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View Full Version : What's with the stupid entering combat by doing xxx stuff?


Errol10
12-08-2007, 03:18 AM
You have entered into combat by casting Berserk on yourself while fighting XXX.Please? I've heard garbage about shamans' group mit/small regenning ward doing this.. which is admittedly stupid, but at least there's some kind of HEALING involved there (but stupid all the same because it's uncontrollable).Meanwhile, berserk is just a haste/dps boost.  What other stuff is out there, apparently sitting around unfixed?

KannaWhoopass
12-08-2007, 03:49 AM
<p>Im a healer </p><p>i get kill ALL the time by ..fighting a mob </p><p>im a warden i have Hots on me thr whole time ... one arrow from 40 m and Bam im in combat .. </p><p>Its garbage </p><p>As a healer .. im saying untill you cast a hostile spell .. you aint in combat</p><p>Like it was ... and now when scouts can burn you down in 4 seconds .. go back to out of combat healing cause this @@@@ with puting me in combat cause im fighting another mob is BS</p>

Dojac
12-08-2007, 06:41 AM
Don't know if you know this but if you cast ANYTHING after an enemy combatant hits you it puts you into combat.  Even if you're casting on a mob.  Can't count the number of times I've been locked into a PvP fight because I cast on a mob.  On top of being throw into pvp combat you also take damage to your armor once you die.  I wish it was either one way or the other.  You get tossed into PvP thus taking no damage to your armor or make it like having an add where your armor is damaged but you don't lose anything for dieing.  I expects it would have to be option A because ppl could run around hitting low lvl mobs to not lose fame.

KannaWhoopass
12-08-2007, 07:00 AM
Yes but i dont cast thats the thing ... i have 20 seconds hots on me ..

Errol10
12-08-2007, 08:03 AM
Actually, I don't think that's true. I was killing mobs at the time - it wasn't until berserk triggered off of one of his hits that I saw the enter combat message.  Now, anything that buffs your self.. maybe that's true. As I could see it being interpreted as 'unfair' that a fury could use pact of the cheetah without entering combat, or a berserker/guardian could throw up MIT buffs.  But, there's still things that give an advantage in evading ganks that don't factor in here so I really question the 'fairness' of this.Certainly ooc healing is unfair, but I think that everyone can agree that a 30% chance to get some damage/haste really isn't, and that being put into combat for that (and things like the shaman group mit/ward thing that always is on) is unfair.  If lambent rejuvenation is going while you're fighting mobs, and you are struck in pvp, does that put you into combat?

Dreamo
12-08-2007, 08:26 AM
<p>ANY beneficial effect puts you in combat. No matter if it's your buff proc, your gear proc, you casted it on purpose, didn't cast it on purpose it doesn't matter. If it is beneficial to you or your allies you enter combat end of the story. It works as intended so stop crying about it.</p>

Norrsken
12-08-2007, 08:49 AM
Lich puts necros in combat when the power regen on it happens.Quite annying when flying on carpets in SS, cause it causes you to get bugged so if you ride the maj dul one you get bounced off the zoneline and end up hanging in mid air not being able to do anything but /exit. OR if you try to jump off, you also end up in mid air.

Roald
12-08-2007, 08:51 AM
<p>I made a thread about this about 2 months ago, after 11 or so pages a Dev said it would be fixed in an upcoming patch.</p><p>It hasn't.</p>

Errol10
12-08-2007, 09:52 AM
Somehow, I don't think the intentions match up with the implementation, as Roald has shown by mentioning his thread from 2 months ago.  I guess you can take your 'as intended' somewhere else.  It's not a bug, yeah. I guess that in some sense, you could interpret as beneficial to get more haste/dps from a berserk proc so you can kill the mobs you're fighting before turning to attack your attacker..Let's be honest though - in some cases (like berserk, necro lich, etc) this solution is like cutting off your arm because your finger hurts. Really need some kind of better criteria for this.

Norrsken
12-08-2007, 10:00 AM
<cite>Errol1001 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Somehow, I don't think the intentions match up with the implementation, as Roald has shown by mentioning his thread from 2 months ago.  I guess you can take your 'as intended' somewhere else.  It's not a bug, yeah. I guess that in some sense, you could interpret as beneficial to get more haste/dps from a berserk proc so you can kill the mobs you're fighting before turning to attack your attacker..Let's be honest though - in some cases (like berserk, necro lich, etc) this solution is like cutting off your arm because your finger hurts. Really need some kind of better criteria for this.</blockquote>I dont think procs or buffs should put you in combat, especially not the ones like the regenerating ward of the shamen, or lich of the necro. The only way you can handle those to not be put in combat is to not cast them, and well, thats just plain stupid. If thats the case, then the scouts should be put in combat by their offensive stance, and so on. And at that point, you might just as well put people in combat the moment someone hits them.

Roald
12-08-2007, 10:18 AM
<p>Found the thread:</p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=165&topic_id=382325" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=382325</a></p><p>On page 11 Aeralik confirms that most of these changes are intended, but some things got caught up in the update.</p><p>The post is actually a good read apart from the inate posting by Mr Greenion. </p>

Errol10
12-08-2007, 10:44 AM
Ultimately, you should have to make a conscious decision to enter combat.  It's not that way right now, and it's obvious that things that cannot be construed as defensive or evasive are also forcing it.Aeeron says that most of these things are intended as they are like a priest casting a buff in combat... key word is casting, which implies making a conscious decision.

-Arctura-
12-09-2007, 02:54 AM
(( as it stands, ANY actions whether defensive or offensive put you into combat. REASONING:If you attempt NOT to die to another player, you are thereby DIRECTLY hampering (or attempting to hamper) his efforts at acquiring a pvp token.Involving yourself in someones efforts to PVP in turn counts as PVP in upon itself.ANY magical or combat ability counts as DIRECT interference with PVP.(sadly!)NOTE:INDIRECT interference/delaying / preventing or otherwise hampering someones PVP efforts is NOT considered involving ones self in PVP. Examples of INDIRECT pvp interference:Evacing before the fight beginsUsing geography ingame to evade or fleeetc etc.

KannaWhoopass
12-09-2007, 06:15 AM
<p>Ok thats great </p><p>But im a defiler and a warden .. so when i fight a mob </p><p>then a 2 inch tall ranger fires an arrow at me from 40 m away , where i can't see .. and pop im in combat cause </p><p>either my ward which is part of my group buff mitigates part of the damage from his attack while im fighting .. </p><p>Or i have a ward on .. </p><p>What would you recomend ? </p><p>That i see the ranger ... then do what .. shout off the mob .. scan my maintained buffs .. and click off the 2 wards i may have on myself .. be sure my armor doesnt have a ward on .?   all before the arrow hits me... </p><p>Example :</p><p>Friend and i are fighting a mob .. on my warden ... all of a sudden i see him take massive damage .... Orange Ranger behind us taking shots at him ... he says "Get out Evac"   ... and i cant ... the heal i had on put me in combat..   great... </p><p> This mechanic in a game where i have see full groups in stealth .. 2 inches tall .. they look like littel bugs ... with totems on you cant see them at all .. which mean .. Every scout class can now </p><p>1) Use track to avoid getting jumped by the little guys... </p><p>2) Sneak up to you unseen if you are not  a scout and wait jump you every time . vision totems mean nothing .. if the mob is too small to see visible or not.. Whats the next Lon reward  totems that make invis glow red so you can see ..  </p><p>Fantastic.. </p><p>At least the out of combat healing never killed anyone .. who didnt want to fight ... at worst it was a draw .. .. unless a low dps class was stubborn enought to spend 4 min loosing power on a healer ... </p>

silentpsycho
12-09-2007, 10:25 AM
This whole "ooh, you defended yourself (defended, not attacked) so now you lose all your run speed and can't zone" stuff is just plain stupid.  Especially when it's completely passive action like a ward, reactive or heal over time tick.  Not to mention the really stupid stuff that has put me into combat - casting my buffs in immunity, hitting sprint, pact of the cheetah when out of combat, casting the god pet/buff, and I've even had a "you have entered combat by casting Feign Death on soandso".  Come on... [Removed for Content]  Just take it back to you enter combat when you attack someone else PLEASE.  You will never get it right, because it's a messed up mechanic from the ground up!

-Arctura-
12-09-2007, 01:10 PM
(( i kinda agree that the forced engagement rules are a bit silly, HOWEVERdevils advocate:Before this change, people with the ability to heal could keep out of combat, and sustain their life FOREVER. (in some scenarios)Now, they are not immortal gods with infinite mana and life. It was unfair to classes without healing.<span style="font-size: small;"><b><i>HOWEVER</i></b></span>:It now forces people into combat, and forcing people to do things is never a good thing. Not really fun.<b><span style="font-size: small;"><i>HOWEVER #2:</i></span></b>tons of potions, signets, trinkets and artifacts can give in-combat abilities to help prevent your death, even from those dps-pump classes that kill you in 7 seconds.Just gotta know what buttons to push and in what order.FACT: There are a few items out there that you DONT need a raid to acquire, and these items WILL STOP ANY class from killing you in pvp. (Unless they have a similar set of items to combat your magical effects that you just applied with yours)

Amphibia
12-09-2007, 02:04 PM
To KannaWhoopass:As somebody else said, this was changed a long time ago. The problem was that healers could just stand out of combat and heal themselves for half an eternity, due to ooc power regen etc... and that made it extremely difficult for a lot of classes to kill them. That said, yes this is unfair. The game is generally very unfair. If you're fighting a mob and get attacked, you are generally screwed and are probably gonna die if you are a priest, mage or fighter. That in itself would have been perfectly OK if it applied to all classes, but it doesn't. On the bright side - that also means that there are others out there who can't defend themselves or get away either. You can always try to find them and kill them while they're fighting their mobs, just like people do to you..... <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />Conclusion: This mechanic needs to be there. So when you fight mobs, know that the risk of dying without any chance of getting away is considerable. Try to kill stuff as fast as possible. Pan your camera around constantly. Always use see invis totems (yes, some rangers will be 2 inches tall and hide in bushes). Be ready to start running on a seconds notice if you see someone in a distance. There are also some other neat little trinkets and things you can do to make life a little more difficult for people that jump you, but I don't feel like listing them here. I still need tokens... <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

Snowlywhite
12-09-2007, 04:03 PM
dumb situation:a. ooc, you attack me, I don't get in combat till I do somethin';b. [Removed for Content] situation b when I"m fightin' a mob... you attack me, for some odd reason barbed guard procs. on you too, I'm in combat... why?!

Tae
12-09-2007, 08:20 PM
Although I feel that the change overall was a good thing, things like berserk putting you in combat are very annoying. It means that if a warden sees a Berserker, they can instantly put them into combat by dropping their wolves on the berserker. With things like potions and heals though, they <i>have</i> to put you in combat. What is the point of snare and root abilities if the person can just instantly remove them and keep going at full speed?

silentpsycho
12-09-2007, 08:53 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>Although I feel that the change overall was a good thing, things like berserk putting you in combat are very annoying. It means that if a warden sees a Berserker, they can instantly put them into combat by dropping their wolves on the berserker.With things like potions and heals though, they <i>have</i> to put you in combat. What is the point of snare and root abilities if the person can just instantly remove them and keep going at full speed?</blockquote>If you can't keep someone snared, rooted, mezzed, stunned, or otherwise locked down with all the tools available in group pvp today, especially with the cure nerfs in place, then you should just quit and go play a less challenging game, like, oh, tic-tac-toe.  OOC healing was only a problem for the gankers who expected to be able to solo a class designed to keep an entire group alive; they whined endlessly that they couldn't gank (not that they actually died, because all you had to do was walk - not run - away) a healer with good food/drink and totems.  A non-problem got "solved" and broke the rest of the game because the people who tried to fix it didn't take the time to think the problem through.  Nice job.

Lavenderboi
12-09-2007, 11:07 PM
I was forced into combat by accidentally hitting my summon pet fluff spell, which was next to my sprint.  Let me say that again, I was FORCED into COMBAT for summoning a useless HAWK! lol....so stupid.

Snowlywhite
12-09-2007, 11:12 PM
    <cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>Although I feel that the change overall was a good thing, things like berserk putting you in combat are very annoying. It means that if a warden sees a Berserker, they can instantly put them into combat by dropping their wolves on the berserker.With things like potions and heals though, they <i>have</i> to put you in combat. What is the point of snare and root abilities if the person can just instantly remove them and keep going at full speed?</blockquote>If you can't keep someone snared, rooted, mezzed, stunned, or otherwise locked down with all the tools available in group pvp today, especially with the cure nerfs in place, then you should just quit and go play a less challenging game, like, oh, tic-tac-toe.  OOC healing was only a problem for the gankers who expected to be able to solo a class designed to keep an entire group alive; they whined endlessly that they couldn't gank (not that they actually died, because all you had to do was walk - not run - away) a healer with good food/drink and totems.  A non-problem got "solved" and broke the rest of the game because the people who tried to fix it didn't take the time to think the problem through.  Nice job.</blockquote>err... how exactly can you keep someone rooted with root immunity?

HerbertWalker
12-10-2007, 12:05 AM
<p>Not all defensive abilities should place a character into combat.   Some should, some shouldn't - and overall solo class balance should be considered when deciding which should or should not.   For instance - Guardians, Beserkers, Shamen, Summoners, etc, should get a HUGE benefit of the doubt when designing the specific mechanics.   Why certain classes and not others?   Because some are WEAK and some are STRONG... solo.</p><p>That said, it's a lot of work to tailor specific mechanics to specific abilities of certain classes and is asking much more than the devs are willing to provide to us.</p>

silentpsycho
12-10-2007, 02:04 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>    <cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>Although I feel that the change overall was a good thing, things like berserk putting you in combat are very annoying. It means that if a warden sees a Berserker, they can instantly put them into combat by dropping their wolves on the berserker.With things like potions and heals though, they <i>have</i> to put you in combat. What is the point of snare and root abilities if the person can just instantly remove them and keep going at full speed?</blockquote>If you can't keep someone snared, rooted, mezzed, stunned, or otherwise locked down with all the tools available in group pvp today, especially with the cure nerfs in place, then you should just quit and go play a less challenging game, like, oh, tic-tac-toe.  OOC healing was only a problem for the gankers who expected to be able to solo a class designed to keep an entire group alive; they whined endlessly that they couldn't gank (not that they actually died, because all you had to do was walk - not run - away) a healer with good food/drink and totems.  A non-problem got "solved" and broke the rest of the game because the people who tried to fix it didn't take the time to think the problem through.  Nice job.</blockquote>err... how exactly can you keep someone rooted with root immunity?</blockquote>err... you can't.  that's what stun, snare, stifle and mez are for.  there, now that i've helped you "L2Play" and you are slightly less of a noob, you should be able to see that you don't need SOE's help by also removing run-speed bonuses when the person you are ganking is stupid enough to do something as dumb as curing the effect you place on him.

Snowlywhite
12-10-2007, 10:45 AM
being clueless is fine; being clueless and cocky ain't.imagine there are ppl. who actually, gasp, want to solo, and then the ammount of snares and stuns is limited, leaving aside immunity from various effects you gain after they're 1st used. It's already hard enough to catch someone on a decent mount and melee him down, thanks.curing should put you in combat, it's fine as it is. If you don't like it, start a thread and complain till the end of time as far as I'm concerned. That being said, go with your l2p and other childish things somewhere else.However the rest of the bugs should be fixed.