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View Full Version : How does PvP xp eliminate the twinks?


Dojac
12-11-2007, 01:42 AM
I'd like to preface this by stating this is not a discussion about the merits of unlocking PvP xp as a whole but it is a discussion on the effectiveness of unlocking PvP xp to combat t2 twinks.  (Also this is not a discussion about the merit of T2 twinking)So first of lets be flat out honest about this.  This proposed change to the lvl locking system has one goal and one goal alone, to knock out the t2 twinkers.  I just don't see how effective this can be.  Maxing your AA is no problem what so ever.  Anyone can max it by barely doing a quest, all it takes is a buddy with a relatively high lvl toon.  So this is not going to solve the issue of twinks having massive amounts of AA relative to the newbies.  Provided that you don't quest much to get this AA all of a twink's xp is going to be based on PvP kills.  How much actual xp do you get off a PvP kill?  For the sake of argument lets say its .25% (which is a fairly high estimate IMO.  At this rate 1 lvl roughly equals 400 kills.  Say a twink locks at 14 and lvls to 18 through PvP alone, 1,600 kills.  On top of that the xp you receive is decreased as the size of your group increases.  I'm struggling to see the effectiveness of this change.  T2 twinks don't go away, they just have to start pvping earlier.  The AA difference doesn't go away.  This system makes grouping and ganking more appealing.  I mean the biggest change I see here is the need for larger groups.  This doesn't eliminate the twinks, it doesn't remove their aa/gear advantage and it drives them to run in the largest group they can.  How is the goal accomplished?

Snowlywhite
12-11-2007, 01:45 AM
an even con mob gives 3% or so xp in t2, so... I'd say either aa or pvp

Dojac
12-11-2007, 02:08 AM
A full 3% really?  I haven't been unlocked in T2 for so long I can't remember (I am going to 80 locked I'm not sitting in T2) well that makes the system more effective....Until you start running with a raidx4.  K so the PvP xp vs. lvl point is moot.  But this strengthens the drive for people to make the largest groups possible to PvP.

BWLeeEllison
12-11-2007, 02:28 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'd like to preface this by stating this is not a discussion about the merits of unlocking PvP xp as a whole but it is a discussion on the effectiveness of unlocking PvP xp to combat t2 twinks.  (Also this is not a discussion about the merit of T2 twinking)So first of lets be flat out honest about this.  This proposed change to the lvl locking system has one goal and one goal alone, to knock out the t2 twinkers.  I just don't see how effective this can be.  Maxing your AA is no problem what so ever.  Anyone can max it by barely doing a quest, all it takes is a buddy with a relatively high lvl toon.  So this is not going to solve the issue of twinks having massive amounts of AA relative to the newbies.  Provided that you don't quest much to get this AA all of a twink's xp is going to be based on PvP kills.  How much actual xp do you get off a PvP kill?  For the sake of argument lets say its .25% (which is a fairly high estimate IMO.  At this rate 1 lvl roughly equals 400 kills.  Say a twink locks at 14 and lvls to 18 through PvP alone, 1,600 kills.  On top of that the xp you receive is decreased as the size of your group increases.  I'm struggling to see the effectiveness of this change.  T2 twinks don't go away, they just have to start pvping earlier.  The AA difference doesn't go away.  This system makes grouping and ganking more appealing.  I mean the biggest change I see here is the need for larger groups.  This doesn't eliminate the twinks, it doesn't remove their aa/gear advantage and it drives them to run in the largest group they can.  How is the goal accomplished?</blockquote><p>The effectiveness of the change lies in the fact that they will eventually be forced to exp their way out of being twinks.  They will, in fact, presuming all they do is gank, become victims at a rather rapid pace, as they out level their gear, as they bypass quests that could have given them <b>Achievement Points</b>, and as their skills rapidly fall back to apprentice level.  When someone hits level 18, they are subject to attack by T3 MCd toons in Ant and CL, and if they are caught grouping up in large numbers to try to gank soloists in TS or Nek, they will be subjected to attacks from ppl who have new master choices as well.  T2 twinks are gone with the change, fact.</p><p>This change has other nice ramifications.  Tradeskillers come to mind.  People will now have to buy gear, spells, and CAs to keep up with their levelling.</p>

Snosael
12-11-2007, 05:10 AM
<p>T2 twinks are twinks for the same reason that T7 twinks (or 'raiders' as they might want to think of themselves).  Twinks none the less.  That reason is that this game is about LOOT.  Everywhere u go there is some kind of loot that is better.  What is it there for if not to use to your advantage?  everyone at ever tier does it.  The T7s think they are somehow not the same as the T2s.  They are wrong, they just wanna play in another zone.   Nothing is wrong with that.  What is wrong is to say that low lvl players should all be wearing the same gear, have no options to better there char, and worst of all be forced to move into areas they dont wanna go.</p><p>This change WILL force twinks and none twinks, esp those in T2 to lvl up whether they want to or not.  Twinks will still be twinks, thats how they play.  This change will only force them to grind, and farm even more to afford twinkage.  And they will all resent that.  That resentment most likely will  end up in more ganking, tea-bagging and the like.  plus an even greater desire NOT to play with the whining T7s who just want a fresh batch of FORCED newbies to level into thier range so they can gank with their uber raid gear they have been collecting for months and years longer that those of us who have been playing where we want to quite happily.  </p><p> The real problem is true new chars that may need some extra protection from the harsh reality of pvp.  Likely they came here just for that reason.  If they need a little more familiarization with the game b4 they are forced into it at lvl 10, then offer them something that effects JUST them.  Dont ruin one of the most popular pvp communities.</p>

voxranger
12-11-2007, 09:42 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'd like to preface this by stating this is not a discussion about the merits of unlocking PvP xp as a whole but it is a discussion on the effectiveness of unlocking PvP xp to combat t2 twinks.  (Also this is not a discussion about the merit of T2 twinking)So first of lets be flat out honest about this.  This proposed change to the lvl locking system has one goal and one goal alone, to knock out the t2 twinkers.  I just don't see how effective this can be.  Maxing your AA is no problem what so ever.  Anyone can max it by barely doing a quest, all it takes is a buddy with a relatively high lvl toon.  So this is not going to solve the issue of twinks having massive amounts of AA relative to the newbies.  Provided that you don't quest much to get this AA all of a twink's xp is going to be based on PvP kills.  How much actual xp do you get off a PvP kill?  For the sake of argument lets say its .25% (which is a fairly high estimate IMO.  At this rate 1 lvl roughly equals 400 kills.  Say a twink locks at 14 and lvls to 18 through PvP alone, 1,600 kills.  On top of that the xp you receive is decreased as the size of your group increases.  I'm struggling to see the effectiveness of this change.  T2 twinks don't go away, they just have to start pvping earlier.  The AA difference doesn't go away.  This system makes grouping and ganking more appealing.  I mean the biggest change I see here is the need for larger groups.  This doesn't eliminate the twinks, it doesn't remove their aa/gear advantage and it drives them to run in the largest group they can.  How is the goal accomplished?</blockquote><p>Your statement seems to imply that twinks are primarily focused on the aa component, and yes, twinking does help in this regard - if you plan on leveling once you have reached your aa limit for that tier. However, the majority of twinks are in it for the aa and the gear which combined serve no other purpose but to over power the majority of other low level players. How else do you explain a twink camping in t2 or t3 for months on end? </p>

Elephanton
12-11-2007, 09:46 AM
<p>At 25, killing 27 in a solo fight gives over 5% of adventure XP under vitality.I'd say on T2 one PVP kill would give you around 7-10% of adventure XP.</p>

Elephanton
12-11-2007, 09:50 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>This proposed change to the lvl locking system has one goal and one goal alone, to knock out the t2 twinkers.  I just don't see how effective this can be.</blockquote>It would be super effective imo. If you are fully twink and locked at 14 now, if you start killing after this change goes leave, you will hit T3 in 50 kills. Where you cannot harm newbs any longer.

Raidyen
12-11-2007, 12:13 PM
<p>Negative Effects.</p><p> 1.  People that want to AA up will now run from every pvp encounter, or just let themselves be killed in order to not gain exps.  Great way to remove pvp from a pvp server.</p><p>2.  The Gankers and Tweaks will still tweak up, out level thier gear, then start over a new class to continue ganking.  It takes at most 10 plat to full tweak just about any class in T2 including some M1's of a few key spells, and thats figuring high.  10 plat can be earned extremely quickly at T8, and to alot of people its worth the coin to be able to go out and take on 3 or 4 people at the same time.</p><p>3.  People that have friends that can't play as often will not be able to go pvp with thier characters while they wait for thier friends to catch up.  This directly effects me, as im sure it will many others.  While it matters little at T6+, i have 3 toons that are in T2 and T3 waiting for my friends to level.  They will now be unplayable unless my friends are on.</p><p>4.  The T2 whiners will continue to whine.  First it was AA's.  They put in a cap, not 3 hours after the patch went in, there were threads of whines again.  Second whine, Gear, the new sarnak stuff is better then anything you can buy right now and anyone can get it.  And yet they still whine.  Now they are forcing people to earn exps.  I would bet an Iphone that not 6 hours after that patch goes in we will be able to come to this forum and see some posts of people continuing to whine.  </p><p> Positive Effects.</p><p>.........</p><p> ACTUAL SOLUTION:  REMOVE GRIEFERS, NOT TWEAKERS</p><p>If someone kills you in pvp, they are unable to engage you again for 30 minutes.  You can engage them in which cases they can kill you again, or they can attack you if you engage someone in thier group, but if you are on thier recent list, they cannot touch you unless you start the fight.</p>

tequiero
12-11-2007, 12:32 PM
    Yeah ok  the people that re twink  and killign peopel over and over arent the MC gear they are the one that have fabel gear which dosent matter anymore cause of RoK, And the people that PVP in t2 that are twink at t2 just wanted the kill count for most part you know someone that is lock that has full fabel and been at that lvl  for over a months is not doing no freakign Quest  for aa, just pvping at that lvl and griffing people  wish is about 75% of the people that lock at that lvl and twink.  Also its really not about the twink  FFS there is twink at all the lvl's its about  the people that  scare away the new subcribers and dont let them enjoy the game. eq2 /SOE is about making money and when  they cant get new subcribers cause  dumb @$$es screw it up for them  what you think would happen. just fact of life

Tae
12-11-2007, 02:07 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote> ACTUAL SOLUTION:  REMOVE GRIEFERS, NOT TWEAKERS </blockquote>The actual solution is remove level locking altogether. You don't need low level faction gear because T2 flies by. You don't need faction full stop because it doesn't do anything at 80. There's nothing to "experience" after 30 days at level 20. All that T2 consists of is killing people over and over and over and over in a bizzare progressionless dance that really serves no purpose and hurts the game. Remove level locking and the issue is gone. Seriously unless you deliberately go out and grind your way up you're not going to be greying out many quests, you're going to be 100 achievement by 70, you're going to be well geared and you'll have seen all that the low level zones have to offer. Level locking really has no purpose whatsoever.

ckl
12-11-2007, 02:13 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote> ACTUAL SOLUTION:  REMOVE GRIEFERS, NOT TWEAKERS </blockquote>The actual solution is remove level locking altogether. You don't need low level faction gear because T2 flies by. You don't need faction full stop because it doesn't do anything at 80. There's nothing to "experience" after 30 days at level 20. All that T2 consists of is killing people over and over and over and over in a bizzare progressionless dance that really serves no purpose and hurts the game.Remove level locking and the issue is gone.</blockquote><p>I disagree. Removing level locking would get people to level to T8 eventually, sure, but players will always grief unless there are penalties for it: murder counts, item loss, skill loss, level loss, carnage flag, whatever. This is evidenced by the fact that there are T7-T8 players who will run by and one shot a grey who's exploring a zone, possibly for just the sake of seeing the high level zones and not for AA.</p><p>The day I'm forced to level to endgame against my will is the day I find a different game to play, probably DAOC yet again, assuming it hasn't completely died yet. I've done the endgame thing far too many times for any of it to feel anything but old, stale and suffocating. You might not think so, and good for you. I hope you enjoy your playstyle; please quit trying to nerf mine.</p><p>Edit: To your edit, neither does the endgame for me. More of the same ratrace for shiny gear and uninspiring gameplay if you ask me.</p>

Vaeine
12-11-2007, 02:23 PM
<p>I see a simple solution to the level lock issue that would help server populations. although before i give my 2 cents about the fix most people that are in favor of the level lock wont like it. </p><p>A simple fix or compremise would be to let the level lockers still be able to level lock since they did put time and effort in to these characters__if a character is level locked though they can only attack other level locked players. non locked players would become immune to those that are level locked.</p><p>I'm sure there will be an uproar about doing it this way since the idea behind the level lock is to become so overpowering compared to the average character that the chances of losing are small with little effort thus like some others have mentioned inflating there kill counts and egoes.</p><p>the simple reality is that new players do not have the resorces or player skill to even come close to beating the twinks and those of us that are not interested in the whole "cheat code" world of twinking would like to have the server populations grow faster than they are.</p>

tequiero
12-11-2007, 02:23 PM
<cite>cklab wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote> ACTUAL SOLUTION:  REMOVE GRIEFERS, NOT TWEAKERS </blockquote>The actual solution is remove level locking altogether. You don't need low level faction gear because T2 flies by. You don't need faction full stop because it doesn't do anything at 80. There's nothing to "experience" after 30 days at level 20. All that T2 consists of is killing people over and over and over and over in a bizzare progressionless dance that really serves no purpose and hurts the game.Remove level locking and the issue is gone.</blockquote><p>I disagree. Removing level locking would get people to level to T8 eventually, sure, but players will always grief unless there are penalties for it: murder counts, item loss, skill loss, level loss, carnage flag, whatever. This is evidenced by the fact that there <span style="font-size: x-small;color: #006633;">are T7-T8 players who will run by and one shot a grey who's exploring a zone, possibly for just the sake of seeing the high level zones and not for AA.</span></p><p>The day I'm forced to level to endgame against my will is the day I find a different game to play, probably DAOC yet again, assuming it hasn't completely died yet. I've done the endgame thing far too many times for any of it to feel anything but old, stale and suffocating. You might not think so, and good for you. I hope you enjoy your playstyle; please quit trying to nerf mine.</p><p>Edit: To your edit, neither does the endgame for me. More of the same ratrace for shiny gear and uninspiring gameplay if you ask me.</p></blockquote>Considers those players as mobs that will 1 shot you anyways, and second no one is forcing you if you want to pvp fine and dandy do it but dont use the excuse of i wan tto explore the zone i want to do quest i want to get aa.  and crying saying by gaing exp by pvpign i wont be abel to do so.  reason i say your motuh ( or words) is full of $ ith cause if you so freaking an @l about questign and gettign exp by questing ( only real reason to lock)  then do so and pvp while you doing it if you liek if not avoid it and do your quest, . Also let me guess wel lthen people will runway to finish questing  ( buch of crap the people that run  they will do so anyways that dosent change   even at t8 when a scout runs away from a mystic cause they see they are loosing   just cause they can do it or  run cause there evac is down , thats part of pvp if your class can get away with it more power to you if they cant you choose your class and if you did so cause obisly  you liek playing it for some reason

TheSpin
12-11-2007, 02:29 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>The actual solution is remove level locking altogether. You don't need low level faction gear because T2 flies by. You don't need faction full stop because it doesn't do anything at 80. There's nothing to "experience" after 30 days at level 20. All that T2 consists of is killing people over and over and over and over in a bizzare progressionless dance that really serves no purpose and hurts the game.Remove level locking and the issue is gone.Seriously unless you deliberately go out and grind your way up you're not going to be greying out many quests, you're going to be 100 achievement by 70, you're going to be well geared and you'll have seen all that the low level zones have to offer.Level locking really has no purpose whatsoever.</blockquote><p>From a purely PvE standpoint...locking is important for some people and for good reason.</p><p>I recently (post-RoK) made a new character.  I level locked from 10-20 so I could complete darklight and TD quest lines.  The following is a list of zones I more or less completely skipped to get to my current level of 60.  I have 84 AA so it's true that locking doesn't matter for AA, but it does matter for experiencing the most content possible.</p><p>Zones I skipped because I didn't lock:  (I might have done a quest or two in a zone, or just ran through for disco, but I would say I did less than 20% of what these zones have to offer)</p><p>Everything around Qeynos and freeport  (including the Commonlands and Antonica and the sewers, even the AQs)</p><p>Blackburrow</p><p>Wailing Caves</p><p>Nek forest</p><p>Thundering steppes</p><p>Zek</p><p>Runnyeye and Rivervale</p><p>Lavastorm (and all zones in it)</p><p>Everfrost (and all zones in it)</p><p>Clefts of Rujark</p><p>Mines of Meldrath</p><p>Klak'anon</p><p>I hope you can see from my long list of zones that there are plenty of reasons to level lock.  This isn't even including tome quests or other misc. quests that are in the game.  People have literally gotten up to my level without ever turning adventure exp on.</p>

tequiero
12-11-2007, 02:37 PM
<p>thats pve hon is diffrent plus if you really wanted to  "explore " the content you can always mentor down in pvp thats a whole you mosters, but you still can  "explore" all the constent if you liek if thats your thing but dont say  even lock you be abel to cause questing and such will  lvl you  past it anyways.</p>

BWLeeEllison
12-11-2007, 02:42 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote> ACTUAL SOLUTION:  REMOVE GRIEFERS, NOT TWEAKERS </blockquote>The actual solution is remove level locking altogether. You don't need low level faction gear because T2 flies by. You don't need faction full stop because it doesn't do anything at 80. There's nothing to "experience" after 30 days at level 20. All that T2 consists of is killing people over and over and over and over in a bizzare progressionless dance that really serves no purpose and hurts the game.Remove level locking and the issue is gone.Seriously unless you deliberately go out and grind your way up you're not going to be greying out many quests, you're going to be 100 achievement by 70, you're going to be well geared and you'll have seen all that the low level zones have to offer.Level locking really has no purpose whatsoever.</blockquote>You have to kill far too many adds and incidental mobs, especially while engaged in pvp, for that to be effective.  PvP exp forcing is the best solution.

Spider
12-11-2007, 02:49 PM
<p>The one thing that has made T2 pvp so unpleasant is the constant dying to the same opposition every time they can find you.  Twinks or not, if they have friends, they dont need to be twinked.  </p><p>Now, IF they get forced to swallow xp every time they kill you, they are going to STOP!  If your on someone's list are they going to keep attacking you?  If they do, you can be assured, they are getting xp for it with no other reward.</p><p>IF someone is on YOUR list, are you going to keep rolling on them?  Probably not as your going to get xp, too.  </p><p>This change will highly impact griefers from their constant ganking in the lower tiers of pvp with no impact on pvp at lvl 80.</p>

Raidyen
12-11-2007, 02:49 PM
<p>First off, anyone wanting to explore content can play on a PvE server.  The point of PvP is to PvP.  If you dont like getting killed, dont play here.  SoE is not doing this for subscriptions.  If they were, they would actually come up with real solutions, not this quick changes every two months that never FIX THE REAL PROBLEM, which is greifers.  I do have a serious problem with people spam killing you, which is a REAL problem over ALL levels, not just the handful of toons that are in there teens.</p><p>Here is what SoE has done over the last 6 months to help out those T2 players that cant figure out how to stay alive and come here to whine about it.</p><p>1.  AA cap - fixed nothing.  People still got owned.</p><p>2.  Remove Debt - fixed nothing.  People still got owned.</p><p>3.  Gave you [Removed for Content] quest gear in RoK - fixed nothing.  People still got owned.</p><p>4.  Add exp gain to pvp kills - will fix nothing, People will still get owned.</p><p> I see a pattern developing.</p><p>Where there are sheep for the slaughter, there will always be wolves.  </p><p>Personally i am for any changes that will help players enjoy the game more.  This is NOT one of those changes.</p>

Raidyen
12-11-2007, 02:59 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>The one thing that has made T2 pvp so unpleasant is the constant dying to the same opposition every time they can find you.  Twinks or not, if they have friends, they dont need to be twinked.  </p><p>Now, IF they get forced to swallow xp every time they kill you, they are going to STOP!  If your on someone's list are they going to keep attacking you?  If they do, you can be assured, they are getting xp for it with no other reward.</p><p>IF someone is on YOUR list, are you going to keep rolling on them?  Probably not as your going to get xp, too.  </p><p>This change will highly impact griefers from their constant ganking in the lower tiers of pvp with no impact on pvp at lvl 80.</p></blockquote><p>Thats a good point spider, and partially accurate.  However it will promote zerging since you constant death is actually hurting them more then you though.  Winning a pvp fight should not have a PENALTY associated with it, which like it or not, a large portion of the pvp server will look at this as a penalty, not a benefit.</p><p>Also i dont think it not effecting T8 pvp is a good thing. T8 is the worst pvp tier for griefers and gank squads. people think its bad in T2, please, you have no idea.  EoF it was managable because of the large number of instance zones you could go too to get away from it, in RoK, there is no place to go.</p>

Snosael
12-11-2007, 03:05 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite> <blockquote><p>4.  Add exp gain to pvp kills - will fix nothing, People will still get owned.</p><p> I see a pattern developing.</p><p>Where there are sheep for the slaughter, there will always be wolves.  </p><p>Personally i am for any changes that will help players enjoy the game more.  This is NOT one of those changes.</p></blockquote><p>I agree with you completely Deekin.  If SOE wants to help new players, they need to make a change that protects them directly.  There have been several ideas how to do this in the last week.</p><p>I haven't seen new players quitting the game because of T2 twinks.  Maybe SOE has some evidence, maybe not.</p><p>It seems to me that this is all about T8s that cry because the want to force more players into their pvp range so they can 'own' them instead of GETTING owned when they try to make a T2 twink.</p>

Zacarus
12-11-2007, 03:24 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Negative Effects.</p><p> 1.  People that want to AA up will now run from every pvp encounter, or just let themselves be killed in order to not gain exps.  Great way to remove pvp from a pvp server.</p><p>2.  The Gankers and Tweaks will still tweak up, out level thier gear, then start over a new class to continue ganking.  It takes at most 10 plat to full tweak just about any class in T2 including some M1's of a few key spells, and thats figuring high.  10 plat can be earned extremely quickly at T8, and to alot of people its worth the coin to be able to go out and take on 3 or 4 people at the same time.</p><p>3.  People that have friends that can't play as often will not be able to go pvp with thier characters while they wait for thier friends to catch up.  This directly effects me, as im sure it will many others.  While it matters little at T6+, i have 3 toons that are in T2 and T3 waiting for my friends to level.  They will now be unplayable unless my friends are on.</p><p>4.  The T2 whiners will continue to whine.  First it was AA's.  They put in a cap, not 3 hours after the patch went in, there were threads of whines again.  Second whine, Gear, the new sarnak stuff is better then anything you can buy right now and anyone can get it.  And yet they still whine.  Now they are forcing people to earn exps.  I would bet an Iphone that not 6 hours after that patch goes in we will be able to come to this forum and see some posts of people continuing to whine.  </p><p> Positive Effects.</p><p>.........</p><p> ACTUAL SOLUTION:  REMOVE GRIEFERS, NOT TWEAKERS</p><p>If someone kills you in pvp, they are unable to engage you again for 30 minutes.  You can engage them in which cases they can kill you again, or they can attack you if you engage someone in thier group, but if you are on thier recent list, they cannot touch you unless you start the fight.</p></blockquote>Excellent post.  The problem is the Griefer, not the Twinker.  There is a big difference.  Punish the Griefer.

toenukl
12-11-2007, 03:54 PM
<cite>Snosael wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>T2 twinks are twinks for the same reason that T7 twinks (or 'raiders' as they might want to think of themselves).  Twinks none the less.  </p></blockquote>You are totally right about this. Most the people that are for this change are actually NOT against twinks. Most people here, including myself, are against t2 twinks. Why? Because you are killing people that are new to the game, do not understand anything yet, and have absolutely no chance to beat you. By mid to high t3 if you haven't learned to harvest, quest, AA, etc, then it's your own fault if you die. t3+ twinks are fine by me. t2 twinks are killing the growth of the PvP servers.

Snosael
12-11-2007, 04:28 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><b></b>Why? Because you are killing people that are new to the game, do not understand anything yet, and have absolutely no chance to beat you. By mid to high t3 if you haven't learned to harvest, quest, AA, etc, then it's your own fault if you die. t3+ twinks are fine by me. <span style="color: #33cc33;">t2 twinks are killing the growth of the PvP servers.</span></blockquote><p>I don't think thats true.  None of us have any numbers to prove it tho.  Thats what all the controversy is about, the different opinions over this.  SOE is the only one who can answer this. </p><p>Why is T3 twinking ok?  Isn't T1 where new players get to learn the game?  If they need more time put a change in that lets them choose when to start pvp.</p>

Raidyen
12-11-2007, 04:33 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Snosael wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>T2 twinks are twinks for the same reason that T7 twinks (or 'raiders' as they might want to think of themselves).  Twinks none the less.  </p></blockquote>You are totally right about this. Most the people that are for this change are actually NOT against twinks. Most people here, including myself, are against t2 twinks. Why? Because you are killing people that are new to the game, do not understand anything yet, and have absolutely no chance to beat you. By mid to high t3 if you haven't learned to harvest, quest, AA, etc, then it's your own fault if you die. t3+ twinks are fine by me. t2 twinks are killing the growth of the PvP servers.</blockquote><p>This is a valid point, but here is my problem with this line of thinking.</p><p>PvP is a dog eat dog world, whether your level 10 or level 80.  You are going to be killed, ganked, griefed, ganked again, sent tells that your hacking/cheating/exploiting, etc.  The thing is right now people are learning this very hard lesson at low levels, and within a week of two of playing the game on pvp.   You take this lesson out, now they don't learn it until level 60 where every zone you have to hunt in is unlimited level range.  Meaning a fully fabled level 80 can and will roll you.  If you havent had the chance to learn pvp by then, its going to be to late.  Personally i think you are doing no favors for new players by giving them an easy button to level 60.  I came to pvp with 6 Real life friends.  3 of us remain.  the other 3 are on Blue servers.  They couldnt take the heat, and all quit before getting to far into the 30's.  Luckly though they found that out sooner rather then later, or i could see all 3 of them returning to WoW.  Yes it hurts that new players have to learn this early, but if they can't take it, get out now before you invest a ton of time into a character.</p><p>And back to my orginal point anyway, Do something about Griefers.  Take a look at the current recent list system for pvp and fix it first.  Right now, it does nothing.</p>

Bloodfa
12-11-2007, 04:56 PM
<cite>Snosael wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>Why? Because you are killing people that are new to the game, do not understand anything yet, and have absolutely no chance to beat you. By mid to high t3 if you haven't learned to harvest, quest, AA, etc, then it's your own fault if you die. t3+ twinks are fine by me. <span style="color: #33cc33;">t2 twinks are killing the growth of the PvP servers.</span></blockquote><p>I don't think thats true.  None of us have any numbers to prove it tho.  Thats what all the controversy is about, the different opinions over this.  SOE is the only one who can answer this. </p><p>Why is T3 twinking ok?  Isn't T1 where new players get to learn the game?  If they need more time put a change in that lets them choose when to start pvp.</p></blockquote><p>T1 is <u>not</u> where new players learn the game; it's where new players get started.  T2 is where they learn the game, because a completely inexperienced player with no gear equipped out of his backpack and App 1's could fart and kill an even con NPC on the Island.  Then comes T2 ... and Bam!  There is no learning curve.  There is no "Hey, this is PvP, it's ugly, and what you learned on the island was squat" quest.  You go from joining a dojo, sitting in on two classes, and on your third class, when you're still learning how to tie your obi, your sensei turns his back and lets a half-dozen orange belts beat the living crap out of you, tea-bag you, while the blue and brown belts watch on, barred from interfering.  The chances that somebody would come back to that dojo are slim at best, with the orange belts thumping their chests and saying "I guess he wasn't really cut out for karate," and yelling "Learn to fight!"  </p><p>T3 would be more like coming into a new dojo as an orange belt.  Yes, sparring against the green belts is going to hurt.  But you'd have a chance against them.  Also, you'd have no one to blame but yourself if you were dumb enough to drop your guard against them, or lose against an opponent after willingly stepping onto the tatami.</p>

Alycs
12-11-2007, 05:09 PM
I've only been back for a little bit.  But, before I left, I helped quite a few newbies figure out how to twink for their protection.  I am more than willing to help new folks out.That said, quite a few of the new folks I'd helped out left long before I did.  They got tired of not being able to get good enough equipment, spells, etc.And folks can yell that this is PvP - you should expect death, yadda yadda yadda.  But, when a game is not fun, do you continue to play it?  Let alone PAY to play it?  I sure as heck won't, and didn't for 6 months.  Now, multiply that by lots.  The number folks for SOE probably DO have the amount of people that leave EVERY month because of this very issue.  There is a questionaire that you have to fill out to cancel your account.  HAVE to, it won't finish until you do.As for this "fix", it's one of the few things that they could do that would NOT affect level locking on a PvE server.  For which quite a few folks I know on a PvE server are quite glad of.Yes, this is a harsh thing to do however, the griefers really haven't given SOE any other recourse.  I shudder to think of the coding to make someone immune to attack for 30 minutes against just a single/few person/s.  Not feasible if you think about it.  And to ban level locking period?  That would end up being a game-wide issue, not just on a PvP server.  They can institute the PvP xp game-wide and it only become an issue on a  PvP server.  Thus, the coding is far easier to do than a lock out/immunity.So, what this means to the griefer?  More time attacking guards to build up xp debt = more time new folks can play relatively gank free.  Does this mean they won't get attacked?  No.  Just not by the ravening hordes, repeatedly until they find that the game is no longer fun and fill out that final questionaire and leave, SOE loosing that $15-30 bucks a month x ???.

voxranger
12-11-2007, 05:16 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>First off, anyone wanting to explore content can play on a PvE server.  The point of PvP is to PvP.  If you dont like getting killed, dont play here.  SoE is not doing this for subscriptions.  If they were, they would actually come up with real solutions, not this quick changes every two months that never FIX THE REAL PROBLEM, which is greifers.  I do have a serious problem with people spam killing you, which is a REAL problem over ALL levels, not just the handful of toons that are in there teens.</p><p>Here is what SoE has done over the last 6 months to help out those T2 players that cant figure out how to stay alive and come here to whine about it.</p><p>1.  AA cap - fixed nothing.  People still got owned.</p><p>2.  Remove Debt - fixed nothing.  People still got owned.</p><p>3.  Gave you [Removed for Content] quest gear in RoK - fixed nothing.  People still got owned.</p><p>4.  Add exp gain to pvp kills - will fix nothing, People will still get owned.</p><p> I see a pattern developing.</p><p>Where there are sheep for the slaughter, there will always be wolves.  </p><p>Personally i am for any changes that will help players enjoy the game more.  This is NOT one of those changes.</p></blockquote><p>If a pvp sever was ONLY about pvp, we would just be logging into an arena. </p><p>No, pvp servers are there to provide another dimension to the game in ADDITION to the pve contact and other social elements.</p><p>The vast majority of people that roll on a pvp server like to experiment with all elements of the game. As has been said by other posts, and to quote Stephen Cobert, "the market has spoken". Its a business, and if SOE didnt feel like locking twinks were nagatively impacting the game experience of the majority of players, and as a result, the revenue to the company, they would do nothing. </p><p>Instead of suggesting that the vast majority of players (who do not subscribe to your vision of the game) leave the server, perhaps folks like you should consider leaving to find a game that is more in line with your tastes. </p>

Raidyen
12-11-2007, 05:33 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>I've only been back for a little bit.  But, before I left, I helped quite a few newbies figure out how to twink for their protection.  I am more than willing to help new folks out.That said, quite a few of the new folks I'd helped out left long before I did.  They got tired of not being able to get good enough equipment, spells, etc.And folks can yell that this is PvP - you should expect death, yadda yadda yadda.  But, when a game is not fun, do you continue to play it?  Let alone PAY to play it?  I sure as heck won't, and didn't for 6 months.  Now, multiply that by lots.  The number folks for SOE probably DO have the amount of people that leave EVERY month because of this very issue.  There is a questionaire that you have to fill out to cancel your account.  HAVE to, it won't finish until you do.As for this "fix", it's one of the few things that they could do that would NOT affect level locking on a PvE server.  For which quite a few folks I know on a PvE server are quite glad of.Yes, this is a harsh thing to do however, the griefers really haven't given SOE any other recourse.  I shudder to think of the coding to make someone immune to attack for 30 minutes against just a single/few person/s.  Not feasible if you think about it.  And to ban level locking period?  That would end up being a game-wide issue, not just on a PvP server.  They can institute the PvP xp game-wide and it only become an issue on a  PvP server.  Thus, the coding is far easier to do than a lock out/immunity.So, what this means to the griefer?  More time attacking guards to build up xp debt = more time new folks can play relatively gank free.  Does this mean they won't get attacked?  No.  Just not by the ravening hordes, repeatedly until they find that the game is no longer fun and fill out that final questionaire and leave, SOE loosing that $15-30 bucks a month x ???.</blockquote><p>And here again is my problem.  You think that forcing exps for pvp will stop greifers.  IT WONT.  Raving hordes?  oh just wait.</p><p>What about my subscription?  does my $15-$30 bucks a month not count?  These people bailing early becuase the game isnt fun are going to bail anyway.  It has nothing to do with getting ganked in pvp, its because they are game jumpers, and get bored easly, and arent willing to work on their character to get better and compete.  If your not willing to put in some time and deaths, you are never going to enjoy the game.  </p><p>So lets assume this change does nothing, and people still get griefed and ganked in T2, and come here to whine about it, which is going to happen.  Whats the next change your going to demand?  How about this.  If i kill you in pvp, you will instantly revive, and gain a permantent root/stifle ability you can cast on me so you can kill me right back.  Would that fix the problem?</p>

Raidyen
12-11-2007, 05:46 PM
<cite>voxranger wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>First off, anyone wanting to explore content can play on a PvE server.  The point of PvP is to PvP.  If you dont like getting killed, dont play here.  SoE is not doing this for subscriptions.  If they were, they would actually come up with real solutions, not this quick changes every two months that never FIX THE REAL PROBLEM, which is greifers.  I do have a serious problem with people spam killing you, which is a REAL problem over ALL levels, not just the handful of toons that are in there teens.</p><p>Here is what SoE has done over the last 6 months to help out those T2 players that cant figure out how to stay alive and come here to whine about it.</p><p>1.  AA cap - fixed nothing.  People still got owned.</p><p>2.  Remove Debt - fixed nothing.  People still got owned.</p><p>3.  Gave you [Removed for Content] quest gear in RoK - fixed nothing.  People still got owned.</p><p>4.  Add exp gain to pvp kills - will fix nothing, People will still get owned.</p><p> I see a pattern developing.</p><p>Where there are sheep for the slaughter, there will always be wolves.  </p><p>Personally i am for any changes that will help players enjoy the game more.  This is NOT one of those changes.</p></blockquote><p>If a pvp sever was ONLY about pvp, we would just be logging into an arena. </p><p>No, pvp servers are there to provide another dimension to the game in ADDITION to the pve contact and other social elements.</p><p>The vast majority of people that roll on a pvp server like to experiment with all elements of the game. As has been said by other posts, and to quote Stephen Cobert, "the market has spoken". Its a business, and if SOE didnt feel like locking twinks were nagatively impacting the game experience of the majority of players, and as a result, the revenue to the company, they would do nothing. </p><p>Instead of suggesting that the vast majority of players (who do not subscribe to your vision of the game) leave the server, perhaps folks like you should consider leaving to find a game that is more in line with your tastes. </p></blockquote><p>First off, PvP is another element of the game.  One you are TAKING AWAY with this change.  I am for any changes SoE wants to make to promote PvP or bring more people into pvp.  This is not one of those changes.</p><p>Second, dont come here and tell me i need to leave this game because its not inline with my tastes.  I have been with SoE longer then probably anyone posting here, and will be here long after.  LEAVING is not an option.  FIGHTING for what i believe in is an option.  LEAVING is what new players that can't handle the pvp servers do, and will continue to do long after this change goes in.</p><p>Third, I totally expect the Temp players to get there way on this, just like the AA cap, that fixed nothing, oh and btw NOBODY has responded to that fact.  Why you all think this is going to be the end all patch to fix griefing is beyond me.  Players will just find work arounds, they always do.  Unfortunatly the Griefs will continue, and the rest of us will pay the price for the short sighted changes that continue to be made.</p>

voxranger
12-11-2007, 06:19 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>voxranger wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>First off, anyone wanting to explore content can play on a PvE server.  The point of PvP is to PvP.  If you dont like getting killed, dont play here.  SoE is not doing this for subscriptions.  If they were, they would actually come up with real solutions, not this quick changes every two months that never FIX THE REAL PROBLEM, which is greifers.  I do have a serious problem with people spam killing you, which is a REAL problem over ALL levels, not just the handful of toons that are in there teens.</p><p>Here is what SoE has done over the last 6 months to help out those T2 players that cant figure out how to stay alive and come here to whine about it.</p><p>1.  AA cap - fixed nothing.  People still got owned.</p><p>2.  Remove Debt - fixed nothing.  People still got owned.</p><p>3.  Gave you [Removed for Content] quest gear in RoK - fixed nothing.  People still got owned.</p><p>4.  Add exp gain to pvp kills - will fix nothing, People will still get owned.</p><p> I see a pattern developing.</p><p>Where there are sheep for the slaughter, there will always be wolves.  </p><p>Personally i am for any changes that will help players enjoy the game more.  This is NOT one of those changes.</p></blockquote><p>If a pvp sever was ONLY about pvp, we would just be logging into an arena. </p><p>No, pvp servers are there to provide another dimension to the game in ADDITION to the pve contact and other social elements.</p><p>The vast majority of people that roll on a pvp server like to experiment with all elements of the game. As has been said by other posts, and to quote Stephen Cobert, "the market has spoken". Its a business, and if SOE didnt feel like locking twinks were nagatively impacting the game experience of the majority of players, and as a result, the revenue to the company, they would do nothing. </p><p>Instead of suggesting that the vast majority of players (who do not subscribe to your vision of the game) leave the server, perhaps folks like you should consider leaving to find a game that is more in line with your tastes. </p></blockquote><p>First off, PvP is another element of the game.  One you are TAKING AWAY with this change.  I am for any changes SoE wants to make to promote PvP or bring more people into pvp.  This is not one of those changes.</p><p>Second, dont come here and tell me i need to leave this game because its not inline with my tastes.  I have been with SoE longer then probably anyone posting here, and will be here long after.  LEAVING is not an option.  FIGHTING for what i believe in is an option.  LEAVING is what new players that can't handle the pvp servers do, and will continue to do long after this change goes in.</p><p>Third, I totally expect the Temp players to get there way on this, just like the AA cap, that fixed nothing, oh and btw NOBODY has responded to that fact.  Why you all think this is going to be the end all patch to fix griefing is beyond me.  Players will just find work arounds, they always do.  Unfortunatly the Griefs will continue, and the rest of us will pay the price for the short sighted changes that continue to be made.</p></blockquote><p>I dont recall telling you to leave the game. I believe I suggested that if your vision of what the game should be differs the vast majority of the rest of the players, then perhaps you should consider it.</p><p>How is removing the level lock taking away an element of the game? I have run with a group since level one now into tier 8. We have never locked, always gotten our aa, and are all titled, with a couple having  Champ titles. Our gear is mc, legendary, or fabled gear from raids. </p><p>Look, I really dont have any problem with lockers t4 and over - doesnt really matter at that point anyway because it would take you forever to level on pvp kills alone.</p><p>The problem lies in the t2 and t3 lockers who simply farm new players for faction, to get gear, then camp in that tier. Like it or not, the game was not designed for twink lockers to camp in a tier and spend hour after hour pawning easy kills. </p><p>I hear what you are saying, and you feel like the developers are robbing you of elements of the game you find the most fun. However, we have all had deal to deal with adjustments many of us don't like. For example, my main is a ranger which has constantly been critized as being an op class and a result, has been consitently hit with the nerf bat time and time again. While I'm not happy about it, I resolve to make the best of it and find new ways to play my character and have fun.</p><p>If enough people are greifing, there is a reason for it, and changes are generally not made unless there is substantial evidence supporting a change.</p><p>I don't want you to leave the game. I simply hope you can at least entertain the perspective of others who don't share your view and find new ways to succeed in pvp as the game changes and adapts.</p>

Raidyen
12-11-2007, 06:52 PM
<cite>voxranger wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>voxranger wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>First off, anyone wanting to explore content can play on a PvE server.  The point of PvP is to PvP.  If you dont like getting killed, dont play here.  SoE is not doing this for subscriptions.  If they were, they would actually come up with real solutions, not this quick changes every two months that never FIX THE REAL PROBLEM, which is greifers.  I do have a serious problem with people spam killing you, which is a REAL problem over ALL levels, not just the handful of toons that are in there teens.</p><p>Here is what SoE has done over the last 6 months to help out those T2 players that cant figure out how to stay alive and come here to whine about it.</p><p>1.  AA cap - fixed nothing.  People still got owned.</p><p>2.  Remove Debt - fixed nothing.  People still got owned.</p><p>3.  Gave you [Removed for Content] quest gear in RoK - fixed nothing.  People still got owned.</p><p>4.  Add exp gain to pvp kills - will fix nothing, People will still get owned.</p><p> I see a pattern developing.</p><p>Where there are sheep for the slaughter, there will always be wolves.  </p><p>Personally i am for any changes that will help players enjoy the game more.  This is NOT one of those changes.</p></blockquote><p>If a pvp sever was ONLY about pvp, we would just be logging into an arena. </p><p>No, pvp servers are there to provide another dimension to the game in ADDITION to the pve contact and other social elements.</p><p>The vast majority of people that roll on a pvp server like to experiment with all elements of the game. As has been said by other posts, and to quote Stephen Cobert, "the market has spoken". Its a business, and if SOE didnt feel like locking twinks were nagatively impacting the game experience of the majority of players, and as a result, the revenue to the company, they would do nothing. </p><p>Instead of suggesting that the vast majority of players (who do not subscribe to your vision of the game) leave the server, perhaps folks like you should consider leaving to find a game that is more in line with your tastes. </p></blockquote><p>First off, PvP is another element of the game.  One you are TAKING AWAY with this change.  I am for any changes SoE wants to make to promote PvP or bring more people into pvp.  This is not one of those changes.</p><p>Second, dont come here and tell me i need to leave this game because its not inline with my tastes.  I have been with SoE longer then probably anyone posting here, and will be here long after.  LEAVING is not an option.  FIGHTING for what i believe in is an option.  LEAVING is what new players that can't handle the pvp servers do, and will continue to do long after this change goes in.</p><p>Third, I totally expect the Temp players to get there way on this, just like the AA cap, that fixed nothing, oh and btw NOBODY has responded to that fact.  Why you all think this is going to be the end all patch to fix griefing is beyond me.  Players will just find work arounds, they always do.  Unfortunatly the Griefs will continue, and the rest of us will pay the price for the short sighted changes that continue to be made.</p></blockquote><p>I dont recall telling you to leave the game. I believe I suggested that if your vision of what the game should be differs the vast majority of the rest of the players, then perhaps you should consider it.</p><p>How is removing the level lock taking away an element of the game? I have run with a group since level one now into tier 8. We have never locked, always gotten our aa, and are all titled, with a couple having  Champ titles. Our gear is mc, legendary, or fabled gear from raids. </p><p>Look, I really dont have any problem with lockers t4 and over - doesnt really matter at that point anyway because it would take you forever to level on pvp kills alone.</p><p>The problem lies in the t2 and t3 lockers who simply farm new players for faction, to get gear, then camp in that tier. Like it or not, the game was not designed for twink lockers to camp in a tier and spend hour after hour pawning easy kills. </p><p>I hear what you are saying, and you feel like the developers are robbing you of elements of the game you find the most fun. However, we have all had deal to deal with adjustments many of us don't like. For example, my main is a ranger which has constantly been critized as being an op class and a result, has been consitently hit with the nerf bat time and time again. While I'm not happy about it, I resolve to make the best of it and find new ways to play my character and have fun.</p><p>If enough people are greifing, there is a reason for it, and changes are generally not made unless there is substantial evidence supporting a change.</p><p>I don't want you to leave the game. I simply hope you can at least entertain the perspective of others who don't share your view and find new ways to succeed in pvp as the game changes and adapts.</p></blockquote><p>I would agree totally with this change if it was for T2 and T3 only.  The problem is this change is not just T2 and T3, it is all the way up to T8.  If SoE comes out and says "you will only earn exps on characters below level 29, i would love it.  I would even accept level 39 or lower.  It really only takes a few weeks to get into those levels anyway.</p><p>As far as it effecting current pvp.  I personally will not engage in pvp with my lower level toons anymore until i get where i want to be with AA's.  Also, i will not log in just to pvp because i have friends i need to stay close in levels with, and i will no longer be able to do that.</p><p>I am all for removing Griefing on the pvp server.  Any idea out there that will actually effect griefing i will be 100 percent behind as long as it doesnt have a negative effect on the higher Tiers.  I honestly could care less about PvP in T2 and T3.  Actual Skill in pvp doesnt really start until T4 or T5 anyway.  But broad changes like this do more harm then good.</p>

raydenwins
12-14-2007, 11:53 AM
<p>I am very disappointed with soe. </p><p> I got my butt kicked by twinks and more experienced players during the first few months, so I did something about it. I changed my whole game style and made a couple twinks, a t2 and a t3 through questing and looting in groups for about 9 months. I also tried to level an alt, but seems to take forever, but i was doing it.  I had this variety for the purpose of diversity, so i don't get bored actually.  I log my 35 on, run an instance with people, log my t2 on pvp, log my t3 on pvp, craft, log my toon headed to 80 and quest for a little.  Overall, an entertaining session. I spent 9 solid months twinking my t3 warden for pvp fun.  I am a warden and cant gank, or want to.  I get [Removed for Content] about gankers trying to get me, but i use my skill to avoid it.  I roll with a couple others and hunt titled or other twinks.  I get no amusement killing a newb.  I sometimes don't even fight them purposely.  </p><p>Now, I basically have no point to play, I am basically limited to playing one alt and questing to 80, which is so boring. It kills me to think of the hard work I put into maxing my couple alts out just for soe to pull the carpet out at this late point in the games life. The rules of this game encourage this style, for there is pvp gear at that level (which requires pvp faction), nice fabled / legendary drops and great adorns for the gear.  All this supports twinking. </p><p> If soe wants only t8, then start everyone out at level 80 with max aa.  I certainly don't have another year or so to start over, which seems to be what they are encouraging. I wish I knew this crap from the beginning, I would never have played this style, not saying I wouldn't play. I just like having the best gear/spells and grouping up and fighting, but I like to do this at the popular and easier tiers.  I can't seem to get to 80 without spending countless months and boring myself to do it. I really enjoed the game before this change, and I'm not a ganker, for that seems to be a popular curse word or reason for this change. </p>

Spyderbite
12-14-2007, 02:23 PM
<cite>raydenwins wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I really enjoed the game before this change, and I'm not a ganker, for that seems to be a popular curse word or reason for this change. </p></blockquote>And, we who support this change, understand that if you are sincerely not a griefer, you were swept out with the those who were. And, to make this argument even more entangled, you've got a bunch of the gankers on the same bandwagon as you claiming to never have touched a newb and only in it "to experience the content" or "participate in fun and fair PvP". It doesn't do much for the credit of people like yourself who claim innocent of such crimes. Thus people find it easier to group all twinks in to the classification of a "griefer".It sucks. I know. But, only Sony has access to the PvP logs and knows where and who are PvP'n and who is griefing and how many. And, as a result felt this change was necessary. As I've already said many times.. don't blame Sony. Don't blame those who rallied for a fix to griefing. Blame the griefers. Many of which are here now patting you on the back going "I know your pain man.. they stole our play style!" right a long side you.

Pyra Shineflame
12-14-2007, 02:31 PM
<p>Indeed, blaim to grifers for making a change, any change, necessary and forcing SOE to do something. </p><p>It was not acceptable as it was.</p><p>And how exactly does it impact higher tiers negatively? As spyderbite said, lock exp does not matter that much after T2. </p>

Raidyen
12-14-2007, 02:40 PM
<p>Yeah locking doesnt matter at all once you hit 20.  Just turn your exps on and get to the higher levels.  That way you will be able to get into T8 and compete with the rest of us without any trouble at all.  AA's are way overrated anyway, once you get 25 or 30 your good.  At T8 coin literally falls from the sky, great gear is practicly just handed to you, and the players up there have no idea how to pvp well, so you will have no trouble at all winning pvp battles.  They are also all extremely honorable, and will not attack you while your engaged in a fight, nor will they attack you if your out numbered 3 to 1.  Zerging never happens at T8, and nobody runs, they all stand there and enjoy a good fair fight.  They sure wont attack you if you are grey in an open level zone.  It just wouldnt be sporting.  It really is the greatest.  Hope to see you soon!</p>

Raidyen
12-14-2007, 02:47 PM
<p>Ok so my last post was a bit sarcastic.</p><p>Serious question though, i would like someone to actually Define what a griefer is.  For all i know i might be griefing and not know it.</p>

ckl
12-14-2007, 03:23 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>raydenwins wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I really enjoed the game before this change, and I'm not a ganker, for that seems to be a popular curse word or reason for this change. </p></blockquote>And, we who support this change, understand that if you are sincerely not a griefer, you were swept out with the those who were. And, to make this argument even more entangled, you've got a bunch of the gankers on the same bandwagon as you claiming to never have touched a newb and only in it "to experience the content" or "participate in fun and fair PvP". It doesn't do much for the credit of people like yourself who claim innocent of such crimes. Thus people find it easier to group all twinks in to the classification of a "griefer".It sucks. I know. But, only Sony has access to the PvP logs and knows where and who are PvP'n and who is griefing and how many. And, as a result felt this change was necessary. As I've already said many times.. don't blame Sony. Don't blame those who rallied for a fix to griefing. Blame the griefers. Many of which are here now patting you on the back going "I know your pain man.. they stole our play style!" right a long side you.</blockquote><p>You really should quit assuming that griefers are only present in the lower tiers. There are plenty of them throughout all tiers, and this change does nothing to address that. </p>

Bloodfa
12-14-2007, 03:49 PM
Griefers stalk you.  Go out of their way to keep you from turning in quests (you know, those things done to get the AP's that lockers now claim are beyond their reach due to the change), or kill you every time they see you, regardless of recent.  Does griefing a griefer count?  Or is it just payback?  If you go out of your way to intentionally ruin somebody else's gaming experience for an extended period of time for the sole purpose of ruining their night, you're griefing.  Those that do so are usually pretty obvious.  Killing the same [Removed for Content] because he thinks he's Don Quixote and you're some mythical dragon is simply playing better.  I killed the same foolish Coercer about six times in a row, because he'd come up to me, while I was in a full group mind you, and keep trying to kill me.  I guess he figured he'd get lucky sooner or later, but who in their right mind thinks they can take on odds like that and win?  As a squishy?  With no pet up?  After the first two kills, I stopped attacking him and let him initiate it.  He'd ride up, start casting, and I'd interrupt him.  Rinse, wash repeat.  Was that griefing, even though <i>he</i> kept picking the fight?  He thought so; I just thought it was extremely poor judgement on his part.  /shrug  From what I've seen, most T8 players really don't have the time nor the inclination to grief, except a couple of mid T8 exploiting meatheads from a certain overseas guild.  But they suck anyway and usually end up with an epic fail. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Yonaton
12-14-2007, 10:37 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Yeah locking doesnt matter at all once you hit 20.  Just turn your exps on and get to the higher levels.  That way you will be able to get into T8 and compete with the rest of us without any trouble at all.  AA's are way overrated anyway, once you get 25 or 30 your good.  At T8 coin literally falls from the sky, great gear is practicly just handed to you, and the players up there have no idea how to pvp well, so you will have no trouble at all winning pvp battles.  They are also all extremely honorable, and will not attack you while your engaged in a fight, nor will they attack you if your out numbered 3 to 1.  Zerging never happens at T8, and nobody runs, they all stand there and enjoy a good fair fight.  They sure wont attack you if you are grey in an open level zone.  It just wouldnt be sporting.  It really is the greatest.  Hope to see you soon!</p></blockquote><p>Yeah,I laid out a couple of my experiences,one particular adn one a general nightly type one that are very similar. It was deleted,but that ws my own fault. I was,after all,aggitated.</p><p>Typical night in DLW on Vox server. I go into DLW on my 17 Ranger looking for some t2 pvp. I'm sure that's going to make the pure blooods cringe,but the unfortunate reality is that since DLW opened on Vox,it's been the place where titled pvp'ers in t2 camp constantly at Wanderlust Fair. Mostly due to the added content and easy aa kills that DLW represented to Vox,and partly because tehre's an easy zone escape in the carpet to sinking sands. I go in,find some on lvl or higher fights and get busy. I may die some,but generally I win.</p><p>Once I do win however,teh shout goes out,which I'm expecting honestly. Soon I have a group of Freeporters there,howling for my blood. I generally die at least once before calling on others to see if they want some action. Generally my guildies,who have had one of the best t2 lvl 17 pvp groups on Vox. So we get our group,they got their group. We usually aren't facing 17's alone,more like 17 and up to 21. So we fight,and 90% of the time we stomp them but good. They zerg us,we keep killing until we fall or they stop. Then the next wave of Freeport calls goes out. Soon they've got a raid made,with a red con,maybe two. We fight em,we kill them more often than not from the way we work together. We know each other well and our toons strengths and weaknesses.</p><p>Then all hell breaks loose,cause now we got an x2 on us of reds and teens. And they certainly don't want to stop until they've planted us in the dirt. Sometimes it happens. Other times the teens hide behind the reds so we can't attack and aggro,then drop group and try to sucker punch us.</p><p>And believe me,having a Freepside toon that I play part time(and not for spying,or using him to hunt other ppl on the opposite faction),I know what is said in chat about us. We're "gankers". We "griefed" them. Never mind the fact that I wasn't chasing them. Heck,I'd already gotten the title fame for my Dessy off them already. Already got the faction. No need to rekill again.</p><p>And btw,my Freepside toon was a lvl 27 Slayer. SLAYER. So yeah,I killed people on that side too. I keep my roleplaying lives seperate and don't mix em. The whole point of roleplaying IMO.</p><p> The other story I so poorly tried to relate was when I was on my Freep in Butcherblock. My brother plays only Q side toons,and he was in the area as well. It was near the Greater Faydark door,and I was killing Kobolds and what not for the quests there. I was going about my business when a blue con flew in on the griff. I was killing some bears near the griff,and he AOE'd drawing aggro on them(edit note: What I didn't mention here,is he was trying to kill ME,not bears. The aoe was supposed to hit me but he missed since I was trying to get away from him). I could have stayed and killed him,but he had no title and I wasn't worried about the faction as I was well on my way to moving past any use of lower faction gear. Instead,I ran off and went towards the golins area there,to work on those quests and stay out of his way.</p><p>Instead of going about his business,he smelled an easy kill,lol,even tho I was titled and one lvl higher. He came after me,he a Swashbuckler,me an Assassin,and he not knowing that I had the good sense to be wearing anti-camo goggles. He attacked me when I ran,snared me and I had no choice. I pwned his face,but hard in hopes he would get the message. no such luck.</p><p> Instead he goes on chat to my brother,who was there in zone,telling him how I "ganked" him,and how my brotehr should come help him kill me. My bro called me on the phone telling me this,and told the guy that he saw the whole thing,who I was and everything,and that I had run away and did not hunt him,therefore it was his own fault.</p><p> But guess who got called out in general Q chat for being a ganking [I cannot control my vocabulary]? ME. Yeah,I picked on n00bs. Wasn't much I could do to avoid it(other than not pvp at all and just stand there and die),but there it is.</p><p>The thing that really gets me the most in the whole deal,is that I've been lumped in with ppl who repreatedly kill others for some sick pleasure. I've studiously avoided doing that. People in my freepside guild have hit me,not knowing one of my toons and I've had to kill them. I've actually WARNED them not and told them who I was,and that I didn't want to hit them after it happened. So I wouldn't be killing people for no reason or people who weren't equipped to deal. Go ask the folks in Death Becomes them on Vox. I've tried my best to help everybody over there,to better their toons. From running with their lowbies to kill names,to making gear,to giving away masters,giving away money,etc. And all that even tho my "twink" toons were on Q side,lol.</p><p>Such evil....is me.</p><p>This just makes me sad really.</p>

rvc
12-15-2007, 12:31 AM
<p>   A theme ive noticed with a majority of posts for the change is the T8 are extremely noble and protective of the lower lvl pvp and express this change as needed to protect them.  </p><p>   The majority of the folks against this change are the low lvl players, that get ganked, lvl up, aa up and gear up and compete PVP (thats why im here on a pvp server) as they work thier way up.  Theres only so twinked a toon can get, and a large  majority of folks twink thier toons well to compete against other twinks.  Id go so far as to say for every twinked Q out there theres a twinked Freep thats got them in thier sights and vice versa, no twink is unkillable, period, most of us are twinked to pvp against other twinks, hell thats where the best satisfaction in pvp is killing the twink thats owned you for two weeks,  now youve closed the gap in gear and lvl a bit and turned the table.   Its never bothered me to get owned by another solo, hell it was a great way to get better at pvp, and get motivated to finish that aa out, buy that adornment, etc.   </p><p>     In contrast getting rolled by the 6 on 1 always sucked and it didnt take any twinking for them to do it, it doest matter what tier your in chances are 6 on 1 your dead.  Chances are yeah theres probably someone better geared, with more aa in every tier too.   This is gonna churn out a bunch of T8s getting little to no pvp skills as they lvl up.  Meebe thats why theyre pushing for it so hard, so they have a bunch of pvp noobs at t8 they can gank to thier hearts content with thier lvl 40 plus guilds.  Im just assuming it just seems to me theyre the ones with the most concern for this change staying as is. </p><p> I keep hearing certain T8s saying yep welcome to the jungle.  I need that explained to me how can a lvl 80 gunning for me when im lvl 80 be worse than a lvl 39 gunning for me when im lvl 32?  Im just curious what to expect at T8 since it obviously must be alot better than T2, T3, T4 etc. almost sounds like well be sitting around drinking tea and sharing cookie recipes.  Guess what im saying here is its made to sound like T2 is so bad (pvp on a pvp server)  how is pvp at T8 gonna be any different, im fairly sure theres still gonna be the tight grp of toons running around ganking every solo they see for titles.  There will probably be alot more of those grps than i see now in T3 since folks have had time to create bonds like that surely by T8.  </p><p>I could agree to a change with how the pvp exp works say thru lvls 10-29, but how it is now is ridiculous.  I cant pvp hardly at all now or ill just turn out a toon that will be fodder for the T8 players when I get there.  Its sad really.........Welcome to EQ 2 PVP...........We offer two options....PVP alot with a little bit of PVE and get owned alot every level..........or option 2.........PVE for the first 6 months of joining our PVP server,  avoid PVP confrontations and eventually by lvl 80 youll have a toon that can hold his own in a PVP situation.</p><p>Perhaps they  just need to make a new server (lvl 80 pvp) anyone from a PVE server can transfer to it with full gear and AA only requirement is lvl 80. /shrug just seems like this is what its become.   Im baffled why they still call this a pvp server.</p>

keLston
12-15-2007, 04:32 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Ok so my last post was a bit sarcastic.</p><p>Serious question though, i would like someone to actually Define what a griefer is.  For all i know i might be griefing and not know it.</p></blockquote>Wikipedia actually has a pretty good definition of what griefing is. I like the general summary that it uses: "Griefing is a malignant form of <a rel="nofollow" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergent_gameplay" target="_blank">emergent gameplay</a>."Emergent gameplay is defined as the "creative use of a game in ways unexpected by the game designer's original intent.""Griefers differ from typical players in that they do not play the game in order to achieve objectives defined by the game world. Instead, they seek to harass other players, causing grief. In particular, they may use tools such as stalking, hurling insults, and exploiting unintended game mechanics. Griefing as a gaming play style is not simply any action that may be considered morally incorrect. Though the staff of each online game defines griefing in a manner that best fits their game, certain criteria must be met for an action to be considered griefing. An act of griefing involves the following three types of actions to be considered grief play:<ul><li>The unfair use or abuse of a game mechanic that was not intended by the game's developers.</li><li>The inability of the victim to exact some means of retribution beyond utilizing similar unintended game mechanics.</li><li>The intended purpose of an act of griefing must be to negatively impact the game play of another person.</li></ul>An act of griefing usually meets all these types of criteria as well as any game specific criteria set by the developers of the game."And that is pretty spot-on.As we all know, in this case, the game mechanic was XP locking. It is highly unlikely that SoE intended for XP locking to form a subculture of twinks that demolish certain tiers. So, criteria 1 = check.How can a normal player seek retribution? Certainly in EQ2, you couldn't just outskill them with normal gear and limited AA, you had to do the same. Criteria 2 = check.And it obviously negatively impacts a person's game play. Criteria 3 = check.So, yes, you likely could be considered a griefer. You might use the PvP server defense. But do note, in general terms, Player Killing is not griefing. PKing on a PvP server is intended. I welcome it, I expect it, and I definitely don't expect to live forever. And I certainly hope everyone arguing one way or the other understood this when they rolled PvP. PKing only meets one of the criteria, in this case, it meets "negatively impacts". In general, PKing does not always constitute "creative (ab)use" nor is the victim always unable to seek retribution. Yes, there are people who would define PKing as griefing. These are people that should be stricken from PvP servers and their opinions on PvP instantly invalidated.Too often, everyone is quickly to cry OMG GRIEFER if something happens that negatively impacts their gameplay. It watered down the term griefer. But in it's true form, yes, the level lockers most frequently are/were griefers. Though, of course, there is always the open argument on whether it is griefing if you went to grief a griefer. Hard to say because it muddies the second criteria (retribution).

Tae
12-15-2007, 11:28 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Yeah locking doesnt matter at all once you hit 20.  Just turn your exps on and get to the higher levels.  That way you will be able to get into T8 and compete with the rest of us without any trouble at all.  AA's are way overrated anyway, once you get 25 or 30 your good.  They sure wont attack you if you are grey in an open level zone.  It just wouldnt be sporting.  It really is the greatest.  Hope to see you soon!</p></blockquote>First, you don't need to lock to get all your achievement. I know I never did and I had no trouble. Secondly and most importantly when people are level 70+ they have invested some time in their character and also have learned how to play (Theoretically). They'll also know why some of the people that kill them so easily are managing it. And the zones are huge, so if someone's camping a paticular area it's not hard to just move on. At level 10 the zones are much smaller, the quests are concentrated in certain areas. You've just created the character and just bought the game so quitting is much easier. And most important of all, when you fight people at T8 even when they're fully fabled monster characters it never ever feels like you didn't have a chance. At level 58 I fought a 59 locker who was fully mastered out and had been there for ages and ages and I still nearly managed to kill him. At level 17 it's just not going to happen. THAT is why this change is needed.

ckl
12-15-2007, 01:19 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Yeah locking doesnt matter at all once you hit 20.  Just turn your exps on and get to the higher levels.  That way you will be able to get into T8 and compete with the rest of us without any trouble at all.  AA's are way overrated anyway, once you get 25 or 30 your good.  They sure wont attack you if you are grey in an open level zone.  It just wouldnt be sporting.  It really is the greatest.  Hope to see you soon!</p></blockquote><b>First, you don't need to lock to get all your achievement. I know I never did and I had no trouble.</b> Secondly and most importantly when people are level 70+ they have invested some time in their character and also have learned how to play (Theoretically). They'll also know why some of the people that kill them so easily are managing it. And the zones are huge, so if someone's camping a paticular area it's not hard to just move on. At level 10 the zones are much smaller, the quests are concentrated in certain areas. You've just created the character and just bought the game so quitting is much easier. And most important of all, when you fight people at T8 even when they're fully fabled monster characters it never ever feels like you didn't have a chance. At level 58 I fought a 59 locker who was fully mastered out and had been there for ages and ages and I still nearly managed to kill him. At level 17 it's just not going to happen. THAT is why this change is needed.</blockquote>When's the last time you leveled up a character with PVP XP? Surely that would change something, and make the first statement of yours I bolded quite moot. To the second paragraph, here's a guide telling new players what to expect. It welcomes them to the jungle; maybe you've read it.<a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=367158" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=367158</a>The third paragraph... competitive fights are possible at level 17, assuming you've spent the time to at least get mastercrafted and adept 3s. Surely at level 58 you didn't have only adept 1s and handcrafted armor, did you? The only thing that was wrong with the previous situation was the new players expecting to succeed while not putting time in to master the system. And that won't change, even with PVP XP.

Dingir
12-15-2007, 01:37 PM
I could very well understand this patch, because some of it is all right, some of it isn't. The fact is two equal level enemies just attacked <b>me</b> and somehow, I got 10% from killing them both. I'm not a twink, just using that Timorous Deep gear at level <b>21</b> and got a 60% spellcrit in the SK int tree. Why did I get 10%? Isn't this a <b>little</b> out of hand? The patch is designed to eliminate the griefers, is it not? So why not eliminite the <b>griefers</b> and not the <b>first-time</b> killers. Summary. One harm touch gained me a good portion of a level and <b><u>I</u></b> was the one being attacked. Isn't that taking it a <b>little</b> too far?

ckl
12-15-2007, 01:42 PM
<cite>Dingir wrote:</cite><blockquote>I could very well understand this patch, because some of it is all right, some of it isn't. The fact is two equal level enemies just attacked <b>me</b> and somehow, I got 10% from killing them both. I'm not a twink, just using that Timorous Deep gear at level <b>21</b> and got a 60% spellcrit in the SK int tree. Why did I get 10%? Isn't this a <b>little</b> out of hand? The patch is designed to eliminate the griefers, is it not? So why not eliminite the <b>griefers</b> and not the <b>first-time</b> killers. Summary. One harm touch gained me a good portion of a level and <b><u>I</u></b> was the one being attacked. Isn't that taking it a <b>little</b> too far?</blockquote>No, for an SK with points in HT, you should get about x levels (where x is 80 minus your current level) for killing a yellow, then teleported into the nearest x4 raid of level 80s. You should then be respawned right on top of them each time you die, without immunity as you revive.But in all seriousness, yeah, that's far, far too much XP.

Notsovilepriest
12-15-2007, 01:49 PM
<cite>cklab wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Yeah locking doesnt matter at all once you hit 20.  Just turn your exps on and get to the higher levels.  That way you will be able to get into T8 and compete with the rest of us without any trouble at all.  AA's are way overrated anyway, once you get 25 or 30 your good.  They sure wont attack you if you are grey in an open level zone.  It just wouldnt be sporting.  It really is the greatest.  Hope to see you soon!</p></blockquote><b>First, you don't need to lock to get all your achievement. I know I never did and I had no trouble.</b> Secondly and most importantly when people are level 70+ they have invested some time in their character and also have learned how to play (Theoretically). They'll also know why some of the people that kill them so easily are managing it. And the zones are huge, so if someone's camping a paticular area it's not hard to just move on. At level 10 the zones are much smaller, the quests are concentrated in certain areas. You've just created the character and just bought the game so quitting is much easier. And most important of all, when you fight people at T8 even when they're fully fabled monster characters it never ever feels like you didn't have a chance. At level 58 I fought a 59 locker who was fully mastered out and had been there for ages and ages and I still nearly managed to kill him. At level 17 it's just not going to happen. THAT is why this change is needed.</blockquote>When's the last time you leveled up a character with PVP XP? Surely that would change something, and make the first statement of yours I bolded quite moot. To the second paragraph, here's a guide telling new players what to expect. It welcomes them to the jungle; maybe you've read it.<a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=367158" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=367158</a>The third paragraph... competitive fights are possible at level 17, assuming you've spent the time to at least get mastercrafted and adept 3s. Surely at level 58 you didn't have only adept 1s and handcrafted armor, did you? The only thing that was wrong with the previous situation was the new players expecting to succeed while not putting time in to master the system. And that won't change, even with PVP XP.</blockquote>Alright, I will break this down for you:You do not have to lock to max AA, I have done it Taear has done it. You know having us not locking means that we got PvP XP AND Adventure XP, Therefore making your point very mute yourself. You just want to be the boy that cries wolf one to many times it seem.

ckl
12-15-2007, 01:54 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>cklab wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Yeah locking doesnt matter at all once you hit 20.  Just turn your exps on and get to the higher levels.  That way you will be able to get into T8 and compete with the rest of us without any trouble at all.  AA's are way overrated anyway, once you get 25 or 30 your good.  They sure wont attack you if you are grey in an open level zone.  It just wouldnt be sporting.  It really is the greatest.  Hope to see you soon!</p></blockquote><b>First, you don't need to lock to get all your achievement. I know I never did and I had no trouble.</b> Secondly and most importantly when people are level 70+ they have invested some time in their character and also have learned how to play (Theoretically). They'll also know why some of the people that kill them so easily are managing it. And the zones are huge, so if someone's camping a paticular area it's not hard to just move on. At level 10 the zones are much smaller, the quests are concentrated in certain areas. You've just created the character and just bought the game so quitting is much easier. And most important of all, when you fight people at T8 even when they're fully fabled monster characters it never ever feels like you didn't have a chance. At level 58 I fought a 59 locker who was fully mastered out and had been there for ages and ages and I still nearly managed to kill him. At level 17 it's just not going to happen. THAT is why this change is needed.</blockquote>When's the last time you leveled up a character with PVP XP? Surely that would change something, and make the first statement of yours I bolded quite moot. To the second paragraph, here's a guide telling new players what to expect. It welcomes them to the jungle; maybe you've read it.<a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=367158" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=367158</a>The third paragraph... competitive fights are possible at level 17, assuming you've spent the time to at least get mastercrafted and adept 3s. Surely at level 58 you didn't have only adept 1s and handcrafted armor, did you? The only thing that was wrong with the previous situation was the new players expecting to succeed while not putting time in to master the system. And that won't change, even with PVP XP.</blockquote>Alright, I will break this down for you:You do not have to lock to max AA, I have done it Taear has done it. You know having us not locking means that we got PvP XP AND Adventure XP, Therefore making your point very mute yourself. You just want to be the boy that cries wolf one to many times it seem.</blockquote>Oh yeah, hehe, you do normally get XP for PVP kills unless you're locked. Been so long since I've had XP unlocked on any char. Regardless of how you guys did it, most of the time I'm playing it's to PVP and nothing else. Not a little PVP here and there as I quest or explore. Your playstyle might have allowed you to keep your AAs maxxed, but mine won't.

Roald
12-15-2007, 02:34 PM
This change wasn't meant to eliminate twinks. It was meant to cut down on the amount of Newbies hitting level 10 and getting slaughtered by perma-lockers camping the newb zones.

Dingir
12-15-2007, 06:25 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>This change wasn't meant to eliminate twinks. It was meant to cut down on the amount of Newbies hitting level 10 and getting slaughtered by perma-lockers camping the newb zones.</blockquote>Then they screwed up royally if I'm level 21 and getting 5-10% per kill.

Norrsken
12-15-2007, 07:11 PM
<cite>Dingir wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>This change wasn't meant to eliminate twinks. It was meant to cut down on the amount of Newbies hitting level 10 and getting slaughtered by perma-lockers camping the newb zones.</blockquote>Then they screwed up royally if I'm level 21 and getting 5-10% per kill.</blockquote>Did they? I dont see you having any chanceof locking and sticking aroudn to kill newbs with that kind of XP coming your way? <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Though, it seems they kindof overdid it though.

Rutaq
12-15-2007, 07:27 PM
<cite>cklab wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dingir wrote:</cite><blockquote>I could very well understand this patch, because some of it is all right, some of it isn't. The fact is two equal level enemies just attacked <b>me</b> and somehow, I got 10% from killing them both. I'm not a twink, just using that Timorous Deep gear at level <b>21</b> and got a 60% spellcrit in the SK int tree. Why did I get 10%? Isn't this a <b>little</b> out of hand? The patch is designed to eliminate the griefers, is it not? So why not eliminite the <b>griefers</b> and not the <b>first-time</b> killers. Summary. One harm touch gained me a good portion of a level and <b><u>I</u></b> was the one being attacked. Isn't that taking it a <b>little</b> too far?</blockquote>No, for an SK with points in HT, you should get about x levels (where x is 80 minus your current level) for killing a yellow, then teleported into the nearest x4 raid of level 80s. You should then be respawned right on top of them each time you die, without immunity as you revive.But in all seriousness, yeah, that's far, far too much XP.</blockquote><p>Agreed.  I like the change but the xp rate need to be adjusted to give people a chance to play the characters they maxed out before they hit the next tier.</p>

Riny
12-15-2007, 09:42 PM
Here is what I've found with the new PVP XP situation. Since I'm one of the players that want to level slowly, I've found that I can just keep killing people on my recent list. Doing so repeatedly will not result in XP, only the first time you kill them. I find that this provides a way for me to PVP while controlling the incoming XP. I'm sure SOE thought of this prior to designing the change, yes?

Tae
12-15-2007, 11:02 PM
<cite>cklab wrote</cite><cite></cite><a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=367158" target="_blank"></a> <blockquote>The third paragraph... competitive fights are possible at level 17, assuming you've spent the time to at least get mastercrafted and adept 3s. Surely at level 58 you didn't have only adept 1s and handcrafted armor, did you? The only thing that was wrong with the previous situation was the new players expecting to succeed while not putting time in to master the system. And that won't change, even with PVP XP.</blockquote>I did have adept Is (and apprentice IVs!) and handcrafted armour. I played on Darathar, and the last armourer had quit some time before i started.

Dingir
12-16-2007, 05:34 AM
<cite>Riny wrote:</cite><blockquote>Here is what I've found with the new PVP XP situation. Since I'm one of the players that want to level slowly, I've found that I can just keep killing people on my recent list. Doing so repeatedly will not result in XP, only the first time you kill them. I find that this provides a way for me to PVP while controlling the incoming XP. I'm sure SOE thought of this prior to designing the change, yes?</blockquote>Yes, but it should be the other way around if they're trying to get rid of griefers/lowbie twinks. Anyone <b>not</b> on your recent list shouldn't give XP, and anyone on it should give 10%.As for whoever said I wouldn't be around to pvp so often, you're right. But that isn't <b>my</b> specific intention. >.>; I don't want my SK above 28 for err. Unknown reasons. (Farmer! Yee) <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> But that means I simply cannot fight back whenever a Q attacks me at 28. I don't know. I just think it should be to do away with griefers.Just thought of something. What about a PvP Scale? Say you're at +0 in the scale and you get killed, so now you're at -1. Assuming each whole number = 10 minutes, you'd be immune for 10 minutes since you haven't killed anyone, but someone's killed you. Meanwhile, if you're going to pvp, say you kill 5 people to your 1 death. When you die, the typical rules apply until those 40 minutes are up so that you're fair game to everyone, even griefers. Or not griefers. Just throwing the idea out. <.>; Definitely something you should be allowed to disable though in case you still wanna keep PvPing after death, but it would help the lowbies, would it not?

KannaWhoopass
12-16-2007, 07:20 AM
<p>I would like to see how much exp is gained at each level when killing an even con player .. </p><p>With vitality .. </p><p>i would like to see the diminishing curve.. </p><p>i killed 20 ish people in my grp at lvl 75 and got 5% .. </p><p>at this tier that woulbe about 400 kills per level .. </p><p>Post exact numbers for even con kills and the level of the player </p><p>This would shed light on what tier the developers anticipated griefing new players would end   </p>

Riny
02-22-2008, 10:44 PM
<cite>Dingir wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Riny wrote:</cite><blockquote>Here is what I've found with the new PVP XP situation. Since I'm one of the players that want to level slowly, I've found that I can just keep killing people on my recent list. Doing so repeatedly will not result in XP, only the first time you kill them. I find that this provides a way for me to PVP while controlling the incoming XP. I'm sure SOE thought of this prior to designing the change, yes?</blockquote>Yes, but it should be the other way around if they're trying to get rid of griefers/lowbie twinks. Anyone <b>not</b> on your recent list shouldn't give XP, and anyone on it should give 10%.</blockquote>I guess my sarcasm was too restrained. My comment was to illustrate that Sony has changed my behavior in a way that is not in their interest. Before the change, I used to avoid recents. Now, once I've built up a list, I just go after them until the 30 minutes are up. They've turned me into a "griefer".