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View Full Version : Are shadow knights just weak against Druids?


Kulharr
12-10-2007, 08:24 PM
<p>I donno whether or not it's Druid's or Fury's I'm fighting.  I am only guessing because of the massive healing rates yet insane nukes I am seeing and little "nature-looking" buff icons under there name...</p><p>I have never survived a duel with this class, lower level or not.  They rate they seem to be able to heal is nuts, which negates all my dps.  Meanwhile their dps and nukes completely obliterate me as if I was fighting a Wizard at times.  I am being hit with 400 damage spells at times, and at lvl 25 I only have 1800 hp.  I don't have spells that do half that aside from harm touch.</p><p>All my skills are adept 3 and I have good gear and reasonable resist... i am capable of dualing pretty much any other class evenly and can win pretty often in duals, I even roasted a lvl 30 ranger.  But I completely get rocked and cannot even bring this priest class down to half life before I'm a stain on the ground.  I am assuming these are Fury's,  is it simply that Shadow Knights are weak against Druid type classes, or Priests in general?</p><p>I wouldn't mind that so long as they too have a weakness.</p>

Wraithstalker
12-10-2007, 09:41 PM
Exactly the same level as you, fully mastered SK, and it still happens.On the odd occassion I have won (maybe as high as 20% when it's one on one, withing a 2 level range each way), it's because the caster was stunned, was resisted or was running away after getting all my debuffs and spells off in the first 10 seconds and timing my stun to stop Strike of Thunder.With HT it's not a problem, but usually I find they get stroppy when you do that too then and do something stupid like renaming pets to some nonsense about onevone or uhavenoskill or something.Fury's tend not to run solo (however I'm sure all the solo furies will feel obliged to give a long boring post about how successful they run solo and how overpowered HT is) if they can help it, so check their buffs in case they are paired of with a scout.In group v group you go at the healer and hard and stay on them, stunning and moving a lot. Healers hate toons that move round a whole lot and it tends to confuse folk. If the rest of the group know you are going to move around a lot, they can be cool with that, but I find it gives you enough time to prevent a lot of healing, when creating a little confusion.Also I only ever use HT in the low orange in red, it's to stop runners, not to win a fight from the outset. Try timing your melee autoattack around your CA's and spells. Try this on a mob, listen for the autoattack, then fire a CA or spell off. Also read up on debuffs and apply them before the larger spells as this can make a difference. A single debuff before HT can help you get 300 more damage if it sticks.As for AA's I've gone spell crit 8 in int line and reaver line in total. I got max AA's but I feel that the int line is not something I would give up for the negliable benefit of reaver in PvP. When I've experimented I've found the lines that front load damage the only effective ways against healers and scouts because of the length of the fights.I heard someone say yesterday that everyone has a SK. That might be true, but with a little study and practice, you can be a very good one, and a lot of fun. Healers are our weak point (templars are amazingly hard unless you know how to be patient). Fury damage might me a little strong T3 with the spells available and the evasive AA's to get away quick, but I know which class helm I'm waiting to get, and it's not the flowery crown! Getting pwned by furies is par to the course my friend, it's a great accomplishment to win against them however, and that's what's the game fun, for me at least.I'm on Naggy if you want to see my stuff or whatever.

Kulharr
12-10-2007, 10:47 PM
<p>Cool, thanks for the advice... I don't consider HT to be overpowered.  at adept III, in pvp it looks to do at most 900 damage "if a player has 0 desies resistance"  and you can only use it once every 15 minutes.  I am gettign nuked twice in battle for 450 and I have good resistances!  which ends up doing more damage then my harm touch, especially with the low re-casting time on whatever spell they're using...  That's from a priest class, I am sure mages have much more powerful then nulkes but are fragile... SK just seemed balance out in every way, we don't excel at dps, healing or tanking, but we have a bit of ability in both.</p>

Snowlywhite
12-10-2007, 10:55 PM
till about lvl 40 it's... furies and the rest of the world. And the rest of the world is somewhere down:p

Swifthand
12-11-2007, 06:56 AM
<p>I have a level 13 druid and when I was level 12, a level 16 wizard hit me with a spell that did 840 dmg... I only have 220 hp.. Its funny because I have a level 38 swashy whose master 2 Rakish Swathe does a total of less than 600 dmg.. I dunno if this level 16 guy just happened to hit me with a super Godly crit or what, but when i seen how mch dmg he did to me, i literally fell outof my chair.</p>

Oneira
12-11-2007, 07:08 AM
Early on it's druids all the way.  By the time you reach t7 Shadowknights can fight most druids toe to toe and do fairly well.

ladyvengeance
12-11-2007, 07:25 AM
<p>Whenever I see a druid the same level as me (20), I run. I'm twinked but I stand no chance against a druid with their cheap healing spells and nukes. I think I might win a battle against a druid 10% of the time. Now I just don't bother. </p><p>I've heard that in Vanguard, druids can't use healing spells unless they are grouped. Sounds great to me.</p>

Grimfort
12-11-2007, 07:27 AM
<p>I have a 74 SK, and have only found one way of burning down a healer.At 72 I took down a lvl 80 warden with these tactics. First off, you are probly too low level to get half the spells you need to compete. At lvl 35 you get an aoe spell that removes debuffs, you just have to have it, you get an upgrade later on which is even better. Don't even attempt to just sit back and soak up the dmg. Get your major debuffs off (one you dont even get until 70 sry!) and use the aoe debuff maybe even str debuff, Sacrilege (disease resists debuff) and Blessing. Once these are in place, your need to do burst dps, so your highest dmg spells, with the debuffs you can drain health pretty quick, but of course they can often regen. However, if you do it quick enough they can drop to like 30% before they start casting the big heals which have a longer cast time. Thats when you hit them with PT. I personally switch to a 2 handed in these solo fights as well as the healers are unlikly to do huge melee dmg.</p><p>So, in 3 lines:DebuffBurst dpsPT  </p><p>Wardens played well can be nearly unbeatable vs an SK, their power can well outheal your dmg, and they can avoid the above if they play carefully. For me, I either win quick, or die slow <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. Furies are great fun however, a fight can last 2-3 mins and it just goes down to who has the most power (which is generally the fury!), but its good fun. </p><p>To add, many wardens do help you out by sending in their group of 4 (or is it 5) pets. This is the time when you use your aoe life tap spell which normally wipes them all out, and heals you to the max. </p><p>Check the SK forums for loads of other tips. We arent the best class at pvp by far, but I have found that ROK has made them fairly playable. I now win 50/50 solo fights vs most class types and I am well geared (well, I was!).</p>

MaCloud1032
12-11-2007, 11:48 AM
<p>Healers are hard but i get my best fights out of them.  You have to learn how to hide your dots and your debuffs.  If you want a debuff/DoT to stick cast it after you cast 1 or 2 other spells this will mean that they ahve to cure at lease once to get it off.  Ive had fights with healers that have lasted as little as 5sec up to an hour.  </p><p>It all comes down to your approch.  Are you going to ouright burn them (ushaly wont work)  or are you goignto drain there power and make them work.  You will find a lot more healers that are ready for a quick fight over longer fight.In lower tears its a bit rougher as a sk as all of our good stuff is late level spells like death march mana sieve and dispoi</p>

Mwahaha
12-11-2007, 11:53 AM
<cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Whenever I see a druid the same level as me (20), I run. I'm twinked but I stand no chance against a druid with their cheap healing spells and nukes. I think I might win a battle against a druid 10% of the time. Now I just don't bother. </p><p>I've heard that in Vanguard, druids can't use healing spells unless they are grouped. Sounds great to me.</p></blockquote>I did team pvp on Vanguard for 3 months as a druid and they can indeed heal themselves without being grouped.  They can even summon items for instant heals and mana regen.  Druids were so overpowered in that game lol, you could 2 shot someone like 10 levels above you.

Raidyen
12-11-2007, 11:54 AM
Its nothing your doing wrong, a well played druid is unbeatable no matter what class or tactics you employ.  The only good thing is that only about 1 in 4 druids actually know how to pvp with thier class.  The others are beatable, even though it can be extremely difficult.  If you have the status, Pumis Stones are almost a must.  The ability to strip out a buff or two and a couple regens is huge.  Tie that in with the burst DPS and HT and they should go down.  Thanks to the new appearance tab, most druids now wear robes to look like squishys, so by the time you know what class they are its usually to late to run since they can just snare root you all day. 

tequiero
12-11-2007, 12:12 PM
Well at lvl 24's  fury/warden pretty much owes that  level 24-28 fury is hard as hell to beat since they have thorns and can add adorments to there gear with more thornspretty much you killing your self  but  when you get  to lvl 34+ with your SK the tabels will turn and you will get a better chance, SK at t4Up are thought as hell to beat and in T8 they are beast. so somethignto look foward to if you plan to lvl up

Norrsken
12-11-2007, 03:35 PM
Sorry to say this, but if its a druid that knows his stuff, you arent taking him down easily in t3. You need to be ubered out pretty much completely. Especially not furies that dont dot you. On a bright side though, the higher you go, the easier druids get. t6 you can kill druids and end the fight with a good amount of health and 50% power.

Zaci
12-11-2007, 05:32 PM
The 73 swash that said druids are hard is [Removed for Content] apparently. Well played wardens are hard, but if you go all out do whatever it takes to win they are not THAT* bad. Furies are just easy. Obviously there are the exceptional players, but that is in general. What you want to do as a high level swash vs a warden is start auto-attacking, and maybe one or two CA's, and get them to about half, and wait for them to use their heals. What you do at that time is take your autoattack off, and make sure hemotoxin isnt ticking, I personally dont even use it. Once they are solidly mezzed, put insipiration and engarde up, as well as perfect finesse and the bloodlines spells, and go to town with all your ca's, debuffs first. They shouldnt be alive after your ca cycle, if they are, you probably have no dps and lose.

Fluffypaws
12-12-2007, 01:21 PM
i have a 24 SK, and the way i do it is, hex, use both magical and physical hexx's, knock them over before they can cure, by the time they are on the floor they are yellow and need to heal, debuff, cast infernal blessing, cast a dot, use ur big [Removed for Content] nukes, wait for ur knockback then HT 80% of the time this works, if ur unlucky it fails or if u don't have spell crits ur kinda dead lol

Outkasted2006
12-12-2007, 02:19 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I donno whether or not it's Druid's or Fury's I'm fighting.  I am only guessing because of the massive healing rates yet insane nukes I am seeing and little "nature-looking" buff icons under there name...</p><p>I have never survived a duel with this class, lower level or not.  They rate they seem to be able to heal is nuts, which negates all my dps.  Meanwhile their dps and nukes completely obliterate me as if I was fighting a Wizard at times.  I am being hit with 400 damage spells at times, and at lvl 25 I only have 1800 hp.  I don't have spells that do half that aside from harm touch.</p><p>All my skills are adept 3 and I have good gear and reasonable resist... i am capable of dualing pretty much any other class evenly and can win pretty often in duals, I even roasted a lvl 30 ranger.  But I completely get rocked and cannot even bring this priest class down to half life before I'm a stain on the ground.  I am assuming these are Fury's,  is it simply that Shadow Knights are weak against Druid type classes, or Priests in general?</p><p>I wouldn't mind that so long as they too have a weakness.</p></blockquote><p>Lot's of things appear to be weak against a fury. I know I have one, and of course on other toons taken on talented furies. Played right they are absolute beasts. </p><p>Even with HT, I usually don't die to a SK orange or below to me.</p><p> Yes, I am one of those players that will say HT is weak and cheap. But I will also say this, it's part of your spell list, why should you not use it. I just get seriously frustrated when I am killing someone else, or a mob, and not really all the worried about my health.. letting it rest comfortably between high orange middle yellow, when BAM! HT, dead.  Then they won't fight you. one, I know it's cause they have my "faction/fame" which is awhole different story. But two, I am not dumb, a talented SK, wants no part of a talented fury in a one on one situation. </p>

Outkasted2006
12-12-2007, 02:21 PM
<cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Whenever I see a druid the same level as me (20), I run. I'm twinked but I stand no chance against a druid with their cheap healing spells and nukes. I think I might win a battle against a druid 10% of the time. Now I just don't bother. </p><p>I've heard that in Vanguard, druids can't use healing spells unless they are grouped. Sounds great to me.</p></blockquote>BACK OFF ... LADY <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Outkasted2006
12-12-2007, 02:23 PM
<cite>Swifthand wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I have a level 13 druid and when I was level 12, a level 16 wizard hit me with a spell that did 840 dmg... I only have 220 hp.. Its funny because I have a level 38 swashy whose master 2 Rakish Swathe does a total of less than 600 dmg.. I dunno if this level 16 guy just happened to hit me with a super Godly crit or what, but when i seen how mch dmg he did to me, i literally fell outof my chair.</p></blockquote><p>Pre-23 being a fury is basically like being a lesser version of a warden. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>23+ Thats when the fun starts.</p><p>32 is when it you can two shot some duo's/groups in that right situation.</p>