the carebears will find something else to complain about...oh my he beat me it's not fair somehow...the carebears need to wake up to the sad realization that pvp isn't about fairness...its about working to overcoming tough obsticles like griefing or twinked players...I feel sorry for all those who took the time an effort to actually think out how they wanted to gear/AA/adorn their toons, they basically have wasted a ton of time for nothing, me being one of them...to the brilliant people that say pve comes first to SoE ...that is why they HAVE PVE servers...Nagafin was listed as PVP...if you don't want all out PVP then you should be playing on PVE when you can /duel or arena when you want on your terms...to those fools that say no one is running away or not fighting back on pvp encounter...I was one of them...I could have easily defeated a [Removed for Content] 22 warden who decided to attack me in Forstfell ...but I didn't want the exp gain an figured I could out last him with mana conservation...OMG carebears...do you kow what mana conservation is...maybe you should look it up or ask some one...helps alot in pvp..or used too...anyway only reason he died was due to him running out of power an meleeing me, other Q came by an killed him...not once did I even hit him or do damage to him...Bristlepelt was not on and I don't have Lambent...the game was fun while it lasted...I truely liked the unexpected makes for stronger players compared to a PVE server who don't have to worry about PVP just popping in on you...but oh well this may last post...both accounts have been cancelled...to which I'm sure those without pvp skills are happy...and again to any pvpers that do stay best wishes the fights were fun <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Wraithstalker
12-14-2007, 04:31 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><span style="color: #00ccff;">I have yet to see anyone run......does that make it clearer or would you like me to make something up to support my position?</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ccff;"> Or would you like to explain what is the point of people running so as not to gain xp? What are they doing? Can't kill anything, can't PvP....are all the sad twinkers crafting now or something?</span></p></blockquote><p>So the fact that in your experience you have not seen anyone run, that is just doesn't happen at all on any server, at any teir, completely wrong! Also being on Venekor, I'm surprised you see anyone do anything. You don't have to make anything else up.</p>

ckl
12-14-2007, 04:34 PM
<cite><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></cite><cite><blockquote><cite>cklab wrote:</cite><blockquote>"> <p>Shh... level lockers only kill newbies, remember?</p><p>Magically I'm able to grief them repeatedly on my level 40 dirge.</p></blockquote>I'm glad you admit that.</blockquote><p>Oh wow. Yeah man, my dirge really is able to kill level 10 people right off newb island. I'm glad you missed the obvious sarcasm, as indicated by the /sarcasmoff you omitted. </p></cite><p><cite></cite></p><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><cite>cklab wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><b>Yes, they could. There is dueling and arena play on PVE servers.</b> </p><p>Penalizing players on a PVP server for PVPing makes very little sense. The same goes for forcing them to level up against their will for actively PVPing. People who play PVE can bypass most, if not all, adventure XP if they truly wanted. The same can't be said now for PVP players.</p><p>And to your last line: The moment Nagafen and the other PVP servers were created.</p></blockquote><p><b>If you call dueling and the arena PvP then you got to be high.</b>  The rule sets for that are bases on PvE and in no way are balanced.  Also by this then all server are PvP?  First and formost PvE will always come first for SoE.  PvP weather you like it or not is a add on.Yes PvE can bypass combat xp but these are pvp severs and now you can no longer sit at one level and pvp your brains out.  You are not leveling up against your will if you dont want to level dont kill stuff easy as that.  Just like telling someone who doestn want to pvp not to roll on a pvp server.  </p><p>Ive hurd it all from its for the content to pvp for reasons to lock well if your reason was for content then there is nothing to complain about.  Your toon is what 17 and has over 600kills more than enough for that pressious faction gear that everyone must have.  Ask your self this why were you locked? </p><p>Faction gear? you already have more than enough kills for it.  Content?  <b>Your already maxed on AAs.</b> What else is there to see in common lands?  Gear from mobs?  The faction gear blows the stuff out of the water.  Mobs dont hit hard enough to need it.  Kill peope who cant fight back?  Well seeing as all of the others dont fit iam guessing this is it</p></blockquote><p>Oh hey, it's the, er, well, guy who got me a three day ban. Have thin skin much?</p><p>Anyway, I weeded through the excuse of a reply you made and highlighted just a few of your errors (I even left out the spelling and grammar errors, lucky you). Here are my responses:</p><p>I believe dueling is encompassed in "Player vs. Player" combat. After all, a player is fighting another player, correct? I never said anything about the rulesets being the same--it fits the definition of PVP, so it is.</p><p>My character is not maxxed on AAs. I have 18.4 at level 17. So, in response to your off topic observation that my character has a few kills, he's nowhere near maxxed for AA. And there are quite a few nameds I have yet to be lucky enough to kill.</p>

Marcula
12-14-2007, 04:35 PM
<span style="color: #00ccff;">Avanar ~ It amazes me that you just can't quite grasp the fact that you were infact the carebear with your playstyle. Good luck to you in real life</span>.

Marcula
12-14-2007, 04:39 PM
<cite>Wraithstalker wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><span style="color: #00ccff;">I have yet to see anyone run......does that make it clearer or would you like me to make something up to support my position?</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ccff;"> Or would you like to explain what is the point of people running so as not to gain xp? What are they doing? Can't kill anything, can't PvP....are all the sad twinkers crafting now or something?</span></p></blockquote><p>So the fact that in your experience you have not seen anyone run, that is just doesn't happen at all on any server, at any teir, completely wrong! <b><span style="color: #ccff00;">Also being on Venekor, I'm surprised you see anyone do anything.</span></b> You don't have to make anything else up.</p><span style="color: #00ccff;">OMG stop it....you are killing me! That was pure genius! My belly is hurting from laughing so much.........well done!</span></blockquote>

Wraithstalker
12-14-2007, 04:43 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><span style="color: #00ccff;">Avanar ~ It amazes me that you just can't quite grasp the fact that you were infact the carebear with your playstyle. Good luck to you in real life</span>.</blockquote><p>Just what bearing does this have on real life, other than to insult this poster? If you can't at least post constructively, I think it would benefit us all not to hear from you again.</p><p>Also why categorize players as hardcore or carebear. The very fact that people play this game the way they want allows them to dictate their own playstyle outside of these rather shortsighted parameters. This is what people are complaining about, this option has been removed for better or worse. I suggest you concentrate on what you enjoy in the game and allow others a voice to put forward their opinions too.</p>

Darman81
12-14-2007, 04:53 PM
<p>I wish you luck Avanar!</p><p>Im gonna tough it out for a few weeks and hope SOE tones down the XP gains for pvp kills in lower tiers!</p><p>Im even gonna roll on venekor in hopes of better pvp!</p><p>Some of the advocates of the changes promised they would kill me when I get to Venekor!</p>

ckl
12-14-2007, 04:54 PM
<cite>Wraithstalker wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><span style="color: #00ccff;">I have yet to see anyone run......does that make it clearer or would you like me to make something up to support my position?</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ccff;"> Or would you like to explain what is the point of people running so as not to gain xp? What are they doing? Can't kill anything, can't PvP....are all the sad twinkers crafting now or something?</span></p></blockquote><p>So the fact that in your experience you have not seen anyone run, that is just doesn't happen at all on any server, at any teir, completely wrong! Also being on Venekor, I'm surprised you see anyone do anything. You don't have to make anything else up.</p></blockquote>Maybe he should be dubbed Omniscientwilly

serilis
12-14-2007, 04:56 PM
Logged in last night and within a few minutes found a group heading to RoV, when we arrived we found pvp with not just one Q group, not two, but three. Then afterwords we left for CBK, we found multiple Q's on the way. Then inside CBK we found a few q's. Then after my group broke up I went to nek to quest and found pvp easily, as well as a few kills in EL.pvp is still out there, the only thing thats changed is I didnt run into 1 squad of mounted ubers rolling around. weird. its like they were on some forum whinging about there not being any pvp instead of pvping.<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

MaCloud1032
12-14-2007, 04:57 PM
<cite>cklab wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Oh hey, it's the, er, well, guy who got me a three day ban. Have thin skin much?</p><p>Anyway, I weeded through the excuse of a reply you made and highlighted just a few of your errors (I even left out the spelling and grammar errors, lucky you). Here are my responses:</p><p>I believe dueling is encompassed in "Player vs. Player" combat. After all, a player is fighting another player, correct? I never said anything about the rulesets being the same--it fits the definition of PVP, so it is.</p><p>My character is not maxxed on AAs. I have 18.4 at level 17. So, in response to your off topic observation that my character has a few kills, he's nowhere near maxxed for AA. And there are quite a few nameds I have yet to be lucky enough to kill.</p></blockquote>How did i get you banned?  Iam not a mod in any way shape or form.  I dont write your posts.  Grats you can point out that i cant spell and my grammer is poor.  bravo.  get that man a cookie.Yes but when we bring up PvP we mean it in the current rule set of the 3 servers.  You may not but i do.  So yes that is PvP but when i can 10k death touch or get stuned for 40 sec something is missing there.As for 18 AA i guess you have some PvE to work on to get maxed then so you do have areason to lock.

Darman81
12-14-2007, 04:59 PM
<p>Hey Willy things must be great on Venekor but for Nagafen it has really hurt the PVP.</p><p>Your right, no whining will change a thing!</p><p>Thats why I'm rolling on Venekor tonight just to see how great the PVP is!</p><p>Hopefully I wont be dissapointed!</p>

Pyra Shineflame
12-14-2007, 05:46 PM
<cite>cklab wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I don't know but I'm definitely PVPing on either of my characters until either PVP XP is removed or reduced to a fraction of what it currently is.</p><p>I had every intention of leveling my swashbuckler and dirge up with the changes. I've bought just about every master each character needs for the next 15 levels. Seeing how much XP people are getting is a slap in the face and makes all of that useless. I could have saved 10-15 plat by buying rares for adept 3s and making them with my jeweler, since there's no way I'd be in any certain tier for very long. </p><p>It really amazes me how far they missed on this change. The problem wasn't the gear discrepancy between level lockers and newer players, it was that a few of us would repeatedly kill the same person. In that case some of the fault lies with the new player for allowing that to happen to himself, but most of it lies with the griefer. <b>If the newer players can't handle dying a few times and going somewhere else at this stage, good luck to them once they get higher level.</b> The gear difference in T2 is easily bypassed by harvesting and making mastercrafted armor (won't even get into the RoK gear, but that's an option, too), by leveling out of the tier, or by grouping to complete the desired content.</p><p>As it stands my account is cancelled and set to expire on the 18th. I really hope they remove PVP XP and figure out some other way to combat the griefing, because there <i>are</i> better options available. I'll list a few, hoping that a few people can read them before this post is likely deleted:</p><p>1. Some sort of "new player" system to prevent characters, or characters on an account, less than a week old from being attacked in PVP combat. Not my favorite, but a system similar to this was employed by UO to help new players get accustomed to the game.</p><p>2. I've suggested a few times to place a temporary "full" carnage flag on anyone who kills someone on their recent list. The full part means the player can be attacked by anyone of any faction, even his own. Obviously would have to be tweaked so that if the person is attacked by someone on his recent list, he can kill that person without being carnage flagged. This would promote PVP and discourage griefing: if the player who was killed decides to take another crack at the person who just killed him, he's every right to, and the other person won't be penalized. This is my favorite option, and one I really hope someone, somewhere reads, and with an open mind, too, despite my sometimes brash attituded and ad hominem attacks on others.</p><p>Either of those would be far better than penalizing people who enjoy fulfilling their character's full potential for PVPing, because as it stands, being forced to gain XP for a particular playstyle really isn't fair if there's no AA gain to go along with it.</p></blockquote><p>They don't stay new forever.</p><p>There is a difference between ganking at the lower levels and ganking at the top.</p><p>At the top they are expected to know their place and class.</p><p>At the lower levels they have no chance whatsoever. That's not how its supposed to be.</p><p>Fixing the new player to accomodate for those that want to grief rather than fixing the griefers is what you seem to be advocating. If you aren't...</p><p>The pvp servers are pve with pvp elements...such drastic changes simply might not be possible on the game engine. EQ2 wasn't a game designed for it, they had to make do with what they had.</p>

ckl
12-14-2007, 05:54 PM
<cite>Pyra Shineflame wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>cklab wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I don't know but I'm definitely PVPing on either of my characters until either PVP XP is removed or reduced to a fraction of what it currently is.</p><p>I had every intention of leveling my swashbuckler and dirge up with the changes. I've bought just about every master each character needs for the next 15 levels. Seeing how much XP people are getting is a slap in the face and makes all of that useless. I could have saved 10-15 plat by buying rares for adept 3s and making them with my jeweler, since there's no way I'd be in any certain tier for very long. </p><p>It really amazes me how far they missed on this change. The problem wasn't the gear discrepancy between level lockers and newer players, it was that a few of us would repeatedly kill the same person. In that case some of the fault lies with the new player for allowing that to happen to himself, but most of it lies with the griefer. <b>If the newer players can't handle dying a few times and going somewhere else at this stage, good luck to them once they get higher level.</b> The gear difference in T2 is easily bypassed by harvesting and making mastercrafted armor (won't even get into the RoK gear, but that's an option, too), by leveling out of the tier, or by grouping to complete the desired content.</p><p>As it stands my account is cancelled and set to expire on the 18th. I really hope they remove PVP XP and figure out some other way to combat the griefing, because there <i>are</i> better options available. I'll list a few, hoping that a few people can read them before this post is likely deleted:</p><p>1. Some sort of "new player" system to prevent characters, or characters on an account, less than a week old from being attacked in PVP combat. Not my favorite, but a system similar to this was employed by UO to help new players get accustomed to the game.</p><p>2. I've suggested a few times to place a temporary "full" carnage flag on anyone who kills someone on their recent list. The full part means the player can be attacked by anyone of any faction, even his own. Obviously would have to be tweaked so that if the person is attacked by someone on his recent list, he can kill that person without being carnage flagged. This would promote PVP and discourage griefing: if the player who was killed decides to take another crack at the person who just killed him, he's every right to, and the other person won't be penalized. This is my favorite option, and one I really hope someone, somewhere reads, and with an open mind, too, despite my sometimes brash attituded and ad hominem attacks on others.</p><p>Either of those would be far better than penalizing people who enjoy fulfilling their character's full potential for PVPing, because as it stands, being forced to gain XP for a particular playstyle really isn't fair if there's no AA gain to go along with it.</p></blockquote><p>They don't stay new forever.</p><p>There is a difference between ganking at the lower levels and ganking at the top.</p><p>At the top they are expected to know their place and class.</p><p>At the lower levels they have no chance whatsoever. That's not how its supposed to be.</p><p>Fixing the new player to accomodate for those that want to grief rather than fixing the griefers is what you seem to be advocating. If you aren't...</p><p>The pvp servers are pve with pvp elements...such drastic changes simply might not be possible on the game engine. EQ2 wasn't a game designed for it, they had to make do with what they had.</p></blockquote><p>Sorry, but knowledge and experience isn't going to really help out that level 60 who finds himself killed by a level 75-80 in a no limit zone. Don't tell me it doesn't happen for lack of rewards; the same argument could have been made for low level griefing, but obviously that isn't the case.</p><p>Again, the change won't help the new player at all against the veteran who rolls an alt and twinks himself despite the PVP XP. If anything, it'll make it harder for the new player, especially if prices fall on a lot of the T2 masters and fabled items. </p><p>There's a lot to be said for preparation, new player or not. It <i>is</i> a gear based, PVE game, and nothing will change that. My contention is that there were alternatives to ruining a playstyle for a good portion of the players. I don't really care that they don't have the resources or means to accomplish those alternatives. It's just one extra thing to drive me away from the game I've played for probably two years of the three it's been out, especially considering the magnitude of how overboard they went with the PVP XP.</p>

Xantinya
12-14-2007, 06:03 PM
<cite>Korvoth wrote:</cite><blockquote>My girlfriend and I started new toons this week and are now coming up on level 20 with combat exp locked so we can gain AA's. We not particularly interested in level locking but we both enjoy PVP. I've played a lot before the update and TD use to flourish with PVP. Now, coming up on 20, we havn't even seen a single PVP fight. We ran across a few players but they ran, and I know why. The experience given is too much. I think all this update has done now is made PVP a rare thing, and I really don't even understand that considering SOE should be trying to implement things to promote PVP, not the opposite. I was never a huge fan of level locking but I didn't care of others did it. I was a new player only few months ago and when I was killed within 45 seconds of dinging level 10 and getting one shotted I hopped on the forums to find out why. I then farmed rares, made my own spells and armor and turned combat exp off. I was able to compete with people within a week after just reading in the forums for 30 min. I still couldn't beat toons decked in fabled gear but there weren't that many of them out there. It never turned me from the game, it made me want fight back and if anything motivated me because I don't like losing. Anyone who quits before learning what they should be doing should have played on a different server at the start, or know how to get information on what to do. Pvp is not hard and its not hard at all to get geared up for it. Now the game seems boring and its only a few days after the update. TD seemed empty, DLW seems empty, Commonlands was empty of PVP. Either the people that threatened to quit really did quit or no one is really looking to pvp. In my own opinion, I think the update was absolutely lazy and should have been tested or something. Its effects are already taking there toll. I'm sure theres still pvp going on. But its nothing like it was a week ago. I loved doing a quest and constantly looking over my shoulder to see if a scout or group was ready to attack me. It added a challenge I liked to the game and open PVP is what eq2 was about. I loved trade-skilling and keeping my guy wearing the best armor and best spells each level, I like taking it slow. I always made it a point to try and get 35 kills or so per level so I could get pvp armor at 20. On my new toon, I can forget that, I have ZERO kills. I don't see the point in making adept III's and making armor at least at low level tiers because now you just plow through those tiers now and it's a waste. I loved doing that each level. I would post some of my own thoughts and ideas like MANY others have done but I don't see why it would matter because it looks as if SOE doesn't read or care. I never really took one side or another but I believe changing the game like this has hurt both sides. I'm going to continue to play although I hope its not this dull on the way to 80.... I don't want to go through the game like this. 80 might be where all the action is but whats the point if the road there is boring? </blockquote><p><b><u>BINGO!</u></b>   And this is why I was a fan of locking, pvp in all tiers, possibility to pvp with guildies and friends of all levels (since we can't pvp while mentoring), and it was keeping lower tiers zones very lively.   The ones who thought it was so very unfair at lower levels because some players were twinked and some werent, this gap was easy to overcome by doing what the OP says he did, learn how to play the game, harvest your rares, get your AAs, and so on, and if you thought lower tiers pvp was unfair wait till you see higher level pvp lol, the gap between raiding and non raiding guilds gets much worse, you will have a reason to cry because the only way you will be able to compete with them will be to join a raiding guild too to get fabled gear, which is no fun at all if you don't like raiding on a regular basis.</p><p>Also many of us who had more then one account because they wanted characters locked in different tiers for pvp (often more then one of the same class) will now be able to close an account or 2 since they won't need so many characters anymore. </p><p>P.S. I dont remember any game forcing players to level, there was always a way to loose experience and stay at lower levels if you wanted to.  I wouldnt know about WoW tho since I never tried that one.</p>

bangbangshang
12-14-2007, 06:09 PM
<p>I find it intersting that the OP says he is pretty much new to the PVP scene and that he took the time to do a bit of research and doesn't really seem to buy into the "poor" new guy mantra that so many love to cling to as justification for this poorly planned change.</p><p> i find it interesting because he is the same new guy that these people claim to be looking out for and yet because he is looking at it from a different point of view, one where he took the initiative to gear up and get prepared he is jeered.  had his OP been a canned "omg great change, i can now quest without pvp on a pvp server" he would have been patted on the back and cradled some more.</p><p>he did what many other new people i know did.  they played the game.  no whines no calls for custom changes.  just played the game and learned to compete.  i do not believe for one second that there are more people that left than stayed.</p>

ckl
12-14-2007, 06:17 PM
<cite>bangbangshang wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I find it intersting that the OP says he is pretty much new to the PVP scene and that he took the time to do a bit of research and doesn't really seem to buy into the "poor" new guy mantra that so many love to cling to as justification for this poorly planned change.</p><p> i find it interesting because he is the same new guy that these people claim to be looking out for and yet because he is looking at it from a different point of view, one where he took the initiative to gear up and get prepared he is jeered.  had his OP been a canned "omg great change, i can now quest without pvp on a pvp server" he would have been patted on the back and cradled some more.</p><p>he did what many other new people i know did.  they played the game.  no whines no calls for custom changes.  just played the game and learned to compete.  i do not believe for one second that there are more people that left than stayed.</p></blockquote><p>Ditto. I did the same about a year ago when from what I understand the twinks started emerging. I know I started mine in late December and had him more or less finished a few weeks later.</p>

Rutaq
12-14-2007, 07:33 PM
<cite>cklab wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I don't know but I'm definitely PVPing on either of my characters until either PVP XP is removed or reduced to a fraction of what it currently is.</p><p>I had every intention of leveling my swashbuckler and dirge up with the changes. I've bought just about every master each character needs for the next 15 levels. Seeing how much XP people are getting is a slap in the face and makes all of that useless. I could have saved 10-15 plat by buying rares for adept 3s and making them with my jeweler, since there's no way I'd be in any certain tier for very long. </p><p>It really amazes me how far they missed on this change. The problem wasn't the gear discrepancy between level lockers and newer players, it was that a few of us would repeatedly kill the same person. In that case some of the fault lies with the new player for allowing that to happen to himself, but most of it lies with the griefer. If the newer players can't handle dying a few times and going somewhere else at this stage, good luck to them once they get higher level. The gear difference in T2 is easily bypassed by harvesting and making mastercrafted armor (won't even get into the RoK gear, but that's an option, too), by leveling out of the tier, or by grouping to complete the desired content.</p><p>As it stands my account is cancelled and set to expire on the 18th. I really hope they remove PVP XP and figure out some other way to combat the griefing, because there <i>are</i> better options available. I'll list a few, hoping that a few people can read them before this post is likely deleted:</p><p>1. Some sort of "new player" system to prevent characters, or characters on an account, less than a week old from being attacked in PVP combat. Not my favorite, but a system similar to this was employed by UO to help new players get accustomed to the game.</p><p>2. I've suggested a few times to place a temporary "full" carnage flag on anyone who kills someone on their recent list. The full part means the player can be attacked by anyone of any faction, even his own. Obviously would have to be tweaked so that if the person is attacked by someone on his recent list, he can kill that person without being carnage flagged. This would promote PVP and discourage griefing: if the player who was killed decides to take another crack at the person who just killed him, he's every right to, and the other person won't be penalized. This is my favorite option, and one I really hope someone, somewhere reads, and with an open mind, too, despite my sometimes brash attituded and ad hominem attacks on others.</p><p>Either of those would be far better than penalizing people who enjoy fulfilling their character's full potential for PVPing, because as it stands, being forced to gain XP for a particular playstyle really isn't fair if there's no AA gain to go along with it.</p></blockquote><p>I am sorry that you want to quit, but it is hardly reasonable that EVERYONE else has to adapt <i> ( Mandatory farming or buying all MC gear at T2, Being forced to group to complete simple solo content, hiding in a corner and grinding your way out of T2 ASAP )</i>  to the abusive playstyle of a bunch of people that think it is fun to make a perfect locked T2 toon and then test drive it over the newbs and others that are trying to play EQ2 as it was designed... " <b>A level based PvE MMO with level limited PvP spread on top</b> ".</p><p>    You preach about locked T2 twinking as some God given right or some obvious status quo in the MMO world.  It was an anomaly that occurred when a PvE system was used in a competitive PvP environment and had an over powered result.  Kinda like Mentoring, Chain Stuns, Zoning, Evac, etc...   It was obviously fun for the people that pursued it but it was overpowered and now has a limit imposed on it.  </p><p>  EQ2 is constantly evolving and I am sure this isn't the last overpowered PvP element that will be limited, just hang on for a couple months and I am sure there will be another thread spam of  " EQ2 PvP is dead"     " Get your Carebear out of my Player versus Player"     "I am quitting cuz you nerfed my l33t OP'dness"</p>

Wraithstalker
12-14-2007, 07:53 PM
<cite>Rutaq wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>cklab wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I don't know but I'm definitely PVPing on either of my characters until either PVP XP is removed or reduced to a fraction of what it currently is.</p><p>I had every intention of leveling my swashbuckler and dirge up with the changes. I've bought just about every master each character needs for the next 15 levels. Seeing how much XP people are getting is a slap in the face and makes all of that useless. I could have saved 10-15 plat by buying rares for adept 3s and making them with my jeweler, since there's no way I'd be in any certain tier for very long. </p><p>It really amazes me how far they missed on this change. The problem wasn't the gear discrepancy between level lockers and newer players, it was that a few of us would repeatedly kill the same person. In that case some of the fault lies with the new player for allowing that to happen to himself, but most of it lies with the griefer. If the newer players can't handle dying a few times and going somewhere else at this stage, good luck to them once they get higher level. The gear difference in T2 is easily bypassed by harvesting and making mastercrafted armor (won't even get into the RoK gear, but that's an option, too), by leveling out of the tier, or by grouping to complete the desired content.</p><p>As it stands my account is cancelled and set to expire on the 18th. I really hope they remove PVP XP and figure out some other way to combat the griefing, because there <i>are</i> better options available. I'll list a few, hoping that a few people can read them before this post is likely deleted:</p><p>1. Some sort of "new player" system to prevent characters, or characters on an account, less than a week old from being attacked in PVP combat. Not my favorite, but a system similar to this was employed by UO to help new players get accustomed to the game.</p><p>2. I've suggested a few times to place a temporary "full" carnage flag on anyone who kills someone on their recent list. The full part means the player can be attacked by anyone of any faction, even his own. Obviously would have to be tweaked so that if the person is attacked by someone on his recent list, he can kill that person without being carnage flagged. This would promote PVP and discourage griefing: if the player who was killed decides to take another crack at the person who just killed him, he's every right to, and the other person won't be penalized. This is my favorite option, and one I really hope someone, somewhere reads, and with an open mind, too, despite my sometimes brash attituded and ad hominem attacks on others.</p><p>Either of those would be far better than penalizing people who enjoy fulfilling their character's full potential for PVPing, because as it stands, being forced to gain XP for a particular playstyle really isn't fair if there's no AA gain to go along with it.</p></blockquote><p>I am sorry that you want to quit, but it is hardly reasonable that EVERYONE else has to adapt <i> ( Mandatory farming or buying all MC gear at T2, Being forced to group to complete simple solo content, hiding in a corner and grinding your way out of T2 ASAP )</i>  to the abusive playstyle of a bunch of people that think it is fun to make a perfect locked T2 toon and then test drive it over the newbs and others that are trying to play EQ2 as it was designed... " <b>A level based PvE MMO with level limited PvP spread on top</b> ".</p><p>    You preach about locked T2 twinking as some God given right or some obvious status quo in the MMO world.  It was an anomaly that occurred when a PvE system was used in a competitive PvP environment and had an over powered result.  Kinda like Mentoring, Chain Stuns, Zoning, Evac, etc...   It was obviously fun for the people that pursued it but it was overpowered and now has a limit imposed on it.  </p><p>  EQ2 is constantly evolving and I am sure this isn't the last overpowered PvP element that will be limited, just hang on for a couple months and I am sure there will be another thread spam of  " EQ2 PvP is dead"     " Get your Carebear out of my Player versus Player"     "I am quitting cuz you nerfed my l33t OP'dness"</p></blockquote><p>This may be the case in isolation, but the bigger picture doesn't support this. Suppose a few players locked T2 to act in this way, now if other players didn't lock they would soon be beyond this level. I've heard stories that you can get to lvl 20 in a day easily. Now consider the fact that nearly everyone is locking at this level because they want to participate in the same behaviour? This is what was happening, everyone wanted to be a part of this at lower levels, just some were much more able to do so than others, and some classes are stronger early on also.</p><p>People were complaining about the same player over and over in some server boards, shouldn't they have outlevelled that threat? answer is they didn't want to, they just wanted to do what was happening to them to others, and better. I'm not sure where the dev's got their data on all their poor noobs who quit, but I don't think it reflected the true picture given the number of players in T2. So what if it takes no skill or whatever else people come up with, the fact is, it was very popular, and a lot of people enjoyed it. If anything the true enemy of the T2 noob was the organization skills of the lower level opponents to roll in highly effective groups. It was numbers that caused this, not equipment as it can be agreed that RoK offered the new player a lifeline.</p><p>I think some people who have come out on the side of the xp addition probably were some of the people who couldn't quite hit the top spot in terms of ability, therefore take great pleasure in those who did, being deposed. I think quality players will shine at whatever level, and I also know some T8's are going to get a very rude awakening once the T2 twinks reach T8 and still roll in their perfectly balanced groups and levelling now is going to be fierce one players start pvping again (many are holding off)</p><p>Me, I'm a T2 player really who was killed over and over, and you know what, I treated it like a PvE encounter, i.e. that mob or group of mobs is way to hard for me to fight, I better move on. It's easy to deny involvement with the 'locking phenomenom', but as I checked out station players, some of the most voceferous supporters of the new system, appeared to be the players who took advantage of the old one too, very much so in one or two cases <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> (OP and reply to guys, not you I will add).</p><p>My concern is that there will be other issues to replace the locking issue where players will seek to create an imbalance or to stack the odds in their favour.</p>

ckl
12-14-2007, 08:00 PM
<cite>Rutaq wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>cklab wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I don't know but I'm definitely PVPing on either of my characters until either PVP XP is removed or reduced to a fraction of what it currently is.</p><p>I had every intention of leveling my swashbuckler and dirge up with the changes. I've bought just about every master each character needs for the next 15 levels. Seeing how much XP people are getting is a slap in the face and makes all of that useless. I could have saved 10-15 plat by buying rares for adept 3s and making them with my jeweler, since there's no way I'd be in any certain tier for very long. </p><p>It really amazes me how far they missed on this change. The problem wasn't the gear discrepancy between level lockers and newer players, it was that a few of us would repeatedly kill the same person. In that case some of the fault lies with the new player for allowing that to happen to himself, but most of it lies with the griefer. If the newer players can't handle dying a few times and going somewhere else at this stage, good luck to them once they get higher level. The gear difference in T2 is easily bypassed by harvesting and making mastercrafted armor (won't even get into the RoK gear, but that's an option, too), by leveling out of the tier, or by grouping to complete the desired content.</p><p>As it stands my account is cancelled and set to expire on the 18th. I really hope they remove PVP XP and figure out some other way to combat the griefing, because there <i>are</i> better options available. I'll list a few, hoping that a few people can read them before this post is likely deleted:</p><p>1. Some sort of "new player" system to prevent characters, or characters on an account, less than a week old from being attacked in PVP combat. Not my favorite, but a system similar to this was employed by UO to help new players get accustomed to the game.</p><p>2. I've suggested a few times to place a temporary "full" carnage flag on anyone who kills someone on their recent list. The full part means the player can be attacked by anyone of any faction, even his own. Obviously would have to be tweaked so that if the person is attacked by someone on his recent list, he can kill that person without being carnage flagged. This would promote PVP and discourage griefing: if the player who was killed decides to take another crack at the person who just killed him, he's every right to, and the other person won't be penalized. This is my favorite option, and one I really hope someone, somewhere reads, and with an open mind, too, despite my sometimes brash attituded and ad hominem attacks on others.</p><p>Either of those would be far better than penalizing people who enjoy fulfilling their character's full potential for PVPing, because as it stands, being forced to gain XP for a particular playstyle really isn't fair if there's no AA gain to go along with it.</p></blockquote><p>I am sorry that you want to quit, but it is hardly reasonable that EVERYONE else has to adapt <i> ( Mandatory farming or buying all MC gear at T2, Being forced to group to complete simple solo content, hiding in a corner and grinding your way out of T2 ASAP )</i>  to the abusive playstyle of a bunch of people that think it is fun to make a perfect locked T2 toon and then test drive it over the newbs and others that are trying to play EQ2 as it was designed... " <b>A level based PvE MMO with level limited PvP spread on top</b> ".</p><p>    You preach about locked T2 twinking as some God given right or some obvious status quo in the MMO world.  It was an anomaly that occurred when a PvE system was used in a competitive PvP environment and had an over powered result.  Kinda like Mentoring, Chain Stuns, Zoning, Evac, etc...   It was obviously fun for the people that pursued it but it was overpowered and now has a limit imposed on it.  </p><p>  EQ2 is constantly evolving and I am sure this isn't the last overpowered PvP element that will be limited, just hang on for a couple months and I am sure there will be another thread spam of  " EQ2 PvP is dead"     " Get your Carebear out of my Player versus Player"     "I am quitting cuz you nerfed my l33t OP'dness"</p></blockquote>Kind of ironic that people are telling us to adapt or leave, when people not adapting is the cause of this in the first place.All that you described to me is basically PVP. You max your character, or be prepared to be at a distinct disadvantage to the person who does. That's a tenet I've subscribed to on my level 17 swashbuckler, and to a lesser extent on my level 40 dirge, who is/was still a work in progress. No change can be made to change this basic fact of the game.If gearing up at the lower tiers is so overpowering, and so arcane that only a few can understand how to do it, why isn't the same logic being applied to the higher tiers? Just remove all raid content, pvp gear, and make everyone be on an even footing. That sounds really nice, in fact.

Spyderbite
12-14-2007, 08:48 PM
<cite>cklab wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Kind of ironic that people are telling us to adapt or leave, when people not adapting is the cause of this in the first place.</blockquote>Funny stuff. You should go on the road with that act. Or seriously consider becoming an Evangelic Preacher. Perhaps a politician. You have an innate talent to take the completely ridiculous and make it sound plausible.I'm serious.

ckl
12-14-2007, 08:59 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>cklab wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Kind of ironic that people are telling us to adapt or leave, when people not adapting is the cause of this in the first place.</blockquote>Funny stuff. You should go on the road with that act. Or seriously consider becoming an Evangelic Preacher. Perhaps a politician. You have an innate talent to take the completely ridiculous and make it sound plausible.I'm serious.</blockquote>Should I adapt to the inane drivel you pass off as responses, too?My statement was completely true. New players couldn't adapt or level past T2, and people in the higher tiers couldn't adapt to the fact that people were enjoying PVP in the lower tiers. Whining ensued, and thus the nerf, to which I am now expected to adapt. But no, I've learned from you lot, and I'll whine, if you will, until my account expires or something is changed. I won't come up with a creative way to insult you, for fear of getting another three day ban, so consider yourself fortunate.

Tatate
12-14-2007, 09:06 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><span style="color: #00ccff;">I have yet to see anyone run......does that make it clearer or would you like me to make something up to support my position?</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ccff;"> <b>Or would you like to explain what is the point of people running so as not to gain xp? What are they doing? Can't kill anything, can't PvP....are all the sad twinkers crafting now or something?</b></span></p></blockquote>/pwnt tbh

Tatate
12-14-2007, 09:11 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><span style="color: #00ccff;">Avanar ~ It amazes me that you just can't quite grasp the<b> fact</b> that <b>you</b> <b>were infact the carebear with your <i>playstyle</i></b>. Good luck to you in real life</span>.</blockquote><p>Another point goes to Wanderingwilly.</p><p>TBH (About Wanderingwilly's other post) you just can't argue about people 'running' from PvP. What are they going to do, have staring contests? Start comparing their "ub3r l33tz0r 'I really shouldn't have all this gear' gear? Or see who can make better items in the TSIs?</p>

bangbangshang
12-14-2007, 09:27 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><span style="color: #00ccff;">I have yet to see anyone run......does that make it clearer or would you like me to make something up to support my position?</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ccff;"> Or would you like to explain what is the point of people running so as not to gain xp? What are they doing? Can't kill anything, can't PvP....are all the sad twinkers crafting now or something?</span></p></blockquote><p>You are a liar.  I have played on this server since launch.  and through 3 new starting zones added and this frostfell stuff i have never seen CL, DLW so empty.  And yes, i have seen Q's just keep going right by me and i do the same.  I will not engage in pvp for no reason than to gain xp.</p><p>since the change i have seen 4 fights...FOUR!! the last one as i was in DLW today.  some Q's were killing a couple of freeps....i stood there and watched the freeps die without throwing in a heal.  why should i gain xp?  i'm too busy grinding out quests to be bothered by meaningless pvp.</p>

bangbangshang
12-14-2007, 09:32 PM
<cite>cklab wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>cklab wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Kind of ironic that people are telling us to adapt or leave, when people not adapting is the cause of this in the first place.</blockquote>Funny stuff. You should go on the road with that act. Or seriously consider becoming an Evangelic Preacher. Perhaps a politician. You have an innate talent to take the completely ridiculous and make it sound plausible.I'm serious.</blockquote>Should I adapt to the inane drivel you pass off as responses, too?My statement was completely true. New players couldn't adapt or level past T2, and people in the higher tiers couldn't adapt to the fact that people were enjoying PVP in the lower tiers. Whining ensued, and thus the nerf, to which I am now expected to adapt. But no, I've learned from you lot, and I'll whine, if you will, until my account expires or something is changed. I won't come up with a creative way to insult you, for fear of getting another three day ban, so consider yourself fortunate.</blockquote>/agree 100% 

Wildfury77
12-15-2007, 12:21 AM
<p><b><i>Nagafen</i></b> is no longer 1st/2nd busiest server ----> <b><u>Its in 4th place (and i suspect this will decline further)</u></b></p><p><b><i>Vox</i></b> has the lowest population load of all servers, and guess which server is currently 2nd bottom?? ---> <b><i>Venekor <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></i></b></p><p> (Based on creation of new character at 3 sample times 2hrs apart)</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><b><u>All those haters that campaigned to get rid of tier 2-5 PvP <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Gratz!!!!</u></b> </span>Welcome to tumbleweed! Only solution to get the regulars back is to undo the PvP XP change. A compromise would be to reduce the XP rewarded to 1%/kill maximum. I fear its too little too late, now know (personally) 27 people who have cancelled, none of whom had tier 2 locks (They had tier 3,4,5 locks). Sad times........</p>

Darman81
12-15-2007, 01:35 AM
<p>Im not attacking but I will direct this to Willy!</p><p>The original subject about PVP not engageing was written by me!</p><p>I have no reason to lie, I understand it changes nothing but over the last two days there is a large majority of people who are avoiding PVP in low tiers!</p><p>This is a fact on Nagafen!</p><p>Why you may ask! </p><p>I have a friend who has 6 AA's on a level 10 character. He has said he would rather run or die until he can max his AA's. </p><p>Think about it, I finish a quest which nets 2% adventure xp, it also gives me 8% AA!</p><p>Thats all fine and dandy until I kill someone and gain 6-8% adventure xp. I have just screwed myself out of my goal which is to maximize AA!</p><p>This is just an example but with the current system in place its pretty much how it works!</p><p>Never been to venekor but on Nagafen there are a lot of people with T2 and T3 twinks who are in no hurry to level out of their gear.</p><p>Those who are allready twinks are avoiding the xp in hopes of SOE coming to their senses and decreasing the hit you take for killing someone!</p><p>New players will have an easy go to T4, I just hope they dont get bored!</p>

rvc
12-15-2007, 02:30 AM
   I can only speak for myself but i avoid pvp while im maxxing the aa for the lvl im at.  Once ive got it yeah ive got room for 4 or 5 pvp kills to ding my next lvl.  Then i go back to avoiding pvp again till i get the next AA, so sure pvp isnt dead but as for me its seriously cut back on how often i put myself out there for pvp.  Yeah sure just lvl to 80 and you can get all the aa you want.  Sure i can lvl to 80 with little to no aa and be everyones whipping doll while i work on AA, but uh that sounds like just about as much fun as getting owned by T2 twinks, least i could outlevel that.

kissmi
12-15-2007, 04:33 AM
This should have been done a long time ago. I love playing on a PVP server as leveling is more of a challenge having to watch your back all the time. It is ridiculous to start a new toon 4 months later and running across the same pvp'er that you saw with your original toon and he is still at the same level....Thats what this is about. Also they should make a change in PVP... Player vs Player, not players versus player...Maybe they should have just made it that the first player that attacks you gets locked with you and no one else can attack you until that encounter is over. That would stop ganking where you are killed in 3 seconds by 4 or 5 on 1 and have no chance. You have new people coming up that are not your equal yet and they keep getting every piece of silver taken from them by lockers that have been at the same level for months. That doesn't seem fair, so SOE tries to fix it, and here come the whiners....They level lockers ruined it themselves. Not sony.

ulleulle
12-15-2007, 05:08 AM
Greetings..A few words on my selfI play a 71 brigand going for 80And i play a 45 warlock that is locked.Also got a 70 zerker and the  rest scattered around in the lower tiers for pve farming and really casual pvp when i need a brake from either the pvp on my warlock or the questing/xping/pvp on my brigand.After Reading alomst every post on the subject of xp gain from pvp, i have some pet griefs of my own.Under the current system you will [Removed for Content] yourself if you do to much pvp on a pvp srv.common knowledge by nowIt has become harder to maintain small guilds with both casual and semi hard core players if you want to pvp together "due to restrictions on lvl range in zones. we all know how running in groups with mixed lvl is a pain in the old behind if you are looking for a fight.If nothing changes new players will have to lvl up with a some what small amount of pvp experience,atleast untill they have enough AA and the pvp xp has really started to slow down..At the current rate i would say around t5 give or take  if you want to do some pure pvp sessions for a longer  period of time.But then you still have to keep in the back of your mind that maybe to much pvp on a pvp srv is a bad idea and then go back to questing again so you dont lvl away from your current  pve enviroment.When a new player has been fighting up the tiers against pve equipped/specced players the chock of running into the "real pvp" will be a lesson that will not be forgotton on the player.. and better yet lets say the player has made a class that does not suit him/her afterall.then what does he/she do..Start all over again from scratch with a new toon and spent the next 6 months getting back upthere if you want all the trimmings and details in place for a good pvp toon.What is hardest..making a lvl 80 with all the good stuff or making a lock at the earlier tiers with all its good stuff ??What do you think will sell best to a new player..Come play the game for a exstensive amount of time so you can be in t8..Or come play for a month and you are rdy to go..and then you still have the option to go to t8 with another of your toons while you play with your lower lvl and thus having fun doing what we all are here to do ..PVPAlso by playing a 71 brigand in full eof pvp gear i know for a fact how brutal end pvp is..if you dont have that much pvp experience you will be destroyed again and again and again untill you quit due to being one shotted by a handfull of diff classes instead of just the usual classes in lower tiers.Or your learn the robes and eventually will be able to defend yourself.. just like in the lower tiers,,same deal same resultAnd up here people wont let you go as a sign of good sportsmanship if they know you are weak..no sir up here you will be killed asap due to tokens being so important..And for the exiles that dont need tokens, they hate the normal factions so dont count on any love there either <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" />Some of the arguments for the fix focuses on protecting people from being destoyed and/or humiliated by the enemy. E.A Tea-bag and getting one shotted.Tea bagging is a community thing,it just reflects how peoples mindset are these days,and thus has nothing to do with sony,unless you want to nerf pressing sit repetively <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" />The one shotting is on the other hand something  soe should  fix,Im guessing for the more seassoned players in here it will take you 5 min to tell a dev what spells/ca AA lines  are  causing the problems here.What happens now when you get tired with your t8 toon.I know if it wasent for the fact that i could play in a diffrent tier on my other toons i would have gone utterly mad if i was forced to find the bulk of my pvp in the old kos zones.Ofc that argument is not as valid as it used to be..but low and behold i know i cant stand to play my brigand all the time..and you can bet your sweet behind i wont lvl up a new toon to t8 just to switch from one t8 toon to another if i want some pvp.that is Due to it is impossible to have two well geared toons in t8 for me..way to much time and effort and plat goes into to just one high lvl toon if i want to dance with the big boys and get my share of the upper pvp..I promissed myself not to write anything bad about soe in this post, but it boggles my mind that instead of fixing some spells/ca and maybe making it impossible to get AA end abilities before a pre set lvl,scaling of nightmare mounts E.T.C they removed a play style that they themself have created by the high faction cost for pvp rewards.An might i add a playstyle that was very friendly to guilds made up by  players that dosent always play at the same time all the timeSome argue that there was so much pvp in the beginning that the cost for pvp gear was in balance,then why havent it been lowered accordingley to the declining pvp at present.Also Why implement the AA run at t2 already unless you want to have people locking to max out AA .Maybe on a pve srv people dont bother with maxing out AA in t2 t3 and hence soe never thought that it would matter.But on pvp srv people will sell their grandmothers for abit of extra AA <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" />It just seems to me that if you where creative and resourcefull there are so many ways of trying to get around the twinks that apparently are killing people on a pvp server..I could prolly go on with some more but tbh i willl w8 my time and see if soe does something to actually help their paying customers instead of throwing alot of them out in hopes of new will come and take their place.. 'I doubt this is soe's official statement" but never the lessVery very bad marketing decision imho,,And for the people who laughs and relish in soe's decision to 'punish' people for pvping just remember who made the rules that the players where playing by to begin with ..who is in charge here and who is responsible for alot of unhappy customers.Think about it..some say thanks to soe for a good and finally needed fix.But what about all the people that are complaining and have good reasons to do so.ALOT of people got unfairly butchered so a few people cant use their toons that sony created for them by allowing gear AA mounts, crazy unballanced spells or CA and what not in low tiers..What about all those casual people that got shafted now and cant get a decent pvp group going until some time in 3 months if they are lucky..Some  say that you can still pvp,, yeah but on what ?? a toon in mc with a mix of a1-a3  and some fillings against a toon in exact same gear ...Might aswell play tekken or chess ..Last but not least..I cant on gods green earth get my devil side up and going like some of the people inhere can over other peoples down fall,It boggles my mind that the moderators allow such laguage. some normal customers could come in here to see what the fuzz is about and start reading comments that his 2 year old kid might aswell have posted <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" />Regards jabib aka smoq. "hoping for some balance to sort this little incident out"P.S this is my second post on forum so be gentle with comments on my Forum skills <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" />Eng is not my native so bad spelling and gramma will cost you nothing

rvc
12-15-2007, 05:43 AM
<p>Ok,  the everyone opposed to this change is a whiner,  is getting old.  </p><p>    Whining is what brought to Sonys attention that perhaps thier is a problem,  Whining is the number one reason for every nerf to pvp to date.  Rather than try and get input from the player base that wasnt posting constantly whining how they were getting ganked.  Sony decided to appease the whiner,  now ive got the whiners telling me im whining because i dont like the change.  Hell whinings the number one reason for any change to pvp, from nerfs to this most recent change. Perhaps look at it another way this is my opinion.  You dont have to like it and It really doesnt bother me much you dont.</p><p>  I can understand your viewpoint you didnt like getting ganked in tier 2, hey at least you had the option to level out of it, now the folks that dont like getting ganked in T2 can spend another 5 mos worth of subscription money to Sony and find out they dont like getting ganked in T8 eighther.</p><p>  Im sure the plat farmers love this change.  </p><p>In your opinion hard core pvp is t8 in my opinion hard core pvp wasnt racing to the end it was farming nodes, nameds, buying the best gear, masters i could afford and doing my best to be competitive at every level in a game thats gear, spell, AA  based, you need gear and AA or overwhelming numbers in this game to win most pvp fights period thats the game mechanic.  If you dont gear up everyones gonna look like a twink.  If you do gear up and grind some aa youll be putting yourself on equal footing and the supposed twinks wont be twinks anymore, everyone had that option before.   Now you kinda dont unless you just dont pvp and grind aa till your lvl 80 so youll be competitive at that lvl.  </p><p>   To the folks that were for this change have fun when ya hit T8 and the real ganking starts.  T8 with little to no AA relative to the folks that sat at T7 grinding it out and are grinding it out now at T8 waiting for you to get there.   </p>

ladyvengeance
12-15-2007, 06:35 AM
<cite>rvc wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Ok,  the everyone opposed to this change is a whiner,  is getting old.  </p><p>    Whining is what brought to Sonys attention that perhaps thier is a problem,  Whining is the number one reason for every nerf to pvp to date.  Rather than try and get input from the player base that wasnt posting constantly whining how they were getting ganked.  Sony decided to appease the whiner,  now ive got the whiners telling me im whining because i dont like the change.  Hell whinings the number one reason for any change to pvp, from nerfs to this most recent change. Perhaps look at it another way this is my opinion.  You dont have to like it and It really doesnt bother me much you dont.</p></blockquote>Well said. I'll say it again: Whining is what caused this stupid change. Therefore, whining might change it back. Don't expect us to stay quiet on this issue. We will all keep posting about how idiotic and illogical this change is until our accounts run out or SOE changes it back the way it was.

Fluffypaws
12-15-2007, 07:20 AM
well, it's pretty simple, why not give AA xp everytime u gain a lvl? for example, 50% AA xp each adventure lvl so at lvl 80 if u do nothing but lvl up u'd have 40 AA, Discuss.

ckl
12-15-2007, 09:03 AM
What, you mean you think gaining a level is an achievement? Hehe, these days it's forced on you.Would be nice though to get 50% AA xp as you leveled.

Amphibia
12-15-2007, 09:16 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><b><i>Nagafen</i></b> is no longer 1st/2nd busiest server ----> <b><u>Its in 4th place (and i suspect this will decline further)</u></b></p><p><b><i>Vox</i></b> has the lowest population load of all servers, and guess which server is currently 2nd bottom?? ---> <b><i>Venekor <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /></i></b></p><p> (Based on creation of new character at 3 sample times 2hrs apart)</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><b><u>All those haters that campaigned to get rid of tier 2-5 PvP <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /> Gratz!!!!</u></b> </span>Welcome to tumbleweed! Only solution to get the regulars back is to undo the PvP XP change. A compromise would be to reduce the XP rewarded to 1%/kill maximum. I fear its too little too late, now know (personally) 27 people who have cancelled, none of whom had tier 2 locks (They had tier 3,4,5 locks). Sad times........</p></blockquote>That's strange. I didn't notice any difference at all. It's still as busy as ever in T8. I guess that's where it's at now.... <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

ckl
12-15-2007, 09:51 AM
<cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><b><i>Nagafen</i></b> is no longer 1st/2nd busiest server ----> <b><u>Its in 4th place (and i suspect this will decline further)</u></b></p><p><b><i>Vox</i></b> has the lowest population load of all servers, and guess which server is currently 2nd bottom?? ---> <b><i>Venekor <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />"></i></b></p><p> (Based on creation of new character at 3 sample times 2hrs apart)</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><b><u>All those haters that campaigned to get rid of tier 2-5 PvP <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />"> Gratz!!!!</u></b> </span>Welcome to tumbleweed! Only solution to get the regulars back is to undo the PvP XP change. A compromise would be to reduce the XP rewarded to 1%/kill maximum. I fear its too little too late, now know (personally) 27 people who have cancelled, none of whom had tier 2 locks (They had tier 3,4,5 locks). Sad times........</p></blockquote>That's strange. I didn't notice any difference at all. It's still as busy as ever in T8. I guess that's where it's at now.... <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote><p>T2-T5 != T8.</p><p>"as ever" for T8 has been, what, a whole month? That's a really good comparison to make, don't you know.</p>

Roald
12-15-2007, 10:29 AM
<cite>cklab wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></cite><cite><blockquote><cite>cklab wrote:</cite><blockquote>"> <p>Shh... level lockers only kill newbies, remember?</p><p>Magically I'm able to grief them repeatedly on my level 40 dirge.</p></blockquote><u><span style="font-size: x-small;">I'm glad you admit that.</span></u></blockquote><p>Oh wow. Yeah man, my dirge really is able to kill level 10 people right off newb island. <u><span style="font-size: x-small;">I'm glad you missed the obvious sarcasm</span></u>, as indicated by the /sarcasmoff you omitted. </p></cite><p><cite></cite></p></blockquote>lol.

Fluffypaws
12-15-2007, 10:35 AM
well it would encourage people to pvp and not run, i mean imagine someone who only pvp's lol how many AA's they will get later lvls

Rutaq
12-15-2007, 11:29 AM
<cite>rvc wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Ok,  the everyone opposed to this change is a whiner,  is getting old.  </p><p>    Whining is what brought to Sonys attention that perhaps thier is a problem,  Whining is the number one reason for every nerf to pvp to date.  Rather than try and get input from the player base that wasnt posting constantly whining how they were getting ganked.  Sony decided to appease the whiner,  now ive got the whiners telling me im whining because i dont like the change.  Hell whinings the number one reason for any change to pvp, from nerfs to this most recent change. Perhaps look at it another way this is my opinion.  You dont have to like it and It really doesnt bother me much you dont.</p><p>  I can understand your viewpoint you didnt like getting ganked in tier 2, hey at least you had the option to level out of it, now the folks that dont like getting ganked in T2 can spend another 5 mos worth of subscription money to Sony and find out they dont like getting ganked in T8 eighther.</p><p>  Im sure the plat farmers love this change.  </p><p>In your opinion hard core pvp is t8 in my opinion hard core pvp wasnt racing to the end it was farming nodes, nameds, buying the best gear, masters i could afford and doing my best to be competitive at every level in a game thats gear, spell, AA  based, you need gear and AA or overwhelming numbers in this game to win most pvp fights period thats the game mechanic.  If you dont gear up everyones gonna look like a twink.  If you do gear up and grind some aa youll be putting yourself on equal footing and the supposed twinks wont be twinks anymore, everyone had that option before.   Now you kinda dont unless you just dont pvp and grind aa till your lvl 80 so youll be competitive at that lvl.  </p><p>   To the folks that were for this change have fun when ya hit T8 and the real ganking starts.  T8 with little to no AA relative to the folks that sat at T7 grinding it out and are grinding it out now at T8 waiting for you to get there.   </p></blockquote><p>Argument #1 :   Locking was not designed as a long term playstyle in EQ2.</p><p>I see the passion people have for their locked toons, but this is a level based MMO.  It should come as no surprise to anyone that your characters will level.  </p><p>  The entire business model is based on selling expansions and raising the game level limits as an incentive to keep subscribers playing until the next expansion is ready.   When the locking system was added it gave players a way to see all the content for their tier and in PvE after you have run through all the quests and all the dungeons you would naturally unlock and move to the next batch of quests and dungeons.    </p><p>   In PvP, locking created a unique environment that forced locking on ALL players if they wanted to compete and trivialized HUGE amounts of game content since the lockers had not intentions of leveling and it actually could discourage them from buying expansions because they were not interested in the new high level content.</p><p> Argument #2 :  Overpowered advantages are commonly nerfed why is locking any different ? </p><p>You enjoy making your perfect T2 toon but why should everyone else be forced to do the same when they are trying to play the game as it was designed without some HUGE PvP disadvantage ?</p><p> If locked characters could only attack other locked characters it would be a different story, but obviously that isn't the case.  Players have limited options:  </p><p>Lock and spend weeks twinking out your character to compete or ... </p><p> Rack up a huge death count with no chance any reasonable PvP competition.</p><p> Hide in an instance or some obscure corner of the world and grind your way out of T2 - T3 PvP.</p><p> or Group in huge numbers to complete solo quests to fend of twinks but this is of limited success when you encounter multiple twinks.</p><p>The defensive arguments reminds me of the days of Necro pwnage and all the players crying that if you want to compete you should roll a Necro.  Or how about the lame Hit and EVAC PvP where even if you wanted to fight back you couldn't unless you spent hours camping EVAC points.  All these quaint PvP styles had their hayday and were enjoyed by the people that adopted that playstyle. But the game was designed with limited playstyles in mind, sadly it can't be everything to everyone and SOE made a decision on which playstyles they endorse.</p><p><b>Like it or not, the current PvP xp rate may need some tweaking, but the fundamental idea of levelling, even in PvP, is sound.</b></p>

HerbertWalker
12-15-2007, 12:59 PM
<p>Don't change the thread title</p>

ckl
12-15-2007, 01:12 PM
<cite>Rutaq wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>rvc wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Ok,  the everyone opposed to this change is a whiner,  is getting old.  </p><p>    Whining is what brought to Sonys attention that perhaps thier is a problem,  Whining is the number one reason for every nerf to pvp to date.  Rather than try and get input from the player base that wasnt posting constantly whining how they were getting ganked.  Sony decided to appease the whiner,  now ive got the whiners telling me im whining because i dont like the change.  Hell whinings the number one reason for any change to pvp, from nerfs to this most recent change. Perhaps look at it another way this is my opinion.  You dont have to like it and It really doesnt bother me much you dont.</p><p>  I can understand your viewpoint you didnt like getting ganked in tier 2, hey at least you had the option to level out of it, now the folks that dont like getting ganked in T2 can spend another 5 mos worth of subscription money to Sony and find out they dont like getting ganked in T8 eighther.</p><p>  Im sure the plat farmers love this change.  </p><p>In your opinion hard core pvp is t8 in my opinion hard core pvp wasnt racing to the end it was farming nodes, nameds, buying the best gear, masters i could afford and doing my best to be competitive at every level in a game thats gear, spell, AA  based, you need gear and AA or overwhelming numbers in this game to win most pvp fights period thats the game mechanic.  If you dont gear up everyones gonna look like a twink.  If you do gear up and grind some aa youll be putting yourself on equal footing and the supposed twinks wont be twinks anymore, everyone had that option before.   Now you kinda dont unless you just dont pvp and grind aa till your lvl 80 so youll be competitive at that lvl.  </p><p>   To the folks that were for this change have fun when ya hit T8 and the real ganking starts.  T8 with little to no AA relative to the folks that sat at T7 grinding it out and are grinding it out now at T8 waiting for you to get there.   </p></blockquote><p>Argument #1 :   Locking was not designed as a long term playstyle in EQ2.</p><p>I see the passion people have for their locked toons, but this is a level based MMO.  It should come as no surprise to anyone that your characters will level.  </p><p>  The entire business model is based on selling expansions and raising the game level limits as an incentive to keep subscribers playing until the next expansion is ready.   When the locking system was added it gave players a way to see all the content for their tier and in PvE after you have run through all the quests and all the dungeons you would naturally unlock and move to the next batch of quests and dungeons.    </p><p>   In PvP, locking created a unique environment that forced locking on ALL players if they wanted to compete and trivialized HUGE amounts of game content since the lockers had not intentions of leveling and it actually could discourage them from buying expansions because they were not interested in the new high level content.</p><p> Argument #2 :  Overpowered advantages are commonly nerfed why is locking any different ? </p><p>You enjoy making your perfect T2 toon but why should everyone else be forced to do the same when they are trying to play the game as it was designed without some HUGE PvP disadvantage ?</p><p> If locked characters could only attack other locked characters it would be a different story, but obviously that isn't the case.  Players have limited options:  </p><p>Lock and spend weeks twinking out your character to compete or ... </p><p> Rack up a huge death count with no chance any reasonable PvP competition.</p><p> Hide in an instance or some obscure corner of the world and grind your way out of T2 - T3 PvP.</p><p> or Group in huge numbers to complete solo quests to fend of twinks but this is of limited success when you encounter multiple twinks.</p><p>The defensive arguments reminds me of the days of Necro pwnage and all the players crying that if you want to compete you should roll a Necro.  Or how about the lame Hit and EVAC PvP where even if you wanted to fight back you couldn't unless you spent hours camping EVAC points.  All these quaint PvP styles had their hayday and were enjoyed by the people that adopted that playstyle. But the game was designed with limited playstyles in mind, sadly it can't be everything to everyone and SOE made a decision on which playstyles they endorse.</p><p><b>Like it or not, the current PvP xp rate may need some tweaking, but the fundamental idea of levelling, even in PvP, is sound.</b></p></blockquote>To your Argument #1: I don't think exile as a third faction was ever intended, so let's go ahead and change that, too. On the expansions, they had a brilliant idea with RoK: the T2 treasured items that were much better than any other T2 items. I had to go out and buy the expansion for my level 17 to stay competitive. The same would be the case with any expansion and for every tier, assuming, unlike RoK, all tiers are accounted for. There was plenty of reason for level lockers to buy expansions.To Argument #2: Ok, so let's nerf raid gear at endgame, and below, too. Put solo rewards and crafted items on an equal footing.There have been plenty of players on these forums who've said they weren't discouraged by being killed by twinks, but used it as motivation to twink themselves. If nothing else, it should have been motivation for them to either level higher or group with a few others to increase their safety.

rvc
12-15-2007, 05:49 PM
<p>In Reply to Argument 2:  You make it sound like people joined a PVP server to primarily PVE, perhaps those people need to go to a PVE server.  Me I joined to primarily PVP and do it competitively, with a bit of PVE tossed in when its not high time. </p><p>  Its sad that folks werent able to understand how the game mechanics work, get some gear get some aa your good to go, 10-22aa your were in good shape in lower tiers, toss on some mastercrafted the best [Removed for Content] gear in the game now.   That anyone can make  within an hr or two of TSing an alt,  create another alt for making your adept 3.  Minimal time investment to pvp in sony eq 2 and compete.   Now were looking at months and months of grinding,  farming and PVEing for aa all to be competive at T8.  Used to be the casual player could join our server and compete with minimal effort, now its a grindfest, not much different from the PVE servers i loath.</p><p>     I keep hearing its a level based game, thats its intention.   Ive got news for you the lock didnt happen magically Sony put that there, and yeah Sony took it away when the Waaa factor got too loud.  </p><p>   This is also a RPG, Now i dont know about you but the great role playing games ive played in the past were about freedom and the ability to choose your path,  in fact most companies when creating RPG try to give thier players multiple paths to take. </p><p>I find it amusing people say it was never supposed to be this way or designed to be this way, your right it was designed to be a PVE game so if thats what your into go to a PVE server and PVE to your hearts content.  When sony made this game a PVP game they in essence created a different game,  and bringing over the PVE mentality to it just doenst work for a large portion of us that joined to PVP.  </p><p>   Simply because you get owned doesnt necessarily mean a twink did it 80 pct of the time it was probably a newb that,  had an epiphany and realized that to compete in this game he needed gear and aa to do it.  For the folks that couldnt figure it out, heads up gear, aa gonna be just as important T8 as it is now.  Heh, heh its gonna be funny seeing the folks that were for this whining when they start dropping pvp armor tokens..........new T8 gets rolled woot token, invite steve now, gank woot nother token, hey invite dave now, gank woot nother token.  Rofl you thought T2 was bad.</p>

bangbangshang
12-15-2007, 07:07 PM
<p>Why not open cross faction lines of communication.  I'd like to be able to exchange pleasantries with the freeps that pass by on their way to quest.</p>

Rutaq
12-15-2007, 07:19 PM
<p>RVC ,  I understand you want competitive PvP but you are being a bit misleading about the little amount of PvE you do.   Heck you did a whole lot more PvE than most new players since you locked your xp and quested until you max your AAs, not to mention all the harvesting and crafting time.  It seems like you are ok with PvE as long as it gives you big advantage but once you have the advantage you want to retire to the green pastures of T2 PvP.</p><p>Don't be so quick to retire,  broken systems always have a way of getting fixed. </p><p>Remember the fun of Mentoring in PvP , it was great seeing T6 characters duo'ing with their T2 buddies and wiping out dozens of players without breaking a sweat.</p><p>Remember the the fun of the "I escape button" EVACs in PvP, it was great, jump someone from stealth and range and if the put up any kinda fight you could zip away to safety and then sneak back and try again.</p><p>Remember the cluster ganking on the docks,  it was great fun to nuke the crap out of people on slow computers that hadn't finished zoning in.</p><p>EQ2 has a history of correcting obviously overpowered playstyles and now level locking has been added to the list.   You can still lock and twink but now it is much harder to get the perfect character and the bonus you gain for twinking have a limited duration when used in PvP.</p>

rvc
12-15-2007, 07:40 PM
   You know a great fix for all this would have been just to not allow titled players to attack players with no titles.  Sure a not titled can attack another non titled, or titled player if they choose.  Hell even if anyone higher than hunter cant attack hunter or lower title i could have lived with a change like that, by the time your a slayer you should have a fairly good grasp of what pvp is and be fairly well geared.  And hey if you wanna just pve in tier 2 dont go over hunter title.

Spider
12-15-2007, 08:47 PM
<p>A lot of people slinging the word 'lock' which has nothing to do with the change at all.  </p><p>Locking is keeping your PvE combat xp gain off.  You can still TWINK and AA max.  There will still be across all tiers, pvp TWINKS, even especially in T2.  With the xp change, a T8 player gearing out a T2 twink will just cost less.</p><p>So lets stop talking about locking being disabled, it hasnt changed at all.  It was, always has been and always will be a disabling of pve combat xp gain just like it was when EQ1 launched.  </p><p>All the change has done is blocked new toons/new players from any hope of attaining the splendid pvp gear.  You can no longer reach the faction requirements on new toons before you reach the higher tiers because pvp killing is the only way to get that gear and its just not worth it now.</p><p>Logically this change screws new players.  If they get into any amount of pvp, even with others of the same pvp experience, they will almost instantly out level their spells/combat arts and gear.  The new player will quickly find themselves getting tore up by non-twinks even more because higher players will be hunting green cons and grays who step into zones with that size of a pvp range.  </p><p>There was once a balance that allowed you to lvl at a certain pace while expecting some gear drops and adept drops.  PvP xp gain more than quadruples the leveling speed without offering any form of gear/spell/combat art rewards.</p><p>Raid guilds over time can expect to have waste more time helping new guild members get aa and BASIC tier gear.</p>

Devilsbane
12-15-2007, 09:26 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>Nor did I ever seen aa for sale on the broker.</blockquote>I have since day one. The can be found under the term 'Collectables'.

Nyven
12-15-2007, 09:53 PM
<p>So today I just harvested for about an hour or two in EL.</p><p>I had a blue con, and later on a yellow con (defiler, a class that destroys me in pvp when decently), both titled, run right by me and not attack.</p><p>I had an even con start harvesting right alongside me without attacking.</p><p>I had a druid that would have put up a good fight come up to me, /smile and offer me a port through petnames.  When I said no he just continued fighting mobs.</p><p>I'm not saying anything about this, its just some observations.  Take it as you will.</p>

convict
12-15-2007, 10:26 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>So today I just harvested for about an hour or two in EL.</p><p>I had a blue con, and later on a yellow con (defiler, a class that destroys me in pvp when decently), both titled, run right by me and not attack.</p><p>I had an even con start harvesting right alongside me without attacking.</p><p>I had a druid that would have put up a good fight come up to me, /smile and offer me a port through petnames.  When I said no he just continued fighting mobs.</p><p>I'm not saying anything about this, its just some observations.  Take it as you will.</p></blockquote>I've found plenty of pvp.. A few groups, not ot mention, thier still coming in the caves to kill from the second floor, difference is, thier getting xp now..I've had good luck fighting people, and getting jumped..

Nyven
12-15-2007, 11:23 PM
<p>Yeah I'm not saying other people aren't, I did get attacked once while I was out there.  Just saying I noticed a couple people don't bother to fight now.  For all I know that could have been the far extreme of it, but there are at least a couple out there who are actively choosing not to engage out in the open when they come across the opposing faction.</p><p>I won't lie either, I didn't bother attacking any of them.  I have a lot that I want to get done around my level range and I just don't want the experience right now to level me past it.  Thats just how I feel in my current tier.  However if fame was on the line I would have fought.  I feel outside of getting fame, right now and at my level, there is no incentive to pvp.  Except for the defiler, I would have blown away most those people.  Just wasn't worth it.</p>

rvc
12-16-2007, 12:44 AM
Hey Rhap, you forty, and your gang used to hunt me down all the time i miss those days.  I always had a good time trying to catch one of you out alone and hope Id win one, no sarcasm intended,  miss seeing Forty around he was prob one of the coolest nemisis i had.  Pugi. 

rvc
12-16-2007, 04:26 AM
Wow some serious gimped down players been showing up in T3, worse than the bots wed all farm, =(.

Roald
12-16-2007, 08:36 AM
Im managing to find multiple fights daily at level 66.

Nyven
12-16-2007, 02:54 PM
Yeah I don't think people would care about the experience from pvp at lvl 66, I know I wouldn't.  Doesn't surprise me that there isn't a problem at that level.  It's the lower and mid tiers where I've been noticing a few issues now.

Roald
12-16-2007, 04:57 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yeah I don't think people would care about the experience from pvp at lvl 66, I know I wouldn't.  Doesn't surprise me that there isn't a problem at that level.  It's the lower and mid tiers where I've been noticing a few issues now.</blockquote>Yeah I don't think people care about the lower and mid tiers, I know I wouldn't. Doesn't surprise me that there is a problem at those levels. Its the higher tiers that haven't seen any issues.

Leafa
12-16-2007, 07:57 PM
My main and long playing experience has been on the Bazaar server as Leafa in Knights of Nee.  When I began playing EQ2, I was working an average of sixty hours a week, but the game intrigued me, and I was hooked.  My main toon is still only a level 54 swash because I locked xp on a pve server.  I locked xp because I was late to get KoS and needed to catch up on aa points; my favorite guildie owned many businesses and had to periodically take time off of the game and it allowed me to level at the same pace; <i>it was my playing style a</i>nd I enjoyed it.  It took me a long time to wade into the crafting realm of EQ2, and just as I began to understand and appreciate the entire crafting <i>community</i>, it was nerfed and dumbed down.  The decision to dumb down crafting ignored a huge population of those whose playing style and preference was to seldom leave the tradeskill instance, and who took pride in elevating their trade skills rather than their battle prowess.  When the challenge was removed, much of my interest and motivation for crafting disappeared with it.After a couple years playing pve, I was persuaded to try pvp after a sister guild (Just a Flesh Wound) was formed here.  I was warned to expect to die often, but to focus on developing my toon carefully with priority attention given to maximizing my aa pts.  It was strange to start at the bottom of the totem pole.  I had no higher alt to subsidize my new toon, and as I've never bought anything, but have only utilized what I've gained in-game, it was initially a rough haul up.  Finally I reached level 10 and I was prepared (or haha, so I thought)!  I'd worked to set aside master spell scrolls and mastercrafted gear with adornments.  Then came the Big Ouch.  Level 10 and I was suddenly at the bottom of the food chain... but I died and took it like a fury and came back fighting and kicking.  After increasing aa and ever so slowly leveling up through questing, the day arrived when I fought back after being attacked by higher levels... and won.  The satisfaction of winning my first solitary battle was satisfying because I <i>worked</i> to get there.  Pvp was exciting because there was absolutely no safe place.  Every place was a potential battleground.  Since the update, I see people avoiding pvp as they work on quests to level up with a competitive level of corresponding achievement points gained.  Avoiding pvp?  On a pvp server?  What will happen when those challenged in delay gratification level up via pvp and find themselves pitted against those who are now 'twinked' (twinked = a carefully worked upon and crafted toon in all aspects of class, gear, spells and aa) at a higher level?  More complaints?  What will stop this from becoming wash, rinse and repeat?The xp gain for pvp with this update is far too extreme.  It makes absolutely no sense in light of the achievement points that are necessary to be truly competitive in pvp battle.  When you remove the <i>challenge</i> to work at a carefully crafted balanced and competitive toon, expect interest and motivation for a pvp server to wane.  Sony, Please adjust this update.  Tai dou le.  The spelling might not be exact, but the meaning is.  <i>Too much</i>.

Echgar
12-16-2007, 10:21 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yeah I don't think people would care about the experience from pvp at lvl 66, I know I wouldn't.  Doesn't surprise me that there isn't a problem at that level.  It's the lower and mid tiers where I've been noticing a few issues now.</blockquote>Yeah I don't think people care about the lower and mid tiers, I know I wouldn't. Doesn't surprise me that there is a problem at those levels. Its the higher tiers that haven't seen any issues.</blockquote>Unless I'm missing something, it sounds as if you two may be having a difference of opinion.  If this is the case, I suggest you agree to disagree and move on.  Quoting each other to say the opposite thing will only lead to bad things. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />Clearly by the posts in this thread there are varied feelings about the change as well as things that you feel could/should be done to make it better.  You are welcome to disagree with others, but let's please keep it civil.