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View Full Version : What did SOE expect from a pvp system that as built on level locking and ganking?


Kulharr
12-08-2007, 04:01 PM
<p>The thing a lot of people aren't mentioning is that this is how pvp was introduced.  It was a system that only rewarded you for ganking, not casual pvp.  To get lvl 20 pvp rewards you need 600 kills.  Not possible to achieve WITHOUT level locking.  So basicly the pvp system was designed around the idea of level locking and mass ganking.  Level locking isn't that problem it's the way pvp is rewarded that's the problem.   The solutions are quite simple.</p><p>But honestly low level twinking isn't as much of a problem anymore now that Kunark treasured quest items obliterate any level 1-22 fabled gear from all the other zones combined... So anyone can do the Kunark quests and complete with twinkers... Atleast I can.</p><p>I think the solution should be quite simple.  Advance the system.  Put in pvp events, city wars, or quests such as espionauage or assassination missions into enemy cities, or a bounty system... all of these could reward fame, faction and status so you have more options beyond ganking till your blue in the face.  Or reduce the ammount of faction status needed for pvp rewards so it isn't so ridiculous that ganking as much as possible and as often as possible is required for them.</p><p>If your going to implement forced pvp combat xp then do it with stipulations.  Make it so you don't earn combat xp for simply defending yourself from attacks, make experience gain extremely low, no more than 1% and level should NOT matter otherwise people will just try and kill the lowest level players possible.  Maybe make it so your first few kills of the day don't give any xp ... or that you only earn xp if you hostile the same target more then once in say, the course of an hour.</p><p>   </p><p>   </p>

seahawk
12-09-2007, 02:23 AM
<p>really late, quoted my own post.. oops!</p><p>see below.</p>

seahawk
12-09-2007, 02:25 AM
<cite>seahawk91 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><b><span style="color: #990000;">The thing a lot of people aren't mentioning is that this is how pvp was introduced.  It was a system that only rewarded you for ganking, not casual pvp.  To get lvl 20 pvp rewards you need 600 kills.  Not possible to achieve WITHOUT level locking.  So basicly the pvp system was designed around the idea of level locking and mass ganking. </span></b> Level locking isn't that problem it's the way pvp is rewarded that's the problem.   The solutions are quite simple.</p><p>But honestly low level twinking isn't as much of a problem anymore now that Kunark treasured quest items obliterate any level 1-22 fabled gear from all the other zones combined... So anyone can do the Kunark quests and complete with twinkers... Atleast I can.</p><p>I think the solution should be quite simple.  Advance the system.  Put in pvp events, city wars, or quests such as espionauage or assassination missions into enemy cities, or a bounty system... all of these could reward fame, faction and status so you have more options beyond ganking till your blue in the face.  Or reduce the ammount of faction status needed for pvp rewards so it isn't so ridiculous that ganking as much as possible and as often as possible is required for them.</p><p>If your going to implement forced pvp combat xp then do it with stipulations.  Make it so you don't earn combat xp for simply defending yourself from attacks, make experience gain extremely low, no more than 1% and level should NOT matter otherwise people will just try and kill the lowest level players possible.  Maybe make it so your first few kills of the day don't give any xp ... or that you only earn xp if you hostile the same target more then once in say, the course of an hour.</p><p>   </p><p>   </p></blockquote></blockquote><p>Initially, the pvp rewards started at tier 5.  When you were able to buy the pvp merchandise with enough faction, the only pieces available were in tier 5.  It wasn't until later that they introduced lower level pvp rewards, which coincendently created the monster which was the locked tier 2 toons.</p><p>Trixee ---</p>

Snosael
12-09-2007, 06:05 AM
<p>Why is it such a terrible monster??</p><p> The way i see it, when T2 pvp rewards went in, it took off because ppl loved it.  It was popular, maybe so popular that T7s stopped playing their high lvl toons and came to play with us twinks.  Is that why i see so many lvl 70+s crying about T2?  They got left behind cause they weren't as fun to play with as twinks?</p><p>Only SOE can tell us if new accounts are quitting b4 their pvp toons lvl out of T2.  </p><p> Why are the high lvls so against T2 twinking?  It makes no sense to me.</p>

Snosael
12-09-2007, 06:17 AM
<p>Lets not forget that LvL locking was put in so players could control their pace and be able to keep playing with thier friends who may not be able to play as often as they could.  </p><p>Why should playing PvP end this?  Aren't we playing on PvP servers FOR PvP gameplay?</p><p> If SOE wants to offer the TRUE newbie (not some lvl 70s crybaby alt) then do just that!  There have been plenty of suggestions lately that would keep newbies from getting beat up and ganked.  Don't ruin the game for your existing paying customers when there are so many better ways to deal with this.</p>

Elephanton
12-09-2007, 07:50 AM
Snosael, this is the only way to deal with griefers which are driving new subscribers away from the game.And no one benefits when newbies are leaving.

Spyderbite
12-09-2007, 10:44 AM
<cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote>Snosael, this is the only way to deal with griefers which are driving new subscribers away from the game.And no one benefits when newbies are leaving.</blockquote>Well said. And, I'm sure the devs are quite aware that they're going to lose some players who used the low level PvP gear and locking as it was intended. Majority used the advantages of rewards to grief new players. So the only solution was to sacrifice a few to save many.I'm sure it takes little work for a developer to pull up people's kill logs and determine how many kills were newb and how many were equally matched fights. Even less time to jump in game, roll a new toon, level it to 10 and make a live determination of the seriously of the problem themselves.I have twinked out alts in T2 & T3. The far and few between battles I have are indeed fun. But, rarely do the twinks who are ganking newbs in the starter zones want to fight me. 4 out of 5 times, they run from me immediately. These are the people responsible for the change on Test. And, while unfortunately it punishes those who haven't taken advantage of the game mechanics, these twinks are the majority of low level twinks.

Diaul
12-09-2007, 11:21 AM
Level Locking made me unsubscribe from the game (im coming back now that its going to be removed).And before anyone accuses me of being a pvp wimp - I played Lineage 2 for 2 years which is a much more hardcore pvp game than this.The reason it makes new players leave is simple - when you start out on the pvp server's you are chainganked day and night by players that you have no hope of fighting back against. Level-lockers will of course say "just Level up" - but do they have any idea what its like for players starting out with the game/class to be killed constantly and not be able to hit back. You try ignoring the twinks they just keep killing you - many even when they are no longer getting a reward for it.First impressions count -  and for new players the impression is one of a completely unbalanced pvp system and that those in the pvp server are jerks.Now people can flame me for saying these things  - but the fact is any game needs to attract new players. Also anyone who enjoys GENUINE PVP (not locking their level so that they can gank new players and get easy kills) will welcome a change that attracts new players to fight with.Is it not better to win because of skill?

ckl
12-09-2007, 12:16 PM
<cite>Diaulan wrote:</cite><blockquote>Level Locking made me unsubscribe from the game (im coming back now that its going to be removed).And before anyone accuses me of being a pvp wimp - I played Lineage 2 for 2 years which is a much more hardcore pvp game than this.The reason it makes new players leave is simple - when you start out on the pvp server's you are chainganked day and night by players that you have no hope of fighting back against. Level-lockers will of course say "just Level up" - but do they have any idea what its like for players starting out with the game/class to be killed constantly and not be able to hit back. You try ignoring the twinks they just keep killing you - many even when they are no longer getting a reward for it.First impressions count -  and for new players the impression is one of a completely unbalanced pvp system and that those in the pvp server are jerks.Now people can flame me for saying these things  - but the fact is any game needs to attract new players. Also anyone who enjoys GENUINE PVP (not locking their level so that they can gank new players and get easy kills) will welcome a change that attracts new players to fight with.Is it not better to win because of skill?</blockquote>If you couldn't learn to gear up and complained, complained, complained, why would I welcome more whiners like yourself? Survival of the fittest--It's not my fault you couldn't find the 200 quests in Timorous Deep that give you insane T2 gear that in less than a week puts you on par with what most twinks took at least 2-3 weeks to accomplish.Lineage 2 was such a [I cannot control my vocabulary] game. Can't wait for your complaints to start anew once you hit T7-T8 and see what a REAL gear discrepancy is.

Diaul
12-09-2007, 03:59 PM
<cite>cklab wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Diaulan wrote:</cite><blockquote>Level Locking made me unsubscribe from the game (im coming back now that its going to be removed).And before anyone accuses me of being a pvp wimp - I played Lineage 2 for 2 years which is a much more hardcore pvp game than this.The reason it makes new players leave is simple - when you start out on the pvp server's you are chainganked day and night by players that you have no hope of fighting back against. Level-lockers will of course say "just Level up" - but do they have any idea what its like for players starting out with the game/class to be killed constantly and not be able to hit back. You try ignoring the twinks they just keep killing you - many even when they are no longer getting a reward for it.First impressions count -  and for new players the impression is one of a completely unbalanced pvp system and that those in the pvp server are jerks.Now people can flame me for saying these things  - but the fact is any game needs to attract new players. Also anyone who enjoys GENUINE PVP (not locking their level so that they can gank new players and get easy kills) will welcome a change that attracts new players to fight with.Is it not better to win because of skill?</blockquote>If you couldn't learn to gear up and complained, complained, complained, why would I welcome more whiners like yourself? Survival of the fittest--It's not my fault you couldn't find the 200 quests in Timorous Deep that give you insane T2 gear that in less than a week puts you on par with what most twinks took at least 2-3 weeks to accomplish.Lineage 2 was such a [I cannot control my vocabulary] game. Can't wait for your complaints to start anew once you hit T7-T8 and see what a REAL gear discrepancy is.</blockquote>I expected this kind of reply.Firstly - i didnt complain, complain,complain about level locking when I played earlier in the year. I quit - as did many other new players. That's why there are a lot less pvp servers now than when pvp launched in EQ2. Realistically speaking only Nagafen is left.Call me a whiner if you want to - but numbers dont lie. That's why SOE have made this change and will make other's to suit Whiners like me. It's called business.Thirdly I understand that there will be a discrepancy in gear between players. There is in every game. My point was that it shouldnt be so pronounced at early levels when new players are trying to find their feet. Finally, I understand that as you believe yourself to be more hardcore than me and therefore your opinion counts more than mine. But the fact remains that unless changes are made SOE will continue to lose subscribers.I'm not the only 'whiner' out there and dont expect me to be impressed by your notion that this game is only for you. All games need to adapt when exploits are used - and level locking has been used here as an exploit

Kulharr
12-09-2007, 04:25 PM
<p>Yes they need to make a change, but not this change.  This was never a problem at all until aa's became available at 10, and they introduced lvl 20 pvp rewards... Now they want to remove level locking all together for pvp thru all the tiers to compinsate for a system that adapted to encourage nothing but ganking as early on as possible.</p>

Elephanton
12-09-2007, 07:09 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm sure it takes little work for a developer to pull up people's kill logs and determine how many kills were newb and how many were equally matched fights. Even less time to jump in game, roll a new toon, level it to 10 and make a live determination of the seriously of the problem themselves.</blockquote><p>They don't even need to level it, they are devs your know... they can just create any char they like <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p><cite>Diaulan wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Level Locking made me unsubscribe from the game (im coming back now that its going to be removed).</blockquote><p>Welcome back - this is exactly why I think this change is great.Jerks are leaving, good folks are returning <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p><cite>cklab wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote>Snosael, this is the only way to deal with griefers which are driving new subscribers away from the game.And no one benefits when newbies are leaving.</blockquote>You're wrong.</blockquote><p>Absolutely, sir</p>

ladyvengeance
12-09-2007, 07:20 PM
<cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote>Snosael, <b>this is the only way</b> to deal with griefers which are driving new subscribers away from the game.And no one benefits when newbies are leaving.</blockquote>Completely and utterly wrong. Read the longer thread on here -- there have been several other suggestions that make a lot more sense.

Kulharr
12-09-2007, 07:41 PM
Saying it's the "only" way is very blind and ignorant.  Many players including myself have offered other, far better suggestions and ideas to curb lowbie ganking then this forced pvp xp crap... Just take a look in the initial post of this thread I made and you'll clearly see suggestions that don't involve your "only way"

KniteShayd
12-09-2007, 07:47 PM
<p>Agreed.</p><p> Please consider my suggestion:</p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=398231" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=398231</a></p><p><img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

Elephanton
12-09-2007, 07:50 PM
<cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote>Snosael, <b>this is the only way</b> to deal with griefers which are driving new subscribers away from the game.And no one benefits when newbies are leaving.</blockquote>Completely and utterly wrong. Read the longer thread on here -- there have been several other suggestions that make a lot more sense.</blockquote><i>Easiest</i> way to fix something is usually the best one.

ckl
12-09-2007, 07:58 PM
<cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote>Snosael, <b>this is the only way</b> to deal with griefers which are driving new subscribers away from the game.And no one benefits when newbies are leaving.</blockquote>Completely and utterly wrong. Read the longer thread on here -- there have been several other suggestions that make a lot more sense.</blockquote><i>Easiest</i> way to fix something is usually the best one.</blockquote>Funny. I'd heard the opposite.

Jeridor
12-09-2007, 08:04 PM
<p>You cannot say, "Because it has always been this way, it was intended to be this way."</p><p>You also cannot say, "Because it has always been this way, it must stay this way."</p><p>I think the bottom line is that one must consider the benefits of actions taken, and I believe there are real benefits in making it so that people cannot hover at a certain level at the maximum effective pvp power possible and gank everyone else ad nauseum.</p><p>I also think it's an incredibly ironic thing that I hear people talking about this as a "skillful"way to play. No, it's not. It's shooting fish in a barrel. Sure, you can brag you built the barrel and you can talk about how you set it all up so well, so masterfully, but you're still shooting fish in a barrel. That's not skill, that's a solution for people with a lack of skill, in fact.</p>

ckl
12-09-2007, 08:10 PM
<cite>[email protected] DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>You cannot say, "Because it has always been this way, it was intended to be this way."</p><p>You also cannot say, "Because it has always been this way, it must stay this way."</p><p>I think the bottom line is that one must consider the benefits of actions taken, and I believe there are real benefits in making it so that people cannot hover at a certain level at the maximum effective pvp power possible and gank everyone else ad nauseum.</p><p>I also think it's an incredibly ironic thing that I hear people talking about this as a "skillful"way to play. No, it's not. It's shooting fish in a barrel. Sure, you can brag you built the barrel and you can talk about how you set it all up so well, so masterfully, but you're still shooting fish in a barrel. That's not skill, that's a solution for people with a lack of skill, in fact.</p></blockquote>If you knew anything about our playstyle you'd know we do it not to kill random green people repeatedly, but to fight random others who have geared themselves up similarly.

Tae
12-09-2007, 08:12 PM
<cite>[email protected] DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote> That's not skill, that's a solution for people with a lack of skill, in fact.</blockquote>The thing is, the level lockers always say that they do it because they believe if they level to T8 they themselves will get destroyed by people who have much better gear. Ignoring the fact that there's proper PvP gear at T8 and tons of legendary/fabled quest rewards, if they feel like that how do they think the newbies feel when they're dying even faster than an MC 80 does against a fully fabled one? Worst is that most of the newbies will die and not even realise why they're being killed so easily. I know I didn't when I was new, and that was on Darathar with barely any people.

ckl
12-09-2007, 08:23 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote> That's not skill, that's a solution for people with a lack of skill, in fact.</blockquote>The thing is, the level lockers always say that they do it because they believe if they level to T8 they themselves will get destroyed by people who have much better gear. Ignoring the fact that there's proper PvP gear at T8 and tons of legendary/fabled quest rewards, if they feel like that how do they think the newbies feel when they're dying even faster than an MC 80 does against a fully fabled one? Worst is that most of the newbies will die and not even realise why they're being killed so easily. I know I didn't when I was new, and that was on Darathar with barely any people.</blockquote>Oh let me do another honor grind like in WoW. No thanks. And yeah, there is a difference between that and staying at T2 for a while (or longer) to get enough faction for the T3 PVP gear: about 65 levels now and tons more questing and killing nameds for AAs. At least now it takes very little effort to get either regular mastercrafted items, or the new RoK T2 quest rewards. That's not fun to me, which is why I stopped my dirge at 40 and mostly play my swashbuckler. I enjoy the low level PVP enough not to have to worry about much more PVE. This is probably is a common sentiment.

Muraazi
12-09-2007, 08:54 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>Saying it's the "only" way is very blind and ignorant.  Many players including myself have offered other, far better suggestions and ideas to curb lowbie ganking then this forced pvp xp crap... Just take a look in the initial post of this thread I made and you'll clearly see suggestions that don't involve your "only way"</blockquote><p>Maybe those suggestions should have came in alittle earlier, and "you" guys should have done more than the common reply of level passed it noobs or stop whining and L2P.</p><p>Now, I'll say it..... ready for it? here goes...</p><p>Stop whining...</p>

Muraazi
12-09-2007, 08:55 PM
<cite>cklab wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote> That's not skill, that's a solution for people with a lack of skill, in fact.</blockquote>The thing is, the level lockers always say that they do it because they believe if they level to T8 they themselves will get destroyed by people who have much better gear. Ignoring the fact that there's proper PvP gear at T8 and tons of legendary/fabled quest rewards, if they feel like that how do they think the newbies feel when they're dying even faster than an MC 80 does against a fully fabled one?Worst is that most of the newbies will die and not even realise why they're being killed so easily. I know I didn't when I was new, and that was on Darathar with barely any people.</blockquote>Oh let me do another honor grind like in WoW. No thanks. And yeah, there is a difference between that and staying at T2 for a while (or longer) to get enough faction for the T3 PVP gear: about 65 levels now and tons more questing and killing nameds for AAs. At least now it takes very little effort to get either regular mastercrafted items, or the new RoK T2 quest rewards. That's not fun to me, which is why I stopped my dirge at 40 and mostly play my swashbuckler. I enjoy the low level PVP enough not to have to worry about much more PVE. This is probably is a common sentiment.</blockquote>Oh ok, so you want it with little effort. Check.

ckl
12-09-2007, 09:01 PM
<cite>Muraazi wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>cklab wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote> That's not skill, that's a solution for people with a lack of skill, in fact.</blockquote>The thing is, the level lockers always say that they do it because they believe if they level to T8 they themselves will get destroyed by people who have much better gear. Ignoring the fact that there's proper PvP gear at T8 and tons of legendary/fabled quest rewards, if they feel like that how do they think the newbies feel when they're dying even faster than an MC 80 does against a fully fabled one?Worst is that most of the newbies will die and not even realise why they're being killed so easily. I know I didn't when I was new, and that was on Darathar with barely any people.</blockquote>Oh let me do another honor grind like in WoW. No thanks. And yeah, there is a difference between that and staying at T2 for a while (or longer) to get enough faction for the T3 PVP gear: about 65 levels now and tons more questing and killing nameds for AAs. At least now it takes very little effort to get either regular mastercrafted items, or the new RoK T2 quest rewards. That's not fun to me, which is why I stopped my dirge at 40 and mostly play my swashbuckler. I enjoy the low level PVP enough not to have to worry about much more PVE. This is probably is a common sentiment.</blockquote>Oh ok, so you want it with little effort. Check.</blockquote>Little revolving effort, maybe. Other than occasionally having to make more potions, poisons and food/drink.I've already done a bit of questing, named killing, harvesting and crafting to get my character where he is, so to say I want it with little effort is ludicrous.

ladyvengeance
12-09-2007, 09:11 PM
<cite>Muraazi wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>Saying it's the "only" way is very blind and ignorant.  Many players including myself have offered other, far better suggestions and ideas to curb lowbie ganking then this forced pvp xp crap... Just take a look in the initial post of this thread I made and you'll clearly see suggestions that don't involve your "only way"</blockquote><p>Maybe those suggestions should have came in alittle earlier, and "you" guys should have done more than the common reply of level passed it noobs or stop whining and L2P.</p><p>Now, I'll say it..... ready for it? here goes...</p><p>Stop whining...</p></blockquote><p>I'll say it again: It was whining that caused this stupid change. Thus, by that logic, whining should prevent it.</p>

Crimson Lord
12-09-2007, 09:47 PM
Ok i have kept quiet long enough when i read the latest updates about disable combat xp I was throughly disgusted. So I guess all the crying worked eh all you babies out in the eq world. You guys talk about how your always ganked blah blah blah, well maybe if you thought things through throughly you can find ways to stick it to your opposing side. I play on veneknor and i had absolutely no problem twinking myself out i could grind my aa and not be "griefed" which all you babies out there seemed to think is happening to you every 5 mins or some BS. Granted Veneknor is not a heavily populated zoned, so when my friends wanted to give naggy a whirl i thought to myself cool more pvp. I have started on naggy with NOTHING! yet instead of whining to the dervs about being ganked constantly I said well i know the moment I hit 10 the war begins so as long as i stay under 10 work on my crafting harvest my rares so when I DO become pvp eligible I am not running around with treasured crap. If you got such a big problem with being ganked so much here is thought GET SOME FRIENDS! My god isn't that what the game is for to make friends [I cannot control my vocabulary] make some get a traveling group. There are so many different ways to get around having to be ganked constantly hell if your a freep farm in ruins only problem u have to do is worry about is other freeps who I have to say there is alot of greedy [I cannot control my vocabulary] in ruins and farm yourself some masters doesn't take very high of a level and i have yet to see a q in the ruins in the days I have spent there farming.Making people get xp from pvp kills is the dumbest concept ever thought of, I have a t8 toon i don't want another, i don't want to be forced to level i like keeping toons in every tier. I like the fact that i don't have 30 freaking spells to choose from in t2. So sony wants to once again tell me how to play the game I pay every month to play.Maybe if you guys took the time to properly develop your toons you would not be complaining so [Removed for Content] much. I spend weeks developing my toon right i find ways around the gank fest which seems to happen alot to all the people who are complaining about lockers. If your being ganked so much heres another thought FIND A DIFFERENT ZONE! Harvesting/farming in graveyard and sunken city their outlets to commonlands so naturally your probably gonna have issues with  farming or harvesting in those zones but not every zone is like that you just need to find the zones that are not always contested and stick with the zones for a while. bottom line is your gonna get ganked has happened to the best of us DEAL WITH IT and stop your whining

Rutaq
12-09-2007, 10:28 PM
<cite>cklab wrote:</cite> <blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] DLere wrote:</cite></p><p><cite></cite>If you knew anything about our playstyle you'd know we do it not to kill random green people repeatedly, but to fight random others who have geared themselves up similarly. </p></blockquote><p> Well if the greater majority of the other lockers shared your view and spared random green people then there wouldn't have been such an out cry that encouraged the DEVs to limit locking.</p>

convict
12-09-2007, 11:24 PM
<blockquote><cite>cklab wrote:</cite> <blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] DLere wrote:</cite></p><p><b>If you knew anything about our playstyle you'd know we do it not to kill random green people repeatedly, but to fight random others who have geared themselves up similarly.</b> </p></blockquote></blockquote>hahaha thats funny.. Then why do ALL the twinks we attack run, unless they have us 6 vs 2?

ladyvengeance
12-09-2007, 11:35 PM
<cite>Rutaq wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>cklab wrote:</cite> <blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] DLere wrote:</cite></p><p><cite></cite>If you knew anything about our playstyle you'd know we do it not to kill random green people repeatedly, but to fight random others who have geared themselves up similarly. </p></blockquote><p> Well if the greater majority of the other lockers shared your view and spared random green people then there wouldn't have been such an out cry that encouraged the DEVs to limit locking.</p></blockquote><p>Oh get real. The "outcry" (aka whining) came mostly from T7 people who think that everyone should level so they have more people to gank. I doubt many noobs even know about these forums. I know I didn't.  </p><p>I will kill any freep that I see. Green, orange, red, yellow, blue - the color makes no difference. You're a freep? Then you must die. I don't make a habit of killing them over and over again - there's really no point to that.</p>

tass
12-10-2007, 12:33 AM
lol at least someone here doesn't talk out of their [Removed for Content]. Oh ya I don't kill a green if I see them. I honor their determination to quest hard. BWAHAHAHA Either way its both ends whining. 1 for [Removed for Content] off that many newbies, and 2 with all of the higher levels getting in fights of why people should level up.  Personally I think the whole change to level locking was stupid. Why do that when you can just make ffa. [Removed for Content] you devs make a ffa for a$$ [email protected]*^ng every which way possible.

ckl
12-10-2007, 01:12 AM
<cite>Rutaq wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>cklab wrote:</cite> <blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] DLere wrote:</cite></p><p><cite></cite>If you knew anything about our playstyle you'd know we do it not to kill random green people repeatedly, but to fight random others who have geared themselves up similarly. </p></blockquote><p> Well if the greater majority of the other lockers shared your view and spared random green people then there wouldn't have been such an out cry that encouraged the DEVs to limit locking.</p></blockquote>Didn't say I spared green people. I don't repeatedly kill them if they're on my recent is all. Once in a blue moon I'll take pity on them and pull off, but most times they just follow me still attacking. I'll then turn around and finish them to unnerf my run speed.<cite>convict wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote><cite>cklab wrote:</cite> <blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] DLere wrote:</cite></p><p><b>If you knew anything about our playstyle you'd know we do it not to kill random green people repeatedly, but to fight random others who have geared themselves up similarly.</b> </p></blockquote></blockquote>hahaha thats funny.. Then why do ALL the twinks we attack run, unless they have us 6 vs 2?</blockquote>We? I can't speak for others, but, since I almost exclusively solo, if I were attacked by a group whose members have any inclination of what they're doing, I'd run, too. I wouldn't run if the odds were 6v2 in my favor. That'd be crazy. Not like it happens all that often for me on Nagafen.

ckl
12-10-2007, 01:13 AM
<cite>tass wrote:</cite><blockquote>lol at least someone here doesn't talk out of their [I cannot control my vocabulary]. <b>Oh ya I don't kill a green if I see them. I honor their determination to quest hard. </b>BWAHAHAHA Either way its both ends whining. 1 for [Removed for Content] off that many newbies, and 2 with all of the higher levels getting in fights of why people should level up.  Personally I think the whole change to level locking was stupid. Why do that when you can just make ffa. [I cannot control my vocabulary] you devs make a ffa for [I cannot control my vocabulary] [email protected]*^ng every which way possible. </blockquote>I'm gonna exchange the ever so dreadful l2p with a new one: l2r (that's right, learn to read).

Murrdawg69
12-10-2007, 12:46 PM
<p>LOL I can't believe how much people cry, do people think they will live longer or escape ganking squads even if they implement PvP exp? You will still die, no matter how much you cry to SoE for changes to make the game "more even". By implementing pvp exp your gonna get ganked more often and repetatively cause when you think about it all the locks are gonna be ticked off even more and kill anything they see, may as well Sony basically forcing us up to lvl 80 no matter what. OH and did people realize that they will be going against "pvp geared twinks t3+" no matter what your level is if you make a new character after changes you CAN'T have pvp gear until lvl 45+++ thats without questing Exp.. So people now need to make the choice whether to hunt pvp strictly and get pvp gear by t5 or to just simply run from all pvp or die without killing anyone and have possibly max AA...I mean if it were me personally just in order to survive what people already have on their characters I will need to avoid pvp alltogether and just focus on AA... I mean its literally the end to pvp, only people that will be pvping are those that don't care or those that already have max everything. I quite frankly have a few toons made that are in that boat of already being equipped, but with SoE forcing me out of the tiers in which "I like" to pvp (and we're not talking t2) everyone always assumes that when ppl dont want pvp exp its for t2 only.. In fact I like t3 and t4 pvp waaaaaaay more than t7+ just because you don't need to go looking for pvp there is usually always some to stumble upon... Now that being said pvp was turned to a scouts game of infamy.. Only because they can remember peoples names avoid those who are stronger and kill those who they know has the infamy to take. Also for any new characters to pvp slayers will be the only ranks in t4++ Cause it will literally be impossible to find enough destroyers or champs who aren't in a pvp raid to protect their "precious titles" </p><p>That's my 2cents anyway, by SoE forcing me out of the tiers I like to play the game brings nothing for me, why would i just want to strictly level? Do people not have specific playing styles that they like, which by the way change dramatically from tier to tier... I for one will be removing the game when this happens, only tier that was extremely broken was t2 and for them to change every tier is just dumb, its all over stupid lvl 70-80 players that complain theres not enough pvp for them to have fun.. well thats their own fault for grinding to 80 and missing the fun tiers... Fun tiers to me are the only ones you dont need to group or raid in just to pvp.. T8 is extremely difficult for any class to solo pvp unless you stumble upon a good spot where ppl like to go, other than that its now a scouts game imo. So looks like im in search of a new game until SoE comes to their senses and realizes what a bad idea adding pvp exp would be. Won't take long about as long as it took ppl to cry about t2..</p>

seahawk
12-10-2007, 12:59 PM
<cite>Murrdawg69 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>LOL I can't believe how much people cry, do people think they will live longer or escape ganking squads even if they implement PvP exp? You will still die, no matter how much you cry to SoE for changes to make the game "more even". By implementing pvp exp your gonna get ganked more often and repetatively cause when you think about it all the locks are gonna be ticked off even more and kill anything they see, may as well Sony basically forcing us up to lvl 80 no matter what. OH and did people realize that they will be going against "pvp geared twinks t3+" no matter what your level is if you make a new character after changes you CAN'T have pvp gear until lvl 45+++ thats without questing Exp.. So people now need to make the choice whether to hunt pvp strictly and get pvp gear by t5 or to just simply run from all pvp or die without killing anyone and have possibly max AA...I mean if it were me personally just in order to survive what people already have on their characters<b><i><span style="color: #cc0000;"> I will need to avoid pvp alltogether and just focus on AA</span></i></b>... I mean its literally the <b><i><span style="color: #cc0000;">end to pvp</span></i></b>, only people that will be pvping are those that don't care or those that already have max everything. I quite frankly have a few toons made that are in that boat of already being equipped, but with SoE forcing me out of the tiers in which "I like" to pvp (and we're not talking t2) everyone always assumes that when ppl dont want pvp exp its for t2 only.. <span style="color: #cc0000;"><b><i>In fact I like t3 and t4 pvp</i></b> </span>waaaaaaay more than t7+ just because you don't need to go looking for pvp there is usually always some to stumble upon... Now that being said pvp was turned to a scouts game of infamy.. Only because they can remember peoples names avoid those who are stronger and kill those who they know has the infamy to take. Also for any new characters to pvp slayers will be the only ranks in t4++ Cause it will literally be impossible to find enough destroyers or champs who aren't in a pvp raid to protect their "precious titles" </p><p>That's my 2cents anyway, by SoE forcing me out of the tiers I like to play the game brings nothing for me, why would i just want to strictly level? Do people not have specific playing styles that they like, which by the way change dramatically from tier to tier... <b><i><span style="color: #cc0000;">I for one will be removing the game when this happens,</span></i></b> <span style="color: #cc0000;"><b><i>only tier that was extremely broken was t2</i></b> </span>and for them to change every tier is just dumb, its all over stupid lvl 70-80 players that complain theres not enough pvp for them to have fun.. well thats their own fault for grinding to 80 and missing the fun tiers... Fun tiers to me are the only ones you dont need to group or raid in just to pvp.. T8 is extremely difficult for any class to solo pvp unless you stumble upon a good spot where ppl like to go, other than that its now a scouts game imo. So looks like im in search of a new game until SoE comes to their senses and realizes what a bad idea adding pvp exp would be. Won't take long about as long as it took ppl to cry about t2..</p></blockquote><p>Here's a thought, why don't you wait till the update goes live and see <b><i>EXACTLY</i></b> how much exp you get for a solo kill?  If you are already in t3/4 then I bet the exp gain is minimal, almost negligible.  If you have profit UI, unlock your bar for a kill, and find out how much exp you get right now.  I know in tier 8 I get .1 percent for a solo kill.  That is 1000 solo kills to level.  I highly doubt you will have to "<b><i>avoid</i></b>" pvp, just to focus on AA so you don't level too quickly.</p><p>you mentioned that the only tier that was "extremely broken" (using your words) was tier 2, this fix fix's that tier while having a minimal impact on the following tiers.  As you <b><i>eventually</i></b>, get into tier 5 the pvp kills will be so low for exp, you will essentially be a locked toon just like before.</p>

sokil
12-10-2007, 01:29 PM
<p>I do not (intentionally)  lvl lock so is no problem with me. I do say that I have witness the ganking of newbies in island gear (made a lowbie alt to watch and  incpect gear) and when I said something they bascially told me to go "f" myself that they wil kill anyone they want whenever they wish. yea, go ahead its your subscription fee but I would like to see new players stay and one way is to have them stay is to put  a lot of time and effort lvling to 40 or more so that when the ganking starts they have so much time invested they do not stop playing. </p><p>so far I think its a great idea SOE had and I hope it works. if not, they can always change it back. Let the number of players decide who is correct. Give it a chance. I will wait for all the gankers locked at lvl 80<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> please hurry.</p><p>Out of 4 long time players that came to my pvp server from a blue server after ROK came out. only one remains due to ganking/greifing etc. I hope he can make it because soon he will be questing in EL the new gank fest capital of norath. Best wishes to all new players:0 please give it a chance and take a lot of deep breaths before you hit the revive button.</p>

Mutant
12-10-2007, 01:36 PM
<blockquote><p>Here's a thought, why don't you wait till the update goes live and see <b><i>EXACTLY</i></b> how much exp you get for a solo kill?  If you are already in t3/4 then I bet the exp gain is minimal, almost negligible.  If you have profit UI, unlock your bar for a kill, and find out how much exp you get right now.  I know in tier 8 I get .1 percent for a solo kill.  That is 1000 solo kills to level.  I highly doubt you will have to "<b><i>avoid</i></b>" pvp, just to focus on AA so you don't level too quickly.</p><p>you mentioned that the only tier that was "extremely broken" (using your words) was tier 2, this fix fix's that tier while having a minimal impact on the following tiers.  As you <b><i>eventually</i></b>, get into tier 5 the pvp kills will be so low for exp, you will essentially be a locked toon just like before.</p></blockquote><p>This is a good point, and I don't see why no one understands you won't be forced to level to 80 lol. Lets say you average the xp for each pvp kill from lvl 30 to 80 at .5% per pk. So thats 200 kills to level once, with 50 levels x 200 = 10,000 kills + the kills you got up to 30.</p><p>If you ever make it to 80, grats you are now in the top 100 for kill counts for everyone across all pvp servers. But i'm sure everyone will just level to 80 so fast and get 10,000 kills in a weekend and never be able to stay in a level range ever again for any amount of time !!!</p><p>P.S. Max out AA's at a low level then maintain the cap each level with a few quests and nameds, it will still take forever to level.</p>

Elephanton
12-10-2007, 03:24 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote><p>Here's a thought, why don't you wait till the update goes live and see <b><i>EXACTLY</i></b> how much exp you get for a solo kill?  If you are already in t3/4 then I bet the exp gain is minimal, almost negligible.  If you have profit UI, unlock your bar for a kill, and find out how much exp you get right now.  I know in tier 8 I get .1 percent for a solo kill.  That is 1000 solo kills to level.  I highly doubt you will have to "<b><i>avoid</i></b>" pvp, just to focus on AA so you don't level too quickly.</p><p>you mentioned that the only tier that was "extremely broken" (using your words) was tier 2, this fix fix's that tier while having a minimal impact on the following tiers.  As you <b><i>eventually</i></b>, get into tier 5 the pvp kills will be so low for exp, you will essentially be a locked toon just like before.</p></blockquote><p>This is a good point, and I don't see why no one understands you won't be forced to level to 80 lol. Lets say you average the xp for each pvp kill from lvl 30 to 80 at .5% per pk. So thats 200 kills to level once, with 50 levels x 200 = 10,000 kills + the kills you got up to 30.</p><p>If you ever make it to 80, grats you are now in the top 100 for kill counts for everyone across all pvp servers. But i'm sure everyone will just level to 80 so fast and get 10,000 kills in a weekend and never be able to stay in a level range ever again for any amount of time !!!</p><p>P.S. Max out AA's at a low level then maintain the cap each level with a few quests and nameds, it will still take forever to level.</p></blockquote><p>This is very true, I am not sure why people fail to understand such obvious facts.Probably because the REAL thing they want is EZmode running OP class locked at 14 and grief newbs. Which is not gonna work for them any longer.</p><p>BTW I tested it yesterday, I was 25 and I killed 27 in a solo fight, I got a bit over 5% XP for this kill (it was doubleXP due to vitality).At the same time, on T5 XP bar barely moves when you kill a player in PVP... not talking about further tiers... so it would be loooooooooong way to 80 leveling by just PVPing, I tell ya, very very long.</p>

tequiero
12-10-2007, 03:53 PM
<cite>cklab wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>You cannot say, "Because it has always been this way, it was intended to be this way."</p><p>You also cannot say, "Because it has always been this way, it must stay this way."</p><p>I think the bottom line is that one must consider the benefits of actions taken, and I believe there are real benefits in making it so that people cannot hover at a certain level at the maximum effective pvp power possible and gank everyone else ad nauseum.</p><p>I also think it's an incredibly ironic thing that I hear people talking about this as a "skillful"way to play. No, it's not. It's shooting fish in a barrel. Sure, you can brag you built the barrel and you can talk about how you set it all up so well, so masterfully, but you're still shooting fish in a barrel. That's not skill, that's a solution for people with a lack of skill, in fact.</p></blockquote><b><i>If you knew anything about our playstyle you'd know we do it not to kill random green people repeatedly, but to fight random others who have geared themselves up similarly.</i></b> </blockquote>  Well the problem is not you then   the problems is for the other that kill peopel over and over and over,  just cause they can if you bit/ching about  gear and  c-rap then lvl to 80 and if your responce to that is i want to   get aa then do quest , if your responce is i want to  take my time  lock and  kill peopel should be slow enough, if your responce is well i suck at higher lvl and i cant kill people that  actually  know there classes better than me and i want to cry liek the people that i am killing  at  t2, then quit the [Removed for Content] game

Bloodfa
12-10-2007, 03:57 PM
Awwww .... now ya went and did it.  Ya [Removed for Content] off Micegirl.  Hide.  Fast.

tequiero
12-10-2007, 03:58 PM
<cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote><p>Here's a thought, why don't you wait till the update goes live and see <b><i>EXACTLY</i></b> how much exp you get for a solo kill?  If you are already in t3/4 then I bet the exp gain is minimal, almost negligible.  If you have profit UI, unlock your bar for a kill, and find out how much exp you get right now.  I know in tier 8 I get .1 percent for a solo kill.  That is 1000 solo kills to level.  I highly doubt you will have to "<b><i>avoid</i></b>" pvp, just to focus on AA so you don't level too quickly.</p><p>you mentioned that the only tier that was "extremely broken" (using your words) was tier 2, this fix fix's that tier while having a minimal impact on the following tiers.  As you <b><i>eventually</i></b>, get into tier 5 the pvp kills will be so low for exp, you will essentially be a locked toon just like before.</p></blockquote><p>This is a good point, and I don't see why no one understands you won't be forced to level to 80 lol. Lets say you average the xp for each pvp kill from lvl 30 to 80 at .5% per pk. So thats 200 kills to level once, with 50 levels x 200 = 10,000 kills + the kills you got up to 30.</p><p>If you ever make it to 80, grats you are now in the top 100 for kill counts for everyone across all pvp servers. But i'm sure everyone will just level to 80 so fast and get 10,000 kills in a weekend and never be able to stay in a level range ever again for any amount of time !!!</p><p>P.S. Max out AA's at a low level then maintain the cap each level with a few quests and nameds, it will still take forever to level.</p></blockquote><p>This is very true, I am not sure why people fail to understand such obvious facts.Probably because the REAL thing they want is EZmode running OP class locked at 14 and grief newbs. Which is not gonna work for them any longer.</p><p>BTW I tested it yesterday, I was 25 and I killed 27 in a solo fight, I got a bit over 5% XP for this kill (it was doubleXP due to vitality).At the same time, on T5 XP bar barely moves when you kill a player in PVP... not talking about further tiers... so it would be loooooooooong way to 80 leveling by just PVPing, I tell ya, very very long.</p></blockquote>yeah that what i find it funny that people are crying about it, its not liek they gonna get 10% per kill or even 3% kill.

voxranger
12-10-2007, 04:10 PM
<cite>cklab wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>You cannot say, "Because it has always been this way, it was intended to be this way."</p><p>You also cannot say, "Because it has always been this way, it must stay this way."</p><p>I think the bottom line is that one must consider the benefits of actions taken, and I believe there are real benefits in making it so that people cannot hover at a certain level at the maximum effective pvp power possible and gank everyone else ad nauseum.</p><p>I also think it's an incredibly ironic thing that I hear people talking about this as a "skillful"way to play. No, it's not. It's shooting fish in a barrel. Sure, you can brag you built the barrel and you can talk about how you set it all up so well, so masterfully, but you're still shooting fish in a barrel. That's not skill, that's a solution for people with a lack of skill, in fact.</p></blockquote>If you knew anything about our playstyle you'd know we do it not to kill random green people repeatedly, but to fight random others who have geared themselves up similarly. </blockquote>This might be true for you, but for the majority of twinked locked teens this comment is completely b.s.  It's all about protecting faction and titles and you know it.

Trouserwaffles
12-10-2007, 06:19 PM
<p>Personally I think it's the best news ever. I don't play on pvp anymore due to old friends coming back to my old PvE server ( Friends > killing random people ). Yeah it's eq2 wiffleball style, but I don't care what you say. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>As far as the original argument goes (based on how Sony designed pvp...) However it was designed in the beginning doesn't make it right. Even for the time period where we had AA's from 10+ and xp debt to 50%...  which created beasts. Yeah yeah, I was a lvl locker too, but that got old.</p><p>And to the crybabies, it's not the end of the world. I'm sure your KvD ratio will be fine, and untouched (based on your uber skill,... right? right?). </p><p>...right. </p><p>  (disregard my sig as it's very outdated..)</p>

Kulharr
12-12-2007, 03:44 PM
<p>This a lazy and bad approach to fix the problem.  if they actually put some "effort" and "thought" into fixing the problem we might have a fix that would make everyone happy.  not make half the people happy, and the other half consider quiting.  but we are a pvp server in a pve game and we unfortunatly get the short end of the stick when it comes to improvements...</p><p>if I get more then 1% after killing a player, consider my account closed.</p><p>UPDATE:</p><p>Level 16 kills a level 20 and gets 13% xp... Yep, I'm closing my account.  I also had 5 potential friends who were starting up a guild with me in December who will also not be returning.</p>

Elephanton
12-12-2007, 06:44 PM
<p>Bye, take care.Just FYI I have 10 "potential friends" (LOL) that are coming back to EQ2 now with this change in place.</p>

Kalyai
12-12-2007, 07:00 PM
<cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Bye, take care.Just FYI I have 10 "potential friends" (LOL) that are coming back to EQ2 now with this change in place.</p></blockquote><p>I'm jealous <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I don't have "potential friends" i only have "potential acquaintances"</p><p>Can you share some of those potential friends with me??</p><p>*bats her eyelashes*</p>

TehDrunkenFury
12-12-2007, 07:27 PM
t8 zones aren't PvP enabled. So it's understandable that you lockers are upset. It's extremely easy to walk around RoK solo. Plus this new level cap, and the new legendary gear being nearly as good as the fabled. Why would anyone want to be t8?

Eluzay
12-12-2007, 09:54 PM
maybe soe finally figured out why eq1 was so popular, because it was not easy. Level locked pvp is easymode=on see ya all you lockers, enjoy whatever other easy mode game you find next.

Duckman
12-12-2007, 10:05 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>maybe soe finally figured out why eq1 was so popular, because it was not easy. Level locked pvp is easymode=on see ya all you lockers, enjoy whatever other easy mode game you find next.</blockquote>I'm all for the changes, but do you have any idea how much more painful twinks were in EQ1?  People used to de-level their characters down from 65 to kill noobs all night-a de-leveled rogue could basically one shot anyone.  Merely throwing a fungi tunic and a couple of jade maces on a low level monk would basically render any defense useless in that game.  Beyond that, the sheer number of zero-delay, warp to target hacks in that game make the red server a complete easymode joke for the cheaters.  Running around with fabled gear and M1 abilities has nothing on that carnage.  But seriously-I can't wait to level up and see the rest of RoK. =)

Kulharr
12-12-2007, 10:33 PM
<p>Yah great change.  I'll be level 70 by the time I'm able to use lvl 20 pvp rewards if I stick purley to pvp combat, given the ridiculous pvp experience you gain.   You can no longer pvp and dop quests to get aa's, rewards and see the world content.</p><p> At any rate my account is closed, have fun with your "race to end game to pvp" as pvp/pve will pretty much be non existant from tier 1-7 now as everyone is in a race to end game.... No really point in questing and doing the mid range content as they'll be no one to pvp.</p>

HerbertWalker
12-13-2007, 02:45 AM
<p>You can all pvp against me on your way through T5.   Bring it on with your fallen T2 god character.</p><p>Hurry though - if I kill too many people, I will obsolete my toon just like you, and it too will become a fallen T4 god wizard.</p><p>This game now has very limited replayability for a four year veteran.</p>