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Groma
12-10-2007, 01:02 AM
I'm sure its been posted before, but when are we going to see a fix for this.......<img src="http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i102/Gromann/charmpet.jpg" alt="" border="0" />Its getting a bit old having some green con lowbie running around with a pet that 1shots people.  If you can't fix the issue easily, the least you can do is make the mobs "no charm" in the meantime.

Psych
12-10-2007, 05:38 AM
I am only a level 36 coercer currently but you need to /feedback the name of the pet and the zone and not just say "charmed mobs" because I can charm orange cons in EL and I still get destroyed by green con mystics.Yes, I am using master1 beguile for charming so its as strong as they get.Best I can find is a runnyeye seer who nukes for 700-900 which is great really but thats what he nukes for on the blue con briar bears walking around EL not a fully MC geared player and worse the dock in EL seems to delete charmed pets that get near it in some weird attempt to prevent pet dropping I suppose so if a player runs to the dock it DELETES my pet so that they can casually stroll back and tear my face off.I know getting hit for 9k in 1 shot from a pet must suck but how much are scouts nailing you for on their first shot? They can track you down and launch the attack from stealth. Atleast you can see the coercer pet coming and attempt to stop it.Also the coercer has to go get that pet from wherever it spawns in the zone and cant zone with the pet either not to mention he cant use things like griffon towers with a pet charmed.Is it so hard for someone in that zone to shout when they see a coercer headed through the zone then someone just go where these creatures spawn, wait for the coercer and kill him when he gets there?Personally I hope this does get fixed though because it has caused me to start seeing tons of coercers made all the time.Funny story though I was using a level 39 named orange con in EL today and met a 29 coercer sarnak so I decided to give him the pet when I needed to leave. I broke charm and mezzed the pet over and over until the sarnaks charm finally got hold. Must have taken 30+ charm attempts but I think it was worth it since it was a level 29 player with a pet 10 levels above him haha.

Roald
12-10-2007, 07:49 AM
<p>From what i've seen these mobs do need a nerf. 1 shotting plate tanks is just rediculous.</p><p>To psych: Mystics are some of our easiest fights, esp if they are melee specced. Are you keeping despotic mind on them and keeping them locked down?</p>

Elephanton
12-10-2007, 10:30 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>To psych: Mystics are some of our easiest fights, esp if they are melee specced. Are you keeping despotic mind on them and keeping them locked down?</p></blockquote>Typically mystic would 1-shot coercer with Scourge

Roald
12-10-2007, 10:57 AM
<cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>To psych: Mystics are some of our easiest fights, esp if they are melee specced. Are you keeping despotic mind on them and keeping them locked down?</p></blockquote>Typically mystic would 1-shot coercer with Scourge</blockquote>Yesterday I was scourged by an orange mystic. I had all my buffs up plus regen totems plus an int pot. Scourge only did about 700 damage. That's at level 65 by a level 72(?) mystic.

sprogn
12-10-2007, 11:18 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>From what i've seen these mobs do need a nerf. 1 shotting plate tanks is just rediculous.</p><p>To psych: Mystics are some of our easiest fights, esp if they are melee specced. Are you keeping despotic mind on them and keeping them locked down?</p></blockquote><p>Stupid mystics perhaps <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Slothful Spirit, Multiple self cures, Torpor and slowly wear them down.</p><p>Any mystic (actually any class) that wakes up from a Coercer mez and opens up the DPS taps deserves the death they will so rapidly get...</p>

Reddeth
12-10-2007, 12:08 PM
<p>oops.. </p>

Reddeth
12-10-2007, 12:10 PM
<cite>Gromann wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm sure its been posted before, but when are we going to see a fix for this.......<img src="http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i102/Gromann/charmpet.jpg" border="0" alt="" width="539" height="198" />Its getting a bit old having some green con lowbie running around with a pet that 1shots people.  If you can't fix the issue easily, the least you can do is make the mobs "no charm" in the meantime.</blockquote><p>Hmm.. I guess you have never been fissioned yet, huh? If you are going to remove these, then take out those 1 shot attacks as well, or limit damage to at most, 60% of someone's health, like Lifeburn is.</p>

sokil
12-10-2007, 01:13 PM
<p>I agree.. this needs reviewing. This is not a new post but it is an important one. I have been one shotted by the same pet in the jungle as OP. Nice to be in good company I guess. I lost fame/loot and had an armor repair bill and the stupid freep didn't even know I was attacking until he saw my chest sitting there. His pet one shotted me the minute I jumped down from the clift. </p><p>Happened again in Wastes.. but this time his pet took out our tank and mystic before I killed him but about 1 sec after the freep died his pet became a free agent and one shotted me. Sucked that my group made the sacrifice so I could get close enough to kill him and we all still died. </p><p>Fussion, ice nova as far as I know is limited in pvp to a certain amount of health? even if not, at least I can survive it. How do I survive getting hit for a pet for 8465pt of damage when I only have 7-8K as a chain wearing swashi? not to mention ice nove is not a tank. </p><p>SOE please look into this and balance it. You took some animals awary from druid charms.. cannot you not look at corecers?</p>

Psych
12-10-2007, 04:50 PM
Yeah I had despotic on...she was using her pet to wear me down when I casted reactives on her.Plus at 35 with 1786 health her scourge busted two of my buffs for 347 and 450 something so about 800 damage.I really dont see this kinda damage on a healing class AA as having any logic. I understand the move gets weaker later on and yeah I have SOME chance if they just start spell mashing and open up melee but if they just send pet after me and wait til I'm half life for scourge what are my options honestly because even after I kill her pet she can just walk away because my direct offensive dps is so low she can tank me for a day and a week.really tho..800 of my roughly 1800 health from a green con priest class in 1 spell is stupid in my opinion. I understand its gotten better...I mean at 25 it dropped about 80% of my bar not 40% so it HAS gotten better but still pretty bad.

Wraithstalker
12-10-2007, 09:47 PM
I myself have a coercer, and don't like calls for the nerf of a class that can be so easily beaten in PvP.I agree the figures are high, but just to think of the amount of deaths we have had to endure by the classes who are complaining, leave it for a few weeks to we can at least feel vindicated in our choices <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" />Seriously though, maybe tone it down, but don't forget the number of things that make coercers weak in PvP at times. Of all the things to complain about, this is not really up there with some of the greater imbalances in PvP right now, and kind of picking on a slightly underplayed class which has the potential to cause great mischief won't win you any new friends either <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" />Oh and to add, druid charms is not the main focus of the class, with coercer's it's our lifeblood, best not confuse the two or you'll have a lot of angry dark elves!

tequiero
12-11-2007, 12:01 PM
OMG MAGES CAN ACTUALLY KILL SCOUTS. yeah i gree they should be nerf but  its about time they got some love even if dosent last to long. how you think a mage feels when a ranger  2 shots them?, or when a brig/swash dooes the same? or wait SK bezerkers can do it as well. God you guys have it so bad that you can tkill 75% of the mages out there, and when you get kill you  whien like a buch of , well dont want my post to get  taken away aging so keeping it clean, Againg yeah they pets should get nerfs cause shouldn work liek that, but  its about time you got a taste of your owen medicen

tequiero
12-11-2007, 12:06 PM
<p>sorry double post</p>

tequiero
12-11-2007, 12:07 PM
<cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>To psych: Mystics are some of our easiest fights, esp if they are melee specced. Are you keeping despotic mind on them and keeping them locked down?</p></blockquote>Typically mystic would 1-shot coercer with Scourge</blockquote>Well i wan to know how they do it cause  scourge, get resisted so much it not even funny and only does about 1100 per debuff and usully only takes out 2 buffs away, its not liek the pally   spell that does dmg for every debuff they take away from them self. and at lvl 80 scourge only debuffs 110 beneficial spells ( ei: 1 or 2 buffs). i personaly ever  beat a corcer and  consider my self to be  a pretty good mystic. but when i do i feel either  he suck so bad that i beat him or  Woot i got lucky

Spider
12-11-2007, 02:24 PM
<p>I dont see any problem here except someone upset that they lost in pvp.  </p><p>1. Charmed Pets can be a coercer's worst nightmare in pvp or pve!</p><p>2. There is already to many NPC mobs in the game that are immune to charm, mostly because people complain about them when they have never actually had to deal with the side effects of a charm gone bad.</p><p>3. As a coercer, too, I do research to find pets that suit my current pve/pvp needs.</p><p>4. As a coercer, too, I actually rarely lean on pets as I hate getting 1 shotted by my own pet during pvp. (yes it happens a lot, too, even with master charm spells and maxed charm aa)  How about I come here and post that Im sick of my 1 shotting pet busting charm and killing me when I am oh so close to winning the pvp fight!?!</p><p>5. Other professions dont have to deal with their damage output fighting back like a coercer does.  </p><p>6. That coercer whos pet got you, he earned his way into having the chance if even for a temporary time to charm that pet.  What do you think he does when that pet 1 shots him?  Have you any idea how many times that coercer has died and will die trying to get a powerful pet under control and keeping it under control?</p><p>7. Pet summoning classes (i.e. illusionist, conjurer, necromancer...) NEVER have a pet turn on them!  That is the challenge a coercer deals with in pvp and pve!</p>

tequiero
12-11-2007, 02:30 PM
 aye spider  well said,  i am not saying  dont take away the 1 shot pets but liek i said  last time  about time scout got a taste of there owen medicen

Violator
12-11-2007, 02:37 PM
<p>I think its something the class needed. No other class has priest or lower dps, uses reactives, so they have to be hit to kill something, while wearing cloth armor, and their main weapon can turn and kill them at any time, and no way to mitigate or heal the dmg. Especially since they have lowered the reactive dmg since i quit last year. Now taking on a high dmg class without a pet is pretty much suicide.</p><p>I haven't been into any of the T8 areas yet, other the right off the docks in KP. But, tell ya what happened last night. Was in bonemire with our previous best pet, and a lvl 70 wizard that had killed me in a KOS zone earlier attacked me. I got my mez off, and started to load reactives... right as my flame decided to break charm. Freaked me out at first, thinking that with the long cast time, and with an occasional resist, I would eat some ice nova before I even had a chance. Luckily, it was right after I cast mez, so, it worked out ok for everyone but the wizard that time...</p><p> Point that I and every other coercer is trying to make, short of about 3 zones, most classes can kill us hands down, especially if they get the drop, and a ranger can still two shot me in about 3 seconds regardless.</p>

Notsovilepriest
12-11-2007, 02:45 PM
I am so sick of reading "Wah, My Coercer Sux, We need the 1 hit bits", or "You know how may deaths I have taken because my class dies in 2 hits" Stuff. You rolled a SQUISHY. You are going to die fast yes. Coercers can easily beat scouts if you know what your doing. You don't need 1 hit pets to be good. Its funny that a Coercer would bring up Summoner pets. Consistanly, Summoners have been rated as the lowest PvP class, due to pets sucking and being super squishy too. A coercer has many tools to be successful in PvP without a 1 hit pet. This does need fixed and for those who have to use them. Please learn to play your class, KK thx <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Roald
12-11-2007, 03:01 PM
<p>This definately does need to be fixed. To all you coercers who say this is needed, coercers can already kill all classes yellow con and without too much work without a pet, and most orange cons if you are decently geared/specced.</p><p>I don't these pets should be made uncharmable, just nerf their damage to a maximum amount, eg 3-5k.</p>

Psych
12-11-2007, 03:26 PM
Tip: When a player of an MMO says something about a specific class or ability and they use the word "NEED" you should mentally replace this with the word "WANT" to better understand their true feelings. Then replace the name of the class with the posters name. ITS THAT EASY!For instance "Coercers need this because they are squishy!" becomes "I want this because they are squishy!"and "Coercers dont need this to win! l2p your class!!" becomes "I dont want this to win! l2p your class!"See!? TRANSLATED!!Yes, were a squishy class but you cant really go talking about game mechanics like mages needing to be squishy because scouts in chainmail can nearly hit platemail mitigation. If you wanna talk about us needing to be squishy well how about this squishy is supposed to have high dps! Thats the reason theyre squishy! So why do scouts get higher dps, mit, and utility?Its very hard for a coercer to understand he is a squishy because his spells all imply otherwise! I mean they say he must take damage to deal damage! So he must be good at those things right since he is supposed to deal LOTS of damage since he is a squishy!? But wait he cant be squishy if he is meant to take damage right!?In a perfect game yeah coercer spells would make sense and in a perfect game nobody would get 1 shotted and personally I dont like that coercers have pets that 1 shot people but a ranger can nail a 3k crit with a single CA and can easily kill me in a few CA in under 4 seconds at a range I cant possible close in that amount of time.I'm not saying broken justifies broken. I am against both these things. But instead of telling coercers to L2P and trying to get tier 8 pets in a few zones fixed how about trying to get serious problems that affect an entire class or archtype solved?Does a coercer need this to win? Nope. Can a ranger kill a coercer in 4 seconds? Yes. Does that ranger have higher defense? Yes. Should the coercer have higher offense since he has lower defense? Up to SOE but surely they figured that at some time a coercer would charm 1 of these pets and since they made each and every single ca/spell those pets can cast....I gotta go ahead and figure they intended for this to happen.Also, please stop saying the coercer is such a hero in pvp. If someone wants to run away from you and you dont have a pet that can kill them in under 5 seconds they are getting away wether you like it or not. Wanna beat a coercer? Easy, try to kill him. Watch your debuff window. If he casts reactives ie sybillant line, despotic mind line, walk away. Their DD dps is pathetic and they might literally run OOP before killing you if your wearing MC if you dont fight back to trigger their reactives. So just walk away! Come back when he is busy with a mob as long as you surprise him it will only take you 5 seconds to get the kill.Its not rocket science.EDIT: Also to win against coercers use DOT's and moves that hit multiple times. As a scout use skills that hit multiple times because the sybillant line only counts the first strike. For instance the hundred hand slap attack of the bruiser will only trigger sybillant once but can hit multiple times. These attacks are great because they dont trigger as many reactives as spamming. DOT's are great because its a 1 time power cost for damage that wont trigger reactives when it ticks again, only initially.

Violator
12-12-2007, 01:21 AM
<p>I guess the point I am trying to make. I DO know how to play my class, before the reactives were lowered in dmg, i had no problem taking on 2, sometimes 3 people and winning. But now, since I have to be hit to kill someone... I do not have the HP to take the dmg to kill 2 people, much less a healing class. We are the mana kings, just seems like we should have some sort of defense... being that we get smacked on to do dmg. I used to prefer no pets, but now, its really near impossible "to me" to take on  one yellow or orange and live with all master reactives and debuffs without a pet. Just doesnt do enough dmg, much less to kill 2 people by bleeding myself to kill them..... oh well, i guess less QQ</p><p> o</p>

Spider
12-12-2007, 02:53 PM
<p>Psych made several great points, one he didnt announce directly and that is:</p><p>Learn your strategies.   </p><p>Do not fight every class the same way if your in a 1v1 battle.  And lets remember, pvp is less about 1v1 and more about people crying they died to a group that mowed them over.  </p><p>But, since we are talking about a coercer vs. some other solo class in the fight, dont fight the coercer on HER grounds.  Coercers cant track, so you can get the jump on them.  Stalk the coercer until her charm busts and she starts recasting it, that is the best time to pounce on a coercer as you now have their previous pet as your ally in the fight.  </p><p>They are the softest of all the casters, they go down the easiest, BUT they will punish you for to much power use.  Carry cure potions!  You get a sybillant/despo mind line spell on ya? Cure it with a potion! And/Or like Psych said, dont fight them with your power bar.  Cure potions can be used every 15 seconds and you can just hot key the [Removed for Content] things.  Its like having YOUR OWN cure spells with a 15 sec recast on them!</p><p>The instance the poster of this thread described is highly situational as the coercer had full control of the battlefield, which usually means the one in control is going to win.  The coercer chose the moment to engage AND her pet remained charmed on the assault and during the assault.  Everything in that short battle went the way of the coercer and Im sure the thread poster has had battles that went totally her/his way and left the victim feeling helpless.  </p><p>I rotate using pets, they can on some days be extreme headaches because its all a 'roll of the dice' and some days you just roll good and others, days straight you roll horribly bad.  </p><p>I used a pet before the servers went down today and my assassin partner and I won in a long battle vs. an orange con druid and the moment the druid died my charm busted.  If that happened a couple seconds earlier, the druid would surely have won.</p>

Vilesummon
12-13-2007, 12:42 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I dont see any problem here except someone upset that they lost in pvp.  </p><p>1. Charmed Pets can be a coercer's worst nightmare in pvp or pve!</p><p>2. There is already to many NPC mobs in the game that are immune to charm, mostly because people complain about them when they have never actually had to deal with the side effects of a charm gone bad.</p><p>3. As a coercer, too, I do research to find pets that suit my current pve/pvp needs.</p><p>4. As a coercer, too, I actually rarely lean on pets as I hate getting 1 shotted by my own pet during pvp. (yes it happens a lot, too, even with master charm spells and maxed charm aa)  How about I come here and post that Im sick of my 1 shotting pet busting charm and killing me when I am oh so close to winning the pvp fight!?!</p><p>5. Other professions dont have to deal with their damage output fighting back like a coercer does.  </p><p>6. That coercer whos pet got you, he earned his way into having the chance if even for a temporary time to charm that pet.  What do you think he does when that pet 1 shots him?  Have you any idea how many times that coercer has died and will die trying to get a powerful pet under control and keeping it under control?</p><p>7<span style="color: #0000cc;">. Pet summoning classes (i.e. illusionist, conjurer, necromancer...) NEVER have a pet turn on them!  That is the challenge a coercer deals with in pvp and pve!</span></p></blockquote>Our pets also don't hit for 9k dmg. Fact is, I think I could handle the "challenge" of having a pet turn on me...it would most likely be just a pve death. I have yet to see a coercer charmed pet drop to him in pvp. Not saying coercers didn't need some love, but this is way out of line. Not even the one shot wonders (PT, Execute) hit for that kind of damage.

Izzypop
12-13-2007, 01:28 PM
<p><cite></cite></p><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I dont see any problem here except someone upset that they lost in pvp.  </p><p>1. Charmed Pets can be a coercer's worst nightmare in pvp or pve!</p><p><span style="color: #cc0000;"><b>A triple up heroic charmed pet can be an absolute nightmare to control, but the charmed pets dishing out 9k disabling strikes in Kunzar are no arrow mobs solo mobs.  Your statement here is so misleading you should work for the Bush administration.</b></span></p><p>2. There is already to many NPC mobs in the game that are immune to charm, mostly because people complain about them when they have never actually had to deal with the side effects of a charm gone bad.</p><p><b><span style="color: #cc0000;">Everytime SOE take away a charmed mob that dishes out larger nukes/combat arts  than Fission, decap, harm touch, or Ice nova with a less than a 1 second casting time coercers cry.</span></b></p><p>3. As a coercer, too, I do research to find pets that suit my current pve/pvp needs.</p><p><b><span style="color: #cc0000;">So this means you know and admit you know what Kunzar jungle pets are broken 9k one shoting pets.  I bet you use them also.</span></b></p><p>4. As a coercer, too, I actually rarely lean on pets as I hate getting 1 shotted by my own pet during pvp. (yes it happens a lot, too, even with master charm spells and maxed charm aa)  How about I come here and post that Im sick of my 1 shotting pet busting charm and killing me when I am oh so close to winning the pvp fight!?!</p><p><b><span style="color: #cc0000;">This is an outright deception on your part.  You used the well known fact that heroic charmed mobs can instantly eat the coercer charming them in order to try to make it look like it's difficult to maintain charm on a solo no arrorw lizardman in Kunzar jungle.   The mobs 1 shoting people are no arrow solo mobs.  </span></b></p><p><b><span style="color: #cc0000;"><span style="font-size: medium;">You know this and are attempting to mislead the public.</span>  </span></b></p><p><b><span style="color: #cc0000;">When the no arrow solo mob breaks charm it reverts back to PvE dammage when it turns on the coercer and will <u>never</u> 1 shot the coercer for 9k.  A charmed no arrow solo mob will never turn on a coercer mid fight after 1 shoting a player for 9k because the fight is already over with the other playing being very much dead.</span></b></p><p>5. Other professions dont have to deal with their damage output fighting back like a coercer does.  </p><p><b><span style="color: #cc0000;">This is another deception.  The damage output of these solo mobs is magnified by about x5 when they are under charm.  Disabling strike hits for about 1 to 2k tops usually for about 1500 in PVE, and when a charmed mob breaks charm it always does it's PVE damage.  It hits for about 8 to 9k in PVP when the mob is charmed.  Solo non-heroic mobs are very easy for a coercer to maintain charmed and do not require the skill or danger of charming a heroic mob.  You know this yet you are still attempting to decieve the public by convincing us that maintaining a solo no arrow 77ish mob is a difficult task when it is in fact easy.</span></b></p><p>6. That coercer whos pet got you, he earned his way into having the chance if even for a temporary time to charm that pet.  What do you think he does when that pet 1 shots him?  Have you any idea how many times that coercer has died and will die trying to get a powerful pet under control and keeping it under control?</p><p><b><span style="color: #cc0000;"><span style="font-size: medium;">This is a LIE.  You know we are talking about solo pets and not heroic ones.</span>  </span></b></p><p><b><span style="color: #cc0000;">Show me 1 screen shot of a solo non-heroic no arrow pet breaking charm and dishing out a 9k hit on the coercer who charmed it.</span></b></p><p>7. Pet summoning classes (i.e. illusionist, conjurer, necromancer...) NEVER have a pet turn on them!  That is the challenge a coercer deals with in pvp and pve!</p><p><b><span style="color: #cc0000;">This is a sad attempt to gain sympathy for your class after spreading bold faced lies about the mechanics of your charm</span></b></p></blockquote><p><b><span style="color: #0000ff;">If I seem hostile it's not because I get pwned by coercers in PVP because of these pets.  I play a Guardian so everybody and their mother can pwn me 1 on 1 in PvP except maybe necros.  Coercers without pets should be able to pwn me.   The problem here is that charmed pets with disabling strike are more broken than corpse candles ever were and coercers are all either lying about how charm works and/or attempting to sell the idea that they deserve to have solo non heroric no arrow 1 shotting pets.  I don't like being lyied to, and it really pisses me off when players spread lies and misinformation to the general public.</span></b></p>

Wingfoott
12-13-2007, 09:27 PM
<p>Whoa...what's with all the accusations Izzy? I think it was a fair and legitimate post that brought up a lot of good points, not a political campaign. I think you're bringing a bit too much of your personal business into this one. </p><p> Have you ever played a Coercer? They are very tough to play and have many challenges other classes do not face. Before the update where they started nerfing all the pets and making many many mobs "no-charm" it balanced out. Now, I'm not so sure, I think they definitely over-nerfed this one making way too many monsters no-charm when there is no reasons they should be. The comment you made about damage being magnified when a coercer charms a pet? Not in the 70 levels I've played through over the last year have I ever seen that. It's real simple. Charm a "random monster" turn that pet loose on the same "random monster" and the coercer's charmed "random monster" will die every time, even with all the DPS/Resistance buffs. Their powers don't get magnified, they get nerfed! How well is a squishy class going to do in a zone where his pet will be less powerful than any other mob out there. They can only do well when they charm a higher pet and bring it into area with lower mobs and they can't zone with their pets...And without pets, Spider nailed it-how is a coercer supposed to kill in pvp as the most "squishy" of classes when the only way they can do damage is to take damage?</p><p> Coercer's are a very tough class to play period. No conspiracy needed.</p>

Phea
12-13-2007, 09:41 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I dont see any problem here except someone upset that they lost in pvp.  </p><p>1. Charmed Pets can be a coercer's worst nightmare in pvp or pve!</p><p>2. There is already to many NPC mobs in the game that are immune to charm, mostly because people complain about them when they have never actually had to deal with the side effects of a charm gone bad.</p><p>3. As a coercer, too, I do research to find pets that suit my current pve/pvp needs.</p><p>4. As a coercer, too, I actually rarely lean on pets as I hate getting 1 shotted by my own pet during pvp. (yes it happens a lot, too, even with master charm spells and maxed charm aa)  How about I come here and post that Im sick of my 1 shotting pet busting charm and killing me when I am oh so close to winning the pvp fight!?!</p><p>5. Other professions dont have to deal with their damage output fighting back like a coercer does.  </p><p>6. That coercer whos pet got you, he earned his way into having the chance if even for a temporary time to charm that pet.  What do you think he does when that pet 1 shots him?  Have you any idea how many times that coercer has died and will die trying to get a powerful pet under control and keeping it under control?</p><p>7. Pet summoning classes (i.e. illusionist, conjurer, necromancer...) NEVER have a pet turn on them!  That is the challenge a coercer deals with in pvp and pve!</p></blockquote>Amen.We're nerfed enough. Our reactives and Psy Wail (and disabling/debuff spells) are really our only pride. I find that when I cast my silence and stuns that they usually get resisted since everyone that somes after me is usually orange and above. Why take even that away? A loss or two to a coercer pet is no reason to hop on the "NERF 'EM!!!" bandwagon. Srsly.We have to put up with a lot of crap from our charms breaking, our mezzes resisting, scouts backshotting, zerkers stabbing, etcetc.Dont be angry because we have spell lash/despotic mind.

Izzypop
12-14-2007, 03:14 AM
<cite>Wingfoott wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Whoa...what's with all the accusations Izzy? I think it was a fair and legitimate post that brought up a lot of good points, not a political campaign. I think you're bringing a bit too much of your personal business into this one. </p><p> Have you ever played a Coercer? <span style="color: #cc0000;">Yes I have. </span>They are very tough to play and have many challenges other classes do not face. Before the update where they started nerfing all the pets and making many many mobs "no-charm" it balanced out. Now, I'm not so sure, I think they definitely over-nerfed this one making way too many monsters no-charm when there is no reasons they should be. The comment you made about damage being magnified when a coercer charms a pet? Not in the 70 levels I've played through over the last year have I ever seen that. <span style="color: #cc0033;">You are either lying or are ignorant as to how to charmed pets yet in Kunzar jungle with disabling strike work.  I'm going to assume you are ingorant rather than call you a liar so here are the facts:  The fact is lizardmen in Kunzar are bugged and their disabling strike will hit players for 7 to 9k in PVP while disabling strike only does 2k tops in PVE combat</span>.  It's real simple. Charm a "random monster" turn that pet loose on the same "random monster" and the coercer's charmed "random monster" will die every time, even with all the DPS/Resistance buffs. Their powers don't get magnified, they get nerfed! <span style="color: #cc0000;">That's an excellent discription of how charmed pets work in PVE.  The topic however is how charmed pets with disabling strike in Kunzar Jungle work. Behold Exibit A from the OP</span></p><p> <img src="http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i102/Gromann/charmpet.jpg" alt="" width="539" height="198" border="0" /></p><p> How well is a squishy class going to do in a zone where his pet will be less powerful than any other mob out there. They can only do well when they charm a higher pet and bring it into area with lower mobs and they can't zone with their pets...And without pets, Spider nailed it-how is a coercer supposed to kill in pvp as the most "squishy" of classes when the only way they can do damage is to take damage?</p><p> Coercer's are a very tough class to play period. No conspiracy needed.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #cc0000;">I am not Nerfhearding Coercers.  </span></p><p><span style="color: #cc0000;">Coercers do not need to be nerfed.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;color: #cc0000;">The fact is blue con no arrow solo mobs will hit level 80's for 7 to 9k with disabling strike</span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;color: #cc0000;">Disabling strike only does 2k max in PVE.  This is a bug many coercers are constantly exploiting.</span></p><p><span style="color: #cc0000;">This is a bug that needs to be fixed.  </span></p><p><span style="font-size: xx-large;color: #cc0000;"><b>Do you any of you coercers honestly believe that no arrow solo blue con mobs should hit for 9k?</b></span></p><p><b><span style="font-size: xx-small;color: #cc0000;">Please answer that 1 simple question before going on about all the details of how the class is played.</span></b></p>

Izzypop
12-14-2007, 03:22 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I dont see any problem here except someone upset that they lost in pvp.  </p><p>1. Charmed Pets can be a coercer's worst nightmare in pvp or pve!</p><p>2. There is already to many NPC mobs in the game that are immune to charm, mostly because people complain about them when they have never actually had to deal with the side effects of a charm gone bad.</p><p>3. As a coercer, too, I do research to find pets that suit my current pve/pvp needs.</p><p>4. As a coercer, too, I actually rarely lean on pets as I hate getting 1 shotted by my own pet during pvp. (yes it happens a lot, too, even with master charm spells and maxed charm aa)  How about I come here and post that Im sick of my 1 shotting pet busting charm and killing me when I am oh so close to winning the pvp fight!?!</p><p>5. Other professions dont have to deal with their damage output fighting back like a coercer does.  </p><p>6. That coercer whos pet got you, he earned his way into having the chance if even for a temporary time to charm that pet.  What do you think he does when that pet 1 shots him?  Have you any idea how many times that coercer has died and will die trying to get a powerful pet under control and keeping it under control?</p><p>7. Pet summoning classes (i.e. illusionist, conjurer, necromancer...) NEVER have a pet turn on them!  That is the challenge a coercer deals with in pvp and pve!</p></blockquote><p>Amen.We're nerfed enough.</p><p> <img src="http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i102/Gromann/charmpet.jpg" alt="" width="539" height="198" border="0" /></p><p>Our reactives and Psy Wail (and disabling/debuff spells) are really our only pride. </p><p><img src="http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i102/Gromann/charmpet.jpg" alt="" width="539" height="198" border="0" /></p><p>I find that when I cast my silence and stuns that they usually get resisted since everyone that somes after me is usually orange and above. Why take even that away? A loss or two to a coercer pet is no reason to hop on the "NERF 'EM!!!" bandwagon. Srsly.</p><p><img src="http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i102/Gromann/charmpet.jpg" alt="" width="539" height="198" border="0" /> </p><p>We have to put up with a lot of crap from our charms breaking, our mezzes resisting, scouts backshotting, zerkers stabbing, etcetc.Dont be angry because we have spell lash/despotic mind.</p><p><b><span style="color: #cc0000;">And </span></b></p><p> <img src="http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i102/Gromann/charmpet.jpg" alt="" width="539" height="198" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p><b><span style="font-size: large;color: #cc0000;">I don't think any Coercer abilities should be nerfed.</span></b></p><p><b><span style="font-size: large;color: #cc0000;">My one and only simple humble request is for SOE to fix the bug involved with mobs that have disabling strike</span></b></p>

Groma
12-14-2007, 09:45 PM
I think a handful of you are taking a reply and associating it with me.  I'm a clothy, i got 1shotted by this pet, and the pvp target did not even know he was about to get beat down when his pet turned and 1shotted me.  Nothing is wrong with coercers having a charm ability, but something is wrong with pets becoming, in some cases, 8-10 times more powerful when they get charmed. 

Phea
12-15-2007, 03:22 PM
<cite>Gromann wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think a handful of you are taking a reply and associating it with me.  I'm a clothy, i got 1shotted by this pet, and the pvp target did not even know he was about to get beat down when his pet turned and 1shotted me.  Nothing is wrong with coercers having a charm ability, but something is wrong with pets becoming, in some cases, 8-10 times more powerful when they get charmed.  </blockquote>I think Izzy hit on the fact that the pets are BUGGED pretty well. We're associating very little with you.Either way, since youre a clothy, assuming youre an average-equipped type, youd probably die to a coercer of at least even con.But then again, you never know.