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View Full Version : Reasonable Suggestions to Coincide with PVP xp change


Bozidar
12-07-2007, 05:59 PM
<p>Ok, i know a lot of folks aren't fans of this, and many are jumping up and down for joy now that their griping has made the aforementioned people miserable.  But I have some good ideas that SOE can take, and make this thing a win-win.</p><p>A) As mentioned elsewhere, up the starting faction for pvp gear, or reward more faction/kill, or GREATLY increase the amount of faction that tokens give.  I don't need to elaborate here.</p><p>B) Many of us who lock do so to equip our character with AA, so that we can adequately compete in the pvp world.  If you wish that we always gain xp for a PVP kill, then please also reward AA for all pvp kills.  Make it a comperable amount of AA as per the XP rewarded.</p><p>This will greatly increase pvp, and may lead to a pvp system where people actually SEEK OUT pvp, rather than avoid it.</p><p>Make every pvp kill like a quest turn in.  If we have to get xp for it, then give us AA for it too.</p><p>note : i know this opens the world up for exploiting for AA, but who cares?  If they're getting xp and AA then so be it.. it's pvp.  they opened us up to token farming, why not this too?</p>

ckl
12-07-2007, 06:07 PM
<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Ok, i know a lot of folks aren't fans of this, and many are jumping up and down for joy now that their griping has made the aforementioned people miserable.  But I have some good ideas that SOE can take, and make this thing a win-win.</p><p>A) As mentioned elsewhere, up the starting faction for pvp gear, or reward more faction/kill, or GREATLY increase the amount of faction that tokens give.  I don't need to elaborate here.</p><p>B) Many of us who lock do so to equip our character with AA, so that we can adequately compete in the pvp world.  If you wish that we always gain xp for a PVP kill, then please also reward AA for all pvp kills.  Make it a comperable amount of AA as per the XP rewarded.</p><p>This will greatly increase pvp, and may lead to a pvp system where people actually SEEK OUT pvp, rather than avoid it.</p><p>Make every pvp kill like a quest turn in.  If we have to get xp for it, then give us AA for it too.</p><p>note : i know this opens the world up for exploiting for AA, but who cares?  If they're getting xp and AA then so be it.. it's pvp.  they opened us up to token farming, why not this too?</p></blockquote>Totally agree on both accounts. Be prepared to be flamed for the AA thing, though.

wellehad0
12-07-2007, 07:46 PM
OMG finnaly a post i can 100% agree with.. just like quest we are forced to get EXp with are AA.. in PVP every toon should be jsut like any other name first time killing them you get AA exp.. to keep people from exploiting this have it only starting at lvl 14 toons and above.. meaning you cant gain AA exp unless they are atleast lvl 14 or above....

deepruntramp
12-07-2007, 08:02 PM
<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>A) As mentioned elsewhere, up the starting faction for pvp gear, or reward more faction/kill, or GREATLY increase the amount of faction that tokens give.  I don't need to elaborate here.</p><p>B) Many of us who lock do so to equip our character with AA, so that we can adequately compete in the pvp world.  If you wish that we always gain xp for a PVP kill, then please also reward AA for all pvp kills.  Make it a comperable amount of AA as per the XP rewarded.</p></blockquote>A.) is a good suggestion, downside being it's been suggested for a long time and the change never happened, so dont' count on it now.B.) is just a bad idea that needs to get stomped out as soon as poss ible.  It wouldn't stem griefing because to the permalocker, AA is worth the combat xp "hit" (that gaining combat xp is considered a "hit" goes to show how unbelivably pathetic EverTier 2s are).  Head to Caves or Darklight Wood, camp level 10 greens, farm trivially gained AA.  It would prevent the resolution of the issues the upcoming change is attempting to fix.

wellehad0
12-07-2007, 08:06 PM
<cite>deepruntramp wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>A) As mentioned elsewhere, up the starting faction for pvp gear, or reward more faction/kill, or GREATLY increase the amount of faction that tokens give.  I don't need to elaborate here.</p><p>B) Many of us who lock do so to equip our character with AA, so that we can adequately compete in the pvp world.  If you wish that we always gain xp for a PVP kill, then please also reward AA for all pvp kills.  Make it a comperable amount of AA as per the XP rewarded.</p></blockquote>A.) is a good suggestion, downside being it's been suggested for a long time and the change never happened, so dont' count on it now.B.) is just a bad idea that needs to get stomped out as soon as poss ible.  It wouldn't stem griefing because to the permalocker, AA is worth the combat xp "hit" (that gaining combat xp is considered a "hit" goes to show how unbelivably pathetic EverTier 2s are).  Head to Caves or Darklight Wood, camp level 10 greens, farm trivially gained AA.  It would prevent the resolution of the issues the upcoming change is attempting to fix.</blockquote>ah i think this could work just think abou [Removed for Content] why do people get jsut pwaned by others its called lack of AA.. if you thought about it yes at first they will not be on par with alot of people.. all they would ahve to do is get some PVP kills and they will start to catch up in AA wich then would mean more people on the same lvl.. really this would cut out any reason why peopel would not be on the same page then due to once you hit max AA you cant get anymore unless you lvl

Rattfa
12-07-2007, 08:20 PM
A) Yes, definately. The gear is just going to waste otherwise. Either remove it or drastically reduce the faction cost of them (2nd option preferable).B) LOL...I have no words...

Mighty Melvor
12-07-2007, 08:34 PM
<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Ok, i know a lot of folks aren't fans of this, and many are jumping up and down for joy now that their griping has made the aforementioned people miserable.  But I have some good ideas that SOE can take, and make this thing a win-win.</p><p>A) As mentioned elsewhere, up the starting faction for pvp gear, or reward more faction/kill, or GREATLY increase the amount of faction that tokens give.  I don't need to elaborate here.</p><p>B) Many of us who lock do so to equip our character with AA, so that we can adequately compete in the pvp world.  If you wish that we always gain xp for a PVP kill, then please also reward AA for all pvp kills.  Make it a comperable amount of AA as per the XP rewarded.</p></blockquote><p>A)  I've agreed before and agree now.  Lvl 20 PvP gear is inaccessable to <strike>most</strike> <u>all</u> now.  Starting faction at 0 rather than -10K makes the most sense.  Sign me up!</p><p>B)  Nah.  The exploiting would be unbearable.  This is EverQuest II with a PvP flavor, not PvP with an EverQuest II logo.  Want AA?  Go quest, kill names, explore etc... Writs for PvP?  Meh, the concept is well intended, but still exploitable...</p><p>I'm looking more toward fixing the currently borked AA cap we AND PvE have.  The current PvE cap has been discussed in the achievements pages.  Currently you cannot even earn more than 100 AA if you aren't lvl 70.  That is plain stupid and needs to be addressed.  Also, would like to see the PvP AA cap move to a more sensible cap to prevent T2 evergank where lvl 10s can have 15AA.  Make more sense to revise the cap to prevent overuse of AA at low levels.  Also increase the cap at higher levels so people can enjoy a smoother transition to T8.  [(adv-9)*2] AA cap FTW I say!</p>

Roald
12-07-2007, 10:04 PM
If you actually think number 2 through, then it actually makes quite a lot of sense. I think Sony would have to adjust the XP/AA ratio, but it might be a good change. Maybe a flat rate of 1% XP per kill and 1% AA? Maybe more maybe less, but I think the idea is good.

Bozidar
12-07-2007, 11:07 PM
<cite>deepruntramp wrote:</cite><blockquote><b></b>A.) is a good suggestion, downside being it's been suggested for a long time and the change never happened, so dont' count on it now.B.) is just a bad idea that needs to get stomped out as soon as poss ible.  It wouldn't stem griefing because to the permalocker, AA is worth the combat xp "hit" (that gaining combat xp is considered a "hit" goes to show how unbelivably pathetic EverTier 2s are).  Head to Caves or Darklight Wood, camp level 10 greens, farm trivially gained AA.  It would prevent the resolution of the issues the upcoming change is attempting to fix.</blockquote><p>there would no longer be any such thing as griefing.  killing someone a second time gives a reward.. </p><p>and the more times a griefer 'griefs', the sooner they won't be able to attack that person any longer.</p><p>Sounds like it's an even better fix than i thought, it removes griefing <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Bozidar
12-07-2007, 11:08 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>OMG finnaly a post i can 100% agree with.. just like quest we are forced to get EXp with are AA.. in PVP every toon should be jsut like any other name first time killing them you get AA exp.. to keep people from exploiting this have it only starting at lvl 14 toons and above.. meaning you cant gain AA exp unless they are atleast lvl 14 or above....</blockquote>no, every time, every kill.  if you get xp from pvp, you should get aa as well.

Bozidar
12-07-2007, 11:09 PM
<cite>Mighty Melvor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Ok, i know a lot of folks aren't fans of this, and many are jumping up and down for joy now that their griping has made the aforementioned people miserable.  But I have some good ideas that SOE can take, and make this thing a win-win.</p><p>A) As mentioned elsewhere, up the starting faction for pvp gear, or reward more faction/kill, or GREATLY increase the amount of faction that tokens give.  I don't need to elaborate here.</p><p>B) Many of us who lock do so to equip our character with AA, so that we can adequately compete in the pvp world.  If you wish that we always gain xp for a PVP kill, then please also reward AA for all pvp kills.  Make it a comperable amount of AA as per the XP rewarded.</p></blockquote><p>A)  I've agreed before and agree now.  Lvl 20 PvP gear is inaccessable to <strike>most</strike> <u>all</u> now.  Starting faction at 0 rather than -10K makes the most sense.  Sign me up!</p><p>B)  Nah.  The exploiting would be unbearable.  This is EverQuest II with a PvP flavor, not PvP with an EverQuest II logo.  Want AA?  Go quest, kill names, explore etc... Writs for PvP?  Meh, the concept is well intended, but still exploitable...</p></blockquote>This is a PVP server.  I don't see what's wrong with actually encouraging more pvp for a change, rather than 99% of the rule changes that come out that discourage/decrease it.

Bozidar
12-07-2007, 11:10 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you actually think number 2 through, then it actually makes quite a lot of sense. I think Sony would have to adjust the XP/AA ratio, but it might be a good change. Maybe a flat rate of 1% XP per kill and 1% AA? Maybe more maybe less, but I think the idea is good.</blockquote>thx for the backup, mil <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Spyderbite
12-08-2007, 02:53 AM
<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>This is a PVP server.  I don't see what's wrong with actually encouraging more pvp for a change, rather than 99% of the rule changes that come out that discourage/decrease it.</blockquote>It ain't "PvP" that's being discouraged. Its the griefing. I understand that a small minority is being affected by the change. But, you'll see that the majority who is responsible is not responding or even posting. Or, they aren't mentioning their <b>real</b> in game activities. The real PvP's at T2 never witness the source of the problem because they don't frequent the newbie zones.. they don't need to cause they're looking for fair fights elsewhere.Unfortunately, at the end of the day, its the start zone campers that ruined it for everyone who locked at T2 and played the game as intended. I see SOE's strategy here.. they may lose some accounts.. and sadly some of those may be the sincere level lockers who enjoyed "true PvP" at that tier. But, they'll flush out bad trash and replace them with a deluge of new players who can enjoy the beginning of the game the way it was meant to. Fairly with no overwhelming odds that caused them to spend more time at the Revive zones than elsewhere./shrugsIts on the test server now. The devs will look it over and find a middle ground I suppose. Perhaps a solution will be found from the feedback that can make it acceptable to all. People quitting now, make me giggle. XD

Bozidar
12-08-2007, 11:50 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>This is a PVP server.  I don't see what's wrong with actually encouraging more pvp for a change, rather than 99% of the rule changes that come out that discourage/decrease it.</blockquote>It ain't "PvP" that's being discouraged. Its the griefing. I understand that a small minority is being affected by the change. But, you'll see that the majority who is responsible is not responding or even posting. Or, they aren't mentioning their <b>real</b> in game activities. The real PvP's at T2 never witness the source of the problem because they don't frequent the newbie zones.. they don't need to cause they're looking for fair fights elsewhere.Unfortunately, at the end of the day, its the start zone campers that ruined it for everyone who locked at T2 and played the game as intended. I see SOE's strategy here.. they may lose some accounts.. and sadly some of those may be the sincere level lockers who enjoyed "true PvP" at that tier. But, they'll flush out bad trash and replace them with a deluge of new players who can enjoy the beginning of the game the way it was meant to. Fairly with no overwhelming odds that caused them to spend more time at the Revive zones than elsewhere./shrugsIts on the test server now. The devs will look it over and find a middle ground I suppose. Perhaps a solution will be found from the feedback that can make it acceptable to all. People quitting now, make me giggle. XD</blockquote>Please, for the love of all that sails on the seas of norrath, will you get off of the T2 crap?  It's NOT JUST T2 THAT THEY ARE CHANGING

wellehad0
12-08-2007, 12:17 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>This is a PVP server.  I don't see what's wrong with actually encouraging more pvp for a change, rather than 99% of the rule changes that come out that discourage/decrease it.</blockquote>It ain't "PvP" that's being discouraged. Its the griefing. I understand that a small minority is being affected by the change. But, you'll see that the majority who is responsible is not responding or even posting. Or, they aren't mentioning their <b>real</b> in game activities. The real PvP's at T2 never witness the source of the problem because they don't frequent the newbie zones.. they don't need to cause they're looking for fair fights elsewhere.Unfortunately, at the end of the day, its the start zone campers that ruined it for everyone who locked at T2 and played the game as intended. I see SOE's strategy here.. they may lose some accounts.. and sadly some of those may be the sincere level lockers who enjoyed "true PvP" at that tier. But, they'll flush out bad trash and replace them with a deluge of new players who can enjoy the beginning of the game the way it was meant to. Fairly with no overwhelming odds that caused them to spend more time at the Revive zones than elsewhere./shrugsIts on the test server now. The devs will look it over and find a middle ground I suppose. Perhaps a solution will be found from the feedback that can make it acceptable to all. People quitting now, make me giggle. XD</blockquote><p>wow i just figured it out your all for the exp change so that all the other PVP server can be just as dead as yours...... yes im sure you when people quit it makes you giggle but i promise you it will not make SOE's pocket book giggle... just think if say a thousand  people leave do you know how much money that is a month that will no longr be going to SOE..</p><p> also get it through your head this will not help PVP it will kill it.. now you will have people running from PVP just so they dont lvl.. you will have PVP gear that willl only be good for like a day when  it takes insane amout OF PVP jsut to get a 1 day item come on</p><p>also i highly doubt this game will see that many more new players.. for one Eq2 takes searching to even find up to date copies where i live in Houston.. heck i downloaded the free trial after letting my wow account expire and i loved it and on that same day i went to 5 differnt game stops within a 20 mile ratius of me... finnaly i found one that best buy had in the back... now that ROK is out im sure there will be more copys at the store but that still wont help... you have to look at if somebody has to choose between a MMO they will choose WOW first just do to how popular it is... </p><p>just rember SOE giving in to a few high lvl players and changing the whole face of PVP would be the worst mistake you have done since SWG....</p>

seahawk
12-08-2007, 12:19 PM
<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>This is a PVP server.  I don't see what's wrong with actually encouraging more pvp for a change, rather than 99% of the rule changes that come out that discourage/decrease it.</blockquote>It ain't "PvP" that's being discouraged. Its the griefing. I understand that a small minority is being affected by the change. But, you'll see that the majority who is responsible is not responding or even posting. Or, they aren't mentioning their <b>real</b> in game activities. The real PvP's at T2 never witness the source of the problem because they don't frequent the newbie zones.. they don't need to cause they're looking for fair fights elsewhere.Unfortunately, at the end of the day, its the start zone campers that ruined it for everyone who locked at T2 and played the game as intended. I see SOE's strategy here.. they may lose some accounts.. and sadly some of those may be the sincere level lockers who enjoyed "true PvP" at that tier. But, they'll flush out bad trash and replace them with a deluge of new players who can enjoy the beginning of the game the way it was meant to. Fairly with no overwhelming odds that caused them to spend more time at the Revive zones than elsewhere./shrugsIts on the test server now. The devs will look it over and find a middle ground I suppose. Perhaps a solution will be found from the feedback that can make it acceptable to all. People quitting now, make me giggle. XD</blockquote>Please, for the love of all that sails on the seas of norrath, will you get off of the T2 crap?  <b><span style="color: #990000;">It's NOT JUST T2 THAT THEY ARE CHANGING</span></b></blockquote><p>Fair enough, but that is what SoE is really addressing with this fix.  Let's be honest.  To level off of PvP in T2 will not be that hard.  Rather easy, I imagine.  That forces people into t3 where the exp for kills is much less, and eventually into t4 where the kills are barely noticible for pvp.  So, in essence you will get your "locked" toon back about t4.  To level beyond that with just pvp will require tons of kills.</p><p>I realize that t8 is not for everyone, but I think people in general are really overexaggerating the amount of experience they will be getting from kills once they hit high t3/t4 content.  This fix frees up the t2 zones for the newer players, while allowing them time to learn the game so to speak and when they hit t3/4 you guys will be waiting for them.  So have fun. </p><p>Just a personal note, AA for Pvp kills is a bit crazy.  Once you actually level a bit and open up more content, there are tons and tons of ways to get AA... It is already too easy to get AA in this game.</p><p>** Disclaimer ** after 120 AA, AA becomes a grind.</p>

ckl
12-08-2007, 12:33 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>This is a PVP server.  I don't see what's wrong with actually encouraging more pvp for a change, rather than 99% of the rule changes that come out that discourage/decrease it.</blockquote>It ain't "PvP" that's being discouraged. Its the griefing. I understand that a small minority is being affected by the change. But, you'll see that the majority who is responsible is not responding or even posting. Or, they aren't mentioning their <b>real</b> in game activities. The real PvP's at T2 never witness the source of the problem because they don't frequent the newbie zones.. they don't need to cause they're looking for fair fights elsewhere.Unfortunately, at the end of the day, its the start zone campers that ruined it for everyone who locked at T2 and played the game as intended. I see SOE's strategy here.. they may lose some accounts.. and sadly some of those may be the sincere level lockers who enjoyed "true PvP" at that tier. But, they'll flush out bad trash and replace them with a deluge of new players who can enjoy the beginning of the game the way it was meant to. Fairly with no overwhelming odds that caused them to spend more time at the Revive zones than elsewhere./shrugsIts on the test server now. The devs will look it over and find a middle ground I suppose. Perhaps a solution will be found from the feedback that can make it acceptable to all. People quitting now, make me giggle. XD</blockquote><p>There are other methods to combat low level griefing. Maybe a mechanism to carnage flag someone griefing, or putting a half an hour carnage flag on someone if their average kill level is a certain amount below their own. This way there'd be a penalty for random, mindless killing.. and people would have to think, "Oh, I'd better not kill this green here, my average kill level is pretty low." It'd be especially effective if high levels were in the zone, because who wants to get one shotted themselves?</p><p>That way the T2 locked pvp--which for some reason you think doesn't exist anywhere, despite not playing on Nagafen--can continue, the griefing will be discouraged, and new players won't be so overwhelmed. The only people who lose out are the people in the higher tiers who for some reason have a sense of entitlement that their tier should be where all PVP takes place.</p><p>And to the people who say the game's about questing, questing and more questing.. No. It isn't. It's a computer roleplaying game, which should allow the player freedom to do as he pleases (and ideally, to be punished for overt griefing). That's what we call sandbox games, folks. Maybe you haven't played one before, and maybe you shouldn't if you feel the need for the developers to determine your gameplay style for you. It'd be nice for every style to be encouraged and allowed.</p>

ckl
12-08-2007, 12:35 PM
<cite>seahawk91 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>This is a PVP server.  I don't see what's wrong with actually encouraging more pvp for a change, rather than 99% of the rule changes that come out that discourage/decrease it.</blockquote>It ain't "PvP" that's being discouraged. Its the griefing. I understand that a small minority is being affected by the change. But, you'll see that the majority who is responsible is not responding or even posting. Or, they aren't mentioning their <b>real</b> in game activities. The real PvP's at T2 never witness the source of the problem because they don't frequent the newbie zones.. they don't need to cause they're looking for fair fights elsewhere.Unfortunately, at the end of the day, its the start zone campers that ruined it for everyone who locked at T2 and played the game as intended. I see SOE's strategy here.. they may lose some accounts.. and sadly some of those may be the sincere level lockers who enjoyed "true PvP" at that tier. But, they'll flush out bad trash and replace them with a deluge of new players who can enjoy the beginning of the game the way it was meant to. Fairly with no overwhelming odds that caused them to spend more time at the Revive zones than elsewhere./shrugsIts on the test server now. The devs will look it over and find a middle ground I suppose. Perhaps a solution will be found from the feedback that can make it acceptable to all. People quitting now, make me giggle. XD</blockquote>Please, for the love of all that sails on the seas of norrath, will you get off of the T2 crap?  <b><span style="color: #990000;">It's NOT JUST T2 THAT THEY ARE CHANGING</span></b></blockquote><p>Fair enough, but that is what SoE is really addressing with this fix.  Let's be honest.  To level off of PvP in T2 will not be that hard.  Rather easy, I imagine.  That forces people into t3 where the exp for kills is much less, and eventually into t4 where the kills are barely noticible for pvp.  So, in essence you will get your "locked" toon back about t4.  To level beyond that with just pvp will require tons of kills.</p><p>I realize that t8 is not for everyone, but I think people in general are really overexaggerating the amount of experience they will be getting from kills once they hit high t3/t4 content.  This fix frees up the t2 zones for the newer players, while allowing them time to learn the game so to speak and when they hit t3/4 you guys will be waiting for them.  So have fun. </p><p>Just a personal note, AA for Pvp kills is a bit crazy.  Once you actually level a bit and open up more content, there are tons and tons of ways to get AA... It is already too easy to get AA in this game.</p><p>** Disclaimer ** after 120 AA, AA becomes a grind.</p></blockquote><p>The problem with not giving AA for PVP kills, when XP is always given, is that the person who does nothing but PVP is at a distinct disadvantage. They'll fall behind quickly, and being punished like that for PVP'ing on a PVP shouldn't happen. </p><p>AA is awarded for PVE, where gaining XP is impossible to avoid (questing, collections, exploring). It should be the same for PVP as well.</p>

Greenion
12-08-2007, 12:36 PM
<p><span style="color: #339900;">you are correct <b><span style="color: #99cc00;">Boz</span></b>, it is not just t2 effected.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">one thing to remember is the "sliding scale" of leveling (i use the term for lack of other)...with each level it takes longer (more activity yeilding xp) to attain the next (in general)...</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">therefor the effect in tiers above 2 will be less perceptable (likely)...tapering as one levels up to a least state of influence in the highest current tier of gameplay (whatever that is at the time we are referencing (as it will not remain capped and eventually again expand))</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">things to possibly accompany this...</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">the obvious of lowering factional requirements for pvp reward in lower tiers (making attainment of such a bit of a faster track)</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">there could be tied to the pvp title system bonus faction (toward those rewards) for certain victories in relation to title differences between opponents (but that gets to be a complicated notion when considering group battles and dynamics of that sort)</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">there could be lessened xp for pvp targets than a same leveled pve target. (this would dampen the effect per kill)</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">there could yeil no xp gain even when a PC is victorious if they do not initiate the pvp encounter (if they are attacked first and then win) (this will dampen the inevitable runfest from those avoiding pvp to avoid not only fame loss but potential xp gain (i know it sounds crazy but you know some will))</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">what i think the playerbase must most realize is this isnt at all the last adjustment to the pvp system as a whole...it is a thing in consant consideration by development and therefor a thing in constant flux...there will be more changes in the future (that adjust and refine an evolving product - so realize the changes they make now will have effects that will stand to be considered for adjustments in the future (very </span><span style="color: #339900;">obvious and logical but often i feel not apparant to the playerbase most often in the face of inclement change)</span></p>

seahawk
12-08-2007, 01:01 PM
<cite>cklab wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>seahawk91 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>This is a PVP server.  I don't see what's wrong with actually encouraging more pvp for a change, rather than 99% of the rule changes that come out that discourage/decrease it.</blockquote>It ain't "PvP" that's being discouraged. Its the griefing. I understand that a small minority is being affected by the change. But, you'll see that the majority who is responsible is not responding or even posting. Or, they aren't mentioning their <b>real</b> in game activities. The real PvP's at T2 never witness the source of the problem because they don't frequent the newbie zones.. they don't need to cause they're looking for fair fights elsewhere.Unfortunately, at the end of the day, its the start zone campers that ruined it for everyone who locked at T2 and played the game as intended. I see SOE's strategy here.. they may lose some accounts.. and sadly some of those may be the sincere level lockers who enjoyed "true PvP" at that tier. But, they'll flush out bad trash and replace them with a deluge of new players who can enjoy the beginning of the game the way it was meant to. Fairly with no overwhelming odds that caused them to spend more time at the Revive zones than elsewhere./shrugsIts on the test server now. The devs will look it over and find a middle ground I suppose. Perhaps a solution will be found from the feedback that can make it acceptable to all. People quitting now, make me giggle. XD</blockquote>Please, for the love of all that sails on the seas of norrath, will you get off of the T2 crap?  <b><span style="color: #990000;">It's NOT JUST T2 THAT THEY ARE CHANGING</span></b></blockquote><p>Fair enough, but that is what SoE is really addressing with this fix.  Let's be honest.  To level off of PvP in T2 will not be that hard.  Rather easy, I imagine.  That forces people into t3 where the exp for kills is much less, and eventually into t4 where the kills are barely noticible for pvp.  So, in essence you will get your "locked" toon back about t4.  To level beyond that with just pvp will require tons of kills.</p><p>I realize that t8 is not for everyone, but I think people in general are really overexaggerating the amount of experience they will be getting from kills once they hit high t3/t4 content.  This fix frees up the t2 zones for the newer players, while allowing them time to learn the game so to speak and when they hit t3/4 you guys will be waiting for them.  So have fun. </p><p>Just a personal note, AA for Pvp kills is a bit crazy.  Once you actually level a bit and open up more content, there are tons and tons of ways to get AA... It is already too easy to get AA in this game.</p><p>** Disclaimer ** after 120 AA, AA becomes a grind.</p></blockquote><p>The problem with not giving AA for PVP kills, when XP is always given, is that the person who does nothing but PVP is at a distinct disadvantage. They'll fall behind quickly, and being punished like that for PVP'ing on a PVP shouldn't happen. </p><p>AA is awarded for PVE, where gaining XP is impossible to avoid (questing, collections, exploring). It should be the same for PVP as well.</p></blockquote>You kind of summed up what SoE is trying to accomplish with this fix Puissant.  People that "only PvP" now in T2, are more than likely maxxed AA and outfitted rather nicely.  They are comfortable where they are and have no desire to move on.  Experience gained in t3/4 will not rocket someone to the next tier.  It will be a slow grind.  <b><i>IF they are only pvp'ing now, then they must not need anymore AA, because they don't get AA from kills now as it is</i></b>.  So nothing changes if AA is not gained from PvP kills.

Bozidar
12-08-2007, 01:07 PM
<cite>seahawk91 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Fair enough, but that is what SoE is really addressing with this fix.  Let's be honest.  </p></blockquote><p>i'll read the rest later, and stop you right here</p><p>be honest, you haven't the foggiest clue in the world what SOE is doing other than what they tell us.  and what they tell us is that they're changing all levels of play.</p><p>so unless you've got an SOE hall pass or something, please don't interpert what SOE is doing for the rest of us.</p>

ckl
12-08-2007, 01:09 PM
<cite>seahawk91 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>cklab wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>seahawk91 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>This is a PVP server.  I don't see what's wrong with actually encouraging more pvp for a change, rather than 99% of the rule changes that come out that discourage/decrease it.</blockquote>It ain't "PvP" that's being discouraged. Its the griefing. I understand that a small minority is being affected by the change. But, you'll see that the majority who is responsible is not responding or even posting. Or, they aren't mentioning their <b>real</b> in game activities. The real PvP's at T2 never witness the source of the problem because they don't frequent the newbie zones.. they don't need to cause they're looking for fair fights elsewhere.Unfortunately, at the end of the day, its the start zone campers that ruined it for everyone who locked at T2 and played the game as intended. I see SOE's strategy here.. they may lose some accounts.. and sadly some of those may be the sincere level lockers who enjoyed "true PvP" at that tier. But, they'll flush out bad trash and replace them with a deluge of new players who can enjoy the beginning of the game the way it was meant to. Fairly with no overwhelming odds that caused them to spend more time at the Revive zones than elsewhere./shrugsIts on the test server now. The devs will look it over and find a middle ground I suppose. Perhaps a solution will be found from the feedback that can make it acceptable to all. People quitting now, make me giggle. XD</blockquote>Please, for the love of all that sails on the seas of norrath, will you get off of the T2 crap?  <b><span style="color: #990000;">It's NOT JUST T2 THAT THEY ARE CHANGING</span></b></blockquote><p>Fair enough, but that is what SoE is really addressing with this fix.  Let's be honest.  To level off of PvP in T2 will not be that hard.  Rather easy, I imagine.  That forces people into t3 where the exp for kills is much less, and eventually into t4 where the kills are barely noticible for pvp.  So, in essence you will get your "locked" toon back about t4.  To level beyond that with just pvp will require tons of kills.</p><p>I realize that t8 is not for everyone, but I think people in general are really overexaggerating the amount of experience they will be getting from kills once they hit high t3/t4 content.  This fix frees up the t2 zones for the newer players, while allowing them time to learn the game so to speak and when they hit t3/4 you guys will be waiting for them.  So have fun. </p><p>Just a personal note, AA for Pvp kills is a bit crazy.  Once you actually level a bit and open up more content, there are tons and tons of ways to get AA... It is already too easy to get AA in this game.</p><p>** Disclaimer ** after 120 AA, AA becomes a grind.</p></blockquote><p>The problem with not giving AA for PVP kills, when XP is always given, is that the person who does nothing but PVP is at a distinct disadvantage. They'll fall behind quickly, and being punished like that for PVP'ing on a PVP shouldn't happen. </p><p>AA is awarded for PVE, where gaining XP is impossible to avoid (questing, collections, exploring). It should be the same for PVP as well.</p></blockquote>You kind of summed up what SoE is trying to accomplish with this fix Puissant.  People that "only PvP" now in T2, are more than likely maxxed AA and outfitted rather nicely.  They are comfortable where they are and have no desire to move on.  Experience gained in t3/4 will not rocket someone to the next tier.  It will be a slow grind.  <b><i>IF they are only pvp'ing now, then they must not need anymore AA, because they don't get AA from kills now as it is</i></b>.  So nothing changes if AA is not gained from PvP kills.</blockquote><p>Well, my swashbuckler doesn't have maxxed AA. He's only got 18.20 at level 17. I never knew you could get AA for killing nameds in a group with someone outside your level range. I did the exploration thing with 50% debt way back when, because, well, I hate questing, and running around zones while watching TV was more my speed.</p><p>Frankly, I'm satisfied with only 18 AAs, as getting more would only increase the number of shadowknights with harm touch, heh.</p>

Bozidar
12-08-2007, 01:12 PM
<cite>Greenion wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><span style="color: #339900;">you are correct <b><span style="color: #99cc00;">Boz</span></b>, it is not just t2 effected.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">one thing to remember is the "sliding scale" of leveling (i use the term for lack of other)...with each level it takes longer (more activity yeilding xp) to attain the next (in general)...</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">therefor the effect in tiers above 2 will be less perceptable (likely)...tapering as one levels up to a least state of influence in the highest current tier of gameplay (whatever that is at the time we are referencing (as it will not remain capped and eventually again expand))</span></p></blockquote><p>if this is the case, then in the tiers above T2 then give the same amount of AA that they do of xp</p><p>if the xp given is so small, why not give the same amount of AA and don't punish those that want to pvp only?</p><p>Hell, if i could hit lvl 10, lock and level to 80 on pvp while getting AA along the way that would be an appropriate amount?</p><p>That might make this the best game ever invented.</p><p>I don't have to quest to level up?  I don't have to run all over talking to npc and killing mobs? I can just.. you know.. PVP on a PVP server?</p><p>sometimes i fail to see how much of a genius i am.. but honestly, i've outdone myself with this one.  This is an AWESOME idea.  I'm liking it more every day.</p>

Bozidar
12-08-2007, 01:16 PM
<p>^^^^</p><p>to those of you against pvp and just want to raid at 80, fear not!  I have just reported myself for this thread, in hopes that the moderators will remove the thread before a dev sees this, realizes it's genius, and then it's too late.. pvp will happen on a pvp server.  I realize that we can't let that happen..so i've repoted myself.</p>

ckl
12-08-2007, 01:19 PM
<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>^^^^</p><p>to those of you against pvp and just want to raid at 80, fear not!  I have just reported myself for this thread, in hopes that the moderators will remove the thread before a dev sees this, realizes it's genius, and then it's too late.. pvp will happen on a pvp server.  I realize that we can't let that happen..so i've repoted myself.</p></blockquote>lol I was just about to post something to the effect that this is Ever<i>Quest</i> not Ever<i>PVP</i>. I think yours is far more clever.

Greenion
12-08-2007, 01:24 PM
<p><span style="color: #339900;">i would contend toward a new type of aa xp gain...a new pool...a new dimension of character and pvp reward (ehem, available to all factions)</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">a new line of relative skills per class...and possibly varied per faction (to change the discrepencies found in city aligned raidforces due to class exemptions per alignment) - exiles of course should recieve the same aa pts - if it were a class specific line (even aimed toward dampening aforementioned discrepency) it would enhance the exile's singular char. to possibly control an "overpowering" of singular character...due to too numerous available offensive or defensive (or a combinational variety) new skills gained via "pvp aa xp" could share timers with existing class based skills...giving players of a class a choice between two rather than two skills (or if the two skills are attained, a shared timer - however a lessened one in relation to the original timer of both skills in question)</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">and have the aa you mention toward that line alone...yeilded in tandem with pvp xp gain.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">possibly increase the rate gain for teh already established types of aa xp...as needed but i'd be careful the goal i'd think would be to not have common by products of the system able to be god-like within a given attack range per level (including the notion that attack ranges increase per tier of zone generally)</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">not that the above is bad...i think their may be opportunity though for a higher order of character development as a by product here is all.</span></p>

deepruntramp
12-08-2007, 09:26 PM
I haven't seen a constructive or intelligent post from Bozidar or cklab since the OP. Hell, I haven't seen a constructive or intelligent post from cklab since the PvP change made it to test notes. I think you need to calm down and take a few days off from the game and forums.

PeaSy1
12-08-2007, 09:50 PM
Heres the thing about drastic changes such as this...this is what breaks structure in a game is when you FORCE someone to play a game they pay for a certain way instead of making them WANT to play said way....and the "problem" (if you call it a problem) with the way pvp goes down is NOT because of this "twink" dominance its the risk/reward fame system in place the problem always leads back to the fame system in place you need to make it so you get rewarded for killing not not dying. Now just gawk and awe at my abilities to take a bunch of subjects and roll them into a massive runon sentence. Dudo

toenukl
12-08-2007, 10:34 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>This is a PVP server.  I don't see what's wrong with actually encouraging more pvp for a change, rather than 99% of the rule changes that come out that discourage/decrease it.</blockquote>It ain't "PvP" that's being discouraged. Its the griefing. I understand that a small minority is being affected by the change. But, you'll see that the majority who is responsible is not responding or even posting. Or, they aren't mentioning their <b>real</b> in game activities. The real PvP's at T2 never witness the source of the problem because they don't frequent the newbie zones.. they don't need to cause they're looking for fair fights elsewhere.Unfortunately, at the end of the day, its the start zone campers that ruined it for everyone who locked at T2 and played the game as intended. I see SOE's strategy here.. they may lose some accounts.. and sadly some of those may be the sincere level lockers who enjoyed "true PvP" at that tier. But, they'll flush out bad trash and replace them with a deluge of new players who can enjoy the beginning of the game the way it was meant to. Fairly with no overwhelming odds that caused them to spend more time at the Revive zones than elsewhere./shrugsIts on the test server now. The devs will look it over and find a middle ground I suppose. Perhaps a solution will be found from the feedback that can make it acceptable to all. People quitting now, make me giggle. XD</blockquote><p>wow i just figured it out your all for the exp change so that all the other PVP server can be just as dead as yours...... yes im sure you when people quit it makes you giggle but i promise you it will not make SOE's pocket book giggle... just think if say a thousand  people leave do you know how much money that is a month that will no longr be going to SOE..</p><span style="color: #ff0000;">ROFL a thousand eh?</span><p> also get it through your head this will not help PVP it will kill it.. now you will have people running from PVP just so they dont lvl.. you will have PVP gear that willl only be good for like a day when  it takes insane amout OF PVP jsut to get a 1 day item come on</p><span style="color: #ff0033;">People will not run from PvP so that they don't level.. that makes no sense. If they don't want to level it's so they can get PvP, not run from it.It will make more PvP in the end game, which, believe it or not despite these whining threads, is what SOE intends for their LEVEL BASED MMO.  There will still be PvP in the lower tiers, just not as much twinking in tier 2. In upper tier 3 and into tier 4 the xp starts getting pretty minute. You will be able to lock and level slowly and enjoy content and PvP still. You just will not be able to STAY one level for a year.</span><p>also i highly doubt this game will see that many more new players.. for one Eq2 takes searching to even find up to date copies where i live in Houston.. heck i downloaded the free trial after letting my wow account expire and i loved it and on that same day i went to 5 differnt game stops within a 20 mile ratius of me... finnaly i found one that best buy had in the back... now that ROK is out im sure there will be more copys at the store but that still wont help... you have to look at if somebody has to choose between a MMO they will choose WOW first just do to how popular it is...</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Maybe you don't see the box on the shelves because everyone that tries the game tells their friends not to because of all the twinks, making it a poor seller. </span><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p><span style="color: #ff0033;">(sarcasm btw)</span> </p><p>just rember SOE giving in to a few high lvl players and changing the whole face of PVP would be the worst mistake you have done since SWG....</p><p><span style="color: #ff0033;">Bringing up SWG in any thread immediately leads me to discredit the rest of it. SWG changes were FORCED upon SOE. They were made to. It's the only big mess up in SOE's history imo. Before bringing up Vanguard or Matrix, keep in mind SOE did not develop or launch those games, they saved them from shutting down, and have since done a much better job on them than the original developers did.</span></p></blockquote>

ckl
12-08-2007, 11:00 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite> <blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>This is a PVP server.  I don't see what's wrong with actually encouraging more pvp for a change, rather than 99% of the rule changes that come out that discourage/decrease it.</blockquote>It ain't "PvP" that's being discouraged. Its the griefing. I understand that a small minority is being affected by the change. But, you'll see that the majority who is responsible is not responding or even posting. Or, they aren't mentioning their <b>real</b> in game activities. The real PvP's at T2 never witness the source of the problem because they don't frequent the newbie zones.. they don't need to cause they're looking for fair fights elsewhere.Unfortunately, at the end of the day, its the start zone campers that ruined it for everyone who locked at T2 and played the game as intended. I see SOE's strategy here.. they may lose some accounts.. and sadly some of those may be the sincere level lockers who enjoyed "true PvP" at that tier. But, they'll flush out bad trash and replace them with a deluge of new players who can enjoy the beginning of the game the way it was meant to. Fairly with no overwhelming odds that caused them to spend more time at the Revive zones than elsewhere./shrugsIts on the test server now. The devs will look it over and find a middle ground I suppose. Perhaps a solution will be found from the feedback that can make it acceptable to all. People quitting now, make me giggle. XD</blockquote><p>wow i just figured it out your all for the exp change so that all the other PVP server can be just as dead as yours...... yes im sure you when people quit it makes you giggle but i promise you it will not make SOE's pocket book giggle... just think if say a thousand  people leave do you know how much money that is a month that will no longr be going to SOE..</p><span style="color: #ff0000;">ROFL a thousand eh?</span><p> also get it through your head this will not help PVP it will kill it.. now you will have people running from PVP just so they dont lvl.. you will have PVP gear that willl only be good for like a day when  it takes insane amout OF PVP jsut to get a 1 day item come on</p><span style="color: #ff0033;">People will not run from PvP so that they don't level.. that makes no sense. If they don't want to level it's so they can get PvP, not run from it.It will make more PvP in the end game, which, believe it or not despite these whining threads, is what SOE intends for their LEVEL BASED MMO.  There will still be PvP in the lower tiers, just not as much twinking in tier 2. In upper tier 3 and into tier 4 the xp starts getting pretty minute. You will be able to lock and level slowly and enjoy content and PvP still. You just will not be able to STAY one level for a year.</span><p>also i highly doubt this game will see that many more new players.. for one Eq2 takes searching to even find up to date copies where i live in Houston.. heck i downloaded the free trial after letting my wow account expire and i loved it and on that same day i went to 5 differnt game stops within a 20 mile ratius of me... finnaly i found one that best buy had in the back... now that ROK is out im sure there will be more copys at the store but that still wont help... you have to look at if somebody has to choose between a MMO they will choose WOW first just do to how popular it is...</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Maybe you don't see the box on the shelves because everyone that tries the game tells their friends not to because of all the twinks, making it a poor seller. </span><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p><span style="color: #ff0033;">(sarcasm btw)</span> </p><p>just rember SOE giving in to a few high lvl players and changing the whole face of PVP would be the worst mistake you have done since SWG....</p><p><span style="color: #ff0033;">Bringing up SWG in any thread immediately leads me to discredit the rest of it. SWG changes were FORCED upon SOE. They were made to. It's the only big mess up in SOE's history imo. Before bringing up Vanguard or Matrix, keep in mind SOE did not develop or launch those games, they saved them from shutting down, and have since done a much better job on them than the original developers did.</span></p></blockquote></blockquote> Hmm.. what else should I know that Sony intends me to do in game? They already dictate way too much about what I do in the game. <cite> deepruntramp wrote:</cite><blockquote>I haven't seen a constructive or intelligent post from Bozidar or cklab since the OP. Hell, I haven't seen a constructive or intelligent post from cklab since the PvP change made it to test notes. I think you need to calm down and take a few days off from the game and forums.</blockquote>Guess you missed the following post. You've probably missed a lot; that or you have a selective memory.<cite>cklab wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><cite></cite>There are other methods to combat low level griefing. Maybe a mechanism to carnage flag someone griefing, or putting a half an hour carnage flag on someone if their average kill level is a certain amount below their own. This way there'd be a penalty for random, mindless killing.. and people would have to think, "Oh, I'd better not kill this green here, my average kill level is pretty low." It'd be especially effective if high levels were in the zone, because who wants to get one shotted themselves?<p>That way the T2 locked pvp--which for some reason you think doesn't exist anywhere, despite not playing on Nagafen--can continue, the griefing will be discouraged, and new players won't be so overwhelmed. The only people who lose out are the people in the higher tiers who for some reason have a sense of entitlement that their tier should be where all PVP takes place.</p><p>And to the people who say the game's about questing, questing and more questing.. No. It isn't. It's a computer roleplaying game, which should allow the player freedom to do as he pleases (and ideally, to be punished for overt griefing). That's what we call sandbox games, folks. Maybe you haven't played one before, and maybe you shouldn't if you feel the need for the developers to determine your gameplay style for you. It'd be nice for every style to be encouraged and allowed.</p></blockquote>

seahawk
12-09-2007, 12:31 AM
<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>seahawk91 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Fair enough, but that is what SoE is really addressing with this fix.  Let's be honest.  </p></blockquote><p>i'll read the rest later, and stop you right here</p><p>be honest, you haven't the foggiest clue in the world what SOE is doing other than what they tell us.  and what they tell us is that they're changing all levels of play.</p><p>so unless you've got an SOE hall pass or something, please don't interpert what SOE is doing for the rest of us.</p></blockquote><p>I may not have the "foggiest" idea as you so eloquently put it, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out <b><i>what</i></b> SoE is doing.  Do you actually think that getting exp for PVP will rocket everyone into the dreaded Tier 8 world of pvp?  Come on, be smarter than that.  Getting exp from kills will move people into the next tier much quicker, tier 3, allowing the influx of new accounts to actually enjoy the game.  I am not going to hash out the current status of tier 2 pvp.  It is what it is.  Once you hit mid tier 3, the exp slows down and if you want to lock and only level off of AA and PVP it will be slow and arduous.</p><p> Essentially, all this does is move the locked toons into the next tier.  Period.  AFter that, those locked will move along rather slowly enabling them to gather their AA and keep their fabled and level ever so slowly.</p><p>This is not the end of the world people.  Whether you agree with me or not, something must be done about allowing new people a chance to play the game and <b><i>ENJOY THE GAME.</i></b></p><p>Once again, this is my opinion.  Feel free to agree or disagree.</p><p>** next time Bozidar, please read the whole post if you are going to reply. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Bozidar
12-09-2007, 01:13 AM
<p>Thanks, as a player with 2 toons leveling up already, and 4 locked in T3, i'm already struggling to get my AA on all my toons w/o just giving up on the game altogether because i'm sick of the various grinds (faction, aa, xp).</p><p>So i'm going to go ahead and feel free to disagree.  Any amount of extra xp when it's not wanted, will suck, and discourage me from playing the game.</p><p>give AA for every "non-grief" pvp kill.. and revitalize the pvp game.</p>

toenukl
12-09-2007, 02:19 AM
<cite>cklab wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite> Hmm.. what else should I know that Sony intends me to do in game? They already dictate way too much about what I do in the game.</blockquote>Dude... it's a level based game. They obviously intend for you to level up.. this is not Quake.

Shindah
12-09-2007, 07:03 AM
<p>Back to the original post- I think,</p><p>If the xp amount is so small then give equal AA  GREAT Idea</p><p>This is the kind of suggestions we want sony to hear, NOT I love the change, I hate the change.</p><p>Make a heap of writs for AA only so you still have to quest for them, GReat idea again!</p><p>penalize griefers with fame hits for killing recents if recents dont attack first etc etc!</p><p>At first i was so against this change if it were to go live, but if these sort of suggestions keep comeing up maybe it really can be turned into a win/win for all..  Hell maybe ill bring my lev 49toon with i think 11 AA give or take one  out again for a spin if these sort of logical ideas were taken note of by the devs.</p><p>Done right i personally think a change like this would revive pvp, Done wrong im certain it will hurt it very badly!</p><p>Well my two cents in.  Good hunting all and take care.....</p>

Bozidar
12-09-2007, 11:16 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>cklab wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Hmm.. what else should I know that Sony intends me to do in game? They already dictate way too much about what I do in the game.</blockquote>Dude... it's a level based game. They obviously intend for you to level up.. this is not Quake.</blockquote>and yet they included (and still have) a function to lock your combat xp.

ladyvengeance
12-09-2007, 01:15 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>cklab wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Hmm.. what else should I know that Sony intends me to do in game? They already dictate way too much about what I do in the game.</blockquote>Dude... it's a level based game. They obviously intend for you to level up.. this is not Quake.</blockquote>WRONG. It's a quest-based game. Thus the name.....EverQUEST.

Skywarrior
12-09-2007, 01:36 PM
<p>I'm not a PvP player, so I'm making a couple points I hope simply based on the merit of logic rather than personal interest.  </p><p>The whole argument of AA progression seems a rather moot point to me.  AAs are important to gain and use because all of your competition has them and the new player then must gain them as rapidly as possible in order to compete effectively.  Now, if xp is granted for all pvp kills and noone can remain in T2 long enough to accumulate a significant number of AAs, then the problem is no longer acute for the new player and they may then enjoy the pvp game against each other without significant worry that they have no hope without first accumulating a page full of AA skills.</p><p>AAs have RELATIVE importance, not ABSOLUTE importance.  Once the playing field is leveled (as older T2/max AA players level out of T2) the emphasis on gaining AAs should decrease (I would say WILL but I may be missing something).  Obviously, it will never disappear, since AA skills do play a role in relative power but the rate at which competitive players need to gain them should decrease as the time available to do so decreases. </p><p>I don't think that gaining AA through just any PvP kill is the right way to do things.  In PvE you don't gain AA for just any mob kill either (unless you are max level, by which point who cares).  So maybe AA should be granted for killling 'named' PvP players - the top, say, 5% ranked in each tier, and only by players of lower rank in the same tier.  The AA granted should be commensurate with the difficulty of the encounter, and only granted once for any given 'named', just like in PvE.</p><p>Additionally, why could there not be PvP-related quests that granted AA experience?  These could be as simple as "Bring me x number of enemy tokens" and the reward would be AA exp, maybe faction, and maybe an item or cash reward.  However, just like in PvE quests, any quest reward that includes AA exp should also include Combat exp.</p><p>EQ2 is a level-based PvE game that has some modifications made to it to accomodate PvP play.  Even the PvP servers are still, at their core, PvE servers with some additional code to allow for PvP behaviors.  I think changes that can be made simply that benefit the PvP playstyle without trampling all over the basic concept of the game are possibly more likely to see the light of day than changes that bring the game closer to a fantasy version of Counterstrike.  But maybe I'm just a clueless carebear.  Shrug.</p>

KannaWhoopass
12-09-2007, 01:57 PM
<p>Heh too funny </p><p>Ok so now that all of those who argue that i need to lock so i can wait for my friend .. can still lock and wait for their friend.</p><p>Those who want to lock , and Expierience all of the game content can still , lock and expierience the game content . </p><p>Those who want to PvP will need to PvP .. alot .. to get PvP rewards.. </p><p>So where is the problem ?</p><p>I can tell you who has a problem ... The same people who created the problem in the first place.. Those who want to lock .. and grid AA points .. so they can stay at low levels and gank </p><p>new players .. who stand no chance .. well good for you .. now you can still grind AA's and gank low level players .. for a little while before you ding.. where you can grind more AA points and gank semi new players .. and ding .. then you can spend more time in  less wide open zones .. with more risk .. and more expierienced players .. .. </p><p>Awww im sry an element of risk was introduced to your game... and that killing players will result in locked players moving up towards players with similar skill levels. </p><p>It wouldnt have happened if there wasnt a problem with people ganking the snot out of new people to the game.. and locked gank squad guilds .. well blame yourselvs for having a playstyle </p><p>that discouraged the growth of the game .. and diminished the enjoyment of new players ... </p><p>Bout time they changed it.. </p><p>Level up and play with the big boys .. where is that lame welcome to the jungle post then ya need it.</p>

PeaSy1
12-09-2007, 04:58 PM
I wonder if people realize or sony in this case how bad this is gonna hurt pvp.....because people arent gonna wanna fight period unless its for a fame gain..its gonna ruin pvp and i hope someone wakes up and stops it from going live.

PeaSy1
12-09-2007, 05:02 PM
and in reallity the only people that are enjoying this change is the higher tiered players because over time people will fluxuate into that high tier....a more logical change in the same aspect would be to enable this feature to a certain lvl say 30. And then it becomes disabled. Cause honeslty ive pvped in all tiers and my favorite is below tier 4.

Bozidar
12-09-2007, 10:10 PM
<cite>Skywarrior wrote:</cite><blockquote><p> In PvE you don't gain AA for just any mob kill either (unless you are max level, by which point who cares).  </p></blockquote><p>in PvE you dont' gain xp when you have combat xp disabled.</p><p>the rules are changing.  You can't compare PVE to PVP any longer, they've diverted from the ruleset too much.  Honestly, i don't see the harm here, what's everyone worried about if they give out AA along with the pvp XP?  seems like a great compromise to me.</p>

deepruntramp
12-09-2007, 10:55 PM
<cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>cklab wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hmm.. what else should I know that Sony intends me to do in game? They already dictate way too much about what I do in the game.</blockquote>Dude... it's a level based game. They obviously intend for you to level up.. this is not Quake.</blockquote>WRONG. It's a quest-based game. Thus the name.....EverQUEST.</blockquote>This is a really stupid meme and I hope it burns out soon.  If you played the original Ever"Quest," you'd know not to judge a game by its title.Also, mob grinding becomes more and more important as you level up.  Quest XP doesn't keep up forever.

seejester
12-10-2007, 06:36 PM
OP is spot-on IMO.SOE, please take note...

Zacarus
12-10-2007, 07:19 PM
<cite>cklab wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>This is a PVP server.  I don't see what's wrong with actually encouraging more pvp for a change, rather than 99% of the rule changes that come out that discourage/decrease it.</blockquote>It ain't "PvP" that's being discouraged. Its the griefing. I understand that a small minority is being affected by the change. But, you'll see that the majority who is responsible is not responding or even posting. Or, they aren't mentioning their <b>real</b> in game activities. The real PvP's at T2 never witness the source of the problem because they don't frequent the newbie zones.. they don't need to cause they're looking for fair fights elsewhere.Unfortunately, at the end of the day, its the start zone campers that ruined it for everyone who locked at T2 and played the game as intended. I see SOE's strategy here.. they may lose some accounts.. and sadly some of those may be the sincere level lockers who enjoyed "true PvP" at that tier. But, they'll flush out bad trash and replace them with a deluge of new players who can enjoy the beginning of the game the way it was meant to. Fairly with no overwhelming odds that caused them to spend more time at the Revive zones than elsewhere./shrugsIts on the test server now. The devs will look it over and find a middle ground I suppose. Perhaps a solution will be found from the feedback that can make it acceptable to all. People quitting now, make me giggle. XD</blockquote><p>There are other methods to combat low level griefing. Maybe a mechanism to carnage flag someone griefing, or putting a half an hour carnage flag on someone if their average kill level is a certain amount below their own. This way there'd be a penalty for random, mindless killing.. and people would have to think, "Oh, I'd better not kill this green here, my average kill level is pretty low." It'd be especially effective if high levels were in the zone, because who wants to get one shotted themselves?</p><p>That way the T2 locked pvp--which for some reason you think doesn't exist anywhere, despite not playing on Nagafen--can continue, the griefing will be discouraged, and new players won't be so overwhelmed. The only people who lose out are the people in the higher tiers who for some reason have a sense of entitlement that their tier should be where all PVP takes place.</p><p>And to the people who say the game's about questing, questing and more questing.. No. It isn't. It's a computer roleplaying game, which should allow the player freedom to do as he pleases (and ideally, to be punished for overt griefing). That's what we call sandbox games, folks. Maybe you haven't played one before, and maybe you shouldn't if you feel the need for the developers to determine your gameplay style for you. It'd be nice for every style to be encouraged and allowed.</p></blockquote>/thumbs up to this post.  I dig the carnage flag idea.Ok, here's my personal little compromise list:1.  Award xp for pvp kills if target was on /recent2.  If you kill someone on /recent you are carnage flagged for 1/2 hour

XEmericaSurfe
12-11-2007, 03:44 AM
<p>Great idea to the OP. People shouldnt have to choose between PvP and AA.</p><p>~not a fan of the carnage/ exp charge on recents...what if they attack you again or round up some friends?~ (maybe I misunderstand...its late)  <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/499fd50bc713bfcdf2ab5a23c00c2d62.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

ladyvengeance
12-11-2007, 04:03 AM
I do like the idea of being carnage flagged if you attack a recent kill, but not the xp gain if you attack a recent. However, this opens opportunities for potential exploits. What if a /recent attacks you and you kill hiim again? Would you still be carnage flagged? If so you'll have people just attacking so you get carnage flagged, and then the 80s will come in and roll everyone over. CL and DLW might be riddled with higher levels looking for those carngage kills (which is fine, IMO).

BWLeeEllison
12-11-2007, 04:22 AM
<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Ok, i know a lot of folks aren't fans of this, and many are jumping up and down for joy now that their griping has made the aforementioned people miserable.  But I have some good ideas that SOE can take, and make this thing a win-win.</p><p>A) As mentioned elsewhere, up the starting faction for pvp gear, or reward more faction/kill, or GREATLY increase the amount of faction that tokens give.  I don't need to elaborate here.</p><p>B) Many of us who lock do so to equip our character with AA, so that we can adequately compete in the pvp world.  If you wish that we always gain xp for a PVP kill, then please also reward AA for all pvp kills.  Make it a comperable amount of AA as per the XP rewarded.</p><p>This will greatly increase pvp, and may lead to a pvp system where people actually SEEK OUT pvp, rather than avoid it.</p><p>Make every pvp kill like a quest turn in.  If we have to get xp for it, then give us AA for it too.</p><p>note : i know this opens the world up for exploiting for AA, but who cares?  If they're getting xp and AA then so be it.. it's pvp.  they opened us up to token farming, why not this too?</p></blockquote>I could agree with getting AP from a pvp kill, but not a comparable amount.  AP earnings from PvP should be akin to the AP earnings for someone maxxed out in level.  Very small, but sufficient.

Snosael
12-11-2007, 04:53 AM
<cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote>I do like the idea of being carnage flagged if you attack a recent kill, but not the xp gain if you attack a recent. However, this opens opportunities for potential exploits. What if a /recent attacks you and you kill hiim again? Would you still be carnage flagged? If so you'll have people just attacking so you get carnage flagged, and then the 80s will come in and roll everyone over. CL and DLW might be riddled with higher levels looking for those carngage kills (which is fine, IMO). </blockquote><p>If a /recent attacks they should immediately drop off of any /recent list they are on.  This would protect the newbie from greifing.  But also eliminate that exploit you mentioned.  </p><p>Your thought about what the high lvls would do is totally correct.  The WORSE greifing ive ever seen is by the high lvls oneshotting low lvl exiles.  They dont kill and move on.  Its a grief fest.</p>

ladyvengeance
12-11-2007, 07:18 AM
I had forgotten about the griefing that I got as an exile. When my lvl 24 conjuror betrayed, I think I must have gotten ganked about 40-50 times, ALL by lvl 70s. Over and over again. Lvl 70s would not only camp the faction guy in front of NQ gate, but also the entrance into Haven in TS. I have never seen a worse case of griefing. They would chase me all over Antonica using speed buffs and other nonsense. So all you T7s and T8s who are whining about T2 people griefing noobs ---- you're all a bunch of hypocrites.  

voxranger
12-11-2007, 09:58 AM
<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Ok, i know a lot of folks aren't fans of this, and many are jumping up and down for joy now that their griping has made the aforementioned people miserable.  But I have some good ideas that SOE can take, and make this thing a win-win.</p><p>A) As mentioned elsewhere, up the starting faction for pvp gear, or reward more faction/kill, or GREATLY increase the amount of faction that tokens give.  I don't need to elaborate here.</p><p>B) Many of us who lock do so to equip our character with AA, so that we can adequately compete in the pvp world.  If you wish that we always gain xp for a PVP kill, then please also reward AA for all pvp kills.  Make it a comperable amount of AA as per the XP rewarded.</p><p>This will greatly increase pvp, and may lead to a pvp system where people actually SEEK OUT pvp, rather than avoid it.</p><p>Make every pvp kill like a quest turn in.  If we have to get xp for it, then give us AA for it too.</p><p>note : i know this opens the world up for exploiting for AA, but who cares?  If they're getting xp and AA then so be it.. it's pvp.  they opened us up to token farming, why not this too?</p></blockquote><p>Man, talk about tunnel vision - the twinkers are really comming from a sense of entitlement. The arguments I see see comming from them assume that in order to pvp you must max out your gear an max out your aa. In the current environment, this is true, however, once the changes go into affect, everyone will have to skill up, pick a development strategy, carefully choose where to spend aa, quest, raid, and maybe even harvest or tradeskill. </p><p>My friends I have leveled into 70's maxing out aa along the way and obtained titles without pvp gear or locking. </p><p>This new change will put everyone on a level playing field, and even those folks who don't have a high level alt to feed thier character coin will the see the light at the end of the tunne.</p><p>Long story short: maxed out gear and aa is not a prerequisite to succeed in pvp. Now people are gonna have to make difficult decisions as they level, put more time into skills as opposed to farming, and actually engage some of the pve content for quality gear (which, i might add, more of the opponents will have access to and probably have with the rok update).</p><p>Enough already with the complaining that the level locking changes will ruin pvp - it will only do so if your idea of ruining pvp involves farming newbies for max gear and aa. For the rest of us, we will continue having fun as we gain aa and gear from leveling, harvesting, and tradeskilling - and pvp'ing with those players who cross our paths as we hunt or quest. </p><p>Looks like we are all going to have to work on our skills and strategies now that farming and camping is no longer a viable option.<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Bozidar
12-11-2007, 10:51 AM
<cite>voxranger wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Man, talk about tunnel vision - the twinkers are really comming from a sense of entitlement. The arguments I see see comming from them assume that in order to pvp you must max out your gear an max out your aa. In the current environment, this is true, however, once the changes go into affect, everyone will have to skill up, pick a development strategy, carefully choose where to spend aa, quest, raid, and maybe even harvest or tradeskill. </p><p>My friends I have leveled into 70's maxing out aa along the way and obtained titles without pvp gear or locking. </p><p>This new change will put everyone on a level playing field, and even those folks who don't have a high level alt to feed thier character coin will the see the light at the end of the tunne.</p><p>Long story short: maxed out gear and aa is not a prerequisite to succeed in pvp. Now people are gonna have to make difficult decisions as they level, put more time into skills as opposed to farming, and actually engage some of the pve content for quality gear (which, i might add, more of the opponents will have access to and probably have with the rok update).</p><p>Enough already with the complaining that the level locking changes will ruin pvp - it will only do so if your idea of ruining pvp involves farming newbies for max gear and aa. For the rest of us, we will continue having fun as we gain aa and gear from leveling, harvesting, and tradeskilling - and pvp'ing with those players who cross our paths as we hunt or quest. </p><p>Looks like we are all going to have to work on our skills and strategies now that farming and camping is no longer a viable option.<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote><p>No, I want to max out my gear and AA, and I want to pvp too.  The proposed change by the devs will for all intents and purposes remove that possible style of play, so I am suggesting an alternative that might continue that playstyle but in a way that is supplimentary to their change rather than trying to rage against the machine.</p><p>Enough already with the "oh no, don't have a reasonable debate on the topic just suck it up and play the game the way i want you to rather than the way you want to".</p>

WasFycksir
12-11-2007, 11:31 AM
<p>I started a topic a while ago with an idea similar to this.  I searched for it, but the system couldn't find it.</p><p>My idea was to have AA given on the first kill of any PVP player, they are "named" after all.  I don't recall know if I said it first or if another person suggested that only kills after level 20 (for example) would count, to avoid friend-farming.  There was also discussion on how much AA exp per kill would be granted.</p><p>The idea was pretty much shot down though by most of the posters iirc.</p>

seahawk
12-11-2007, 02:04 PM
<cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote>I had forgotten about the griefing that I got as an exile. When my lvl 24 conjuror betrayed, I think I must have gotten ganked about 40-50 times, ALL by lvl 70s. Over and over again. Lvl 70s would not only camp the faction guy in front of NQ gate, but also the entrance into Haven in TS. I have never seen a worse case of griefing. They would chase me all over Antonica using speed buffs and other nonsense. So all you T7s and T8s who are whining about T2 people griefing noobs ---- you're all a bunch of hypocrites.  </blockquote><p>This statement tells me you know nothing about tier 7/8 pvp.  I don't know of any, I repeat <b><i>ANY </i></b>toon that has ever <b><i>camped</i></b> a tier 2 respawn point just to gank exiles.  That is ridiculous.  If they happen to see an exile while going from point A to point B, sure they will probably kill them, just for giggles or maybe even for faction.  But what is the telling point in your statement is that faction in tier 7/8 means diddley squat!  It's all about the tokens.  There are a few faction pieces that are still pretty good, but for the most we all want tokens and "griefing" tier 2 exiles doesn't give tokens.</p><p>The funny thing about this whole debate is, the majority of the locked toons that are <b><i>complaining, </i></b>admit to not pvp'ing in tier 8, or have no desire to pvp in tier 8.  But yet, they sure seem to know all about tier 8 pvp from absolutely no first hand experience.  While every tier 8 pvp'r at point in time pvp'd in tier 2.  They speak from first hand knowledge.</p>

tequiero
12-11-2007, 02:13 PM
<cite>seahawk91 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote>I had forgotten about the griefing that I got as an exile. When my lvl 24 conjuror betrayed, I think I must have gotten ganked about 40-50 times, ALL by lvl 70s. Over and over again. Lvl 70s would not only camp the faction guy in front of NQ gate, but also the entrance into Haven in TS. I have never seen a worse case of griefing. They would chase me all over Antonica using speed buffs and other nonsense. So all you T7s and T8s who are whining about T2 people griefing noobs ---- you're all a bunch of hypocrites.  </blockquote><p>This statement tells me you know nothing about tier 7/8 pvp.  I don't know of any, I repeat <b><i>ANY </i></b>toon that has ever <b><i>camped</i></b> a tier 2 respawn point just to gank exiles.  That is ridiculous.  If they happen to see an exile while going from point A to point B, sure they will probably kill them, just for giggles or maybe even for faction.  But what is the telling point in your statement is that faction in tier 7/8 means diddley squat!  It's all about the tokens.  There are a few faction pieces that are still pretty good, but for the most we all want tokens and "griefing" tier 2 exiles doesn't give tokens.</p><p>The funny thing about this whole debate is, the majority of the locked toons that are <b><i>complaining, </i></b>admit to not pvp'ing in tier 8, or have no desire to pvp in tier 8.  But yet, they sure seem to know all about tier 8 pvp from absolutely no first hand experience.  While every tier 8 pvp'r at point in time pvp'd in tier 2.  They speak from first hand knowledge.</p></blockquote>i couldnt have said better myself and second of all  you cant kill exile no mor eunleast you are in there lvl range.

ckl
12-11-2007, 02:20 PM
<cite>seahawk91 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote>I had forgotten about the griefing that I got as an exile. When my lvl 24 conjuror betrayed, I think I must have gotten ganked about 40-50 times, ALL by lvl 70s. Over and over again. Lvl 70s would not only camp the faction guy in front of NQ gate, but also the entrance into Haven in TS. I have never seen a worse case of griefing. They would chase me all over Antonica using speed buffs and other nonsense. So all you T7s and T8s who are whining about T2 people griefing noobs ---- you're all a bunch of hypocrites.  </blockquote><p>This statement tells me you know nothing about tier 7/8 pvp.  I don't know of any, I repeat <b><i>ANY </i></b>toon that has ever <b><i>camped</i></b> a tier 2 respawn point just to gank exiles.  That is ridiculous.  If they happen to see an exile while going from point A to point B, sure they will probably kill them, just for giggles or maybe even for faction.  But what is the telling point in your statement is that faction in tier 7/8 means diddley squat!  It's all about the tokens.  There are a few faction pieces that are still pretty good, but for the most we all want tokens and "griefing" tier 2 exiles doesn't give tokens.</p><p>The funny thing about this whole debate is, the majority of the locked toons that are <b><i>complaining, </i></b>admit to not pvp'ing in tier 8, or have no desire to pvp in tier 8.  But yet, they sure seem to know all about tier 8 pvp from absolutely no first hand experience.  While every tier 8 pvp'r at point in time pvp'd in tier 2.  They speak from first hand knowledge.</p></blockquote>Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it hasn't happened. She doesn't say anything them camping her for faction, either.

ckl
12-11-2007, 02:20 PM
<cite>tequiero wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>seahawk91 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote>I had forgotten about the griefing that I got as an exile. When my lvl 24 conjuror betrayed, I think I must have gotten ganked about 40-50 times, ALL by lvl 70s. Over and over again. Lvl 70s would not only camp the faction guy in front of NQ gate, but also the entrance into Haven in TS. I have never seen a worse case of griefing. They would chase me all over Antonica using speed buffs and other nonsense. So all you T7s and T8s who are whining about T2 people griefing noobs ---- you're all a bunch of hypocrites.  </blockquote><p>This statement tells me you know nothing about tier 7/8 pvp.  I don't know of any, I repeat <b><i>ANY </i></b>toon that has ever <b><i>camped</i></b> a tier 2 respawn point just to gank exiles.  That is ridiculous.  If they happen to see an exile while going from point A to point B, sure they will probably kill them, just for giggles or maybe even for faction.  But what is the telling point in your statement is that faction in tier 7/8 means diddley squat!  It's all about the tokens.  There are a few faction pieces that are still pretty good, but for the most we all want tokens and "griefing" tier 2 exiles doesn't give tokens.</p><p>The funny thing about this whole debate is, the majority of the locked toons that are <b><i>complaining, </i></b>admit to not pvp'ing in tier 8, or have no desire to pvp in tier 8.  But yet, they sure seem to know all about tier 8 pvp from absolutely no first hand experience.  While every tier 8 pvp'r at point in time pvp'd in tier 2.  They speak from first hand knowledge.</p></blockquote>i couldnt have said better myself and second of all  <b>you cant kill exile no mor eunleast you are in there lvl range.</b></blockquote>Think you're wrong on that.

tequiero
12-11-2007, 02:32 PM
nope i am not wrong that got nerf WAY BACK when peopel  was crying about   higher lvl was killing them ( so they made it so only peopel withing the lvl range can kill them  OR other exiles, but then againg  has to be in lvl range anyways so dosent matter

Bozidar
12-11-2007, 02:41 PM
<cite>tequiero wrote:</cite><blockquote>nope i am not wrong that got nerf WAY BACK when peopel  was crying about   higher lvl was killing them ( so they made it so only peopel withing the lvl range can kill them  OR other exiles, but then againg  has to be in lvl range anyways so dosent matter</blockquote>you're wrong, and stop derailing the thread.

tequiero
12-11-2007, 02:44 PM
<p>   i dont know what you smoking  beacuse a lvl 30 can go to antonica and kill a lvl 14 exile and scr ew learn to play  yeah if that lvl 14 comes to a open zone thats diffrent</p>

MasterJameson
12-11-2007, 02:45 PM
<p>just curious how this change affects griefing..at all lol...ok, so we get xp, but after that, the people are on recent and you get no xp anyway! so you can kill em over , and over and over and continue the griefing. so this change does nothing to combat "griefing" unless you are using "griefing" like a lot of the people that consider "ganking" and "griefing" as another word for "i got killed by another player" which is [Removed for Content] because welcome to the thunderdome [gonna remove explative by myself] you are on a pvp server, we are all gonna die at some point. i don't really care about this change myself, the release of RoK has done nothing but make me want to level up to 80, as the pvp in kylong and fens has been some of my funnest times in this game since the old days when we could get well over 100 kills per day...or the days huge groups of people gathered at the gates or TS griff or FP gates and battled it out...yea there was zergin, "griefin" and all the stuff everyone that whiners seem to hate, but at the end of the day you could type /pvp and see that after all that you had tens even hundreds more kills! anyway not knockin anyone, honestly, everyone is entitled to there opinion, and i hope this change makes more of the new people stick around and enjoy the game, its really a cool game and even though pvp seems to be an afterthought sometimes, this change shows that SoE is lookin at pvp and does want to make it better, even if we all don't aggree with how they are goin about it...and with all the changes, we are all still here and hopefully havein a great time...in new ways adaptin to the rules that we are givin. I look forward to seein how this latest change will affect EQ2, remember when t2 pvp didn't even exist? no one locked t2 til after evac was nerffed..that i noticed, at least not like they do now...</p><p>Gargaroth 75 SK</p><p>Lamont 70 brig</p><p>bunch of other formerly locked toons...</p>

Snosael
12-11-2007, 02:45 PM
<cite>seahawk91 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote>I had forgotten about the griefing that I got as an exile. When my lvl 24 conjuror betrayed, I think I must have gotten ganked about 40-50 times, ALL by lvl 70s. Over and over again. Lvl 70s would not only camp the faction guy in front of NQ gate, but also the entrance into Haven in TS. I have never seen a worse case of griefing. They would chase me all over Antonica using speed buffs and other nonsense. So all you T7s and T8s who are whining about T2 people griefing noobs ---- you're all a bunch of hypocrites.  </blockquote><p>This statement tells me you know nothing about tier 7/8 pvp.  I don't know of any, I repeat <b><i>ANY </i></b>toon that has ever <b><i>camped</i></b> a tier 2 respawn point just to gank exiles.  That is ridiculous.  If they happen to see an exile while going from point A to point B, sure they will probably kill them, just for giggles or maybe even for faction.  But what is the telling point in your statement is that faction in tier 7/8 means diddley squat!  It's all about the tokens.  There are a few faction pieces that are still pretty good, but for the most we all want tokens and "griefing" tier 2 exiles doesn't give tokens.</p><p>The funny thing about this whole debate is, the majority of the locked toons that are <b><i>complaining, </i></b>admit to not pvp'ing in tier 8, or have no desire to pvp in tier 8.  But yet, they sure seem to know all about tier 8 pvp from absolutely no first hand experience.  While every tier 8 pvp'r at point in time pvp'd in tier 2.  They speak from first hand knowledge.</p></blockquote><p>The only thing we are claiming the know about T8 pvp is the griefing we experienced FIRST HAND as exiles.  You comments reflect that these exile gankers are just doing it to grief.  T2 exiles dont give tokens?  [Removed for Content] do the get griefed so badly for then?  Ladyvengeance's point, and mine also, is that there are T8 griefers that are WAY WORSE than any we have seen in T2.</p>

Bozidar
12-11-2007, 02:50 PM
<cite>tequiero wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>   i dont know what you smoking  beacuse a lvl 30 can go to antonica and kill a lvl 14 exile and scr ew learn to play  yeah if that lvl 14 comes to a open zone thats diffrent</p></blockquote>*sigh* Any player lvl 10+ can attack any exile, anywhere that there are not in immunity. And don't tell me i'm wrong, please. I don't have the patience to verbally slap you around right now, just trust me. Now stop derailing.

tequiero
12-11-2007, 02:50 PM
<cite>MasterJameson wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>just curious how this change affects griefing..at all lol...ok, so we get xp, but after that, the people are on recent and you get no xp anyway! so you can kill em over , and over and over and continue the griefing. so this change does nothing to combat "griefing" unless you are using "griefing" like a lot of the people that consider "ganking" and "griefing" as another word for "i got killed by another player" which is [I cannot control my vocabulary] because welcome to the thunderdome [gonna remove explative by myself] you are on a pvp server, we are all gonna die at some point. i don't really care about this change myself, the release of RoK has done nothing but make me want to level up to 80, as the pvp in kylong and fens has been some of my funnest times in this game since the old days when we could get well over 100 kills per day...or the days huge groups of people gathered at the gates or TS griff or FP gates and battled it out...yea there was zergin, "griefin" and all the stuff everyone that whiners seem to hate, but at the end of the day you could type /pvp and see that after all that you had tens even hundreds more kills! anyway not knockin anyone, honestly, everyone is entitled to there opinion, and i hope this change makes more of the new people stick around and enjoy the game, its really a cool game and even though pvp seems to be an afterthought sometimes, this change shows that SoE is lookin at pvp and does want to make it better, even if we all don't aggree with how they are goin about it...and with all the changes, we are all still here and hopefully havein a great time...in new ways adaptin to the rules that we are givin. I look forward to seein how this latest change will affect EQ2, remember when t2 pvp didn't even exist? no one locked t2 til after evac was nerffed..that i noticed, at least not like they do now...</p><p>Gargaroth 75 SK</p><p>Lamont 70 brig</p><p>bunch of other formerly locked toons...</p></blockquote>i agree with you when people  say grifing to much  to much when they really mena ganking, butin that same token the people do do grieng  will eventually move on o another lvl and spend more money  to retwink and   face    classes that became harder cause now those classes got new spells and  better abilities. 

seahawk
12-11-2007, 03:06 PM
<cite>Snosael wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>seahawk91 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote>I had forgotten about the griefing that I got as an exile. When my lvl 24 conjuror betrayed, I think I must have gotten ganked about 40-50 times, ALL by lvl 70s. Over and over again. Lvl 70s would not only camp the faction guy in front of NQ gate, but also the entrance into Haven in TS. I have never seen a worse case of griefing. They would chase me all over Antonica using speed buffs and other nonsense. So all you T7s and T8s who are whining about T2 people griefing noobs ---- you're all a bunch of hypocrites.  </blockquote><p>This statement tells me you know nothing about tier 7/8 pvp.  I don't know of any, I repeat <b><i>ANY </i></b>toon that has ever <b><i>camped</i></b> a tier 2 respawn point just to gank exiles.  That is ridiculous.  If they happen to see an exile while going from point A to point B, sure they will probably kill them, just for giggles or maybe even for faction.  But what is the telling point in your statement is that faction in tier 7/8 means diddley squat!  It's all about the tokens.  There are a few faction pieces that are still pretty good, but for the most we all want tokens and "griefing" tier 2 exiles doesn't give tokens.</p><p>The funny thing about this whole debate is, the majority of the locked toons that are <b><i>complaining, </i></b>admit to not pvp'ing in tier 8, or have no desire to pvp in tier 8.  But yet, they sure seem to know all about tier 8 pvp from absolutely no first hand experience.  While every tier 8 pvp'r at point in time pvp'd in tier 2.  They speak from first hand knowledge.</p></blockquote><p>The only thing we are claiming the know about T8 pvp is the griefing we experienced FIRST HAND as exiles.  You comments reflect that these exile gankers are just doing it to grief.  <b><i><span style="color: #cc0000;">T2 exiles dont give tokens</span></i></b>?  <b><i><span style="color: #cc0000;">[I cannot control my vocabulary] do the get griefed so badly for then</span></i></b>?  Ladyvengeance's point, and mine also, is that there are T8 griefers that are WAY WORSE than any we have seen in T2.</p></blockquote><p>someone level 75 that kills a t2 exile, or t3, t4, t5, t6 for that matter gets nothing but faction from them.  period.  If you are tier 2, and kill a tier 2 exile, then yes you get a token.</p><p>Why do they kill t2 exiles then? It could be for faction.. but like I mentioned before faction really means nothing in tier 7/8.  If a tier 7/8 is griefing, and by griefing I mean killing the same toon over and over again, while that toon is still on their recent then that person in t7/8 is a tool.  This game has tools for sure, but I don't know of anyone or even heard of anyone in t7/8 that says, "hey, let's go camp exile spots in Antonica for the next hour to kill exiles".</p><p>More than likely, if you are a tier 2 exile and happen to see a level 75 toon and they kill you, they do it because they can.  Sad, but probably true.  But then again, no one ever said exiling or being an exile is an easy life.  Especially in tier 2.</p><p>As for your comment about t8 griefers being <b><i>WAY WORSE</i></b>,  that is simply not true.  IF you are exile, and are staying exile then that is the life you choose so suck it up or choose a city.</p><p>Once again, play in tier 8 and then compare experiences FIRST HAND.  Your first hand experience is skewed because you choose to play in a faction that allows you to be attackable by everyone and all levels.  That my friend, is a choice you made.</p>

seahawk
12-11-2007, 03:09 PM
<cite>MasterJameson wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><b><i><span style="color: #cc0000;">just curious how this change affects griefing..at all lol...ok, so we get xp, but after that, the people are on recent and you get no xp anyway</span></i></b>! so you can kill em over , and over and over and continue the griefing. so this change does nothing to combat "griefing" unless you are using "griefing" like a lot of the people that consider "ganking" and "griefing" as another word for "i got killed by another player" which is [I cannot control my vocabulary] because welcome to the thunderdome [gonna remove explative by myself] you are on a pvp server, we are all gonna die at some point. i don't really care about this change myself, the release of RoK has done nothing but make me want to level up to 80, as the pvp in kylong and fens has been some of my funnest times in this game since the old days when we could get well over 100 kills per day...or the days huge groups of people gathered at the gates or TS griff or FP gates and battled it out...yea there was zergin, "griefin" and all the stuff everyone that whiners seem to hate, but at the end of the day you could type /pvp and see that after all that you had tens even hundreds more kills! anyway not knockin anyone, honestly, everyone is entitled to there opinion, and i hope this change makes more of the new people stick around and enjoy the game, its really a cool game and even though pvp seems to be an afterthought sometimes, this change shows that SoE is lookin at pvp and does want to make it better, even if we all don't aggree with how they are goin about it...and with all the changes, we are all still here and hopefully havein a great time...in new ways adaptin to the rules that we are givin. I look forward to seein how this latest change will affect EQ2, remember when t2 pvp didn't even exist? no one locked t2 til after evac was nerffed..that i noticed, at least not like they do now...</p><p>Gargaroth 75 SK</p><p>Lamont 70 brig</p><p>bunch of other formerly locked toons...</p></blockquote>You won't get faction or fame from recent list kills, but you still get exp. 

Snosael
12-11-2007, 03:19 PM
<cite>seahawk91 wrote:</cite> <blockquote><p>Why do they kill t2 exiles then? It could be for faction.. but like I mentioned before faction really means nothing in tier 7/8.  If a tier 7/8 is griefing, and by griefing I mean killing the same toon over and over again, while that toon is still on their recent then that person in t7/8 is a tool.  This game has tools for sure, but I don't know of anyone or even heard of anyone in t7/8 that says, "hey, let's go camp exile spots in Antonica for the next hour to kill exiles".</p><p><span style="color: #ff3333;"> Maybe you havent heard it, but i can tell I SEE it all the time.  More often than I see T2 twinks griefing other T2s. </span> </p><p>More than likely, if you are a tier 2 exile and happen to see a level 75 toon and they kill you, they do it because they can.  Sad, but probably true.  But then again, no one ever said exiling or being an exile is an easy life.  Especially in tier 2.</p><p><span style="color: #ff3333;">True, and T2 exiles accept it.  They aren't in the forums crying about T8s griefing them.  The T8s are here crying that there are T2s that dont want to lvl up and play with them.</span></p><p>Once again, play in tier 8 and then compare experiences FIRST HAND.  Your first hand experience is skewed because you choose to play in a faction that allows you to be attackable by everyone and all levels.  That my friend, is a choice you made.</p><p><span style="color: #ff6633;">I dont want to play T8.  Also, that has nothing to do with my point.  I do HAVE first hand experience of both T2 griefing of T2s and T8 griefing of T2s.  </span></p></blockquote>

seahawk
12-11-2007, 03:44 PM
<cite>Snosael wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>seahawk91 wrote:</cite> <blockquote><p>Why do they kill t2 exiles then? It could be for faction.. but like I mentioned before faction really means nothing in tier 7/8.  If a tier 7/8 is griefing, and by griefing I mean killing the same toon over and over again, while that toon is still on their recent then that person in t7/8 is a tool.  This game has tools for sure, but I don't know of anyone or even heard of anyone in t7/8 that says, "hey, let's go camp exile spots in Antonica for the next hour to kill exiles".</p><p><span style="color: #ff3333;"> Maybe you havent heard it, but i can tell I SEE it all the time.  More often than I see T2 twinks griefing other T2s. </span> </p><p>More than likely, if you are a tier 2 exile and happen to see a level 75 toon and they kill you, they do it because they can.  Sad, but probably true.  But then again, no one ever said exiling or being an exile is an easy life.  Especially in tier 2.</p><p><span style="color: #ff3333;">True, and T2 exiles accept it.  They aren't in the forums crying about T8s griefing them.  The T8s are here crying that there are T2s that dont want to lvl up and play with them.</span></p><p>Once again, play in tier 8 and then compare experiences FIRST HAND.  Your first hand experience is skewed because you choose to play in a faction that allows you to be attackable by everyone and all levels.  That my friend, is a choice you made.</p><p><span style="color: #ff6633;">I dont want to play T8.  Also, that has nothing to do with my point.  I do HAVE first hand experience of both T2 griefing of T2s and T8 griefing of T2s.  </span></p></blockquote></blockquote><p>You don't have first hand experience as a tier 8 witnessing "griefing" on tier 2, and that was my point.</p><p>Let me ask you though, why do you lock at tier 2?  Why not say tier 3 or tier 4?  I think I have a pretty good idea.</p><p>1/ things cost cheaper to twink.</p><p>2/ easy to get to tier 2.. a couple hours tops, if you are not new to the game.</p><p>3/ the game is rather simple, not as many CA's and buffs to worry about.</p><p>4/ the vast amount of people in that tier.</p><p>(( these are just a few reasons, I know there are more reasons, and more complicated reasons.. this is just the basic ones or the most obvious ))</p><p>I am guessing that number 4 is probably the biggest reason.  Have you ever wondered why tier 2 has soo many more people than say the other tiers?  </p><p>For one, it is a bit more difficult and time consuming to level up.  Although, it is still rather easy, but that is beside the point.  The biggest reason tier 2 has the largest population is mainly because of the fresh blood that <b><i>STILL PLAY THE GAME.  </i></b>They haven't given up yet, so you still have new people trying to play this game.  I don't have any numbers to back me up, but I would love to see what kind of retention rate SoE has on their pvp for new accounts in the last 6 months.  Of course, I mean true new accounts, not someone opening a second account.</p><p>Another reason is the lack of zones, at least till RoK came out.. tier 2 was pretty much Ant/CL for the longest time, then DLW came out. So you never had to look far for PVP.  NOw you have timerous deep so your zones are spread out and that would make leveling a bit easier as the congestion is somewhat alleviated.</p><p>The reality is toons locked in tier 2 for PVP was/is killing the new blood to the game.  SoE needed to move those people out of tier 2 and this fix does this.  When you have level 17 toons with 600 or more kills, I mean come on? What's the point?</p><p>As for your comment that tier 8 is just wanting more people so they can kill them, well tbh I could care less if you came to tier 8 or not.  I find plenty of pvp when I want it.  I just want the new guy who just bought the game a month ago to be able to get there in say 6-9 months so I can kill him/her.  They may actually want to get to tier 8 and see the whole game.  If they get too frustrated and quit the game 45 days later b/c they can't get anything done in the lower tiers, they then just assume the rest of the game will be the same way till they get to 80 and then they say screw this I am going to play something else.</p><p>When that happens, the game will become stagnat.</p>

Bloodfa
12-11-2007, 03:55 PM
If you get killed in Nettleville, or South Qeynos, doing a betrayal quest as an exile, it sucks.  And so does the person who did it.  I've messed around with high-level toons betraying (throw a knife at them) but it doesn't kill them.  I wave and smile, then go on my way; just screwing with them (and carnage flagging myself).  Many of us have shouted out "Don't kill the 14, they're trying to betray!", because [Removed for Content], it's obvious that a 14 is there for one reason and one reason only.  Sometimes it gets ignored; nothing you can do to stop a friendly from acting like a jerk.  I even had an 80 send me a tell stating "I don't like being told what to do", and then proceeded to get ugly about it.  Insult back and tellign them welcome to /ignore guarantees the last shot, though, heheh.  <i>That</i> is the kind of 80 that will grief somebody betraying, but those people are few & far between, and also the kind that would make FFA PvP a joy for all... not.  More than likely it's a toon in their 20's or 30's conning red and one-shotting you.  Still, it's a crappy thing to do ... anyway, just pointing that out.  If an exile is obviously trying to head in for the betrayal, the majority will ignore you.  But it only takes one to send you packing.  Now, if you're in Antonica, there's really no way to tell which way you're going to go, so that's a different story.  I've killed more than a few that were obviously heading <i>out</i> of Qeynos; you see a high-elf exile, it's a safe assumption he ain't just running to Freeport for a slice of pizza and trotting right back home.

Snosael
12-11-2007, 04:16 PM
<cite>seahawk91 wrote:</cite> <blockquote><p>You don't have first hand experience as a tier 8 witnessing "griefing" on tier 2, and that was my point.</p><p><span style="color: #ff3366;">Ok.  but what does it matter if i was T8 watching T8s grief T2s, vs a T2 watching T8s grief T2.  Im sure its not a common thing for T8s to witness, most of them arent in T2 zones. </span></p><p>Let me ask you though, why do you lock at tier 2?  Why not say tier 3 or tier 4?  I think I have a pretty good idea.</p><p>1/ things cost cheaper to twink.</p><p><span style="color: #ff3333;">No.  T2 is really expensive.  For the top gear anyway.  I admit i havent looked what anything over lvl 40 costs.  My highest toon is 20.   T3+ is really cheap compared to T2 due to demand. </span></p><p>2/ easy to get to tier 2.. a couple hours tops, if you are not new to the game.</p><p><span style="color: #ff3333;">Yup.  I dont wanna grind thru the empty tiers.  I want to pvp, and T2 is where it at.  (Im sure its at T8 too,  but its not worth my time to get there)</span></p><p>3/ the game is rather simple, not as many CA's and buffs to worry about.</p><p><span style="color: #ff3333;">Actully, i really miss the complexity of higher tiers.  I played PVE to 60, then quit long ago.  It was great, but now I want pvp without the grind.</span></p><p>4/ the vast amount of people in that tier.</p><p><span style="color: #ff3333;">You bet!  and we are here for a reason.  we share the desire for pvp without the grind.  we dont want to get all spread out in hte middle tiers.</span></p><p>(( these are just a few reasons, I know there are more reasons, and more complicated reasons.. this is just the basic ones or the most obvious ))</p><p>I am guessing that number 4 is probably the biggest reason.  Have you ever wondered why tier 2 has soo many more people than say the other tiers?  </p><p>For one, it is a bit more difficult and time consuming to level up.  Although, it is still rather easy, but that is beside the point.  <span style="color: #33cc33;">The biggest reason tier 2 has the largest population is mainly because of the fresh blood that </span><b><i><span style="color: #33cc33;">STILL PLAY THE GAME.</span>  </i></b>They haven't given up yet, so you still have new people trying to play this game.  I don't have any numbers to back me up, but I would love to see what kind of retention rate SoE has on their pvp for new accounts in the last 6 months.  Of course, I mean true new accounts, not someone opening a second account.</p><p><span style="color: #ff3333;"> This is where I will disagree with you.  The vast majority of T2 are not brand new players.   I lack the numbers to prove it also and would love to hear what SOE has to say on this subject.</span></p><p> <span style="color: #33cc33;"> I just want the new guy who just bought the game a month ago to be able to get there in say 6-9 months so I can kill him/her. </span> They may actually want to get to tier 8 and see the whole game.  If they get too frustrated and quit the game 45 days later b/c they can't get anything done in the lower tiers, they then just assume the rest of the game will be the same way till they get to 80 and then they say screw this I am going to play something else.</p><p><span style="color: #ff3333;"> Why do u want to kill the newbie and not me (the dreaded twink)??  Anyway, I am all for helping newbies learn the game and lvl up if they want to.  SOE should put something in the game that helps them directly, not something that hurts everyone else.</span></p><p>When that happens, the game will become stagnat.</p><p><span style="color: #ff6633;">The game already is stagnant in the middle tiers because of the grind and low pvp populations.  People are enjoying the game at both ends of the lvl range.  My guess is because thats where the grind doesn't exist.</span></p></blockquote>

seahawk
12-11-2007, 05:04 PM
<cite>Snosael wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>seahawk91 wrote:</cite> <blockquote><p>I am guessing that number 4 is probably the biggest reason.  Have you ever wondered why tier 2 has soo many more people than say the other tiers?  </p><p>For one, it is a bit more difficult and time consuming to level up.  Although, it is still rather easy, but that is beside the point.  <span style="color: #33cc33;">The biggest reason tier 2 has the largest population is mainly because of the fresh blood that </span><b><i><span style="color: #33cc33;">STILL PLAY THE GAME.</span>  </i></b>They haven't given up yet, so you still have new people trying to play this game.  I don't have any numbers to back me up, but I would love to see what kind of retention rate SoE has on their pvp for new accounts in the last 6 months.  Of course, I mean true new accounts, not someone opening a second account.</p><p><span style="color: #ff3333;"> This is where I will disagree with you.  The vast majority of T2 are not brand new players.   I lack the numbers to prove it also and would love to hear what SOE has to say on this subject.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ffff00;">True enough, most of tier 2 are not new players, but 100 percent of the new people are in tier 1 and 2.  You simply can't start in tier 8, unless you ebay an account.  And that is my point.  If they don't ejoy the game at the basics of the tiers, very few will actually matriculate to the higher tiers.  I really would like to know what Sony's retention rate on "true" new accounts are in the last 6 months.</span></p><p> <span style="color: #33cc33;"> I just want the new guy who just bought the game a month ago to be able to get there in say 6-9 months so I can kill him/her. </span> They may actually want to get to tier 8 and see the whole game.  If they get too frustrated and quit the game 45 days later b/c they can't get anything done in the lower tiers, they then just assume the rest of the game will be the same way till they get to 80 and then they say screw this I am going to play something else.</p><p><span style="color: #ff3333;"> Why do u want to kill the newbie and not me (the dreaded twink)??  Anyway, I am all for helping newbies learn the game and lvl up if they want to.  SOE should put something in the game that helps them directly, not something that hurts everyone else.</span></p><span style="color: #000099;"><span style="color: #ffff00;">I made that statement in half jest.. hehe.  If I can fight raid geared toons, I can surely fight a twink..hehe.  TBH, gear is not as big a discrepency in the higher tiers then it is in the lower tiers.  But, that is another discussion for another day.  My bigger point, I would like new people to have an enjoyable early learning experience so IF they decide to level all the way up, I will have the oppurtunity to kill them.  AS it stands now, it takes a special person to endure what is currently the state of tier 2 pvp.</span> </span></blockquote></blockquote><span style="color: #ffff00;">One side note, I realize that not all tier 2 pvp is full of twinks and people just preying on newbs.  I also realize that there are some tools in tier 8, that make life hard on lowbies when they can.  Each tier has it's tools.  But if we can agree that the heaviest tier for pvp is tier 2, then tier 2 people will have a higher amount of tools just because they have the higher numbers.  That larger percentage of gankers is what gave tier 2 a bad rap.</span>

Roald
12-11-2007, 05:15 PM
<cite>tequiero wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>   i dont know what you smoking  beacuse a lvl 30 can go to antonica and kill a lvl 14 exile and scr ew learn to play  yeah if that lvl 14 comes to a open zone thats diffrent</p></blockquote><p>yeas like ur wrong a nd an exle can be killt by any1 regardlez of ur lvls range.</p><p>I've tried to put it into words you might understand.</p>

Bozidar
12-11-2007, 06:37 PM
<cite>seahawk91 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>someone level 75 that kills a t2 exile, or t3, t4, t5, t6 for that matter gets nothing but faction from them.  period.  If you are tier 2, and kill a tier 2 exile, then yes you get a token.</p></blockquote><p>I love how people claim that "T8 players have been through T2, can you say vise versa?", and then we see evidence that most people level through T2 so fast that they just don't understand the pvp there.</p><p>seahawk.. there is no such thing as a T2 token.</p>

seahawk
12-11-2007, 06:45 PM
<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>seahawk91 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>someone level 75 that kills a t2 exile, or t3, t4, t5, t6 for that matter gets nothing but faction from them.  period.  If you are tier 2, and kill a tier 2 exile, then yes you get a token.</p></blockquote><p>I love how people claim that "T8 players have been through T2, can you say vise versa?", and then we see evidence that most people level through T2 so fast that they just don't understand the pvp there.</p><p>seahawk.. there is no such thing as a T2 token.</p></blockquote><p>LOL.. you got me there.  Don't know what I was thinking.  To your point, you are right.. I have 3 toons I play.. a 71,67 and 77 and I did race through tier 2,3,4,5 and 6 lol!  Except my 71, he was max faction by level 40 with no locking, but that was when the servers first came out, so no one was really twinking then.</p><p>Fair enough Bozidar, you got me. hehe.</p><p>FWIW the reason I did race was because once I got a taste of end game pvp, I fell in love with it.  White con v. white con.  I tried the lock bit once, and didn't really care for it.  I see the lure to it, it is rather easy to get twinked out, but if I am being honest it wasn't much of a challenge.  /shrug</p>

Morninglord21
12-11-2007, 09:45 PM
I agree with this. Since there is a level cap on aa anyway it means nothing. However it should be limited aa, much much less than you get from quests, named, exploring, finding items etc. I would say a 0.1 to 0.25 aa experience for every 1 adventure experience. This way people trying to get aa capped off just pvp will quickly outlevel their cap, gear and spells well before getting anywhere near that cap. So the xp hit will still be detrimental to griefers, but the little bit of aa will be useful for those of us who are just fighting people they run into while doing content to get more aa and level up.

Bozidar
12-20-2007, 11:21 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well, fix us up with some pvp quests that give pretty nice amounts of aa? Repeatable ones at that.</blockquote>AWESOME Idea <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Right up my alley..

Zacarus
12-20-2007, 07:38 PM
<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well, fix us up with some pvp quests that give pretty nice amounts of aa? Repeatable ones at that.</blockquote>AWESOME Idea <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" />  Right up my alley.. </blockquote>Come on SoE give us some blood money and AA's for killin' frpers!  Put the fun back in it!